April 23, 2024 • 53 mins
This week on Conflict Managed we welcome LeKesha Taylor, University Ombuds and Associate Director of Residence Life for Marshall University.
Join us as we discuss questions such as:
🌟Who has the solution to your problem?
✨Dealing with gossip and office drama: what are your priorities?
🌟What do you want to spend your time thinking about?
✨Are you hearing what THEY are saying?
Conflict Managed is available wherever you listen to podcasts.
LeKesha Taylor is a seasoned Housing and Residence Life professional from Huntington, WV. She is a proud alum of Parkersburg High School (Go Big Reds) in Parkersburg, West Virginia. Currently she serves as the Associate Director of Residence Life and the University Ombuds for her alma mater Marshall University. She has served as a team member for housing since 1999. While still new to the field of Ombuds she became a member of the International Ombuds Association in 2021 and reestablished the Ombuds office at Marshall University serving as an Ombuds to faculty and staff and most recently in 2023 adding in students as well. During her tenure at Marshall University, she has served on a host of committees serving all Marshall and Huntington community constituents including President Commissions and the University Women of Color Committee, Behavioral Intervention Team, and Week of Welcome. She was privileged to be a part of the John Marshall Leadership Fellows 2020 cohort and a Facilitator and speaker for 2021-2024. Her family is her greatest accomplishment and spending time with them is her preferred pastime. She is a wife to a wonderful husband Jason and mother to two beautiful children Emberlee and Elias, as well as a pet parent to Moose Hotdog and Khloe Bell.
Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
All right,
this is all right.
I got it.
I do wraps now.
Get a sound side uptight,
Jack asking questions.
(00:25):
So,
welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
This week on Conflict Managed,
we welcome LeKesha Taylor.
LeKesha is a seasoned housing and residence life professional from Huntington,
West Virginia.
She is a proud alum of Parkersburg High School go Big Reds in Parkersburg,
West Virginia.
(00:46):
Currently,
she serves as the Associate Director of Residence Life and the University Ombuds for her alma mater Marshall University.
She has served as a team member for housing since 1999.
While still new to the field of the Ombuds.
She became a member of the International Ombuds Association in 2021 and reestablished the Ombuds office at Marshall University serving as an ombuds to faculty and staff and most recently in 2023 adding in students as well.
(01:15):
During her tenure at Marshall University,
she has served on a host of committees serving all Marshall and Huntington community constituents,
including president commissions and the University Women of Color committee,
behavioral intervention team and a week of welcome.
She was privileged to be part of the John Marshall Leadership fellows,
2022 cohort and a facilitator and speaker for 2021 through 2024.
(01:40):
Her family is her greatest accomplishment and spending time with them is her preferred pastime.
She is a wife to a wonderful husband,
Jason and mother to two beautiful Children,
Emberly and Elias,
as well as a parent to Moose hotdog and Chloe Bell.
Good morning Lekesia and welcome to Conflict
Managed.
Good morning.
Thanks for having me.
(02:00):
It's so lovely to see you.
We're recording the day after the eclipse.
Did you get to watch any of the eclipse?
I did.
So it was great.
My kids were able to join me here at work along with my husband and they came down and we had the glasses and we're joining all the students out on the field,
checking it out.
So it was a good time.
Oh,
that sounds like a lot of fun.
(02:20):
Did you,
were you in the path of total eclipse or was I as soon as we got?
I think it was 94% coverage.
So we didn't get complete totality,
but we definitely got the full experience of,
you know,
it being very bright to being very dust like and then the temperature going down and things like that.
So that was definitely something cool to experience as a kid.
(02:43):
If you were listening elsewhere in the world,
the US was eclipse crazy on March April.
Sorry April 8th.
I'm like,
oh I don't even know what month I'm in April 8th,
but now things are back to normal.
So,
Lakeisha,
I like to start,
um,
how I start all my podcast.
I want to hear about the first job you ever had as a young person?
(03:05):
Oh,
ok.
First job I ever had was actually at Wendy's.
Um,
it was at,
um,
in my hometown Parkins Burg,
West Virginia and my cousins actually worked there and I knew that I wanted to get a car and so started working at Wendy's and there's no,
(03:27):
I've never had a job.
I didn't like,
which is,
and I know that's weird to say,
but even though it was fast food,
I liked helping the customers,
you know,
when they came in upset,
uh because their burger had onion and they didn't want onion,
you know,
or,
you know,
they asked for chili and it's not hot enough,
you know,
those types of things,
even managing conflict then and dealing with people being unhappy then like it started then for me where it just,
(03:54):
it was something that just came natural.
It wasn't anything that ever really got me upset.
Um,
or,
or made me feel put out.
I liked working with my coworkers.
I was young,
so I was normally the youngest on staff,
you know,
but I was always committed,
you know,
always committed to,
to working with them to picking up shifts when I could,
(04:17):
even when I couldn't work that often,
you know,
because of school and things like that.
But summers were,
summers were great.
I had free availability and could work all the time and,
you know,
just really enjoyed it,
enjoyed the space.
But Wendy's is my home.
It's so interesting because it sounds like problem solving has just come naturally to you because a lot of times when a customer comes,
(04:40):
especially,
it's pretty high pressure,
um,
working in the food industry because people,
people come and they present and they're upset because they're hungry.
Right?
And their expectations are not being met and that sort of convergence of this,
I'm,
I'm very hungry and I'm upset and it seems that you've met that with just instead of matching their energy thinking about it as ok.
(05:04):
Well,
this is a problem to be solved.
Mhm.
Yeah.
I've never really,
it's really interesting,
even as I can remember,
even as far as,
like in,
in elementary school,
you know,
in middle school when it came to conflict,
I was,
I was never one to be a fighter.
I always fought back in the sense that there was conflict with my words and even though I had a stature of kind of being scared because I was always the bigger kid,
(05:32):
you know?
And so it's not that I got picked on a lot or anything like that.
Um,
in fact,
I really didn't get picked on but I always wanted to come to the rescue of those who were?
It seems I was always um looking out for the little guy,
you know what I mean?
Um But not in the sense of being a fighter more in the sense of,
(05:53):
you know,
why are we treating this person like that?
And so I can remember being like that from,
from very,
very young.
I honestly think it intensified once my brother was born because that was my little brother and,
and taking care of him.
And as he got older,
he was the fighter.
Like he was like,
he,
he was,
(06:14):
he was ready to throw down with his hand,
you know,
and that was never me.
But it was,
it was very interesting.
I like thinking about it now and,
and looking back at how even when conflict would arise or problems would arise,
I was always trying to talk it out or get the parties to talk through it.
You know,
friend groups getting upset with each other.
(06:36):
Well,
what did they say?
And what did they say?
And,
and that,
that question of,
ok,
but are you hearing what they're saying?
Here's where they're coming from?
Um You'll hear my,
if you were to interview my friends,
they would tell you that I get on their nerves because you never take our side.
You know,
(06:56):
that's what I,
I mean,
I hear it all the time.
You never take our side,
you're always talking about,
you know what the other person is thinking?
And that's because I'm,
I'm always in the mode of solving the problem,
like getting to the root of what's really going on.
That is so funny.
I think,
I think we are separated at birth because that is the same criticism my friends and sometimes my husband has of me and I have to think,
(07:20):
ok,
I,
I'm not,
I don't always have to be solving the problem.
Sometimes I just need to be,
yeah,
you're right.
You know,
sometimes people just want to be listened to and they,
they want to be affirmed,
right?
They want,
they want their side instead of,
well,
so sure that's the right way to take it,
or did you consider this or?
(07:40):
Right.
And so,
yeah,
I absolutely hear that echoed when you think about your Wendy's job.
What was the management?
Like,
management was one of the crew if that makes sense.
Um,
they were older,
I believe,
well,
some of them were older but they were still part of the,
(08:00):
the,
the,
the clique,
the,
the group that,
you know,
that hung out after hours.
I think that they were,
I think attentive to people's needs.
I didn't really understand the business side,
you know,
of like being a manager,
making sure,
you know,
you're ordering the right things,
which is really funny.
I never saw them doing any of that stuff,
(08:22):
you know,
like that.
I never saw him,
like,
figuring out inventory or trying to understand,
you know,
sales,
you know,
we would have the district managers and people like that come in sometimes.
But I,
I just never saw that from them.
They were always just a part of the line.
They were helping bag food,
they were helping make,
make the sandwiches or make the salads and things like that.
(08:43):
It never seemed like there was this,
like I knew they were managers and I knew that they were in control but it never felt that way.
I never felt like the separation.
That is,
that is really interesting.
I think it's interesting for a variety of points of view because when we're new to the workforce,
a lot of times,
we don't think about the different roles that individuals play.
(09:05):
Right?
And so sometimes people have the complaint,
the manager is never around and therefore they're not doing their job.
And sometimes,
I mean,
of course,
that could be the case and sometimes it's just that we don't really know what their job is.
It doesn't sound like that's the case.
Um where you were at.
I mean,
it's so lovely to really feel like and see bosses,
(09:26):
managers just working alongside because we're all in this together.
We have different roles which you said was clear,
but we're all doing this work,
we're all going towards the same mission of feeding the customer and making sure they have a good experience.
Absolutely.
And I,
and I know that that is again,
(09:46):
like when you stop just to think about like what has shaped you as you're working and uh as you're being a manager yourself,
when you become a manager and things like that,
and you start thinking about,
you know,
you go to the workshops and they're asking,
you know,
well,
what kind of shape you and how did you develop your philosophy?
And uh and that's why I say I really never had a bad job because in all of my jobs that I've had that has always been the case,
(10:11):
either I am working right alongside my manager or they are including me,
you know,
in decision making.
Um They were including me to help,
how do I navigate this,
you know,
now don't get me wrong.
I definitely had,
you know,
times where people were,
you know,
really chippy with each other and getting on each other's nerves and things like that.
(10:33):
But it was,
I always seem to be in,
in each of the roles that I've had that,
that mediator,
that,
that common space that the um the level headed one when it came to my particular role just because I just,
I thrive in positivity not to be a pollyanna about it or anything like that.
(10:54):
But I thrive in positive,
in,
in positive situations.
And so I'm gonna make my best effort to keep things as positive as possible.
And I think that by doing that,
it helps other people try to do that at least when I'm around as well.
