February 27, 2024 • 47 mins
🎙️ This week on Conflict Managed I'm delighted to host executive and leadership coach, Teresa Vozza.
Highlights from the show:
🌟 Eradicating executive stress and overwhelm
🌱 The challenge of emotional labor in HR
🍟 Teresa shares her early lessons in customer service and conflict de-escalation.
🚀 Importance of entry-level jobs in developing foundational skills.
📚 The power of language and story.
🌐 Discusses the practical applications of sociology and English in corporate and personal settings.
📖 The value of reading and literature in developing empathy and understanding diverse perspectives.
Teresa Vozza is an award-winning leadership expert, a keynote speaker, writer, and the former Chief Human Resources Officer for a Fortune 500 company. She is on a mission to help executive professionals eradicate burnout and transform their leadership.
Teresa is a Certified Personal and Business Coach, a member of International Coach Federation, a Certified Change Leader, a HeartMath Certified Trainer, and is F1 Certified in the Association of Neurolinguistics Professionals.
Teresa’s thought leadership can be found in many top 2% podcasts such as Wickedly Smart Women and Leaders of Transformation, along with leading magazines like Fast Company, Collective World and Women of Influence. She is also a wife to Greg, and mother to two fabulous kids, Connor, and Isabel.
You can find Teresa online: Website: https://www.teresavozza.ca/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-vozza-chrl-cca/
Conflict Managed is hosted by Merry Brown and produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services (3pconflictrestoration.com).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
All right,
this is all right.
I got it.
I do wraps now.
Get a sound side uptight asking questions.
(00:25):
Welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
Today,
I'm Conflict Managed.
We are joined by Teresa Vozza.
Teresa is an award winning leadership expert,
a keynote speaker writer,
and the former chief human resource officer for a Fortune 500 company.
She's on a mission to help executive professionals eradicate burnout and transform their leadership.
Teresa is a certified personal and business coach and member of the International coach Federation,
(00:50):
a certified change leader,
a HeartMath certified trainer and is F one certified in the Association of Neurolinguistics Professionals.
Teresa's thought leadership can be found in many top podcasts such as Wickedly Smart Women and Leaders of transformation along with leading magazines like fast company collective World and women of influence.
(01:11):
Good Morning Teresa and Welcome to Conflict Managed.
Good Morning Merry.
Nice to be here.
So lovely to have you and I'm so interested in learning all about your career and your coaching and your background in.
Hr So let's go ahead and begin and will you tell us about the first job you ever had as a young person.
Yeah,
(01:32):
the very first job was I worked at mcdonald's.
I was 14.
I believe that was the age back then.
And my brother,
my older brother,
that was his first job.
And so he,
when he went there and he was,
he became a manager and then,
um we're three years apart.
And so when it came to be my age,
(01:54):
my brother scheduled an interview for me to meet with the manager at mcdonald's.
And I would say that was one of the best jobs I've ever had.
To be honest.
I really learned a lot about uh customer service and I learned a lot about conflict and how to deescalates,
uh very upset customers.
And so that was my first job and I think of it very fondly.
(02:17):
That's wonderful.
You know,
a lot of times when we think about these entry level jobs,
you're working fast food and sometimes we sort of hand wave away those experiences and yet,
oh my goodness,
you know,
dealing with people and their hunger,
dealing with to the general public and in such a quick,
fast paced environment,
there's actually a lot that goes in to those first jobs and we just plop young people right in and expect it all to run smoothly and they have to deal with a lot.
(02:48):
Yeah,
they do.
And,
and I think that's why this job stands out so much to me is because I remember at the time mcdonald's really spending a lot of time upfront in how to manage escalation.
And they talked a lot even at a very young age about the impact of listening and of looking at them in the eye and acknowledging their pain points and looking for ways to solve the problem without getting emotionally escalated ourselves.
(03:21):
And so for a young girl at age 14 to have learned that valuable skill in fast food in a job that there's a lot of people coming at you all the time I think was an invaluable starting point for me.
Wow.
What a gift.
Yeah,
especially at,
at a young age like that.
(03:41):
I think that all the different places that I've worked in,
nobody has ever told me how to deal with customers with clients.
It's either assumed that,
you know,
or people are too busy to really do that training.
And yet we know that if you do that upfront,
you save so much time and you just make it a better experience for the employee and the customer and clients.
(04:03):
Exactly.
I couldn't agree more.
And then the faster you solve the problem,
the faster you calm down and the other person calms down and it just,
it's such a difference maker in your entire day.
Yeah.
And that you had that experience at 14.
That's,
that's wonderful.
Yeah,
that was,
that was quite something I do recall there being many days where I thought,
(04:24):
wow,
this is really hard.
But I also recall the many instances in which I felt.
Wow.
I really handled that well.
And that's a great feeling to have as a teenager.
Yeah.
What?
That's a wonderful win.
You know,
all those little putting those conflict resolution de escalation tactics in place and actually seeing it work is very encouraging to continue to do that.
(04:46):
I'm sure you also took those skills into your private life as well.
Oh,
absolutely.
And,
and I remember because of that training,
it followed me everywhere.
It was something that I never forgot.
That's why even when you asked me the question,
instantly,
I go to mcdonald's because I recall using those skills when I got my first job,
(05:08):
post university and post college,
I recall using those skills even in my first friend fight and knowing enough to know that,
you know,
I needed to listen first and that I didn't need to jump in and,
and,
oh my goodness,
not interrupting things like that,
which are,
you know,
I have two kids,
10 and 12 and I try to instill those values in them too.
(05:31):
The importance of listening first before reacting and then from that place,
choosing how to respond.
So these are skills that when socialize,
socialize from a very young age,
they tend to stick with you.
Yeah,
absolutely.
That's one reason that I really like doing workplace conflict resolution because when you're at work,
(05:54):
you have in a way a captive audience you,
there are these standards of civility that hopefully are in place or they are being put in place and the standard of not only how to behave but how to,
how to deal with difficult emotions,
different difficult situations.
And if you train people at work as this is how you ought to,
this is what we expect you to do and we're empowering you to do it.
(06:16):
It does have this ripple effect through our life.
And so,
you know,
in our private life,
we can say,
you can't tell me what to do.
But in a work environment,
we can say this is what this is,
these are our standards,
standards and this is how we expect you to behave and we will give you resources to do it and then you get to practice and then it has this,
this ripple effect into the,
to the rest of our,
(06:37):
the rest of our lives.
Yeah.
And you know,
one other thing too,
Mary that comes to my mind is I'm remembering as you speak that even throughout that training both in as my first part time job.
But then throughout life,
I was also shown how to assert a boundary as well and to know where the line is and to know at what point,
(07:01):
you know,
for example,
using the mcdonald's example,
when to call the manager and knowing when to say,
I hear you're really upset,
I'm gonna need to walk away now or this is not acceptable and let's resume in an in at a later time,
it would look a bit different at mcdonald's,
of course.
But from that very early training,
(07:22):
I learned the invaluable lesson of knowing when is the right time to discern between ending the conversation,
moving it offline in some cases,
or like asking the customer to move over to the side to have a conversation.
So it's not right in front of everyone at the restaurant and knowing that my intrinsic value as an employee was also not to be squashed.
(07:48):
And I remember mcdonald's doing a really good job of saying when,
if,
when and if you feel threatened,
know that when it's time to walk away and to call a manager and we will intervene so that second level of conflict resolution would kick in.
And so that was really beneficial again to learn and be given an example of at a young age and then also be able to see how that translates later in life.
(08:16):
Yes.
And I imagine just within any sort of a service job,
you get opportunities to practice it,
right.
So it's one thing to be given a training and then maybe it doesn't come up that much.
But in fast food,
you're going to have conflict,
you're going to have orders that go awry,
you're going to have a variety of things that happen.
And so it's a skill that gets put into place and it's expected of you right away.
(08:40):
Yeah,
absolutely.
I couldn't have said it better myself and,
and I think also what it,
what it's also allowed for me and what I like to impart with others is a sense of empathy because now when I'm on the other line with someone,
whether it is,
you know,
the phone company or whether it is the neighbor or the mailman or anyone that we come into contact with that does something that we may consider to be objectionable or inappropriate or just simply incorrect.
(09:11):
There's a certain level of empathy that kicks in to understand the other side.
And I think that's also a really great by-product of receiving early skills and conflict resolution is understanding that there's a human on the other side of the counter or on the other side of the debate.
(09:34):
And so how to demonstrate empathy while still disagreeing if,
if need be in a really professional and poised way.
