February 8, 2024 • 45 mins
Ever wonder what the process is to write a song? Anyone can write a song, but when you get a recording contract, is there a specific process? Are there requirements? Do record labels get to control the songs that are written? We talk to our favorite recording artist Steven Stanley about it all. BUT, the BEST PART, we attempt to write a song in real time, have Stephen perform it, and share the live recording. Listen in to a hilarious song writing project from idea to produced recording!
Get ready to journey deep into the valuable insights of the songwriting process and enticing behind-the-scenes secrets from the music industry.
Consider It Joy is a production of 88.3 Life FM in Bakersfield, CA. You can listen to hosts Matt & Aaron Monday - Friday every week! Find all the ways to listen and connect here! And please consider subscribing and leaving us a positive review to help us reach more people!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, it's Matt, co-host of Consider It Joy. And before we jump into today's
episode, which I am crazy excited about, I wanted to welcome you for those of
you that are new to the podcast. Thanks for listening.
Myself, my co-host Aaron, we are radio DJs. That's our day job.
And this is an extension of the show. And because of what we do,
songwriting comes up a lot.
(00:20):
All these different processes that go into creating a song.
So we wanted to dedicate an episode to that specifically. Even my 11-year-old
has been trying to write some songs.
So that's why we invited recording artist Stephen Stanley onto the show with us.
We're going to talk about what that process is, what it looks like in the professional
world, and then make sure you stick around to the end.
(00:42):
Because we are going to attempt something we've never done before,
which is in real time, write a song with Stephen.
And by the end of the podcast, have a written and recorded version of that song.
I think you guys are going to love it. Stick around. round this is considerate joy.
(01:02):
See if it sparks joy because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance,
well welcome back this is consider it joy the official podcast of 88.3 life
FM and we are so excited about this episode so we always every episode we try
(01:23):
to take a theme or a topic and then then often invite a guest in who's really
familiar with that topic.
So this one made a lot of sense, Aaron, because you know, at the end of this
last year, we did an episode or 2023 rewind talked about the top movies,
moments, and music of the year.
And through that podcast, go back and listen to it, but we'll spoil a little
bit of it, which is we chose our top three albums.
(01:46):
And without talking to each other. And in the end, as we revealed them on that
podcast, one album stood out as our favorite of the entire year,
which was Divided Frame of Mind.
Stephen Stanley. And so he's a new artist.
But his songs just came out rocking hard. Not just rocking, but the words are good.
Put the, he has that late 90s, early 2000 rock edge to it.
(02:10):
Yeah, but with a depth, I think, and a connection that came with it.
And so we decided if we wanted to do a podcast
about songwriting we should probably go to the guy who
we loved his songs the most so we stalked him and found
where he lived and we got him to join us no we didn't really find out where
he lived but we'll ask you later steven stanley joining us what's up how y'all
(02:32):
doing man we're excited to have you on i know we've kind of said this before
and we're not trying to make it awkward for you but that's not blowing smoke
We really we really love the album so much.
And so we're just excited to have you here to talk about songwriting.
And here's kind of what the goal I'm thinking, Stephen, if you're down with
this, I want us to kind of maybe cover some bases, give an idea of especially
(02:56):
songwriting on the perspective of somebody with a record label.
And this is your profession.
And then through that, let's see if we can develop by the end of this podcast,
by the time we're done and we hit stop, we have created a song.
So we use some of the methods that we can learn from you on songwriting and just see what happens.
(03:17):
Maybe, maybe even see if it's good enough. We'll have you perform it at the
end of the show. All right.
It'll be your next single after the current one. It might be. It might be.
I don't know. Oh, well, I want to before we even talk about what that song would
title would be that we're going to work on.
Let's talk about your current single that's coming out. We had the chance to world premiere this.
(03:39):
We were so excited. It's called Whatever It Takes.
And I remember when I first heard it.
Like it got me to work out. Like I was just working out and I was just, I'm in the gym.
It's like 6am in the morning. And that song comes on. I'm like, what is this?
And I was just, I could not stop listening to it. One, it's got the driving
music, but the words really connected.
(04:01):
Tell us what, what's that song about?
Yeah. So I wrote it actually. So this is, this is actually weird.
The song that got me a record deal is actually called whatever it takes.
But it is a completely different
song so that that was a while ago but we
actually never ended up releasing it but whatever
(04:24):
it takes is a song about redemption
it's also a song about self-worth and
and longing for change and and
god being the true change in someone's
life and in my life and I was talking
to you guys earlier I wrote like so many different versions of
this song and I wrote it with a few of my friends and we
(04:47):
wrote like nine different versions of the chorus and the perspective used to
be different used to be me talking to someone but when I made it personal and
and made it me sort of talking to Jesus the song sort of came alive and it's
you know it's the power The power of the song,
I think, comes from the self-worth.
(05:10):
When we find our self-worth in ourselves or in our successes or failures,
I think our worth, our self-worth can tend to just not last.
But when we find our worth in Christ, our worth is infinite because he is worthy.
He's infinitely worthy.
So that's really where the heart of the song is.
(05:32):
So I want to take your theme there, and it was perspective. That's what changed
the way that the song is written for you.
So let's take that. So looking at the perspective of it. Yeah.
Well, and even maybe, maybe as a start to give us a little bit of a layout,
because I, I feel like anytime we've talked to people about songwriting,
there are, it's so wildly different between people, how that process works as
(05:56):
we get into the perspective and all of these things, is there even a way you
would be able to kind of give an overview,
look at how a song is written, you know, does maybe like the nuts and bolts side of things.
So you have you have a record contract now you're just writing or they're writing
what is kind of an maybe an overview and then we can dig a little bit more into
(06:18):
the details yeah this might sound strange but a lot of my creative process is
like the film director martin sporsady.
So he is all about you have
like your first idea and then that idea goes through like a whole evolution
and by the end it's something it could be something totally different so that
(06:40):
that was the case with whatever it takes and it was the case with probably 70
percent of the songs on the album where i had the original idea then maybe i revisited it like,
six months later or a year later, and it's just something completely different.
So the actual process, my process is just pure chaos.
At least for making the album, it was totally random.
(07:05):
It's like, okay, it's four o'clock in the morning, and I woke up randomly and now I'm writing a song.
So I don't have any instruments, I'm just writing stuff.
I'm in the car and I'm voicing the morning stuff. So I've found recently,
probably in the past four months, as I've started to get ready for what's next,
(07:25):
it's like, what's first, the production or the actual writing?
Yeah. So I found with the more heartfelt mid-tempo songs, I like to start on just a guitar or a piano.
But if I want like a really upbeat like
rocking song or something that's like kind of dark or like
(07:46):
you know sort of that 90s 2000s rock I want to start with
the track first so figure out what that is and
then sort of write around it so that's been sorry do
you find yourself flipping it down the road because you say you you may come
back to it like six months later and that melodic song is now a rocker right
yeah I could anything is possible really but I like I like the freedom and I
(08:11):
like to work with people that give me that freedom because some people you work with,
it's like very rigid and it's like, no, we started on this path and we're not
changing until, you know, we're going to fulfill that.
Because you work with people, does the label say to you, you have to have these
many songs written by a certain point in time? Is there a contract for that?
(08:31):
Yeah. So I think in my publishing contract, I have to write 12 songs in an album
cycle, which for me, it's like I wrote 300 songs for my first album cycle. So it's fine.
That doesn't bother me. But yeah, 12 songs is actually not that many now that
I think about it. But yeah. Yeah.
So from a practical standpoint, then, because I'm also kind of thinking in mind
(08:55):
for there may be some people that stumble across this episode that are they want to be songwriters.
They're trying to understand the process. So even in the professional world,
it sounds like there's not necessarily a streamlined process that,
well, I'm on a label now. So it's ABC.
It's still your individualized process that works for you.
Is that does that seem true? yeah totally i think one
(09:16):
process that works for no matter
who you are it's probably the best advice i got
was from actually i didn't meet him this
is just him on a podcast but it's ed sheeran he said songwriting is kind of
like a water filter the more you do it you know and just start you start to
filter out all the bad songs and then all of a sudden the pure stuff starts
(09:37):
coming so So it's really the more you do it, which sounds like, just start writing.
But that's really a big part of it, is you just have to start and write and write and write.
I did, I think in 2017 or 2018, I was working with a producer here in Atlanta.
And the challenge was that we were going to make this EP and then go to Nashville
(10:01):
and show some label people and industry people.
The challenge was write a song every day, no matter if it's terrible.
Or it could, and it could be great. Who knows? But write a song every day.
And I did that year. I wrote a song every day and there's a lot of bad songs.
