Season 5 is here and as we usher in the fifth season of Writing on my Mind, Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu and Miroslava Chávez-García join us to shed light on the unique challenges faced by first-generation BIPOC students navigating the graduate school application process. Their collaborative effort, "Is Grad School for Me? Navigating the Application Process for First Gen BIPOC Students," serves as a powerful resource guide for those navigating the murky waters of academia. Listen to learn more about the layers of mentorship's impact on the graduate school journey, the authors' personal academic challenges, and their real-life inspiration and actionable guidance.
About the Guests
Dra. Yvette Martínez-Vu is a first-generation chronically ill and neurodivergent Chicana academic coach, author, and speaker. She is the producer and host of the top-rated Grad School Femtoring Podcast and founder of Grad School Femtoring, LLC where she empowers first-generation BIPOCs as they navigate higher education. Dra. Yvette is the co-author of the book, Is Grad School For Me?: Navigating the Application Process for First-Gen BIPOC Students with the University of California Press and co-editor of the bestselling Chicana M(other)work Anthology with the University of Arizona Press.
Miroslava Chávez-García is Professor of History at UCSB and holds affiliations in the Chicana/o Studies, Feminist Studies, and Latin American and Iberian Studies. She is currently the Faculty Director of the UCSB McNair Scholars Program. Author of Negotiating Conquest: Gender and Power in California, 1770s to 1880s (University of Arizona Press, 2004) and States of Delinquency: Race and Science in the Making of California’s Juvenile Justice System (University of California Press, 2012), her most recent book, Migrant Longing: Letter Writing across the U.S.-Mexico Borderlands (University of North Carolina Press, 2018), is a history of transnational migration, gender, courtship, and identity as told through more than 300 personal letters exchanged among family members and friends across the U.S.-Mexico borderlands. In 2020, Migrant Longing was named a 2019 Choice Outstanding Academic Title and in 2019 it received the Barbara “Penny” Kanner Award from Western Association of Women’s Historians (WAWH). In 2017, “Migrant Longing, Courtship, and Gendered Identity in the U.S.-Mexico Borderlands,” published by the Western History Quarterly in Summer 2016, received the Judith Lee Ridge from the WAWH. In the same year, that essay was also awarded the Bolton-Cutter Award from the Western History Association for the best article on Spanish Borderlands history.
About the Writing on My Mind Podcast
Dr. Emmanuela Stanislaus, a certified career services provider, author and researcher, discusses the ups and downs of pursuing a graduate degree. Tune in as she shares personal stories and revealing conversations with other women of color who share their graduate school journey and provide inspiration for graduate students to level up.
Follow Dr. Emmanuela Stanislaus on Instagram and Twitter. Connect with Dr. Emmanuela Stanislaus on LinkedIn. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Writing on my Mind podcast.
I'm your host, dr EmanuelaStanislaus.
Author, career strategist,scholar and diversity consultant
.
I'm on a mission to createcommunity for women of color
graduate students to completetheir graduate degrees with
confidence.
On this podcast, we discuss allthings related to the graduate
(00:21):
school journey, including theups and downs of pursuing a
graduate degree.
I also share personal storiesand bring some friends along for
revealing conversations abouttheir graduate school journey
and provide inspiration forothers to level up as grad
students.
Hello and welcome back to theWriting on my Mind podcast.
(00:44):
This is Dr Emanuela and this isseason five.
This is the first episode ofseason five.
I am so excited to be back.
I am here with a new episodeand I cannot wait for you all to
hear this conversation that Ihad with Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu,
(01:06):
as well as MarislavaChavez-Garcia.
I am starting this conversationa little differently.
Usually, I do the intros andthen the guests are right there
and we jump right into it, butwe're doing things a little
differently today.
I am going to start off bysharing their bios and then I
will go right into ourconversation.
(01:27):
Both of these guests are theauthors of the upcoming book.
Is Grad School for MeNavigating the Application
Process for First Gen BIPOCstudents, and they're here to
talk about their journeysnavigating graduate school and
how they came to write this booktogether and what they're also
(01:52):
hoping that folks take from thecontents of the book.
So I really enjoyed having thisconversation with them and I
know that you all will walk awaywith some great insights and be
inspired to share this episodewith other folks who are
considering going to graduateschool.
Be inspired to pick up a copyof their book for either
(02:15):
yourself or to give to someoneelse, and again, I can't wait
for you all to hear it.
So let me start by sharingtheir bios.
Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu is not astranger to the Writing on my
Mind podcast.
She was here during seasonthree, so definitely check out
(02:35):
her episode.
I'll also put that in the shownotes for you all to check out
easily.
But Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu is afirst-generation critically ill
and neurodivergent Chicanaacademic coach, author and
speaker.
She is the producer and host ofthe top-rated grad school Femme
(02:56):
Touring podcast and founder ofGrad School Femme Touring LLC,
where she empowersfirst-generation BIPOCs as they
navigate higher education.
Dr Yvette is the co-author ofthe book that I mentioned
earlier is Grad School for Me,navigating the Application
Process for First-Gen BIPOCStudents with the University of
(03:20):
California Press and co-editorof the best-selling Chicana
Mother Work anthology with theUniversity of Arizona Press.
And then we also have MiroslavaChavez-Garcia, who is a
professor of history at USCB andholds affiliations in the
(03:40):
Chicana Chicano Studies, in theChicana Chicano Studies,
feminist Studies and LatinAmerican and Iberian Studies.
She is currently the facultydirector of the UCSB McNair
Scholars Program.
She has published threeacademic books and numerous
articles focused on the Latinxhistory, immigration and US
(04:07):
border and race and juvenilejustice.
As a first-generation immigrantChicana with farm worker and
working class roots, miroslavadevotes her professional life to
femtoring and mentoringfirst-generation BIPOC students,
staff and junior colleagues.
And now I will go ahead andleave you with our juicy and
inspiring conversation.
(04:27):
Again, feel free to share thiswith others.
I think you all are going to besuper inspired by these
first-gen experiences navigatingthe graduate school process and
with that I'll see you on theother side, all right, so
(04:52):
welcome to the show, yvette andMilos.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, happy to be here, looking forward to it.
Yeah, I am beyond excited tohave the both of you on here.
I have known Yvette for acouple of years now.
I've been on her podcast.
I've had her on my podcast aswell.
She told me about you, amitos,a couple of years ago, whenever
you all got the approval forthis book, and I had been super
(05:21):
excited to see the journey ofthis book coming to fruition and
couldn't wait to have you onthe show and just super excited
to have you and know that youall will be sharing some
valuable information that theaudience will definitely want to
lean into and probably go aheadand purchase a book, right.
(05:42):
And so let's jump right intothis whole conversation and
start with the big question forme like what inspired the both
of you all to collaborate andwrite this joint book?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I'm happy to pitch in and get started.
This is Yvette speaking.
One of the things that I say alot when talking about the idea
for the book is that I feel likeI have had the idea for this
book for a long time, like Iwish that this book was around.
When I was an undergraduate Iwas looking for that book.
I couldn't find it and Ithought to myself why hasn't
(06:18):
anybody written it?
I still find it very, veryshocking and surprising that a
book like this isn't out there.
But it was always just a dreamand it didn't become reality
until I met Milos when I wasworking at the UC Santa Barbara
McNair Scholars Program.
At the time I was the associatedirector.
She had come in to fill in therole of faculty director, so she
(06:42):
became my supervisor and itfelt like being around a kindred
spirit.
The moment we met we shared ourbackstories.
I got chills just how manythings we had in common and I
had I'm not kidding that when Isay this.
I had not met up to that pointsomeone who had been just
(07:03):
embodying what it means to be amentor and a femtor up to that
point.
I have had other mentors in myundergraduate, graduate school
and even professional experience.
But sometimes there weretensions there and I'll talk a
little bit more about that whenwe talk about our experiences
with mentorship.
But I really felt supported andI felt seen and heard and so
(07:24):
when I was departing thatposition to leave to start my
business, you would think we'dstop talking because she's my
supervisor and I'm like please,and instead I don't even
remember Miros you fill this inbecause this is where my memory
just kind of fails me but Iremember there was a
conversation at some point whereyou told me if I had ever
(07:45):
thought about writing a book,and I was just like I thought
you'd never ask because I don'tknow that it would have happened
if it hadn't been for yoursupport, and I'm completely
honest about that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, no, that's a great.
First of all, I just want tosay what an honor it is to be on
your podcast, to be in thecompany of so many amazing
guests that you've had across.
I have not listened to everysingle podcast, but I've
listened to some really amazingones, so it's wonderful to be
here.
I saw doing the book projectwith Yvette as an opportunity
not only to communicate thisinformation which I thought was
(08:17):
really important in terms of thework around mentorship and all
these different aspects butreally it was working with
Yvette.
Now we're going to get personalhere and what drove us
Certainly it was everything.
Being at McNair was just part ofmy larger mission, of the work
that I do and that we do.
And so, thinking about the bookproject, I had listened to
Yvette's podcast, read throughsome of her transcripts and when
(08:38):
we were talking, yeah, she wasabout to exit or had just left
and I said have you thoughtabout doing the book?
And she said I thought younever asked.
And so it just seemed likeperfect, like these two pieces
of a puzzle just snappingtogether or however you want to
sort of say that.
And yeah, and I just thoughtlike how great it would be to
work with Yvette, somebody who'sso in the know and so up to
date with all these new toolsand tips and tricks and things
(08:59):
for graduate school.
When I joined McNair I just shehad it all down.
I just was like whoa, I'm, youknow, not getting old, but I'm
having it's hard to keep up withall the new stuff.
