August 13, 2024 • 57 mins
🎙️ Curious about political engagement and the intricacies of election campaigns? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Wendy Davis, a former Utah House of Representatives candidate and accomplished political science PhD from the University of Utah. Wendy shares her vast knowledge and experience, shedding light on the critical importance of informed voting and political socialization.
🔍 Highlights:
- 🌟 Political Awareness: Discover how family and educational institutions shape political awareness and learn about the significant surge in political interest, especially among women.
- 💪 Women in Politics: Explore the societal conditioning that influences women's perceptions of their qualifications and ambitions. Wendy and I reflect on our personal experiences and the challenges of overcoming deeply ingrained biases.
- 🗳️ Campaign Insights: Get an insider's look into the strategic manipulation and power plays behind political campaigns, and the influence of political parties on elections. Understand the unique challenges faced by third-party candidates
- 🌱 Youth Engagement: Learn about the importance of engaging younger generations in politics and ensuring every vote counts.
✨ Join us for this enriching episode that promises to challenge your perceptions and inspire action in your political journey.
https://www.wendydavisutah.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Audra (00:00):
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week we're going to have avery exciting and timely
conversation, with the politicalraces quickly heating up as it
is going to be voting seasonsoon.
My guest this week is ringsideseat expert.
My guest is Dr Wendy Davis.
(00:22):
Dr Davis has a PhD and she is aformer candidate for the Utah
House of Representatives.
She holds a PhD in politicalscience from the University of
Utah and her research interestsare the educational policy,
political socialization andstate and local government.
This is very near and dear toher heart and, like I said, she
(00:44):
had a ringside seat in her ownpolitical campaign.
She's here to share herexperience and her passion with
the political scene, to helpeducate us as we go to the
voting polls.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Wendy Wendy.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Wendy (01:04):
Wendy Wendy, thank you so much for being here and
welcome to the show, thank you.
Audra (01:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
I am very excited to be here.
I did lots of homework toprepare for you to be here
because this is a really veryimportant subject.
I don't think that preparingfor voting has ever been more
important.
I will tell you quite frankly Imean, I'm almost 53 years old
(01:31):
and before, eight years ago,nine years ago, I don't think I
ever prepared for voting.
I don't think I ever didhomework for voting, and I know
that that's shameful, but Idon't think I ever took it
seriously because I don't thinkI understood.
I didn't understand the systems, I didn't understand the
(01:52):
responsibility and I didn'tunderstand the repercussions.
And I think I'm not alone, Ithink I'm in good company.
But I did a lot of homework toprepare, to speak to you
intelligently, and you, I thinkyou wrote a book because you
(02:13):
share not only do you share someof the sentiments of that, and
you are educated in this.
You had an education of yourown, being a political candidate
, learning firsthand of how muchwe don't know.
So let's peel back the layers alittle bit and let's first
start with me and my admissions,and me speaking for a lot of
(02:40):
Americans as to why, initially,we didn't understand voting, our
responsibility of voting oreven the repercussions until
maybe eight or nine years ago.
Why is that, yeah?
Wendy (02:55):
absolutely Well.
I think that's really common.
There is a sub-sub topic inpolitical science called
political socialization, andit's really how you as a person
usually a young person come intopolitics.
How do you understand politics,how do you learn about voting,
how do you know about elections?
(03:16):
And it shouldn't surpriseanyone that most of that
socialization comes from yourfamily.
Also, it can come frominstitutions like school or
trusted adults that are aroundyou, but I think there's a lot
of.
For a lot of people, it's justnot something culturally that
they've experienced before, andfor a lot of women in particular
not just women, but a lot ofpeople the 2016 election changed
(03:41):
things for them, and you knowthe results of that election,
where Donald Trump triumphedover Hillary Clinton, were great
moments for some people andunbelievably devastating for
other people, and I have metdozens and dozens of women who
said I never really paidattention until then.
(04:02):
And then I started to payattention and in 2018, it
occurred to me you know, on thatballot it was a midterm
election and we have, you know,school board candidates and city
council and the assessor andall of these offices.
Do you even know what thatperson does?
(04:24):
And so I put out a message onmy neighborhood Facebook page.
I'm like I'm having two nightsand you're welcome to bring your
lawn chair and come to my houseand I'm going to throw up on
the screen.
We're going to look at theballot, we're going to talk
through every race, I'm going toexplain what every office does
and then you can bring yourballot and fill it out.
I will not tell you who to votefor.
I will skip the big ones, thesenatorial election, you all
know that.
(04:44):
But let's talk about what allthese offices do.
And people showed up at myhouse with their ballots and
they said no one's everexplained it to me before and I
thought that doesn't surprise me.
I think you know how do youlearn If you don't learn through
school or you learn throughyour family?
You don't know what you don'tknow.
And another thing that we knowabout political socialization we
(05:07):
know that younger voters 18 to25, I don't care how great they
think they are they vote withthe lowest voter turnout of all
the age groups.
They are sometimes the mostenraged and passionate, but it
doesn't show up why.
There's a lot of reasons whythey're still mobile.
(05:29):
They don't have permanentresidency, they don't know how a
city council, how garbagepickup, how a streetlight, how
you know the school boardraising a bond, impacts them
directly.
And so until you start to havesome of those experiences as a
taxpayer, or children are inschool or something happened to
me there are different thingsthat make us pay closer
(05:50):
attention.
So your experience is normal,it's perfectly normal, and the
great news is you're engaged ata different level now and you do
research and you're a littlebit more involved in the
political process.
Audra (06:01):
I am very involved through research, educating
myself, and, even if I didn'twant to be, my children forced
the issue Because in 2016, mykids were 16 and just about 18.
(06:22):
So my son was just about theage to vote, but he was
graduating from high school.
He really didn't care.
He's getting ready for college.
Nobody cared.
They did not care at the moment, and then their minds exploded.
So then, when it came time tothe 2020 election, they were
like, oh no, they came home withbooklets and they poured over
(06:49):
them for days and then keep inmind, this was all during COVID,
so we were all really comfytogether.
So they arranged it and theysaid on this day, we're going to
sit down at the kitchen tableand we're going to walk through
this booklet line by line byline together to make sure that
(07:10):
we all understand what is goingon.
And, first of all, I wascompletely overwhelmed and,
second of all, I was incrediblyproud and I didn't know which
one I was feeling more of at thetime.
Didn't know which one I wasfeeling more of at the time.
So I was really.
I was thrilled that this hadhappened to encourage them to
(07:32):
take this much attention.
But then it also made me feeloh my gosh.
It took this many years to makeme stand up and pay attention
and to have this level ofeducation which, like I said, is
exactly one of the reasons whywe're having this conversation
today, because by the time thisairs, it should be about July
(07:54):
and we are going to be in thethick of it.
You're going to be bombarded bypolitical ads, you're going to
probably be getting phone calls,there's going to be loads of
confusion.
You're not going to know whichend is up.
So Wendy is here to give you aringside seat as to what's going
(08:14):
on, what is the back end ofwhat happens in politics, and
how to help us navigate throughthe noise, and how to help us
navigate through the noise.
So first we're going to talk alittle bit about her story.
Now, as I mentioned to you,this is her livelihood, this is
what sets her soul on fire.
(08:35):
She's always had this heart forpolitics and she wrote an
amazing book that is the Fightyou Don't See, and I have an
excerpt, a couple of quotes thatI'm going to read to you from
her book.
And this is I'm going to readto you a quote right now which
(08:55):
is from when she was a page inthe Illinois State Senate.
Yes, correct, and you had justmet Mr Brady.
You were on the floor for theBrady bill.
Wendy (09:15):
If I, if I remember correctly, when reading this,
reading this passage, sarahBrady was there to speak before
the body advocating for theBrady bill.
Audra (09:19):
And and this was when it really set your soul on fire
and you're like I'm going to runfor office because you tell the
story, that you're like, oh,this is, this is a historical
moment, I need to mark thissomehow.
And you, you said, you grabbeda Senate calendar and you asked
him to sign it and he you knowhe was limited ability to to
(09:44):
speak and obviously he was in awheelchair, but he graciously
agreed to it.
And that's when it sparked thispassion for it.
And this is the quote from thebook that, when I read this,
this honestly, this pulled meinto your book.
And here's the quote.
It's at the time I didn't knowhow the fight would look, but
(10:07):
something about that smallinteraction with Mr Brady
inspired me, as if those fewwords and fleeting moments he
had instilled in me thedetermination of an advocate.
I knew it wouldn't be easy, butif I fought hard enough, maybe
I could make a real change inthe world.
I think many people go intopolitics feeling that same way.
(10:28):
I'm going to go into politicsand I'm going to change the
world.
I'm going to make a differencein this world.
I'm going to make a differencefor my neighbors, my community,
because they need it, and thatprobably was the same for you.
So I know that you went inDistrict 45, state of Utah, went
(10:49):
in and you're like I'm smart,I'm multi-degreed, I know what
I'm doing here.
I am, let me make a difference.
I'm going to let you take thestory from there, yeah sure.
Wendy (11:02):
Well, there was a lot of time that passed from that
19-year-old who got to meet MrBrady and for those who are
listening who don't know who MrBrady is, he was Ronald Reagan's
press secretary and during theassassination attempt, on March
30th I think it was the 30th1981, mr Brady was struck by a
(11:22):
bullet and he took a bullet tothe head and was forever changed
.
And so, you know, as a youngperson, I watched that not in
real time, obviously, ontelevision, but the news stories
stuck with me and so it wassomething very important in my
life and even though Iidentified as a Democrat, it
didn't matter.
(11:42):
He was a hero to me, didn'tmatter what party he could have
come from Mars, and that wasjust such so powerful to me.
And there's actually a picture.
There was a Senate staffer whotook a picture of us,
unbeknownst to me, and it isdear to me and I just have this
look of admiration as I'msitting down and talking to him
and it's just so precious.
(12:03):
So a lot happened between 19year old me at 2020.
So you know, there's never agreat time to run.
I felt like I needed to becredentialed.
I never felt like I was goodenough.
I had been told you need to beon city councils or you need to
be so active in your community.
If you don't have 50 volunteers, you're never going to make it.
If you don't have X amount ofmoney, you're never going to
(12:23):
make it.
And I'm like you know what?
I think I can do this, and so Ihad this job.
I traveled all the time.
I got a job that was located inSalt Lake City area, where I
live, so I didn't have to travel.
I finished my PhD, I turned mydissertation in and I'm like
okay, what's next?
Like literally, I turned thedissertation and the next week I
(12:43):
started telling people I wasgoing to run for office and I
showed up at county conventionand they're like who are you?
We don't know who you are.
I'm like, yeah, I know, Itravel, I sell software, I'm a
busy woman, but I'm here, I'mready to go.
And so I knew in my heart thisis what I want to do.