When I talked with Andrew rip and Andrew, Andrew rip, he had said to,
(10:23):
if you're going to write a song or if you have something in your head,
that like, this sounds good.
Then to sing it into your phone. Cause you're always walking with a recording device.
And then I asked him, well, how many songs do you have on your phone that we've
never heard? And it was just incredible.
Do you have anything like that? Oh, yeah.
(10:44):
I've got, let's see. So voice memos.
Yeah, it looks like there's 2,300 voice memos.
And then there's, this is the other one. So I've got all my demos.
And these are like full, like made songs. That no one's heard.
That no one's well i guess the album's on youtube yeah demos i've got 616 demos wow.
(11:10):
Yeah so yeah all of
a sudden the 12 songs not not not such a big deal right
so what is i think one of the things maybe
a lot of people may not realize especially casual music fans
on on this side of thing is how often it's a
team effort now it's easy to look at like the grammys just
took place and you just you see the artists be like oh that's their song and
(11:32):
you don't maybe think twice about the fact that there's a team with them
or even a group of writers why
why is that the case how how does that become a
thing where because you write with some of your friends and things why is that
a common thing that it's a team of people yeah it takes a village that was one
of the first things i learned when i started making music not even just professionally
(11:54):
just Just being in the studio and being around music, it takes a village.
I mean, I've devoted my life to writing and singing and also producing.
So those are my three things that I try and get better at.
But my friend Zach, who wrote Whatever It Takes With Me, his whole life has been guitar.
(12:16):
So he's been dedicated. And I don't want to play guitar on my record.
I want him to play guitar on my record. so yeah he's
also a great like melody writer and everything else but different people
have different strengths and if there
are certain people that can do it all on their own and i'm
just not one of those people so it sounds like that's also a job for everybody
(12:40):
if you're willing to write if you're gonna do with people you'd be willing to
the idea that you feel like you're sold on yet do you ever feel like you have
to be willing to let that idea go in order for it to work,
Yeah, totally. I mean, that's what a good producer does. That's what I've learned
from Ted T. He mutes stuff.
When we get down to it, when we recorded all of our ideas and everything,
(13:04):
he just starts muting everything. What do we not need?
Same with lyrics. It's like, do we need to say this? Do we need a bridge here?
Or can we just sing, whoa? Is that what we're feeling right now?
It's simple. Well, I think about when I was younger and not realizing that you
have different skill sets and different talents that go into it.
The things that you're talking about, somebody that's just really good at playing
(13:27):
whatever, or maybe it's the way that you put all those pieces together or the
person that's just writing comes naturally or communicating a truth in simple words or the producer.
And so when you start thinking of it that way, you realize, oh,
it actually makes sense that this is a whole team thing, because it is very,
especially as you get into the professional realm, very focused art forms.
(13:51):
Each one in their own right.
Right and so it's a it's a process what how
long does it take typically i i'm sure
it varies wildly but if i on average for a
song that you're gonna run with it like all right i've got
my song right at least the idea to it has
been mastered like what is a typical length of
(14:12):
time i don't i
don't even know if there is a typical length you know i think maybe
the fastest song we did was note
to self came together pretty fast so that
was like we wrote that song in like
30 minutes it was one of those and then we
(14:33):
got like the rough demo done that day where it's
basically what it is now on the album we have like three different versions
of that one yeah well yeah we had the riley version yeah but do you remember
the first song you ever wrote like even as a kid whatever do you remember the lyrics to it yeah it's.
(14:55):
Jesus your light in all the darkness jesus your love gives us freedom because
you are lord jesus you are mine how old were you when you were singing man that's
the new single coming next week.
When did you write that i think i
(15:16):
was like 12 or 13 something like that but i love that
too and that like you know there's a part of it that you
know that has stuck with you even the process of putting something together
you still know it yeah I'm curious with that
you actually because you went to a it's a it's a worship song
more or less you haven't written in the
professional career a technically a worship song thus far right is is there
(15:40):
a specific genre that's hard like you got worship music you have it could be
a ballad Christmas song what do you there's something in in the writing structure
that you find the most difficult to do or,
Maybe because you haven't done it yet. It's too challenging.
I think whatever it takes might be the... It's not a worship song,
but it's the closest I've come as far as lyrical content.
(16:04):
I see worship song as I'm surrendering, and this is something we can all sing together.
But a Christmas song... I mean, I've always wanted to do Christmas shoes.
I would love to hear the Stephen Stanley Christmas. We might actually return
the song back to radio. We actually took that off radio a long time ago. That's good.
(16:28):
We're with you, yeah. Dude, I was at a writer's round in Nashville,
and there was a gospel singer there.
And he's like, y'all, I'm about to sing. This is my favorite Christmas song of all time.
I think it is the best Christmas song of all time. And I said,
Christmas shoes in the mic.
And it got a little laugh. People were like, okay. okay.
(16:50):
And then after a guy walked up to me, he's like, Hey man, I forget his name,
but he's like, I actually wrote Christmas.
I was like, Oh man. Hey, no, no.
Billy Smiley. Is that what it was? I forget the new song.
Yeah. He was in new song. I forget. Yeah. Yeah.
It's one of the things that I've learned on, on the radio side of things is
(17:14):
if you want to make a connection,
really be a personality on the air, you make a stand on something and
you find the right way and the right thing so a long time ago we've
made it a thing and every christmas we we don't
just not play the song we go out of
our way to rewrite it to tell everybody that we're
not playing the song we i'm not kidding we had billboards this
last year digital billboards that said all your christmas favorites except
(17:37):
christmas shoes on it and so just like just just gonna own it man i'm just gonna
own it well i find it you know part of songwriting as well you reference whatever
it takes again at the end of whatever it takes the words are out there the song's
done but it's the music that's involved that makes it work you actually pull back,
(17:58):
It's like almost you could take your Ted T moment, you pull back all the instruments
and it's just your vocal.
I think to me that's what sells the song, is the ending, the closer of it because
it's so unique. What brought you to that?
Dude, I don't even know.
(18:18):
It just made sense, I think, because we had that big chorus.
Chorus 2 was really big and had the full production even bigger than Chorus
1. And then we went into this big oh section where we go like eight bars.
We're just singing. Oh, it's like it's a youtube concert and then I think it
just made sense to do something intimate at the end and,
(18:41):
like those lyrics are like there's some of my favorite lyrics on the record and,
I think we just wanted to focus in a little bit at the
end But then I was shocked where I posted the
end on tiktok and instagram Instagram there's things
like you write songs you never know like what people are going to
respond to and what they aren't going to so I posted just
(19:01):
the end of the song and people started like asking for the whole
song to be like that so we released the acoustic version of
whatever it takes so yeah no it's cool
it's cool you say that so I'm I'm curious this is going to be the the cynical
question because it comes up and I think it especially comes up in Christian
music music and i think some of the background for this is because right around
(19:23):
2000 as we kind of transitioned 2000 early 2000s there was this whole shift
aaron and i have talked about it many many times.
From what christian music was it was all
over the place and it became a little more streamlined and there
was a number of reasons we have to get into all of it but worship became
a really big push in mainstream christian around that time
and there's artists that i've talked to that
(19:45):
said their label came to them artists who were not worship artists
they weren't known as that said hey we need you to do a worship project
and i and i feel like maybe you have sense and there's
kind kind of this lingering thing just like from the
outside looking in oh is that how it works is it is it the label is just telling
you what to write and what to do what what has your been experience been with
(20:07):
that you want the honest answer or like yes honest answer i think what happened
with christian music is christian music stopped caring about lost people.
Wow that's really interesting i think there is worship music like,
mav city i think made an impact with some people
(20:28):
in the culture i don't know i see
that you know there were some people that like saying that their music is
like just beautiful to listen to but i
think there used to be this like oh there's
a christian alternative right like
you could listen to dc talk instead of you know
limp biscuit or whoever yeah true you'd see
(20:49):
those charts at the christian bookstore yep so i
think that's that's something i i really care
about and that's why i did a bunch of covers on tiktok
and you know non-christian songs and then
now i'm doing my own music where hopefully i can
reach people that that don't believe in jesus or
what what does the label say to you yeah does
(21:11):
does that happen now like is that is that a thing today where
labels are being like shaping what the artists are
doing dude i hear horror stories all the
time of like labels being controlling
i'll say this my label is not i think at the beginning there was some trouble
because it wasn't them i didn't know who i was yeah i needed to i actually needed
(21:36):
to make make an album to figure out what I sound like and what I want to say.
I knew I wanted to make music.
I don't know. I just didn't know what it sounded like. So through the album,
I mean, most of the label didn't hear my album until it was done.