And so she had such arepertoire and depth and breadth
of knowledge of all the thingsthat worked for students, and
students really resonated withher and I thought this would be
a great opportunity to do thiskind of work.
(09:20):
Actually, a faculty, somefaculty, have written academic
books but they don't reach thekind of audiences that I've
always wanted to reach, and thisis exactly what I've been
wanting to do.
This is why I came to graduateschool.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, I, first of all , I wanted to say I'm inspired
by the both of you and yourrelationship and, you're right,
I've gotten that same kind ofsimilar experience just through
connecting with Yvette.
That you're like, I just wantto work with her, I want to
collaborate, and so I get itthat her energy is just so
(09:52):
positive and, like you said,she's knowledgeable and knows a
lot and she's just super helpfuland genuine as well.
So I get that for sure.
And then the other piece, too,that I think was super
interesting as well, because Idid get a copy of the
introduction.
Can't wait to get the full book,but you're right, it is an
(10:14):
approachable book.
You talk about it through yourexperiences.
You normalize various things,challenges that you've had in
terms of how do you even get tograd school and I know we're
going to talk a little bit aboutthat as well and so I think
that's the biggest thing forfolks that I really wanted to
share.
(10:34):
This is an approachable,practical book.
It's not super academic.
It is grounded in making thismore accessible to folks, which
I really appreciate.
So I think one of the thingsthat I'm curious about, and I
think some of the listenersmight want to know is what is
your graduate admission story?
(10:55):
What was it like for you?
And I think maybe tagging thaton, like are there things in
your graduate admission storythat you're really hoping that
folks don't make that mistake,like, hey, this is what I did or
this is how it, you know how itwent, to kind of help folks,
(11:15):
kind of understand your path andkind of how you're wanting to
help them.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, I'm happy to share a little bit more.
So my undergraduate story andgraduate admission story was
that I was at UCLA, I was anEnglish major theater minor and
at the time this was in thearound the 2008, you know, job
market crises.
I was hearing about folks whowere struggling to get jobs and
(11:41):
I thought to myself, what am Igoing to do with this degree?
Everybody I know who graduatesfrom college gets a job at a
coffee shop and moves back home.
And I thought to myself well,I'm a child of a single
immigrant mom of six.
There is no space in her homefor me.
I do not have a place to moveback to, so I have to carve a
path for myself.
(12:03):
And going to graduate schoolactually felt like a safety net
because I knew that I wasreceiving that support.
I had gotten into the MellonMays Undergraduate Research
Fellowship.
I was part of the inauguralcohort and there was a lot of
pressure because we were thefirst cohort to apply and get
into graduate school.
So I knew I was going to besupported, there was a good
(12:24):
chance I would get in and that Iwould receive funding that
could pay my bills to study whatI loved.
So for me it didn't even feellike I had any other options,
and what I wish I would haveknown in retrospect is that I
actually had a lot more optionsthan just going straight into a
PhD and I had the skillsnecessary to get a job right out
(12:47):
of undergrad, and that itwasn't the end of the world if I
took a gap year or two or more.
So that's kind of a little bitabout.
I don't want to go too into theweeds because I also want to
give space for Milos to shareher story.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, thanks.
Sometimes you kind of forgethow things happen.
In my mind, the narrative I'vespun now over many years decades
probably we could say is thatit was sort of inevitable, this
is the way it was meant to be,and so forth.
Because, especially in gradschool and academia, we're
taught like we're uselessoutside of this context, like
you have no skills, which is nottrue.
(13:21):
Our research gives us so manyskills.
But you know, definitely, thetransition from undergrad to
grad.
It was all about being a firstgen.
We didn't use a language backthen.
We didn't have that language atall, so we didn't.
What sort of like?
I would think it was ignorance.
You know this idea of being,you know being bliss, but not
really.
But I was a history major.
I was looking at my fourth andfifth year like what am I going
(13:44):
to continue to do?
How am I going to live my life?
Very similar to Yvette, where Ifelt like I could possibly go
home, but there wasn't really ahome anymore for me.
As I mentioned in the book withYvette, my parents died when I
was young.
I was 12 years old and so I wasraised by my aunt and uncle,
who were very supportive, loving, but had a very small home and
they had their two daughters andI just was like that wasn't for
(14:04):
me anymore.
I knew that wasn't a place togo for a long term.
They were very supportive, butthen so I just looked forward
and I thought like, well, I meta professor who introduced me to
research and I, in a way, Ithink I just was lucky but also
had a lot of support and Iwouldn't.
I always take.
I always think about the termluck and I don't think it's luck
, I think it's creatingopportunities, but I also
(14:25):
definitely believe in thesupport.
So what happened with me wasthat I applied only to very few
schools, like five schools.
I don't even know why I chosethem.
They were like the top schoolsof things we say don't do and I
was very fortunate that one ofthe schools was where I was at
at UCLA when I did myundergraduate degree and,
fortunately for me, a mentorthere advocated for me.
He made it possible for me toattend.
(14:46):
They asked for more materialsand he got me a one-year
fellowship and then I was ableto get more fellowship money
because of affirmative actionback when I was in school and
from that I think I was just ina bubble.
I mean, I don't know whathappened behind closed doors.
I don't know if I want to knowwhat happened at that admissions
day of accepting applicants ornot.
I'd rather not know, but Ididn't know.
(15:06):
Now that I know all thesethings that go on, I thought,
wow, how did that happen?
I'm not sure, but I'm gratefulfor it.
And now that we know so muchmore to make this process
definitely definitely moretransparent, because we had no
idea what happened behind closeddoors.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I love that and you know because of both of your
experiences of not knowing right.
Being first gen, I was firstgen as well, and also first or
second gen American, with myparents, you know, being from
another country, so I think wehave a lot of those similarities
there.
What, what advice would youshare with others who might find
(15:47):
themselves in a similarposition of not knowing what
their options are or thinkingthat a break isn't an option
Right, especially if they'rethinking about grad school or
not knowing what the careeroptions are for them when
they're getting close tograduation?
What advice would you have forsomeone in that position?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
One of the things that I wish was a requirement
for every single undergraduateacross the board at all
institutions, is for students tobe taught a course on career
development and on taking chargeof your career, because that
was the missing link, and alsoto have some sort of subsection
(16:31):
within that course related topivoting and how common it is to
pivot in your careers and thatit's becoming less and less, I
guess, normative for folks to gostraight into, you know, one
major and then continue in thatmajor into a career and then
continue that career until theyretire.
It's just, you know, things arechanging now and I felt like I
(16:56):
was placed on a path where I wasexpected to just follow the
pipeline you know, fromundergrad to graduate school,
from graduate school to thetenure track, from that to
tenure and retirement, and thatis the case for some but is
overwhelmingly not the case forall or for the majority of folks
.
That's why there's so few peopleof color, that's why we're
(17:19):
underrepresented in highereducation and in so many other
fields and professions.
So I guess when I say that Iwish that folks knew that they
had more options, I mean I wishthat people were emboldened and
empowered by knowing that you'rethe one that's responsible for
carving that path and forcurating it, for planning it.
(17:41):
You can follow what people tellyou to do, but if it doesn't
align with what you want to do,one day you're going to find
yourself in a position and arole where you realize you're
having a midlife crisis and youwant to change everything
completely.
So I think that's what it wouldbe is just to remind people
that you are in charge of yourown career, you are in charge of
(18:03):
your own life and that if yougo into college and graduate
school knowing this, you canmake more intentional and
strategic decisions and seek outthe support systems, the
mentors and femtors that youneed to get there.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I would echo everything that Yvette has said.
The only two other small thingsI would add is one is I always
tell students like we all havesimilar not all of us, but I
feel like the students that Ispeak to have similar goals in
terms of, you know, working onissues of social justice and
equity and inclusion to thatthere's not just one path or one
means to get to the ends or tothe goals.
(18:39):
Right, there's different paths,people take different routes.
There's so many differentplaces in which we are needed,
so it's not like I will onlymake a difference if I take X or
Y, z, no, there's all theseother ways that we need to, you
know, step up to our cause or toyour cause, whatever that might
be.
Another useful thing might beto do some sort of shadowing I
don't know if that's a good term, but just to see what is the
(19:00):
day-to-day basis.
What are they doing?
Sometimes we think like, oh,look what they're doing.
That's like 1% of their life.
The rest of the time they'rejust like in the library, or
they're doing monotonous work,or it's just reading and reading
and reading or whatever.
So that's really important isto do that kind of shadow work.
Important is to do that kind ofshadow work.
And it's kind of interestingtoo in hearing Yvette talk about
(19:21):
this pipeline that we're set on.
In many ways we're not set upfor that pipeline yet.
It's kind of like I think a lotof us, because we have all these
expectations I know for me itwas always my biggest one is
like I didn't want to fail, Iwant to make sure.
And I remember this one momentwhen I was an undergrad I had a
tutoring session with calculusand I liked to do math and I
remember I would mess somethingup and the tutor was like, oh,
mito, you failed.
My heart just sank.
(19:43):
I thought like oh my God, and Irealized like, wow, this I
don't want to say it's a failure, but like not wanting to let
down you know myself or Mars,like having the failure that I
think we project onto ourselves,that we think that other people
are, we put pressure ontoothers, that we think they're
thinking about us, but it'sreally us internalizing and
trying to make sure that wedon't fulfill those sort of
(20:04):
expectations of others.
And so I guess I just pushedmyself.
I thought like I have to makethis next phase because I'm here
, I have to prove myself, provemyself, prove myself, and
sometimes you do that.
