Three in One: A Conversation on the Trinity

In this episode of "Between Sermons," Pastor Brent McQuay and Pastor Asa Slaughter discuss the complex and often misunderstood doctrine of the Trinity. Through a friendly and engaging conversation, they explore what it means to believe in a God who exists as three distinct yet equally divine persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They address common misconceptions and the challenges of understanding this foundational Christian belief, using scriptural evidence and personal experiences to bring clarity to this profound mystery. Join them as they unpack the scriptural roots of the Trinity, discuss its implications for our faith, and navigate the fine line between heresy and truth in an attempt to deepen our understanding of God's nature. Whether you're a theology buff or just curious about Christian doctrines, this episode offers a fresh perspective on a pivotal topic that is central to Christian faith.

If you're looking to get even more out of this podcast episode, check out the full sermon on the same topic on our YouTube channel https://go.clc.tv/ps58

Episode Transcript

Pastor Brent McQuay (00:12):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode
of between sermons where we get to
continue the conversation from our Sunday message.
And we started a brand new series
on the triune gods. We're talking Trinity,
and I get to hang out with
my good friend Pastor Asa. How you
doing, man?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (00:27):
I'm well. How are you?

Pastor Brent McQuay (00:28):
I'm doing fantastic. You know why I'm
doing fantastic? Cause I don't have to
answer anybody's questions today. We don't have
to talk about, like, really challenging, difficult
things. Just, you know, the easy stuff
like the Trinity and all that. But
before we jump in, I have to
ask, you know, why do you love
the deval so much? What is it
about deval that just really. Just your
heart, just so much so that you

(00:50):
wanted to advertise your love for deval
today on the podcast?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (00:53):
Well, Davao, the people. It's all about
the people. The way they perceived us,
the way that they loved us, and
it was just joy. We are joyous
people, and I like joy. And I
was the biggest person on the island,
so I just felt grand. So there
you go.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:11):
Yeah. For those of you who don't
know. So, two things happened today. One,
Asa didn't realize he was gonna be
on the podcast, so he was just
wearing a t shirt randomly. But actually,
it's our friends in the Philippines that
actually edit this podcast for us. So
shout out to Deval, Philippines. What's up?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:29):
What's happening?

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:30):
Yeah. Asa loves you, but so do
I. I just didn't wear the t
shirt today. All right, Asa. So here
we go. We got to jump into.
Oh, man. The Trinity. Why is this
the thing that confuses people? Why is
this the thing that, like, why do
we even need to talk about a
trinity?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:51):
Well, I think we need to talk
about it because it just helps in
your understanding of who God is and
how you relate to God and his
purpose in your life. And so we
need to talk about it for that
reason, for understanding. Why is it confusing?
It's because some things, you just have

(02:11):
to believe by faith. I mean, it's
kind of my thing. If you understood.
If you had to understand everything about
God to be able to know them,
have relationship with them, it wouldn't work.
Because just the basis of our faith,
Jesus dying 2000 years ago for our
sin, we don't understand that. We accept

(02:34):
it by faith. So Trinity is similar
to me.

Pastor Brent McQuay (02:37):
Yeah. So how about we jump out
with the definition of the Trinity and
then we can kind of take it
apart a little bit? Because I think,
while I agree with you, to an
extent. Like, there's some things that we
need to take on faith. I hate
the idea that some people have that
faith is a blindness, that faith is
just. It's without evidence or without. It's
just trust it. Right. Trust it, because

(02:57):
I said so. And I don't think
that there's anything in our. Let me
use the word again, in our faith,
you know, in our walk with God,
that is purely blind. That is 100%.
We're in the dark. No, there's elements
that the scriptures give us that we
put those pieces together. And, yeah, it
can still be confusing because it's a
complicated thing, but there's still. There's evidence

(03:20):
for it, there's scripture for it, but
I want to get into all that.
But our definition of the Trinity is
that we believe in one God who
eternally exists in three distinct persons that
are co equal and co eternal. That's
the Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit. And so I think with that,
though, there's a lot of scriptural evidence

(03:42):
support, there's a lot of things that
we could talk about of. How do
we get to a place where we
have a monotheistic religion that seems to
worship three people? And so if somebody
comes to you and is like, asa,
you're not really monotheistic. You don't really
just worship one God. You actually worship
three. What's your response to them? How
do you. I don't know. Answer that?

(04:02):
Objection.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (04:04):
Well, to me, in order to answer
it, you have to look at the
evidence that the Bible is pretty, you
can see it in so many different
ways. You can see right at creation
that there's a conversation going on there
with more than one person. In the
beginning, it was God and Jesus and
the Holy Spirit. It's pretty evident in
the way that things were worded and

(04:25):
things like that.

Pastor Brent McQuay (04:26):
And specifically, there you're talking about, for
just people that don't know their Bible
very well talks about, let us plural,
make man in our plural image. And
I know that there's some that will
use that and say, well, he's just
talking about the heavenly hosts, but there's
nowhere else in scripture that says that
we were made in the image of
angels.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (04:44):
Right.

Pastor Brent McQuay (04:45):
But there are other passages that say
that we're made in the image of
God. And so I think in that
moment, you've got a singular identity with
a plurality to it. So that leads
us into trinity, but keep going.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (04:57):
So, absolutely, let us make man in
our image. And then you went over
it yesterday, but simply, the baptism was
pretty clear evidence that there was Jesus
and there was God and there was
the holy spirit coming on Jesus. So
you have all three right there. So,
I mean, for me, that's the evidence.
Now, I know some gonna have a

(05:17):
problem just believing the Bible to begin
with, but the evidence to me has
to come from the Bible. But then
I think there's also something to the
experience of, once you see the characteristics
of the Holy Spirit, to lead, guide
and things like that, and having experience
in. And I would say hearing, no,
I won't do quotes, but hearing God

(05:40):
experientially being able to be a Christian
and hear from God and do something
based on what you believe you heard
and kind of live a life that
way, there's some experience that leads to
that truth, that there's Jesus, and then
there's the Holy Spirit, who Jesus said
will be with you forever, to comfort
and to guide and to lead. It's

(06:01):
been plenty of leadings in my life
that have turned out really well. When
I listened and I got to believe
some of those bad times that didn't
turn out well was also me not
listening to the Holy Spirit that we
have with us forever. So, for me,
it's. The Bible says it, but then
there's also evidence that comes with it
once you walk with God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (06:20):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm 100% on board with
you on that. So when it comes
to trying to understand the trinity, so
we are making a huge leap. The
idea of we're finite, trying to understand
the infinite, right? Like, it's like our,
you know, teeny, tiny brains trying to
comprehend the cosmic. Like, that is. That's

(06:41):
a huge task. And so there is
just by nature of what we're attempting
to do. There's going to be confusion.
There's. There's going to be moments where
we just go, man, I don't understand
it. I don't. I don't know how
one is also three, because everything that
I know in life is one plus
one equals two. You know, I've never
had one plus one plus one equal

(07:01):
one, which we actually. There's a song
that we do in kids life. One
plus one plus one equals one. And
every time they sing it, I'm just
like. It hurts my brain for them
to keep saying that song. But it,
like, it is the doctrine of the
Trinity that we find within scripture. And
over the next few weeks, we're going
to unpack the divinity of Jesus, the

(07:21):
divinity of the Holy Spirit. But. But
really, what I love is somebody years
and years and years ago just drew
a simple picture of what this actually
looks like of one essence, three persons.
So they've got a circle in the
center with God, and then they've got
three circles forming kind of a triangle,
and each of those extra circles, so

(07:41):
it's God the Father, God the Son,
God the Holy Spirit. And so each
of those has a line drawn to
the other circles saying, is not. And
then each has a line drawn to
the center where God is saying is.
So Jesus is God the father, is
God the Holy Spirit is God, but

(08:02):
the Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Jesus
is not God the father, God the
Father is not the Holy Spirit. And
that right there, like, it's the doctrine
of the Trinity in a visual representation.
I think the problem is, though, that
people don't want that visual representation. They
want something that they interact with every
day that they can say, oh, it's

(08:22):
just like.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (08:23):
Right.

