February 11, 2025 • 18 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Brandon and Tom share key takeaways they took from attending the Be the Better Broker Conference in Whistler, and how they hope to apply them to their business.
Brandon and Tom discuss: → Why you need to be learning how to use A.I. and what you should be using it for. → Emotional vs logical decision making in sales and how this will impact their discovery calls. → The future of the Canadian economy and how you can calm your clients nerves around it's uncertainty.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom
Moffitt.
We are back from the Be The Better
Broker event in Whistler, andwe're going to share some key
takeaways we had today.
If you're watching on YouTube, you
can see this.
If you're listening, you can't,
but I've got a non -alcoholicCorona and Tom is drinking some
nasty green juice.
So we're all health focused over
(00:22):
here.
And today we're going to share
some stuff that I think ishelping.
the health of our business andwill help the health of yours as
well.
I witnessed Brandon crush like
probably five non -alcoholic beersin like 40 minutes last Friday.
You could tell I was reallycraving a regular pint, but we
were in like this picture perfectspot, second terminal of the
(00:43):
Vancouver airport waiting for aflight, just watching all the
float planes take off.
If you were to get drunk
somewhere, that would be like theideal spot.
Obviously, I'm not drinking untilTango hits a billion dollars
funded.
So I was having non -alcoholic
beers instead, but it was stillnice.
I was close, was close, man.
I was this close to getting you to
have a real drink, but I'm glad Ididn't convince you because I
(01:05):
would feel really bad.
You can't tell me.
You can't tell me.
I'm ironclad in my resolution.
You were close, man.
You were close.
were close.
Anyways, we digress.
Yeah.
I mean, like from a conference
perspective, I haven't reallybeen.
to too many of like that style ofconferences like i've been mpc and
in other industry generalconferences but this one was more
of like a i don't call like highticket but it was more of an
(01:29):
expensive entry to get into anddustin had like a pretty sweet
lineup of a variety of differenttopics which was really cool and
it wasn't like totally mortgage-specific content.
Of course, everything was gearedtowards mortgage brokers in the
industry.
But to give you an example, one of
the speakers was more of like amindset.
health guru.
And one of the other speakers was
(01:49):
more of like an overall generalsales professional and really good
strategy person when it comes tosales.
So we had a lot of differenttakeaways.
Well, we'll dive into it.
But a lot of it for me was more so
a realization that I should beattacking certain things that have
been on my mind.
So that was kind of the general
theme for me.
I think, Brandon, you have other
(02:10):
takeaways, but why don't we diveinto the ones you wrote down and
go from there?Yeah.
And just before we go into things,Dustin had a really cool way of
getting everyone to really open upfrom a speaker perspective.
And it was called like ChathamHouse Rules.
So you can talk about what wastalked about at the conference,
but you can't attribute quotes oranything to anyone.
So in the spirit of that, we willdo the same on the podcast, just
honoring his request there.
(02:31):
It was really great because a lot
of speakers were from quite highup positions in different scopes
of industry.
And they were.
very open to just sharing with theroom because they weren't worried
about someone going and saying,person X said this, and then
getting themselves in trouble downthe line.
So we got a lot of insights fromthat.
And it was just a really coolformat to get people to actually
(02:51):
be really transparent with stuff.
Yeah, I forgot about that.
So thank you for reminding me.
I'm pretty bad with names anyways.
So I don't think I'll have thatproblem.
But let's go into your firstpoint.
What do you got here?Yeah, so this one's probably...
Something that a lot of you areanxious about, and that is AI.
And one of the presentations, itwas a double header on going
really deep on how to use AI inthe business.
(03:12):
And one thing it just reallystrengthened my position on, I've
been leaning into AI quite a bit,as has Tom.
And our position and viewpoint isthat you can't ignore it.
And the conference really remindedus of this.
They shared that the...
People who say they're not going
to use AI or that AI is evil andit's not going to have a role in
their business are the same peoplewho said they won't use the
(03:35):
internet or they wouldn't usesocial media.
And now, you know, we're all overboth.
So with AI, a key piece that theconference really reminded me is
that everyone needs to getcomfortable with it on a base
level.
You don't need to.
Use it for everything in yourbusiness.
But get comfortable with theplatforms.
Get comfortable with the tools.
Because if you don't, there's
going to be that knowledge gap.
And you'll experience a really
(03:55):
hard time trying to catch up andclose that at the speed at which
AI is moving.
It's here to stay.
You may as well jump on board inthe early phases and get ahead of
anyone else.