Wow.
I didn't think we'd be talking about mcdonald's this much,
but that is fantastic.
So,
what did you end up majoring in,
in college?
Yeah.
(09:54):
So I ended up taking Sociology and English and not surprisingly,
I loved both of those topics because sociology is a study of behavior and the study of groups and that lended itself really well to my interests in human behavior,
how groups work.
Um What are the,
(10:14):
what's the interaction model?
And so that led me to starting my career in,
in human resources quite some years ago.
And English,
you know,
what's interesting about English is that I was able to understand the role of character and the role of language and the role of words and how that plays a part in life and in relationships and in careers.
(10:39):
And I loved understanding the different perspectives that people have.
And I think a study of literature and a study of books really lends itself to that to an understanding of a different human experience.
And those two things follow me right up until present day,
I'm a huge reader.
Um I'm an executive coach now and a speaker and,
(11:02):
and writer and those are the types of things that really lend itself to sharing out uh perspective.
And I think language and,
and books really allow for that.
And the sociology piece is,
is so much fun because you really do get to understand the different dynamics at work and the different perspectives that are out there which I get for organizations lends itself really well to change management and to some of those other key,
(11:33):
key skills that we're needing more than ever now in a more complex world.
You know,
I think of those two disciplines,
uh English and um sociology as being very practical,
I think.
Um sometimes when uh parents hear that their child is majoring in something like,
like English literature or you're like,
oh,
no,
(11:53):
how are you going to be employed?
Don't you want to go into a stem field.
You know,
let's get something more concrete in the sciences,
math and sciences.
And,
um I think it's to misunderstand actually what's going on at work and the value of being able to communicate how,
how do I get out of my own lived experience because I only have the geographical location,
(12:14):
the experiences.
But there's something about reading where you can try to,
to,
um,
you know,
if we want to develop empathy and understanding and awareness that the world is multifaceted and there's so many legitimate,
different ways to embody and to live a life and to be able to,
to see different um different ways and to put your toe in there and,
(12:37):
and you get these different experiences and we are in this,
you know,
global environment,
the world is flat.
How do I,
how do I really communicate with somebody who is different,
either from a different,
a different generation,
a different culture,
different religious background and reading really lends itself to a growing of the imagination.
(12:59):
And the larger your imagination is,
you know,
curiosity is so important for change management,
for self development.
And then of course,
sociology,
the study of groups.
And I do think that some of these disciplines at the university get a bad rap as being not practical.
And I think they're extremely practical.
I,
I teach philosophy and um I,
(13:21):
I find it really practical because it's about what does it mean to live a good life and how do I know?
And how should I behave?
Yeah.
I,
I agree with you.
And I'm so glad you,
you said that because I recall it being in university and taking sociology and there was a certain,
almost stigma around that,
(13:43):
that subject and even also of around English and the,
the predominant attitude was,
well,
what are you going to do with that?
And the other,
you know,
I remember thought that occurred back then was also,
you know,
sociologist,
for those,
those who can't pass psychology.
So there was already,
there were like these hierarchies of like smartness and I remember feeling so defeated by the whole thing.
(14:09):
And now I,
in hindsight,
I kind of,
I wouldn't say laugh but I can appreciate with humor,
the folly of my thinking that somehow I was not smart enough to be in the big leagues with psychology and,
and science because I think these two subjects subject matters really lent itself well,
(14:32):
to me as a corporate executive,
I think it led itself really well for me as it relates to the writing and the thought leadership that I,
that I position.
And I think also it allows me to paint a picture for people.
So it's not just about words on a page or throwing up a powerpoint,
(14:53):
I can share a story or an analogy or I can paint a picture and I think those skills would not have been as strong if I wasn't such a lover of words and was such a lover of books.
Because I think it's in that discipline that I really learned the beauty of how words can shape a,
(15:16):
you know,
a feeling and experience and a perspective.
And I know that when I share from that place,
whether it's on a stage to hundreds or in a 1 to 1 setting,
the impact that it has on the other person is much more profound.
So scoff as they may,
(15:40):
I think it lends itself very well.
Uh in my case,
and I'm sure in many,
many others as well.
Oh,
I just so agree.
I think sometimes we fool ourselves as to what it means to be a human person and how,
and how we as people grow and learn and develop and how we try on different ideas and story so powerful because we aren't just these detached little computers making computations.
(16:06):
We are these embodied creatures living out our story and interacting with others.
And in so far as we want to move forward,
it helps us to,
to get that foothold.
Oh,
this is what she's talking about.
This is what he means in this,
this story form.
And as you said,
it just,
it grabs you in and gets your attention because it's a human connection.
(16:26):
Yeah.
Yeah,
I love everything that you said and I couldn't agree more and,
and to be fully transparent,
I think much of that muscle was practiced and grown.
I don't necessarily think that it was something that I was just born with.
Although I was a reader from a very young age and I had a wild imagination from a very young age.
But I think that,
(16:48):
you know,
the skill of story and the skill of painting a picture or even in my case with,
with my clients,
I love to share examples for example.
And that is when I know that they've really got it.
If I just explain a theory or explain a fact,
(17:09):
what I get is a lot of head nodding,
but I'm not seeing the,
the,
the transformation.
And I,
and I'm a big fan of the word embodied.
I did a lot of work with somatic experiencing and being,
you know,
in the body as as I speak and as I relate and as I communicate.
And so in that training,
I really look for the same in others,
(17:31):
not just them understanding a concept,
but them being moved by something,
them being stirred,
them being able to connect the dots in their own personal story.
And I think that's what makes for exceptional leaders.
It's those people that walk into a room and you just know that they have a presence that is fully online with you,
(17:59):
not apart from you.
And you know,
we hear often walk the talk for me,
walk,
the talk is no,
is no different than simply saying they are embodied their actions and their words are congruent.
And so I think it's such an important concept to be able to relate to other people in more than one way of communicating.
(18:21):
Yeah,
absolutely.
I have some leaders have popped into my mind of how you feel in their presence where they just walk into the coffee shop and you're like,
oh,
you know,
and you see how they are and I've been with leaders who you feel that way in their presence.
But then when you're out of their presence,
maybe they don't follow through.
Uh And so,
like you said,
there's a variety of ways to communicate.
It's one thing in sort of the detached communication that you might have just,
(18:45):
that's in the everyday business.
But then when you see them in person,
that continuity of character,
it's not one or the other.
It's that both and all right,
excellent leadership is the person who's able to,
to marry those two.
Yeah,
I,
I agree with you and no better way to see that than when conflict arises.
You know,
staying on topic with,
(19:06):
with what you do.
But it's so true.
It's like when,
when push comes to shove and you're under pressure and you're under stress,
that is really the time to,
to,
to have your character be demonstrated and it's not to say that we're perfect people.
I mean,
I lose my cool too and I get impatient and I become irritable and it's not to dehumanize us or to say that we,
(19:34):
we're not allowed to have those types of reactions.
But it's really about the consistency when I see a leader consistently respond to pressure in roughly the same way.
And I look for things like curiosity and calmness and centeredness and being able to see all sides and perspective,
(19:56):
taking and deep listening.
And if I see that if we're gonna use the 8020 rule,
80% of the time and give them grace for that 20% where they might just,
you know,
have um said something out of turn,
then I know that we're dealing with someone who is real and sincere and,
(20:17):
and genuine.
That's such a good point because sometimes we deify our leaders and we expect them to be,
you know,
you're at the top.
That means you should all,
you must always be at the top of your game and it's just unrealistic expectation.
But,
you know,
allowing them to be human,
allowing them to make mistakes just like they allow us to make mistakes,
right?
This,
(20:37):
you know,
this is what we really want.
So what after college did you go right into?
Hr actually,
I,
for two years,
I worked with kids with disabilities.
And so I spent some time at the time,
I thought I was going to go into social work.
I knew that I had uh an empathetic bent and that I really loved the service profession.
(21:00):
I grew up with a cousin of mine who was on the autism spectrum and really learned how to understand people who are neuro diverse.
So I had an interest,
I did that for a couple of years and I decided at that point in time that the next part of my story was going to be gaining more education.
(21:21):
I loved working with kids with disabilities.
It is a high burnout profession.
It's very,
very tough and I'll be the first to acknowledge that I wanted some difference.
I didn't want solely that role.
I needed something else to really spur my,
you know,
academic interests.
So I went back to school and did a hr postgrad and pretty quickly out of the gate,
(21:43):
I was hired as an intern which later turned into a job.
