What’s the role of the coaching industry in collective liberation? (w/ Andréa Ranae)

Episode Transcript
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Andréa Ranae (00:00):
My invitation is just to let ourselves feel the pain that we don't
have to have the shame on top of it.
It is painful to know that I havecontributed to the harm of another
person and that I had no idea.
That is painful.
I don't have to hold shame about it.
I can grieve that.
have the pain about it, feel thepain about it, be with others

(00:22):
in my pain about it, and then dosomething to tend to that pain.

Jeremy Blanchard (00:31):
Welcome to the Wider Roots podcast, a show about how
we can use the power of coaching andpersonal transformation to help create
the world we most want to live in.
I'm your host, Jeremy Blanchard.
I'm a coach for social movement leaders.
And today's conversationis with Andréa Ranae.
We're going to be exploring some bigtopics like how the coaching industry

(00:53):
and its engagement with social justicehas changed over the last eight years.
We're going to be talking about what itlooks like for coaches to recognize our
collective power to shape the industry.
And Andrea shares her storiesof how she created her program
called coaching as activism.
We'll talk about the kinds ofbreakthroughs that her clients
had as they got politicized.

(01:14):
And as they brought together, thesecoaching and healing modalities with a
more political social justice analysis.
If you're new to this podcast, Iinvite you to take a moment and
subscribe in your podcast player.
And as you're listening, if you findsomething meaningful or impactful, I
invite you to take a moment to sharethis episode with someone in your life

(01:36):
whom might also get something out of it.
All right.
Let's dive in.
Hey Andrea, welcome to the show.

I'm so excited to have this conversation.

Yeah, me tOo.
one of the reasons I wanted to haveyou on the show is you've been, leading
this program, Coaching as Activismfor a long time, before, there were
many programs around on this topic.
And, you and I met along time ago and, yeah,
There's this commitment that I've seenyou have as I've been following you on
Instagram over the years of really beingdedicated to reaching out to the coaching

(02:15):
and healing industry in a way that youbring more people into a justice oriented
and a systemic change orientation.
I feel like my work is a littlemore geared towards people who
already having awareness of, systemsof oppression and domination.
And I feel like we really need everybodyhelping at every stage of change.
And I see a lot of your work is like,Hey, everybody and the big, wide

(02:37):
coaching, healing, transformation,spiritual world, come into the fold.
Like we, we want you overhere, like a big invitation.
I just feel so grateful that there arepeople like you, doing that part of
the work, cause I think it's so needed.
So yeah, really, gratefulfor all that you're up to.
I'm grateful that we getto have this conversation.

Yeah.
It's funny, as you say that I'm like,yeah, I guess I have been calling out
to the people that are less in that,in the politicized space, to come in.
And I've always been very clear sinceI started this particular version of
my work, that I'm not an evangelist.
And so like, I'm not trying toconvert people, but if people,

(03:16):
hear the music in the church andthey're like, Ooh, what is that?
Come on in.

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

let's

Yeah.
I love that.
I'm curious to hear a little about,your lineage and who've influenced
your coaching journey and or yourjustice journey that you want to like
name as we begin this conversation.

So I entered into the coaching industry through my father,
who has been a coach most of my life.
He introduced me to this world.
I was reading personal growthbooks for teens eight years old.
And so that, that was my introductionand I experienced a lot of different
containers and spaces and organizationsthrough him and then also outside

(04:01):
of my relationship with him.

Yeah.
And your dad was, a coach,which I can just only imagine
reading that many personal growthbooks from that young of an age.
It sounds like you found some resonancethere that it wasn't like, I could imagine
an alternate version where your dad's a
coach and it's like, get outof here with all this stuff.
It's too much with the coaching.

it was definitely both and, it was definitely definitely both And
I am very much, similar to my father.
And, I also was just like, I'm just a kid.

Right.

Stop coaching me.
But yeah, I just had a generaldesire to like help people.
And especially because my dad was a coach.
I think in situations where like mostpeople don't even know what coaching is,
they wouldn't know that's a possibilityof something that you could do to make
a living and do your work in the world.
but it felt possible to meand it felt easy for me.

(04:53):
and I went there and did that.
I, the other, folks that came tomind were Audre Lorde, The Combahee
River Collective, which like whenI read, their statement that was
connecting, the dots and basicallyasserting that intersectionality was
a thing before we had the word, thatlike blew my mind, on another level.

