You Asked For It: Unpacking Essential Christian Doctrine

Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Hey, everybody. And welcome back to another episode of
between sermons where we are continuing the conversation from
Sunday. Now, we're in a series called you asked
for it at our church. And so we're actually
going to split this episode kind of in two
sections. Two parts. We are going to start off
by answering about 17 or so questions that we

(00:32):
have left over. Attempt to answer. Yeah. From our
last week's episode, we answered 70 questions, and there's
still a whole bunch more that we need to
go through. So we're going to do our best
today to answer some of those questions, and then
we're going to have a conversation about the essential
doctrines of Christianity, because that's what we talked about
on Sunday. My esteemed guest, Carlton McCarthy. Yes, good.

(00:57):
Doing good.
It's good to have you back on the show.
Sweet.
I asked our producer who's gonna be on the
show when we talk about doctrine, and she's like,
well, I think obviously it's gonna be Carlton. I
don't know how.
So many questions myself.
Yeah, that's the way we roll. All right, so
are you ready? So these questions I'm gonna ask,
you know, if you're not sure I can give.
I can give answers to. This isn't just the.

(01:18):
Carl.
Yeah, no, we're going to have a.
Conversation, but I'm going to throw the questions at
you first. All right, I'll jump in with my
response as well. So 17 questions. We're going to
jump right in. First question, does outer space exist
with other planets, or is it only the sun
and the moon that was made?
Outer space absolutely exist.

(01:41):
Why? I mean, not why. Why does.
It's the majesty of God's creation, but why.
Why do you believe that space?
I mean, there's so much overwhelming evidence in science
that space exists. Okay. And I think that one
thing that we do as christians is that we
eliminate science and other disciplines like philosophy and science.

(02:03):
Which is straight up foolishness.
Absolutely.
Especially when Christianity actually drove a lot of those
things.
And Paul wrote philosophy himself. So, like, you know,
God created those disciplines for us to better understand
him and his creation, and so we can't throw
it out. I mean, the Bible has so many
references of science and creation. I mean, Job and

(02:24):
David both talk about how God just, he expanded
the heavens. Well, Einstein discovered that with the cosmological
constant, the expanse, the expansion of the universe. So
that's a representation of the Bible explaining or pointing
us to science. So science will tell us that,
yes, planets do exist, stars exist. It's not just

(02:45):
the moon. And the sun and earth, and we
have to read Genesis story almost like poetry, and
not as the explanation of everything that's created. It
is. You know, the timeline is accurate for creation,
for biological creation, when plant matter showed up, when

(03:08):
animals showed up, which came first. Yeah, absolutely. That's
in accurate order. Absolutely. But there's so many other
things in mathematics and science that exists that God
did create, and that if you really did some
deep dive studying in the Bible, you would be
able to find it. But, yes, planets certainly exist.
Absolutely, 100%. I don't know that I need to

(03:29):
add anything to that.
Space time. Man is beautiful.
I think that one of the things that's, um,
misrepresented in Christianity. So it's not Christianity versus science.
Like, every time science makes a beautiful discovery, that
should make christians excited.
Absolutely.
Like, the discoveries in science is pointing back to
how God created this. In fact, you talked about

(03:50):
Einstein. So, like, Einstein's discovery about the expansion of
the universe also meant the inverse was true. So,
like, if it's expanding, it had a beginning.
Absolutely.
And that was, like, a huge problem in the
atheistic world, that they actually wanted to disprove that
the world had a beginning, that the universe had
a beginning, because it leaned towards christian belief. And

(04:13):
christians are going, look, the anthropic theory, we don't
have to fight against the big bang theory.
Absolutely.
It's an explanation of how God did this.
Yes. And he fine tuned it perfectly for our
existence.
Oh, man. Should we get into the whole argument
for the universe now? We're going to save that
for. I'm going to do an apologetics.
Okay. Yeah, maybe I'll have a nerd out on

(04:36):
it.
We'll just have some fun. Cosmology. This is a
good one. Please address the statement that God is
in control of everything.
Wow.
I don't know if that's really a question. It
was a statement. Please address the statement that God
is in control of everything. How do you want
to address that?
Wow. I mean, that's tough, because you look at
God's speech to job, and he asks job, he's

(04:58):
like, can you manage all this and reconcile every
single thing that happens on earth and mercy and
justice perfectly for everything he says? You know, my
concepts and thoughts and the way that I move
and work and operate are so beyond your thinking
that you don't even question what I'm doing. And
so it's like, man. So we look at calamity

(05:21):
and terror and all these things that are happening
in the world, and you say, how could God
be in control, and it's hard to reconcile us
having free will and him being in control of
everything. And so that's sort of a battle there.
Him knowing the end and creating the end is
something that we have to wrestle with as christians.

(05:43):
Yeah, I think the argument comes down to God
can have control of everything, but also not cause
everything.
Right.
And that's the hard thing for believers, is like,
okay, so if somebody gets sick, they're like, oh,
this was God's will. Might not have been like,
because God puts the universe into motion, sin happens.

(06:04):
He takes his hands off of a lot of
stuff now, he still intervenes, he still acts because
he is in control in the sense of, like,
he has all power and all authority. That doesn't
mean that every single thing that takes place is
according to the will of God.
Right.
And that's a hard thing for some christians to
grasp. But, like, there is, we live in a
fallen world. Like, there are consequences to sin. There's

(06:26):
consequences to bad actions, bad ideas, bad thoughts, bad
decisions, all of that. That. Does that mean that
God no longer has power or authority? Not at
all.
Right?
He's just. He's chosen to take his hands off
that situation.
Yeah, absolutely. And then when we give him our
life, he's in control. Yeah, absolutely. And then there's
times where there's divine intervention, where he is absolutely

(06:47):
in control.
And then there's times when, you know, play stupid
games, win stupid prizes. Is that what they say?
Right. I mean, I've done some really dumb stuff
in my life. Was he in control of the
things that I did? No, that was my decision,
and I left his control to do my own
thing. But then I got my life back. Right,
with God, and now he's in control of my
life.
Yeah. And so, you know, the reality is some

(07:10):
people get sick because sickness is a part of
the world, because they're.
Sin in the world. Absolutely.
It's just a consequence. So, like, cancer exists because
it's a fallen world. Like, the world is broken,
and this is the result of that brokenness. Does
that mean that God gives people cancer? No.
Right. But he can use it for his will
and his ways. Absolutely.
Totally agree with that. All right, good. Good stuff.

(07:32):
All right, salvation question. When a person dies at
a young age, where do they go if they
start following the wrong path? For instance, 16 years
old, sudden death from possible opioid use or heart
attack.
So one thing I don't do is try to
measure God's mercy at all, and I don't measure
when he applies that mercy. I would hate to

(07:55):
think that a 16 year old could go to
hell, but I'm not out. You know, I'm not
crazy enough to think that a 16 year old
can't go to hell. You know, we were taught
that there's a point of knowledge or decision making
where you're not under the authority of age of
accountability. Age of accountability. There you go. It's like
twelve or something like that. I'm like, man, when

(08:16):
I was 13, I made some really dumb decisions.
I didn't know anything, what I was doing.
Yeah, I think that age of accountability.
God had mercy on me.
Yeah. It was always such an artist, arbitrary thing.
It was like, who picked that age?
I think Jesus was preaching in the temple as
bar mitzvah when he came.
Yeah. I think it does tie into the jewish
faith of, like, you become an adult at 13.
So if you're not 13. Yeah. Then you're absolved.

(08:36):
Look, the. The reality is there's not really any
answer to that scripturally.
Right.
I mean, the overall answer is, without Jesus, you
go to hell.
Absolutely. Yeah.
But as you said, like, I don't have a
heaven or a hell to put anybody in.
Correct. I can't determine that for somebody.
What happens to that 16 year old? I don't
know.

(08:56):
Okay, I'm 41. Do I struggle with sin? Yes.
Are there times when I'm failing in my life,
man, I pray to God that I don't go
to hell for those times. I know who Jesus
is in my life. He's a part of my
life, and I'm working my butt off to get
to be closer to him and to be more
like him. And so if there's moments in my
life where I fail like that, I hope in

(09:17):
that instant, you know, when he opens up the
sky and calls us home, that I'm not the
one that's left behind. And so I can't apply
God's mercy or justice or judgment on anybody. So
100% it's difficult.
Yep. And so, you know, it's even the argument
that some people have had of, like, well, can't
other religions that are genuine in their faith, like,

(09:37):
they're following their version of God or what they
understand to be God and their knowledge, you know,
how could God send them to hell? And the
answer to that question is, all I can do
is look at scripture, what scripture says. And so
I know that according to scripture, unless you make
Jesus Lord of your life, you do not have
eternal life. But scripture also tells me that our

(09:58):
God is a God of mercy, of grace, or
of justice. And so is this an act of
justice that's on him to arbitrate?
Yeah. Who says that they don't have that opportunity
at any moment in existence? We just simply out
of existence. You don't see? We have. We have
no idea.
Yeah. It's one of those things that we don't
know. But I would never try and bank on,

(10:21):
I guess, getting another chance. So, like, people are
saying, like, the whole deathbed confession, and people take
that for the next step is like, well, what
if? What if, like, you die, and then the
very next moment, you're in heaven and you get
a choice? I mean, sure, that'd be great. There's
nothing in Bible that says you get another choice
after you're dead.
Who's choosing the other direction?

(10:41):
Yeah. And not to harp on Catholics or whatever,
but, like, the purgatory concept, it's not biblical. It's
not in the Bible. The praying for the dead,
like, okay, they were sinful, but they're in purgatory.
They're working it through. And if I pray for
them, if I give money to the church, then
it's gonna absolve their sins. None of that is
biblical. Like, don't. Don't count on those.
There's not a priest in the world that could
determine if you go to heaven or hell.
No, that's between you and Jesus.

(11:02):
Great. Absolutely.
Yeah. All right. I mean, it is. It is.
I just want to acknowledge the fact that it
is heartbreaking anytime a child.
Sure.
You actually had to take your son to a
funeral. Classmate.
Yeah. He was saying car accident. It was terrible.
But the comfort in that is to believe that
he is with our savior. So, yeah, that's it.

(11:25):
All right. Relationship question. If someone wants to end
an emotional rush relationship, what steps should they take?
Oh, wow.
What step would you take in ending an emotional
relationship? So just want to put this out there
that we don't have enough information to. Absolutely correctly,
because emotional relationship. Is that a marriage? Is that

(11:48):
dating that a friend straight for.
They're breaking their marriage because it's emotionally damaging.
Right. We. We don't know. We don't know. We
don't know the nature of the relationship. But if
you're wanting to end an emotional relationship.
Ended.
If that emotional relationship includes a wedding ring, don't.
Unless there's abuse or adultery.

(12:11):
Emotional abuse, too. But you need to see counseling
to make sure that you're on the right path
for that.
But maybe. So we're trying to interpret your question
right now. Maybe an emotional relationship is like a
friendship. It's not a. It's not a romantic relationship.
It could be emotional.
So when I think of emotional relationship.
Maybe we need a girl on the podcast.

