Ep 90: Mindful Work: Navigating Success, Relationships, and Self-Discovery

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
All right,
this is All right.
I got it under wraps now.
No,
get asking questions.

(00:25):
So,
welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
This week on Conflict Manage,
we welcome Thais Gibson,
a best selling author,
counselor speaker and leader in the personal development field.
She's been recognized by Psychology Today, Times
Business News,
the New York Post, Yahoo News, Success Magazine, Seo Weekly, and many other outlets for her cutting edge research on the subconscious mind and personal transformation.

(00:53):
Thais has a PhD and his certified in over 13 modalities including cognitive behavioral therapy,
N LP Somatic processing and traumatic work.
Her scientific research,
personal experience and compassionate approach led to her founding the Gibson integrated attachment theory,
a modern expansion of the attachment theory developed in the 19 sixties.
Integrated attachment theory empowers individuals to heal different attachments in their lives and reprogram any limiting thoughts and behaviors.

(01:21):
Thais's approach to personal development has accumulated over 38 million views across her social platforms,
helping thousands of people create tangible change in their lives.
Through her academic training and client based research,
Thais has created renowned and inspiring courses for personal development,
growth and relationships.
These teachings have been distilled into the in depth programs,

(01:44):
courses and modules inside of the personal development school.
Good morning,
Thais
Welcome to Conflict Managed.
Good morning.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so lovely to be chatting with you today in this new year in 2024.
Absolutely excited to be here with you.
Wonderful.
Well,
let's get started.
And will you tell us about the first job you ever had as a young person?

(02:07):
Yeah.
The first job I ever had as a young person was working in a restaurant.
I think I was about 16.
Um,
and,
um,
was a,
uh,
started off as a hostess and then later on a,
a waitress and,
um,
later on a bartender that helped me paid for,
for all of my,
uh,
education for school.
So,
did that all throughout college.
University for,

(02:27):
for quite a few years.
And,
um,
yeah,
that's where I started.
Were you at the same restaurant or?
Did you hop around a lot?
Oh,
hopped around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
what was,
what was that like?
What did you enjoy about working in the service industry?
I really liked working with people.
I really like talking to people.
I like that.

(02:47):
You could meet people.
I liked the busyness.
I like to be,
I,
I think I kind of thrive under pressure a little bit.
So I like that.
There would be like,
you know,
I always end up working in these very,
very busy places,
especially once I started bartending.
Um,
and I like that you kind of like,
get into work and you can chat and run around and then,
like,
sort of in a blink of an eye.
It's over.
I actually always enjoyed working.

(03:09):
I've definitely been like a work person my whole life.
I've always really liked working,
gotten a lot out of it,
even jobs that I had that were like,
you know,
jobs that other people wouldn't really like as much.
I still kind of like,
appreciate it.
Um,
I think I like the feeling of working hard.
Hm.
That is really interesting.
And the busyness.
I mean,
a lot of times we,
today we talk about work life balance and we don't want to be overworked.

(03:31):
But one thing that I hear from a variety of people,
quite a lot of people is when they feel like they aren't being utilized or being under utilized.
And this whole boredom that in general,
a lot of people experience and when you're in jobs like that,
certainly bartending or hosting waitressing it is you're constantly going.
There's no time to be bored.

(03:52):
Yes,
100% 100%.
And,
and you don't really have much of an opportunity to be in resistance I find because you're just sort of like in the flow of everything.
And I think I really appreciate that as well.
So when we are in the flow and we're doing our work and there's uh plenty of work to go around that there is this flow that goes through work.

(04:16):
Tell us a little bit about what you mean by not facing or not feeling resistance.
But,
but being in that flow,
I think it could be a very long topic.
But I think that um something that I spend a lot of time working with people on and under sort of like the attachment styles umbrella,
things like that,
where I spend a lot of like our school um focused on is there's something called personality needs.

(04:39):
So we all have these,
the subconscious set of needs that drives every single one of us.
And even if we're not consciously aware of it,
it's happening.
So these personality needs are these things that our subconscious mind essentially saw voids within and then when we had access to them,
because the subconscious mind is really seeking equilibrium.
What ends up happening is we end up being like hungering for these things.
And so we'll sort of almost overdo them.

(05:00):
A really obvious example is for me,
you know,
when I was a child growing up,
I really didn't have a lot of access to like education about emotional literacy or about like talking about feelings or needs or things like that.
So when I came across like personal development or personal growth work that became a huge need of mine.
So I'd like really hunger for that as an adult.

(05:20):
And so we'll sort of have these voids somewhere and then when we get access to them later in life,
we tend to really,
really,
um,
push for them and,
and really focus on them.
So everybody has them.
They can be things like emotional connection,
security,
comfort,
personal growth for some people.
It can range for,
for,
there's about 40 or 50 top ones.
So I won't go through all of them.
But,
but um what's interesting is that when you're in alignment with your personality needs,

(05:43):
you have a greater access to being in flow state.
So if you're in a place where,
you know,
you're really aligned for me,
I work with people.
I do well,
webinars,
things like that in our school.
And for me,
like my top personality needs are personal growth,
um career growth,
freedom,
I have a lot of freedom and flexibility,
working from home,
um emotional connection,
spiritual growth.
Like so when I'm in that line of work,

(06:04):
II,
I as an adult,
I have so much access to flow,
right?
Because my conscious mind and subconscious mind are in alignment with one another.
What my conscious mind is intending to do and what subconscious drivers are or personality needs are,
are really in alignment.
So I have very little resistance to work.
But I think the biggest place where you'll see people get frustrated is when they aren't being pushed where there,

(06:25):
there,
you know,
there is room to be bored,
there isn't a lot there and then they're out of alignment with their personality needs,
it gets really difficult.
And so,
like,
the analogy I often give is like,
if you took me and put me with my personality needs into the job of an accountant,
you know,
it's a great job.
But for me,
like,
there's no personal growth,

(06:45):
there's no emotional connection,
there's no,
there's less freedom and flexibility.
A lot of people have to go into the office.
So all of a sudden,
I would procrastinate more.
I would be in resistance more.
I would get frustrated more and,
and you know,
more often we think of like people sabotaging from that space and there's no actual such thing as sabotage.
It's just a self conscious strategy to get back into your needs.
So what will happen is your conscious mind?

