May 24, 2023 • 52 mins
How did a small team from Northern Ireland create a world-renowned service and build up an international clientele winning multiple national and global awards for their excellence?
Find out as Marco talks with Iain Wilson the CEO of IBC- Music and a Certified Inter-Cultural Intelligence Practitioner.
IBC-Music specializes in helping international musical instrument brands find manufacturing and distribution partners across the world. Just last month, IBC Music won The King’s Award for Enterprise, the most prestigious business award in the UK. It is one of only 148 organizations to be recognized.
On top of that, IBC helped one of its Canadian customers, Riversong Guitars, win the prestigious MMR Dealers' Choice Award for Acoustic Guitar of the year in 2022. IBC was the sourcing agent for the River Pacific P2P acoustic guitar, helping it beat leading international guitar brands.
You can reach out to Iain at iain@ibc-music.com
Learn more about what IBC Music does at: http://ibc-music.com/
In this episode, you will learn:
-- How to build and manage business relationships across the globe
-- How the international music industry works and the significant role relationships play in it.
-- The power of connecting people and the way IBC-Music has become so successful at it.
| Learn More about:
-- Building Deep Relationships that Cross Cultures (kwx.fyi/deep-relationships-crossing-cultures)
-- Whole Systems Thinking (kwx.fyi/multiplier-effect)
-- High Performing Intercultural Teaming (kwx.fyi/team-development)
-- Looking for a book to take your cultural agility to the next step, check out the Ultimate Intercultural Question Book brought to you by KnowledgeWorkx.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Iain Wilson (00:00):
Everything is done around relationship. I would say
that that is true in the UK andright across right across the
world. And particularly in Asia,a lot is done around the dinner
table, around spending timetogether about learning about
(00:23):
people's families and theirchildren and what's important to
them in life, not just, let'sget in, let's get the deal done,
let's get out of here.
Marco Blankenburgh (00:41):
Welcome to the cultural agility podcast,
where we explore the stories ofsome of the most advanced
intercultural practitioners fromaround the world, to help you
become culturally agile, andsucceed in today's culturally
complex world. I'm your host,Marco Blankenburg, international
director of knowledge works,where every day we help
(01:02):
individuals and companiesachieve relational success in
that same complex world.
Welcome, everyone today, to thisnext episode of our podcast. And
today, I have Ian Wilson withus, a global businessman,
entrepreneur, out of the out ofthe box, or I would even say
(01:27):
beyond the box thinker. And Ihad the privilege of meeting in
in 2012. And he has an amazingstory to tell. And that's why
I'm excited to have him on ourpodcast today. So in welcome.
Thank you for joining us.
Iain Wilson (01:44):
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you very much.
Marco Blankenburgh (01:46):
So Ian, before we go into your story,
I'd love to give you the chanceto introduce yourself to our
audience today.
Iain Wilson (01:54):
Okay, well, I was born in Belfast in Northern
Ireland, which will becomesignificant perhaps in some of
the later questions when we dealwith culture and various things.
And I grew up here, enjoyed lifein Belfast, and was fortunate
(02:15):
that I had the opportunity frommaybe when I was 15, to start
traveling and to interact withother nations and and other
people. And from a very youngage, I have interest in
business, actually completelyillegal now. But from the age of
eight, I started working just alittle part time job brushing up
(02:36):
sawdust in a butcher store, thenstarted delivering newspapers
and milk and lots of differentthings to earn money. And by the
age of 11, I had purchased myfirst black and white
television, back in the day thatcost me 52 pounds back then,
which was a lot of money for alate 11 year old. We're going
(02:57):
back 40 years now or more. Soyeah, so that that gave me a
taste of business, a taste ofearning money and working hard.
And from there things began togrow.
Marco Blankenburgh (03:12):
It's amazing that at that early age, you're
already had that businessentrepreneurial mindset. You
also say, from 15th, you startedtraveling. So it seems that that
might have been the earlier daysof being engaged into culturally
in our world. Tell us a bit moreabout that. What What was that
(03:33):
like?
Iain Wilson (03:33):
Actually, if the reason I mentioned Belfast in
Northern Ireland was that myintercultural development was
very much formed as a childbecause in Belfast we had what I
was born in 1967. In 1969, wehad what were called the
(03:56):
troubles begin. And then realityit was terrorism under another
name. We had a lot of bombings,a lot of shootings, people from
two sides of a community thatwere fighting against each
other. So I grew up effectively,being told that the other side
were the enemy. And then, but atthe same time growing up around
(04:22):
other people of other religionsthat were absolutely my friends,
and were by no means my enemy.
So it was a real dichotomy ofculture, growing up and
understanding, if you like thetwo divides here and Northern
Ireland, but I always had thedesire to learn about other
cultures to go see what washappening in the rest of the
(04:45):
world realizing that in somerespects, we were living in a
bubble here. And there was adifferent world out there where
perhaps not everybody hatedthemselves or was wanting to You
know, shoot them, shoot theother side or whatever. So I, my
first trip was actually with abunch of young people. And we
(05:07):
went to France. And when I was15, again, I was the cutoff
point was 16. But I managed toget special dispensation to go
on that trip. And I was able topay for that trip myself,
because I was still working withall those jobs right through.
And fact until I was 22, doing abunch of different part time
(05:31):
jobs to earn money. So I paidfor that trip myself, and then
had the opportunity to interactwith a lot of young French kids
and spend a few weeks in thelegal area of France. And that
gave me a real understandingthat there are other cultures
(05:54):
out there that are different.
But in many respects, we'recomplementary. And in many
respects, we have much more incommon than we do the divides
us. And so useful, that was auseful thing to take back then
to Northern Ireland, as well. So
Marco Blankenburgh (06:16):
yeah, it sounds like some of the voices
around you. You know, the otherparty is the enemy. It sounds
like there was a what we thencall, you know, more of a
cultural critic narrative. Andwhat you just mentioned about
going to France, you discovered,hey, being a cultural loner,
allows me to explore the worldand meet people and discover
(06:38):
that we're actually not sodifferent, and that we can be
friends and connect acrosscultures.
Iain Wilson (06:43):
Yeah, and that was very important lesson for
somebody, you know, in NorthernIreland at that time to see that
there was another world outthere. I unfortunately, lived
through many bombings, I went toschool right in the center of
Belfast, when we finish thismeeting, I'm going to Chamber of
Commerce event that is in ahotel in the centre of Belfast,
(07:08):
which at one point in time hadthe title of being the most
bombed hotel in the world. Sothings are very different now.
Thanks, thank goodness, youknow, and that we Belfast in
Northern Ireland is muchdifferent place. So I'm really
grateful for the peace accordthat we had in 1998. And how
(07:29):
that is held now, having justcelebrated 25 years of that
three weeks ago. So that's,that's, that's a positive.
Marco Blankenburgh (07:39):
Yeah. And you already mentioned that you
were an entrepreneur at heartfrom a young age. Can you give
us just the fast track intowhere you are today with the
with IVC music?
Iain Wilson (07:55):
Yeah, I mean, effectively, when I was 16, I
had a serious car accident,knocked my pelvis out by around
45 degrees. I got a an insurancepayout. And at that time, I
bought myself a really niceguitar. Because I was playing a
little bit of music. I boughtmyself a lot and guitar and
(08:15):
Irish made instrument with themoney and started learning
guitar playing more. And startedreally in the late 80s. Getting
alongside the guys allowingguitars, I attended some music
shows for them in Germany. I didsome research for them into
(08:36):
markets such as France, Spain,and Scandinavia to try to help
them develop business. But atthat time, they couldn't afford
to employ me full time I wasreally doing it as a student to
help them out while I was doingbusiness studies. And then, in
(08:56):
1993, Loudon finally got to thepoint where they could employ me
as a European sales manager andI joined them initially European
sales manager and MChem,worldwide sales manager within
about six months and developtheir business across the globe,
from 1993 right through to 2006.
But also through that period,another US company had asked me
(09:22):
to come to do some work for themlab and guitarist and acoustic
guitar. Another US company whowere into electric guitars,
called Parker guitars, asked meto come and do some work for
them. And that lasted about ninemonths. And I had actually funny
story set up a tradeshow boothfor them in Frankfurt at the
(09:44):
major show, guitar show. And themorning of the show, I got a
call from the CEO to say yourservices are no longer required.
We just sold the company. And sohe's like, Oh, great. But that
led to one of the owners ofParker guitars was Larry
(10:04):
Fishman, who makes guitarpickups he that asked me to join
that company, who worked for foras a consultant, developing
their international sales aswell as setting up and managing
their OEM operation in China. Sothat opened up a whole wealth of
intercultural experience intoterritory and a country that
(10:30):
initially I knew nothing aboutand had to learn very quickly
how to interact with a what wasfor me a very foreign culture,
and very foreign language. Imean, I spoke, I studied French
at school, hence my interest. Iactually lived in Germany for
one year when I was studyingbusiness in 1989. So I spoke
(10:52):
some German. And then later inlife, I lived in Italy for 10
years, so I picked up Italian,but Chinese was completely
foreign, and not a Latin basedlanguage that you can think of
quite, you know, quite easily.
(11:12):
So the interculturalintelligence learning curve in
China was was steep, have tostay and challenging at times.