I'm guilty of leaving this for so
long.
I wish I jumped on it a year ago
when it started becoming really,really popular.
And the biggest reason why Iavoided it was I felt like it was
(04:17):
a bit overwhelming and that Ididn't have enough time to learn
it where, I mean, both of thoseare excuses.
I mean, you can go on YouTube andfollow a couple of creators that
are all about like chat GPTmastery and literally learn
anything you want within fourhours of hyper learning.
Like to give you an example, whenwe were at the conference, again,
I forget his name, so I'm notgoing to blast his name anyways,
(04:37):
but.
Everyone was feeling that kind of
overwhelming feeling when thepresenter was talking and going
through all of his PowerPoints.
And it was really, really awesome
stuff.
But I did feel a bit of that
overwhelm.
And I've been diving deep on it
for the last six months.
One of the comments he made that
will stick with me is the earlystages of his journey.
He felt that he was almost... onan even level playing field with
(04:59):
everyone else.
And he was kind of depressed about
it because he realized everyonehas access to all of these
different AI tools and that hewasn't special, that everyone's
going to catch on to it.
And then it's just going to be
like, everyone is on the sameplaying ground.
But he talked to his mentor andthe mentor mentioned to him, you
know what, don't worry about thatbecause basically not everyone's
going to execute.
(05:20):
Everyone's going to dabble with it
and they're not going to take itas serious as you are.
And that... hit home for me afterthe person next to me basically
confirmed that statement.
He's like, man, that was a great
presentation, but I feel like it'stoo much to learn.
It's going to take too long.
I'm like, fuck, there you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can get all of these insightsand all of the strategies and
everything in the world, but ifyou don't action any of it, you're
(05:42):
on the... exact same position.
And a lot of people I see posting
on different groups and saying inmeetings, I'm really concerned
about AI replacing me in theindustry.
Is the mortgage broker going tohave a role in this space?
And what I really liked about howthat presenter framed it is he's
like, use AI to support you, butthen allow that to get you in
front of clients more.
(06:02):
So what people try to do is they
try to use AI and make like asimulation of themselves and
that's going to talk to theirclients and they're in the
background working behind thescenes.
He's like, that's the wrong way toapproach it.
Instead, use AI to back you up.
So it's helping with your emails,
it's helping with creatingmarketing materials, helping with
that stuff.
But that extra time you have
(06:23):
allows you to get more FaceTime,more human interaction, more
conversations with your actualclients.
You're the face of the brand.
It's going to be like that even
more so as we approach more of theAI era.
So like you said, let it do 80 %of the work upfront for you when
it comes to creative thinking,getting the framework for social
media, emails, whatever theapplication is that you're looking
to use it for.
(06:43):
Let it do 80 % of the work.
Then I believe...
This is coming from him.
I believe the next 15 % is youcurating the content and going
through it.
The last 15 % is asking ChatGPT to
review everything and polish it.
I believe that was the framework
he used, right?You're a little over 100 there,
but the percentage would be 80 %AI creating, 15 % editing, and
(07:04):
then you feed it back the last 5 %to like ChatGPT.
I said 80, 15, 5, didn't I?Now you went 80 -15.
It's okay.
It's okay.
It's okay.
You were thinking basis points.
You're all good.
There you go, man.
Money's on my mind.
Yeah.
So yeah, getting in front ofpeople and having that more human
connection really segued into thenext one, which honest to God, Tom
(07:27):
and I almost skipped because wewere a little bit like tapped out.
of conference mode at that point.
We were like, oh, let's just go
sit and talk about some of thethings better to implement than
overwhelm our brains.
But we're like, screw it.
We're going to sit in.
And this was a sales presentation.
And she talked a lot aboutemotional versus logical decision
(07:49):
making.
And so many clients come to us in
emotional settings.
They're buying a home or they're
refinancing or they're in like adebt crisis.
interact with them in very logicalterms so we're like what's your
income what's your budget likewe're very numbers based and
logical and they're making anemotional decision we're coming at
them with logic And it's not thebest way to sell.
The best way to sell is to appealto them on an emotional level and
(08:11):
then have the logic to back it up.
So they buy through emotion, but
they use logic to back it up.
And this reframe, like both Tom
and I were looking at each otherlike discovery call, like this
part of the business, likeeverything.
We're like, we're looking at itall wrong.
And I just tested this prior torecording this podcast.
(08:34):
I just had a call with a client.
And rather than doing my
traditional discovery call of likegetting all the data points, going
through essentially.
what would be the application?