I really like the point that you've made that you've had all these good experiences,
(11:15):
but it doesn't mean that there weren't any of at any negative times because,
right,
having,
um,
a good job does not mean no conflict that's high in the sky,
that's,
you know,
unrealistic.
And so to really think about our job experiences as whole experiences with whole people that means we're going to have conflict.
(11:37):
So a good job does not mean conflict free.
It usually means conflict that's being managed.
And I also like,
you know,
that you said you're being positive doesn't mean you're a Pollyanna,
which again,
I get accused of being,
you know,
naive or too positive.
And there's this term toxic positivity,
which is a problem but toxic positivity is not addressing issues.
(12:00):
I would much rather address the issue and move forward so that we can actually be collaborative and we can actually get the benefit of the people around us.
But I absolutely prefer if we're talking about people,
I want to hear about the good things.
I really don't want to hear trash talk about people.
I don't see what that serves.
(12:20):
I,
I see the negative of that and sometimes that can drive people crazy when they feel like they're venting and I feel like they're gossiping and I don't wanna be around that,
right?
And I,
and I do run in and I run into that frequently.
I think I mean,
I think lots of people do and you kind of get stuck in this place where,
you know,
you might even agree with them.
You know what I mean?
(12:41):
Like,
yes,
this,
this person does get on my nerves or yes,
I don't,
I don't like that part of their personality or that doesn't mesh well with me and I've,
I've learned,
like,
that's ok.
Like,
I,
I don't have to like everybody.
I don't have to want to spend time with them after work.
I don't want have to being in the know of what's going on in their world,
(13:02):
you know,
especially with social media,
things like that.
Like I don't have to be friends with people on Facebook.
I don't have to like and share things just be just because,
you know,
I,
I am a,
I,
I have become so comfortable in my skin and that I,
I don't feel that pressure and lots of people ask me well,
(13:25):
how did,
how did you get there?
I,
and I don't,
I don't know but,
you know,
a true word to it other than my priorities are different.
My priority,
the what's happening in those spaces or the gossiping that's happening,
that's not a priori priority to me.
(13:48):
My family,
my kids are a priority,
you know,
do,
do I,
did I get my list of things done is my priority.
And so what,
that's what I put my focus on.
That's what I put my effort into because that's the other thing is that being a part of the,
the gossiping mills and,
and,
and being tied down by social media takes a lot of effort.
(14:10):
It,
it takes a lot of effort.
It takes a lot of strength,
it takes a line,
lot of mind,
like mind matter.
And honestly,
after having my kids,
I just don't have that much,
you know,
my mind,
you know,
when you're dealing with work and,
and being a wife and being a mom and,
and things like that,
I just don't have the space to deal with that.
(14:33):
You know what I mean?
So,
I don't,
I don't know that there is a,
oh,
do these three steps and you'll be fine.
You know what I mean?
I,
I don't,
I don't think that's it.
I think that person has to figure out what their priorities are and let those priorities dictate how they deal with those things,
how they deal,
especially with conflict,
how they choose to deal with that.
(14:55):
I think that's really wise when we,
a lot of times when we are gossiping,
it's because we're coming from a disempowered place.
I don't know what else to do.
I am in pain.
This is wrong.
Nobody is listening to me.
I don't know where else to go.
And so there's a sort of ruminating and then,
you know,
misery loves company.
So I ruminate with other people and then I feel which is a pretty,
(15:17):
in a powerful psychological need to feel like,
oh this is other people see this too.
But I think your advice of taking a step back and saying what is meaningful to me,
what do I want to be spending my time thinking about where do I want to spend my energy?
(15:37):
And I think if we take account,
it's almost like looking at a budget.
Where do I really want to be spending my money?
Well,
if I don't know what I'm spending my money on,
I'm not really making these conscious decisions.
I think it's the same thing with space in our mind.
Where,
what do I want to be thinking about and where do I want to be putting my energy?
And if we're not conscious about that,
we can slip into bad habits of the mind.
(16:00):
And gossiping is a bad habit of the mind.
Gossiping here is understood where you're talking about somebody behind their back things you wouldn't say to their face,
things that are not fruitful,
typically not kind and not courageous,
so on and so forth.
And so it,
it is a doesn't lead to happy work environments.
So the thing that we actually want or work environments that,
(16:22):
that work that are,
are free from unnecessary conflict.
And I,
you know,
I,
again,
I'm not saying these things to say that I've never been a part of that crowd that I've never done.
I,
I've never thought up I've never thought about.
That's a lie.
Yeah.
Let me put,
let me put myself in that pot too.
(16:43):
And I'm not saying I've never done it.
I think I never done it.
I just,
I,
I think what has,
what happened is that again?
You start to recognize times in your life where you have felt down or felt,
you know,
when you haven't felt like your best,
you,
what were things that were going on?
What,
what were things that that were happening?
(17:04):
What was a part of your priority list?
What was a part of your environment?
And I think when those times happened,
those were the things that I was a part of those were the things that were more prevalent in my life.
And that's why I can say now like it's not something that I enjoy.
It's not something that I can be my best version of me when I'm in that space or dealing with,
(17:30):
with those types of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So from Wendy's eventually you go to college and what did you major in,
in college?
So I majored in elementary education.
I had a dream.
I saw,
well,
not like a real dream,
but like I saw on Disney,
there were,
(17:50):
it was a,
it was an award show on Disney.
I was a Disney kid like I always watch and there were teachers receiving awards for the work that they had done.
And I was like that,
that's what I want.
That's what I want with my life.
I want to be invited to Disney to be given an award for being the best teacher ever and stimulating young minds and making a change in this world through Children.
(18:18):
Like that's what I wanted to do.
So I majored in elementary education.
Um I got my bachelor's there and then um I did student teaching and I had the best experience,
student teaching.
I actually ended up winning student teacher of the year of the Disney,
(18:41):
but Marshall's version,
um and I,
I student taught in um in middle school.
So I did elementary my first eight weeks and then middle school,
my second eight weeks,
I was very afraid of middle school.
I did not see myself there.
I did not see myself being able to connect with the students.
(19:02):
They're just in a really weird space in middle school,
you know,
and the,
and the thought processes and ended up loving it.
And so when I got my master's,
I decided to do secondary and that way I could teach,
you know,
from elementary school to high school wherever it fell.
And I had actually intended on going into teachers of America where they send you,
(19:24):
you know,
into low sef and,
you know,
communities and things like that to teach.
But then I got,
I was in housing and it just seemed like every,
every time I was at a place where,
ok,
now I'm moving on another opportunity popped up in housing.
So I was working in the front desk and then I was supposed to be hired as an R A and I was asked to be the coordinator for the program.
(19:52):
So I was like,
oh,
yeah,
that's a good opportunity.
Well,
then after that happened,
then it was like,
well,
there's a building here,
like,
would you like to be a residence director?
So then I'm doing that and then an assistant director,
you know,
so it just every step,
I just kept going up the proverbial ladder here at Marshall and people were like,
did you miss teaching or do you miss doing that at the time?
(20:14):
And those roles training was a part of my,
my,
my role,
a heavy part.
And I'm like,
well,
I'm still teaching my classrooms is bigger because I have residence halls instead of,
you know,
one class of 30 students.
So,
yeah,
that is so very interesting to be successful as a student teacher.
And then you,
(20:34):
you graduate with your masters.
But so I take it that you started working at housing when you were at Marshall's an undergrad.
Is that correct?
Yes.
So I,
I actually started working the front desk of the residence hall my second year of school.
So in nine,
so I started in 98 started working the front desk in 99.
And the only it was interest that was really interesting too was that I only started working the front desk because a few friends of mine though were,
(21:00):
like,
you talk with everyone.
Why are you not working the front desk?
I'm like,
oh,
I can get paid to do that.
Yeah.
Like I absolutely,
I'll do that,
you know.
And so I,
I got through college by just chatting with people and making sure people were safe and secure while working the desk and checking keys and signing in guests.
(21:23):
You know,
and it just that social aspect for me was that,
that's what I need,
that's all I needed because that's what I what I thrive on.
I thrive on dealing with people.
So,
so recently your job has augmented a little bit and now you are a university ombuds,
you're still doing housing,
is that correct?
And you're doing um ombuds in work.
(21:44):
Can you tell us how that came about?
And maybe first for the audience who may are not familiar with the Ombuds world,
what,
what is an ombuds?
Sure.
So um an ombud is we actually talked about this at the uh the conference.
But,
you know,
we always tend to say ombuds are the conflict mediators and that obviously always like makes it seem like all we deal with our problems.
(22:10):
We,
while we do deal with problems,
it's honestly more about helping people realize the power that they have when they within themselves,
they handle situations that they might encounter.
It's a role that allows people to come in and be their authentic self.
Have a safe space to be able to talk about whatever it is that they're dealing with and not in a way to,
(22:31):
to give them therapy,
so to speak.
Because that's,
that's a whole other field.
And I would not put us in the category of therapist but gives them a space to where they can say here's what I'm going through.
Here's what I would like to see happen.
But how do I do that?
What steps can I take?
What opportunities do I have?
What policies are in place and that bu can help them find the answers to those questions.
(22:56):
It's about helping a person do for themselves.
I'm not here to be your mouthpiece.
I'm not here to,
to solve the problem for you.
I'm here to give you information to help you make the best decision for you.
You get to make that decision,
you get to decide how we move forward,
giving you that power back to take control of whatever it is that you might be dealing with.
(23:19):
So that's really what Ombuds do.
Marshall University had an Ombuds office um prior to COVID.
So I believe it was either 2018,
2019 and the position at the time they were on Buds,
but they were also um civic supposed to be civic engagement.
(23:41):
So interacting with the Huntington community,
not just the Marshall community trying to build those connections.
Well,
COVID hit and as with everything,
everything kind of shut down.
And so that office went dormant and I was a part of the John Marshall Leadership fellows cohort in 2020.
And basically what that is,
it's a group of faculty staff who are working on,
(24:04):
you know,
building their leadership skills,
um understanding of being a leader,
understanding conflict,
difficult conversations.
And so I,
I did that program and as a part of that program,
we come up with a problem that we're trying to solve.
The system is called D for D.
It's something that our President Smith,
who was our current president actually um came up with when he was in Silicon Valley where you take a problem and you fall in love with the problem,
(24:32):
you quit looking at the problem like an enemy.