But it's, it's a great nation,country that I love. And in
fact, we'll head back there insummertime. And in later life, I
(11:33):
ended up marrying a Chinese ladythat in fact, I met in Belfast
and not in China. Now I have twokids.
Marco Blankenburgh (11:42):
Now, people who are not familiar with the
music industry, we have music asone common passion. You made it
your profession as well, butloud and guitars in my days were
born in the same year 67. So inmy days, Eric Clapton, for
(12:02):
instance, was allowed in Playa.
Are there any other famouspeople that actually today play,
play loud and guitars for thosethat are not initiated in the in
the music industry?
Iain Wilson (12:13):
I should put a disclaimer in here that I
stopped working for them in2006. But I they're a great
company and I still have greatrelationship with them. So
probably the most famous rightnow would be Ed Sheeran. Right.
And in fact, they have done acollaboration with Ed Sheeran.
So they have Loudon, guitars atthe very high end of the market,
(12:34):
and then Sheeran guitars as amore affordable guitar. So if
you watch any Ed Sheeranperformance, you will see him
playing either on the Loudoun orSheeran.
Marco Blankenburgh (12:47):
Right, right. Now, you already
mentioned that living in China,marrying into China steep
learning curve interculturally.
So in 2012, US you joined ourintercultural intelligence
certification. And I'm justcurious at that point, what drew
you to, to that, thatcertification? Why why did you
(13:12):
join,
Iain Wilson (13:16):
I guess I had been a reasonable amount of
experience both on holidays andbusiness in European countries,
I had since 2003, startedtraveling into China, although I
didn't do any business therereally until 2007, or eight. And
(13:38):
I was keen just to get a betterunderstanding of doing business
with with other nations and someof the pitfalls and some of the
things to look out for whenyou're dealing with people from
from different cultures. Havinggrown up in this bubble, I felt,
(14:00):
and I still feel even today thatyou always need to learn more,
you'll always need to interactmore you never stop learning.
And dealing with people fromother nations, there are certain
advocates that you need toadhere to, there are certain
things that you should andshouldn't do. And they can turn
(14:25):
your business from being verysuccessful or into massive
failure. So it's important tolearn them and hence my
involvement in the interculturalintelligence certificate. And I
would love to come back at somestage in the future and do more
and interact again on
Marco Blankenburgh (14:45):
that. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Now, when
you think about I know it's along time ago was 2012. But
learning that frameworklearning, a way to quantify why
people behave the way they do,learning, you know, more in a
structured way to try and adjustyour behavior to create more
(15:08):
successful relationships. And asyou mentioned, hopefully also
successful business which youhave done fantastically well.
How did that impact you joiningthat, and then starting to apply
it,
Iain Wilson (15:22):
I guess the biggest thing that I had to learn was to
step back and evaluate before Iopen my mouth, and understand
the context in which I wasdealing. And then I'm gonna have
a fairly quick thinker, but atthe same time, not necessarily
say the first thing that cameinto your mind because it could
(15:44):
offend somebody or could betaken the wrong way. And
particularly for somebody whereEnglish is their second
language, then you have to bedoubly careful in how you
express things, and how youcommunicate things. So that the,
the understanding of that ofthat person is correct. And they
(16:08):
take actually, on board whatyou're trying to say. So that's
one of the biggest things Iwould say. And one of the tech
takeaways that I had from fromthe course is like, evaluate
first, who's in the room, whoyou're dealing with, who you're
talking to, and understand lifefrom their perspective, and
(16:30):
particularly in, in dealing withAsian territories, the hierarchy
of who you're, you're dealingwith, you know, and are you
talking to the right person, youknow, are you? Are you talking
to the translator or aninterpreter or, you know, the
office staff that don't haveinfluence, so understanding, you
(16:50):
know, positioning at a table ata banquet at the meal, who sits
where, why and how those sortsof things are good to learn, if
you want to deal with othercultures that that you're not
familiar with. In the UK, nobodycares, you sit down the table
you eat. That's not the case inChina.
Marco Blankenburgh (17:09):
Yeah, those are great insights. And as I
listened to you, it's it alsoseems that, you know, you want
to get the deal done, which ismore the transactional side. But
you can't, you might get onedeal done. But you can't sustain
that unless you have invested inbuilding healthy relationships.
Iain Wilson (17:28):
Everything is done around relationship. And I would
say that that is true. In theUK, and right across, right
across the world. Andparticularly in Asia, a lot is
done around the dinner table,around spending time together
(17:49):
about learning about people'sfamilies and their children and
what's important to them inlife. Not just let's get in,
let's get the deal done. Let'sget out of here.
Marco Blankenburgh (18:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Now you're you're working withquite a complex web of
relationships quite a fast Itspans multiple continents. For
people who have no idea aboutwhat happens behind the scenes
in the in the musical industryin the manufacturing and
distribution of musicalinstruments. Can you in like in
(18:24):
60 seconds for uninitiated,explain what you do and how I
IVC music adds value into themusic industry?
Iain Wilson (18:37):
Yeah, so I basically turned myself to make
it easy for people to understandas an international matchmaker.
So for brands in the musicindustry, they will come to me
and say we want to make a guitaror ukulele, a new drum, a piano
at this price point, or we wantto design something new, and we
(18:58):
need to find somewhere to haveit made. They may have a little
bit of experience themselves,they may not. And we help
basically match them to theright manufacturing partners
around the world. And we use ourteam to manage that entire
production process for them. AndQC the instruments etc before
(19:19):
they get shipped to literallyanywhere in the globe, around
the globe. And then the otherside of my business is that some
of those companies that I workfor from the sourcing
perspective will also engage usas consultants to help them
build our international salesnetwork. In the past that would
(19:39):
have been traditionally throughjust distributors for the main
part. But now, post pandemicobviously the world has changed
and we have now what's calledomni channel distribution. So
you can go through disturbdistributors you can go through
agents direct to retail Now isbecoming more and more popular.
(20:03):
And then of course, you have themassive online resellers,
whether that's JD in, in China,or Amazon and the West, and like
a good person on the BBC wouldsay there are other providers
available. So many, many, manymore. So we help people find the
(20:27):
right route to marketeffectively,
Marco Blankenburgh (20:29):
right, right. Now, throughout the ages,
people who make musicalinstruments take a lot of pride
in doing that, which then alsotypically leads to not having
good words to say, for musicalinstruments that are made in
other countries, for instance,you mentioned China, which other
(20:54):
countries, do you havemanufacturing happening
Iain Wilson (20:59):
right now in Eastern Europe and Czech
Republic and China, in Vietnam,in India, they, and Indonesia,
they would be the main ones aswell, as well as the UK, of
course. And we've startedlooking at some manufacturing
now even back in the US in theUS. And there are both tax and
(21:23):
political reasons for that forsome of those for some of those
companies. So they would be themain areas that we would be
manufacturing in right now. Butthe world changes, you know, in
the past, it was Japan, Japanwas the place when things in the
West became too expensive,people were looking for cheaper
(21:44):
labor option. At the very start.
That was Japan, Japan becamemore expensive and move to South
Korea, South Korea became moreexpensive, the vast majority of
those people moved to Taiwan orinto directly into China, then
China is becoming more expensivenow. And also, in certain
aspects, Trump introduced a 25%tariff on goods coming from
(22:12):
China into the US. So thataffected a lot of US companies.
So we have spent probably mostof the pandemic time shifting
and pivoting US companies inparticular, either completely or
partly out of China into othermanufacturing areas. Now, and
yes, there is always snobberyabout, you know, you know,
(22:37):
nothing good can come out ofChina, but they said that about
Japan at the start, and frankly,the Chinese can make guitars as
well as anybody in any othercountry and have gotten much
better at it a much moreefficient data is added, as you
would expect, you know, from aChinese manufacturer.
Marco Blankenburgh (23:01):
Yeah. So you're saying that there's been
a shift in how people perceivequality produced in a certain
country?
Iain Wilson (23:10):
Yes, there has been a shift, it does take time to be
fair. And at the start, the, youknow, Japanese production wasn't
great compared to US production.
Same thing for for South Korea.
And the same for China. And ittakes everybody time to learn
their craft. And building amusical instrument is a craft.
(23:31):
Certain parts of it couldperhaps be done by computer or
CNC, but not very much. So it'sreally very much hands on and it
takes time to learn that.
Marco Blankenburgh (23:41):
So it sounds like that there is a need for
knowledge transfer in order toto, to to increase that quality
or reliability respect for forthe instrument maker. How do you
get involved in in thatknowledge transfer? And how does
the industry support that?
Iain Wilson (24:01):
Well, even with some of my staff, I mean, my
right hand man, David Graham,was the production manager at
Loudoun guitars when I was theinternational sales manager, we
both left in 2006 and set up mymy company at that point. And
even then, they've got involvedin training our team in China so
(24:26):
that even in the very earlydays, they had very high
standards for what we wouldexpect of a guitar or a ukulele
or whatever it was to go out thedoor. That was simply
transferring knowledge. The riskis always you think, Okay, I'm
transferring this knowledge willthey then go and take that
(24:49):
knowledge and do their ownthing? They might on some have.
But the reality is, they don'thave the connections that we
have in the rest of the world.
So I would take them a lot ofmoney and a lot of effort to
develop those. So I don't see itas a big risk, frankly.
