April 19, 2024 • 37 mins
In this spellbinding episode, we delve into the extraordinary life of Jordan Bryan, an Australian transgender filmmaker. Jordan shares his personal journey and unique experiences which have shaped his self-identity and approach to storytelling. He discusses the challenges and anxieties associated with living dual identities, and his unexpected comfort among a Taliban unit in Afghanistan compared to a queer bar in Sydney.
The conversation takes a turn as Rick from Sigma Duocast steps in as this week's guest host. The pair share light-hearted banter about their shared love for gaming and their dependence on energy drinks to power through long hours. They then shift focus to their Podcast Pals program, a groundbreaking initiative aimed at aiding fellow podcasters in increasing their visibility and reach.
The main feature of the episode is an interview with Jordan Bryan as he narrates the process of creating his poignant feature-length documentary titled "Transition". The film offers a profound and highly personal glimpse into Afghanistan's rich cultural landscape. "Transition" intertwines Jordan's gender transition journey with his experiences in Afghanistan, making it an emotionally charged piece of art that challenges perceptions, biases and the complexities of human identity.
In the latter part of the episode, our guest speakers delve deeper into their experiences creating this thought-provoking documentary, the effects it has had on viewers, the essence of storytelling and the critical role journalism plays. They highlight the profound effects their documentary venture had on their perception and their deepened empathy for the individuals featured in the film. They also touch upon the ethical considerations involved in documentary production and the immense personal sacrifices made by conflict reporters, terming them ‘the real heroes’.
Wrapping up, the speakers share updates on the life of one of their documentary characters and express empathy for refugees forced to leave their homeland under difficult circumstances. They also encourage more people to watch their impactful documentary available on various digital streaming platforms. This episode serves as a moving commentary on the profound impacts of storytelling and documentary filmmaking, and the critical role of journalism in modern society.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:13):
Teddy and i am spending a lot of time with this taliban unit,
and as we get drawn deeper into
their world there are things about ourselves
that i have to be very careful not to reveal i think i am the first person to
have their testosterone injection in a meeting room for most of my life i've
(00:36):
been caught between identities i'm asking a question for myself how much of
that gender is influenced by society.
I feel more comfortable with the Taliban in Afghanistan than I do in a queer bar in Sydney.
It's like in Australia I've got this label on my forehead with these Talibs. I'm just a man.
(00:57):
May God make sure that everyone who thinks we're Jordan is the same.
May God make sure that everyone who thinks we're Jordan is the same.
My nerves are shot. There are too many interwoven threads.
Afghanistan is falling to pieces and everybody is trying to leave.
Are they going door to door?
(01:19):
Teddy has so much to be stressed about. This is the first time that I didn't trust him.
He has to bond with the very people that destroyed his country.
So he has all this and covering for me to worry about.
You don't know anything. As far as you understand, I'm a man. Promise me. Camilo!
(01:39):
Music.
Every time one of them gets a phone call, my heart skips a beat.
I will come back and we will both leave together. We don't have anywhere to go. You trust me, right?
(02:02):
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Uncle Dad Talks.
With me is actually not this time.
That's right, your beloved and ever so handsome Mike Hampton is doing big things
all over the world right now.
So I am actually joined by a different sexy man.
Give it up for the, maybe not as sexy, but just close enough,
(02:22):
the sexy Rick of Sigma Duocast. What's up, Rick?
Oh, good, man. It's a different flavor of sexy. You know what I mean? It's a Latin heat.
There you go there we go slam heat he's the
cajun he's the cajun uh the raging cajun and you're the latin heat
i like it i love that i think
i'm gonna be joined by just like a a series of wrestlers it sounds like right
(02:45):
i got the raging cajun and the latin heat with uncle dad to that eddie guerrero
music bro i like that i like that uh what's up rick you are this week's guest
host of a series of guest hosts that will be filling in for Mike while he's
away doing big things overseas.
How do you feel about being in Mike's seat right now?
I'm not going to lie, man. It's,
(03:06):
I got a big seat to fill. Not that he's a big guy, but he has big feet.
No, I'm excited, man. I hope to not only do Mike's position,
but also for, for you guys, for uncle, dad, and all of all the listeners.
Hopefully I can bring that.
It's going to be the Latino, but you know, maybe that Cajun style for you guys today. So I'm excited.
(03:29):
Hey, you know, Latin food and Cajun food. It's all spicy. spicy this
is true rick just do
me a quick favor can you tell our audience where they can find you and
where uh you come from not like where you're from but like
oh yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna drop my whole ad address you know yeah i'm i'm the
host for sigma duocast so you guys can find me at sigma duocast apple podcast
(03:53):
spotify i predominantly do social media is instagram so So again,
Sigma Duo Cast on Instagram.
Yeah, go check him out. And if you haven't heard him here before,
he has done some help with us in the past. I believe you've done two things for us now?
Yes. Yeah, you did the interview for Pixar, correct?
(04:14):
Yep. And then you did our Santa Barbara International Film Festival coverage,
correct? Oh, and then we also did the Halloween.
Oh, that's right. You were on that too. Yeah, yeah. That's right.
Yeah. Yeah, so Rick has been helping us out here and there.
And so, you know, it's something I'm going to start doing now when Mike is away.
I'm going to see about bringing the other podcasters in that are friends of
(04:34):
mine. When Mike is away, the casters will play.
Oh, I like that. I like that. I'm going to tell Mike to make that a sticker.
But today's episode is interesting because we are doing a, and you technically
have not done, or no, you've never done one with me before.
We're doing an interview with a filmmaker and a journalist about their documentary.
(04:54):
And we'll dive into the documentary later, but the name of the documentary is
Transition and Rick, go ahead and tell them, who are we interviewing today?
Oh yeah, so today we're interviewing the essentially star, director,
writer, everything involved in this film.
His name is Jordan Bryan, if I'm correctly, from Australia.
(05:17):
Really, really awesome story and film that they put together here today, man.
I'm like really blown away. And then the filmmaker is?
Jordan Byron. No, we're also doing the filmmaker too, remember?
Oh, we are? Yeah. Oh, that's right. right monica monica
miyamizara say that
(05:38):
one more time sir monica viamizara yeah that's okay american director mike would
have done the same thing so you're all right you know i was looking at the top
of my because i have i read i read the emails i read i forgot to scroll though
yeah right that That sounds about right.
Keep them up for me. That's what Mike would say.
(06:01):
But yeah, so it's been a really good episode. We're going to try to keep this about 20, 30 minutes.
But before we do that, before we head to go do that interview,
we got to talk about the people who are powering this show.
And we have a couple of people powering the show. First up, we need to talk
about Rogue Energy Drink.
Now, Rogue Energy Drink is Mike.
See, I've been calling you Mike already.
(06:22):
It's pretty much almost the same thing. Rick and Mike.
Rick you are a gamer i'm a gamer and when
you play games and you're playing those long hours don't you
wish you had that boost of energy to keep you going oh absolutely
because once my kd ratio starts to go down i'm
like what is happening yeah what is not focusing so i
got something for you my friend rogue energy is a energy
(06:45):
combination or drink or powder whatever
these cool kids are calling it these days but basically it's an
energy formula where basically you can use it and it'll
kind of change the way you play your game no
actually that's not true but it but no in
all seriousness this is a dietary supplement that will actually help
with your focus and your energy when you're playing gaming it's designed for
(07:08):
gamers by gamers rogue energy they have great flavors what's great about it
zero calories we all we all worry about the calories right absolutely and and
the cool thing is they have so many great products on their website not only
do they have energy drinks but they also have hydration hydration drinks or sorry,
hydration packets along with relaxation packets.