And rather as this is a friend that I need to deal with.
So you fall in love with the problem,
you talk to those who are affected by the problem to try to come up with a solution um to come up with the best solution.
So you take it out of you trying to figure it out yourself and utilizing others to help you come to that realization.
(24:55):
I loved it.
I love the concept.
I was an advocate for once we,
we came up with trying to answer questions for students.
We found that sometimes students can get the run around on a college campus where they go to this office and they say,
oh,
you,
you're not in the right place.
You need to go here,
you need to go here.
So we came up with the friends of a herd chat and it was literally a chat that was open in the evening that were other students are not.
(25:20):
Students are answering questions for other students,
helping them through their problems,
telling them how to navigate the issues that they were encountering and absolutely loved it,
shopped it around.
I ran it for a couple of years before I was able to pass it off to student affairs to run.
And after that,
my,
I think she's a senior vice president for operations,
(25:43):
came to me and said that she was want or that they were wanting to restart the Ombuds office and would I be interested in starting that back up?
I had applied for the position back when it was um listed,
but I didn't get it at the time.
And so she asked me if I was ready to restart it,
she let me know it wasn't a full time job.
(26:04):
This is,
you know,
you're still having,
but to be getting the office together,
identifying a space,
you know,
building the charter,
you know,
thing,
things of that nature.
And so I jumped on it.
Absolutely jumped on it because I,
when I,
as I read about it as I became a member of the IO a just learning about the role,
it just seemed like my skill set let itself to directly to the work that bunch do and so fast forward now,
(26:33):
you know,
three years later,
I'm still here.
Um I also have a faculty on bus that I share the office with would love for it to be full time working on that still.
But just the work that I do is so rewarding it.
It's so rewarding and,
and so it's been,
it's been a great journey.
It really has.
It's such,
I'm so happy for you that,
(26:53):
um,
that you are in this job that you love.
And it's interesting to me to look at how people build their careers,
you know,
from the very first job that we ever have to,
the one that we currently have,
we have typically the one that we're doing because of the relationships,
the skills,
what we've learned along the way.
(27:14):
And it seems to me everything that you've done in housing,
it is,
is beds like,
I mean,
you are,
I think maybe probably in housing a little bit more directive because of the role,
you know,
be because,
you know,
people are,
you know,
they have to follow certain kinds of rules and,
and whatnot,
but it's certainly a,
a problem solving hub.
(27:36):
And that's what the Ombuds does,
whether,
whether they're in the university or in some sort of business setting,
an organizational ombuds is that person that is confidential,
that is informal.
It's,
the ombuds is not there to decide anything.
They are impartial and they're independent and of this person that every single organization needs in order to help empower their employees or their constituents.
(28:04):
So at the university,
students,
faculty and staff to be able to solve their own problems,
this is a problem that a lot of organizations have is who's there to solve the problem.
And in a hierarchical institution like universities,
a very hierarchical,
a lot of times the problems get pushed up because that's assumed.
(28:24):
Well,
you are my boss and this is very hierarchical.
So you have to solve it.
But the ombuds helps empower the individual,
whoever the individual is to solve the problem.
So I have a couple of questions for you the first though,
what I want to go back to is this falling in love with the problem?
I think that is so impactful because a lot of times we want to be in denial,
(28:48):
we run from the problem.
We don't want to look at it and we don't look at it because it's genuinely painful to us.
Then we miss the different avenues available to us to solve it.
Can you speak a little bit about this whole idea of falling in love with the problem?
Sure.
I I'm not gonna lie.
And initially it was a hard pill to swallow um because it was,
(29:12):
it was a different mindset for me.
I am a fixer,
right?
So by nature,
I'm a fixer.
I have an idea for how to solve the problem.
Let's just go with this idea and see what ha like I,
I'm a fixer deeper d and falling in love with the problem is getting rid of that mindset.
(29:33):
It is stop thinking that you have the solution and realizing that the people who have the solution are the people who are actually affected by the problem.
So a lot of times upper administration,
you know,
we and and that's what I am now in housing,
we tend to think about um what our students need like if we're student centered,
(29:57):
we're thinking about what our students need,
how,
how we need to make sure we get it to them.
How do we,
the type of environment we need to set up for them.
But we do that oftentimes without asking the students,
right?
Because we do,
we're doing what we think is best because it's based on the experiences that we've had.
And it's not to say that those experiences are wrong or those experiences are bad.
(30:20):
But if you're not including who it's for,
then do you really have the true notion or understanding of the problem?
And so um what we learned is when,
when you fall in love with the problem,
when we stop trying to,
to think about our solution and start listening to what our constituents are saying the problem we think was a big problem.
(30:45):
Normally wasn't even the problem.
It's something completely different and we're like,
we didn't even think about that.
You know.
And so when,
when,
and,
and when you fall in love with it,
when you learn to,
you know,
when you think about something that you love,
you work very hard to try to take care of it to try to nurture it.
And that's what we're doing with these problems.
(31:06):
That's what we're doing.
We're,
we're,
we're taking the time to nurture it to understand it better so we can move forward and make whatever it is better because the people have told us this is what they need.
Yeah,
like,
gosh,
there's so much richness in there.
It's just so true when there is a problem.
(31:27):
If,
if we are,
if we allow ourselves to look at it,
we think we have to solve it.
I certainly am a recovering fixer as well.
But,
you know,
but you know,
you know,
you just,
you're speaking about collaboration,
you're speaking about really getting other people's perspectives.
(31:47):
And I love that you,
that you didn't minimize your perspective,
right?
So,
you know,
that,
you know,
people in housing or people,
whoever are trying to solve the problem,
they,
they do have experiences and they do have wisdom and all this different kind of education,
be it academic or learned.
And yet there's,
there's more to the story than that.
(32:07):
And I think it's really also interesting that sometimes the problem I'm solving,
trying to solve isn't the problem at all,
but I am,
I'm seeing it from a particular lens and maybe because it's worrisome to me,
I'm just trying to get to it quickly and move on in my,
you know,
in my way to avert the pain that I feel about it.
(32:31):
So I thought gosh,
that's really,
you know,
embracing and that means embracing others,
embracing the community in which the stakeholders figuring out who the stakeholders are,
who does this,
who does this really matter to and what do they want,
what is reasonable,
what will actually solve it?
Um And what are the,
you know,
it's really looking at problems as opportunities and gosh,
(32:52):
we certainly don't want to think about problems as opportunities and they,
and they actually are,
they very much are that and,
and that,
that's the thing that D for D helps you realize is that it's called design for delight.
So if you ever want to look it up,
that's what,
that's what the,
the concept is probably designed for,
designed for the life.
But when you think about problems,
(33:15):
you know,
just like when you're talking about ombuds and you say it always deals with conflict that has a negative connotation sometimes just changing the thought process about what a problem actually is,
changes your a your outlook,
changes the aspect.
And the other thing that design for the light does is it,
(33:38):
it breaks it down into very common,
no,
not like theoretical but very common terms.
So you,
you,
you fall in love with the problem.
You figure out the customer's pain point,
what are their pain points?
What are their obstacles?
You um do follow me home,
follow me home means just that we go to where they're at,
(34:02):
we go to where our customers or whoever we're trying to solve for,
we're going to where they're most comfortable and getting their information and just using terms like that,
like,
it just makes it more human mythic,
you know,
it makes it,
it makes it less technical and more about just helping,
(34:22):
helping people and that,
that's,
that's what we wanna do.
Right.
Absolutely.
I,
I love this.
Right.
Designed for delight and it,
it absolutely makes sense.
We're thinking about our customer,
whoever our customer base is and when we think I'm very interested in the workplace itself,
right?
And that's of course,
what ombuds are doing,
what is the workplace environment and how do we make workplaces,
(34:46):
the,
the,
the people who are trying to make the experience for the product,
for the customer or the community,
how do we make their environment better?
How do we make it so that they thrive and they know how to solve problems because problems are normal and they come about and,
and as you said,
it's not everybody at work that we're gonna wanna go have drinks with or invite over to our kids' birthday party.
(35:11):
So how do we,
how do we move forward when we face,
face these really difficult issues at work.
So,
can you tell us about a conflict that you've had in your work life and,
and how you dealt with it?
A couple that I had,
um,
let's see if we can boil it down to one.
(35:33):
You know,
I think,
um,
one of the,
I shouldn't,
I wouldn't say major,
but one of the conflicts that I think that I deal with a lot is finding that balance for,
for students,
finding that balance for staff and faculty and myself,
even in advocating for oneself off.
Sometimes when you're advocating,
(35:54):
it can,
if not done in the right arena,
it can sound like boasting,
it can be confused with narcissism,
it can be,
you know,
overshadowed by those things.
And I've always been in support of people advocating for themselves,
you know,
whether it is,
you know,
they're wanting more money or they're wanting a bigger office or,
(36:17):
you know,
whatever that need might be,
you know,
but it,
because it's always attributed to something that's less about the community and more about oneself.
Sometimes for me,
it's hard to separate the fact that this,
this person's advocating and,
(36:37):
and they're not getting selfish.
They're,
they're,
they're not just thinking about themselves even if they're the,
the,
uh the ones that will benefit from said,
said move.
I think that's one,
honestly,
I,
I deal with a lot.
I deal with the most,
especially because we're dealing with people who are working a lot and working around the clock.
(37:01):
And we are in roles where,
especially in housing,
they don't necessarily end at five.
And for some people that they can't understand that,
you know what I mean?
It's like,
oh,
well,
you know,
three o'clock is time to go and I always tell people who I'm interviewing,
you know,
we have front desks that are open 24 hours a day.
(37:23):
So as long as the desk is open and functioning,
we're working and so kind,
you know,
trying,
trying to balance compensating for that because how,
how do you compensate for someone who works every single day?
You know,
and,
and how you do is you,
you have to talk with people and get on an understanding of what work is,
(37:47):
what work is,
you know,
being available by phone.
Is that work or is that just a part of the lifestyle that's necessary for this particular job?
And so I think that is,
it's,
it's been hard,
I feel like we're dealing with a generation of students who have a demand for being compensated for whatever that they're doing,
(38:11):
you know,
what,
whatever they're doing.
And that's,
I try again,
I keep trying to tell myself that's not wrong,
it's not wrong to want to be compensated for work that you do.