There was like one person, Josh Bailey, who that's, that's kind of a normal thing,
but, but normally like a few people will kind of like check it and see how it
(22:00):
I think you pointed something out good to, for any of the cynics out there that
are kind of in that space, that that's important.
Cause we've also talked to, at least I've heard from a few like A&R guys who
that these are the people who are like artists development. development and
those who even work with somebody who may have just signed a record deal,
but you're not going to hear anything from them for two more years because there's a development time.
(22:22):
And in that, in those spaces, that makes a lot of sense because that person
is brand new oftentimes to that world. How does the process work?
And, and so in that case, there's wisdom from a label or from a person who's
been in the industry that can say,
here are the things that work or don't work, Not in a way that determines their
art per se, but helps them to understand the most smooth process for them as
(22:47):
an artist, if that makes sense. Does that sound right?
Yeah, totally. I think my perspective when I came into Christian music,
and I've always known I wanted to make Christian music, there is an easy way
and there's a hard way to do this.
So I'll name I'll name a great example of someone who
did it the long way and now they have a super
(23:10):
successful career is for King country like their
climb looked like this like it was slow and they didn't compromise on the music
and they wrote songs that they love whether you like their music or not like
they stick to like what they want to say and what they want to sound like and
then you can go the other way where you just.
(23:31):
And maybe you write songs naturally like that, where they're just super poppy
and they're super catchy, like right off the bat.
And you kind of go like this. But the advice I was given, especially just for
the music I make, is that you want to see this. You want it to be slow.
You don't want to see a big old jump.
(23:51):
And you're there. Once you jump, the one song hits the bar and everything else.
Nobody cares afterwards.
Yeah, it's true. For people's reference, for King & Country,
they've had what, is it eight or nine? Nine number one songs in a row?
That's about right. Keep going, and who knows what's next.
Stephen Stanley's the one who's next. I was curious, on this album and your
(24:13):
EP that you put out that's, this is out there for professional for everybody to hear you.
Out of all of those songs you've written as a songwriter, what's the one that
defines Stephen Stanley so far?
What's the one that says, hey, you know what, this is, if there's a song I want
people able to know who i am out of everything i've written thus far this is it which one is that
(24:33):
i would i would say i would say whatever it takes i
really would not just because we're you know talking about it
going to radio but it is the song i'm most proud of and the song i didn't know
i didn't know if people were gonna like it because it it is sort of it's not
the odd one out on the record because it's still got the rock edge to it but
(24:53):
yeah it's it's the song i'm most most most proud of?
I think, even your softer stuff, I mean, I don't want to discount that,
although whatever it takes is like probably my favorite, but like the one that
you co-wrote with Bear Reinhart from Need to Breathe.
I think it's a pretty clever song on its own. That's pretty.
Those are my favorite days of all time to writing.
(25:14):
What is that? What is that like? You, you go into a studio writing a song with,
you know, one of your legends, the guys that you grew up that you're like,
whoa, like bear Reinhardt.
I was nervous.
Cause that there's that whole phrase, like don't meet your heroes, like all that.
But he is like super, not what I expected. Very like soft spoken, like super humble dude.
(25:38):
Very nice and then brilliant like on
the fly with warrants and stuff like it was i learned
actually learned a lot just being there and he he taught me a
lot of stuff it was really cool and gave me advice i don't
know what the deal is with some like christian
artists i've met but it's sort of
like they're a little bit like closed off like they
(25:59):
don't really want to give you advice you know we
will now name them all but bear
was giving me like like crazy parts
he's like hey if you find out that the audience loves when you do this
in the pre-chorus don't stop doing that keep figuring out
ways to do that he's like if they like it okay that's great
(26:19):
also speaks i think to the passion of that artist because
you know somebody who sure they've they've
had huge success but it's not like they
the success has gotten in the way the passion so somebody
who's still like that willing to sit like well steven's newer
guy but i'll yeah i'm gonna help you and i'm gonna you
know and give wisdom and share what he's learned and stuff
(26:40):
i i love hearing that sort of thing yeah man so all
right we kind of have a little bit of an idea we know that writing a song can
vary quite a bit probably artist to artist but there is a little bit there that
as far as team efforts and the people that go into the project and depending
on the song whether it's It's music or lyrics that come first. So yeah.
(27:03):
Maybe we can try this. We wanted to see if we could come up,
follow some of these steps, maybe that you've used or that work best for you.
So we've got the team effort thing. And we came up with an idea for a song.
That's all we have. We don't have lyrics. We have an idea or possibly a title.
And that is, I don't want to turn and greet my neighbor.
(27:24):
And speaking, at least for me as an introvert every time in the church service
when that part comes before you sit down why don't you turn and greet your neighbor
i don't want to steven i don't want to turn and greet my neighbor,
and i'm trying to think of a way we could express those feelings through song where do we start,
(27:45):
yeah well you gotta start with a melody right yes yeah Yeah.
So now I want to ask you this. You've led worship, I'm assuming, at church before?
Oh, yeah, I do. I still do every week. Okay. So I lead worship at church as
well. And this is the one thing I tell the audience to do.
(28:06):
So I'm sure you've probably told the audience to do the same thing.
So now you and I are responsible for these words. So here we go.
I don't want to greet my neighbor. Something like that.
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah See, all right, you've already taken out some of our words.
So that's we've we've muted some words. It's great I don't want to greet my neighbor.
(28:29):
I don't want to agree my neighbor His hands look cold.
Do you have to do you have to rhyme does every word have to rhyme that's a good
question Yeah, you can't you I think I think with that melody Yeah,
I don't want to greet my neighbor His hands are cold,
something about bad
(28:51):
breath probably yeah his hands are cold
and his breath is bad yeah his breath
oh yeah there we go hands are cold breath is bad hands are cold from child labor
no no no i'm just trying to find words that rhymed and it's part of the creative
process man yeah and start with the melody and the chorus typically is that
(29:14):
kind of what we're gonna that we're going to base it on?
I start with a verse. You got to get the verse. Okay. Oh, verse.
Verse is what you want first.
If you listen to, this is the thing. I heard this.
I took Hans Zimmer's masterclass, which if you want to write music or anything,
I highly suggest you watch.
But he said, the Indiana Jones theme. Everybody knows.
(29:37):
Yep. But if you go to the B section of that theme,
it makes it, maybe it's not as recognizable but
it makes the main theme shine yeah okay it makes there's all kinds of nostalgia
on the b-side too so i always start with verse if i can all right i i like that
a lot all right can this be cheesy yes yeah well i mean as long as it's cheesy from the heart man,
(30:03):
i'm just thinking there's a lot of there's a lot of my my heart and soul i think
on this topic and And so I don't want to greet my neighbor.
Here we go.
We can repeat the first line if you want to. Okay. I don't want to greet my neighbor.
Music.
His hands look cold and his breath is black.
(30:27):
I want to learn more about my faith. No, I don't.
I don't want to greet my neighbor. Something like that. Okay.
I really like that. I don't want to, so one more time. I don't want to greet
my neighbor. And I'm glad I don't want to shake his hand.
His hands. His hands are bad. Breath is bad.
(30:49):
Breath is bad. I just want to meet my savior. I just want to learn more about my savior.
I don't mind that as a cheesy Christian line though, because you know,
it's not that I don't want to go to church.
I just don't want to greet the people next to me. Yeah, that's great.
That's what it's about. We've established a good baseline Should that next The
(31:10):
question is does that next line Rhyme with bad It should,
It could or you could You could kind of end it like I'm trying to bow on the
verse With repeating the first line Okay So you could,
oh wait here we go yeah all right here so we can rhyme with bad here okay so
(31:33):
we go i don't want to be mad his hands are cold and his breath is bad.
I just want to learn about my savior the greed in my name would make me sad,
oh it makes me sad chorus chorus
(31:53):
okay all right
so i think we've got it there do we want to shoot for
a chorus on that for a chorus yeah so that scene so the
idea the chorus is the idea i don't want to greet my neighbors because i
just want to be at church i want to worship god i want to
learn maybe draw a picture of that moment the
fear that strikes my heart when you when the worship leader
(32:14):
says it like you know what's coming keep talking
it's so okay so in
that moment like i just want to sit it down i don't
want to turn my or i know what's coming next wait
a second hold on a second i just had this vision but my hands were free so i
could serve the king but now you want me to turn and greet my neighbor i i've
(32:36):
got my hands in my pockets oh wait we go my hands.
