The Sunday Panel: How bad does this recent McSkimming development look?

This week on The Sunday Panel, editor and journalist Jo McCarroll and Newstalk ZB host Roman Travers joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!

A damning police watchdog report from last week found numerous failures in how police handled complaints a staff member made against disgraced former deputy Police Commissioner Jevon McSkimming. How bad does this look for the police?

It's been a big week for Te Pāti Māori, with Mariameno Kapa-Kingi and Tākuta Ferris being ousted. Is this a bad look ahead of the election?

The All Blacks got trounced in their latest match against England in Twickenham. What do we make of this? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And we welcome to the session the panel, Jomy Carroll
and Roman Travers. Welcome people, morning, good morning, good to
hear from you.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Joe.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I was going to talk all back to departibari and
disconnecting from work, but of course the textas are saying,
we've got to talk about MC skimming. But at the
same time, we've been talking about MC skimming all week long,
and you always need to shower afterwards. Roman, But this
has been bad for trust and police.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, it really has. And you know, I'm not opposed
to pornography. I'm not that much of a puritanical. But
it's the fact that he was looking at pornography at
work and the level of pornography, and also the way
that the police have tried to make this go away.
My concern is not the machine that will come in
and take care of this and make the public perception
better again. My concern is the woman at the heart

(00:58):
of all of this, who time and time again has
been ignored and deferred, who was forced to some extent
to do something illegal. And I think, you know, well,
what was she supposed to do? And now the police
are going, oh, hang on, that doesn't look very good
and never did.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, that's the thing, Joe. The first time I heard
the story, it took me back to Sholom and ship
them in recards and the way those guys looked after
each other's backs, you know, And I thought.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, this is a hundred percent Andrew, I mean, I
absolutely I remember marching in support of Louise Nicholas and
the absolute miscarriage of justice she faced. And what we
are hearing now with the police are behaving like thugs.
They are harassing legitimate victims, they're engineering convictions.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
I mean, you think to yourself, what has changed? And
you mentioned we're talking about it. You know, we've talked
about it all week. I think we have to keep
talking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
We can't.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
We can't just go, oh, well, hopefully they'll have a
cultural change soon.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
The thinking saying the police failed this woman understates it
to a point of absurdity.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, Well, at what point with Louise Nicol was in
all the work that was done by her trust in
the police college, with her talking to graduating police, at
what point will they start to actually put into action
the very learnings they know to be so important.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Now in a Mixciming has obviously lost his job, but
it looks like Andy cost is losing his job as well,
because part of it was on the public purse as well.
And I see that. Heather c Allen has written an
editorial today and asked the question, was Andy Costa a
bad man or was he a bad cop?

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Joe?

Speaker 4 (02:36):
I mean, that is a hard and almost unanswerable question.
I think, without a doubt, he did not provide the
cultural leadership that was needed. And I think I think
calling the bad man it's a swing I'm not comfortable with.
But you cannot you cannot say you are not part

(03:00):
of the problem, even if you're at the top and
the problem is occurring.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, well everyone's complicit it the top. Oh I didn't
see that email. Well I don't really care if you
saw the email or not. You're part of an organization that,
at some point, over the coffee cups in the corridors,
you would have known about this issue. And even if
your emails are triaged by some secretary, you should be aware.
It's your job and whether it's tacit approval or complicit
or very obvious or not. Things have to change because

(03:26):
if they don't, the public perception of the police at
that level will change.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
There's a reason why the buck stops at the top,
and Chambers is doing a very good job of saying
why buck stops here. So we'll see how this comes out. Meanwhile,
the other big political story right now has been to
Patti Marii, who are spectacularly imploding. First there was a
couple of guys gone, and then in Copra looks like
she's gone, and then Hannah, we don't know what she's doing.

(03:53):
And I see Thomas Cocklin this morning said it looks
like the Malu party now are down to just two
and that's that's the co leaders. So does this, you know,
Roman who does this play into the hands on? Does
this help labor because they might give their Maori seeds back?
Or in fact is this helping the.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Coalition only under MMP who the heck knows? Right, it's
a bizarre thing anyway, But the first MP in the
Mardi sense to have a general electorate was James Carroll
back in eighteen ninety three. Since then, you've had people
like Sir Peter Buck Apparana, Nata, James Carroll, Georgina Bias.
You know, lots and lots of wonderful people who have
been very respected politicians who have flown the banner of

(04:32):
being Maori or with the Maori Party of some sort
or another. What makes me very, very sad is that
these people we're seeing now have disregarded the whole process
that got them to where they are, and they're not
using that opportunity to actually do anything good for Marty
at all. Standing up doing a haker, ripping up a
piece of paper, whatever, what a load of bollocks. You know,

(04:52):
Actually respect the process, respect those who have gone before you,
and do a job that gives your people something worth
talking about.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Has a thing, Joe. The reason we have a Tapati
Mali like Tapati Mali is now is the old Tapati Mali.
The Mardi under Tari Aderituria and Peter Sharples, the electorate
started to feel that they got too close to national,
and they got close to national, which meant that they
could make the Tejuanananga or rtil Rod the university, and
they got stuff over it, they got policy done. Maori

(05:22):
then turned against that because you're too close to national
but km Maori and knowing that nobody in this conversation
is Mari ki Mali say that Tapati Mari have really
actually done anything for their people. When they sit there
and just and do their theatrics.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Well, it's always the tension. I mean, if you are
going to work within the existing system of government, you
do have to work within the existing system of government
in order to achieve things. And you can say that
system of government does not serve Mari, and you can
make really legitimate points about that, but if you are
elected into that system and not prepared to work within it,

(05:59):
it becomes a bit fastical. And I think this is
one of those political dramas that voters hate. You know,
it doesn't matter what the actual argument is about what
the rights and wrongs of it. It just seems to me
from the outside, all this energy is going into this
chaotic and undisciplined infighting, and you want that energy to

(06:20):
go to serving a constituency and delivering to the people
who voted for them.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Meanwhile, Romanda the left, he's jumping up and down I
was going to do the other night, and they're all going, oh,
Marti Mari's gone out great. Now the seats could come
back to Labour, which they should never have left from.
But that's not necessarily any good for Labor, which is
what Peter Dunn said, because if they end out winning
all the Mari seats, fine, but if they haven't increased
their party vote, then all they're going to do is

(06:45):
transfer from List MPs to Mari MPs and they get
no more and therefore it's not a helpful, not a
help for their coalition plans.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, interestingly, when you watch all these current all the
polls that come out telling you where where certain politicians
are and the parties, Labour have actually done very very well,
very very well in the polls by doing absolutely nothing
at all. They haven't done a hakka, ripped nothing up,
but they have introduced a capital gains tax idea, which
is mind blowingly obviously something that needs to happen. But

(07:14):
that's all they've done. And some people thought, oh, that'll
be the death of you, and their ratings go up
even more. So I don't know, Just don't be don't
be doing war dancers in parliament or being outrageously aggrieved
by everything, and you might actually get somewhere in politics.
Just an idea.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I don't know, good stuff fun chat. Are we broken
hearted about the all blacks joke?

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Oh? I mean, I'm going to live with it. I
think you said something before, Andrew that you know, we've
grown up a bit and we don't care about the
all blacks as much. And I think we that Really,
what you're saying is we just don't care about the
all blacks as much.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
No, no, what it could be is that we are
fair weather friends and we love it when they win,
and now we've learned that when they lose, let's support
awk of FC.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin, listen
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