Okay, you can do that, but whatyou end up like you've got
(20:24):
something.
You look around like wait aminute, where am I now?
What space am I in that is soforeign and so cold and so
unwelcoming and miserable.
What's happening?
So, yeah, I think that's agreat idea about that course.
It's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, I love all of this.
All of the things that you'resaying are singing to my career
coaching background and theheart of what I do.
And so what I'm hearing isadvocating right for yourself
and advocacy because we do havethe ability to go in the
(20:50):
direction that we want, whetherit's speaking to others, having
informational interviews,shadowing, actually using your
university career center.
Yes, like when I worked in theuniversity, I always wished that
it was a requirement and sohopefully we're getting there.
But if you are a first genstudent, sometimes if folks
(21:11):
don't tell you that it'srequired, you don't even realize
that that service is there foryou and you're paying into it
with your fees and everythinglike that.
So definitely take advantage ofthat.
And I heard, too, yvette withthe taking charge.
I don't know if that was like anote to my ebook.
So if you haven't gotten a copyof the taking charge career
(21:32):
guide for graduate students,definitely pick that up.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I was going to say you know what that was?
Totally I guess I must havethought of you and automatically
that phrase came out of mymouth.
So I was like what's the word?
Like maybe the subtext orsomething like in my head I was
like, oh, we're it, we're onEmanuela's podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
take charge, I love that it just came so naturally
to you.
I was like, oh yeah, awesome itis.
It is all about that.
It's like knowing that thingsdon't just happen.
You have to do something tomake the things that you want
occur.
A big part of that as well,right?
(22:21):
So when you're not able to dosome of the things, or maybe
you're not seeing the progressthat you're wanting to see, this
is where mentorship andfemtorship play a role, right?
And so in reading theintroduction, you also talked
about femtorship, mentorshiprelationships, playing a role in
the success that you had withgraduate school, and so I wanted
(22:41):
to see if you could share, youknow, a mentorship story, or
maybe even advice for howstudents can leverage these
mentorship and mentorshiprelationships for graduate
school admissions.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
First, I think it's important to figure out what
your mentorship style is eitheras a mentor or a mentee Like how
is it you best like to receiveadvice or insights about your
work If you're more of theperson who likes to receive the
cold, hard facts air quotesaround facts versus somebody who
likes to be just told gently,like here's, I'm being, you know
(23:14):
, like support and warmth andcomfort, and that comes first,
and then I'm more the trained inthe old school way.
Maybe that's sort of you know,like support and warmth and
comfort and that comes first,and then I'm more the trained in
the old school way.
Maybe that's sort of you know,chalk it up to my Mexican
immigrant roots.
But when I was in grad school Ihad there was a professor I
took he wasn't my advisor, well,not my main advisor, he wasn't
on my committee.
I took a class with him, atwo-quarter research seminar in
(23:34):
graduate school, and I struggledwith the writing.
At the end of the quarter Iproduced a paper that he really
helped me with.
So it was wonderful.
But at the very end he told methat he gave me the hard facts.
Or the hard fact I guess he saidto me you know, it would be a
good idea if you thought abouttaking a writing course, writing
at a community college.
It could really help you with.
(23:55):
You know all aspects of yourwriting and for me, I was kind
of stunned by that because Ithought like, wow, with my
writing that atrocious, is itthat hard?
But he was.
Nobody had ever told me that.
Nobody had ever taken me asideand said this is the problem,
this is what you need to do tofix it.
And I think that you knowthat's the way I've always
operated and that's where I kindof operate with my students.
(24:16):
But I have to be careful.
With every student it'sdifferent.
Some people could take it Idon't say take it, but people
could take the advice or not.
I just feel like it's better toget it from somebody who has
well intention versus getting onthe other side where they're
going to be just berating youfor that case.
And so luckily, in terms of mywriting, I had a different
(24:36):
advisor because my first oneleft.
The second one was an editor ofa journal.
He had been an editor for 30years and so he taught me how to
write.
It took me a little bit longerto finish my dissertation, but
he's the one who taught me howto write and over time, I just
worked a lot, a lot on mywriting and I still work a lot
on the writing.
So I think that that is reallyimportant.
And I would also say, in termsof the mentorship, it's
(24:57):
important as well to learn howto take that advice right, how
to process it and, especially ifit's coming from the right
person, you know, is itmentorship?
How is it being provided?
So that's the one caveat.
I have many other things Icould talk about that, but I
think that for me, when I workwith my students, I like to just
tell them this and you need tofix this, this and this, and
then just get to it instead ofyou know, I did have one student
(25:19):
, though, who is now a professor, and she said to me at one
point, when we were reviewingher stuff back and forth she
said Milos, is there anything?
can you say anything positiveabout this?
Oh, I said, yes, it's wonderful.
I just want you to, like youknow, focus on this and make it,
you know.
But now she's at an excellentinstitution R1, has.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I agree with what Miros has shared, but I do want
to add the importance of peermentorship as well, because I
was that undergraduate andgraduate student who was more
introverted, who struggled toreach out, who didn't know the
hidden curriculum, who didn'teven know what the with faculty
and those that I did havementorship relationships with.
(26:06):
Unfortunately, some of them cutties with me when they found out
that I was going off the tenuretrack.
That is the harsh reality ofwhen you make decisions and you
pivot, not everybody's going tocome along for the ride, and so,
for me, my ride or dies havebeen my peer support, peer
mentorship network.
(26:27):
That includes folks that I metthrough the McNair program, and
so peer mentorship is just asimportant as mentorship on both
ends and finding folks who arewilling to support you, no
(26:51):
matter what your plans are, evenif they are a little bit
different from what they werehoping from you, and also
finding folks who are willing tobe part of a reciprocal
relationship and can see you asa whole person, and also to have
multiple mentors, because noone person can provide
everything for you.
Some people you know are reallygood at one part of what you
(27:13):
need for your personal andprofessional development.
Other people might be able tofill other gaps.
So don't expect to have justone or two or a couple of
mentors who do it all.
Instead, branch out and, youknow, see what you can do to
receive support and to offerthem support as well.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
I'll add one more thing.
One thing I realized, now thatyou know been in academia for
several decades, is that yourmentors also change and shift
over time, and that's okay.
Like at some point I thought,when I stopped communicating as
much with one particular mentor,I thought, oh no, I'm going to
lose them, I won't see them.
It's like, oh no, now I need amentor to help me, because now
I'm an associate professor.
Right Before, when I wasassistant, I needed somebody for
(27:53):
X, y and Z.
Now I'm an associate professor,I needed to go to somebody else
.
And I think as we climb up theranks, then it becomes trickier
and trickier to find people thatwe can go to.
And that's what I'm thinkingabout working on a project
myself.
What do we do when we get atthis level?
Who do we turn to for support?
We know who those people are upthere usually white folks but
(28:16):
we want people who we can feelcomfortable talking to.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So think about mentors also can come in and out
of your life and that's okay,just depending where you're at.
Great advice.
I love that.
I love everything that you allshared and love the concept of
you know your personal board ofdirectors and just having a
bunch of folks that you can callon for various things.
With that like.
One of the things I'm thinkingabout is like advice that you
all have given your experiencesright and your knowledge in this
(28:47):
book around what historicallyexcluded students should really
consider if they're consideringthe option to go to graduate
school.
Any advice that you have tohelp them in that area.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I'm going to say that it starts with the initial
conversation of finding outwhether grad school is even a
necessary next step for them intheir career and life.
Because I have found time andtime again that sometimes
students expect to go tograduate school and like that's
the next step for everybody, butit's.
(29:23):
It's not necessarily the case,and I have also witnessed so
many people of color women ofcolor black and brown women who
have gone at the top of theranks.
They tend to be the ones thatgo and get the highest degrees
but then have the lowestsalaries.
And there's opportunity costsinvolved.
There's the opportunity cost ofthe sacrifice, the time, energy
(29:47):
, money, investment that goesinto going to graduate school.
And so if folks don't do thatinitial self-reflective work of
figuring out where do I want togo and for that career path do I
need an advanced degree, will Iget stuck at a point where I
need an advanced degree?
Will I get stuck at a pointwhere I need an advanced degree
to get there?
Then, yes, definitely there'sother things to consider, you
(30:08):
know, like finding the rightpeople, location, et cetera,
like there's.
I'm happy to have Miros talkabout that part of it, but I
definitely want to just stressthe importance of having that
tough conversation around.
Is grad school even a necessarynext step for you?
It may not be necessary, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I think she answered that question really well.
The other points are sort of,as you said, sort of standard
like in terms of thinking abouta graduate program.
You know the location.
Are you okay excuse me goingout of state?
Are you willing to deal withthe new culture?
Sometimes these other stateshave different kinds of cultures
, laws, even right Some states,especially right now.
Even the language sometimes isdifficult to the references that
(30:49):
people make too.
So, if you're going to be in anew environment, are you okay,
willing to attend a PWI?
Or do you want an NCSI or anAPZ institution, these Hispanic
serving institutions and theseand so forth?
Funding is important.
What is the climate at thecampus in terms of racial,
ethnic and gender climate?
And that is what is theenvironment like there for you.
(31:12):
Are there supportive facultyand faculty of color?
If you don't have a facultyperson who's willing to vouch
for you, have your back.
It's not going to happen.
It's just not going to work,because even the fact that most
departments won't take a studentif there's no one in the
department willing to work withthem.
So you have to make thatpersonal connection, or at least
professional connection throughemail or somehow, that that
person is willing to work withyou.
(31:33):
So that's what I would say, butdefinitely thinking about
whether it's even for you.
