June 5, 2023 • 53 mins
In this captivating episode, we sit down with Jade Gross, an extraordinary chef with a unique background and an inspiring journey. Born to Chinese-American parents in Hong Kong, Jade defied expectations by forging her path in the culinary world after initially pursuing studies in politics and human affairs. Join us as we delve into her incredible story of transformation, from her humble beginnings to her remarkable achievements.
Jade shares her experience of entering the kitchen later in life and the challenges she faced as a fugitive chef. She takes us on a virtual tour through her diverse career, including her time spent with culinary greats such as Alain Ducasse and the Roca Brothers. We explore her role as the head chef and later the R&D chef at Mugaritz in San Sebastián, Spain, where she honed her skills and developed a deep passion for gastronomy.
After five years at Mugaritz, Jade embarked on a new chapter of her culinary adventure. We discuss her decision to leave the kitchen behind and pursue her current project of producing wine in the renowned Rioja region of Spain. As an outsider in the wine industry, Jade offers insights into the challenges she faced, the lessons she learned, and the joy of embracing a new craft.
We delve into the intricacies of Jade's transition from a seasoned chef to a wine producer and how she had to relearn many aspects of the trade. We explore the fascinating intersection between food and wine, the art of pairing flavors, and the parallels she draws between these two passions.
Through our conversation with Jade Gross, we gain a deeper understanding of the determination, resilience, and unwavering passion required to forge an unconventional path in the culinary world. Join us as we uncover the triumphs, tribulations, and transformative moments that have shaped Jade's journey as a fugitive chef-turned-wine pioneer only on Voy Atras!
linktr.ee/voyatraspodcast
Instagram:
@voyatraspodcast
@furqanmeerza
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
for me there was one rule that I
or one packed
I made with myself when I left politics to do kitchen
and then kitchen now to do wine
um no regret
don't look back
because if you keep on
if you if you soak on your regret
or you keep on looking the past
you really can't move forward
(00:20):
and that's something that my parents always had told me
I mean they're entrepreneurs themselves
and they started with not much
to be honest
and they were able to do many
many things
and it's really going with your gut I mean
let's say right now you're in the kitchen
and you've been there for a few years
and you realize you want to do more
but you just don't know what it is
(00:41):
but that's okay
you don't need to know
you don't need to have the answer
I didn't know I was gonna make wine
I left in 2,017
and I made wine 2,019
so I had a 2,018
I was a bit like
dabbling a little bit of everything
doing consultants in it
until I figured out that yeah
I want to make wine
and it's okay
I think a lot of people thought it was crazy though
at this point
(01:01):
but just believe in yourself
really go with your gut
so today we have Jade
Jade and I haven't really worked together
we have been part of the similar ecosystem
Jade for much longer
and much like back in the days in moguritz
(01:24):
and the idea of this episode is basically to
because Jade has left
I would say
of some sorts
not gastronomy
but being a chef as such
and has educated herself in not only wines
but also in business
I'm assuming by starting a brand
and especially in a country foreign to you of sorts
(01:44):
I don't know how much now
but I'm assuming it's not somewhere
somewhere you were bought up as
the idea of this is to like
to find out how can someone convert that passion
with all the challenges it brings into
into a business that's
that's not only
I would say famous
but also a project which is quite inspirational
and actually
(02:05):
can drive a lot of people into things like wines
which are not
I don't think people wake up to
the idea of having a wine estate or having a wine brand
because it's something where the value of tradition
and the value of having it in so many years
it's so much more important
so Jade how would
how would you introduce yourself to us
that's it that's a hard question to answer um
(02:26):
I don't know
I feel like most of my life
I've been pretty nomad
until I came to Spain so
you know I had a very multi cultural upbringing
because I was born and raised in Hong Kong
my parents come from two very different cultures
my dad's originally from New York
(02:48):
my mom is from Shanghai
but they have been living in in
in Hong Kong or Asian Hong Kong of
I don't know
maybe like 45
50 years now and um
I think a lot of things that happened in my adolescence
probably brought me to where I am today um
(03:08):
I don't think I'm the best person to describe myself
because I'm pretty hard on myself anyways so um
I think it's just uh
I'm just someone that
I realized it just really like challenges
even though I do complain about them um
I feel that um
it brings the best of me when I'm in a context uh
(03:33):
where I'm outside of my comfort zone
basically uh
because you know
it's as if you're surfing a wave
and you don't know at what point you're gonna fall
but you're still riding the wave
there's gonna be a
come to a point where you're gonna fall
but that in like that
not knowing what's gonna happen
I think sort of attracts me and
I think a lot of things that I decided to do in my life
(03:59):
is basically based on that concept
because when I was 18
I went to New York to study at New York University
I study politics
and I did a minor in Italian
and I did politics because I honestly and
naively thought I was gonna save the world um
and I I I assume
(04:20):
as we all do
as we all did and uh
so I studied different kinds of politics
I lived in Prague
I studied Eastern European politics
I lived in Italy
I did Italian politics
I mean all different from all the different continents
and concretely particular countries
and then I had done some internships as well
the one that marked me the most
(04:41):
was the International Criminal Court
which they do have
it is based in The Hague
but they do have an office uh
in New York City
and I realize that even though we were all trying to
you know make a change um
the change that comes is much later
and it's 0.0001% of this supposed change and it was
(05:07):
it was me going with the passion
but at the same time fighting against the current
and I had always felt that
maybe I will never see some sort of establish change no
like physical change or oh
why did this
and now you know
the world is a much better place um
so I told my parents that I wanted to have a gap here
(05:33):
before doing a Masters
and travel world and volunteer
because I had done that already I
I had gone to India
was there for about 6 months as well
and I just wanted to go to different places
and figure out what I really wanna do um
but my mother told me that no
you need to go do a masters now
because Asian culture was actually
(05:53):
Asian moms or Chinese moms are very you know
you know they they
they know what you
what they want you to have the best
and I think that she just wanted to push me to
or gear and guide me to where I was supposed to go
and so I said okay fine
and so I went to London
I went to London School of economics
(06:15):
and I studied masters in Human rights
because I really thought I was still within this
you know this
the world of non profit
and helping people and trying to make a change
but I was more than convinced at that point that
it wasn't for me
(06:35):
I did finish the Masters
but I remember I was speaking to a friend of mine
who at the time
got into law school
and her father was a lawyer or quite a
quite a well known barrister actually
in Hong Kong and um
so she was gonna go to law school as well and she
(06:55):
after two weeks she quit
and I was in this moment of my life
I don't know what to do
but I'm gonna finish my masters
but what should I do
and she's like
what do you like to do
and then we just ended up just having a conversation
and she had just started an internship
in an organization in London called escape the city
which is I don't know if you heard about it
but it's basically a startup where they help people
(07:19):
around 25 to 35 years
old who went the conventional way of let's do
let's be a lawyer
let's work in finance
let's be a doctor
for example
but actually
the real passion is to be a dancer
or to be a photographer
but they didn't have the funds to start from zero
so escape the city
help them do that
which I thought was amazing
actually and um
(07:40):
so she was already in this mood like yeah
do what you want to do and be happy
and I said yeah
well you know
you know I like to cook
but it wasn't something
it was something that I
you know was a hobby um
I don't have that
story where I cooked with my grandmother in the kitchen
the only thing I do know is I really love to eat
and I like to try different things
(08:02):
and I think that growing up in Hong Kong
and being able to travel around the world also
widened the palate
and so secretly
I applied to culinary school in Paris
called Econ Faldi
and within France
nationally it's quite well known
and when I got in
I thought okay
(08:23):
I'm not gonna ask my parents to also pay for
the studies
so I applied for a grant at James Beard Foundation
right so it's a foundation that supports
chefs who are US citizens around the world
and I got the grant
and so I thought that there was
how crazy did I gone to a culinary school
having no culinary background
(08:43):
and then getting a grant from Jade's Beard um
and I guess I wrote a compelling essay
um so yeah so
then I ended up going to culinary school in Paris
which I had loved and uh
and I thought that if I was really gonna do this
so my passion for food at this point was
I would call myself a foodie definitely
(09:04):
because I really like to try different places
and I think Paris
at the time
where I was there
was the boom of bistronomy
you know like
the kids that were
I mean the young chefs that worked in
I Learned you
cast Piagena
and all these top restaurants
opening their bistro
that was Neo Bistro
and it was right at that moment
and I thought it was a great moment to be in Paris
(09:25):
actually and
so I thought
if I really was gonna do this
for my passion for food
I'm gonna pick the hardest place I can find to do
an intuition
at the time okay
now probably has changed so it was
so the three star Mission restaurant
and it was yeah
it was definitely
one of the hardest things I've ever done
(09:45):
because you have one foot in your old world
where you can always go back
right to be a lawyer or whatever
but and you have one foot in the new world
and the hardest part is taking that second foot
that's in the old world and bringing that forward
and whatever happens happens
right and um
(10:06):
so I did the internship uh
yeah I was I didn't I
I wondered if all kitchens were the same
right so when I had finished uh
my dream at the time was to go to Abu
but they had closed in that year
so my second
I want my other choice was
and say it like a little cow
but they didn't have any spots
(10:27):
so I went to Mulatte okay
and when I was there
I realized that
it was a different way of thinking for me
it was very
it wasn't a pyramid style hierarchy for me at the time
it was very lineal in the fact that um
I was an intern
(10:47):
but I had a voice
and if I asked a question about why you would do it
the way you would do it
they would always give you an explanation in my head
in my previous internship
it wasn't really that experience
so I felt it was much more welcoming and um
and yeah I I stayed there for a year
(11:10):
I ended up in the
in the closed part of Emma's day
which I loved as well and
because of paperwork I
I couldn't stay
um so I did end up going to it
say it okay
which I thought was a great uh
another great restaurant
were more family style because you know
(11:30):
you're the brothers
and you eat in the parents restaurant
the old restaurant
and I think had a great time
and also gave me another perspective of how you
you know treat astronomy
um and actually
I was about to go to Farvican
okay when uh
Danny Lasa called me actually
and asked me to come back
cause he knew I really wanted to come back
mm hmm and yes
(11:52):
I came back in 2,013
and as a shifted party
and after being there one year
I thought that
um I would like to travel the world
because I was a nomad the other part of my life
