What happens when your identity is stripped away by a visa system designed to make you dependent? This is the reality for hundreds of thousands of immigrant women who arrive in America as accomplished professionals only to discover they're legally prohibited from working.
Varuni Sinha, author of the groundbreaking memoir "Golden Handcuffs and Immigrants' Pursuit of Happiness," takes us on her harrowing journey from successful advertising executive and academic in India to a woman battling depression and alcoholism in New York City. As the first South Asian woman to write openly about the H4 visa experience, she exposes how immigration laws have silently devastated careers and mental health since 1990.
Her transformation began on the streets of New York, walking her dog through neighborhoods where strangers would inexplicably share their deepest secrets. These encounters—which she documented as "strangers on the street"—became her first step toward healing. The profound moment came when several men risked their lives to save her runaway dog from traffic, prompting her to reassess everything she'd been through as an immigrant.
Drawing inspiration from Richard Phillips, who maintained his humanity during 46 years of wrongful imprisonment by creating watercolor paintings, Varuni channeled her pain into creativity. Despite facing pregnancy loss and her mother-in-law's terminal illness during COVID, she completed her manuscript—a testament to resilience that readers from all backgrounds have found deeply relatable.
Varuni's message transcends the immigrant experience: we all have our own "golden handcuffs," situations that feel imprisoning but contain the seeds of our transformation. "We all fall down," she reminds us, "only to learn how to build ourselves back again, brick by brick." Her story isn't just about survival—it's about emerging from darkness with a more beautiful understanding of what it means to be human.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Audra (00:00):
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week I have an incrediblybrave and bold woman with me
today.
Today, my guest is VeroniqueSinha, and she is a New York
City-based writer and multimediaproducer.
She has written for the Postand Courier Time Out New York
(00:23):
and created 360-degree campaignsfor global brands such as
Yamaha and Panasonic.
She just recently released herbook entitled Golden Handcuffs
and Immigrants' Pursuit ofHappiness, just this June.
It is her story.
It is her story of change andheartbreak, triumph and despair,
(00:46):
but ultimately it is hermessage of hope to all of you.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Varuni
Varuni.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Varuni (01:00):
Thank you, Audra.
I'm so happy to be here today.
Audra (01:04):
I'm very excited to have you with me today.
You have such a remarkablestory not one that I have ever
heard, at least not told fromyour point of view be heard more
(01:31):
often, because it's not justunique, but it's one that is
universal and easily understood.
As I said in your intro, it isall these feelings of the human
condition, and you had them allin a very short period of time.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour remarkable story.
Varuni (01:54):
So I would like to say that this is the first time a
South Asian woman has written amemoir talking about something
that South Asian women haveendured since 1990 in America,
and they have been too scared totalk about it.
(02:16):
Because as immigrants you tendto question what you can say,
what you can't say and how youcome across to the external
world.
What you can say, what youcan't say, and how you come
across to the external world.
Because in just the process ofbecoming the so-called other in
another country, you do loseyour voice sometimes.
(02:40):
My story is a story of womenwho came to this country.
It's a beautiful country, trustme.
Very I have had an experiencewhich I can only describe as a
spiritual journey, so to say,because I came from a very um,
entitled background.
I am the so-called elite inindia, because I do belong to
the traditional upper caste, andwhen I came to america I became
(03:02):
the margins.
I taught these things, I taughtabout race and politics through
literature when I was anacademic in India, but I lived
that experience of what it'slike to be on the margins when I
came to America to understandonly one thing that many women
(03:23):
like me who had come before tothis country, even though they
were legal immigrants, they didnot, on the spousal visa that
they came on, have the legalright to work.
Many of these women, they wereas talented, as skilled and
educated as the men that theymarried, and it's not like
(03:47):
anyone was trying to fool them.
It's just that they were notaware of all the nitty-gritties
of the law.
Even their husbands, in somecases early on, did not know or
understand, because they're alsogoing into the unknown, so to
say, to pursue their career.
The other reason why thesewomen did not speak up or write
(04:09):
about it as much was because inSouth Asian milieu, you're
supposed to be extremelysupportive to your husband, to
your children.
You're supposed to be verysupportive, even as a sister, to
your husband, to your children.
You're supposed to be verysupportive even as a sister.
So from a very young age youare tutored in so many ways to
(04:30):
be the kind, silent, sacrificingentity which is then celebrated
in our culture as that.
Look at this beautiful woman.
Because she lost all her voice,because she had no needs right.
So when these women, they camehere and they realized that,
even though they themselves weredoctors or they themselves were
(04:51):
journalists or writers orartists or anything.
All they could do when theycame here was just stay on the
spousal visa as a wife and justtake care of wifely duties,
which, if you think about it inthe 21st century, it just
doesn't make sense to just bethe mother without anything else
to do, especially if thatdecision is forced upon you, if
(05:14):
you don't have a choice.
So when they came in 1990, theywere not even allowed to have
an independent social securitynumber.
They were not allowed to,without their husband's
permission, be allowed to open abank account or, without their
husband's permission, even get adriver's license.
(05:34):
That, in its very framework, isvery problematic.
I should point out, however,that in 2015, which was two
years after I came to america Icame in 2013 there was a rule, a
change in the in the law whichwas brought about which allowed
some of these spouses not theentire crew, and this group is
(05:56):
at least half a million women,if not more some of these women,
a small portion if theirhusbands had fulfilled certain
steps in the green cardapplication process, then they
would have what is called theemployment card, but because for
so many years, they hadcompletely lost on their careers
(06:19):
.
Right, so if you're sitting athome for 10 years or 15 years,
or if you're constantly you knowtold that, hey, sitting at home
for 10 years or 15 years, or ifyou're constantly told that,
hey, sit at home and take careof the kids or have kids because
you have no other option, youjust become like a walking
talking corpse.
In that situation, you lose yourability to even find a job,
even if you were in your owncountry.
(06:39):
So, in a foreign land, howwould you find the strength or
the resilience within you to getout there into a very
aggressive market?
Because finding a job is noteasy.
It's definitely not easy for anaverage American, right, and
we're not just talking about ajob, job, we're talking about
thriving careers, right.
So they were forced to becomehousewives.
(07:02):
And that is what my book isabout.
It's about what I enduredthroughout these 10 years that
I've been.
I've been here for now 10 yearsa decade, and it's that entire
journey, which I take my readersthrough, of having lost my
identity, my purpose andcomplete meaning, so to say, and
(07:24):
then how I pulled myself out ofthat despair into light.
Audra (07:30):
What you're saying is that you came here, followed
your husband, on an H-1B visa.
Yes, and this is what was firstput into action in 1990.
Yes, and this is to bringothers from other countries for
(07:53):
specialties doctors, engineers,programmers, from, from whatever
there is around the world sothe us could have these
remarkable specialties from allaround the globe.
And so these gentlemen andthese could be women as well
that had spouses that theydidn't want to leave behind
(08:16):
could come in an H-1B visa.
But in most cases they were menbringing their wives across.
And in your case, your husbandis a physician, yeah, and you
are, or you were a an executiveyeah, you were an advertising
(08:39):
executives, a very good one inIndia, yes, so your initial plan
was to come over on a studentvisa, yes, and you thought, well
, I'll just be a student, I'llbe an academic, I'll just keep
improving myself and keeplearning, honing my craft, and
(09:03):
then eventually exchange thisvisa for something different.
Yes, that didn't exactly happenthe way you planned.
Varuni (09:14):
Yeah.
What happened that that planchanged.
So in 1990, there was theNational Immigration Act which
allowed high-skilled immigrants,like you said, the physicians,
it professionals and even NASAscientists and things like that.
So all of these people, theywere imported by America to
build all of these industries.
(09:35):
Prior to that, in the year 1950, in the 1950s, there was an
edge category which insisted andthey were mostly temporary
workers.
There was an edge categorywhich insisted and they were
mostly temporary workers, andthese temporary workers were
there was a huge wave of SouthAsians who came in.
This was actually followed bythe wave of high-skilled
(09:57):
immigrants, like my husband, whocame, who were allowed to come
in to build all of theseindustries which America really
needed to expand.
And what we see in the SiliconValley today, or what we see in
terms of the reach of thehealthcare system, was built on
the backs of these highlyintelligent people who could not
be temporary workers anymorebecause the nature of the job
(10:18):
has to be longer than threeyears.
So when the age class or thetemporary workers were brought
in, there was a clear.
There were lots of limitationswhich would not allow their
family members to come in, sothey could not bring in their
spouses or they could not evenbring in their children.
So in 1990, that changes alittle and it is framed as a
(10:39):
family reunification visa whenthe H4 is introduced.
So the way it's talked about isin a sort of a positive way and
that's how the H4, the spousalvisa, gets instated.
When I came in, my husband and Iwe had been dating for close to
about two to three years.
He comes from a very differentworld.
I was an academic in Indiaafter having worked in
(11:02):
advertising for a while, and heknew that these circumstances
existed.
He didn't know that the law wasgoing to change.
So he was very scared that ifhe brought me over and we fell
in love and we were both veryintelligent human beings and I
think that's what made us verylikable to each other.
So to say, it was theintelligence.
(11:22):
We're kind of like sapiosexual,you can say.
And um, he was like, if youcome in, you won't be able to
work, and I couldn't understandwhat he was really saying and I
thought he was trying to kind of, um, you know, like you know
how guys they try to like pushthe marriage question to let's
do it next year, kind of a thing.
(11:42):
So I thought he wasn't thatsure, but that wasn't really the
.
He was very worried that Iwould lose my career and my
identity.
So when I came in, as soon as Iwas in Detroit that's where he
was in the beginning he told meto go on a separate track as a
student and to try to do what Iwanted to do, which is I was
(12:06):
always very happy as a writer inadvertising, even though I had
switched to academia.