(12:32):
Come on. I think I of leading to an
affair because I always tell men to be careful
with relationships that get emotional because that level of
emotion is only reserved for your wife and is
not reserved for your coworker.
So you don't recommend having a work wife?
No, not at all. You should not have a

(12:53):
work wife.
I agree.
You can have coworkers. Sure. Associates. Absolutely. Joint friends
with your wife. Yeah. Emotional relationships, though, are very
damaging and dangerous. Even if you're not married.
Yeah.
Because you're starting to create something there that can

(13:15):
get complexed emotionally. It could build sexual tension. And
if there is not a goal for courting and
marriage dating, then it can be very dangerous. So
if you're in an emotional relationship that you don't
want to be in. Because obviously the question is
probably based on the fact that they need to
end this.
Yeah. They realize it's not the right thing, so.
Right. I think that, you know, one thing out

(13:40):
of courtesy is you tell the other person, you
know, because there could be some things that the
other person may need to work on or do
that could be damaging to all relationships that that
person is in if you. If they're close enough
to do that. But I think you should end
something that's detrimental to yourself no matter what.
So, yeah. What steps should you take? I'm a

(14:01):
rip the band aid off kind of guy. Like
that.
Yeah.
Drag down. Just rip it off. Just so, yeah.
So the steps I would take, I would. I
would go to that person and I would say,
hey, you know, for. For whatever reasons, because we
have so limited information, but for whatever reason, I
just feel like this relationship that we have is
not appropriate. It's not healthy. And so I think

(14:22):
that we need to end it. And then you
end it. So what steps are there to take?
Step one, talk to them. Step two, walk away.
Yeah. Cause whatever it is is hurting you. So
you don't want to continue hurting yourself to preserve
the feelings of another person.
Yeah. Now, you can't apply that to your children.
Like, wanna end this emotional relationship that I have
with my son. No. That's why this is a

(14:44):
hard question to answer without more details. So if.
If whoever asked that question, if you're listening right
now and that didn't help enough, email me and
well, give me some more details and then we
can help you, out. All right, moral question. You
ready for this one? Carlton? Why do Christians dress
immodestly? Tight clothes, short clothing, and revealing clothing. Why

(15:05):
do Christians dress immodestly?
I mean, come on. Why do Christians do anything?
Right? It's the distance you have with Jesus or
allowing the holy spirit to work in your life.
I mean, just because you've come to Christ doesn't
mean that you have successfully gotten rid of all

(15:26):
sin in your life. It is a process. It's
a journey. The focus is getting to Christ and
then letting him and the Holy Spirit work in
your life to remove the things that they don't
see fit. And so modesty, it could be a
journey for somebody. It could be a place that,
because if you haven't been modest all your life

(15:46):
and then you meet Jesus now, the Holy Spirit
needs to work on you, and the Holy Spirit
may or may not be a rip the band
aid off kind of, you know, person. When it
comes to certain things in your life, certain things
need to be processed as a process, as a
journey. So Christians should be modest. Non Christians should
be modest. Our dress code here at CLC is.
Modesty is our policy. And I say, when in

(16:09):
doubt, take it out. So if you're getting dressed
in the morning and you look in the mirror
and you're questioning it, it's probably not right. So
that's our policy. That's how I live. That's how
my wife lives. And I think that everybody should
get to that point. But the Holy Spirit is
working in our lives to, you know, get us
to be more like Christ and changing the things

(16:29):
that we have in our lives. We didn't get
saved perfect. We got saved imperfect, and that's why
we needed salvation. And so it's time for the
Holy Spirit to then to work in our lives.
There's a lot of things that I do in
my life that the Holy Spirit is working me,
working on in me. Modesty is not one of
them, but there's other things. Modesty is just an
outward thing that people see, or lack thereof.

(16:49):
Yeah, I think. I think a couple things that
I would just. Just add to that. Maybe. Maybe
for this christian, they're just unaware, you know, it
could. It could just be a lack of knowledge.
Absolutely.
You know, nobody sat down and told them, hey,
this is how christians were.
The church mothers or shouldn't.
Yeah, exactly. That. That kind of thing. Because I
think, you know, even answering the question, why do
christians dress immodestly? It's probably cultural. It's probably. They

(17:11):
buy the store, the clothes at the same store
they've always bought their clothes at. And it just.
Culture leans towards immodesty.
Go to a warm country. Right. Go to a
country that's in the tropics.
Yeah.
And it's like a different mindset on dress because
of the climate, and they have a different way.
There's tribes in the Amazon that are topless.

(17:32):
Absolutely.
Is that immodest? I mean, from our standpoint, yes.
From theirs, no, I'm not sexual at all. It's
a matter of function for them. Not sexual at
all. But our american minds are.
Yeah. So I would start with, you know, maybe
it's just a lack of understanding. The second thing
that I would say, and this may be just
an interesting pushback, it may be that this person

(17:54):
just judging people that they see at church, but
just because they're at church doesn't make them a
Christian.
So it's also true.
So, you know, just take. Take into account that
not everybody that goes to church is a Christian.
Yeah. And so they. You know, they may not
realize there's.
Different levels of modesty. Some people may not think
that their dress is not modest or.
Yeah, my wife struggles with it because she wants

(18:16):
to be so modest, and yet when she goes
to the store, it's like, I can't buy this.
I can't buy this. I can't buy this. I
can't wear this. Help me find something that's not
gonna.
Yeah.
You know, and so she is very modest. I
appreciate that about her.
Nice.
All right, kids, should christian parents spank their children?
Absolutely.
All the time. When. When necessary.

(18:39):
When necessary and appropriate. Not all the time. You
know, how do we take. Spare the rod, spoil
the child? Like, exactly as it is.
I think, regardless of how you take it. I
mean, the scripture does talk about disciplining children. Even
talks about how God disciplines us.
You know what?
Have you ever gotten a spanking from God?

(18:59):
Absolutely.
100%. Right.
His staff. I rather follow his staff than fill
his rod.
Yeah.
Because sometimes he swings that rod harder than other
times.
I've gotten to have a race banking before, I
guess. Yes. Yes, father.
As long as it's not abuse, it's not habitual,
you're not traumatizing your children. They don't have an

(19:21):
injury, an emotional or mental injury from that trauma.
And it's just a means to let the kid
know that they've done wrong.
And it should never be out of anger. When
you strike a child out of anger, that's not
discipline. That's. You letting out your frustration right on
something or someone that you feel it's appropriate for
you to hit. But, like, if. If your coworker

(19:44):
behaved the same way, would that justify you punching
them in the face? No. Right. So, like, it?
Yes. I think that there's probably too many kids.
My wife and I have talked about this before.
We see some kids sometimes we're like, that kid
needs a spanking.
Yeah.
Like, it. But it's not our kid, so we're
not gonna be the ones to do it. But
it's like, it's clear when there's a kid that

(20:04):
just has not been disciplined right well in their
life.
Now, when your kid experiences fear around you, when
it's like, when he doesn't know the.
That circumstances, it's, like, perceived the wrong side, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. I was spanked as a kid. I turned
out good. We spanked our. Our kids when they're
really young. I don't think we've spanked a kid

(20:25):
in probably five or six years, at least. At
least. We actually kind of stopped doing the spanking
thing because we realized with, like, with Bennett, it
didn't work. Like, my middle child, like, the brick.
He is a brick house. Like, this kid, like,
he could spank me, but, like, no, he just.
He didn't feel like, any kind of, like, regret
or remorse or anything. Like, it was like, you
want to get a spanking for that? And he's

(20:45):
like, sure. That seems like a, you know, equal
trade. Like, I get to do this bad thing
for fun, and all I get is a swat
on the butt. Like, great. So, like, we. We
quickly had to, like, adjust and figure out other.
Other things.
Starts to measure the things he does.
He's like, yeah, that's totally worth us. I can
handle that. Yeah. So should christian parents spank their
children? I think, yes, but with a very strict

(21:08):
limits, parameters, limitations to that. It is not justification
for abuse. All right, this is an interesting question.
Why do mixed or white churches. So I guess
that includes Clc.
Non black churches.
Non black. Why do non black churches say things
like culture or race doesn't matter when racial injustice

(21:31):
is a huge social issue and black latino believers
are impacted by it? So I guess it's not
just the non black churches.
Okay.
Why do mixed or white churches say things like
culture or race doesn't matter.
I don't think that it may be a misinterpretation
of. It doesn't matter. It certainly matters. Yeah, but

(21:55):
does it matter to how we are treated or
treat each other equally if everything is equal, then
you can remove identifications. Yeah, because we're equal. So
I'm black, you're white.
Yeah, I am.
I don't want to be treated.
Had to double check.
I don't want to be treated differently, good or

(22:15):
bad, than you. If we truly have equality. So
if we really have equality, then it doesn't matter
what color we are. It certainly matters. The color
certainly matters to fight against injustice. I think that
that's true. Doctor King says injustice anywhere is a

(22:36):
threat to justice everywhere. So it matters the injustice
that I go through as a black man because
it's a threat to justice everywhere, including justice that
white people have. And so I think it matters
in that sense. But how we treat each other
with equality, it doesn't matter if I'm male, female,
black, white, tall, short, skinny, fat, it just doesn't
matter. We are all equal. We're all children of

(22:57):
God. So I think it's just based on interpretation,
but I think that that's where the church goes
with that. We want to accept all people, and
we want to love them equally as God loves
us. And it doesn't matter if you're black or
white in that sense. But I do think that
race and culture, gender matters when there is injustice.

(23:20):
And you're trying to bring a group of people
or person out of that injustice, because that becomes
a threat to justice everywhere. But in how we
distribute love and how we distribute opportunity, I don't
think it matters what color you are.
Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. I think it's
interesting to me. Why do mixed or white churches
say things like culture, race doesn't matter? Maybe I'm

(23:41):
sheltered, or maybe it's because of ClC. I don't
know that I've ever been in a church that
said culture or race doesn't matter. I will say
that while culture and race does matter, it's not
the most important thing. If a church makes race
the most important thing about that church, they are

(24:02):
no longer a christian church because they've.
Absolutely.
The point of the church is the.
Gospel at that point.
Exactly. And so if we make social issues the
priority of our teaching or the main focal point
of our teaching, we're not teaching the gospel. And
so. Yeah, is it a huge issue? Absolutely. It's

(24:22):
a huge issue that we need to be doing
something about, but that shouldn't be the focus of
every Sunday.
Yeah. It's the same way that the Jews wanted
the messiah to come and overthrow the Romans. Right.
The Jews were people of color that were persecuted,
executed by Romans from Europe and Jesus, they wanted
Jesus to come and say, okay, you're the messiah
that's gonna come and overthrow the roman empire and

(24:45):
be our king. And he's like, I'm sorry, guys,
but that's not my priority right now. My priority
for you all is the salvation of your souls
for eternity.
Yep. And we could solve all of the social
injustice in the world, and people would still be
going to hell without the gospel.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So we make the gospel our priority and where
we can, and when we feel appropriate to address

(25:05):
the social issues, we will, and we do. But
it's just. It's not. It's not the number one
thing.
Absolutely. Yep.
Okay. Hope that helps. Can you distinguish between the
roles of man and woman in marriage and generally
the differences between how God created men and women?
Men and women, different.

(25:27):
What's a woman, Brent?
Female.
Yes. That was the intention of God to begin
with, to make us different, to complement each other
so that we can fuse together and be one.
I mean, that was the intention even when we
had fallen into sin. Our curses are even distinct.

