Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
I'm Liz.
So,
and this is Ghosts in The Burbs,
a podcast of ghost stories from Wellesley Massachusetts,
a warning adults who use adult language told me these frightening tales.
These ghost stories aren't for kids.
A million trillion quadrillion.
Thanks to everyone who ordered a ghost in the Burbs baseball t-shirt.
(00:27):
You all raised $783.70.
I round it up and together we will donate $800 to heading home.
Thank you for making this such a happy 44th birthday fundraiser.
Well,
life is definitely Laing at the moment.
So I'm getting this story to you later than I'd hoped.
(00:48):
So.
Thank you for your continued never ending patience.
And as for this next interview,
well,
sometimes we have moments in this long winding journey of offshoots and dead ends that we're on together where we have to take a moment to catch up a bit.
Kate Divis interview is one of those moments.
It's kind of a connect the dots moment,
(01:09):
but like so many things we've encountered,
there aren't really any answers here.
Just more dots.
But onward,
we'd stumble loose ends and all we're on to ghost story number 71.
He said,
she said,
(01:30):
hold on.
What do you mean already?
I'm surprised she's ready to talk.
Claire replied,
Shiftily ready to talk about what I pressed the stuff she's been up to.
Ok.
I got out of the car and stomped into Starbucks,
ordered a coffee and texted Betty to ask if she could come meet me.
(01:53):
She showed up 13 minutes later.
What does she mean already that he demanded?
That's exactly what I said.
But she got all vague.
Is Claire here?
Now,
I shook my head back bit.
He muttered.
So when are you going to meet her?
You cannot go to her house.
(02:13):
I know that.
And I haven't even texted her back.
I can't.
Right.
You have to.
She cursed her neighbor's entire family.
I argued.
Mitchell's wife saw raw chicken crawl across her countertop gross.
She laughed.
I totally forgot about that part.
I just want to pretend I never saw that text.
(02:36):
You can't fuck.
I sighed,
Betty scammed the coffee shop.
Are there any ghosts here?
Now?
I gave her a look.
Uh There's an old guy with that mom and her stroller.
She looked her way,
not even trying to conceal her interest starting to kind of wish I could do that.
(02:57):
She sighed.
Turning back.
No,
you don't.
I muttered as the old man's ghost started our way.
I agreed to meet Kate Dovish at Cabra the Friday before Easter weekend.
Good Friday to some Claire informed me that she would not be in attendance.
(03:19):
That woman runs with heavy hitters.
It's not my scene.
Should I be worried?
You'll be worried no matter what?
I sighed.
True.
As usual,
Claire was right filled with the usual anxiety.
I loaded up on every piece of protective jewelry.
I owned a bunch of crystal bracelets.
(03:40):
My Saint Benedict metal necklace,
a black tle ring and a pretty evil eye bracelet that I had recently won at a raffle fundraiser for the girls elementary school.
I didn't believe any of it would do a goddamn thing,
but I figured it couldn't hurt by all accounts,
Kate Delves was an extremely powerful witch.
I made up my mind to be polite,
(04:01):
listen to what she had to say and then get the hell out of there before she could hex me over the years.
The woman has grown into a spooky terror in my mind,
someone to be avoided at all costs.
I expected her to be intimidating,
vindictive,
powerful,
whatever Chris and I had seen in that tunnel near Sabrina Lake.
(04:22):
It used her image to convey that terror.
She obviously messed around with diabolical forces.
I expected her to be a total bitch.
And as per usual,
my assumptions were wildly off base.
I got to the bakery early.
I usually have to be intentional about not showing up to places too early unless my kids are somehow involved in the plan.
(04:46):
Then all bets are off.
But in this case,
I was my usual 15 minutes ahead of time hoping to get my coffee,
scope out a good table and then sit and fret until Kate arrived.
To my surprise.
She'd beat me there.
Hi.
She called out all friendly smiles from a table up near the front windows.
(05:06):
Grab your coffee.
I got scones.
Ok,
thank you.
I replied,
thrown off,
the woman seemed genuinely happy to see me addressing me like an old friend.
I moved quickly through the line and doctored up my iced coffee.
Cabra always has simple syrup,
which is such a treat.
That grainy sugar at the bottom of the cup is a true Ick Kate was talking on her cell as I approached the table,
(05:32):
she smiled,
widely mouthed,
sorry and held up a finger.
Mom.
I have to go,
I'll call you back around lunchtime.
Ok.
Love you too.
I sat down across from her as she slid her phone into a canvas tote at her feet.
Sorry about that.
We just moved my mom into assisted living and she's having some trouble getting acclimated.
(05:56):
She insists the women are snubbing her at the dining room.
I'm trying to get her to put herself out there,
you know,
but I get it.
It's hard to meet people anyway.
Here she shoved a white bag across the table.