It was mostly to impress myfather, who's an academic, so he
said you should do what givesyou happiness, and by the time I
was only a couple of weeks in,I was trying to get into the
best journalism schools thatAmerica has to offer, and I did
(12:28):
get into one of the finest ones,which is in upstate New York,
and I did not know that, once Icome out, the law will change.
It just happened that, as soonas I graduated, 2015 had
happened and this slight changein the rule was taking place,
and my husband had applied forthe green card, though he was
(12:50):
still many, many years behind,and so, therefore, I
automatically had that option ofbeing able to work, but since I
had already gone in on anindependent track, I basically
needed to find a place tosponsor my visa, independent of
whatever he was doing, and Ithink that enabled me to work
(13:13):
for some good publishing houses,like I did work for Time Out
New York.
I also got the opportunity towork for the Guggenheim Museum.
I worked for other newspapers,which was facilitated by
Newhouse, which is the schoolthat I went to, so I had a great
start to my career.
However, things started tochange as soon as it was time of
(13:36):
elections, like what we'reexperiencing in America right
now, where suddenly there's thissort of suspicion around
immigrants, where they're seenas individuals who might be
taking away American jobs.
It was that climate that Ifound myself in when I
unfortunately lost my jobbecause I was doing well but
(13:58):
perhaps I was doing too well inthe publishing house where I was
able to land a job.
Audra (14:03):
So what happened after you lost your job.
You had to do something quickly, because if you were being
sponsored to stay in the country, that sponsorship is attached
to that employer.
Yes, so if that employer is nolonger in place, your
sponsorship isn't there eitherin place.
Varuni (14:26):
Your sponsorship isn't there either.
Absolutely, you're right.
So what happened was when Istarted working in the
publishing house.
That in itself was verychallenging because the way I
was used to writing in India, wewrite and express ourselves in
British English.
So when I had come to America,I had to learn to switch it to
American English, which soundsvery strange because there too
(14:47):
is just English, but it's a verydifferent way of communicating.
And because I had a very strongfoundation in advertising,
which is very simple, directcommunication and an economy of
words, I was able to do reallywell.
I just didn't know how to readthe politics of an office,
because that's what happens whenyou're an immigrant.
You can work really hard,almost with blinkers on, and
(15:10):
you're like I'm going to put inall these hours, I'm going to
work maybe 10 times harder thanmy employee, I'm going to be way
more, I'm going to be way moreserious about even landing a job
or an opportunity than myclassmates, and that's how I had
landed opportunities way beforemy classmates.
I think I just didn't know howto kind of interact.
(15:31):
When you're that competitive orwhen you're that focused on
just doing well, you can createan environment where people in
the same sort of corporate spacecan get threatened, right?
I didn't know how to play thatand that was kind of like.
Somewhere along the line I wasgaslighted and I was basically
(15:52):
made to look like I wasincompetent and, unfortunately,
in spite of getting a bonus, inspite of doing well, I got
played into the politics andlost my job in circumstances
which were very unfair and lostmy job in circumstances which
were very unfair.
So when I did get fired, I alsolost my confidence because
that's the first job that Ifirst real job that I had in
another country, right.
(16:13):
So when you get kicked out, youknow, you just lose all sense of
self because you're like, I'mnot even good enough for this.
And it wasn't like a very highpaying job, it was a small
publishing house where I wasjust one of the you know
assistant editors.
So when you lose something assimple as that, you kind of lose
(16:35):
your voice as a writer.
And I was on a visa which waslike a ticking time bomb in
terms terms of I only had closeto about six months now, because
I was six months in and I onlyhad six more months to try and
find an opportunity.
Um, but it becomes verydifficult because, no matter how
(16:56):
hard you try within the art andpublishing industry, even for a
regular american who belongs tomainstream America, it's very
tough to land a gig, you know.
But if they see that thoughyour paperwork clearly shows
that you will not, that theydon't know what's going to
happen after six months, right?
(17:16):
So how will they employ you?
Mostly, the question you wouldget asked is what do we do after
this date?
Or even if you were to join,say, another publishing house
and they do sponsor you on aseparate H1B or something like
that, that only happens topeople who are in these high
demand sort of fields, likemedicine, like tech.
(17:40):
It rarely happens to people whoare artists and writers.
So that's unfortunately how itfunctions in terms of the job
market.
So I was up against that tide.
I started fielding applicationsright away, even while I was
still in that publishing house,and was able to convince my CEO
(18:01):
that please give me some time tofigure this out, otherwise I
will literally have to leave myfamily.
You know I would have to goback, and if I go back, we'll
have to figure out how I comeback, and it could be very
complicated.
Which visa.
Will I come on?
Will I come back on the spousalor will I have to apply to
another?
You know, will I have to tryand come back as a student to
(18:23):
another university?
It was way more complicated, butwhat started off was 200
applications, which went into300 applications, and then a lot
of the interviews that tookplace were also in person.
I was trying to network and myresume was very solid.
(18:43):
It wasn't a flimsy resume.
I had demonstrated enough workto kind of, you know, convince
anyone who needed that kind ofwriting that I had published in
newspapers in America.
I had written for thispublishing house and for the
bigger magazines as well.
So it was just that thequestion that constantly was
(19:05):
asked to me was not about myskill set, it was more about the
visa, it was more about the, itwas more about the.
You know what would keep meemployable?
So to say um, and so it startsoff with one year, then two
years, then three years, andthen I finally give up because I
break down and I'm unable toeven step outside um and go for
(19:28):
anything at all, because myidentity was my work.
And with my husband mostly inthe hospital, it's not like he's
, he's there even on a regularday like today.
He leaves very early in themorning, he comes back very late
and he's at least for threeweeks he's on call right.
So it's a very isolatingexperience, not only for for me
(19:51):
for all of these women.
Their partners are usually injobs which keep them completely
occupied and, unlike me, I stillhave skills as a writer and an
artist who can do somethingconstructive or creative with
her time right.
Many of these women they neededthat stipulated structure of
going to a hospital or workingin a lab as a scientist.
(20:16):
If they don't have thatopportunity, what will these
women do?
The mind turns, the brain turnson itself and you just fall
into absolute depression.
So what really happened was avery deep-seated depression is
what I started sliding into, andbefore I knew it I was in that
(20:36):
dark place.
Audra (20:38):
And at this time you were in New York, yes, and you
did a very unique thing in yourdarkness, yeah, which was not a
fun place to be, and it createdstrife marital strife between
(21:01):
you and your husband.
Varuni (21:03):
Yeah.
Audra (21:03):
And to the point where he said we need to figure this
out.
Varuni (21:09):
Yeah.
Audra (21:10):
And he gave you space, a lot of space, and he did
something pretty brilliant thatI thought about after you and I
spoke and I thought this wasreally smart of him Before he
left to give you space so youcould find yourself back to
(21:33):
yourself again.
He got you a dog.
Yeah, and in New York, thatneeds to be walked.
There's no yards in New York.
Yeah, you have to go and youhave to go outside and walk
these dogs.
Varuni (21:48):
Yeah.
Audra (21:49):
So you had to go out and walk your dog, probably several
times a day.
Varuni (21:56):
Yeah.
Audra (21:57):
Tell us about the journey that you took, as you
were walking your dog in thestreets of New York.
Varuni (22:04):
Yeah, I did not know that depression can be so
destructive is what I want tostart off with, because not only
did I turn against my husband,I became a completely like.
I looked different, I was fullof anger, I was full of a lot of
(22:27):
resentment and even jealousytowards my husband, full of a
lot of resentment and evenjealousy towards my husband.
So I turned into a completemonster within three to four
years.
I want to only highlight thisbecause and I will talk about
also the fact that every day,which actually started off with
a lot of hope and resilience,even in this dark time of having
(22:48):
lost a job, because people willthink, okay, yeah, she's been.
People do get unemployed for ayear or two years, but then they
figure out something right.
But you can only figure out atrack if the track is available
to you.
You cannot figure out a trackif, every time you step outside,
the door is shut on you.
So then the track is completely, completely.
(23:10):
That option of rebuilding yourlife is not, was not available
to me because the stigmaassociated with my visa was so
strong.
It was literally like if Iwould get through an interview
eventually, when we would startdoing the paperwork and things
like that.
Suddenly person would getspooked and then they wouldn't
(23:32):
return my call or, if anyopportunities were even
available, I had to just agreeto work for free.
Now, that is complicated, right.
So it is because of thatsituation of feeling absolutely
cornered that after two, I thinktwo years or two and a half
(23:53):
years, I just started drinkingevery day.
So I would wait for my husbandto leave and then I would just
start drinking, and by the timehe would come home, I was this
raging monster who was waitingto just have an argument with
him, which would always end withblaming him for the whole
(24:13):
situation, right, blaming himfor the fact that he got me here
, the fact that he's a doctor,the fact that he was still
trying to solve my problems.
He was still trying to say, hey, how about doing something else
?
Maybe you can switch tracks tosomething technical?
And I would shoot that ideadown because I was like, what do
(24:33):
you want me to do?
Do you want me to now go backto school again?
Because I had worked as anacademic, I had been in media,
so I've gone to school multipletimes.
Right, I hold four masters.
I was on my way to finishingoff my PhD.
I taught at the university, sofor me, I had already rebuilt
(24:55):
myself in a way as a journalistright in America.
So when he would suggest thesethings, I'm like are you trying
to make fun of me in terms of sonow I go back to school and
what?
Do you want me to be a nurse?
Do you want me to be in tech?
But what is the point of evendoing that if in the end,
something else happens and theyuse that immigrant status
against me and that's whathappens.
(25:17):
The person who was trying toproblem solve because he was
trying to problem solve and nomatter what he would suggest to
me, I would shoot it down andinstead I would humiliate him,
and I can see that clearly now.
And because of that it createda huge problem where a doctor is
coming back after 14 hours ofhard work.
(25:38):
All he needs is sleep.
At the very least.
He just needs sleep right, noteven like food on the table.