That's,
there's nothing wrong with that.
But when you,
you have,
you know,
kind of like a servant type attitude that I have work to me being available by phone all of the time to my staff doesn't feel like work to me to be more,
(38:41):
it feels like that's just a part of what my life is by being in this particular role.
And so it has created lots of conflict over the years,
you know,
dealing with ras who feel like we're not being compensated enough,
we're not being given enough.
People don't understand us.
You know,
I've had assistant directors who had that concern.
(39:04):
I've,
you know,
I,
I've dealt with,
um,
even my fighting with myself,
you know,
do I need this?
Why am I coming?
Why do I think that this is something that is deserved of me,
you know,
having that understanding,
but just advocating for oneself,
that whole notion of what work is,
I think is a conflict that I think we'll always kind of go through because of just of what our role is,
(39:30):
you know,
at Wendy's,
if I worked 11 to 3,
it was 11 to 3 and it,
I'm done and I don't have to worry about who's making the fries when I get home.
I don't have to worry about those types of things.
You know,
even,
you know,
working at,
I worked at Lane Bryant,
you know,
for a while and even then,
you know,
when that time clock was done and I punched out I'm done.
(39:54):
But this being sometimes in higher ed,
that's not the case because colleges are living breathing things that are something occurring all of the time.
So therefore there are students here all the time.
If we work where students are,
we're at work all the time,
it's just a feeling and it's,
it's helping people understand and navigate that and really defining what work is versus what it's not.
(40:19):
That is so interesting and absolutely rife for potential conflict.
Absolutely.
People,
I mean,
people are at work to be compensated.
That is important and absolutely important aspect to be fairly compensated and people are at work for all different sorts of reasons.
People are there,
they have a,
they have a particular mission that they see they're doing others.
(40:41):
It's a stop gap,
others,
it's just,
I'm paying the mortgage and my mission is not here at work at someplace else.
Right.
So we think about vacations,
but I think it's really important depending,
you know,
think about.
Right.
So,
housing medical professionals,
there's,
there's other kinds of jobs that we don't think about that are not 9 to 5 kinds of jobs or whatever shift you may be on.
(41:04):
And,
and how do we,
how,
how do we really articulate that to a new person?
Because clarity is kindness.
How do you articulate a lifestyle?
It's very difficult to say,
you know,
you know,
what is it,
what does this mean?
You know,
if you,
so you work for D CS or something and you know,
(41:25):
you are on call,
what what,
how does compensation fairly play out and to be able to have those live conversations and for someone to give someone the space to be able to speak up for themselves.
What is fair to me?
How can that work within this space?
(41:47):
And therefore whether or not is this a place for me or not?
And,
and I,
you know,
and II,
I like that you were reticent to say this younger generation doesn't have a particular work ethic because I think that's what it is.
It's um and,
and you weren't saying that,
but I think some people want to say the younger generation isn't willing to work and I don't think that's it.
(42:10):
I think it's a reval valuation of what do I owe work?
How much of myself is in the job description,
right?
To be meet expectations,
to be a good employee,
how much,
how much blood certain tears do I owe them for the paycheck,
right?
(42:30):
Um And,
and this is a good conversation and even in the 9 to 5,
you know,
what does that look like?
What does,
what does it look like to,
to meet expectations to see,
exceed expectations?
And why should I exceed it?
What,
what am I getting out of it when we think about job versus career?
So,
gosh,
you know,
that's how,
(42:52):
how have you helped others or how have you dealt with people who have reported to you that you think they are,
they don't see it.
They are not getting,
they're not doing their basic job.
How,
how have you dealt with that?
Um,
so if they're not,
if they're not doing their basic job and,
and we're talking,
meaning,
you know,
minimum qualifications to me,
(43:13):
that's the easy part to deal with that.
That's the easy part that is,
you know,
you're,
you're supposed to be doing this many programs and you're not,
you're supposed to be showing up at these particular times and you're not,
you're supposed to be filling out this particular paperwork and you're not,
you know,
that's,
that's our minimal expectations where it does get tough and,
and I'm glad that you,
(43:33):
you said that is that where they do,
they,
they feel as though they are giving all that they have to give and then some,
but they're not seeing any reward for it.
And so one of the things that,
um,
I can,
I can remember a particular conversation that I had with a graduate student of mine who did not think that we were taking care of them,
(44:01):
that we had their best interests at heart,
that we had their best interest in mind when it came to,
you know,
they,
they have to do training for a few weeks,
then they have to train their staff for a few weeks and then they have to start the school year and things like that.
And so what I had to do was talk about the compensation they received.
(44:22):
That's not in the form of a paycheck.
So when you're here for training,
all of your meals are taken care of.
When you are on campus,
your housing is taken care of.
That's your light bill,
your internet bill,
your water bill.
You know,
those things are taken care of.
When you have family that comes to visit,
(44:44):
you have an apartment that you have rearranged to let them stay in.
Um when you are working during the school year and during the work day,
there's something exciting happened on campus,
that's not time off for you.
That's a part of your work day that you get to participate in when there's things that are happening late at night.
(45:05):
And so I say to you,
you know,
well,
since you did that,
you don't need to come in until this time,
those are things that I cannot put a tangible dollar amount on.
But that is a,
that,
that type of flexibility and freedom is not something that you can get in other roles because the,
the,
the,
the what whatever that work is isn't set up or isn't conducive to that type of flexibility.
(45:32):
And so really helping people understand the tangibles and things like that,
that they have,
that they're not,
they're not getting a paycheck like it,
you can't attest money to it.
But there are that,
that flexibility is payment in itself.
The fact that I work at a place where my kids can come during the school and work day to watch the eclipse.
(45:59):
You,
you can't put money on.
Oh,
that costs this much.
You,
you can't compensate that.
But being able to have that flexibility with no questions asked.
It,
it is a privilege.
It's truly a privilege.
My husband and I have talked about this how,
you know,
our kids have things during the school day though.
They have what's called community circle and with where they get to come and share with parents the things that they learn.
(46:25):
But it happens at 130 on,
on once a month on Thursday and we can leave work to go and do that.
Now,
of course,
we,
we have our sick leave and our annual leave.
But again,
having that flexibility where a doctor can't just walk away from surgery,
like you can't just walk up no appointments today because I'm going to see my kids or that person that works in the grocery store,
(46:47):
he's on a shift.
You can't just leave for those things.
I place value in that.
I'm able to do that,
you know what I mean?
And so that person working at the grocery store has to find what can they place value on that,
that job allows for them that they're not able to see in a paycheck.
Yeah.
(47:08):
I think that's really important when we think about what is a life well lived and,
and what kind of jobs or kind of careers that we want has so much to do with what kind of vision we have for ourselves and our families,
if we choose to have families and what do we prize?
Some people really prize the regularity of the 8 to 5 or the whatever shift somebody might be on and not bringing anything home and not being on call.
(47:35):
And that's what they prize and other people prize.
Oh,
being on call.
That's no big deal.
I don't feel anything about that because this is part of where my passion is and I prize this kind of flexibility and a lot of that is,
I think helping people see,
as you said,
well,
what is your real compensation?
What is your lifestyle and every job that we choose has a certain kind of lifestyle attached to it.
(48:01):
There's a dollar amount of lifestyle but there's also the life we live and we within the work environment.
And so especially in an unusual field like yours that isn't so cut and dry when we want to know.
Precisely.
Ok.
I'm working 40 hours a week and anything else.
(48:22):
I get overtime for some jobs.
It's completely reasonable and other jobs it's know you're salaried and this is what is included and you,
you say yes or you say no.
Right.
And so everybody gets to decide if they stay here.
They go.
But it's,
it's important to have those conversations so that we don't feel taken advantage of.
(48:43):
And sometimes we are taken advantage of and sometimes it's that we don't really see that there are these other opportunities.
We don't really see the the perks,
so to speak of what we have,
right?
So when you look into the future of work and you think about your babies out in the workforce,
(49:04):
what do you want for them?
What what do you think needs to happen?
So that not only is everybody treated with dignity and respect,
but that people are encouraged to thrive.
My answer is going to sound so simplistic and I think this is why they call me calling in at some time.
(49:24):
But I really,
I really believe that when my kids,
you know,
are out in the workforce to be in a place where they feel heard is really what's most important,
like for someone to feel hurt doesn't mean that people are agreeing with them all the time.
(49:45):
It doesn't mean that they're right feeling heard means that if they're doing something wrong,
someone would be able to speak to them in a manner that,
that can fix change in them so that they can understand that they don't feel belittled,
they don't,
they don't feel like they're not worthy.
They,
they,
they don't put all of,
(50:06):
you know,
all of their eggs in one basket and feel like if I'm not successful in this,
I'm not successful in anything,
um,
real,
you know,
going being in a,
in a place where they can be understood as who they are as individuals and someone can then understand who they are and shape them to get the best versions of themselves for the job that they're doing.
(50:28):
I want someone to be able to tell them,
you know,
this might not be the right area for you and this is why and for them to be able to hear that and really,
really think about that and,
and make that next step to,
to what,
where they might fit in,
being able to,
to just be heard and love what they do and for people to give them respect and,
(50:54):
and help them on their way and not be a barrier,
you know,
help,
help them to,
to just be the best versions of them,
them themselves because honestly,
we're all just trying to make it and the path to making it looks different for absolutely everybody and everybody needs grace.
(51:16):
Everybody needs that flexibility to just be who they are and to be successful in what they're doing.
And if what they're doing isn't the right space for them.
They just need someone with some tact who's coming from a place of understanding,
to help guide them,
to see that,
to help,
see,
you know what this isn't right for you.
And this is why,
(51:36):
but this isn't the end,
that's not the end of the story for you and to help them realize that potential.
And so for uh for me I just,
that's what I try to do for people now.
That's what I want to do for people.
That's why I feel like people thrive when they feel like they're being hurt,
(51:57):
not agreed with but heard.
Well,
I love that,
Lekesha.
Thank you so much for your time.
Um It's been so great chatting with you today.
Oh,
this has been,
this has been such an amazing experience.
I truly am better because I have met you and being able to talk with you.
It was such a great experience and thank you for the opportunity.
(52:19):
Oh,
likewise,
absolutely.
Take care.
Thank you.