I've seen so many people womenof color in particular, as
Yvette says doing all thesethings and in the end they
decide to do the, you know,become the personal, this, or
have their own businesses,because the institutional racism
is this.
So you would, you know, youexhaust yourself from that.
(31:54):
It's just belittling at everymoment.
So we don't need that, we don'thave time for that.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Right, we have no time for that, for sure, and you
know that's a whole otherpodcast episode, right.
But I think it's through thosepeer mentorships, the
relationships that you have withothers, talking through other
people who've gone through thatjourney, where you can kind of
prepare yourself for thatjourney yourself and see what it
(32:23):
is that you want to do, what itis that you are not willing to
do, the environment that youwant to be in, and then you know
make your decision based off ofthat.
So, with that, what makes anapplicant competitive when they
are applying for graduate school?
What should they be thinkingabout?
What should they be doing?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
All of the things, I think the one of the things that
most institutions will look foris some kind of research
profile, that is, you've carriedout research in your area of
interest and, if so, what doesthat look like?
And also like what is thecontribution of your research?
It's hard, these are reallyhard questions to be able to
answer, especially if you'recoming straight out of
undergraduate or you've taken agap or you're what we call a
(33:06):
non-traditional student, whereyou've maybe taken 10 years away
and coming back.
So there's other ways that youcan talk about research, the
strengths that you have, thethings that you've been based on
your experiences, that you canbring to the table.
You know we talk about this inthe book, about how, like, maybe
you haven't been in a labsetting, you know, like in
traditional academic lab, butmaybe in your place of work,
(33:26):
what kinds of work you've donethere and what kinds of
research-based or what lookslike research.
So talking about that is reallyimportant.
And are you able to communicatethose research experiences as
well.
So that's really importantcommunication right, having the
ability to write well helps.
And also who you've worked with.
I hate to say that, but who'strained you essentially?
(33:50):
Who have been your mentors?
What's that training look like?
Lastly, I'll just say that,even though it's not stated,
this is part of the hiddencurriculum.
It's your trajectory.
In some cases it's yourpedigree.
Sometimes it's more about yourhistory, your personal history,
the things that you've overcome,despite you know the fact that
there was all these challengesthat you faced, and how you've
been able to sort of rise abovethat with support and so forth.
(34:11):
So that's, I think, part ofwhat people.
I think the number one thingwould be the research and how
you frame that.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I have a follow-up too, before Yvette shares her
piece.
Go ahead In terms of research.
Like I do get that sometimeswhen working with undergrads and
part of the questions that theyhave is like how do I even get
this research experience,especially if they're thinking
about grad school, like, say,their senior year?
What can they do to get thatexperience?
(34:40):
Any advice from the facultypoint of view in terms of how
some of these students can findthose opportunities?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I would say that sometimes on the campus that
they're at, they can find someopportunities.
Sometimes students will takeeither they'll stay in school
for another year but sometimeseconomically that's not feasible
or they will graduate and stickaround and work in a lab, you
know, hopefully making enough.
That's the issue, like thehousing, especially in
California, housing costs.
This is not an easy decision tomake, but if they can make the
(35:11):
sacrifice to participate, oreven in a school setting
education, somewhere related towhat they want to do, so that
they can have a strong letter ofsupport or some sort of support
from that place where they work.
Of course, when you apply tograduate school, they really
look for PhDs and people in thetenure track to write letters
for you.
So I think those personalconnections that you have with
faculty or developing those atsome point, just knocking on
(35:34):
every door that you can, that'swhat we see.
There's programs on campusesbut sometimes by the time you're
a senior they're like it's alittle bit late for that.
But I would say knocking ondoors, going to the career
center, trying to find ways.
There's different ways you cando research, not just the one,
but I think that it does becomea little bit scrabble, but it
can happen.
It just takes a little moretime.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I was just going to say.
A lot of what Milos just sharedhas to do with applying for PhD
programs in particular, and soI want to highlight what it's
like to apply to professionalprograms and master's programs
as well, because there is astrong research emphasis for PhD
programs.
There's no denying that.
But if you are applying to morepractical or applied master's
(36:12):
programs, they're going to valuethe work experience or the
professional experience just asmuch, they're going to value the
professional letter andreference just as much.
Much.
They're going to value theprofessional letter and
reference just as much.
And you know, if you'reapplying to certain fields like,
let's say you know this is likebeyond what we wrote in the
book, we primarily focus onmaster's and PhD programs.
(36:33):
But if you're applying to MDsand JDs and those fields,
they're going to want that kindof clinical experience or legal
experience.
They're going to wantinternships and externships.
And so for the folks who maybeare seniors and know, actually I
think I want to one day get aPhD, I would say don't discount
(36:54):
the fact that you can get into amaster's program or a
post-baccalaureate program withno research experience.
That is still possible.
Of course, it's easier to getinto those programs with
research experience.
But it's not impossible, it'snot.
Something that we mentioned inthe book is that there are a lot
(37:21):
of admissions committees noteverybody, but a lot of them are
looking at them holistically.
So they're looking at yourentire package so you can have
all the best research experiencein the world.
But if your essays are notstrong, if your letters of
recommendation are not strong,you're not going to get in.
If you can't make a case foryourself, you're not going to
get in.
You're not going to get in.
(37:41):
If you can't make a case foryourself, you're not going to
get in.
Whereas if you have a lower GPAand you're in a field where
there's no minimum GPArequirement and you have very
strong letters, if you polishedand tailored and have strong
essays, you have a pretty goodchance.
So I just kind of want to kindof share some other options and
some other perspectives.
Because, yes, I know like weall want to have, especially if
(38:04):
you're going the PhD route thatresearch experience, the letters
from all the top scholars.
But there is no perfectapplication, just like there is
no perfect person, just like Iwant to debunk this.
You know the notion that wehave to be perfect people,
because perfectionism is a tenetof white supremacy.
You don't have to be perfect toget in.
(38:24):
You do have to be intentionaland strategic to get in.
So keep these things in mind,depending on whether you're
going the master's route or thePhD route.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Totally, and I would also say that working with a
coach can definitely help you ifyou feel like you're not strong
in some areas, or whatever itis.
I think it's all about how youpresent yourself, how you
explain things right, so like,for example, I'm even thinking
about maybe you didn't doresearch, but you participated
in research research that tookplace on campus as a participant
(38:57):
.
You can spin that to where youcan talk about how your approach
to research would be a littledifferent because of your
experience as a participant,right, and so like.
There's ways that you can gothrough that process and tell
the story that you want to helpposition yourself as a strong
candidate.
So thank you both for sharingthat information for us.
(39:21):
Thank you both for sharing thatinformation for us, and I think
you know.
Now I just want to talk aboutwhat you hope to be the biggest
takeaway from the book that youhave coming out.
Can you share a little bitabout what you're hoping folks
take away from all of your hardwork, blood, sweat and tears?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
This is Milos.
I want readers to realize thatthis is really an act of love on
our part.
I was thinking about this for alittle bit, that here we're
saying here are the tools thatyou need to be successful, and
we're doing this because we careabout you, we care about our
community, we want to empowerour communities.
Yeah, so I think that for me,ultimately, that sums it up our
(40:02):
communities, yeah, so I thinkthat for me, ultimately, that
sums it up.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I want to echo what Milos said.
It really is an act of love.
It is, you know, I think thatyou know at the core of like
what Milos and I have in common.
I'm just projecting, so I mightbe wrong, milos, but I'm
assuming that at the core, like,one of your values is social
justice, and I've used socialjustice work as at the core is
about loving, loving people andminimizing harm, and that's what
(40:29):
I think that this book is doing.
But, you know, from theperspective of helping more
first-gen BIPOCs get intograduate school and learn about
the process, if that's the routethat they want to take, and
giving them permission to makethat decision for themselves.
So, again, I just want to echo,you know, what Miro said and
also what I mentioned earlierabout making sure that folks are
(40:51):
empowered and emboldened andgalvanized to make decisions for
themselves and to know thatthey have many, many options and
that there is no right or wrongway and that they have their
own trajectory.
Even if it doesn't happen thisyear or next year, they get to
decide this.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah, one last thing too, and the dedication is about
providing this to those whohaven't had many opportunities
in their lives, but also thisidea of paying it forward, just
thanking my mentors, just beingmindful that this is the work
that they helped me to do and Ifeel like I can't fail them,
going back to the failure that Ineed to put this out there.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Awesome.
So our time has come to an endand before I have you all share
how folks can connect with youand follow you, folks can
connect with you and follow you.
I did want to share with folksthat the book that we keep
referencing, that I talked aboutat the beginning, is called Is
Grad School for Me, navigatingthe Application Process for
(41:52):
First-Gen BIPOC Students.
It is available for pre-salenow and it does come out and is
out for a general purchase onApril 16.
So definitely make sure thatyou go out and get yourself a
copy.
Support these ladies that aredoing amazing work and are doing
(42:14):
this work to really diversifythe folks who are going and
pursuing graduate degrees.
So super excited about that andI will definitely put a link to
get the book in the show notes,but we'll turn it over to you
all to kind of share how folkscan connect with you and follow
you.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I'm happy to start.
You can reach me.
I have, I guess, three mainways.
If you're on social media, youcan find me on Instagram.
My handle isgradschoolfemtouring so like
mentoring, but with F-E-M and onLinkedIn I'm also available and
you can find me with my name,yvette Martinez Vu.
(42:54):
Place to find me is through mywebsite, gradschoolfemtouringcom
.
You can pre-order or order yourcopy of the book on there as
well.
The link for that isgradschoolfemtouringcom slash
book.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
For me, the easiest way to contact me is through my
email.