(07:07):
Let's take my personality needs your,
let's say I'm an accountant.
For example,
my conscious mind would say go to your accounting job in the morning,
let's get going,
get out of bed,
get to work.
My subconscious would be like,
no,
we're hungering to be in a place where we can connect with people,
talk about personal growth and development,
have the freedom and flexibility to do things on your own schedule.
And so I would experience a lot of resistance,

(07:28):
a lot of sabotage in my life and what self sabotage really is.
It's on our conscious mind intending to sabotage ourselves.
We don't sit there and say I'm going to sabotage myself today.
What we experience as self sabotage or procrastination are actually just feedback about our conscious and subconscious mind being out of alignment with each other.
So conscious mind intends one thing.
Subconscious has a different set of programs.
And what's really interesting is as somebody who's spent a lot of work in the subconscious area of life with the background in hypnotism and LP all that kind of stuff as well is that your subconscious mind can never or sorry,

(07:59):
your conscious mind will never outi or overpower your subconscious mind.
So we can have all these intentions,
you know,
sometimes people will be like,
I want to make more money or I want to stop getting angry in relationships or I want to be in less resistance at work,
we can intend all these things.
But unless our subconscious programming is in alignment,
it won't happen that way.
So sort of decoding that and understanding that for ourselves and what that's made up of can be really,

(08:21):
really valuable for us and also will,
will prevent burnout a lot of the time as well.
So how did you get interested?
Well,
maybe let me ask you this question.
So as you're going through and,
and you're working in these different restaurants and bars and you're going through college,
what did you major in?
Psychology?
Psychology?
So what have you always had this interest in the mind?

(08:42):
And behavior.
Yeah,
I think I grew up,
like I,
I really went through a lot of struggles as a teenager.
Um,
but prior to that I just grew up in a pretty chaotic tumultuous environment,
saw a really messy divorce was kind of in the middle of it a lot.
And I think from a really young age I was like,
why,
what is going on?

(09:02):
Why are people like this?
Um,
and at a very,
very young age,
for whatever reason,
I would always have people opening up to me about stuff like I would be on an airplane.
And I remember,
you know,
getting,
I was like 12 and this woman next to me was telling me all about her divorce and all these things.
And I remember being like,
should I tell her I'm 12 years old and,
you know,
I would just always sort of be in that position and I liked it.

(09:25):
I,
I enjoyed speaking with people.
So I think there was something just there where I would be really present.
Um And then also I was really interested and intrigued about people for a very long time.
So I always knew that was the,
the space that I wanted to go into.
That is so interesting.
And there are many times when you look at where people are,
when they're happy and thriving and,
and you look at what they were interested in as Children.

(09:47):
A lot of times there is this alignment that if they can find those sorts of jobs that fit with the things that really came na come naturally to them natural affinities.
Now,
sometimes those don't,
don't work out for individuals.
But,
uh,
many times it is interesting those first jobs or those first,
um,
our actions have a lot,

(10:07):
tell us a lot about what we value,
who we are and where our strengths are 100%.
And I think that sometimes we,
you know,
it's always so simple like that.
For me,
there is parts I liked about bartending,
definitely the connection aspect,
but obviously,
it's not,
you know,
fully what I'm doing now for work or fully in alignment.
And I think sometimes people also have to realize to be patient and to take a stepping stone on the the path there.

(10:30):
If we can get clear about what we want,
it's almost like a straight line to achieving that or designing your life that way.
But by getting clear about it and then taking this sort of necessary steps over time,
it can be very valuable.
And honestly,
a big part of those necessary steps are knowing your personality needs.
Um Because when you understand what those things are,
it's like these are the things that you're always gravitating towards some of the questions that people are looking to even identify those things are like,

(10:54):
how do you spend your free time?
Um Because those are the things that like we are doing anyways.
Right.
Like I know for myself just to keep giving examples to people in my free time,
I'm listening to personal growth podcasts or books or audio,
you know,
audio books or reading or um creating content or,
you know,
things like that.
Um Or I'm emotionally connecting with people and making time for that or I'm learning about things that impact like our freedom as human beings or,

(11:20):
you know,
so,
so there's,
you'll see that there,
there are these sort of natural affinities there.
It's also where we spend our money,
um which is super interesting,
you know,
if somebody has a really high personality need around something like materialism,
they're going to find themselves in a position where they're spending maybe more than their means for the fancy car or the fancy house.
If somebody instead has a personality need around social connection,
they're going to be spending a lot of their money,

(11:41):
hosting parties or going to fancy events or eating out with,
with their group of friends.
So you'll see like these things that we naturally do um are actually reflecting back to us,
the subconscious needs that we have and once we understand what those are,
if we can design our lives to be in alignment,
so it's how you spend your free time,
how you spend your money,
um the things that trigger you the most.
So if somebody takes away your freedom or somebody violates your emotional connection or you know,

(12:04):
these things that are permanent,
you know,
very personal to you.
Um And where you're naturally most reliable,
which is super interesting.
I've had a lot of,
I have a dear friend.
I think he's a great example of it.
I've been friends with since I was a kid and he is not so organized when it comes to like his career,
but he is so organized when it comes to social connections.
He's always on time for social things.

(12:26):
He's always organizing them for other people.
But you try to get him organized for things around work and he's in LA and he doesn't show up.
And you know,
so,
so you'll see,
we actually have these places where naturally responsible,
reliable.
Um And it's because our subconscious is directing our lives,
you know,
our conscious mind is responsible for roughly 3 to 5% of our decisions.
And our subconscious and unconscious mind collectively are 95 to 97% of our decisions,

(12:48):
feelings,
emotions,
behavior.
So,
so um if we can find,
OK,
where are these things that,
that are really meaningful to me?
So where I naturally spend my money,
naturally read research,
learn things that are most important to me that I can get triggered if they're not happening.
Um How I naturally spend my free time where I'm really organized and reliable without anybody having to tell me if we can ask ourselves those questions and start to see the patterns there we'll start saying,

(13:12):
OK,
it's connection that's important to me or it's freedom or it's,
you know,
we'll find out what those things are.
And then if we can design our lives to be in alignment with that,
what happens is we're actually putting our conscious and subconscious mind into resonance instead of dissonance.
And we'll feel like we get a lot of momentum in our lives quite easily.
Well,
I love a lot of what you said.
One thing I think that is really interesting is thinking about our careers and our lives are not,

(13:37):
not a straight line.
A lot of times we want to imagine,
we sit down with a clean piece of piece of paper and we map out our ideal and the ideal actually isn't in a straight line because there's so much that we learn about ourselves,
these interesting connections we would have never had if the life,
if life turned out exactly in the steps that we think they ought to go.

(14:00):
And so whatever our personalities are and,
and what it is that we,
we desire,
we can find the order or the chaos,
the personal connections or the,
the space to be a little bit more introverted in most places in which we find ourselves.
And so the more we're reflective about the place that we happen to be in our career or the job that we're in and what's resonating with us and what's not the things that we enjoy sometimes we tell ourselves the story that everybody enjoys this or this is drudgery for everyone,

(14:32):
but it's not,
it's for me.
And so listening to those clues and I do think boredom is such a good tell.
It's really telling us something and of course,
our emotions are telling us something if we will stop and listen and try to pay attention to those clues all around us about why something isn't working and why something is working and what I even think working is right?