Pastor Brent McQuay (08:24):
Cause I think we love being able
to say, you know, this thing is
just like this thing, you know, in
the way that this operates. This is
how it operates. And so man has
tried to create analogies for this, and
we were talking a little bit before
the show, and I discovered you had
never heard any of the analogies before.
Asa, do you just not love Jesus?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (08:42):
I love him, but I just. I'm
never listening to the same. To the
same circles you are, apparently.

Pastor Brent McQuay (08:48):
See, and that's. That's what's so, so
fascinating for me, or what I love
is sometimes as a pastor, I can
get kind of in a box of,
like, I'm interacting with others who are
in the apologetics field. And so, like,
the things that I'm studying, the things
I'm listening to, like, sometimes I think
everybody else hears this, too, and so
it's good sometimes for me to be

(09:09):
like, oh, no, that's just a Brent
thing. Brent's just weird.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (09:12):
And it was actually good.

Pastor Brent McQuay (09:13):
Appreciate your affirmation that, yeah, Brent's just
weird.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (09:15):
I went with you, but it was
good because I was thinking that in
the front row, as you was doing
it, I mentioned earlier before this, but
there was clear evidence that some people
had heard some of those things that
you were talking about, because there was
responses, and even right in the front
row, big Joe Mac, shout out to
Joe. He responded, when you brought up,

(09:36):
I think it was the water.

Pastor Brent McQuay (09:37):
I think it was the water one.
Yeah, I noticed his reaction to it.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (09:40):
Yeah. Yeah. So it's not just. It's
not just you. It's some are hearing.
My guesses is there's probably some that
have heard one and maybe two and
maybe three, maybe four, maybe five. I'm
sure we got all of it.

Pastor Brent McQuay (09:51):
Oh, and there's more than just the
five that I listed. There's a bunch
more, actually. I had somebody after the
service ask me about another one. They're
like, well, what about this? And I'm
like, every analogy, everyone.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (10:00):
And I think with some of those
things in the Bible, trying to find
a duplicate in the natural is you
can't duplicate God in the natural. So
that effort is just a, that's a
waste of effort to me from the
beginning. You can't sit here and duplicate
him, creating man's body out of the

(10:22):
dirt.

Pastor Brent McQuay (10:22):
Dust, and his breath.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (10:23):
But scientifically, you can prove that that's
where the body came from and things
like that. So there's science to back
some of the awesome things, or really,
science has to back everything that God
did if they get to that point
where they can. But I say that
to say that it's just not, everything's
not going to be this perfect understanding,
because we're trying to bring God down

(10:45):
to our level, and I don't think
that that's gonna be the case for
everything. And I'm okay with that. I
don't have to know everything, but I
think that there are some things you
should know as a believer or should
have experienced. When I say no, I
mean experiential. Knowing that your faith should
be based around the fact that you've
experienced God. And then that's actually the

(11:07):
word that's used in John 17 when
Jesus talks about eternal life, is to
know God. It's talking about this experience
with God. So you can have an
experience. For instance, I have an experience
on an airplane, but I don't have
experience flying an airplane. So I can
know. I can have an experience, but
not have an experience with everything. And
I think it's the same way with

(11:27):
God. There's an experience that needs to
be had for your faith to be
strong, but you don't have to know
everything. You don't have to experience every
part for it to be strong.

Pastor Brent McQuay (11:36):
Yeah, absolutely. You don't always have to
know exactly how something works in order
to trust in it. Right? Like, I
use my microwave all the time. If
somebody asked me right now, how does
a microwave work? I would say, well,
there's a little plate that spins, and
there's, like a bright light, and there's
electricity involved, and that's as far as
I got. And I don't know, there's

(11:58):
like a mesh lining in the glass.
Too, so that you don't radiate yourself?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (12:02):
Is that what that's for?

Pastor Brent McQuay (12:03):
I don't know. I'm making wild assumptions.
I have no idea how a microwave
works.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (12:06):
Yeah. Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (12:07):
You know what I'm gonna do after
we're done filming this podcast, though? I'm
gonna totally open up YouTube and ask,
how does a microwave work? Because now
I'm curious. But, like, I don't have
to understand the intricacies of every little
thing in order to trust something. But
I think it is a wise endeavor
for us to try and know as
much about God as possible. But here's.
Here's what I love about this, that

(12:29):
maybe people don't talk about enough. If
everything there was to know about God
could be known in a moment, then
what a boring life we live from
that point on. Well, like, just. Even
just this natural life. If I could
just. The first time I read something
in the Bible, I understand everything. The
first time I pray to God, all
of a sudden, I understand him fully.

(12:50):
The rest of my walk with him
is really boring. Even other relationships, we
recognize this. My relationship with my wife.
We've been married for 17 years. I
know my wife better today than I
did when I said I do 17
years ago, and I hope that I
understand her even better 30 years from
now than I do right now. And

(13:11):
this, like, if we expect that from
a human being relationship, how much more
should we expect that from the God
of the universe, the creator of all
things? So, for me, like, I love
the fact that there's mystery to this,
because it means that we all get
to go on this journey of discovering
who God is. But I also love
that he's given us his word scripture,

(13:31):
so that as we discover things, we
can go back and be like, okay,
is this contradicting? Because I think some
people are on this journey to discover
God, but they're doing it outside of
the scriptures, outside of the Bible. And
what you're doing then is you're not
discovering God, you're creating God. You're creating
a God in your own image or
in your best beliefs or thoughts, and
that's man made. Like, I don't want

(13:52):
a man made God. I want the
real deal. Yeah.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (13:55):
And that's my understanding of where we
get a lot of religions that may
be christian, but you start to get
into some crazy avenues, and I think
it's based on, most of the time,
man genuinely seeking God and seeking more.
But once they get something that didn't
really come from God, did they balance

(14:16):
it and weigh it against the truth.
And even with that, you need the
Holy Spirit to enlighten it to you.
So yes, your brain needs to be
a big part of this, but even
with it, you need the Holy Spirit
to kind of give you that. Okay,
this is right. Because we interpret things
a lot of ways and our experiences

(14:38):
and life, we filter so much through
that. We can, both of us, we
can look at the same thing and
we gonna hear it a little different
based on our experiences. And we can
weigh it and balance it with the
Bible. And we could still kinda have
a little bit of a difference of
opinion based on what we're seeing right
there. So it has to be like,

(14:59):
do you get a witness from the
Holy Spirit that that is right? And,
you know, that's kind of what we
have to do with it, I think,
is let that third person of the
Trinity, the Holy Spirit.

Pastor Brent McQuay (15:11):
And then, and then, you know, scripture
even says there's a multitude of wiz,
there's wisdom in a multitude of counselors.
So, like, this is the caution that
I give to people, because I've had
people come to me and be and
say things like, man, I saw something
in the Bible that nobody else has
ever seen before. Like, no, you didn't.
Yeah, because the moment you see something
that nobody else has ever seen before,
then you're making something up. Because, like,

(15:34):
there's a multitude of people that have
been studying this and researching this. And
so if your idea, if it contradicts
what the history of study has shown,
then you're just wrong.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (15:47):
And I think the Bible gives us
all of those checks and balances. I
mean, what you just said was scriptural
about multitude of wisdom. So it gives
us that you should expect that if
God shows you something, he'll be able
to confirm it not only in his
word, but through people also. And that
don't mean don't do it the other
way, don't get it through people, and

(16:08):
then try to make it something. But
if God has given you something, his
word will confirm it. And then he's
smart enough to be able to say,
hey, look, I showed this person that
tour. You come across it watching tv,
or you come across it just surfing
the web. God is smart enough to
give you the different parts of it
that you need for it to be
something that you can say, okay, I'm
a stand on this.

Pastor Brent McQuay (16:29):
And so this idea of the Trinity
does become super important for us, though,
because part of it is, as you
talked about, some of these, like, semi
christian, where it's like pseudo Christian, where
it's like, okay, but Mormons, they love
Jesus. They worship Jesus. So that means
we're good, right? It's like, okay, but
sometimes we attribute something to a name.