I just chatted with them abouttheir goals and where they were at
and all this stuff.
And it ended up being like a half
an hour conversation where theywere like, so -and -so in my
network's a realtor.
I want to connect them with you.
(08:55):
Our son wants to buy in a coupleof years.
Is it okay if we give him yourcontact?
And it was just a radicallydifferent experience from just
trying to process one application.
Yeah, there you go.
I think this industry, we've kindof been set in our way over the
years of just being taught like,have a 15 minute discovery call,
go through all of your points andyour questions regarding income,
down payment, credit, just get theinformation, get off the phone and
(09:15):
send them the app.
I feel like we've been stuck in
that way for so long that there'sa different way of doing it.
And this is what I mean by thetopics and presenters being more
generalized than very specific andgranular in the mortgage industry,
because it took us to off the topof our head, that discovery call
was going to be the most importantimplementing this style of sales
and conversations.
So I think if you can create a
model where you have enoughinformation upfront, but you can
have that... one -to -one bond andthat storytelling communication
(09:36):
with that client and then figureout the rest of the pieces along
the way, whether it's just gettingit from the application or doing
something unique like having ascreening process while they book
the call to get all theinformation you need, all the data
points, and then you just use thediscovery call as that bonding
moment with that client.
Yeah, for sure.
And another key thing she touchedon was that The emotional side
(09:57):
sells, but so do stories.
So make sure you have stories to
back things up.
But a key point she added here is
when your story goes for more thanfour sentences, you start to lose
people.
Get your stories.
Think about certain ones.
If you have a story about first
-time homebuyers, if you have astory about a time that someone
(10:18):
chose a higher rate because theprepayment privileges were better,
whatever it is that you need inyour storybook, let's call it,
have those ready, get them dialedin so they're no more than four
sentences, and just pull them outand say them as you need them.
Yeah.
And she did mention relate the
story to the question you justasked and that you prompted.
I feel that way with stories too.
(10:39):
I try to get to the point and
sometimes like you do skip overimportant details, but try to keep
it into that four sentencestructure is going to be key.
So you're not going to lose themand drag the conversation on.
Exactly.
So I would encourage you to take a
look at the questions you ask yourclients and just say, is this an
emotional question or is this alogical question?
(10:59):
And see where you can mix in somemore emotional questions there
because you will build a betterconnection with that client.
It'll be stickier and it will be amore referable experience because
they'll feel connected to you asan individual versus just another
person trying to sell a mortgage.
Yeah, as any topics or strategies
that we talk about here, we'regoing to be implementing this in
our business and we're going toreport back how it goes.
(11:20):
For sure.
Next one is touching on sort of
the broader economics of thecountry and where Canada is at as
a whole.
And when there's an economist or
someone from the government there,my initial like knee jerk reaction
is to like glaze over and be superbored.
And Dustin did a fantastic job offinding people that were very
engaging and super knowledgeableand the education.
I left that feeling so much moreconfident speaking about tariffs,
speaking about broader Canadianpolicy and government, where it's
(11:41):
headed.
And that was great.
And I'm not going to be able tocapture what they said in a
podcast, and I'm not going to tryto be a armchair economics major
here or anything like that.
But I will say you don't have to
become a master in economics, butyou do need to have a few talking
points and things that you canshare with your clients because
this is something they are verystressed and anxious about.
(12:02):
So just do a little bit of high-level learning on this.
One key theme that I kind ofpulled out of this was the
resiliency of Canada andCanadians.
And that's just a message that I'mechoing to my clients now.
It's like, yes, tariffs wouldreally hurt the economy.
Yes, it would hurt the dollar.
Yes, there would have broader
economic impacts.
But Canada as a whole, when we saw
(12:26):
those tariffs, everyone's talkingabout by Canadian, everyone starts
to rally together.
This connected Canada is something
that I felt as a country, we werequite.
segregated in terms of politicalopinions.
Certain people about vaccines feelone way or political leaders feel
another way.
Whereas something like the tariffs
allowed us to unify against acommon enemy.
And this more connected Canada issomething that I'm going to be.
(12:47):
chatting more about with myclients and just sharing that
message with them.
Yeah, you got to pull some
positivity out of it.
I try to stay down the middle when
it comes to politics.
And I think that's a good message,
staying right down the middle,being a supporter of Canada and
being a proud Canadian.
I think that goes either way,
whether you're on the side of theleft or right, it doesn't matter.
(13:09):
I think that's just a positivecommunity.
vibe that you're giving up to yourclients.
I will say that conversation wasvery knowledgeable, but very
depressing.
