This week, we examine how teams can be most effective and poised for innovation when psychological safety is a priority for leaders who instill it as part of institutional culture. Join Zac Macinnes for a thoughtful and inspiring conversation with Dr. Amy Ewen, Director of International Education and Study Away at Suffolk University focused on how feeling safe in a workplace with a trust filled environment can position us for achieve our full potential.
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(00:04):
We want to give people the grace and the spaceto have missteps, make mistakes, to listen,
to learn, and to be better. And within our teens,that's really important to do. And psychological
safety can help create that space for peopleto learn and to be better. Hello everyone.
(00:26):
Welcome to this episode of World Strides InauguralPodcast. Changing Lives Through Education Abroad,
a weekly series of conversations with internationaleducation's most interesting thought leaders,
as well as discussions on emerging trends, bestpractices, and innovation happening in our
field. I'm your host, Zapp McKinnis, and I amso excited for this week's episode. Today,
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we're focusing on a pivotal yet often overlookedaspect of the international education workplace.
The concept of psychological safety and whyit matters. Psychological safety refers to
an individual's perception of the consequencesof taking an interpersonal risk or a belief
that a team is safe for risk-taking in the faceof being seen as ignorant, incompetent, negative,
(01:17):
or disruptive. In a team with high psychologicalsafety, members feel accepted and respected
and are comfortable being themselves at work.Psychological safety is the bedrock of innovation
and collaboration. It allows team members toshow up as who they are, voice their thoughts
and opinions without fear of judgment, and contributeto their team's collective goals. I am thrilled
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to welcome my friend, Dr. Amy Ewen, onto thepodcast to unpack this topic with us. Amy is
the Director of International Education andStudy Away at Suffolk University in Boston.
Amy received her EDD in Educational Leadershipfrom Johnson and Wales University, where she
defended a dissertation on psychological safetyand the higher education workplace. So yeah,
(02:04):
I can't imagine a better person to help us explorethis topic. Stay tuned, dear listeners. You
do not want to miss this episode. Amy Ewen,welcome and thank you for being here. Thank
you so much, Zach. I'm thrilled to be here.To begin, I'd like to ask you to please give
us an overview of your career trajectory andthe education abroad ecosystem at Suffolk University.
(02:26):
As with a lot of international educators, I'veworked in a few places, come from different
backgrounds. That's what I love about our fieldis that we all come from various academic and
professional backgrounds and we've found ourway to international education. I have worked
at some provider organizations. I worked forthe International Student Exchange Program
in Washington, D.C. That was my first job inthe field. Through that, I learned a ton about
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the industry, about incoming and outgoing students.And I was able to visit one of our partner
institutions, the University of Marburg in Germany,which actually sort of led to my plan to go
abroad for my master's degree. I returned toGermany for my master's at the University of
Kassel in Germany, which was a phenomenal experience,really international classroom. All of my classmates
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were from many countries around the world. WhileI was there, I was fortunate to be able to
work on a research project. sponsored by theEuropean Science Foundation. So through that,
there were teams from Portugal and Finland inthe US and Germany and Japan and the UK. I
was so lucky to be able to learn from theseincredible researchers and professionals in
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the field of higher education research and justsort of sit back and absorb the information
and watch the magic. One thing that I thinkwas sort of pivotal was at the end of that
research project. I said to my boss, okay, we'vedone this research, we've interviewed these
people, you know, what do we do now? And shesaid, we publish. And I said, great, then what
(04:01):
do we do? And she said, nothing. We give itto the practitioners and the administrators
and they will act upon these. And I thought,that is some BS, because I want to do something.
This is, we've, I've spent two years of my liferesearching this topic. I have ideas, I want
to do something. So that made me realize thatas much as I really like research, I also want
(04:27):
to do. I want to take the research and makethe actions. After I left Germany, I met my
now husband in my master's program. He is fromChile, so we moved to Chile for a few years
where I was very fortunate to get to know theChilean higher education system a bit better.
My colleagues and I had founded an organization,a consulting organization. So we were able
(04:50):
to work with Chilean universities, which wasa great opportunity to just sort of see internationalization
in a new context. And I returned to the UnitedStates in 2012. I worked for Johnston-Wales
University for several years. I taught at ProvidenceCollege. I taught a class on study abroad in
their master's program, which was a wonderfulexperience and a new experience for me in that
(05:15):
I might have this information and I might havethis knowledge in my head. But getting it out
of my head in an organized and clear way tobring others into the field was a challenge,
but a really wonderful challenge. And now Iam the director of, as you said, the director
of International Education and Study Away atSuffolk in Boston, which is, I don't wanna
say it's the culmination of my career becauseI hope I have many years ahead of me, but it
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is absolutely the best place for me to be rightnow. I feel that all of the folks that I have
worked with and worked for over the years, hasgiven me the information, the strength, the
mentorship to bring my absolute best professionalself into this role. Thank you, Amy. So well
said. I know one of your professional passionsis psychological safety. And that's of course
(06:04):
the topic that we're talking about today. Forour listeners who might be less familiar, what
does psychological safety mean to you? It'sessentially, as you said in the introduction,
is people feeling that they can ask questions,disagree, admit mistakes, and there won't be
(06:26):
any professional repercussions for that. Andwhen I try to explain that to folks, it can
sound sort of dry, because when you think ofrepercussions, you may not get fired for asking
a question. But if we think about a scenariothat we've all been in, where you're in a staff
meeting, or you're in a meeting with your team,And you say, you know what, I didn't really
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understand this. Can you clarify? There's reallytwo ways that can go. Either your team and
your manager can say, oh sure, yeah, let's talkthat out and make sure that you understand.
And you feel like, oh good, I'm allowed to askthat simple question. The other option is,
I'm sorry, you didn't understand. Well, thatsounds like a you problem. And you know, those
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two binary, responses, of course there's grayin the middle, but that's kind of a lack of
psychological safety or a presence of psychologicalsafety. And what's interesting about psychological
safety to me is that it doesn't have to happento you. You know what, I'm going to use an
example from my own professional career. I bookedour student group into the wrong airport, which
(07:37):
I have done. If you say that in a meeting, that'sa risk that you're taking. As you said, you
know, you have that mute. you risk being seenas ignorant when you make that mistake. And
if your supervisor says, are you kidding? Youhave any idea how much this is going to cost
us? We don't have anything left in the budget.And you're watching this interaction happen
(07:58):
to your team member. When you make a mistake,do you really think you're gonna admit it?
Do you really think you're gonna stick yourneck out? Absolutely not. It's so fascinating
to me as a team construct because it really,if one person on the team doesn't feel like
the team is psychologically safe, then it'snot. It's such an important cornerstone for
being able to build a team that is going togo above and beyond the status quo and just
(08:25):
people coming to work and just keeping theirnose down and not trying to cause any waves.
Is that what we want? No, absolutely not. Sothat's one of the things I think is so fascinating
about it. And for me, I became interested inthe construct when my work situation went from
being one that was psychologically safe. toone that was not. And plain and simple, I grappled
(08:48):
with what I was feeling because again, not havinga name for this, you say like, I just, it feels
bad now. Why does it feel bad? And I came acrossa study that Google had done actually, it was
called Project Aristotle, that they wanted tofind out what makes the most successful teams.