(16:51):
So we hear Jesus and we're like,
okay, but the Jesus we're seeing in
scripture and the Jesus they're following are
not the same person. Right. And so
it's actually, it's the doctrine of the
Trinity that helps us create those barriers
to say, okay, if you're outside of
these lines, then you're outside of scripture.
Yeah, because so, like, for more, and

(17:11):
I don't want to get into super
religious debates, but so, like, for Mormons,
their belief is that Jesus is the
elder brother. He's another creation of God,
the first creation of God. And the
taking scripture out of context and misinterpreting
things, you know, because it says in
scripture that Jesus, the first son, the

(17:33):
firstborn, is how it's rephrased. But it
also says that King David was the
firstborn king of Israel and he was
the second king of Israel and he
was what, the 8th born in his
family. So clearly there's a different meaning
behind firstborn than that. So anyways, tangents
that nobody cares about their understanding of
who Jesus is. The doctrine, the Trinity

(17:54):
doctrine and what scripture says about Jesus
contradict. Same thing with Islam. So Muslims
say Jesus is a great prophet. We
honor and respect Jesus. And so people
will be like, see? So they like
Jesus, we like Jesus, we're all good.
It's like, no, because it's not. Not
the same thing at all. And so
the trinity really does help us stay

(18:16):
in line with, with the truth of
scripture that the doctrine of the Trinity,
it is important for us to understand
because it's really easy for a Jehovah
witness to come knocking on your door
and telling you about how much they
love God. And you're like, well, I
love God and they love God. Let
me take their pamphlet. Let me dive
into more of this. And it's like,

(18:36):
no, guys, you've got to understand what
you actually are saying when you say
God. And what they're actually saying when
they say God. And it's actually found
in the doctrine of the Trinity. I
keep coming back to it because that's
where we find the differentiation between Christianity
and pseudo christian or even just completely
non christian religions.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (18:56):
And I think it's interesting because to
come to that conclusion of Jesus being
anything other than the son of God
that was there from the beginning, then
you have to ignore a certain scripture.
Cause as you said, it I'm thinking,
well, first, John one says that in
the beginning was the word, and the
word was God, and the word was
with God, and it's talking about Jesus.
So there's evidence in the Bible to

(19:17):
point you in the right direction all
the time. And whether willingly or unwillingly,
if we miss some of that or
one part of that evidence, you'll find
yourself off in a weird place. And
I think that the ministry of the
Holy Spirit is there to really keep
us on track, but to keep us.

(19:40):
The Bible talks about how we know
things. In part, none of us know
it all perfectly. So there's something that
you don't have right, that the Holy
Spirit will, at some point, can get
through to you to get that right.
Same thing with me. There's something I
ain't got right, and I could be
hearing it, but until the Holy Spirit
kind of says, yeah, that's not right.

(20:02):
So I think there's this correction that
God wants to do in all of
us through the Holy Spirit to get
us all in this place of being
more right. We'll never know it all,
because that's just life. But there's always
this place of growth, and you just
got to be willing to say, well,
dag, I thought that was right for
a really long time, but it's okay,

(20:23):
because if God was judging you based
on that, you'd have a problem to
begin with. But he's the one that
said that we're going to know this
stuff in part, but he's also the
one that says that we have the
Holy Spirit in us to counsel us
and lead us into all truth. So
there's always space and room for the
Holy Spirit to be able to get
us more on track.

Pastor Brent McQuay (20:44):
Yeah, I love the verse that you
just referenced that I read on Sunday
of Paul saying, we see God as,
like, a reflection in a mirror. And
it's not talking about my reflection. What
we're seeing is the. When I look
at myself in a mirror, I'm not
seeing a perfect representation. I'm seeing a
two dimensional representation of me. There may

(21:04):
be something, a scuffle mark on the
mirror. Have you ever had that moment
where, like, you're looking at me and
you're like, man, what is that on
my face? And then you're like, oh,
that's actually the mirror, not me. Right?
Like, so, like, when he talks about
looking a mirror, and, you know, I'd
imagine that, you know, mirror technology has
improved over the years. Like, there's probably
a dinginess. Like, it's not a pure
image that we're seeing, or that he

(21:25):
would have been seeing when he referenced
that. And so this idea that, hey,
we're seeing like, almost like a. A
lack of a full representation of who
God is. And even the fact that
in the Old Testament, when people did
have encounters with God, it was like
Moses had to hide his face. You
can only look at me from behind,
and as my glory passes, then you

(21:46):
can see, because to see the fullness
of God is overwhelming for us. And
so that's the beauty of getting to
know him, is that man we're getting
piece by piece, part by part. And
then one day it's like all the
pieces come together. We see clear as
day, sitting in front of us, and
it's like, wow, God, you're awesome.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (22:06):
And that's the good thing. And you
were talking about it in how, with
your marriage, like, you continue to learn
more and more about your wife as
things goes on. It's just so true.
Like with God. I mean, there's, we'll
never arrive at having it all and
knowing all parts of God, but if
we continue to seek, he continues to

(22:27):
show us more of himself and show
us how to, I guess, see him
in those moments where we need to
see him to be able to react
to life the right way. So the
cool part about it is we go
through this life doing it, and he's
constantly trying to have us see it.
His way, I guess, is the best

(22:48):
way I could put that. And it's
just great because, like, in my parenting,
I may see something and think is
right, and then there's another moment that
could look exactly the same and the
Holy Spirit in me or God can
speak to me and show me what's
right for that moment or show me
how he feels about that. Show me

(23:09):
kind of his big picture approach to
a lot of things. We see things,
such in a here and now type
of space, whereas God is able to
see the end from the beginning, as
the word says. So he's. So it's
almost like it's as much as we
want things to be, this is the
right way. Some things are that way,
but some things are totally based on

(23:29):
the moment in time and what God
wants you to do in that moment.
And I use my kids because my
son, and they're pretty good, but my
son could do something now where the
right thing for me would be to
discipline him and let's just say, to
beat him with a belt, whatever, I'm
just giving an example. And then he
can do that same thing.

Pastor Brent McQuay (23:49):
We're gonna get phone calls now.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (23:50):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (23:50):
Thank you.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (23:51):
He can do that same thing. And
if I'm sensitive to the Holy Spirit,
God could be telling me, give him
a hug and then tell him it's
all good. Talk to him about it
later. You know what I mean? Okay.
So there's always this space for God
to teach you and to mold you
and to show you his heart on
the matter in that moment, because he

(24:11):
knows what's going to be effective in
that moment. So I just love that
about God. And I love that about
just growing with God, reading his word,
and just seeing more of him through
some of the same stuff. Because it's
66 books of the Bible. It hasn't
grown, they ain't added through it. And
there's so much more that you can
get just being in the word and

(24:33):
going through it again. And it's just
an awesome thing, the constant growth with
God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (24:37):
I love it. My dad is in
his seventies. He's read through the Bible
every year of his life since he
was, like, 1516 years old. That man
has read the Bible a lot, and
I still get text messages from him
sometimes where he's like, man, I saw
something in the Bible I never noticed
before.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (24:53):
Right?

Pastor Brent McQuay (24:53):
I'm like, dude, how did you not
notice that 70 something years in? And
then I'll look at what he's talking
about. I'm like, I ain't never seen
that either. I never noticed it. There's
something beautiful about how much we can
learn and grow. We're just always on
this journey and never stop learning more
about this infinite God. So I think
it's a beautiful thing.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (25:12):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (25:12):
All right. Last thing I want to
talk about with the Trinity, and then
we want to move on to God
the father. But so with the trinity,
there are some. Some heresies, some false
teachings that we have to combat, we
have to come against, because when it
comes to following God, you want to
make sure you're following the authentic, real,

(25:33):
genuine, the right God. Right. That you're
not just following something that you're creating
or something that somebody else created, but
something that scripture supports. And so there's
three heresies that we talked about, and
these are probably big words for a
lot of our church members, but I
think it is important for people to
at least hear about this. And that
way, if something comes up or there's

(25:53):
a conversation with somebody, they can go,
wait a minute, not. I don't think
that's right there. And so it's modalism,
partialism, and arianism how familiar with those?
Were you at all? Just not at
all Bible colleges did you wrong?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (26:06):
No, not necessarily. It was big on
getting you to a true place of
a relationship with God. Yeah, yeah, that's,
that was, that was the first two
years. You need to be solid in
your relationship with God. And now go
learn more and grow more and learn
about modalism and martialism and aryanism later.