Now, I'm a big fan of the relaxation packets because after a long day of working
(07:31):
or doing whatever, you're hitting the gym hard right now, you want to just chill out.
And what better way to do that with Rogue Energy Chill? I know it sounds kind
of like an oxymoron, but that's what it is.
So, Rick, let me tell you how you can go get that right now and save some money.
So if you go to Rogue Energy Drink or RogueEnergy.com.
I use promo code UNCLEDAD10. That's all one word, UNCLEDAD10.
(07:54):
You'll get 10% off your order. And it does stack with other existing deals.
So what you got to do, you got to go get that right now.
Oh, I'm about to jump on it. Yeah, you better. Jump on it. Jump on it.
And then, of course, we have our new program we're starting to help fellow podcasters
get things out there. And that's called the Podcast Pals.
(08:15):
UNCLEDAD's Podcast Pals is a program that if you have a podcast and you want
it to be promoted, I don't believe in taking away the throne from everybody.
I believe in sharing the throne.
And so we're not saying I have a throne, but if I had one, I would share it with everybody.
And the way we do that is by allowing us to shout out your podcast.
So if you want your podcast, shout it out here.
(08:35):
All you got to do is go to basically send me an email at UncleDad at UncleDadTalks.com
and we will talk about pricing.
Pricing is very affordable. And what we do is what I'm about to do right now.
So give it up for our friend, dear fellow podcaster.
His name is Tuna DeLuna, and he has his own podcast called First and Tuna.
(08:56):
If you go to YouTube, type in First and Tuna, you will find his podcast.
Go give it a listen. It is a sports podcast that is designed basically to be
a football podcast for everyone.
He doesn't want it to be just for people who are hardcore sports nerds.
He wants it to be for the everyday man or person.
So please go check him out and that is first in
(09:17):
tuna on youtube and he is
a great guy he's helped us out before too and if you want your podcast featured
all you got to do is go to uncle dad at uncle dad talks.com and we will talk
pricing ah all right how does that sound to you rick oh that's fantastic i'm
gonna listen to the guy i think he was doing something about some mock drafts
or something because the nfl season's about to start so it's pretty exciting yes nfl season's.
(09:40):
Maybe NFL season's about to start. Yeah, once signings happen and once practice
and all that stuff starts happening, the season's starting, baby.
Not actual playing, but it's happening.
See, that's why this podcast is great, because I'm not a sports fanatic. I'm just a sports fan.
You are a fanatic. Oh, yes. And you are a Broncos fan, right?
(10:05):
Yes, sir. Denver Broncos. I'm sorry.
I am too right now. We can't figure out our quarterbacks. But we have,
hey, we have the ex-Cajun running our team and Sean Payton.
So he's bringing his New Orleans Saints to Denver. There you go.
Mike would be proud, I guess.
Drew Brees is going to come out of retirement. Watch out. Oh,
don't even say that. Don't even say that.
(10:27):
But yeah, so please, you know, when we do these ads and stuff,
it's just to keep the show going and keep it alive.
And if you want something featured here, please feel free to email me at
uncle dad uncle dad talks.com and we can talk about pricing
all right me and rick will be right back and when we come back you'll listen
to our interview with these amazing inspiring filmmakers and documentarians
(10:48):
and we just hope that you go see the movie transition which is available now
on on demand and i believe any other streaming service that i'm forgetting do you know,
no pretty much i think it's on all of them all the predominant ones all right
that's my man right All right, everybody, we'll be right back after this.
(11:34):
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All right, everybody, Uncle Dad here. We have a very exciting guest,
as you heard in our interview. I'm so excited for this one. Rick,
(12:22):
just really quickly say hello. Hello.
Hi how's it going everyone uh we are here with someone who has a story to tell
and i just want them to introduce themselves really fast jordan by brian i can
never say your last name i'm sorry,
can you please say your last name so i know it brian brian i it's so funny so
(12:45):
on this show i say everybody's last name wrong i just have the hardest time
with last names but jordan brian Brian,
please introduce yourself to our audience and we will go from there.
Okay. G'day, g'day, g'day. I'm Jordan Bryan.
I'm an Aussie transgender filmmaker. Awesome.
(13:05):
I love that. So right out of the gate, I think this is probably the most basic
question out there, but we've got to get out of the way.
What inspired you to create the documentary Transition? so
i've been living in afghanistan for five
years and you know i knew i was
going to transition but i was waiting until i left afghanistan but
(13:26):
i just didn't want to leave afghanistan it's such an incredible place so i ended
up starting my hormone injections when i was living in afghanistan and as a
filmmaker i thought that documenting my transition in afghanistan could be a way to show
audiences the version of Afghanistan that I loved and was experiencing.
(13:50):
I mean, Afghanistan is really the most profound and surprising and incredible place.
For me as a foreigner, I lived a very different life from Afghans.
Like Afghan queer people are severely oppressed and tortured and have no rights whatsoever.
But for me as a privileged privileged foreigner, I really lived an incredible experience there.
(14:14):
And so I started my transition and I started documenting it to show audiences
the Afghanistan that I loved.
But then when the Taliban took over six months later, obviously shit hit the
fan, to say the least, and I stopped documenting my process.
I didn't have the capacity.
And that's when Monica Villamizar, the co-director and producer,
(14:36):
heard about me and heard about the film and then she jumped on and convinced
me to keep shooting and to make the film that we made.
I blame her. um once again
it's a positive upward blame right exactly can
you share with us like what are some of the main themes explored in the film
(14:58):
i think having a non-binary perspective on very typically binary topics you
know these the binary thinking that we have with the good guys and the bad guys love, hate, man,
woman, to really try to reframe everything as a bit of a mix or constantly moving
(15:20):
up and down the spectrum between good guy and bad guy, love and hate.
I think for me, that's the most important part of the story,
to give people an experience with the Taliban.
I mean, the Talib characters in the film, you know, and we think we know about
the Taliban and we hate the Taliban, And rightly so, as an organization,
they are absolutely fucking awful.
(15:43):
They're oppressive. They're brutal.
They're erasing women from society.
And within that organization, you have a whole bunch of individuals, most of them awful.
But every now and then, there's a decent human being amongst them.
And we were lucky enough to find one of those decent human beings.
(16:03):
Through him, we got to learn more about the Taliban, about their own,
you know, their own suffering, their own disappointments, their own despair and hopes and humor.
And then, you know, you start to realize that this person who has this label,
which is Talib, is actually a multidimensional person, just like the rest of us.
(16:24):
And then you, while you're watching the film, you start to have this experience
of like discomfort because you're like, wait, am I actually connecting with a Talib?
Like, how can I be connecting with a Talib? This is just not okay.
And, you know, what the film does is ask people to hold both his brutality and
(16:45):
his oppressive behavior and his tenderness and his humor and his kindness at the same time.
And this experience is is pushing people to stop thinking in binaries.
That was an epic answer. Did that make any sense? That did. That did.
And it's great because it leads into my next question.
(17:06):
Because when you tell stories, right, you're telling a story,
like the way you're talking about right now, you're telling a story of an individual.
How do you approach that kind of storytelling? How do you tell that kind of
story without making them seem, like you said, binary one way or the other? How do you do that?
I think, like, I mean, it's my job as a filmmaker, You're always looking for
(17:27):
what they're not saying, what the character is not saying. We call it subtext.
