November 2, 2023 • 36 mins
Imagine if you could play a part in breaking the generational cycles of poverty, addiction, and incarceration. Picture the impact of providing a second chance and a fresh start to those trapped in these crippling cycles. This week, we're joined by Tina Mitchell, the unstoppable force behind Crossbridge, who shares her journey from starting the organization in 2006 with just one house and six beds.
Throughout the conversation, Tina's steadfast belief in the transformative power of hope shines through. Tune in to this heartening conversation as Tina shares her vision for Crossbridge and how it continues to create change, one life at a time.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Unpolished Recovery.
My name is Trey.
Most stories of recovery startwith how a bad addiction was,
how they enter recovery and howgreat life is now.
That's a polished story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is Chris.
I'm your co-host of UnpolishedRecovery.
Today we have a very specialguest.
We have Pastor Tina Mitchell,who is the executive director
and founder of Crossbridge.
Thanks for joining us, pastorTina.
Thanks for having me.
So I've told people beforeyou're my, my mentor and you're
the one actually inspired me towork in recovery, because I've
(00:32):
seen you just given To thecommunity just tirelessly in a.
So do you want to just startout by giving us some general
information about Crossbridge?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sure Crossbridge is a nonprofit that's committed to
providing programming that willend destructive cycles,
particularly generationalpoverty, addiction and
incarceration.
And oftentimes addiction,incarceration ends up being a
result of generational poverty,and these, all of these cycles
really are generational cycles.
(01:02):
What we have seen is thataddiction, incarceration, when
you begin to look at it, thatit's been a generational cycle
in families, so withoutintervention, these cycles won't
be broken.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So that's what we're trying to do and just I may, as
she has started with this.
But we talk about kid power,youth power, restoration house
on some way.
You explain just kind of howCrossbridge Overseas all these
things right.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So in trying to break those cycles, you know we want
to work preventively with kidsso that before they ever need
the restorative part ofCrossbridge Restoration house,
perhaps we can break the cyclesbefore these kids ever get
involved in drugs or alcohol.
So that's what our kid power,youth power program is about.
It's a prevention program, it'smentoring, and mentoring is
(01:49):
shown to Scientifically, it'sproven that it can mitigate the
damage of toxic stress and ourchildren living in an
environment that Creates toxicstress.
So if we don't try to mitigatethat damage oftentimes evidence
is also there They'll turn todrugs and alcohol.
So we're trying to break thecycle there.
And then on the restorativeside we're working with people
(02:10):
who didn't have kid power, newpower, and had those cycles
begin in their life and you know, have many times just destroyed
just about everything in theirlife and we're trying to help
them kind of put that backtogether and restore, you know,
a great life for them.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Can't how long.
How long ago did you startEverything in the motion?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, I found it in 2006.
We didn't start any programtill 2009 and in those three
years we were trying to raise alittle bit of funding and really
just decide what it is wewanted to do, and because we
knew we wanted to have qualityprogramming and You'd told me
before, but when you firststarted the restoration side, it
was just one house right.
(02:53):
One house with six beds all menand then today, what do we have
?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
how many beds we?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
have 74 beds, 53, I think, for men.
Well, that would be 77, uh 24for women.
But we are expanding thewomen's program.
I'm going to be adding 10 morebeds.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's just grown tremendously through the yeah,
it's massive.
Uh, would you mind telling us alittle bit like what, what led
you to start?
You know, cross bridge, whatwas kind of going on at that
time?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Right, um, I was on staff at a church, uh, in an
area that has a lot of drugs andalcohol.
It's really considered a majorthoroughfare in Nashville for
drugs and prostitution.
So I believe this, the start ofcross bridge, is just born out
of seeing a need, and every dayI drove up and down this road,
murphysboro road or MurphysboroPike, and I saw the suffering
(03:46):
that was out there.
And then I had an opportunityto begin to go into jail and
Really for worship services.
But then I began to see thiscycle.
Uh, I was in the women'sbuilding at first, alone only
women, and I would see women gohome and then a couple weeks
later they were back.
So there was this revolvingdoor of them Continuing to come
back.
And I had no history ofaddiction, I didn't know
(04:08):
anything about it and I'm likewhy these people keep coming
back?
You know why don't you want togo to jail?
And then, uh, just throughworking with some recovery
people, with some recoveryprograms, I ended up on the
treatment team for, um, ourrecovery court in Nashville.
I began to learn why peoplecome back.
Because without the resourcesand the interventions that are
(04:29):
needed, you know they justreturn to the same situations
and you get the same oldbehavior.
So for me, the very beginning ofit was just seeing the
suffering and wanting to dosomething about that need, not
not being willing to just keeplooking at it and do nothing.
Matter of fact, I told my bossat the time we're either going
to do more in this community orI'm not going to come here,
(04:50):
because I lived at that time ina city called Franklin.
It's an affluent place and youdidn't see that kind of
suffering.
They just don't even allow it.
They'll bring you up here inNashville.
You know they're not gonna letthe homeless people run around
and, you know, mess up theirpretty environment.
So I could just stay away fromhere because it was
heartbreaking to me to see whatI was seeing out there and not
(05:10):
do anything about it, and Ireally felt like we weren't
doing anything.
So I said and so I, you know,as a faith-based person, I
really believe God put it on myheart and it was just such a
passion for me that I had to dosomething or I had to get away
from it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Why Crossbridge?
How did that name come about?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
That's kind of funny, because I wanted the name
Bridge and when the attorneythat was setting up the
nonprofit tried to set that up,he said you can't have that name
, it's already taken.
I said no, I really need thatname.
He said you can't have it.
So I asked someone who is nowco-director of Restoration House
, bill Hart, say, hey, you'rereally great with acronyms and
(05:49):
names, what can we put with it?
And it wasn't long at all.
He just said what aboutCrossbridge?
I said, oh, that's perfect,because Bridge a bridge is a
connector, and so Crossbridge istrying to connect people with
certain things and, of course,being faith-based, we believe
the Cross is the connection toGod through Jesus Christ, but
(06:09):
we're wanting to connect them toso much more than just a
relationship with God.
We want to connect them to theservices that they need and
ultimately, crossbridge as awhole, we're connecting people
with, like our children thatthey would go on to higher
education, connecting peoplehere, reconnecting them with
family sometimes.
So it's really about makingthose connections and that's
(06:32):
what a bridge is.
The bridge is actually anacronym that stands for building
oh my gosh, I haven't had tosay this a long time building
community leaders, I think R isoh my gosh, I'm not going to go
through this right now.
All right, we're going to editthat out.
I can't believe it.
I say it all the time.
So you got to edit that out.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Can you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I mean I'll think about it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Okay, all right.
Well no, d is developing lifeskills, g is giving back we want
people to give back and E iselevating people.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So that's anyway so that might stay in the episode.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, great.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I've mentioned before I'm the operations
manager on the recovery side,kids director, trace the kid,
the director over kid power andyouth power.
But on the recovery side whenyou mentioned it was one house,
six beds.
Through those changes were youinvolved in day to day, like,
were you ground level, likegetting it started?
(07:35):
What was that like?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Absolutely.
At the beginning I was very,very involved and there's some
benefits to that.
You know there's somedisadvantages, but yeah, I knew
everybody's name and I like that.
I knew their stories.
A lot of our clients came fromdrug court so I knew a lot about
them through the drug courtprocess as well.
But yeah, I mean, it waseverything from renting the
(07:57):
houses, determining who would bethe leads in the houses,
setting up utilities, everything.
You know I had another helperwho you know we were both just
part time, weren't getting paidany money, just just to get it
going, and so yeah, but I wasvery involved in the beginning
of Crossbridge as a whole.
You know, I say we had to raisemoney.
You can't do these thingswithout money.
