February 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Welcome to the podcast! This episode is going to be different than our usual format because I wanted to take some time to lay the foundation for the questions we’ll be exploring on this show. Questions like “How can our movement spaces actively create more opportunities for deep, internal transformation while we work for external change?”
I invited my dear friend Jess Serrante (a long-time coach for climate leaders) to help shed some light on the purpose of this podcast and our hopes for justice-oriented coaches.
Check out the episode page for the transcript and all the resources related to this episode: https://widerroots.com/1
Make sure to subscribe through your podcast app: https://widerroots.com/subscribe
Timestamps
- [00:32] - What this show is about
- [08:26] - Intro to my conversation with Jess
- [10:14] - Jeremy's coaching origin story
- [14:24] - What would it be like if we all had these skills?
- [18:40] - Who this is for and what we'll be exploring
- [21:29] - Coaching industry & how we don't see ourselves in it
- [26:03] - Why we find coaching so powerful in movement work
- [31:52] - Being in community with one another as practitioners
Connect with Jess
Connect with Jess at JessSerrante.com or @jess_serrante. Sign up for her newsletter to get notified when the We Are The Great Turning podcast (with Joanna Macy!) is released later this year.
Follow the podcast
- Join the newsletter at WiderRoots.com for more resources on personal + systemic transformation.
- Instagram @WiderRootsPod
- Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeremy Blanchard (00:11):
Welcome to the Wider Roots podcast.
A show about how we can use the power ofcoaching and personal transformation to
help create systemic social change andbring about a more life affirming world.
Since this is the first episode, I wantedto take some time to introduce myself
and let you know what you can expectfrom this project and this podcast.
(00:33):
So hello.
My name is Jeremy Blanchard.
I use he/him pronouns.
And I am a leadership coach and I'vebeen supporting leaders, activists,
organizers, and folks doing socialchange work for over a decade now.
I got my start doing climateactivism when I was in college.
And these days, my main contributionto social movement work is through my
(00:56):
work as a coach supporting leaders.
I remember when I first heard aboutcoaching, I was initially very skeptical.
It's like, what is this?
Uh, I don't know.
I don't know if this seems kind of weird.
And then the first time I stumbledmy way into experiencing coaching.
I didn't have words for it, but Ifelt like, wow, this is so different
(01:20):
than anything I've encountered before.
And it could sense something was openingup in me that felt different than therapy.
It felt different than theway I would talk with friends.
And I immediately just wanted more of it.
And pretty soon after I startedexperiencing coaching and the
difference it was making in my life.
(01:41):
I just immediately wanted otheractivists and organizers, I
knew to have access to it.
I was like, oh, this, thiscan make a difference.
And how do we get this out to more people?
And that's what led me on the10-year journey that I've been on.
I sensed that there was.
(02:01):
Uh, potential that it could make animpact for teams, for organizations and
really for our, our movements as a whole.
And I didn't hear a lot ofpeople talking about that.
Most of the coach training, I receivedlacked any kind of political analysis
or focus on what the world was goingthrough, the crises were experiencing.
(02:24):
There's a lot in the coaching industrythat you can find that's about how you
personally can be more fulfilled and howyou personally can live the life you love.
And I kept asking myself, okay,but where are the people who are
talking about the climate crisis?
Where are we talking about whitesupremacy culture and racial justice.
(02:45):
Uh, can we take this beyond just meand my personal fulfillment and learn
to join together and work collectivelytowards the wellbeing of the whole?
And so now a decade later, I'm startingthis project with the intention and the
hope that it will serve as a resourcefor coaches like me who were wondering
(03:09):
about these questions of how we take thispersonal transformation work and bring
it forward in service of the collectivewellbeing and the collective crises and
issues that we're facing in this moment.
So this project is definitely for coacheswho have a social justice mission and
dedication underneath what they are doing.
(03:32):
It's also for leaders who are usingcoaching skills or want to use
coaching skills and want to do itanymore collective oriented way.
It's for facilitators consultants,other folks in this broader
ecosystem who, um, really careabout personal and systemic change.
(03:52):
There's a quote from Margaret Wheatleythat speaks really directly to why
this project is important to me andwhat I hope it contributes in the
world and why I think coaching andsocial change really fit together.
She says.
"We need leaders and coaches that canhelp us embody the best qualities of
being human compassion generosity,kindness, integrity, connection."
(04:17):
And for me, that's the possibilitythat, uh, has me shop over and over
again to coaching for social change.
I believe that there's this unique magicthat happens during a good coaching
session where someone's full spirit andtheir best qualities have a chance to show
(04:39):
up and they get the chance to see thatin themselves and then learn how to bring
that forward into the world consistently.
And through that they tap intotheir deepest longings and
their vision for the future.
Which we need, if we're goingto address what we're facing
in this moment as a society.
So there's a few different ways thatI see us going about this exploration.
(05:02):
The first is the impact of coaching.
So looking at how can coaching supportChangemakers and social movements.
I think that's the mostfoundational one and maybe in
some ways the easiest to answer.
When these change-makers and teamsand organizations get this kind of
support, how does it free them upto be more effective in their work?
(05:27):
Another level that we can come atthis from is looking at how we coach.
So I'm thinking about the methodsthat we use with our clients, with
the people we're supporting tobring about their growth and support
them in their own transformation.
How can the social and political andecological realities that we're facing
(05:51):
actually inform the way we do our coachingand personal transformation work, rather
than them being totally de-politicizedor individualistic, which is so common.
And then finally, what does it look liketo place our commitment to the wellbeing
of the whole at the center of a coachingconversation or coaching relationship.
(06:16):
And for me, that's different again thanthe individualistic tendencies that we
often see in the coaching world, whereit's just about me and my wellbeing.
How do we shift that tothe collective wellbeing?
So in some ways I'm thinking of thisas a research project that I'm doing in
public so that we can all benefit from it.
I want this to be a platform forthe wisdom teachers, the coaches,
(06:37):
the spiritual teachers, the movementleaders who are really thinking deeply
about this intersection of personaltransformation and systemic social change.
One of my part-time obsessions overthe last many years has been to
collect all of the resources thatI can find at this intersection.
So I've got an enormous spreadsheetfull of books and articles and
(07:00):
teachers and training programs thatare helping explore this connection
between personal and systemic change.
And my hope is that I can bring theseforward through the voices that we have
on the podcast, but also share themin the newsletter and, really help get
these resources into more people's hands.
(07:22):
So if you go to WiderRoots.com, youcan sign up for the newsletter where
I'm going to be sharing a lot of theresources that don't fit into an episode.
A little bit about the name, Wider Roots.
This name is inspired by redwood trees,which you may know are incredibly
resilient through even really big storms.
(07:42):
And it's not because their roots are deep.
It is because their roots are very wide.
And they interconnect with one anotherand create a really stable base.
And I took inspirationfrom that in a few ways.
One is, first just roots ingeneral, our reminder to be
connected to what nourishes us.
(08:04):
What anchors us and what's our vision.
And it's an invitation also towiden our roots so that we can stay
connected amidst storms and actin service to collective change.
And finally it's an invitation toexamine the root causes of the systems of
separation and domination that we live in.
(08:26):
So with all that in place, I want to leadus into the conversation that you're about
to hear between me and my dear friendand longtime collaborator Jess Serrante.
She's a climate activist.
She's a leadership coachfor climate activists.
She's a facilitatorand she is a podcaster.
And I'll say this.
(08:47):
Coaching is something thatI can geek out on endlessly.
And Jess is one of my favoritepeople to geek out with.