(05:18):
So Audre Lorde, CombaheeRiver Collective, bell hooks.
Folks that.
were bringing together the personaland the political, that I didn't
have access to until college, really,didn't know that they existed.
And they also informed so muchof, my perspective on what it
means to, be a healer and do workat intersection of, the collective

(05:42):
and the individual in beautifulways that I'm forever grateful for.

Beautiful.
Thank you.
Just, sweet to invite all those,folks into the room as we're talking.

Hmm.

you've been running this program, Coaching is Activism, and off
for many years now, since 2016, I believe.
And I remember reading thisarticle you wrote, why coaching
isn't gonna, what is the title?

Why the self help industry isn't changing the world.

Perfect.
Yeah.
I remember reading it when it cameout when you published it a long
time ago and having this resonanceof like, oh my gosh, thank you.
Please.
Let's talk about this.
Let's talk about how particularly coachingself help healing, transformational
work, is largely just lacking any kindof political analysis, very just stops

(06:33):
at like, great, you're transformed.
All right, that's it.
That's all the only thingfor us to talk about.
And really appreciating you taking astand for that at that time, especially.
I'd love to hear a little bit justlike what caused you to write that
article and then start the program.
What were you seeing in that moment?
Obviously we were a coupleyears into this public explosion

(06:53):
that was Black Lives Matter.

It's absolutely inspired by all all of the movement
work happening and my own rage.
and grief and feelings about what Iwas witnessing in the world and also
what I was witnessing in the coachingindustry as, there was so much going
on in this country in paRticular.

(07:16):
and there was hardly anythingbeing said about it in the space of
coaching, personal growth, spiritualdevelopment that I was in at that time.
A couple of years before that, I hadbeen in a personal growth organisation,
community where I was really pushing formore awareness around, diversity, around

(07:38):
like difference around like the realitythat this work of growing ourselves and
healing ourselves has a context around it.
This is not the samefor every single Person.
and I had just like reached mytipping point with that community
and with the industry as a whole.
And I was pissed and I woke up atlike, 1am or something one day and

(08:02):
I, it just like blowed out of me.
And I didn't have much ofan audience at that point.
But it went viral, and it was a bigthing but The feedback that I got, was
just like so many people being like,I've been thinking this for so long, but
I didn't have the words, or I've beensaying it, but nobody was listening to me.
Or, I've been feeling this,but I just couldn't figure

(08:24):
out like what to do about it.
Hundreds.
and hundreds of comments and it was clearto me that I wasn't alone And I knew that
on a local level, but that there wereso many people across the world, that
were also thinking the same things mm

yeah, that was eight years ago now, and I know you've run
many rounds of Coaching Activism sincethen, and, yeah, eight years is a long
time for the quote unquote self helpindustry, this, helping professions,
especially coaching and healing.
To like go through someserious changes, right?
Especially the way that, in the U.

(09:06):
S., these being like often publiclyvery like white dominant spaces, as
the murder of George Floyd happened,and white America waking up to racial
justice in a much bigger way led toa lot of industries transforming.
Um, or at least beginning to liketake a next step, in the direction
of more systemic awareness.
So i'm curious was there anythingin those early rounds of coaching

(09:28):
is activism and just beginningto get this public following?
Was there anything that surprised you?
What people needed in that moment,or anything you were not expecting
that happened as you startedto like develop your teaching

so it was quite a mix of people in the beginning where there was
a lot of seasoned legend activists thatraised my presence in those programs.
And then there was like peoplethat were completely new,
and I needed to do a bit more educating,and create more resource and provide

(10:02):
more support around their own.
Process of understanding themselves inthe context of the world and then there
was also this piece of, especially folkswith more marginalized identities, people
of color, trans, indigenous disabledfolks who had systemic awareness, but

(10:24):
were within this industry that had none.
And they were trying tofigure out how to fit.
Part of the work for them was actuallygetting not so much the learning of
the systemic collective issues, butit was like embracing their unique
way of doing this work and releasingthe need to fit, in this industry that

(10:46):
was never meant for them to fit into.
And so there was lots of differentfacets and over the years of the work
that was being done in that, space,but it was always, I'm the kind of
facilitator leader where I go basedon who's in the room and what's needed.
And the program has changed.