(08:18):
So planning our first event sowe could raise money to start
our kids program, so yeah, itwas quite a task at the
beginning and then of course wegrew and that allowed us to hire
more staff.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, just during my time here in the last several
years I've seen it grow, butit's always been this well run,
stable program, nala nonsense.
So I always find it fascinatingstarting out with one house,
six beds.
You know how it got from thatpoint to now.
What are some of thedifficulties you run into.
You know like was it hard to.
(08:51):
I know you went from one houseto many before you had the newer
facilities, like you know whatare some of the obstacles with
that trying to get places formore beds.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Right and the fact that we did just start with six
and it was a very gradualincrease.
It was a commitment on our part.
We opened the first house thatwe would not open a second until
we were sure we had a goodleader and that the house was in
an acceptable neighborhood andthat we could afford it and all
that, and we thought we couldfill it.
(09:21):
So it did happen gradually andit's really important that we
not just try to blow it upovernight, you know so.
But yeah, there were challengesalong the way and one of them
was leadership.
You know we do want this to bea peer led program.
We want people leading thehouses and now the apartments
that have been through theprocess themselves, as Pastor
(09:42):
Bill says.
You know we don't want travelagents, we want tour guides, we
want people going to talk aboutthe path of recovery, we want
people who have been on it andcan take you along with them.
So we need a good leaders, andno-transcript Leaders fail, you
know.
They relapse.
But again, supervision has beena key to really be plugged in
that this is so much more thanjust a place where you pay your
quote, rent every week and thenwe don't care what you do.
(10:04):
We do so Until we had otherleaders.
You know I had to be very, verypresent and make sure what was
going on in the houses.
You know we've heard so manyhorror stories of things that
happen in what one might call asober living house.
That's no such thing and if wedon't do our part, we're just
doing a real disservice topeople who are serious about
recovery.
(10:24):
So it that was one of thebiggest challenges is making
sure we had leaders whothemselves were serious about
recovery, and Oftentimes thosepeople they don't necessarily
have a whole lot of time inrecovery, but we're seeing the
potential for them to lead.
So that was a big challenge.
One of the bigger challengesthat a lot of nonprofits face
early on is funding, of course,and we're really, really blessed
(10:46):
from day one of restorationhouse that the department of
mental health substance abuseservices In Tennessee provided
us a really large grant that wegot monthly.
So that really helped and itallowed us to do things for
people that maybe some otherhouses can't do.
But that big challenge ofleadership, which leads to
another challenge, is theheartbreak of this kind of work.
(11:07):
You know that for me, because Ihad not been around this.
It wasn't, hadn't been a partof my life, all my life seeing
addiction and the toll it takes.
And so you know, and again, I'ma I'm a hands-on person and I
do this because I really careabout people.
So I tend to get close topeople and then to see people
relapse and go back out andsometimes die or Sometimes
(11:31):
really pour my life into someone, you know, to pour our
resources into someone and thenwhen they relapse they want to
put that back on us and, youknow, literally stab us in the
back or in me personally.
You know I've had threats andso those things like that.
You know I had to learn Reallyearly on that, rick, that you
know when people relapse, that'snot my fault.
I had a mentor that told me,hey, you're not that powerful,
(11:52):
so I had to learn.
You know it's not my, my, whatI did.
You know it was their choiceand you know I probably was a
pretty, I was probablycode-appendant for sure when I
started this.
So I had to Let go of thosecontrolling things.
You know we have boundaries butwe don't try to control people.
You know you can live withinthe boundaries or you can leave,
(12:13):
but yeah, just, it took a lotof change in myself.
You know, for us to grow thisprogram.
I had to grow or we weren'tgonna be successful.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, so Chris has talked about in the past about
like he knew that when he gotinto recovery he needed to buy a
nice suit because he knew he'dbe attending funerals, and so
I'm curious if you talk aboutsome of the times that like
hardships that you faced or evenfelt hopeless in this work.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I don't think I was ever without hope, because I
believe if there's like there'shope and that's something we do
here at restoration we don'tgive up on anybody.
Now it might be that you haveto leave because you're making
the program unsafe.
It might be that you're notable to come back.
We like to give lots of peoplesecond, third chances.
But if you've made the programunsafe for others, but even
(13:04):
though people might not comeback, or they do or they're gone
, they're out there.
If they're alive, there's hopefor them.
And I think that's really whatkeeps me in this field is that I
do believe there's hope.
I've seen it.
I know that people's lives canbe turned around, and we deal
with a lot of people who do comehere and they are hopeless.
(13:25):
You know we're there last shotsometimes, and that's what we're
here to do.
Really, I think to bedispensers of hope, to say, hey,
look at Chris, if you thinkyou're hopeless, well, listen
where he came in here and wherehe is now.
We actually have the proof thatyou can have hope.
And so I've never have felthopeless, but definitely there's
(13:46):
been discouraging dayscertainly and it's been tied to
you know, losing people, to seepeople go back out and die, you
know so needlessly.
It just doesn't have to endthat way.
I hate it when that's theending, but I do know for every
addict that dies, I believe thelives are safe because they see,
wow, that could be me and Idon't want.
(14:08):
I don't want that to be myending.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, I know, just in my time here I came to scrub
all things out and I spent along time in active addiction.
But, you know, working inrecovery and and staying clean
served myself, you know, as awhole different ball game and
I've been able to Benefit fromall those lessons that you
learned through the years,because it's just Starting from
(14:32):
where you did to where it is now.
Were there ever moments whenyou felt like giving up?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, I mean there were times where I think those
hurts that came along the waywhere People that I never
thought like even valued,trusted employees that would
then just really betray theorganization and me.
It's very, very hurtful, youknow, and then I feel like why
(15:01):
am I doing this?
And I have to remember why am Idoing this and it's you know
this is not about me.
It's an opportunity to you know, in my case as a pastor, to
lead people to Christ really,where they'll really have a new
life.
And you know we were promisedin the scripture.
We talked about this in ourservice Sunday.
(15:22):
You will have troubles.
That's one of the promises.
So I've had people walk alongbeside me when I went through
those times where I really didwant to quit and it wasn't
because it was just because Iwas hurt.
You know it's really painful,it really hurts when people act
like that and you know just sayreally hateful, mean things.
(15:43):
You know those accusations ofyou're just all about the money
if they could only see you knowhow we weren't or that you know
that just crazy stories theywould go out and tell like I was
getting kickbacks from a court.
You know Just really hurtfulthings that I'm like what?
So those were, those are daysthat are hard.
(16:04):
You know that I'm like, well, Idon't do this anymore.
You know I really want to dothis.
I've said that before.
But there's always beensomebody did, you know, to reel
me back in and say, hey, come onnow, let's get focused.
Why are you here and why aren'tyou expecting these things?
You know we work with peoplewho are sick and when they're
not using that act differently.
But when they start using again, then they're really not the
(16:26):
same person.
And I've had people who saythose horrible, ugly things that
are so crushing and then latercome back and say I'm so sorry.
You know, that was my addictiontalking and I'm really sorry
for the way I hurt you.
So you know, like I said, I'mglad for the people around me
who, in those difficult times,didn't say yeah, you're right,
go ahead, quit, you know.
(16:46):
But and?
And what keeps me?
You know, what is so importantto for any nonprofit is those
people who believe in us andsupport us, and that Realizing
that they believe in what we'redoing, we believe in it.
And whoever thought this wasgonna be easy, you know, it's
just not gonna be.
It is not easy work.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Well, I know that me personally.
I've learned about forgiveness,mercy and grace here like I
never have my entire life, Iguess because so much was showed
to me.
But I watched day in and dayout everybody that's involved in
this organization.
They literally emptiedthemselves out and the work
that's done here and I and I seethis is where I learned not
(17:32):
grow weary and doing good.
And sometimes I look at it andlike damn, I don't know if I can
put up with that for 13 years,just constant pushing forward,
pushing through the hard times,because it does.