And then 22 years later,
I was,
I was in hr for a good long time before I decided to start my own business in 2019.
So when you look at the hr profession,
what do you think right now hr is getting right?
(22:04):
And what are some,
some areas in which you think they need to,
to develop or change?
Course?
Yeah,
I spend a lot of time thinking about this because a lot of my clients are hr leaders and I think what they're getting right is that they are really positioning themselves to be more strategic.
(22:26):
They are no longer settling for the administrative side of hr,
and I think,
I think we've fallen prey to that reputation for far too long.
And I think once the pandemic hit and we were thrown and,
or catapulted or,
um,
into leading in an entirely different way.
(22:48):
That was our day.
It was our day and it wasn't our day because there was a high amount of burnout in the hr profession during that time.
But there was also a great deal of learning and I think the learning was that CEO S and and hr executives should be in linked arms,
it should be in lockstep.
Hr should not be um just an aside,
(23:11):
it should be directly in line with the ST the strategy of the company.
So people's strategy has been elevated.
Now,
you,
you see that in the world of work in terms of remote versus hybrid,
you see that with A I really coming at the forefront,
you see that with rapid technology change and you see that with just the pace of change and disruption in general,
(23:34):
which is leading to so much talent shortages and attrition.
So I think hr has really been elevated and I think they've gained more confidence to say,
hey,
we need,
we need to be,
I don't like the word a seat at the table,
but for sake of argument,
we'll just say that I want to be at the table and this is the people strategy that I think we need to follow.
(23:55):
So I love that increased confidence.
The second part to your question is what,
what they could do better.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
And I don't know necessarily if it's what they could do better.
But I think what we need to watch for is the emotional labor side of hr I think that that has increased tenfold in that the emotional load is high.
(24:22):
And so when I think of what could be done better,
I see it as more of a personal accountability,
but also a professional accountability.
I think that we need to ensure that hr leaders are armed with support and not just,
you know,
coaching support,
although that,
you know,
that's obviously it's my business and that we do that effectively but really arming themselves with resilience building and resilience practice and really embedding that in the organization.
(24:48):
And not just looking at that as a well-being initiative because that's how most of us position resilience.
But as a growth and productivity strategy,
I think hr could do much better by advancing the need for how we deal with change and uncertainty in the organization.
(25:09):
And so I think elevating resilience and change capabilities and agility in the workplace is going to become even more important.
And I don't know if I see that at the pace or at the level of seriousness that I think it should be at at this point in time.
(25:29):
Yeah,
I think that because of everything that you said about the the changing world and therefore the,
the sort of the recognition of the importance of hr that's not just which is very important,
getting people paid and making sure they have sick time and maternity and,
and all of these sorts of very important aspects of the job.
But these other real people centered issues of how do we deal with change,
(25:54):
equipping people to deal with conflicts and ST because so for so long,
I think hr you know,
managers,
I have either been told or been allowed to put those responsibilities of dealing with difficult conversations on to hr expecting hr to,
there are two things they give you your benefits and they're the heavy hand of the principal's office and changing that narrative.
(26:19):
And so instead of in a way being complicit because it's been dropped on them,
changing that narrative,
empowering line managers,
empowering employees,
putting services in place in the organization like buds and things like that to give people the ability to.
So that's off of the desk of hr to deal with stuff that should be dealt with a local level,
(26:40):
local is always better.
Um the direct reporting and dealing with those difficult conversations.
And then if there's a sort of escalation or need for mediation or,
or something else,
then it goes up the line that's from my vantage point of either either their needs to hr needs to branch off and bifurcate itself and where we're just dealing with these sorts of policies and then somebody else comes and does the people and culture aspect or some kind of structural reorganization so that then all the needs of the employees from the top to the,
(27:11):
you know,
the part time seasonal worker are being met.
Yeah,
you raise a really good point and I see this,
you know,
almost under the umbrella umbrella of helping leaders help themselves.
And I think I've seen this throughout my career and I still see it today where you're right,
the expectation is still that hr will solve conflict.
(27:31):
They'll be the one that gets in right away,
even at the very first stage of a conflict to mediate or to give advice or to uh suggest next steps or to throw them the policy document that says this is what you do.
And there's,
I think double accountability here.
I think that there's the,
the accountability of the organization and the CEO and the rest of the senior leadership team to help hr change that culture and,
(27:59):
and then have that move more towards giving leadership the skills to manage conflict.
And that starts with the very first conversation all the way through to even at a,
at a higher end,
which,
you know,
I guess in my world when I remember it would be mediation of some kind.
And so I think that's number one.
(28:21):
And I think number two,
I think hr needs to get comfortable not being the savior because I did hr postgrad a long,
long time ago and I can remember being in school under the employee relations course and being told that hr was the one to bring complaints to or grievances to if we're going to use union type language and we were taught how to deescalates.
(28:50):
So it's been ingrained in the education of hr as well.
So I think it's more systemic than just culture,
although culture is everything,
but also the educational systems really need to start turning,
turning it around.
So it's less about um hr taking all of those steps,
but instead it's hr having the right resources and skills and training and learning development that allows leaders to be equipped with managing conflict.
(29:20):
So it's a bit more of a demarcation from hr being the sole people responsible for resolving conflict because that's the emotional labor I'm talking about.
If we're too busy doing that,
we,
we don't have time to be strategic and if that's what the organization and then the world needs,
(29:42):
then there needs to be a decoupling of that responsibility.
Absolutely.
And when I think about hr hr puts out fires,
but don't we want to deal with conflict before they become fires,
right?
So early,
often swiftly,
justly in so far as we train managers and we train everyday employees to empower them and give them just like you had a mcdonald's like,
(30:06):
what can you do on your own?
When do you need to call somebody else in and really helping people,
the more you do that,
the less fires they're gonna be because these things escalate when they're not dealt with.
Now,
this is like the everyday occurrences that we know can really escalate and be traumatic in work.
I'm not talking about anything that's illegal behavior.
(30:27):
Um,
but,
but a lot of work conflict is that every day people,
colleagues aren't able to get along because this happened and it was never dealt with and it just grows and festers and new things get piled on.
Yeah,
exactly.
And,
and again,
I think that does start with,
(30:48):
you know,
deep training.
I do think that as leaders are on boarded into the organization that is a primary training.
I believe that needs to be put in place and that is not when and if you have conflict because that's going to be a given.
It's the same with change.
Change is going nowhere.
(31:09):
Well,
we all like to still think that it's somehow there will be stability for a period of time,
but it's really understanding that conflict exists,
it will continue to exist.
You'll have big things happening,
you'll have small things happen.
And so right out of the gate,
we're going to show you and,
and teach you how to effectively escalate conflict or de escalate conflict just like I had in my mcdonald's training and knowing when is the time to bring in perhaps hr or third party or whatever it might be.
(31:44):
But I think that training alone and the trust that instills in the leader,
that message that hey,
we trust you to deal with this on your own.
We are going to equip you with the right tools and resources and anchors.
Um And that I think would go such a long way in helping leaders feel supported because I think they too feel overwhelmed by the pace of conflict and they're like,
(32:10):
we don't know where else to go if not.
Hr so if we're approaching it too late,
I don't blame leaders for saying,
well,
I don't know where to go because I've never really been told how to do this,
especially if you're a new manager.
And I do think it's that middle manager level that is often the neglected level because they are subject matter experts or individual contributors,
(32:32):
they've likely never had to be responsible for managing employee conflict in such a way as they might have to now that they have direct reports.
So embed that training at the very least at that level.
Absolutely.
And I also think that the word training can is misleading.
We think that I've been trained and then I'm done.
(32:55):
I went to this training when I was on boarded maybe every few years and that's it.
But just like with change management,
we,
we constantly need to,
to be prepared and ready and reminded because with conflict and with every change,
it's something new.
And so I need assistance or the resources to process that.
(33:16):
How do I deal with this in a way that is commensurate with my values with the organization.
How do we address this so that there's a win win scenario and be being cognizant that it's not a one train and now you're trained in conflict,
that's it's completely unreasonable.
So this ongoing resources,
ongoing articulation from the leadership.
(33:37):
But this is a number one priority.
It does need to be strategic priority,
how we deal with conflict because how you deal with conflict essentially is telling employees how you value them because that's when we look at does this or side of ourselves,
does this organization care about me?
Do,
are they really listening to my needs?
What am I supposed to do when I don't know what to do because I'm in conflict with my colleague or a boss and having those constant resources being reminded that this,
(34:05):
these are internal values of how we treat one another.