Okay hold up all right i'm gonna i'll i'll sing
this to you guys i won't tell you as i'm writing then as he does that
as we're talking about this i'm imagining
(32:57):
this is exactly how all writing sessions go yeah you
gotta make in a room with writers right and
this is this is what's going on i'm just i'm curious though
i you know i love how from that it's a
short verse goes right into the chorus makes me think about
do you ever think that this needs to be a radio song
so i have have to get this within three minutes is that a
(33:17):
thing yeah i guess it is
a thing okay well are you talking about getting to the chorus quick
is that what you're talking about yeah yeah the idea to get the chorus quick
obviously we're trying to write this pretty quick as possible but right well
yeah i mean you don't always write them quick but no yeah actually i don't like
when songs take too long to get the chorus either i want them to get you get
(33:38):
right there that's a a Beatles thing. Gotta get him there.
So, My hands were sweet, but now they stink.
That guy's hands were really dirty. I don't want to sit next to that guy at all now.
(34:01):
So, I've written a few songs. They've never gone anywhere except at my church.
But what I'll do is I'll come up with a chorus and I really like the melody or like this.
I'll start with the verse and then I realize, no, that verse turns out to be the chorus.
Is that a typical thing that happens with songwriters?
(34:21):
Yeah, totally. There's, I think.
Clammy, by the way. I like the word clammy. Clammy. You know what you'd normally
do, too, if we were like in an official song, right?
Yeah. We do a Google Doc, and that way we all see what each other's writing.
And I learned something. My first songwriting in Nashville, a guy drew a line
(34:44):
on the Google Doc and put No Judgy Zone above it.
And so everything you write there, nobody can do it. All right. Yeah.
That's my childhood. Great lyrics have come from there because you're setting
up your boundaries, I guess.
Is that a common thing then, too? So I forget.
We talked to somebody else. I think it might have been Scott Cash about this,
(35:05):
how when you're writing, I always visualize that everybody's at a cafe or they're
around a table and it's real intense.
But sometimes it's just you're on Zoom or you're just doing a document and it's
a little more casual that way.
Yeah. I do Zoom writes. One guy, Paul Duncan, who I wrote half my record with,
was mostly on Zoom, except for a couple.
(35:27):
But yeah, I like when it's a little bit more fast-paced. sometimes like there
there are those slow guys who are brilliant but i can't i gotta like yeah,
yeah yeah they don't have time i gotta write 324 more
songs i like the pressure like if i've got some
pressure and i'll i'll write fast steven come on then what do you got what do
you got man what do you got i was gonna ask one other thing about songwriting
(35:48):
though when when it comes to money yeah you got a great song how does it work
like your name's at the top you get more money or is it does everybody get the
same amount if you're writing it with four guys three guys how does that work?
Typically, at least in Nashville, I don't know how it works in LA.
Apparently, there's a different system there, but,
If you're writing with three people, you all get an equal cut.
(36:11):
Okay. So like 33 and a third is, is what everybody gets.
If someone is like walks in and changes a word, like down the road,
if they weren't in the room for like the original, right.
Or they change something that's like, you know, I don't know,
maybe a court change or, or anything like we would throw them like 5% or something
just, just to like add there or like 2%. So yeah, it just depends, you know?
(36:37):
A lot with whatever it takes it went through so many i originally
wrote it with my two friends judd and zach just the
three of us and then we added paul who
is in la and he helped shape some
things and then ted ted was my producer was just in the room every time we were
writing the song so it's just like yeah we'll just equal maybe that's maybe
(36:58):
the trick there you took dc talks producer yeah he's produced like everyone
yeah that's my personal favorite that he's done is is the first couple of Mutemath records.
Oh, yes. Yeah. Which used to be, if I'm not mistaken, was that Earthsuit? Earthsuit.
Yes, yeah, I think so. We actually had the drummer, oh, what's his name?
(37:19):
Darren King on Taking It Back. Like, that was him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There you go. That was the drummer? That was the drummer. Oh,
and you have him on your, that's so amazing.
Oh, yeah. All right, let's see what you have, by the way. I'm curious. Okay, all right.
I've only got the first line. That's all right.
You said it. I want my hands to be free. That's the first line of the chorus.
(37:41):
That's where I stopped and started talking.
Okay, okay, okay. Well, let's hear that. Let's hear what you got and maybe we can finish that.
I think I want to make this guy or this person be like Howie Mandel and be like
a germaphobe. Yeah, okay.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Inject some character into this person.
Now we can visualize who he is.
(38:02):
Maybe something about thinking about where the hand sanitizer is.
Yeah and sanitizer just out of reach i should have worn i should have worn my
gloves today i need it's okay i want my hands to be free i'm not standing up
for my seat i need to sanitize.
(38:23):
Don't you something with i like somebody like giving you that like the dirty
eye the side eye side eye that's what works that eye that's the guy who likes
his hands free oh there we go I want my hands to be free I'm not standing up
for my seat I need to sanitize don't give me the side eye that side eye,
cause I'm the guy who likes my hands free that guy,
(38:47):
this is fun this is a good like exercise so here's what I as you type that here's
what we should do if you're willing when we wrap up recording for the podcast,
to hit record on your side and just give us,
record cause we're on zoom right now you record the song and we'll put it here
in the end of the podcast what do you think all right you can jazz it up with
(39:09):
some effect you do whatever you want with it yeah.
I need to sanitize don't give me that side,
(39:31):
Something like that. So we make it kind of Muppets-ish.
Yeah, kind of, yeah. Everywhere you look. Everywhere you look.
Music.
(40:29):
Else that comes to mind for as we finish that part
up the aspiring songwriter that
we've missed or that we haven't covered in whether it's
a practical side to writing or an
maybe it's just an encouragement to those that are wanting
to figure it out or you know get better
at it yeah i mean the biggest advice
(40:50):
is every person at every level of songwriting
we all deal with the
same fear and it's the blank page with with
nothing on it so it's really
just about sitting down and doing it and just
writing and seeing what happens that's all you can do we and everybody
at every level deals with that fear so well i
(41:11):
gotta say i want to say thank you to not being
the generic songwriter thanks for
in the christian alternative i put that giant quotes quotes
a set of things you just write in some music as
a christian that speaks of your
faith and that to me that's what changed my
life growing up as a kid yeah and to know
(41:32):
that that kind of stuff is still around is awesome yeah man absolutely changed
my life too man remember that represents you and that's i think people connect
with it because it's very authentic what's the who's the songwriter or artist
that that really affected you the most Probably John Foreman,
Probably every kid my age Would probably say John Foreman Yeah.
(41:56):
Him for sure I want to be fair, I never liked Beautiful Letdown,
And then I heard the Jonas Brothers do their version. And I think that's the
greatest. That song's so good now.
I don't know how Switchfoot would feel about that. Because I heard the song.
I have heard it. And it is good. Sorry, John, if you're listening.
Dude, I don't agree on that one particularly. I think Switchfoot still holds.
(42:18):
I think that's the best version.
But John Bellion might have beat their Meant to Live, I think. Really?
I don't know. Well, dude, I can't listen to Meant to Live. I physically can't
like my I'm deaf in my left ear.
So I don't know what you guys are here. So how'd that happen?
(42:41):
Yeah, I was in a jet ski accident when I was nine.
And yeah, now people think I'm a jerk.
But as a songwriter and singer, look, that's that's incredible because you have
to work harder than everybody else. Well, Stephen, thank you for all of your time.
I think it really opens up a little bit of that world.
(43:04):
I always, at least to me, because I was never around it, songwriting was just
this mysterious thing and not realizing how much went into it.
But I also appreciate hearing that, you know, there is a lot of allowance in
the professional world to write the way that you write, you know,
and that it's not like a controlling environment.
But because the best art is going to come from people that, you know,
(43:26):
are writing genuinely, of course.
So thank you for taking the time for sharing with us, man. Really appreciate it.
And thank you guys for like tamping in whatever it takes, too. too.
I mean, I know it's not your typical, you know, sort of Christian radio song.
And I think it's awesome that you guys are like, kind of carrying the torch
(43:48):
with it. It used to be the Christian radio song.
It used to be that. That's what I grew up listening to on Christian radio.
Maybe this is the start of something new.
And for anybody listening, you know, whenever you might hear this podcast,
as of this recording, The reason we've been talking a lot about that is we actually,
the radio station that our day
job, our show that we do Monday through Friday, got to do the premiere,
(44:13):
the world radio premiere of Whatever It Takes here on Life FM.
So honored to get to do that. And man, I couldn't have chosen a better song
to get that opportunity for. So thank you.
Well, Consider It Joy is a production of 88.3 Life FM out of Bakersfield,
California, where you can listen to us there every weekday, as I mentioned,
on the 88.3 Life FM app. app.