And so like when you spend a lot of time with a character, you start to understand
the subtext in their life.
So, you know, even if a certain sentence is coming out of their mouth,
you know that it actually means something else or it's linked to something else.
(17:51):
And so in spending a lot of time with these guys.
Yeah, so when you're spending a lot of time with these guys,
you get to understand the things that they're not saying,
and you get to understand body language and glances and things that enable you
to dive deeper into their character.
And then when you are filming, you're looking for these moments and making sure
(18:14):
that you're recording them, and that's how you build out a multidimensional character.
So first off, welcome, Monica. I know we had echoes going on there.
It's all right. It's in 3D, but audio. So the question I have for you is,
what challenges did you face during the production of this documentary?
Yeah, well, the production of the documentary was very challenging in so many ways.
(18:37):
First of all, you know, it was taking place, I guess, in what's described as an active war zone.
So it's very hard to, you know, get a crew mobilized there to go there yourself.
The regime in place was not recognized by the international community.
It's a rogue regime. the Taliban had taken over.
We had all sorts of issues filming in Iran, for instance, as well,
(18:58):
where, you know, there's not like a free press and it's extremely hard to,
you know, be a journalist there and make documentary content there.
So from like international travel to security issues to a lot of these challenges
were mainly what we were facing.
But, you know, the story was so extraordinary.
(19:20):
And Jordan had so much access in these places and so many connections with the
community and people who were there to facilitate and help that it made it all better.
My next question, I think, is really for both of you, because talking about
what you guys are both saying, and we'll start with you, Jordan, first.
What do you hope that the audience takes away from watching Transition?
Yeah, I mean, everything I said about the non-binary perspective on things, I think, you know,
(19:46):
when we have experiences of pushing our brains to be elastic and to get out
of these ideas and these,
like, you know, we think we know, and I want people to realize that we don't know.
Whatever we think we know, there is so much more to know and to have that be
(20:08):
our default position when we are meeting people or reading or watching films.
And you, Monica? It's a great question.
I think my answer is twofold. I think in general, I want an audience to take
away from our film the fact that it's OK to have complexity and to feel,
(20:29):
you know, different sort of feelings throughout the film and to explore several
issues and to feel you are in contradiction with your own beliefs,
question your kind of dogmas and your moral system, if you will. I think that's all OK.
Like, I think we have a tendency to really get used to films that are kind of
they tell you this is what it is and this is how you should feel the takeaway.
(20:53):
And I think it's OK to kind of explore and get lost in these things.
And also, like more on a personal level, I want people to take home the fact
that being a conflict reporter is extremely difficult, that we sacrifice a lot
personally to keep you all informed and that it is a worthy profession.
We need to know what's going on in the world because you know things matter
(21:14):
and they will keep happening so you know it's it's kind of a a love letter i
always say to the profession in
a way can i add one more thing to that also like uh you know one of the things
one of the reasons that i wanted to make this film in the first place was to
also let all of the little kids out there.
Know that guys we can do everything
(21:37):
and anything and i know life is real difficult like
but then you watch this film and you see that this person
was going through a really hard time and at the same time was still like being
a filmmaker living in afghanistan doing the whole thing and now i'm like the
happiest person i've ever met so i just want to remind all the queer kids out
there like don't worry everything's going to be so great i absolutely love that
(21:59):
and i think look that's such a great message, right?
Because the thing is, you know, we go through any impression is never good, right?
But then when we can see yourself through that, we realize, you know,
I'm just being me and that is who I want to be.
And that's all I ever need to be is who I want to be, right?
As long as you are not hurting anybody and you are spreading,
you know, happiness and love, that's all that matters, right?
(22:20):
And I think sometimes we forget that.
And I love the fact that you said that because you're right.
This younger generation needs to know that you're You're going to be okay.
You're going to get through it. And when we get to that point,
you're going to love who you are. And hopefully you agree with that entirely, Jordan.
So it's kind of a two-part question. The first one was for Jordan,
you know, what drew you to live in Afghanistan as you've been here for five years?
(22:44):
And then the second part of this question is there's a part in the movie where
you're kind of explaining like the hardships of the importance of journalism
and, you know, just toughing it through and everything.
Thing why and then and then also saying like you know once you you know you
move on more future journalists should come what what is the most importance
(23:05):
as far as continuing and showcasing like what is happening in afghanistan why
is it important to let everyone know.
I was living in Afghanistan because when I was a teenager, my mom,
who you also meet in the film, bloody legend that she is, she had been giving
me stuff to read about Afghanistan when I was a teenager,
(23:26):
which is quite impressive for a woman that is living in a very,
very small rural town in Australia back in the 90s.
For her to be giving her kid literature about Afghanistan to read was quite
remarkable. So I always had this magical image of this place in my mind.
And then when it was time to go, it was time to go. So I moved there.
(23:48):
But I'm going to let Mon answer the question about why it's important for journalists to do their job.
Well, I think, you know, Afghanistan is America's longest war, right?
So I think there's a general, you know, starting by that, we're all kind of
attracted or interested by the fact of, you know, America sort of went to this
(24:09):
country, invaded for so long.
And then where did everything go?
Where did all the money, how was it spent? And the regime change and the sort
of democracy building that was done sort of all crumbled and collapsed very
quickly as the Taliban took over.
So I think there's sort of like a discourse, a public discourse in the media
and by government of what's going on and how it's working.
(24:32):
And then it really contrasted to like, wait, what just happened there?
And what is the reason? So for us through Jordan to get such intimate access
to the Taliban that were this enemy,
abstract and extremely feared, but who we were able to know in a very different
way from like a military standpoint, which was America's approach,
was, I think, very interesting and very valuable.
(24:54):
I mean, all these people come up to us and say the footage.
Document like historic document of these men is absolutely
incredible you know afghanistan is really
one of the most misunderstood places in the world because
you know people didn't have access to to the country to like you know the real
country the real people and there was a very very narrow narrative about the
(25:19):
country and i think these kinds of stories that show a different version of Afghanistan,
the Afghanistan that we all fall in love with, like all of us that go there
absolutely fall in love with it.
I think it's a good reminder for people to remember that Afghanistan is a place
that's worth fighting for.
It's been a hot mess for the longest time and it wasn't paradise before. Now it's hell on earth.
(25:41):
But there is still so much worth fighting for there.
It's really the most amazing relationship I've ever had in that country.
That that aspect because i mean i'm sure it'll probably segue to the next question but,
it was just very interesting to see the way
it was presented because it very did to your point it gave
us a whole different perspective and it gave me a different level of empathy
(26:04):
to certain individuals within the the film and i'm like oh and it kind of like
you kind of said it a couple times it like kind of makes you teeter back and
forth like you know what they're about but then And also it's like,
there's compassion here at the same time,
but wait a minute. So it was very interesting to see that.
I, you know, what I love about that too, is that the, the concept that you said
(26:26):
of a compassion and fighting for, you know, your, your home.
Right. And I think in many ways, you know, no matter what the image may be on the outside, right.
It's still somebody's home, right? Like it's still somebody's place of where
they are and what they're dealing with.
And, you know, shedding and not enough films, I think, show the inside of what
people are dealing with in their home. You know what I mean?
In many ways, this film is like a, it's, it's a movie about misfits,
(26:49):
right? People trying to fit in where they want to fit in. Right.
And I love that because we, you know, even in this show, we always talk about
how do we how do we kind of grow from our turmoil? Right. Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do.