(25:51):
But distinction doesn't mean inequality. It's distinction with equality.
Red and blue are both equally colors, but they're
distinct because one's red and one's blue. And I
think that's where we have a problem with, in
society, that we think that gender roles create inequality
in a home or maybe even in the eyes

(26:11):
of God. But that's not true. It's equality with
distinction. We are different, but we are equally children
of God. And I think that when God told
Adam that he was going to give him a
helper, we talked about this in the life university
class. Is that the hebrew word for helper is
female. It's like the actual word was written to

(26:32):
be female, and so it has to correlate or
agree with the masculine Adam. And so it just
makes sense that God said, this is the man's
role, and then this is the woman's role. But
it's not equality. It's not distinction without equality. It's
with equality. And I think that's where we go

(26:53):
wrong.
Yeah, I think the. So the. There's a. There's
an abuse or there's a danger on either extreme
right. So, like, it's almost like. It's like the
divide between egalitarian and complementarian, which, honestly, sometimes I
feel like I just kind of straddle the two.
Yeah.
Like I stand on either side. Cause, you know,
are we equal? Yes, but there's still differences. Are

(27:15):
the differences mean that we're not equal. No, we're
still equal. So we're both. We're both different and
equal. And so, yeah, so I think, specifically, how
do you distinguish the. The roles for a man
or woman in marriage? I think there's a lot
of cultural norms that come into play there, you
know? Is the. The man still supposed to be
the breadwinner? I mean, maybe.

(27:35):
I don't know. I don't really haven't been the
breadwinner in my house forever.
I would actually love it if my wife was
a millionaire and I just got to kind of
hang out and talk about the Bible and.
But does my wife touch a gas pump? She
will not.
Exactly.
That's saying. That's her. She's like, listen, I don't
do stuff outside. I don't take out the garbage.
I don't pump gas.
I ain't cutting the grass, nothing.

(27:57):
I don't do anything outside. She's like, I'll wash
your clothes.
But, yeah, and so I. Yeah, it's one of
those where. Yeah, I think you find balance.
Yeah.
And everything. I think that there. There is a
level of leadership and authority that should fall on
the man as part of the creation story and
all of that. But when that's abused, that's wrong.

(28:18):
Yeah. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that the wife
has to just be, you know, silent, barefoot and
pregnant.
Yeah. One, you shouldn't lord over those differences over
the other person. And then two, and I find
this as a man, and I say this to
all men, you should be leading your house in
every area. You should be leading in cleaning. You
should be leading in cooking. You should be leading
in raising the children. You should be leading in

(28:39):
a finance.
Leading your household doesn't mean you come home from
work, sit on the couch and drink a beer.
Absolutely. I said, listen, if you don't know how
to cook, start boiling water, and she'll probably come
into the kitchen and say, what are you doing?
Let me show you how this is done. Because
I know that my wife is better at some
things than I am, but that doesn't mean that
I don't lead in those areas. I need to
be leading as a man in the areas of.

(29:01):
As a husband, as a father in those areas
of our home. And my wife will look at
me like I'm crazy. Like, okay, let me just
show you how to do this.
It's called healthy. Healthy balance.
Absolutely. You cook at home all the time. Probably
80% to 90% of the time.
Yeah. I think Sol and I were probably around
50 50. It just kind of depends on the
week. There's some weeks where it's 100% me, 100%

(29:22):
her, but, yeah, we definitely could.
My teenage son is so hungry all the time
that it's just been like, I don't. When I
come home, I don't even go to any other
part of the house but the kitchen.
You just go to the kitchen?
Yeah, yeah.
See, we just equip our kids to be able
to feed themselves as much as possible.
I want to keep my kids.
We just. We just do.
I don't want to burn.
We just do one. Like. But, yeah, no, because

(29:43):
I got it. I got a teenage son and
a almost teenage soccer player. So, like, they're constantly
hungry. Yeah, but we just equip them with things
that they can do on their own.
Yeah.
They come home. So they have lunch at school.
They come home, they have a second lunch. A
little while later, they have a snack, and then
they start asking me, when's dinner? That's usually how
that goes.
Second breakfast, 100% Lord of the Rings.

(30:05):
All right. I don't know if that helped anybody,
but hopefully it did. Think the. The different roles
of men and women in marriage, I think that's
a. Somewhat of a fluid conversation. Sure. I think
have that conversation with your spouse. Find balances. Right.
Like some. You know, my wife may hate something
that she still has to do because I'm not
good at it.
Right.
And vice versa. I don't enjoy taking care of

(30:27):
the yard, but I know she ain't gonna.
So my wife has started paying the bills.
Look at that.
As an accountant, I die inside. But she needs
to learn finances of the. Of the home. You
know, she needs to be able to do that.
And I'm like, I love it that she does

(30:47):
it, but for me, it's like a hobby, a
talent, a skill, a desire of everything.
But I'm sure there's some, like, health related things
in the house where she's like, carlton, stop talking.
Yeah, most.
Let me explain this to you.
Absolutely.
I like it. All right. If something doesn't exercise
the fruit of the spirit, is it even considered

(31:07):
from God? I don't know that I understand that
question. If something. That's my problem.
Most things are from.
Things don't exercise the fruit of the spirit. People
do. So, yeah.
And you could.
You could.
You could not be there where you have self
control, you know, especially if you're new to Christianity
or you just come to your faith and God

(31:28):
is working on you, working in you on some
things. And the Holy Spirit is trying to get
gentleness in you, and it's not there yet. Does
that mean that you're not from God or not
pursuing God? Yeah, I mean, it's a process. It's
a journey.
Yeah. I'm still trying to interpret this question. If
something doesn't exercise the fruit of the spirit, is
it even considered from God? So, like, I guess

(31:50):
if they're saying, so, like, if. If you got
a new job, but there's a lot of. There's
a lack of peace and there's a lack of
joy in that job, was that job actually given
to you from God?
Oh, I see.
Maybe that's that my interpretation.
Yeah.
If something doesn't exercise the fruit of the spirit,
is it even considered from God? And I would

(32:13):
say. I would say it could be. This is
another one of those questions where I would. I
would need a conversation with a person, get. Get
details, figure out what they're really talking about. But
can God cause you to go through something that
isn't very peaceful?
Absolutely, 100% yes.
Can there be something from God that doesn't produce
joy in your life? Absolutely. Like, there's. There's things
that I do that I'm not joyful when I'm

(32:33):
doing it. I'm grateful to God after it's over,
but, yeah. So, yeah, 100%, I think still, using
fruit of the spirit as a. As a gauge
for health of things is great, but I think
that there absolutely can be things from God that
are not.
So everything that's peaceful comes from God and everything
that's not peaceful comes from the devil.
Yeah, I don't think so.

(32:54):
Yeah. That's not right.
Yeah.
Yeah. God creates storms 100%. Yeah. Why is this
person blind? So that God could get the glory.
There it is.
Yeah.
Right. Was it his sins or somebody else's sins?
Raised neither parents his future sins because he was
born blind?
Like, neither.
There's some theology I know.
Right. Such a weird question. Yeah. Is it his

(33:18):
sins that cause him to be blind? He was
blind from birth. What did this kid.
Are we being punished now for our future sins?
Man, he kicked really hard in the womb. All
right. Such a. Yeah. Fun one. All right. How
do you discern whether something is of our own
merit versus God's doing? Did you do it or
did God do it?

(33:38):
I mean, if you did something stupid, it's probably
you. Help me understand.
So. So, yeah, I would say, okay, if it's
something bad, was it something that. So we'll tackle
it that way. So we'll start with something bad,
then we'll do something good. If it's something bad
in your life, was it you're doing or God's
doing?
It depends.

(33:59):
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Was it within your control to do.
Yeah. Is it a consequence of an action you
took?
Right. Or even someone else's action because we have
the ability to hurt each other?
Yeah. Okay.
Right. So if I, you know, smashed your finger,
was that God or was that Carlton? It certainly
wasn't Brent.
That was definitely Carlton.
So the things that happen to you outside of

(34:21):
your control could be God or it could be
the world that we live in. It could be
sin, it could be people, could be. It could
be the attack of the enemy. Dare I say?
Yeah. Yeah. When, when I talk with people about,
like, why do things happen in the world? It's
like, okay, so one, there's God. He could have

(34:43):
orchestrated something. Two, there's an enemy to our faith
that's attacking.
Absolutely.
Trying to do things against arrows at us. Three,
there's the, the aspect of we live just in
broken, fallen world and things happen with that. The
fourth one is there's free will. And so, you
know, sometimes bad things happen because you chose to
do something. Sometimes bad things happen because somebody else

(35:03):
chose to do something.
Yeah.
That guy chooses to shoot up the store that
you're in. You could be shot as a consequence
of that person's free will.
Right. The guy shoot you?
No.
Right.
And did the devil shoot you? I mean, not
exactly. I mean, he might have been involved in
that man's decision to, you know. But I don't
think the devil's behind every bad action.

(35:23):
Right.
I think that we're just broken. We're falling.
Give a lot of authority and power to the
devil.
Yeah. One thing that christians need to remember is
that the devil's not omniscient or omnipresent.
Absolutely.
Right. So, like, if the devil's causing you to
do something, that means he's not doing anything anywhere
else in the world.
He must be really important.
Gotta be so important. So, but sometimes we, we

(35:45):
attribute qualities that God has to the devil.
Right.
We shouldn't do that. That's not biblical. All right,
and then, so the good side. So something good
happens in Carlton.
Yeah.
Was that God or.
Totally Carlton, the same man. It's, you know, you
could, I never want to call it luck or

(36:07):
anything, but you can fall on circumstances or consequences
that benefit you. You could also do things that
are. Creates an attribute in you that benefits you
somehow. You know, I went to college and got
a degree in accounting, and I work at ClC.
Certainly the Holy Spirit helped me through that, but
those are decisions that I make. I picked my
career. You know, I imagine God had a hand

(36:28):
in that as well. But the good things that
happen to me, you know, I can create good
things. You know, I go to the gym, I'm
losing weight, working out. Okay, that's good. But there's
some things that happen in my life that I
have no explanation for. And I know that it
came from God. Absolutely. And it could be small
things and it could be large things. I have
so many testimonies, even this year, of my wife

(36:50):
and I looking at each other and saying that
was God. No way that that happened in that
way. Consequences, circumstances, you couldn't predict that or come
up with that on your own. Like, that was
totally the hand of God, and we believe it.
And then the holy spirit gives us confirmation of
peace in our hearts, or it's related to something
that we're going through. And so we know that

(37:12):
certain things that are good come from God.
Yeah. So somebody asked me a question via email
about tithing from their business and whether or not
they needed to do that or not. And I
told them, you know, biblically speaking, doesn't tell us
to tithe from a business. So, you know, that
really is a personal decision or personal choice at
that point. And then I went on to tell
them, like, I know some christians that have tithes

(37:33):
from their business and their Christ, their. Their business
was blessed afterwards. Now, did that blessing come because
they tithed, or did that blessing come because they're
really good at their job. Like, right. There's good
business practice.
Absolutely.
And honestly, even as a pastor, I can't tell
you which one it was. And so I guess,
like, for me, like, I guess the thing I

(37:54):
can equate it to is when. When I finish
preaching and somebody comes up and says, man, that
was such an amazing sermon. It really touched me.
Okay. How much of that was the Holy Spirit?
Right.
How much of that was Brent putting in study
and effort in honing the craft?
Yeah.
And I don't know what the percentages are, but
I think it falls on both. Both entities and
that, like, so I think there's some of it
that. Yeah, it's because I put a lot of

(38:16):
effort into that. It's a craft that I'm practicing
and developing and learning. I did research. I did
study. I put all that together. But if I
did all of that without the Holy Spirit, it
wouldn't have been a good sermon.
Right.
Absolutely. And if I got up there with no
practice, no. No notes, know anything at all, and
just stood there and said, okay, holy spirit, do
something, I mean, maybe that would be a good