We've been having these kinds ofconversations about coaching and justice
and how to bring those two worldstogether for years and years now.
And I wanted to have her on for this introepisode so that we could share the energy
(09:07):
of those conversations with you, as weset up more about where are we going?
What are some of the questions wewant to explore in this podcast?
I love this conversation with Jessbecause we got to explore our vision
for what it would be like if coachingskills and support and personal
transformation work was even more widelyavailable inside social movement spaces.
(09:31):
And the kind of compassion, the kindof courage, the kind of vulnerability
that that would help cultivate.
And we also talked a lot aboutthe coaching industry and how
it's really weird sometimes, andreally doesn't resonate with us.
And how we feel like outsiders fromthat particular world and yet what
keeps us in the game, why we stillvalue this as a mode of support.
(09:55):
And so with all that, I want tosay thank you for being here.
Thank you for listening.
This project is a big labor of love onmy part, and I really hope it makes a
difference and helps you on your journey.
So without further ado, let's diveinto the conversation with Jess.
Jess Serrante (10:14):
Hi.
Jeremy Blanchard (10:16):
Hi Jess.
Jess Serrante (10:16):
What's What's up buddy?
Jeremy Blanchard (10:19):
Yo.
Thanks for doing this.
Jess Serrante (10:22):
I'm so excited.
Jeremy Blanchard (10:25):
So, we wanted to talk because we've been
talking about this for a decade.
A long time.
And, uh, we figured that if wesat down together and did the
thing that we do we would therebyintroduce some of what this podcast.
Jess Serrante (10:44):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's been many, many long couch talksand road trips and such that have
planted some of the seeds for this.
Yeah.
totally.
So.
Yeah, Um, well, I want to just saythat I'm stoked that you're doing
this, because, I mean, and you, youknow this, but like, um, I think
(11:08):
it's a really important set of topicsthat you're exploring in Wider Roots.
Wider Roots.
Radio voice.
Um.
Yeah, maybe that's a goodplace for us to start.
Actually, Is like, um, what the topicsare that you want to be exploring in this.
(11:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (11:36):
Yeah, I'm thinking about what draws us both to this topic.
Jess Serrante (11:41):
Hmm.
Jeremy Blanchard (11:42):
And I think at least part of it, there's like
two angles that come to mind.
One is both of us being organizers fora long time, being in social movement
spaces, and um, for me coming acrosscoaching, running into someone at a
climate activist training, our dearfriend Zo Tobi, who, just started coach
(12:04):
training, I had no idea what coachingwas back then, sounded pretty weird,
I was immediately skeptical of it, anduh, ending up in a conversation with
him, where I left the conversationfeeling like that was not advice.
That was not a friend conversation.
That was not therapy.
(12:24):
I don't know what it was.
What did you just doWhat you was was but What
Jess Serrante (12:27):
I remember feeling that at the beginning too.
Jeremy Blanchard (12:29):
But like, what was that?
I feel like my brain just like got amassage and my heart is more like, I
don't even, didn't really have wordsfor it then, but being taken by it.
Struck by it.
Uh, and very impacted.
And started working with him.
I was like his first payingclient back in the day.
And
Jess Serrante (12:49):
You were Zo's first client?
Jeremy Blanchard (12:50):
I was Zo's first paying client.
Jess Serrante (12:51):
That's awesome.
Jeremy Blanchard (12:51):
Paying him a whopping 25 dollars per session.
Whoa!
And, I just got so much out of it.
I don't think I've ever said it thisway before, but it was the answer to
questions I didn't even know I had.
It was like a way into, sustainabilityand how I was showing up in my
activism instead of nearing burnout.
(13:13):
It was the way into, oh, I have somethings I really want to be focused on
instead of what's like a little biteasier or more comfortable or familiar.
Um, and very quickly, uh, I thinkas is my nature, I was like,
I'm getting so much out of this,how do I help others have this?
Um, and yeah, I could immediately seeall the organizers I knew cared so
(13:39):
much and were so wearing themselvesout and so like strained and worn thin.
And I could just, I had this, longingthis vision emerging inside me of
like, God, wouldn't it be amazingif these skills for like resilience,
connectedness to self connectedness toothers, connectedness to your values was
(14:00):
everywhere in social movement spaces.
Jess Serrante (14:02):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (14:04):
Yeah so I think that's the heart is like, how do we,
as people who are dedicated to a morejust, life affirming world, how do we
resource ourselves, how do we show upand bring our full humanity, our full
brilliance, our full selves forward.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (14:24):
Yeah.
And What you just said makes me thinkof something we were talking about last
night, about uh, a conversation that I hadwith my mentor Joanna Macy and her talking
about, um, Our world, as a world or asa culture, our readiness for the change
(14:44):
that's necessary for us to avert the worstof the climate crisis, to move toward more
just and loving ways of living together.
And the thing that she said to mewas, you know, one of the things
that worries me the most is thatwe're not showing signs of being
evolutionarily ready to make that change.
(15:05):
Like, we know what we need to do.
We, I mean, we don't know exactly howto do it, but we know what we need
to do, but collectively we're notshowing signs of being ready to do it.
And for me, that is, that's a hugereason why this intersection of
topics of coaching and spiritualityand social change work and movements,
(15:26):
like, why they all come together.
Because we're talking about, like,how do we get, how do we get ready?
Jeremy Blanchard (15:32):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (15:33):
You know, and some of us are ready.
And fully present, but even our movements,we can see it in the dysfunction in our
movements and our organizations, cancelculture, the way that people come for each
other when we really should be findingways to love each other and move through
conflict in ways that are generative,to build coalition and organize well.
(15:53):
Like some of the most gratifying momentsin my career as a coach have been
moments where I'm supporting my clients,these brilliant leaders, to show up in
integrity within their organization.
Jeremy Blanchard (16:11):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (16:11):
You know, I think about like, I mean, I know we both think
about it this way, but like that's themicrocosm, is like one person showing up
with integrity within their organization.
And then there's the largerpicture, which is like all of
us having the skills to do that.
And how would thattransform our movements?
Jeremy Blanchard (16:27):
Yeah.
Right?
Jess Serrante (16:28):
I think those were some of our earliest conversations
about this, like, when I first gotinvolved with the coaching world, which
you were a part of bringing me into.
Jeremy Blanchard (16:37):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (16:38):
Um, the, the question or the like, excitement in me and
us and many of our friends that allcame into all of our like organizer
friends who came into training ascoaches at the same time together
was like, what would our movementsbe like if we all had these skills?
Yeah.
Oh my god right?
(16:58):
Yeah, it would be so different!
Jeremy Blanchard (17:00):
Totally, which speaks to there's some longing there that's like,
more and more and more of us, I thinkare sensing into the places where that
full human spirit, like qualities thatwe most want to demonstrate our values,
our vision, like the vision of the worldwe want to see is not fully present in
(17:21):
the way we are going about making change.
Like, I love that you brought in theword spirituality for this because I
think it's taken a long, like a whilefor me to lean into the fact that that's
a big part of what this work is we'redoing in the sense of, tapping into
the qualities of humanity that we likemost want to see demonstrated that we
(17:43):
would love to see demonstrated widely.
Yeah, it makes me think aboutthe quote from Margaret Wheatley.
As I was getting ready for this podcast,um, was listening to a podcast from
Margaret Wheatley talking about, uh, Weneed coaches and leaders who can help us
bring forth the best qualities of humanityin the midst of chaos and collapse.
Jess Serrante (18:09):
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:10):
And not going to be everybody.
Jess Serrante (18:11):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:12):
We don't need everybody to do that, but we need
the people who feel that call.