And they looked at every factor you can imagine,age, cultural diversity, generations. male,
(09:13):
female, you know, everything you could imagine.And the one factor that was always common consistently
in successful teams was psychological safety.But she said, I like who you shared a story
about booking in the wrong airport. I've madethe same mistake. I was once leading a group
of colleagues to Melbourne, Australia. And thatwas the day I learned that Melbourne in fact
(09:33):
has two airports, not one. So these things happenin our field and as many plane tickets and
airfares that I've coordinated, mistakes happen.And I think it's important to face up to them
when they do. And that's how we learn is fromthose mistakes. And I think Elmer Roosevelt
said, you know, learn from your mistakes. I'mparaphrasing very badly. Learn from your mistakes.
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You don't have enough time to make all the mistakesto learn from other people's mistakes too.
I love that. What are some examples of how psychologicalsafety can positively impact team dynamics
and productivity. Well, as I said, it's sortof the cornerstone or the base of a team that
is willing to, not just willing, is able tohave conversations that are not easy. And there's
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a couple of things that I think sort of getmixed in with the conversation of psychological
safety constructs that we're all a little bitmore familiar with that are related but very
different. And so sometimes talking about whatpsychological safety is, it's helpful just
to show what it's not. It's related to trust,but it isn't the same as trust. Trust is the
(10:45):
willingness to be vulnerable to the actionsof others. And the sort of key difference is
that with trust, you are willing to give someoneelse the benefit of the doubt. With psychological
safety, you are expecting that they will giveyou the benefit of the doubt. And so trust
is important in teams. And so you can trustpeople on your team, but still your team may
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not have that psychological safety. It's alsodifferent from cohesion. Group cohesion is
defined as your commitment to the team, thetask, and each other. And that's a great thing,
but it can also sometimes lead to group thinkand team pride or our team versus this team.
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It's actually been shown too that having badmanagers can increase team cohesion because
it's sort of the whole team having this sameexperience of like, wow, our manager really
sucks. So that's a pitfall that you want tobe careful of. And it's also different from
team efficacy, which is just the belief thatyou can complete a task. But the psychological
safety is so related to all of these thingsand it's often an antecedent of some of these
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things. Psychological safety is so informedby leader behavior. Because it's when you're
thinking about these professional repercussions,there's a hierarchy there that we're all aware
of. And somebody who is professionally evaluatingyou, if you don't feel like you are able to,
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again, ask a question, disagree respectfully,admit a mistake or offer a new idea, you're
not going to do that. And my, my research focusedon psychological safety and creativity and
innovation, which will. We'll talk about whythat's really important in higher education
and in education abroad in particular, but beingcreative necessarily means taking risks and
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offering a new idea and trying something andpossibly failing. And if going back to the
core of it, if you don't feel like it's okayto fail, you're not going to offer those ideas.
There's so many other things that can happenin a workplace, you know, where there's a perceived
lack of safety and other than termination, right?There's a loss of potential professional development
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opportunities or so many different repercussionsthat a team member could fear that it might
prohibit them from being their authentic selves.Many of our listeners might be thinking that
they'd like to bring some of these ideas totheir teams or colleagues, even if change at
the leadership level might not be immediatelypossible. What are some small steps that anyone
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can take towards building trusted morale ona team? What's wonderful about psychological
safety, as I said, is that it is a team-levelconstruct. So we may all have thought about
our own work situations where your team feelspsychologically safe, but you can see another
work team is clearly does not have that. We've,you know, I've been in that situation too.
Within your own team, it is, as I said, it isa team-level construct, but there are things
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that you can do as sort of a dyadic relationshipor, you know, amongst just your team members.
Because it does come so much from leadershipbehavior, that that's super complicated to
change. Because again, maybe in a psychologicallysafe environment, you would feel comfortable
talking to your supervisor, but you know, chickenin the egg, which comes first. Talking with
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your colleagues and having that relationshipwith them that, you know, maybe you can't bring
your idea to the whole team, but if you feellike you can bring it to one or two people
on your team, and... you'll be listened to andthey'll ask constructive questions. And if
they disagree with you, or if they give youcritical feedback, you won't be ascended by
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it. That's a psychologically safe relationshipright there. And then if one of you has the
guts to say something in a larger meeting, toask a question, admit a mistake, knowing that
your teammates will have your back and say,you know, I didn't understand that either,
or I agree, I would like to explore this further,just knowing, and sometimes it's even as much
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as explicitly asking for that, saying, if Idisagree with this move that we're making,
will you not sit there silently? Because that'sthe worst. Even if you voice something where
you say, I don't totally agree, but I want totalk more about this, that's one of the beauties
of psychological safety is that it lets youhave these task conflicts. that don't devolve
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into relationship conflict. And that's one ofthe dangers of a lack of psychological safety.
Task conflicts, not devolving into relationshipconflicts. That's a really interesting concept.
What is some of your advice? If there's anypractitioners listening who may have a disagreement
with someone on their team, whether perhapsit's about the structure or pre-departure orientation,
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or a program portfolio list, or... the way thestudy abroad fair is laid out, or could there
be any number of things? How do we keep ourselvesfrom letting a task conflict devolve into a
relationship conflict? What are your pro tipsthere? It's a cop out to say, if you have a
sense of psychological safety on your team,you are able to have those conversations. And
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I don't just mean there you fixed it. I mean,you can say, look, I think this would be better.
You think this would be better. We both havethe same goal. We both want a great study abroad
fair. We both want to prepare our students fora successful time abroad. Let's talk about
it. And verbally saying that this is not aboutyou. This is not a relationship conflict. I'm
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not trying to undermine you. And to back upfor a bit, if you find that you are actually
trying to undermine that person, then it's notabout the, it's not about the task. It's not
about the task. Yeah. That is some. That's somesoul searching that you need to do on your
own. And I'm not saying that relationship conflictwon't happen or that you're a failure if it
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does happen. It just means recognizing it forwhat it is. And you may be able to talk with
your manager and say, we are having this conflictor I'm having this conflict with somebody.
I don't want to let it affect our professionalrelationship. I don't wanna let it affect our
work and I definitely don't wanna let it affectour students. Being able to recognize it and
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see that in ourselves, I think is really important.And then also calling out when you do have
a successful discussion or a successful disagreementabout a task at hand, giving yourself credit
for that, both all of you and recognizing, I'mreally proud of us for the way that we handled
this. And reminding, again, reminding ourselvesthat this was about the task and we're all
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on the same team. We're all, we all want towin the championship. We all want to get students
abroad. That was some really fantastic advicefor the practitioners who are listening. Amy,
thank you for that. I'm curious about your thoughtsfor the leaders who are listening. What can
leaders in education abroad do to foster anatmosphere of psychological safety? Well, the
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leaders are really the sort of the key to itall because whether we like it or not, we are
setting the tone for our team. And it's notjust about the way you react when somebody
admits a mistake, asks a question, proposesan idea, disagrees. It's also doing that yourself.