(38:39):
service.
He's like, I was trying to.
Yeah. He's like, I was waiting for you. So,
like, it's. Yeah, it's both. And. And I don't
know that you. I don't know that you can
100% ever. I shouldn't say that. I was about
to say, I don't know that you can ever
100% know whether it was God or you.
But God's grace is unmerited.
Well, like, the house that Saul and I are
in right now, like, we 100% attribute that to
God. Like, the circumstances of how we got that

(39:01):
house, when we got that house, the price of
that house, all of it. Like, we look at
that, and we're like, dude, that was God. Like,
we didn't have anything to do with this. So
I guess, you know, sometimes you just know.
I mean, Joel being restored.
Yeah.
It doesn't say. It doesn't give an explanation. It
just says how that took place.
Yeah.
God just gave him everything that he lost.
Yeah. Yeah.
He didn't tide or so a seed. He even

(39:23):
gets scolded for questioning God. So it's like, okay,
God's favor is unmerited.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm always curious, how did that actually take,
like, did it just magically appear everything was there,
or was it.
Like, over time, my imagination? Imagine.
Interesting question. All right. How do you encourage someone
going through a serious health crisis? How do you

(39:46):
encourage someone going through a serious health crisis?
Yeah, that's a. I think the Holy Spirit had
to work on me with this. Not a health
crisis or anything, but when you are going through
difficult times in life, you know, I kind of
view God in a different way. I view, you

(40:06):
know, I don't know how to say this. Like,
I praise the mercy of God, but also look
for his justice. And I say that, you know,
sometimes we go through things in life that are
hard. We even die. We go through sickness and
disease and terminal illness, and a lot of people

(40:27):
die. Our loved ones die. We die. And does
that mean that God is not good? And so
when bad things happen to me, to Carlton, I
say, you know, God's still good. So, you know,
if this thing continues in this direction, I'm still
going to worship and praise him. And then the
Holy Spirit had to say, but, you know, if
you pray to me to come out of this,

(40:49):
I'm here for you to help you. Like, the
end doesn't have to be death. Or you continue
in this struggle because you believe that I'm still
good. No matter what you go through, you still
come to me and you pray to me for
the things, for the hard things in life and
watch my hand in your life and let that
be my decision whether you continue through this, on

(41:11):
this path of struggle or not. And so I've
been learning now to change my prayers. Now I'm
praying for God's blessing on my life and God's
mercy and for healing and that kind of thing.
You can just not read before that moment. You
have not because you ask not.
Yes, and I know the story of the widow
and the unjust judge, and I know these things,
but, you know, the application. Sometimes I pride myself

(41:34):
on a different kind of God and how he
operates.
But I think a lot of times it's easier
to, I don't know, have faith for other people.
Yeah.
Than for yourself. And it's not even faith is
the wrong word for this, and I don't know
the right word for it. But just this idea
that it's like, you know, when it comes to
other people, I want to be encouraging. I want
to give them hope and everything. When something's happening

(41:56):
to me, it's just like, okay, grit your teeth
and bear it.
Right?
Like, I think we have a very similar kind
of approach. Even the. For both of us, it's
like, look, this. This life is nothing. Like, if
I die of cancer tomorrow, I'm with Jesus.
Yes. I'm almost to the point where it's like,
well, it really doesn't matter. I could be homeless.
I could be sick. I could be.

(42:16):
And that was Paul's approach.
And it was just like, man is God good.
This life is temporary. Like, to die is gain.
Like, come on, let's. Let's get out of here.
So, like. So, like, one thing that I've randomly
thought about, which is super dark and twisted and
weird, but I've thought about it. Oh, how long?
So let's say you died tomorrow. You never get

(42:37):
to see Spencer get married or have a kid.
You never get to hold a grandchild.
Sure.
How long would you regret that in the presence
of God?
Not even a nanosecond.
Right. That's for me. I feel like I would
regret it on this side. Oh, man. I want
to be there to see these things.
There's nothing on earth or that will be on

(42:58):
earth that is greater than being in the presence
of God. The only thing that is comes close
is doing God's work. And that's why we're here.
Being in his will, doing his work, that's the
only thing that I can see would constitute my
thoughts of being here on earth, is to continue
doing his will. Outside of that, Spencer, getting married,

(43:20):
having grandchildren, whatever. Retiring with my wife on the
beach somewhere. Nothing compares to the presence of God.
Yeah, I don't want to die tomorrow because there's
a lot of things that I would like to.
Sure. Absolutely.
And accomplish, but if I were to die tomorrow,
I'm. You don't have regrets in the afterlife.
If you're with Jesus, even so, come, Lord Jesus.

(43:42):
Come on now. Yeah, yeah.
But Charles Spurgeon, I've been reading a lot of
his material, said that, you know, it's hard for
us to believe, for God to do something for
us. But if we can believe that he can
forgive us of our sins, why can't we believe
that he can heal us from an illness that's
good? Like when Jesus healed the paralyzed man, he

(44:05):
looked at the Pharisees and said, which one is
harder? How about I do both? So we could
believe that God could do one.
Such a show off. Jesus, Jesus the best.
If we believe that God can do one, certainly
he can do the other 100%.
So, yeah. So how do you encourage someone going
through a serious health crisis? I think you be
there for them. You sit with them, you take

(44:25):
care of any needs that they have that you
can. If they're going through a health crisis, they
may need somebody to clean the house. They may
need somebody to take care of the dog or
the kids, or they may need somebody to make
a meal. So do those things, do the things
that you can show that you care, even just
sit with them, hold their hand, whatever. Pray for
them. Because we do believe that there is healing

(44:46):
in God, that he still works miracles today. And
whether the healing comes or the healing doesn't come,
we're still trusting in him. And that healing will
come eventually. In the second life in heaven. To
encourage them, I would give them scriptures that talk
about God's faithfulness and his love and his mercy

(45:07):
and his grace. Yeah.
So, yeah, you share them. You share in the
goodness of God and that goodness can be applied
now.
Yeah, there's a lot that you can do to
encourage somebody in that. Sweet, look at this. We
only got like five more questions.
Wow.
Why is it that some people seem to be
more blessed than others and some have a tougher

(45:29):
life than others? I feel like we've kind of
already answered this question in answering some of the
others, because, like, it's gonna come down to the
world just like it exists. Like, okay.
Yeah.
It's like a good and bad. Yeah.
Yeah. It's just.
Yeah.
What happens.
Yeah. And you can do all the right things,

(45:51):
and somebody else can be doing all the wrong
things, and you'll still see more blessings on their
life. Does that mean those blessings came from God?
Not necessarily. Yeah, it could, too, because, look, our
God is a God of grace, which means you're
getting things you don't deserve, so. Right, like, there's
blessings that I have in my life that I'm
like, I didn't deserve that.
Right, right.
So I think. Yeah. And I think, you know,

(46:11):
some people do. Like, so being born in the
United States of America, you're already more blessed than
somebody that's born in, man.
Then, like, 95% of the world.
Yeah. A lot of places for sure. And so,
like, right there, you've got more blessing. And so
I think a lot of times, the blessing and
the tougher life is a matter of perspective that,

(46:34):
you know, you're looking at somebody. You know, you're
looking at somebody else that's got, like, a million
dollars, and you're like, man, all I have is
a. Somebody's looking at you like, man, you got
a $1,000.
All I got is us dollars.
Right. Somebody else is looking at me like, you
got a. Got $0. Like, you know, and so
the blessings are different. And, you know, somebody may
be blessed in one area and feel like they

(46:55):
have a tougher time in another area. Right. Like,
they're. They may have all the money and a
great job, but they have no marriage or their
marriage.
There's people that are living a different life than
we're living in a different country, and they find
themselves being tremendously blessed.
Yeah. Go on a missions trip.
Yeah. And you will be shocked about how the
people view their life and how blessed they are

(47:17):
and how God has blessed them. And you look
at and you say, I could not live that
life that they're living, but they wouldn't live any
other way.
Yeah. I think it was Eric and Megan Condon
who used to be members here. They had this
experience where they. I think it was the two
of them. They went on a mission trip. They
gave some kids a piece of candy, and they
watched as, like, they had plenty of it, but

(47:37):
they watched because they gave it to one kid,
and they watched as that kid brought that piece
of candy back to a couple other kids and
then, like, took a rock and, like, broke the
candy into pieces so that each kid could have
a piece. And then they were teaching in kids
life and with our us american kids, and they
gave a kid a piece of candy, and the
kid was like, can't I have any more? Like,
they only gave me one. Like, they were ungrateful

(47:57):
for the one piece of candy where in another
country that kid was like, oh, my God, I
have candy that I can share with others. Like,
they. The blessings and the tougher life. It's such
a matter of perspective.
It is, because I think that we get spoiled
with the lifestyle that we have, and then that
can become a curse in our life.
So I think my approach is, I always want
to be grateful for the blessings that I have

(48:18):
more than I'm wishing for envying the blessings that
other people have. I don't want to compare my
life to anyone else's because it's never gonna end
up good.
Right.
Even though there's people that could compare my life
to and all of a sudden have pity on
them, it's like, oh, man, my life is so
much better. I think it's unhealthy in both directions.
Yeah.

(48:39):
So, like, don't compare. Just live your life right.
Be grateful for the blessings when tough things come
along, figure out, okay, is there a lesson I'm
supposed to learn in this? Is there something that
I did that caused this, that I need to
not do in the future so I don't end
up back in this situation? Why is my life
tough? Is my life touch tough because I'm lazy
and I'm not working like I should? Is my

(49:00):
life tough because I keep getting into relationships that
I shouldn't be in? Like, what is. What is
tough about my life and how can I correct
it?
Right.
And then be grateful for the blessings you do
have.
Nice.
How do we incorporate God centered values? Leadership at
work?
I guess it depends on if you are leadership
and you can create or cultivate the culture that's

(49:22):
there. But if you're not in leadership, because if
you are in leadership, it's pretty easy to do.
So I think. Yeah, I want to let you
keep talking, but I want to just say that
it's possible to incorporate God centered values at work.
In either case, when you are in leadership, you

(49:44):
can incorporate those for everyone.
Yes, you have.
When you're not in leadership, you incorporate that in
how you work.
Right, right.
So, like, the God centered values should always be
present. Present in wherever you are. Wherever you are,
yes. And the more authority you have or the
more freedom, you have to implement those things, the
more you can incorporate that for others. And it

(50:05):
may be that you're in leadership over these ten
people, and. But you've got five bosses above you,
and they're like, yeah, no, leave that God stuff
out of here.
Right.
It may be that you're the owner of the
corporation and you can be like, hey, we're gonna
start every day with a prayer.
Right? Yeah. And then what? You know, if there's
discrimination of religion and always say it's freedom of
religion and not freedom from religion, I think a

(50:26):
lot of places get that wrong. Like, you have
the freedom to practice your religion.
You can't enforce it on somebody.
You certainly don't want it.
If you're like, hey, we're gonna start the day
with prayer. And somebody's like, yeah, I really don't
want to do that. You. You can't be like,
well, too bad, right?
But you can certainly have influence in the value
in those values, those God, you know, those attributes
that the holy spirit is giving you and those
values that you have. You can influence people in

(50:48):
that way. And if you're not in leadership, you
know, the. The attributes of the Holy Spirit are
evident. Like, it could be seen a mile away
if you're practicing them appropriately. And it's like, other
people will see that in you and say, man,
you're different. Or, you know, you don't act like
the rest of the folks. And, you know, it
could talk to people. It could touch people's heart.
You don't know where people are in their faith

(51:10):
walk, where. How the Holy Spirit is working in
them or dealing with them. And all they need
to do is see the love of Jesus and
someone else that could change their life. And I
think that's where you have influence.
Yeah, 100%. One thing I love. So we have
a member of the church who's a doctor, but
he's like the head of his department apartment, and

(51:31):
he keeps a bible on the edge of his
desk. So anybody that comes into his office is
going to see that Bible. Now, he's not shoving
it down their throats, he's not hitting him with
it or anything, but he's incorporated that into his,
just his office layout so that people will recognize,
okay, he takes God's word seriously. So if I
have a question or if I need something, I
can come to him.
Right.
And I think there's other subtle ways that you

(51:52):
can do that when maybe the place that you're
in, even if you're in leadership, it's not appropriate
for you to be, you know, overtly. But God.
I mean, God center values is treating people with
kindness and love and mercy. I mean, you can
do that, and.
Usually in a corporate setting, you're turning down a
lot of worldliness and different types of corruption and

(52:13):
conduct where people can see the godliness that's inside
of you, because it's like, okay, man, this person's
not going to the after hour happy hour.
It does not take a lot of light to
make a difference in a pitch black room.
Yes, exactly right. And so it becomes really evident
soon.
There's this little light on yourself from those things.