And I think you guys nail that in such a such a great way.
So my question for both of you is, what do you think the impact of this film
is going to do to have on audiences overall?
(27:11):
I mean, I don't know. I think the impact is going to vary.
I mean, loads of people have sort of come up to us in festivals and and reacted
in very different ways. case, I think ultimately what I think Americans will
take out of it is that it's very much a film about freedom and the lack of freedom.
So what happens when you are free and emancipated and you can be true to yourself
(27:32):
and you're good in your own skin,
which is Jordan's case, but, you know, the opposite with a country,
a population that's losing its freedoms bit by bit, you know,
like women most specifically, too.
I mean, they're really the ones that have been the most affected and they've
gone completely backwards. But, you know, it's not something that's happening in a vacuum.
You know, women in America, we have lost a lot of freedom, too,
(27:52):
with all the abortion debate, for instance.
And I think there is weirdly like parallels and it resonates with the American
public in that way, because it is a country that's founded to,
you know, pursue freedom, individual freedom.
And I think this film explores that in an interesting way, or at least we wanted
it to be an interesting way. Yeah, we hope it was interesting.
(28:14):
I think I mean everyone that has seen the film like I mean hundreds and thousands
of people have seen the film and I have not had,
one person speak negatively about the film.
And I think that is a real testimony to the skillful storytelling of the team, of the directors,
(28:37):
the producers, and especially the editors, to be able to tell a story that has
so much potential to be awful.
It has so much potential to to offend Afghans, to offend trans people,
to offend people of color.
It really has so much potential. But everybody that watches it is so moved by
(28:59):
the humanity of all of the characters.
And I think that was more of a self-promoting review than a comment on what
people are going to take away.
Wait, not my answer.
I think it's fine. I think I like it.
Yeah, that'll work. You earned that. You earned that ability to say that.
(29:21):
You know what I mean? And I think that's okay. Oh, my God.
At least this one's for Monica. It's like, how did you navigate? Actually, both of you.
How did you navigate the ethical considerations while documenting such personal stories?
That's a great question. And we get asked that a lot. I think, look, we navigated.
I guess the short version of the answer is that being a journalist,
(29:41):
like I'm kind of used to navigating these ethical minefields.
It's something that journalists are always thinking about.
And with Jordan, we very much discussed this, the ethical dilemmas the whole time.
The first thing that we did that I think was unique, and I'm happy we did it,
was that we put it out there transparently.
Jordan's going through this, the editorial team's going through this.
(30:01):
We want it out there for the audience to see that we were struggling with these ethical qualms.
And I think that is very honest, at least in the film.
We were always basically wondering how to present the Taliban in a way that
wasn't too humanizing because they've done awful things, but also had a lot
(30:21):
of questions like, should we be.
Telling them more about what we're doing?
I mean, we were very upfront with them. We're doing a story about Jordan and
documenting his life behind the scenes so they knew, but they didn't know about his identity.
And we thought it wasn't really their business. And ultimately,
this also would protect them with the hierarchy.
So yeah, the ethics were really at the forefront the whole time in our conversations.
(30:47):
Dilemmas are like really part of the key themes of the film.
And I just know that like for myself as, as a character and as the person who
was living through this, those ethical dilemmas were a part of our day-to-day life. And I.
You know, I think that's also what really makes the film interesting and unique
(31:09):
is that we have, like Mon said, we have made those ethical dilemmas a part of the film.
But I just want to say one thing that's very important to say,
like, you know, the real hero of this film is Teddy.
Ready he as an Afghan filmmaker to to
stay with me and to go and embed with that
Taliban unit and front up to them and make his relationships with them with
(31:32):
the the people that destroyed his country that have ruined his life it's uh
it's an incredible incredible strength and testimony to his character that he
was so committed to being a filmmaker and to to telling stories that he was
putting his own struggles aside.
So, you know, it's all good and well for Mon and I to talk about our ethical
(31:54):
dilemmas, but it's Teddy who had to go through way more than the rest of us.
Everything you guys have been saying has been having a general theme,
right? And I love that theme of how the story matters, right?
The story matters for everybody.
But what I wanted to really touch on before we wrap up here,
we talked about journalism and how journalists,
you know, it does, Because maybe I'm misseeing it, but it does seem like it's
(32:18):
becoming a slight dying profession and where people are not getting involved into it as much anymore.
And I want to point out that journalism is so important to everything that we
need in life right now, especially in the stories that we have going on overseas, even here at home.
We need journalists. And I think my, I guess my question about that is how do
(32:40):
we inspire more journalists, more young youth, young people to say,
I need to get out there and tell the story?
What do you think is that idea that could help spark that interest again?
I think that, I mean, I'm not a journalist, I'm a filmmaker,
but it's under the same umbrella.
I mean, guys, this is the most fun job you can possibly ever imagine.
(33:02):
Like getting up close and personal with people that you would never otherwise get to know and like,
traveling to places and discovering things and learning about yourself in the process.
It's absolutely the funnest job ever. And it's also a really creative job.
No, I love your question. And I think it's thank you for it. And you are right.
(33:24):
Journalism is in a total crisis. It's partly our fault, the media's fault.
But I want to tell young people or people in general, imagine a world where
everything you're fed content wise is like celebrity or or true crime, or these kind of things.
You're not going to know anything that's happening around the world.
And when bombs explode and missiles strike, and what's happening in Gaza,
(33:46):
for instance, you're not going to have a clue why.
We all have a right for information, and democracy is going to die without information.
So it is a very important fundamental right. And I hope that inspires people
to go out there and become journalists, and not just put stuff on YouTube or TikTok, whatever.
You know, it is a profession with editors and people who study and,
(34:08):
you know, have a lot of discussions and and almost like have a hierarchy of
the news. And that's there for a reason.
Like, we need to trust the institutions. And I know they failed us,
but the media institutions are important.
Rick, before we wrap up here, do you have any last questions?
The one thing I just want to ask real quick is for Jordan is because you mentioned
Teddy. How is Teddy doing?
(34:28):
So what's such a wonderful individual? visual and i
really love the story and i definitely felt for him especially a couple
scenes there that were a little a little a little hard because i know he you
know we're watching the news and what's getting updates and i saw the the you
know just the tragedy of his like you said his country and and whatnot and then
even when you were leaving for a brief moment and he didn't you know didn't
(34:51):
really know if you're going to come back or not i was so happy i was like.
Come back so like how is
he doing oh teddy he's um i saw him
he's living in uh living in in berlin i saw
him i hung out with him for a few days a couple of
weeks ago he's um he's okay he's he's working full-time and studying german
(35:12):
full-time so he's 24 7 seven days a week he's exhausted and he's not really
connecting so well with german culture but hopefully once he learns more of
the language, that will change.
I mean, Teddy never wanted to leave Afghanistan. He had dreams of starting a
production company and staying there.
But then the bloody Taliban came and it's not possible for anyone with a mind
(35:36):
or ambitions like Teddy's to stay there.
So he literally was forced to leave. He's not great, but he's making the most of it.
You know, like refugees, man, they don't want to leave their bloody home country.
They don't want to come and live in a
completely different culture and language and everything like
it's uh it's really tough they're damned if they stay and
(35:58):
damned if they go yeah that's that's it's
unfortunate right that you have to be put in that situation to to to
do so but i think the only thing we can always do is
stay positive right and find our way to to just you know like we said tell our
story some way right so as we wrap up here i just wanted to tell you guys both
thank you so much for your time thank you so much for being a part of this and
thank you for allowing us to share your story with so many people and i believe
(36:21):
that that this movie is going to touch a lot of people. It's going to inspire a lot of people.