That was absolute hell that Iput my husband through, and this
is also reflective of certaindynamics which I have seen play
out in other marriages of thesewomen, and these conversations
(26:03):
that I am privy to are becauseof many groups that are found on
social media, where this visa,the immigrant visa, has been
described as the depression visa, and I'm part of all these
groups on Reddit, on Facebook,where many of the members they
share what they go through on adaily basis, anonymously, as
anonymous members.
So I see what their brain isgoing through, how the brain has
(26:26):
turned against them, and thisis why, at one point, my husband
told me that we need space.
If we don't have that space,then there will be no way that
we will be able to solve this,and so he decided to just step
away.
He said he wasn't like leavingme, so to say, but he said he
(26:47):
needs to go away to Los Angelesand that's where he's going to
be, where he was able to getanother job, and he felt that
something was going on with mein terms of some sort of a
experiment of sorts which I wasdoing on the streets of New York
, and he thought there wassomething about New York which
will help me.
At the very least, he thoughtthat I can solve my problem on
(27:11):
my own.
He cannot help me with it, andI think that's a very evolved
point of view, because, if youthink about it, we cannot really
fix anybody else.
We can only fix ourselves.
He knew that if he just let mebe, I will be forced to deal
with my own demons.
Right, and it's not that he was.
(27:33):
He was just abandoning me.
He said that you can live inNew York, the rent's taken care
of.
He was giving me money, he saidif I wanted to do as many
courses and try and figure thisout, there was money for that.
And he got me a dog, a Goldador, which is a golden retriever in
a lab.
He even trained the dog to makesure that he can take care of
(27:53):
me as a therapy dog.
And then he left us and wentaway to Los Angeles.
He would keep checking on me,but I think it's extremely brave
of him to do that because,given my condition, if you met
me back then, I did not evencomb my hair or take a bath on
most days I looked like alunatic.
(28:15):
I was very.
It was like if I was living onthe streets is what you would
think I was.
You know, it was that kind of aexistence.
And then, because he gave me,because he did not want to solve
my problem, he didn't want toput the band-aid I was forced to
deal with my demons on my own.
So my husband goes away.
(28:35):
I'm left in this fancyapartment with a dog and, yes, I
have to step outside and haveto walk this dog because I
didn't want to be at home.
It was absolutely scary to beindoors.
Plus Mowgli, my dog, is anextremely active dog, so if I
did stay with him, he would likestart chewing like he would
(28:58):
start chewing my boots or thefurniture and things like that.
So there was an actualpractical problem which I needed
to solve in terms of taking himout.
And, yes, I start walkingoutside on the streets and then
randomly and this had startedbefore Mowgli came in as well I
would whenever I would gooutside and I was considering
(29:19):
some of the things which he wastalking about, which is taking
on courses, so I had starteddoing some evening classes at
continuing education programsand things like that, and when I
would step outside, evengenerally for a walk, there was
something strange in terms ofhow people had started
approaching me and talking to merandomly on the streets, which
(29:43):
I could not explain very clearly.
But it only took place duringthose two to three years that I
hit that depression and myhusband was away and after that
it did not happen.
Prior to that it did not happen.
And these people would walk upto me.
They would start a conversationwhich could be as bizarre as
(30:07):
what do you do, oh, where areyou from, and things like that,
and then they would startsharing intimate details about
their own personal life, youknow.
So somebody is talking aboutwhat's going on with their wife.
Once there was a person who gotreally emotional because he
looked at my dog and he was likeyour dog looks exactly like my
(30:28):
Roger and I lost my Rogerbecause somebody got into my
house and stole my dog.
And then he explained how, youknow, the person got in, took
his dog, you know, put him in abag and escaped, and the police
were never able to track thatrobber.
There was this other guy whotalked about how he lost all his
weight just by smelling hisshit.
(30:49):
So he would say he would smellhis shit to figure out what he
was putting into his body, right?
So there were these bizarrestories and I'm like, well, why
are people talking to me?
It was almost like I felt therewas this sort of like weird
portal of thoughts that hadopened up and I was like a
psychic, who's you know gotthese powers to make people talk
(31:11):
.
But essentially it would happenon a very frequent basis,
almost every day, where I wouldmeet someone strange and they
would open their hearts to meand I would come back home and I
would write these stories down,which I started recording in my
diary as strangers on thestreet.
So it's very different fromwhat humans of New York did on a
(31:33):
much larger scale.
He went out and he was actuallytrying to create a platform For
me.
I think I felt that thesewhispers from the street were
kind of healing me, were slowlytaking away my pain, because
what started off was I wascompletely isolated and shut off
in this sort of chamber of painand trauma because of my
(31:55):
inability to work, to findexpression for myself as an
intelligent human being, right.
And then the isolation wasbroken by these people who were
just coming and talking to meand slowly I start observing
that these people are showing mea mirror.
They're showing me that ineither sides there are just
(32:16):
human beings, and so while theelection and the politics and
all that craziness was playingon in the media around me, I was
able to see that the regularhuman being on the streets of
America is full of love, is fullof basic humanity, right, full
of the same doubts, highs andlows.
(32:37):
The heartbreak as I am, we'reboth the same.
We could be different races, wecould speak differently, but
we're essentially the same andwe are being pulled apart by
these media houses, by thesepoliticians, by anyone who is
trying to profit off of thebasic needs that human beings
have, right, and we're beingplayed as pawns against each
(32:59):
other, and that is what allowedme to change my perspective.
Audra (33:04):
You tell a story.
You told me a story and wespoke before about the kindness
of strangers book before aboutthe kindness of strangers.
Yeah, and it was this amazingstory about.
It was surrounding your dog andhow your dog on one of these
excursions that you were outwalking your dog, how you got
(33:26):
distracted because you wereupset and your dog got loose and
the kindness of strangers onceagain stepped in and rescued.
Tell us a little bit about thismiraculous event.
Varuni (33:43):
Yes, during that time, my husband and I we were living
in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn andBed-Stuy Brooklyn is where a lot
of African-Americans live andon that day, george Floyd had
happened and it was impactingthe community in a very
significant way and I think Icould feel it.
(34:04):
I could feel the tension in theair and it also impacts you as
an immigrant, because you'relike, if people here, people who
are born here, they areexperiencing something like this
, what could happen to you?
Right, my dog?
(34:33):
I had found some sort ofhealing and because of that, I
had also started talking to alot of homeless people and got
into social work.
So I had started working for aninstitution called the Bowery
Mission, which is an institutionthat works for the homeless,
but they wanted me to come andteach art and creative writing
for their kids and that had, ontop of the experiences on the
streets that had further allowedme to heal and, you know, open
(34:55):
up my heart.
But that day, all the fear andthe trauma that I had
experienced when my husband, youknow, had decided to go away
and leave me alone, that fearcame back again and I was
completely full of this sort oflike, this negative spiral where
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
(35:16):
This is just not possible.
I can't live here and I'mtalking to my husband on the
phone and I'm so distracted thatmy dog, his leash and his
entire harness it came off.
So now he has nothing on hisbody.
Harness it came off, so now hehas nothing on his body.
And we're on.
We're right next to a trafficintersection, which is one of
(35:36):
the major intersections inBed-Stuy, and when that happens
to a dog they become verydisoriented and they will just
run, so they will mimic whateveryou're doing.
So I was frantic and I startedlike screaming.
And I was screaming, I was likecan someone please, can someone
please save my dog?
And because of that energy, mydog didn't know what to do.
(35:57):
First he started running aroundme and then he ran straight
towards traffic which is comingtowards him.
So he's bolting straighttowards traffic and all I can do
is scream.
I'm not even articulate.
There were these four to fiveguys who were watching this
happen from the sidewalk and,without caring for their lives,
(36:18):
they jumped straight into thetraffic and that day either
those people would have they ranafter my dog on, you know, from
different directions, so thatthey could somehow catch him and
(36:39):
he's a big, strong dog.
So he tried to fight them offand the traffic it sort of
started slowing down.
They're seeing that this ishappening.
That does not happen in NewYork City.
They're seeing that this ishappening.
That does not happen in NewYork City.
In New York you just likenobody strangers do show
kindness once in a while, buteveryone it's like each man for
himself, right?
That's the kind of city becauseit's cutthroat, even on the
(37:00):
sidewalks when you're walking.
Nobody gives a damn if there'sdrama playing out, right?
So they didn't have to do that,yet they did, and I saw that it
took a while for them to dragMowgli to the corner.
Somebody figured out where isthe leash, where is the harness.
Somebody else figured out thatI'm still in a state of shock.
(37:22):
So they kind of made sure thatyou know I stopped shaking and
they can give me the dog at atime where he's properly
harnessed and I'm in thepsychological state to actually
carry my puppy back home.
One, that creature, my beautifuldog, who had actually helped me
snap out of my depression, whohad taken me to the streets and
(37:55):
shown me that life was stillpossible without having a job
without too much changing for me, right?
My dog would have been batteredon the streets, right?
If it was not for the kindnessof these men.
So I decided that I need to sitdown and I need to take a, you
know, complete.
I need to look at my life allover again and I decided to make
(38:17):
a list as to everything thathas happened which is good for
me and everything that hashappened which is bad for me as
an immigrant woman.
I literally made a list and inthat list, the good that had
happened to me, that entire list, was way longer than the bad,
and so I was like what are youeven complaining about?
(38:39):
You know that there's so manypeople who have shown up in your
life and who have supported youat different times, at
different junctures.
So why does your brainconstantly try to go and hold on
to the negatives?
And this is what I thinkhappens to any individual.
Any human being, you know,tries to hold on to the tragedy
(39:00):
so that we feel self-important.
That is why, you know,therapists talk about a
gratitude journal, because it'sthe tendency of the human mind
to go towards oh, this did notwork out or that did not work
out.
But even at the end of a reallytough day, even if you're
grateful about one thing thatcan give you hope to carry on.
(39:21):
And as soon as I had that sortof realization, I saw the story
of an artist by the name ofRichard Phillips, and I saw it
almost simultaneously.