Marco Blankenburgh (25:08):
Now, one of the things you just mentioned
the tariffs for importing fromChina into the US. And one of
the reasons behind that is thatsome some people in in, in the
business world and in politicsclaim that, oh, we've sold the
farm we've, we've, we've allowedmanufacturing to go abroad. And
(25:28):
as a result, we lose our jobs.
How does that play out in themusic industry? You mentioned,
of course, price, and laborcharges are hugely important.
But how do you see that play outin your work,
Iain Wilson (25:43):
there is a theoretical desire for
manufacturing to come back tothe UK or to the US or whatever.
But when companies begin to lookat the cost of the real cost of
doing that, they realize that amaybe 499 guitar coming out of
somewhere in Asia would all of asudden have to become a 1499
(26:03):
guitar. And it takes them into acompletely different sphere of
the market that then as you goup or down the permit, depending
how you want to look at it.
There are less and less buyersfor that. Right. So So I guess,
there there's this theoreticaldesire to bring things back to
(26:25):
countries for manufacturing. Butwhen you look at the reality,
it's not always often not thecase that it can happen.
Marco Blankenburgh (26:39):
I didn't have this question on on, on my
list. But as we were talking,you mentioned COVID, earlier on,
has as COVID resulted in morepeople getting into music or
less, what would have you seen,
Iain Wilson (26:54):
actually, we have seen that kind of boom and bust
if you like, we saw a massiveboom through the pandemic,
because people were at home. Alot of governments like in the
UK, were giving up furloughmoney for people to stay at
home, paying their wages forthem to do nothing, and nobody
could travel for the most part.
So people were spending money onHobbies, and not just guitars,
(27:15):
but other hobbies. Like youcould not get a fishing rod in
the UK, for example, duringCOVID time and a lot of you
know, bicycles and other thingsjust went crazy because people
were home and we're looking forthings to do. So guitars and
ukuleles in particular that wereeasy to pick up and learn. were
sold by in the masses during theCOVID period that has since
(27:41):
tailed off and cooled off. Andcurrently unfortunately, there's
an oversupply in the market thatwe're having to work through in
2023, but hopefully, hopefullyeven itself out again in 2024.
Marco Blankenburgh (27:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Now you could probably tell manystories about building up those
relationships, building trustacross cultures, looking at
quality assurance, the wholeprocess of giving people
feedback, if they might not havedone such a great job, how to
adjust that. Could you justhighlight a few stories where
(28:20):
your intercultural skills, yourability to build relationships
across cultures have reallyallowed you to move forward
better than most?
Iain Wilson (28:34):
Yeah, okay. I mean, I guess a funny story to start
off with I visited a small, nota small city because Nolan, and
that's more or less, a smallercity in China called Tai Chi at
one time. And I was staying intheir so called International
Hotel, but I think I wasprobably the only international
(28:56):
person that ever stayed there.
And I was sitting in the lobbywaiting for the driver to come
pick me up and take me to thefactory. And I had a little
school child come up andactually start poking me. And I
looked like I was an alien whojust landed from Mars. And I
find that quite funny, because Iknew they'd probably never seen
(29:20):
another foreign or particularly,you know, white person in their
life. So they went away, Ithought nothing more of it. And
within five minutes, almost theentire school was surrounding
me. And it was like a lifetimeexperience for them. And I
(29:40):
thought, you know, this, whilewhile it's funny, it's also
important for kids because italso shows them that it's
possible to interact with otherpeople from from other nations,
even if you don't know knowthem, even if you're a different
color, even if you look strangeif you're fat compared to them.
I'm going to Hawaii, you know,whatever. So it's, I thought
(30:01):
that that was a very interestingperspective, you know, from one
of my early, early trips, inChina. And I guess from dealing
from a business perspective,again, it comes down to
understanding the culture thatyou're in, if you're selling
pianos, for example, you arenormally suited and booted,
(30:24):
you've got a tie on your, youknow, your three piece suit, you
look very dapper. And you willgo into a meeting dressed like
that, if you do that, in theguitar industry, people will
take you incredibly, you know,think, you know, this is a
weirdo, this, this guy's nuts,you know. And again, it comes
down to understanding youraudience and understanding the
(30:47):
culture of who you're dealingwith. And, you know, for your
listeners, I really encouragethem to, to look at who they're
going to be meeting, look at whothey're going to be dealing
with, and understand what evenwhat is the right dress, you
know, to meet to meet thosepeople in, because you can cut
(31:09):
somebody off immediately byturning up in the wrong type of
shirt or the wrong color orsomething that that's very
offensive to their culture. Sounderstanding those small
initia. And detail is importantand do a little bit of research
(31:29):
before you start traveling forinternational business,
understand, where you know whereyou're going, where you're going
to who you're dealing with whatthe type of culture is. And when
I started traveling, therewasn't that much on the Internet
back then. But I can tell you,now you can get everything that
you need. There and through, ofcourse, one of your courses and
(31:53):
understanding cultures, youknow, around the world, and how
to and how to deal with that. Sothat's just a couple of little
snippets that I would give toyour listeners, and I've dealt
with, in I've been in SouthAmerica, which is a very lively,
vibrant music, you know, into alot of dance and salsa, etc. Or
(32:17):
you can go into a moreconservative sort of Western
European German style sort ofmusic into the old Papa, what we
call the old Papa, traditionalGerman world, and you've been
Dutch we'd understand a littlebit of that. And then what or
(32:38):
you can go into the sort ofScandinavian heavy rock or you
know, that that sort of stuff.
So, again, it's understandingwho you're dealing with, what
type of musician you're dealingwith, what type of audience what
type of business you're dealingwith, and how. And that applies
(33:00):
to an understanding, then thechannels that you're working
with, know if, if you're goingin to see a Google and you wear
a suit, probably they'll look atyou weirdly, too, you know,
because that's not theirculture, or Amazon, or, you
know, whoever. Whereas if you'regoing in to see some top level
executives somewhere, maybe it'sthe right thing to wear a tie.
Marco Blankenburgh (33:23):
Yes. Yeah.
And you're raising somethingthat's, that's really crucial.
It's not just the culturesomebody comes from, but it's
also the culture of theorganization. And keeping that
in mind. You mentioned dresscode, some people dress as an
expression of who they are. ButI also hear you say that you
dress in order to build thatbridge of relationship that is
(33:45):
equally important, or sometimeseven more important.
Iain Wilson (33:50):
Yeah, particularly if you know, if you're going in
from a business perspective,last thing you want to do is
offend somebody by what you're,what you're wearing, or what
you're what you're doing. So youreally have to be careful and
understanding other people'scultures.
Marco Blankenburgh (34:07):
And you've, you've mentioned that over time
you build you buildrelationships with a number of
people across specially Asia,and you mentioned Europe as
well. Manufacturers, how manymanufacturers are you in total,
working with?
Iain Wilson (34:25):
We're dealing probably across the world with
about 20 Differentmanufacturers, right. And then,
with about 120 or 130 differentroutes to market, whether that
be through distributors, agentsor direct to retail, or some of
(34:47):
the major online channels I'vetalked to talk about before
Marco Blankenburgh (34:52):
and listening to your it sounds like
you you sort of need toculturally be on your toes. Too
much every day, because you youmove from one culture to another
at the same time. In ourcertification, we keep on
hammering on this that, youknow, we always say the average
(35:12):
Indonesia and the averageChinese doesn't really exist or
a general things you can sayabout a certain culture. But it
sounds like the type of work youdo you need to go much more
granular and really get to knowyou mentioned slowing down,
doing your research,understanding the why of
(35:32):
somebody's behavior. Could youmaybe give an example where, you
know, the average Indonesian orthe average Chinese doesn't
necessarily always apply, whereyou had to really, you know, go
to a deeper level to understandthe other party or the person
you're working with?
Iain Wilson (35:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you take Indonesia, for example,
the interesting thing about theguitar factories and a lot of
electronic factories, even inIndonesia, is that they're owned
by South Koreans. So, on the onehand, you're dealing with an
Indonesian workforce, for themost part, what you're dealing
(36:13):
with a South Korean management.
So they're there in itself, youhave two cultures coming
together, that are verydifferent. You have two,
possibly three religions comingtogether and respecting those
within the factory and givingpeople the time they need to
(36:34):
express that, that that's beeninteresting. And looking at how
the management style of that ofthose South Koreans, they have
had to adapt to the expressionand to the to the work rate of
(36:56):
Indonesians, Indonesians arevery, very hard working. But
this is a massivegeneralization, of course, but
they're not as fast as asChinese tend to be. They work at
a slower pace, but they'repretty accurate at what they
have what they do. Sounderstanding that setting
(37:17):
expectations, and the whole areaof hierarchy and respect comes
into comes into play again, sotake me as a Westerner than
going into that situation,trying to understand how I get
the best out of a South Koreanmanagement, while at the same
(37:39):
time trying to influence anIndonesian workforce to get the
best of the quality that Irequire, can be quite, can be
quite challenging. And there aretimes quite frankly, when I've
had to get my hands dirty myselfand just get in there and, you
know, generally show people howthings can or should be done on
(38:02):
some of our products. And if wehave issues and quality issues,
then showing them the worstthing you can do is make an
Asian you know, lose face. Sothere's no point shouting at
them no point, you know,disgracing them and even gently
in front of the rest of theircomrades. So you've got to
(38:23):
actually get in there andphysically be the person showing
the best way to do things ratherthan criticizing. And I spent
the best part of 10 days in avery hot and sweaty factory in
Surabaya, in Indonesia, on theon the floor, showing people
how, you know, to do things, thebest way for the products that
(38:47):
we needed to achieve for our,for our customer, that I worked
in a sound studio in thatfactory, which had no air
conditioning, no fan, it was,you know, crazy, you know, 3940
degrees like living in Dubaitype thing, you know, the whole
time but on the floor with noair conditioning, and actually
(39:08):
visited that factory about twomonths ago. And I was glad to
say that in that same studio,they now have air conditioning.