and just work in different kitchens right
um and just at that moment they
there was a woman head chef at Moogres called Julieta
(12:16):
and she had
she left and so they had to fill the spot
and so they asked Juan and I
to be two head chefs at the same time
and I thought that I saw
on the one hand
is they travel the world and be a chef
or be a head chef at movement
and I thought
that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity
(12:38):
because I had started really late in the game
I mean I started after a master
so this at this point
I was 23 mm hmm
and I always had
thought that I was always behind from everyone else
because I even
I even told Danny this
I told him that
I know I'm not the best chef
but I do have the opportunity to travel the world
(13:00):
and eat in different restaurants
and I know how to eat
and I think you need to know what's going on to not
or just not be so focused on what you're doing on
right in one particular
you need to see and um
so that was my plus I guess um
and after one year being head chef again
I thought I was gonna go travel the world
(13:21):
and be chef departi
or head chef from another restaurant
and right at that time Oswaldo
who was in Ema's day
he left and they had offered me his spot
and again I thought
this is definitely a once in a lifetime
because enough days
you know it's like you know
and I accepted
(13:42):
and I stayed another three more years
so I stayed until 2,017 and 2,017
and it was great
because you know
Emma's day was a whole
whole other ball game for me
different way of thinking
surrounded by people very creative
I never thought myself
I was very creative
but you know
as as and Donnie likes to say
(14:03):
if you surround yourself with people
who are very creative
you then become
get infected
right so yeah
funnily enough
I've seen like
some of your books
because I used to spend these
when you had these big break shifts
I used to go up in the library and
spend some time at the most
bottom shelf
yes there are still like
I wouldn't say books
but these spiral
bounded files yes
you and Lila
so you and someone else
(14:24):
oh see I wouldn't say
these are not creative ideas
what I've seen
yeah yeah I know
there was a little bit of everything
there's a little bit of everything
but yeah but
so during my time at Moog reads
I got it more into the world of wine as a consumer
I think I've always consumed wine
but I was very into French wine because in Hong Kong
(14:44):
the wines that they import are either French
Italian or Australian and so
you know I consumed but without any knowledge
when I came to Spain I
well I figured out that there were different areas
with really interesting wines
I had visited ladio ha a few times
(15:04):
until one time
one Somalia
Nico who is now an Elcano
uh told me that I should visit this couple
uh in this small little town in some Ethente
um so I went
and we started a friendship uh
and who and they eventually became my mentors actually
(15:26):
and the year I left Moogritz I
to be honest I
I think what I felt was what I felt when I left
human rights
it wasn't I
I felt I don't know at what point
what could I do more
and how could I push myself more
(15:46):
so I thought I should have just started from zero again
so this is literally almost
a little bit more than 10 years later
restarting again
and I remember this couple
I've been Mendoza and my day his wife
how can you start again from zero and you are 31 or 32
(16:08):
and I said if I don't try it
I I'll never figure it out
I'll never know
and I'm always gonna have this feeling of like
what if yeah
and I think that's what had happened when I studied
when I finished my masters
is what if I just try
and if it fails
it fails but I
I don't know
I felt that feeling again
but 10 years later
(16:29):
no knowledge of how to make wine
and they basically
they taught me everything I know now um
the project is very young
it started in 2,019
in the wine world
you're compared to all these wineries that are 100
200 years old
even 50 years old
um but yeah
(16:49):
I think that uh
being very meticulous and
I like to know how things are made
and I think this curiosity has LED me to where I am
whether it's a good idea or a bad idea
and yeah so I started with about 800 bottles in 2,019
(17:09):
and now four years later
I would say it's about 5,000 bottles
so slowly it's growing
it's becoming more important
uh people are very receptive
so I'm very lucky um
and people are repeating their orders
which also makes me feel that I am doing
(17:30):
at least an acceptable wine
um but yeah
I feel a lot of things of course
that I Learned from agreeds
really trap
like translate it into the wine
because winemaking for me is almost like cooking
but long term
so because you know
at the end of fermentation and maceration
are terms that are also used in the kitchen
(17:52):
uh the only difference is uh
in the kitchen
you can make a dish today
and then make it again in a few hours
even tomorrow
uh but with wine making
as you know
it's a harvest is one time a year
uh you're really dependent on nature
and on the sun and the rain and the
(18:13):
and the heat and other factors
and that can either make or break your
your vintage basically
and the reaction is well
the product comes out one year later
approximately
and another difference
that I realized just the other day
is that in a kitchen
you can see the reactions of the people when they eat
but I don't know what people
(18:33):
feel when they drink the wine yeah
and it goes
right now it's about
in 13 different markets
in 13 different countries
and you don't know what this person
you don't have that feedback
unless it's on social media
so it's also quite scary right
I remember
when I first started
(18:54):
a lot of people very receptive on the wine
and it put me on a different platform
and I think I'm very lucky for that
but there's also
there's always gonna be a pro and a con with that
you know they start comparing you with
people that been making wine for a while and I mean
I'm not here to to be a
I'm not here to compete
I'm here because it makes me happy and
(19:18):
don't know if this is my final stride
maybe 40 something I'll do something else
but for now it's
it's become a vocation
it's become a life project mm hmm
and yeah the only thing I can do is always improve
so the way I make wine is as I make wine I learn
(19:40):
which is a bit risky
because at the end of the day
it's trial and error yeah
so just might
it's almost like an R amp d right
when they're creating the dishes mm hmm
but you get to recreate and recreate it
but this is okay
I'm gonna do this little tweak
I'm not gonna ferment it like this
I'm gonna ferment it like that
and sometimes it's a win
and sometimes it's not so much a win
(20:00):
but going with that
what about like uniformity
because now you're selling a product which goes by
a brand which goes by of course
people understand the concept behind natural wines
and they all have
everybody has his own character and things like that
but you still supposed to deliver
compared to doing addition
Margaret's where the idea is that everything
is cut organically and should not look square
I would say
right right
(20:22):
how easy it is
because therefore you die
you're serving 50 diners a night
in a very controlled condition of how they consume
and where they can zoom in
temperature and all these things
how do you feel like
bringing that philosophy into your business now
is it the same
or you had to relearn some values for like
wine consumers compared to fine dining food consumers
(20:43):
I feel it's a little bit more cutthroat
the wine I maybe because you don't see
yeah again likes going back to like
seeing the reaction or seeing what they think I'm not I
I'm not saying that
that my product is the best product on the market
because I know it's not
but it's an interpretation
from someone who is an outsider
(21:03):
who is not from Spain
who has no links to any sort of viticultural
history or family that has vines or worked in wine
it's someone who very much appreciates
respects this region
and it's interpretation of
of a pre a former chef and a person that really is a
(21:23):
is a consumer of wine and I
what I do say to the people who
either distribute my wine or buy my wine is I
I don't I couldn't
I don't think I can be consistent
because I'm still figuring out my style
because in NY they was
what kind of style
why do you make
(21:44):
I don't even know how to answer that question
because I'm
I'm still figuring out what I like
I'm gonna make a white wine
how I'm gonna make it
okay this year
I'm a little bit more happier than last year
because I feel like there's an improvement
because I've changed the technique
because I've changed grapes
but I can't guarantee
that next year is gonna be the same
because again
you're based on nature
that's one hand
and second hand
(22:04):
I'm still learning
I mean I've only been doing this for four years
so it's always a bit of a gamble
that's what I sell
is inconsistency
I mean I don't
yeah I think that's the only thing I can say
is that every year
vintification will change
depending on what I feel is best
but I'm not saying that it is the answer
(22:26):
and that's gonna be the style that defines me
I feel like right now
there is no style
mm hmm yeah
that's lovely
I think I think I connect with you a lot of things
I have myself moved a lot actually
was a somebody who was a very
I think it's something very Indian as well
I don't know how many people from
how many countries relate with that
very patriotic
I think it's
patriotism is taught to you even from like
school stage
(22:46):
and I was gonna be in the army
in the Navy
and things like that
actually ended up being in activism
being a part of a political party
before I could actually vote
and then coming from that into gastronomy
was a very sudden like
the only thing
the one thing similar I found in both of these things
is that they both
I don't know if many industries do that
I think many people take their work
(23:07):
and job is something they do as a part of the day
and they get out of it
I think what I found in
I was in a left wing political party
borderline communist
and they had
when I was in that
every conversation I had with people outside work
was all only about it
or even like
value stemming from it
where it's like
you're in such a big bubble
where you feel that
(23:29):
you know that what you're doing is right
and it's gonna be
maybe it's not the answer
but it's somewhat
it's got it's a better option compared to what's in in
in trend today
I would say
how do you connect that
was that something which challenged me a lot
because then when I started traveling
while working for a said restaurant
I started seeing new concepts or like
questioning things that I was basing my
(23:50):
say food philosophy or like dining philosophy on
um is there also something you relate with
on these two fields
specifically
I would say human rights activism
politics and gastronomy
um there's always politics in the kitchen uh huh
so that came handy
that came quite handy
um I think um
I think that was actually a
(24:11):
one of the themes
no of mad yeah
also two years connecting across border
something with Pitts politics as well
politics and immigration and yeah
I was supposed to go to that one
actually okay
I think that's a big theme to handle
I feel that there's I mean
not only go show me
there's a lot of things that go
that goes on around the world in terms with that are
(24:33):
that has a little bit of politics
a little bit immigration
a little bit of workers rights
human rights um
it's I think it's something that unless you have
I mean you have organizations like mad
that really treat the problem
but I think it's really important to also act upon it
and you can have governments
(24:54):
like maybe Denmark and Sweden and Norway
who a little bit more
I guess support more their citizens and more welcoming
but then you have other countries
a little bit more closed
so I think it's a little complicated
I think it depends on where you find yourself in
and coming from
like I mean
you born in Hong Kong
but I think it also gives you perspective
(25:15):
was what restoration is like
you've traveled to India
as you said
you've traveled to south southeast nature
how do you see coming from a culture where
for me I mean
for me this interview is pretty easy
because I'm basing the questions I would ask myself
okay this is bouncing it off your head
and to see what your reaction is like
how do you see
for example
if I if I like
I'm also the black sheep of the family
(25:36):