And I believe that we need to get more people to watch it. So Jordan,
if you may tell them where they can find your movie right now, please. Yes, guys.
It's on like Amazon prime, Apple.
YouTube premium, Vimeo premium, and a whole bunch of like basically all of the
(36:47):
big digital streaming platforms in the U S and only in the U S at this point, you can rent it.
So go find it and watch it and have an experience.
Yes, please do. And I want to say something to Monica real fast.
Monica, representing journalism, just keep that fire burning.
(37:07):
Let's keep that flag burning.
Let's keep growing journalism and women in journalism.
Thank you so much. That's great. And minorities in journalism because I'm Latin.
Thank you so much Thank you for having us guys Great conversation,
(37:29):
Thank you Thank you guys Bye bye.
Music.
(00:13):
Teddy and i am spending a lot of time with this taliban unit,
and as we get drawn deeper into
their world there are things about ourselves
that i have to be very careful not to reveal i think i am the first person to
have their testosterone injection in a meeting room for most of my life i've
(00:36):
been caught between identities i'm asking a question for myself how much of
that gender is influenced by society.
I feel more comfortable with the Taliban in Afghanistan than I do in a queer bar in Sydney.
It's like in Australia I've got this label on my forehead with these Talibs. I'm just a man.
(00:57):
May God make sure that everyone who thinks we're Jordan is the same.
May God make sure that everyone who thinks we're Jordan is the same.
My nerves are shot. There are too many interwoven threads.
Afghanistan is falling to pieces and everybody is trying to leave.
Are they going door to door?
(01:19):
Teddy has so much to be stressed about. This is the first time that I didn't trust him.
He has to bond with the very people that destroyed his country.
So he has all this and covering for me to worry about.
You don't know anything. As far as you understand, I'm a man. Promise me. Camilo!
(01:39):
Music.
Every time one of them gets a phone call, my heart skips a beat.
I will come back and we will both leave together. We don't have anywhere to go. You trust me, right?
(02:02):
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Uncle Dad Talks.
With me is actually not this time.
That's right, your beloved and ever so handsome Mike Hampton is doing big things
all over the world right now.
So I am actually joined by a different sexy man.
Give it up for the, maybe not as sexy, but just close enough,
(02:22):
the sexy Rick of Sigma Duocast. What's up, Rick?
Oh, good, man. It's a different flavor of sexy. You know what I mean? It's a Latin heat.
There you go there we go slam heat he's the
cajun he's the cajun uh the raging cajun and you're the latin heat
i like it i love that i think
i'm gonna be joined by just like a a series of wrestlers it sounds like right
(02:45):
i got the raging cajun and the latin heat with uncle dad to that eddie guerrero
music bro i like that i like that uh what's up rick you are this week's guest
host of a series of guest hosts that will be filling in for Mike while he's
away doing big things overseas.
How do you feel about being in Mike's seat right now?
I'm not going to lie, man. It's,
(03:06):
I got a big seat to fill. Not that he's a big guy, but he has big feet.
No, I'm excited, man. I hope to not only do Mike's position,
but also for, for you guys, for uncle, dad, and all of all the listeners.
Hopefully I can bring that.
It's going to be the Latino, but you know, maybe that Cajun style for you guys today. So I'm excited.
(03:29):
Hey, you know, Latin food and Cajun food. It's all spicy. spicy this
is true rick just do
me a quick favor can you tell our audience where they can find you and
where uh you come from not like where you're from but like
oh yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna drop my whole ad address you know yeah i'm i'm the
host for sigma duocast so you guys can find me at sigma duocast apple podcast
(03:53):
spotify i predominantly do social media is instagram so So again,
Sigma Duo Cast on Instagram.
Yeah, go check him out. And if you haven't heard him here before,
he has done some help with us in the past. I believe you've done two things for us now?
Yes. Yeah, you did the interview for Pixar, correct?
(04:14):
Yep. And then you did our Santa Barbara International Film Festival coverage,
correct? Oh, and then we also did the Halloween.
Oh, that's right. You were on that too. Yeah, yeah. That's right.
Yeah. Yeah, so Rick has been helping us out here and there.
And so, you know, it's something I'm going to start doing now when Mike is away.
I'm going to see about bringing the other podcasters in that are friends of
(04:34):
mine. When Mike is away, the casters will play.
Oh, I like that. I like that. I'm going to tell Mike to make that a sticker.
But today's episode is interesting because we are doing a, and you technically
have not done, or no, you've never done one with me before.
We're doing an interview with a filmmaker and a journalist about their documentary.
(04:54):
And we'll dive into the documentary later, but the name of the documentary is
Transition and Rick, go ahead and tell them, who are we interviewing today?
Oh yeah, so today we're interviewing the essentially star, director,
writer, everything involved in this film.
His name is Jordan Bryan, if I'm correctly, from Australia.
(05:17):
Really, really awesome story and film that they put together here today, man.
I'm like really blown away. And then the filmmaker is?
Jordan Byron. No, we're also doing the filmmaker too, remember?
Oh, we are? Yeah. Oh, that's right. right monica monica
miyamizara say that
(05:38):
one more time sir monica viamizara yeah that's okay american director mike would
have done the same thing so you're all right you know i was looking at the top
of my because i have i read i read the emails i read i forgot to scroll though
yeah right that That sounds about right.
Keep them up for me. That's what Mike would say.
(06:01):
But yeah, so it's been a really good episode. We're going to try to keep this about 20, 30 minutes.
But before we do that, before we head to go do that interview,
we got to talk about the people who are powering this show.
And we have a couple of people powering the show. First up, we need to talk
about Rogue Energy Drink.
Now, Rogue Energy Drink is Mike.
See, I've been calling you Mike already.
(06:22):
It's pretty much almost the same thing. Rick and Mike.
Rick you are a gamer i'm a gamer and when
you play games and you're playing those long hours don't you
wish you had that boost of energy to keep you going oh absolutely
because once my kd ratio starts to go down i'm
like what is happening yeah what is not focusing so i
got something for you my friend rogue energy is a energy
(06:45):
combination or drink or powder whatever
these cool kids are calling it these days but basically it's an
energy formula where basically you can use it and it'll
kind of change the way you play your game no
actually that's not true but it but no in
all seriousness this is a dietary supplement that will actually help
with your focus and your energy when you're playing gaming it's designed for
(07:08):
gamers by gamers rogue energy they have great flavors what's great about it
zero calories we all we all worry about the calories right absolutely and and
the cool thing is they have so many great products on their website not only
do they have energy drinks but they also have hydration hydration drinks or sorry,
hydration packets along with relaxation packets.
Now, I'm a big fan of the relaxation packets because after a long day of working
(07:31):
or doing whatever, you're hitting the gym hard right now, you want to just chill out.
And what better way to do that with Rogue Energy Chill? I know it sounds kind
of like an oxymoron, but that's what it is.
So, Rick, let me tell you how you can go get that right now and save some money.
So if you go to Rogue Energy Drink or RogueEnergy.com.
I use promo code UNCLEDAD10. That's all one word, UNCLEDAD10.
(07:54):
You'll get 10% off your order. And it does stack with other existing deals.
So what you got to do, you got to go get that right now.
Oh, I'm about to jump on it. Yeah, you better. Jump on it. Jump on it.