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And I found that admitting mistakes is a reallypowerful way to do that because as a leader,
you're expected to offer new ideas. As a leader,you're expected to disagree. The other two
that are sort of the more, I don't wanna saypassive, but. Asking questions and admitting
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mistakes, those are a little bit more vulnerablesometimes. And those are kind of the first
two steps in building a psychologically safeteam is first you feel like you have the safety
to ask a question. The next step is the safetyto admit a mistake and then and so on and it
sort of builds on itself. So I have always triedto admit my mistakes and say like, wow, I really,
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really screwed that one up. you know, even ifit's a mistake that I made yesterday or a mistake
I made three years ago, because if one of myteam members makes a mistake and I can say,
well, okay, we're gonna learn from that, likenow we know, let me tell you about the time
that I did this. So it sort of breaks down thatillusion that the leader is supposed to be
infallible. And I think that goes a really,really long way. When you see your leader admit
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a mistake or admit that they don't know something.I'm really fortunate in this effect, my team
is absolutely phenomenal. And I think we'vegot a really good sense of psychological safety
within our team that everybody can, you know,feels like they can be themselves and ask questions.
But I always try when we're having a meetingwith somebody outside of our team or outside
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of our division, like if we're having a trainingor a meeting that's, you know, maybe a little
bit higher stakes. I always want to make surethat I ask questions because I want to set
the tone that I don't know everything aboutthis. and it is okay, that is why you are here.
You know, person from the general counsel'soffice, we want to learn and I'm gonna admit
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some of the mistakes we've made, the misstepswe've had, so that I can set that tone for
my team in each and every meeting that thisis okay. That's really great advice. You know,
one of the things that I've been thinking abouta lot lately is the art of the team meeting,
right? And so on my team, we have a structurewhere You know, we share our professional wins
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for the week. We share our challenges, but wealso, I also like them to share things that
are going on outside of work. Things that aregoing with their families or what their plans
are for the weekend. What are your, what's yourbest advice to leaders who want to have an
effective, productive team meeting that fosterspsychological safety? Vick, I feel like you're
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asking me to solve the unsolvable question.Oh, the staff meeting. I think it's. It can
be any number of those things. And I think there'sa little bit of trial and error. One of the
things that is suggested in psychological safetyresearch is making sure that everybody not
just has the opportunity to speak in a meeting,but knows that they will be asked to say something.
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That can depend on the kind of meeting it isfor sure. But I really wanted to make sure
that everybody, that we could, it's almost likepractice of, tell me something low stakes so
that we can practice. building psychologicalsafety. So in the beginning, I just asked everyone
for an update and what are you working on? Butthat kind of always led into one of our agenda
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items in our staff meeting. And so it just gota little bit messy and I feel like people weren't,
it wasn't adding anything, it was just makingthe meeting a little bit longer. So we had
a training with our diversity peer educatorsat Suffolk and they started off the training
by saying, introduce yourself and tell me, tellus something good that happened this week,
either personally or professionally. And I thought,well, that's a lot better because more people
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shared something personal than professional,which I thought was nice. Again, we don't all
have to be friends all the time and do thingsoutside of work together, but there's huge
value in recognizing our shared humanity and,you know, our wins. So, you know, something
as big as like, I finally found an apartmentor I took my dog to the beach this weekend.
Like, Those are nice things that kind of remindus all that we're humans. So I, we changed
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our staff meeting. I said, you know, what'ssomething good that happened this week? And
then after a conversation that you and I hadhad, I thought, well, maybe we can also offer
the space for like, what's something that you'restruggling with? Is there a challenge or something,
something not going well, but, you know, thevalue of a team is that you get to talk things
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out. being able to talk those things out withyour team, again, it can start to build psychological
safety if you say, I have this small low stakesproblem I'd like to talk, you know, you're
testing the waters to see how people respondto that. So there's a lot of strategies, and
I think giving your team the space to say, orasking them, is this helpful for you, or do
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you just wish that we were done so we couldactually have our meeting, you know, and listening
to that feedback too. Yeah, and actually takingaction on the feedback that's provided to you.
Yeah, that's huge. And I think to your pointabout leaders being infallible, I think if
we as leaders can bring the challenges thatwe're facing and admit those to our team in
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front of them, that kind of creates a spacewhere, or hopefully, they feel comfortable
bringing their challenges forward as well. Absolutely.And I think, too, that I will often ask my
team for advice. Some of the folks on my teamhave been at the university over 20 years,
some have been there for, you know, three years,some have been there for two months, but everybody
(24:02):
has experience in this field. So being ableto say, you know, I'm not sure what to do about
this. I'm, I'm mulling this over in my head.What do you think? Because again, as the leader
of the team, my decision is going to affectour team and it's going to affect the work
that we do for our students. So I want yourinput on it. I don't want to just present you
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a finalized deal and say, take it or leave it.I really want the input. But that also, soliciting
input like that also leads a team member tofeel buy-in to the decisions that do get made.
And feeling part of the process, I think, doescontribute to psychological safety. Wouldn't
you say? Absolutely. And I'm so glad you saidthat, Zach, because as I said, the other construct
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that I looked at in my dissertation was creativityand innovation. And one of the factors that
the particular model of creativity and innovationthat I that I used, they have something called
participative safety, which sounds like psychologicalsafety, it's related, it's not quite the same
thing, but essentially, it's that you feel likeyou can participate. And that's one of the
(25:09):
core pieces of that is exactly what you said,is that if you are participating in this creation
of ideas or this brainstorming or this implementationof ideas, then you will have more buy-in and
you are going to be. you're not going to bechecked out for it. And that's the worst thing
that we can have on our team is just checkedout. Absolutely. One of the reasons that I
love working in international education so muchis that diversity and diverse perspectives
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are inherent values to practitioners in ourfield. What role does diversity, equity, and
inclusion play when it comes to psychologicalsafety in the workplace? This is a great question.
And I think there's actually two questions here.there's what role does diversity, equity, and
inclusion play in psychological safety, andwhat role does psychological safety play in
diversity, equity, and inclusion? So as witha lot of things, our experiences shape how
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we interact at work and in the world. And ifyou are accustomed to not being listened to,
then you're not going to trust that you willbe listened to. And so As I said, it can take
time to build that and you have these small,all of these small moments that build a sense
of psychological safety. But it's really importantto remember that, often women and people of
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color are, they may be used to either A, notbeing listened to or being the only person
in the room that has that, everyone is lookingto you to be the representative of your entire
gender or your entire ethnic group. And, That'sa heavy burden to bear of I'm speaking for
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everyone. And sometimes it's easier just notto speak. And that's a right that people have
to say, I'm not going to be your token spokespersonon this. And that's absolutely fine. That's
a really tough burden to bear, to feel likeyou have to always be speaking for a large
group of people. It's really important for leadersto remember that you need to understand where
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people come from, everybody. But recognizingthe unfortunate and distinct challenges that
folks who are underrepresented in our fieldsor in higher education may have been facing
and still are facing. You know, we always saythat the average study abroad student is a
middle-class white female, and guess what? That'sa lot of our field, the professionals are.