every kid in India is either doctor
lawyer engineer
my brother for example
is in mechanical engineer
same as in exactly
so which is why it's easy for me to ask these questions
um when I said
I want to do this
they didn't
I used to like
first I used to like
dump it down
what I'm doing
but then I said
you know actually
I should tell them more of what I'm doing
and maybe like
simplify it
(25:56):
and things like that
but still the gap is so big
compared to where
not only the amount of disposable income people have
I think there are people
in Bombay right now who can buy half of San Sebastian
wouldn't care about it
but they wouldn't put the same money on dining out
no or on a natural wine
which has its own character
but then the
these are places also where you eat
(26:17):
like exactly
different I mean
it's so crazy
they have such a
like diversity
uh huh and so much power
and it's so rich in that
you know that part of culture
that it's so funny that
at the same time
yeah they don't put
I don't know how you would say
like not value
but I don't know it's
I remember when I told my parents
(26:37):
I was going to culinary school
like like for my mom
for example
in Asian culture
or in Chinese culture
it's either doctor
lawyer or finance
right so I was going to the lawyer right and
being a chef
maybe back then
now it's maybe it's a little different
you know it didn't look so good because
(26:59):
and although there's a diversity in terms of food
is in China
but in an Asian general
obviously every single country
every single province has their little
you know particular style of food um
they love to eat out they love
you know everything
that's very interesting
but at the same time
if you say that that's gonna be your vocation
your passion
(27:20):
it's like almost frowned upon right
uh so when I told my parents I was gonna make wine
I think at this point
do whatever
you just do whatever you want um
because we can't say anything but no
I think they've seen how I've grown
have a change as a person and now
being an entrepreneur is their entrepreneurs themselves
I think that
(27:41):
you know it also
you know it gives him a little bit like
respect as well now
but it was it was not it's
it's still not easy
but it hasn't been an easy ride in general so
the only thing is
to really have that passion and push forward
I mean you really have to believe in what you're doing
(28:04):
to give you strength
not so much physical
I think it's really emotional and mental and um
if you don't have that
it's really not worth it I think
because you'll be bogged down really easily
you know it's really fighting for what you want
like really going against the current all the time
(28:26):
and sometimes it's quite tiring
um sometimes you feel a little bit more down right
I feel your
you have highs and lows
right as as as
as everybody
but it's really fighting against the current
but for me it's not only just having changed completely
the pro I mean
from being a chef to now winemaker um
(28:48):
I still don't consider myself a winemaker
to be honest
I don't even know what I would call myself
this is Jeff trying to make wine um
but I think it's also
for me it's um
it's I'm not using it as a justification
but you know
there's not a lot of female winemakers
there's not a lot of foreign winemakers
(29:11):
that starting a project from scratch
I know for example
there are a lot of Japanese winemakers in France
and I think they're quite well supported
but in Spain I you know
a lot of the women either have some sort of relation
and if not there's
there's Spanish
and physically
you know I I feel
(29:31):
I feel at the beginning was harder for me
because physically
obviously I look Asian or half Asian and um
that also was a struggle for
acceptance and you know
in a society
in a tradition that's quite very local you know
so breaking that bear also
(29:52):
you need a lot of
balls yeah I think it's a big
I think it's a big move to
like for you
I think it's challenging some things
like what we do
or before we like
start questioning that okay
it's gonna be some challenging
for somebody to accept it
I think for ourselves
we are the ones
we're actually making that bigger question
for you to like
go out there and not just put your name
but if face on that bottle
I think that's a loud step
(30:13):
which would definitely open the pay of the wafer
for the label to come through
what I wanted to ask through this is that
there's always this
I'm with somebody who relates a lot with the point of
this discomfort
I still think that it's much easier to deal with
failure than to deal with regret
I do things which I think would go wrong definitely
but I still do them for the heck of doing it
(30:35):
but then again
being in a in a field like being a chef
I think many passions
which I had back then
when I was in a
in a daily chef's job
it leaves you very little space to dream
because you're so occupied
and of course you dream
but to act upon it
it's easier to make excuses
because you're actually very occupied
compared to say
you were in human rights
(30:57):
working at the ICC
or you're working at it in a bank job
you would have those evenings
at those times
to think about your passion and actually think that
okay I could sign up for this
I could do that
how do you keep that passion alive part
first part would be that
the second part would be
are there moments
because for me
I can definitely say
there are moments where I have taken
(31:17):
for example
this podcast
The Passion Project
there are points of it where I'm like
receiving messages from people
how much they're liking it and everything
but there are parts of me which are like
I'm coming home in the evening
editing it and doing these things
but it's actually becoming tiring now
yeah and to balance it out
to know that
how far do you wanna go
because the idea you started
it was like
to be happy from it
but now it's become a job
(31:37):
so it does have those bad days yeah
how do you deal with that
or something doesn't happen to you magically
dealing with it it's it's
it depends on your emotional state
I think but uh
the the the passion project I mean uh
or your passion project is my passion project in wine
right uh huh um
(31:58):
I think that
as you said
it was much easier than
because it was just being happy making wine
and 800 bottles
800 bottles for me at the time was a lot
but actually in the world of wine it's nothing
it's quite it's quite small um and uh
I really I think that I can only speak for myself uh
(32:22):
I just wanna see how far I can go
and it's really biting the bullet a lot of times um
there's still a lot of politics involved
you have to always
there's always gonna be something with
politically incorrect
politically correct um
I feel that uh
(32:43):
it's I think it's more showing for myself
where I want to go
but also I mean
I'm not saying that I'm gonna be you know
the poster girl for everyone else who's a foreigner
wants to make wine
come and do that I
I mean I don't consider myself that
but I feel that it would hopefully in the future
(33:03):
would maybe invite or entice more young people
to make wine and work in the Vineyard with actually
agriculture is a very difficult field
a lot of people are not wanting to
because you get very little from it
you're faced with a lot of variables at all times um
(33:26):
and how to deal with the UPS and downs
you need to be able to disconnect
I think for me I
I Learned that at Mugris um
because as you said
you're so in it that you don't
see it with a perspective ever
right and it becomes your reality and becomes your
I sleep thinking about it
(33:47):
I wake up seeing us
maybe I'd be dreaming about it um
and I think for me
I was very strict on my day off as my day off
that's the allocated day off
but a lot of people didn't really understand that
and they thought that I was just lazy
but I wasn't
I when if everyone if
(34:10):
if everyone had a day off and you call them
they don't answer
so I should also be able to be able to at least live
for at least a few hours not thinking that
by the end of the day
you're still thinking about it
you I mean maybe it's just a justification
but I feel that disconnect is really important
so for me the disconnect is being here
(34:34):
because if I'm
if I'm in Latino ha
I think I would be in the winery at all times and no
no disconnect
and I think it's really important
whether it's one day
two days or exercise
or being with friends or just going out and living
and feeling that you do have a life
that you're not just binded by by that um
I think it's really important for emotional stability
(34:56):
I think um if not because I'm also very
again I can only speak for myself I have I'm
I would say I'm a very
I don't know how to say
I think I'm very passionate about what I do
I defend it to the core
but I'm also very obsessive and very perfectionist
(35:19):
and I'm the hardest critic that I know about myself
so when I try wine and I
my own wine
and I think I'm the most critical person
so no one else can be as critical as me um
saying all these things
it's really important for me to disconnect
yeah because if not
I think I would just go crazy at this point
(35:39):
you know it would be
I'm very serious with what I do
and I really don't like to bother other people
I'm really doing my own thing
and yeah I think I take it
obviously I take it very seriously
because it's the life project right now um
but yeah so
dealing with UPS and down is definitely being able to
(36:02):
to disconnect and be very patient
I also I remember when I
when I left the kitchen
I started making wine
I was I told my mentors
I'm gonna buy this barrel
I'm gonna put the wine like this
and I'm gonna buy this machinery
and he's like
whoa whoa whoa
you need to
like relax because the world of wine is very slow
(36:22):
need to have a lot of patience
and sometimes
things don't come out the way that you want them to
so for me it's a daily struggle
and patience yeah um
because I'm
I'm a sort of character that I want
and I want it now uh
and I'd rather do the on my own to do it faster as well
so that's something that I
(36:43):
I deal with um
but I've I've Learned to
things happen for a reason
and whether plans out or not um
yeah you just have to be able to
be acceptant of your current situation
and be very adaptable
be very be very malleable
and I think being malleable
(37:05):
I Learned that from my time at Mugrid
because in Mugrid's
you know when you were an intern
you would change stations well
when I was there every 2
3 months yeah
the dishes was also changed
you would then have to adapt the recipe um
and you're always outside of your
comfort zone a little bit
right because you're there with other chefs
(37:26):
and you're not competing
but you're still competing
um and I think that's something that I value very much
for my time there
and actually made me a stronger person
and I think without that
I wouldn't be where I am now for sure
yeah I think
I really like the point where you set about these
I think setting these boundaries for yourself is like
something so challenging
when you're like
so driven and you believe so much in something
(37:48):
it just drives you crazy
if you don't set those boundaries
and I think for every form of relationship
with people or with your work
or with your passion or whatever it is
it's yeah it's so important
it's so nice to see and so much to learn from
the way you approached it
while having to like
juggle between so many roles
and then still managing to do that
it's quite inspirational
(38:09):
I want to like
I remember you saying
back in the beginning of the podcast that you do not
like you subtly touch the theme of like
you do not know what's next
and for me that's something which scares me
because I love the discomfort so much
I always complain
I'm not saying that I'm the coolest guy
who loves the discomfort
and it's like joyful
no I complain
I always complain
I complain constantly to everybody
(38:30):
you know I hate
for the past four years
I've moved every 8 months
actually I just completed 8 months I'm scared
why is it not happening
and actually
we're sitting right now
people on the podcast can't see it
in a curtainless room
and last week
I was discussing with a friend
should I buy a curtain
and the first thought in my head was
you know what
if I buy the curtain
I have to find someone to sell it when I'm going
(38:52):
and there's no plan of me moving
there should be no reason I should be moving
but it's just so attractive
the idea of being uncomfortable and knowing what's next
how do you balance that out