And then, of course, we have our new program we're starting to help fellow podcasters
get things out there. And that's called the Podcast Pals.
(08:15):
UNCLEDAD's Podcast Pals is a program that if you have a podcast and you want
it to be promoted, I don't believe in taking away the throne from everybody.
I believe in sharing the throne.
And so we're not saying I have a throne, but if I had one, I would share it with everybody.
And the way we do that is by allowing us to shout out your podcast.
So if you want your podcast, shout it out here.
(08:35):
All you got to do is go to basically send me an email at UncleDad at UncleDadTalks.com
and we will talk about pricing.
Pricing is very affordable. And what we do is what I'm about to do right now.
So give it up for our friend, dear fellow podcaster.
His name is Tuna DeLuna, and he has his own podcast called First and Tuna.
(08:56):
If you go to YouTube, type in First and Tuna, you will find his podcast.
Go give it a listen. It is a sports podcast that is designed basically to be
a football podcast for everyone.
He doesn't want it to be just for people who are hardcore sports nerds.
He wants it to be for the everyday man or person.
So please go check him out and that is first in
(09:17):
tuna on youtube and he is
a great guy he's helped us out before too and if you want your podcast featured
all you got to do is go to uncle dad at uncle dad talks.com and we will talk
pricing ah all right how does that sound to you rick oh that's fantastic i'm
gonna listen to the guy i think he was doing something about some mock drafts
or something because the nfl season's about to start so it's pretty exciting yes nfl season's.
(09:40):
Maybe NFL season's about to start. Yeah, once signings happen and once practice
and all that stuff starts happening, the season's starting, baby.
Not actual playing, but it's happening.
See, that's why this podcast is great, because I'm not a sports fanatic. I'm just a sports fan.
You are a fanatic. Oh, yes. And you are a Broncos fan, right?
(10:05):
Yes, sir. Denver Broncos. I'm sorry.
I am too right now. We can't figure out our quarterbacks. But we have,
hey, we have the ex-Cajun running our team and Sean Payton.
So he's bringing his New Orleans Saints to Denver. There you go.
Mike would be proud, I guess.
Drew Brees is going to come out of retirement. Watch out. Oh,
don't even say that. Don't even say that.
(10:27):
But yeah, so please, you know, when we do these ads and stuff,
it's just to keep the show going and keep it alive.
And if you want something featured here, please feel free to email me at
uncle dad uncle dad talks.com and we can talk about pricing
all right me and rick will be right back and when we come back you'll listen
to our interview with these amazing inspiring filmmakers and documentarians
(10:48):
and we just hope that you go see the movie transition which is available now
on on demand and i believe any other streaming service that i'm forgetting do you know,
no pretty much i think it's on all of them all the predominant ones all right
that's my man right All right, everybody, we'll be right back after this.
(11:34):
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All right, everybody, Uncle Dad here. We have a very exciting guest,
as you heard in our interview. I'm so excited for this one. Rick,
(12:22):
just really quickly say hello. Hello.
Hi how's it going everyone uh we are here with someone who has a story to tell
and i just want them to introduce themselves really fast jordan by brian i can
never say your last name i'm sorry,
can you please say your last name so i know it brian brian i it's so funny so
(12:45):
on this show i say everybody's last name wrong i just have the hardest time
with last names but jordan brian Brian,
please introduce yourself to our audience and we will go from there.
Okay. G'day, g'day, g'day. I'm Jordan Bryan.
I'm an Aussie transgender filmmaker. Awesome.
(13:05):
I love that. So right out of the gate, I think this is probably the most basic
question out there, but we've got to get out of the way.
What inspired you to create the documentary Transition? so
i've been living in afghanistan for five
years and you know i knew i was
going to transition but i was waiting until i left afghanistan but
(13:26):
i just didn't want to leave afghanistan it's such an incredible place so i ended
up starting my hormone injections when i was living in afghanistan and as a
filmmaker i thought that documenting my transition in afghanistan could be a way to show
audiences the version of Afghanistan that I loved and was experiencing.
(13:50):
I mean, Afghanistan is really the most profound and surprising and incredible place.
For me as a foreigner, I lived a very different life from Afghans.
Like Afghan queer people are severely oppressed and tortured and have no rights whatsoever.
But for me as a privileged privileged foreigner, I really lived an incredible experience there.
(14:14):
And so I started my transition and I started documenting it to show audiences
the Afghanistan that I loved.
But then when the Taliban took over six months later, obviously shit hit the
fan, to say the least, and I stopped documenting my process.
I didn't have the capacity.
And that's when Monica Villamizar, the co-director and producer,
(14:36):
heard about me and heard about the film and then she jumped on and convinced
me to keep shooting and to make the film that we made.
I blame her. um once again
it's a positive upward blame right exactly can
you share with us like what are some of the main themes explored in the film
(14:58):
i think having a non-binary perspective on very typically binary topics you
know these the binary thinking that we have with the good guys and the bad guys love, hate, man,
woman, to really try to reframe everything as a bit of a mix or constantly moving
(15:20):
up and down the spectrum between good guy and bad guy, love and hate.
I think for me, that's the most important part of the story,
to give people an experience with the Taliban.
I mean, the Talib characters in the film, you know, and we think we know about
the Taliban and we hate the Taliban, And rightly so, as an organization,
they are absolutely fucking awful.
(15:43):
They're oppressive. They're brutal.
They're erasing women from society.
And within that organization, you have a whole bunch of individuals, most of them awful.
But every now and then, there's a decent human being amongst them.
And we were lucky enough to find one of those decent human beings.
(16:03):
Through him, we got to learn more about the Taliban, about their own,
you know, their own suffering, their own disappointments, their own despair and hopes and humor.
And then, you know, you start to realize that this person who has this label,
which is Talib, is actually a multidimensional person, just like the rest of us.
(16:24):
And then you, while you're watching the film, you start to have this experience
of like discomfort because you're like, wait, am I actually connecting with a Talib?
Like, how can I be connecting with a Talib? This is just not okay.
And, you know, what the film does is ask people to hold both his brutality and
(16:45):
his oppressive behavior and his tenderness and his humor and his kindness at the same time.
And this experience is is pushing people to stop thinking in binaries.
That was an epic answer. Did that make any sense? That did. That did.
And it's great because it leads into my next question.
(17:06):
Because when you tell stories, right, you're telling a story,
like the way you're talking about right now, you're telling a story of an individual.
How do you approach that kind of storytelling? How do you tell that kind of
story without making them seem, like you said, binary one way or the other? How do you do that?
I think, like, I mean, it's my job as a filmmaker, You're always looking for
(17:27):
what they're not saying, what the character is not saying. We call it subtext.
And so like when you spend a lot of time with a character, you start to understand
the subtext in their life.
So, you know, even if a certain sentence is coming out of their mouth,
you know that it actually means something else or it's linked to something else.
(17:51):
And so in spending a lot of time with these guys.
Yeah, so when you're spending a lot of time with these guys,
you get to understand the things that they're not saying,
and you get to understand body language and glances and things that enable you
to dive deeper into their character.
And then when you are filming, you're looking for these moments and making sure
(18:14):
that you're recording them, and that's how you build out a multidimensional character.
So first off, welcome, Monica. I know we had echoes going on there.
It's all right. It's in 3D, but audio. So the question I have for you is,
what challenges did you face during the production of this documentary?
Yeah, well, the production of the documentary was very challenging in so many ways.
(18:37):
First of all, you know, it was taking place, I guess, in what's described as an active war zone.