And I was ready.
I was ready to go.
(13:04):
And so I declared that I wantedto run as a Democrat against the
10-year incumbent in mydistrict.
I'd done my research.
I knew the district wasflippable.
I had a PhD in politicalscience, I know how to do
statistical analysis.
I'd watched the trends overthree elections.
I saw it turning more and moretoward the center and I saw
(13:24):
candidates chipping away at thatmargin every single time and I
thought, if I'm committed and Ican run a solid campaign, I
think I might have a chanceagainst this guy.
And so that's what I set mysights on.
And then COVID hit and itdisrupted like there's so much
that was disruptive four yearsago in 2020.
(13:47):
And can you imagine trying torun your first campaign I have
no idea what I'm doing anyway.
Fundraising stops.
There's no door knocking.
I don't really like we don'tknow if the world's going to
stop rotating on its axis andfor how long.
And I'm like all right, I'mgoing to do it.
And so did you know, ran thiscampaign and my only goal was to
not lose in a landslide and westarted picking up momentum and
(14:12):
suddenly people were recognizingme and had heard about me, and
people I didn't even know werelike we're voting for you.
I'm like, really, I was likeyou know me.
And then, and it was reallysilly silly because I'm sending
out emails, I'm sending outtexts, I have a social media
presence, I'm sending outmailers.
I'm knocking on doors.
Of course, people are eventuallygoing to know who I am, and so,
(14:33):
yeah, so the book is about.
It's my life story, but it istold through this lens of what
happened during my campaignrunning as a Democrat in the
state of Utah against a verypopular incumbent during COVID
and facing challenges that Inever dreamed I would face
(14:54):
Challenges within my own party,challenges with power structures
, people who control the money,people who control the politics,
people who control religion youknow all of these power
structures and I'm like I got towrite about this because nobody
talks about this Nobody.
No candidates write booksbecause they either win and
(15:18):
they're busy or they lose andthey fly away into the ether and
never to be heard about again.
But the things that happened Iknew were important enough and
generalizable enough that mystory would be relatable enough
that people would see themselvesin it.
Right, and I'm like there arenot enough firsthand political
(15:39):
narratives written by averagepeople written by average people
.
So that's why I sat on it for acouple of years.
I'm like I really feelcompelled that I need to tell
what happened, and that's wherewe are.
Audra (15:57):
Well, we're going to continue to go through your book
and we're going to educate.
Like I said, the running themeis to educate the audience on
how the political system works,but also to help the audience
see themselves in you.
I'm going to read another quotefrom your book because, as I
had mentioned to you before wegot on the air, some of these
(16:18):
quotes I underwrote, Ihighlighted because they gutted
me, because they rang true forme and they made me sit with it
for a minute and go oh, I needto work on this.
So I'm going to read this andhopefully not cry through it.
So are you ready, wendy?
(16:38):
I am Okay.
Like so many women, I doubted mycredentials no-transcript
(17:10):
thought and maybe I would bequalified to be a candidate.
At the center of this mindsetwas the idea that I had to earn
it.
Public office wasn't somethingyou stumbled into.
You showed your commitment,invested time and eventually
earned the honor of serving yourconstituents.
(17:34):
Over the years, I realized thatthis mindset is so.
Female Women are conditioned tobelieve that we must be
qualified, we need to pay ourdues and put in the work and
maybe, if we work hard enough,we can have our shot.
Men rarely think this way.
This gutted me, jumped off thepage, I highlighted it and sat
(17:59):
with it for a moment and cried alittle Because it was too true.
And this was you thinking aboutit in a political sense.
I thought about it in myprofessional sense and actually
this came.
This quote came ringing to myfront of my cortex today, an
(18:26):
hour ago, in a conversation thatI had, and I thought I got to
fix this.
I've been conditioned.
I got to fix this.
I cannot exist like thisanymore.
And if this is how I've beenconditioned and this is how I
walk through the world, this isalso how I'm voting.
Wendy (18:48):
It's a lot, it really is a lot, and it took me to be a
woman of a certain age torealize what we've all been
conditioned to believe.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with this campaign, but
you should definitely look itup.
There's a campaign that Matteland Barbie is running right now
(19:08):
and it's just a series of littlegirls and I mean it gives me
chills just to think about it inthe worst possible way by the
age of five, more people areGoogling is my son special?
But they're not asking abouttheir daughters by the age of
(19:30):
seven.
They're pushing me toward thesetypes of books and not these
types of books, and you can'tblame things on society in
general, but there's a certainamount of conditioning that
happens.
But I think for us as women youknow, we, we at least.
I can't speak for all women, Ican only speak for myself.
(19:51):
I was under this impressionthat, like all right, I've got
to work, work toward this in acertain direction, and that was
my true ambition was to be thefirst woman governor of Illinois
and it was very intentional toget that job as a 19 year old.
The next year I got the job inthe bureaucracy.
I don't write about that in thebook.
And I was hustling a job.
(20:12):
I had a student work, study job, and I'm asking everybody who
walks through the door do youknow anyone in Springfield,
illinois, that might give me ajob?
I was like I do, actually, andso I called them.
He gave me a list of managersand this is before the internet
right In the late eighties and Icalled the least intimidating
person name on the list.
(20:32):
It was a person named Val.
I didn't know.
Val was a man.
Val answered the phone and he'slike, sure, come down to
Springfield for an interview.
So I take all the little moneyI have and put gas in my car and
I drive down there.
And I researched everything Icould about the Department of
Natural Energy and Resources andhe asked me all kinds of
(20:53):
questions and he says I have onequestion for you what drives
you?
You are 20 years old, you puton a business suit, came down
from Shorey Illinois to sit inmy office.
What drives you?
And I said it's very simple.
I don't want to live in povertylike my family has.
(21:13):
I want a better life and Ithink I'm smart enough to do it
and I want to break that cycle.
And he's like you've got a job.
I mean, what 20 year old doesthat?
And I mean I was much braverthan I would have been, but it
was.
It was that whole.
And whether you know, and I'vebeen a woman in tech my whole
(21:34):
career too and and alwaysconditioned I've worked for
amazing employers.
So I've never felt treated thisway by any of my employers.
But I know that women in techstruggle to be seen as engineers
and developers, right, so yeah.
But I don't know one man who'slike.
(21:54):
I wonder if I'm qualified torun for the state legislature.
Do I have the right degree?
Did I build my pedigreecorrectly?
Do I have that?
I just don't know those people.
Maybe men think that way, butI'll tell you, I've met over 100
female candidates and, withencouragement, they will run
(22:17):
when asked directly.
When someone says you can dothis, I believe in you.
Sometimes that's all it takes,and I don't know what that says
about our culture and oursociety, but I think that you, I
other women, we can be the onesthat tap them on the shoulders
that you got this.
I believe in you.
You don't need anything elsebut to be you.
(22:37):
That's all you need.
Audra (22:40):
Well, let's fast forward a little bit to you being in
the campaign.
You're in the thick of thiscampaign.
You have raised your hand,you're like I'm running, I'm
doing it, and the moment you getinto the thick of it, you start
challenging the systems.
In the book you start writingabout how you are immediately
(23:07):
challenging their data.
You're talking about and youjust mentioned you're a woman in
tech and whether you areinstalling the tech or not, if
you are a tech executive, if youare out there selling the tech,
if you are an account executivefor the tech, you need to at
(23:27):
least know how it works.
So you have to have some levelof knowledge of how data works.
So in your book, you are sayingthat they're presenting data to
you, calculations in regards tohow they're trying to support
(23:47):
certain races and certaincandidates, and you're pushing
on them and saying how'd youcome up with these calculations?
And they're saying, well, wejust did.
And you keep pushing on themand saying, well, how?
And they're like well, we justdid.
And you said something that inyour book that started to really
(24:10):
startle me and you said thatthis is how the races are run
and how they're determined.
Is that they're run behindclosed doors?
Tell us a little bit about that.
What do you mean?
That they're run behind closeddoors?
Wendy (24:27):
yeah, I think there's.
You know, I feel like I was abit of a political anomaly.
I wasn't recruited, I wasn'tvetted.
I'm like I'm gonna do this andI'm gonna put my name on the
ballot.
There's a lot of other timeswhen there's a lot of strategic
thought that goes into who isthe right candidate.
(24:48):
Is this district one that isflippable?
Who is the incumbent?
Who could we get to run againstthem?
What is the probability of justa random Democrat being in the
race?
All things being equal, what istheir probability?
What if we get a qualifiedDemocrat and running that?
So there's a lot of strategythat happens, more so than I
(25:08):
think most people would think.
The average public, I don'tthink, realizes that.
They probably think that forbig Senate candidates or
presidential candidates orsomething, but I think even at
local races there's a lot ofstrategy that happens, and the
(25:32):
scene that you described, thatwas a power move, meaning people
who have the information andwho want to shield that
information and protect it havepower over you.
So I was constantly trying touse my credentials and my
intellect and my knowledge ofstatistical data and political
data specifically to say like Iknow enough how to poke holes in
this.
I'm asking you to validate thisfor me, and the refusal to do
(25:55):
that was continuing to havepower over me.
Right, and you know, politicalinstitutions parties being a
very big political institutionthat all of us are familiar with
have a tremendous amount ofpower.
Parties can decide who gets ona ballot.
Parties can keep people off ofthe ballot to meet their own
needs, and those are the backdoor deals that I don't think
(26:19):
people realize.
Even somebody sometimes evenmaking it to the ballot is very
interesting.
And in Utah we have a caucussystem which means that
individuals in their housedistrict a very small number of
people in Utah are really makingthe decisions because they're
the ones that show up.
We've got a very by the timethis airs.
(26:42):
It should have been decided inJune.
We'll have a primary.
There's like seven Senatecandidates on the Republican
side on the ballot and theamount of money going into those
campaigns strategic thought.
That's happening.
I just don't think people knowthat that is part of it.
Audra (27:04):
I'm going to share just a little bit more bad news about
this system before we actuallystart talking about some good
news, because there are thingsthat we can do about it, that we
have to do about it, that isour responsibility to do about
it, because we can't, we cannot,continue to to allow the system
to drag us, because the realityis, this is our system, and I
(27:30):
think that we've, throughconfusion, through, like you
said in the beginning, throughsocial adoption or not, it's
gotten a little out of control,but we have absolutely have the
power to get it back in control,gotten a little out of control,
but we have absolutely have thepower to get it back in control
.
I'll share one more bit of badnews, because it jumped off the
page at me and I was like, oh mygosh, I have I have to mention
(27:52):
this because this blows my mindwhen you were sitting across the
table from the Democraticleader of the Utah House.
You're having breakfast withhim and he literally says to you
that he, that he can't publiclyendorse you, can't endorse you
because your competitor is agood friend of mine.
(28:14):
I know he's a Republican, buthe's a good guy and a friend.