We need more people to be dedicatedto that cause because amidst
collapse, amidst the like, Yeah,destruction that we're seeing.
We uh, people who remindus how to be together.
Jess Serrante (18:31):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:32):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (18:32):
Right, so we don't lose each other when we are losing other
things, because we're going to lose a lot.
to Very likely.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:38):
Yeah.
. Jess Serrante (18:40):
Do you want to tell me what Wider Roots is about?
Jeremy Blanchard (18:44):
Yeah, I do.
Um, So, it's for coaches first.
It's also for leaders.
It's also for anyone wanting tobring a more spiritually grounded
way into their social change work.
(19:05):
Who want to transform the way we'reshowing up in movement spaces and
obviously beyond that too, but firstand foremost social change spaces.
Who want to see that transformto a more compassionate, more
courageous, more centered, morevulnerable way of showing up.
That's who it's for.
(19:25):
Hell Yeah.
Jess Serrante (19:26):
What are we gonna be exploring?
Jeremy Blanchard (19:29):
We're to be exploring what movement space is like.
what we're longing for more there.
We're going to be exploring,um, the coaching side of it too.
Like, both you and I come from coachingschools that are not particularly
social justice oriented, right?
Jess Serrante (19:46):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (19:46):
Like, I don't care so much about transforming the coaching
industry, but I do care that there isa space within coaching that has, like,
that there's somewhere that peoplewho are thinking this way, who have
the systemic transformation commitmentcan go in the coaching world in a
(20:07):
way that aligns with their values.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's maybe less like a, like acrusade to transform all these places,
like, uh, and more who's like alreadycalled to this kind of transformation?
There are many ways we go aboutthis kind of transformation, right?
(20:28):
We can do it through facilitation.
We can do it through restorativejustice, transformative justice.
We can do it through song andlike actual spiritual community.
We can do it through, meditation,mindfulness, whole spiritual traditions.
Um, coaching one of the ways thatyou and I have come to, to like
access that kind of transformation.
(20:49):
And I think for me, it's about carvingout a space where people who are called
to that kind of transformative work andat the individual transformational level
and the systemic transformation levelyeah --can rally, can find each other,
can like explore and deepen into thesetopics, because that's what I wanted.
Like when I started on this path10 years ago, I was like, who's,
(21:11):
who, who's doing both of these?
And there was very few peopledoing both of both of these
Jess Serrante (21:16):
Oh, totally.
That was my experience too.
Like, planting a seed and holding opena space where people who see what we
see or are interested in these topicscan realize that there's a community.
Jeremy Blanchard (21:29):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (21:30):
Let me ask you another question.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, you know, we've talked many timesabout, um, one of the both exciting and
frustrating things about being socialjustice coaches is feeling like there's
(21:52):
this massive coaching world, thismassive industry that surrounds us, but
we don't see ourselves in lot of it.
There's an extreme that the field hascome to that it does make me pause when
I meet someone in the wild for the firsttime and I tell them that I'm a coach.
(22:13):
Because every, I think a lot of peoplehave associations with that kind of
like, um, ignorant to their privilege,pushy, individualized solutions.
It feels to me like a lot of the industryhas taken what is actually a lot of beauty
(22:35):
uh, at the heart of this work, which isabout people really coming into their
autonomy in their lives, like recognizingthe agency that we have to create change
in the world and create change in ourown lives and how empowering that can be.
But taking that to the extreme islike pulling us out of the context
(22:58):
of being creatures of the collectiveand belonging to a world and, like,
purpose beyond my desires, my personal,like, whims, desires, cravings, even.
Jeremy Blanchard (23:14):
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (23:16):
The word that I just wrote down was control.
Like the world is so chaotic.
It's hard to, it's, like, it's, it'shard to live in this world in this
moment, whether you are like, activelyin the practice of acknowledging
and looking at the unraveling thatwe're facing and understand thinking
(23:39):
about the like systemic root causesof that or not you're feeling.
Jeremy Blanchard (23:44):
Yeah
Jess Serrante (23:45):
The presence of unraveling the acceleration of injustice of
ecological collapse all of that andit makes so much sense to me that so
many of us are grasping for control.
You know, and in some ways it feelslike the coaching industry has fallen
(24:07):
without a larger systemic analysis aboutwhat's happening on our planet in this
moment, what is this like spiritualevolutionary moment that we're in has
fallen into, satisfying the desiresthat a lot of us have, which is to like
have some semblance of control, right?
And the way that that looks in termsof money and power and influence
(24:30):
and we're like putting those things,I mean those things all matter.
But, um, situating them themoutside of the, like, larger,
uh, uh, we need a we need acollective shift context, you know?
Jeremy Blanchard (24:48):
Yeah, It makes me think about security.
Yeah.
Right?
Control and security.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, what's underneath control?
I want to have control so I be safe.
So you can I'll contract, you know,so that I can, um, support and,
uh, take care of, me and mine.
Jess Serrante (25:05):
Which we all want.
Jeremy Blanchard (25:06):
We all want that.
Yeah, there's like a, there's a, there'sa root in there that is meaningful, right?
Of like, oh, I I, care about my life.
I care about the people close to me.
So there's a meaningfulplace that that comes from.
And the longing that I know we bothhave is like right and it's absolutely
(25:30):
incomplete if it stops there if it itstops at, let me take care of myself.
It's, um, practically incompletebecause we are bound up in one another
and there's just no way to actuallyseparate my well being from the well
being of others, it's gonna come back.
Jess Serrante (25:48):
Right.
Jeremy Blanchard (25:49):
And it's spiritually incomplete, you know It's like your
your heart is incomplete to havecut yourself off and just build up
bigger walls and like a safer fortressamidst, you know, uh destruction.
Jess Serrante (26:01):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (26:03):
Um, I'd love to talk about why we stay it.
Like Like why, I think there's thephilosophical like big picture,
like what's our theory of change?
that we've hit on a little bit,but there's also like a real, in
the moment we're having eithera coaching conversation or the
same kind of transformationalwork in, like, group spaces.
(26:26):
There's something that we experiencethat lights us up, that has a say
yes, this is worth investing inlike this is where I want to put my
to support people I'm curious I'mcurious what you would say about that.
Jess Serrante (26:40):
Yeah, the, what comes to mind immediately is that I am in love
with the people that I serve in my work.
Yeah, like, I mean, it's changedover the years, but now the
group that I work with mostly iswomen doing climate justice work.
And I just fucking love them so much.
(27:01):
I mean these people are so brave,and so tuned in to what's happening
on our planet right now, usingevery bit of their brilliance
to try to like, leverage change.
Jeremy Blanchard (27:16):
Amen.
Jess Serrante (27:17):
There was a moment years ago where I got it, that the only way
that we bring that just life sustaining,life affirming way of being into, the,
more dominant paradigm is by being it.
By like us living it.
There is absolutely no other way thatit comes into being in the world.
(27:38):
Like we have to be livingdemonstrations of that just life
sustaining life affirming way withevery interaction that we have with
the way that we live our lives.
It's really exciting to me as a coach toget to support people to be that microcosm
of the world that they want in the waythat they show up because that is the way
(28:00):
that the larger cultural shift emerges.
And I also feel like I often getto empower people to support other
people to be those seeds, right?
And it's this like ripple effect.
Jeremy Blanchard (28:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (28:12):
Yeah.
Yeah..
Jeremy Blanchard (28:17):
Like, there's a theory of change that says we believe
that in order to bring about theworld we want to see, we have to show
up as the compassionate, forgiving,centered, grounded, earth-connected,
ancestor-connected, inclusive, etc.