I didn't know what you'd be in the mood for.
So I got both blueberry and current.
Wow,
thanks.
I replied acknowledging to myself that I should be suspicious of anything she offered me while also knowing I probably tuck into one of the pastries.
(06:23):
Anyway,
I took out a current scum and placed it on the napkin in front of me.
No decisions had to be made right at the moment about the food and I didn't want to be rude.
So Kate said a little too loudly.
Wow.
Ok.
She shook her hands at her side as though shaking water from them.
(06:43):
I'm sorry.
She apologized.
I've been so nervous about meeting you.
Really?
Why I said shocked.
She straightened her back and sat tall in her seat,
placing her hands in her lap.
I know what you think of me.
At least I know what Mitchell said about me and I don't know if I can change your mind.
(07:05):
Oh,
I said dumbly feeling embarrassed and guilty.
Like I'd been caught gossiping red-handed,
which I suppose I had brow furrow.
She went on raw chicken.
How would I even begin to make that happen?
I laughed despite the tension when you put it that way.
(07:26):
I mean,
yeah,
it sounds ridiculous but I trailed off.
But what?
Well,
he did say your husband brought over brownies.
He could have absolutely not.
No,
never.
Harry never would have done something so dangerous and illegal.
She blew out of breath in what appeared to be an attempt to calm herself down.
(07:49):
I am sorry.
It's just everything that lucky asshole said about my husband makes me absolutely furious.
Not one word of it was true.
And he can't defend himself.
Why not?
Because he's dead.
Oh God,
I am so sorry.
I didn't know she shook her head.
(08:10):
It's all right.
I wouldn't expect you to know she smoothed her hair back.
Look,
this wasn't the reason I wanted to meet you.
I don't want to give that fuck face Mitchell any more attention than he's already had.
But I won't sit by and let Harry's memory be trashed.
Of course,
I offered again.
(08:31):
I'm really sorry.
We sat in silence for a time,
Kate,
obviously fighting back tears.
I'd gone over that old interview with Mitchell Westcott that morning to refresh my memory.
And with the time and experience I'd had since I had spoken with him,
a lot of what he said,
it sounded a little outrageous.
(08:51):
On top of that,
Kate was nothing like he described.
But then again,
how hard was it to be pleasant and polite?
She could be acting?
I bit into the scone then asked why did you want to meet me?
I need your advice.
Uh uh She laughed and then wiped her nose with a napkin.
(09:12):
No,
really?
I,
I think I've gotten myself in over my head.
There was a woman standing behind her,
quietly watching us,
her expression calm,
but also a little blank as though she were made of stone.
I made eye contact with her hoping she might offer some piece of information,
but she simply met my gaze.
(09:34):
Her expression remained the same.
I realized I wouldn't be given any hints by what appeared to be Kate's guide.
You live near Sabrina Lake,
right.
Asked Kate.
I've seen you on the walking trails.
I do for now.
Anyway,
we're moving this summer.
Oh,
good.
That's good.
It's a beautiful part of town.
(09:55):
But you have little kids.
Right.
I felt my guard go up at the mention of my Children.
I do.
I don't mean to scare you.
Our neighborhood is totally fine.
Really?
They're safe.
I think she trailed off.
See,
from what I pressed.
Well,
that's the thing.
(10:15):
I'm not exactly sure.
I'm sorry.
I stopped listening to your podcast after that fucking love letter to the 19 fifties.
Made up all those lies about my husband and she pressed her lips.
Sorry,
I'm not here to talk about him.
Ok?
I just wondered if you've interviewed anyone who's noticed anything strange in our neighborhood?
(10:39):
I nodded.
Have you talked to your next door neighbor?
She shook her head.
I haven't been home much.
I've been helping my sister and getting my mom settled and can I be honest?
I shrugged.
Sure.
Living next to the Scots turned me off to the whole neighbor thing.
I moved to the lake for privacy.
(11:00):
Got it.
Well,
there is a tunnel beneath your neighbor's house that leads down to the lake.
Actually,
I hesitated for a moment before plowing ahead.
Well,
my husband and I went down there and we saw you.
What?
Yeah,
it was you.
But it wasn't you,
it couldn't have been,
(11:21):
I guess you were out of town.
She opened her mouth as if to say something and then closed it,
her lips,
a tight line.
Finally she said,
was that what that phone call from the Wellesley police was all about?
Yeah.
Sorry.
I confirmed.
she shook her head.
Not your fault.
(11:42):
Do you know what would mimic you?
Kate suddenly looked afraid I have an idea,
but I don't know if I can say I glanced at the beautiful woman behind her but her stony gaze offered nothing.
Kate noticed me looking over her shoulder.
What is it?
(12:04):
Uh It's gonna sound a little crazy.
Go ahead.
Well,
I can see like spirits and other stuff since when a couple of years without missing a beat.