I'm not on social media but myemail it's chavezgarcia, all one
word at ucsbedu or the UC SantaBarbara History Department
website and they're underfaculty people.
I update that page.
And academiaedu.
I update that periodically.
I need to do that soon.
(43:31):
But yeah, those are the mainways to reach me.
I respond to email.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
I love it.
Thank you all so much and I'lladd all of those links into the
show notes for folks to connectwith you, purchase their copy of
the book, share it with otherswidely, and that's it for today.
Thank you so much for thisgreat conversation.
You shared some amazing gemsthat folks can walk away with
(43:58):
and really action on in terms oftheir graduate applications,
graduate school, navigating,undergrad in a way that helps
set them up for success in gradschool and all of the things.
So thank you both for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Thank you so much for amplifying our voices.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
That's a wrap.
Thank you so much for listeningto another episode of the
Writing on my Mind podcast.
If you'd like to support thepodcast, make sure you follow
the show wherever you listen topodcasts, rate the show and
leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
You can also donate to the showby clicking the support link in
the show notes.
Your donations help me tocontinue to put out new episodes
(44:43):
to help support you and otherwomen of color graduate students
.
I'd also love it if you canspread the word to other women
of color graduate students togrow our community.
Also, be sure to follow me onInstagram, tiktok and Twitter at
Dr Emanuela.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Writing on my Mind podcast.
I'm your host, dr EmanuelaStanislaus.
Author, career strategist,scholar and diversity consultant
.
I'm on a mission to createcommunity for women of color
graduate students to completetheir graduate degrees with
confidence.
On this podcast, we discuss allthings related to the graduate
(00:21):
school journey, including theups and downs of pursuing a
graduate degree.
I also share personal storiesand bring some friends along for
revealing conversations abouttheir graduate school journey
and provide inspiration forothers to level up as grad
students.
Hello and welcome back to theWriting on my Mind podcast.
(00:44):
This is Dr Emanuela and this isseason five.
This is the first episode ofseason five.
I am so excited to be back.
I am here with a new episodeand I cannot wait for you all to
hear this conversation that Ihad with Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu,
(01:06):
as well as MarislavaChavez-Garcia.
I am starting this conversationa little differently.
Usually, I do the intros andthen the guests are right there
and we jump right into it, butwe're doing things a little
differently today.
I am going to start off bysharing their bios and then I
will go right into ourconversation.
(01:27):
Both of these guests are theauthors of the upcoming book.
Is Grad School for MeNavigating the Application
Process for First Gen BIPOCstudents, and they're here to
talk about their journeysnavigating graduate school and
how they came to write this booktogether and what they're also
(01:52):
hoping that folks take from thecontents of the book.
So I really enjoyed having thisconversation with them and I
know that you all will walk awaywith some great insights and be
inspired to share this episodewith other folks who are
considering going to graduateschool.
Be inspired to pick up a copyof their book for either
(02:15):
yourself or to give to someoneelse, and again, I can't wait
for you all to hear it.
So let me start by sharingtheir bios.
Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu is not astranger to the Writing on my
Mind podcast.
She was here during seasonthree, so definitely check out
(02:35):
her episode.
I'll also put that in the shownotes for you all to check out
easily.
But Dr Yvette Martinez-Vu is afirst-generation critically ill
and neurodivergent Chicanaacademic coach, author and
speaker.
She is the producer and host ofthe top-rated grad school Femme
(02:56):
Touring podcast and founder ofGrad School Femme Touring LLC,
where she empowersfirst-generation BIPOCs as they
navigate higher education.
Dr Yvette is the co-author ofthe book that I mentioned
earlier is Grad School for Me,navigating the Application
Process for First-Gen BIPOCStudents with the University of
(03:20):
California Press and co-editorof the best-selling Chicana
Mother Work anthology with theUniversity of Arizona Press.
And then we also have MiroslavaChavez-Garcia, who is a
professor of history at USCB andholds affiliations in the
(03:40):
Chicana Chicano Studies, in theChicana Chicano Studies,
feminist Studies and LatinAmerican and Iberian Studies.
She is currently the facultydirector of the UCSB McNair
Scholars Program.
She has published threeacademic books and numerous
articles focused on the Latinxhistory, immigration and US
(04:07):
border and race and juvenilejustice.
As a first-generation immigrantChicana with farm worker and
working class roots, miroslavadevotes her professional life to
femtoring and mentoringfirst-generation BIPOC students,
staff and junior colleagues.
And now I will go ahead andleave you with our juicy and
inspiring conversation.
(04:27):
Again, feel free to share thiswith others.
I think you all are going to besuper inspired by these
first-gen experiences navigatingthe graduate school process and
with that I'll see you on theother side, all right, so
(04:52):
welcome to the show, yvette andMilos.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, happy to be here, looking forward to it.
Yeah, I am beyond excited tohave the both of you on here.
I have known Yvette for acouple of years now.
I've been on her podcast.
I've had her on my podcast aswell.
She told me about you, amitos,a couple of years ago, whenever
you all got the approval forthis book, and I had been super
(05:21):
excited to see the journey ofthis book coming to fruition and
couldn't wait to have you onthe show and just super excited
to have you and know that youall will be sharing some
valuable information that theaudience will definitely want to
lean into and probably go aheadand purchase a book, right.
(05:42):
And so let's jump right intothis whole conversation and
start with the big question forme like what inspired the both
of you all to collaborate andwrite this joint book?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I'm happy to pitch in and get started.
This is Yvette speaking.
One of the things that I say alot when talking about the idea
for the book is that I feel likeI have had the idea for this
book for a long time, like Iwish that this book was around.
When I was an undergraduate Iwas looking for that book.
I couldn't find it and Ithought to myself why hasn't
(06:18):
anybody written it?
I still find it very, veryshocking and surprising that a
book like this isn't out there.
But it was always just a dreamand it didn't become reality
until I met Milos when I wasworking at the UC Santa Barbara
McNair Scholars Program.
At the time I was the associatedirector.
She had come in to fill in therole of faculty director, so she
(06:42):
became my supervisor and itfelt like being around a kindred
spirit.
The moment we met we shared ourbackstories.
I got chills just how manythings we had in common and I
had I'm not kidding that when Isay this.
I had not met up to that pointsomeone who had been just
(07:03):
embodying what it means to be amentor and a femtor up to that
point.
I have had other mentors in myundergraduate, graduate school
and even professional experience.
But sometimes there weretensions there and I'll talk a
little bit more about that whenwe talk about our experiences
with mentorship.
But I really felt supported andI felt seen and heard and so
(07:24):
when I was departing thatposition to leave to start my
business, you would think we'dstop talking because she's my
supervisor and I'm like please,and instead I don't even
remember Miros you fill this inbecause this is where my memory
just kind of fails me but Iremember there was a
conversation at some point whereyou told me if I had ever
(07:45):
thought about writing a book,and I was just like I thought
you'd never ask because I don'tknow that it would have happened
if it hadn't been for yoursupport, and I'm completely
honest about that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, no, that's a great.
First of all, I just want tosay what an honor it is to be on
your podcast, to be in thecompany of so many amazing
guests that you've had across.
I have not listened to everysingle podcast, but I've
listened to some really amazingones, so it's wonderful to be
here.
I saw doing the book projectwith Yvette as an opportunity
not only to communicate thisinformation which I thought was
(08:17):
really important in terms of thework around mentorship and all
these different aspects butreally it was working with
Yvette.
Now we're going to get personalhere and what drove us
Certainly it was everything.
Being at McNair was just part ofmy larger mission, of the work
that I do and that we do.
And so, thinking about the bookproject, I had listened to
Yvette's podcast, read throughsome of her transcripts and when
(08:38):
we were talking, yeah, she wasabout to exit or had just left
and I said have you thoughtabout doing the book?
And she said I thought younever asked.
And so it just seemed likeperfect, like these two pieces
of a puzzle just snappingtogether or however you want to
sort of say that.
And yeah, and I just thoughtlike how great it would be to
work with Yvette, somebody who'sso in the know and so up to
date with all these new toolsand tips and tricks and things
(08:59):
for graduate school.
When I joined McNair I just shehad it all down.
I just was like whoa, I'm, youknow, not getting old, but I'm
having it's hard to keep up withall the new stuff.
And so she had such arepertoire and depth and breadth
of knowledge of all the thingsthat worked for students, and
students really resonated withher and I thought this would be
a great opportunity to do thiskind of work.
(09:20):
Actually, a faculty, somefaculty, have written academic
books but they don't reach thekind of audiences that I've
always wanted to reach, and thisis exactly what I've been
wanting to do.
This is why I came to graduateschool.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, I, first of all , I wanted to say I'm inspired
by the both of you and yourrelationship and, you're right,
I've gotten that same kind ofsimilar experience just through
connecting with Yvette.
That you're like, I just wantto work with her, I want to
collaborate, and so I get itthat her energy is just so
(09:52):
positive and, like you said,she's knowledgeable and knows a
lot and she's just super helpfuland genuine as well.
So I get that for sure.
And then the other piece, too,that I think was super
interesting as well, because Idid get a copy of the
introduction.
Can't wait to get the full book,but you're right, it is an
(10:14):
approachable book.
You talk about it through yourexperiences.
You normalize various things,challenges that you've had in
terms of how do you even get tograd school and I know we're
going to talk a little bit aboutthat as well and so I think
that's the biggest thing forfolks that I really wanted to
share.
(10:34):
This is an approachable,practical book.
It's not super academic.
It is grounded in making thismore accessible to folks, which
I really appreciate.