(52:34):
There's a little light on the edge of my
bed because there's, like, this electrical thing, part of
the bed frame, and there's. It's like the most
dull light. Barely even recognize it during the daytime
or when the lights are on in the middle
of the night when the rest of the room
is pitch black, that tiny little light.
It's annoying, man.
Like, why is that so? It's like, yeah, like,

(52:55):
it. You don't need a lot.
Yeah.
There's just a little bit of light that goes
a long way in darkness.
Yeah.
Random, but it's pretty good. Okay, I like this
question. I read this one earlier because it's really
long. And so when I put it in, I
was like, it's like five times as long as
the others. So, like, I'm not gonna read the
whole thing just because it is very long. But
the question essentially is, how can we be like

(53:17):
Jesus? Because we just sent finish the series called
be like Jesus if he was God in human
flesh. It seems like an impossible task since Jesus
was not like us. So how can we be
like Jesus if Jesus is God as much as.
We can, and we are more like Jesus than
we think. And, okay, we don't have the deity

(53:39):
that Jesus has, but he has given us his
deity. He's given us the Holy Spirit. So we
are human, and so we're not 100% human and
100% God like he was. But we're 100% human,
and we have 100% God, and so that's the
thing that keeps us working in us and through

(53:59):
us. Yes. And as long as we have the
Holy Spirit with us, we can pursue being like
Christ. We are not 100% Jesus by any stretch
of the imagination, nor will we ever be 100%
like Christmas. But the pursuits of being like him
is what we need to focus on. And we

(54:19):
can get really close in that pursuit. When we
have the Holy Spirit, we're 100% human, and we
are not 100% God, but we have 100% God
with us.
Yeah, yeah. I think that the beauty of this
is, how can you be like Jesus if he
was God and I'm not, is the fact that
Jesus showed you how. He tells you how to.

(54:40):
To follow him as practical as possible.
He didn't say, listen, this is how you create
a universe. He says, this is how you love
your neighbor.
Exactly. And so we follow his teachings because in
his teachings, we're becoming more like him. And then
you rely on the Holy Spirit. We go as
far as we possibly can, and the Holy Spirit
brings us the rest of the way. And as

(55:01):
we talked about in that series, this is the
christian life. You don't become 100% like Jesus ever.
Like, you die having not reached that goal.
Right.
But you keep. You keep trying.
Yeah, it's pursuing that goal.
That little bit closer. A little bit closer. So,
yeah, so you can do it because he told

(55:22):
you to. He showed you how, and he gave
you the Holy Spirit to help.
And when the father sees us, he doesn't see
us. He sees the blood of his son. It
covers us. He sees his son in us.
Yeah. They did have all the way at the
end of the question, under the set of circumstances
they had gone through about him not being human,

(55:43):
it becomes hard to relate to Jesus when the
only thing we can relate to him with is
that he had human flesh. I think it's more
than that. I think that's probably a misunderstanding. Jesus
grieved with people. Jesus was tempted by sin. Like,
it just because he was God didn't mean that
those things were.
He struggled with the will of God.

(56:04):
Yeah. He was having so much anxiety. He was
sweating blood.
Yeah.
Like, the fact that he was 100% God did
not negate from the fact, cuz, because that theology
would mean that he was only 100% God, but
just with, like, a skin on. Yeah, that's not
what we believe.
Right.
We believe 100% God.
Yeah.
Which means the power, the wisdom, the knowledge, all
of that. Just like God, but also 100% man,

(56:27):
which is all of the struggles, all.
Of the deal with temptation, betrayal of his friends,
denying him, selling him out.
Yep. And you can clearly see Jesus in scripture
being tormented, having anguish over things.
Being heartbroken, being angry, angry at the Pharisees.
So that. That's the doctrine that we talked about,
and we'll get into that in a second. But

(56:47):
like, the doctrine that he is 100% God and
100% man, it does tell us that it's more
than just a skin. It's more than just. He
put on a coat and went out to work
that day. Like, it. He felt everything that humans
feel. You know, we. There's even a scripture, and
I'm blanking on it, that talks about his perseverance
and everything that he experienced, that now we have

(57:09):
the. The ability to persevere because we have a
mediator that understands.
Right. Yeah.
Anyways, I think it was a great question because
it tied into our series, and it is. It's
one of those was like, man, but he's Jesus.
He's God. I'm not like, that can feel, like,
so, like, impossible of. And to a degree, it
is.
Yeah.

(57:29):
But it's also. It's.
But he didn't resist the temptation of Satan by,
you know, drop bomb and disappearing. Like he gave
him scripture.
Yep. He did. He did everything that we could
actually do.
Absolutely right.
Beautiful. Love it. All right, two more questions. Why
does my friend, who is a Christian but gets
high on alcohol and marijuana, receive the gift of

(57:51):
prophecy and prayer language yet? I'm still waiting for
my prayer language.
I've seen this one time, I was leaving graduate
school downtown, and I went to 711, and I
was buying to Arizona, and this drunk homeless man
came up to me and said, God is going
to give you the house. He said, don't worry
about the house. God has a house for you.

(58:14):
And I'm looking at him. I'm looking at him
in disbelief. He reeks of alcohol. He's homeless. I
mean, the homeless part doesn't mean anything, but he's
alcoholic for sure. Cigarette smoke, you name it. But
prophesied. The perfect prop. Like, we were looking for
a house. We were struggling. It was just getting
difficult on time.
Word.
And it was like, this is so on time.

(58:35):
And then he asked me for $20 from the
atm. I'm like, no, but how did he have
the gift of prophecy with all the things that
were happening in his life that, you know, I
don't know if it came from trauma or what,
but he certainly was an alcoholic, and he still
flowed in that gifting, and it just shook me.

(58:56):
It was like, man, this guy is on fire
when it comes to privacy, but not necessarily on
fire when it comes to his life.
Yeah.
And so the only thing I could think of
was that it's a gift.
What's. What's the passage? It says that the. The
gifts of God are without repentance. Like, he doesn't
remove.
It's a gift.
Yeah. And it's tough that's really. And it's like,

(59:21):
man, like, they're clearly operating in the gifts of
the spirit, and yet I'm looking at their life,
and their life is garbage. It's. Yes. And I
think the reality is, I mean, we're all a
mess in some way. Like, we're all sinners saved
by grace. So, like, I get that now. It
is a struggle. Like. It is. There are times
when it's like, that's not fair. That's not right.

(59:42):
And then it's like, okay, if I sinned this
week, really, obviously, would I want God to remove
his blessings from my life or remove the gifts
of the spirit from my life as a result
and be like, no. Like, forgive me? Like, I'm
sorry? So, yeah, so I would say there. There's
a kind of a. There's a struggle within that,
but I think it's. It's real. I would also.

(01:00:05):
And this is just. Man, this is the. I'm
such a. What's the. What's the word for, like,
not pessimist, but, like, I don't know. I don't
believe people always. What's that called?
I don't know. A doubter? I couldn't tell you.
Yeah. I don't know. I just. I think I
naturally lean towards give me more proof or more
evidence because. Just because somebody says they have a

(01:00:27):
gift of prophecy, man. I don't know. I think
there's a lot of people that claim some spiritual
gifts that they ain't got. That's not. No, that's
not what that is. Because I've had people come
up with me and give me prophetic words, and.
I'm like, oh, yeah, absolutely, man.
No, bro, that wasn't. That wasn't a prophetic word
from God.
Yeah. That was like, yeah, somebody told me, me
and my wife are gonna have a daughter.

(01:00:48):
Yeah.
I'm like, not even.
Not if anybody comes to me and prophesies that
we're gonna have another child, I'm like, yeah, no,
the. The biology that requires that clothes and.
All the workers left.
Yeah.
Yeah. But I think that God wants. I mean,
God's gonna do things in people's lives, and he

(01:01:08):
wants to bless people. And so the failures of
somebody in their life who has a gift is
not necessarily gonna stop God from blessing somebody who
is. Who encounters them.
Yeah.
God. God needed to speak to me in a
moment as I'm buying my Arizona iced tea.
Yeah.
And he spoke to me in a moment.
Yeah. He chose to use somebody.

(01:01:30):
Yeah. And he used the person who has the
gifting of prophecy to come talk to me.
Yeah. So does that mean that if we're being
used by God, it means that he's okay with
the sin that's in our lives?
Not at all. No way. And I've sadly prefer
us not to be in sin.
And sadly, I've talked to even ministers that had

(01:01:52):
that. That feeling or that thought where they're like,
I know that there's something in my life that
I'm doing that's sinful, but God is still using
me.
Yeah.
So it means that it's okay for me to
continue.
Especially. Preachers have a gifting, man.
We're a bad lot.
They have a gifting of, you know, commanding an
audience, preaching the word. They get a. Yeah, this

(01:02:16):
is all this. And then their lives are true
trash.
I mean, I've had. I've had three men that
I think I've said this on the podcast before.
I had three men that I've called my pastor,
and two of the three had a moral failure.
Yeah.
That they were hiding while. Minute. While my pastor,
like.
Right.
Wasn't like, later on or something. It was like,
I looked up to these guys, they were being

(01:02:36):
used by God every single week and they had
a hidden sin.
Right.
That was enough to cause, like, huge moral failure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's.
It's the reality of, I don't know, life, I
guess. So to answer this person's question, like, man,
there's some things that just. They baffle me as
well. But I would say ultimately, your concern should

(01:02:58):
not be on the other person. It's kind of
like we talked about before with the blessings and
the trouble. Like, focus on you. Focus on your
relationship with God. At the end, God's going to
judge them. I mean, the scripture that I quoted
on Sunday, you know, not everybody that says Lord,
lord right there, but we prophesied in your name.
And he's like, I didn't know you.
Right.
So it's very possible that somebody's operating in a

(01:03:20):
gift of prophecy and Jesus, like, yeah, that's not
me.
Yeah. And you shouldn't be jealous in any kind
of way. What you should be is compassionate and
pray for their soul.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because that sin issue is a bigger problem than
their ability to.
The ability to move in the gifts of God.
Yeah. Hundred percent. So focus on you. Pray for
them. All right, last question. This is an interesting

(01:03:42):
one. How do we know that those who saw
the burning bush weren't hallucinating?
Those.
Those that saw the burning bush, I think this
person might just be mixing up their. Their Bible.
There's only one person that saw a burning bush.
Moses.
Yeah, I think that.
How do we know they weren't hallucinating?
This is the thing that we do, because they
say that about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that