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Wow, the practitioners as well. Yes, indeed.It's really important to make sure that we
are valuing people's experiences because thatcan... absolutely shape how they feel that
they will be received. Diversity, equity, andinclusion is about listening to and valuing
and amplifying diverse voices. And psychologicalsafety is a key to allowing those voices to
speak up. On the flip side, how does psychologicalsafety inform or support diversity, equity,
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and inclusion? Essentially, it just createstraction for DEI efforts to be successful.
DEI conversations are very nuanced, and we wantto give people the grace and the space to have
missteps, make mistakes, to listen, to learnand to be better. And within our teens, that's
(28:22):
really important to do. And psychological safetycan help create that space for people to learn
and to be better. You've shared so much todayabout how psychological safety can impact team
morale and just overall wellbeing at work. I'mcurious if we can connect this to education
abroad and student outcomes. How have in yourcareer you seen psychological safety in the
(28:47):
workplace enhance student outcomes? It is reallyimportant in all of the work that we do because
happier practitioners are better practitioners,but it does go beyond that. I've always said
that running a study abroad office is like runninga university in miniature. You're working with...
the academic departments, you're working withfinancial aid, you're working with the registrar,
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you're working with faculty, with housing, withdisability services, with coaching, all of
these different offices, which is one of thethings I really love about the field because
you really get to kind of work with everyoneacross the institution. And so the challenges
that higher education institutions are facing,we are facing in the field of education abroad,
perhaps even more because we are already, therecan sometimes be a feeling of this this being
(29:34):
an elite experience or it's optional, but itdoesn't feel optional for everybody. And so
there's more barriers that we need to breakdown. And so as far as how psychological safety
can support better student outcomes, there aresmall things, making small tweaks. Let's change
the wording of this question in our applicationto be more clear, to invite different responses.
(30:00):
Let's change the time of our study abroad orientationso that more students, you know, if they're
working, they can come or whatever it mightbe. Those small things that I think a lot of
times leaders, we might be a little bit removedfrom the day-to-day interactions with students.
And it's our advisors and our program managerswho are talking to students every day, and
(30:21):
they're hearing the challenges of the studentssay like, I wish I could come to this. I couldn't
come to the study abroad fair because it washere or because it was at this time. And so
in a team that's psychologically safe, that'sadvisor might say, hey, Amy, I was talking
to students and I feel like a lot of them havesaid, this is a challenge. Can we change that
somehow? That's huge, just to be able to makethat small change. We need to make sure that
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we are supporting all of our students and preparingthem well and recognizing that what we've always
done may not be enough anymore because our studentbody is not homogeneous anymore. And that disruption
of the status quo is that's what creativityand innovation is all about. It's the taking
(31:07):
the risk to try something new. And if you don'thave psychological safety in your team, you're
not gonna take those risks. You won't take theleap. That makes so much sense. Thank you for
sharing that, Amy. As we begin to wrap up here,I just have a few more questions for you, my
friend. When you think about the internationaleducation workplaces of the future, what trends
and shifts would you predict? One of the thingsthat has Impressed me so much over the past
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few years are all the new faces and all thenew voices that have come into our field following
the pandemic. So what would you say to themabout where we are going as a field in terms
of psychological safety? Our field is a reallysupportive and wonderful field. And so even
if you are a one person office and you mightbe thinking, well, I don't have a team. So
(31:54):
this is not relevant for me. We're all workingin teams of some sort, We do have colleagues,
as I mentioned before, our colleagues from theuniversity across the Cobbin, or our friends
from World Strides. Your wonderful World Stridescolleagues, yes. Yeah, I mean, and it sounds
sort of cheesy, and I'm not sucking up though,honestly. The providers in particular are working
(32:18):
with so many institutions that we might say,my gosh, we've been struggling with this issue
at Suffolk for years, and we just, I don't know,maybe this is just what it is. And then...
I might have a conversation with you and you'llsay, well, you know what, another university
was struggling with the same thing and theyactually did this. Oh my goodness, you know,
because we can't all go to NAFSA. We can't allgo to every session at every conference. That's
(32:41):
really important. And I think it's hard to sayhow psychological safety, where psychological
safety is going in our field. I'm just hopefulthat it's a construct that people will start
to know about. Because again, it's... We allknow what it is, even if we don't have the
name for it, but having a name for it is reallypowerful. And being able to name your experience
(33:05):
or your lack of experience with psychologicalsafety. And as far as the workplaces in the
future, I think we are going to see more remoteand hybrid work. Personally, I'm really interested
to see how that affects team psychological safetybecause- Yeah, yeah, it's a great topic. We
know that working completely remote and notbeing in person with your colleagues, is a
(33:25):
different experience. I'm not saying that it'sbetter or worse. I think a lot of us are really
thrilled to have remote or hybrid opportunities,but it's going to be different. And I'm really
interested to see what the research shows overthe years of how that impacts team psychological
safety. Well, hopefully after listening to thisepisode, our listeners will be able to name
(33:47):
this concept and where applicable change itand enhance outcomes for themselves and for
their students. I hope so. This has been sucha thoughtful and inspiring conversation, Amy.
And as we begin to wrap up here, I have onelast question for you. As you contemplate education
abroad in 2024, what makes you hopeful? Ourstudents. Honestly, I think there's the things
(34:12):
that we are doing, which is paying more attentionto diversity, equity, and inclusion, and trying
to bring more voices to the table. But our studentsare, as much as as old farts like me like to
say like, oh, this generation, they didn't knowwhat a cassette tape is. Kids today, right?
They don't know the difficulties of whatever.They're gonna change the world. I just see
(34:35):
how passionate they are about social justiceand about just standing up for each other.
And I think it was Trevor Noah who said, thisis a generation that's like, they wanna talk
to the manager of the world. They're like, no,I don't accept this. I wanna see your manager.
this needs to be better. And they're using thatpower for good. And if we can help as many
(35:00):
students as possible to have some sort of internationalexperience, whether it's traveling abroad themselves
or connecting with international students whoare on their campus, like there's no stopping
them. It's gonna be incredible. I can't imaginea better place to end things than right here.
Dr. Amy Yuen, thank you so much for being here.Thank you, Zach. This was wonderful. To our
(35:21):
listeners, Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Changing Lives Through Education
Abroad. I am your host, Zach McInnis, and pleasemake sure to join us next week as we continue
to explore topics around international educationin exchange. Thank you to my Spectacular World
Strides colleagues, Lindsay Kelscher and SarahKachuba, without whom this podcast would not
be possible. Please subscribe to Changing LivesThrough Education Abroad on Apple, Spotify,
(35:46):
or wherever you get your podcasts. And sharewith your friends and colleagues. Let's create
life-changing moments together.
We want to give people the grace and the spaceto have missteps, make mistakes, to listen,
to learn, and to be better. And within our teens,that's really important to do. And psychological
safety can help create that space for peopleto learn and to be better. Hello everyone.