So I wouldn't have a fear ofgoing back. But again, it it's
it's showing people how you knowhow to do things better rather
than criticizing them for notreaching your level. That's
(39:30):
that's very different, perhapsto a Western thinking in many in
many times and even ahierarchical Asian thinking.
Marco Blankenburgh (39:43):
But that also requires a certain mindset
where you need to you need toslow it down you need to
actually invest time, but Ialmost I would also say it does
require a certain amount ofhumility to to to invest at that
level into the rules. Sure,
Iain Wilson (40:01):
yeah, well, I mean, even, even if I take China, I
mean, I started traveling toChina in 2003. But I didn't
actually start doing businessuntil around 2008. That's a
massive investment. Yeah. Butthat investment on that time was
using doing exactly that it wasbuilding relationships with the
right partners, many of whom arestill my partners today, because
(40:26):
I had invested time, many ofwhom that would jump through
great hoops to ensure that mycustomers are happy, even some,
for Christmas business, I'veeven flown in containers of
guitars, to make sure they don'tlose the business, rather than
putting on a ship. So, you know,that's the sort of relationship
(40:48):
that can only be developed withtime.
Marco Blankenburgh (40:52):
And if I can just put you on the spot, if, if
you can think of one of thosepartners that you've worked
with, for so long. If if I wouldask them, who's in tell me, you
know, what is it like to workwith him? What would they say?
If you can think of maybe oneperson, what would he or she
say?
Iain Wilson (41:11):
I think he would say I'm a straight shooter, I,
you know, I tell. I tell it asit is, but I am also fair, I
will work with the factory totry to solve issues, I'll work
with my customers, also to tryto solve issues if they come up.
And even today, one of ourcustomers in the UK, checked a
(41:33):
couple of guitars, he wasn'toverly happy. So I flew one of
my guys out there to check itout. That's an investment.
That's his time. That's my, youknow, my money. But I want this
customer, at the end to be happywith the guitars and to be happy
with the experience of workingwith IBC.
Marco Blankenburgh (41:54):
Now, recently, you had an exciting
thing happened, you actually wonthe king's award for enterprise
in the UK. And that's still inthe press. I was I was just
checking it out this morninghere. And I thought, Wow, this
keeps on going if people. Yes,so. So what was it like? I think
(42:16):
there's 150 companies that getthe award, if I'm not mistaken,
it
Iain Wilson (42:20):
was 48 companies, the award itself has been run
for I think around 57 years bythe Queen. This is actually the
first year for obvious reasonsthat became the Kings award. We
actually applied for the wardtwo days before the King, the
Queen passed away. And it's afairly arduous process that you
(42:43):
have to go through to be honest,to get to the point where you're
even shortlisted and consideredas being on the shortlist. And
then you have a massive waitingperiod, because they always
announce it on the Queen'sbirthday in April. And we were
(43:04):
made aware of it in early Aprilthat we had won. And it was it's
a massive honor and a massiveprestige for us as a company,
there's absolutely no cashinvolved, unfortunately, but you
couldn't buy the the price andthe prestige that it brings. And
(43:24):
we get, we're permitted to usethe royal kings enterprise
symbol for the next five yearson our communication. And you
will see different things comingup over this year that will link
IBC with with the Kings awardand September I will be 30 years
(43:46):
in the business. So there'll bemore more things happening over
the course of this year. And Ialso get to go to Buckingham
Palace at some point and toattend a reception there either
with the king or somebody elsefrom from the royal family.
That's that was actually themost disappointing part from my
(44:09):
wife. Because in the past, it'salways been two people that were
allowed to attend. But sinceCOVID, they've changed it to one
person from the business. So mywife is somewhat stoked about
that. But that nothing tonothing we can do. So we're
going to go as a family, we'regoing to take five days in
London, celebrated together as afamily but only myself
(44:32):
unfortunately, I'll get to getgo to Buckingham Palace this
time.
Marco Blankenburgh (44:35):
Right? And when you think of, you know, 30
years in the industry you're apretty level headed guy. But it
is a significant award toreceive. So so how does it
impact you? What does it whatdoes it communicate to you?
Iain Wilson (44:54):
Well, it communicates the hard work that
myself and my team have put inover over the years, you know,
30 years in any industry is whatyou call longevity. It's, you
know, we've stuck it out, we'vestuck out the, you know, the
crash in 2008. And, you know,the, the pandemic, and you know,
(45:17):
we're, we're still alive, we'restill kicking, we're still
trying to develop the businessand take it to higher places
even. And, in fact, my wifeasked me this question at
breakfast this morning. And shemade this comment. And she said,
You know, I really hope thisisn't the pinnacle of your
career, but it's just the start.
And when you look at that 30years in, you kind of go yes, we
(45:39):
have achieved a lot. The prizeand the award is an amazing
accolade. And I can'tunderestimate that. But I'm 55
and I no means done, you know, Ihave a lot more than I want to
achieve in my life. And I intendto stay in the music industry
and, and do that and developproducts and manufacturing and
(46:05):
international distribution formany customers around the world.
Marco Blankenburgh (46:13):
Now, there's a lot of, there's a lot of talk
in, in learning and developmentspace around global leadership.
One of our people in our networkdid some research on how many
competencies and skills havebeen identified that supposably
make you a better global leader,his list ended at 664
(46:37):
competencies and skills, whichis a humongous list. You you've
you've really succeeded intraversing the globe and turning
that into a successful business,being culturally agile as a as a
business leader and anintrapreneur. What would you say
to other leaders? What? What dothey need?
Iain Wilson (46:59):
Yeah, never think that you've arrived. Because
that is your that's your signalthat you're going into reverse?
Actually, when you are, you'regoing to stagnate. So, for
example, last year, I investedtime in what was called a help
(47:20):
to grow management program atthe Bill Clinton School of
Management at Queen's Universityin Belfast. Now, that was a time
that in reality I didn't have,but you never have time to
study, and you never have timeto do certain things. But I
(47:40):
always believe that learning isimportant. And understanding how
you can do things better isimportant. I'm working on a
weekly basis, for example, withan action coach that is helping
in certain aspects of thebusiness, holding me to account
to make sure certain thingshappen. And again, it's a
(48:03):
learning process, it's aninvestment it's taking to invest
the money in paying for a coach,it's investing time. But it has
us, you know, you've seen andI've seen with this award, it's
paid massive, massive benefits.
So I would say to any globalleader, don't think that you've
made it and also learn andinvest time to interact with
(48:25):
with other global leaders too,whether that's in one of your
programs in Dubai, whether it'syour local Chamber of Commerce,
the Federation of SmallBusiness, or whatever it is, you
know, take time to network withother like minded people that
you can rub against, that youcan learn from, it might be a
completely different industry.
(48:50):
You can still learn things fromfrom other people pick up little
snippets of of information, oryou think you know what, I never
thought of that. And that'sputting yourself in those
positions, is the best way tobetter yourself, I believe as a
global leader.
Marco Blankenburgh (49:11):
Wonderful.
So you already mentioned at 55,you're not done. Your wife said
to you, I hope this is not thepinnacle. What what are you
dreaming of?
Iain Wilson (49:23):
I want to take the business to a much higher level.
So I want to be the company thatis known in the music industry
as being your best partner forboth sourcing on an
international trade. And, youknow, I have aspirations and
dreams of developing some of myown brands at some some time and
(49:46):
when the time's right and that'ssomething that I'm actively
looking at and always have inthe back of my mind. It's always
one of those things. Well, youknow, you spend a lot of your
life advising consult holdingfor other companies, how about
you do it yourself for yourselfand that's always, always
playing in the back of my mind.
So I'm I'm strongly consideringvarious areas right now as to
(50:10):
how that could happen.
Marco Blankenburgh (50:13):
Fantastic.
Well, I think we could talk forhours, especially hearing more
of your, your stories, yourbusiness stories, working across
the globe, thank you so much forfor joining us, and for
inspiring us because you, youare truly a well seasoned global
business entrepreneur. And it'sbeautiful to hear how you've
(50:39):
turned that into adding valueacross the whole value chain
within the music industry. Sothank you for for telling your
story. And yeah, it's
Iain Wilson (50:50):
been great to talk again and contact again. And I
really hope that I genuinelyhope that I can come back to
Dubai and get involved in one ofyour courses again soon.
Marco Blankenburgh (51:00):
Fantastic.
And when people want to get incontact with Ian, we will share
the contact information in thenotes section of this podcast.
So you want to get connectedwith with em or with with ABC
music, then find those detailsin the notes section. Thank you
so much for joining us for thisepisode of the cultural agility
(51:20):
podcast. If you enjoyed today'sepisode, share it with someone.