She asked what's behind me?
A really beautiful stoic woman with long black shiny hair wearing a long green dress.
(12:28):
She kind of gives off a dark academia vibe.
Has she said anything to you?
Nothing.
Kate crossed her arms and seemed to shrink in on herself.
Fuck,
I took a bite of scone.
Then a sip of coffee.
Look,
I have to know what exactly went on with Mitchell and his family.
(12:53):
She could tell me about whatever drama she was struggling with or not for all I cared,
but I simply had to hear her side of that neighbor feud.
She actually smiled.
I hate to even think about that angry nerd,
but I guess it would feel good to finally set the record straight.
I just smiled at her Encouragingly.
(13:14):
OK,
fine.
That dip shit.
Bought an absolute lemon of a house.
Seriously,
the entire neighborhood felt bad for him and when he realized what a dip shit he'd been,
he lost his fucking mind.
Come on,
I laughed.
She looked around as if to check to see if anyone was listening to us then scooted her seat forward.
(13:36):
So the builder who did that house was like reliable for a time,
he built a couple of cute houses in town.
Actually,
Harry knew a guy who bought one and it was perfectly fine.
But as it turned out over time,
that builder started,
you know,
robbing Peter to pay Paul and he wasn't paying his subs and he started cutting on costs and you can guess how it all turned out.
(14:00):
Yeah,
Mitchell mentioned the crack foundation and beetle infestation.
Kate cut in,
rolling her eyes,
fucking idiot.
It doesn't take a black magic spell for bugs to get in your house or a cracked foundation.
Whatever,
we went over to introduce ourselves the day they moved in.
And again,
(14:21):
we were feeling kind of bad for them knowing the house was shoddy,
but we hope for their sake that it wasn't as bad as we suspected another neighbor down the street from us was,
well,
still is a contractor and he'd gone to the open house and he left with no doubt that certain corners were cut there.
Anyway.
We introduced ourselves and invited them to dinner.
(14:42):
Despite the fact that they are a little cold.
I thought it had to do with the age gap between Harry and me.
I could just feel the judgment rolling off Mitchell.
But Harry said I was being paranoid.
They're just a couple of New England Yuppies.
He insisted just gotta wear down the walls.
And I came to dinner,
another couple down the street was supposed to join us,
(15:03):
but they bailed at the last minute.
Which truly sucked.
She shrugged.
I don't know,
it was fine.
Some of our decor threw them for a loop.
I suspected they would have been more comfortable if we'd nailed huge crosses on every wall in our house.
We fielded a few thinly veiled jabs and they were definitely trying to feel out where we stood on.
(15:23):
All those little pet issues.
Conservatives love to obsess about.
I think the wife,
uh,
what's her face?
Maggie?
I supplied right.
Who knows how we got on the topic?
But at one point she referred to free school lunches as a handout.
Something like if these people can't afford to feed their kids lunch,
(15:43):
then how are they going to live in this town?
I tied gross.
Yeah.
Suffice to say we weren't a love match,
whatever.
We were relieved when the evening was over and felt like we'd done our neighborly duty.
Things were relatively normal for a time until the guy turned out to be a lucky fucking creep.
(16:04):
He was like,
always in that office window of his.
I caught him watching me work out more than once and all that bullshit about me doing some sort of satanic warrior dance thing yet.
No,
I was doing Tracy Anderson tapes.
I giggled,
fucking repressed weirdo.
She hissed,
(16:25):
he said he saw you were really upset.
Right?
Sure.
That was the whole thing.
If they had been nice kind,
neighborly,
people,
they would have wondered what was actually going on with us and not just layered their entire world view and spooky religious bullshit on top of us.
Then maybe he could have been a decent human being and asked if we were all right.
(16:47):
I'm sure he did see me have a breakdown in that workout room and I absolutely lost my ever loving mind over that ugly,
cheap ass synthetic fence.
That thing was a goddamn travesty and sure my reaction was wildly inappropriate.
There's no question about that.
It gives me bone deep embarrassment to even think about it.
But that was the same morning we got Harry's diagnosis and the noise and the mess from next door was just too much.
(17:14):
Oh,
wow.
Oh,
I'm sorry.
I said uselessly.
I was overwhelmed and frightened and those stupid people were just constant noise in the background.
She shook her head forcefully and the shit that that man came up with like we had some interest in his kids or something or we somehow magically conjured up their dog's name.
(17:38):
The fucking real estate agent sent out one of those.
Please welcome to the neighborhood mailers before those fuckers moved in.
We were given all their names,
including that stupid dip of a dog.
I had to walk that thing back into the yard like three times because it would just wander around and those stuck up kids never bothered closing their fence.
She leaned forward and another thing,
(18:01):
swingers.
What the fuck is this the seventies?
Give me a goddamn break.