So I think one of the thingsthat I'm curious about, and I
think some of the listenersmight want to know is what is
your graduate admission story?
(10:55):
What was it like for you?
And I think maybe tagging thaton, like are there things in
your graduate admission storythat you're really hoping that
folks don't make that mistake,like, hey, this is what I did or
this is how it, you know how itwent, to kind of help folks,
(11:15):
kind of understand your path andkind of how you're wanting to
help them.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, I'm happy to share a little bit more.
So my undergraduate story andgraduate admission story was
that I was at UCLA, I was anEnglish major theater minor and
at the time this was in thearound the 2008, you know, job
market crises.
I was hearing about folks whowere struggling to get jobs and
(11:41):
I thought to myself, what am Igoing to do with this degree?
Everybody I know who graduatesfrom college gets a job at a
coffee shop and moves back home.
And I thought to myself well,I'm a child of a single
immigrant mom of six.
There is no space in her homefor me.
I do not have a place to moveback to, so I have to carve a
path for myself.
(12:03):
And going to graduate schoolactually felt like a safety net
because I knew that I wasreceiving that support.
I had gotten into the MellonMays Undergraduate Research
Fellowship.
I was part of the inauguralcohort and there was a lot of
pressure because we were thefirst cohort to apply and get
into graduate school.
So I knew I was going to besupported, there was a good
(12:24):
chance I would get in and that Iwould receive funding that
could pay my bills to study whatI loved.
So for me it didn't even feellike I had any other options,
and what I wish I would haveknown in retrospect is that I
actually had a lot more optionsthan just going straight into a
PhD and I had the skillsnecessary to get a job right out
(12:47):
of undergrad, and that itwasn't the end of the world if I
took a gap year or two or more.
So that's kind of a little bitabout.
I don't want to go too into theweeds because I also want to
give space for Milos to shareher story.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, thanks.
Sometimes you kind of forgethow things happen.
In my mind, the narrative I'vespun now over many years decades
probably we could say is thatit was sort of inevitable, this
is the way it was meant to be,and so forth.
Because, especially in gradschool and academia, we're
taught like we're uselessoutside of this context, like
you have no skills, which is nottrue.
(13:21):
Our research gives us so manyskills.
But you know, definitely, thetransition from undergrad to
grad.
It was all about being a firstgen.
We didn't use a language backthen.
We didn't have that language atall, so we didn't.
What sort of like?
I would think it was ignorance.
You know this idea of being,you know being bliss, but not
really.
But I was a history major.
I was looking at my fourth andfifth year like what am I going
(13:44):
to continue to do?
How am I going to live my life?
Very similar to Yvette, where Ifelt like I could possibly go
home, but there wasn't really ahome anymore for me.
As I mentioned in the book withYvette, my parents died when I
was young.
I was 12 years old and so I wasraised by my aunt and uncle,
who were very supportive, loving, but had a very small home and
they had their two daughters andI just was like that wasn't for
(14:04):
me anymore.
I knew that wasn't a place togo for a long term.
They were very supportive, butthen so I just looked forward
and I thought like, well, I meta professor who introduced me to
research and I, in a way, Ithink I just was lucky but also
had a lot of support and Iwouldn't.
I always take.
I always think about the termluck and I don't think it's luck
, I think it's creatingopportunities, but I also
(14:25):
definitely believe in thesupport.
So what happened with me wasthat I applied only to very few
schools, like five schools.
I don't even know why I chosethem.
They were like the top schoolsof things we say don't do and I
was very fortunate that one ofthe schools was where I was at
at UCLA when I did myundergraduate degree and,
fortunately for me, a mentorthere advocated for me.
He made it possible for me toattend.
(14:46):
They asked for more materialsand he got me a one-year
fellowship and then I was ableto get more fellowship money
because of affirmative actionback when I was in school and
from that I think I was just ina bubble.
I mean, I don't know whathappened behind closed doors.
I don't know if I want to knowwhat happened at that admissions
day of accepting applicants ornot.
I'd rather not know, but Ididn't know.
(15:06):
Now that I know all thesethings that go on, I thought,
wow, how did that happen?
I'm not sure, but I'm gratefulfor it.
And now that we know so muchmore to make this process
definitely definitely moretransparent, because we had no
idea what happened behind closeddoors.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I love that and you know because of both of your
experiences of not knowing right.
Being first gen, I was firstgen as well, and also first or
second gen American, with myparents, you know, being from
another country, so I think wehave a lot of those similarities
there.
What, what advice would youshare with others who might find
(15:47):
themselves in a similarposition of not knowing what
their options are or thinkingthat a break isn't an option
Right, especially if they'rethinking about grad school or
not knowing what the careeroptions are for them when
they're getting close tograduation?
What advice would you have forsomeone in that position?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
One of the things that I wish was a requirement
for every single undergraduateacross the board at all
institutions, is for students tobe taught a course on career
development and on taking chargeof your career, because that
was the missing link, and alsoto have some sort of subsection
(16:31):
within that course related topivoting and how common it is to
pivot in your careers and thatit's becoming less and less, I
guess, normative for folks to gostraight into, you know, one
major and then continue in thatmajor into a career and then
continue that career until theyretire.
It's just, you know, things arechanging now and I felt like I
(16:56):
was placed on a path where I wasexpected to just follow the
pipeline you know, fromundergrad to graduate school,
from graduate school to thetenure track, from that to
tenure and retirement, and thatis the case for some but is
overwhelmingly not the case forall or for the majority of folks
.
That's why there's so few peopleof color, that's why we're
(17:19):
underrepresented in highereducation and in so many other
fields and professions.
So I guess when I say that Iwish that folks knew that they
had more options, I mean I wishthat people were emboldened and
empowered by knowing that you'rethe one that's responsible for
carving that path and forcurating it, for planning it.
(17:41):
You can follow what people tellyou to do, but if it doesn't
align with what you want to do,one day you're going to find
yourself in a position and arole where you realize you're
having a midlife crisis and youwant to change everything
completely.
So I think that's what it wouldbe is just to remind people
that you are in charge of yourown career, you are in charge of
(18:03):
your own life and that if yougo into college and graduate
school knowing this, you canmake more intentional and
strategic decisions and seek outthe support systems, the
mentors and femtors that youneed to get there.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I would echo everything that Yvette has said.
The only two other small thingsI would add is one is I always
tell students like we all havesimilar not all of us, but I
feel like the students that Ispeak to have similar goals in
terms of, you know, working onissues of social justice and
equity and inclusion to thatthere's not just one path or one
means to get to the ends or tothe goals.
(18:39):
Right, there's different paths,people take different routes.
There's so many differentplaces in which we are needed,
so it's not like I will onlymake a difference if I take X or
Y, z, no, there's all theseother ways that we need to, you
know, step up to our cause or toyour cause, whatever that might
be.
Another useful thing might beto do some sort of shadowing I
don't know if that's a good term, but just to see what is the
(19:00):
day-to-day basis.
What are they doing?
Sometimes we think like, oh,look what they're doing.
That's like 1% of their life.
The rest of the time they'rejust like in the library, or
they're doing monotonous work,or it's just reading and reading
and reading or whatever.
So that's really important isto do that kind of shadow work.
Important is to do that kind ofshadow work.
And it's kind of interestingtoo in hearing Yvette talk about
(19:21):
this pipeline that we're set on.
In many ways we're not set upfor that pipeline yet.
It's kind of like I think a lotof us, because we have all these
expectations I know for me itwas always my biggest one is
like I didn't want to fail, Iwant to make sure.
And I remember this one momentwhen I was an undergrad I had a
tutoring session with calculusand I liked to do math and I
remember I would mess somethingup and the tutor was like, oh,
mito, you failed.
My heart just sank.
(19:43):
I thought like oh my God, and Irealized like, wow, this I
don't want to say it's a failure, but like not wanting to let
down you know myself or Mars,like having the failure that I
think we project onto ourselves,that we think that other people
are, we put pressure ontoothers, that we think they're
thinking about us, but it'sreally us internalizing and
trying to make sure that wedon't fulfill those sort of
(20:04):
expectations of others.
And so I guess I just pushedmyself.
I thought like I have to makethis next phase because I'm here
, I have to prove myself, provemyself, prove myself, and
sometimes you do that.
Okay, you can do that, but whatyou end up like you've got
(20:24):
something.
You look around like wait aminute, where am I now?
What space am I in that is soforeign and so cold and so
unwelcoming and miserable.
What's happening?
So, yeah, I think that's agreat idea about that course.
It's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, I love all of this.
All of the things that you'resaying are singing to my career
coaching background and theheart of what I do.
And so what I'm hearing isadvocating right for yourself
and advocacy because we do havethe ability to go in the
(20:50):
direction that we want, whetherit's speaking to others, having
informational interviews,shadowing, actually using your
university career center.
Yes, like when I worked in theuniversity, I always wished that
it was a requirement and sohopefully we're getting there.
But if you are a first genstudent, sometimes if folks
(21:11):
don't tell you that it'srequired, you don't even realize
that that service is there foryou and you're paying into it
with your fees and everythinglike that.
So definitely take advantage ofthat.
And I heard, too, yvette withthe taking charge.
I don't know if that was like anote to my ebook.
So if you haven't gotten a copyof the taking charge career
(21:32):
guide for graduate students,definitely pick that up.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I was going to say you know what that was?
Totally I guess I must havethought of you and automatically
that phrase came out of mymouth.
So I was like what's the word?
Like maybe the subtext orsomething like in my head I was
like, oh, we're it, we're onEmanuela's podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
take charge, I love that it just came so naturally
to you.