Pastor Brent McQuay (26:25):
Hey, you learn the words. No, I
agree. I think that, like, even my
training was, it was primarily first and
foremost into practical ministry, practical relationship with
God and, and modalism, impartialism and arianism
is not necessarily part of your practical
walk with God. It's not something that
I expect everybody to be super well

(26:46):
versed in at all. But I do
think it is important for us to
understand theology and understand doctrine. Theology is
a beautiful thing to study. It's the
study of God. Why wouldn't you want
theology? Why wouldn't you want to study
God? Basically, just real quickly, modalism.
The issue there is, it's this idea
that there's one God that manifests, and

(27:07):
there's several denominations out there that still
use that language to describe the trinity.
It's three manifestations. The problem with that
is we don't see three manifestations in
scripture. So that's a man made concept,
not a biblical concept. Because in the
baptism, you've got God speaking from heaven,
you've got Jesus in the water, and
you've got the dove representing the Holy

(27:28):
Spirit coming in between.
And so in that moment, you can't
have modalism, because modalism would say that
God just sometimes puts on the hat
of Jesus, sometimes with the hat of
the Father. But in that moment, all
three of them are interacting. Plus, my
big issue with modalism is actually an
atheistic argument against Christianity, that Jesus was

(27:49):
a schizophrenic. Because you see so many
places in scripture where Jesus is talking
to himself, Jesus is praying to himself.
And it's like somebody put out a
meme one time. It was like, dear
me, you know, help me not do
something mean to me. And it was
like it was supposed to be mocking
a Jesus prayer. The problem is that

(28:10):
is accurate, that's truth if modalism is
real.
But because modalism is not real, when
Jesus is praying to God the father,
those are two separate persons. That's two
people having a conversation. There's also within
the Trinity, and this isn't even about
the modalism thing, but I want to
jump into it real quick within the

(28:31):
Trinity. There's this idea that God is
love, but if there's only one, it's
self love. It's like, it's not this
genuine love. And so, before time began,
God was modeling love in the interaction
between the three persons of the godhead,
of the Trinity. And so it's even
so deep into our doctrine and our

(28:52):
understanding of scripture that it actually affects
all these other things. So we got
to be careful with modalism, which is,
you know, represented by the h two
o analogy, represented by the. The egg.
No, the egg is partialism. What's the
other modalism? Oh, the man. So, sometimes
a man can be a husband, but
he can also be a father.
He can also be a son, but

(29:12):
it's one man. That's a horrible illustration
of the Trinity, because that's not what.
It's not just names. Like, when we
say Jesus, we're not. We're not saying
the same thing as God the father.
Like, it's two separate persons, one God.
And this is why it's confusing. So
that's the issue with modalism. The issue
with partialism is this idea that each

(29:33):
part of the Trinity is a part
of God, not God fully. And so
that would be this weirdness of Jesus
is a third divine. The Father is
a third divine, the Holy Spirit is
a third divine. And when they unite,
when they come together, then it's God.
And that, we just don't see that
in scripture anywhere.
We see the opposite. We see places
where there's a passage that even talks

(29:54):
about Jesus was. How does Paul say
it? It was the fullness of deity
was present in the physical presence of
God, of Jesus. So we've got scripture
that says these people are 100% God.
And then the analogies that people love
to use for partialism is the egg.

(30:17):
And where each one is a part,
like, the. The egg is a yolk
and a shell and a white. But
none of those things is fully the
thing. But in the Trinity, it is.
And then you also have the three
leaf clover, which is, you know, popular
here in Chicago because St. Patrick. Come
on, let's dye the river green.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (30:35):
Is that where St. Patrick. Is he
from here?

Pastor Brent McQuay (30:37):
No. No.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (30:38):
Okay. Because when you were saying that
yesterday, I was confused.

Pastor Brent McQuay (30:40):
He's, like, the patron. He's the patron
saint of Chicago or something. I don't
know what it is, but we're obsessed
with St. Patrick's Day. Like, way more
than other places. Yeah. South side Irish
is dye the river green. Like, I
honestly have no idea why.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (30:53):
Everybody was like that. I didn't know.

Pastor Brent McQuay (30:55):
Yeah, no, it's totally a Chicago thing.
Like, I've, like, I've been, like, when
we're in, like, Texas and stuff, they're
like, St. Patrick's Day. Like, what's wrong
with you? Yeah, like, it's, that's totally,
it's probably in other places, too, but
it's definitely a more prominent in Chicago.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (31:09):
Okay.

Pastor Brent McQuay (31:10):
But he liked the three leaf clover,
you know, people. Beautiful little three leaf
clover. And you got Jesus and God
the father and the Holy Spirit, each
a leaf, but you rip off one
of those leaves, and now it's not
the thing anymore. So that's, that's partialism.
And then Arianism is probably one of
the most dangerous. And Arianism is actually
still really popular today, even. There's a
lot of people that. There's a, there's
a whole group of Aryans that promote

(31:32):
this still. It's just named after the
guy that came up with the idea,
Erinnaeus, I think, was his name. So
arianism, anyways, is this idea that Jesus
is a creation of God, that God
created Jesus for this task, for this
moment, then created the Holy spirit for
this task, for this moment. And that's

(31:53):
actually promoted by mormonism, that's promoted to
a degree by Islam. So there's a
lot of false religions that will actually
use Arianism teaching to demonstrate what's happening
here. And so the illustration for that
is usually the sun in the sky.
So you got the sun is actually
a star and it's heat and it's

(32:13):
light. But heat and light are actually
creations of the star. It's not the
star itself. So that's bad doctrine. That's
bad heresy. Those are things that we
need to avoid. So I just want
to encourage christians, stop using those analogies,
because if somebody takes that analogy too
far, and I get it, like, part
of that analogy of each of those
analogies is great. Like, part of it
is giving us a little bit of

(32:34):
a glimpse of what God is like.
But if you take it to the
next logical step, it falls apart and
it creates bad doctrine for others. So
I just, I don't know. This may
be, you know, my soapbox moment. You
know, Brent. Brent gets way passionate about
things that nobody else is passionate about.
But I want to teach and represent
God accurately. Yeah. And so if I'm

(32:55):
wrong on something, show me in scripture
where I'm wrong.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (32:58):
So, so this is what I think
man might help some people. Please help
us if we talk about, okay, we
believe from, we believe Jesus was there
in the beginning in the Holy Spirit
and not a created being. He's God.
So this is my question to you
to answer for the people. So what
was the need for Jesus in the

(33:20):
flesh? Why couldn't God just. Which he
is God. Why couldn't it just be
God and not just Jesus?

Pastor Brent McQuay (33:27):
Yeah.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (33:28):
They're the same person.

Pastor Brent McQuay (33:29):
So my first answer to that is
ask him. Like. Cause he's sovereign, not
me. Like, he chose how to do
all of this stuff. So, like, that's.
That's a God question, not a Brent
question. My. My pushback on the whole
idea of it wasn't necessary is this
is the system that God himself set
up, that there is sin, and the

(33:51):
remedy for sin is shedding of blood.
And so that's the whole sacrificial system
that was to point to a perfect
solution coming. It was to. There's thousands
of years of animal sacrifices so that
people would recognize sin is bloody, it's
messy, it's costly. There's sacrifice that has

(34:11):
to be made. Something has to die
because of sin. And so for thousands
of years, this is the message over
and over again till the people finally
get it. Sin bad. Yeah. And so
then we need a permanent sacrifice because
an animal's life and all of humanity's
life, they're not equal. Scripture even talks
about that. So if you're going to

(34:32):
have a sacrifice that can pay for
all sin ever committed, that's got to
be a real special sacrifice. So at
that point, it has to be divine,
like, it has to be God to
make that sacrifice. Problem is, God is
spirit doesn't bleed. So if you want
to shed blood for a sacrifice for

(34:53):
all of mankind, you need the Trinity.
You need this idea that God the
Father is the one who passes out
judgment. Jesus the Son is the one
who receives that punishment on our behalf.
Then the Holy Spirit is the one
who sanctifies us, transforms us into God's

(35:14):
likeness, into the likeness of Christ. So
the Trinity is key for our salvation,
because it's within the Trinity that we
find this whole process to even be
possible. And so if you remove. And
that's why I'm really passionate, especially about
Jesus, and we're gonna save some of
that conversation for next week. But Jesus
is so pivotal in this, because if
he's not God, his sacrifice means nothing.