(11:08):
in so many ways over the yearsto meet people where they are.
As the collective awareness has changedand as the industry has shifted where,
the forms of that program that haveexisted aren't so necessary now.
Because we have more of the language,we have more of the familiarity

(11:29):
with these topics and ideas.
We have a greater understandingof what justice is.
And how that intersects with healingand growth and going after our goals and
dreams, so it's been quite a journey.

yeah,
I think one of the things that I'dbe really curious is maybe to get
specific about what some of the thingsyou needed to introduce people to.
I mean, you alluded to some of them, justlike what is white supremacy culture and
maybe a a contrast ofwhat's needed these days.
And what was needed then.

In the beginning when I first launched or when I first wrote
that article, that was a time therewas hardly any conversation happening
in, mainstream personal growth spaces,To bring up anything about race or,
marginalization, it was not met kindly.
It was not met with like, oh, okay,let me look at myself, or like, let's

(12:29):
make space for this conversation.
It was met with gaslighting, you're in avictim mindset, that's not something that
actually matters, and so where we arenow is, my read on it, is that there is
more of a majority of the industry thatunderstands that these things matter.

(12:51):
So in the beginning I wasn't workingwith those people that were doing the
gaslighting necessarily, but the peoplethat recognized that there was a problem,
um, or we're experiencing the gaslightingand, wanted to do something about it.
So there was a lot of just like creatingspace for them to, look at and understand
what is, capitalism, what is patriarchyand gender based oppression, and what is

(13:15):
white supremacy or supremacy as a whole.
What do these things looklike in, in real life?
How do these show up inthe coaching industry?
How do these show up in our livesand in our relationships with
ourselves and with other people?
And I think now it's more thateducation, is ongoing, of course, but

(13:38):
now I think there's been this like,journey from individual to collective,
where a lot of that work that washappening and has been happening over
the years has been very individual,like, I'm, I want to be a good person.
I want to be, a more radical coach.
I want the impact that I'm havingto make a difference, and to be

(13:58):
aligned with who I say I am and thevision that I have for the change
I want to make and, very I focused.
And I think what I'm experiencingmyself and also witnessing is that
there's now this invitation to shiftmore to collective we have this
awareness of how our skills can eitherserve or detract from these long

(14:27):
term goals of justice and liberationand, love and peace in the world.
How can we use our giftstogether to create change?
What does that look like?
And, to know that yes, wehave our individual businesses
and all of that, but okay.
How can we come together?
And use our power to create somethingthat we couldn't create by ourselves.

I love that.
It makes me think about, there's likea, corporate DEI version of things
where it's okay, you're learning thewords and you're learning some basic
things to be aware of, but oftenthe way that stuff gets implemented
is like, I don't want to mess up.
I don't want to break the rules.
This very like cover your assapproach to, what you should be doing.

(15:12):
I hear what you're saying is this,way in which, perhaps, the coaching
industry is starting to develop almostlike a community organizing mindset.
Where like, oh, actually, we havepower together, when we work function
together, you see that playing out?
I'm curious, is it like, maybe it'sof mindset, but there's not yet
infrastructure where that's happening.

yeah, I think we're moving with the huge movements that are happening
on behalf of, Palestine and Congo andSudan, especially, I think there is
this like, collective awareness that'soh, together like, it's Not just me.
So I think there's that,awareness that's coming in.

(15:52):
Yeah.
Not quite at the place of takinga lot of action on that, But
I think that's the invitationthat, we're sitting in right now.

yeah.
I love that invitation.
May we all, get a chance to acton that invitation and explore.
Yeah, I just, I feel like a lotof, creative possibility there.
Like, oh, what would it look like if,the coaching, healing, transformation
industry started, joining together, right?
Like a lot of the conversationsI've had with guests so far, when
we talk about like, how do you bringyour politics into your coaching?

(16:24):
A lot of the answers, comedown to who are you coaching?
Well, am I coaching people who alreadyhave a commitment to systemic change?
It's kind of the biggest.
One of the biggest ways that we can makea difference, but I don't think I've
thought of it quite this way before,as I hear you talking about this, like,
Oh, what does it look like to see thatwe have collective power and we can

(16:44):
actually like move the industry and movethe way that personal growth and healing
and transformation happens by not justfocusing on our isolated individualist.
I don't know, that's like a sparkly,

juicy.

idea.
Yeah, it's juicy, what's there?
People listening, can, we canall get together and start
figuring out what that looks like.
It's a cool invitation

yeah.

Yeah, cool.
I'm curious, what are some of the biggest,breakthroughs you've seen people have?
What are some of the biggest challengesthey encounter and like the other
side that they get to when they'regetting politicized through the
teaching and the work that you've done?