It's like this realizationdawns upon me.
And then, on social media, Isee the story of an
African-American man who hadbeen incarcerated for close to
(39:43):
about 46 years for a crime thathe had not committed.
So he was put behind bars bysomebody in his community that
implicated him, and by the timethat somebody actually came
forward and said that I was noteven there.
I don't know this man, richardPhillips, had already spent 46
years for a murder that he didnot commit In order to stay sane
(40:07):
.
During that time, richardPhillips would get up every day
in the morning and he would makea watercolor painting, and that
is what allowed him to carry onfrom one day to the other.
And as I'm listening to thisstory on social media and as I'm
looking at the beautifulexplosion of colors in his
(40:28):
watercolors, which are just verycheap, and he would paint them
and he would hide them so thatthe people in the jail, the
guards.
They could not take away thoselittle moments of freedom or
beauty that he created forhimself.
So as I'm watching the story, Irealize that both richard and I
have two things in common wehave abundance of time and we
(40:52):
have creativity, and I canactually learn from that.
Instead of blaming my husband orblaming circumstances that are
out of my control, if I focus onwhat is in my control, what I
can do is I can write my story.
If I sit down today and startdocumenting everything that I
(41:12):
have been through and, in spiteof everything that I have been
through, how I have allowed myperspective to change around, to
turn around and look at andcelebrate the glimpses of hope
in every day, then perhaps Iwill be able to help anybody
else in my situation.
And I knew there were women likeme who existed, and there are
(41:33):
also other human beings who hadmet on the streets right,
somebody who might have gotcancer, who had met on the
streets right, somebody whomight have got cancer, somebody
who's lost a limb, or somebodywho's been deceived very badly
by a family member, somebodywho's experienced death.
So when we experience suchtragic events and still find a
reason to carry on.
(41:54):
That defines true strength andresilience.
And if I learn from RichardPhillips that I can maximize my
time, then he and I despitebeing in a jail because I
thought I was in a jail, in aprison of sorts I will be
completely free, and that's theday I decided to sit and start
writing my story.
(42:14):
It was actually during thepandemic, when we came back to
New York City, when my husbandhad to go into cases on a daily
basis where he was being exposedto the virus, that I sat and
got very serious about finishingoff my manuscript, which is out
today as Golden Handcuffs.
Audra (42:32):
And this is why I said in the beginning that, even
though your story is one ofdespair, it is also one of hope,
and even though yours is astory of immigration, it is a
story that everybody can relateto, because, even though Richard
Phillips was in a physical jail, how many people are in an
(42:58):
emotional jail?
Yeah, can be in touch with, andwhat you went through that
(43:22):
people can relate to, and howyou came out on the other side
Is what gives people hope, andthat is what I wanted to
highlight today Is that you wentthrough hell.
Yeah, you walked throughliteral hell and somehow picked
(43:45):
up pieces of yourself, becauseyour life was shattered into
pieces.
What you had known to beyourself before could no longer
be yeah, so you had to recreatesomething new.
Yeah, no longer be, yeah, soyou had to recreate something
(44:05):
new.
Yeah, and it's more beautifulthan it was, than what you left
behind.
Yes, and I think that is thelesson, yes, that you are
creating for, as a blueprint forothers to learn from.
Varuni (44:17):
Yes, and and when.
When I did sit down to, youknow, work on my manuscript very
seriously.
It's almost like when you sitdown to actually do that act of
courage, the universe will sendmore challenges your way when
you actually sit down to okay,I'm going to defeat this
challenge.
(44:37):
I'm going to, you know, notallow it to defeat me.
That's when I got pregnant andat the same time this was COVID,
where we had already been goingthrough a lot of, you know,
emotional and psychologicalpressure because a lot of my
husband's beliefs, because ofoverexposure to the virus in New
York City, which at that timewas the center of the epidemic.
(45:00):
They had unfortunately losttheir lives.
So we were against.
You know something that wedidn't know we will survive when
we were able to get past thefirst couple of rough months.
I'm sitting on a daily basissending out chapters to my
editor so that she can try andpiece together this as a story.
But at the end of each day I'mactually scared with whether my
(45:23):
husband will come back alive ornot, whether I'll get COVID or
not.
It's a very strange experience.
But at the same time I had thissort of feeling that if I don't
write the book now, what if Iactually die?
And if I die, this will be thelast thing that I put in print.
So might as well do it todayrather than tomorrow, and so get
the story out now, because youcould die and maybe use that to
(45:47):
propel yourself forward.
So that is what allowed me toget past the writer's block, to
get past all those oh, I'll doit tomorrow which happens to a
lot of creatives.
However, unfortunately, we hadtwo things which happened to a
lot of creatives.
However, unfortunately, we hadtwo things which happened to us.
I got pregnant, which wasbeautiful, which was amazing
because we took a pause.
(46:07):
You know, once the craziness ofCOVID kind of started like
ebbing down.
I got pregnant and we were veryhappy and we wanted to share it
with our family.
But my husband's mothercontracted COVID at the same
time in New Delhi and we foundout that she because COVID, you
know, unmasked a very strangebehavior which was taking place
(46:29):
with her and she wasn't makingany cognitive sense.
And before we knew it, within aweek, we got the brain scans
and realized that she hadcleoblastoma, a brain tumor
which kills a person withinthree to four months, and my
husband, having gone throughhell in the city had to figure
out how he would get his mother,who could die in a couple of
(46:53):
months, from New Delhi to NewYork, and the trauma of you know
.
He was brought up by a singlemom because his father had a
stroke early on and he is alive,but he's completely dependent.
He was completely dependent onhis wife.
That's why he'd become a strokedoctor.
He had to figure out how to, ason an immigrant visa he was not
(47:15):
allowed to leave.
So most of our lawyers they didnot even make it that easy
because they were like if youlose your job, we don't want to
take the responsibility for it.
He still took that risk,brought his dying mother home.
We took care of her, butbecause of the stress of the
situation, we lost our baby.
So we went through all that buthe still did not.
Let me quit on writing my book,and I think that is an important
(47:38):
lesson as well.
When we take on this challengeof trying to defeat any problem
that we face, sometimes we willbe challenged by the universe
with pain that can seem way moredifficult to navigate.
You know, to lose a child andthen to.
He lost his child and he losthis mother, the only person who
(48:01):
brought him up and I physicallyhad to go through that trauma.
Honestly, I thought that when Ihad put myself in lockdown like
self-imposed lockdown I wasbeing trained for this period of
time.
Like, psychologically, I wasbeing trained for it even before
it happened.
So I knew how to survivewithout external stimuli, and I
knew how to completely focus onwhat is absolutely essential,
(48:25):
which, at that point then, wasto take my mother-in-law to her
final days as I finished mymanuscript.
So, yeah, that was the finalchallenge which I had to go
through.
What I will tell you, though, isthat, as people are reading
this book, they could be anyoneLike.
This morning, I met anindividual from Boston.
(48:46):
He is actually an advertisingexecutive.
There's a single mom who's inBrooklyn.
She works in a gym as a trainer, as a physical trainer.
All kinds of people are readingthis book who belong to
different socioeconomic orracial backgrounds in America,
(49:08):
and the one thing that they'retalking about is how they all
can relate to it, how everyonehas golden handcuffs in their
own lives, and how it's soimportant to focus on what we
can control and what we canchange.
Otherwise, life is hard foranyone.
Audra (49:25):
And the other thing is that there's always light at the
end of the tunnel and that weare all just people, and as long
as we remember that and connectwith each other, then we're
okay.
Yes, do you mind sharing withthe audience your light, your
(49:46):
light at the end of the tunnel,what you've shared with me at
the beginning?
Varuni (49:50):
Yes, what I basically also my light was to understand
that when you are being like,when you experience some of
these things, even as animmigrant, you feel that this is
being done specifically to you,that you're being targeted or
everybody is against you.
(50:11):
That is not the case.
Or when someone goes throughany tragedy of any nature, they
feel that the world is againstthem it's me against the world,
but that happens to everyone.
So we all fall down, only tolearn how to build ourselves
back again, brick by brick.
So darkness is not unique toany one individual.
(50:33):
We can choose to remain in thatdarkness, to feel very special
and self-important as tragicheroes.
Yes, we can stay in that funkforever, like I was in that funk
where I was drinking and angryand crazy towards my husband, or
we can let go of that self-pityand think about how I'm going
(50:54):
to start the journey of healing,and my light was essentially
looking at the lives of thoseindividuals who may have far
fewer resources than I had.
I did have food on the table,it's not to be taken for granted
.
I had a beautiful apartment.
I had a husband who cared forme.
These are important things.
(51:15):
If you don't have a person wholoves you.
Life can be so lonely andmeaningless for so many people
here.
This person was willing to doanything to try and solve my
problems.
Yet I was focusing on that onething that did not work out for
me.
That is the light In anyone'slife.
There would be this one thingthat they might be stuck upon.
(51:38):
But if they look at the largerpicture, in that larger picture,
they will also find thatthere's so many people in the
real margins of society, likewhen I went to East Harlem and I
worked in Bowery Mission.
I saw how painful the life of aperson is who cannot even get
proper food on the table fortheir kids, who has to figure
(51:59):
out ways to get their kids offof the streets and send them to
programs which are free andstate-funded so that they don't
get into drugs or crime.
I actually witnessed it.
And so when you don't see thelight in your life, look at the
lives of someone who has no one.
Nothing, which is what I foundamongst the homeless people on
(52:19):
the streets, and some of themwere the kindest people.
So you will be surprised thatpeople who have nothing may have
the biggest and the largestheart.
That was the light that I foundand that we are all the same on
every side of the divide,whether it's racial, political,
economic.
Audra (52:39):
We're all the same, and that's an important lesson to
remember as we go forward.
I am so honored and absolutelyjust humbled that you have
chosen to share your story on myshow.
Thank you, share your story onmy show, thank you.