(01:04:04):
all these people.
Were hallucinating, which that's never been documented in history.
500 people having a shared hallucination.
I think that we discredit the. What am I
trying to say? The intellect of some of these
Bible characters because of time. And it's like Moses

(01:04:27):
was not hallucinating.
Yeah.
Like, he was well educated. He was very mature.
He was an adult male. Like, he, you know,
he was, what, 80 years old when he saw
the burning bush? Was. He was 40 when he
left Egypt and was away for 40 years. So
it's like. Like, no, he wasn't hallucinating. Like, all

(01:04:47):
the things that he did took intellect and sense
and leadership. And he has all these qualities, except
for this one time. He's hallucinating because why? Because
he took mushrooms in the desert. Like, how does
that work? Like, I don't understand that. Like, why
did we discredit some of these? You know, Paul
has the most amazing writing in human history, not

(01:05:08):
just in the Bible, in human history. He writes
one of the longest letters of his time and
romans. But then we're like, okay, well, he sees
Jesus on the road to Damascus, and he's hallucinating?
Yeah.
Like, are you kidding me?
Like, didn't happen.
He's a well studied, brilliant man.
I think that it is just kind of the.
The world's way of negating the miraculous. If we

(01:05:33):
see something miraculous, there has to be a better
explanation than a miracle.
Right.
Right. And so when we start with that premise,
then we look for ways to disprove the miraculous.
And an easy way to disprove a lot of
miraculous events is say, oh, it was just mass
hysteria or that was a hallucination moment. So, first
of all, you have to take a stance that
miracles don't exist in order to come to that

(01:05:55):
conclusion. There's absolutely nothing absolutely around the situation that
would lead us to believe maybe this was a
hallucination. We don't have evidence of Moses having other
hallucinations. We don't have evidence of him taking narcotics
that would cause hallucinations. Like, there's nothing. Like, it
doesn't even say, you know, he was dehydrated in
the desert and almost passed out, and then he
saw burn. No, it was just a normal day,

(01:06:15):
you know, so there's nothing that leads us to
hallucination as an explanation, except for our distrust or
disbelief in the miraculous. And I understand that miracles,
by definition, they're hard to rationalize, because if it
was, if it was easy to understand, it wouldn't
be a miracle. It'd be like, oh, the thing
happened. Right, right. And so I get that. But
I think that for us as christians, the reason

(01:06:38):
why we don't believe beyond just, there's no reason
to naturally believe that it was hallucination. The rest
of scripture supports that he had this encounter. Right.
So, like, from there, then we've got multiple miracles
with the ten plagues, you've got the leading the
people out of Egypt.
But Moses going on the mountain and seeing Jesus

(01:06:59):
and the people's reaction when he comes down, their
reaction. Yeah, it's like, like, so all these people
are hallucinating as well as him.
So, so all of everything that happens in Moses
life from that moment until the end of his
life supports that that moment was genuine.
Absolutely. Yeah.
You could still argue, well, Moses wrote all of
that. So Moses was just, you know, he made
it all up. It's all a lie. Okay, well,

(01:07:21):
how did, how did the Israelites become a nation?
You know, like, so there's so many things that
stem from that one encounter that carries out. And
then further in scripture, in the New Testament, we've
got Jesus, we got the apostles praising Moses for
his faith, talking about Moses as a leader. So,
you know, you wouldn't do those things for a
guy that had a weird hallucination.
Right, right.

(01:07:41):
It's kind of like the way we look at
Jesus. So Jesus said some crazy things. If you
remove the resurrection.
Correct.
If Jesus does not come back, we're not talking
about him today. And if we were, he's either.
Absolutely. Right.
Yeah, exactly. So, like, we'd be looking at it
today and saying, man, jesus was this wacko in

(01:08:03):
the first century that tried to start a revolution,
and then the Romans killed him. The end.
Right.
But no, we don't have that because he backed
up his claims with the miraculous. Like, he backed
up his claims by walking out of the tomb.
Moses backs up his claim that he talked to
a burning bush with everything that follows from his
life and then into the, into the gospel.

(01:08:24):
And these are well fed, healthy men who weren't
wandering in the desert being delirious because of dehydration
or anything like that. Yeah, like, Moses is out
doing a job. Like, he had a home and
a family and he was fine. Like, there was
nothing wrong with him, nothing documents that anything was
wrong with him or anything. And even the resurrection,

(01:08:46):
like so many scholars, like, it's. It's a. It's
a fact now with scholars that Jesus died on
the cross, he was crucified, and that people saw
him after.
Yeah.
Like, even atheists can say that that happened. And
so it's like, now you just got to believe
that. You just. Just got to believe what he
said. Yeah.
Yeah. There's an element of faith in all this,

(01:09:08):
but it's not blind faith. It's never blind faith.
That's one of the things I hate, like, where
people will use faith as just like the. I
don't know, the magic button where it's like, I
don't understand this. It doesn't make any sense. Well,
just believe by faith, right? No, like, we just
laid out logical explanations for why we would believe
this. So that's the support for the faith that
we have, right? Yeah. Cool. All right, we've been

(01:09:30):
talking for an hour and nine minutes. You got
a little bit more time so we can talk
about. Let's do it Sunday.
You control how much work I do here at
work.
All right, Carlton, clear your calendar. We're just going
to have a conversation. So we did part two
of the you asked for it series.
Yep.
On Sunday. And we answered the question, how do
I get a basic understanding of the doctrines of

(01:09:54):
the christian life? And so I laid out as
quickly as possible the five essential doctrines.
You gave us an hour and a half sermon
in five minutes.
Way more than an hour and a half, the
five essential doctrines. And maybe that's what we can
get into today, is kind of the nuance around
those things, but just for the listeners. So we
laid out the five essentials. The authority of scripture,

(01:10:18):
the nature of God, the identity of Jesus, the
problem of sin, and the price of salvation.
Yep.
Like, those are the five. You could call them
the five pillars of Christianity. Everything that we do,
everything we are, everything is built off of those
pillars. When you reject one of those pillars, you
are no longer traditional Christian. There's still some groups

(01:10:39):
that call themselves Christians, but in rejecting those things,
they're more aptly described as a cult. Like the
Mormon church rejects several of those pillars. Mormons, when
I was a kid, didn't even try and claim
Christianity. They were, and then they turned and.
Had a huge change to become the.
Last decade or so. Like, now all of a
sudden, they're like, no, we're just a denomination. It's

(01:10:59):
like, nah, you don't get to claim that word.
So where the denominational split happens, though, is not
in the essentials. The denominational split happens in the
non essentials. The stuff that I say we kind
of hold loosely. And so if anybody's curious, like,
why are there so many denominations out there? It's
because there's a lot of things in scripture that
we interpret, and we can have differing interpretations of

(01:11:21):
it and still be christian and still have fellowship
with each other. But people that believe the same
things want to gather together. Right. So, like, a
cessationist hanging out in a charismatic church is going
to feel really uncomfortable. Right, right. And so that's
where denominations came into play. So as a way
for people to say, hey, these are the kind
of the ideas that we believe in addition to

(01:11:42):
the essentials. And so CLC is a non denominational
church, which essentially means we get to pick and
choose all the stuff that we like and leave
the stuff we don't like, which is kind of
a great way of approaching it. Others would be
able to pick and.
Choose from the infallible word of God.
Exactly. The Bible is our foundation.
Yeah. You're not bringing snakes out from the backstage.
Right. It just means that, you know, if we.

(01:12:04):
If we interpret scripture this direction for this issue,
that means we have to accept this other issue.
Sure.
Even if we disagree with it. No, because we're
not denomination. Whereas if you're baptist, you got to
line up with all of the interpretations of the
baptist church. That's the only distinction. All right, so
those. Those five essentials, you got a problem with
any of them?
Not at all. There's no thoughts? No. No thoughts.

(01:12:27):
Any of them feel, like, controversial to you that,
like, you're like, but what about these guys?
Or no, nothing feels controversial, you know, because I
can't equate my desire to know more about something
that's controversial. You know, I would love to dig
more into the Trinity, which is probably impossible, but

(01:12:48):
that doesn't make it possible.
I hope it's not impossible because you're teaching one
of the messages on the trinity.
I know, right. But listen, I get to teach
to one. I get to teach on the Holy
Spirit, and that's fine with me. Don't try to
get me to explain it to you.
In the introduction for that series, I'm gonna talk
about God the father, but I'm probably gonna set
up the triangle.
Circles and, you know, beautiful do that.

(01:13:09):
Maybe we'll just play the. The modalism. Lutheran satire,
satire video. So, great. Yeah, I'll just play that
for the sermon.
Yeah. But there's no controversy at all. And there's
no controversy because I'm falling on blind faith or
anything like that. All of those pieces work together
in my life and they come full circle. And

(01:13:32):
because of that, it gives me confirmation of what
I believe. And it's not like, well, I believe
the Bible because I believe the Bible. No, I
believe the Bible because it has spoken to me,
because I have experience with it, and it coincides
and agrees with the Holy Spirit working in my
life and who I believe Jesus to be and
who I know, who God head is and the

(01:13:52):
Trinity is in my life. And so they work
together to my salvation. And that's why I believe
in it. Not because it's just like, oh, well,
I just believe in God because I believe in
God because my mom told me to.
And if you pay attention, like, those five essentials
really are all just leading you to an explanation
of the fifth essential, that the price of salvation.
Absolutely, like, the price of salvation is understood because

(01:14:14):
of the authority of scripture. The price of salvation
is understood in the nature of God. Salvation is
understood through the identity of Jesus. Like I talked
about, if he's not 100% God, then his blood
has no power, and he's not 100% human. He
can't shed blood.
Right. Salvation out the window.
Because God doesn't have physical form. God doesn't have
blood to shed. Right. So he has to become

(01:14:37):
flesh.
Right. There's nothing there that will cover our sins.
It's like when they had to, you know, you
kill the animal, you kill the goat, and you
shed the blood over the altar to cover the
sins of the people.
It covers it, doesn't remove it.
Correct. Right.
Jesus removes it, and then, you know, the price
of. Or the, the problem with sin, or the
problem of sin is why we need salvation. Right.

(01:14:58):
So, like, really, you could say the only essential
of the faith is salvation in Jesus Christ. But,
you know, all of these other things, but it
comes build. Yeah. The platform for it. So there
are some, some controversies in there that I would,
I would throw at you and kind of get
your take. There are some that even reject the

(01:15:20):
authority of scripture as the only authority. And so
some, I would say that's more of a semantics
thing. So, like the catholic faith says, yeah, the
Bible is an authority, but so is the pope
and so is the church. I got issues with
that as a protestant. But sure, like, I. I

(01:15:41):
don't reject Catholicism merely from, from that standpoint. Like,
I think there's going to be Catholics in heaven.
Probably not as many Catholics in heaven as they
think there will be in heaven. But I'm also
not the guy that decides who gets in and
who doesn't, thankfully. We should all be grateful that
I'm not the guy that decides that.
Yeah, the brain capacity for that.
But then there's others that try and reject portions

(01:16:04):
of scripture. There's some that are like, look, I.
I don't believe in inerrancy of scripture. What's your
take on that?
Yeah, I think that, I mean, there's a number
of things that are practical that let me know
that scripture is the authority, is the word of
God. And one of those things is time. Like,
it has stood the test of time. And is

(01:16:25):
it because so many billions of humans throughout humanity
have held on to this one thing for so
long that it just happens to be that way?
No, I think that that's strategic from God's perspective.
And that the time that the Bible has been
the number one best seller in human history as

(01:16:45):
a written piece of work is evidence that this
is more than just a book. And then the
other thing too is.
That I think I'm part of the reason why
it's still the best selling book. Because I have
like 20 bibles in my library. I don't have
20 copies of any other book.
Not from lost and found, like you go to
passes 840 bibles, but they're all like, no, this

(01:17:08):
is all me.
I got, I bought a Jesus center Bible life
application, study Bible, ESV and Erv.
So I got bibles from college and then you
version. So I got like three bibles from like
surveys.
I still buy new bibles. I bought two bibles
last year. But both bibles were really cool last
year. Well, I didn't buy one of them. One
of them was a gift from my wife. I
got a ESV leather bound like this. My beefy,

(01:17:30):
like, if my kids misbehave, that's the bible I
use to bring correction. And then I bought this.
It's New Testament only, but it's. Each book of
the Bible is a separate bound book. And left
side is the Bible, right side is like a
journal that you can write in. It's a really
cool, like volume.
I don't like writing, so I wouldn't be buying
that.
I buy bibles all the time.