(35:36):
If he's not human, he can't shed
blood. So you have to have a
divine yet human being.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (35:44):
It's crazy. You got to where I
was going exactly. And then, I guess,
to further that. But he was born
of a woman. How is he still
God? And this is me.

Pastor Brent McQuay (35:55):
I know the answer, but I answer
that. That's part of why the virgin
birth is so pivotal to understanding who
Jesus. You're just stepping all over next
week, by the way. I'm sorry. My
bad. But it's good. It's awesome. We'll
talk about it again. So the virgin
birth has to take place because of
that sin nature that's in man. And

(36:16):
so at this point, that means we
can't point to Jesus's dad as being
part of this conversation or part of
this issue. So the virgin birth is.
It's also interesting because in Genesis. What
is it? Chapter six, chapter three. No,
it's before six. In Genesis three, the
sin happens, and God makes this promise

(36:39):
to the woman that her seed will
crush the serpent. The interesting thing is,
in the Bible, seed came from man,
not from woman. So there's always this
from the seed of a man. Everywhere
else but in this one moment, it
says, the seed from the woman, which

(37:01):
sometimes we just naturally translate that to.
Well, it's talking about her egg. But
everywhere else in scripture, the seed of
a person, it was the semen from
a man. It was seed of a
man, not the egg of a woman.
And so when God makes this promise
to Eve that her seed would conquer
this, then we have Mary immaculate Conception

(37:24):
from God. And it's just. I don't
know, it's just a cool way it
all ties together.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (37:31):
Sorry to bring up Jesus.

Pastor Brent McQuay (37:33):
We are way in the weeds of
other things. But it is good. And
it is interesting because the more you
get into apologetics and things, which is
just being able to defend the faith,
which I've got a strong belief that
every Christian needs to be trained in
apologetics, because Paul tells Timothy, always be
prepared in season, out of season to
give an answer for the hope that

(37:54):
you have. And so you don't have
to know everything about everything, but you
do need to have answers for the
hope that you have. And I think
that apologetics is the way we can
articulate those things. So I encourage every
christian, we're going to do a class
in life university in the fall on
apologetics. We're going to answer some of
these tough questions and all of that,
but we need to be able to
defend our faith, to be able to

(38:15):
answer the questions of what we believe
and why we believe it. So that
when we get in conversations with people,
because, like. Like, I wasn't a part
of the conversation, but I witnessed a
conversation where Muslim brought up the Trinity
was talking about, you know, the Trinity
is just so weird. And the way
you guys worship Mary. And I'm thinking,
what does the Trinity have to do
with Mary worship? And then they went

(38:37):
in to explain that there's a, there's
a teaching. And I don't know if
this is true for all Muslims, but
I've seen it since then in several
places where Muslims will teach that Christians
believe in God the Father, Mary the
mother and the Holy Spirit, or. And
then. And Jesus the Son. Sorry. So
they replace. Yeah, they replace the Holy
Spirit with the mother. And so it's

(38:57):
father, mother, son, which I get it.
I get why they make that mistake.
Like, and I think it's. I think
it's actually part of why God set
up this to not be that. So
there wasn't father mother son, but instead
it's father son spirit. And it's like,
okay, so that keeps us from making
it this, like, weird, familiar thing, like
this family dynamic. And so I think

(39:19):
it's important, but when you're talking with
a Muslim and they bring something like
that up, how do you defend your
faith if you don't know the Trinity,
if you don't know it well enough
to say, no, that's actually not what
we believe because that's not what scripture
teaches. And so we always have to
be able to go back to scripture
and our answers.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (39:34):
Yeah, well, that's good. So we're talking
about the father.

Pastor Brent McQuay (39:37):
Yeah. Have we just confused people even
more?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (39:39):
Well, it was funny because in what
you were giving, it's like, okay, so
the father, did he need the son
to make it so that we could
have salvation? And the answer is, yeah,
that's how he chose to do it.
But you needed a body. You need
a bodily representation for these bodies.

Pastor Brent McQuay (39:58):
See, what's really even more fun that
we could totally get into is even
the way you phrase that, you put
the father as superior.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (40:07):
Right?

Pastor Brent McQuay (40:07):
Did the father need. Oh, wait a
minute. No, the father and the son
are equal. And that's. That's another thing
that people are like, well, what about
when Jesus says he submitted to the
father? It's like, okay, yes, but that
is Jesus incarnate.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (40:20):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (40:21):
So that's what we have to make
a distinction about, too, is Jesus for
33 years was different than Jesus for
eternity. Jesus for 33 years. Scripture even
says that he put off his grave.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (40:32):
He.

Pastor Brent McQuay (40:34):
I was about to go somewhere. I'm
not gonna go. But he put off
this grace to become human. He set
aside his deity to a degree. He
set aside his power, his authority in
things. He chose to submit himself to
God. And I wish we had time
to get into all the scriptures to
talk about that, but it's all kinds

(40:55):
of tangents. The doctrine of the Trinity,
it's confusing. Pastors can sit at a
table and be like, man, I don't
know. I don't get it. But that
doesn't mean we just. Cause I think
some people, when they see something challenging,
they just go, I don't know. I'm
never gonna know. It's like, no, study,
learn, grow, read.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (41:16):
And like you said yesterday, it's evidence
of it all throughout the Bible. So
just cause it didn't cap it in
a way that we could probably mentally
grasp it, it's okay. I'm okay with
that. I don't know about anybody else,
but it's okay.

Pastor Brent McQuay (41:30):
All right, we've been talking for a
long time. Let's talk about God the
father. And so I'm curious from your
perspective, because I realize that we've talked
a lot about your relationship with your
mother. We've never talked about your dad
in any. I don't think I've ever
had a conversation with you.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (41:46):
I'm leaving you out, possibly.

Pastor Brent McQuay (41:47):
So I'm curious, how does your relationship
with your father affect when you hear
God the father, how does that, is
there a connection there? Does one kind
of skew the other?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (42:00):
So it's interesting because I've never really
considered it. So my father, Asa Anthony
slaughter the third, so he was a
Vietnam vet, comes back all types of
screwed up PTSD, major drugs, alcohol. So
after three children, my mother decided she
couldn't take that any longer, so she

(42:21):
got a divorce. But as. And I
was very young, I don't know. I
don't know when they got a divorce.
I might have been three or four,
whatever. So from day one, this is
what I remember now, we had a
relationship. But what I remember from day
one being told about my father from
my mother is your father's a great
man. Love him. He's awesome. He went

(42:42):
to the war, came back screwed up,
but he's a great man.

Pastor Brent McQuay (42:44):
Yeah.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (42:45):
Respect them. Love them. So now, so
this is what I was trained from
as long as I can remember to
have this respect and this love for
my father. Regardless of the situations that
he's going.

Pastor Brent McQuay (42:57):
I should say that's a beautiful thing
that your mother did for you.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (42:59):
Yeah, it hundred percent is because our
relationship did not reflect what it could
have been, should have been, based on
the circumstances. I always just loved my
father. Yeah, I mean. And now some
of my actual memories with my father
would be, he'd pick us up and
mark him, and my mother would make

(43:21):
sure he's not drunk before she puts
her three kids in the car. And
before we get back on the expressway
to go to Forest park, where he
lived 35 minutes away, he'd stop at
the liquor store, and the fifth would
be gone before we get back to
Forest park.