(53:06):
I am just so thrilled that youshared this with me and that I
get the privilege of sharingyour story with the audience.
Thank you for writing this.
Thank you for turning yourstory into one of hope and not
of despair, and one that is sorelatable regardless of our
circumstances, and it literallygives us a pathway forward.
(53:30):
So thank you, first of all, forwriting it, for being brave
enough to write it, and forspending the time with us today
to tell us a little bit moreabout you and some insight, and
for letting us feel like we'renot alone in this big blue world
of ours.
So thank you for spending thetime with us today.
Varuni (53:53):
Thank you, audra, thank you so much for having me and
giving me this platform.
Audra (53:57):
Thanks, it has been my pleasure, and thank you all for
listening and we'll see youagain next time.
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week I have an incrediblybrave and bold woman with me
today.
Today, my guest is VeroniqueSinha, and she is a New York
City-based writer and multimediaproducer.
She has written for the Postand Courier Time Out New York
(00:23):
and created 360-degree campaignsfor global brands such as
Yamaha and Panasonic.
She just recently released herbook entitled Golden Handcuffs
and Immigrants' Pursuit ofHappiness, just this June.
It is her story.
It is her story of change andheartbreak, triumph and despair,
(00:46):
but ultimately it is hermessage of hope to all of you.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Varuni
Varuni.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the show.
Varuni (01:00):
Thank you, Audra.
I'm so happy to be here today.
Audra (01:04):
I'm very excited to have you with me today.
You have such a remarkablestory not one that I have ever
heard, at least not told fromyour point of view be heard more
(01:31):
often, because it's not justunique, but it's one that is
universal and easily understood.
As I said in your intro, it isall these feelings of the human
condition, and you had them allin a very short period of time.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour remarkable story.
Varuni (01:54):
So I would like to say that this is the first time a
South Asian woman has written amemoir talking about something
that South Asian women haveendured since 1990 in America,
and they have been too scared totalk about it.
(02:16):
Because as immigrants you tendto question what you can say,
what you can't say and how youcome across to the external
world.
What you can say, what youcan't say, and how you come
across to the external world.
Because in just the process ofbecoming the so-called other in
another country, you do loseyour voice sometimes.
(02:40):
My story is a story of womenwho came to this country.
It's a beautiful country, trustme.
Very I have had an experiencewhich I can only describe as a
spiritual journey, so to say,because I came from a very um,
entitled background.
I am the so-called elite inindia, because I do belong to
the traditional upper caste, andwhen I came to america I became
(03:02):
the margins.
I taught these things, I taughtabout race and politics through
literature when I was anacademic in India, but I lived
that experience of what it'slike to be on the margins when I
came to America to understandonly one thing that many women
(03:23):
like me who had come before tothis country, even though they
were legal immigrants, they didnot, on the spousal visa that
they came on, have the legalright to work.
Many of these women, they wereas talented, as skilled and
educated as the men that theymarried, and it's not like
(03:47):
anyone was trying to fool them.
It's just that they were notaware of all the nitty-gritties
of the law.
Even their husbands, in somecases early on, did not know or
understand, because they're alsogoing into the unknown, so to
say, to pursue their career.
The other reason why thesewomen did not speak up or write
(04:09):
about it as much was because inSouth Asian milieu, you're
supposed to be extremelysupportive to your husband, to
your children.
You're supposed to be verysupportive, even as a sister, to
your husband, to your children.
You're supposed to be verysupportive even as a sister.
So from a very young age youare tutored in so many ways to
(04:30):
be the kind, silent, sacrificingentity which is then celebrated
in our culture as that.
Look at this beautiful woman.
Because she lost all her voice,because she had no needs right.
So when these women, they camehere and they realized that,
even though they themselves weredoctors or they themselves were
(04:51):
journalists or writers orartists or anything.
All they could do when theycame here was just stay on the
spousal visa as a wife and justtake care of wifely duties,
which, if you think about it inthe 21st century, it just
doesn't make sense to just bethe mother without anything else
to do, especially if thatdecision is forced upon you, if
(05:14):
you don't have a choice.
So when they came in 1990, theywere not even allowed to have
an independent social securitynumber.
They were not allowed to,without their husband's
permission, be allowed to open abank account or, without their
husband's permission, even get adriver's license.
(05:34):
That, in its very framework, isvery problematic.
I should point out, however,that in 2015, which was two
years after I came to america Icame in 2013 there was a rule, a
change in the in the law whichwas brought about which allowed
some of these spouses not theentire crew, and this group is
(05:56):
at least half a million women,if not more some of these women,
a small portion if theirhusbands had fulfilled certain
steps in the green cardapplication process, then they
would have what is called theemployment card, but because for
so many years, they hadcompletely lost on their careers
(06:19):
.
Right, so if you're sitting athome for 10 years or 15 years,
or if you're constantly you knowtold that, hey, sitting at home
for 10 years or 15 years, or ifyou're constantly told that,
hey, sit at home and take careof the kids or have kids because
you have no other option, youjust become like a walking
talking corpse.
In that situation, you lose yourability to even find a job,
even if you were in your owncountry.
(06:39):
So, in a foreign land, howwould you find the strength or
the resilience within you to getout there into a very
aggressive market?
Because finding a job is noteasy.
It's definitely not easy for anaverage American, right, and
we're not just talking about ajob, job, we're talking about
thriving careers, right.
So they were forced to becomehousewives.
(07:02):
And that is what my book isabout.
It's about what I enduredthroughout these 10 years that
I've been.
I've been here for now 10 yearsa decade, and it's that entire
journey, which I take my readersthrough, of having lost my
identity, my purpose andcomplete meaning, so to say, and
(07:24):
then how I pulled myself out ofthat despair into light.
Audra (07:30):
What you're saying is that you came here, followed
your husband, on an H-1B visa.
Yes, and this is what was firstput into action in 1990.
Yes, and this is to bringothers from other countries for
(07:53):
specialties doctors, engineers,programmers, from, from whatever
there is around the world sothe us could have these
remarkable specialties from allaround the globe.
And so these gentlemen andthese could be women as well
that had spouses that theydidn't want to leave behind
(08:16):
could come in an H-1B visa.
But in most cases they were menbringing their wives across.
And in your case, your husbandis a physician, yeah, and you
are, or you were a an executiveyeah, you were an advertising
(08:39):
executives, a very good one inIndia, yes, so your initial plan
was to come over on a studentvisa, yes, and you thought, well
, I'll just be a student, I'llbe an academic, I'll just keep
improving myself and keeplearning, honing my craft, and
(09:03):
then eventually exchange thisvisa for something different.
Yes, that didn't exactly happenthe way you planned.
Varuni (09:14):
Yeah.
What happened that that planchanged.
So in 1990, there was theNational Immigration Act which
allowed high-skilled immigrants,like you said, the physicians,
it professionals and even NASAscientists and things like that.
So all of these people, theywere imported by America to
build all of these industries.
(09:35):
Prior to that, in the year 1950, in the 1950s, there was an
edge category which insisted andthey were mostly temporary
workers.
There was an edge categorywhich insisted and they were
mostly temporary workers, andthese temporary workers were
there was a huge wave of SouthAsians who came in.
This was actually followed bythe wave of high-skilled
(09:57):
immigrants, like my husband, whocame, who were allowed to come
in to build all of theseindustries which America really
needed to expand.
And what we see in the SiliconValley today, or what we see in
terms of the reach of thehealthcare system, was built on
the backs of these highlyintelligent people who could not
be temporary workers anymorebecause the nature of the job
(10:18):
has to be longer than threeyears.
So when the age class or thetemporary workers were brought
in, there was a clear.
There were lots of limitationswhich would not allow their
family members to come in, sothey could not bring in their
spouses or they could not evenbring in their children.
So in 1990, that changes alittle and it is framed as a
(10:39):
family reunification visa whenthe H4 is introduced.
So the way it's talked about isin a sort of a positive way and
that's how the H4, the spousalvisa, gets instated.
When I came in, my husband and Iwe had been dating for close to
about two to three years.
He comes from a very differentworld.
I was an academic in Indiaafter having worked in
(11:02):
advertising for a while, and heknew that these circumstances
existed.
He didn't know that the law wasgoing to change.
So he was very scared that ifhe brought me over and we fell
in love and we were both veryintelligent human beings and I
think that's what made us verylikable to each other.
So to say, it was theintelligence.
(11:22):
We're kind of like sapiosexual,you can say.
And um, he was like, if youcome in, you won't be able to
work, and I couldn't understandwhat he was really saying and I
thought he was trying to kind of, um, you know, like you know
how guys they try to like pushthe marriage question to let's
do it next year, kind of a thing.
(11:42):
So I thought he wasn't thatsure, but that wasn't really the
.
He was very worried that Iwould lose my career and my
identity.
So when I came in, as soon as Iwas in Detroit that's where he
was in the beginning he told meto go on a separate track as a
student and to try to do what Iwanted to do, which is I was
(12:06):
always very happy as a writer inadvertising, even though I had
switched to academia.
It was mostly to impress myfather, who's an academic, so he
said you should do what givesyou happiness, and by the time I
was only a couple of weeks in,I was trying to get into the
best journalism schools thatAmerica has to offer, and I did
(12:28):
get into one of the finest ones,which is in upstate New York,
and I did not know that, once Icome out, the law will change.
It just happened that, as soonas I graduated, 2015 had
happened and this slight changein the rule was taking place,
and my husband had applied forthe green card, though he was
(12:50):
still many, many years behind,and so, therefore, I
automatically had that option ofbeing able to work, but since I
had already gone in on anindependent track, I basically
needed to find a place tosponsor my visa, independent of
whatever he was doing, and Ithink that enabled me to work
(13:13):
for some good publishing houses,like I did work for Time Out
New York.
I also got the opportunity towork for the Guggenheim Museum.
I worked for other newspapers,which was facilitated by
Newhouse, which is the schoolthat I went to, so I had a great
start to my career.