What?
The Democratic House, theDemocratic House, your party
that you are running under.
He can't endorse you becausethe other party is he's a good
dude and he's my friend and Ican't.
I can't hurt his feelings, Ican't hurt my friend's feelings
(28:38):
hurt his feelings.
Wendy (28:39):
Yeah, that was an eye opener.
And I mean we fought about thatthroughout my campaign.
He and I did and I'm likelisten, I'm an Illinois Democrat
.
He's like what does that mean?
I'm like it means that leadersput their arms around their
candidates and say this is myperson, I'm supporting them, and
say to their friends you know,this is my responsibility, right
, as a party leader, this iswhat I do.
It is not personal, it ispolitics.
(29:00):
And now that person supportedme in other ways but did not
make a public donation, did notmake a public endorsement for
the integrity of the existingrelationship that he had with
that person.
I have told that story dozens oftimes.
I struggled whether I shouldput that story in the book or
(29:21):
not, because I do name thatperson by name.
They are a public figure.
They were a public figure and Iread that chapter out loud to a
trusted friend as I was doingsome editing and reviewing, and
that person audibly gasped andsaid are you sure you want to
say that?
I said it's true.
(29:41):
I'm like there are literallydozens of people who have heard
me say that and that is thefight you don't see.
You never expect as a Democratthat the party leader will say,
yeah, I just can't endorse you,they couldn't endorse me.
(30:03):
One of my biggest challengeswas that my competitor was very
well liked, but that one, thatone stung and I left it in the
book and I said to this person Isaid I've sat with this for
months and and I'm verycomfortable with this and if
somebody has a different accountthen they should write their
story.
But but that's what happened.
Audra (30:19):
So the fight that you don't see is not just the
political fight that you don'tknow that's happening, that you
don't see coming, but you alsohave an internal fight because
you are a woman, so you havethis bias that's going through
your head, that you've beenprogrammed to, that you don't
even realize is happening, butit's happening to many of us.
(30:42):
Realize is happening, but it'shappening to many of us.
I don't realize things arehappening until I read it on a
page that someone else isexperiencing and then I go oh my
God, that's true for me too.
So that fight is going.
And then you're fighting thispolitical system that you don't
know exists.
So this is the fight that youdon't see but is clearly
happening all the time.
(31:03):
It is the invisible fightthat's happening all around us,
every single day.
Wendy (31:09):
It absolutely is.
And one thing, audra, I wouldhope that anyone who shows up to
your door any of the listenershere you know as a political
candidate, even if you don'tagree with them, just be kind.
They cared enough to put ontheir tennis shoes and their
campaign t-shirt and knock onyour door in the middle of
sweaty August and Septemberbecause they're asking for your
(31:32):
vote, you know, and justremember that there's battles
that these people are fightingthat you'll never know about.
And, yeah, you might not agreewith their politics, but you can
respect them enough for justshowing up at your door.
And I, you might not agree withtheir politics, but you can
respect them enough for justshowing up at your door.
And I mean, I, thankfully I hadpeople who were kind to me and
I'll never forget there was anelderly woman and you can get a
(31:53):
really good vibe for someone atthe door pretty quickly and and
I just got the sense she didn'twant to talk and and I handed
her the flyer and I walked awayand she said I need to tell you
something.
She said I'm going to vote foryou because you showed up at my
door and that matters to me andI'm like you know what?
I never felt more like acandidate than when I was
(32:14):
knocking doors and talking topeople, and that was almost like
my therapy.
Every day I'm like I'm puttingon my shoes, I'm putting on my
t-shirt.
I'm going to get this cleansingeffect, because those are the
people that matter, these fightsthat I'm continually fighting
behind the scenes.
I'm actually fighting them forthese people.
So I just needed to be groundedand go out and do that every
(32:36):
day.
But there's a million fights.
You have people in your familywho say the weirdest things to
you.
Someone told me before Istarted a campaign, the biggest
enemy will come from within.
It won't be external.
And I'm like what?
I didn't believe it.
And then like the internalparty leader who should have
(32:57):
supported me you know afather-in-law who wouldn't
support me because I'm aDemocrat and like the people
closest to you who have theability to actually hurt you the
most Random strangers tellingyou on the internet you're fat
and ugly doesn't matter, theydon't matter, they don't matter.
But it's the internal ones thatare hurting the most.
(33:18):
That's the fight you don't see.
Audra (33:20):
Well, now that I know a little bit more, if a political
candidate shows up at my door Iwill listen.
I don't think I've ever had oneshow up, but now, if they do, I
absolutely will take the fiveminutes to listen about the
(33:41):
fight that goes on on the otherside of the political ads and
the phone calls and the textsand whatnot, other than the
annoyance that I feel on theother end because there's
because you get bombarded andyour mailbox gets stuffed, and
but I had no clue, I had no idea.
So we've talked about all thebad news and I think we, I think
(34:23):
we're all well aware.
I think, or we've been, we'vebeen suspect.
But how do we even out theplaying field?
I know that there is one,because there can't all be bad
news.
Our system is built for it tobe more of a fair fight.
So how do we make it more of afair fight?
Wendy (34:42):
So how do we make it more of a fair fight?
You know, honestly, that's oneof the reasons I wrote the book
is to try and demystify whatit's like to run for office for
people, and I think and in doingso you start to remove some of
the power from the powerstructures.
If I tell you this is whathappens in the political party
(35:03):
system, here's what you expect.
I advised a candidate a coupleof weeks ago who was like do I
need to do all this stuff?
I'm like let me explain thedifference to you between
political spectacle and theother parts.
You have to play the spectaclegame for these and this and this
reasons.
And as soon as I explained itto you, I said okay, I get it,
I'll do that.
And come May, you shift yourattention to your voters because
that's all that matters.
(35:24):
So, like trying to demystify it,how do we fix it?
We just get more peopleinvolved.
We also don't want to createsystems where people are
dissuaded from running and it'sreally hard out there.
I don't care what party you'refrom, it is hard out there.
I think there's a lot ofmisogyny in our culture right
now.
It's surfaced in like crazy,ridiculous ways and we need to
(35:47):
be supportive of women who arerunning for office of all
parties and make sure that we'reencouraging that and not making
these barriers to entry intothis political system so hard
that only the elite few can doit.
I think that's one of thethings we need to vote vote like
our lives depended on it,because they do.
(36:08):
Whether it's for state lawmakerswho are determining state house
boundaries and making surehouse districts aren't
gerrymandered, or reproductiverights, which are being punted
to the states, or attacks onfree thought and libraries and
in higher education, there arethings we can do and I have a
lot of hope.
I hope that you found that atthe end of the book I try to end
(36:30):
on a very hopeful note.
Despite, like, some reallycruddy things that happen.
I have to have hope and I haveto keep on moving.
As soon as I let the bastardsbeat me, they've won, and I'm
too much of a fighter to letthem win.
So I, you just can't letyourself get knocked down.
But I think a lot of people inpolitics, especially at the
(36:52):
national level, they just haveto like just, they have to close
out all the noise becausethere's so much of it and just
you know, become almost almostcharacters in some way, and just
a version of themselves thatcan move forward and do this.
Audra (37:09):
Do you believe the rhetoric that all people in
politics are at the top are bad,or are there good people at the
top?
Are there really good people atthe top of the food chain that
are good?
Wendy (37:25):
Yeah, I absolutely believe that there are really
great people in politics.
Even and it's no secret I am nofan of the former president,
donald Trump I even believe inhis administration there are
really great people trying to dogood things and trying to keep
him on track, and it's a tributeto your leadership.
The kind of people that yousurround yourself with.
(37:46):
Were all of them good?
Absolutely not.
I do believe that there weresome good people.
Yes, I believe in Congress andthe United States Senate and the
presidency that there arefantastic people doing great
things.
I know people who work in theBiden administration.
I am friendly with my formercongressman as much.
I write in the book how Ididn't vote for Mitt Romney
(38:06):
twice.
It means that you know like,the presidency is held by
(38:28):
Democrats and the House and theSenate are held by Democrats,
but we're still able to getthings done with Republicans,
like or the House is controlledby one party and the Senate is
controlled by another, but we'restill.
You know, one is notobstructing the other.
So I absolutely see greatthings in individuals.
Are there outliers who make usthink that it's not great?
(38:51):
Absolutely, but it's just noise.
There are 435 members ofCongress and 100 senators and
maybe a couple of detractorsthat are just not awesome.
I really genuinely think thevast majority of them are pretty
darn good people.
Audra (39:11):
So what about this idea of a third party candidate?
So there's been some talk of it.
I mean there's been talk aboutit for a long time, I mean
there's.
The reality is is that thereare multiple pardon me, there
are multiple parties in thiscountry.
They just have not been takenseriously as political
(39:31):
candidates.
There have been many that havebeen on the ballots for
presidency but again, have notbeen taken seriously, only have
been taken as detractors, untilthis year.
This year there is oneindividual that is making some
(39:55):
significant noise and people arestarting to pay attention and
say if anybody can make a run asa third party for the
presidency, it's this one and itis Robert F Kennedy Jr.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because many people right noware thinking we need a third
option.
Wendy (40:16):
I definitely think we need multiple options, for sure,
and I understand why thecurrent slate is undesirable to
some people.
I'm going to roll it back alittle bit in history.
And the first year, the secondtime I was able to vote for
president was 1992.
And that is the year thatGeorge HW Bush ran for a second
(40:37):
term.
Bill Clinton was a first termcandidate for presidency on the
ballot and H Ross Perot wasrunning as a third party
candidate.
Audra (40:47):
I remember this.
Wendy (40:48):
I do remember this.
It was like the whole MTV rockthe vote try and get more young
people to vote and all of my GenX friends were like down with
the establishment.
I'm voting for Perot.
And do you remember what youmay or may not remember?
But he wanted to simplify thetax form right, like taxes
should be across the board, xpercent for all people.
(41:08):
It should be one flat tax.
Let's do it Like one idea,right?
I don't think that he got oneelectoral college vote and he
got a lot of votes and he wasmaking quite a go of it.
I'm going to fast forward to2016, something more modern and
(41:29):
Evan McMullin.
So, first of all, there'salways a lot of people in the
ballot for president, but EvanMcMullin, former CIA with Utah
ties, decided to run forpresident in 2016.
Because morally, he had been aRepublican and he's like I just
cannot with Donald Trump, I justcan't.
And so he ran and made somegreat strides in some of the
(41:55):
intermountain states Utah,arizona, california.
He came in third in Utah and hehad the most following in Utah.
Evan McMullin also ran as anindependent for the United
States Senate in 2022 and didnot win against Mike Lee.
Here's what we know as politicalscientists.
It is extremely challenging towin as a third-party candidate.
(42:18):
And let me tell you why thatparty ID matters.