I was like, oh yeah, awesome itis.
It is all about that.
It's like knowing that thingsdon't just happen.
You have to do something tomake the things that you want
occur.
A big part of that as well,right?
(22:21):
So when you're not able to dosome of the things, or maybe
you're not seeing the progressthat you're wanting to see, this
is where mentorship andfemtorship play a role, right?
And so in reading theintroduction, you also talked
about femtorship, mentorshiprelationships, playing a role in
the success that you had withgraduate school, and so I wanted
(22:41):
to see if you could share, youknow, a mentorship story, or
maybe even advice for howstudents can leverage these
mentorship and mentorshiprelationships for graduate
school admissions.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
First, I think it's important to figure out what
your mentorship style is eitheras a mentor or a mentee Like how
is it you best like to receiveadvice or insights about your
work If you're more of theperson who likes to receive the
cold, hard facts air quotesaround facts versus somebody who
likes to be just told gently,like here's, I'm being, you know
(23:14):
, like support and warmth andcomfort, and that comes first,
and then I'm more the trained inthe old school way.
Maybe that's sort of you know,like support and warmth and
comfort and that comes first,and then I'm more the trained in
the old school way.
Maybe that's sort of you know,chalk it up to my Mexican
immigrant roots.
But when I was in grad school Ihad there was a professor I
took he wasn't my advisor, well,not my main advisor, he wasn't
on my committee.
I took a class with him, atwo-quarter research seminar in
(23:34):
graduate school, and I struggledwith the writing.
At the end of the quarter Iproduced a paper that he really
helped me with.
So it was wonderful.
But at the very end he told methat he gave me the hard facts.
Or the hard fact I guess he saidto me you know, it would be a
good idea if you thought abouttaking a writing course, writing
at a community college.
It could really help you with.
(23:55):
You know all aspects of yourwriting and for me, I was kind
of stunned by that because Ithought like, wow, with my
writing that atrocious, is itthat hard?
But he was.
Nobody had ever told me that.
Nobody had ever taken me asideand said this is the problem,
this is what you need to do tofix it.
And I think that you knowthat's the way I've always
operated and that's where I kindof operate with my students.
(24:16):
But I have to be careful.
With every student it'sdifferent.
Some people could take it Idon't say take it, but people
could take the advice or not.
I just feel like it's better toget it from somebody who has
well intention versus getting onthe other side where they're
going to be just berating youfor that case.
And so luckily, in terms of mywriting, I had a different
(24:36):
advisor because my first oneleft.
The second one was an editor ofa journal.
He had been an editor for 30years and so he taught me how to
write.
It took me a little bit longerto finish my dissertation, but
he's the one who taught me howto write and over time, I just
worked a lot, a lot on mywriting and I still work a lot
on the writing.
So I think that that is reallyimportant.
And I would also say, in termsof the mentorship, it's
(24:57):
important as well to learn howto take that advice right, how
to process it and, especially ifit's coming from the right
person, you know, is itmentorship?
How is it being provided?
So that's the one caveat.
I have many other things Icould talk about that, but I
think that for me, when I workwith my students, I like to just
tell them this and you need tofix this, this and this, and
then just get to it instead ofyou know, I did have one student
(25:19):
, though, who is now a professor, and she said to me at one
point, when we were reviewingher stuff back and forth she
said Milos, is there anything?
can you say anything positiveabout this?
Oh, I said, yes, it's wonderful.
I just want you to, like youknow, focus on this and make it,
you know.
But now she's at an excellentinstitution R1, has.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I agree with what Miros has shared, but I do want
to add the importance of peermentorship as well, because I
was that undergraduate andgraduate student who was more
introverted, who struggled toreach out, who didn't know the
hidden curriculum, who didn'teven know what the with faculty
and those that I did havementorship relationships with.
(26:06):
Unfortunately, some of them cutties with me when they found out
that I was going off the tenuretrack.
That is the harsh reality ofwhen you make decisions and you
pivot, not everybody's going tocome along for the ride, and so,
for me, my ride or dies havebeen my peer support, peer
mentorship network.
(26:27):
That includes folks that I metthrough the McNair program, and
so peer mentorship is just asimportant as mentorship on both
ends and finding folks who arewilling to support you, no
(26:51):
matter what your plans are, evenif they are a little bit
different from what they werehoping from you, and also
finding folks who are willing tobe part of a reciprocal
relationship and can see you asa whole person, and also to have
multiple mentors, because noone person can provide
everything for you.
Some people you know are reallygood at one part of what you
(27:13):
need for your personal andprofessional development.
Other people might be able tofill other gaps.
So don't expect to have justone or two or a couple of
mentors who do it all.
Instead, branch out and, youknow, see what you can do to
receive support and to offerthem support as well.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
I'll add one more thing.
One thing I realized, now thatyou know been in academia for
several decades, is that yourmentors also change and shift
over time, and that's okay.
Like at some point I thought,when I stopped communicating as
much with one particular mentor,I thought, oh no, I'm going to
lose them, I won't see them.
It's like, oh no, now I need amentor to help me, because now
I'm an associate professor.
Right Before, when I wasassistant, I needed somebody for
(27:53):
X, y and Z.
Now I'm an associate professor,I needed to go to somebody else
.
And I think as we climb up theranks, then it becomes trickier
and trickier to find people thatwe can go to.
And that's what I'm thinkingabout working on a project
myself.
What do we do when we get atthis level?
Who do we turn to for support?
We know who those people are upthere usually white folks but
(28:16):
we want people who we can feelcomfortable talking to.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So think about mentors also can come in and out
of your life and that's okay,just depending where you're at.
Great advice.
I love that.
I love everything that you allshared and love the concept of
you know your personal board ofdirectors and just having a
bunch of folks that you can callon for various things.
With that like.
One of the things I'm thinkingabout is like advice that you
all have given your experiencesright and your knowledge in this
(28:47):
book around what historicallyexcluded students should really
consider if they're consideringthe option to go to graduate
school.
Any advice that you have tohelp them in that area.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I'm going to say that it starts with the initial
conversation of finding outwhether grad school is even a
necessary next step for them intheir career and life.
Because I have found time andtime again that sometimes
students expect to go tograduate school and like that's
the next step for everybody, butit's.
(29:23):
It's not necessarily the case,and I have also witnessed so
many people of color women ofcolor black and brown women who
have gone at the top of theranks.
They tend to be the ones thatgo and get the highest degrees
but then have the lowestsalaries.
And there's opportunity costsinvolved.
There's the opportunity cost ofthe sacrifice, the time, energy
(29:47):
, money, investment that goesinto going to graduate school.
And so if folks don't do thatinitial self-reflective work of
figuring out where do I want togo and for that career path do I
need an advanced degree, will Iget stuck at a point where I
need an advanced degree?
Will I get stuck at a pointwhere I need an advanced degree
to get there?
Then, yes, definitely there'sother things to consider, you
(30:08):
know, like finding the rightpeople, location, et cetera,
like there's.
I'm happy to have Miros talkabout that part of it, but I
definitely want to just stressthe importance of having that
tough conversation around.
Is grad school even a necessarynext step for you?
It may not be necessary, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I think she answered that question really well.
The other points are sort of,as you said, sort of standard
like in terms of thinking abouta graduate program.
You know the location.
Are you okay excuse me goingout of state?
Are you willing to deal withthe new culture?
Sometimes these other stateshave different kinds of cultures
, laws, even right Some states,especially right now.
Even the language sometimes isdifficult to the references that
(30:49):
people make too.
So, if you're going to be in anew environment, are you okay,
willing to attend a PWI?
Or do you want an NCSI or anAPZ institution, these Hispanic
serving institutions and theseand so forth?
Funding is important.
What is the climate at thecampus in terms of racial,
ethnic and gender climate?
And that is what is theenvironment like there for you.
(31:12):
Are there supportive facultyand faculty of color?
If you don't have a facultyperson who's willing to vouch
for you, have your back.
It's not going to happen.
It's just not going to work,because even the fact that most
departments won't take a studentif there's no one in the
department willing to work withthem.
So you have to make thatpersonal connection, or at least
professional connection throughemail or somehow, that that
person is willing to work withyou.
(31:33):
So that's what I would say, butdefinitely thinking about
whether it's even for you.
I've seen so many people womenof color in particular, as
Yvette says doing all thesethings and in the end they
decide to do the, you know,become the personal, this, or
have their own businesses,because the institutional racism
is this.
So you would, you know, youexhaust yourself from that.
(31:54):
It's just belittling at everymoment.
So we don't need that, we don'thave time for that.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Right, we have no time for that, for sure, and you
know that's a whole otherpodcast episode, right.
But I think it's through thosepeer mentorships, the
relationships that you have withothers, talking through other
people who've gone through thatjourney, where you can kind of
prepare yourself for thatjourney yourself and see what it
(32:23):
is that you want to do, what itis that you are not willing to
do, the environment that youwant to be in, and then you know
make your decision based off ofthat.
So, with that, what makes anapplicant competitive when they
are applying for graduate school?
What should they be thinkingabout?
What should they be doing?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
All of the things, I think the one of the things that
most institutions will look foris some kind of research
profile, that is, you've carriedout research in your area of
interest and, if so, what doesthat look like?
And also like what is thecontribution of your research?
It's hard, these are reallyhard questions to be able to
answer, especially if you'recoming straight out of
undergraduate or you've taken agap or you're what we call a
(33:06):
non-traditional student, whereyou've maybe taken 10 years away
and coming back.
So there's other ways that youcan talk about research, the
strengths that you have, thethings that you've been based on
your experiences, that you canbring to the table.