(00:26):
Welcome to this episode of World Strides InauguralPodcast. Changing Lives Through Education Abroad,
a weekly series of conversations with internationaleducation's most interesting thought leaders,
as well as discussions on emerging trends, bestpractices, and innovation happening in our
field. I'm your host, Zapp McKinnis, and I amso excited for this week's episode. Today,
(00:51):
we're focusing on a pivotal yet often overlookedaspect of the international education workplace.
The concept of psychological safety and whyit matters. Psychological safety refers to
an individual's perception of the consequencesof taking an interpersonal risk or a belief
that a team is safe for risk-taking in the faceof being seen as ignorant, incompetent, negative,
(01:17):
or disruptive. In a team with high psychologicalsafety, members feel accepted and respected
and are comfortable being themselves at work.Psychological safety is the bedrock of innovation
and collaboration. It allows team members toshow up as who they are, voice their thoughts
and opinions without fear of judgment, and contributeto their team's collective goals. I am thrilled
(01:41):
to welcome my friend, Dr. Amy Ewen, onto thepodcast to unpack this topic with us. Amy is
the Director of International Education andStudy Away at Suffolk University in Boston.
Amy received her EDD in Educational Leadershipfrom Johnson and Wales University, where she
defended a dissertation on psychological safetyand the higher education workplace. So yeah,
(02:04):
I can't imagine a better person to help us explorethis topic. Stay tuned, dear listeners. You
do not want to miss this episode. Amy Ewen,welcome and thank you for being here. Thank
you so much, Zach. I'm thrilled to be here.To begin, I'd like to ask you to please give
us an overview of your career trajectory andthe education abroad ecosystem at Suffolk University.
(02:26):
As with a lot of international educators, I'veworked in a few places, come from different
backgrounds. That's what I love about our fieldis that we all come from various academic and
professional backgrounds and we've found ourway to international education. I have worked
at some provider organizations. I worked forthe International Student Exchange Program
in Washington, D.C. That was my first job inthe field. Through that, I learned a ton about
(02:52):
the industry, about incoming and outgoing students.And I was able to visit one of our partner
institutions, the University of Marburg in Germany,which actually sort of led to my plan to go
abroad for my master's degree. I returned toGermany for my master's at the University of
Kassel in Germany, which was a phenomenal experience,really international classroom. All of my classmates
(03:16):
were from many countries around the world. WhileI was there, I was fortunate to be able to
work on a research project. sponsored by theEuropean Science Foundation. So through that,
there were teams from Portugal and Finland inthe US and Germany and Japan and the UK. I
was so lucky to be able to learn from theseincredible researchers and professionals in
(03:38):
the field of higher education research and justsort of sit back and absorb the information
and watch the magic. One thing that I thinkwas sort of pivotal was at the end of that
research project. I said to my boss, okay, we'vedone this research, we've interviewed these
people, you know, what do we do now? And shesaid, we publish. And I said, great, then what
(04:01):
do we do? And she said, nothing. We give itto the practitioners and the administrators
and they will act upon these. And I thought,that is some BS, because I want to do something.
This is, we've, I've spent two years of my liferesearching this topic. I have ideas, I want
to do something. So that made me realize thatas much as I really like research, I also want
(04:27):
to do. I want to take the research and makethe actions. After I left Germany, I met my
now husband in my master's program. He is fromChile, so we moved to Chile for a few years
where I was very fortunate to get to know theChilean higher education system a bit better.
My colleagues and I had founded an organization,a consulting organization. So we were able
(04:50):
to work with Chilean universities, which wasa great opportunity to just sort of see internationalization
in a new context. And I returned to the UnitedStates in 2012. I worked for Johnston-Wales
University for several years. I taught at ProvidenceCollege. I taught a class on study abroad in
their master's program, which was a wonderfulexperience and a new experience for me in that
(05:15):
I might have this information and I might havethis knowledge in my head. But getting it out
of my head in an organized and clear way tobring others into the field was a challenge,
but a really wonderful challenge. And now Iam the director of, as you said, the director
of International Education and Study Away atSuffolk in Boston, which is, I don't wanna
say it's the culmination of my career becauseI hope I have many years ahead of me, but it
(05:39):
is absolutely the best place for me to be rightnow. I feel that all of the folks that I have
worked with and worked for over the years, hasgiven me the information, the strength, the
mentorship to bring my absolute best professionalself into this role. Thank you, Amy. So well
said. I know one of your professional passionsis psychological safety. And that's of course
(06:04):
the topic that we're talking about today. Forour listeners who might be less familiar, what
does psychological safety mean to you? It'sessentially, as you said in the introduction,
is people feeling that they can ask questions,disagree, admit mistakes, and there won't be
(06:26):
any professional repercussions for that. Andwhen I try to explain that to folks, it can
sound sort of dry, because when you think ofrepercussions, you may not get fired for asking
a question. But if we think about a scenariothat we've all been in, where you're in a staff
meeting, or you're in a meeting with your team,And you say, you know what, I didn't really
(06:50):
understand this. Can you clarify? There's reallytwo ways that can go. Either your team and
your manager can say, oh sure, yeah, let's talkthat out and make sure that you understand.
And you feel like, oh good, I'm allowed to askthat simple question. The other option is,
I'm sorry, you didn't understand. Well, thatsounds like a you problem. And you know, those
(07:14):
two binary, responses, of course there's grayin the middle, but that's kind of a lack of
psychological safety or a presence of psychologicalsafety. And what's interesting about psychological
safety to me is that it doesn't have to happento you. You know what, I'm going to use an
example from my own professional career. I bookedour student group into the wrong airport, which
(07:37):
I have done. If you say that in a meeting, that'sa risk that you're taking. As you said, you
know, you have that mute. you risk being seenas ignorant when you make that mistake. And
if your supervisor says, are you kidding? Youhave any idea how much this is going to cost
us? We don't have anything left in the budget.And you're watching this interaction happen
(07:58):
to your team member. When you make a mistake,do you really think you're gonna admit it?
Do you really think you're gonna stick yourneck out? Absolutely not. It's so fascinating
to me as a team construct because it really,if one person on the team doesn't feel like
the team is psychologically safe, then it'snot. It's such an important cornerstone for
being able to build a team that is going togo above and beyond the status quo and just
(08:25):
people coming to work and just keeping theirnose down and not trying to cause any waves.
Is that what we want? No, absolutely not. Sothat's one of the things I think is so fascinating
about it. And for me, I became interested inthe construct when my work situation went from
being one that was psychologically safe. toone that was not. And plain and simple, I grappled
(08:48):
with what I was feeling because again, not havinga name for this, you say like, I just, it feels
bad now. Why does it feel bad? And I came acrossa study that Google had done actually, it was
called Project Aristotle, that they wanted tofind out what makes the most successful teams.