(44:33):
Also find all the ways to listen and connect at consider it joy podcast.com.
And if you'll be so kind, if you enjoyed this episode or any of the other episodes
to hit subscribe, share those five-star ratings, help us out a ton as well to
get the word out. Steven, thanks for being here, man.
Absolutely. You're good. You're good. You're good. Thank you guys. I don't.
(44:57):
Music.
Hey, it's Matt, co-host of Consider It Joy. And before we jump into today's
episode, which I am crazy excited about, I wanted to welcome you for those of
you that are new to the podcast. Thanks for listening.
Myself, my co-host Aaron, we are radio DJs. That's our day job.
And this is an extension of the show. And because of what we do,
songwriting comes up a lot.
(00:20):
All these different processes that go into creating a song.
So we wanted to dedicate an episode to that specifically. Even my 11-year-old
has been trying to write some songs.
So that's why we invited recording artist Stephen Stanley onto the show with us.
We're going to talk about what that process is, what it looks like in the professional
world, and then make sure you stick around to the end.
(00:42):
Because we are going to attempt something we've never done before,
which is in real time, write a song with Stephen.
And by the end of the podcast, have a written and recorded version of that song.
I think you guys are going to love it. Stick around. round this is considerate joy.
(01:02):
See if it sparks joy because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance,
well welcome back this is consider it joy the official podcast of 88.3 life
FM and we are so excited about this episode so we always every episode we try
(01:23):
to take a theme or a topic and then then often invite a guest in who's really
familiar with that topic.
So this one made a lot of sense, Aaron, because you know, at the end of this
last year, we did an episode or 2023 rewind talked about the top movies,
moments, and music of the year.
And through that podcast, go back and listen to it, but we'll spoil a little
bit of it, which is we chose our top three albums.
(01:46):
And without talking to each other. And in the end, as we revealed them on that
podcast, one album stood out as our favorite of the entire year,
which was Divided Frame of Mind.
Stephen Stanley. And so he's a new artist.
But his songs just came out rocking hard. Not just rocking, but the words are good.
Put the, he has that late 90s, early 2000 rock edge to it.
(02:10):
Yeah, but with a depth, I think, and a connection that came with it.
And so we decided if we wanted to do a podcast
about songwriting we should probably go to the guy who
we loved his songs the most so we stalked him and found
where he lived and we got him to join us no we didn't really find out where
he lived but we'll ask you later steven stanley joining us what's up how y'all
(02:32):
doing man we're excited to have you on i know we've kind of said this before
and we're not trying to make it awkward for you but that's not blowing smoke
We really we really love the album so much.
And so we're just excited to have you here to talk about songwriting.
And here's kind of what the goal I'm thinking, Stephen, if you're down with
this, I want us to kind of maybe cover some bases, give an idea of especially
(02:56):
songwriting on the perspective of somebody with a record label.
And this is your profession.
And then through that, let's see if we can develop by the end of this podcast,
by the time we're done and we hit stop, we have created a song.
So we use some of the methods that we can learn from you on songwriting and just see what happens.
(03:17):
Maybe, maybe even see if it's good enough. We'll have you perform it at the
end of the show. All right.
It'll be your next single after the current one. It might be. It might be.
I don't know. Oh, well, I want to before we even talk about what that song would
title would be that we're going to work on.
Let's talk about your current single that's coming out. We had the chance to world premiere this.
(03:39):
We were so excited. It's called Whatever It Takes.
And I remember when I first heard it.
Like it got me to work out. Like I was just working out and I was just, I'm in the gym.
It's like 6am in the morning. And that song comes on. I'm like, what is this?
And I was just, I could not stop listening to it. One, it's got the driving
music, but the words really connected.
(04:01):
Tell us what, what's that song about?
Yeah. So I wrote it actually. So this is, this is actually weird.
The song that got me a record deal is actually called whatever it takes.
But it is a completely different
song so that that was a while ago but we
actually never ended up releasing it but whatever
(04:24):
it takes is a song about redemption
it's also a song about self-worth and
and longing for change and and
god being the true change in someone's
life and in my life and I was talking
to you guys earlier I wrote like so many different versions of
this song and I wrote it with a few of my friends and we
(04:47):
wrote like nine different versions of the chorus and the perspective used to
be different used to be me talking to someone but when I made it personal and
and made it me sort of talking to Jesus the song sort of came alive and it's
you know it's the power The power of the song,
I think, comes from the self-worth.
(05:10):
When we find our self-worth in ourselves or in our successes or failures,
I think our worth, our self-worth can tend to just not last.
But when we find our worth in Christ, our worth is infinite because he is worthy.
He's infinitely worthy.
So that's really where the heart of the song is.
(05:32):
So I want to take your theme there, and it was perspective. That's what changed
the way that the song is written for you.
So let's take that. So looking at the perspective of it. Yeah.
Well, and even maybe, maybe as a start to give us a little bit of a layout,
because I, I feel like anytime we've talked to people about songwriting,
there are, it's so wildly different between people, how that process works as
(05:56):
we get into the perspective and all of these things, is there even a way you
would be able to kind of give an overview,
look at how a song is written, you know, does maybe like the nuts and bolts side of things.
So you have you have a record contract now you're just writing or they're writing
what is kind of an maybe an overview and then we can dig a little bit more into
(06:18):
the details yeah this might sound strange but a lot of my creative process is
like the film director martin sporsady.
So he is all about you have
like your first idea and then that idea goes through like a whole evolution
and by the end it's something it could be something totally different so that
(06:40):
that was the case with whatever it takes and it was the case with probably 70
percent of the songs on the album where i had the original idea then maybe i revisited it like,
six months later or a year later, and it's just something completely different.
So the actual process, my process is just pure chaos.
At least for making the album, it was totally random.
(07:05):
It's like, okay, it's four o'clock in the morning, and I woke up randomly and now I'm writing a song.
So I don't have any instruments, I'm just writing stuff.
I'm in the car and I'm voicing the morning stuff. So I've found recently,
probably in the past four months, as I've started to get ready for what's next,
(07:25):
it's like, what's first, the production or the actual writing?
Yeah. So I found with the more heartfelt mid-tempo songs, I like to start on just a guitar or a piano.
But if I want like a really upbeat like
rocking song or something that's like kind of dark or like
(07:46):
you know sort of that 90s 2000s rock I want to start with
the track first so figure out what that is and
then sort of write around it so that's been sorry do
you find yourself flipping it down the road because you say you you may come
back to it like six months later and that melodic song is now a rocker right
yeah I could anything is possible really but I like I like the freedom and I
(08:11):
like to work with people that give me that freedom because some people you work with,
it's like very rigid and it's like, no, we started on this path and we're not
changing until, you know, we're going to fulfill that.
Because you work with people, does the label say to you, you have to have these
many songs written by a certain point in time? Is there a contract for that?
(08:31):
Yeah. So I think in my publishing contract, I have to write 12 songs in an album
cycle, which for me, it's like I wrote 300 songs for my first album cycle. So it's fine.
That doesn't bother me. But yeah, 12 songs is actually not that many now that
I think about it. But yeah. Yeah.
So from a practical standpoint, then, because I'm also kind of thinking in mind
(08:55):
for there may be some people that stumble across this episode that are they want to be songwriters.
They're trying to understand the process. So even in the professional world,
it sounds like there's not necessarily a streamlined process that,
well, I'm on a label now. So it's ABC.
It's still your individualized process that works for you.
Is that does that seem true? yeah totally i think one
(09:16):
process that works for no matter
who you are it's probably the best advice i got
was from actually i didn't meet him this
is just him on a podcast but it's ed sheeran he said songwriting is kind of
like a water filter the more you do it you know and just start you start to
filter out all the bad songs and then all of a sudden the pure stuff starts
(09:37):
coming so So it's really the more you do it, which sounds like, just start writing.
But that's really a big part of it, is you just have to start and write and write and write.
I did, I think in 2017 or 2018, I was working with a producer here in Atlanta.
And the challenge was that we were going to make this EP and then go to Nashville
(10:01):
and show some label people and industry people.
The challenge was write a song every day, no matter if it's terrible.
Or it could, and it could be great. Who knows? But write a song every day.
And I did that year. I wrote a song every day and there's a lot of bad songs.
When I talked with Andrew rip and Andrew, Andrew rip, he had said to,
(10:23):
if you're going to write a song or if you have something in your head,
that like, this sounds good.
Then to sing it into your phone. Cause you're always walking with a recording device.
And then I asked him, well, how many songs do you have on your phone that we've
never heard? And it was just incredible.
Do you have anything like that? Oh, yeah.