We hate to see people go backto a way they know is not going
to work.
But I know that I've learnedthose things here and I'm glad
you learned the lessons for us.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
If I could tell you a story about that scripture
don't become weary andwell-doing.
Early on, when I first beganworking really in compassionate
stuff and working with folksalong Murfreesboro Road, I used
to teach a Bible study onWednesday night and on Wednesday
night this guy came up to thechurch where I was and they
brought him to me.
Anybody came up wanting moneyor whatever.
They said, well, take him tothe pastor's seat.
(18:13):
So he comes up and he says if Icould just have $5.
And I said look, I don't givepeople money, I just don't like
to give cash.
We'll get you food.
He said no, listen, I needpropane to heat my house or some
type of fuel to heat theirhouse here.
My family's cold.
So I just felt impressed togive it to him.
So I said I'm gonna give youthis money and if you go out and
use that for drugs, I'm justgonna pray God will get you, so
(18:37):
don't do it.
He said no, ma'am, I promiseyou it's for what I'm saying.
So I said, okay, so, againstwhat I normally do, I gave him
the money and then a coupleweeks later and he even said
I'll pay you back and I'm likeokay, no, need, it's a gift,
whatever.
So a couple weeks later I'm inthere teaching and they come
back.
His name was Billy.
They said, hey, billy's hereagain.
And right away I thought he ishere for more money.
(18:59):
He was there to pay that $5back and that really taught me a
lesson about not judging peopleand I put that $5 in my Bible
in this right where thescripture is do not become weary
and well-doing.
And my kids would see thatmoney.
Sometimes they say can I havethat $5?
I said no, that $5 is areminder to me that you know,
(19:22):
when somebody walks in the doorshere and says, hey, I'm in the
administration house, I don'tknow, and I've heard leaders do
things like this say, huh, thatone ain't gonna make it.
Or you know, I used to workwith a woman on drug court team
who said, hey, I guess I can saythis on my bullshit meter's
really pegging on this one.
They are never gonna make it.
We don't do that and a lot ofthe reason is because that one
situation where I thought he wasback there to ask for more
(19:45):
money and he was there to pay itback that what I think is not
necessarily right.
Everybody comes in here with ablank slate, not the winners and
the losers.
The program is set up foreverybody to succeed.
It's their choices that makethe difference, and we're here
for everyone.
And we're not writing anybodyoff at the beginning or any
point in time.
Like I said, if they're alive,they're still hope.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, well, now that we're talking about weariness,
the work we do leaves usexhausted at the end of the day,
and I think we can all agreethat, like, we feel good about
how tired we are at the end ofthe day because our time was
well spent.
And I'm just curious because mywife points out that I'm tired
when I get home.
And I'm curious what drives youtoday, Because you well Tina
does not work 40 hours a week.
(20:28):
I don't know how many hours itis, but it's a lot, because I
get emails at midnight sometimesand I'm curious what drives you
to keep pushing and find theenergy to continue doing what
you do.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, you two people are part of the reason.
You know, having a wonderfulteam.
It's so important and we are soincredibly blessed to have
folks that we do.
I don't work as much as I usedto.
I did at the beginning.
It's almost like starting abusiness.
You have to really pouryourself into it and now I'm
(21:05):
really getting to sit back andsee the rewards of that early
work.
But what I think is reallyimportant and I would say this
to recovering people and peoplewho work in recovery self-care
is key.
It's key to us here in ourpolicies.
Like our full-time people, theyhave the weekends off.
They're supposed to take it.
(21:26):
You know I'm on call duringthose times.
Sometimes they don't do it, butyou know I wouldn't have made
it this far in this line of workhad I not changed some of my
practices about self-careBecause it didn't used to do so
well.
And you know, yes, you will getemails in the middle of the
night because I'm old and I wakeup in the middle of the night
and then my brain startsthinking I can't go back to
(21:48):
sleep.
I'm like, well, I've never sentemail about that.
I sent emails to myself.
So don't forget what I'msupposed to do.
But overall I feel like I have areally balanced life today and
the reason that I can leave thisplace and go home and rest is
because the people everyone hereis doing their job.
I don't have to worry about issomething crazy going on at Kid
(22:10):
Power today, because I knowyou're not gonna let that happen
and I don't have to worry about.
Oh wow, is our house like thoseothers?
Are people over there drinkingand drugging in the house, you
know are men and women runningthrough each other's houses?
I don't have to worry aboutthat Because I know I've got
Chris and his team that theylove the program like I do.
That's been passed on to a newgeneration that cares as much as
(22:33):
I do that they're not gonna letanybody do that to our program,
so I'm able to again.
This is I've been at this a longtime, but I'm at a place in
life right now andprofessionally where I can
really think about legacy.
And what do I wanna do in theyears that I have left to see
(22:54):
that this continues, becausethat's really important to me.
It's kind of like a baby thatwas birth.
You want it to keep growing andgrow up and have children of
its own all that, but having awonderful staff is really key to
that.
And then encouraging them totake care of themselves while I
take care of myself, it's justreally key for working in this
(23:15):
field.
There's something calledcompassion fatigue and people
who work in compassionate fields.
They will burn out and then forthose who are addicts and
alcoholics, they'll lead torelapse if they don't do
self-care.
So it's really important and Iencourage people who might be
listening If you work in thefield or if you're a recovering
(23:37):
person, that you have to takecare of yourself.
Some people say it's a selfishprogram and we do have to look
out for ourselves or we're notgonna be able to help anybody
else.
So that's what I have to do.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I'm curious I'd like to back up a minute and so you
talked about when you startedthis program that you didn't
know a lot about recovery andaddiction.
And so I'm curious what aresome of the biggest changes in
belief and mindset you havetoday and what you want other
people to know about addiction?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Right, and I would say, when I started going into
the jail I didn't know anythingabout it.
By the time I startedRestoration House I had a really
legalistic idea, and thebiggest changes were just me and
a person as a whole.
I had been a really legalisticChristian.
I understand people listeningto this may not understand that,
but so a best definition Icould give is like being more
concerned about what I do thanwho I am, and I had this whole
(24:28):
log of dos and don'ts.
I mean it would be embarrassingfor me to tell you the things
that I believed, and I believedGod cared about a lot of things
that today I don't think he does.
And what I believed aboutaddiction and alcoholism.
I just certainly did notbelieve it was a disease.
You know, I thought this issomething you chose to do.
I had no idea about the loss ofa power to choose If people, I
(24:52):
cared about people who weredrinking and drugging and I had
a wonderful plan for your life.
But I really thought it was allabout choice and that if people
were drunk it's because theywanted to be, and so that's
really.
Some of the biggest changes forme is learning about the science
of addiction, learning aboutthe brain disease.
Yes, there is an element ofchoice there, but once an addict
(25:15):
makes that choice to pick up,it's not all about choice
anymore.
And so we're here to helppeople develop those tools so
they don't pick back up.
And that was big for meRealizing that people aren't in
this because they want to be,and also learning about trauma
(25:36):
and realizing my own trauma andhow that played a part in my
life.
I would have told you I didn'thave any trauma growing up.
Yeah, I did, and I figured thatout and worked on my own pain
and realizing that people arereally acting out of just
unmedicated pain, not havingdealt with their childhood
trauma.
We believe everybody's got somelevel of that.
(25:59):
But I think for me that was abig learning experience too to
realize that in this program wehave to get beneath that drugs
and alcohol that's just asymptom of a bigger thing and
getting there and helping peopleto work on that and receive
healing, because otherwise it'sjust like if you've got a broken
leg man, you've got to get to adoctor.
(26:19):
You just can't live with thatpain.
If that bone's shooting outyour leg, you've got to do
something.
People who have had suchextreme trauma that they are in
so much pain, they will look forsomething to medicate that pain
.