(01:17:51):
Yeah, but the other thing that lets me know
that the Bible holds true as the word of
God is that my experience with the Bible, because
it's living word and I haven't had that experience
with any other book. And I read other books,
but the thing that gets me is that the
Bible is alive. It speaks to my life. It

(01:18:13):
speaks to me. It's something that you can only
that you'll have to experience, because it's not just
words on the page, but it's the voice of
God speaking to me in my life. And that's
another reason why I think that the Bible has
authority as the word of God. And it's strategically
written. It's beautifully written. It doesn't contradict itself in

(01:18:40):
canceling out any theology or doctrine that's in it.
And again, it's just my experience with it, you
know, how do you know God exists? Because you
can't see them, you can't smell them, you can't
taste them, you can't touch them. And it's like,
well, in the ways that you think, you can't
see him and touch him and feel his presence.

(01:19:00):
But I have experience with him. And so I
have experience with the Bible where the Bible just
comes alive to me and I cannot deny my
personal experience. I'm not hallucinating. I'm not on drugs.
And the Bible, when I read the Bible, it
just. It speaks to my life and it comes
alive to me. And I. I believe that I'm

(01:19:21):
reading the words of God.
Yeah. So, yeah, 100%. And I think it's. It's
such an amazing book because. Or series of books
would be more literal because the Bible's not a
book. It's 66 books.
Yeah, it's the library.
But one of the cool things is, like, so
many people want to attack the Bible, and it's
been under attack for, you know, thousand years plus,

(01:19:45):
and. And it still withholds. Like, there's, you know,
books have been written about all the contradictions of
the Bible. I've bought some of the books. I've
read through the contradictions. And it's like, did you
even read the thing that you claim is contradiction?
Like, it gives an explanation for that. Like, in
the very next verse, like, just keep reading. Like,
I've never found what was claimed to be a

(01:20:06):
contradiction, that I could not find a logical, easy
explanation for it.
Right.
To make it not be an other supporting verses.
Yeah, exactly. You know, so I will say, like,
so I just got done teaching a biblical interpretation
class, and we didn't really get into this much,
but the idea of inerrancy, we also hold to

(01:20:27):
the fact that it was inerrant in its original
form. Like, the original writing was inerrant. That doesn't
necessarily mean the Bible that I'm holding on my
desk is inerrant.
Yeah, because we've talked to translations that are just
inerrant.
Exactly.
Absolutely right.
So, so the idea is there's scribal errors. So,
like, yeah, there. There's one contradiction in scripture where
it's like, was this 10,000 or 1000? Well, the
way Hebrews write numbers, they're actually letters. The numbers

(01:20:51):
are letters. So it's really easy to leave off
a letter.
Yeah.
And how many times in accounting would you be
like, oh, this doesn't, this doesn't balance. And you
realize, oh, I missed a couple comma or I
missed a decimal.
Point, or not having the right translation for terms
that represent time.
Right.
You know, like, you know, the word day in
Hebrew could be different in Latin, could be different

(01:21:12):
in English. You know, so things like that we
have.
So there's translation errors, there's scribal errors where they're
copying something down wrong. And the more manuscripts we
find, the more we're able to measure and see,
okay, this was an error, or this was probably
the error and we can fix it. It was
really fascinating. I even found that because of all
of, like, the manuscript differences, like the errors in

(01:21:36):
the manuscripts, they could actually determine the process the
scribe was using. If there's a lot of spelling
mistakes, then most likely that scribe, they were.
Using this kind of formula.
They were using letter by letter. They were translated.
So they were copying down letter by letter, not
translating, but transcribing letter by letter. Whereas if there

(01:21:57):
was, like, an entire word missing, or like, the
whole sentence structure was changed, it wasn't somebody that
was copying letter by letter. It was somebody that
was copying word by word.
Right.
And so when they missed a word, it was
different than the other guy that missed a letter.
Right. Right.
So it's fascinating stuff, but, like, there's a lot
of historical evidence for why we trust the Bible.
And when we make the claim that it's inerrant,

(01:22:18):
you know, that doesn't mean that the copy of
the Bible I'm holding on my desk is inerrant
in those senses. Is it still truth? Is it
still the word of God? Absolutely. And in all
of the errors that have been found in the
Bible, in the transcribable errors and stuff, not a
single doctrine was touched.
Right?
It's literally, it's like, was there 10,000 horses and

(01:22:41):
chariots? Or was there 1000 horses and chariots? Look,
if that's wrong in the Bible, God help us
all. What are we going to do, Carlton? What,
are we gonna die across? Jesus didn't die on
the cross cuz there was an extra 900 horses,
right? No, it doesn't affect anything.
Right.
Okay, so you go with the Bible.

(01:23:01):
Go with the Bible.
Go with the Bible. You go with God, right.
Go with the triune God, man. That's the one
that, that trips people.
It, it is. But I think the thing for
me is that the only difficult thing for me
is. And for prayer and relationship, you know, I
have a relationship with God, but I find myself

(01:23:23):
praying to Jesus and interacting with the Holy Spirit
in my day to day life. And then it's
like, okay, Father, you're there, like, wait a minute.
Okay, I need to, you know, and so that's
the only thing that becomes difficult for me. But
as far as believing in the Trinity and understanding
that it is a. It's how God presents himself,
I have no problems with that at all because

(01:23:44):
I see it in the authority of the scripture
that I just said is my authority. So I
see the Trinity in scripture. So if I. I
can't say that I don't believe the Trinity. If
I can say that the Bible is my authority
of the word of God because the Trinity is
spelled out in the Bible.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I have no problems with

(01:24:04):
the Trinity at all. And then I can also,
with my experience, I see how the Trinity works
in my life and I, and I feel the
move of the Holy Spirit in my life with
no problem at all. And if I can believe
that the Holy Spirit is moving in my life
and I can believe that Jesus died on the
cross and was had rose from the dead, then

(01:24:25):
certainly that's two components of the Trinity that I
believe in. And so there's no problem for me
to go back to scripture and believe that the
father exists as well. So my maternity controversy and
there's, man.
There'S so much scripture that lays it out, which
I think that stumbling block for people is like.
But you can't find the word Trinity in the
Bible. I know that's a muslim attack against Christianity

(01:24:47):
all the time. It's like, show me in the
Bible where it says Trinity. It's like, it doesn't.
There's a lot of, it's like when.
People say that Jesus never claimed to be God.
Yeah, that one's just silly to me.
That's like, that's why they killed.
Yeah, they literally, they killed him for blast.
They had no question that he said.
That he Jews were crucified, wanted him crucified for
blasphemy. What was the blasphemy? He claimed to be

(01:25:07):
God.
Yes.
Like, by definition right there. But anyways, like, so,
so there's a lot of attacks against the fact
that the phrase trinity isn't in scripture. And it
isn't, but it doesn't need to be. Right? Because,
like, we created the word trinity to understand something.
That's very complicated.
Yeah, absolutely right.
Instead of always saying God exists in three distinct

(01:25:30):
persons that are co equal, co eternal, we said
Trinity.
Right.
We just shortened the concept to one phrase. And.
And there's another scripture that I didn't even get
into on Sunday. That's a huge, like, pointer towards
the Trinity. That's Jesus's baptism. Right. Because you hear
this voice from heaven, what happens? So you have

(01:25:50):
Jesus getting baptized. There's one. You've got a dove
descending from heaven as the Holy Spirit, the same
fire that descends in other passages and scriptures. You
got holy spirit coming down as a dove, and
then you've got the voice of God from heaven
saying, this is my son, whom I'm well pleased.
You have all three interacting with each other in

(01:26:10):
one moment. Then on the cross, you've got Jesus
crying out to God the father. So, like, who's
Jesus praying to?
And all these things in the garden in Gethsemane,
who is he praying to?
Exactly right. So, like, you, you've got Trinity.
Who is he saying, not my will, but your
will. Yeah, my. Right.
So. So then we have to go back to,
you know, the beginning says there's only one God,

(01:26:33):
right? But then there's this plurality of that one
God. So how do we justify that? How do
we understand that? We understand that with the Trinity,
that it's one God in three distinct persons. And,
yeah, we can get all kinds of complication with
that, but I think that's, that's sufficient that I
will say that. Like, I got pushback from, not
even pushback, but questions from people that come from

(01:26:54):
a oneness pentecostal background. Because oneness Pentecostals reject the
Trinity. They reject Trinitarians. Now, this is hard because
it is a essential doctrine, but I still feel
like one is Pentecostals. While I have a lot
of issues with a lot of their theology, I

(01:27:14):
would say that there's just, like, catholics, there's gonna
be oneness Pentecostals in heaven. I think. Again, I'm
not the guy that says yes or no. Yeah,
but I think that a lot of times the
distinction really comes from a lack of knowledge or
a lack of understanding, but they're still putting their
faith and their trust in Jesus Christ as God,
as their savior. So I think that at some

(01:27:35):
point, it's just like, it's ignorance. And I don't
think God sends anybody to hell over ignorance, lack
of understanding what they, they believe.
But this is the question I have for you,
though. And it's like Jesus said, no one gets
to the father except through me. Except through me.
But, okay, so you receive Jesus, but you don't.

(01:27:56):
This is hard to say. You don't use him
to get to the father.
Yeah.
So the, like, he's opened up the door for
us to have access to the father. And so
what's. I know we have Jesus for salvation, but
isn't our goal, our purpose is to get back
to the father through Christ, Jesus through the salvation
that he's given us.
Yeah, 100% are the whole purpose of. So they
just stop at Jesus, but that, so I'm not

(01:28:18):
a oneness pentecostal, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna give
their argument there it, because they're all the same.
It's, it's, it's the same like, so am I
getting to God? Yes. Am I going through Jesus?
Yes. Is Jesus different from God? No. So I'm,
in other words, a one is pentecostal would be

(01:28:40):
saying, I'm getting to Jesus through Jesus, and they
wouldn't have a problem with it, with that.
So when Jesus told the disciples, it's better that
I leave because someone is coming for you, was
he saying it, I'm just gonna make a trip
up to heaven and come back?
Yes, but I'm gonna come back in a different
form. It's modalism.
Right.
I don't know if that makes sense to any

(01:29:01):
of our listeners.
Give them the clover, give them the.
Ice, give them the modal. Modalism is the idea
that there's one God that then will, I guess
transform is probably the best, most, yeah.
So water can be ice.
Yeah.
It becomes liquid and anything that it.
Needs to be in a scenario. So God becomes
Jesus when he needs to be Jesus. He becomes

(01:29:21):
the Holy Spirit when he's become the Holy Spirit.
So the modalism, the oneness would be Jesus said,
I've got to go so I can do a
quick wardrobe change so I can come back in
this form that will be in everyone instead of
in just one place at one time. So, yeah,
so, and that's why I'm like, you know, the,
the oneness guys, I think they're going to be
in heaven. They got other issues with, with doctrine

(01:29:44):
and the way they interpret scripture. But I think
that this is a failure to interpret the scripture,
but because the core elements of the salvation is
intact. Like, they'd still go to heaven. So, like,
we had kind of a little bit of an
argument in our sermon planning for this. This message,
because originally I was using the phrase salvific.