like how do you balance this hunger for
because all things which are idolized in the world
be it a job
be it a passion
be it a business
the goal of it is stability
(39:15):
which not all of us would value
stability at that stage of life where we are
at any stage of life
maybe I mean
how do you juggle between that
stability is important for you
to run the numbers and to produce the dot
go down the number of bottles you're producing today
but also to enjoy your hunger for instability
(39:35):
of course no
I think my stability is instability
that should be a T-shirt
that should be a T-shirt
right no but
um you know
it's funny because in the world of wine
they do like consistency
right and they do like stability
because they wanna have a producer that eventually the
the your path is
every year I'm gonna make more
(39:57):
right and obviously improve on the wine
but every I'm gonna make more
and be more accessible to a lot of people
right now I can't do that
because I'm a one person project
I don't have staff
I do it on my
sometimes you know
I have a few friends that come and help
obviously that is a huge help
but during the year
I'm basically on my own
except for harvest as well but
(40:18):
the stability for me need to be
I need to have stability
when I'm on a break or when I'm disconnecting
yeah that's a stability okay
to make me be able to live
with the daily instability of wine
(40:39):
I think actually
it's really cool that you're asking me this
because I've never really thought about it
so everything that's coming out of my mouth right now
it's really first time I'm thinking about it
but I feel that I need to have a stable
life outside of whatever project I'm in
for me to then recuperate
and then get back into the game and face
(41:02):
whatever happens
every time I go to Lido is like something happening
you know it's either rained a lot
or it didn't rain
and it's dried up or
I don't know
something with the wine
and so I for me to be able to like
just really
like reflect
it's really important to have a stable life
that could be anything
I mean I'm not a
for me stability is having freedom and being okay what
(41:23):
I'm gonna travel
or I'm gonna be able to have a
go have a drink or eat at home or watch TV or something
just really random you know
I think it's really relative depending on the person
but um I I am
I'm a big complainer
and so I always complain that every time in the wine
I have to do something
and this thing came up
and I'm not able to focus on doing one particular task
(41:46):
because now I have 10 tasks
but I think at the end of day I do like
I do like it
because I like to
you know strike off my list of
my to do list of things that I need to do
but I think for me
as you said
like the disconnect is the stability
for me to survive the instability
(42:06):
that's that's lovely
I think it should
we should normalize that
I think we when we look at people
I think we all aspire a lot
I think coming from India
I also spy a lot with
I think cinema is a big part of our culture
for example
so we idolize
I don't know
if you're watching pursuit of happiness
and you see somebody's story
like Chris Gardner making it
it's only focusing on the 90 minutes of him
(42:27):
making those big moves
whereas and if we think that okay
that instability is what we should idolize
but we're not seeing the other hours of the
the man's life
who he's having a meal with his kid
or going out to a diner
and having pancakes in the morning and things like that
so I think it's so important to
that we shouldn't associate
all the values we look up to just with profession
(42:48):
I think which is something
which happens so commonly in the kitchen
because of course
the ratio of your time spent at work
is much higher than time spent by yourself
and also accepting that
drawing this boundary
as you said
of like my day off is my day off
and actually
you'll be more nutritive and productive for the
for the company when you're back on that
on that first day of work
I guess but that's very
(43:09):
that was very hard for them to accept mm hmm
because you
you need to be available 24 hours a day
yeah especially if you were
you know hired
yeah and you talking to the producers and suppliers
and things like that
to the market and then
or whatever
and then something happens
you need to go again to buy something else
or an intern is sick
and you need to bring them to the hospital
(43:29):
I mean there were so many things that you can never um
it was your responsibility at all times
you know and for me
I think maybe that's the reason why I did leave
is because I had more time to think
uh huh outside
when I was already an emails day
you know I it's a
you know it's a different department than
they have their hours
(43:50):
and they do service
but they don't always do service
so your your
your mind is in different fields
because you also work with people who are
outside of gastronomy
right and it all
it just made me had time to
to think and to think more for myself
because I think
for many years
I never really thought
thought about myself
I always thought about
(44:11):
I gave priorities that were not my own
it was I but I took it as if it was my own
I mean I treat him agrees
as if it was my own restaurant
and I'm sure a lot of people did that as well
right or still
people do um
and uh yeah
I think having that
possibility to just really reflect and think
(44:36):
is this what I really want to do
is it would it be crazy to make it another change
for a change um
I know different people who still work
in the culinary world
uh well now
a few of them living in
in Asia and you know
they wanna now
(44:57):
I don't know
practice yoga
and to have that you know
mental stability
and be able to go back to doing chef jobs
I mean you know
there's a little bit of everything
to be honest
but I think it's only
you realize it later
yeah you don't realize it when you first start
yeah yeah I think again
I would say it's again because
you're not highlighting the things we should highlight
(45:19):
and I think retrospect in
regarding these retrospects are so important
I always say that
in the quest of learning what I want to learn
like how things should be done
I've Learned volumes of how to not do things constantly
and I think it's important that we
we keep them close
I think because it's also a phase of
I think it's a learning curve
where you do things you're not supposed to do or like
(45:39):
you're in environments you're not supposed to be in
I think it really nourishes you
when you look back and realize that
okay I did it
but I'm glad that I'm out of it now
and I like tomorrow
and I'm in a position of
change things
and actually be the one that command
there are things to be done
and I think we are all supposed to go through that
that phase by this beautiful song
that the topics you highlighted
(46:00):
I think to wrap up this conversation a little bit
of all the directions
like all the wire directions we've
we've gotten this
it would be interesting to know from you
um because most people listening
from what I hear from them are
are still chefs working in the restaurants every day
I think Covid has changed a lot
what happened in restaurants before
and how restaurants worked
and that has given people
(46:21):
a sort of a breather to look out
and there are so many
like I interviewed Huan the other day
the whole ecosystem of insurgence of Arsenal
we heard of people
valuing things outside the kitchen
and approaching gastronomy through different aspects
I would like to know from you
people who are in the kitchens today
who have ideas
be it wine or be it something else
(46:41):
of just doing something
you you exactly would know the things that limit them
that I know
that things that limit you from taking that plunge
could be financial monetary
I think people think that's the biggest thing
but I think that's the smallest hurdle
the financial part of things
although it might look big
but there are so many mental hurdles which you have to
(47:02):
go upon like
how would you want to
like if you could say a few words of how
what should they focus on
as a motivation to do something
not because the restaurant scene is bad
or working restaurant is bad
but because
maybe there is so much more to you that you can explore
and if you're in a restaurant
if you're in a kitchen
you should be there because you choose to be there
not because you do not know any other way out
(47:24):
no I think that you're definitely
I think the financial aspect
seems like it's a big topic
but at the end of the day
if you can put that aside um
it's you living your life right
you're not gonna live anyone else's life
(47:44):
and from what we know
we only live once
um and I think it's really
follow your passion
and uh for me
there was one rule that I
or one packed
I made with myself when I left politics
to do kitchen
and then kitchen now to do wine
(48:05):
um no regret
don't look back
because if you keep on
if you if you soak on your regret
or you keep on looking the past
you really can't move forward
and that's something that my parents always had told me
I mean they're entrepreneurs themselves
and they started with not much
to be honest
and they were able to do many
(48:26):
many things
and it's really going with your gut I mean
let's say right now
you're in the kitchen
and you've been there for a few years
and you realize you wanna do more
but you just don't know what it is
but that's okay
you don't need to know
you don't need to have the answer
I didn't know I was gonna make wine
I left in 2,017
and I made wine 2,019
(48:46):
so I had a 2,018 as a bit
like dabbling a little bit of everything
doing consultants in it
until I figured out that yeah I
I wanna make wine
and it's okay
I think a lot of people thought it was crazy though
at this point
but I think you need to have really
a lot of confidence in yourself
don't be influenced by others
because everyone's gonna have an opinion
(49:07):
whether beneficial to you or not um
just believe in yourself
really go with your gut I mean there's nothing
I mean I can't
I was gonna say there's nothing to lose
but I mean I really
it's really
it's really
that's also very relative
I think you need to
(49:28):
yeah just be happy
but this is coming from me after you know
from 18 to 33 I was doing different things
you know I studied
like you said
politics and human rights in the kitchen um
think it's important to just go with your gut
whether or not you know what you're gonna do or not
(49:48):
I think not knowing is the most scary thing
the unknown is the unknown
obviously of failing or success
that's also a big issue
I think that's even a bigger issue than the financial
it's failure to your own eyes
but also failure
two people around you
I think that's
(50:08):
it's a fear
it's a fear
you know people
a lot of people
I mean I'm myself included
I am afraid of failing
because I've committed so much of my time
and I've committed also
you know financially
quite a lot
that if it all goes downhill
don't know how I would feel about that right
so I think that
(50:31):
there's always gonna be a gamble
but I feel that you just have to go with your gut
and if you want to stay in the kitchen
but you want to do something with kitchen
related to other fields
that's also super cool
because I think now it's more accepted than before
I think now
there's many more opportunities than there was
and I think now the field actually is quite interesting
(50:53):
actually working astronomy
because there's so many things you can do
astronomy and science
or gastronomy and tech
astronomy and cinema
or music I mean
or even wine and food
I mean there's a lot of things that back in the day
they didn't really have those opportunities
right um I mean
everyone that's in the kitchen
I feel they're quite strong
(51:14):
yeah right just to begin with
yeah you have to deal with all those things
you're really strong mentally
physically even though you feel like
really bogged down sometimes
which is normal
but it's really
biting the bullet and just fighting
for what you love
to be honest
exactly I think the idea of the podcast is this
because sometimes we know all these things
(51:36):
but I think it makes so much more sense
you're hearing it from somebody who's done it
and also I loved how in every phase of it
you highlighted how that part of mogurites
or any said kitchen
helped you apply it
so I think people should value that
it's too late
I have to study
I don't know
anthropology
at the age of 40
you have to but then
there's so much from your past that's going to help you
(51:57):
that's not time gone in vain
also the way you sell it