Best way to help us out is byleaving a review on your
favorite podcast, app orchannel. Force forward and
recommend this podcast to peoplearound you. As always, if any of
the topics we discussed todayintrigue you, you will find
links to articles discussingthem in greater depth in the
(51:43):
podcast notes. If you would liketo learn more about
intercultural intelligence andhow you can become more
culturally agile, you can findmore information and hundreds of
articles at knowledge works.comSpecial thanks to Jason Carter
for composing the music on thispodcast and to the whole
knowledge works team for makingthis podcast a success. Thank
(52:07):
you Anita Rodriquez, Ara as thisbackyard Raji Suraj. And thanks
to VIP and George for audioproduction, Rosalyn Raj for
scheduling and Caleb Strauss formarketing and helping produce
this podcast
Everything is done around relationship. I would say
that that is true in the UK andright across right across the
world. And particularly in Asia,a lot is done around the dinner
table, around spending timetogether about learning about
(00:23):
people's families and theirchildren and what's important to
them in life, not just, let'sget in, let's get the deal done,
let's get out of here.
Marco Blankenburgh (00:41):
Welcome to the cultural agility podcast,
where we explore the stories ofsome of the most advanced
intercultural practitioners fromaround the world, to help you
become culturally agile, andsucceed in today's culturally
complex world. I'm your host,Marco Blankenburg, international
director of knowledge works,where every day we help
(01:02):
individuals and companiesachieve relational success in
that same complex world.
Welcome, everyone today, to thisnext episode of our podcast. And
today, I have Ian Wilson withus, a global businessman,
entrepreneur, out of the out ofthe box, or I would even say
(01:27):
beyond the box thinker. And Ihad the privilege of meeting in
in 2012. And he has an amazingstory to tell. And that's why
I'm excited to have him on ourpodcast today. So in welcome.
Thank you for joining us.
Iain Wilson (01:44):
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you very much.
Marco Blankenburgh (01:46):
So Ian, before we go into your story,
I'd love to give you the chanceto introduce yourself to our
audience today.
Iain Wilson (01:54):
Okay, well, I was born in Belfast in Northern
Ireland, which will becomesignificant perhaps in some of
the later questions when we dealwith culture and various things.
And I grew up here, enjoyed lifein Belfast, and was fortunate
(02:15):
that I had the opportunity frommaybe when I was 15, to start
traveling and to interact withother nations and and other
people. And from a very youngage, I have interest in
business, actually completelyillegal now. But from the age of
eight, I started working just alittle part time job brushing up
(02:36):
sawdust in a butcher store, thenstarted delivering newspapers
and milk and lots of differentthings to earn money. And by the
age of 11, I had purchased myfirst black and white
television, back in the day thatcost me 52 pounds back then,
which was a lot of money for alate 11 year old. We're going
(02:57):
back 40 years now or more. Soyeah, so that that gave me a
taste of business, a taste ofearning money and working hard.
And from there things began togrow.
Marco Blankenburgh (03:12):
It's amazing that at that early age, you're
already had that businessentrepreneurial mindset. You
also say, from 15th, you startedtraveling. So it seems that that
might have been the earlier daysof being engaged into culturally
in our world. Tell us a bit moreabout that. What What was that
(03:33):
like?
Iain Wilson (03:33):
Actually, if the reason I mentioned Belfast in
Northern Ireland was that myintercultural development was
very much formed as a childbecause in Belfast we had what I
was born in 1967. In 1969, wehad what were called the
(03:56):
troubles begin. And then realityit was terrorism under another
name. We had a lot of bombings,a lot of shootings, people from
two sides of a community thatwere fighting against each
other. So I grew up effectively,being told that the other side
were the enemy. And then, but atthe same time growing up around
(04:22):
other people of other religionsthat were absolutely my friends,
and were by no means my enemy.
So it was a real dichotomy ofculture, growing up and
understanding, if you like thetwo divides here and Northern
Ireland, but I always had thedesire to learn about other
cultures to go see what washappening in the rest of the
(04:45):
world realizing that in somerespects, we were living in a
bubble here. And there was adifferent world out there where
perhaps not everybody hatedthemselves or was wanting to You
know, shoot them, shoot theother side or whatever. So I, my
first trip was actually with abunch of young people. And we
(05:07):
went to France. And when I was15, again, I was the cutoff
point was 16. But I managed toget special dispensation to go
on that trip. And I was able topay for that trip myself,
because I was still working withall those jobs right through.
And fact until I was 22, doing abunch of different part time
(05:31):
jobs to earn money. So I paidfor that trip myself, and then
had the opportunity to interactwith a lot of young French kids
and spend a few weeks in thelegal area of France. And that
gave me a real understandingthat there are other cultures
(05:54):
out there that are different.
But in many respects, we'recomplementary. And in many
respects, we have much more incommon than we do the divides
us. And so useful, that was auseful thing to take back then
to Northern Ireland, as well. So
Marco Blankenburgh (06:16):
yeah, it sounds like some of the voices
around you. You know, the otherparty is the enemy. It sounds
like there was a what we thencall, you know, more of a
cultural critic narrative. Andwhat you just mentioned about
going to France, you discovered,hey, being a cultural loner,
allows me to explore the worldand meet people and discover
(06:38):
that we're actually not sodifferent, and that we can be
friends and connect acrosscultures.
Iain Wilson (06:43):
Yeah, and that was very important lesson for
somebody, you know, in NorthernIreland at that time to see that
there was another world outthere. I unfortunately, lived
through many bombings, I went toschool right in the center of
Belfast, when we finish thismeeting, I'm going to Chamber of
Commerce event that is in ahotel in the centre of Belfast,
(07:08):
which at one point in time hadthe title of being the most
bombed hotel in the world. Sothings are very different now.
Thanks, thank goodness, youknow, and that we Belfast in
Northern Ireland is muchdifferent place. So I'm really
grateful for the peace accordthat we had in 1998. And how
(07:29):
that is held now, having justcelebrated 25 years of that
three weeks ago. So that's,that's, that's a positive.
Marco Blankenburgh (07:39):
Yeah. And you already mentioned that you
were an entrepreneur at heartfrom a young age. Can you give
us just the fast track intowhere you are today with the
with IVC music?
Iain Wilson (07:55):
Yeah, I mean, effectively, when I was 16, I
had a serious car accident,knocked my pelvis out by around
45 degrees. I got a an insurancepayout. And at that time, I
bought myself a really niceguitar. Because I was playing a
little bit of music. I boughtmyself a lot and guitar and
(08:15):
Irish made instrument with themoney and started learning
guitar playing more. And startedreally in the late 80s. Getting
alongside the guys allowingguitars, I attended some music
shows for them in Germany. I didsome research for them into
(08:36):
markets such as France, Spain,and Scandinavia to try to help
them develop business. But atthat time, they couldn't afford
to employ me full time I wasreally doing it as a student to
help them out while I was doingbusiness studies. And then, in
(08:56):
1993, Loudon finally got to thepoint where they could employ me
as a European sales manager andI joined them initially European
sales manager and MChem,worldwide sales manager within
about six months and developtheir business across the globe,
from 1993 right through to 2006.
But also through that period,another US company had asked me
(09:22):
to come to do some work for themlab and guitarist and acoustic
guitar. Another US company whowere into electric guitars,
called Parker guitars, asked meto come and do some work for
them. And that lasted about ninemonths. And I had actually funny
story set up a tradeshow boothfor them in Frankfurt at the
(09:44):
major show, guitar show. And themorning of the show, I got a
call from the CEO to say yourservices are no longer required.
We just sold the company. And sohe's like, Oh, great. But that
led to one of the owners ofParker guitars was Larry
(10:04):
Fishman, who makes guitarpickups he that asked me to join
that company, who worked for foras a consultant, developing
their international sales aswell as setting up and managing
their OEM operation in China. Sothat opened up a whole wealth of
intercultural experience intoterritory and a country that
(10:30):
initially I knew nothing aboutand had to learn very quickly
how to interact with a what wasfor me a very foreign culture,
and very foreign language. Imean, I spoke, I studied French
at school, hence my interest. Iactually lived in Germany for
one year when I was studyingbusiness in 1989. So I spoke
(10:52):
some German. And then later inlife, I lived in Italy for 10
years, so I picked up Italian,but Chinese was completely
foreign, and not a Latin basedlanguage that you can think of
quite, you know, quite easily.
(11:12):
So the interculturalintelligence learning curve in
China was was steep, have tostay and challenging at times.
But it's, it's a great nation,country that I love. And in
fact, we'll head back there insummertime. And in later life, I
(11:33):
ended up marrying a Chinese ladythat in fact, I met in Belfast
and not in China. Now I have twokids.
Marco Blankenburgh (11:42):
Now, people who are not familiar with the
music industry, we have music asone common passion. You made it
your profession as well, butloud and guitars in my days were
born in the same year 67. So inmy days, Eric Clapton, for
(12:02):
instance, was allowed in Playa.
Are there any other famouspeople that actually today play,
play loud and guitars for thosethat are not initiated in the in
the music industry?
Iain Wilson (12:13):
I should put a disclaimer in here that I
stopped working for them in2006. But I they're a great
company and I still have greatrelationship with them. So
probably the most famous rightnow would be Ed Sheeran. Right.