So I think if you can pull any
positivity around what's happeningright now, I think that's key for
your clients because they're goingto need that support.
And that's going back to the salestopic that we just talked about.
For sure.
And people won't make decisions
(13:31):
when they're in a fear mode.
It's like an analysis paralysis
they'll have.
So they'll get pre -approved, but
they'll never buy anything becausethey're worried about the economy
getting rocked or they're worriedabout X happening.
If you can get them past thatfear, you can get them buying and
refinancing, doing things thatthey would do if they were in a
more confident position.
So you can really help support
them and give them that strengththat they need to trust the
(13:53):
process, trust the country, trustthemselves in it.
Yeah.
And if you're like me and you have
no idea what's going on withpolitics, I'll be the first to
admit that.
Then you can leverage other
people's expertise and shortcutyour learning.
And I feel like all of thesetopics kind of like go round
circle and connect with each otherbecause you can use AI and cut
your workload down in half onfiguring out what kind of posts to
(14:15):
do or what kind of learning youneed to do or how much effort you
need to put into learning thesedifferent things going on with the
economy.
And one example of that would
be...
Bruno, shout out to Bruno with
RMG.
His stuff is awesome, but I don't
always have the time to read hisemails.
So I'll just literally take hisvoice note, I'll download it, I'll
put it into ChatGPT, get thetranscript, and then I'll just ask
(14:36):
ChatGPT to summarize it and I canlearn from it.
And then I can make my own post.
So you can do things like that to
shortcut stuff.
For sure, definitely try to
distill, get things into bite sizethat you understand and that you
can then regurgitate and feed yourclients so that they are more
knowledgeable and informed aswell.
All right, final point for me andmy big takeaway from the
(14:56):
conference.
I feel like this is always the
case, but the conversations fromthe people you interact with often
end up leading to more learningthan the actual conference
material itself.
I know for our business, Tom and I
had like an aha moment where wewere like realizing that we were
operating in kind of a fear vacuumwhen it came to growing our actual
mortgage book.
Brokerage wise, we're rocking and
rolling there.
Everything's.
going quite well.
But on our side of the business,
(15:18):
we had this point where we werelike, we don't really know if we
want to grow because we'retransitioning more to management
of the brokerage.
We're not quite ready to give it
up.
Should we hire someone?
Is that premature?Do we have money for it?
And then we chatted with JasonHenneberry, who's one of our
partners at Tango as well, andjust really went deep and granular
on what we were looking toaccomplish.
It provided a ton of clarity forwhat we're going to do next.
(15:39):
It was actually a reminder to useJason more often with his
knowledge and what he's got goingon in his brain, man.
The guy built his mortgage book upto, I believe, 600 mil.
And he's just started so manydifferent companies.
He's just a really smart guy.
And feeding off of him, figuring
out, okay, what's our next hire?What are they going to be doing?
How do we get out of the mortgagebook day -to -day stuff so we can
(16:05):
focus on growing both businesses?And it was really clarifying
knowing that.
we're both happy to say we're now
going to go ahead and hire thatunderwriter.
So I'm super excited just to freeup some more time.
How For sure.
And there was other conversations
too.
Like we met this guy in
Burlington.
I want to say it's Mark Ede.
And we're going to have him out onthe podcast because we had a great
chat with him too.
(16:26):
But just like learning about he's
in Burlington where we both grewup and we have a lot of business
there still.
And just seeing his different
sides of the industry and whathe's focused on and just different
conversations we had with peoplewhere they were very frank and
very transparent about whatthey're doing on their business,
how they're getting new business,how the landscape of their files
has changed over the past coupleof years.
(16:46):
And these are all conversationsthat.
don't happen online.
They're not going to happen in
online courses or over podcasts orthings of that nature.
You have to be face -to -face inperson and having these chats.
And I think that is the real winof going to something like this is
getting those connections withpeople, having the conversations
and using it to inform and shapethe growth of your business.
Yeah.
You summarized it well.
Two things, connections withpeople, having those one -to -one
(17:07):
conversations offline.
For me, I come back feeling more
refreshed from not doing the day-to -day stuff, like the regular
boring stuff.
And just being out of the office,
man, it helped me focus on what Ineed to do.
That's always been on top of mymind, but I haven't been executed
on doing things I need to do.
Yeah.
And just to close it out, I justwant to thank those of you who
(17:27):
came up and said hi to us, who arelisteners to the podcast.
It's always nice to hear.
Sometimes we feel like we're just
talking to the camera or eachother.