I think it's so much easier to live with
I failed then
I could have
I should have
I would have all these questions like
it's a sad life to live if
there is this big question Mark looming over your head
you know so I love the conversation we've had
it's been so fruitful I think
(52:17):
thank you for taking time out
I think everybody is hearing now
has no like
knows completely how busy your schedule is
I hope they can all bear with my voice
that has been done for the past 5 days and now
thank you so much Jade
for taking time out
thank you so much for your time
and thank you for inviting me
so that's it from this week's episode of Boy Address
a podcast where we bring to you
(52:38):
the voice of the fugitive chefs
if you like listening to these interviews
do subscribe to us
so that you do not miss out on any of these episodes
you can also find us on Instagram and YouTube
as Boy Address Podcast
we release new episodes every Tuesday
alternating between English and Spanish
for me there was one rule that I
or one packed
I made with myself when I left politics to do kitchen
and then kitchen now to do wine
um no regret
don't look back
because if you keep on
if you if you soak on your regret
or you keep on looking the past
you really can't move forward
(00:20):
and that's something that my parents always had told me
I mean they're entrepreneurs themselves
and they started with not much
to be honest
and they were able to do many
many things
and it's really going with your gut I mean
let's say right now you're in the kitchen
and you've been there for a few years
and you realize you want to do more
but you just don't know what it is
(00:41):
but that's okay
you don't need to know
you don't need to have the answer
I didn't know I was gonna make wine
I left in 2,017
and I made wine 2,019
so I had a 2,018
I was a bit like
dabbling a little bit of everything
doing consultants in it
until I figured out that yeah
I want to make wine
and it's okay
I think a lot of people thought it was crazy though
at this point
(01:01):
but just believe in yourself
really go with your gut
so today we have Jade
Jade and I haven't really worked together
we have been part of the similar ecosystem
Jade for much longer
and much like back in the days in moguritz
(01:24):
and the idea of this episode is basically to
because Jade has left
I would say
of some sorts
not gastronomy
but being a chef as such
and has educated herself in not only wines
but also in business
I'm assuming by starting a brand
and especially in a country foreign to you of sorts
(01:44):
I don't know how much now
but I'm assuming it's not somewhere
somewhere you were bought up as
the idea of this is to like
to find out how can someone convert that passion
with all the challenges it brings into
into a business that's
that's not only
I would say famous
but also a project which is quite inspirational
and actually
(02:05):
can drive a lot of people into things like wines
which are not
I don't think people wake up to
the idea of having a wine estate or having a wine brand
because it's something where the value of tradition
and the value of having it in so many years
it's so much more important
so Jade how would
how would you introduce yourself to us
that's it that's a hard question to answer um
(02:26):
I don't know
I feel like most of my life
I've been pretty nomad
until I came to Spain so
you know I had a very multi cultural upbringing
because I was born and raised in Hong Kong
my parents come from two very different cultures
my dad's originally from New York
(02:48):
my mom is from Shanghai
but they have been living in in
in Hong Kong or Asian Hong Kong of
I don't know
maybe like 45
50 years now and um
I think a lot of things that happened in my adolescence
probably brought me to where I am today um
(03:08):
I don't think I'm the best person to describe myself
because I'm pretty hard on myself anyways so um
I think it's just uh
I'm just someone that
I realized it just really like challenges
even though I do complain about them um
I feel that um
it brings the best of me when I'm in a context uh
(03:33):
where I'm outside of my comfort zone
basically uh
because you know
it's as if you're surfing a wave
and you don't know at what point you're gonna fall
but you're still riding the wave
there's gonna be a
come to a point where you're gonna fall
but that in like that
not knowing what's gonna happen
I think sort of attracts me and
I think a lot of things that I decided to do in my life
(03:59):
is basically based on that concept
because when I was 18
I went to New York to study at New York University
I study politics
and I did a minor in Italian
and I did politics because I honestly and
naively thought I was gonna save the world um
and I I I assume
(04:20):
as we all do
as we all did and uh
so I studied different kinds of politics
I lived in Prague
I studied Eastern European politics
I lived in Italy
I did Italian politics
I mean all different from all the different continents
and concretely particular countries
and then I had done some internships as well
the one that marked me the most
(04:41):
was the International Criminal Court
which they do have
it is based in The Hague
but they do have an office uh
in New York City
and I realize that even though we were all trying to
you know make a change um
the change that comes is much later
and it's 0.0001% of this supposed change and it was
(05:07):
it was me going with the passion
but at the same time fighting against the current
and I had always felt that
maybe I will never see some sort of establish change no
like physical change or oh
why did this
and now you know
the world is a much better place um
so I told my parents that I wanted to have a gap here
(05:33):
before doing a Masters
and travel world and volunteer
because I had done that already I
I had gone to India
was there for about 6 months as well
and I just wanted to go to different places
and figure out what I really wanna do um
but my mother told me that no
you need to go do a masters now
because Asian culture was actually
(05:53):
Asian moms or Chinese moms are very you know
you know they they
they know what you
what they want you to have the best
and I think that she just wanted to push me to
or gear and guide me to where I was supposed to go
and so I said okay fine
and so I went to London
I went to London School of economics
(06:15):
and I studied masters in Human rights
because I really thought I was still within this
you know this
the world of non profit
and helping people and trying to make a change
but I was more than convinced at that point that
it wasn't for me
(06:35):
I did finish the Masters
but I remember I was speaking to a friend of mine
who at the time
got into law school
and her father was a lawyer or quite a
quite a well known barrister actually
in Hong Kong and um
so she was gonna go to law school as well and she
(06:55):
after two weeks she quit
and I was in this moment of my life
I don't know what to do
but I'm gonna finish my masters
but what should I do
and she's like
what do you like to do
and then we just ended up just having a conversation
and she had just started an internship
in an organization in London called escape the city
which is I don't know if you heard about it
but it's basically a startup where they help people
(07:19):
around 25 to 35 years
old who went the conventional way of let's do
let's be a lawyer
let's work in finance
let's be a doctor
for example
but actually
the real passion is to be a dancer
or to be a photographer
but they didn't have the funds to start from zero
so escape the city
help them do that
which I thought was amazing
actually and um
(07:40):
so she was already in this mood like yeah
do what you want to do and be happy
and I said yeah
well you know
you know I like to cook
but it wasn't something
it was something that I
you know was a hobby um
I don't have that
story where I cooked with my grandmother in the kitchen
the only thing I do know is I really love to eat
and I like to try different things
(08:02):
and I think that growing up in Hong Kong
and being able to travel around the world also
widened the palate
and so secretly
I applied to culinary school in Paris
called Econ Faldi
and within France
nationally it's quite well known
and when I got in
I thought okay
(08:23):
I'm not gonna ask my parents to also pay for
the studies
so I applied for a grant at James Beard Foundation
right so it's a foundation that supports
chefs who are US citizens around the world
and I got the grant
and so I thought that there was
how crazy did I gone to a culinary school
having no culinary background
(08:43):
and then getting a grant from Jade's Beard um
and I guess I wrote a compelling essay
um so yeah so
then I ended up going to culinary school in Paris
which I had loved and uh
and I thought that if I was really gonna do this
so my passion for food at this point was
I would call myself a foodie definitely
(09:04):
because I really like to try different places
and I think Paris
at the time
where I was there
was the boom of bistronomy
you know like
the kids that were
I mean the young chefs that worked in
I Learned you
cast Piagena
and all these top restaurants
opening their bistro
that was Neo Bistro
and it was right at that moment
and I thought it was a great moment to be in Paris
(09:25):
actually and
so I thought
if I really was gonna do this
for my passion for food
I'm gonna pick the hardest place I can find to do
an intuition
at the time okay
now probably has changed so it was
so the three star Mission restaurant
and it was yeah
it was definitely
one of the hardest things I've ever done
(09:45):
because you have one foot in your old world
where you can always go back
right to be a lawyer or whatever
but and you have one foot in the new world
and the hardest part is taking that second foot
that's in the old world and bringing that forward
and whatever happens happens
right and um
(10:06):
so I did the internship uh
yeah I was I didn't I
I wondered if all kitchens were the same
right so when I had finished uh
my dream at the time was to go to Abu
but they had closed in that year
so my second
I want my other choice was
and say it like a little cow
but they didn't have any spots
(10:27):
so I went to Mulatte okay
and when I was there
I realized that
it was a different way of thinking for me
it was very
it wasn't a pyramid style hierarchy for me at the time
it was very lineal in the fact that um
I was an intern
(10:47):
but I had a voice
and if I asked a question about why you would do it
the way you would do it
they would always give you an explanation in my head
in my previous internship
it wasn't really that experience
so I felt it was much more welcoming and um
and yeah I I stayed there for a year
(11:10):
I ended up in the
in the closed part of Emma's day
which I loved as well and
because of paperwork I
I couldn't stay
um so I did end up going to it
say it okay
which I thought was a great uh
another great restaurant
were more family style because you know
(11:30):
you're the brothers
and you eat in the parents restaurant
the old restaurant
and I think had a great time
and also gave me another perspective of how you
you know treat astronomy
um and actually
I was about to go to Farvican
okay when uh
Danny Lasa called me actually
and asked me to come back
cause he knew I really wanted to come back
mm hmm and yes
(11:52):
I came back in 2,013
and as a shifted party
and after being there one year
I thought that
um I would like to travel the world
because I was a nomad the other part of my life
and just work in different kitchens right
um and just at that moment they
there was a woman head chef at Moogres called Julieta
(12:16):
and she had
she left and so they had to fill the spot
and so they asked Juan and I
to be two head chefs at the same time
and I thought that I saw
on the one hand
is they travel the world and be a chef
or be a head chef at movement
and I thought
that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity
(12:38):
because I had started really late in the game
I mean I started after a master
so this at this point
I was 23 mm hmm
and I always had
thought that I was always behind from everyone else
because I even
I even told Danny this
I told him that
I know I'm not the best chef
but I do have the opportunity to travel the world
(13:00):
and eat in different restaurants
and I know how to eat
and I think you need to know what's going on to not
or just not be so focused on what you're doing on
right in one particular
you need to see and um
so that was my plus I guess um
and after one year being head chef again