(14:57):
Uh I love your example of your friend who maybe by some outside standard looks disorganized and maybe objectively is in one area.
But there's many different ways to define success and many different ways to understand uh value.
And the more that we look at,
well,
what is valuable to me or what is important to me instead of this um very impoverished,

(15:22):
understanding,
linear too generalistic understanding of the best path or,
or what it means to be thriving.
It turns out it,
it's of course,
it's much more,
much more varied as many people there are in the world.
I think as many paths there are.
Yeah,
I,
I think to like a good exercise for,

(15:43):
for anybody listening to go through.
I,
we I talk a lot about it like in the concept of individuation which is like understanding yourself separate from society,
um separate from these like sort of conditioned programs that we get like,
oh to be successful,
it means you have to have this kind of car or work this kind of job.
And like you said,
like there's so many different different definitions of what success is.
And I find that people are most successful when they're most individuated and it's success on their own terms.

(16:07):
And so what that really looks like is going through the different areas of life and it's a great exercise.
I highly recommend anybody to do this who hasn't done this before,
which is to sit down.
And like,
if you look at like,
we'll go through the different seven areas for a moment,
you look at career.
So in your career,
like,
are you in a job because it's what your parents wanted or are you in a career?
Because you took the time to consider what lights you up,

(16:28):
what makes you happy,
what makes you feel fulfilled?
Um And if you're not,
what would that look like?
You know,
what personality needs would,
would have to be in alignment,
what morals would you want in a career sort of dynamic?
What types of coworkers or environment do you want to be working within?
Um what types of hours?
What type of flexibility do you want?
Like these are questions that most people go their whole lives and don't even ask themselves.

(16:50):
And then when we look at the next area of life,
so we look at the financial area of life and it's like,
that's an area of life that's impactful.
You know,
sometimes people spend their whole lives living a financial life that's not theirs.
Meaning that they may want to be a,
they may want to be financially free through investing in things that,
you know,
impact,
you know,
their,
their financial future.
But instead they're busy keeping up with the Jones because that's what all their friends and family are doing and that's just the conditioned environment they're in.

(17:16):
And so,
you know,
how do you want to budget your money?
Do you want to save?
Do you want to invest?
What do you want to spend your money on?
Um You know,
being very intentional about these things by asking ourselves the right questions allows us to get to know ourselves in these areas so that we can actually feel truly successful because we can design our lives according to the standards that we want.
Not that the outside world wants for us,

(17:37):
then you can go through,
you can look at career,
financial mental,
so your thoughts,
opinions,
philosophies,
ideas,
things you would like to naturally learn about emotional,
which has a lot to do with emotional regulation,
personal growth.
So we have career,
financial,
mental,
emotional,
spiritual,
same thing.
You know,
sometimes we grew up in spiritual environments where we haven't really like considered what we want,
what we're looking for,
what really helps us thrive there.

(17:58):
Um physical and relationships and so physical can be your physical health,
physical well being,
um,
habits around sleep,
eating,
nutrition,
supplementing those sorts of things.
And then last,
but not least friendships or romantic relationships and family relationships,
like what types of relationships you have,
what are your standards?
What are your non negotiables and the people you surround yourself with?

(18:19):
And,
you know,
when we can really consider these topics for ourselves across the board,
that's how we become successful because we don't become successful on somebody else's terms or what society sort of conditioned us through the media or commercials or television to think that it's successful.
You know,
I had a client once who all they wanted to do was be like an outdoorsman.

(18:40):
And that,
you know,
they were in this job as a lawyer that they hated and what they ended up doing is taking their,
they,
they were still pretty hungry for,
you know,
growth and achievement,
but they ended up taking the understanding of themselves and what they wanted.
Um,
and building a,
a,
an outdoor center where they could teach about fishing and hunting and all these different things after years of being a lawyer,

(19:00):
being miserable and we're more financially successful longer term,
but also just beyond that,
so much happier and,
and so much more in their element.
So there's this part of like,
we have to figure out who we are first in order to get into a space where we're in alignment.
And also we get burnt out when we're living out of alignment with ourselves.
We get frustrated,

(19:21):
we get,
you know,
it takes a lot of energy to fight your subconscious mind every day to show up at work,
you know,
so it can really empower us in a lot of different ways.
So what I do is I talk about and I'm interested in workplaces and how to have healthy workplaces.
And so much of what I see when I am talking with people and when they're caught in a conflict or conflicts at work,

(19:42):
it's very disempowering because something is happening externally to them.
Some somebody or some organization is hurting them and they don't know what to do and they feel like there isn't anything they can do and that conflict has a way or can have a way of in a way holding us hostage to it.

(20:02):
We have to wait for somebody else.
It's something external and I love everything that you've said because it's all about self reflection,
right?
And so it's about self empowerment,
it's about self knowledge.
And that's what I think conflict resolution is,
first and foremost,
it's about personal empowerment about instead of being helpless instead of saying,
OK,
what is going on?

(20:23):
Why is this bothering me?
What is it that I want?
And so it takes uh this imagination about what is it that I want for myself,
what do I want for my future?
And once we start imagining and understanding ourselves and understanding why this person is bothering me or why the situation is bothering me.

(20:44):
Then I think we're able to,
to move forward and find those paths.
But it takes the self reflection that you're talking about and looking at,
I love how you've broken it in,
into all those different areas.
And the more that we do that and the more we know ourselves,
the less power we're going to give to others and the more we're going to be able to solve our problems and collaborate with people to solve our problems and find those ways to move forward in having a fruitful relationships,

(21:12):
fruitful environments and dealing with the conflicts that come conflicts are normal,
something wrong with conflict,
but managing them instead of letting them be unmanaged,
that's the damaging part.
Absolutely.
And,
and I really believe there's a really wonderful roomy quote and he says,
if I'm irritated by every rub,
how will I ever be polished?
And what he's saying is if everything that gets under my skin,

(21:36):
I just get angry about rather than see it as a point of self reflection,
then I'll never grow.
I'll never be polished.
And so,
you know,
when we look at conflict as well,
I,
I love that topic and,
and when we look at conflict,
the thing that I think is so meaningful to recognize is that we have pain and we have suffering.
So pain is something and,
and both are just perfect feedback,

(21:57):
right?
So pain happens whenever we have unmet needs.
So just as an example,
if,
if somebody moves to a new town,
if I were to move to a new town,
not know anybody as somebody who has a big need for connection,
you know,
I may feel the pain of loneliness because I would move to a new town,
wouldn't have anybody around,
you know,
and,
and that pain is actually a,
a beautiful thing.