So it's always good to hear thatsome of you find value in what
we're saying.
So thanks for listening.
Thanks for coming and saying hi.
We really appreciate you and look
forward to crushing the rest ofthe year with you.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom
Moffitt.
We are back from the Be The Better
Broker event in Whistler, andwe're going to share some key
takeaways we had today.
If you're watching on YouTube, you
can see this.
If you're listening, you can't,
but I've got a non -alcoholicCorona and Tom is drinking some
nasty green juice.
So we're all health focused over
(00:22):
here.
And today we're going to share
some stuff that I think ishelping.
the health of our business andwill help the health of yours as
well.
I witnessed Brandon crush like
probably five non -alcoholic beersin like 40 minutes last Friday.
You could tell I was reallycraving a regular pint, but we
were in like this picture perfectspot, second terminal of the
(00:43):
Vancouver airport waiting for aflight, just watching all the
float planes take off.
If you were to get drunk
somewhere, that would be like theideal spot.
Obviously, I'm not drinking untilTango hits a billion dollars
funded.
So I was having non -alcoholic
beers instead, but it was stillnice.
I was close, was close, man.
I was this close to getting you to
have a real drink, but I'm glad Ididn't convince you because I
(01:05):
would feel really bad.
You can't tell me.
You can't tell me.
I'm ironclad in my resolution.
You were close, man.
You were close.
were close.
Anyways, we digress.
Yeah.
I mean, like from a conference
perspective, I haven't reallybeen.
to too many of like that style ofconferences like i've been mpc and
in other industry generalconferences but this one was more
of like a i don't call like highticket but it was more of an
(01:29):
expensive entry to get into anddustin had like a pretty sweet
lineup of a variety of differenttopics which was really cool and
it wasn't like totally mortgage-specific content.
Of course, everything was gearedtowards mortgage brokers in the
industry.
But to give you an example, one of
the speakers was more of like amindset.
health guru.
And one of the other speakers was
(01:49):
more of like an overall generalsales professional and really good
strategy person when it comes tosales.
So we had a lot of differenttakeaways.
Well, we'll dive into it.
But a lot of it for me was more so
a realization that I should beattacking certain things that have
been on my mind.
So that was kind of the general
theme for me.
I think, Brandon, you have other
(02:10):
takeaways, but why don't we diveinto the ones you wrote down and
go from there?Yeah.
And just before we go into things,Dustin had a really cool way of
getting everyone to really open upfrom a speaker perspective.
And it was called like ChathamHouse Rules.
So you can talk about what wastalked about at the conference,
but you can't attribute quotes oranything to anyone.
So in the spirit of that, we willdo the same on the podcast, just
honoring his request there.
(02:31):
It was really great because a lot
of speakers were from quite highup positions in different scopes
of industry.
And they were.
very open to just sharing with theroom because they weren't worried
about someone going and saying,person X said this, and then
getting themselves in trouble downthe line.
So we got a lot of insights fromthat.
And it was just a really coolformat to get people to actually
(02:51):
be really transparent with stuff.
Yeah, I forgot about that.
So thank you for reminding me.
I'm pretty bad with names anyways.
So I don't think I'll have thatproblem.
But let's go into your firstpoint.
What do you got here?Yeah, so this one's probably...
Something that a lot of you areanxious about, and that is AI.
And one of the presentations, itwas a double header on going
really deep on how to use AI inthe business.
(03:12):
And one thing it just reallystrengthened my position on, I've
been leaning into AI quite a bit,as has Tom.
And our position and viewpoint isthat you can't ignore it.
And the conference really remindedus of this.
They shared that the...
People who say they're not going
to use AI or that AI is evil andit's not going to have a role in
their business are the same peoplewho said they won't use the
(03:35):
internet or they wouldn't usesocial media.
And now, you know, we're all overboth.
So with AI, a key piece that theconference really reminded me is
that everyone needs to getcomfortable with it on a base
level.
You don't need to.
Use it for everything in yourbusiness.
But get comfortable with theplatforms.
Get comfortable with the tools.
Because if you don't, there's
going to be that knowledge gap.
And you'll experience a really
(03:55):
hard time trying to catch up andclose that at the speed at which
AI is moving.
It's here to stay.
You may as well jump on board inthe early phases and get ahead of
anyone else.
I'm guilty of leaving this for so
long.
I wish I jumped on it a year ago
when it started becoming really,really popular.
And the biggest reason why Iavoided it was I felt like it was
(04:17):
a bit overwhelming and that Ididn't have enough time to learn
it where, I mean, both of thoseare excuses.