They have to.
You cannot walk around withthat, and so we want to help
them get the healing they need,so that pain is not so great for
(26:42):
them and that they can haveother tools to deal with the
pain than to just turn to drugsand alcohol.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I know we talked about some of the low points,
but I would like to along theway.
Is there one moment during theseveral years you've been doing
this that it was like success,that you seen that your love and
care and investment was payingoff?
Is there any moments alongthere?
Like I said, it's grown so muchover the years the building the
(27:15):
participants get to be in.
Is there anything that juststands out during that time?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Those moments are just all about people.
It's just to see people who had200 arrests now have 13 years
clean, to see someone like youwho, literally, you've been
raised from death to life.
This is just kind of a sidenote.
One of the things that I loveseeing is when people do get
(27:42):
healthy and then they're able tohave healthy relationships, and
we've seen people get marriedas a result of this program and
have healthy marriages.
Just to see, and then thattells me this generational cycle
is being broken, that that nextgeneration, so any high point,
anything that I would say.
That's just the best part ofthis.
(28:03):
It's always going to beconnected to a story and just
unbelievable.
We could tell so many storiesall day and there are people who
would listen and say there isno way.
That's true, but it is, and soit's just amazing how they can
and do change and really how theprogram works.
It really does work.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And outside the people.
I don't think that when youtalked about gave a general
information about Crossbridge, Idon't think you talked too much
about what we currently arecelebrating, what's going on in
our facility now.
Originally, we started inhouses that we were renting and
stuff like that, and so I wantto give you an opportunity for
us to celebrate that's something.
That's not people, that's wherewe're at.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Oh yeah, we have this big, beautiful facility and we
knew when we used to have ninehouses out in the community that
was so challenging to reallysupervise and for our staff to
get to each one.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
And vans going everywhere.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yes, exactly.
And we were able to buy aproperty that had two women's
houses.
So we moved all the women overhere and it had two empty lots
that I had a vision that Iwanted to build on and I knew we
wanted corporate offices there,we wanted meeting spaces to be
able to do programming and wewanted apartments.
Well, actually I just wantedhousing and then when I talked
to a general contractor he said,hey, the best way to do this is
(29:18):
apartments.
You know, build up, don't buildout.
So we decided on thismulti-story building, and just
to have everybody here on thisone campus has made such a
change in our program.
I think.
Supervision is easier,availability of staff is easier
and just the miracle I meanreally that we have this
(29:40):
building and that it's debt-freebecause of some amazing grants
and now being able to renovateour women's houses again through
grants.
I mean, if people who might belistening, who are not
associated with us, could comeand look at the housing we have
here, they'd say this isrecovery housing, because I
don't think there's anythinglike it, or certainly not very
(30:01):
many places that this is wherethe living environment for
people in recovery is so amazingand we think that environment's
important.
It speaks value to them Like,yeah, this is a wonderful place
I live in.
They must really think I'mvaluable because we do.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Thank you yeah and I said something that's not about
people, but the reality is isthat we've had a lot of very
generous people help make thishappen.
So I'm curious what does what'syour vision look like for
crossbridge for the future orcontinued growth?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
You know, that's something that I think about a
lot, and I see people who arewhat I would call visionaries
and they start, let's say, youknow McDonald's and they got one
, and then they want ten, andthey want fifty, and then they
want the world wide, whatever.
And I really don't have thosekinds of desires I don't think
(30:56):
that's because I'm old, you know, and maybe it'll be the next
leader that says, hey, we wantcrossbridge Chad Nugget.
Yeah or we want crossbridge youknow Birmingham, I don't know,
maybe they will and I'll be allfor it or restoration house in
those other cities.
What I do see that I would liketo see us do I would like to
(31:17):
see us do outpatient treatmentsomeday and I want to see us do
some housing for women withchildren, because it is such a
huge need.
Many times, when women aregraduating this program, they're
they're able to get theirchildren back.
But where can you go?
You know we are located inNashville, where rents are
outrageous.
So to have some housing forwomen where their kids could
(31:40):
reside, we can't do that here,and I mean maybe in the future,
you know it could be men withchildren there are men who have
their kids too so, but just andreally more Availability of
housing for people as theytransition.
I would love to have anapartment complex where our
alumni could move into it and,you know, live there and it be
(32:01):
affordable, because there's justnot affordable housing in
Nashville and many of them needto live Close to the bus line,
which puts them in the downtownarea, which is very expensive.
So for me it's like expandingthat and then, with our kid
power program, I mean I'd loveto see us be able to do more
with families.
We're gonna hopefully open acenter on the fifth floor of
(32:24):
this building at some point.
I think that'll give us theavenue to reach out more to
parents and offer some servicesto parents.
So I don't have this biggrandiose dream of there being
cross bridge nationwide.
I just really don't.
And but again, maybe it's likeI said, that may be the future
for cross bridge when someoneelse wants to take it to those
(32:44):
levels.
But for me those things Iidentified really Intense.
About patient treatment, Ithink is really important.
I think that some of thetreatment that's offered is not
really helping people so muchand I know that we could do that
.
And then again that big, bigneed for housing for women with
children and for our folks thatgraduate here.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
For those of us who don't know what that means, can
you tell us what outpatient?
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
well, there's residential treatment, where you
would live at a facility andyou don't leave, or anything
like 28 day treatment, where theperson lives in a treatment
facility and they basically goto treatment all day, intensive
outpatient as you do come fourdays a week, usually three hours
a day, but you live outside thefacility and so it is an
(33:31):
intensive, you know, like 12hours a week continuing in
treatment.
But it does allow people stillthe time to work or to live at
home with their families or tolive perhaps in restoration
house.
So 28 day treatment is 99.9% notenough for people you either
got to go on to sober living,and for many people, the next
(33:51):
step is Just it's usually a 16week Intensive outpatient
treatment that I think that wecould do a lot of good with that
.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Chris, you got any other questions?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No, I'm just glad that people are getting an
opportunity to see the wonderfulperson that we work for and
that Me you've mentioned.
You know this, I'm Always quickto tell people what restoration
, cross bridge but has done forme.
But it was the relationshipsI've had you know during that
that it's doing goods contagious, you know.
(34:28):
And seeing you, pastor bill,sure, everybody's involved just
constantly doing everything theycan to give someone the the
best opportunity to change theirlife.
You know I'm blessed to be partof that.
But it all starts, you know,working with you guys.
You know, because I wanted whatyou had, even though you wasn't
.
You know, necessarily we'recoming from substance use.
(34:49):
I heard you all the time userecovery principles, you know,
and that you know.
You just, you want to have thatpurpose in your life.
And I tell participants all thetime, you know, because there's
so many participants there's noway to get to, to know every
one of them in debt personallyand and I tell them all the time
I've had to bless and get toknow you personally and just how
(35:10):
much this Organization means toyou, the people in it, the
people at work here.
So I'm just I'm really glad yougot to come on and kind of, so
people can see where it startedat, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, right here, and you know I'm really grateful
that I've got to be able to dothis with my life.
The older I get, the more I'mimpressed, and just remember
that we do only get one life.
There's no dress rehearsal,this is it, and I want this one
life to count for something thatwill outlive me, and I believe
that it will yeah, and before weclose out, want to give you an
(35:42):
opportunity to share with peoplehow they can get involved with
crossbridge.
Well, they can get involved.
If they need help, they can gettouch with us and see if they'd
be a good candidate for theprogram, but also they can give
on our website.
You've heard us talk about kidpower, new power, today and
perhaps you could be a mentorand you know, just come be a
(36:03):
part of what we're doing here.
We do have an opportunity foroutsiders to be with us on
Sundays and Tuesdays, so I'massuming through the podcast
people know how to get in touchwith us.
Yeah so just reach out and weall always need donations of
things like clothing, hygieneproducts, things like that that
most our folks come in here withnothing, so the kinds of things
that people would need justgetting started.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thanks for joining us today.