You too,
Lekesha.
Thank you so much for being on Conflict Managed.
I absolutely enjoyed our conversation.
You are so delightful to chat with and I appreciate the work that you're doing to help people at your institution to have the best possible outcomes for the issues that they face.
(52:41):
We face real issues in having someone like you as an ombuds or in housing to be able to talk about real needs and real difficulties so that the individual can make a change.
That's just so wonderful.
Come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday Conflict Managed,
just produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
(53:06):
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictrestoration.com.
If you haven't had a chance to check out my new book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (53:13):
Tips to Ensure Failure. It's 80 tips of what not to do and starts a conversation about what to do.
Instead,
our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot.
And remember,
conflict is normal and to be expected,
let's deal with it until next time.
Take care.
(53:41):
So.
All right,
this is all right.
I got it.
I do wraps now.
Get a sound side uptight,
Jack asking questions.
(00:25):
So,
welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
This week on Conflict Managed,
we welcome LeKesha Taylor.
LeKesha is a seasoned housing and residence life professional from Huntington,
West Virginia.
She is a proud alum of Parkersburg High School go Big Reds in Parkersburg,
West Virginia.
(00:46):
Currently,
she serves as the Associate Director of Residence Life and the University Ombuds for her alma mater Marshall University.
She has served as a team member for housing since 1999.
While still new to the field of the Ombuds.
She became a member of the International Ombuds Association in 2021 and reestablished the Ombuds office at Marshall University serving as an ombuds to faculty and staff and most recently in 2023 adding in students as well.
(01:15):
During her tenure at Marshall University,
she has served on a host of committees serving all Marshall and Huntington community constituents,
including president commissions and the University Women of Color committee,
behavioral intervention team and a week of welcome.
She was privileged to be part of the John Marshall Leadership fellows,
2022 cohort and a facilitator and speaker for 2021 through 2024.
(01:40):
Her family is her greatest accomplishment and spending time with them is her preferred pastime.
She is a wife to a wonderful husband,
Jason and mother to two beautiful Children,
Emberly and Elias,
as well as a parent to Moose hotdog and Chloe Bell.
Good morning Lekesia and welcome to Conflict
Managed.
Good morning.
Thanks for having me.
(02:00):
It's so lovely to see you.
We're recording the day after the eclipse.
Did you get to watch any of the eclipse?
I did.
So it was great.
My kids were able to join me here at work along with my husband and they came down and we had the glasses and we're joining all the students out on the field,
checking it out.
So it was a good time.
Oh,
that sounds like a lot of fun.
(02:20):
Did you,
were you in the path of total eclipse or was I as soon as we got?
I think it was 94% coverage.
So we didn't get complete totality,
but we definitely got the full experience of,
you know,
it being very bright to being very dust like and then the temperature going down and things like that.
So that was definitely something cool to experience as a kid.
(02:43):
If you were listening elsewhere in the world,
the US was eclipse crazy on March April.
Sorry April 8th.
I'm like,
oh I don't even know what month I'm in April 8th,
but now things are back to normal.
So,
Lakeisha,
I like to start,
um,
how I start all my podcast.
I want to hear about the first job you ever had as a young person?
(03:05):
Oh,
ok.
First job I ever had was actually at Wendy's.
Um,
it was at,
um,
in my hometown Parkins Burg,
West Virginia and my cousins actually worked there and I knew that I wanted to get a car and so started working at Wendy's and there's no,
(03:27):
I've never had a job.
I didn't like,
which is,
and I know that's weird to say,
but even though it was fast food,
I liked helping the customers,
you know,
when they came in upset,
uh because their burger had onion and they didn't want onion,
you know,
or,
you know,
they asked for chili and it's not hot enough,
you know,
those types of things,
even managing conflict then and dealing with people being unhappy then like it started then for me where it just,
(03:54):
it was something that just came natural.
It wasn't anything that ever really got me upset.
Um,
or,
or made me feel put out.
I liked working with my coworkers.
I was young,
so I was normally the youngest on staff,
you know,
but I was always committed,
you know,
always committed to,
to working with them to picking up shifts when I could,
(04:17):
even when I couldn't work that often,
you know,
because of school and things like that.
But summers were,
summers were great.
I had free availability and could work all the time and,
you know,
just really enjoyed it,
enjoyed the space.
But Wendy's is my home.
It's so interesting because it sounds like problem solving has just come naturally to you because a lot of times when a customer comes,
(04:40):
especially,
it's pretty high pressure,
um,
working in the food industry because people,
people come and they present and they're upset because they're hungry.
Right?
And their expectations are not being met and that sort of convergence of this,
I'm,
I'm very hungry and I'm upset and it seems that you've met that with just instead of matching their energy thinking about it as ok.
(05:04):
Well,
this is a problem to be solved.
Mhm.
Yeah.
I've never really,
it's really interesting,
even as I can remember,
even as far as,
like in,
in elementary school,
you know,
in middle school when it came to conflict,
I was,
I was never one to be a fighter.
I always fought back in the sense that there was conflict with my words and even though I had a stature of kind of being scared because I was always the bigger kid,
(05:32):
you know?
And so it's not that I got picked on a lot or anything like that.
Um,
in fact,
I really didn't get picked on but I always wanted to come to the rescue of those who were?
It seems I was always um looking out for the little guy,
you know what I mean?
Um But not in the sense of being a fighter more in the sense of,
(05:53):
you know,
why are we treating this person like that?
And so I can remember being like that from,
from very,
very young.
I honestly think it intensified once my brother was born because that was my little brother and,
and taking care of him.
And as he got older,
he was the fighter.
Like he was like,
he,
he was,
(06:14):
he was ready to throw down with his hand,
you know,
and that was never me.
But it was,
it was very interesting.
I like thinking about it now and,
and looking back at how even when conflict would arise or problems would arise,
I was always trying to talk it out or get the parties to talk through it.
You know,
friend groups getting upset with each other.
(06:36):
Well,
what did they say?
And what did they say?
And,
and that,
that question of,
ok,
but are you hearing what they're saying?
Here's where they're coming from?
Um You'll hear my,
if you were to interview my friends,
they would tell you that I get on their nerves because you never take our side.
You know,
(06:56):
that's what I,
I mean,
I hear it all the time.
You never take our side,
you're always talking about,
you know what the other person is thinking?
And that's because I'm,
I'm always in the mode of solving the problem,
like getting to the root of what's really going on.
That is so funny.
I think,
I think we are separated at birth because that is the same criticism my friends and sometimes my husband has of me and I have to think,
(07:20):
ok,
I,
I'm not,
I don't always have to be solving the problem.
Sometimes I just need to be,
yeah,
you're right.
You know,
sometimes people just want to be listened to and they,
they want to be affirmed,
right?
They want,
they want their side instead of,
well,
so sure that's the right way to take it,
or did you consider this or?
(07:40):
Right.
And so,
yeah,
I absolutely hear that echoed when you think about your Wendy's job.
What was the management?
Like,
management was one of the crew if that makes sense.
Um,
they were older,
I believe,
well,
some of them were older but they were still part of the,
(08:00):
the,
the,
the clique,
the,
the group that,
you know,
that hung out after hours.
I think that they were,
I think attentive to people's needs.
I didn't really understand the business side,
you know,
of like being a manager,
making sure,
you know,
you're ordering the right things,
which is really funny.
I never saw them doing any of that stuff,
(08:22):
you know,
like that.
I never saw him,
like,
figuring out inventory or trying to understand,
you know,
sales,
you know,
we would have the district managers and people like that come in sometimes.
But I,
I just never saw that from them.
They were always just a part of the line.
They were helping bag food,
they were helping make,
make the sandwiches or make the salads and things like that.
(08:43):
It never seemed like there was this,
like I knew they were managers and I knew that they were in control but it never felt that way.
I never felt like the separation.
That is,
that is really interesting.
I think it's interesting for a variety of points of view because when we're new to the workforce,
a lot of times,
we don't think about the different roles that individuals play.
(09:05):
Right?
And so sometimes people have the complaint,
the manager is never around and therefore they're not doing their job.
And sometimes,
I mean,
of course,
that could be the case and sometimes it's just that we don't really know what their job is.
It doesn't sound like that's the case.
Um where you were at.
I mean,
it's so lovely to really feel like and see bosses,
(09:26):
managers just working alongside because we're all in this together.
We have different roles which you said was clear,
but we're all doing this work,
we're all going towards the same mission of feeding the customer and making sure they have a good experience.
Absolutely.
And I,
and I know that that is again,
(09:46):
like when you stop just to think about like what has shaped you as you're working and uh as you're being a manager yourself,
when you become a manager and things like that,
and you start thinking about,
you know,
you go to the workshops and they're asking,
you know,
well,
what kind of shape you and how did you develop your philosophy?
And uh and that's why I say I really never had a bad job because in all of my jobs that I've had that has always been the case,
(10:11):
either I am working right alongside my manager or they are including me,
you know,
in decision making.
Um They were including me to help,
how do I navigate this,
you know,
now don't get me wrong.
I definitely had,
you know,
times where people were,
you know,
really chippy with each other and getting on each other's nerves and things like that.
(10:33):
But it was,
I always seem to be in,
in each of the roles that I've had that,
that mediator,
that,
that common space that the um the level headed one when it came to my particular role just because I just,
I thrive in positivity not to be a pollyanna about it or anything like that.
(10:54):
But I thrive in positive,
in,
in positive situations.
And so I'm gonna make my best effort to keep things as positive as possible.
And I think that by doing that,
it helps other people try to do that at least when I'm around as well.
I really like the point that you've made that you've had all these good experiences,
(11:15):
but it doesn't mean that there weren't any of at any negative times because,
right,
having,
um,
a good job does not mean no conflict that's high in the sky,
that's,
you know,
unrealistic.
And so to really think about our job experiences as whole experiences with whole people that means we're going to have conflict.
(11:37):
So a good job does not mean conflict free.
It usually means conflict that's being managed.
And I also like,
you know,
that you said you're being positive doesn't mean you're a Pollyanna,
which again,
I get accused of being,
you know,
naive or too positive.
And there's this term toxic positivity,
which is a problem but toxic positivity is not addressing issues.
(12:00):
I would much rather address the issue and move forward so that we can actually be collaborative and we can actually get the benefit of the people around us.