(10:44):
I've got, let's see. So voice memos.
Yeah, it looks like there's 2,300 voice memos.
And then there's, this is the other one. So I've got all my demos.
And these are like full, like made songs. That no one's heard.
That no one's well i guess the album's on youtube yeah demos i've got 616 demos wow.
(11:10):
Yeah so yeah all of
a sudden the 12 songs not not not such a big deal right
so what is i think one of the things maybe
a lot of people may not realize especially casual music fans
on on this side of thing is how often it's a
team effort now it's easy to look at like the grammys just
took place and you just you see the artists be like oh that's their song and
(11:32):
you don't maybe think twice about the fact that there's a team with them
or even a group of writers why
why is that the case how how does that become a
thing where because you write with some of your friends and things why is that
a common thing that it's a team of people yeah it takes a village that was one
of the first things i learned when i started making music not even just professionally
(11:54):
just Just being in the studio and being around music, it takes a village.
I mean, I've devoted my life to writing and singing and also producing.
So those are my three things that I try and get better at.
But my friend Zach, who wrote Whatever It Takes With Me, his whole life has been guitar.
(12:16):
So he's been dedicated. And I don't want to play guitar on my record.
I want him to play guitar on my record. so yeah he's
also a great like melody writer and everything else but different people
have different strengths and if there
are certain people that can do it all on their own and i'm
just not one of those people so it sounds like that's also a job for everybody
(12:40):
if you're willing to write if you're gonna do with people you'd be willing to
the idea that you feel like you're sold on yet do you ever feel like you have
to be willing to let that idea go in order for it to work,
Yeah, totally. I mean, that's what a good producer does. That's what I've learned
from Ted T. He mutes stuff.
When we get down to it, when we recorded all of our ideas and everything,
(13:04):
he just starts muting everything. What do we not need?
Same with lyrics. It's like, do we need to say this? Do we need a bridge here?
Or can we just sing, whoa? Is that what we're feeling right now?
It's simple. Well, I think about when I was younger and not realizing that you
have different skill sets and different talents that go into it.
The things that you're talking about, somebody that's just really good at playing
(13:27):
whatever, or maybe it's the way that you put all those pieces together or the
person that's just writing comes naturally or communicating a truth in simple words or the producer.
And so when you start thinking of it that way, you realize, oh,
it actually makes sense that this is a whole team thing, because it is very,
especially as you get into the professional realm, very focused art forms.
(13:51):
Each one in their own right.
Right and so it's a it's a process what how
long does it take typically i i'm sure
it varies wildly but if i on average for a
song that you're gonna run with it like all right i've got
my song right at least the idea to it has
been mastered like what is a typical length of
(14:12):
time i don't i
don't even know if there is a typical length you know i think maybe
the fastest song we did was note
to self came together pretty fast so that
was like we wrote that song in like
30 minutes it was one of those and then we
(14:33):
got like the rough demo done that day where it's
basically what it is now on the album we have like three different versions
of that one yeah well yeah we had the riley version yeah but do you remember
the first song you ever wrote like even as a kid whatever do you remember the lyrics to it yeah it's.
(14:55):
Jesus your light in all the darkness jesus your love gives us freedom because
you are lord jesus you are mine how old were you when you were singing man that's
the new single coming next week.
When did you write that i think i
(15:16):
was like 12 or 13 something like that but i love that
too and that like you know there's a part of it that you
know that has stuck with you even the process of putting something together
you still know it yeah I'm curious with that
you actually because you went to a it's a it's a worship song
more or less you haven't written in the
professional career a technically a worship song thus far right is is there
(15:40):
a specific genre that's hard like you got worship music you have it could be
a ballad Christmas song what do you there's something in in the writing structure
that you find the most difficult to do or,
Maybe because you haven't done it yet. It's too challenging.
I think whatever it takes might be the... It's not a worship song,
but it's the closest I've come as far as lyrical content.
(16:04):
I see worship song as I'm surrendering, and this is something we can all sing together.
But a Christmas song... I mean, I've always wanted to do Christmas shoes.
I would love to hear the Stephen Stanley Christmas. We might actually return
the song back to radio. We actually took that off radio a long time ago. That's good.
(16:28):
We're with you, yeah. Dude, I was at a writer's round in Nashville,
and there was a gospel singer there.
And he's like, y'all, I'm about to sing. This is my favorite Christmas song of all time.
I think it is the best Christmas song of all time. And I said,
Christmas shoes in the mic.
And it got a little laugh. People were like, okay. okay.
(16:50):
And then after a guy walked up to me, he's like, Hey man, I forget his name,
but he's like, I actually wrote Christmas.
I was like, Oh man. Hey, no, no.
Billy Smiley. Is that what it was? I forget the new song.
Yeah. He was in new song. I forget. Yeah. Yeah.
It's one of the things that I've learned on, on the radio side of things is
(17:14):
if you want to make a connection,
really be a personality on the air, you make a stand on something and
you find the right way and the right thing so a long time ago we've
made it a thing and every christmas we we don't
just not play the song we go out of
our way to rewrite it to tell everybody that we're
not playing the song we i'm not kidding we had billboards this
last year digital billboards that said all your christmas favorites except
(17:37):
christmas shoes on it and so just like just just gonna own it man i'm just gonna
own it well i find it you know part of songwriting as well you reference whatever
it takes again at the end of whatever it takes the words are out there the song's
done but it's the music that's involved that makes it work you actually pull back,
(17:58):
It's like almost you could take your Ted T moment, you pull back all the instruments
and it's just your vocal.
I think to me that's what sells the song, is the ending, the closer of it because
it's so unique. What brought you to that?
Dude, I don't even know.
(18:18):
It just made sense, I think, because we had that big chorus.
Chorus 2 was really big and had the full production even bigger than Chorus
1. And then we went into this big oh section where we go like eight bars.
We're just singing. Oh, it's like it's a youtube concert and then I think it
just made sense to do something intimate at the end and,
(18:41):
like those lyrics are like there's some of my favorite lyrics on the record and,
I think we just wanted to focus in a little bit at the
end But then I was shocked where I posted the
end on tiktok and instagram Instagram there's things
like you write songs you never know like what people are going to
respond to and what they aren't going to so I posted just
(19:01):
the end of the song and people started like asking for the whole
song to be like that so we released the acoustic version of
whatever it takes so yeah no it's cool
it's cool you say that so I'm I'm curious this is going to be the the cynical
question because it comes up and I think it especially comes up in Christian
music music and i think some of the background for this is because right around
(19:23):
2000 as we kind of transitioned 2000 early 2000s there was this whole shift
aaron and i have talked about it many many times.
From what christian music was it was all
over the place and it became a little more streamlined and there
was a number of reasons we have to get into all of it but worship became
a really big push in mainstream christian around that time
and there's artists that i've talked to that
(19:45):
said their label came to them artists who were not worship artists
they weren't known as that said hey we need you to do a worship project
and i and i feel like maybe you have sense and there's
kind kind of this lingering thing just like from the
outside looking in oh is that how it works is it is it the label is just telling
you what to write and what to do what what has your been experience been with
(20:07):
that you want the honest answer or like yes honest answer i think what happened
with christian music is christian music stopped caring about lost people.
Wow that's really interesting i think there is worship music like,
mav city i think made an impact with some people
(20:28):
in the culture i don't know i see
that you know there were some people that like saying that their music is
like just beautiful to listen to but i
think there used to be this like oh there's
a christian alternative right like
you could listen to dc talk instead of you know
limp biscuit or whoever yeah true you'd see
(20:49):
those charts at the christian bookstore yep so i
think that's that's something i i really care
about and that's why i did a bunch of covers on tiktok
and you know non-christian songs and then
now i'm doing my own music where hopefully i can
reach people that that don't believe in jesus or
what what does the label say to you yeah does
(21:11):
does that happen now like is that is that a thing today where
labels are being like shaping what the artists are
doing dude i hear horror stories all the
time of like labels being controlling
i'll say this my label is not i think at the beginning there was some trouble
because it wasn't them i didn't know who i was yeah i needed to i actually needed
(21:36):
to make make an album to figure out what I sound like and what I want to say.
I knew I wanted to make music.
I don't know. I just didn't know what it sounded like. So through the album,
I mean, most of the label didn't hear my album until it was done.
There was like one person, Josh Bailey, who that's, that's kind of a normal thing,
but, but normally like a few people will kind of like check it and see how it
(22:00):
I think you pointed something out good to, for any of the cynics out there that
are kind of in that space, that that's important.
Cause we've also talked to, at least I've heard from a few like A&R guys who
that these are the people who are like artists development. development and
those who even work with somebody who may have just signed a record deal,
but you're not going to hear anything from them for two more years because there's a development time.