Addiction isn't going to getsomething get better with
tougher laws.
It's going to come from peoplesharing their stories.
So we know every person's storyis impactful and it matters.
So thanks for joining us today.
Welcome back to Unpolished Recovery.
My name is Trey.
Most stories of recovery startwith how a bad addiction was,
how they enter recovery and howgreat life is now.
That's a polished story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is Chris.
I'm your co-host of UnpolishedRecovery.
Today we have a very specialguest.
We have Pastor Tina Mitchell,who is the executive director
and founder of Crossbridge.
Thanks for joining us, pastorTina.
Thanks for having me.
So I've told people beforeyou're my, my mentor and you're
the one actually inspired me towork in recovery, because I've
(00:32):
seen you just given To thecommunity just tirelessly in a.
So do you want to just startout by giving us some general
information about Crossbridge?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sure Crossbridge is a nonprofit that's committed to
providing programming that willend destructive cycles,
particularly generationalpoverty, addiction and
incarceration.
And oftentimes addiction,incarceration ends up being a
result of generational poverty,and these, all of these cycles
really are generational cycles.
(01:02):
What we have seen is thataddiction, incarceration, when
you begin to look at it, thatit's been a generational cycle
in families, so withoutintervention, these cycles won't
be broken.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So that's what we're trying to do and just I may, as
she has started with this.
But we talk about kid power,youth power, restoration house
on some way.
You explain just kind of howCrossbridge Overseas all these
things right.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So in trying to break those cycles, you know we want
to work preventively with kidsso that before they ever need
the restorative part ofCrossbridge Restoration house,
perhaps we can break the cyclesbefore these kids ever get
involved in drugs or alcohol.
So that's what our kid power,youth power program is about.
It's a prevention program, it'smentoring, and mentoring is
(01:49):
shown to Scientifically, it'sproven that it can mitigate the
damage of toxic stress and ourchildren living in an
environment that Creates toxicstress.
So if we don't try to mitigatethat damage oftentimes evidence
is also there They'll turn todrugs and alcohol.
So we're trying to break thecycle there.
And then on the restorativeside we're working with people
(02:10):
who didn't have kid power, newpower, and had those cycles
begin in their life and you know, have many times just destroyed
just about everything in theirlife and we're trying to help
them kind of put that backtogether and restore, you know,
a great life for them.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Can't how long.
How long ago did you startEverything in the motion?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, I found it in 2006.
We didn't start any programtill 2009 and in those three
years we were trying to raise alittle bit of funding and really
just decide what it is wewanted to do, and because we
knew we wanted to have qualityprogramming and You'd told me
before, but when you firststarted the restoration side, it
was just one house right.
(02:53):
One house with six beds all menand then today, what do we have
?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
how many beds we?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
have 74 beds, 53, I think, for men.
Well, that would be 77, uh 24for women.
But we are expanding thewomen's program.
I'm going to be adding 10 morebeds.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's just grown tremendously through the yeah,
it's massive.
Uh, would you mind telling us alittle bit like what, what led
you to start?
You know, cross bridge, whatwas kind of going on at that
time?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Right, um, I was on staff at a church, uh, in an
area that has a lot of drugs andalcohol.
It's really considered a majorthoroughfare in Nashville for
drugs and prostitution.
So I believe this, the start ofcross bridge, is just born out
of seeing a need, and every dayI drove up and down this road,
murphysboro road or MurphysboroPike, and I saw the suffering
(03:46):
that was out there.
And then I had an opportunityto begin to go into jail and
Really for worship services.
But then I began to see thiscycle.
Uh, I was in the women'sbuilding at first, alone only
women, and I would see women gohome and then a couple weeks
later they were back.
So there was this revolvingdoor of them Continuing to come
back.
And I had no history ofaddiction, I didn't know
(04:08):
anything about it and I'm likewhy these people keep coming
back?
You know why don't you want togo to jail?
And then, uh, just throughworking with some recovery
people, with some recoveryprograms, I ended up on the
treatment team for, um, ourrecovery court in Nashville.
I began to learn why peoplecome back.
Because without the resourcesand the interventions that are
(04:29):
needed, you know they justreturn to the same situations
and you get the same oldbehavior.
So for me, the very beginning ofit was just seeing the
suffering and wanting to dosomething about that need, not
not being willing to just keeplooking at it and do nothing.
Matter of fact, I told my bossat the time we're either going
to do more in this community orI'm not going to come here,
(04:50):
because I lived at that time ina city called Franklin.
It's an affluent place and youdidn't see that kind of
suffering.
They just don't even allow it.
They'll bring you up here inNashville.
You know they're not gonna letthe homeless people run around
and, you know, mess up theirpretty environment.
So I could just stay away fromhere because it was
heartbreaking to me to see whatI was seeing out there and not
(05:10):
do anything about it, and Ireally felt like we weren't
doing anything.
So I said and so I, you know,as a faith-based person, I
really believe God put it on myheart and it was just such a
passion for me that I had to dosomething or I had to get away
from it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Why Crossbridge?
How did that name come about?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
That's kind of funny, because I wanted the name
Bridge and when the attorneythat was setting up the
nonprofit tried to set that up,he said you can't have that name
, it's already taken.
I said no, I really need thatname.
He said you can't have it.
So I asked someone who is nowco-director of Restoration House
, bill Hart, say, hey, you'rereally great with acronyms and
(05:49):
names, what can we put with it?
And it wasn't long at all.
He just said what aboutCrossbridge?
I said, oh, that's perfect,because Bridge a bridge is a
connector, and so Crossbridge istrying to connect people with
certain things and, of course,being faith-based, we believe
the Cross is the connection toGod through Jesus Christ, but
(06:09):
we're wanting to connect them toso much more than just a
relationship with God.
We want to connect them to theservices that they need and
ultimately, crossbridge as awhole, we're connecting people
with, like our children thatthey would go on to higher
education, connecting peoplehere, reconnecting them with
family sometimes.
So it's really about makingthose connections and that's
(06:32):
what a bridge is.
The bridge is actually anacronym that stands for building
oh my gosh, I haven't had tosay this a long time building
community leaders, I think R isoh my gosh, I'm not going to go
through this right now.
All right, we're going to editthat out.
I can't believe it.
I say it all the time.
So you got to edit that out.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Can you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I mean I'll think about it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Okay, all right.
Well no, d is developing lifeskills, g is giving back we want
people to give back and E iselevating people.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So that's anyway so that might stay in the episode.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, great.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I've mentioned before I'm the operations
manager on the recovery side,kids director, trace the kid,
the director over kid power andyouth power.
But on the recovery side whenyou mentioned it was one house,
six beds.
Through those changes were youinvolved in day to day, like,
were you ground level, likegetting it started?
(07:35):
What was that like?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Absolutely.
At the beginning I was very,very involved and there's some
benefits to that.
You know there's somedisadvantages, but yeah, I knew
everybody's name and I like that.
I knew their stories.
A lot of our clients came fromdrug court so I knew a lot about
them through the drug courtprocess as well.
But yeah, I mean, it waseverything from renting the
(07:57):
houses, determining who would bethe leads in the houses,
setting up utilities, everything.
You know I had another helperwho you know we were both just
part time, weren't getting paidany money, just just to get it
going, and so yeah, but I wasvery involved in the beginning
of Crossbridge as a whole.
You know, I say we had to raisemoney.
You can't do these thingswithout money.
(08:18):
So planning our first event sowe could raise money to start
our kids program, so yeah, itwas quite a task at the
beginning and then of course wegrew and that allowed us to hire
more staff.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, just during my time here in the last several
years I've seen it grow, butit's always been this well run,
stable program, nala nonsense.
So I always find it fascinatingstarting out with one house,
six beds.