Pastor Brent McQuay (43:34):
Wow.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (43:35):
And then we'd make it. Thank God,
by the grace of God. And then
we'd have a wonderful week of hanging
with our dad, and we would come
back. So it was a. It was
interesting, but there's no man. I don't
have anything bad ever to say or
bad feelings about my father. I just

(43:56):
always was under the understanding that great
person destroyed by the war trauma of
the war. So that was the. The
picture that my mother painted. But she
also treated him that way.

Pastor Brent McQuay (44:07):
Yeah.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (44:08):
I mean, I don't know what she
did when I wasn't looking, but I've
never seen her or heard her say
a bad word and not treat him
with love and respect. He eventually got
married again, but in those moments where
that wife couldn't take him and he'd
be on the fritz, because my family
loved him so much, he was always
welcome to our family events, and nothing.
It wasn't like my mother was trying

(44:30):
to break his covenant. He had no.
Wasn't like that at all. But he
was just always welcome because my family
just loved and adored him but understood
the situation. So, anyway. So, yes, that's
why you probably have never heard a
lot about it, is because that was
the deal. But I love my dad.
He died in 2012. But, man, great

(44:51):
relationship. So now how does that affect
me and God? Me and God the
father, I tend to think, and I've
never really even thought about it, Brent,
but I would say this, that I
feel like my relationship with God is

(45:13):
one of. I trust you. Whatever the
answer is, whatever life looks like, I
trust you because you're good. And life
happens, but you're still good. So I
don't know. So I don't know if
that's from how my mother showed us
with my father. That's not necessarily came

(45:35):
from my father, but I think it's
just that relationship that I had with
my father based on how my mother.
My mother was all God like, put
your trust in God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (45:44):
Cause we ain't gonna say it again.
That was a beautiful gift that she
gave to you guys 100%. To be
able to package that so beautifully, so
perfectly, so that you didn't grow up
with resentment or bitterness, and it hurt
it very easily, could have been the
exact opposite. I mean, if all you
heard from her was this alcoholic, abusive,
just this horrible man, you would have

(46:06):
grown up with a completely different image
of your father. And to a degree,
some of it probably wouldn't have even
been an inaccurate image. It just, it
would have definitely skewed you. Wouldn't have
been able to see any of the
good.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (46:18):
And I think that would have affected
my relationship with God. So I think
that, if anything, is the direct correlation
is I got a great idea of
God because my mother kept my father's
situation in. She did it a godly
way. So I think it gave me
a much better perspective of a good
God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (46:38):
So for me, my scenario, and I
want to preface this by saying I
love my father. My dad is amazing.
I love that man. And I think
he was a good father. However, and
I'm gonna say some things, that he's
okay with me saying this out loud.
Cause he says this out loud. I
did grow up with two different versions
of my dad, and I spent the

(47:00):
majority of my childhood with the not
so good version. I spent the last
year or two of high school with
the new version, but that's also the
version that my kids get to grow
up with as their grandfather. And so
my father wasn't abusive or anything like
that. He's a great man, but he
lived until I was probably 1617 year

(47:21):
olds. He lived clearly with a emphasis.
A priority for him was the church.
That the church was the most important
thing to him. Now that got really
complicated for us as a family when
we literally lived in the parking lot
of the church. So, like, right now,
like in our building, the youth side,
the youth side parking lot, there used
to be this blue old farmhouse there.

(47:42):
It was like 10 zero year old
farmhouse. And we lived in that farmhouse
while the first two buildings were here.
So our children's wing and our youth
wing were all those years. It wasn't
until we built the third part of
the building that we finally ended up
moving shortly after. And so literally, it
was like I would come home from
school, dad was at the office, my

(48:04):
mother would put dinner on the table.
My dad would walk in to the
house, sit down, eat dinner, usually not
really even saying much. Like, the kids
are all talking, my mom's talking, but
he's pretty quiet, just eating his food.
He's a fast eater. He would finish
eating his food and he would stand
up and I would literally, you could
see there's a window from our dining
room table to the. To the church.
And you could see him just walk

(48:25):
straight across the parking lot into the
office so that he could meet with
somebody or have a prayer meeting or
work on a sermon or something. And
so, like, I grew up with just
a distant father, and then on top
of that, my mother would utilize my
father as the disciplinarian. So it was
like, just wait till your father comes
home, and then you're getting a whooping.

(48:47):
And, like, the funny part about that
is, like, there was times when it
was, like, I actually preferred, like, the
spankings from my dad, because, one, he's
a gentle, giant kind of a guy.
So, like, half the time, like, we
just go into another room, and he's
like, all right, son, just sit here
for a second. He wouldn't even do
anything.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (49:02):
Screaming. That's why we talk.

Pastor Brent McQuay (49:05):
Just sit there. And then my mother,
she's a counselor and everything, so, like,
getting disciplined by my mother was, like
an hour long conversation. My dad, he's
just like, sit there for a second.
You know, every once in a while,
the belt would come out kind of
stuff. But I did grow up with
this distant dad who is disciplinarian. So
that's the image of my dad, that
he's distant and he's disciplinarian. And I

(49:27):
realized that that's how I was treating
God the Father, that I love the
Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit's what
I interact with regularly. The Holy Spirit's
the one that empowers me and gives
me the ability to do things that
I could never do on my own.
I love the relationship with the Holy
Spirit and myself. Jesus I've always viewed
as, like, he loves me so much

(49:48):
he died for me. It's his sacrifice
that I recognize. So my relationship with
Jesus is fantastic, but I would always
view God the Father as the distant
of the three and as the disciplinarian
of the three. It was God the
Father that was interacting with me the
way my father interacted with me. He's
there, and it's important that he's there,

(50:08):
but he's just kind of in the
background. Or when he shows up, it's
because I did something wrong. And so
I kind of, for years, I would
have this relationship with the Trinity where
it was like, holy Spirit, we're good.
Jesus is my homeboy. This is great.
God the Father, watch out. Like, make
sure you're behaving well. Make sure that
you're not doing anything wrong, which is

(50:29):
funny, because my understanding now is I
get way more correction from the Holy
Spirit than I do from the Father.
And so, like, all of that, I'm
like, I probably had it backwards, but
it did. Like, honestly, as somebody, like,
I've been a Christian my whole life.
Baptized when I was, like, five years
old, filled the Holy Spirit, speaking in
tongues, all that stuff at five. Never
really fully straight away, always been a

(50:50):
part of the church, you know, knucklehead
teenager, committed lots of sins, did a
lot of bad things, repented, and came
back to Jesus every time the youth
ministry did a camp or a missions
trip. Like, I just. I got resaved
every year. But for the most part,
like, I never really drifted away or
strayed away. I was always part of.
But there was still, even within that

(51:10):
context, it was like, God the Father
is the one way out there in
heaven. He's the one that, when I
mess up, is gonna throw a lightning
bolt at me. He's the one that's
bringing judgment. He's the one that I'm
afraid of, right? And then I would
read in the Bible, and it's like,
fear of God. And it's like, yeah,
yeah, I fear the Lord. I fear
what he'll do to me, right. Cause
he's the one that's gonna come home,
take off his belt, and WHOOP my

(51:32):
butt. And so I think that my
relationship with my father affected that image
of God the father. And I don't
even know if maybe there's a co
relation. And so there was a moment,
I said, where my dad realized his
mistake. He realized what he had done.
He actually grieved about it a lot
because my older brother and sister, he
felt like it was too late, but
because I was still in the house,
he's like, I can fix it with

(51:53):
Brent. And so that was the turning
point moment for my dad and for
me in our relationship. And today, we
have an amazing relationship because of that.
And he has a great relationship with
my kids. They love him. So he's
an amazing man. But I do think
that my childhood affected the way I
viewed God.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (52:10):
It's so interesting, because as you're going
through that, I'm thinking about me now
as a father, and how has God
the father and my relationship affected me
and my children? And it's so interesting
that it's so much better than it
probably would be if I didn't have
a relationship with God, because it's. I
literally. I know how good God has

(52:34):
been to me through stuff, and it's
so hard for me to parent my
children without considering how good God has
been to me through my stuff and
how what made the biggest impact on
me through life was me recognizing how
good God has been through to me

(52:54):
and my family through stuff. So when
it comes to parenting my kids, sometimes
I'm like, am I being a pushover
right now or am I loving them?