I truly have never thought about myself as politicizing people,
but that is what I have been doing.

That's

eight years.

Yeah,

yeah, depending on the demographic, I think there's been a lot
of white folks who have had to confronttheir and move through their shame.
the shame that comes along withwhiteness to keep whiteness, alive.
And actually like face who they arefor real, not just the like facade,

(17:55):
that they want to show share andthe brands that they've created.
and so people have burned down theirbusinesses after working with me, because
they realized that it was so aligned withwhiteness, or just not aligned with
who they actually are, or what they'rewanting to create in the world, their

(18:16):
brands were like signifier of goodness,but it wasn't actually goodness.
And, One might not call that a success,but I do, because the point is any
growth process, healing process is tocome closer and at home with yourself
and at home in this world together.

(18:36):
And to release anything thatis false, so we've had that.
There's also been a lot of, people ofcolor, black and brown folks, indigenous
folks in particular that have come throughthe program and in that same way, come
home to themselves in, in a differentway, releasing this, like there's so

(18:58):
many ideas about like, this is theway that you need to do your business.
This is how like online businessworks, or this is how coaching should
work or how your session should be.
Or, and that is often in conflictwith both lived experience and like
ancestral wisdom and, like culturalwisdom that so many Black and Brown

(19:20):
and Indigenous folks carry, but they'rebeing told like, this is how you have
to do it in order to be successful.
So there's been this process of peoplereleasing that need to like, to fit into
those boxes that were built for whitefolks to succeed in a white industry.
And we're not made for me and,folks that look like me to find

(19:44):
any kind of success in that realm.

Do you have any examples, real quick, of what the,
business practices that got laid downin that, that weren't in alignment
for the black and brown folks?
Curious to hear.

this may not be too specific, but I think the way that we
think about pricing and to have likeexorbitant pricing on things where I
think not just black and brown folks,but like all folks that have a leaning
toward justice and, wanting to makethings accessible have struggled with

(20:16):
you have like the high ticket item andthen you have like the mid ticket item
and then You have the low price item.
And then you have the free andwhat I've seen, especially for
black and brown folks is that justdoesn't, It just, it doesn't buy.
iT.
and there's not necessarilyactually there's this better way.
There's this one better way,but it's like setting down.

(20:38):
you don't need to have this likepricing funnel of, ticket to to free,
to create a sustainable business.
What other ways could you priceyour work or structure your
offerings and your, business mOdel.
so that the people that you reallywant to serve can access the work

(20:59):
that you really want to do with them.
And you're still takencare of in the procesS.
It's requires creativity, because thereisn't necessarily a blueprint for that.
The blueprint that we'regiven doesn't work.

Yeah, because you've also done a lot of like business
training as well, like taught peoplearound businesses and how to dismantle
these like dominant business paradigms,especially in the coaching industry,
where, you and I have both so many of ussee this, more money equals more success,
very capitalist, dominant, supremacyculture approach to things, there's so

(21:35):
many coaching books and websites and,business trainings for coaches that
are like, if you're not making sixfigures a month, you're not, you know,
this like huge promises as though, likethat's what's, the good life, quote
unquote, is presented as, especiallyin the coaching industry, I think, in
kind of wild way that likealmost doesn't make sense to me.
Like, why has this gone, it's gonerampant within the coaching industry?

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah, so presenting, I love the way you're presenting
folks other options and like reallyletting them expand to this like
creative and really aligned wayof what do you want this to look?
If you're going to have a business Let'shave it be the business you want it to

Yeah.
Let's have the business be accessibleto you first, and Then you can make
it accessible to everybody else.
Yeah.

Yeah, totally, we've already made some invitations to
folks who are already politicizedwho might be listening to this show.
And I'm curious, as you and I were gettingready for this episode, we were talking
about, okay, for the folks who are alreadypoliticized, what's the task for them,
or what's the invitation, or what's thepossibility that we want to explore there?