I thought I was gonna go travel the world
(13:21):
and be chef departi
or head chef from another restaurant
and right at that time Oswaldo
who was in Ema's day
he left and they had offered me his spot
and again I thought
this is definitely a once in a lifetime
because enough days
you know it's like you know
and I accepted
(13:42):
and I stayed another three more years
so I stayed until 2,017 and 2,017
and it was great
because you know
Emma's day was a whole
whole other ball game for me
different way of thinking
surrounded by people very creative
I never thought myself
I was very creative
but you know
as as and Donnie likes to say
(14:03):
if you surround yourself with people
who are very creative
you then become
get infected
right so yeah
funnily enough
I've seen like
some of your books
because I used to spend these
when you had these big break shifts
I used to go up in the library and
spend some time at the most
bottom shelf
yes there are still like
I wouldn't say books
but these spiral
bounded files yes
you and Lila
so you and someone else
(14:24):
oh see I wouldn't say
these are not creative ideas
what I've seen
yeah yeah I know
there was a little bit of everything
there's a little bit of everything
but yeah but
so during my time at Moog reads
I got it more into the world of wine as a consumer
I think I've always consumed wine
but I was very into French wine because in Hong Kong
(14:44):
the wines that they import are either French
Italian or Australian and so
you know I consumed but without any knowledge
when I came to Spain I
well I figured out that there were different areas
with really interesting wines
I had visited ladio ha a few times
(15:04):
until one time
one Somalia
Nico who is now an Elcano
uh told me that I should visit this couple
uh in this small little town in some Ethente
um so I went
and we started a friendship uh
and who and they eventually became my mentors actually
(15:26):
and the year I left Moogritz I
to be honest I
I think what I felt was what I felt when I left
human rights
it wasn't I
I felt I don't know at what point
what could I do more
and how could I push myself more
(15:46):
so I thought I should have just started from zero again
so this is literally almost
a little bit more than 10 years later
restarting again
and I remember this couple
I've been Mendoza and my day his wife
how can you start again from zero and you are 31 or 32
(16:08):
and I said if I don't try it
I I'll never figure it out
I'll never know
and I'm always gonna have this feeling of like
what if yeah
and I think that's what had happened when I studied
when I finished my masters
is what if I just try
and if it fails
it fails but I
I don't know
I felt that feeling again
but 10 years later
(16:29):
no knowledge of how to make wine
and they basically
they taught me everything I know now um
the project is very young
it started in 2,019
in the wine world
you're compared to all these wineries that are 100
200 years old
even 50 years old
um but yeah
(16:49):
I think that uh
being very meticulous and
I like to know how things are made
and I think this curiosity has LED me to where I am
whether it's a good idea or a bad idea
and yeah so I started with about 800 bottles in 2,019
(17:09):
and now four years later
I would say it's about 5,000 bottles
so slowly it's growing
it's becoming more important
uh people are very receptive
so I'm very lucky um
and people are repeating their orders
which also makes me feel that I am doing
(17:30):
at least an acceptable wine
um but yeah
I feel a lot of things of course
that I Learned from agreeds
really trap
like translate it into the wine
because winemaking for me is almost like cooking
but long term
so because you know
at the end of fermentation and maceration
are terms that are also used in the kitchen
(17:52):
uh the only difference is uh
in the kitchen
you can make a dish today
and then make it again in a few hours
even tomorrow
uh but with wine making
as you know
it's a harvest is one time a year
uh you're really dependent on nature
and on the sun and the rain and the
(18:13):
and the heat and other factors
and that can either make or break your
your vintage basically
and the reaction is well
the product comes out one year later
approximately
and another difference
that I realized just the other day
is that in a kitchen
you can see the reactions of the people when they eat
but I don't know what people
(18:33):
feel when they drink the wine yeah
and it goes
right now it's about
in 13 different markets
in 13 different countries
and you don't know what this person
you don't have that feedback
unless it's on social media
so it's also quite scary right
I remember
when I first started
(18:54):
a lot of people very receptive on the wine
and it put me on a different platform
and I think I'm very lucky for that
but there's also
there's always gonna be a pro and a con with that
you know they start comparing you with
people that been making wine for a while and I mean
I'm not here to to be a
I'm not here to compete
I'm here because it makes me happy and
(19:18):
don't know if this is my final stride
maybe 40 something I'll do something else
but for now it's
it's become a vocation
it's become a life project mm hmm
and yeah the only thing I can do is always improve
so the way I make wine is as I make wine I learn
(19:40):
which is a bit risky
because at the end of the day
it's trial and error yeah
so just might
it's almost like an R amp d right
when they're creating the dishes mm hmm
but you get to recreate and recreate it
but this is okay
I'm gonna do this little tweak
I'm not gonna ferment it like this
I'm gonna ferment it like that
and sometimes it's a win
and sometimes it's not so much a win
(20:00):
but going with that
what about like uniformity
because now you're selling a product which goes by
a brand which goes by of course
people understand the concept behind natural wines
and they all have
everybody has his own character and things like that
but you still supposed to deliver
compared to doing addition
Margaret's where the idea is that everything
is cut organically and should not look square
I would say
right right
(20:22):
how easy it is
because therefore you die
you're serving 50 diners a night
in a very controlled condition of how they consume
and where they can zoom in
temperature and all these things
how do you feel like
bringing that philosophy into your business now
is it the same
or you had to relearn some values for like
wine consumers compared to fine dining food consumers
(20:43):
I feel it's a little bit more cutthroat
the wine I maybe because you don't see
yeah again likes going back to like
seeing the reaction or seeing what they think I'm not I
I'm not saying that
that my product is the best product on the market
because I know it's not
but it's an interpretation
from someone who is an outsider
(21:03):
who is not from Spain
who has no links to any sort of viticultural
history or family that has vines or worked in wine
it's someone who very much appreciates
respects this region
and it's interpretation of
of a pre a former chef and a person that really is a
(21:23):
is a consumer of wine and I
what I do say to the people who
either distribute my wine or buy my wine is I
I don't I couldn't
I don't think I can be consistent
because I'm still figuring out my style
because in NY they was
what kind of style
why do you make
(21:44):
I don't even know how to answer that question
because I'm
I'm still figuring out what I like
I'm gonna make a white wine
how I'm gonna make it
okay this year
I'm a little bit more happier than last year
because I feel like there's an improvement
because I've changed the technique
because I've changed grapes
but I can't guarantee
that next year is gonna be the same
because again
you're based on nature
that's one hand
and second hand
(22:04):
I'm still learning
I mean I've only been doing this for four years
so it's always a bit of a gamble
that's what I sell
is inconsistency
I mean I don't
yeah I think that's the only thing I can say
is that every year
vintification will change
depending on what I feel is best
but I'm not saying that it is the answer
(22:26):
and that's gonna be the style that defines me
I feel like right now
there is no style
mm hmm yeah
that's lovely
I think I think I connect with you a lot of things
I have myself moved a lot actually
was a somebody who was a very
I think it's something very Indian as well
I don't know how many people from
how many countries relate with that
very patriotic
I think it's
patriotism is taught to you even from like
school stage
(22:46):
and I was gonna be in the army
in the Navy
and things like that
actually ended up being in activism
being a part of a political party
before I could actually vote
and then coming from that into gastronomy
was a very sudden like
the only thing
the one thing similar I found in both of these things
is that they both
I don't know if many industries do that
I think many people take their work
(23:07):
and job is something they do as a part of the day
and they get out of it
I think what I found in
I was in a left wing political party
borderline communist
and they had
when I was in that
every conversation I had with people outside work
was all only about it
or even like
value stemming from it
where it's like
you're in such a big bubble
where you feel that
(23:29):
you know that what you're doing is right
and it's gonna be
maybe it's not the answer
but it's somewhat
it's got it's a better option compared to what's in in
in trend today
I would say
how do you connect that
was that something which challenged me a lot
because then when I started traveling
while working for a said restaurant
I started seeing new concepts or like
questioning things that I was basing my
(23:50):
say food philosophy or like dining philosophy on
um is there also something you relate with
on these two fields
specifically
I would say human rights activism
politics and gastronomy
um there's always politics in the kitchen uh huh
so that came handy
that came quite handy
um I think um
I think that was actually a
(24:11):
one of the themes
no of mad yeah
also two years connecting across border
something with Pitts politics as well
politics and immigration and yeah
I was supposed to go to that one
actually okay
I think that's a big theme to handle
I feel that there's I mean
not only go show me
there's a lot of things that go
that goes on around the world in terms with that are
(24:33):
that has a little bit of politics
a little bit immigration
a little bit of workers rights
human rights um
it's I think it's something that unless you have
I mean you have organizations like mad
that really treat the problem
but I think it's really important to also act upon it
and you can have governments
(24:54):
like maybe Denmark and Sweden and Norway
who a little bit more
I guess support more their citizens and more welcoming
but then you have other countries
a little bit more closed
so I think it's a little complicated
I think it depends on where you find yourself in
and coming from
like I mean
you born in Hong Kong
but I think it also gives you perspective
(25:15):
was what restoration is like
you've traveled to India
as you said
you've traveled to south southeast nature
how do you see coming from a culture where
for me I mean
for me this interview is pretty easy
because I'm basing the questions I would ask myself
okay this is bouncing it off your head
and to see what your reaction is like
how do you see
for example
if I if I like
I'm also the black sheep of the family
(25:36):
every kid in India is either doctor
lawyer engineer
my brother for example
is in mechanical engineer
same as in exactly
so which is why it's easy for me to ask these questions
um when I said
I want to do this
they didn't
I used to like
first I used to like
dump it down
what I'm doing
but then I said
you know actually
I should tell them more of what I'm doing
and maybe like
simplify it
(25:56):
and things like that
but still the gap is so big
compared to where
not only the amount of disposable income people have
I think there are people
in Bombay right now who can buy half of San Sebastian
wouldn't care about it
but they wouldn't put the same money on dining out
no or on a natural wine
which has its own character
but then the
these are places also where you eat
(26:17):
like exactly
different I mean
it's so crazy
they have such a
like diversity
uh huh and so much power
and it's so rich in that
you know that part of culture
that it's so funny that
at the same time
yeah they don't put
I don't know how you would say
like not value