But I absolutely prefer if we're talking about people,
I want to hear about the good things.
I really don't want to hear trash talk about people.
I don't see what that serves.
(12:20):
I,
I see the negative of that and sometimes that can drive people crazy when they feel like they're venting and I feel like they're gossiping and I don't wanna be around that,
right?
And I,
and I do run in and I run into that frequently.
I think I mean,
I think lots of people do and you kind of get stuck in this place where,
you know,
you might even agree with them.
You know what I mean?
(12:41):
Like,
yes,
this,
this person does get on my nerves or yes,
I don't,
I don't like that part of their personality or that doesn't mesh well with me and I've,
I've learned,
like,
that's ok.
Like,
I,
I don't have to like everybody.
I don't have to want to spend time with them after work.
I don't want have to being in the know of what's going on in their world,
(13:02):
you know,
especially with social media,
things like that.
Like I don't have to be friends with people on Facebook.
I don't have to like and share things just be just because,
you know,
I,
I am a,
I,
I have become so comfortable in my skin and that I,
I don't feel that pressure and lots of people ask me well,
(13:25):
how did,
how did you get there?
I,
and I don't,
I don't know but,
you know,
a true word to it other than my priorities are different.
My priority,
the what's happening in those spaces or the gossiping that's happening,
that's not a priori priority to me.
(13:48):
My family,
my kids are a priority,
you know,
do,
do I,
did I get my list of things done is my priority.
And so what,
that's what I put my focus on.
That's what I put my effort into because that's the other thing is that being a part of the,
the gossiping mills and,
and,
and being tied down by social media takes a lot of effort.
(14:10):
It,
it takes a lot of effort.
It takes a lot of strength,
it takes a line,
lot of mind,
like mind matter.
And honestly,
after having my kids,
I just don't have that much,
you know,
my mind,
you know,
when you're dealing with work and,
and being a wife and being a mom and,
and things like that,
I just don't have the space to deal with that.
(14:33):
You know what I mean?
So,
I don't,
I don't know that there is a,
oh,
do these three steps and you'll be fine.
You know what I mean?
I,
I don't,
I don't think that's it.
I think that person has to figure out what their priorities are and let those priorities dictate how they deal with those things,
how they deal,
especially with conflict,
how they choose to deal with that.
(14:55):
I think that's really wise when we,
a lot of times when we are gossiping,
it's because we're coming from a disempowered place.
I don't know what else to do.
I am in pain.
This is wrong.
Nobody is listening to me.
I don't know where else to go.
And so there's a sort of ruminating and then,
you know,
misery loves company.
So I ruminate with other people and then I feel which is a pretty,
(15:17):
in a powerful psychological need to feel like,
oh this is other people see this too.
But I think your advice of taking a step back and saying what is meaningful to me,
what do I want to be spending my time thinking about where do I want to spend my energy?
(15:37):
And I think if we take account,
it's almost like looking at a budget.
Where do I really want to be spending my money?
Well,
if I don't know what I'm spending my money on,
I'm not really making these conscious decisions.
I think it's the same thing with space in our mind.
Where,
what do I want to be thinking about and where do I want to be putting my energy?
And if we're not conscious about that,
we can slip into bad habits of the mind.
(16:00):
And gossiping is a bad habit of the mind.
Gossiping here is understood where you're talking about somebody behind their back things you wouldn't say to their face,
things that are not fruitful,
typically not kind and not courageous,
so on and so forth.
And so it,
it is a doesn't lead to happy work environments.
So the thing that we actually want or work environments that,
(16:22):
that work that are,
are free from unnecessary conflict.
And I,
you know,
I,
again,
I'm not saying these things to say that I've never been a part of that crowd that I've never done.
I,
I've never thought up I've never thought about.
That's a lie.
Yeah.
Let me put,
let me put myself in that pot too.
(16:43):
And I'm not saying I've never done it.
I think I never done it.
I just,
I,
I think what has,
what happened is that again?
You start to recognize times in your life where you have felt down or felt,
you know,
when you haven't felt like your best,
you,
what were things that were going on?
What,
what were things that that were happening?
(17:04):
What was a part of your priority list?
What was a part of your environment?
And I think when those times happened,
those were the things that I was a part of those were the things that were more prevalent in my life.
And that's why I can say now like it's not something that I enjoy.
It's not something that I can be my best version of me when I'm in that space or dealing with,
(17:30):
with those types of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So from Wendy's eventually you go to college and what did you major in,
in college?
So I majored in elementary education.
I had a dream.
I saw,
well,
not like a real dream,
but like I saw on Disney,
there were,
(17:50):
it was a,
it was an award show on Disney.
I was a Disney kid like I always watch and there were teachers receiving awards for the work that they had done.
And I was like that,
that's what I want.
That's what I want with my life.
I want to be invited to Disney to be given an award for being the best teacher ever and stimulating young minds and making a change in this world through Children.
(18:18):
Like that's what I wanted to do.
So I majored in elementary education.
Um I got my bachelor's there and then um I did student teaching and I had the best experience,
student teaching.
I actually ended up winning student teacher of the year of the Disney,
(18:41):
but Marshall's version,
um and I,
I student taught in um in middle school.
So I did elementary my first eight weeks and then middle school,
my second eight weeks,
I was very afraid of middle school.
I did not see myself there.
I did not see myself being able to connect with the students.
(19:02):
They're just in a really weird space in middle school,
you know,
and the,
and the thought processes and ended up loving it.
And so when I got my master's,
I decided to do secondary and that way I could teach,
you know,
from elementary school to high school wherever it fell.
And I had actually intended on going into teachers of America where they send you,
(19:24):
you know,
into low sef and,
you know,
communities and things like that to teach.
But then I got,
I was in housing and it just seemed like every,
every time I was at a place where,
ok,
now I'm moving on another opportunity popped up in housing.
So I was working in the front desk and then I was supposed to be hired as an R A and I was asked to be the coordinator for the program.
(19:52):
So I was like,
oh,
yeah,
that's a good opportunity.
Well,
then after that happened,
then it was like,
well,
there's a building here,
like,
would you like to be a residence director?
So then I'm doing that and then an assistant director,
you know,
so it just every step,
I just kept going up the proverbial ladder here at Marshall and people were like,
did you miss teaching or do you miss doing that at the time?
(20:14):
And those roles training was a part of my,
my,
my role,
a heavy part.
And I'm like,
well,
I'm still teaching my classrooms is bigger because I have residence halls instead of,
you know,
one class of 30 students.
So,
yeah,
that is so very interesting to be successful as a student teacher.
And then you,
(20:34):
you graduate with your masters.
But so I take it that you started working at housing when you were at Marshall's an undergrad.
Is that correct?
Yes.
So I,
I actually started working the front desk of the residence hall my second year of school.
So in nine,
so I started in 98 started working the front desk in 99.
And the only it was interest that was really interesting too was that I only started working the front desk because a few friends of mine though were,
(21:00):
like,
you talk with everyone.
Why are you not working the front desk?
I'm like,
oh,
I can get paid to do that.
Yeah.
Like I absolutely,
I'll do that,
you know.
And so I,
I got through college by just chatting with people and making sure people were safe and secure while working the desk and checking keys and signing in guests.
(21:23):
You know,
and it just that social aspect for me was that,
that's what I need,
that's all I needed because that's what I what I thrive on.
I thrive on dealing with people.
So,
so recently your job has augmented a little bit and now you are a university ombuds,
you're still doing housing,
is that correct?
And you're doing um ombuds in work.
(21:44):
Can you tell us how that came about?
And maybe first for the audience who may are not familiar with the Ombuds world,
what,
what is an ombuds?
Sure.
So um an ombud is we actually talked about this at the uh the conference.
But,
you know,
we always tend to say ombuds are the conflict mediators and that obviously always like makes it seem like all we deal with our problems.
(22:10):
We,
while we do deal with problems,
it's honestly more about helping people realize the power that they have when they within themselves,
they handle situations that they might encounter.
It's a role that allows people to come in and be their authentic self.
Have a safe space to be able to talk about whatever it is that they're dealing with and not in a way to,
(22:31):
to give them therapy,
so to speak.
Because that's,
that's a whole other field.
And I would not put us in the category of therapist but gives them a space to where they can say here's what I'm going through.
Here's what I would like to see happen.
But how do I do that?
What steps can I take?
What opportunities do I have?
What policies are in place and that bu can help them find the answers to those questions.
(22:56):
It's about helping a person do for themselves.
I'm not here to be your mouthpiece.
I'm not here to,
to solve the problem for you.
I'm here to give you information to help you make the best decision for you.
You get to make that decision,
you get to decide how we move forward,
giving you that power back to take control of whatever it is that you might be dealing with.
(23:19):
So that's really what Ombuds do.
Marshall University had an Ombuds office um prior to COVID.
So I believe it was either 2018,
2019 and the position at the time they were on Buds,
but they were also um civic supposed to be civic engagement.
(23:41):
So interacting with the Huntington community,
not just the Marshall community trying to build those connections.
Well,
COVID hit and as with everything,
everything kind of shut down.
And so that office went dormant and I was a part of the John Marshall Leadership fellows cohort in 2020.
And basically what that is,
it's a group of faculty staff who are working on,
(24:04):
you know,
building their leadership skills,
um understanding of being a leader,
understanding conflict,
difficult conversations.
And so I,
I did that program and as a part of that program,
we come up with a problem that we're trying to solve.
The system is called D for D.
It's something that our President Smith,
who was our current president actually um came up with when he was in Silicon Valley where you take a problem and you fall in love with the problem,
(24:32):
you quit looking at the problem like an enemy.
And rather as this is a friend that I need to deal with.
So you fall in love with the problem,
you talk to those who are affected by the problem to try to come up with a solution um to come up with the best solution.
So you take it out of you trying to figure it out yourself and utilizing others to help you come to that realization.
(24:55):
I loved it.
I love the concept.
I was an advocate for once we,
we came up with trying to answer questions for students.
We found that sometimes students can get the run around on a college campus where they go to this office and they say,
oh,
you,
you're not in the right place.
You need to go here,
you need to go here.
So we came up with the friends of a herd chat and it was literally a chat that was open in the evening that were other students are not.
(25:20):
Students are answering questions for other students,
helping them through their problems,
telling them how to navigate the issues that they were encountering and absolutely loved it,
shopped it around.