So in November, I released another article, called why the self
help industry won't change the world.
Which
is like part two of why the self help industry
isn't changing the world.
Where it's like, that change in theworld and the word won't, is like

(23:02):
the isn't was like, you're not aware.
We're all silly gooses and it's timethat we have some understanding won't
is we are aware, but we're noT willing.
and there's work to be done around,facing even more hard stuff, facing even
more of the discomfort, and sacrificingsome of our comfort to get into more

(23:26):
community, get into more conversationwith ourselves, with each other, about
what's happening in this world andwhat our role is in it as human beings,
and I think that is the invitationright now is to really sit with tHat.
I don't only have personal responsibility.
I also have a social responsibility.
I have a collective responsibilitythat often is not talked

(23:48):
about in this industry.
We are responsible for how we live inour world and the systems that we uphold.
Through our decisions, our actions,our taxes, who we vote for, who, who
we allow to have power in thisworld, what we decide to value in

(24:11):
this world, that all of this hasan impact on our fellow humans.
And so what I was saying earlier,that connecting with, How can I use my
gifts beyond my own personal success?
How can I use my gifts, my skills,my experience, my knowledge

(24:32):
to a larger collective effort?
What larger collective efforts.
are happeninG?
and what role can I play in that?
And to be in that question, I don'tknow what the answer is And I wish
I did, but I'm actually glad Idon't, because it's not just mine.
To answer.
I think it's something that can onlyreally be answered collectively,

(24:52):
but in order for that to happen, weeach individually have to come in
and have that conversation together.

Yeah, totally.
What is my responsibility?
What is our responsibility?
Such a great question.
I'm thinking about, you know,live in Oakland, and there's

(25:19):
so much organizing happening.
Everywhere for Gaza and Palestine,but especially here because of
the lineage of activism, here.
And there's also a huge lineageof like healing here as well.
And I think of the amazing work thatI've seen connected to, direct actions
and connected to the organizers here.

(25:40):
There are like so many differentformations of healers and coaches
and somatic practitioners and bodyworkers who are coming together to
say, hey, you all just locked down tosomething, or helped organize a big
march or helped organize, whatever.
We're having a clinic thisweekend just for people working

(26:03):
for the liberation of Palestine.
Come.
Where you're going to get body work,you're going to get a coaching session.
You're going to get a healing session.
You're going to be able to work throughwhatever's stuck in your system.
Yeah, I think of my,like, it's okay, cool.
That's a piece of it.
What are the other piecesthat we've seen or heard?
, I don't know if you have any that you wantto like add as like points of inspiration
of what is our responsibility right now?

Yeah, a couple of weeks after, maybe just a week, I don't know,
after October 7th, I got together with myfriend, Sasha Heron, who is a death doula
and an ancestral healing practitioner.
And, she hit me up and shewas like, how do you feel?
Like, what do you think about holdinglike a grief cafe space for people
just like come and grieve for Gaza?

(26:47):
And, I was like, I'm down, absolutely.
It's a small, but verysignificant example.
I did like eight or ninein a row straight with her.
every single time there's been aroundat least a hundred people, sometimes
200 from all over the world, from folksthat are in the Middle East, folks that

(27:07):
are in Europe, the U S Canada, Mexico.
Like folks from all over, a lot of Muslimfolks, a lot of Jewish folks, a lot of,
Black and brown folks who are witnessingthis through our own lens and our own
histories and in lineages of experiencingcolonization and, the violence of empire.

(27:30):
And, it's been this beautiful.
Absolutely.
Like every time I hop onto one ofthose calls, I'm just like overwhelmed
with the humanity that's present.
and those spaces are free.
They're still ongoing.
If you're listening and you'recurious, definitely go to Sasha
Heron's, Instagram to find out more.
But, that's what I could givein that time in that, moment.

(27:53):
I think that's like a, an online versionof my question for myself, knowing
what my gifts and skills are and likewhat my inclinations are is like, I
know a big part of what I can offeris support to help people keep going.
That, my role right now isn't somuch the educating or thinking
too deeply about anything.

(28:15):
We're all having a lot of bigfeelings and we're all navigating on
multiple levels, our own experienceof trying to survive in this world.
Like, how do we keephoping for something else?
How do we keep workingtowards something else?
And knowing okay, that'swhere I can show up and offer
whatever I can, in that space.

Yeah, I just feel that inspiration rising up in me
hearing us both share these examples.
And I'm like, oh, I can justimagine as folks are listening,
what are the ideas that arepopping into folks heads right now?
Of okay, I could go do this.
Or, I just know a few people whoare organizing or doing some kind
of important work for the worldthat we want to see and, oh,
what's a way I could support them?
Can I offer a free group session?