And they looked at every factor you can imagine,age, cultural diversity, generations. male,
(09:13):
female, you know, everything you could imagine.And the one factor that was always common consistently
in successful teams was psychological safety.But she said, I like who you shared a story
about booking in the wrong airport. I've madethe same mistake. I was once leading a group
of colleagues to Melbourne, Australia. And thatwas the day I learned that Melbourne in fact
(09:33):
has two airports, not one. So these things happenin our field and as many plane tickets and
airfares that I've coordinated, mistakes happen.And I think it's important to face up to them
when they do. And that's how we learn is fromthose mistakes. And I think Elmer Roosevelt
said, you know, learn from your mistakes. I'mparaphrasing very badly. Learn from your mistakes.
(09:57):
You don't have enough time to make all the mistakesto learn from other people's mistakes too.
I love that. What are some examples of how psychologicalsafety can positively impact team dynamics
and productivity. Well, as I said, it's sortof the cornerstone or the base of a team that
is willing to, not just willing, is able tohave conversations that are not easy. And there's
(10:22):
a couple of things that I think sort of getmixed in with the conversation of psychological
safety constructs that we're all a little bitmore familiar with that are related but very
different. And so sometimes talking about whatpsychological safety is, it's helpful just
to show what it's not. It's related to trust,but it isn't the same as trust. Trust is the
(10:45):
willingness to be vulnerable to the actionsof others. And the sort of key difference is
that with trust, you are willing to give someoneelse the benefit of the doubt. With psychological
safety, you are expecting that they will giveyou the benefit of the doubt. And so trust
is important in teams. And so you can trustpeople on your team, but still your team may
(11:07):
not have that psychological safety. It's alsodifferent from cohesion. Group cohesion is
defined as your commitment to the team, thetask, and each other. And that's a great thing,
but it can also sometimes lead to group thinkand team pride or our team versus this team.
(11:27):
It's actually been shown too that having badmanagers can increase team cohesion because
it's sort of the whole team having this sameexperience of like, wow, our manager really
sucks. So that's a pitfall that you want tobe careful of. And it's also different from
team efficacy, which is just the belief thatyou can complete a task. But the psychological
safety is so related to all of these thingsand it's often an antecedent of some of these
(11:51):
things. Psychological safety is so informedby leader behavior. Because it's when you're
thinking about these professional repercussions,there's a hierarchy there that we're all aware
of. And somebody who is professionally evaluatingyou, if you don't feel like you are able to,
(12:11):
again, ask a question, disagree respectfully,admit a mistake or offer a new idea, you're
not going to do that. And my, my research focusedon psychological safety and creativity and
innovation, which will. We'll talk about whythat's really important in higher education
and in education abroad in particular, but beingcreative necessarily means taking risks and
(12:35):
offering a new idea and trying something andpossibly failing. And if going back to the
core of it, if you don't feel like it's okayto fail, you're not going to offer those ideas.
There's so many other things that can happenin a workplace, you know, where there's a perceived
lack of safety and other than termination, right?There's a loss of potential professional development
(12:56):
opportunities or so many different repercussionsthat a team member could fear that it might
prohibit them from being their authentic selves.Many of our listeners might be thinking that
they'd like to bring some of these ideas totheir teams or colleagues, even if change at
the leadership level might not be immediatelypossible. What are some small steps that anyone
(13:17):
can take towards building trusted morale ona team? What's wonderful about psychological
safety, as I said, is that it is a team-levelconstruct. So we may all have thought about
our own work situations where your team feelspsychologically safe, but you can see another
work team is clearly does not have that. We've,you know, I've been in that situation too.
Within your own team, it is, as I said, it isa team-level construct, but there are things
(13:44):
that you can do as sort of a dyadic relationshipor, you know, amongst just your team members.
Because it does come so much from leadershipbehavior, that that's super complicated to
change. Because again, maybe in a psychologicallysafe environment, you would feel comfortable
talking to your supervisor, but you know, chickenin the egg, which comes first. Talking with
(14:06):
your colleagues and having that relationshipwith them that, you know, maybe you can't bring
your idea to the whole team, but if you feellike you can bring it to one or two people
on your team, and... you'll be listened to andthey'll ask constructive questions. And if
they disagree with you, or if they give youcritical feedback, you won't be ascended by
(14:28):
it. That's a psychologically safe relationshipright there. And then if one of you has the
guts to say something in a larger meeting, toask a question, admit a mistake, knowing that
your teammates will have your back and say,you know, I didn't understand that either,
or I agree, I would like to explore this further,just knowing, and sometimes it's even as much
(14:53):
as explicitly asking for that, saying, if Idisagree with this move that we're making,
will you not sit there silently? Because that'sthe worst. Even if you voice something where
you say, I don't totally agree, but I want totalk more about this, that's one of the beauties
of psychological safety is that it lets youhave these task conflicts. that don't devolve
(15:19):
into relationship conflict. And that's one ofthe dangers of a lack of psychological safety.
Task conflicts, not devolving into relationshipconflicts. That's a really interesting concept.
What is some of your advice? If there's anypractitioners listening who may have a disagreement
with someone on their team, whether perhapsit's about the structure or pre-departure orientation,
(15:41):
or a program portfolio list, or... the way thestudy abroad fair is laid out, or could there
be any number of things? How do we keep ourselvesfrom letting a task conflict devolve into a
relationship conflict? What are your pro tipsthere? It's a cop out to say, if you have a
sense of psychological safety on your team,you are able to have those conversations. And
(16:04):
I don't just mean there you fixed it. I mean,you can say, look, I think this would be better.
You think this would be better. We both havethe same goal. We both want a great study abroad
fair. We both want to prepare our students fora successful time abroad. Let's talk about
it. And verbally saying that this is not aboutyou. This is not a relationship conflict. I'm
(16:28):
not trying to undermine you. And to back upfor a bit, if you find that you are actually
trying to undermine that person, then it's notabout the, it's not about the task. It's not
about the task. Yeah. That is some. That's somesoul searching that you need to do on your
own. And I'm not saying that relationship conflictwon't happen or that you're a failure if it
(16:51):
does happen. It just means recognizing it forwhat it is. And you may be able to talk with
your manager and say, we are having this conflictor I'm having this conflict with somebody.
I don't want to let it affect our professionalrelationship. I don't wanna let it affect our
work and I definitely don't wanna let it affectour students. Being able to recognize it and
(17:14):
see that in ourselves, I think is really important.And then also calling out when you do have
a successful discussion or a successful disagreementabout a task at hand, giving yourself credit
for that, both all of you and recognizing, I'mreally proud of us for the way that we handled
this. And reminding, again, reminding ourselvesthat this was about the task and we're all
(17:39):
on the same team. We're all, we all want towin the championship. We all want to get students
abroad. That was some really fantastic advicefor the practitioners who are listening. Amy,
thank you for that. I'm curious about your thoughtsfor the leaders who are listening. What can
leaders in education abroad do to foster anatmosphere of psychological safety? Well, the
(17:59):
leaders are really the sort of the key to itall because whether we like it or not, we are
setting the tone for our team. And it's notjust about the way you react when somebody
admits a mistake, asks a question, proposesan idea, disagrees. It's also doing that yourself.