(22:17):
It's a good feedback mechanism.
It's saying,
hey,
go out and meet people,
go create strategies to adapt so that you can get over this.
So pain is how we survive,
adapt,
evolve and suffering is the story we tell about the pain.
And this is something that people do far too often.
It's because of how we are conditioned and so suffering.
That case might be that I sit down and I say,

(22:39):
oh,
I'm lonely because nobody likes me or I'm lonely and I'll always be alone or,
you know,
I just can't make new friends.
I'm not good enough,
I'm not interesting enough,
you know.
So it's that we start storytelling and it's interesting because when you say conflict and like how we process conflict,
like conflict is always telling us something about ourselves,
even if it's the other person initiating or the other person in the wrong,

(23:00):
it's always mirroring something back to us.
And so what I often get people to do in that case is to look and say,
well,
What story am I telling about myself because of this conflict?
Am I saying that I'm weak?
I am disrespected.
Nobody respects me.
Nobody likes me.
I am excluded.
Like what are these stories that are ours?
And what you'll actually see is generally they're quite repetitive in our lives,

(23:21):
these stories.
Um And then what is the unmet need that this conflict represents?
Do I need clarity?
Do I need certainty?
And a lot of times even if somebody can't give those needs to you,
you can give them to yourself and just in and of doing that,
just of questioning that story,
like let's say you're in AAA conflict with a coworker and you're like,
they disrespect me and you know,

(23:42):
I need them to respect me and apologize and all these,
you know,
give me validation and reassurance and it's like,
well,
ok,
so,
so nobody respects you.
Can you 100% know that that's true or this person's in conflict with you because they disrespect you.
Can you even know that that's true and questioning that can be so valuable because sometimes we realize actually they're like that with everybody.

(24:04):
And actually,
it's a reflection of who they are and not how they feel about me.
And so sometimes we can sort of ease the conflict within ourselves because of that.
And if we can take it a step deeper and be like,
well,
what do I need from them?
Well,
I need an apology which is maybe validation and reassurance of my perspective.
And if they can't give that to me because they're not in a place where they're capable of that,

(24:24):
I can give that to me.
You know what I,
I see,
you know,
where I was coming from,
I see my innocence in this situation.
I see.
You know,
and so we can give the things to ourselves if unhealthy people in our lives aren't capable of giving those to us or get those things from other people in our lives in conscious and constructive ways.
Um,
and I always feel like conflict is just inner conflict more than anything else and in resolving those parts,

(24:46):
they can at least ease our experience and our relationship to other people.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Conflict.
You know,
it's just so interesting when you,
when you hear people talk and you know,
what disrespect is,
is a good one.
Can anybody disrespect you or is it really about them?
I think when somebody is being disrespectful or someone is trying to embarrass somebody else,

(25:07):
like,
actively trying to,
that is about them.
Right?
And then I can be complicit,
I can decide to be embarrassed or I can decide to think,
oh,
I'm sorry for their suffering.
I'm sorry.
You know,
I wish they were more emotionally developed so they could have better lives.
I wish that and,
but I turn it into a wish about how I want the world to be,

(25:27):
which is also a recognition but also why am I taking it personally?
What is it,
what is it about me that is reading the narrative in this way?
And you're absolutely right.
You see these stories over and over and while I do encourage sometimes people to leave toxic environments depending on what's going on.
Right.
But what I really hope for people is that they are able to deal with the conflicts in a way that respects their own values and in a way that shows them and helps develop those skills because the next place you go,

(26:00):
we have conflict,
right?
The grass is always greener wherever in relationships in work environments,
conflict never goes away.
Conflict isn't bad.
It's again how we manage it and we do meet people.
I mean,
everybody has a story,
everybody has wounds and people are at different places in their life of emotional maturity and development.

(26:22):
And I believe for all people on the way nobody is finished,
but we encounter people and ourselves at these different stages.
And so I,
I do think the name of the game is grace and power and being able to move forward and allow people to live and let live.
But then what am I going to do next?
Yeah,

(26:43):
absolutely.
And I like what you said too where it's important to have people.
Like there are cases where somebody is like truly abusive in the workplace or things like that.
And ok,
nonnegotiable set boundaries move on and obviously that's there.
Um But the vast majority of the time,
it's not the case,
right?
The vast majority of the time there's things that are getting pushed on within us that haven't been healed yet.
I,
I don't know how familiar.

(27:03):
I'm sure you probably know a good bit about shadow work,
but it's so interesting too when you look at like the shadow of conflict where often the things that,
that are our stories,
everybody disrespects me or you know,
this person always takes advantage of me.
These stories are the things that trigger us the most in other people are usually things first doing to ourselves.
Um And it's another opportunity that comes from conflict,
right?
It's like,

(27:23):
OK,
what are you so triggered by?
OK,
well,
your boss,
you feel like disrespects you.
Well,
is there anywhere that you're also disrespecting yourself?
And oftentimes it's like,
well,
actually,
I disrespect my own boundaries every day at work or I disrespect my own feelings.
I put myself last all the time or in my family system,
I'm always putting myself on the back burner or OK,
you're triggered because your coworker takes advantage of you.

(27:45):
Well,
where do you take advantage of yourself to please others?
And a lot of the times there's like these powerful golden nuggets and it's not to say that people aren't also doing those things,
but often terms those things that were triggered by are also so personal to us and we're taking them personally because there are things we're already doing to ourselves and often times the ability that people have to affect us really diminishes when we're in a position to stop that pattern within the relationship to ourselves.

(28:11):
And it also empowers us to not allow that pattern,
to continue and to be more assertive in our relationships to others.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think sometimes we make the mistake when we're in a conflict of thinking.
It's either or either it's all about me and my responses and how I react and it's not about the other or it's all about them.
They're doing this and really it's both,

(28:32):
of course,
depending on what,
what is happening.
Right?
What,
what is the behavior and in conflict resolution?
I definitely,
especially at work,
you know,
we're looking at behaviors and not personality.
So what are these,
these behaviors,
this person is doing?
And so once you de escalate yourself and get clear about what exactly is going on and why it is bothering you and what it is you want to have happen,

(28:53):
then you're in a position to talk about those behaviors and sometimes the behaviors go away because you realize,
oh,
that's me.
Right.
That's because of things that happened before or things that happened that my ideal of the world and this person isn't living up to that.
And,
but it clears the way to be able to have adult to adult conversations about what are civility standards or what are basic standards that you are going to now come into a conversation requests instead of this binary,

(29:22):
you must do this one thing,
right?
So getting,
getting past the specific,
you must do this to having a conversation.
And so it really,
I think in work environments or in families,
it's uh restoration and reconciliation is this ability to take ownership of what's you,
but then also to look and see what are things that are unacceptable.