However, things started tochange as soon as it was time of
(13:36):
elections, like what we'reexperiencing in America right
now, where suddenly there's thissort of suspicion around
immigrants, where they're seenas individuals who might be
taking away American jobs.
It was that climate that Ifound myself in when I
unfortunately lost my jobbecause I was doing well but
(13:58):
perhaps I was doing too well inthe publishing house where I was
able to land a job.
Audra (14:03):
So what happened after you lost your job.
You had to do something quickly, because if you were being
sponsored to stay in the country, that sponsorship is attached
to that employer.
Yes, so if that employer is nolonger in place, your
sponsorship isn't there eitherin place.
Varuni (14:26):
Your sponsorship isn't there either.
Absolutely, you're right.
So what happened was when Istarted working in the
publishing house.
That in itself was verychallenging because the way I
was used to writing in India, wewrite and express ourselves in
British English.
So when I had come to America,I had to learn to switch it to
American English, which soundsvery strange because there too
(14:47):
is just English, but it's a verydifferent way of communicating.
And because I had a very strongfoundation in advertising,
which is very simple, directcommunication and an economy of
words, I was able to do reallywell.
I just didn't know how to readthe politics of an office,
because that's what happens whenyou're an immigrant.
You can work really hard,almost with blinkers on, and
(15:10):
you're like I'm going to put inall these hours, I'm going to
work maybe 10 times harder thanmy employee, I'm going to be way
more, I'm going to be way moreserious about even landing a job
or an opportunity than myclassmates, and that's how I had
landed opportunities way beforemy classmates.
I think I just didn't know howto kind of interact.
(15:31):
When you're that competitive orwhen you're that focused on
just doing well, you can createan environment where people in
the same sort of corporate spacecan get threatened, right?
I didn't know how to play thatand that was kind of like.
Somewhere along the line I wasgaslighted and I was basically
(15:52):
made to look like I wasincompetent and, unfortunately,
in spite of getting a bonus, inspite of doing well, I got
played into the politics andlost my job in circumstances
which were very unfair and lostmy job in circumstances which
were very unfair.
So when I did get fired, I alsolost my confidence because
that's the first job that Ifirst real job that I had in
another country, right.
(16:13):
So when you get kicked out, youknow, you just lose all sense of
self because you're like, I'mnot even good enough for this.
And it wasn't like a very highpaying job, it was a small
publishing house where I wasjust one of the you know
assistant editors.
So when you lose something assimple as that, you kind of lose
(16:35):
your voice as a writer.
And I was on a visa which waslike a ticking time bomb in
terms terms of I only had closeto about six months now, because
I was six months in and I onlyhad six more months to try and
find an opportunity.
Um, but it becomes verydifficult because, no matter how
(16:56):
hard you try within the art andpublishing industry, even for a
regular american who belongs tomainstream America, it's very
tough to land a gig, you know.
But if they see that thoughyour paperwork clearly shows
that you will not, that theydon't know what's going to
happen after six months, right?
(17:16):
So how will they employ you?
Mostly, the question you wouldget asked is what do we do after
this date?
Or even if you were to join,say, another publishing house
and they do sponsor you on aseparate H1B or something like
that, that only happens topeople who are in these high
demand sort of fields, likemedicine, like tech.
(17:40):
It rarely happens to people whoare artists and writers.
So that's unfortunately how itfunctions in terms of the job
market.
So I was up against that tide.
I started fielding applicationsright away, even while I was
still in that publishing house,and was able to convince my CEO
(18:01):
that please give me some time tofigure this out, otherwise I
will literally have to leave myfamily.
You know I would have to goback, and if I go back, we'll
have to figure out how I comeback, and it could be very
complicated.
Which visa.
Will I come on?
Will I come back on the spousalor will I have to apply to
another?
You know, will I have to tryand come back as a student to
(18:23):
another university?
It was way more complicated, butwhat started off was 200
applications, which went into300 applications, and then a lot
of the interviews that tookplace were also in person.
I was trying to network and myresume was very solid.
(18:43):
It wasn't a flimsy resume.
I had demonstrated enough workto kind of, you know, convince
anyone who needed that kind ofwriting that I had published in
newspapers in America.
I had written for thispublishing house and for the
bigger magazines as well.
So it was just that thequestion that constantly was
(19:05):
asked to me was not about myskill set, it was more about the
visa, it was more about the, itwas more about the.
You know what would keep meemployable?
So to say um, and so it startsoff with one year, then two
years, then three years, andthen I finally give up because I
break down and I'm unable toeven step outside um and go for
(19:28):
anything at all, because myidentity was my work.
And with my husband mostly inthe hospital, it's not like he's
, he's there even on a regularday like today.
He leaves very early in themorning, he comes back very late
and he's at least for threeweeks he's on call right.
So it's a very isolatingexperience, not only for for me
(19:51):
for all of these women.
Their partners are usually injobs which keep them completely
occupied and, unlike me, I stillhave skills as a writer and an
artist who can do somethingconstructive or creative with
her time right.
Many of these women they neededthat stipulated structure of
going to a hospital or workingin a lab as a scientist.
(20:16):
If they don't have thatopportunity, what will these
women do?
The mind turns, the brain turnson itself and you just fall
into absolute depression.
So what really happened was avery deep-seated depression is
what I started sliding into, andbefore I knew it I was in that
(20:36):
dark place.
Audra (20:38):
And at this time you were in New York, yes, and you
did a very unique thing in yourdarkness, yeah, which was not a
fun place to be, and it createdstrife marital strife between
(21:01):
you and your husband.
Varuni (21:03):
Yeah.
Audra (21:03):
And to the point where he said we need to figure this
out.
Varuni (21:09):
Yeah.
Audra (21:10):
And he gave you space, a lot of space, and he did
something pretty brilliant thatI thought about after you and I
spoke and I thought this wasreally smart of him Before he
left to give you space so youcould find yourself back to
(21:33):
yourself again.
He got you a dog.
Yeah, and in New York, thatneeds to be walked.
There's no yards in New York.
Yeah, you have to go and youhave to go outside and walk
these dogs.
Varuni (21:48):
Yeah.
Audra (21:49):
So you had to go out and walk your dog, probably several
times a day.
Varuni (21:56):
Yeah.
Audra (21:57):
Tell us about the journey that you took, as you
were walking your dog in thestreets of New York.
Varuni (22:04):
Yeah, I did not know that depression can be so
destructive is what I want tostart off with, because not only
did I turn against my husband,I became a completely like.
I looked different, I was fullof anger, I was full of a lot of
(22:27):
resentment and even jealousytowards my husband, full of a
lot of resentment and evenjealousy towards my husband.
So I turned into a completemonster within three to four
years.
I want to only highlight thisbecause and I will talk about
also the fact that every day,which actually started off with
a lot of hope and resilience,even in this dark time of having
(22:48):
lost a job, because people willthink, okay, yeah, she's been.
People do get unemployed for ayear or two years, but then they
figure out something right.
But you can only figure out atrack if the track is available
to you.
You cannot figure out a trackif, every time you step outside,
the door is shut on you.
So then the track is completely, completely.
(23:10):
That option of rebuilding yourlife is not, was not available
to me because the stigmaassociated with my visa was so
strong.
It was literally like if Iwould get through an interview
eventually, when we would startdoing the paperwork and things
like that.
Suddenly person would getspooked and then they wouldn't
(23:32):
return my call or, if anyopportunities were even
available, I had to just agreeto work for free.
Now, that is complicated, right.
So it is because of thatsituation of feeling absolutely
cornered that after two, I thinktwo years or two and a half
(23:53):
years, I just started drinkingevery day.
So I would wait for my husbandto leave and then I would just
start drinking, and by the timehe would come home, I was this
raging monster who was waitingto just have an argument with
him, which would always end withblaming him for the whole
(24:13):
situation, right, blaming himfor the fact that he got me here
, the fact that he's a doctor,the fact that he was still
trying to solve my problems.
He was still trying to say, hey, how about doing something else
?
Maybe you can switch tracks tosomething technical?
And I would shoot that ideadown because I was like, what do
(24:33):
you want me to do?
Do you want me to now go backto school again?
Because I had worked as anacademic, I had been in media,
so I've gone to school multipletimes.
Right, I hold four masters.
I was on my way to finishingoff my PhD.
I taught at the university, sofor me, I had already rebuilt
(24:55):
myself in a way as a journalistright in America.
So when he would suggest thesethings, I'm like are you trying
to make fun of me in terms of sonow I go back to school and
what?
Do you want me to be a nurse?
Do you want me to be in tech?
But what is the point of evendoing that if in the end,
something else happens and theyuse that immigrant status
against me and that's whathappens.
(25:17):
The person who was trying toproblem solve because he was
trying to problem solve and nomatter what he would suggest to
me, I would shoot it down andinstead I would humiliate him,
and I can see that clearly now.
And because of that it createda huge problem where a doctor is
coming back after 14 hours ofhard work.
(25:38):
All he needs is sleep.
At the very least.
He just needs sleep right, noteven like food on the table.
That was absolute hell that Iput my husband through, and this
is also reflective of certaindynamics which I have seen play
out in other marriages of thesewomen, and these conversations
(26:03):
that I am privy to are becauseof many groups that are found on
social media, where this visa,the immigrant visa, has been
described as the depression visa, and I'm part of all these
groups on Reddit, on Facebook,where many of the members they
share what they go through on adaily basis, anonymously, as
anonymous members.
So I see what their brain isgoing through, how the brain has
(26:26):
turned against them, and thisis why, at one point, my husband
told me that we need space.
If we don't have that space,then there will be no way that
we will be able to solve this,and so he decided to just step
away.
He said he wasn't like leavingme, so to say, but he said he
(26:47):
needs to go away to Los Angelesand that's where he's going to
be, where he was able to getanother job, and he felt that
something was going on with mein terms of some sort of a
experiment of sorts which I wasdoing on the streets of New York
, and he thought there wassomething about New York which
will help me.