(18:20):
And I found that admitting mistakes is a reallypowerful way to do that because as a leader,
you're expected to offer new ideas. As a leader,you're expected to disagree. The other two
that are sort of the more, I don't wanna saypassive, but. Asking questions and admitting
(18:40):
mistakes, those are a little bit more vulnerablesometimes. And those are kind of the first
two steps in building a psychologically safeteam is first you feel like you have the safety
to ask a question. The next step is the safetyto admit a mistake and then and so on and it
sort of builds on itself. So I have always triedto admit my mistakes and say like, wow, I really,
(19:06):
really screwed that one up. you know, even ifit's a mistake that I made yesterday or a mistake
I made three years ago, because if one of myteam members makes a mistake and I can say,
well, okay, we're gonna learn from that, likenow we know, let me tell you about the time
that I did this. So it sort of breaks down thatillusion that the leader is supposed to be
infallible. And I think that goes a really,really long way. When you see your leader admit
(19:31):
a mistake or admit that they don't know something.I'm really fortunate in this effect, my team
is absolutely phenomenal. And I think we'vegot a really good sense of psychological safety
within our team that everybody can, you know,feels like they can be themselves and ask questions.
But I always try when we're having a meetingwith somebody outside of our team or outside
(19:54):
of our division, like if we're having a trainingor a meeting that's, you know, maybe a little
bit higher stakes. I always want to make surethat I ask questions because I want to set
the tone that I don't know everything aboutthis. and it is okay, that is why you are here.
You know, person from the general counsel'soffice, we want to learn and I'm gonna admit
(20:16):
some of the mistakes we've made, the misstepswe've had, so that I can set that tone for
my team in each and every meeting that thisis okay. That's really great advice. You know,
one of the things that I've been thinking abouta lot lately is the art of the team meeting,
right? And so on my team, we have a structurewhere You know, we share our professional wins
(20:39):
for the week. We share our challenges, but wealso, I also like them to share things that
are going on outside of work. Things that aregoing with their families or what their plans
are for the weekend. What are your, what's yourbest advice to leaders who want to have an
effective, productive team meeting that fosterspsychological safety? Vick, I feel like you're
(20:59):
asking me to solve the unsolvable question.Oh, the staff meeting. I think it's. It can
be any number of those things. And I think there'sa little bit of trial and error. One of the
things that is suggested in psychological safetyresearch is making sure that everybody not
just has the opportunity to speak in a meeting,but knows that they will be asked to say something.
(21:21):
That can depend on the kind of meeting it isfor sure. But I really wanted to make sure
that everybody, that we could, it's almost likepractice of, tell me something low stakes so
that we can practice. building psychologicalsafety. So in the beginning, I just asked everyone
for an update and what are you working on? Butthat kind of always led into one of our agenda
(21:46):
items in our staff meeting. And so it just gota little bit messy and I feel like people weren't,
it wasn't adding anything, it was just makingthe meeting a little bit longer. So we had
a training with our diversity peer educatorsat Suffolk and they started off the training
by saying, introduce yourself and tell me, tellus something good that happened this week,
either personally or professionally. And I thought,well, that's a lot better because more people
(22:11):
shared something personal than professional,which I thought was nice. Again, we don't all
have to be friends all the time and do thingsoutside of work together, but there's huge
value in recognizing our shared humanity and,you know, our wins. So, you know, something
as big as like, I finally found an apartmentor I took my dog to the beach this weekend.
Like, Those are nice things that kind of remindus all that we're humans. So I, we changed
(22:37):
our staff meeting. I said, you know, what'ssomething good that happened this week? And
then after a conversation that you and I hadhad, I thought, well, maybe we can also offer
the space for like, what's something that you'restruggling with? Is there a challenge or something,
something not going well, but, you know, thevalue of a team is that you get to talk things
(22:57):
out. being able to talk those things out withyour team, again, it can start to build psychological
safety if you say, I have this small low stakesproblem I'd like to talk, you know, you're
testing the waters to see how people respondto that. So there's a lot of strategies, and
I think giving your team the space to say, orasking them, is this helpful for you, or do
(23:20):
you just wish that we were done so we couldactually have our meeting, you know, and listening
to that feedback too. Yeah, and actually takingaction on the feedback that's provided to you.
Yeah, that's huge. And I think to your pointabout leaders being infallible, I think if
we as leaders can bring the challenges thatwe're facing and admit those to our team in
(23:40):
front of them, that kind of creates a spacewhere, or hopefully, they feel comfortable
bringing their challenges forward as well. Absolutely.And I think, too, that I will often ask my
team for advice. Some of the folks on my teamhave been at the university over 20 years,
some have been there for, you know, three years,some have been there for two months, but everybody
(24:02):
has experience in this field. So being ableto say, you know, I'm not sure what to do about
this. I'm, I'm mulling this over in my head.What do you think? Because again, as the leader
of the team, my decision is going to affectour team and it's going to affect the work
that we do for our students. So I want yourinput on it. I don't want to just present you
(24:23):
a finalized deal and say, take it or leave it.I really want the input. But that also, soliciting
input like that also leads a team member tofeel buy-in to the decisions that do get made.
And feeling part of the process, I think, doescontribute to psychological safety. Wouldn't
you say? Absolutely. And I'm so glad you saidthat, Zach, because as I said, the other construct
(24:45):
that I looked at in my dissertation was creativityand innovation. And one of the factors that
the particular model of creativity and innovationthat I that I used, they have something called
participative safety, which sounds like psychologicalsafety, it's related, it's not quite the same
thing, but essentially, it's that you feel likeyou can participate. And that's one of the
(25:09):
core pieces of that is exactly what you said,is that if you are participating in this creation
of ideas or this brainstorming or this implementationof ideas, then you will have more buy-in and
you are going to be. you're not going to bechecked out for it. And that's the worst thing
that we can have on our team is just checkedout. Absolutely. One of the reasons that I
love working in international education so muchis that diversity and diverse perspectives
(25:34):
are inherent values to practitioners in ourfield. What role does diversity, equity, and
inclusion play when it comes to psychologicalsafety in the workplace? This is a great question.
And I think there's actually two questions here.there's what role does diversity, equity, and
inclusion play in psychological safety, andwhat role does psychological safety play in
diversity, equity, and inclusion? So as witha lot of things, our experiences shape how
(26:00):
we interact at work and in the world. And ifyou are accustomed to not being listened to,
then you're not going to trust that you willbe listened to. And so As I said, it can take
time to build that and you have these small,all of these small moments that build a sense
of psychological safety. But it's really importantto remember that, often women and people of
(26:24):
color are, they may be used to either A, notbeing listened to or being the only person
in the room that has that, everyone is lookingto you to be the representative of your entire
gender or your entire ethnic group. And, That'sa heavy burden to bear of I'm speaking for
(26:45):
everyone. And sometimes it's easier just notto speak. And that's a right that people have
to say, I'm not going to be your token spokespersonon this. And that's absolutely fine. That's
a really tough burden to bear, to feel likeyou have to always be speaking for a large
group of people. It's really important for leadersto remember that you need to understand where
(27:09):
people come from, everybody. But recognizingthe unfortunate and distinct challenges that
folks who are underrepresented in our fieldsor in higher education may have been facing
and still are facing. You know, we always saythat the average study abroad student is a
middle-class white female, and guess what? That'sa lot of our field, the professionals are.