(29:43):
So how can we move forward to mend the relationship so that it is healthy all the way around?
Definitely.
Absolutely.
And I think it's sort of it goes into also this interdependent component where,
you know,
healthy interdependent relationships aren't just blaming everybody else in sort of a codependent way,
right?
Every,
every situation is somebody else's fault,
but it's also not always taking the blame for yourself at the expense of having healthy boundaries or communicating so that you can feel seen and heard.

(30:11):
And so when we look at the sort of interdependent middle ground,
it's ok.
I want to be able to work through my inner stories or my unmet needs in an independent way,
but I also need to be able to then communicate my needs and preferences and my relationships to other people or my boundaries in a healthy way.
And that kind of goes back into it.
It sort of reminded me of what you said a moment ago where it's like the grace.

(30:32):
The grace is the understanding,
the empathy,
the compassion for other people's pain than not taking it personally.
But there's also power which is our personal empowerment that comes through healthy assertiveness,
setting our boundaries,
letting it be known what we're ok with and what we're not ok with.
And I think that allows us to really have both sides of what it takes to have thriving relationships.

(30:53):
Absolutely.
I just finished reading again.
Victor Frankl's uh Man Search for meaning.
And I read it.
So I majored in psychology and philosophy when I was an undergraduate and I read it back then and I just happened to read it over the break.
And so Victor Frankel says,
you know,
his logo therapy and,
and he says that what we need,

(31:14):
what we need to move forward is a grand narrative that we,
we need something outside of ourselves.
We need to find meaning.
It's very forward looking and I was thinking about because right now I play everything to how do we help this?
How does this help with conflict?
But when we think about organizations and aligning expectations,

(31:35):
aligning expectations with the mission of the organization,
our personal missions of what kind of career that we want to have,
I think that is also very helpful to put conflicts that we have with in the organization or with colleagues in a perspective.
So not um I was just talking to somebody else about mistaking the conflict for the relationship.
But the conflict is a part of the relationship and conflicts that they can be very painful as such an opportunity for personal growth and such an opportunity for growth as a team and within the organization.

(32:08):
So,
can you speak a little bit up to that about finding this sort of overarching meaning the meaning outside of yourself to align your life?
Or is that something that you think is,
do you think he's right about that?
Yeah,
I love that.
I mean,
I think that meaning happens honestly when we discover ourselves and what our biggest needs are and then we design our lives accordingly and try to live in alignment with that.

(32:32):
I think that there's,
I mean,
obviously,
from what I understand about his story is there's this,
he sort of had to find this greater purpose just to survive,
right?
And so it's sort of related back to this like need for significance or meaning outside of himself,
which is really powerful.
But I think in terms of conflict,
it's funny,
I always say to people,
conflict is a crisis,
but also an opportunity um where you have this sort of when you think of two people,

(32:56):
right?
And whether this be coworkers or more personal relationships,
friendships,
when you think of two people,
we all have like an individual set of conditioned patterns,
right?
Beliefs that we have about what relationship should look like or how conflict should be expectations for how our coworkers should show up,
um,
an invisible domain,
which is our individual set of boundaries,

(33:16):
whether we're consciously aware of them or not.
And so you have this sort of like invisible reality and,
and part of what happens when there's a conflict of these sort of invisible walls of your reality are,
are causing friction against each other because you have a different set of expectations or beliefs or ideas about how it should go.
And so it feels super uncomfortable,
but it's always showing you to yourself and it's always giving you the opportunity to strengthen those relationships by tearing down some of those invisible walls that exist between you.

(33:44):
But we can only do that when we actually convey to somebody else what our own internal reality is.
And when we learn to ask questions,
right?
It's not just a one way street,
it's not just see me,
hear me,
understand me.
It's that we also have to take the opportunity to,
to understand that about somebody else and to ask them the necessary questions about what their needs are or what their boundaries were that we didn't understand.

(34:05):
And the more information we have about somebody that way,
the easier the the relationship can be.
And I find that one of the biggest,
there's a lot of places that I think first of all,
conflict goes wrong,
which is if you don't know yourself,
it's gonna be tricky.
Um And sort of your own understanding of yourself will be the information necessary to solve for conflict with somebody else because you can't tell somebody what your boundary is.

(34:29):
If you have no idea what it is yourself or what your need is if you don't know to begin with.
But then there's a lot of places communication goes wrong in conflict,
which is so interesting.
Like something I found a lot is that people will communicate so easily in the negative.
You never spend enough time with me.
You never,
you always put your work on me,
you know,
you know,
instead of saying,
hey,
I,
I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now.

(34:51):
Um Could you help me out with my work this time or?
Hey,
I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now.
Unfortunately,
I can't take that on today.
Um I have a lot on my plate as it stands.
So people,
first of all don't communicate in the positive.
They don't say,
hey,
what I need in the positive,
they say what you never do,
they tell you that I needed this and you didn't do it right.
And so that's like a disaster to begin with because people when we communicate in the negative instead of in that sort of positive framing of things,

(35:15):
they,
they become busy defending themselves.
They don't hear what you have to say.
The second thing I find as well with communication is that people will communicate about things too generally because they're not sure of them enough themselves.
So,
what I would see,
at least,
you know,
this applies very much to the workplace.
But a really obvious analogy for this is with couples,
things like I need more support.

(35:36):
And I saw this a lot when I worked because I spend a lot of time working with couples and,
and relationships.
But I would see they would go that week,
go home,
come back and say I told my husband last week I needed more support.
He didn't do anything and he would be like,
what do you mean?
I did the dishes all week and she would go,
oh,
but I,
I needed like validation and reassurance and,

(35:56):
you know,
support looks like something different to two different people because of our different programming.
And that very much applies to the workplace.
If we need support at work or we need motivation or we need,
you know,
boundaries,
you know,
whatever it is that we need,
we have to paint a picture of what that looks like because the programming of it at a subconscious level will be different for two different people.
So communicating in the positive,
communicating very clearly by painting a picture.

(36:19):
And then another thing that I see people do all the time is they forget to see their needs through.
So they may tell their coworker one day,
hey,
you know,
I need some support.
I've been taking on a lot of your work,
you know,
I really need some help this time and the coworker shows up that day and then,
you know,
they go in the next day thinking they're going to support me today because I talked to them yesterday versus that person thought it was a one time thing.