You know how it got from thatpoint to now.
What are some of thedifficulties you run into.
You know like was it hard to.
(08:51):
I know you went from one houseto many before you had the newer
facilities, like you know whatare some of the obstacles with
that trying to get places formore beds.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Right and the fact that we did just start with six
and it was a very gradualincrease.
It was a commitment on our part.
We opened the first house thatwe would not open a second until
we were sure we had a goodleader and that the house was in
an acceptable neighborhood andthat we could afford it and all
that, and we thought we couldfill it.
(09:21):
So it did happen gradually andit's really important that we
not just try to blow it upovernight, you know so.
But yeah, there were challengesalong the way and one of them
was leadership.
You know we do want this to bea peer led program.
We want people leading thehouses and now the apartments
that have been through theprocess themselves, as Pastor
(09:42):
Bill says.
You know we don't want travelagents, we want tour guides, we
want people going to talk aboutthe path of recovery, we want
people who have been on it andcan take you along with them.
So we need a good leaders, andno-transcript Leaders fail, you
know.
They relapse.
But again, supervision has beena key to really be plugged in
that this is so much more thanjust a place where you pay your
quote, rent every week and thenwe don't care what you do.
(10:04):
We do so Until we had otherleaders.
You know I had to be very, verypresent and make sure what was
going on in the houses.
You know we've heard so manyhorror stories of things that
happen in what one might call asober living house.
That's no such thing and if wedon't do our part, we're just
doing a real disservice topeople who are serious about
recovery.
(10:24):
So it that was one of thebiggest challenges is making
sure we had leaders whothemselves were serious about
recovery, and Oftentimes thosepeople they don't necessarily
have a whole lot of time inrecovery, but we're seeing the
potential for them to lead.
So that was a big challenge.
One of the bigger challengesthat a lot of nonprofits face
early on is funding, of course,and we're really, really blessed
(10:46):
from day one of restorationhouse that the department of
mental health substance abuseservices In Tennessee provided
us a really large grant that wegot monthly.
So that really helped and itallowed us to do things for
people that maybe some otherhouses can't do.
But that big challenge ofleadership, which leads to
another challenge, is theheartbreak of this kind of work.
(11:07):
You know that for me, because Ihad not been around this.
It wasn't, hadn't been a partof my life, all my life seeing
addiction and the toll it takes.
And so you know, and again, I'ma I'm a hands-on person and I
do this because I really careabout people.
So I tend to get close topeople and then to see people
relapse and go back out andsometimes die or Sometimes
(11:31):
really pour my life into someone, you know, to pour our
resources into someone and thenwhen they relapse they want to
put that back on us and, youknow, literally stab us in the
back or in me personally.
You know I've had threats andso those things like that.
You know I had to learn Reallyearly on that, rick, that you
know when people relapse, that'snot my fault.
I had a mentor that told me,hey, you're not that powerful,
(11:52):
so I had to learn.
You know it's not my, my, whatI did.
You know it was their choiceand you know I probably was a
pretty, I was probablycode-appendant for sure when I
started this.
So I had to Let go of thosecontrolling things.
You know we have boundaries butwe don't try to control people.
You know you can live withinthe boundaries or you can leave,
(12:13):
but yeah, just, it took a lotof change in myself.
You know, for us to grow thisprogram.
I had to grow or we weren'tgonna be successful.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, so Chris has talked about in the past about
like he knew that when he gotinto recovery he needed to buy a
nice suit because he knew he'dbe attending funerals, and so
I'm curious if you talk aboutsome of the times that like
hardships that you faced or evenfelt hopeless in this work.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I don't think I was ever without hope, because I
believe if there's like there'shope and that's something we do
here at restoration we don'tgive up on anybody.
Now it might be that you haveto leave because you're making
the program unsafe.
It might be that you're notable to come back.
We like to give lots of peoplesecond, third chances.
But if you've made the programunsafe for others, but even
(13:04):
though people might not comeback, or they do or they're gone
, they're out there.
If they're alive, there's hopefor them.
And I think that's really whatkeeps me in this field is that I
do believe there's hope.
I've seen it.
I know that people's lives canbe turned around, and we deal
with a lot of people who do comehere and they are hopeless.
(13:25):
You know we're there last shotsometimes, and that's what we're
here to do.
Really, I think to bedispensers of hope, to say, hey,
look at Chris, if you thinkyou're hopeless, well, listen
where he came in here and wherehe is now.
We actually have the proof thatyou can have hope.
And so I've never have felthopeless, but definitely there's
(13:46):
been discouraging dayscertainly and it's been tied to
you know, losing people, to seepeople go back out and die, you
know so needlessly.
It just doesn't have to endthat way.
I hate it when that's theending, but I do know for every
addict that dies, I believe thelives are safe because they see,
wow, that could be me and Idon't want.
(14:08):
I don't want that to be myending.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, I know, just in my time here I came to scrub
all things out and I spent along time in active addiction.
But, you know, working inrecovery and and staying clean
served myself, you know, as awhole different ball game and
I've been able to Benefit fromall those lessons that you
learned through the years,because it's just Starting from
(14:32):
where you did to where it is now.
Were there ever moments whenyou felt like giving up?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, I mean there were times where I think those
hurts that came along the waywhere People that I never
thought like even valued,trusted employees that would
then just really betray theorganization and me.
It's very, very hurtful, youknow, and then I feel like why
(15:01):
am I doing this?
And I have to remember why am Idoing this and it's you know
this is not about me.
It's an opportunity to you know, in my case as a pastor, to
lead people to Christ really,where they'll really have a new
life.
And you know we were promisedin the scripture.
We talked about this in ourservice Sunday.
(15:22):
You will have troubles.
That's one of the promises.
So I've had people walk alongbeside me when I went through
those times where I really didwant to quit and it wasn't
because it was just because Iwas hurt.
You know it's really painful,it really hurts when people act
like that and you know just sayreally hateful, mean things.
(15:43):
You know those accusations ofyou're just all about the money
if they could only see you knowhow we weren't or that you know
that just crazy stories theywould go out and tell like I was
getting kickbacks from a court.
You know Just really hurtfulthings that I'm like what?
So those were, those are daysthat are hard.
(16:04):
You know that I'm like, well, Idon't do this anymore.
You know I really want to dothis.
I've said that before.
But there's always beensomebody did, you know, to reel
me back in and say, hey, come onnow, let's get focused.
Why are you here and why aren'tyou expecting these things?
You know we work with peoplewho are sick and when they're
not using that act differently.
But when they start using again, then they're really not the
(16:26):
same person.
And I've had people who saythose horrible, ugly things that
are so crushing and then latercome back and say I'm so sorry.
You know, that was my addictiontalking and I'm really sorry
for the way I hurt you.
So you know, like I said, I'mglad for the people around me
who, in those difficult times,didn't say yeah, you're right,
go ahead, quit, you know.
(16:46):
But and?
And what keeps me?
You know, what is so importantto for any nonprofit is those
people who believe in us andsupport us, and that Realizing
that they believe in what we'redoing, we believe in it.
And whoever thought this wasgonna be easy, you know, it's
just not gonna be.
It is not easy work.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Well, I know that me personally.
I've learned about forgiveness,mercy and grace here like I
never have my entire life, Iguess because so much was showed
to me.
But I watched day in and dayout everybody that's involved in
this organization.
They literally emptiedthemselves out and the work
that's done here and I and I seethis is where I learned not
(17:32):
grow weary and doing good.
And sometimes I look at it andlike damn, I don't know if I can
put up with that for 13 years,just constant pushing forward,
pushing through the hard times,because it does.
We hate to see people go backto a way they know is not going
to work.
But I know that I've learnedthose things here and I'm glad
you learned the lessons for us.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
If I could tell you a story about that scripture
don't become weary andwell-doing.