I ran it for a couple of years before I was able to pass it off to student affairs to run.
And after that,
my,
I think she's a senior vice president for operations,
(25:43):
came to me and said that she was want or that they were wanting to restart the Ombuds office and would I be interested in starting that back up?
I had applied for the position back when it was um listed,
but I didn't get it at the time.
And so she asked me if I was ready to restart it,
she let me know it wasn't a full time job.
(26:04):
This is,
you know,
you're still having,
but to be getting the office together,
identifying a space,
you know,
building the charter,
you know,
thing,
things of that nature.
And so I jumped on it.
Absolutely jumped on it because I,
when I,
as I read about it as I became a member of the IO a just learning about the role,
it just seemed like my skill set let itself to directly to the work that bunch do and so fast forward now,
(26:33):
you know,
three years later,
I'm still here.
Um I also have a faculty on bus that I share the office with would love for it to be full time working on that still.
But just the work that I do is so rewarding it.
It's so rewarding and,
and so it's been,
it's been a great journey.
It really has.
It's such,
I'm so happy for you that,
(26:53):
um,
that you are in this job that you love.
And it's interesting to me to look at how people build their careers,
you know,
from the very first job that we ever have to,
the one that we currently have,
we have typically the one that we're doing because of the relationships,
the skills,
what we've learned along the way.
(27:14):
And it seems to me everything that you've done in housing,
it is,
is beds like,
I mean,
you are,
I think maybe probably in housing a little bit more directive because of the role,
you know,
be because,
you know,
people are,
you know,
they have to follow certain kinds of rules and,
and whatnot,
but it's certainly a,
a problem solving hub.
(27:36):
And that's what the Ombuds does,
whether,
whether they're in the university or in some sort of business setting,
an organizational ombuds is that person that is confidential,
that is informal.
It's,
the ombuds is not there to decide anything.
They are impartial and they're independent and of this person that every single organization needs in order to help empower their employees or their constituents.
(28:04):
So at the university,
students,
faculty and staff to be able to solve their own problems,
this is a problem that a lot of organizations have is who's there to solve the problem.
And in a hierarchical institution like universities,
a very hierarchical,
a lot of times the problems get pushed up because that's assumed.
(28:24):
Well,
you are my boss and this is very hierarchical.
So you have to solve it.
But the ombuds helps empower the individual,
whoever the individual is to solve the problem.
So I have a couple of questions for you the first though,
what I want to go back to is this falling in love with the problem?
I think that is so impactful because a lot of times we want to be in denial,
(28:48):
we run from the problem.
We don't want to look at it and we don't look at it because it's genuinely painful to us.
Then we miss the different avenues available to us to solve it.
Can you speak a little bit about this whole idea of falling in love with the problem?
Sure.
I I'm not gonna lie.
And initially it was a hard pill to swallow um because it was,
(29:12):
it was a different mindset for me.
I am a fixer,
right?
So by nature,
I'm a fixer.
I have an idea for how to solve the problem.
Let's just go with this idea and see what ha like I,
I'm a fixer deeper d and falling in love with the problem is getting rid of that mindset.
(29:33):
It is stop thinking that you have the solution and realizing that the people who have the solution are the people who are actually affected by the problem.
So a lot of times upper administration,
you know,
we and and that's what I am now in housing,
we tend to think about um what our students need like if we're student centered,
(29:57):
we're thinking about what our students need,
how,
how we need to make sure we get it to them.
How do we,
the type of environment we need to set up for them.
But we do that oftentimes without asking the students,
right?
Because we do,
we're doing what we think is best because it's based on the experiences that we've had.
And it's not to say that those experiences are wrong or those experiences are bad.
(30:20):
But if you're not including who it's for,
then do you really have the true notion or understanding of the problem?
And so um what we learned is when,
when you fall in love with the problem,
when we stop trying to,
to think about our solution and start listening to what our constituents are saying the problem we think was a big problem.
(30:45):
Normally wasn't even the problem.
It's something completely different and we're like,
we didn't even think about that.
You know.
And so when,
when,
and,
and when you fall in love with it,
when you learn to,
you know,
when you think about something that you love,
you work very hard to try to take care of it to try to nurture it.
And that's what we're doing with these problems.
(31:06):
That's what we're doing.
We're,
we're,
we're taking the time to nurture it to understand it better so we can move forward and make whatever it is better because the people have told us this is what they need.
Yeah,
like,
gosh,
there's so much richness in there.
It's just so true when there is a problem.
(31:27):
If,
if we are,
if we allow ourselves to look at it,
we think we have to solve it.
I certainly am a recovering fixer as well.
But,
you know,
but you know,
you know,
you just,
you're speaking about collaboration,
you're speaking about really getting other people's perspectives.
(31:47):
And I love that you,
that you didn't minimize your perspective,
right?
So,
you know,
that,
you know,
people in housing or people,
whoever are trying to solve the problem,
they,
they do have experiences and they do have wisdom and all this different kind of education,
be it academic or learned.
And yet there's,
there's more to the story than that.
(32:07):
And I think it's really also interesting that sometimes the problem I'm solving,
trying to solve isn't the problem at all,
but I am,
I'm seeing it from a particular lens and maybe because it's worrisome to me,
I'm just trying to get to it quickly and move on in my,
you know,
in my way to avert the pain that I feel about it.
(32:31):
So I thought gosh,
that's really,
you know,
embracing and that means embracing others,
embracing the community in which the stakeholders figuring out who the stakeholders are,
who does this,
who does this really matter to and what do they want,
what is reasonable,
what will actually solve it?
Um And what are the,
you know,
it's really looking at problems as opportunities and gosh,
(32:52):
we certainly don't want to think about problems as opportunities and they,
and they actually are,
they very much are that and,
and that,
that's the thing that D for D helps you realize is that it's called design for delight.
So if you ever want to look it up,
that's what,
that's what the,
the concept is probably designed for,
designed for the life.
But when you think about problems,
(33:15):
you know,
just like when you're talking about ombuds and you say it always deals with conflict that has a negative connotation sometimes just changing the thought process about what a problem actually is,
changes your a your outlook,
changes the aspect.
And the other thing that design for the light does is it,
(33:38):
it breaks it down into very common,
no,
not like theoretical but very common terms.
So you,
you,
you fall in love with the problem.
You figure out the customer's pain point,
what are their pain points?
What are their obstacles?
You um do follow me home,
follow me home means just that we go to where they're at,
(34:02):
we go to where our customers or whoever we're trying to solve for,
we're going to where they're most comfortable and getting their information and just using terms like that,
like,
it just makes it more human mythic,
you know,
it makes it,
it makes it less technical and more about just helping,
(34:22):
helping people and that,
that's,
that's what we wanna do.
Right.
Absolutely.
I,
I love this.
Right.
Designed for delight and it,
it absolutely makes sense.
We're thinking about our customer,
whoever our customer base is and when we think I'm very interested in the workplace itself,
right?
And that's of course,
what ombuds are doing,
what is the workplace environment and how do we make workplaces,
(34:46):
the,
the,
the people who are trying to make the experience for the product,
for the customer or the community,
how do we make their environment better?
How do we make it so that they thrive and they know how to solve problems because problems are normal and they come about and,
and as you said,
it's not everybody at work that we're gonna wanna go have drinks with or invite over to our kids' birthday party.
(35:11):
So how do we,
how do we move forward when we face,
face these really difficult issues at work.
So,
can you tell us about a conflict that you've had in your work life and,
and how you dealt with it?
A couple that I had,
um,
let's see if we can boil it down to one.
(35:33):
You know,
I think,
um,
one of the,
I shouldn't,
I wouldn't say major,
but one of the conflicts that I think that I deal with a lot is finding that balance for,
for students,
finding that balance for staff and faculty and myself,
even in advocating for oneself off.
Sometimes when you're advocating,
(35:54):
it can,
if not done in the right arena,
it can sound like boasting,
it can be confused with narcissism,
it can be,
you know,
overshadowed by those things.
And I've always been in support of people advocating for themselves,
you know,
whether it is,
you know,
they're wanting more money or they're wanting a bigger office or,
(36:17):
you know,
whatever that need might be,
you know,
but it,
because it's always attributed to something that's less about the community and more about oneself.
Sometimes for me,
it's hard to separate the fact that this,
this person's advocating and,
(36:37):
and they're not getting selfish.
They're,
they're,
they're not just thinking about themselves even if they're the,
the,
uh the ones that will benefit from said,
said move.
I think that's one,
honestly,
I,
I deal with a lot.
I deal with the most,
especially because we're dealing with people who are working a lot and working around the clock.
(37:01):
And we are in roles where,
especially in housing,
they don't necessarily end at five.
And for some people that they can't understand that,
you know what I mean?
It's like,
oh,
well,
you know,
three o'clock is time to go and I always tell people who I'm interviewing,
you know,
we have front desks that are open 24 hours a day.
(37:23):
So as long as the desk is open and functioning,
we're working and so kind,
you know,
trying,
trying to balance compensating for that because how,
how do you compensate for someone who works every single day?
You know,
and,
and how you do is you,
you have to talk with people and get on an understanding of what work is,
(37:47):
what work is,
you know,
being available by phone.
Is that work or is that just a part of the lifestyle that's necessary for this particular job?
And so I think that is,
it's,
it's been hard,
I feel like we're dealing with a generation of students who have a demand for being compensated for whatever that they're doing,
(38:11):
you know,
what,
whatever they're doing.
And that's,
I try again,
I keep trying to tell myself that's not wrong,
it's not wrong to want to be compensated for work that you do.
That's,
there's nothing wrong with that.
But when you,
you have,
you know,
kind of like a servant type attitude that I have work to me being available by phone all of the time to my staff doesn't feel like work to me to be more,
(38:41):
it feels like that's just a part of what my life is by being in this particular role.
And so it has created lots of conflict over the years,
you know,
dealing with ras who feel like we're not being compensated enough,
we're not being given enough.
People don't understand us.
You know,
I've had assistant directors who had that concern.
(39:04):
I've,
you know,
I,
I've dealt with,
um,
even my fighting with myself,
you know,
do I need this?
Why am I coming?