(28:40):
ways.
We have to show up in that whilecreating and and living into that future.
Jess Serrante (28:49):
Yeah,
Jeremy Blanchard (28:50):
I want to build on something you're saying, right?
There's the people that we'reso dedicated to supporting.
We care so much aboutmovements for social justice.
We care so much about the peoplewho are dedicating themselves to it.
Like that's at the end of the day,one of the big reasons we're here.
And I think there's also a piecein here about like transformational
(29:11):
work or like work that has us livingmore in line with our deepest values.
hmm.
And frees us up to beable to live in alignment.
I think there's healing work that'sreally important on the way there.
There's learning how to relate toour bodies and somatic work, right?
(29:37):
There's mindfulness work.
There's all thesedifferent ways into that.
So whether it's coaching or not,There's this like deep longing to, um,
be a part of people's transformation.
And I think for me, and I probably forboth of us, that one on one or small group
(29:58):
setting is where we've just encounteredso much transformational possibility.
Like we've been in conversations withclients where we see someone get past
something that has been holding them backfor a long and find a way into a new way
of showing up toward their work or towardstheir lives or towards their personal
sustainability or towards their community.
It can be at any level in a way that'sjust like, heart opening, and like, you
(30:24):
know, brings us to tears sometimes, yeah.
Right?
To see, like, again, I keep comingback to this phrase, like, best
qualities of humanity, like, we getto see someone's humanity shine forth.
And I know there are other ways to dothat beyond this one on one and small
group and coaching-esque approach.
(30:44):
But this is the one that I have found,you know, the one that I has impacted
me and is therefore the one thatI'm most called to bring to others.
Um, so I think there's something in thereabout like, why stick with the coaching
modality when there's so many weirdthings going on in the field is like,
this intimacy of a container where you'remeeting someone right where they're at.
(31:08):
And you're ushering them, you're guiding,escorting them, you're standing alongside
them as they open into their next levelof expression, growth, and contribution.
Jess Serrante (31:20):
What thrills me as an activist first is getting to be
alongside someone when they're readyto be, um, reaching out into the world.
I love getting to be with someonewhen It's like that dance between the
inner world and the outer world andthe impact that they want to um, just
(31:46):
like really it's really satisfying.
Jeremy Blanchard (31:48):
Yeah.
Yep.
Amen.
Jess Serrante (31:52):
Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm so excited to get to
listen to the conversations that youhave and to continue to have these
kinds of conversations with you.
I think there's another pieceabout like being in community with
one another as practitioners inthis space, because for me, this
is like profoundly spiritual work.
(32:16):
And I can forget that sometimes.
In the, like, frustrating slog oftrying to, like, have a business.
You know, building an online presenceand a website and all the shit that
I, like, wish I didn't have to do.
Like, I can just sort of, losesight of the like, energetic
(32:40):
core of why this all matters.
And so I'm excited because itfeels like lighting a candle in the
dark here with these conversations.
Where we can come back to again andagain, how endlessly thrilling it is to
think about what it is for us to fully,spiritually, somatically, creatively
(33:08):
embody the kind of leadership thatwe want for our world in this moment.
And creating spaces for us toremember what it's really about,
why we do this work, and how we,um, how we as practitioners stay
aligned with what matters to us ina world that's really fucking noisy
and and a field that and culture thatwants to like pull us into paying
(33:33):
attention to different things, right?
Like how many times have bothof us been like sidetracked?
By like the right ways to market theright ways to have a business who
you're supposed to be as a coach.
I'm, so glad I mean it's it's neverover right but i'm so glad now like
10 years into this work to not beso easily thwarted by that because
at the beginning it was hard.
(33:55):
I constantly felt like I neededto be someone else like I
was doing everything wrong.
And over time, we've come tolike deepen our trust in who we
are and what we have to offer.
But I think that thathappens in community.
And that's a piece of why this podcastis so important, because Jeremy,
something we had that a lot of coachesdon't, is that we had a moment.
(34:16):
When we came into this work together, wehad via Zo Tobi, the coach that brought
us both into coaching and beloved friend,this community of young activists turned
coaches who all fell in love with thiswork together and we were swimming in
(34:40):
these kinds of questions together, which Ithink if we hadn't had that, I don't know
that I would still be doing this work.
So hopefully this existing and being likea beacon of like your people, you person
with your heart burning for change in theworld and that's what made you fall in
(35:01):
love with the possibility of this to likesee that your people are out there, that
we're here and that there's a lot of us.
You know, like maybe we'll, Ihope, my prayer for this project
is that it'll keep people in
Jeremy Blanchard (35:15):
it.
That's right.
Oh.
Thank you.
Yeah.
That's my deepest hope for too, isthat it's a rallying point broadly,
but then there's people who wantto come in and connect with one
another in some way through, um,whatever means we can get create.
Jess Serrante (35:34):
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I don't know if you've chosen this
for yourself, but convinced thisis a part of your purpose is to
like, create a space for us to betogether and think about this together
because it's so deeply fulfilling.
And um, Yeah, maybe I'll stay inthe game because it it matters.
Jeremy Blanchard (35:55):
Amen.
Will you tell us about the, uh, will yougive us a little, like, preview, Jess,
of the, uh, podcast you're working on?
Oh, yeah.
This is a, a podcasting friendship.
Jess Serrante (36:09):
Yeah totally.
Um, yeah, so I'm working on a podcast,called We Are the Great Turning, which
is a 10 episode series about climatechange and spirituality and possibility,
(36:29):
and it's a series of conversationsbetween myself and my beloved, soon
to be 95 year old mentor, Joanna Macy,who is a spiritual giant in this world.
She's a Buddhist.
She's a systems thinker.
She's a, deep ecologist.
She created a body of workcalled The Work That Reconnects.
(36:52):
Um, but in this podcast, thetwo of us are talking about what
is it to be alive in this time.
Yeah.
Yeah really excited
Jeremy Blanchard (37:03):
to
Jess Serrante (37:04):
put this out in the world.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:05):
Me too.
Jess Serrante (37:06):
Hahaha.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:07):
Yeah, it feels so of the same spirit as this podcast.
Cause we're both dedicatedto the same mission.
And you've been a huge part of mypodcast, this podcast, Wider Roots
coming into being, and it's beensuch a joy to get to stand beside
you as you're like very long andin depth project is coming forward.
(37:31):
And to see the like absolutelyheartbreakingly beautiful conversations
that You got to have Joanna.
So, um, I'm excited to have youback on the show many times, uh,
including, when the We Are TheGreat Turning Podcast comes out.
Jess Serrante (37:48):
Cool.
Yay.
Thank you.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:52):
Love you.
Jess Serrante (37:52):
I love you.
I'm so glad you're doing this.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:54):
Thanks.
Glad we're doing it together in some ways.
Jess Serrante (37:57):
We are.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:58):
In so many ways.
Thanks friend.
Thank you so much for listening.
Episode two is availablenow in your podcast feed.
It's with my buddy Mazin Jamal.
(38:18):
And we get to dive into some reallymeaningful conversations about creating
belonging in our movement spaces.
Mazin Jamal (38:25):
How can we create such rich belonging that there's room to challenge
each other without fearing that we'regoing to be kicked out of the group?
Jeremy Blanchard (38:34):
And episode three comes out in two weeks.
So keep an eye out for that and makesure you subscribe in your podcast app.
If you'd like to tap into theresources I've collected at this
intersection of personal and systemictransformation, including books,
videos, and training programs, youcan head over to WiderRoots.com to
sign up for the free newsletter.
(38:55):
And you can email me atpodcast@widerroots.com.