Early on, when I first beganworking really in compassionate
stuff and working with folksalong Murfreesboro Road, I used
to teach a Bible study onWednesday night and on Wednesday
night this guy came up to thechurch where I was and they
brought him to me.
Anybody came up wanting moneyor whatever.
They said, well, take him tothe pastor's seat.
(18:13):
So he comes up and he says if Icould just have $5.
And I said look, I don't givepeople money, I just don't like
to give cash.
We'll get you food.
He said no, listen, I needpropane to heat my house or some
type of fuel to heat theirhouse here.
My family's cold.
So I just felt impressed togive it to him.
So I said I'm gonna give youthis money and if you go out and
use that for drugs, I'm justgonna pray God will get you, so
(18:37):
don't do it.
He said no, ma'am, I promiseyou it's for what I'm saying.
So I said, okay, so, againstwhat I normally do, I gave him
the money and then a coupleweeks later and he even said
I'll pay you back and I'm likeokay, no, need, it's a gift,
whatever.
So a couple weeks later I'm inthere teaching and they come
back.
His name was Billy.
They said, hey, billy's hereagain.
And right away I thought he ishere for more money.
(18:59):
He was there to pay that $5back and that really taught me a
lesson about not judging peopleand I put that $5 in my Bible
in this right where thescripture is do not become weary
and well-doing.
And my kids would see thatmoney.
Sometimes they say can I havethat $5?
I said no, that $5 is areminder to me that you know,
(19:22):
when somebody walks in the doorshere and says, hey, I'm in the
administration house, I don'tknow, and I've heard leaders do
things like this say, huh, thatone ain't gonna make it.
Or you know, I used to workwith a woman on drug court team
who said, hey, I guess I can saythis on my bullshit meter's
really pegging on this one.
They are never gonna make it.
We don't do that and a lot ofthe reason is because that one
situation where I thought he wasback there to ask for more
(19:45):
money and he was there to pay itback that what I think is not
necessarily right.
Everybody comes in here with ablank slate, not the winners and
the losers.
The program is set up foreverybody to succeed.
It's their choices that makethe difference, and we're here
for everyone.
And we're not writing anybodyoff at the beginning or any
point in time.
Like I said, if they're alive,they're still hope.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, well, now that we're talking about weariness,
the work we do leaves usexhausted at the end of the day,
and I think we can all agreethat, like, we feel good about
how tired we are at the end ofthe day because our time was
well spent.
And I'm just curious because mywife points out that I'm tired
when I get home.
And I'm curious what drives youtoday, Because you well Tina
does not work 40 hours a week.
(20:28):
I don't know how many hours itis, but it's a lot, because I
get emails at midnight sometimesand I'm curious what drives you
to keep pushing and find theenergy to continue doing what
you do.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, you two people are part of the reason.
You know, having a wonderfulteam.
It's so important and we are soincredibly blessed to have
folks that we do.
I don't work as much as I usedto.
I did at the beginning.
It's almost like starting abusiness.
You have to really pouryourself into it and now I'm
(21:05):
really getting to sit back andsee the rewards of that early
work.
But what I think is reallyimportant and I would say this
to recovering people and peoplewho work in recovery self-care
is key.
It's key to us here in ourpolicies.
Like our full-time people, theyhave the weekends off.
They're supposed to take it.
(21:26):
You know I'm on call duringthose times.
Sometimes they don't do it, butyou know I wouldn't have made
it this far in this line of workhad I not changed some of my
practices about self-careBecause it didn't used to do so
well.
And you know, yes, you will getemails in the middle of the
night because I'm old and I wakeup in the middle of the night
and then my brain startsthinking I can't go back to
(21:48):
sleep.
I'm like, well, I've never sentemail about that.
I sent emails to myself.
So don't forget what I'msupposed to do.
But overall I feel like I have areally balanced life today and
the reason that I can leave thisplace and go home and rest is
because the people everyone hereis doing their job.
I don't have to worry about issomething crazy going on at Kid
(22:10):
Power today, because I knowyou're not gonna let that happen
and I don't have to worry about.
Oh wow, is our house like thoseothers?
Are people over there drinkingand drugging in the house, you
know are men and women runningthrough each other's houses?
I don't have to worry aboutthat Because I know I've got
Chris and his team that theylove the program like I do.
That's been passed on to a newgeneration that cares as much as
(22:33):
I do that they're not gonna letanybody do that to our program,
so I'm able to again.
This is I've been at this a longtime, but I'm at a place in
life right now andprofessionally where I can
really think about legacy.
And what do I wanna do in theyears that I have left to see
(22:54):
that this continues, becausethat's really important to me.
It's kind of like a baby thatwas birth.
You want it to keep growing andgrow up and have children of
its own all that, but having awonderful staff is really key to
that.
And then encouraging them totake care of themselves while I
take care of myself, it's justreally key for working in this
(23:15):
field.
There's something calledcompassion fatigue and people
who work in compassionate fields.
They will burn out and then forthose who are addicts and
alcoholics, they'll lead torelapse if they don't do
self-care.
So it's really important and Iencourage people who might be
listening If you work in thefield or if you're a recovering
(23:37):
person, that you have to takecare of yourself.
Some people say it's a selfishprogram and we do have to look
out for ourselves or we're notgonna be able to help anybody
else.
So that's what I have to do.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I'm curious I'd like to back up a minute and so you
talked about when you startedthis program that you didn't
know a lot about recovery andaddiction.
And so I'm curious what aresome of the biggest changes in
belief and mindset you havetoday and what you want other
people to know about addiction?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Right, and I would say, when I started going into
the jail I didn't know anythingabout it.
By the time I startedRestoration House I had a really
legalistic idea, and thebiggest changes were just me and
a person as a whole.
I had been a really legalisticChristian.
I understand people listeningto this may not understand that,
but so a best definition Icould give is like being more
concerned about what I do thanwho I am, and I had this whole
(24:28):
log of dos and don'ts.
I mean it would be embarrassingfor me to tell you the things
that I believed, and I believedGod cared about a lot of things
that today I don't think he does.
And what I believed aboutaddiction and alcoholism.
I just certainly did notbelieve it was a disease.
You know, I thought this issomething you chose to do.
I had no idea about the loss ofa power to choose If people, I
(24:52):
cared about people who weredrinking and drugging and I had
a wonderful plan for your life.
But I really thought it was allabout choice and that if people
were drunk it's because theywanted to be, and so that's
really.
Some of the biggest changes forme is learning about the science
of addiction, learning aboutthe brain disease.
Yes, there is an element ofchoice there, but once an addict
(25:15):
makes that choice to pick up,it's not all about choice
anymore.
And so we're here to helppeople develop those tools so
they don't pick back up.
And that was big for meRealizing that people aren't in
this because they want to be,and also learning about trauma
(25:36):
and realizing my own trauma andhow that played a part in my
life.
I would have told you I didn'thave any trauma growing up.
Yeah, I did, and I figured thatout and worked on my own pain
and realizing that people arereally acting out of just
unmedicated pain, not havingdealt with their childhood
trauma.
We believe everybody's got somelevel of that.
(25:59):
But I think for me that was abig learning experience too to
realize that in this program wehave to get beneath that drugs
and alcohol that's just asymptom of a bigger thing and
getting there and helping peopleto work on that and receive
healing, because otherwise it'sjust like if you've got a broken
leg man, you've got to get to adoctor.
(26:19):
You just can't live with thatpain.
If that bone's shooting outyour leg, you've got to do
something.
People who have had suchextreme trauma that they are in
so much pain, they will look forsomething to medicate that pain
.
They have to.
You cannot walk around withthat, and so we want to help
them get the healing they need,so that pain is not so great for
(26:42):
them and that they can haveother tools to deal with the
pain than to just turn to drugsand alcohol.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I know we talked about some of the low points,
but I would like to along theway.