(27:34):
Wow, the practitioners as well. Yes, indeed.It's really important to make sure that we
are valuing people's experiences because thatcan... absolutely shape how they feel that
they will be received. Diversity, equity, andinclusion is about listening to and valuing
and amplifying diverse voices. And psychologicalsafety is a key to allowing those voices to
speak up. On the flip side, how does psychologicalsafety inform or support diversity, equity,
(28:00):
and inclusion? Essentially, it just createstraction for DEI efforts to be successful.
DEI conversations are very nuanced, and we wantto give people the grace and the space to have
missteps, make mistakes, to listen, to learnand to be better. And within our teens, that's
(28:22):
really important to do. And psychological safetycan help create that space for people to learn
and to be better. You've shared so much todayabout how psychological safety can impact team
morale and just overall wellbeing at work. I'mcurious if we can connect this to education
abroad and student outcomes. How have in yourcareer you seen psychological safety in the
(28:47):
workplace enhance student outcomes? It is reallyimportant in all of the work that we do because
happier practitioners are better practitioners,but it does go beyond that. I've always said
that running a study abroad office is like runninga university in miniature. You're working with...
the academic departments, you're working withfinancial aid, you're working with the registrar,
(29:08):
you're working with faculty, with housing, withdisability services, with coaching, all of
these different offices, which is one of thethings I really love about the field because
you really get to kind of work with everyoneacross the institution. And so the challenges
that higher education institutions are facing,we are facing in the field of education abroad,
perhaps even more because we are already, therecan sometimes be a feeling of this this being
(29:34):
an elite experience or it's optional, but itdoesn't feel optional for everybody. And so
there's more barriers that we need to breakdown. And so as far as how psychological safety
can support better student outcomes, there aresmall things, making small tweaks. Let's change
the wording of this question in our applicationto be more clear, to invite different responses.
(30:00):
Let's change the time of our study abroad orientationso that more students, you know, if they're
working, they can come or whatever it mightbe. Those small things that I think a lot of
times leaders, we might be a little bit removedfrom the day-to-day interactions with students.
And it's our advisors and our program managerswho are talking to students every day, and
(30:21):
they're hearing the challenges of the studentssay like, I wish I could come to this. I couldn't
come to the study abroad fair because it washere or because it was at this time. And so
in a team that's psychologically safe, that'sadvisor might say, hey, Amy, I was talking
to students and I feel like a lot of them havesaid, this is a challenge. Can we change that
somehow? That's huge, just to be able to makethat small change. We need to make sure that
(30:45):
we are supporting all of our students and preparingthem well and recognizing that what we've always
done may not be enough anymore because our studentbody is not homogeneous anymore. And that disruption
of the status quo is that's what creativityand innovation is all about. It's the taking
(31:07):
the risk to try something new. And if you don'thave psychological safety in your team, you're
not gonna take those risks. You won't take theleap. That makes so much sense. Thank you for
sharing that, Amy. As we begin to wrap up here,I just have a few more questions for you, my
friend. When you think about the internationaleducation workplaces of the future, what trends
and shifts would you predict? One of the thingsthat has Impressed me so much over the past
(31:30):
few years are all the new faces and all thenew voices that have come into our field following
the pandemic. So what would you say to themabout where we are going as a field in terms
of psychological safety? Our field is a reallysupportive and wonderful field. And so even
if you are a one person office and you mightbe thinking, well, I don't have a team. So
(31:54):
this is not relevant for me. We're all workingin teams of some sort, We do have colleagues,
as I mentioned before, our colleagues from theuniversity across the Cobbin, or our friends
from World Strides. Your wonderful World Stridescolleagues, yes. Yeah, I mean, and it sounds
sort of cheesy, and I'm not sucking up though,honestly. The providers in particular are working
(32:18):
with so many institutions that we might say,my gosh, we've been struggling with this issue
at Suffolk for years, and we just, I don't know,maybe this is just what it is. And then...
I might have a conversation with you and you'llsay, well, you know what, another university
was struggling with the same thing and theyactually did this. Oh my goodness, you know,
because we can't all go to NAFSA. We can't allgo to every session at every conference. That's
(32:41):
really important. And I think it's hard to sayhow psychological safety, where psychological
safety is going in our field. I'm just hopefulthat it's a construct that people will start
to know about. Because again, it's... We allknow what it is, even if we don't have the
name for it, but having a name for it is reallypowerful. And being able to name your experience
(33:05):
or your lack of experience with psychologicalsafety. And as far as the workplaces in the
future, I think we are going to see more remoteand hybrid work. Personally, I'm really interested
to see how that affects team psychological safetybecause- Yeah, yeah, it's a great topic. We
know that working completely remote and notbeing in person with your colleagues, is a
(33:25):
different experience. I'm not saying that it'sbetter or worse. I think a lot of us are really
thrilled to have remote or hybrid opportunities,but it's going to be different. And I'm really
interested to see what the research shows overthe years of how that impacts team psychological
safety. Well, hopefully after listening to thisepisode, our listeners will be able to name
(33:47):
this concept and where applicable change itand enhance outcomes for themselves and for
their students. I hope so. This has been sucha thoughtful and inspiring conversation, Amy.
And as we begin to wrap up here, I have onelast question for you. As you contemplate education
abroad in 2024, what makes you hopeful? Ourstudents. Honestly, I think there's the things
(34:12):
that we are doing, which is paying more attentionto diversity, equity, and inclusion, and trying
to bring more voices to the table. But our studentsare, as much as as old farts like me like to
say like, oh, this generation, they didn't knowwhat a cassette tape is. Kids today, right?
They don't know the difficulties of whatever.They're gonna change the world. I just see
(34:35):
how passionate they are about social justiceand about just standing up for each other.
And I think it was Trevor Noah who said, thisis a generation that's like, they wanna talk
to the manager of the world. They're like, no,I don't accept this. I wanna see your manager.
this needs to be better. And they're using thatpower for good. And if we can help as many
(35:00):
students as possible to have some sort of internationalexperience, whether it's traveling abroad themselves
or connecting with international students whoare on their campus, like there's no stopping
them. It's gonna be incredible. I can't imaginea better place to end things than right here.
Dr. Amy Yuen, thank you so much for being here.Thank you, Zach. This was wonderful. To our
(35:21):
listeners, Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Changing Lives Through Education
Abroad. I am your host, Zach McInnis, and pleasemake sure to join us next week as we continue
to explore topics around international educationin exchange. Thank you to my Spectacular World
Strides colleagues, Lindsay Kelscher and SarahKachuba, without whom this podcast would not
be possible. Please subscribe to Changing LivesThrough Education Abroad on Apple, Spotify,
(35:46):
or wherever you get your podcasts. And sharewith your friends and colleagues. Let's create
life-changing moments together.
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