I would really love to hearwhat's resonating with you.
And if there are any questionsyou have that you'd love to
see us explore on the show.
Thanks to wild choir for thetheme music for the show.
You're currently listening to their song,Remember Me, which will play us out.
(39:16):
See you next time.
Jess Serrante (40:11):
You're listening to Wider Roots.
Jeremy Blanchard (40:13):
You're listening to the Wider Roots Podcast.
Podcast
Jess Serrante (40:15):
My name is Jeremy Blanchard.
I'll be your guide and your captain today.
Jeremy Blanchard (40:21):
Please keep your seatbelts on, follow
all crew member instructions.
Welcome to the Wider Roots podcast.
A show about how we can use the power ofcoaching and personal transformation to
help create systemic social change andbring about a more life affirming world.
Since this is the first episode, I wantedto take some time to introduce myself
and let you know what you can expectfrom this project and this podcast.
(00:33):
So hello.
My name is Jeremy Blanchard.
I use he/him pronouns.
And I am a leadership coach and I'vebeen supporting leaders, activists,
organizers, and folks doing socialchange work for over a decade now.
I got my start doing climateactivism when I was in college.
And these days, my main contributionto social movement work is through my
(00:56):
work as a coach supporting leaders.
I remember when I first heard aboutcoaching, I was initially very skeptical.
It's like, what is this?
Uh, I don't know.
I don't know if this seems kind of weird.
And then the first time I stumbledmy way into experiencing coaching.
I didn't have words for it, but Ifelt like, wow, this is so different
(01:20):
than anything I've encountered before.
And it could sense something was openingup in me that felt different than therapy.
It felt different than theway I would talk with friends.
And I immediately just wanted more of it.
And pretty soon after I startedexperiencing coaching and the
difference it was making in my life.
(01:41):
I just immediately wanted otheractivists and organizers, I
knew to have access to it.
I was like, oh, this, thiscan make a difference.
And how do we get this out to more people?
And that's what led me on the10-year journey that I've been on.
I sensed that there was.
(02:01):
Uh, potential that it could make animpact for teams, for organizations and
really for our, our movements as a whole.
And I didn't hear a lot ofpeople talking about that.
Most of the coach training, I receivedlacked any kind of political analysis
or focus on what the world was goingthrough, the crises were experiencing.
(02:24):
There's a lot in the coaching industrythat you can find that's about how you
personally can be more fulfilled and howyou personally can live the life you love.
And I kept asking myself, okay,but where are the people who are
talking about the climate crisis?
Where are we talking about whitesupremacy culture and racial justice.
(02:45):
Uh, can we take this beyond just meand my personal fulfillment and learn
to join together and work collectivelytowards the wellbeing of the whole?
And so now a decade later, I'm startingthis project with the intention and the
hope that it will serve as a resourcefor coaches like me who were wondering
(03:09):
about these questions of how we take thispersonal transformation work and bring
it forward in service of the collectivewellbeing and the collective crises and
issues that we're facing in this moment.
So this project is definitely for coacheswho have a social justice mission and
dedication underneath what they are doing.
(03:32):
It's also for leaders who are usingcoaching skills or want to use
coaching skills and want to do itanymore collective oriented way.
It's for facilitators consultants,other folks in this broader
ecosystem who, um, really careabout personal and systemic change.
(03:52):
There's a quote from Margaret Wheatleythat speaks really directly to why
this project is important to me andwhat I hope it contributes in the
world and why I think coaching andsocial change really fit together.
She says.
"We need leaders and coaches that canhelp us embody the best qualities of
being human compassion generosity,kindness, integrity, connection."
(04:17):
And for me, that's the possibilitythat, uh, has me shop over and over
again to coaching for social change.
I believe that there's this unique magicthat happens during a good coaching
session where someone's full spirit andtheir best qualities have a chance to show
(04:39):
up and they get the chance to see thatin themselves and then learn how to bring
that forward into the world consistently.
And through that they tap intotheir deepest longings and
their vision for the future.
Which we need, if we're goingto address what we're facing
in this moment as a society.
So there's a few different ways thatI see us going about this exploration.
(05:02):
The first is the impact of coaching.
So looking at how can coaching supportChangemakers and social movements.
I think that's the mostfoundational one and maybe in
some ways the easiest to answer.
When these change-makers and teamsand organizations get this kind of
support, how does it free them upto be more effective in their work?
(05:27):
Another level that we can come atthis from is looking at how we coach.
So I'm thinking about the methodsthat we use with our clients, with
the people we're supporting tobring about their growth and support
them in their own transformation.
How can the social and political andecological realities that we're facing
(05:51):
actually inform the way we do our coachingand personal transformation work, rather
than them being totally de-politicizedor individualistic, which is so common.
And then finally, what does it look liketo place our commitment to the wellbeing
of the whole at the center of a coachingconversation or coaching relationship.
(06:16):
And for me, that's different again thanthe individualistic tendencies that we
often see in the coaching world, whereit's just about me and my wellbeing.
How do we shift that tothe collective wellbeing?
So in some ways I'm thinking of thisas a research project that I'm doing in
public so that we can all benefit from it.
I want this to be a platform forthe wisdom teachers, the coaches,
(06:37):
the spiritual teachers, the movementleaders who are really thinking deeply
about this intersection of personaltransformation and systemic social change.
One of my part-time obsessions overthe last many years has been to
collect all of the resources thatI can find at this intersection.
So I've got an enormous spreadsheetfull of books and articles and
(07:00):
teachers and training programs thatare helping explore this connection
between personal and systemic change.
And my hope is that I can bring theseforward through the voices that we have
on the podcast, but also share themin the newsletter and, really help get
these resources into more people's hands.
(07:22):
So if you go to WiderRoots.com, youcan sign up for the newsletter where
I'm going to be sharing a lot of theresources that don't fit into an episode.
A little bit about the name, Wider Roots.
This name is inspired by redwood trees,which you may know are incredibly
resilient through even really big storms.
(07:42):
And it's not because their roots are deep.
It is because their roots are very wide.
And they interconnect with one anotherand create a really stable base.
And I took inspirationfrom that in a few ways.
One is, first just roots ingeneral, our reminder to be
connected to what nourishes us.
(08:04):
What anchors us and what's our vision.
And it's an invitation also towiden our roots so that we can stay
connected amidst storms and actin service to collective change.
And finally it's an invitation toexamine the root causes of the systems of
separation and domination that we live in.
(08:26):
So with all that in place, I want to leadus into the conversation that you're about
to hear between me and my dear friendand longtime collaborator Jess Serrante.
She's a climate activist.
She's a leadership coachfor climate activists.
She's a facilitatorand she is a podcaster.
And I'll say this.
(08:47):
Coaching is something thatI can geek out on endlessly.
And Jess is one of my favoritepeople to geek out with.
We've been having these kinds ofconversations about coaching and justice
and how to bring those two worldstogether for years and years now.
And I wanted to have her on for this introepisode so that we could share the energy
(09:07):
of those conversations with you, as weset up more about where are we going?
What are some of the questions wewant to explore in this podcast?
I love this conversation with Jessbecause we got to explore our vision
for what it would be like if coachingskills and support and personal
transformation work was even more widelyavailable inside social movement spaces.
(09:31):
And the kind of compassion, the kindof courage, the kind of vulnerability
that that would help cultivate.
And we also talked a lot aboutthe coaching industry and how
it's really weird sometimes, andreally doesn't resonate with us.
And how we feel like outsiders fromthat particular world and yet what
keeps us in the game, why we stillvalue this as a mode of support.