(01:30:04):
Yeah.
Which. Salvific just means, most of us learned.
That word that day.
It's bearing unto salvation. That's a salvific issue is
something that bears unto salvation.
Yes.
The complication, there is someone, the team were like,
so that means that these things save you. And
it's like, no, salvific issues bear unto salvation. It's

(01:30:25):
how we understand salvation. It's how we come to
salvation, but it's not the thing that saves us.
Right. So, like, so you don't need to package
these things together to have salvation. So, like, us
understand the salvation that we have.
Right. So, like, for me personally, like, I would
make an argument that the Bible, the. The authority
of scripture is a salvific issue because it. It's

(01:30:45):
through the scriptures that we come to our understanding
that we need to be saved, how we are
saved. So it is salvific because it bears under
salvation. Does that mean if you never read a
page of the Bible, you can't be saved? No,
but that's not what we're trying to claim. But
that was, that was a, that was an interesting
back and forth, and I realized that I was
just confusing our staff, our pastors.

(01:31:08):
Group of pastors.
Yeah. I was confusing them by using the phrase
salvific. So for Sunday's message, we're looking at.
The thief of the cross, who've never touched a
bible in his life, probably.
Never touched a bible. Well, and I would. I
even push back on. Yeah, because he was jewish.
Yeah. He went to school. He had a bible.
He had tor and he had the tanaka. But,
uh, so anyways, um. Yeah. So it just became

(01:31:29):
one of those things where it's like, okay, I
don't want to add confusion on Sunday.
Yeah.
So I'll just, I won't bother using the phrase
salvific. But other teachers. Yeah, other teachers will, like,
they'll. They'll refer to these things as salvification issues.
So when we, when we get Jesus is 100%

(01:31:50):
God, 100% man. So we're into the identity of
Christ now. That's what is so vital to me
to understand, because the cults that deny and the
other religions that deny Jesus deity, if Jesus is
not 100% God and 100% man. He has to
be bothered in order for this process of salvation

(01:32:12):
to take place.
Yeah.
So, like, the moment you say, well, Jesus was
just a prophet, I'm sorry, Muslims, we're not in
agreement because when people try and say, hey, Christians
and Muslims and Jews, they're all worshiping the same
God. No, no, we're not, because there's a rejection
of the process to salvation. No one comes to
the father except through me. A Muslim can't go

(01:32:34):
to heaven unless they accept Jesus as their lord
and savior.
Right.
You don't get to Allah by any other means.
Right. He can't be just a prophet.
Exactly. So then like the, the Mormon faith that
tries to put Jesus as, yeah, he's God, but
he's a created God, the eldest son. He's the
eldest brother is what they. So he's the firstborn

(01:32:56):
son, which is, they take scripture, but it's a,
it's a misunderstanding. It's a misinterpretation. And a lot
of it comes back to, you know, the founder
of the movement wasn't an educated man. So he's
reading his Bible and he's not understanding what he's
reading and he's making things up. And now there's
a whole religion, or.
Jehovah's witnesses that believe that Jesus was a God.

(01:33:16):
Right, exactly. But, yeah, so, like, so all of
this is like, no, we have to understand that
the process of salvation for us is paid for
by the blood of Jesus.
Right.
If Jesus isn't a man, he doesn't shed bread.
Right.
And if he's only a man, might as well

(01:33:37):
hung me on a cross.
And the resurrection proves that he's more than just
a man.
Exactly.
Because he said what was going to happen and
then he did it.
Yeah.
And if he hadn't did it, then you can
eliminate all the deity properties of Jesus.
Exactly. And if, and if God wanted to squash
that one.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Why would he allow it? Right.
Absolutely. So, like, if it's not in alignment.

(01:33:59):
With God, because so many other people were raised
from the dead during that time. So what makes
Jesus different is because he called it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he, no one else instigated
his resurrection.
Yeah.
Like Lazarus didn't resurrect.
He didn't say, hey, guys, listen, don't worry.
It took Jesus going in there and saying come

(01:34:19):
up.
Right?
Yeah. So, yeah, the essentials for me, it's, I
think that every Christian needs to, to fully embrace
and understand those doctrines. There's so much more scripture
to support it. So much more conversation we could
have about it.
Prophecy, the Bible connecting together through prophecy.
Oh, yeah. For the authenticity, the authority of scripture.

(01:34:40):
It's because of prophecy. Like, first and foremost because
the prophecies, we can actually look at the claims
when they were written and when they were fulfilled.
And you're not talking about ten years ago, right.
You're talking about thousands of years.
Exactly, yeah, so, yeah, so. But I think every
Christian needs to know those five things because there
is a lot in the world that's trying to

(01:35:01):
detract Christianity. There's a man, it's. I don't know
how much it's touched our church, but I know
it's touching the church, but the new age movement
blending in, it's like new age beliefs kind of
trying to weave into Christianity and be like, yeah,
we can be christian. And this new age, where
did this come from, man?
I remember Yanni in the nineties, but that was
it for me with new age.

(01:35:22):
New age is like making a resurgence, but it's
doing it through the christian faith that it's just
weird. And sadly, and I'm not going to name
names right now, but sadly, there's some churches that
have embraced new age teachings and concepts and now
they're promoting them as christian doctrine. And it's like,
no, no, no. That's why it starts with authority
of scripture. Like, go back into the Bible. So,

(01:35:44):
like, the healing power of sound, I'm sorry, that's
not a christian belief. That's a new age belief
that's working its way through.
There's a frequency that we can have offline.
I'll tell you which church is promoting that because
it's sound, it's dangerous, and they got a big
following. But, yeah, so we just, we need to
know these things because when we get into conversation

(01:36:04):
with other religions, these are the things that distinguish.
Right. So when somebody tries to claim, hey, all
religions lead. Lead to heaven, ours does not allow
that to happen in the sense of it does
not leave room for us to have that interpretation.
Right, right. So, like, you cannot be christian and
embrace those concepts.
How do you interpret Jesus saying that he is

(01:36:24):
the way, the truth and the life, he is
the way, the.
Only thing you can do is misinterpret. Like, how
do you misinterpret ignorance? By choice, by saying, you
know, well, that's why we start with the authority
of scripture. It's saying, well, the Bible isn't as
important as these other things. It's like, no, no,
no, the Bible actually is just as important as.

(01:36:45):
That's why I love the Bible so much, because
the Bible is what justifies every belief that I
hold.
Yeah.
Right. If I have a belief and it's not
founded in scripture, then I'm in error.
Right.
Like, I'm just. I'm. I'm wrong.
Right, right.
So, so, yeah. So christians listening, you need to
know these five essentials. I think the analogy that
I gave on Sunday works. You know, if you

(01:37:06):
claim to be christian, you've got to believe these
things or else you're a vegan eating a chicken
sandwich.
There you go.
And so we don't.
Christian sandwich.
A christian sandwich is like the freudian slip or
whatever. That was the moment. You know what? It's
chick fil a. It is a christian sandwich. But,
yes. Yeah. That was a fun, fun moment in

(01:37:27):
the second service.
Yeah.
But, yeah, so, like, there is. There is some
things that. And look, you can say, man, Brent's
a gatekeeper of what's Christian and what's not Christian.
I'm not the gatekeeper. The Bible is the gatekeeper.
Right.
That's why we set it up first. Like, the
Bible says this or this, and we do that
in so many other things. Right. Like, with the

(01:37:48):
vegan concept, with other things.
Like, you can put guard worlds around anything, but
you can't put guardrails around Christianity.
Yeah. They'd be so weird.
Right?
Like, man. Yeah. Like, I'm. I'm a car nut.
I love cars so much. Well, what car do
you own? I don't own any cars. I don't
like driving.
I got a horse.
I don't actually like cars. Cars are bad, but
I'm a car nut. Like what? Like, it doesn't

(01:38:08):
even make sense. Like, yeah, I'm a gamer. What
video games do you play? None.
Great.
You play mobile games.
You're a monopoly.
You're not a gamer. Like, you may be using
that term to describe yourself, but it doesn't make
it true.
Yeah.
And so we just have to understand that when
it comes to the doctrines.
Yeah. If there's any type of identification that I

(01:38:29):
want to have, it's a Christian. And with that.
With that identification, I want to live within the
boundaries and. And guidelines and doctrine and theology of
Christian Christianity and nothing else.
Yeah. I can't say I'm a Democrat, and I
always vote for the republican party. By definition, there's
something wrong here. You're not doing the thing that.

(01:38:50):
Yeah. So, yeah. Fun times.
Yeah.
Learn your doctrines. Hopefully my 45 minutes sermon helped
put people on the right path, but there's a
lot of good things. Anything you want to add?
I certainly got people thinking, for sure. You know,
if you hadn't thought about these five, you know,
disciplines or elements of Christianity, now you are, and

(01:39:11):
now you can seek these things out, because there's
one thing that remains true is that the Holy
Spirit is always working in us and through us,
and he's always speaking to us. And so you
may be like, man, I never really thought about
the deity of Jesus or the Trinity, but let
me, you know, go to my scripture and see
what it says and allow the Holy Spirit to
work through. Through you. A lot of this. You
know, we have self study, but the research that

(01:39:34):
we do in our own time, through the Bible,
is through the workings of the Holy Spirit that
is speaking to us and edifying us. And so
I just encourage everybody, you know, to pray, you
know, and allow God to speak through you with
some of these things that can be complex and
that you have difficulty understanding and watch how God
applies it to your life.

(01:39:54):
And please, if you've got questions about any of
those five or you came up in a church
that didn't teach those things, if you got questions
with it, let us know. I'd love to talk
through why and give you more scripture to think
over and all of that, but, yeah, I think
that what we understand with this is there are
a lot of things that are important to us
as christians, but these are the most important things.

(01:40:15):
Yep.
So you can show me in scripture where I'm
wrong on a bunch of stuff, but, like, these.
These are essentials.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sweet.
All right, that was it. An hour and 40
minutes. Not quite as long as last week. Still
our second longest. We'll see if next week gets
any better. It's mental health.
And then the one after that.
The one after that. We either need to make

(01:40:37):
it the shortest podcast ever or the longest podcast
ever. We're literally addressing politics, abortion, and LGBTQ issues
in the church.
Wow.
From a biblical standpoint. So we're. We're. I'm just
gonna give you what. What we believe, why we
believe it, and how we respond to it. Off.
What's the truth?
Yeah.
You're gonna do it in love, so.
I hope so.
There you go.

(01:40:57):
That's. But I'm gonna define love with a belt,
a rod. There's a misdefinition of love. Love does
not mean acceptance.
Correct. Absolutely.
Yeah. I don't know who. I don't know who
was in charge of trying to redefine the word
love.
Yeah.
To mean that, but they clearly don't love other

(01:41:17):
people.
Right?
Like, I love my kid, but I'm not gonna
affirm everything that he does.
I'm not gonna accept your suicidal thoughts.
Yeah, yeah. No, there's boundaries to these things. Just
like there's boundaries to being a Christian.
Perfect.
Oh, we're gonna have a good time. All right,
we'll see you there.

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