It matters in ways that socialscientists study how much party
ID matters.
It matters in ways that socialscientists study how much party
ID matters.
You might not even beaffiliated as a mainstream party
participant I am not signed upfor either.
(42:46):
They love saying that, but intruth they might not be.
But they often lean one way orthe other.
They love to declare theirindependence, but they still
tend to vote a certain way Atthe end of the day.
When it comes down to looking atcandidates on the ballot, a lot
of people use that party ID asa signal.
I vote only for Democrats, Idon't vote for Republicans or
only vote for Republicans, right, and so that party ID matters.
(43:09):
I'll vote for anybody, but thisperson.
I cannot explain to you howimportant that party ID is.
Still, do I think RFK Jr willget some votes?
Yeah, will it be enough to makeany difference?
Absolutely not.
But what he's signaling andhe's the crazy Kennedy cousin
that nobody wants anything tomake any difference?
Absolutely not.
But what he's signaling, andhe's the crazy Kennedy cousin
that nobody wants anything to dowith.
By the way, I mean long legacyof Democrats.
(43:32):
His uncle was president.
His father was horrificallyassassinated as he was running
for president in 1968.
So long line of strong Kennedysand they're like we don't want
anything to do with you.
But what his run is symbolizingis that we are clamoring for
something different, and it'sreally.
How do we figure out how tomake space in this entrenched,
(43:57):
encumbered, sometimes nastypolitical system of a two-party
system?
How can somebody break through?
That is a monumental shift.
So we get detractors.
I wouldn't even call themdetractors, but we get people
that are trying.
The Green Party or Ralph Naderran for years, or Harry Brown
(44:19):
ran as a libertarian.
I think he's the new thing.
He might get some votes.
There'll be protest votes,there'll be
anti-disestablishment votes, butit won't be anything that will
make a difference in any state.
Audra (44:37):
I think that that's both disturbing, but also people
should pay attention becausethere are entire generations.
You and I are both Gen X and Ican't relate to these two old
dudes on the ballot.
I don't have anything in commonwith these two old dudes.
(44:58):
You don't have anything incommon with these two old dudes.
I would love a third option.
I know you would love a thirdoption.
I know you would love a thirdoption.
But the generations below us,these millennials and these Gen
Zs and these Gen Zs that arejust coming up, and some of them
this is their very firstelection to vote in they
certainly don't have anything.
They don't have anything incommon with these two old dudes.
(45:19):
They're like.
These two guys are so out oftouch.
They are like our greatgrandfather's age.
What did they know?
Do they even know how to usetechnology?
Do they know how to TikTok orwhatever it is?
They need somebody to relate tothem.
I mean, and let's face it, theboomer generation is fading out.
(45:41):
Our generation is not very big,and I mean and we?
But we are rebellious, we liketo do our own thing, our own way
.
But these millennials and theseGen Zs are a big, big, loud
voice because we taught them tobe.
We taught them to beindividuals and loud and stand
(46:04):
their ground and be proud ofbeing unique and being heard.
We raised them to be that way.
If we don't hear them, they'regoing to rebel.
Wendy (46:22):
I hope they do.
I hope that they rise up andwant to be involved.
I think the systems are seen ingeneral as politics are for old
people.
I really do.
I have four stepchildren all intheir 20.
That about kills me.
They don't vote because theydon't think it matters If
(46:43):
they're not voting.
If these people aren't voting,they're definitely not going to
run for office.
In my school district there'san 18-year-old new high school
graduate who's running forschool board and I am his
biggest fan.
Audra (46:57):
Good for you.
Yeah, good for you.
Wendy (47:01):
I mean, I hope he gets it, I hope he gets it, I'm
hoping he gets it.
And so, yeah, there's anenthusiasm gap.
I've heard it called anenthusiasm gap for politics.
It's easy to get this crowdincensed.
Our attention spans are shorter.
(47:23):
We consume bits and bytes ofinformation.
We don't like to go in depth.
How do we appeal to that groupof people?
How do we appeal to them enoughto say I need you to get
civically engaged, right?
But I understand, I completelyunderstand the sentiment that a
septuagenarian and octogenarianand the top of the ticket, we,
(47:44):
we, we got to do differently.
Audra (48:13):
The power to have our voices heard.
Wendy (48:15):
And it does matter, and I know that we've heard a lot
that it doesn't matter becauseof the popular vote and the
Electoral College and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know what A lot of that isnoise and fear mongering.
I lost by seven, eight votes.
9,671 people voted for me.
Had two more people in everyone of my precincts voted, I
would have won when you break itdown that way.
Had two more of my neighborsvoted for me here, here, here,
here.
Like your vote does matter.
(48:35):
My friend, suzanne Harrison,lost her first election in 2016
by three votes, three, countthem three.
So, yeah, we can buy into thatnational politics.
So at the presidential level,the calculus is different, the
math is different, the way thatit's done is different, the
system's different, but yourvote matters at every other
(48:56):
level.
It matters at every level.
But, yeah, we've just hit.
We just need people tounderstand that and believe that
.
And there's nothing moredevastating than coming so close
and like, oh, 78 votes,goodness me Right.
And I had people on the streetsay, literally random people say
, oh well, I didn't knock doorsfor you because I thought you
(49:17):
had this in the bag.
I'm like I never thought I hadit in the bag.
How did you think that?
I'm like, I never thought I hadit in the bag.
How did you think that?
So yeah, every vote matters,every vote counts, and there's
so much more on your balancethan just candidates.
They're major issues and, and,symbolically, the candidates
that you're voting for are goingto enact the measures that
(49:39):
matter to you, right?
And so, when you think about itthat way, the stakes are super
high.
Audra (49:47):
How do they educate themselves without becoming
overwhelmed?
I feel it every single timethat paper booklet arrives in
the mail.
My chest tightens and I go, ohmy gosh, I have to read this
whole thing.
How do we break it down so wedon't feel overwhelmed when that
thing comes in the mail and wecan educate ourselves, so we can
(50:07):
know that we are votingappropriately and aren't just
checking boxes?
How do we do it?
Wendy (50:13):
Yeah, I mean most candidates have websites.
They're on social media.
You'll start to I mean, ifthat's especially for younger
people to follow them there.
They'll start to get a reallygood sense of who that person is
.
People to follow them there,they'll start to get a really
good sense of who that person is.
Find out, you know, that wayyou're just going to need to do
a little bit.
I'll talk to your neighbors.
If your neighbor has apolitical sign in their yard
(50:33):
that I mean, that's whatpolitical, political signs don't
vote, but they signal to yourneighbor I'm supporting Wendy
Davis.
Just ask them why are yousupporting that person for
county council?
Tell me about him.
Like, have a conversation.
We don't talk anymore.
There's a great book written byRobert Putnam called Bowling
Alone, talking about how oursocieties were so different in
the 50s and 60s, withneighborhood barbecues and
pinochle and bowling leagues.
(50:54):
And just talk to your friends,talk to your neighbors, talk to
the candidate, read theirliterature Like it's coming at
you all the time.
Follow them on Instagram,follow them on social and then,
hopefully, when you get thatbooklet, it's not as
overwhelming You'll have areally solid idea of what their
positions are and you might bejust fact checking to say like
(51:14):
okay, do I still not want tovote for the other person?
All right, yeah, I still wantto vote for this person.
Audra (51:19):
And Google is a great resource, Google.
I tell people all the time thatif I didn't have Google, I
wouldn't know how to do half thestuff I do.
I mean, I look things up everysingle day on how to figure out
how to do stuff.
Absolutely Otherwise I'd belost.
Wendy, this has been an amazinghour to spend with you.
(51:46):
It's been educational.
I feel so much more empoweredjust spending the time with you
and reading through your book.
If people wanted to find outmore about you or where they
could reach your book, wherewould they connect with you?
Wendy (51:58):
Well, first of all, thank you, audra, for the
opportunity to chat with you.
I love talking about thesethings and I learned something
from every single person that Italked to as well.
But you can learn more about meat wendydavisutahcom and the
book is available for purchaseon Amazon or channels where you
like to buy books.
(52:18):
It would mean a lot to me ifyou could support your local
independent bookseller orrequest it at your library to
support those public venues.
But those are the two bestplaces.
The Fight you Don't See rightnow.
It's available on paperback andebook.
By the time of this airing.
It should be available inaudiobook.
We could do a whole podcast onaudiobook production.
(52:38):
It's been delightful talkingwith you about themes that
matter a lot to me advancing thecauses of women in politics,
making people aware and reallyin the spirit of actually
encouraging them to be moreinvolved, not to dissuade people
by saying, if you want to runfor office, it's going to be
hard.
It's going to be hard in waysthat you never thought it was
(53:00):
going to be hard.
Going to be hard in ways thatyou never thought it was going
to be hard.
I'm going to tell you my story.
It's not going to be yours.
But maybe now you'll say like,all right, I can do that, that's
what.
I want people to walk away fromthis book thinking like, all
right, there's some reallyterrible things that happen, but
you know what, now I know moreand so I can do more.
Audra (53:19):
And I encourage everybody, not only to reach out
Wendy, read her book.
It's educational, it'sentertaining, it's wildly
entertaining, it's heartbreaking.
I read it in a night.
I couldn't put it down becauseI felt like I was sitting with
you.
I felt like I was spending theafternoon with you.
(53:41):
I felt like I was spending theafternoon with you and that was
wonderful.
I felt like I was hanging outwith a friend, so I loved that.
So, please, everybody, go andpick it up, because I promise
you you will not regret it.
Wendy, this is my favorite partof the show and if you listen
to my show before, you will knowit is because I get to shut up
and not ask you questions andyou get an intimate moment
(54:04):
directly with the audience soyou can leave them with a
lasting thought that they cantake with them throughout the
day, throughout the week, thatthey can sit with them and just
give them encouragement andwhatever they need to take with
them throughout the day.
So the mic is yours, yeah sure.
Wendy (54:22):
I want to share just one story.
That's in the last chapter ofthe book.
And I live in Utah.
I like to hike.
I'm not a fast hiker, I'mprobably the slowest Never going
to hike the tallest mountainpeaks, the steepest ascents, and
you know, sometimes I get lost.
I often get lost, but one of myfavorite things to do when I
(54:44):
hike is to stop, look around andlook how far I've come and I
can no longer see the car at thetrailhead.
I can't even see the trail amile down the road, and I think
that's so important.
No matter what journey you'reon, whether it's your political
journey, your professionaljourney, your motherhood journey
, whatever journey you're onyour chance or battle just stop
(55:08):
and do a 360 and look at how faryou've come and metaphorically
hiking those capital steps youknow, even after I had lost and
pulling open those big, heavydoors was a metaphor that I used
(55:30):
in my book.
And now I'm at a point in lifewhere I'm ready to be the person
who holds the door open forsomeone else.