Pastor Brent McQuay (53:03):
It's a big, soft.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (53:04):
You know what I mean? Like, am
I just giving them love way God
wants me to get him loved, or
am I acting too soft? And I
think the answer is maybe a little
bit of both. But I skew more
toward. I think I'm loving them the
way God would want me to love
them. Because the big picture and the
biggest, the most impactful thing that my
mother gave me was the Holy Spirit

(53:24):
is in you to lead you and
guide you. Just be sensitive to the
Holy Spirit. Because when I'm not there,
he's there. And so it's funny because
I say that to my son is
at the age now where he won't
go hang out with his friends and
stuff like that. And my parting words
usually. And I. And when I said
this early on, one of his first
visits, I had to make sure I

(53:46):
wasn't painting this picture of this God
who you knew God the disciplinarian, because
I said to him as he was
getting out the car, you know, God
is with you. The holy spirit lives
in you. And then the next time
I made sure I said I thought
about the fact, okay, did I say
that to him in a way where
I want him to be scared or

(54:06):
did I want to get it to
him in the way to know that
God loves you?

Pastor Brent McQuay (54:10):
God's always watching, right?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (54:12):
I don't want it to be that.
I want it to be. The Holy
Spirit is with you. So just be
sensitive to that.

Pastor Brent McQuay (54:17):
Yeah, trust him.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (54:18):
Just be sensitive to that. And if
you can be sensitive to that, that
will help you, because you're going to
make decisions, and especially as teenagers, you're
gonna make decisions. You got your parents
voice in your head, but the most
important voice is holy spirit in you.
Nudging you, too. No, don't do that
because I can't think of circumstances that
may come up. But God knows you

(54:39):
about to go hang with your friends.
He knows what's there, what's happening, much
better than I know. I mean, I've
taught you what not to do and
that type of stuff, but God knows
what's going to be.

Pastor Brent McQuay (54:51):
Decisions on your own.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (54:51):
Yeah, you got to make these decisions,
and you need to know that man,
God loves you. He's with you. It's
okay. Amen. So I don't want to
ever paint God that way because he's
good. He loves you, and he's going
to be with him through the foolishness.
Some of the foolishness may make me
mad, but God will be there and
still loving and still drawing and guiding

(55:13):
and leading. So I think that's.

Pastor Brent McQuay (55:15):
I love something you brought up, and
that is the change in you as
you became a father, because that's what
I experienced, too. And I wonder if,
like, every christian dad has that aha
moment. Like, I still remember. I was.
I was a youth pastor at the
time. We were living in South Bend,
had our first kid, Jayden, and I
was. I was up in the Tinley
area at a youth camp that I

(55:37):
was preaching at. And I still remember,
like, teaching those kids. Like, I didn't
know how much God loved me until
I had a kid.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (55:46):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (55:47):
Like, I had my first child, and
all of a sudden, it was like,
God loves me way more than I
ever thought.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (55:52):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (55:53):
Like, way more than I ever imagined
he could love me because at that
point, like, jaden's, like, a couple of
weeks old. Literally, the only thing he
does is poop and cry. Like, that's
all he does. And I would literally
die for him. Like, I would do
anything for him. And it's been two
weeks. Two weeks of screaming to the
point where I can't sleep and two

(56:14):
weeks of the nastiest diapers you've ever
imagined. And all I'm thinking is, I
love this kid.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (56:20):
And you haven't even built this long
relationship with the kid.

Pastor Brent McQuay (56:22):
Just.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (56:23):
You just love him.

Pastor Brent McQuay (56:23):
I just love him. It's like there's.
I don't know, there's a chemical in
your brain. There's a switch that gets
flipped. You become a dad. You look
at your child for the first time,
and you say, that's. That's what love
actually is.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (56:35):
How much I love that nine months
before us.

Pastor Brent McQuay (56:37):
I know, right? So not fair, because
it was, for.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (56:41):
Me, it was like when the baby
came out, I was like, oh, oh,
it changes everything. Yeah, I get it
now.

Pastor Brent McQuay (56:48):
And I think for me, like, understanding,
as much as I love Jaden and
Bennett and Kelsey, God loves them as
his children even more than I do,
because he has a greater capacity for
love. And, like, I can look at
them and genuinely say, there is nothing
that you could do that would make
me love you less. And I can
mean that. But they will push that

(57:08):
line.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (57:08):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (57:09):
They will challenge me. On that with
God, it's not even a challenge. We're
not pushing them, like, the gap between
how much he loves us and how
stupid we can be. It's still miles
and miles and miles.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (57:20):
Truly unconditional.

Pastor Brent McQuay (57:22):
Yeah, 100% truly.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (57:23):
And conditions will make us think.

Pastor Brent McQuay (57:26):
I think.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (57:26):
I don't know if I love this
child right now or not, but, yeah,
it's truly unconditional love.

Pastor Brent McQuay (57:31):
Oh, there's absolutely moments when I look
at my kids and I'm like, I
love you. I don't like you right
now, though. You are teenager way too
hard. You need to just calm it
down.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (57:38):
Yeah, absolutely.

Pastor Brent McQuay (57:39):
But, no, I just. I think there's
something about I love God the father
now. Like, I love that person of
the Trinity in a way that I
never did before, partially because of how
I grew up with my dad, partially
of just not fully understanding him. But
now as a dad, I look at
God the father, and I'm just like.
I'm in awe. I'm amazed. And, you

(58:01):
know, we talked about in the message,
you just put out your arms, you
receive his love. I think that, man,
we don't even have time to get
into it, but, yeah, his provision, his
discipline for us. Man, I hate discipline.
But when I recognize, when I realize
that when God corrects me on something,
it's for my good, like, if he's
disciplining me, it's because, hey, I need
to do something in you. Because if

(58:22):
you just. If I just let you
continue the way you're continuing, then it's
going to be bad for you. It's
going to be bad for the people
around you. It's gonna be bad for
the church. So let me discipline you
now so that you can grow and
learn. And it's not punishment. We've got
to get rid of that whole idea
of, you know, I've talked to so
many people, like, I think God's punishing
me for what I did, and it's
like, he will never do that as

(58:42):
long as you make Jesus lord of
your life. The moment you say, jesus,
I believe in you. Thank you for
dying on the cross. For me, you
are no longer punished for your sins.
There is still consequence to sin, and
there is still disciplinary actions, but it's
never punishment. The discipline is not to
punish you for the sins. That would
be cruelty, and that would be unjust.
Right. If one person commits a crime,

(59:05):
you can't penalize two different people for
it. Right. And so the moment Jesus
dies on the cross for your sins,
God can't punish you twice. Your punishment
has already been given out. He doesn't
have any more for it. For you,
there is going to be consequences to
our sins. So, yeah, sometimes, like, somebody's
like, man, you know, I had sex

(59:25):
and now I'm pregnant. This is God
punishing me. No, it's called a consequence
of. Of the action you partook in.
Right. And then there's times when we're
suffering things, we're going through things, and
it is. It is disciplinary. It is
to discipline us, to teach us, to
train us. That's what discipline is, to
teach and to train. And so we
need to embrace discipline from a loving

(59:47):
father. Now, because he's a loving father,
that discipline is always done with the
right motives of the right heart. I'll
admit there are times when I've disciplined
my kids, and it wasn't right. It
was because I was angry. It was
because they broke something, and it was
out of. It was out of that
frustration. And so my discipline for my
kids was not healthy at times, but
God's always is correct. God's discipline for

(01:00:08):
us. God the father's discipline for us
is always correct. It's always right. So
we just need to embrace it so
good.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:00:14):
And you have to come to that
point as a believer where you actually
believe and just know that, okay, whatever
God has for me is right, and
it's good. So let me just lean
into that and allow him to fix
me. We all need fixing. Allow God
to fix.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:32):
Yeah. From my experience, the more you
fight it, the more you need it.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:00:34):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:35):
So then that's the more you're gonna
get. Like, if you want to get
through this thing quickly, receive it quickly.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:00:40):
Yeah, receive it. Yeah. No, that's really
good. That's really good. That's just part
of my story is that God's goodness
bringing. Leading me back to repentance, that's
how I parent. I remember the goodness
of God leading me to repentance. Not
nothing else, really. So just man getting
a glimpse of God is good and