(36:43):
And we have to remember to see our needs through.
I think sometimes people get scared to be vulnerable.
And so they feel like communicating in need at all to somebody is very vulnerable.
Um And rather than thinking,
OK,
I communicated,
once they'll remember forever,
we have to remember that people have these programmed ways of operating.
And so we have to remind them,
we have to convey things to them.
So I sort of,

(37:03):
I used to call these like our stops on the trade.
Like are we communicating in the positive or are we communicating after the fact?
Are we communicating clearly and specifically about what it looks like to meet a need?
Are we seeing our needs through?
And then another thing that I see people do,
it's sort of like the last stop that's relevant is um I see people all the time get into a position where they will say,

(37:24):
oh,
you took on some of my work,
but you did this wrong,
right?
You,
you,
you helped but you did all these sections wrong.
What were you thinking?
That person will never help you again?
Right.
So we have to be positively reinforcing and validating to people and we can still convey when something was incorrect.
Hey,
I really appreciate all of your help today.
It really saved me.
I noticed that these parts we have to work on a little bit,

(37:45):
but thank you for showing up for me today,
right?
Like we can still give somebody feedback,
but we can do it in an appreciative way.
So it positively reinforces the behavior.
So anyway,
there's a lot of really interesting parts of conflict for how,
how,
when we don't know what we need or want and how,
when we don't know how to communicate,
things can really go awry.
But if we get those parts right in our working relationships,

(38:05):
our personal relationships,
we can see a lot of healthy momentum.
Absolutely.
And as you were talking,
I was thinking about one thing that I think sometimes people are difficult,
it's difficult for them to do is once they actually say,
hey,
this is what I need help with then letting go.
So certainly it's uh you know,
please do the dishwasher.
No,
don't do it like that.

(38:26):
But it's,
I need help and let's say,
let's suppose they need,
they are specific,
I need help delivering the dishwasher and then somebody goes to do it and they say no,
no,
no,
I've got it like I want everyone to pick up their plates,
but then I still go around to pick up the plates,
not even giving people an opportunity.
So I really love.
One thing that has been layered in what you've been talking about is the reciprocal nature of working with others that it's not just about me,

(38:53):
it's not just about you or them,
but in order to have a healthy environment,
it really does take this give and take self knowledge,
but also then being able to talk to others.
And how do I engage healthily with the people around me?
One thing that I,
I see a lot like on tiktok or,
you know,

(39:13):
or people are,
I think they're just,
you know,
they're angry at work or angry at something or dissatisfied.
And a lot of the behavior is very selfish or adolescent in the sense that it's me versus my work environment.
Instead of seeing that in order to have a healthy work environment,
whatever it is,
if it's at mcdonald's or you are in the C suite,

(39:36):
it's how do I work with the people around me because it's all about people,
right?
How do I invest in them and invest in myself so that I'm not dreading coming to work at least because of the relationship aspect.
And as we know so many times if maybe people don't like the work,
but the environment itself is healthy,

(39:59):
it makes the work itself easier to take or easier to do.
And I am against talking about the work environment as a family.
I don't think that's the right way to go,
but it's not family or me against the world.
You know,
how can we do what you've been talking about so that we really do articulate very specifically because you can't solve Tim.

(40:24):
You're a bad worker.
Oh,
what the heck does that mean?
Right.
Specifically,
what are the things that you want me to work on specifically?
And then the feedback from that,
I think in a way retraining our individual,
individualistic society to see that I must work on me.
I must take responsibility,
but I also must work on the community aspects.

(40:45):
Absolutely.
I think there's some interesting things that happen.
So I think like,
for sure,
the communication part can go awry if we don't know how to communicate properly.
I do think that when we look at like the idea of individuality,
it should be more like individuation,
like understanding ourselves so that we can better relate with other people and in a sort of an interdependent way.
Um But I think that's something that happens is when we don't understand ourselves,

(41:07):
we do a lot of like subconscious things.
So we do a lot of things we're not consciously aware that we're doing.
And one of the biggest ones when working around others is we look at people as we are rather than understanding them as they are.
And you know,
just a really easy example of this is like,
you know,
let's say we have somebody who is really introverted in the workplace.
OK?
And then somebody who's really extroverted.

(41:29):
I've seen a lot over the years people come and be like,
my coworker is always so cold to me.
They're always withdrawing and we can take people's personalities so personally because we're seeing them as like,
oh,
if they liked me,
they would be full of energy around me.
Well,
maybe it's not about that,
maybe there's more to that.
So I think,
like,
understanding ourselves is so important,
but also for sure,

(41:50):
like working to,
if we're getting feedback,
things like that,
get specific,
communicate about needs,
of course.
Um But I think that this this other layer is like when we're having trouble working with people in a relationship in the workplace over and over again or if it's a pattern in our lives,
well,
it's probably giving us feedback about ourselves.
What is that feedback?
You know,
and,
and can we not just learn to understand ourselves better but also understand other people better,

(42:14):
right?
Not personalize their behavior by seeing them as they are not as we are.
And it's sort of the difference between sympathy and empathy,
you know,
sympathy would be,
oh,
people are ignoring you in the environment today.
You must feel so sad because I would feel so sad.
Empathy is like,
oh you're withdrawing from people and that's why you're not connecting with people because maybe you're needing a little bit of time alone to recharge today.

(42:35):
I noticed that that's something that you tend to need more in the workplace is that independence and autonomy and alone time to focus.
So when we can start to try to notice other people and their patterns of behavior and observe them differently.
Um We're empowered to work with them better.
We're empowered to persuade people in a healthier way as well because we can touch on things that are important and meaningful to them instead of just projecting what's important or meaningful to us,

(43:00):
which is very interesting.
But I think that's really huge.
And just to go back to something you said earlier that I thought was so interesting as you said,
when we communicate the need at the dinner table,
we can't just go pick up everybody's place after saying that we,
you know,
need everybody else to take a turn.
We have a big guilt around receiving,
you know,
and,
and,
and sometimes that can show up in,
in a huge way at work and a huge way in conflict because if we're somebody who knows that we're working those 60 hour work weeks pouring in there knows that we deserve a raise,

(43:29):
but we don't believe that we're worthy of asking or we're scared to receive and really like take up space,
then that guilt around receiving will cause us to try to overcompensate not receive and then we'll resent.
Um And then that just becomes a root cause of,
of pain and suffering in the workplace and a root cause of conflict.
So sometimes too,

(43:49):
if we're seeing that,
you know,
we're asking for things,
but then we're blocking ourselves from receiving,
we actually have to take a look and be like.
Is that something I have to practice?
Is that I have to practice actively receiving from people or if I do ask for the plates to be cleared,
I know that I asked and now I have to sit and if I'm scared and it's uncomfortable,
I have to actually rewire that a little bit by sitting down,

(44:09):
watching everybody pick up the plates and practicing,
getting comfortable in that initial discomfort until I've done some exposure work to actually create a new relationship to it.
So,
it's interesting.
I,
I thought that was a really powerful you sort of touched on in passing,
but we have to practice receiving and then of course,
um,
when it comes to conflict also being able to see where people are coming from a little bit better.
Absolutely.