I had other people open thosedoors for me and hold those open
.
So whether you're on that trailor you can be that person who
is holding the door open for theperson who comes after you.
That's really the thought thatI want to leave people with.
Audra (55:52):
That's.
That is a not only is that abeautiful sentiment, it's a
beautiful image.
So thank you, Thank you forleaving us with that, and thank
you so much for spending thishour with me.
I truly appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate you aswell, and I want and thank you
so much for spending this hourwith me.
I truly appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate you aswell, and I want to thank you
all again for listening andwe'll see you again next time.
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week we're going to have avery exciting and timely
conversation, with the politicalraces quickly heating up as it
is going to be voting seasonsoon.
My guest this week is ringsideseat expert.
My guest is Dr Wendy Davis.
(00:22):
Dr Davis has a PhD and she is aformer candidate for the Utah
House of Representatives.
She holds a PhD in politicalscience from the University of
Utah and her research interestsare the educational policy,
political socialization andstate and local government.
This is very near and dear toher heart and, like I said, she
(00:44):
had a ringside seat in her ownpolitical campaign.
She's here to share herexperience and her passion with
the political scene, to helpeducate us as we go to the
voting polls.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Wendy Wendy.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Wendy (01:04):
Wendy Wendy, thank you so much for being here and
welcome to the show, thank you.
Audra (01:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
I am very excited to be here.
I did lots of homework toprepare for you to be here
because this is a really veryimportant subject.
I don't think that preparingfor voting has ever been more
important.
I will tell you quite frankly Imean, I'm almost 53 years old
(01:31):
and before, eight years ago,nine years ago, I don't think I
ever prepared for voting.
I don't think I ever didhomework for voting, and I know
that that's shameful, but Idon't think I ever took it
seriously because I don't thinkI understood.
I didn't understand the systems, I didn't understand the
(01:52):
responsibility and I didn'tunderstand the repercussions.
And I think I'm not alone, Ithink I'm in good company.
But I did a lot of homework toprepare, to speak to you
intelligently, and you, I thinkyou wrote a book because you
(02:13):
share not only do you share someof the sentiments of that, and
you are educated in this.
You had an education of yourown, being a political candidate
, learning firsthand of how muchwe don't know.
So let's peel back the layers alittle bit and let's first
start with me and my admissions,and me speaking for a lot of
(02:40):
Americans as to why, initially,we didn't understand voting, our
responsibility of voting oreven the repercussions until
maybe eight or nine years ago.
Why is that, yeah?
Wendy (02:55):
absolutely Well.
I think that's really common.
There is a sub-sub topic inpolitical science called
political socialization, andit's really how you as a person
usually a young person come intopolitics.
How do you understand politics,how do you learn about voting,
how do you know about elections?
(03:16):
And it shouldn't surpriseanyone that most of that
socialization comes from yourfamily.
Also, it can come frominstitutions like school or
trusted adults that are aroundyou, but I think there's a lot
of.
For a lot of people, it's justnot something culturally that
they've experienced before, andfor a lot of women in particular
not just women, but a lot ofpeople the 2016 election changed
(03:41):
things for them, and you knowthe results of that election,
where Donald Trump triumphedover Hillary Clinton, were great
moments for some people andunbelievably devastating for
other people, and I have metdozens and dozens of women who
said I never really paidattention until then.
(04:02):
And then I started to payattention and in 2018, it
occurred to me you know, on thatballot it was a midterm
election and we have, you know,school board candidates and city
council and the assessor andall of these offices.
Do you even know what thatperson does?
(04:24):
And so I put out a message onmy neighborhood Facebook page.
I'm like I'm having two nightsand you're welcome to bring your
lawn chair and come to my houseand I'm going to throw up on
the screen.
We're going to look at theballot, we're going to talk
through every race, I'm going toexplain what every office does
and then you can bring yourballot and fill it out.
I will not tell you who to votefor.
I will skip the big ones, thesenatorial election, you all
know that.
(04:44):
But let's talk about what allthese offices do.
And people showed up at myhouse with their ballots and
they said no one's everexplained it to me before and I
thought that doesn't surprise me.
I think you know how do youlearn If you don't learn through
school or you learn throughyour family?
You don't know what you don'tknow.
And another thing that we knowabout political socialization we
(05:07):
know that younger voters 18 to25, I don't care how great they
think they are they vote withthe lowest voter turnout of all
the age groups.
They are sometimes the mostenraged and passionate, but it
doesn't show up why.
There's a lot of reasons whythey're still mobile.
(05:29):
They don't have permanentresidency, they don't know how a
city council, how garbagepickup, how a streetlight, how
you know the school boardraising a bond, impacts them
directly.
And so until you start to havesome of those experiences as a
taxpayer, or children are inschool or something happened to
me there are different thingsthat make us pay closer
(05:50):
attention.
So your experience is normal,it's perfectly normal, and the
great news is you're engaged ata different level now and you do
research and you're a littlebit more involved in the
political process.
Audra (06:01):
I am very involved through research, educating
myself, and, even if I didn'twant to be, my children forced
the issue Because in 2016, mykids were 16 and just about 18.
(06:22):
So my son was just about theage to vote, but he was
graduating from high school.
He really didn't care.
He's getting ready for college.
Nobody cared.
They did not care at the moment, and then their minds exploded.
So then, when it came time tothe 2020 election, they were
like, oh no, they came home withbooklets and they poured over
(06:49):
them for days and then keep inmind, this was all during COVID,
so we were all really comfytogether.
So they arranged it and theysaid on this day, we're going to
sit down at the kitchen tableand we're going to walk through
this booklet line by line byline together to make sure that
(07:10):
we all understand what is goingon.
And, first of all, I wascompletely overwhelmed and,
second of all, I was incrediblyproud and I didn't know which
one I was feeling more of at thetime.
Didn't know which one I wasfeeling more of at the time.
So I was really.
I was thrilled that this hadhappened to encourage them to
(07:32):
take this much attention.
But then it also made me feeloh my gosh.
It took this many years to makeme stand up and pay attention
and to have this level ofeducation which, like I said, is
exactly one of the reasons whywe're having this conversation
today, because by the time thisairs, it should be about July
(07:54):
and we are going to be in thethick of it.
You're going to be bombarded bypolitical ads, you're going to
probably be getting phone calls,there's going to be loads of
confusion.
You're not going to know whichend is up.
So Wendy is here to give you aringside seat as to what's going
(08:14):
on, what is the back end ofwhat happens in politics, and
how to help us navigate throughthe noise, and how to help us
navigate through the noise.
So first we're going to talk alittle bit about her story.
Now, as I mentioned to you,this is her livelihood, this is
what sets her soul on fire.
(08:35):
She's always had this heart forpolitics and she wrote an
amazing book that is the Fightyou Don't See, and I have an
excerpt, a couple of quotes thatI'm going to read to you from
her book.
And this is I'm going to readto you a quote right now which
(08:55):
is from when she was a page inthe Illinois State Senate.
Yes, correct, and you had justmet Mr Brady.
You were on the floor for theBrady bill.
Wendy (09:15):
If I, if I remember correctly, when reading this,
reading this passage, sarahBrady was there to speak before
the body advocating for theBrady bill.
Audra (09:19):
And and this was when it really set your soul on fire
and you're like I'm going to runfor office because you tell the
story, that you're like, oh,this is, this is a historical
moment, I need to mark thissomehow.
And you, you said, you grabbeda Senate calendar and you asked
him to sign it and he you knowhe was limited ability to to
(09:44):
speak and obviously he was in awheelchair, but he graciously
agreed to it.
And that's when it sparked thispassion for it.
And this is the quote from thebook that, when I read this,
this honestly, this pulled meinto your book.
And here's the quote.
It's at the time I didn't knowhow the fight would look, but
(10:07):
something about that smallinteraction with Mr Brady
inspired me, as if those fewwords and fleeting moments he
had instilled in me thedetermination of an advocate.
I knew it wouldn't be easy, butif I fought hard enough, maybe
I could make a real change inthe world.
I think many people go intopolitics feeling that same way.
(10:28):
I'm going to go into politicsand I'm going to change the
world.
I'm going to make a differencein this world.
I'm going to make a differencefor my neighbors, my community,
because they need it, and thatprobably was the same for you.
So I know that you went inDistrict 45, state of Utah, went
(10:49):
in and you're like I'm smart,I'm multi-degreed, I know what
I'm doing here.
I am, let me make a difference.
I'm going to let you take thestory from there, yeah sure.
Wendy (11:02):
Well, there was a lot of time that passed from that
19-year-old who got to meet MrBrady and for those who are
listening who don't know who MrBrady is, he was Ronald Reagan's
press secretary and during theassassination attempt, on March
30th I think it was the 30th1981, mr Brady was struck by a
(11:22):
bullet and he took a bullet tothe head and was forever changed
.
And so, you know, as a youngperson, I watched that not in
real time, obviously, ontelevision, but the news stories
stuck with me and so it wassomething very important in my
life and even though Iidentified as a Democrat, it
didn't matter.
(11:42):
He was a hero to me, didn'tmatter what party he could have
come from Mars, and that wasjust such so powerful to me.
And there's actually a picture.
There was a Senate staffer whotook a picture of us,
unbeknownst to me, and it isdear to me and I just have this
look of admiration as I'msitting down and talking to him
and it's just so precious.
(12:03):
So a lot happened between 19year old me at 2020.
So you know, there's never agreat time to run.
I felt like I needed to becredentialed.
I never felt like I was goodenough.
I had been told you need to beon city councils or you need to
be so active in your community.
If you don't have 50 volunteers, you're never going to make it.
If you don't have X amount ofmoney, you're never going to
(12:23):
make it.
And I'm like you know what?
I think I can do this, and so Ihad this job.
I traveled all the time.
I got a job that was located inSalt Lake City area, where I
live, so I didn't have to travel.
I finished my PhD, I turned mydissertation in and I'm like
okay, what's next?
Like literally, I turned thedissertation and the next week I
(12:43):
started telling people I wasgoing to run for office and I
showed up at county conventionand they're like who are you?
We don't know who you are.
I'm like, yeah, I know, Itravel, I sell software, I'm a
busy woman, but I'm here, I'mready to go.
And so I knew in my heart thisis what I want to do.
And I was ready.
I was ready to go.
(13:04):
And so I declared that I wantedto run as a Democrat against the
10-year incumbent in mydistrict.
I'd done my research.
I knew the district wasflippable.
I had a PhD in politicalscience, I know how to do
statistical analysis.
I'd watched the trends overthree elections.
I saw it turning more and moretoward the center and I saw
(13:24):
candidates chipping away at thatmargin every single time and I
thought, if I'm committed and Ican run a solid campaign, I
think I might have a chanceagainst this guy.
And so that's what I set mysights on.