At the very least, he thoughtthat I can solve my problem on
(27:11):
my own.
He cannot help me with it, andI think that's a very evolved
point of view, because, if youthink about it, we cannot really
fix anybody else.
We can only fix ourselves.
He knew that if he just let mebe, I will be forced to deal
with my own demons.
Right, and it's not that he was.
(27:33):
He was just abandoning me.
He said that you can live inNew York, the rent's taken care
of.
He was giving me money, he saidif I wanted to do as many
courses and try and figure thisout, there was money for that.
And he got me a dog, a Goldador, which is a golden retriever in
a lab.
He even trained the dog to makesure that he can take care of
(27:53):
me as a therapy dog.
And then he left us and wentaway to Los Angeles.
He would keep checking on me,but I think it's extremely brave
of him to do that because,given my condition, if you met
me back then, I did not evencomb my hair or take a bath on
most days I looked like alunatic.
(28:15):
I was very.
It was like if I was living onthe streets is what you would
think I was.
You know, it was that kind of aexistence.
And then, because he gave me,because he did not want to solve
my problem, he didn't want toput the band-aid I was forced to
deal with my demons on my own.
So my husband goes away.
(28:35):
I'm left in this fancyapartment with a dog and, yes, I
have to step outside and haveto walk this dog because I
didn't want to be at home.
It was absolutely scary to beindoors.
Plus Mowgli, my dog, is anextremely active dog, so if I
did stay with him, he would likestart chewing like he would
(28:58):
start chewing my boots or thefurniture and things like that.
So there was an actualpractical problem which I needed
to solve in terms of taking himout.
And, yes, I start walkingoutside on the streets and then
randomly and this had startedbefore Mowgli came in as well I
would whenever I would gooutside and I was considering
(29:19):
some of the things which he wastalking about, which is taking
on courses, so I had starteddoing some evening classes at
continuing education programsand things like that, and when I
would step outside, evengenerally for a walk, there was
something strange in terms ofhow people had started
approaching me and talking to merandomly on the streets, which
(29:43):
I could not explain very clearly.
But it only took place duringthose two to three years that I
hit that depression and myhusband was away and after that
it did not happen.
Prior to that it did not happen.
And these people would walk upto me.
They would start a conversationwhich could be as bizarre as
(30:07):
what do you do, oh, where areyou from, and things like that,
and then they would startsharing intimate details about
their own personal life, youknow.
So somebody is talking aboutwhat's going on with their wife.
Once there was a person who gotreally emotional because he
looked at my dog and he was likeyour dog looks exactly like my
(30:28):
Roger and I lost my Rogerbecause somebody got into my
house and stole my dog.
And then he explained how, youknow, the person got in, took
his dog, you know, put him in abag and escaped, and the police
were never able to track thatrobber.
There was this other guy whotalked about how he lost all his
weight just by smelling hisshit.
(30:49):
So he would say he would smellhis shit to figure out what he
was putting into his body, right?
So there were these bizarrestories and I'm like, well, why
are people talking to me?
It was almost like I felt therewas this sort of like weird
portal of thoughts that hadopened up and I was like a
psychic, who's you know gotthese powers to make people talk
(31:11):
.
But essentially it would happenon a very frequent basis,
almost every day, where I wouldmeet someone strange and they
would open their hearts to meand I would come back home and I
would write these stories down,which I started recording in my
diary as strangers on thestreet.
So it's very different fromwhat humans of New York did on a
(31:33):
much larger scale.
He went out and he was actuallytrying to create a platform For
me.
I think I felt that thesewhispers from the street were
kind of healing me, were slowlytaking away my pain, because
what started off was I wascompletely isolated and shut off
in this sort of chamber of painand trauma because of my
(31:55):
inability to work, to findexpression for myself as an
intelligent human being, right.
And then the isolation wasbroken by these people who were
just coming and talking to meand slowly I start observing
that these people are showing mea mirror.
They're showing me that ineither sides there are just
(32:16):
human beings, and so while theelection and the politics and
all that craziness was playingon in the media around me, I was
able to see that the regularhuman being on the streets of
America is full of love, is fullof basic humanity, right, full
of the same doubts, highs andlows.
(32:37):
The heartbreak as I am, we'reboth the same.
We could be different races, wecould speak differently, but
we're essentially the same andwe are being pulled apart by
these media houses, by thesepoliticians, by anyone who is
trying to profit off of thebasic needs that human beings
have, right, and we're beingplayed as pawns against each
(32:59):
other, and that is what allowedme to change my perspective.
Audra (33:04):
You tell a story.
You told me a story and wespoke before about the kindness
of strangers book before aboutthe kindness of strangers.
Yeah, and it was this amazingstory about.
It was surrounding your dog andhow your dog on one of these
excursions that you were outwalking your dog, how you got
(33:26):
distracted because you wereupset and your dog got loose and
the kindness of strangers onceagain stepped in and rescued.
Tell us a little bit about thismiraculous event.
Varuni (33:43):
Yes, during that time, my husband and I we were living
in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn andBed-Stuy Brooklyn is where a lot
of African-Americans live andon that day, george Floyd had
happened and it was impactingthe community in a very
significant way and I think Icould feel it.
(34:04):
I could feel the tension in theair and it also impacts you as
an immigrant, because you'relike, if people here, people who
are born here, they areexperiencing something like this
, what could happen to you?
Right, my dog?
(34:33):
I had found some sort ofhealing and because of that, I
had also started talking to alot of homeless people and got
into social work.
So I had started working for aninstitution called the Bowery
Mission, which is an institutionthat works for the homeless,
but they wanted me to come andteach art and creative writing
for their kids and that had, ontop of the experiences on the
streets that had further allowedme to heal and, you know, open
(34:55):
up my heart.
But that day, all the fear andthe trauma that I had
experienced when my husband, youknow, had decided to go away
and leave me alone, that fearcame back again and I was
completely full of this sort oflike, this negative spiral where
I was like I can't do thisanymore.
(35:16):
This is just not possible.
I can't live here and I'mtalking to my husband on the
phone and I'm so distracted thatmy dog, his leash and his
entire harness it came off.
So now he has nothing on hisbody.
Harness it came off, so now hehas nothing on his body.
And we're on.
We're right next to a trafficintersection, which is one of
(35:36):
the major intersections inBed-Stuy, and when that happens
to a dog they become verydisoriented and they will just
run, so they will mimic whateveryou're doing.
So I was frantic and I startedlike screaming.
And I was screaming, I was likecan someone please, can someone
please save my dog?
And because of that energy, mydog didn't know what to do.
(35:57):
First he started running aroundme and then he ran straight
towards traffic which is comingtowards him.
So he's bolting straighttowards traffic and all I can do
is scream.
I'm not even articulate.
There were these four to fiveguys who were watching this
happen from the sidewalk and,without caring for their lives,
(36:18):
they jumped straight into thetraffic and that day either
those people would have they ranafter my dog on, you know, from
different directions, so thatthey could somehow catch him and
(36:39):
he's a big, strong dog.
So he tried to fight them offand the traffic it sort of
started slowing down.
They're seeing that this ishappening.
That does not happen in NewYork City.
They're seeing that this ishappening.
That does not happen in NewYork City.
In New York you just likenobody strangers do show
kindness once in a while, buteveryone it's like each man for
himself, right?
That's the kind of city becauseit's cutthroat, even on the
(37:00):
sidewalks when you're walking.
Nobody gives a damn if there'sdrama playing out, right?
So they didn't have to do that,yet they did, and I saw that it
took a while for them to dragMowgli to the corner.
Somebody figured out where isthe leash, where is the harness.
Somebody else figured out thatI'm still in a state of shock.
(37:22):
So they kind of made sure thatyou know I stopped shaking and
they can give me the dog at atime where he's properly
harnessed and I'm in thepsychological state to actually
carry my puppy back home.
One, that creature, my beautifuldog, who had actually helped me
snap out of my depression, whohad taken me to the streets and
(37:55):
shown me that life was stillpossible without having a job
without too much changing for me, right?
My dog would have been batteredon the streets, right?
If it was not for the kindnessof these men.
So I decided that I need to sitdown and I need to take a, you
know, complete.
I need to look at my life allover again and I decided to make
(38:17):
a list as to everything thathas happened which is good for
me and everything that hashappened which is bad for me as
an immigrant woman.
I literally made a list and inthat list, the good that had
happened to me, that entire list, was way longer than the bad,
and so I was like what are youeven complaining about?
(38:39):
You know that there's so manypeople who have shown up in your
life and who have supported youat different times, at
different junctures.
So why does your brainconstantly try to go and hold on
to the negatives?
And this is what I thinkhappens to any individual.
Any human being, you know,tries to hold on to the tragedy
(39:00):
so that we feel self-important.
That is why, you know,therapists talk about a
gratitude journal, because it'sthe tendency of the human mind
to go towards oh, this did notwork out or that did not work
out.
But even at the end of a reallytough day, even if you're
grateful about one thing thatcan give you hope to carry on.
(39:21):
And as soon as I had that sortof realization, I saw the story
of an artist by the name ofRichard Phillips, and I saw it
almost simultaneously.
It's like this realizationdawns upon me.
And then, on social media, Isee the story of an
African-American man who hadbeen incarcerated for close to
(39:43):
about 46 years for a crime thathe had not committed.
So he was put behind bars bysomebody in his community that
implicated him, and by the timethat somebody actually came
forward and said that I was noteven there.
I don't know this man, richardPhillips, had already spent 46
years for a murder that he didnot commit In order to stay sane
(40:07):
.
During that time, richardPhillips would get up every day
in the morning and he would makea watercolor painting, and that
is what allowed him to carry onfrom one day to the other.
And as I'm listening to thisstory on social media and as I'm
looking at the beautifulexplosion of colors in his
(40:28):
watercolors, which are just verycheap, and he would paint them
and he would hide them so thatthe people in the jail, the
guards.