(09:55):
And so with all that, I want tosay thank you for being here.
Thank you for listening.
This project is a big labor of love onmy part, and I really hope it makes a
difference and helps you on your journey.
So without further ado, let's diveinto the conversation with Jess.
Jess Serrante (10:14):
Hi.
Jeremy Blanchard (10:16):
Hi Jess.
Jess Serrante (10:16):
What's What's up buddy?
Jeremy Blanchard (10:19):
Yo.
Thanks for doing this.
Jess Serrante (10:22):
I'm so excited.
Jeremy Blanchard (10:25):
So, we wanted to talk because we've been
talking about this for a decade.
A long time.
And, uh, we figured that if wesat down together and did the
thing that we do we would therebyintroduce some of what this podcast.
Jess Serrante (10:44):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's been many, many long couch talksand road trips and such that have
planted some of the seeds for this.
Yeah.
totally.
So.
Yeah, Um, well, I want to just saythat I'm stoked that you're doing
this, because, I mean, and you, youknow this, but like, um, I think
(11:08):
it's a really important set of topicsthat you're exploring in Wider Roots.
Wider Roots.
Radio voice.
Um.
Yeah, maybe that's a goodplace for us to start.
Actually, Is like, um, what the topicsare that you want to be exploring in this.
(11:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (11:36):
Yeah, I'm thinking about what draws us both to this topic.
Jess Serrante (11:41):
Hmm.
Jeremy Blanchard (11:42):
And I think at least part of it, there's like
two angles that come to mind.
One is both of us being organizers fora long time, being in social movement
spaces, and um, for me coming acrosscoaching, running into someone at a
climate activist training, our dearfriend Zo Tobi, who, just started coach
(12:04):
training, I had no idea what coachingwas back then, sounded pretty weird,
I was immediately skeptical of it, anduh, ending up in a conversation with
him, where I left the conversationfeeling like that was not advice.
That was not a friend conversation.
That was not therapy.
(12:24):
I don't know what it was.
What did you just doWhat you was was but What
Jess Serrante (12:27):
I remember feeling that at the beginning too.
Jeremy Blanchard (12:29):
But like, what was that?
I feel like my brain just like got amassage and my heart is more like, I
don't even, didn't really have wordsfor it then, but being taken by it.
Struck by it.
Uh, and very impacted.
And started working with him.
I was like his first payingclient back in the day.
And
Jess Serrante (12:49):
You were Zo's first client?
Jeremy Blanchard (12:50):
I was Zo's first paying client.
Jess Serrante (12:51):
That's awesome.
Jeremy Blanchard (12:51):
Paying him a whopping 25 dollars per session.
Whoa!
And, I just got so much out of it.
I don't think I've ever said it thisway before, but it was the answer to
questions I didn't even know I had.
It was like a way into, sustainabilityand how I was showing up in my
activism instead of nearing burnout.
(13:13):
It was the way into, oh, I have somethings I really want to be focused on
instead of what's like a little biteasier or more comfortable or familiar.
Um, and very quickly, uh, I thinkas is my nature, I was like,
I'm getting so much out of this,how do I help others have this?
Um, and yeah, I could immediately seeall the organizers I knew cared so
(13:39):
much and were so wearing themselvesout and so like strained and worn thin.
And I could just, I had this, longingthis vision emerging inside me of
like, God, wouldn't it be amazingif these skills for like resilience,
connectedness to self connectedness toothers, connectedness to your values was
(14:00):
everywhere in social movement spaces.
Jess Serrante (14:02):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (14:04):
Yeah so I think that's the heart is like, how do we,
as people who are dedicated to a morejust, life affirming world, how do we
resource ourselves, how do we show upand bring our full humanity, our full
brilliance, our full selves forward.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (14:24):
Yeah.
And What you just said makes me thinkof something we were talking about last
night, about uh, a conversation that I hadwith my mentor Joanna Macy and her talking
about, um, Our world, as a world or asa culture, our readiness for the change
(14:44):
that's necessary for us to avert the worstof the climate crisis, to move toward more
just and loving ways of living together.
And the thing that she said to mewas, you know, one of the things
that worries me the most is thatwe're not showing signs of being
evolutionarily ready to make that change.
(15:05):
Like, we know what we need to do.
We, I mean, we don't know exactly howto do it, but we know what we need
to do, but collectively we're notshowing signs of being ready to do it.
And for me, that is, that's a hugereason why this intersection of
topics of coaching and spiritualityand social change work and movements,
(15:26):
like, why they all come together.
Because we're talking about, like,how do we get, how do we get ready?
Jeremy Blanchard (15:32):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (15:33):
You know, and some of us are ready.
And fully present, but even our movements,we can see it in the dysfunction in our
movements and our organizations, cancelculture, the way that people come for each
other when we really should be findingways to love each other and move through
conflict in ways that are generative,to build coalition and organize well.
(15:53):
Like some of the most gratifying momentsin my career as a coach have been
moments where I'm supporting my clients,these brilliant leaders, to show up in
integrity within their organization.
Jeremy Blanchard (16:11):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (16:11):
You know, I think about like, I mean, I know we both think
about it this way, but like that's themicrocosm, is like one person showing up
with integrity within their organization.
And then there's the largerpicture, which is like all of
us having the skills to do that.
And how would thattransform our movements?
Jeremy Blanchard (16:27):
Yeah.
Right?
Jess Serrante (16:28):
I think those were some of our earliest conversations
about this, like, when I first gotinvolved with the coaching world, which
you were a part of bringing me into.
Jeremy Blanchard (16:37):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (16:38):
Um, the, the question or the like, excitement in me and
us and many of our friends that allcame into all of our like organizer
friends who came into training ascoaches at the same time together
was like, what would our movementsbe like if we all had these skills?
Yeah.
Oh my god right?
(16:58):
Yeah, it would be so different!
Jeremy Blanchard (17:00):
Totally, which speaks to there's some longing there that's like,
more and more and more of us, I thinkare sensing into the places where that
full human spirit, like qualities thatwe most want to demonstrate our values,
our vision, like the vision of the worldwe want to see is not fully present in
(17:21):
the way we are going about making change.
Like, I love that you brought in theword spirituality for this because I
think it's taken a long, like a whilefor me to lean into the fact that that's
a big part of what this work is we'redoing in the sense of, tapping into
the qualities of humanity that we likemost want to see demonstrated that we
(17:43):
would love to see demonstrated widely.
Yeah, it makes me think aboutthe quote from Margaret Wheatley.
As I was getting ready for this podcast,um, was listening to a podcast from
Margaret Wheatley talking about, uh, Weneed coaches and leaders who can help us
bring forth the best qualities of humanityin the midst of chaos and collapse.
Jess Serrante (18:09):
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:10):
And not going to be everybody.
Jess Serrante (18:11):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:12):
We don't need everybody to do that, but we need
the people who feel that call.
We need more people to be dedicatedto that cause because amidst
collapse, amidst the like, Yeah,destruction that we're seeing.
We uh, people who remindus how to be together.
Jess Serrante (18:31):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:32):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (18:32):
Right, so we don't lose each other when we are losing other
things, because we're going to lose a lot.
to Very likely.
Jeremy Blanchard (18:38):
Yeah.
. Jess Serrante (18:40):
Do you want to tell me what Wider Roots is about?
Jeremy Blanchard (18:44):
Yeah, I do.
Um, So, it's for coaches first.
It's also for leaders.
It's also for anyone wanting tobring a more spiritually grounded
way into their social change work.
(19:05):
Who want to transform the way we'reshowing up in movement spaces and
obviously beyond that too, but firstand foremost social change spaces.