I mean, you can go on YouTube andfollow a couple of creators that
are all about like chat GPTmastery and literally learn
anything you want within fourhours of hyper learning.
Like to give you an example, whenwe were at the conference, again,
I forget his name, so I'm notgoing to blast his name anyways,
(04:37):
but.
Everyone was feeling that kind of
overwhelming feeling when thepresenter was talking and going
through all of his PowerPoints.
And it was really, really awesome
stuff.
But I did feel a bit of that
overwhelm.
And I've been diving deep on it
for the last six months.
One of the comments he made that
will stick with me is the earlystages of his journey.
He felt that he was almost... onan even level playing field with
(04:59):
everyone else.
And he was kind of depressed about
it because he realized everyonehas access to all of these
different AI tools and that hewasn't special, that everyone's
going to catch on to it.
And then it's just going to be
like, everyone is on the sameplaying ground.
But he talked to his mentor andthe mentor mentioned to him, you
know what, don't worry about thatbecause basically not everyone's
going to execute.
(05:20):
Everyone's going to dabble with it
and they're not going to take itas serious as you are.
And that... hit home for me afterthe person next to me basically
confirmed that statement.
He's like, man, that was a great
presentation, but I feel like it'stoo much to learn.
It's going to take too long.
I'm like, fuck, there you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can get all of these insightsand all of the strategies and
everything in the world, but ifyou don't action any of it, you're
(05:42):
on the... exact same position.
And a lot of people I see posting
on different groups and saying inmeetings, I'm really concerned
about AI replacing me in theindustry.
Is the mortgage broker going tohave a role in this space?
And what I really liked about howthat presenter framed it is he's
like, use AI to support you, butthen allow that to get you in
front of clients more.
(06:02):
So what people try to do is they
try to use AI and make like asimulation of themselves and
that's going to talk to theirclients and they're in the
background working behind thescenes.
He's like, that's the wrong way toapproach it.
Instead, use AI to back you up.
So it's helping with your emails,
it's helping with creatingmarketing materials, helping with
that stuff.
But that extra time you have
(06:23):
allows you to get more FaceTime,more human interaction, more
conversations with your actualclients.
You're the face of the brand.
It's going to be like that even
more so as we approach more of theAI era.
So like you said, let it do 80 %of the work upfront for you when
it comes to creative thinking,getting the framework for social
media, emails, whatever theapplication is that you're looking
to use it for.
(06:43):
Let it do 80 % of the work.
Then I believe...
This is coming from him.
I believe the next 15 % is youcurating the content and going
through it.
The last 15 % is asking ChatGPT to
review everything and polish it.
I believe that was the framework
he used, right?You're a little over 100 there,
but the percentage would be 80 %AI creating, 15 % editing, and
(07:04):
then you feed it back the last 5 %to like ChatGPT.
I said 80, 15, 5, didn't I?Now you went 80 -15.
It's okay.
It's okay.
It's okay.
You were thinking basis points.
You're all good.
There you go, man.
Money's on my mind.
Yeah.
So yeah, getting in front ofpeople and having that more human
connection really segued into thenext one, which honest to God, Tom
(07:27):
and I almost skipped because wewere a little bit like tapped out.
of conference mode at that point.
We were like, oh, let's just go
sit and talk about some of thethings better to implement than
overwhelm our brains.
But we're like, screw it.
We're going to sit in.
And this was a sales presentation.
And she talked a lot aboutemotional versus logical decision
(07:49):
making.
And so many clients come to us in
emotional settings.
They're buying a home or they're
refinancing or they're in like adebt crisis.
interact with them in very logicalterms so we're like what's your
income what's your budget likewe're very numbers based and
logical and they're making anemotional decision we're coming at
them with logic And it's not thebest way to sell.
The best way to sell is to appealto them on an emotional level and
(08:11):
then have the logic to back it up.
So they buy through emotion, but
they use logic to back it up.
And this reframe, like both Tom
and I were looking at each otherlike discovery call, like this
part of the business, likeeverything.
We're like, we're looking at itall wrong.
And I just tested this prior torecording this podcast.
(08:34):
I just had a call with a client.
And rather than doing my
traditional discovery call of likegetting all the data points, going
through essentially.
what would be the application?
I just chatted with them abouttheir goals and where they were at
and all this stuff.
And it ended up being like a half
an hour conversation where theywere like, so -and -so in my
network's a realtor.
I want to connect them with you.
(08:55):
Our son wants to buy in a coupleof years.