(44:30):
So,
when you think about your career and the different experiences that you've had,
can you share with us a time that you were in conflict with a person or an organization and,
and how you dealt with that?
Yeah.
So I spent a lot of time first in school,
um,
and then in,
you know,
bartending and that had a conflict because sometimes on a slow day I would feel bored or out of alignment for sure.

(44:52):
Um,
I liked,
it was when it was busy.
So when that would rarely happen,
that was,
uh,
frustrating at times.
But I wouldn't necessarily say I had a whole bunch of conflicts there.
I sort of just showed up and worked and left.
I would say,
I guess one of my conflicts is I,
I,
before doing what I do now for the last five years,
um,
I worked in client practice so I worked with clients for the better part of 10 years.

(45:16):
And um and I saw a lot of clients,
I would see 40 people a week or so and very busy.
And my first couple of years,
the big thing that stands out is I ran my own practice.
So I started really young.
I started when I was out of school,
I started by just giving free workshops to people.
Just I loved talking about this stuff.
And I didn't expect to start a client practice.

(45:36):
I thought I would go work in an organization first.
I didn't think I would go out on my own right away.
Um But it happened that way.
And so I learned a lot of things,
the hard way that otherwise you would get some training around a little bit more.
One of the first things was I learned about boundaries,
the hard way.
So I would book my client sessions for my cell phone.
I would book them texts,
you know,
want to cancel,

(45:57):
send texts here.
It took me the first year and a half before getting a secretary in the office space that I rented and I would have people text me late at night.
This happened with my wife.
This happened at work and I loved what I did so much and I kept having this.
This is a really interesting lesson for me.

(46:17):
I kept because I had done so much self work and so much like inner healing.
I had this really funny belief that it was like,
well,
I've healed so much pain.
These people are in more pain.
So who cares if it's a boundary violation?
They're suffering,
they're suffering,
they're suffering more.
So my boundary violation,
pain versus their pain are incomparable.

(46:37):
So I should be there for them.
And that was me at a very young age starting out not having the wisdom yet in that area to understand that that's also not sustainable,
that is not a long term,
you know,
situation that is that,
that can work.
Um And so I,
I really like found myself in that first year.
So kind of teetering on the edge of burnout thinking I had to like get back to all these messages or make space or time or,

(47:01):
you know,
and,
and my work environment was really infiltrating my home environment.
And so um a big lesson that I took away from that was that just because somebody is in more pain doesn't mean that your experience is irrelevant and you know,
really learning to have a healthy domain to actually set up boundaries and to communicate those things ahead of time is absolutely necessary.
And that even if you feel responsible for somebody's experience,

(47:24):
even though first of all,
I'm not the only one responsible,
it's a sort of core responsibility that's taking place.
It would help me work better with people to have really strong boundaries in a really healthy way than to go and feeling frustrated that you texted me at 11 pm yesterday.
What were you thinking?
Um because that was going to bleed into the way I worked with people in the first place.
So,
so I think I really,

(47:45):
you know,
for the first three or four months,
I just really didn't even notice that it was a boundary violation or I did,
but I like really justified it.
And then I kind of reached this like empathy burnout space and then I had to really reassess my boundaries and then start really working on them.
And the hardest part was actually telling people who were used to that,
that that was no longer acceptable or appropriate.
But I realized those were conversations I had to have and did that work.

(48:08):
And then really came out with the lesson that if everybody just takes on each other's pain because somebody thinks somebody else is suffering more,
the person who's there to be,
the support system is depleted and it's not a sustainable situation.
So we have to have those boundaries so that we can get from a full cop.
And that was a,
a big lesson for me,
for sure.
Yeah,

(48:28):
I mean,
that is,
that is a,
that is a hard one and many of us have a very hard time doing that and sort of baptism by fire that eventually you have to figure it out or you burn out,
you can't do it anymore.
It,
as you said,
unsustainable,
definitely.
So conversely,
can you tell us about the best work environment you've ever experienced?

(48:48):
And what was so good about it for you?
OK.
Well,
I feel like I'm gonna be,
I feel like I'm tooting my own horn here.
But so I feel a little bit shy saying this,
but so I now own a business.
It's called the Personal Development School.
And um so,
so I get to do the work.
I love,
I do webinars throughout the week for our students and create the content and courses.

(49:08):
And we have about 30 in house employees that work with us.
So people who take care of a lot of the,
the students and social events and the project,
the like project managers,
product managers,
you know,
we have like a,
a full,
it's like a small company and,
and um I have learned a lot um from working with people and it's,
I think one of the most amazing things to work with people,

(49:30):
one on one for a long time first because people always show you to yourself.
You know,
it's like rapid learning.
You're like,
oh,
they're going through this?
Oh,
my gosh.
I kind of do that too.
And you see all these parts of yourself all the time.
So I got to grow a tremendous amount in a very short period of time as a person through doing that great blessing.
And it gave me the wisdom I needed by the time I started my own company and hired people on rather than just working as sort of like a self employed person instead like a business owner to try to set up a really good work environment.

(49:57):
So I feel like we have an amazing work environment because we really facilitate a lot of open communication.
We talk about how conflict is an opportunity for understanding each other better.
We really work through a lot of like any challenges proactively,
we make sure that people feel heard.
We really go out of our way to make sure that people feel validated and reassured in their work environment.

(50:19):
And there's a lot of we do like ongoing training.
We do,
you know a whole bunch of things to support people and try to see what people need as them,
not as we think they should be or as we are.
So I think there's a lot of principles and things I got to learn first working in client practice to then contribute into this work environment that have made a really,
really positive impact and like,
it's been amazing.
So we've been in there for about four or five years and,

(50:42):
um,
you know,
really don't see any turnover except for if somebody,
you know,
there was one person who,
like,
left the country,
you know,
like there's little things like that and really extraneous circumstances,
but,
like,
we really haven't seen much turnover.
We really got knock on wood.
Um,
haven't seen much like conflict that's really serious because I think we're always kind of ahead of it.