This is what you're supposed to do so that we can have this healthy employee culture.
But it takes everybody and it's continually changing.
New people come,
new people go out.
And so I think embodying change management and conflict resolution.
Yeah.
And I'd like to add this to what you shared too,
(34:27):
which I think is really a really important point is the word sustainability comes to my mind and,
and how do we instill a sustainable way of managing and responding to change into conflict.
And what also really comes to my mind is going beyond training,
to actual day to day practice.
(34:49):
And this is why I have such a passion for building resilience capabilities because it's not just about managing conflict with the other person.
It's also learning how to intelligently manage your own response and your own reaction to stress or pressure.
And this is where I think it's really important to understand how to intelligently manage your energy and also know how to self regulate.
(35:17):
And that gets into embodied practices that are,
you know,
such as breathing.
I do a lot of work with heart math and I train the heart math system to organizations and,
and heart math is,
I don't know how familiar you are with it,
but it's essentially the science and study of mind and heart intelligence and how they communicate to one another.
(35:40):
And so how do we bring our most optimal state of functioning to teams,
to conversations,
to uh communication?
And a lot of that is learning to understand when your system is starting to shut down because it's very hard to manage conflict when your system is on high alert and when you're tightening or gripping or full of resentment and and can't get out of that emotional hijack.
(36:10):
And so helping leaders practice on a day to day basis in the moment,
very practical ways to down regulate their nervous system makes conflict management and that daily practice of resolving conflict so much easier and so much more receptive because you're able to actually put it in place from an optimal state versus a stressed state.
(36:38):
So I think it does bear mentioning that managing conflict is not just with other people.
It's how do you manage the disturbance within you and how do you,
how do we equip leaders with the skills to do that?
Absolutely.
Will you tell us about your coaching practice?
I mean,
that just made me think about how do we develop this?
(37:00):
Because I absolutely agree.
Dealing with conflict.
You don't start doing that when there's a conflict,
it's way before that and it's,
you know,
knowing yourself and dealing with yourself.
And so tell us about,
about your coaching practice.
Yeah.
Well,
thank you so much for asking that.
And yeah,
so my practice is an executive coaching and leadership development practice.
And so I do mainly two very important things.
(37:24):
One is I work directly with women and men in leadership positions to eradicate stress and overwhelm.
And I do that through the system of resilience,
through the system of understanding the body and the mind and how they interact with one another.
And so I do that in a group format.
So I go into organizations and I teach leaders in groups of how to eradicate the systems of stress and overwhelming and overfunctioning from a place of understanding the nervous system.
(37:56):
And how to do that on a day to day basis.
That's a big part of my practice.
It's,
I would say it's the resilience umbrella which I spend a lot of my time in.
And then I do private 1 to 1 coaching mostly with organizations for their senior leaders.
And really,
that's to help leaders develop the skills to lead at a higher pace from an understanding of their nervous system through an understanding of what leadership competencies look like at the more executive ranks from an understanding of how to make decisions from AAA strong centered grounded place.
(38:36):
Um And we look at things like our shaping forces.
So like all those different ways in which we were shaped throughout our life that may give rise to certain ways of behaving certain habits,
certain ways of responding.
And then we look at those condition tendencies,
if you will,
we call them CTS and we start to develop new ways of responding and reacting.
(38:58):
So it actually lends itself really well to,
you know,
to conflict resolution as well because we're teaching them the skills of how to do that for themselves personally and professionally and then bringing that to the workplace with their teams and,
and with their boards and,
and so on and so forth.
So those are probably the two areas I I play around with the most,
(39:19):
so valuable.
We all need help and sometimes we think,
oh,
I'm advancing because I've got these particular competencies.
But in order to really embody the next role,
why not avail ourselves of all the help so that we can work smarter and longer and avoid burnout and be more effective because people want to affect this positive change and we want to be good leaders,
(39:43):
but it's not always obvious what exactly that means or what's going on with us.
It's much easier to assess what's going on with other people.
But when we look at the mirror,
sometimes it's like we're blind,
you know,
we don't see what's going on.
Yeah.
You know,
I also think about the fact that we,
we generally don't set aside time to really focus on our emotional,
(40:08):
mental,
you know,
physical even health.
And so I,
I think the goal of coaching or,
or other sources of support is really to create a container of safety.
It's a safe,
it's a container of safety where you are free to explore your reactions,
your feelings,
your emotions and start to create a different perspective and not get caught because when you're caught,
(40:34):
that's when more conflict and more unrest shows up,
not only mentally and physically,
but also at work as well.
So,
Teresa,
when you think about all the places that you've worked,
will you tell us about a conflict you had,
how it resolved and given everything that,
you know,
now,
would you have done anything differently?
(40:54):
Yes,
for sure.
I can think of a couple,
but I'll,
I'll pick,
I'll pick just one.
So shortly before I left to start my,
my business,
I was a chief hr officer for a very very successful Fortune 500 Organization Global.
And I had strong feelings,
(41:15):
I'd say for the way that the global hr team was um implementing strategy and policy and ways of being to all the different business units around the world.
And I felt very constrained.
I felt as though my ability to impact was diminished because even though I was the leader of a local entity,
(41:40):
I felt at the time that there was very little room for me to maneuver very little room for me to impact and to impart change because everything kind of followed a playbook if you will.
And at the time,
what I recall is I spent a lot of time complaining and a lot of time even engaging in very unhealthy behaviors like,
(42:03):
you know,
venting with my coworkers,
which at the time I thought was,
well,
you have to let off steam somewhere.
And so I would engage with my colleagues and we would talk about all the ways in which they didn't know what they were doing,
they didn't know what they were talking about.
They didn't know what the real,
you know,
problems were at different units.
(42:25):
And there was one particular person I had uh the most problem with.
And I recall just being very closed to her and close to being able to,
to to know her and to know her perspective.
And I recall there being um a crucible moment if you will,
(42:46):
in,
in which her and I had a 1 to 1 and she asked me very specifically how things were going,
how things were rolling out.
And I shared with her my,
my complaints and I kind of like ran off like a list of all the ways in which what they were doing was not going to work.
And I remember her just saying nothing.
(43:08):
She just listened,
she just deeply listened.
She didn't interrupt.
She told me that everything I had to say was valid that um there were things that she was hoping to create change for and she gave me more of the perspective of the different boards and what their asks up were of,
(43:31):
of hr and I remember just in that short conversation having a huge aha that I never once thought to ask what it must be like for her in this role and what pressures she might be facing.
And she didn't go on about the pressures,
what she did so expertly was just listen,
(43:52):
she didn't interrupt,
she didn't defend,
she didn't tell me I was wrong for feeling this way.
She didn't um tell me things will get better.
She just said this is how it is,
this is what I'm working on based on what you're sharing with me.
This is what I can do.
And shortly thereafter,
she put in place a global coaching program that I eventually became a part of because that was one of my,
(44:17):
my big passions at the time,
she took my feedback and she did something with it.
And I remember a huge learning for me was to never assume,
to never assume,
you know,
what's happening in someone else's world for one thing from a more human level.
But also to understand that there are competing forces that drive decisions within companies.
(44:42):
And the goal is just to listen and to understand and to ask yourself,
do I fit?
And I did this global coaching program and I loved it and I learned so much and that led me to eventually leave and start my own business,
which has been a very successful business ever since.
And I learned so much of that from this global coaching program that I was a part of.
(45:05):
So I think it's,
it's really to just,
I guess the moral of the story,
the lesson of the story is that listen,
to understand,
not to talk,
like really just listen to understand.
And when you give someone that full and undivided attention,
magical things happen and like perspectives are changed,
(45:26):
attitudes are shifted.
I never thought of her in a negative way.
Ever.
Ever since that conversation,
I'm actually quite grateful to her for the grace and the poise and the calmness she had in listening to probably,
well,
not just me but many people who are very unhappy and just respond with such professionalism and honesty.
(45:49):
I felt very seen and very heard by her at that time.
What a great gift.
Yeah,
it really was.
It really was.
Well,
Teresa,
thank you so much for being on conflict managed.
I really enjoyed our time together.
Thank you.
I loved it too,
Mary.
Thanks for having me.
Yes.
The time just flew by I looked down like,
oh my goodness.
I know it's been so much fun.
(46:11):
Thank you.
Thank you,
Teresa for being on Conflict Managed.
What a joy to talk with you today.