Is it okay if we give him yourcontact?
And it was just a radicallydifferent experience from just
trying to process one application.
Yeah, there you go.
I think this industry, we've kindof been set in our way over the
years of just being taught like,have a 15 minute discovery call,
go through all of your points andyour questions regarding income,
down payment, credit, just get theinformation, get off the phone and
(09:15):
send them the app.
I feel like we've been stuck in
that way for so long that there'sa different way of doing it.
And this is what I mean by thetopics and presenters being more
generalized than very specific andgranular in the mortgage industry,
because it took us to off the topof our head, that discovery call
was going to be the most importantimplementing this style of sales
and conversations.
So I think if you can create a
model where you have enoughinformation upfront, but you can
have that... one -to -one bond andthat storytelling communication
(09:36):
with that client and then figureout the rest of the pieces along
the way, whether it's just gettingit from the application or doing
something unique like having ascreening process while they book
the call to get all theinformation you need, all the data
points, and then you just use thediscovery call as that bonding
moment with that client.
Yeah, for sure.
And another key thing she touchedon was that The emotional side
(09:57):
sells, but so do stories.
So make sure you have stories to
back things up.
But a key point she added here is
when your story goes for more thanfour sentences, you start to lose
people.
Get your stories.
Think about certain ones.
If you have a story about first
-time homebuyers, if you have astory about a time that someone
(10:18):
chose a higher rate because theprepayment privileges were better,
whatever it is that you need inyour storybook, let's call it,
have those ready, get them dialedin so they're no more than four
sentences, and just pull them outand say them as you need them.
Yeah.
And she did mention relate the
story to the question you justasked and that you prompted.
I feel that way with stories too.
(10:39):
I try to get to the point and
sometimes like you do skip overimportant details, but try to keep
it into that four sentencestructure is going to be key.
So you're not going to lose themand drag the conversation on.
Exactly.
So I would encourage you to take a
look at the questions you ask yourclients and just say, is this an
emotional question or is this alogical question?
(10:59):
And see where you can mix in somemore emotional questions there
because you will build a betterconnection with that client.
It'll be stickier and it will be amore referable experience because
they'll feel connected to you asan individual versus just another
person trying to sell a mortgage.
Yeah, as any topics or strategies
that we talk about here, we'regoing to be implementing this in
our business and we're going toreport back how it goes.
(11:20):
For sure.
Next one is touching on sort of
the broader economics of thecountry and where Canada is at as
a whole.
And when there's an economist or
someone from the government there,my initial like knee jerk reaction
is to like glaze over and be superbored.
And Dustin did a fantastic job offinding people that were very
engaging and super knowledgeableand the education.
I left that feeling so much moreconfident speaking about tariffs,
speaking about broader Canadianpolicy and government, where it's
(11:41):
headed.
And that was great.
And I'm not going to be able tocapture what they said in a
podcast, and I'm not going to tryto be a armchair economics major
here or anything like that.
But I will say you don't have to
become a master in economics, butyou do need to have a few talking
points and things that you canshare with your clients because
this is something they are verystressed and anxious about.
(12:02):
So just do a little bit of high-level learning on this.
One key theme that I kind ofpulled out of this was the
resiliency of Canada andCanadians.
And that's just a message that I'mechoing to my clients now.
It's like, yes, tariffs wouldreally hurt the economy.
Yes, it would hurt the dollar.
Yes, there would have broader
economic impacts.
But Canada as a whole, when we saw
(12:26):
those tariffs, everyone's talkingabout by Canadian, everyone starts
to rally together.
This connected Canada is something
that I felt as a country, we werequite.
segregated in terms of politicalopinions.
Certain people about vaccines feelone way or political leaders feel
another way.
Whereas something like the tariffs
allowed us to unify against acommon enemy.
And this more connected Canada issomething that I'm going to be.
(12:47):
chatting more about with myclients and just sharing that
message with them.
Yeah, you got to pull some
positivity out of it.
I try to stay down the middle when
it comes to politics.
And I think that's a good message,
staying right down the middle,being a supporter of Canada and
being a proud Canadian.
I think that goes either way,
whether you're on the side of theleft or right, it doesn't matter.
(13:09):
I think that's just a positivecommunity.
vibe that you're giving up to yourclients.
I will say that conversation wasvery knowledgeable, but very
depressing.
So I think if you can pull any
positivity around what's happeningright now, I think that's key for
your clients because they're goingto need that support.
And that's going back to the salestopic that we just talked about.
For sure.