And then COVID hit and itdisrupted like there's so much
that was disruptive four yearsago in 2020.
(13:47):
And can you imagine trying torun your first campaign I have
no idea what I'm doing anyway.
Fundraising stops.
There's no door knocking.
I don't really like we don'tknow if the world's going to
stop rotating on its axis andfor how long.
And I'm like all right, I'mgoing to do it.
And so did you know, ran thiscampaign and my only goal was to
not lose in a landslide and westarted picking up momentum and
(14:12):
suddenly people were recognizingme and had heard about me, and
people I didn't even know werelike we're voting for you.
I'm like, really, I was likeyou know me.
And then, and it was reallysilly silly because I'm sending
out emails, I'm sending outtexts, I have a social media
presence, I'm sending outmailers.
I'm knocking on doors.
Of course, people are eventuallygoing to know who I am, and so,
(14:33):
yeah, so the book is about.
It's my life story, but it istold through this lens of what
happened during my campaignrunning as a Democrat in the
state of Utah against a verypopular incumbent during COVID
and facing challenges that Inever dreamed I would face
(14:54):
Challenges within my own party,challenges with power structures
, people who control the money,people who control the politics,
people who control religion youknow all of these power
structures and I'm like I got towrite about this because nobody
talks about this Nobody.
No candidates write booksbecause they either win and
(15:18):
they're busy or they lose andthey fly away into the ether and
never to be heard about again.
But the things that happened Iknew were important enough and
generalizable enough that mystory would be relatable enough
that people would see themselvesin it.
Right, and I'm like there arenot enough firsthand political
(15:39):
narratives written by averagepeople written by average people
.
So that's why I sat on it for acouple of years.
I'm like I really feelcompelled that I need to tell
what happened, and that's wherewe are.
Audra (15:57):
Well, we're going to continue to go through your book
and we're going to educate.
Like I said, the running themeis to educate the audience on
how the political system works,but also to help the audience
see themselves in you.
I'm going to read another quotefrom your book because, as I
had mentioned to you before wegot on the air, some of these
(16:18):
quotes I underwrote, Ihighlighted because they gutted
me, because they rang true forme and they made me sit with it
for a minute and go oh, I needto work on this.
So I'm going to read this andhopefully not cry through it.
So are you ready, wendy?
(16:38):
I am Okay.
Like so many women, I doubted mycredentials no-transcript
(17:10):
thought and maybe I would bequalified to be a candidate.
At the center of this mindsetwas the idea that I had to earn
it.
Public office wasn't somethingyou stumbled into.
You showed your commitment,invested time and eventually
earned the honor of serving yourconstituents.
(17:34):
Over the years, I realized thatthis mindset is so.
Female Women are conditioned tobelieve that we must be
qualified, we need to pay ourdues and put in the work and
maybe, if we work hard enough,we can have our shot.
Men rarely think this way.
This gutted me, jumped off thepage, I highlighted it and sat
(17:59):
with it for a moment and cried alittle Because it was too true.
And this was you thinking aboutit in a political sense.
I thought about it in myprofessional sense and actually
this came.
This quote came ringing to myfront of my cortex today, an
(18:26):
hour ago, in a conversation thatI had, and I thought I got to
fix this.
I've been conditioned.
I got to fix this.
I cannot exist like thisanymore.
And if this is how I've beenconditioned and this is how I
walk through the world, this isalso how I'm voting.
Wendy (18:48):
It's a lot, it really is a lot, and it took me to be a
woman of a certain age torealize what we've all been
conditioned to believe.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with this campaign, but
you should definitely look itup.
There's a campaign that Matteland Barbie is running right now
(19:08):
and it's just a series of littlegirls and I mean it gives me
chills just to think about it inthe worst possible way by the
age of five, more people areGoogling is my son special?
But they're not asking abouttheir daughters by the age of
(19:30):
seven.
They're pushing me toward thesetypes of books and not these
types of books, and you can'tblame things on society in
general, but there's a certainamount of conditioning that
happens.
But I think for us as women youknow, we, we at least.
I can't speak for all women, Ican only speak for myself.
(19:51):
I was under this impressionthat, like all right, I've got
to work, work toward this in acertain direction, and that was
my true ambition was to be thefirst woman governor of Illinois
and it was very intentional toget that job as a 19 year old.
The next year I got the job inthe bureaucracy.
I don't write about that in thebook.
And I was hustling a job.
(20:12):
I had a student work, study job, and I'm asking everybody who
walks through the door do youknow anyone in Springfield,
illinois, that might give me ajob?
I was like I do, actually, andso I called them.
He gave me a list of managersand this is before the internet
right In the late eighties and Icalled the least intimidating
person name on the list.
(20:32):
It was a person named Val.
I didn't know.
Val was a man.
Val answered the phone and he'slike, sure, come down to
Springfield for an interview.
So I take all the little moneyI have and put gas in my car and
I drive down there.
And I researched everything Icould about the Department of
Natural Energy and Resources andhe asked me all kinds of
(20:53):
questions and he says I have onequestion for you what drives
you?
You are 20 years old, you puton a business suit, came down
from Shorey Illinois to sit inmy office.
What drives you?
And I said it's very simple.
I don't want to live in povertylike my family has.
(21:13):
I want a better life and Ithink I'm smart enough to do it
and I want to break that cycle.
And he's like you've got a job.
I mean, what 20 year old doesthat?
And I mean I was much braverthan I would have been, but it
was.
It was that whole.
And whether you know, and I'vebeen a woman in tech my whole
(21:34):
career too and and alwaysconditioned I've worked for
amazing employers.
So I've never felt treated thisway by any of my employers.
But I know that women in techstruggle to be seen as engineers
and developers, right, so yeah.
But I don't know one man who'slike.
(21:54):
I wonder if I'm qualified torun for the state legislature.
Do I have the right degree?
Did I build my pedigreecorrectly?
Do I have that?
I just don't know those people.
Maybe men think that way, butI'll tell you, I've met over 100
female candidates and, withencouragement, they will run
(22:17):
when asked directly.
When someone says you can dothis, I believe in you.
Sometimes that's all it takes,and I don't know what that says
about our culture and oursociety, but I think that you, I
other women, we can be the onesthat tap them on the shoulders
that you got this.
I believe in you.
You don't need anything elsebut to be you.
(22:37):
That's all you need.
Audra (22:40):
Well, let's fast forward a little bit to you being in
the campaign.
You're in the thick of thiscampaign.
You have raised your hand,you're like I'm running, I'm
doing it, and the moment you getinto the thick of it, you start
challenging the systems.
In the book you start writingabout how you are immediately
(23:07):
challenging their data.
You're talking about and youjust mentioned you're a woman in
tech and whether you areinstalling the tech or not, if
you are a tech executive, if youare out there selling the tech,
if you are an account executivefor the tech, you need to at
(23:27):
least know how it works.
So you have to have some levelof knowledge of how data works.
So in your book, you are sayingthat they're presenting data to
you, calculations in regards tohow they're trying to support
(23:47):
certain races and certaincandidates, and you're pushing
on them and saying how'd youcome up with these calculations?
And they're saying, well, wejust did.
And you keep pushing on themand saying, well, how?
And they're like well, we justdid.
And you said something that inyour book that started to really
(24:10):
startle me and you said thatthis is how the races are run
and how they're determined.
Is that they're run behindclosed doors?
Tell us a little bit about that.
What do you mean?
That they're run behind closeddoors?
Wendy (24:27):
yeah, I think there's.
You know, I feel like I was abit of a political anomaly.
I wasn't recruited, I wasn'tvetted.
I'm like I'm gonna do this andI'm gonna put my name on the
ballot.
There's a lot of other timeswhen there's a lot of strategic
thought that goes into who isthe right candidate.
(24:48):
Is this district one that isflippable?
Who is the incumbent?
Who could we get to run againstthem?
What is the probability of justa random Democrat being in the
race?
All things being equal, what istheir probability?
What if we get a qualifiedDemocrat and running that?
So there's a lot of strategythat happens, more so than I
(25:08):
think most people would think.
The average public, I don'tthink, realizes that.
They probably think that forbig Senate candidates or
presidential candidates orsomething, but I think even at
local races there's a lot ofstrategy that happens, and the
(25:32):
scene that you described, thatwas a power move, meaning people
who have the information andwho want to shield that
information and protect it havepower over you.
So I was constantly trying touse my credentials and my
intellect and my knowledge ofstatistical data and political
data specifically to say like Iknow enough how to poke holes in
this.
I'm asking you to validate thisfor me, and the refusal to do
(25:55):
that was continuing to havepower over me.
Right, and you know, politicalinstitutions parties being a
very big political institutionthat all of us are familiar with
have a tremendous amount ofpower.
Parties can decide who gets ona ballot.
Parties can keep people off ofthe ballot to meet their own
needs, and those are the backdoor deals that I don't think
(26:19):
people realize.
Even somebody sometimes evenmaking it to the ballot is very
interesting.
And in Utah we have a caucussystem which means that
individuals in their housedistrict a very small number of
people in Utah are really makingthe decisions because they're
the ones that show up.
We've got a very by the timethis airs.
(26:42):
It should have been decided inJune.
We'll have a primary.
There's like seven Senatecandidates on the Republican
side on the ballot and theamount of money going into those
campaigns strategic thought.
That's happening.
I just don't think people knowthat that is part of it.
Audra (27:04):
I'm going to share just a little bit more bad news about
this system before we actuallystart talking about some good
news, because there are thingsthat we can do about it, that we
have to do about it, that isour responsibility to do about
it, because we can't, we cannot,continue to to allow the system
to drag us, because the realityis, this is our system, and I
(27:30):
think that we've, throughconfusion, through, like you
said in the beginning, throughsocial adoption or not, it's
gotten a little out of control,but we have absolutely have the
power to get it back in control,gotten a little out of control,
but we have absolutely have thepower to get it back in control
.
I'll share one more bit of badnews, because it jumped off the
page at me and I was like, oh mygosh, I have I have to mention
(27:52):
this because this blows my mindwhen you were sitting across the
table from the Democraticleader of the Utah House.
You're having breakfast withhim and he literally says to you
that he, that he can't publiclyendorse you, can't endorse you
because your competitor is agood friend of mine.
(28:14):
I know he's a Republican, buthe's a good guy and a friend.
What?
The Democratic House, theDemocratic House, your party
that you are running under.
He can't endorse you becausethe other party is he's a good
dude and he's my friend and Ican't.
I can't hurt his feelings, Ican't hurt my friend's feelings
(28:38):
hurt his feelings.
Wendy (28:39):
Yeah, that was an eye opener.
And I mean we fought about thatthroughout my campaign.
He and I did and I'm likelisten, I'm an Illinois Democrat
.
He's like what does that mean?