And in fact, they have done acollaboration with Ed Sheeran.
So they have Loudon, guitars atthe very high end of the market,
(12:34):
and then Sheeran guitars as amore affordable guitar. So if
you watch any Ed Sheeranperformance, you will see him
playing either on the Loudoun orSheeran.
Marco Blankenburgh (12:47):
Right, right. Now, you already
mentioned that living in China,marrying into China steep
learning curve interculturally.
So in 2012, US you joined ourintercultural intelligence
certification. And I'm justcurious at that point, what drew
you to, to that, thatcertification? Why why did you
(13:12):
join,
Iain Wilson (13:16):
I guess I had been a reasonable amount of
experience both on holidays andbusiness in European countries,
I had since 2003, startedtraveling into China, although I
didn't do any business therereally until 2007, or eight. And
(13:38):
I was keen just to get a betterunderstanding of doing business
with with other nations and someof the pitfalls and some of the
things to look out for whenyou're dealing with people from
from different cultures. Havinggrown up in this bubble, I felt,
(14:00):
and I still feel even today thatyou always need to learn more,
you'll always need to interactmore you never stop learning.
And dealing with people fromother nations, there are certain
advocates that you need toadhere to, there are certain
things that you should andshouldn't do. And they can turn
(14:25):
your business from being verysuccessful or into massive
failure. So it's important tolearn them and hence my
involvement in the interculturalintelligence certificate. And I
would love to come back at somestage in the future and do more
and interact again on
Marco Blankenburgh (14:45):
that. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Now, when
you think about I know it's along time ago was 2012. But
learning that frameworklearning, a way to quantify why
people behave the way they do,learning, you know, more in a
structured way to try and adjustyour behavior to create more
(15:08):
successful relationships. And asyou mentioned, hopefully also
successful business which youhave done fantastically well.
How did that impact you joiningthat, and then starting to apply
it,
Iain Wilson (15:22):
I guess the biggest thing that I had to learn was to
step back and evaluate before Iopen my mouth, and understand
the context in which I wasdealing. And then I'm gonna have
a fairly quick thinker, but atthe same time, not necessarily
say the first thing that cameinto your mind because it could
(15:44):
offend somebody or could betaken the wrong way. And
particularly for somebody whereEnglish is their second
language, then you have to bedoubly careful in how you
express things, and how youcommunicate things. So that the,
the understanding of that ofthat person is correct. And they
(16:08):
take actually, on board whatyou're trying to say. So that's
one of the biggest things Iwould say. And one of the tech
takeaways that I had from fromthe course is like, evaluate
first, who's in the room, whoyou're dealing with, who you're
talking to, and understand lifefrom their perspective, and
(16:30):
particularly in, in dealing withAsian territories, the hierarchy
of who you're, you're dealingwith, you know, and are you
talking to the right person, youknow, are you? Are you talking
to the translator or aninterpreter or, you know, the
office staff that don't haveinfluence, so understanding, you
(16:50):
know, positioning at a table ata banquet at the meal, who sits
where, why and how those sortsof things are good to learn, if
you want to deal with othercultures that that you're not
familiar with. In the UK, nobodycares, you sit down the table
you eat. That's not the case inChina.
Marco Blankenburgh (17:09):
Yeah, those are great insights. And as I
listened to you, it's it alsoseems that, you know, you want
to get the deal done, which ismore the transactional side. But
you can't, you might get onedeal done. But you can't sustain
that unless you have invested inbuilding healthy relationships.
Iain Wilson (17:28):
Everything is done around relationship. And I would
say that that is true. In theUK, and right across, right
across the world. Andparticularly in Asia, a lot is
done around the dinner table,around spending time together
(17:49):
about learning about people'sfamilies and their children and
what's important to them inlife. Not just let's get in,
let's get the deal done. Let'sget out of here.
Marco Blankenburgh (18:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Now you're you're working withquite a complex web of
relationships quite a fast Itspans multiple continents. For
people who have no idea aboutwhat happens behind the scenes
in the in the musical industryin the manufacturing and
distribution of musicalinstruments. Can you in like in
(18:24):
60 seconds for uninitiated,explain what you do and how I
IVC music adds value into themusic industry?
Iain Wilson (18:37):
Yeah, so I basically turned myself to make
it easy for people to understandas an international matchmaker.
So for brands in the musicindustry, they will come to me
and say we want to make a guitaror ukulele, a new drum, a piano
at this price point, or we wantto design something new, and we
(18:58):
need to find somewhere to haveit made. They may have a little
bit of experience themselves,they may not. And we help
basically match them to theright manufacturing partners
around the world. And we use ourteam to manage that entire
production process for them. AndQC the instruments etc before
(19:19):
they get shipped to literallyanywhere in the globe, around
the globe. And then the otherside of my business is that some
of those companies that I workfor from the sourcing
perspective will also engage usas consultants to help them
build our international salesnetwork. In the past that would
(19:39):
have been traditionally throughjust distributors for the main
part. But now, post pandemicobviously the world has changed
and we have now what's calledomni channel distribution. So
you can go through disturbdistributors you can go through
agents direct to retail Now isbecoming more and more popular.
(20:03):
And then of course, you have themassive online resellers,
whether that's JD in, in China,or Amazon and the West, and like
a good person on the BBC wouldsay there are other providers
available. So many, many, manymore. So we help people find the
(20:27):
right route to marketeffectively,
Marco Blankenburgh (20:29):
right, right. Now, throughout the ages,
people who make musicalinstruments take a lot of pride
in doing that, which then alsotypically leads to not having
good words to say, for musicalinstruments that are made in
other countries, for instance,you mentioned China, which other
(20:54):
countries, do you havemanufacturing happening
Iain Wilson (20:59):
right now in Eastern Europe and Czech
Republic and China, in Vietnam,in India, they, and Indonesia,
they would be the main ones aswell, as well as the UK, of
course. And we've startedlooking at some manufacturing
now even back in the US in theUS. And there are both tax and
(21:23):
political reasons for that forsome of those for some of those
companies. So they would be themain areas that we would be
manufacturing in right now. Butthe world changes, you know, in
the past, it was Japan, Japanwas the place when things in the
West became too expensive,people were looking for cheaper
(21:44):
labor option. At the very start.
That was Japan, Japan becamemore expensive and move to South
Korea, South Korea became moreexpensive, the vast majority of
those people moved to Taiwan orinto directly into China, then
China is becoming more expensivenow. And also, in certain
aspects, Trump introduced a 25%tariff on goods coming from
(22:12):
China into the US. So thataffected a lot of US companies.
So we have spent probably mostof the pandemic time shifting
and pivoting US companies inparticular, either completely or
partly out of China into othermanufacturing areas. Now, and
yes, there is always snobberyabout, you know, you know,
(22:37):
nothing good can come out ofChina, but they said that about
Japan at the start, and frankly,the Chinese can make guitars as
well as anybody in any othercountry and have gotten much
better at it a much moreefficient data is added, as you
would expect, you know, from aChinese manufacturer.
Marco Blankenburgh (23:01):
Yeah. So you're saying that there's been
a shift in how people perceivequality produced in a certain
country?
Iain Wilson (23:10):
Yes, there has been a shift, it does take time to be
fair. And at the start, the, youknow, Japanese production wasn't
great compared to US production.
Same thing for for South Korea.
And the same for China. And ittakes everybody time to learn
their craft. And building amusical instrument is a craft.
(23:31):
Certain parts of it couldperhaps be done by computer or
CNC, but not very much. So it'sreally very much hands on and it
takes time to learn that.
Marco Blankenburgh (23:41):
So it sounds like that there is a need for
knowledge transfer in order toto, to to increase that quality
or reliability respect for forthe instrument maker. How do you
get involved in in thatknowledge transfer? And how does
the industry support that?
Iain Wilson (24:01):
Well, even with some of my staff, I mean, my
right hand man, David Graham,was the production manager at
Loudoun guitars when I was theinternational sales manager, we
both left in 2006 and set up mymy company at that point. And
even then, they've got involvedin training our team in China so
(24:26):
that even in the very earlydays, they had very high
standards for what we wouldexpect of a guitar or a ukulele
or whatever it was to go out thedoor. That was simply
transferring knowledge. The riskis always you think, Okay, I'm
transferring this knowledge willthey then go and take that
(24:49):
knowledge and do their ownthing? They might on some have.
But the reality is, they don'thave the connections that we
have in the rest of the world.
So I would take them a lot ofmoney and a lot of effort to
develop those. So I don't see itas a big risk, frankly.
Marco Blankenburgh (25:08):
Now, one of the things you just mentioned
the tariffs for importing fromChina into the US. And one of
the reasons behind that is thatsome some people in in, in the
business world and in politicsclaim that, oh, we've sold the
farm we've, we've, we've allowedmanufacturing to go abroad. And
(25:28):
as a result, we lose our jobs.
How does that play out in themusic industry? You mentioned,
of course, price, and laborcharges are hugely important.
But how do you see that play outin your work,
Iain Wilson (25:43):
there is a theoretical desire for
manufacturing to come back tothe UK or to the US or whatever.
But when companies begin to lookat the cost of the real cost of
doing that, they realize that amaybe 499 guitar coming out of
somewhere in Asia would all of asudden have to become a 1499
(26:03):
guitar. And it takes them into acompletely different sphere of
the market that then as you goup or down the permit, depending
how you want to look at it.