And people won't make decisions
(13:31):
when they're in a fear mode.
It's like an analysis paralysis
they'll have.
So they'll get pre -approved, but
they'll never buy anything becausethey're worried about the economy
getting rocked or they're worriedabout X happening.
If you can get them past thatfear, you can get them buying and
refinancing, doing things thatthey would do if they were in a
more confident position.
So you can really help support
them and give them that strengththat they need to trust the
(13:53):
process, trust the country, trustthemselves in it.
Yeah.
And if you're like me and you have
no idea what's going on withpolitics, I'll be the first to
admit that.
Then you can leverage other
people's expertise and shortcutyour learning.
And I feel like all of thesetopics kind of like go round
circle and connect with each otherbecause you can use AI and cut
your workload down in half onfiguring out what kind of posts to
(14:15):
do or what kind of learning youneed to do or how much effort you
need to put into learning thesedifferent things going on with the
economy.
And one example of that would
be...
Bruno, shout out to Bruno with
RMG.
His stuff is awesome, but I don't
always have the time to read hisemails.
So I'll just literally take hisvoice note, I'll download it, I'll
put it into ChatGPT, get thetranscript, and then I'll just ask
(14:36):
ChatGPT to summarize it and I canlearn from it.
And then I can make my own post.
So you can do things like that to
shortcut stuff.
For sure, definitely try to
distill, get things into bite sizethat you understand and that you
can then regurgitate and feed yourclients so that they are more
knowledgeable and informed aswell.
All right, final point for me andmy big takeaway from the
(14:56):
conference.
I feel like this is always the
case, but the conversations fromthe people you interact with often
end up leading to more learningthan the actual conference
material itself.
I know for our business, Tom and I
had like an aha moment where wewere like realizing that we were
operating in kind of a fear vacuumwhen it came to growing our actual
mortgage book.
Brokerage wise, we're rocking and
rolling there.
Everything's.
going quite well.
But on our side of the business,
(15:18):
we had this point where we werelike, we don't really know if we
want to grow because we'retransitioning more to management
of the brokerage.
We're not quite ready to give it
up.
Should we hire someone?
Is that premature?Do we have money for it?
And then we chatted with JasonHenneberry, who's one of our
partners at Tango as well, andjust really went deep and granular
on what we were looking toaccomplish.
It provided a ton of clarity forwhat we're going to do next.
(15:39):
It was actually a reminder to useJason more often with his
knowledge and what he's got goingon in his brain, man.
The guy built his mortgage book upto, I believe, 600 mil.
And he's just started so manydifferent companies.
He's just a really smart guy.
And feeding off of him, figuring
out, okay, what's our next hire?What are they going to be doing?
How do we get out of the mortgagebook day -to -day stuff so we can
(16:05):
focus on growing both businesses?And it was really clarifying
knowing that.
we're both happy to say we're now
going to go ahead and hire thatunderwriter.
So I'm super excited just to freeup some more time.
How For sure.
And there was other conversations
too.
Like we met this guy in
Burlington.
I want to say it's Mark Ede.
And we're going to have him out onthe podcast because we had a great
chat with him too.
(16:26):
But just like learning about he's
in Burlington where we both grewup and we have a lot of business
there still.
And just seeing his different
sides of the industry and whathe's focused on and just different
conversations we had with peoplewhere they were very frank and
very transparent about whatthey're doing on their business,
how they're getting new business,how the landscape of their files
has changed over the past coupleof years.
(16:46):
And these are all conversationsthat.
don't happen online.
They're not going to happen in
online courses or over podcasts orthings of that nature.
You have to be face -to -face inperson and having these chats.
And I think that is the real winof going to something like this is
getting those connections withpeople, having the conversations
and using it to inform and shapethe growth of your business.
Yeah.
You summarized it well.
Two things, connections withpeople, having those one -to -one
(17:07):
conversations offline.
For me, I come back feeling more
refreshed from not doing the day-to -day stuff, like the regular
boring stuff.
And just being out of the office,
man, it helped me focus on what Ineed to do.
That's always been on top of mymind, but I haven't been executed
on doing things I need to do.
Yeah.
And just to close it out, I justwant to thank those of you who
(17:27):
came up and said hi to us, who arelisteners to the podcast.
It's always nice to hear.
Sometimes we feel like we're just
talking to the camera or eachother.
So it's always good to hear thatsome of you find value in what
we're saying.
So thanks for listening.
Thanks for coming and saying hi.
We really appreciate you and look
forward to crushing the rest ofthe year with you.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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