I'm like it means that leadersput their arms around their
candidates and say this is myperson, I'm supporting them, and
say to their friends you know,this is my responsibility, right
, as a party leader, this iswhat I do.
It is not personal, it ispolitics.
(29:00):
And now that person supportedme in other ways but did not
make a public donation, did notmake a public endorsement for
the integrity of the existingrelationship that he had with
that person.
I have told that story dozens oftimes.
I struggled whether I shouldput that story in the book or
(29:21):
not, because I do name thatperson by name.
They are a public figure.
They were a public figure and Iread that chapter out loud to a
trusted friend as I was doingsome editing and reviewing, and
that person audibly gasped andsaid are you sure you want to
say that?
I said it's true.
(29:41):
I'm like there are literallydozens of people who have heard
me say that and that is thefight you don't see.
You never expect as a Democratthat the party leader will say,
yeah, I just can't endorse you,they couldn't endorse me.
(30:03):
One of my biggest challengeswas that my competitor was very
well liked, but that one, thatone stung and I left it in the
book and I said to this person Isaid I've sat with this for
months and and I'm verycomfortable with this and if
somebody has a different accountthen they should write their
story.
But but that's what happened.
Audra (30:19):
So the fight that you don't see is not just the
political fight that you don'tknow that's happening, that you
don't see coming, but you alsohave an internal fight because
you are a woman, so you havethis bias that's going through
your head, that you've beenprogrammed to, that you don't
even realize is happening, butit's happening to many of us.
(30:42):
Realize is happening, but it'shappening to many of us.
I don't realize things arehappening until I read it on a
page that someone else isexperiencing and then I go oh my
God, that's true for me too.
So that fight is going.
And then you're fighting thispolitical system that you don't
know exists.
So this is the fight that youdon't see but is clearly
happening all the time.
(31:03):
It is the invisible fightthat's happening all around us,
every single day.
Wendy (31:09):
It absolutely is.
And one thing, audra, I wouldhope that anyone who shows up to
your door any of the listenershere you know as a political
candidate, even if you don'tagree with them, just be kind.
They cared enough to put ontheir tennis shoes and their
campaign t-shirt and knock onyour door in the middle of
sweaty August and Septemberbecause they're asking for your
(31:32):
vote, you know, and justremember that there's battles
that these people are fightingthat you'll never know about.
And, yeah, you might not agreewith their politics, but you can
respect them enough for justshowing up at your door.
And I, you might not agree withtheir politics, but you can
respect them enough for justshowing up at your door.
And I mean, I, thankfully I hadpeople who were kind to me and
I'll never forget there was anelderly woman and you can get a
(31:53):
really good vibe for someone atthe door pretty quickly and and
I just got the sense she didn'twant to talk and and I handed
her the flyer and I walked awayand she said I need to tell you
something.
She said I'm going to vote foryou because you showed up at my
door and that matters to me andI'm like you know what?
I never felt more like acandidate than when I was
(32:14):
knocking doors and talking topeople, and that was almost like
my therapy.
Every day I'm like I'm puttingon my shoes, I'm putting on my
t-shirt.
I'm going to get this cleansingeffect, because those are the
people that matter, these fightsthat I'm continually fighting
behind the scenes.
I'm actually fighting them forthese people.
So I just needed to be groundedand go out and do that every
(32:36):
day.
But there's a million fights.
You have people in your familywho say the weirdest things to
you.
Someone told me before Istarted a campaign, the biggest
enemy will come from within.
It won't be external.
And I'm like what?
I didn't believe it.
And then like the internalparty leader who should have
(32:57):
supported me you know afather-in-law who wouldn't
support me because I'm aDemocrat and like the people
closest to you who have theability to actually hurt you the
most Random strangers tellingyou on the internet you're fat
and ugly doesn't matter, theydon't matter, they don't matter.
But it's the internal ones thatare hurting the most.
(33:18):
That's the fight you don't see.
Audra (33:20):
Well, now that I know a little bit more, if a political
candidate shows up at my door Iwill listen.
I don't think I've ever had oneshow up, but now, if they do, I
absolutely will take the fiveminutes to listen about the
(33:41):
fight that goes on on the otherside of the political ads and
the phone calls and the textsand whatnot, other than the
annoyance that I feel on theother end because there's
because you get bombarded andyour mailbox gets stuffed, and
but I had no clue, I had no idea.
So we've talked about all thebad news and I think we, I think
(34:23):
we're all well aware.
I think, or we've been, we'vebeen suspect.
But how do we even out theplaying field?
I know that there is one,because there can't all be bad
news.
Our system is built for it tobe more of a fair fight.
So how do we make it more of afair fight?
Wendy (34:42):
So how do we make it more of a fair fight?
You know, honestly, that's oneof the reasons I wrote the book
is to try and demystify whatit's like to run for office for
people, and I think and in doingso you start to remove some of
the power from the powerstructures.
If I tell you this is whathappens in the political party
(35:03):
system, here's what you expect.
I advised a candidate a coupleof weeks ago who was like do I
need to do all this stuff?
I'm like let me explain thedifference to you between
political spectacle and theother parts.
You have to play the spectaclegame for these and this and this
reasons.
And as soon as I explained itto you, I said okay, I get it,
I'll do that.
And come May, you shift yourattention to your voters because
that's all that matters.
(35:24):
So, like trying to demystify it,how do we fix it?
We just get more peopleinvolved.
We also don't want to createsystems where people are
dissuaded from running and it'sreally hard out there.
I don't care what party you'refrom, it is hard out there.
I think there's a lot ofmisogyny in our culture right
now.
It's surfaced in like crazy,ridiculous ways and we need to
(35:47):
be supportive of women who arerunning for office of all
parties and make sure that we'reencouraging that and not making
these barriers to entry intothis political system so hard
that only the elite few can doit.
I think that's one of thethings we need to vote vote like
our lives depended on it,because they do.
(36:08):
Whether it's for state lawmakerswho are determining state house
boundaries and making surehouse districts aren't
gerrymandered, or reproductiverights, which are being punted
to the states, or attacks onfree thought and libraries and
in higher education, there arethings we can do and I have a
lot of hope.
I hope that you found that atthe end of the book I try to end
(36:30):
on a very hopeful note.
Despite, like, some reallycruddy things that happen.
I have to have hope and I haveto keep on moving.
As soon as I let the bastardsbeat me, they've won, and I'm
too much of a fighter to letthem win.
So I, you just can't letyourself get knocked down.
But I think a lot of people inpolitics, especially at the
(36:52):
national level, they just haveto like just, they have to close
out all the noise becausethere's so much of it and just
you know, become almost almostcharacters in some way, and just
a version of themselves thatcan move forward and do this.
Audra (37:09):
Do you believe the rhetoric that all people in
politics are at the top are bad,or are there good people at the
top?
Are there really good people atthe top of the food chain that
are good?
Wendy (37:25):
Yeah, I absolutely believe that there are really
great people in politics.
Even and it's no secret I am nofan of the former president,
donald Trump I even believe inhis administration there are
really great people trying to dogood things and trying to keep
him on track, and it's a tributeto your leadership.
The kind of people that yousurround yourself with.
(37:46):
Were all of them good?
Absolutely not.
I do believe that there weresome good people.
Yes, I believe in Congress andthe United States Senate and the
presidency that there arefantastic people doing great
things.
I know people who work in theBiden administration.
I am friendly with my formercongressman as much.
I write in the book how Ididn't vote for Mitt Romney
(38:06):
twice.
It means that you know like,the presidency is held by
(38:28):
Democrats and the House and theSenate are held by Democrats,
but we're still able to getthings done with Republicans,
like or the House is controlledby one party and the Senate is
controlled by another, but we'restill.
You know, one is notobstructing the other.
So I absolutely see greatthings in individuals.
Are there outliers who make usthink that it's not great?
(38:51):
Absolutely, but it's just noise.
There are 435 members ofCongress and 100 senators and
maybe a couple of detractorsthat are just not awesome.
I really genuinely think thevast majority of them are pretty
darn good people.
Audra (39:11):
So what about this idea of a third party candidate?
So there's been some talk of it.
I mean there's been talk aboutit for a long time, I mean
there's.
The reality is is that thereare multiple pardon me, there
are multiple parties in thiscountry.
They just have not been takenseriously as political
(39:31):
candidates.
There have been many that havebeen on the ballots for
presidency but again, have notbeen taken seriously, only have
been taken as detractors, untilthis year.
This year there is oneindividual that is making some
(39:55):
significant noise and people arestarting to pay attention and
say if anybody can make a run asa third party for the
presidency, it's this one and itis Robert F Kennedy Jr.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because many people right noware thinking we need a third
option.
Wendy (40:16):
I definitely think we need multiple options, for sure,
and I understand why thecurrent slate is undesirable to
some people.
I'm going to roll it back alittle bit in history.
And the first year, the secondtime I was able to vote for
president was 1992.
And that is the year thatGeorge HW Bush ran for a second
(40:37):
term.
Bill Clinton was a first termcandidate for presidency on the
ballot and H Ross Perot wasrunning as a third party
candidate.
Audra (40:47):
I remember this.
Wendy (40:48):
I do remember this.
It was like the whole MTV rockthe vote try and get more young
people to vote and all of my GenX friends were like down with
the establishment.
I'm voting for Perot.
And do you remember what youmay or may not remember?
But he wanted to simplify thetax form right, like taxes
should be across the board, xpercent for all people.
(41:08):
It should be one flat tax.
Let's do it Like one idea,right?
I don't think that he got oneelectoral college vote and he
got a lot of votes and he wasmaking quite a go of it.
I'm going to fast forward to2016, something more modern and
(41:29):
Evan McMullin.
So, first of all, there'salways a lot of people in the
ballot for president, but EvanMcMullin, former CIA with Utah
ties, decided to run forpresident in 2016.
Because morally, he had been aRepublican and he's like I just
cannot with Donald Trump, I justcan't.
And so he ran and made somegreat strides in some of the
(41:55):
intermountain states Utah,arizona, california.
He came in third in Utah and hehad the most following in Utah.
Evan McMullin also ran as anindependent for the United
States Senate in 2022 and didnot win against Mike Lee.
Here's what we know as politicalscientists.
It is extremely challenging towin as a third-party candidate.
(42:18):
And let me tell you why thatparty ID matters.
It matters in ways that socialscientists study how much party
ID matters.
It matters in ways that socialscientists study how much party
ID matters.
You might not even beaffiliated as a mainstream party
participant I am not signed upfor either.
(42:46):
They love saying that, but intruth they might not be.
But they often lean one way orthe other.
They love to declare theirindependence, but they still
tend to vote a certain way Atthe end of the day.
When it comes down to looking atcandidates on the ballot, a lot
of people use that party ID asa signal.
I vote only for Democrats, Idon't vote for Republicans or
only vote for Republicans, right, and so that party ID matters.