There are less and less buyersfor that. Right. So So I guess,
there there's this theoreticaldesire to bring things back to
(26:25):
countries for manufacturing. Butwhen you look at the reality,
it's not always often not thecase that it can happen.
Marco Blankenburgh (26:39):
I didn't have this question on on, on my
list. But as we were talking,you mentioned COVID, earlier on,
has as COVID resulted in morepeople getting into music or
less, what would have you seen,
Iain Wilson (26:54):
actually, we have seen that kind of boom and bust
if you like, we saw a massiveboom through the pandemic,
because people were at home. Alot of governments like in the
UK, were giving up furloughmoney for people to stay at
home, paying their wages forthem to do nothing, and nobody
could travel for the most part.
So people were spending money onHobbies, and not just guitars,
(27:15):
but other hobbies. Like youcould not get a fishing rod in
the UK, for example, duringCOVID time and a lot of you
know, bicycles and other thingsjust went crazy because people
were home and we're looking forthings to do. So guitars and
ukuleles in particular that wereeasy to pick up and learn. were
sold by in the masses during theCOVID period that has since
(27:41):
tailed off and cooled off. Andcurrently unfortunately, there's
an oversupply in the market thatwe're having to work through in
2023, but hopefully, hopefullyeven itself out again in 2024.
Marco Blankenburgh (27:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Now you could probably tell manystories about building up those
relationships, building trustacross cultures, looking at
quality assurance, the wholeprocess of giving people
feedback, if they might not havedone such a great job, how to
adjust that. Could you justhighlight a few stories where
(28:20):
your intercultural skills, yourability to build relationships
across cultures have reallyallowed you to move forward
better than most?
Iain Wilson (28:34):
Yeah, okay. I mean, I guess a funny story to start
off with I visited a small, nota small city because Nolan, and
that's more or less, a smallercity in China called Tai Chi at
one time. And I was staying intheir so called International
Hotel, but I think I wasprobably the only international
(28:56):
person that ever stayed there.
And I was sitting in the lobbywaiting for the driver to come
pick me up and take me to thefactory. And I had a little
school child come up andactually start poking me. And I
looked like I was an alien whojust landed from Mars. And I
find that quite funny, because Iknew they'd probably never seen
(29:20):
another foreign or particularly,you know, white person in their
life. So they went away, Ithought nothing more of it. And
within five minutes, almost theentire school was surrounding
me. And it was like a lifetimeexperience for them. And I
(29:40):
thought, you know, this, whilewhile it's funny, it's also
important for kids because italso shows them that it's
possible to interact with otherpeople from from other nations,
even if you don't know knowthem, even if you're a different
color, even if you look strangeif you're fat compared to them.
I'm going to Hawaii, you know,whatever. So it's, I thought
(30:01):
that that was a very interestingperspective, you know, from one
of my early, early trips, inChina. And I guess from dealing
from a business perspective,again, it comes down to
understanding the culture thatyou're in, if you're selling
pianos, for example, you arenormally suited and booted,
(30:24):
you've got a tie on your, youknow, your three piece suit, you
look very dapper. And you willgo into a meeting dressed like
that, if you do that, in theguitar industry, people will
take you incredibly, you know,think, you know, this is a
weirdo, this, this guy's nuts,you know. And again, it comes
down to understanding youraudience and understanding the
(30:47):
culture of who you're dealingwith. And, you know, for your
listeners, I really encouragethem to, to look at who they're
going to be meeting, look at whothey're going to be dealing
with, and understand what evenwhat is the right dress, you
know, to meet to meet thosepeople in, because you can cut
(31:09):
somebody off immediately byturning up in the wrong type of
shirt or the wrong color orsomething that that's very
offensive to their culture. Sounderstanding those small
initia. And detail is importantand do a little bit of research
(31:29):
before you start traveling forinternational business,
understand, where you know whereyou're going, where you're going
to who you're dealing with whatthe type of culture is. And when
I started traveling, therewasn't that much on the Internet
back then. But I can tell you,now you can get everything that
you need. There and through, ofcourse, one of your courses and
(31:53):
understanding cultures, youknow, around the world, and how
to and how to deal with that. Sothat's just a couple of little
snippets that I would give toyour listeners, and I've dealt
with, in I've been in SouthAmerica, which is a very lively,
vibrant music, you know, into alot of dance and salsa, etc. Or
(32:17):
you can go into a moreconservative sort of Western
European German style sort ofmusic into the old Papa, what we
call the old Papa, traditionalGerman world, and you've been
Dutch we'd understand a littlebit of that. And then what or
(32:38):
you can go into the sort ofScandinavian heavy rock or you
know, that that sort of stuff.
So, again, it's understandingwho you're dealing with, what
type of musician you're dealingwith, what type of audience what
type of business you're dealingwith, and how. And that applies
(33:00):
to an understanding, then thechannels that you're working
with, know if, if you're goingin to see a Google and you wear
a suit, probably they'll look atyou weirdly, too, you know,
because that's not theirculture, or Amazon, or, you
know, whoever. Whereas if you'regoing in to see some top level
executives somewhere, maybe it'sthe right thing to wear a tie.
Marco Blankenburgh (33:23):
Yes. Yeah.
And you're raising somethingthat's, that's really crucial.
It's not just the culturesomebody comes from, but it's
also the culture of theorganization. And keeping that
in mind. You mentioned dresscode, some people dress as an
expression of who they are. ButI also hear you say that you
dress in order to build thatbridge of relationship that is
(33:45):
equally important, or sometimeseven more important.
Iain Wilson (33:50):
Yeah, particularly if you know, if you're going in
from a business perspective,last thing you want to do is
offend somebody by what you're,what you're wearing, or what
you're what you're doing. So youreally have to be careful and
understanding other people'scultures.
Marco Blankenburgh (34:07):
And you've, you've mentioned that over time
you build you buildrelationships with a number of
people across specially Asia,and you mentioned Europe as
well. Manufacturers, how manymanufacturers are you in total,
working with?
Iain Wilson (34:25):
We're dealing probably across the world with
about 20 Differentmanufacturers, right. And then,
with about 120 or 130 differentroutes to market, whether that
be through distributors, agentsor direct to retail, or some of
(34:47):
the major online channels I'vetalked to talk about before
Marco Blankenburgh (34:52):
and listening to your it sounds like
you you sort of need toculturally be on your toes. Too
much every day, because you youmove from one culture to another
at the same time. In ourcertification, we keep on
hammering on this that, youknow, we always say the average
(35:12):
Indonesia and the averageChinese doesn't really exist or
a general things you can sayabout a certain culture. But it
sounds like the type of work youdo you need to go much more
granular and really get to knowyou mentioned slowing down,
doing your research,understanding the why of
(35:32):
somebody's behavior. Could youmaybe give an example where, you
know, the average Indonesian orthe average Chinese doesn't
necessarily always apply, whereyou had to really, you know, go
to a deeper level to understandthe other party or the person
you're working with?
Iain Wilson (35:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you take Indonesia, for example,
the interesting thing about theguitar factories and a lot of
electronic factories, even inIndonesia, is that they're owned
by South Koreans. So, on the onehand, you're dealing with an
Indonesian workforce, for themost part, what you're dealing
(36:13):
with a South Korean management.
So they're there in itself, youhave two cultures coming
together, that are verydifferent. You have two,
possibly three religions comingtogether and respecting those
within the factory and givingpeople the time they need to
(36:34):
express that, that that's beeninteresting. And looking at how
the management style of that ofthose South Koreans, they have
had to adapt to the expressionand to the to the work rate of
(36:56):
Indonesians, Indonesians arevery, very hard working. But
this is a massivegeneralization, of course, but
they're not as fast as asChinese tend to be. They work at
a slower pace, but they'repretty accurate at what they
have what they do. Sounderstanding that setting
(37:17):
expectations, and the whole areaof hierarchy and respect comes
into comes into play again, sotake me as a Westerner than
going into that situation,trying to understand how I get
the best out of a South Koreanmanagement, while at the same
(37:39):
time trying to influence anIndonesian workforce to get the
best of the quality that Irequire, can be quite, can be
quite challenging. And there aretimes quite frankly, when I've
had to get my hands dirty myselfand just get in there and, you
know, generally show people howthings can or should be done on
(38:02):
some of our products. And if wehave issues and quality issues,
then showing them the worstthing you can do is make an
Asian you know, lose face. Sothere's no point shouting at
them no point, you know,disgracing them and even gently
in front of the rest of theircomrades. So you've got to
(38:23):
actually get in there andphysically be the person showing
the best way to do things ratherthan criticizing. And I spent
the best part of 10 days in avery hot and sweaty factory in
Surabaya, in Indonesia, on theon the floor, showing people
how, you know, to do things, thebest way for the products that
(38:47):
we needed to achieve for our,for our customer, that I worked
in a sound studio in thatfactory, which had no air
conditioning, no fan, it was,you know, crazy, you know, 3940
degrees like living in Dubaitype thing, you know, the whole
time but on the floor with noair conditioning, and actually
(39:08):
visited that factory about twomonths ago. And I was glad to
say that in that same studio,they now have air conditioning.