(51:03):
Um And I'm sure that would change from periods of time,
but we hire really intentionally,
we really know what we're looking for in terms of a culture fit.
So I think there's a lot of learnings that we've got to bring in there um to make it a good fit.
So morale is really good.
We pay people well.
Yeah.
So there's,
I feel good about that and I,
I would say um it's been a huge blessing to be able to work in a space like that with people.

(51:26):
And I'm extremely grateful for that and it's not just like me,
it's,
it's like all the people we work with,
right?
If everybody shows up and,
and supports that and supports each other and does that with one another.
So I more get to sit back and be an observer of like all these amazing people we have and the amazing way that they get to work together.
So Yeah,
that is amazing.
Congratulations because it takes intentionality to have a good healthy work environment and your environment sounds incredibly intentional.

(51:54):
And it just another example of things that we pick up along the way that you didn't realize,
probably when you were doing your client based practice that all of these wonderful skills are going to translate into just the organizational component of how you treat employees.
That's so much different than doing the work that structure.
And I love what you said about getting ahead of conflict.

(52:17):
And that's what I really think is the key is that once you have,
let's suppose you have an organization that has some long standing conflict,
the the beauty of the future is that once you really deal with it and you put good structures in place and ongoing training because it isn't just one thing and you're done with it,
right?
And you,
you create that environment,

(52:37):
the kinds of conflict you you're gonna have are going to be able to be managed.
And so they're not these big icky blow up things because you are on top of it and you are empowering and thinking and working through and that's just so wonderful.
It's,
it's so great to hear.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Hopefully it stays that way,
but it's been really smooth for,

(52:59):
for quite a long time.
So yeah,
very grateful about that.
That is wonderful.
So as you look into the future of war,
what do you think needs to happen?
So that organizations have what you have this psychological safety where people can speak up the turnover that is low because people really like the environment and they feel included belonging and it's a good place to work,

(53:23):
what needs to happen so that more organizations bring that about in the future,
what needs to happen?
Yeah,
it's a great question.
I mean,
there's probably so many answers,
but I think the first thing is so,
so I didn't go to school for organizational psychology.
I went to school for psychology,
but not organizational psychology.
And I had a client who was a client of mine in my practice for,

(53:47):
for quite a long time,
we worked together for a couple of years and she had a master's degree in organizational psychology.
And I remember she said something to me and it really stood out to me.
She said people at the top will always sort of impact the rest of these organizations.
There's many studies that basically represent that your c level executives are essentially going to their personality patterns,
their issues,

(54:07):
their challenges are really going to filter out and those are going to be the same types of people.
You hire the same types of conflicts you see within the organization.
And it makes sense for a number of different reasons.
But even if just one of those reasons is as simple as what I experienced,
which is in a start up,
you know,
we had like four or five people to start off with,
but we started with really good communication.
So what happens is you hire more and more people on that precedent has already been set.

(54:32):
So if there is a challenge or there is a problem,
we already know how to work through that stuff and we practiced it.
And so when new employees get hired on,
because we practice that those employees have those skills to be able to do that with their teams that they're building out.
And so our company is a small company with 30 or so people.
But you know,
I think that would still apply even in a huge company,

(54:54):
right?
Because you'd have team leads who now understand how to work through communication,
how to make sure that their employees feel seen,
heard,
validated,
but also how to set empowering and healthy boundaries and communicate assertively and in a healthy.
So I think learning proper communication skills is absolutely huge.
Um I think that ongoing empathy has to be a big part,

(55:16):
like actually being able to empathize with each other as human beings.
Like not just seeing this as,
oh you work here and so that's it,
figure it out,
like actually being able to empathize and,
and have some flexibility sometimes if somebody's going through a hard time,
cool,
let's,
we have a team,
they're there to help you,
you know,
get the support you need for that period of time and you'll be held to a certain standard when this hard time is resolved,

(55:37):
to also be able to be there for other people to lean on.
You should they need to.
But to really facilitate like that expectation of teamwork,
you know,
it's not just you all get lumped in together,
working together,
but we can actually lean on each other,
pivot compromise,
communicate,
share and,
and I think having vulnerability be encouraged in a healthy way is really big for that reason.
I think ongoing training is really important that people feel empowered.

(55:59):
I think having a growth plan for people is important because we have a basic need for growth.
And I think that,
you know,
accountability is a really big thing.
I think that sometimes we,
it's,
it's funny because we have a lot of like this mutually exclusive way of thinking about things in society right now where it's like either all of your needs should be met by your career and everybody should be bending over backwards.

(56:22):
And if somebody gives you a hard time,
they're a demon,
you know,
or we have this,
it should be nose to the grindstone work 80 hour weeks,
kill yourself in the process,
you know,
and it's like,
no,
you actually want this healthy middle ground where like you should share it work.
If you're going through a hard time,
you should get support,
you should have people who can empathize with that.
And you also have to take accountability for yourself as an adult.

(56:45):
So if you're not doing something right?
Or you're not communicating,
you're not doing your job,
you should be held to a high standard.
So I think there needs to be like the best of both worlds there that happens a lot rather than this like extreme of either side which we see so often nowadays.
And yeah,
I guess I would just say those major things really good communication hiring really effectively matters a lot.

(57:05):
Like really taking the time to consider like what again,
it's kind of like the individual work.
Like what are you looking for in a company?
What do you want to build what you want to create?
What types of personalities will comprise of that?
We frequently choose slightly less qualified people that are a better culture fit that we know will work hard rather than the person who's got more experience.

(57:28):
But you're not sure if they're a culture fit,
you're not sure if they're gonna really rise to the occasion.
Um So I think intentional hiring really matters.
I could probably go on and on about this.
But I if I had to say a few key things that those would be the big ones that is wonderful.
But ta thank you so much for being on Conflict Managed.
I just this hour just flew by.
I really appreciate your time and insights.

(57:48):
Thank you so much.
It was so nice to speak with you and really,
really enjoyed this.
Thais thank you so much for being on Conflict
Managed. What a fun and interesting conversation.
I learned so much and I look forward to thinking more about the subconscious mind.
Something that I haven't given too much of a thought about because I am a bit of an existentialist at heart. Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,

(58:14):
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictRestoration.com.
If you haven't had a chance to check out my new book,

How To Be Unprofessional at Work (58:22):
Tips to Ensure Failure,
It's a look at 80 things of what not to do and start the conversation about the positive what to do instead and how do we have a healthy work environment.
Come back next Tuesday,
we have new episodes every Tuesday.
Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot. And remember,
conflict is normal and to be expected.

(58:44):
So let's deal with it. Until next time.
Take care.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 90: Mindful Work: Navigating Success, Relationships, and Self-Discovery

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

All Episodes

Ep 90: Mindful Work: Navigating Success, Relationships, and Self-Discovery

Dateline NBC