but I don't know it's
I remember when I told my parents
(26:37):
I was going to culinary school
like like for my mom
for example
in Asian culture
or in Chinese culture
it's either doctor
lawyer or finance
right so I was going to the lawyer right and
being a chef
maybe back then
now it's maybe it's a little different
you know it didn't look so good because
(26:59):
and although there's a diversity in terms of food
is in China
but in an Asian general
obviously every single country
every single province has their little
you know particular style of food um
they love to eat out they love
you know everything
that's very interesting
but at the same time
if you say that that's gonna be your vocation
your passion
(27:20):
it's like almost frowned upon right
uh so when I told my parents I was gonna make wine
I think at this point
do whatever
you just do whatever you want um
because we can't say anything but no
I think they've seen how I've grown
have a change as a person and now
being an entrepreneur is their entrepreneurs themselves
I think that
(27:41):
you know it also
you know it gives him a little bit like
respect as well now
but it was it was not it's
it's still not easy
but it hasn't been an easy ride in general so
the only thing is
to really have that passion and push forward
I mean you really have to believe in what you're doing
(28:04):
to give you strength
not so much physical
I think it's really emotional and mental and um
if you don't have that
it's really not worth it I think
because you'll be bogged down really easily
you know it's really fighting for what you want
like really going against the current all the time
(28:26):
and sometimes it's quite tiring
um sometimes you feel a little bit more down right
I feel your
you have highs and lows
right as as as
as everybody
but it's really fighting against the current
but for me it's not only just having changed completely
the pro I mean
from being a chef to now winemaker um
(28:48):
I still don't consider myself a winemaker
to be honest
I don't even know what I would call myself
this is Jeff trying to make wine um
but I think it's also
for me it's um
it's I'm not using it as a justification
but you know
there's not a lot of female winemakers
there's not a lot of foreign winemakers
(29:11):
that starting a project from scratch
I know for example
there are a lot of Japanese winemakers in France
and I think they're quite well supported
but in Spain I you know
a lot of the women either have some sort of relation
and if not there's
there's Spanish
and physically
you know I I feel
(29:31):
I feel at the beginning was harder for me
because physically
obviously I look Asian or half Asian and um
that also was a struggle for
acceptance and you know
in a society
in a tradition that's quite very local you know
so breaking that bear also
(29:52):
you need a lot of
balls yeah I think it's a big
I think it's a big move to
like for you
I think it's challenging some things
like what we do
or before we like
start questioning that okay
it's gonna be some challenging
for somebody to accept it
I think for ourselves
we are the ones
we're actually making that bigger question
for you to like
go out there and not just put your name
but if face on that bottle
I think that's a loud step
(30:13):
which would definitely open the pay of the wafer
for the label to come through
what I wanted to ask through this is that
there's always this
I'm with somebody who relates a lot with the point of
this discomfort
I still think that it's much easier to deal with
failure than to deal with regret
I do things which I think would go wrong definitely
but I still do them for the heck of doing it
(30:35):
but then again
being in a in a field like being a chef
I think many passions
which I had back then
when I was in a
in a daily chef's job
it leaves you very little space to dream
because you're so occupied
and of course you dream
but to act upon it
it's easier to make excuses
because you're actually very occupied
compared to say
you were in human rights
(30:57):
working at the ICC
or you're working at it in a bank job
you would have those evenings
at those times
to think about your passion and actually think that
okay I could sign up for this
I could do that
how do you keep that passion alive part
first part would be that
the second part would be
are there moments
because for me
I can definitely say
there are moments where I have taken
(31:17):
for example
this podcast
The Passion Project
there are points of it where I'm like
receiving messages from people
how much they're liking it and everything
but there are parts of me which are like
I'm coming home in the evening
editing it and doing these things
but it's actually becoming tiring now
yeah and to balance it out
to know that
how far do you wanna go
because the idea you started
it was like
to be happy from it
but now it's become a job
(31:37):
so it does have those bad days yeah
how do you deal with that
or something doesn't happen to you magically
dealing with it it's it's
it depends on your emotional state
I think but uh
the the the passion project I mean uh
or your passion project is my passion project in wine
right uh huh um
(31:58):
I think that
as you said
it was much easier than
because it was just being happy making wine
and 800 bottles
800 bottles for me at the time was a lot
but actually in the world of wine it's nothing
it's quite it's quite small um and uh
I really I think that I can only speak for myself uh
(32:22):
I just wanna see how far I can go
and it's really biting the bullet a lot of times um
there's still a lot of politics involved
you have to always
there's always gonna be something with
politically incorrect
politically correct um
I feel that uh
(32:43):
it's I think it's more showing for myself
where I want to go
but also I mean
I'm not saying that I'm gonna be you know
the poster girl for everyone else who's a foreigner
wants to make wine
come and do that I
I mean I don't consider myself that
but I feel that it would hopefully in the future
(33:03):
would maybe invite or entice more young people
to make wine and work in the Vineyard with actually
agriculture is a very difficult field
a lot of people are not wanting to
because you get very little from it
you're faced with a lot of variables at all times um
(33:26):
and how to deal with the UPS and downs
you need to be able to disconnect
I think for me I
I Learned that at Mugris um
because as you said
you're so in it that you don't
see it with a perspective ever
right and it becomes your reality and becomes your
I sleep thinking about it
(33:47):
I wake up seeing us
maybe I'd be dreaming about it um
and I think for me
I was very strict on my day off as my day off
that's the allocated day off
but a lot of people didn't really understand that
and they thought that I was just lazy
but I wasn't
I when if everyone if
(34:10):
if everyone had a day off and you call them
they don't answer
so I should also be able to be able to at least live
for at least a few hours not thinking that
by the end of the day
you're still thinking about it
you I mean maybe it's just a justification
but I feel that disconnect is really important
so for me the disconnect is being here
(34:34):
because if I'm
if I'm in Latino ha
I think I would be in the winery at all times and no
no disconnect
and I think it's really important
whether it's one day
two days or exercise
or being with friends or just going out and living
and feeling that you do have a life
that you're not just binded by by that um
I think it's really important for emotional stability
(34:56):
I think um if not because I'm also very
again I can only speak for myself I have I'm
I would say I'm a very
I don't know how to say
I think I'm very passionate about what I do
I defend it to the core
but I'm also very obsessive and very perfectionist
(35:19):
and I'm the hardest critic that I know about myself
so when I try wine and I
my own wine
and I think I'm the most critical person
so no one else can be as critical as me um
saying all these things
it's really important for me to disconnect
yeah because if not
I think I would just go crazy at this point
(35:39):
you know it would be
I'm very serious with what I do
and I really don't like to bother other people
I'm really doing my own thing
and yeah I think I take it
obviously I take it very seriously
because it's the life project right now um
but yeah so
dealing with UPS and down is definitely being able to
(36:02):
to disconnect and be very patient
I also I remember when I
when I left the kitchen
I started making wine
I was I told my mentors
I'm gonna buy this barrel
I'm gonna put the wine like this
and I'm gonna buy this machinery
and he's like
whoa whoa whoa
you need to
like relax because the world of wine is very slow
(36:22):
need to have a lot of patience
and sometimes
things don't come out the way that you want them to
so for me it's a daily struggle
and patience yeah um
because I'm
I'm a sort of character that I want
and I want it now uh
and I'd rather do the on my own to do it faster as well
so that's something that I
(36:43):
I deal with um
but I've I've Learned to
things happen for a reason
and whether plans out or not um
yeah you just have to be able to
be acceptant of your current situation
and be very adaptable
be very be very malleable
and I think being malleable
(37:05):
I Learned that from my time at Mugrid
because in Mugrid's
you know when you were an intern
you would change stations well
when I was there every 2
3 months yeah
the dishes was also changed
you would then have to adapt the recipe um
and you're always outside of your
comfort zone a little bit
right because you're there with other chefs
(37:26):
and you're not competing
but you're still competing
um and I think that's something that I value very much
for my time there
and actually made me a stronger person
and I think without that
I wouldn't be where I am now for sure
yeah I think
I really like the point where you set about these
I think setting these boundaries for yourself is like
something so challenging
when you're like
so driven and you believe so much in something
(37:48):
it just drives you crazy
if you don't set those boundaries
and I think for every form of relationship
with people or with your work
or with your passion or whatever it is
it's yeah it's so important
it's so nice to see and so much to learn from
the way you approached it
while having to like
juggle between so many roles
and then still managing to do that
it's quite inspirational
(38:09):
I want to like
I remember you saying
back in the beginning of the podcast that you do not
like you subtly touch the theme of like
you do not know what's next
and for me that's something which scares me
because I love the discomfort so much
I always complain
I'm not saying that I'm the coolest guy
who loves the discomfort
and it's like joyful
no I complain
I always complain
I complain constantly to everybody
(38:30):
you know I hate
for the past four years
I've moved every 8 months
actually I just completed 8 months I'm scared
why is it not happening
and actually
we're sitting right now
people on the podcast can't see it
in a curtainless room
and last week
I was discussing with a friend
should I buy a curtain
and the first thought in my head was
you know what
if I buy the curtain
I have to find someone to sell it when I'm going
(38:52):
and there's no plan of me moving
there should be no reason I should be moving
but it's just so attractive
the idea of being uncomfortable and knowing what's next
how do you balance that out
like how do you balance this hunger for
because all things which are idolized in the world
be it a job
be it a passion
be it a business
the goal of it is stability
(39:15):
which not all of us would value
stability at that stage of life where we are
at any stage of life
maybe I mean
how do you juggle between that
stability is important for you
to run the numbers and to produce the dot
go down the number of bottles you're producing today
but also to enjoy your hunger for instability
(39:35):
of course no
I think my stability is instability
that should be a T-shirt
that should be a T-shirt
right no but
um you know
it's funny because in the world of wine
they do like consistency
right and they do like stability
because they wanna have a producer that eventually the
the your path is
every year I'm gonna make more
(39:57):
right and obviously improve on the wine
but every I'm gonna make more
and be more accessible to a lot of people
right now I can't do that
because I'm a one person project
I don't have staff
I do it on my
sometimes you know