(28:59):
Can I offer some free one on one sessions?
Can I just like connect, make thatconnection?, it's one of the things
I appreciate about your work andthe kinds of invitations you bring
forward are such, they're like bridgebuilding, invitations so often.
And so it's like, oh, how can thehealing industry and the coaching
industry that's already here just getsome of it's just like, how can we just
connect so that there's just pathwaysand service going in that direction.

(29:24):
So

Yeah.

I love that.
This is sort of a non sequitur fromwhere we just were, but Something I
saw you write about on Instagram wasthe role of shame, and I think you have
sort of a spicy view on the role ofshame that I've heard from a few people.
But, I'm curious to hear you talkabout this, because you think
there's like a role for shame inour current culture, which I think

(29:45):
says, is no, don't shame yourself.
Don't shame others.
Yeah, I'd love to hear youtalk a little bit about that

well, I think like any sensation or feeling that
we have in our body, there isnothing bad or wrong about it.
But the feeling that we experiencethat we call shame, there's
nothing wrong with that feeling.
That feeling has a purpose.
Like any sensation we havein our body has a purpose.
It's trying to tell us somethingabout what's happening to our
bodies or to, in our environment.

(30:13):
And it's information.
So I don't hold shame as a bad thing.
I think the way that shame isweaponized against ourselves
and each other is not useful.
And is not going to helpus flourish in any way.
And a part of what I was thinking aboutwith that post is just witnessing how
many of us specifically, as we witnessPalestine, Sudan, Congo, Haiti, so many,

(30:43):
parts of our world that are enduringthe worst of the violence that we're
also experiencing here on a spectrum.
that there's so many of us thatare like shaming oursElves.
because we didn't know we didn'thave the awareness or because
there's nothing that we can do.
We can't like immediately stopthat violence from happeNing.

(31:04):
And that is where I'm like,no, like shame has a purpose.
If we experience shame in this moment,Then that's a signifier of like,
there's something important here thatdoes not line up, does not serve our
collective good or our personal good.
Let's shift it, but we don'thave to sit in that shame.

(31:27):
And like stewing in it, is a way that somany of us have learned to, grapple with
things that we don't like about ourselvesor about the world my invitation is just
to let us ourselves feel the pain that wedon't have to have the shame on top of it.
It is painful to know that I havecontributed to the harm of another

(31:49):
person and that I had no idea.
That is painful.
I don't have to hold shame about it.
I can grieve that, feel the pain about it,be with others in my pain about it, and
then do something to tend to that pain.
Do whatever I can to tend tothe harm that's happening.
To get aware, to becomeknowledgeable about how I've

(32:11):
been participating in that pain.
Shame keeps us stuck.
And that is a part of how systemsof supremacy, domination, empire
keep us where we are is if we'reall in shame about ourselves, about
things that are out of our controluntil they're in our control.
So yeah, my invitation for folks thatare feeling that like that weight of I'm

(32:36):
a horrible human being because I didn'tknow or because, I did know, but I was
scared to experience the consequencesof speaking out on something.
When, this world is not welcomingto, standing up for The oppressed.
I hold the perspective thatlike that fear of speaking out

(32:57):
the fear of losing community.
It makes sense.
And how can you build insome support for yourself?
How can you reach out to communityand know you're not alone, to be able
to take the risks that you want totake or that we all need to be taking.

Yeah.
I love the distinction between, I'mhearing it as like shame as, indicator
and maybe a wake up moment or likean important signal versus shame as
like a very stuck energy around it.
i've seen that in my own life.
Where I've actually caused harmand where I feel like, oh, this
was really, it's like a signal.
It's in some ways and its initialstate maybe could just be seen as like,

(33:37):
oh, I did something really not okay.
Not okay with me and not okaywith my place in the whole,
like, I really feel disconnectedfrom the whole in this moment.
And I think there's times where it'slike, oh yeah, you actually did do
something that really disconnected youfrom the whole and like, it's gonna be
good to be aware that really was like,Yeah, a painful thing that you enact.

(33:58):
And then what you do with it fromthat moment on was what I'm hearing
you say is like the differencebetween do I stay in this or do I,
use it, bring some compassion tomyself, and then use it to transform.

Yeah.
My point is, like,shame won't get us free.
It might bring us aware of howwe're showing up or how unfree
we are, and I think it can be aneffective tool to stop harm, but
it doesn't do anything beyond that.
only stops there.
And we need more

Well as we draw to a close here, one thing I like
to ask all my guests is where you'regetting your sources of nourishment.
The title of the podcast is WiderRoots and part of that is like, all
our roots are where we draw our energy.
So whether that's poems orbooks or podcasts or maybe just
practices, anything you want aboutwhat's feeding you these days.