I so appreciate your perspective,
especially after being in the trenches of HR for so long. Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictRestoration.com.
(46:32):
Come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday.
There's someone you would like to see interviewed on Conflict Managed,
Please reach out.
You can email us at 3PConflictRestoration@gmail.com. Wherever you're listening to this podcast,
If you wouldn't mind liking or subscribing whatever it is on that platform,
that really helps us. My latest book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (46:51):
Tips to Ensure Failure.
Looks at 80 things of what not to do at work.
It starts a conversation of what to do instead. You can find it on Amazon.
Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot. And remember, conflict is normal and to be expected.
Let's deal with it. Until next time,
take care.
(47:12):
So,
so.
All right,
this is all right.
I got it.
I do wraps now.
Get a sound side uptight asking questions.
(00:25):
Welcome to Conflict Managed.
I'm your host,
Merry Brown.
Today,
I'm Conflict Managed.
We are joined by Teresa Vozza.
Teresa is an award winning leadership expert,
a keynote speaker writer,
and the former chief human resource officer for a Fortune 500 company.
She's on a mission to help executive professionals eradicate burnout and transform their leadership.
Teresa is a certified personal and business coach and member of the International coach Federation,
(00:50):
a certified change leader,
a HeartMath certified trainer and is F one certified in the Association of Neurolinguistics Professionals.
Teresa's thought leadership can be found in many top podcasts such as Wickedly Smart Women and Leaders of transformation along with leading magazines like fast company collective World and women of influence.
(01:11):
Good Morning Teresa and Welcome to Conflict Managed.
Good Morning Merry.
Nice to be here.
So lovely to have you and I'm so interested in learning all about your career and your coaching and your background in.
Hr So let's go ahead and begin and will you tell us about the first job you ever had as a young person.
Yeah,
(01:32):
the very first job was I worked at mcdonald's.
I was 14.
I believe that was the age back then.
And my brother,
my older brother,
that was his first job.
And so he,
when he went there and he was,
he became a manager and then,
um we're three years apart.
And so when it came to be my age,
(01:54):
my brother scheduled an interview for me to meet with the manager at mcdonald's.
And I would say that was one of the best jobs I've ever had.
To be honest.
I really learned a lot about uh customer service and I learned a lot about conflict and how to deescalates,
uh very upset customers.
And so that was my first job and I think of it very fondly.
(02:17):
That's wonderful.
You know,
a lot of times when we think about these entry level jobs,
you're working fast food and sometimes we sort of hand wave away those experiences and yet,
oh my goodness,
you know,
dealing with people and their hunger,
dealing with to the general public and in such a quick,
fast paced environment,
there's actually a lot that goes in to those first jobs and we just plop young people right in and expect it all to run smoothly and they have to deal with a lot.
(02:48):
Yeah,
they do.
And,
and I think that's why this job stands out so much to me is because I remember at the time mcdonald's really spending a lot of time upfront in how to manage escalation.
And they talked a lot even at a very young age about the impact of listening and of looking at them in the eye and acknowledging their pain points and looking for ways to solve the problem without getting emotionally escalated ourselves.
(03:21):
And so for a young girl at age 14 to have learned that valuable skill in fast food in a job that there's a lot of people coming at you all the time I think was an invaluable starting point for me.
Wow.
What a gift.
Yeah,
especially at,
at a young age like that.
(03:41):
I think that all the different places that I've worked in,
nobody has ever told me how to deal with customers with clients.
It's either assumed that,
you know,
or people are too busy to really do that training.
And yet we know that if you do that upfront,
you save so much time and you just make it a better experience for the employee and the customer and clients.
(04:03):
Exactly.
I couldn't agree more.
And then the faster you solve the problem,
the faster you calm down and the other person calms down and it just,
it's such a difference maker in your entire day.
Yeah.
And that you had that experience at 14.
That's,
that's wonderful.
Yeah,
that was,
that was quite something I do recall there being many days where I thought,
(04:24):
wow,
this is really hard.
But I also recall the many instances in which I felt.
Wow.
I really handled that well.
And that's a great feeling to have as a teenager.
Yeah.
What?
That's a wonderful win.
You know,
all those little putting those conflict resolution de escalation tactics in place and actually seeing it work is very encouraging to continue to do that.
(04:46):
I'm sure you also took those skills into your private life as well.
Oh,
absolutely.
And,
and I remember because of that training,
it followed me everywhere.
It was something that I never forgot.
That's why even when you asked me the question,
instantly,
I go to mcdonald's because I recall using those skills when I got my first job,
(05:08):
post university and post college,
I recall using those skills even in my first friend fight and knowing enough to know that,
you know,
I needed to listen first and that I didn't need to jump in and,
and,
oh my goodness,
not interrupting things like that,
which are,
you know,
I have two kids,
10 and 12 and I try to instill those values in them too.
(05:31):
The importance of listening first before reacting and then from that place,
choosing how to respond.
So these are skills that when socialize,
socialize from a very young age,
they tend to stick with you.
Yeah,
absolutely.
That's one reason that I really like doing workplace conflict resolution because when you're at work,
(05:54):
you have in a way a captive audience you,
there are these standards of civility that hopefully are in place or they are being put in place and the standard of not only how to behave but how to,
how to deal with difficult emotions,
different difficult situations.
And if you train people at work as this is how you ought to,
this is what we expect you to do and we're empowering you to do it.
(06:16):
It does have this ripple effect through our life.
And so,
you know,
in our private life,
we can say,
you can't tell me what to do.
But in a work environment,
we can say this is what this is,
these are our standards,
standards and this is how we expect you to behave and we will give you resources to do it and then you get to practice and then it has this,
this ripple effect into the,
to the rest of our,
(06:37):
the rest of our lives.
Yeah.
And you know,
one other thing too,
Mary that comes to my mind is I'm remembering as you speak that even throughout that training both in as my first part time job.
But then throughout life,
I was also shown how to assert a boundary as well and to know where the line is and to know at what point,
(07:01):
you know,
for example,
using the mcdonald's example,
when to call the manager and knowing when to say,
I hear you're really upset,
I'm gonna need to walk away now or this is not acceptable and let's resume in an in at a later time,
it would look a bit different at mcdonald's,
of course.
But from that very early training,
(07:22):
I learned the invaluable lesson of knowing when is the right time to discern between ending the conversation,
moving it offline in some cases,
or like asking the customer to move over to the side to have a conversation.
So it's not right in front of everyone at the restaurant and knowing that my intrinsic value as an employee was also not to be squashed.
(07:48):
And I remember mcdonald's doing a really good job of saying when,
if,
when and if you feel threatened,
know that when it's time to walk away and to call a manager and we will intervene so that second level of conflict resolution would kick in.
And so that was really beneficial again to learn and be given an example of at a young age and then also be able to see how that translates later in life.
(08:16):
Yes.
And I imagine just within any sort of a service job,
you get opportunities to practice it,
right.
So it's one thing to be given a training and then maybe it doesn't come up that much.
But in fast food,
you're going to have conflict,
you're going to have orders that go awry,
you're going to have a variety of things that happen.
And so it's a skill that gets put into place and it's expected of you right away.
(08:40):
Yeah,
absolutely.
I couldn't have said it better myself and,
and I think also what it,
what it's also allowed for me and what I like to impart with others is a sense of empathy because now when I'm on the other line with someone,
whether it is,
you know,
the phone company or whether it is the neighbor or the mailman or anyone that we come into contact with that does something that we may consider to be objectionable or inappropriate or just simply incorrect.
(09:11):
There's a certain level of empathy that kicks in to understand the other side.
And I think that's also a really great by-product of receiving early skills and conflict resolution is understanding that there's a human on the other side of the counter or on the other side of the debate.
(09:34):
And so how to demonstrate empathy while still disagreeing if,
if need be in a really professional and poised way.
Wow.
I didn't think we'd be talking about mcdonald's this much,
but that is fantastic.
So,
what did you end up majoring in,
in college?
Yeah.
(09:54):
So I ended up taking Sociology and English and not surprisingly,
I loved both of those topics because sociology is a study of behavior and the study of groups and that lended itself really well to my interests in human behavior,
how groups work.
Um What are the,
(10:14):
what's the interaction model?
And so that led me to starting my career in,
in human resources quite some years ago.
And English,
you know,
what's interesting about English is that I was able to understand the role of character and the role of language and the role of words and how that plays a part in life and in relationships and in careers.
(10:39):
And I loved understanding the different perspectives that people have.
And I think a study of literature and a study of books really lends itself to that to an understanding of a different human experience.