I have a few friends that come and help
obviously that is a huge help
but during the year
I'm basically on my own
except for harvest as well but
(40:18):
the stability for me need to be
I need to have stability
when I'm on a break or when I'm disconnecting
yeah that's a stability okay
to make me be able to live
with the daily instability of wine
(40:39):
I think actually
it's really cool that you're asking me this
because I've never really thought about it
so everything that's coming out of my mouth right now
it's really first time I'm thinking about it
but I feel that I need to have a stable
life outside of whatever project I'm in
for me to then recuperate
and then get back into the game and face
(41:02):
whatever happens
every time I go to Lido is like something happening
you know it's either rained a lot
or it didn't rain
and it's dried up or
I don't know
something with the wine
and so I for me to be able to like
just really
like reflect
it's really important to have a stable life
that could be anything
I mean I'm not a
for me stability is having freedom and being okay what
(41:23):
I'm gonna travel
or I'm gonna be able to have a
go have a drink or eat at home or watch TV or something
just really random you know
I think it's really relative depending on the person
but um I I am
I'm a big complainer
and so I always complain that every time in the wine
I have to do something
and this thing came up
and I'm not able to focus on doing one particular task
(41:46):
because now I have 10 tasks
but I think at the end of day I do like
I do like it
because I like to
you know strike off my list of
my to do list of things that I need to do
but I think for me
as you said
like the disconnect is the stability
for me to survive the instability
(42:06):
that's that's lovely
I think it should
we should normalize that
I think we when we look at people
I think we all aspire a lot
I think coming from India
I also spy a lot with
I think cinema is a big part of our culture
for example
so we idolize
I don't know
if you're watching pursuit of happiness
and you see somebody's story
like Chris Gardner making it
it's only focusing on the 90 minutes of him
(42:27):
making those big moves
whereas and if we think that okay
that instability is what we should idolize
but we're not seeing the other hours of the
the man's life
who he's having a meal with his kid
or going out to a diner
and having pancakes in the morning and things like that
so I think it's so important to
that we shouldn't associate
all the values we look up to just with profession
(42:48):
I think which is something
which happens so commonly in the kitchen
because of course
the ratio of your time spent at work
is much higher than time spent by yourself
and also accepting that
drawing this boundary
as you said
of like my day off is my day off
and actually
you'll be more nutritive and productive for the
for the company when you're back on that
on that first day of work
I guess but that's very
(43:09):
that was very hard for them to accept mm hmm
because you
you need to be available 24 hours a day
yeah especially if you were
you know hired
yeah and you talking to the producers and suppliers
and things like that
to the market and then
or whatever
and then something happens
you need to go again to buy something else
or an intern is sick
and you need to bring them to the hospital
(43:29):
I mean there were so many things that you can never um
it was your responsibility at all times
you know and for me
I think maybe that's the reason why I did leave
is because I had more time to think
uh huh outside
when I was already an emails day
you know I it's a
you know it's a different department than
they have their hours
(43:50):
and they do service
but they don't always do service
so your your
your mind is in different fields
because you also work with people who are
outside of gastronomy
right and it all
it just made me had time to
to think and to think more for myself
because I think
for many years
I never really thought
thought about myself
I always thought about
(44:11):
I gave priorities that were not my own
it was I but I took it as if it was my own
I mean I treat him agrees
as if it was my own restaurant
and I'm sure a lot of people did that as well
right or still
people do um
and uh yeah
I think having that
possibility to just really reflect and think
(44:36):
is this what I really want to do
is it would it be crazy to make it another change
for a change um
I know different people who still work
in the culinary world
uh well now
a few of them living in
in Asia and you know
they wanna now
(44:57):
I don't know
practice yoga
and to have that you know
mental stability
and be able to go back to doing chef jobs
I mean you know
there's a little bit of everything
to be honest
but I think it's only
you realize it later
yeah you don't realize it when you first start
yeah yeah I think again
I would say it's again because
you're not highlighting the things we should highlight
(45:19):
and I think retrospect in
regarding these retrospects are so important
I always say that
in the quest of learning what I want to learn
like how things should be done
I've Learned volumes of how to not do things constantly
and I think it's important that we
we keep them close
I think because it's also a phase of
I think it's a learning curve
where you do things you're not supposed to do or like
(45:39):
you're in environments you're not supposed to be in
I think it really nourishes you
when you look back and realize that
okay I did it
but I'm glad that I'm out of it now
and I like tomorrow
and I'm in a position of
change things
and actually be the one that command
there are things to be done
and I think we are all supposed to go through that
that phase by this beautiful song
that the topics you highlighted
(46:00):
I think to wrap up this conversation a little bit
of all the directions
like all the wire directions we've
we've gotten this
it would be interesting to know from you
um because most people listening
from what I hear from them are
are still chefs working in the restaurants every day
I think Covid has changed a lot
what happened in restaurants before
and how restaurants worked
and that has given people
(46:21):
a sort of a breather to look out
and there are so many
like I interviewed Huan the other day
the whole ecosystem of insurgence of Arsenal
we heard of people
valuing things outside the kitchen
and approaching gastronomy through different aspects
I would like to know from you
people who are in the kitchens today
who have ideas
be it wine or be it something else
(46:41):
of just doing something
you you exactly would know the things that limit them
that I know
that things that limit you from taking that plunge
could be financial monetary
I think people think that's the biggest thing
but I think that's the smallest hurdle
the financial part of things
although it might look big
but there are so many mental hurdles which you have to
(47:02):
go upon like
how would you want to
like if you could say a few words of how
what should they focus on
as a motivation to do something
not because the restaurant scene is bad
or working restaurant is bad
but because
maybe there is so much more to you that you can explore
and if you're in a restaurant
if you're in a kitchen
you should be there because you choose to be there
not because you do not know any other way out
(47:24):
no I think that you're definitely
I think the financial aspect
seems like it's a big topic
but at the end of the day
if you can put that aside um
it's you living your life right
you're not gonna live anyone else's life
(47:44):
and from what we know
we only live once
um and I think it's really
follow your passion
and uh for me
there was one rule that I
or one packed
I made with myself when I left politics
to do kitchen
and then kitchen now to do wine
(48:05):
um no regret
don't look back
because if you keep on
if you if you soak on your regret
or you keep on looking the past
you really can't move forward
and that's something that my parents always had told me
I mean they're entrepreneurs themselves
and they started with not much
to be honest
and they were able to do many
(48:26):
many things
and it's really going with your gut I mean
let's say right now
you're in the kitchen
and you've been there for a few years
and you realize you wanna do more
but you just don't know what it is
but that's okay
you don't need to know
you don't need to have the answer
I didn't know I was gonna make wine
I left in 2,017
and I made wine 2,019
(48:46):
so I had a 2,018 as a bit
like dabbling a little bit of everything
doing consultants in it
until I figured out that yeah I
I wanna make wine
and it's okay
I think a lot of people thought it was crazy though
at this point
but I think you need to have really
a lot of confidence in yourself
don't be influenced by others
because everyone's gonna have an opinion
(49:07):
whether beneficial to you or not um
just believe in yourself
really go with your gut I mean there's nothing
I mean I can't
I was gonna say there's nothing to lose
but I mean I really
it's really
it's really
that's also very relative
I think you need to
(49:28):
yeah just be happy
but this is coming from me after you know
from 18 to 33 I was doing different things
you know I studied
like you said
politics and human rights in the kitchen um
think it's important to just go with your gut
whether or not you know what you're gonna do or not
(49:48):
I think not knowing is the most scary thing
the unknown is the unknown
obviously of failing or success
that's also a big issue
I think that's even a bigger issue than the financial
it's failure to your own eyes
but also failure
two people around you
I think that's
(50:08):
it's a fear
it's a fear
you know people
a lot of people
I mean I'm myself included
I am afraid of failing
because I've committed so much of my time
and I've committed also
you know financially
quite a lot
that if it all goes downhill
don't know how I would feel about that right
so I think that
(50:31):
there's always gonna be a gamble
but I feel that you just have to go with your gut
and if you want to stay in the kitchen
but you want to do something with kitchen
related to other fields
that's also super cool
because I think now it's more accepted than before
I think now
there's many more opportunities than there was
and I think now the field actually is quite interesting
(50:53):
actually working astronomy
because there's so many things you can do
astronomy and science
or gastronomy and tech
astronomy and cinema
or music I mean
or even wine and food
I mean there's a lot of things that back in the day
they didn't really have those opportunities
right um I mean
everyone that's in the kitchen
I feel they're quite strong
(51:14):
yeah right just to begin with
yeah you have to deal with all those things
you're really strong mentally
physically even though you feel like
really bogged down sometimes
which is normal
but it's really
biting the bullet and just fighting
for what you love
to be honest
exactly I think the idea of the podcast is this
because sometimes we know all these things
(51:36):
but I think it makes so much more sense
you're hearing it from somebody who's done it
and also I loved how in every phase of it
you highlighted how that part of mogurites
or any said kitchen
helped you apply it
so I think people should value that
it's too late
I have to study
I don't know
anthropology
at the age of 40
you have to but then
there's so much from your past that's going to help you
(51:57):
that's not time gone in vain
also the way you sell it
I think it's so much easier to live with
I failed then
I could have
I should have
I would have all these questions like
it's a sad life to live if
there is this big question Mark looming over your head
you know so I love the conversation we've had
it's been so fruitful I think
(52:17):
thank you for taking time out
I think everybody is hearing now
has no like
knows completely how busy your schedule is
I hope they can all bear with my voice
that has been done for the past 5 days and now
thank you so much Jade
for taking time out
thank you so much for your time
and thank you for inviting me
so that's it from this week's episode of Boy Address
a podcast where we bring to you
(52:38):
the voice of the fugitive chefs
if you like listening to these interviews
do subscribe to us
so that you do not miss out on any of these episodes
you can also find us on Instagram and YouTube
as Boy Address Podcast
we release new episodes every Tuesday
alternating between English and Spanish
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.