Why do I think that this is something that is deserved of me,
you know,
having that understanding,
but just advocating for oneself,
that whole notion of what work is,
I think is a conflict that I think we'll always kind of go through because of just of what our role is,
(39:30):
you know,
at Wendy's,
if I worked 11 to 3,
it was 11 to 3 and it,
I'm done and I don't have to worry about who's making the fries when I get home.
I don't have to worry about those types of things.
You know,
even,
you know,
working at,
I worked at Lane Bryant,
you know,
for a while and even then,
you know,
when that time clock was done and I punched out I'm done.
(39:54):
But this being sometimes in higher ed,
that's not the case because colleges are living breathing things that are something occurring all of the time.
So therefore there are students here all the time.
If we work where students are,
we're at work all the time,
it's just a feeling and it's,
it's helping people understand and navigate that and really defining what work is versus what it's not.
(40:19):
That is so interesting and absolutely rife for potential conflict.
Absolutely.
People,
I mean,
people are at work to be compensated.
That is important and absolutely important aspect to be fairly compensated and people are at work for all different sorts of reasons.
People are there,
they have a,
they have a particular mission that they see they're doing others.
(40:41):
It's a stop gap,
others,
it's just,
I'm paying the mortgage and my mission is not here at work at someplace else.
Right.
So we think about vacations,
but I think it's really important depending,
you know,
think about.
Right.
So,
housing medical professionals,
there's,
there's other kinds of jobs that we don't think about that are not 9 to 5 kinds of jobs or whatever shift you may be on.
(41:04):
And,
and how do we,
how,
how do we really articulate that to a new person?
Because clarity is kindness.
How do you articulate a lifestyle?
It's very difficult to say,
you know,
you know,
what is it,
what does this mean?
You know,
if you,
so you work for D CS or something and you know,
(41:25):
you are on call,
what what,
how does compensation fairly play out and to be able to have those live conversations and for someone to give someone the space to be able to speak up for themselves.
What is fair to me?
How can that work within this space?
(41:47):
And therefore whether or not is this a place for me or not?
And,
and I,
you know,
and II,
I like that you were reticent to say this younger generation doesn't have a particular work ethic because I think that's what it is.
It's um and,
and you weren't saying that,
but I think some people want to say the younger generation isn't willing to work and I don't think that's it.
(42:10):
I think it's a reval valuation of what do I owe work?
How much of myself is in the job description,
right?
To be meet expectations,
to be a good employee,
how much,
how much blood certain tears do I owe them for the paycheck,
right?
(42:30):
Um And,
and this is a good conversation and even in the 9 to 5,
you know,
what does that look like?
What does,
what does it look like to,
to meet expectations to see,
exceed expectations?
And why should I exceed it?
What,
what am I getting out of it when we think about job versus career?
So,
gosh,
you know,
that's how,
(42:52):
how have you helped others or how have you dealt with people who have reported to you that you think they are,
they don't see it.
They are not getting,
they're not doing their basic job.
How,
how have you dealt with that?
Um,
so if they're not,
if they're not doing their basic job and,
and we're talking,
meaning,
you know,
minimum qualifications to me,
(43:13):
that's the easy part to deal with that.
That's the easy part that is,
you know,
you're,
you're supposed to be doing this many programs and you're not,
you're supposed to be showing up at these particular times and you're not,
you're supposed to be filling out this particular paperwork and you're not,
you know,
that's,
that's our minimal expectations where it does get tough and,
and I'm glad that you,
(43:33):
you said that is that where they do,
they,
they feel as though they are giving all that they have to give and then some,
but they're not seeing any reward for it.
And so one of the things that,
um,
I can,
I can remember a particular conversation that I had with a graduate student of mine who did not think that we were taking care of them,
(44:01):
that we had their best interests at heart,
that we had their best interest in mind when it came to,
you know,
they,
they have to do training for a few weeks,
then they have to train their staff for a few weeks and then they have to start the school year and things like that.
And so what I had to do was talk about the compensation they received.
(44:22):
That's not in the form of a paycheck.
So when you're here for training,
all of your meals are taken care of.
When you are on campus,
your housing is taken care of.
That's your light bill,
your internet bill,
your water bill.
You know,
those things are taken care of.
When you have family that comes to visit,
(44:44):
you have an apartment that you have rearranged to let them stay in.
Um when you are working during the school year and during the work day,
there's something exciting happened on campus,
that's not time off for you.
That's a part of your work day that you get to participate in when there's things that are happening late at night.
(45:05):
And so I say to you,
you know,
well,
since you did that,
you don't need to come in until this time,
those are things that I cannot put a tangible dollar amount on.
But that is a,
that,
that type of flexibility and freedom is not something that you can get in other roles because the,
the,
the,
the what whatever that work is isn't set up or isn't conducive to that type of flexibility.
(45:32):
And so really helping people understand the tangibles and things like that,
that they have,
that they're not,
they're not getting a paycheck like it,
you can't attest money to it.
But there are that,
that flexibility is payment in itself.
The fact that I work at a place where my kids can come during the school and work day to watch the eclipse.
(45:59):
You,
you can't put money on.
Oh,
that costs this much.
You,
you can't compensate that.
But being able to have that flexibility with no questions asked.
It,
it is a privilege.
It's truly a privilege.
My husband and I have talked about this how,
you know,
our kids have things during the school day though.
They have what's called community circle and with where they get to come and share with parents the things that they learn.
(46:25):
But it happens at 130 on,
on once a month on Thursday and we can leave work to go and do that.
Now,
of course,
we,
we have our sick leave and our annual leave.
But again,
having that flexibility where a doctor can't just walk away from surgery,
like you can't just walk up no appointments today because I'm going to see my kids or that person that works in the grocery store,
(46:47):
he's on a shift.
You can't just leave for those things.
I place value in that.
I'm able to do that,
you know what I mean?
And so that person working at the grocery store has to find what can they place value on that,
that job allows for them that they're not able to see in a paycheck.
Yeah.
(47:08):
I think that's really important when we think about what is a life well lived and,
and what kind of jobs or kind of careers that we want has so much to do with what kind of vision we have for ourselves and our families,
if we choose to have families and what do we prize?
Some people really prize the regularity of the 8 to 5 or the whatever shift somebody might be on and not bringing anything home and not being on call.
(47:35):
And that's what they prize and other people prize.
Oh,
being on call.
That's no big deal.
I don't feel anything about that because this is part of where my passion is and I prize this kind of flexibility and a lot of that is,
I think helping people see,
as you said,
well,
what is your real compensation?
What is your lifestyle and every job that we choose has a certain kind of lifestyle attached to it.
(48:01):
There's a dollar amount of lifestyle but there's also the life we live and we within the work environment.
And so especially in an unusual field like yours that isn't so cut and dry when we want to know.
Precisely.
Ok.
I'm working 40 hours a week and anything else.
(48:22):
I get overtime for some jobs.
It's completely reasonable and other jobs it's know you're salaried and this is what is included and you,
you say yes or you say no.
Right.
And so everybody gets to decide if they stay here.
They go.
But it's,
it's important to have those conversations so that we don't feel taken advantage of.
(48:43):
And sometimes we are taken advantage of and sometimes it's that we don't really see that there are these other opportunities.
We don't really see the the perks,
so to speak of what we have,
right?
So when you look into the future of work and you think about your babies out in the workforce,
(49:04):
what do you want for them?
What what do you think needs to happen?
So that not only is everybody treated with dignity and respect,
but that people are encouraged to thrive.
My answer is going to sound so simplistic and I think this is why they call me calling in at some time.
(49:24):
But I really,
I really believe that when my kids,
you know,
are out in the workforce to be in a place where they feel heard is really what's most important,
like for someone to feel hurt doesn't mean that people are agreeing with them all the time.
(49:45):
It doesn't mean that they're right feeling heard means that if they're doing something wrong,
someone would be able to speak to them in a manner that,
that can fix change in them so that they can understand that they don't feel belittled,
they don't,
they don't feel like they're not worthy.
They,
they,
they don't put all of,
(50:06):
you know,
all of their eggs in one basket and feel like if I'm not successful in this,
I'm not successful in anything,
um,
real,
you know,
going being in a,
in a place where they can be understood as who they are as individuals and someone can then understand who they are and shape them to get the best versions of themselves for the job that they're doing.
(50:28):
I want someone to be able to tell them,
you know,
this might not be the right area for you and this is why and for them to be able to hear that and really,
really think about that and,
and make that next step to,
to what,
where they might fit in,
being able to,
to just be heard and love what they do and for people to give them respect and,
(50:54):
and help them on their way and not be a barrier,
you know,
help,
help them to,
to just be the best versions of them,
them themselves because honestly,
we're all just trying to make it and the path to making it looks different for absolutely everybody and everybody needs grace.
(51:16):
Everybody needs that flexibility to just be who they are and to be successful in what they're doing.
And if what they're doing isn't the right space for them.
They just need someone with some tact who's coming from a place of understanding,
to help guide them,
to see that,
to help,
see,
you know what this isn't right for you.
And this is why,
(51:36):
but this isn't the end,
that's not the end of the story for you and to help them realize that potential.
And so for uh for me I just,
that's what I try to do for people now.
That's what I want to do for people.
That's why I feel like people thrive when they feel like they're being hurt,
(51:57):
not agreed with but heard.
Well,
I love that,
Lekesha.
Thank you so much for your time.
Um It's been so great chatting with you today.
Oh,
this has been,
this has been such an amazing experience.
I truly am better because I have met you and being able to talk with you.
It was such a great experience and thank you for the opportunity.
(52:19):
Oh,
likewise,
absolutely.
Take care.
Thank you.
You too,
Lekesha.
Thank you so much for being on Conflict Managed.
I absolutely enjoyed our conversation.
You are so delightful to chat with and I appreciate the work that you're doing to help people at your institution to have the best possible outcomes for the issues that they face.
(52:41):
We face real issues in having someone like you as an ombuds or in housing to be able to talk about real needs and real difficulties so that the individual can make a change.
That's just so wonderful.
Come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday Conflict Managed,
just produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
(53:06):
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictrestoration.com.
If you haven't had a chance to check out my new book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (53:13):
Tips to Ensure Failure. It's 80 tips of what not to do and starts a conversation about what to do.
Instead,
our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot.
And remember,
conflict is normal and to be expected,
let's deal with it until next time.
Take care.
(53:41):
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