They could not take away thoselittle moments of freedom or
beauty that he created forhimself.
So as I'm watching the story, Irealize that both richard and I
have two things in common wehave abundance of time and we
(40:52):
have creativity, and I canactually learn from that.
Instead of blaming my husband orblaming circumstances that are
out of my control, if I focus onwhat is in my control, what I
can do is I can write my story.
If I sit down today and startdocumenting everything that I
(41:12):
have been through and, in spiteof everything that I have been
through, how I have allowed myperspective to change around, to
turn around and look at andcelebrate the glimpses of hope
in every day, then perhaps Iwill be able to help anybody
else in my situation.
And I knew there were women likeme who existed, and there are
(41:33):
also other human beings who hadmet on the streets right,
somebody who might have gotcancer, who had met on the
streets right, somebody whomight have got cancer, somebody
who's lost a limb, or somebodywho's been deceived very badly
by a family member, somebodywho's experienced death.
So when we experience suchtragic events and still find a
reason to carry on.
(41:54):
That defines true strength andresilience.
And if I learn from RichardPhillips that I can maximize my
time, then he and I despitebeing in a jail because I
thought I was in a jail, in aprison of sorts I will be
completely free, and that's theday I decided to sit and start
writing my story.
(42:14):
It was actually during thepandemic, when we came back to
New York City, when my husbandhad to go into cases on a daily
basis where he was being exposedto the virus, that I sat and
got very serious about finishingoff my manuscript, which is out
today as Golden Handcuffs.
Audra (42:32):
And this is why I said in the beginning that, even
though your story is one ofdespair, it is also one of hope,
and even though yours is astory of immigration, it is a
story that everybody can relateto, because, even though Richard
Phillips was in a physical jail, how many people are in an
(42:58):
emotional jail?
Yeah, can be in touch with, andwhat you went through that
(43:22):
people can relate to, and howyou came out on the other side
Is what gives people hope, andthat is what I wanted to
highlight today Is that you wentthrough hell.
Yeah, you walked throughliteral hell and somehow picked
(43:45):
up pieces of yourself, becauseyour life was shattered into
pieces.
What you had known to beyourself before could no longer
be yeah, so you had to recreatesomething new.
Yeah, no longer be, yeah, soyou had to recreate something
(44:05):
new.
Yeah, and it's more beautifulthan it was, than what you left
behind.
Yes, and I think that is thelesson, yes, that you are
creating for, as a blueprint forothers to learn from.
Varuni (44:17):
Yes, and and when.
When I did sit down to, youknow, work on my manuscript very
seriously.
It's almost like when you sitdown to actually do that act of
courage, the universe will sendmore challenges your way when
you actually sit down to okay,I'm going to defeat this
challenge.
(44:37):
I'm going to, you know, notallow it to defeat me.
That's when I got pregnant andat the same time this was COVID,
where we had already been goingthrough a lot of, you know,
emotional and psychologicalpressure because a lot of my
husband's beliefs, because ofoverexposure to the virus in New
York City, which at that timewas the center of the epidemic.
(45:00):
They had unfortunately losttheir lives.
So we were against.
You know something that wedidn't know we will survive when
we were able to get past thefirst couple of rough months.
I'm sitting on a daily basissending out chapters to my
editor so that she can try andpiece together this as a story.
But at the end of each day I'mactually scared with whether my
(45:23):
husband will come back alive ornot, whether I'll get COVID or
not.
It's a very strange experience.
But at the same time I had thissort of feeling that if I don't
write the book now, what if Iactually die?
And if I die, this will be thelast thing that I put in print.
So might as well do it todayrather than tomorrow, and so get
the story out now, because youcould die and maybe use that to
(45:47):
propel yourself forward.
So that is what allowed me toget past the writer's block, to
get past all those oh, I'll doit tomorrow which happens to a
lot of creatives.
However, unfortunately, we hadtwo things which happened to a
lot of creatives.
However, unfortunately, we hadtwo things which happened to us.
I got pregnant, which wasbeautiful, which was amazing
because we took a pause.
(46:07):
You know, once the craziness ofCOVID kind of started like
ebbing down.
I got pregnant and we were veryhappy and we wanted to share it
with our family.
But my husband's mothercontracted COVID at the same
time in New Delhi and we foundout that she because COVID, you
know, unmasked a very strangebehavior which was taking place
(46:29):
with her and she wasn't makingany cognitive sense.
And before we knew it, within aweek, we got the brain scans
and realized that she hadcleoblastoma, a brain tumor
which kills a person withinthree to four months, and my
husband, having gone throughhell in the city had to figure
out how he would get his mother,who could die in a couple of
(46:53):
months, from New Delhi to NewYork, and the trauma of you know
.
He was brought up by a singlemom because his father had a
stroke early on and he is alive,but he's completely dependent.
He was completely dependent onhis wife.
That's why he'd become a strokedoctor.
He had to figure out how to, ason an immigrant visa he was not
(47:15):
allowed to leave.
So most of our lawyers they didnot even make it that easy
because they were like if youlose your job, we don't want to
take the responsibility for it.
He still took that risk,brought his dying mother home.
We took care of her, butbecause of the stress of the
situation, we lost our baby.
So we went through all that buthe still did not.
Let me quit on writing my book,and I think that is an important
(47:38):
lesson as well.
When we take on this challengeof trying to defeat any problem
that we face, sometimes we willbe challenged by the universe
with pain that can seem way moredifficult to navigate.
You know, to lose a child andthen to.
He lost his child and he losthis mother, the only person who
(48:01):
brought him up and I physicallyhad to go through that trauma.
Honestly, I thought that when Ihad put myself in lockdown like
self-imposed lockdown I wasbeing trained for this period of
time.
Like, psychologically, I wasbeing trained for it even before
it happened.
So I knew how to survivewithout external stimuli, and I
knew how to completely focus onwhat is absolutely essential,
(48:25):
which, at that point then, wasto take my mother-in-law to her
final days as I finished mymanuscript.
So, yeah, that was the finalchallenge which I had to go
through.
What I will tell you, though, isthat, as people are reading
this book, they could be anyoneLike.
This morning, I met anindividual from Boston.
(48:46):
He is actually an advertisingexecutive.
There's a single mom who's inBrooklyn.
She works in a gym as a trainer, as a physical trainer.
All kinds of people are readingthis book who belong to
different socioeconomic orracial backgrounds in America,
(49:08):
and the one thing that they'retalking about is how they all
can relate to it, how everyonehas golden handcuffs in their
own lives, and how it's soimportant to focus on what we
can control and what we canchange.
Otherwise, life is hard foranyone.
Audra (49:25):
And the other thing is that there's always light at the
end of the tunnel and that weare all just people, and as long
as we remember that and connectwith each other, then we're
okay.
Yes, do you mind sharing withthe audience your light, your
(49:46):
light at the end of the tunnel,what you've shared with me at
the beginning?
Varuni (49:50):
Yes, what I basically also my light was to understand
that when you are being like,when you experience some of
these things, even as animmigrant, you feel that this is
being done specifically to you,that you're being targeted or
everybody is against you.
(50:11):
That is not the case.
Or when someone goes throughany tragedy of any nature, they
feel that the world is againstthem it's me against the world,
but that happens to everyone.
So we all fall down, only tolearn how to build ourselves
back again, brick by brick.
So darkness is not unique toany one individual.
(50:33):
We can choose to remain in thatdarkness, to feel very special
and self-important as tragicheroes.
Yes, we can stay in that funkforever, like I was in that funk
where I was drinking and angryand crazy towards my husband, or
we can let go of that self-pityand think about how I'm going
(50:54):
to start the journey of healing,and my light was essentially
looking at the lives of thoseindividuals who may have far
fewer resources than I had.
I did have food on the table,it's not to be taken for granted
.
I had a beautiful apartment.
I had a husband who cared forme.
These are important things.
(51:15):
If you don't have a person wholoves you.
Life can be so lonely andmeaningless for so many people
here.
This person was willing to doanything to try and solve my
problems.
Yet I was focusing on that onething that did not work out for
me.
That is the light In anyone'slife.
There would be this one thingthat they might be stuck upon.
(51:38):
But if they look at the largerpicture, in that larger picture,
they will also find thatthere's so many people in the
real margins of society, likewhen I went to East Harlem and I
worked in Bowery Mission.
I saw how painful the life of aperson is who cannot even get
proper food on the table fortheir kids, who has to figure
(51:59):
out ways to get their kids offof the streets and send them to
programs which are free andstate-funded so that they don't
get into drugs or crime.
I actually witnessed it.
And so when you don't see thelight in your life, look at the
lives of someone who has no one.
Nothing, which is what I foundamongst the homeless people on
(52:19):
the streets, and some of themwere the kindest people.
So you will be surprised thatpeople who have nothing may have
the biggest and the largestheart.
That was the light that I foundand that we are all the same on
every side of the divide,whether it's racial, political,
economic.
Audra (52:39):
We're all the same, and that's an important lesson to
remember as we go forward.
I am so honored and absolutelyjust humbled that you have
chosen to share your story on myshow.
Thank you, share your story onmy show, thank you.
(53:06):
I am just so thrilled that youshared this with me and that I
get the privilege of sharingyour story with the audience.
Thank you for writing this.
Thank you for turning yourstory into one of hope and not
of despair, and one that is sorelatable regardless of our
circumstances, and it literallygives us a pathway forward.
(53:30):
So thank you, first of all, forwriting it, for being brave
enough to write it, and forspending the time with us today
to tell us a little bit moreabout you and some insight, and
for letting us feel like we'renot alone in this big blue world
of ours.
So thank you for spending thetime with us today.
Varuni (53:53):
Thank you, audra, thank you so much for having me and
giving me this platform.
Audra (53:57):
Thanks, it has been my pleasure, and thank you all for
listening and we'll see youagain next time.
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