You know we talk about this inthe book, about how, like, maybe
you haven't been in a labsetting, you know, like in
traditional academic lab, butmaybe in your place of work,
(33:26):
what kinds of work you've donethere and what kinds of
research-based or what lookslike research.
So talking about that is reallyimportant.
And are you able to communicatethose research experiences as
well.
So that's really importantcommunication right, having the
ability to write well helps.
And also who you've worked with.
I hate to say that, but who'strained you essentially?
(33:50):
Who have been your mentors?
What's that training look like?
Lastly, I'll just say that,even though it's not stated,
this is part of the hiddencurriculum.
It's your trajectory.
In some cases it's yourpedigree.
Sometimes it's more about yourhistory, your personal history,
the things that you've overcome,despite you know the fact that
there was all these challengesthat you faced, and how you've
been able to sort of rise abovethat with support and so forth.
(34:11):
So that's, I think, part ofwhat people.
I think the number one thingwould be the research and how
you frame that.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I have a follow-up too, before Yvette shares her
piece.
Go ahead In terms of research.
Like I do get that sometimeswhen working with undergrads and
part of the questions that theyhave is like how do I even get
this research experience,especially if they're thinking
about grad school, like, say,their senior year?
What can they do to get thatexperience?
(34:40):
Any advice from the facultypoint of view in terms of how
some of these students can findthose opportunities?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I would say that sometimes on the campus that
they're at, they can find someopportunities.
Sometimes students will takeeither they'll stay in school
for another year but sometimeseconomically that's not feasible
or they will graduate and stickaround and work in a lab, you
know, hopefully making enough.
That's the issue, like thehousing, especially in
California, housing costs.
This is not an easy decision tomake, but if they can make the
(35:11):
sacrifice to participate, oreven in a school setting
education, somewhere related towhat they want to do, so that
they can have a strong letter ofsupport or some sort of support
from that place where they work.
Of course, when you apply tograduate school, they really
look for PhDs and people in thetenure track to write letters
for you.
So I think those personalconnections that you have with
faculty or developing those atsome point, just knocking on
(35:34):
every door that you can, that'swhat we see.
There's programs on campusesbut sometimes by the time you're
a senior they're like it's alittle bit late for that.
But I would say knocking ondoors, going to the career
center, trying to find ways.
There's different ways you cando research, not just the one,
but I think that it does becomea little bit scrabble, but it
can happen.
It just takes a little moretime.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I was just going to say.
A lot of what Milos just sharedhas to do with applying for PhD
programs in particular, and soI want to highlight what it's
like to apply to professionalprograms and master's programs
as well, because there is astrong research emphasis for PhD
programs.
There's no denying that.
But if you are applying to morepractical or applied master's
(36:12):
programs, they're going to valuethe work experience or the
professional experience just asmuch, they're going to value the
professional letter andreference just as much.
Much.
They're going to value theprofessional letter and
reference just as much.
And you know, if you'reapplying to certain fields like,
let's say you know this is likebeyond what we wrote in the
book, we primarily focus onmaster's and PhD programs.
(36:33):
But if you're applying to MDsand JDs and those fields,
they're going to want that kindof clinical experience or legal
experience.
They're going to wantinternships and externships.
And so for the folks who maybeare seniors and know, actually I
think I want to one day get aPhD, I would say don't discount
(36:54):
the fact that you can get into amaster's program or a
post-baccalaureate program withno research experience.
That is still possible.
Of course, it's easier to getinto those programs with
research experience.
But it's not impossible, it'snot.
Something that we mentioned inthe book is that there are a lot
(37:21):
of admissions committees noteverybody, but a lot of them are
looking at them holistically.
So they're looking at yourentire package so you can have
all the best research experiencein the world.
But if your essays are notstrong, if your letters of
recommendation are not strong,you're not going to get in.
If you can't make a case foryourself, you're not going to
get in.
You're not going to get in.
(37:41):
If you can't make a case foryourself, you're not going to
get in.
Whereas if you have a lower GPAand you're in a field where
there's no minimum GPArequirement and you have very
strong letters, if you polishedand tailored and have strong
essays, you have a pretty goodchance.
So I just kind of want to kindof share some other options and
some other perspectives.
Because, yes, I know like weall want to have, especially if
(38:04):
you're going the PhD route thatresearch experience, the letters
from all the top scholars.
But there is no perfectapplication, just like there is
no perfect person, just like Iwant to debunk this.
You know the notion that wehave to be perfect people,
because perfectionism is a tenetof white supremacy.
You don't have to be perfect toget in.
(38:24):
You do have to be intentionaland strategic to get in.
So keep these things in mind,depending on whether you're
going the master's route or thePhD route.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Totally, and I would also say that working with a
coach can definitely help you ifyou feel like you're not strong
in some areas, or whatever itis.
I think it's all about how youpresent yourself, how you
explain things right, so like,for example, I'm even thinking
about maybe you didn't doresearch, but you participated
in research research that tookplace on campus as a participant
(38:57):
.
You can spin that to where youcan talk about how your approach
to research would be a littledifferent because of your
experience as a participant,right, and so like.
There's ways that you can gothrough that process and tell
the story that you want to helpposition yourself as a strong
candidate.
So thank you both for sharingthat information for us.
(39:21):
Thank you both for sharing thatinformation for us, and I think
you know.
Now I just want to talk aboutwhat you hope to be the biggest
takeaway from the book that youhave coming out.
Can you share a little bitabout what you're hoping folks
take away from all of your hardwork, blood, sweat and tears?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
This is Milos.
I want readers to realize thatthis is really an act of love on
our part.
I was thinking about this for alittle bit, that here we're
saying here are the tools thatyou need to be successful, and
we're doing this because we careabout you, we care about our
community, we want to empowerour communities.
Yeah, so I think that for me,ultimately, that sums it up our
(40:02):
communities, yeah, so I thinkthat for me, ultimately, that
sums it up.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I want to echo what Milos said.
It really is an act of love.
It is, you know, I think thatyou know at the core of like
what Milos and I have in common.
I'm just projecting, so I mightbe wrong, milos, but I'm
assuming that at the core, like,one of your values is social
justice, and I've used socialjustice work as at the core is
about loving, loving people andminimizing harm, and that's what
(40:29):
I think that this book is doing.
But, you know, from theperspective of helping more
first-gen BIPOCs get intograduate school and learn about
the process, if that's the routethat they want to take, and
giving them permission to makethat decision for themselves.
So, again, I just want to echo,you know, what Miro said and
also what I mentioned earlierabout making sure that folks are
(40:51):
empowered and emboldened andgalvanized to make decisions for
themselves and to know thatthey have many, many options and
that there is no right or wrongway and that they have their
own trajectory.
Even if it doesn't happen thisyear or next year, they get to
decide this.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah, one last thing too, and the dedication is about
providing this to those whohaven't had many opportunities
in their lives, but also thisidea of paying it forward, just
thanking my mentors, just beingmindful that this is the work
that they helped me to do and Ifeel like I can't fail them,
going back to the failure that Ineed to put this out there.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Awesome.
So our time has come to an endand before I have you all share
how folks can connect with youand follow you, folks can
connect with you and follow you.
I did want to share with folksthat the book that we keep
referencing, that I talked aboutat the beginning, is called Is
Grad School for Me, navigatingthe Application Process for
(41:52):
First-Gen BIPOC Students.
It is available for pre-salenow and it does come out and is
out for a general purchase onApril 16.
So definitely make sure thatyou go out and get yourself a
copy.
Support these ladies that aredoing amazing work and are doing
(42:14):
this work to really diversifythe folks who are going and
pursuing graduate degrees.
So super excited about that andI will definitely put a link to
get the book in the show notes,but we'll turn it over to you
all to kind of share how folkscan connect with you and follow
you.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I'm happy to start.
You can reach me.
I have, I guess, three mainways.
If you're on social media, youcan find me on Instagram.
My handle isgradschoolfemtouring so like
mentoring, but with F-E-M and onLinkedIn I'm also available and
you can find me with my name,yvette Martinez Vu.
(42:54):
Place to find me is through mywebsite, gradschoolfemtouringcom
.
You can pre-order or order yourcopy of the book on there as
well.
The link for that isgradschoolfemtouringcom slash
book.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
For me, the easiest way to contact me is through my
email.
I'm not on social media but myemail it's chavezgarcia, all one
word at ucsbedu or the UC SantaBarbara History Department
website and they're underfaculty people.
I update that page.
And academiaedu.
I update that periodically.
I need to do that soon.
(43:31):
But yeah, those are the mainways to reach me.
I respond to email.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
I love it.
Thank you all so much and I'lladd all of those links into the
show notes for folks to connectwith you, purchase their copy of
the book, share it with otherswidely, and that's it for today.
Thank you so much for thisgreat conversation.
You shared some amazing gemsthat folks can walk away with
(43:58):
and really action on in terms oftheir graduate applications,
graduate school, navigating,undergrad in a way that helps
set them up for success in gradschool and all of the things.
So thank you both for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Thank you so much for amplifying our voices.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
That's a wrap.
Thank you so much for listeningto another episode of the
Writing on my Mind podcast.
If you'd like to support thepodcast, make sure you follow
the show wherever you listen topodcasts, rate the show and
leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
You can also donate to the showby clicking the support link in
the show notes.
Your donations help me tocontinue to put out new episodes
(44:43):
to help support you and otherwomen of color graduate students
.
I'd also love it if you canspread the word to other women
of color graduate students togrow our community.
Also, be sure to follow me onInstagram, tiktok and Twitter at
Dr Emanuela.
See you on the next episode.
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