(01:01:01):
loves you, so love him back. Change
your life to reflect that you love
God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:01:08):
Yep. So. All right. But we can't
close without talking about that last thing
from the. From the message, because that
was the thing that just. Oh, I
was. I was struggling with it, the
honor. The honor part. And I was
struggling not because I don't know how
to give him honor or anything, but
I. It was almost like I was
having, like, a replay of all the
times when it. There wasn't honor.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:01:30):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:01:30):
And. And honestly, I think. I think
for me, you know, so the scripture
of Malachi says, you know, if I'm
your father, where is my honor? That
just, it, the best way I can
describe it. Slapped me across the face,
punched me in the stomach, threw me
down a flight of stairs. Like, it
hits so heavy, so hard. And it's
not that I've been going around, you

(01:01:51):
know, extreme dishonor of God or purposely,
but it was like, it, like I
said, it was just like I had
a replay of all the moments where
it was like I had an opportunity.
I didn't, I didn't do what I
was supposed to do. God told me
to do something and I waited on
it. You know, I hit the snooze
button instead of getting up. And like,
it was like all those little moments.
And I was just thinking about, like,
each of my kids, they have a
job to do at the house. So,

(01:02:12):
like, like, I mowed the lawn the
other day and I was stepping over
dog poop the entire time. Well, Bennett's
job in the house is to pick
up the dog poop in the backyard.
And I'm like, my son hasn't been
doing his job. And then, you know,
Jaden's job is take out the trash.
And last week he forgot to. And
so I'm rushing out there at five
in the morning because I hear the
trash truck coming. And so I'm trying
to do his job for him. And
I was just like, man, why don't

(01:02:32):
these kids do what I tell them
to do? It was like all those
moments coming back in my head of
God the father just going, oh, really?
Is that frustrating when you tell your
kids to do something and they don't?
Yeah, yeah, imagine that. And so I
think that in this relationship, and it,
we honor him. And yes, fear of
the Lord is part of that honor.

(01:02:53):
But fear of the Lord is not
terrible terror. It's not about terror of
him, it's respect. Like a fear of
the Lord is recognizing he's God, not
me. And so I'm going to place
him in the place of honor instead
of myself, that I'm going to recognize
his sovereignty and not try and be
the God of myself. And so we

(01:03:15):
do. We have to give God the
father the honor that is due to
him. It's in his name. It's in
the ten commandments. Honor your father and
mother.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:03:25):
I had never considered God.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:03:28):
Never.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:03:29):
When you said yes, I was like,
yeah, that's a shame.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:03:31):
Oops.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:03:32):
Right? Like, that's really a shame. And
it's. The honor part is truly I
know I go to the scripture a
lot, proverbs three, six. But it's acknowledging
God with everything. Let me honor God
in all your ways. Every little decision
you make, you need to be thinking
about God and like, okay, how should
I do this? Is this lining up
with how God would want me to
do it? And that's, I know it's

(01:03:54):
unattainable, but it puts it in front
of you to think, just let me
honor God and everything that I'm doing,
like, because it's so much surface stuff
that we could get wrong, that he
could just have us get right if
we would honor him in that moment
and say, lord, all right, what should
I do here? Little stuff, big stuff.
Of course we think about the big

(01:04:14):
stuff, but it's, man, we have a
lot less big stuff if we would
honor God in the little stuff from
the beginning and as much as possible,
you know what I mean?

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:04:24):
So I'm adding that to kind of
my prayer times, my devotional times is
in the mornings. I want to focus
on God, I want to honor you
today, and in the evenings, I want
to have a conversation with him, with
the Holy Spirit even, and just say,
has there been a moment today where
I didn't honor you? What was it?
Point it out to me, correct me.
I love David's prayer, you know, search

(01:04:44):
my heart. Oh, God, no, no, my
pray that prayer. Yep. And so I
just, I want to, I want to
be able to go to God and
say, father, have I, have I dishonored
you today? And if I have, I
repent, I'm sorry, and I don't want
to do that tomorrow. So show, show
me what it was. And I would
just encourage everybody listening to the podcast,
like spend time thinking about how much

(01:05:06):
you honor or dishonor God in a
given day. And that honor, a big
part of that honor is obedience. So
have you honored him today?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:05:16):
And that's the part that may make
a lot of people uncomfortable, because it.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:05:19):
Makes me uncomfortable, as you say that.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:05:21):
You'Re thinking about the things that it's
like, ah, do I want to even
give it to God? Do I want
to consider God in this? Do I
want to, do I want to, do
I want to know the answer? You
know what I mean? Do I want
his way in this? It's just, yeah,
you do, you should. It's the best
thing for your livelihood.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:05:41):
I love that God is just like,
I invite you to call me father,
like, I love you so much. That's
the verse that we kept looking at
first, john you know, because of the
love that I've poured out on you,
that I've lavished on you, that you
could be called children of God. He's
like, I invite you to call me
father, but I also told you that

(01:06:01):
you need to honor your father. And
we like to take the one part
and be like, oh, yeah, we got
this relationship. We got. We can call
him dad. And it's like, oh, I
just. My dad just wraps his arms
around me, and it feels good. And
then he's like, okay, and my honor,
right? Like, I'm giving you all that
love. I'm giving you all those provisions.
I'm giving you all this discipline for
your good. I'm doing all this stuff.

(01:06:22):
Where are you doing in return? Where
is my honor?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:06:27):
And it's almost honoring him. It's like
a smack in the face to not
honor God because you're 100% questioning his
goodness and his. That he knows the
end from the beginning. Like, it's such
a smack in the face to not.
But we don't see it as that
heavy of a thing, but it's a
smack in the face. It's like, he,

(01:06:48):
don't you understand? And I'm talking to
myself. This ain't everybody else, but don't
you understand that God has the best
for you?

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:06:56):
Don't you understand, Asa?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:06:58):
I do. But do I always consider
it? That's the question.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:07:03):
So, yeah, that's the one we all
have to wrestle with. All right.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:07:06):
God is good.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:07:07):
Trinity's awesome. God the father's awesome.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:07:09):
God the father. Love it.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:07:10):
This is good times. Next week will
be a much more easy one. We
talk about Jesus. Everybody loves Jesus. Can't
not love Jesus. But, yeah, I think
that a lot of people do have
to work on that relationship with God
the Father, because you can't help but
think about your earthly father. And for
some people, that's great. Some people, that's
not so great. And either way, it's

(01:07:31):
still different. Like, God the father is
different than your earthly dad. But there's
some similarities, there's some qualities. There's some
things that he calls good dads to
do that he models for us. And
so we just need to embrace that.
Yeah.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:07:48):
God the Father, amen.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:07:49):
Let's do it. All right. Thanks for
hanging out with us. We'll be back
next week. Talk about God the son,
Jesus Christ of Nazareth, born of a
virgin. 100% man. 100% God makes him
200%. So this is still a head
scratcher. I don't know how you can
be 200% of anything. That's a whole
lot of percent. I guess we could
say fully God and fully man. I

(01:08:11):
don't know if that makes it any
better. Born of a virgin, died on
the cross for our sins, was raised
to life three days later. Now sits
at the right hand of God the
Father.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:08:21):
How do two people sit next to
each other and they're the same?

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:08:23):
Only if there's distinction. I'm telling you,
the Trinity. The Trinity is all over
the pages of scripture. It's one of
those things where I love it when
people are like, Trinity's not even the
Bible. I'm like, have you read the
Bible?

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:08:34):
I'm gonna go sit next to the
Father and send you, the Holy Spirit,
to be down here.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:08:38):
We're gonna go over here, and we're
gonna send this guy over here. But
they're the same one.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:08:43):
They are.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:08:43):
Trinity's not in the. Come on, man.
All right, we're going to have all
kinds of fun conversations, but we'll see
you there. God bless.

Pastor Asa Slaughter (01:08:49):
God bless. Love you, Philippines.