And those two things follow me right up until present day,
I'm a huge reader.
Um I'm an executive coach now and a speaker and,
(11:02):
and writer and those are the types of things that really lend itself to sharing out uh perspective.
And I think language and,
and books really allow for that.
And the sociology piece is,
is so much fun because you really do get to understand the different dynamics at work and the different perspectives that are out there which I get for organizations lends itself really well to change management and to some of those other key,
(11:33):
key skills that we're needing more than ever now in a more complex world.
You know,
I think of those two disciplines,
uh English and um sociology as being very practical,
I think.
Um sometimes when uh parents hear that their child is majoring in something like,
like English literature or you're like,
oh,
no,
(11:53):
how are you going to be employed?
Don't you want to go into a stem field.
You know,
let's get something more concrete in the sciences,
math and sciences.
And,
um I think it's to misunderstand actually what's going on at work and the value of being able to communicate how,
how do I get out of my own lived experience because I only have the geographical location,
(12:14):
the experiences.
But there's something about reading where you can try to,
to,
um,
you know,
if we want to develop empathy and understanding and awareness that the world is multifaceted and there's so many legitimate,
different ways to embody and to live a life and to be able to,
to see different um different ways and to put your toe in there and,
(12:37):
and you get these different experiences and we are in this,
you know,
global environment,
the world is flat.
How do I,
how do I really communicate with somebody who is different,
either from a different,
a different generation,
a different culture,
different religious background and reading really lends itself to a growing of the imagination.
(12:59):
And the larger your imagination is,
you know,
curiosity is so important for change management,
for self development.
And then of course,
sociology,
the study of groups.
And I do think that some of these disciplines at the university get a bad rap as being not practical.
And I think they're extremely practical.
I,
I teach philosophy and um I,
(13:21):
I find it really practical because it's about what does it mean to live a good life and how do I know?
And how should I behave?
Yeah.
I,
I agree with you.
And I'm so glad you,
you said that because I recall it being in university and taking sociology and there was a certain,
almost stigma around that,
(13:43):
that subject and even also of around English and the,
the predominant attitude was,
well,
what are you going to do with that?
And the other,
you know,
I remember thought that occurred back then was also,
you know,
sociologist,
for those,
those who can't pass psychology.
So there was already,
there were like these hierarchies of like smartness and I remember feeling so defeated by the whole thing.
(14:09):
And now I,
in hindsight,
I kind of,
I wouldn't say laugh but I can appreciate with humor,
the folly of my thinking that somehow I was not smart enough to be in the big leagues with psychology and,
and science because I think these two subjects subject matters really lent itself well,
(14:32):
to me as a corporate executive,
I think it led itself really well for me as it relates to the writing and the thought leadership that I,
that I position.
And I think also it allows me to paint a picture for people.
So it's not just about words on a page or throwing up a powerpoint,
(14:53):
I can share a story or an analogy or I can paint a picture and I think those skills would not have been as strong if I wasn't such a lover of words and was such a lover of books.
Because I think it's in that discipline that I really learned the beauty of how words can shape a,
(15:16):
you know,
a feeling and experience and a perspective.
And I know that when I share from that place,
whether it's on a stage to hundreds or in a 1 to 1 setting,
the impact that it has on the other person is much more profound.
So scoff as they may,
(15:40):
I think it lends itself very well.
Uh in my case,
and I'm sure in many,
many others as well.
Oh,
I just so agree.
I think sometimes we fool ourselves as to what it means to be a human person and how,
and how we as people grow and learn and develop and how we try on different ideas and story so powerful because we aren't just these detached little computers making computations.
(16:06):
We are these embodied creatures living out our story and interacting with others.
And in so far as we want to move forward,
it helps us to,
to get that foothold.
Oh,
this is what she's talking about.
This is what he means in this,
this story form.
And as you said,
it just,
it grabs you in and gets your attention because it's a human connection.
(16:26):
Yeah.
Yeah,
I love everything that you said and I couldn't agree more and,
and to be fully transparent,
I think much of that muscle was practiced and grown.
I don't necessarily think that it was something that I was just born with.
Although I was a reader from a very young age and I had a wild imagination from a very young age.
But I think that,
(16:48):
you know,
the skill of story and the skill of painting a picture or even in my case with,
with my clients,
I love to share examples for example.
And that is when I know that they've really got it.
If I just explain a theory or explain a fact,
(17:09):
what I get is a lot of head nodding,
but I'm not seeing the,
the,
the transformation.
And I,
and I'm a big fan of the word embodied.
I did a lot of work with somatic experiencing and being,
you know,
in the body as as I speak and as I relate and as I communicate.
And so in that training,
I really look for the same in others,
(17:31):
not just them understanding a concept,
but them being moved by something,
them being stirred,
them being able to connect the dots in their own personal story.
And I think that's what makes for exceptional leaders.
It's those people that walk into a room and you just know that they have a presence that is fully online with you,
(17:59):
not apart from you.
And you know,
we hear often walk the talk for me,
walk,
the talk is no,
is no different than simply saying they are embodied their actions and their words are congruent.
And so I think it's such an important concept to be able to relate to other people in more than one way of communicating.
(18:21):
Yeah,
absolutely.
I have some leaders have popped into my mind of how you feel in their presence where they just walk into the coffee shop and you're like,
oh,
you know,
and you see how they are and I've been with leaders who you feel that way in their presence.
But then when you're out of their presence,
maybe they don't follow through.
Uh And so,
like you said,
there's a variety of ways to communicate.
It's one thing in sort of the detached communication that you might have just,
(18:45):
that's in the everyday business.
But then when you see them in person,
that continuity of character,
it's not one or the other.
It's that both and all right,
excellent leadership is the person who's able to,
to marry those two.
Yeah,
I,
I agree with you and no better way to see that than when conflict arises.
You know,
staying on topic with,
(19:06):
with what you do.
But it's so true.
It's like when,
when push comes to shove and you're under pressure and you're under stress,
that is really the time to,
to,
to have your character be demonstrated and it's not to say that we're perfect people.
I mean,
I lose my cool too and I get impatient and I become irritable and it's not to dehumanize us or to say that we,
(19:34):
we're not allowed to have those types of reactions.
But it's really about the consistency when I see a leader consistently respond to pressure in roughly the same way.
And I look for things like curiosity and calmness and centeredness and being able to see all sides and perspective,
(19:56):
taking and deep listening.
And if I see that if we're gonna use the 8020 rule,
80% of the time and give them grace for that 20% where they might just,
you know,
have um said something out of turn,
then I know that we're dealing with someone who is real and sincere and,
(20:17):
and genuine.
That's such a good point because sometimes we deify our leaders and we expect them to be,
you know,
you're at the top.
That means you should all,
you must always be at the top of your game and it's just unrealistic expectation.
But,
you know,
allowing them to be human,
allowing them to make mistakes just like they allow us to make mistakes,
right?
This,
(20:37):
you know,
this is what we really want.
So what after college did you go right into?
Hr actually,
I,
for two years,
I worked with kids with disabilities.
And so I spent some time at the time,
I thought I was going to go into social work.
I knew that I had uh an empathetic bent and that I really loved the service profession.
(21:00):
I grew up with a cousin of mine who was on the autism spectrum and really learned how to understand people who are neuro diverse.
So I had an interest,
I did that for a couple of years and I decided at that point in time that the next part of my story was going to be gaining more education.
(21:21):
I loved working with kids with disabilities.
It is a high burnout profession.
It's very,
very tough and I'll be the first to acknowledge that I wanted some difference.
I didn't want solely that role.
I needed something else to really spur my,
you know,
academic interests.
So I went back to school and did a hr postgrad and pretty quickly out of the gate,
(21:43):
I was hired as an intern which later turned into a job.
And then 22 years later,
I was,
I was in hr for a good long time before I decided to start my own business in 2019.
So when you look at the hr profession,
what do you think right now hr is getting right?
(22:04):
And what are some,
some areas in which you think they need to,
to develop or change?
Course?
Yeah,
I spend a lot of time thinking about this because a lot of my clients are hr leaders and I think what they're getting right is that they are really positioning themselves to be more strategic.
(22:26):
They are no longer settling for the administrative side of hr,
and I think,
I think we've fallen prey to that reputation for far too long.
And I think once the pandemic hit and we were thrown and,
or catapulted or,
um,
into leading in an entirely different way.
(22:48):
That was our day.
It was our day and it wasn't our day because there was a high amount of burnout in the hr profession during that time.