(22:22):
And in that, in those spaces, that makes a lot of sense because that person
is brand new oftentimes to that world. How does the process work?
And, and so in that case, there's wisdom from a label or from a person who's
been in the industry that can say,
here are the things that work or don't work, Not in a way that determines their
art per se, but helps them to understand the most smooth process for them as
(22:47):
an artist, if that makes sense. Does that sound right?
Yeah, totally. I think my perspective when I came into Christian music,
and I've always known I wanted to make Christian music, there is an easy way
and there's a hard way to do this.
So I'll name I'll name a great example of someone who
did it the long way and now they have a super
(23:10):
successful career is for King country like their
climb looked like this like it was slow and they didn't compromise on the music
and they wrote songs that they love whether you like their music or not like
they stick to like what they want to say and what they want to sound like and
then you can go the other way where you just.
(23:31):
And maybe you write songs naturally like that, where they're just super poppy
and they're super catchy, like right off the bat.
And you kind of go like this. But the advice I was given, especially just for
the music I make, is that you want to see this. You want it to be slow.
You don't want to see a big old jump.
(23:51):
And you're there. Once you jump, the one song hits the bar and everything else.
Nobody cares afterwards.
Yeah, it's true. For people's reference, for King & Country,
they've had what, is it eight or nine? Nine number one songs in a row?
That's about right. Keep going, and who knows what's next.
Stephen Stanley's the one who's next. I was curious, on this album and your
(24:13):
EP that you put out that's, this is out there for professional for everybody to hear you.
Out of all of those songs you've written as a songwriter, what's the one that
defines Stephen Stanley so far?
What's the one that says, hey, you know what, this is, if there's a song I want
people able to know who i am out of everything i've written thus far this is it which one is that
(24:33):
i would i would say i would say whatever it takes i
really would not just because we're you know talking about it
going to radio but it is the song i'm most proud of and the song i didn't know
i didn't know if people were gonna like it because it it is sort of it's not
the odd one out on the record because it's still got the rock edge to it but
(24:53):
yeah it's it's the song i'm most most most proud of?
I think, even your softer stuff, I mean, I don't want to discount that,
although whatever it takes is like probably my favorite, but like the one that
you co-wrote with Bear Reinhart from Need to Breathe.
I think it's a pretty clever song on its own. That's pretty.
Those are my favorite days of all time to writing.
(25:14):
What is that? What is that like? You, you go into a studio writing a song with,
you know, one of your legends, the guys that you grew up that you're like,
whoa, like bear Reinhardt.
I was nervous.
Cause that there's that whole phrase, like don't meet your heroes, like all that.
But he is like super, not what I expected. Very like soft spoken, like super humble dude.
(25:38):
Very nice and then brilliant like on
the fly with warrants and stuff like it was i learned
actually learned a lot just being there and he he taught me a
lot of stuff it was really cool and gave me advice i don't
know what the deal is with some like christian
artists i've met but it's sort of
like they're a little bit like closed off like they
(25:59):
don't really want to give you advice you know we
will now name them all but bear
was giving me like like crazy parts
he's like hey if you find out that the audience loves when you do this
in the pre-chorus don't stop doing that keep figuring out
ways to do that he's like if they like it okay that's great
(26:19):
also speaks i think to the passion of that artist because
you know somebody who sure they've they've
had huge success but it's not like they
the success has gotten in the way the passion so somebody
who's still like that willing to sit like well steven's newer
guy but i'll yeah i'm gonna help you and i'm gonna you
know and give wisdom and share what he's learned and stuff
(26:40):
i i love hearing that sort of thing yeah man so all
right we kind of have a little bit of an idea we know that writing a song can
vary quite a bit probably artist to artist but there is a little bit there that
as far as team efforts and the people that go into the project and depending
on the song whether it's It's music or lyrics that come first. So yeah.
(27:03):
Maybe we can try this. We wanted to see if we could come up,
follow some of these steps, maybe that you've used or that work best for you.
So we've got the team effort thing. And we came up with an idea for a song.
That's all we have. We don't have lyrics. We have an idea or possibly a title.
And that is, I don't want to turn and greet my neighbor.
(27:24):
And speaking, at least for me as an introvert every time in the church service
when that part comes before you sit down why don't you turn and greet your neighbor
i don't want to steven i don't want to turn and greet my neighbor,
and i'm trying to think of a way we could express those feelings through song where do we start,
(27:45):
yeah well you gotta start with a melody right yes yeah Yeah.
So now I want to ask you this. You've led worship, I'm assuming, at church before?
Oh, yeah, I do. I still do every week. Okay. So I lead worship at church as
well. And this is the one thing I tell the audience to do.
(28:06):
So I'm sure you've probably told the audience to do the same thing.
So now you and I are responsible for these words. So here we go.
I don't want to greet my neighbor. Something like that.
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah See, all right, you've already taken out some of our words.
So that's we've we've muted some words. It's great I don't want to greet my neighbor.
(28:29):
I don't want to agree my neighbor His hands look cold.
Do you have to do you have to rhyme does every word have to rhyme that's a good
question Yeah, you can't you I think I think with that melody Yeah,
I don't want to greet my neighbor His hands are cold,
something about bad
(28:51):
breath probably yeah his hands are cold
and his breath is bad yeah his breath
oh yeah there we go hands are cold breath is bad hands are cold from child labor
no no no i'm just trying to find words that rhymed and it's part of the creative
process man yeah and start with the melody and the chorus typically is that
(29:14):
kind of what we're gonna that we're going to base it on?
I start with a verse. You got to get the verse. Okay. Oh, verse.
Verse is what you want first.
If you listen to, this is the thing. I heard this.
I took Hans Zimmer's masterclass, which if you want to write music or anything,
I highly suggest you watch.
But he said, the Indiana Jones theme. Everybody knows.
(29:37):
Yep. But if you go to the B section of that theme,
it makes it, maybe it's not as recognizable but
it makes the main theme shine yeah okay it makes there's all kinds of nostalgia
on the b-side too so i always start with verse if i can all right i i like that
a lot all right can this be cheesy yes yeah well i mean as long as it's cheesy from the heart man,
(30:03):
i'm just thinking there's a lot of there's a lot of my my heart and soul i think
on this topic and And so I don't want to greet my neighbor.
Here we go.
We can repeat the first line if you want to. Okay. I don't want to greet my neighbor.
Music.
His hands look cold and his breath is black.
(30:27):
I want to learn more about my faith. No, I don't.
I don't want to greet my neighbor. Something like that. Okay.
I really like that. I don't want to, so one more time. I don't want to greet
my neighbor. And I'm glad I don't want to shake his hand.
His hands. His hands are bad. Breath is bad.
(30:49):
Breath is bad. I just want to meet my savior. I just want to learn more about my savior.
I don't mind that as a cheesy Christian line though, because you know,
it's not that I don't want to go to church.
I just don't want to greet the people next to me. Yeah, that's great.
That's what it's about. We've established a good baseline Should that next The
(31:10):
question is does that next line Rhyme with bad It should,
It could or you could You could kind of end it like I'm trying to bow on the
verse With repeating the first line Okay So you could,
oh wait here we go yeah all right here so we can rhyme with bad here okay so
(31:33):
we go i don't want to be mad his hands are cold and his breath is bad.
I just want to learn about my savior the greed in my name would make me sad,
oh it makes me sad chorus chorus
(31:53):
okay all right
so i think we've got it there do we want to shoot for
a chorus on that for a chorus yeah so that scene so the
idea the chorus is the idea i don't want to greet my neighbors because i
just want to be at church i want to worship god i want to
learn maybe draw a picture of that moment the
fear that strikes my heart when you when the worship leader
(32:14):
says it like you know what's coming keep talking
it's so okay so in
that moment like i just want to sit it down i don't
want to turn my or i know what's coming next wait
a second hold on a second i just had this vision but my hands were free so i
could serve the king but now you want me to turn and greet my neighbor i i've
(32:36):
got my hands in my pockets oh wait we go my hands.
Okay hold up all right i'm gonna i'll i'll sing
this to you guys i won't tell you as i'm writing then as he does that
as we're talking about this i'm imagining
(32:57):
this is exactly how all writing sessions go yeah you
gotta make in a room with writers right and
this is this is what's going on i'm just i'm curious though
i you know i love how from that it's a
short verse goes right into the chorus makes me think about
do you ever think that this needs to be a radio song
so i have have to get this within three minutes is that a
(33:17):
thing yeah i guess it is
a thing okay well are you talking about getting to the chorus quick
is that what you're talking about yeah yeah the idea to get the chorus quick
obviously we're trying to write this pretty quick as possible but right well
yeah i mean you don't always write them quick but no yeah actually i don't like
when songs take too long to get the chorus either i want them to get you get
(33:38):
right there that's a a Beatles thing. Gotta get him there.