Who want to see that transformto a more compassionate, more
courageous, more centered, morevulnerable way of showing up.
That's who it's for.
(19:25):
Hell Yeah.
Jess Serrante (19:26):
What are we gonna be exploring?
Jeremy Blanchard (19:29):
We're to be exploring what movement space is like.
what we're longing for more there.
We're going to be exploring,um, the coaching side of it too.
Like, both you and I come from coachingschools that are not particularly
social justice oriented, right?
Jess Serrante (19:46):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (19:46):
Like, I don't care so much about transforming the coaching
industry, but I do care that there isa space within coaching that has, like,
that there's somewhere that peoplewho are thinking this way, who have
the systemic transformation commitmentcan go in the coaching world in a
(20:07):
way that aligns with their values.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's maybe less like a, like acrusade to transform all these places,
like, uh, and more who's like alreadycalled to this kind of transformation?
There are many ways we go aboutthis kind of transformation, right?
(20:28):
We can do it through facilitation.
We can do it through restorativejustice, transformative justice.
We can do it through song andlike actual spiritual community.
We can do it through, meditation,mindfulness, whole spiritual traditions.
Um, coaching one of the ways thatyou and I have come to, to like
access that kind of transformation.
(20:49):
And I think for me, it's about carvingout a space where people who are called
to that kind of transformative work andat the individual transformational level
and the systemic transformation levelyeah --can rally, can find each other,
can like explore and deepen into thesetopics, because that's what I wanted.
Like when I started on this path10 years ago, I was like, who's,
(21:11):
who, who's doing both of these?
And there was very few peopledoing both of both of these
Jess Serrante (21:16):
Oh, totally.
That was my experience too.
Like, planting a seed and holding opena space where people who see what we
see or are interested in these topicscan realize that there's a community.
Jeremy Blanchard (21:29):
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (21:30):
Let me ask you another question.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, you know, we've talked many timesabout, um, one of the both exciting and
frustrating things about being socialjustice coaches is feeling like there's
(21:52):
this massive coaching world, thismassive industry that surrounds us, but
we don't see ourselves in lot of it.
There's an extreme that the field hascome to that it does make me pause when
I meet someone in the wild for the firsttime and I tell them that I'm a coach.
(22:13):
Because every, I think a lot of peoplehave associations with that kind of
like, um, ignorant to their privilege,pushy, individualized solutions.
It feels to me like a lot of the industryhas taken what is actually a lot of beauty
(22:35):
uh, at the heart of this work, which isabout people really coming into their
autonomy in their lives, like recognizingthe agency that we have to create change
in the world and create change in ourown lives and how empowering that can be.
But taking that to the extreme islike pulling us out of the context
(22:58):
of being creatures of the collectiveand belonging to a world and, like,
purpose beyond my desires, my personal,like, whims, desires, cravings, even.
Jeremy Blanchard (23:14):
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (23:16):
The word that I just wrote down was control.
Like the world is so chaotic.
It's hard to, it's, like, it's, it'shard to live in this world in this
moment, whether you are like, activelyin the practice of acknowledging
and looking at the unraveling thatwe're facing and understand thinking
(23:39):
about the like systemic root causesof that or not you're feeling.
Jeremy Blanchard (23:44):
Yeah
Jess Serrante (23:45):
The presence of unraveling the acceleration of injustice of
ecological collapse all of that andit makes so much sense to me that so
many of us are grasping for control.
You know, and in some ways it feelslike the coaching industry has fallen
(24:07):
without a larger systemic analysis aboutwhat's happening on our planet in this
moment, what is this like spiritualevolutionary moment that we're in has
fallen into, satisfying the desiresthat a lot of us have, which is to like
have some semblance of control, right?
And the way that that looks in termsof money and power and influence
(24:30):
and we're like putting those things,I mean those things all matter.
But, um, situating them themoutside of the, like, larger,
uh, uh, we need a we need acollective shift context, you know?
Jeremy Blanchard (24:48):
Yeah, It makes me think about security.
Yeah.
Right?
Control and security.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, what's underneath control?
I want to have control so I be safe.
So you can I'll contract, you know,so that I can, um, support and,
uh, take care of, me and mine.
Jess Serrante (25:05):
Which we all want.
Jeremy Blanchard (25:06):
We all want that.
Yeah, there's like a, there's a, there'sa root in there that is meaningful, right?
Of like, oh, I I, care about my life.
I care about the people close to me.
So there's a meaningfulplace that that comes from.
And the longing that I know we bothhave is like right and it's absolutely
(25:30):
incomplete if it stops there if it itstops at, let me take care of myself.
It's, um, practically incompletebecause we are bound up in one another
and there's just no way to actuallyseparate my well being from the well
being of others, it's gonna come back.
Jess Serrante (25:48):
Right.
Jeremy Blanchard (25:49):
And it's spiritually incomplete, you know It's like your
your heart is incomplete to havecut yourself off and just build up
bigger walls and like a safer fortressamidst, you know, uh destruction.
Jess Serrante (26:01):
Yeah.
Jeremy Blanchard (26:03):
Um, I'd love to talk about why we stay it.
Like Like why, I think there's thephilosophical like big picture,
like what's our theory of change?
that we've hit on a little bit,but there's also like a real, in
the moment we're having eithera coaching conversation or the
same kind of transformationalwork in, like, group spaces.
(26:26):
There's something that we experiencethat lights us up, that has a say
yes, this is worth investing inlike this is where I want to put my
to support people I'm curious I'mcurious what you would say about that.
Jess Serrante (26:40):
Yeah, the, what comes to mind immediately is that I am in love
with the people that I serve in my work.
Yeah, like, I mean, it's changedover the years, but now the
group that I work with mostly iswomen doing climate justice work.
And I just fucking love them so much.
(27:01):
I mean these people are so brave,and so tuned in to what's happening
on our planet right now, usingevery bit of their brilliance
to try to like, leverage change.
Jeremy Blanchard (27:16):
Amen.
Jess Serrante (27:17):
There was a moment years ago where I got it, that the only way
that we bring that just life sustaining,life affirming way of being into, the,
more dominant paradigm is by being it.
By like us living it.
There is absolutely no other way thatit comes into being in the world.
(27:38):
Like we have to be livingdemonstrations of that just life
sustaining life affirming way withevery interaction that we have with
the way that we live our lives.
It's really exciting to me as a coach toget to support people to be that microcosm
of the world that they want in the waythat they show up because that is the way
(28:00):
that the larger cultural shift emerges.
And I also feel like I often getto empower people to support other
people to be those seeds, right?
And it's this like ripple effect.
Jeremy Blanchard (28:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jess Serrante (28:12):
Yeah.
Yeah..
Jeremy Blanchard (28:17):
Like, there's a theory of change that says we believe
that in order to bring about theworld we want to see, we have to show
up as the compassionate, forgiving,centered, grounded, earth-connected,
ancestor-connected, inclusive, etc.
(28:40):
ways.
We have to show up in that whilecreating and and living into that future.
Jess Serrante (28:49):
Yeah,
Jeremy Blanchard (28:50):
I want to build on something you're saying, right?
There's the people that we'reso dedicated to supporting.
We care so much aboutmovements for social justice.
We care so much about the peoplewho are dedicating themselves to it.
Like that's at the end of the day,one of the big reasons we're here.
And I think there's also a piecein here about like transformational
(29:11):
work or like work that has us livingmore in line with our deepest values.
hmm.
And frees us up to beable to live in alignment.
I think there's healing work that'sreally important on the way there.
There's learning how to relate toour bodies and somatic work, right?