But there was also a great deal of learning and I think the learning was that CEO S and and hr executives should be in linked arms,
it should be in lockstep.
Hr should not be um just an aside,
(23:11):
it should be directly in line with the ST the strategy of the company.
So people's strategy has been elevated.
Now,
you,
you see that in the world of work in terms of remote versus hybrid,
you see that with A I really coming at the forefront,
you see that with rapid technology change and you see that with just the pace of change and disruption in general,
(23:34):
which is leading to so much talent shortages and attrition.
So I think hr has really been elevated and I think they've gained more confidence to say,
hey,
we need,
we need to be,
I don't like the word a seat at the table,
but for sake of argument,
we'll just say that I want to be at the table and this is the people strategy that I think we need to follow.
(23:55):
So I love that increased confidence.
The second part to your question is what,
what they could do better.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
And I don't know necessarily if it's what they could do better.
But I think what we need to watch for is the emotional labor side of hr I think that that has increased tenfold in that the emotional load is high.
(24:22):
And so when I think of what could be done better,
I see it as more of a personal accountability,
but also a professional accountability.
I think that we need to ensure that hr leaders are armed with support and not just,
you know,
coaching support,
although that,
you know,
that's obviously it's my business and that we do that effectively but really arming themselves with resilience building and resilience practice and really embedding that in the organization.
(24:48):
And not just looking at that as a well-being initiative because that's how most of us position resilience.
But as a growth and productivity strategy,
I think hr could do much better by advancing the need for how we deal with change and uncertainty in the organization.
(25:09):
And so I think elevating resilience and change capabilities and agility in the workplace is going to become even more important.
And I don't know if I see that at the pace or at the level of seriousness that I think it should be at at this point in time.
(25:29):
Yeah,
I think that because of everything that you said about the the changing world and therefore the,
the sort of the recognition of the importance of hr that's not just which is very important,
getting people paid and making sure they have sick time and maternity and,
and all of these sorts of very important aspects of the job.
But these other real people centered issues of how do we deal with change,
(25:54):
equipping people to deal with conflicts and ST because so for so long,
I think hr you know,
managers,
I have either been told or been allowed to put those responsibilities of dealing with difficult conversations on to hr expecting hr to,
there are two things they give you your benefits and they're the heavy hand of the principal's office and changing that narrative.
(26:19):
And so instead of in a way being complicit because it's been dropped on them,
changing that narrative,
empowering line managers,
empowering employees,
putting services in place in the organization like buds and things like that to give people the ability to.
So that's off of the desk of hr to deal with stuff that should be dealt with a local level,
(26:40):
local is always better.
Um the direct reporting and dealing with those difficult conversations.
And then if there's a sort of escalation or need for mediation or,
or something else,
then it goes up the line that's from my vantage point of either either their needs to hr needs to branch off and bifurcate itself and where we're just dealing with these sorts of policies and then somebody else comes and does the people and culture aspect or some kind of structural reorganization so that then all the needs of the employees from the top to the,
(27:11):
you know,
the part time seasonal worker are being met.
Yeah,
you raise a really good point and I see this,
you know,
almost under the umbrella umbrella of helping leaders help themselves.
And I think I've seen this throughout my career and I still see it today where you're right,
the expectation is still that hr will solve conflict.
(27:31):
They'll be the one that gets in right away,
even at the very first stage of a conflict to mediate or to give advice or to uh suggest next steps or to throw them the policy document that says this is what you do.
And there's,
I think double accountability here.
I think that there's the,
the accountability of the organization and the CEO and the rest of the senior leadership team to help hr change that culture and,
(27:59):
and then have that move more towards giving leadership the skills to manage conflict.
And that starts with the very first conversation all the way through to even at a,
at a higher end,
which,
you know,
I guess in my world when I remember it would be mediation of some kind.
And so I think that's number one.
(28:21):
And I think number two,
I think hr needs to get comfortable not being the savior because I did hr postgrad a long,
long time ago and I can remember being in school under the employee relations course and being told that hr was the one to bring complaints to or grievances to if we're going to use union type language and we were taught how to deescalates.
(28:50):
So it's been ingrained in the education of hr as well.
So I think it's more systemic than just culture,
although culture is everything,
but also the educational systems really need to start turning,
turning it around.
So it's less about um hr taking all of those steps,
but instead it's hr having the right resources and skills and training and learning development that allows leaders to be equipped with managing conflict.
(29:20):
So it's a bit more of a demarcation from hr being the sole people responsible for resolving conflict because that's the emotional labor I'm talking about.
If we're too busy doing that,
we,
we don't have time to be strategic and if that's what the organization and then the world needs,
(29:42):
then there needs to be a decoupling of that responsibility.
Absolutely.
And when I think about hr hr puts out fires,
but don't we want to deal with conflict before they become fires,
right?
So early,
often swiftly,
justly in so far as we train managers and we train everyday employees to empower them and give them just like you had a mcdonald's like,
(30:06):
what can you do on your own?
When do you need to call somebody else in and really helping people,
the more you do that,
the less fires they're gonna be because these things escalate when they're not dealt with.
Now,
this is like the everyday occurrences that we know can really escalate and be traumatic in work.
I'm not talking about anything that's illegal behavior.
(30:27):
Um,
but,
but a lot of work conflict is that every day people,
colleagues aren't able to get along because this happened and it was never dealt with and it just grows and festers and new things get piled on.
Yeah,
exactly.
And,
and again,
I think that does start with,
(30:48):
you know,
deep training.
I do think that as leaders are on boarded into the organization that is a primary training.
I believe that needs to be put in place and that is not when and if you have conflict because that's going to be a given.
It's the same with change.
Change is going nowhere.
(31:09):
Well,
we all like to still think that it's somehow there will be stability for a period of time,
but it's really understanding that conflict exists,
it will continue to exist.
You'll have big things happening,
you'll have small things happen.
And so right out of the gate,
we're going to show you and,
and teach you how to effectively escalate conflict or de escalate conflict just like I had in my mcdonald's training and knowing when is the time to bring in perhaps hr or third party or whatever it might be.
(31:44):
But I think that training alone and the trust that instills in the leader,
that message that hey,
we trust you to deal with this on your own.
We are going to equip you with the right tools and resources and anchors.
Um And that I think would go such a long way in helping leaders feel supported because I think they too feel overwhelmed by the pace of conflict and they're like,
(32:10):
we don't know where else to go if not.
Hr so if we're approaching it too late,
I don't blame leaders for saying,
well,
I don't know where to go because I've never really been told how to do this,
especially if you're a new manager.
And I do think it's that middle manager level that is often the neglected level because they are subject matter experts or individual contributors,
(32:32):
they've likely never had to be responsible for managing employee conflict in such a way as they might have to now that they have direct reports.
So embed that training at the very least at that level.
Absolutely.
And I also think that the word training can is misleading.
We think that I've been trained and then I'm done.
(32:55):
I went to this training when I was on boarded maybe every few years and that's it.
But just like with change management,
we,
we constantly need to,
to be prepared and ready and reminded because with conflict and with every change,
it's something new.
And so I need assistance or the resources to process that.
(33:16):
How do I deal with this in a way that is commensurate with my values with the organization.
How do we address this so that there's a win win scenario and be being cognizant that it's not a one train and now you're trained in conflict,
that's it's completely unreasonable.
So this ongoing resources,
ongoing articulation from the leadership.
(33:37):
But this is a number one priority.
It does need to be strategic priority,
how we deal with conflict because how you deal with conflict essentially is telling employees how you value them because that's when we look at does this or side of ourselves,
does this organization care about me?
Do,
are they really listening to my needs?
What am I supposed to do when I don't know what to do because I'm in conflict with my colleague or a boss and having those constant resources being reminded that this,
(34:05):
these are internal values of how we treat one another.
This is what you're supposed to do so that we can have this healthy employee culture.
But it takes everybody and it's continually changing.
New people come,
new people go out.
And so I think embodying change management and conflict resolution.
Yeah.
And I'd like to add this to what you shared too,
(34:27):
which I think is really a really important point is the word sustainability comes to my mind and,
and how do we instill a sustainable way of managing and responding to change into conflict.
And what also really comes to my mind is going beyond training,
to actual day to day practice.
(34:49):
And this is why I have such a passion for building resilience capabilities because it's not just about managing conflict with the other person.
It's also learning how to intelligently manage your own response and your own reaction to stress or pressure.
And this is where I think it's really important to understand how to intelligently manage your energy and also know how to self regulate.