So, My hands were sweet, but now they stink.
That guy's hands were really dirty. I don't want to sit next to that guy at all now.
(34:01):
So, I've written a few songs. They've never gone anywhere except at my church.
But what I'll do is I'll come up with a chorus and I really like the melody or like this.
I'll start with the verse and then I realize, no, that verse turns out to be the chorus.
Is that a typical thing that happens with songwriters?
(34:21):
Yeah, totally. There's, I think.
Clammy, by the way. I like the word clammy. Clammy. You know what you'd normally
do, too, if we were like in an official song, right?
Yeah. We do a Google Doc, and that way we all see what each other's writing.
And I learned something. My first songwriting in Nashville, a guy drew a line
(34:44):
on the Google Doc and put No Judgy Zone above it.
And so everything you write there, nobody can do it. All right. Yeah.
That's my childhood. Great lyrics have come from there because you're setting
up your boundaries, I guess.
Is that a common thing then, too? So I forget.
We talked to somebody else. I think it might have been Scott Cash about this,
(35:05):
how when you're writing, I always visualize that everybody's at a cafe or they're
around a table and it's real intense.
But sometimes it's just you're on Zoom or you're just doing a document and it's
a little more casual that way.
Yeah. I do Zoom writes. One guy, Paul Duncan, who I wrote half my record with,
was mostly on Zoom, except for a couple.
(35:27):
But yeah, I like when it's a little bit more fast-paced. sometimes like there
there are those slow guys who are brilliant but i can't i gotta like yeah,
yeah yeah they don't have time i gotta write 324 more
songs i like the pressure like if i've got some
pressure and i'll i'll write fast steven come on then what do you got what do
you got man what do you got i was gonna ask one other thing about songwriting
(35:48):
though when when it comes to money yeah you got a great song how does it work
like your name's at the top you get more money or is it does everybody get the
same amount if you're writing it with four guys three guys how does that work?
Typically, at least in Nashville, I don't know how it works in LA.
Apparently, there's a different system there, but,
If you're writing with three people, you all get an equal cut.
(36:11):
Okay. So like 33 and a third is, is what everybody gets.
If someone is like walks in and changes a word, like down the road,
if they weren't in the room for like the original, right.
Or they change something that's like, you know, I don't know,
maybe a court change or, or anything like we would throw them like 5% or something
just, just to like add there or like 2%. So yeah, it just depends, you know?
(36:37):
A lot with whatever it takes it went through so many i originally
wrote it with my two friends judd and zach just the
three of us and then we added paul who
is in la and he helped shape some
things and then ted ted was my producer was just in the room every time we were
writing the song so it's just like yeah we'll just equal maybe that's maybe
(36:58):
the trick there you took dc talks producer yeah he's produced like everyone
yeah that's my personal favorite that he's done is is the first couple of Mutemath records.
Oh, yes. Yeah. Which used to be, if I'm not mistaken, was that Earthsuit? Earthsuit.
Yes, yeah, I think so. We actually had the drummer, oh, what's his name?
(37:19):
Darren King on Taking It Back. Like, that was him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There you go. That was the drummer? That was the drummer. Oh,
and you have him on your, that's so amazing.
Oh, yeah. All right, let's see what you have, by the way. I'm curious. Okay, all right.
I've only got the first line. That's all right.
You said it. I want my hands to be free. That's the first line of the chorus.
(37:41):
That's where I stopped and started talking.
Okay, okay, okay. Well, let's hear that. Let's hear what you got and maybe we can finish that.
I think I want to make this guy or this person be like Howie Mandel and be like
a germaphobe. Yeah, okay.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Inject some character into this person.
Now we can visualize who he is.
(38:02):
Maybe something about thinking about where the hand sanitizer is.
Yeah and sanitizer just out of reach i should have worn i should have worn my
gloves today i need it's okay i want my hands to be free i'm not standing up
for my seat i need to sanitize.
(38:23):
Don't you something with i like somebody like giving you that like the dirty
eye the side eye side eye that's what works that eye that's the guy who likes
his hands free oh there we go I want my hands to be free I'm not standing up
for my seat I need to sanitize don't give me the side eye that side eye,
cause I'm the guy who likes my hands free that guy,
(38:47):
this is fun this is a good like exercise so here's what I as you type that here's
what we should do if you're willing when we wrap up recording for the podcast,
to hit record on your side and just give us,
record cause we're on zoom right now you record the song and we'll put it here
in the end of the podcast what do you think all right you can jazz it up with
(39:09):
some effect you do whatever you want with it yeah.
I need to sanitize don't give me that side,
(39:31):
Something like that. So we make it kind of Muppets-ish.
Yeah, kind of, yeah. Everywhere you look. Everywhere you look.
Music.
(40:29):
Else that comes to mind for as we finish that part
up the aspiring songwriter that
we've missed or that we haven't covered in whether it's
a practical side to writing or an
maybe it's just an encouragement to those that are wanting
to figure it out or you know get better
at it yeah i mean the biggest advice
(40:50):
is every person at every level of songwriting
we all deal with the
same fear and it's the blank page with with
nothing on it so it's really
just about sitting down and doing it and just
writing and seeing what happens that's all you can do we and everybody
at every level deals with that fear so well i
(41:11):
gotta say i want to say thank you to not being
the generic songwriter thanks for
in the christian alternative i put that giant quotes quotes
a set of things you just write in some music as
a christian that speaks of your
faith and that to me that's what changed my
life growing up as a kid yeah and to know
(41:32):
that that kind of stuff is still around is awesome yeah man absolutely changed
my life too man remember that represents you and that's i think people connect
with it because it's very authentic what's the who's the songwriter or artist
that that really affected you the most Probably John Foreman,
Probably every kid my age Would probably say John Foreman Yeah.
(41:56):
Him for sure I want to be fair, I never liked Beautiful Letdown,
And then I heard the Jonas Brothers do their version. And I think that's the
greatest. That song's so good now.
I don't know how Switchfoot would feel about that. Because I heard the song.
I have heard it. And it is good. Sorry, John, if you're listening.
Dude, I don't agree on that one particularly. I think Switchfoot still holds.
(42:18):
I think that's the best version.
But John Bellion might have beat their Meant to Live, I think. Really?
I don't know. Well, dude, I can't listen to Meant to Live. I physically can't
like my I'm deaf in my left ear.
So I don't know what you guys are here. So how'd that happen?
(42:41):
Yeah, I was in a jet ski accident when I was nine.
And yeah, now people think I'm a jerk.
But as a songwriter and singer, look, that's that's incredible because you have
to work harder than everybody else. Well, Stephen, thank you for all of your time.
I think it really opens up a little bit of that world.
(43:04):
I always, at least to me, because I was never around it, songwriting was just
this mysterious thing and not realizing how much went into it.
But I also appreciate hearing that, you know, there is a lot of allowance in
the professional world to write the way that you write, you know,
and that it's not like a controlling environment.
But because the best art is going to come from people that, you know,
(43:26):
are writing genuinely, of course.
So thank you for taking the time for sharing with us, man. Really appreciate it.
And thank you guys for like tamping in whatever it takes, too. too.
I mean, I know it's not your typical, you know, sort of Christian radio song.
And I think it's awesome that you guys are like, kind of carrying the torch
(43:48):
with it. It used to be the Christian radio song.
It used to be that. That's what I grew up listening to on Christian radio.
Maybe this is the start of something new.
And for anybody listening, you know, whenever you might hear this podcast,
as of this recording, The reason we've been talking a lot about that is we actually,
the radio station that our day
job, our show that we do Monday through Friday, got to do the premiere,
(44:13):
the world radio premiere of Whatever It Takes here on Life FM.
So honored to get to do that. And man, I couldn't have chosen a better song
to get that opportunity for. So thank you.
Well, Consider It Joy is a production of 88.3 Life FM out of Bakersfield,
California, where you can listen to us there every weekday, as I mentioned,
on the 88.3 Life FM app. app.
(44:33):
Also find all the ways to listen and connect at consider it joy podcast.com.
And if you'll be so kind, if you enjoyed this episode or any of the other episodes
to hit subscribe, share those five-star ratings, help us out a ton as well to
get the word out. Steven, thanks for being here, man.
Absolutely. You're good. You're good. You're good. Thank you guys. I don't.
(44:57):
Music.
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