So it's very hard to, you know, get a crew mobilized there to go there yourself.
The regime in place was not recognized by the international community.
It's a rogue regime. the Taliban had taken over.
We had all sorts of issues filming in Iran, for instance, as well,
(18:58):
where, you know, there's not like a free press and it's extremely hard to,
you know, be a journalist there and make documentary content there.
So from like international travel to security issues to a lot of these challenges
were mainly what we were facing.
But, you know, the story was so extraordinary.
(19:20):
And Jordan had so much access in these places and so many connections with the
community and people who were there to facilitate and help that it made it all better.
My next question, I think, is really for both of you, because talking about
what you guys are both saying, and we'll start with you, Jordan, first.
What do you hope that the audience takes away from watching Transition?
Yeah, I mean, everything I said about the non-binary perspective on things, I think, you know,
(19:46):
when we have experiences of pushing our brains to be elastic and to get out
of these ideas and these,
like, you know, we think we know, and I want people to realize that we don't know.
Whatever we think we know, there is so much more to know and to have that be
(20:08):
our default position when we are meeting people or reading or watching films.
And you, Monica? It's a great question.
I think my answer is twofold. I think in general, I want an audience to take
away from our film the fact that it's OK to have complexity and to feel,
(20:29):
you know, different sort of feelings throughout the film and to explore several
issues and to feel you are in contradiction with your own beliefs,
question your kind of dogmas and your moral system, if you will. I think that's all OK.
Like, I think we have a tendency to really get used to films that are kind of
they tell you this is what it is and this is how you should feel the takeaway.
(20:53):
And I think it's OK to kind of explore and get lost in these things.
And also, like more on a personal level, I want people to take home the fact
that being a conflict reporter is extremely difficult, that we sacrifice a lot
personally to keep you all informed and that it is a worthy profession.
We need to know what's going on in the world because you know things matter
(21:14):
and they will keep happening so you know it's it's kind of a a love letter i
always say to the profession in
a way can i add one more thing to that also like uh you know one of the things
one of the reasons that i wanted to make this film in the first place was to
also let all of the little kids out there.
Know that guys we can do everything
(21:37):
and anything and i know life is real difficult like
but then you watch this film and you see that this person
was going through a really hard time and at the same time was still like being
a filmmaker living in afghanistan doing the whole thing and now i'm like the
happiest person i've ever met so i just want to remind all the queer kids out
there like don't worry everything's going to be so great i absolutely love that
(21:59):
and i think look that's such a great message, right?
Because the thing is, you know, we go through any impression is never good, right?
But then when we can see yourself through that, we realize, you know,
I'm just being me and that is who I want to be.
And that's all I ever need to be is who I want to be, right?
As long as you are not hurting anybody and you are spreading,
you know, happiness and love, that's all that matters, right?
(22:20):
And I think sometimes we forget that.
And I love the fact that you said that because you're right.
This younger generation needs to know that you're You're going to be okay.
You're going to get through it. And when we get to that point,
you're going to love who you are. And hopefully you agree with that entirely, Jordan.
So it's kind of a two-part question. The first one was for Jordan,
you know, what drew you to live in Afghanistan as you've been here for five years?
(22:44):
And then the second part of this question is there's a part in the movie where
you're kind of explaining like the hardships of the importance of journalism
and, you know, just toughing it through and everything.
Thing why and then and then also saying like you know once you you know you
move on more future journalists should come what what is the most importance
(23:05):
as far as continuing and showcasing like what is happening in afghanistan why
is it important to let everyone know.
I was living in Afghanistan because when I was a teenager, my mom,
who you also meet in the film, bloody legend that she is, she had been giving
me stuff to read about Afghanistan when I was a teenager,
(23:26):
which is quite impressive for a woman that is living in a very,
very small rural town in Australia back in the 90s.
For her to be giving her kid literature about Afghanistan to read was quite
remarkable. So I always had this magical image of this place in my mind.
And then when it was time to go, it was time to go. So I moved there.
(23:48):
But I'm going to let Mon answer the question about why it's important for journalists to do their job.
Well, I think, you know, Afghanistan is America's longest war, right?
So I think there's a general, you know, starting by that, we're all kind of
attracted or interested by the fact of, you know, America sort of went to this
(24:09):
country, invaded for so long.
And then where did everything go?
Where did all the money, how was it spent? And the regime change and the sort
of democracy building that was done sort of all crumbled and collapsed very
quickly as the Taliban took over.
So I think there's sort of like a discourse, a public discourse in the media
and by government of what's going on and how it's working.
(24:32):
And then it really contrasted to like, wait, what just happened there?
And what is the reason? So for us through Jordan to get such intimate access
to the Taliban that were this enemy,
abstract and extremely feared, but who we were able to know in a very different
way from like a military standpoint, which was America's approach,
was, I think, very interesting and very valuable.
(24:54):
I mean, all these people come up to us and say the footage.
Document like historic document of these men is absolutely
incredible you know afghanistan is really
one of the most misunderstood places in the world because
you know people didn't have access to to the country to like you know the real
country the real people and there was a very very narrow narrative about the
(25:19):
country and i think these kinds of stories that show a different version of Afghanistan,
the Afghanistan that we all fall in love with, like all of us that go there
absolutely fall in love with it.
I think it's a good reminder for people to remember that Afghanistan is a place
that's worth fighting for.
It's been a hot mess for the longest time and it wasn't paradise before. Now it's hell on earth.
(25:41):
But there is still so much worth fighting for there.
It's really the most amazing relationship I've ever had in that country.
That that aspect because i mean i'm sure it'll probably segue to the next question but,
it was just very interesting to see the way
it was presented because it very did to your point it gave
us a whole different perspective and it gave me a different level of empathy
(26:04):
to certain individuals within the the film and i'm like oh and it kind of like
you kind of said it a couple times it like kind of makes you teeter back and
forth like you know what they're about but then And also it's like,
there's compassion here at the same time,
but wait a minute. So it was very interesting to see that.
I, you know, what I love about that too, is that the, the concept that you said
(26:26):
of a compassion and fighting for, you know, your, your home.
Right. And I think in many ways, you know, no matter what the image may be on the outside, right.
It's still somebody's home, right? Like it's still somebody's place of where
they are and what they're dealing with.
And, you know, shedding and not enough films, I think, show the inside of what
people are dealing with in their home. You know what I mean?
In many ways, this film is like a, it's, it's a movie about misfits,
(26:49):
right? People trying to fit in where they want to fit in. Right.
And I love that because we, you know, even in this show, we always talk about
how do we how do we kind of grow from our turmoil? Right. Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do.
And I think you guys nail that in such a such a great way.
So my question for both of you is, what do you think the impact of this film
is going to do to have on audiences overall?
(27:11):
I mean, I don't know. I think the impact is going to vary.
I mean, loads of people have sort of come up to us in festivals and and reacted
in very different ways. case, I think ultimately what I think Americans will
take out of it is that it's very much a film about freedom and the lack of freedom.
So what happens when you are free and emancipated and you can be true to yourself
(27:32):
and you're good in your own skin,
which is Jordan's case, but, you know, the opposite with a country,
a population that's losing its freedoms bit by bit, you know,
like women most specifically, too.
I mean, they're really the ones that have been the most affected and they've
gone completely backwards. But, you know, it's not something that's happening in a vacuum.
You know, women in America, we have lost a lot of freedom, too,
(27:52):
with all the abortion debate, for instance.