So I wouldn't have a fear ofgoing back. But again, it it's
it's showing people how you knowhow to do things better rather
than criticizing them for notreaching your level. That's
(39:30):
that's very different, perhapsto a Western thinking in many in
many times and even ahierarchical Asian thinking.
Marco Blankenburgh (39:43):
But that also requires a certain mindset
where you need to you need toslow it down you need to
actually invest time, but Ialmost I would also say it does
require a certain amount ofhumility to to to invest at that
level into the rules. Sure,
Iain Wilson (40:01):
yeah, well, I mean, even, even if I take China, I
mean, I started traveling toChina in 2003. But I didn't
actually start doing businessuntil around 2008. That's a
massive investment. Yeah. Butthat investment on that time was
using doing exactly that it wasbuilding relationships with the
right partners, many of whom arestill my partners today, because
(40:26):
I had invested time, many ofwhom that would jump through
great hoops to ensure that mycustomers are happy, even some,
for Christmas business, I'veeven flown in containers of
guitars, to make sure they don'tlose the business, rather than
putting on a ship. So, you know,that's the sort of relationship
(40:48):
that can only be developed withtime.
Marco Blankenburgh (40:52):
And if I can just put you on the spot, if, if
you can think of one of thosepartners that you've worked
with, for so long. If if I wouldask them, who's in tell me, you
know, what is it like to workwith him? What would they say?
If you can think of maybe oneperson, what would he or she
say?
Iain Wilson (41:11):
I think he would say I'm a straight shooter, I,
you know, I tell. I tell it asit is, but I am also fair, I
will work with the factory totry to solve issues, I'll work
with my customers, also to tryto solve issues if they come up.
And even today, one of ourcustomers in the UK, checked a
(41:33):
couple of guitars, he wasn'toverly happy. So I flew one of
my guys out there to check itout. That's an investment.
That's his time. That's my, youknow, my money. But I want this
customer, at the end to be happywith the guitars and to be happy
with the experience of workingwith IBC.
Marco Blankenburgh (41:54):
Now, recently, you had an exciting
thing happened, you actually wonthe king's award for enterprise
in the UK. And that's still inthe press. I was I was just
checking it out this morninghere. And I thought, Wow, this
keeps on going if people. Yes,so. So what was it like? I think
(42:16):
there's 150 companies that getthe award, if I'm not mistaken,
it
Iain Wilson (42:20):
was 48 companies, the award itself has been run
for I think around 57 years bythe Queen. This is actually the
first year for obvious reasonsthat became the Kings award. We
actually applied for the wardtwo days before the King, the
Queen passed away. And it's afairly arduous process that you
(42:43):
have to go through to be honest,to get to the point where you're
even shortlisted and consideredas being on the shortlist. And
then you have a massive waitingperiod, because they always
announce it on the Queen'sbirthday in April. And we were
(43:04):
made aware of it in early Aprilthat we had won. And it was it's
a massive honor and a massiveprestige for us as a company,
there's absolutely no cashinvolved, unfortunately, but you
couldn't buy the the price andthe prestige that it brings. And
(43:24):
we get, we're permitted to usethe royal kings enterprise
symbol for the next five yearson our communication. And you
will see different things comingup over this year that will link
IBC with with the Kings awardand September I will be 30 years
(43:46):
in the business. So there'll bemore more things happening over
the course of this year. And Ialso get to go to Buckingham
Palace at some point and toattend a reception there either
with the king or somebody elsefrom from the royal family.
That's that was actually themost disappointing part from my
(44:09):
wife. Because in the past, it'salways been two people that were
allowed to attend. But sinceCOVID, they've changed it to one
person from the business. So mywife is somewhat stoked about
that. But that nothing tonothing we can do. So we're
going to go as a family, we'regoing to take five days in
London, celebrated together as afamily but only myself
(44:32):
unfortunately, I'll get to getgo to Buckingham Palace this
time.
Marco Blankenburgh (44:35):
Right? And when you think of, you know, 30
years in the industry you're apretty level headed guy. But it
is a significant award toreceive. So so how does it
impact you? What does it whatdoes it communicate to you?
Iain Wilson (44:54):
Well, it communicates the hard work that
myself and my team have put inover over the years, you know,
30 years in any industry is whatyou call longevity. It's, you
know, we've stuck it out, we'vestuck out the, you know, the
crash in 2008. And, you know,the, the pandemic, and you know,
(45:17):
we're, we're still alive, we'restill kicking, we're still
trying to develop the businessand take it to higher places
even. And, in fact, my wifeasked me this question at
breakfast this morning. And shemade this comment. And she said,
You know, I really hope thisisn't the pinnacle of your
career, but it's just the start.
And when you look at that 30years in, you kind of go yes, we
(45:39):
have achieved a lot. The prizeand the award is an amazing
accolade. And I can'tunderestimate that. But I'm 55
and I no means done, you know, Ihave a lot more than I want to
achieve in my life. And I intendto stay in the music industry
and, and do that and developproducts and manufacturing and
(46:05):
international distribution formany customers around the world.
Marco Blankenburgh (46:13):
Now, there's a lot of, there's a lot of talk
in, in learning and developmentspace around global leadership.
One of our people in our networkdid some research on how many
competencies and skills havebeen identified that supposably
make you a better global leader,his list ended at 664
(46:37):
competencies and skills, whichis a humongous list. You you've
you've really succeeded intraversing the globe and turning
that into a successful business,being culturally agile as a as a
business leader and anintrapreneur. What would you say
to other leaders? What? What dothey need?
Iain Wilson (46:59):
Yeah, never think that you've arrived. Because
that is your that's your signalthat you're going into reverse?
Actually, when you are, you'regoing to stagnate. So, for
example, last year, I investedtime in what was called a help
(47:20):
to grow management program atthe Bill Clinton School of
Management at Queen's Universityin Belfast. Now, that was a time
that in reality I didn't have,but you never have time to
study, and you never have timeto do certain things. But I
(47:40):
always believe that learning isimportant. And understanding how
you can do things better isimportant. I'm working on a
weekly basis, for example, withan action coach that is helping
in certain aspects of thebusiness, holding me to account
to make sure certain thingshappen. And again, it's a
(48:03):
learning process, it's aninvestment it's taking to invest
the money in paying for a coach,it's investing time. But it has
us, you know, you've seen andI've seen with this award, it's
paid massive, massive benefits.
So I would say to any globalleader, don't think that you've
made it and also learn andinvest time to interact with
(48:25):
with other global leaders too,whether that's in one of your
programs in Dubai, whether it'syour local Chamber of Commerce,
the Federation of SmallBusiness, or whatever it is, you
know, take time to network withother like minded people that
you can rub against, that youcan learn from, it might be a
completely different industry.
(48:50):
You can still learn things fromfrom other people pick up little
snippets of of information, oryou think you know what, I never
thought of that. And that'sputting yourself in those
positions, is the best way tobetter yourself, I believe as a
global leader.
Marco Blankenburgh (49:11):
Wonderful.
So you already mentioned at 55,you're not done. Your wife said
to you, I hope this is not thepinnacle. What what are you
dreaming of?
Iain Wilson (49:23):
I want to take the business to a much higher level.
So I want to be the company thatis known in the music industry
as being your best partner forboth sourcing on an
international trade. And, youknow, I have aspirations and
dreams of developing some of myown brands at some some time and
(49:46):
when the time's right and that'ssomething that I'm actively
looking at and always have inthe back of my mind. It's always
one of those things. Well, youknow, you spend a lot of your
life advising consult holdingfor other companies, how about
you do it yourself for yourselfand that's always, always
playing in the back of my mind.
So I'm I'm strongly consideringvarious areas right now as to
(50:10):
how that could happen.
Marco Blankenburgh (50:13):
Fantastic.
Well, I think we could talk forhours, especially hearing more
of your, your stories, yourbusiness stories, working across
the globe, thank you so much forfor joining us, and for
inspiring us because you, youare truly a well seasoned global
business entrepreneur. And it'sbeautiful to hear how you've
(50:39):
turned that into adding valueacross the whole value chain
within the music industry. Sothank you for for telling your
story. And yeah, it's
Iain Wilson (50:50):
been great to talk again and contact again. And I
really hope that I genuinelyhope that I can come back to
Dubai and get involved in one ofyour courses again soon.
Marco Blankenburgh (51:00):
Fantastic.
And when people want to get incontact with Ian, we will share
the contact information in thenotes section of this podcast.
So you want to get connectedwith with em or with with ABC
music, then find those detailsin the notes section. Thank you
so much for joining us for thisepisode of the cultural agility
(51:20):
podcast. If you enjoyed today'sepisode, share it with someone.
Best way to help us out is byleaving a review on your
favorite podcast, app orchannel. Force forward and
recommend this podcast to peoplearound you. As always, if any of
the topics we discussed todayintrigue you, you will find
links to articles discussingthem in greater depth in the
(51:43):
podcast notes. If you would liketo learn more about
intercultural intelligence andhow you can become more
culturally agile, you can findmore information and hundreds of
articles at knowledge works.comSpecial thanks to Jason Carter
for composing the music on thispodcast and to the whole
knowledge works team for makingthis podcast a success. Thank
(52:07):
you Anita Rodriquez, Ara as thisbackyard Raji Suraj. And thanks
to VIP and George for audioproduction, Rosalyn Raj for
scheduling and Caleb Strauss formarketing and helping produce
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