(43:09):
I'll vote for anybody, but thisperson.
I cannot explain to you howimportant that party ID is.
Still, do I think RFK Jr willget some votes?
Yeah, will it be enough to makeany difference?
Absolutely not.
But what he's signaling andhe's the crazy Kennedy cousin
that nobody wants anything tomake any difference?
Absolutely not.
But what he's signaling, andhe's the crazy Kennedy cousin
that nobody wants anything to dowith.
By the way, I mean long legacyof Democrats.
(43:32):
His uncle was president.
His father was horrificallyassassinated as he was running
for president in 1968.
So long line of strong Kennedysand they're like we don't want
anything to do with you.
But what his run is symbolizingis that we are clamoring for
something different, and it'sreally.
How do we figure out how tomake space in this entrenched,
(43:57):
encumbered, sometimes nastypolitical system of a two-party
system?
How can somebody break through?
That is a monumental shift.
So we get detractors.
I wouldn't even call themdetractors, but we get people
that are trying.
The Green Party or Ralph Naderran for years, or Harry Brown
(44:19):
ran as a libertarian.
I think he's the new thing.
He might get some votes.
There'll be protest votes,there'll be
anti-disestablishment votes, butit won't be anything that will
make a difference in any state.
Audra (44:37):
I think that that's both disturbing, but also people
should pay attention becausethere are entire generations.
You and I are both Gen X and Ican't relate to these two old
dudes on the ballot.
I don't have anything in commonwith these two old dudes.
(44:58):
You don't have anything incommon with these two old dudes.
I would love a third option.
I know you would love a thirdoption.
I know you would love a thirdoption.
But the generations below us,these millennials and these Gen
Zs and these Gen Zs that arejust coming up, and some of them
this is their very firstelection to vote in they
certainly don't have anything.
They don't have anything incommon with these two old dudes.
(45:19):
They're like.
These two guys are so out oftouch.
They are like our greatgrandfather's age.
What did they know?
Do they even know how to usetechnology?
Do they know how to TikTok orwhatever it is?
They need somebody to relate tothem.
I mean, and let's face it, theboomer generation is fading out.
(45:41):
Our generation is not very big,and I mean and we?
But we are rebellious, we liketo do our own thing, our own way
.
But these millennials and theseGen Zs are a big, big, loud
voice because we taught them tobe.
We taught them to beindividuals and loud and stand
(46:04):
their ground and be proud ofbeing unique and being heard.
We raised them to be that way.
If we don't hear them, they'regoing to rebel.
Wendy (46:22):
I hope they do.
I hope that they rise up andwant to be involved.
I think the systems are seen ingeneral as politics are for old
people.
I really do.
I have four stepchildren all intheir 20.
That about kills me.
They don't vote because theydon't think it matters If
(46:43):
they're not voting.
If these people aren't voting,they're definitely not going to
run for office.
In my school district there'san 18-year-old new high school
graduate who's running forschool board and I am his
biggest fan.
Audra (46:57):
Good for you.
Yeah, good for you.
Wendy (47:01):
I mean, I hope he gets it, I hope he gets it, I'm
hoping he gets it.
And so, yeah, there's anenthusiasm gap.
I've heard it called anenthusiasm gap for politics.
It's easy to get this crowdincensed.
Our attention spans are shorter.
(47:23):
We consume bits and bytes ofinformation.
We don't like to go in depth.
How do we appeal to that groupof people?
How do we appeal to them enoughto say I need you to get
civically engaged, right?
But I understand, I completelyunderstand the sentiment that a
septuagenarian and octogenarianand the top of the ticket, we,
(47:44):
we, we got to do differently.
Audra (48:13):
The power to have our voices heard.
Wendy (48:15):
And it does matter, and I know that we've heard a lot
that it doesn't matter becauseof the popular vote and the
Electoral College and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know what A lot of that isnoise and fear mongering.
I lost by seven, eight votes.
9,671 people voted for me.
Had two more people in everyone of my precincts voted, I
would have won when you break itdown that way.
Had two more of my neighborsvoted for me here, here, here,
here.
Like your vote does matter.
(48:35):
My friend, suzanne Harrison,lost her first election in 2016
by three votes, three, countthem three.
So, yeah, we can buy into thatnational politics.
So at the presidential level,the calculus is different, the
math is different, the way thatit's done is different, the
system's different, but yourvote matters at every other
(48:56):
level.
It matters at every level.
But, yeah, we've just hit.
We just need people tounderstand that and believe that
.
And there's nothing moredevastating than coming so close
and like, oh, 78 votes,goodness me Right.
And I had people on the streetsay, literally random people say
, oh well, I didn't knock doorsfor you because I thought you
(49:17):
had this in the bag.
I'm like I never thought I hadit in the bag.
How did you think that?
I'm like, I never thought I hadit in the bag.
How did you think that?
So yeah, every vote matters,every vote counts, and there's
so much more on your balancethan just candidates.
They're major issues and, and,symbolically, the candidates
that you're voting for are goingto enact the measures that
(49:39):
matter to you, right?
And so, when you think about itthat way, the stakes are super
high.
Audra (49:47):
How do they educate themselves without becoming
overwhelmed?
I feel it every single timethat paper booklet arrives in
the mail.
My chest tightens and I go, ohmy gosh, I have to read this
whole thing.
How do we break it down so wedon't feel overwhelmed when that
thing comes in the mail and wecan educate ourselves, so we can
(50:07):
know that we are votingappropriately and aren't just
checking boxes?
How do we do it?
Wendy (50:13):
Yeah, I mean most candidates have websites.
They're on social media.
You'll start to I mean, ifthat's especially for younger
people to follow them there.
They'll start to get a reallygood sense of who that person is
.
People to follow them there,they'll start to get a really
good sense of who that person is.
Find out, you know, that wayyou're just going to need to do
a little bit.
I'll talk to your neighbors.
If your neighbor has apolitical sign in their yard
(50:33):
that I mean, that's whatpolitical, political signs don't
vote, but they signal to yourneighbor I'm supporting Wendy
Davis.
Just ask them why are yousupporting that person for
county council?
Tell me about him.
Like, have a conversation.
We don't talk anymore.
There's a great book written byRobert Putnam called Bowling
Alone, talking about how oursocieties were so different in
the 50s and 60s, withneighborhood barbecues and
pinochle and bowling leagues.
(50:54):
And just talk to your friends,talk to your neighbors, talk to
the candidate, read theirliterature Like it's coming at
you all the time.
Follow them on Instagram,follow them on social and then,
hopefully, when you get thatbooklet, it's not as
overwhelming You'll have areally solid idea of what their
positions are and you might bejust fact checking to say like
(51:14):
okay, do I still not want tovote for the other person?
All right, yeah, I still wantto vote for this person.
Audra (51:19):
And Google is a great resource, Google.
I tell people all the time thatif I didn't have Google, I
wouldn't know how to do half thestuff I do.
I mean, I look things up everysingle day on how to figure out
how to do stuff.
Absolutely Otherwise I'd belost.
Wendy, this has been an amazinghour to spend with you.
(51:46):
It's been educational.
I feel so much more empoweredjust spending the time with you
and reading through your book.
If people wanted to find outmore about you or where they
could reach your book, wherewould they connect with you?
Wendy (51:58):
Well, first of all, thank you, audra, for the
opportunity to chat with you.
I love talking about thesethings and I learned something
from every single person that Italked to as well.
But you can learn more about meat wendydavisutahcom and the
book is available for purchaseon Amazon or channels where you
like to buy books.
(52:18):
It would mean a lot to me ifyou could support your local
independent bookseller orrequest it at your library to
support those public venues.
But those are the two bestplaces.
The Fight you Don't See rightnow.
It's available on paperback andebook.
By the time of this airing.
It should be available inaudiobook.
We could do a whole podcast onaudiobook production.
(52:38):
It's been delightful talkingwith you about themes that
matter a lot to me advancing thecauses of women in politics,
making people aware and reallyin the spirit of actually
encouraging them to be moreinvolved, not to dissuade people
by saying, if you want to runfor office, it's going to be
hard.
It's going to be hard in waysthat you never thought it was
(53:00):
going to be hard.
Going to be hard in ways thatyou never thought it was going
to be hard.
I'm going to tell you my story.
It's not going to be yours.
But maybe now you'll say like,all right, I can do that, that's
what.
I want people to walk away fromthis book thinking like, all
right, there's some reallyterrible things that happen, but
you know what, now I know moreand so I can do more.
Audra (53:19):
And I encourage everybody, not only to reach out
Wendy, read her book.
It's educational, it'sentertaining, it's wildly
entertaining, it's heartbreaking.
I read it in a night.
I couldn't put it down becauseI felt like I was sitting with
you.
I felt like I was spending theafternoon with you.
(53:41):
I felt like I was spending theafternoon with you and that was
wonderful.
I felt like I was hanging outwith a friend, so I loved that.
So, please, everybody, go andpick it up, because I promise
you you will not regret it.
Wendy, this is my favorite partof the show and if you listen
to my show before, you will knowit is because I get to shut up
and not ask you questions andyou get an intimate moment
(54:04):
directly with the audience soyou can leave them with a
lasting thought that they cantake with them throughout the
day, throughout the week, thatthey can sit with them and just
give them encouragement andwhatever they need to take with
them throughout the day.
So the mic is yours, yeah sure.
Wendy (54:22):
I want to share just one story.
That's in the last chapter ofthe book.
And I live in Utah.
I like to hike.
I'm not a fast hiker, I'mprobably the slowest Never going
to hike the tallest mountainpeaks, the steepest ascents, and
you know, sometimes I get lost.
I often get lost, but one of myfavorite things to do when I
(54:44):
hike is to stop, look around andlook how far I've come and I
can no longer see the car at thetrailhead.
I can't even see the trail amile down the road, and I think
that's so important.
No matter what journey you'reon, whether it's your political
journey, your professionaljourney, your motherhood journey
, whatever journey you're onyour chance or battle just stop
(55:08):
and do a 360 and look at how faryou've come and metaphorically
hiking those capital steps youknow, even after I had lost and
pulling open those big, heavydoors was a metaphor that I used
(55:30):
in my book.
And now I'm at a point in lifewhere I'm ready to be the person
who holds the door open forsomeone else.
I had other people open thosedoors for me and hold those open
.
So whether you're on that trailor you can be that person who
is holding the door open for theperson who comes after you.
That's really the thought thatI want to leave people with.
Audra (55:52):
That's.
That is a not only is that abeautiful sentiment, it's a
beautiful image.
So thank you, Thank you forleaving us with that, and thank
you so much for spending thishour with me.
I truly appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate you aswell, and I want and thank you
so much for spending this hourwith me.
I truly appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate you aswell, and I want to thank you
all again for listening andwe'll see you again next time.
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