I think I am most blessed with my community and
the friendships and relationshipsthat hold me down in so many ways.
That invite me over and feedme and check in on me and I do
the same, and I reciprocate.
But, For sure.
Like my People.
and also I'm an artist.

(35:10):
I'm a singer songwriter and so like musicis always a source of nourishment for me.
But I've also in this time been leaningon music in a different way over the
last six months or so, and showingup with music in a differenT way.
so that's been sweet and very nourishiNg.
and then, yeah, I think also I havebeen exploring poetry more lately.

(35:36):
I've been obsessed a bit with, NikkiGiovanni and her book, Love POems.

Cool.
We'll put a link to thatbook in the show notes.
In a moment, I'll ask howfolks can connect with you.
But before that, anything elsethat you want to share that we
didn't have a chance to get to?

Yeah.
I think, the core of all of my work, it'sinteresting with Coaching as Activism.
It, on the surface, it's it's a programIt has been a program about how people
can use their coaching as their activism.
And what it's always really been aboutis like, how can I engage with my power

(36:13):
in ways that align with my vision,my values, and in, in all aspects and
areas of my life, not just as a coach,but as a parent, as a friend, as a
partner, as a business owner, as acommunity member, that it's been this
like holistic bringing your whole selfinto relationship with the collectIve.

(36:38):
and I really think that, similar to whatwe were talking about with shame, like
there are no bad parts and that so manyof us diminish what we have to offer.
We diminish the talents and capacity,skills, ideas, that we have to give.
They're important.
They're a part of what makes uspowerful And we need all the power

(37:02):
collectively that we can get.

Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
What a great note to end on.
I'm feeling really, grateful to getthis like insider view of this work that
you know all these people and all thesefolks and all these like forces that
you've helped set in motion and been apart of lifting up around the coaching
and healing industry like waking up tosystemic transformation so yeah really

(37:27):
grateful to have a chance to like sharethat with folks listening and really
grateful for all for you for all thework you're doing so just thank you

for inviting me.
I haven't had a conversationlike this in a while.
It's been wonderful.

Yeah.
And if folks want to connectwith you, how can they do that?
I know we've got yourcoaching side of things.
We also have your music as well.
So, yeah.
Where can folks find you?

So I'm @AndreaRanaeJ on all the social media And
most active on InstagrAm.
my website is Andrea Renee.
com.
If you want to check out my music, myInstagram for that is Dre like Sade.
D R E like Sade, the artist, S A D E.
And, yeah.

(38:10):
And if you're curious about Coachingis Activism, , the version of it
as a program is no more, but, youcan go to coachingasactivism.com.
I do want to still createsome resources for folks to,
to carry forward around that.
So you can find that there.

Perfect.
Cool.
Yeah.
Links to all that willbe in the show notes.
yeah.
Thanks so much foreverything you're doing.

Jeremy, for holding this space and having this conversation.

Thanks so much for tuning in and thanks
to Andrea Rene for sharing herexperience and wisdom with us today.
Check out the show notes for links tothe resources that N Dre are mentioned
and other ways to connect with her.
Episode nine comes out in two weekswith Margaret Wheatley, who I am
so delighted to have on the show.

(39:06):
If you don't know her work,she is an author and teacher
who writes about social change.
Leadership spirituality.
And the inevitable collapse of society.

Margaret Wheatley (39:18):
It is extremely painful and difficult to take in what's happening.
It takes enormous courage andenormous compassion to face reality.
And the compassion part of it is Iwant to stay, I want to be of service,
I want my little contribution tomake a difference, maybe only in the

(39:43):
lives of my colleagues, family, andcommunity, but that's enough actually.

So make sure you subscribe in your podcast
app of choice so you can catchthat episode and the future ones.
As always the website is wider roots.comwhere you can find our newsletter.
My email is podcast@widerroots.comand you can follow the podcast
on Instagram at wider roots pod.
And lots of gratitude to Jonas andTresne for helping review this episode.

(40:12):
Thanks as always to Wild Choir forthe theme music for the show, you're
currently listening to their song,remember me, which will play us out.
See you next time.

is annoying me.
Where is it?
Okay, I think I got it.
I don't know.
Um,

If it comes back, we'll just take another break.

Okay.

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