(35:17):
And that gets into embodied practices that are,
you know,
such as breathing.
I do a lot of work with heart math and I train the heart math system to organizations and,
and heart math is,
I don't know how familiar you are with it,
but it's essentially the science and study of mind and heart intelligence and how they communicate to one another.
(35:40):
And so how do we bring our most optimal state of functioning to teams,
to conversations,
to uh communication?
And a lot of that is learning to understand when your system is starting to shut down because it's very hard to manage conflict when your system is on high alert and when you're tightening or gripping or full of resentment and and can't get out of that emotional hijack.
(36:10):
And so helping leaders practice on a day to day basis in the moment,
very practical ways to down regulate their nervous system makes conflict management and that daily practice of resolving conflict so much easier and so much more receptive because you're able to actually put it in place from an optimal state versus a stressed state.
(36:38):
So I think it does bear mentioning that managing conflict is not just with other people.
It's how do you manage the disturbance within you and how do you,
how do we equip leaders with the skills to do that?
Absolutely.
Will you tell us about your coaching practice?
I mean,
that just made me think about how do we develop this?
(37:00):
Because I absolutely agree.
Dealing with conflict.
You don't start doing that when there's a conflict,
it's way before that and it's,
you know,
knowing yourself and dealing with yourself.
And so tell us about,
about your coaching practice.
Yeah.
Well,
thank you so much for asking that.
And yeah,
so my practice is an executive coaching and leadership development practice.
And so I do mainly two very important things.
(37:24):
One is I work directly with women and men in leadership positions to eradicate stress and overwhelm.
And I do that through the system of resilience,
through the system of understanding the body and the mind and how they interact with one another.
And so I do that in a group format.
So I go into organizations and I teach leaders in groups of how to eradicate the systems of stress and overwhelming and overfunctioning from a place of understanding the nervous system.
(37:56):
And how to do that on a day to day basis.
That's a big part of my practice.
It's,
I would say it's the resilience umbrella which I spend a lot of my time in.
And then I do private 1 to 1 coaching mostly with organizations for their senior leaders.
And really,
that's to help leaders develop the skills to lead at a higher pace from an understanding of their nervous system through an understanding of what leadership competencies look like at the more executive ranks from an understanding of how to make decisions from AAA strong centered grounded place.
(38:36):
Um And we look at things like our shaping forces.
So like all those different ways in which we were shaped throughout our life that may give rise to certain ways of behaving certain habits,
certain ways of responding.
And then we look at those condition tendencies,
if you will,
we call them CTS and we start to develop new ways of responding and reacting.
(38:58):
So it actually lends itself really well to,
you know,
to conflict resolution as well because we're teaching them the skills of how to do that for themselves personally and professionally and then bringing that to the workplace with their teams and,
and with their boards and,
and so on and so forth.
So those are probably the two areas I I play around with the most,
(39:19):
so valuable.
We all need help and sometimes we think,
oh,
I'm advancing because I've got these particular competencies.
But in order to really embody the next role,
why not avail ourselves of all the help so that we can work smarter and longer and avoid burnout and be more effective because people want to affect this positive change and we want to be good leaders,
(39:43):
but it's not always obvious what exactly that means or what's going on with us.
It's much easier to assess what's going on with other people.
But when we look at the mirror,
sometimes it's like we're blind,
you know,
we don't see what's going on.
Yeah.
You know,
I also think about the fact that we,
we generally don't set aside time to really focus on our emotional,
(40:08):
mental,
you know,
physical even health.
And so I,
I think the goal of coaching or,
or other sources of support is really to create a container of safety.
It's a safe,
it's a container of safety where you are free to explore your reactions,
your feelings,
your emotions and start to create a different perspective and not get caught because when you're caught,
(40:34):
that's when more conflict and more unrest shows up,
not only mentally and physically,
but also at work as well.
So,
Teresa,
when you think about all the places that you've worked,
will you tell us about a conflict you had,
how it resolved and given everything that,
you know,
now,
would you have done anything differently?
(40:54):
Yes,
for sure.
I can think of a couple,
but I'll,
I'll pick,
I'll pick just one.
So shortly before I left to start my,
my business,
I was a chief hr officer for a very very successful Fortune 500 Organization Global.
And I had strong feelings,
(41:15):
I'd say for the way that the global hr team was um implementing strategy and policy and ways of being to all the different business units around the world.
And I felt very constrained.
I felt as though my ability to impact was diminished because even though I was the leader of a local entity,
(41:40):
I felt at the time that there was very little room for me to maneuver very little room for me to impact and to impart change because everything kind of followed a playbook if you will.
And at the time,
what I recall is I spent a lot of time complaining and a lot of time even engaging in very unhealthy behaviors like,
(42:03):
you know,
venting with my coworkers,
which at the time I thought was,
well,
you have to let off steam somewhere.
And so I would engage with my colleagues and we would talk about all the ways in which they didn't know what they were doing,
they didn't know what they were talking about.
They didn't know what the real,
you know,
problems were at different units.
(42:25):
And there was one particular person I had uh the most problem with.
And I recall just being very closed to her and close to being able to,
to to know her and to know her perspective.
And I recall there being um a crucible moment if you will,
(42:46):
in,
in which her and I had a 1 to 1 and she asked me very specifically how things were going,
how things were rolling out.
And I shared with her my,
my complaints and I kind of like ran off like a list of all the ways in which what they were doing was not going to work.
And I remember her just saying nothing.
(43:08):
She just listened,
she just deeply listened.
She didn't interrupt.
She told me that everything I had to say was valid that um there were things that she was hoping to create change for and she gave me more of the perspective of the different boards and what their asks up were of,
(43:31):
of hr and I remember just in that short conversation having a huge aha that I never once thought to ask what it must be like for her in this role and what pressures she might be facing.
And she didn't go on about the pressures,
what she did so expertly was just listen,
(43:52):
she didn't interrupt,
she didn't defend,
she didn't tell me I was wrong for feeling this way.
She didn't um tell me things will get better.
She just said this is how it is,
this is what I'm working on based on what you're sharing with me.
This is what I can do.
And shortly thereafter,
she put in place a global coaching program that I eventually became a part of because that was one of my,
(44:17):
my big passions at the time,
she took my feedback and she did something with it.
And I remember a huge learning for me was to never assume,
to never assume,
you know,
what's happening in someone else's world for one thing from a more human level.
But also to understand that there are competing forces that drive decisions within companies.
(44:42):
And the goal is just to listen and to understand and to ask yourself,
do I fit?
And I did this global coaching program and I loved it and I learned so much and that led me to eventually leave and start my own business,
which has been a very successful business ever since.
And I learned so much of that from this global coaching program that I was a part of.
(45:05):
So I think it's,
it's really to just,
I guess the moral of the story,
the lesson of the story is that listen,
to understand,
not to talk,
like really just listen to understand.
And when you give someone that full and undivided attention,
magical things happen and like perspectives are changed,
(45:26):
attitudes are shifted.
I never thought of her in a negative way.
Ever.
Ever since that conversation,
I'm actually quite grateful to her for the grace and the poise and the calmness she had in listening to probably,
well,
not just me but many people who are very unhappy and just respond with such professionalism and honesty.
(45:49):
I felt very seen and very heard by her at that time.
What a great gift.
Yeah,
it really was.
It really was.
Well,
Teresa,
thank you so much for being on conflict managed.
I really enjoyed our time together.
Thank you.
I loved it too,
Mary.
Thanks for having me.
Yes.
The time just flew by I looked down like,
oh my goodness.
I know it's been so much fun.
(46:11):
Thank you.
Thank you,
Teresa for being on Conflict Managed.
What a joy to talk with you today.
I so appreciate your perspective,
especially after being in the trenches of HR for so long. Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by me,
Merry Brown.
You can find us online at 3PConflictRestoration.com.
(46:32):
Come back.
We have new episodes every Tuesday.
There's someone you would like to see interviewed on Conflict Managed,
Please reach out.
You can email us at 3PConflictRestoration@gmail.com. Wherever you're listening to this podcast,
If you wouldn't mind liking or subscribing whatever it is on that platform,
that really helps us. My latest book,
How To Be Unprofessional at Work (46:51):
Tips to Ensure Failure.
Looks at 80 things of what not to do at work.
It starts a conversation of what to do instead. You can find it on Amazon.
Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot. And remember, conflict is normal and to be expected.
Let's deal with it. Until next time,
take care.
(47:12):
So,
so.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.