And I think there is weirdly like parallels and it resonates with the American
public in that way, because it is a country that's founded to,
you know, pursue freedom, individual freedom.
And I think this film explores that in an interesting way, or at least we wanted
it to be an interesting way. Yeah, we hope it was interesting.
(28:14):
I think I mean everyone that has seen the film like I mean hundreds and thousands
of people have seen the film and I have not had,
one person speak negatively about the film.
And I think that is a real testimony to the skillful storytelling of the team, of the directors,
(28:37):
the producers, and especially the editors, to be able to tell a story that has
so much potential to be awful.
It has so much potential to to offend Afghans, to offend trans people,
to offend people of color.
It really has so much potential. But everybody that watches it is so moved by
(28:59):
the humanity of all of the characters.
And I think that was more of a self-promoting review than a comment on what
people are going to take away.
Wait, not my answer.
I think it's fine. I think I like it.
Yeah, that'll work. You earned that. You earned that ability to say that.
(29:21):
You know what I mean? And I think that's okay. Oh, my God.
At least this one's for Monica. It's like, how did you navigate? Actually, both of you.
How did you navigate the ethical considerations while documenting such personal stories?
That's a great question. And we get asked that a lot. I think, look, we navigated.
I guess the short version of the answer is that being a journalist,
(29:41):
like I'm kind of used to navigating these ethical minefields.
It's something that journalists are always thinking about.
And with Jordan, we very much discussed this, the ethical dilemmas the whole time.
The first thing that we did that I think was unique, and I'm happy we did it,
was that we put it out there transparently.
Jordan's going through this, the editorial team's going through this.
(30:01):
We want it out there for the audience to see that we were struggling with these ethical qualms.
And I think that is very honest, at least in the film.
We were always basically wondering how to present the Taliban in a way that
wasn't too humanizing because they've done awful things, but also had a lot
(30:21):
of questions like, should we be.
Telling them more about what we're doing?
I mean, we were very upfront with them. We're doing a story about Jordan and
documenting his life behind the scenes so they knew, but they didn't know about his identity.
And we thought it wasn't really their business. And ultimately,
this also would protect them with the hierarchy.
So yeah, the ethics were really at the forefront the whole time in our conversations.
(30:47):
Dilemmas are like really part of the key themes of the film.
And I just know that like for myself as, as a character and as the person who
was living through this, those ethical dilemmas were a part of our day-to-day life. And I.
You know, I think that's also what really makes the film interesting and unique
(31:09):
is that we have, like Mon said, we have made those ethical dilemmas a part of the film.
But I just want to say one thing that's very important to say,
like, you know, the real hero of this film is Teddy.
Ready he as an Afghan filmmaker to to
stay with me and to go and embed with that
Taliban unit and front up to them and make his relationships with them with
(31:32):
the the people that destroyed his country that have ruined his life it's uh
it's an incredible incredible strength and testimony to his character that he
was so committed to being a filmmaker and to to telling stories that he was
putting his own struggles aside.
So, you know, it's all good and well for Mon and I to talk about our ethical
(31:54):
dilemmas, but it's Teddy who had to go through way more than the rest of us.
Everything you guys have been saying has been having a general theme,
right? And I love that theme of how the story matters, right?
The story matters for everybody.
But what I wanted to really touch on before we wrap up here,
we talked about journalism and how journalists,
you know, it does, Because maybe I'm misseeing it, but it does seem like it's
(32:18):
becoming a slight dying profession and where people are not getting involved into it as much anymore.
And I want to point out that journalism is so important to everything that we
need in life right now, especially in the stories that we have going on overseas, even here at home.
We need journalists. And I think my, I guess my question about that is how do
(32:40):
we inspire more journalists, more young youth, young people to say,
I need to get out there and tell the story?
What do you think is that idea that could help spark that interest again?
I think that, I mean, I'm not a journalist, I'm a filmmaker,
but it's under the same umbrella.
I mean, guys, this is the most fun job you can possibly ever imagine.
(33:02):
Like getting up close and personal with people that you would never otherwise get to know and like,
traveling to places and discovering things and learning about yourself in the process.
It's absolutely the funnest job ever. And it's also a really creative job.
No, I love your question. And I think it's thank you for it. And you are right.
(33:24):
Journalism is in a total crisis. It's partly our fault, the media's fault.
But I want to tell young people or people in general, imagine a world where
everything you're fed content wise is like celebrity or or true crime, or these kind of things.
You're not going to know anything that's happening around the world.
And when bombs explode and missiles strike, and what's happening in Gaza,
(33:46):
for instance, you're not going to have a clue why.
We all have a right for information, and democracy is going to die without information.
So it is a very important fundamental right. And I hope that inspires people
to go out there and become journalists, and not just put stuff on YouTube or TikTok, whatever.
You know, it is a profession with editors and people who study and,
(34:08):
you know, have a lot of discussions and and almost like have a hierarchy of
the news. And that's there for a reason.
Like, we need to trust the institutions. And I know they failed us,
but the media institutions are important.
Rick, before we wrap up here, do you have any last questions?
The one thing I just want to ask real quick is for Jordan is because you mentioned
Teddy. How is Teddy doing?
(34:28):
So what's such a wonderful individual? visual and i
really love the story and i definitely felt for him especially a couple
scenes there that were a little a little a little hard because i know he you
know we're watching the news and what's getting updates and i saw the the you
know just the tragedy of his like you said his country and and whatnot and then
even when you were leaving for a brief moment and he didn't you know didn't
(34:51):
really know if you're going to come back or not i was so happy i was like.
Come back so like how is
he doing oh teddy he's um i saw him
he's living in uh living in in berlin i saw
him i hung out with him for a few days a couple of
weeks ago he's um he's okay he's he's working full-time and studying german
(35:12):
full-time so he's 24 7 seven days a week he's exhausted and he's not really
connecting so well with german culture but hopefully once he learns more of
the language, that will change.
I mean, Teddy never wanted to leave Afghanistan. He had dreams of starting a
production company and staying there.
But then the bloody Taliban came and it's not possible for anyone with a mind
(35:36):
or ambitions like Teddy's to stay there.
So he literally was forced to leave. He's not great, but he's making the most of it.
You know, like refugees, man, they don't want to leave their bloody home country.
They don't want to come and live in a
completely different culture and language and everything like
it's uh it's really tough they're damned if they stay and
(35:58):
damned if they go yeah that's that's it's
unfortunate right that you have to be put in that situation to to to
do so but i think the only thing we can always do is
stay positive right and find our way to to just you know like we said tell our
story some way right so as we wrap up here i just wanted to tell you guys both
thank you so much for your time thank you so much for being a part of this and
thank you for allowing us to share your story with so many people and i believe
(36:21):
that that this movie is going to touch a lot of people. It's going to inspire a lot of people.
And I believe that we need to get more people to watch it. So Jordan,
if you may tell them where they can find your movie right now, please. Yes, guys.
It's on like Amazon prime, Apple.
YouTube premium, Vimeo premium, and a whole bunch of like basically all of the
(36:47):
big digital streaming platforms in the U S and only in the U S at this point, you can rent it.
So go find it and watch it and have an experience.
Yes, please do. And I want to say something to Monica real fast.
Monica, representing journalism, just keep that fire burning.
(37:07):
Let's keep that flag burning.
Let's keep growing journalism and women in journalism.
Thank you so much. That's great. And minorities in journalism because I'm Latin.
Thank you so much Thank you for having us guys Great conversation,
(37:29):
Thank you Thank you guys Bye bye.
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