Is there one moment during theseveral years you've been doing
this that it was like success,that you seen that your love and
care and investment was payingoff?
Is there any moments alongthere?
Like I said, it's grown so muchover the years the building the
(27:15):
participants get to be in.
Is there anything that juststands out during that time?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Those moments are just all about people.
It's just to see people who had200 arrests now have 13 years
clean, to see someone like youwho, literally, you've been
raised from death to life.
This is just kind of a sidenote.
One of the things that I loveseeing is when people do get
(27:42):
healthy and then they're able tohave healthy relationships, and
we've seen people get marriedas a result of this program and
have healthy marriages.
Just to see, and then thattells me this generational cycle
is being broken, that that nextgeneration, so any high point,
anything that I would say.
That's just the best part ofthis.
(28:03):
It's always going to beconnected to a story and just
unbelievable.
We could tell so many storiesall day and there are people who
would listen and say there isno way.
That's true, but it is, and soit's just amazing how they can
and do change and really how theprogram works.
It really does work.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And outside the people.
I don't think that when youtalked about gave a general
information about Crossbridge, Idon't think you talked too much
about what we currently arecelebrating, what's going on in
our facility now.
Originally, we started inhouses that we were renting and
stuff like that, and so I wantto give you an opportunity for
us to celebrate that's something.
That's not people, that's wherewe're at.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Oh yeah, we have this big, beautiful facility and we
knew when we used to have ninehouses out in the community that
was so challenging to reallysupervise and for our staff to
get to each one.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
And vans going everywhere.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yes, exactly.
And we were able to buy aproperty that had two women's
houses.
So we moved all the women overhere and it had two empty lots
that I had a vision that Iwanted to build on and I knew we
wanted corporate offices there,we wanted meeting spaces to be
able to do programming and wewanted apartments.
Well, actually I just wantedhousing and then when I talked
to a general contractor he said,hey, the best way to do this is
(29:18):
apartments.
You know, build up, don't buildout.
So we decided on thismulti-story building, and just
to have everybody here on thisone campus has made such a
change in our program.
I think.
Supervision is easier,availability of staff is easier
and just the miracle I meanreally that we have this
(29:40):
building and that it's debt-freebecause of some amazing grants
and now being able to renovateour women's houses again through
grants.
I mean, if people who might belistening, who are not
associated with us, could comeand look at the housing we have
here, they'd say this isrecovery housing, because I
don't think there's anythinglike it, or certainly not very
(30:01):
many places that this is wherethe living environment for
people in recovery is so amazingand we think that environment's
important.
It speaks value to them Like,yeah, this is a wonderful place
I live in.
They must really think I'mvaluable because we do.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Thank you yeah and I said something that's not about
people, but the reality is isthat we've had a lot of very
generous people help make thishappen.
So I'm curious what does what'syour vision look like for
crossbridge for the future orcontinued growth?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
You know, that's something that I think about a
lot, and I see people who arewhat I would call visionaries
and they start, let's say, youknow McDonald's and they got one
, and then they want ten, andthey want fifty, and then they
want the world wide, whatever.
And I really don't have thosekinds of desires I don't think
(30:56):
that's because I'm old, you know, and maybe it'll be the next
leader that says, hey, we wantcrossbridge Chad Nugget.
Yeah or we want crossbridge youknow Birmingham, I don't know,
maybe they will and I'll be allfor it or restoration house in
those other cities.
What I do see that I would liketo see us do I would like to
(31:17):
see us do outpatient treatmentsomeday and I want to see us do
some housing for women withchildren, because it is such a
huge need.
Many times, when women aregraduating this program, they're
they're able to get theirchildren back.
But where can you go?
You know we are located inNashville, where rents are
outrageous.
So to have some housing forwomen where their kids could
(31:40):
reside, we can't do that here,and I mean maybe in the future,
you know it could be men withchildren there are men who have
their kids too so, but just andreally more Availability of
housing for people as theytransition.
I would love to have anapartment complex where our
alumni could move into it and,you know, live there and it be
(32:01):
affordable, because there's justnot affordable housing in
Nashville and many of them needto live Close to the bus line,
which puts them in the downtownarea, which is very expensive.
So for me it's like expandingthat and then, with our kid
power program, I mean I'd loveto see us be able to do more
with families.
We're gonna hopefully open acenter on the fifth floor of
(32:24):
this building at some point.
I think that'll give us theavenue to reach out more to
parents and offer some servicesto parents.
So I don't have this biggrandiose dream of there being
cross bridge nationwide.
I just really don't.
And but again, maybe it's likeI said, that may be the future
for cross bridge when someoneelse wants to take it to those
(32:44):
levels.
But for me those things Iidentified really Intense.
About patient treatment, Ithink is really important.
I think that some of thetreatment that's offered is not
really helping people so muchand I know that we could do that
.
And then again that big, bigneed for housing for women with
children and for our folks thatgraduate here.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
For those of us who don't know what that means, can
you tell us what outpatient?
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
well, there's residential treatment, where you
would live at a facility andyou don't leave, or anything
like 28 day treatment, where theperson lives in a treatment
facility and they basically goto treatment all day, intensive
outpatient as you do come fourdays a week, usually three hours
a day, but you live outside thefacility and so it is an
(33:31):
intensive, you know, like 12hours a week continuing in
treatment.
But it does allow people stillthe time to work or to live at
home with their families or tolive perhaps in restoration
house.
So 28 day treatment is 99.9% notenough for people you either
got to go on to sober living,and for many people, the next
(33:51):
step is Just it's usually a 16week Intensive outpatient
treatment that I think that wecould do a lot of good with that
.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Chris, you got any other questions?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No, I'm just glad that people are getting an
opportunity to see the wonderfulperson that we work for and
that Me you've mentioned.
You know this, I'm Always quickto tell people what restoration
, cross bridge but has done forme.
But it was the relationshipsI've had you know during that
that it's doing goods contagious, you know.
(34:28):
And seeing you, pastor bill,sure, everybody's involved just
constantly doing everything theycan to give someone the the
best opportunity to change theirlife.
You know I'm blessed to be partof that.
But it all starts, you know,working with you guys.
You know, because I wanted whatyou had, even though you wasn't
.
You know, necessarily we'recoming from substance use.
(34:49):
I heard you all the time userecovery principles, you know,
and that you know.
You just, you want to have thatpurpose in your life.
And I tell participants all thetime, you know, because there's
so many participants there's noway to get to, to know every
one of them in debt personallyand and I tell them all the time
I've had to bless and get toknow you personally and just how
(35:10):
much this Organization means toyou, the people in it, the
people at work here.
So I'm just I'm really glad yougot to come on and kind of, so
people can see where it startedat, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, right here, and you know I'm really grateful
that I've got to be able to dothis with my life.
The older I get, the more I'mimpressed, and just remember
that we do only get one life.
There's no dress rehearsal,this is it, and I want this one
life to count for something thatwill outlive me, and I believe
that it will yeah, and before weclose out, want to give you an
(35:42):
opportunity to share with peoplehow they can get involved with
crossbridge.
Well, they can get involved.
If they need help, they can gettouch with us and see if they'd
be a good candidate for theprogram, but also they can give
on our website.
You've heard us talk about kidpower, new power, today and
perhaps you could be a mentorand you know, just come be a
(36:03):
part of what we're doing here.
We do have an opportunity foroutsiders to be with us on
Sundays and Tuesdays, so I'massuming through the podcast
people know how to get in touchwith us.
Yeah so just reach out and weall always need donations of
things like clothing, hygieneproducts, things like that that
most our folks come in here withnothing, so the kinds of things
that people would need justgetting started.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thanks for joining us today.
Addiction isn't going to getsomething get better with
tougher laws.
It's going to come from peoplesharing their stories.
So we know every person's storyis impactful and it matters.
So thanks for joining us today.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.