(29:37):
There's mindfulness work.
There's all thesedifferent ways into that.
So whether it's coaching or not,There's this like deep longing to, um,
be a part of people's transformation.
And I think for me, and I probably forboth of us, that one on one or small group
(29:58):
setting is where we've just encounteredso much transformational possibility.
Like we've been in conversations withclients where we see someone get past
something that has been holding them backfor a long and find a way into a new way
of showing up toward their work or towardstheir lives or towards their personal
sustainability or towards their community.
It can be at any level in a way that'sjust like, heart opening, and like, you
(30:24):
know, brings us to tears sometimes, yeah.
Right?
To see, like, again, I keep comingback to this phrase, like, best
qualities of humanity, like, we getto see someone's humanity shine forth.
And I know there are other ways to dothat beyond this one on one and small
group and coaching-esque approach.
(30:44):
But this is the one that I have found,you know, the one that I has impacted
me and is therefore the one thatI'm most called to bring to others.
Um, so I think there's something in thereabout like, why stick with the coaching
modality when there's so many weirdthings going on in the field is like,
this intimacy of a container where you'remeeting someone right where they're at.
(31:08):
And you're ushering them, you're guiding,escorting them, you're standing alongside
them as they open into their next levelof expression, growth, and contribution.
Jess Serrante (31:20):
What thrills me as an activist first is getting to be
alongside someone when they're readyto be, um, reaching out into the world.
I love getting to be with someonewhen It's like that dance between the
inner world and the outer world andthe impact that they want to um, just
(31:46):
like really it's really satisfying.
Jeremy Blanchard (31:48):
Yeah.
Yep.
Amen.
Jess Serrante (31:52):
Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm so excited to get to
listen to the conversations that youhave and to continue to have these
kinds of conversations with you.
I think there's another pieceabout like being in community with
one another as practitioners inthis space, because for me, this
is like profoundly spiritual work.
(32:16):
And I can forget that sometimes.
In the, like, frustrating slog oftrying to, like, have a business.
You know, building an online presenceand a website and all the shit that
I, like, wish I didn't have to do.
Like, I can just sort of, losesight of the like, energetic
(32:40):
core of why this all matters.
And so I'm excited because itfeels like lighting a candle in the
dark here with these conversations.
Where we can come back to again andagain, how endlessly thrilling it is to
think about what it is for us to fully,spiritually, somatically, creatively
(33:08):
embody the kind of leadership thatwe want for our world in this moment.
And creating spaces for us toremember what it's really about,
why we do this work, and how we,um, how we as practitioners stay
aligned with what matters to us ina world that's really fucking noisy
and and a field that and culture thatwants to like pull us into paying
(33:33):
attention to different things, right?
Like how many times have bothof us been like sidetracked?
By like the right ways to market theright ways to have a business who
you're supposed to be as a coach.
I'm, so glad I mean it's it's neverover right but i'm so glad now like
10 years into this work to not beso easily thwarted by that because
at the beginning it was hard.
(33:55):
I constantly felt like I neededto be someone else like I
was doing everything wrong.
And over time, we've come tolike deepen our trust in who we
are and what we have to offer.
But I think that thathappens in community.
And that's a piece of why this podcastis so important, because Jeremy,
something we had that a lot of coachesdon't, is that we had a moment.
(34:16):
When we came into this work together, wehad via Zo Tobi, the coach that brought
us both into coaching and beloved friend,this community of young activists turned
coaches who all fell in love with thiswork together and we were swimming in
(34:40):
these kinds of questions together, which Ithink if we hadn't had that, I don't know
that I would still be doing this work.
So hopefully this existing and being likea beacon of like your people, you person
with your heart burning for change in theworld and that's what made you fall in
(35:01):
love with the possibility of this to likesee that your people are out there, that
we're here and that there's a lot of us.
You know, like maybe we'll, Ihope, my prayer for this project
is that it'll keep people in
Jeremy Blanchard (35:15):
it.
That's right.
Oh.
Thank you.
Yeah.
That's my deepest hope for too, isthat it's a rallying point broadly,
but then there's people who wantto come in and connect with one
another in some way through, um,whatever means we can get create.
Jess Serrante (35:34):
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I don't know if you've chosen this
for yourself, but convinced thisis a part of your purpose is to
like, create a space for us to betogether and think about this together
because it's so deeply fulfilling.
And um, Yeah, maybe I'll stay inthe game because it it matters.
Jeremy Blanchard (35:55):
Amen.
Will you tell us about the, uh, will yougive us a little, like, preview, Jess,
of the, uh, podcast you're working on?
Oh, yeah.
This is a, a podcasting friendship.
Jess Serrante (36:09):
Yeah totally.
Um, yeah, so I'm working on a podcast,called We Are the Great Turning, which
is a 10 episode series about climatechange and spirituality and possibility,
(36:29):
and it's a series of conversationsbetween myself and my beloved, soon
to be 95 year old mentor, Joanna Macy,who is a spiritual giant in this world.
She's a Buddhist.
She's a systems thinker.
She's a, deep ecologist.
She created a body of workcalled The Work That Reconnects.
(36:52):
Um, but in this podcast, thetwo of us are talking about what
is it to be alive in this time.
Yeah.
Yeah really excited
Jeremy Blanchard (37:03):
to
Jess Serrante (37:04):
put this out in the world.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:05):
Me too.
Jess Serrante (37:06):
Hahaha.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:07):
Yeah, it feels so of the same spirit as this podcast.
Cause we're both dedicatedto the same mission.
And you've been a huge part of mypodcast, this podcast, Wider Roots
coming into being, and it's beensuch a joy to get to stand beside
you as you're like very long andin depth project is coming forward.
(37:31):
And to see the like absolutelyheartbreakingly beautiful conversations
that You got to have Joanna.
So, um, I'm excited to have youback on the show many times, uh,
including, when the We Are TheGreat Turning Podcast comes out.
Jess Serrante (37:48):
Cool.
Yay.
Thank you.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:52):
Love you.
Jess Serrante (37:52):
I love you.
I'm so glad you're doing this.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:54):
Thanks.
Glad we're doing it together in some ways.
Jess Serrante (37:57):
We are.
Jeremy Blanchard (37:58):
In so many ways.
Thanks friend.
Thank you so much for listening.
Episode two is availablenow in your podcast feed.
It's with my buddy Mazin Jamal.
(38:18):
And we get to dive into some reallymeaningful conversations about creating
belonging in our movement spaces.
Mazin Jamal (38:25):
How can we create such rich belonging that there's room to challenge
each other without fearing that we'regoing to be kicked out of the group?
Jeremy Blanchard (38:34):
And episode three comes out in two weeks.
So keep an eye out for that and makesure you subscribe in your podcast app.
If you'd like to tap into theresources I've collected at this
intersection of personal and systemictransformation, including books,
videos, and training programs, youcan head over to WiderRoots.com to
sign up for the free newsletter.
(38:55):
And you can email me atpodcast@widerroots.com.
I would really love to hearwhat's resonating with you.
And if there are any questionsyou have that you'd love to
see us explore on the show.
Thanks to wild choir for thetheme music for the show.
You're currently listening to their song,Remember Me, which will play us out.
(39:16):
See you next time.
Jess Serrante (40:11):
You're listening to Wider Roots.
Jeremy Blanchard (40:13):
You're listening to the Wider Roots Podcast.
Podcast
Jess Serrante (40:15):
My name is Jeremy Blanchard.
I'll be your guide and your captain today.
Jeremy Blanchard (40:21):
Please keep your seatbelts on, follow
all crew member instructions.
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