Harry was a couple's counselor.
That's why there were people coming in and out of our house all the time again.
If they'd given even an iota of curiosity about people instead of just writing everyone off who doesn't exactly think and look like them,
then none of this would have ever happened.
(18:23):
Wow.
So he basically just made everything up.
Not exactly.
She admitted,
I'm sure he spied on us in our spiritual practice and came to all those absurd conclusions but little creatures in the woods,
please.
And the stuff that happened to his family,
(18:44):
she shrugged.
I mean,
I was shocked that that wet blanket could have such a wild imagination.
But,
you know,
I wouldn't be surprised if they had black mold in that dump they're probably hallucinating.
I considered what she'd said and had to admit that it made a hell of a lot more sense than Mitchell's story.
Wait,
what about that Ladder?
(19:05):
She laughed.
Oh,
Harry.
He had a wicked sense of humor.
He just kept replacing it.
He was just fucking with the guy.
I was about 75% convinced something negative had happened between the families and they obviously despised one another.
Ockham's razor suggested Mitchell's paranoia was more likely than Kate's magical abilities.
(19:29):
Don't forget he broke into our house.
She added.
Oh,
that's right.
He said he saw that creature with like goat legs.
She just gave me a look of disbelief.
I held my hands up,
look credible.
People in this town have told me stranger stories and I've seen weird stuff here too.
(19:51):
Right.
Right.
Well,
about that,
you know,
I went off the rails after Harry died.
I couldn't cope.
He was truly a stabilizing force in my life and I just spun out without him.
I was just gone for a while and I leaned on our spiritual practice to crawl back up out of that pit.
(20:13):
I'm really afraid she trailed off and it was true.
She looked terrified.
I forced myself to be quiet and not fill the silence with chatter.
When I crawled out of that dark time.
I think I might have dragged something up with me.
(20:33):
That's why I asked you about our neighborhood.
I wondered if maybe other people had noticed anything.
Wait,
are you saying you think the thing you brought back with you is affecting other people?
She shifted in her seat.
I may have stirred something up.
(20:53):
How exactly the otherwise motionless woman behind her,
smiled briefly,
then settled back into expressionless.
Do you think it's the woman you can see behind me?
Kate whispered.
I nodded.
What the fuck does she want?
(21:13):
I asked the spirit.
It offered no hints,
just stood still and tall.
Do you have any idea who she is?
I asked Kate or where she came from?
When you say the pit?
Do you mean like metaphorically or Kate pushed her lips?
I went too far out of desperation.
(21:36):
So you do know who I might,
I'm just hoping that I'm wrong.
Do you not want to give me any details?
I asked beginning to feel frustrated.
It's not about wanting to do or not do anything.
I'm afraid that I just don't know if I'm allowed to.
(21:58):
She took a deep breath.
It's a lot easier to just talk shit about the Westcott.
I smiled reassuringly though my concern was growing.
Can you tell me what's happened to make you feel concerned or frightened?
Sure.
Um It's mainly the feeling that I'm being watched like constantly.
(22:20):
Well,
you are I confirmed attempting to make light of the situation,
right?
And I'm like so,
so fucking anxious all the time.
Like I can't be alone.
I have to keep moving.
I walk and walk and walk those trails around our neighborhood.
I'm just so goddamn antsy.
I think,
I think I'm forgetting things.
I mean,
I don't think I'm remembering everything that I do.
(22:44):
That's funny.
I said there's a woman who lives near us who's dealing with some kind of time warp on her property.
She seems to be almost like jumping back and forth between timelines.
Oh shit,
Kate.
Breathe.
I feel terrible.
So you think you did something to cause it?
She nodded like what I prodded.
(23:10):
OK.
I wanted to reach Harry.
I just wanted to be able to talk to him and know that he was OK.
I took it as far as it can go and I mean,
I never got to him but I did make contact with something and she helped me.
She really did.
She put me back together.
I have nothing but gratitude.
I just worry.
(23:30):
OK,
you're losing time,
not remembering everything you do.
You feel watched,
you're anxious and antsy.
I know what it sounds like,
but it's not a demon.
I could only raise my eyebrows in response.
It's not,
she said firmly,
I'm not interested in that side of things.
I never would have reached out to you if I thought this was just my problem.
(23:54):
I don't mean problem my situation to handle,
but I just worry it's grown out of control.
Not that I ever intended to control anyone.
I'm just worried the spirit behind Kate.
Her expression as calm and composed as ever moved to stand beside her.
And I immediately felt a sense of menace rolling off her.
(24:17):
I'm getting the idea that you don't want to say too much or say the wrong thing by accident.
I offered.
Exactly.
Kate replied,
nodding.
I stumbled into a situation way,
way above my pay grade.
Stumble isn't the right word either.
She looked down at her lap and swore I went through a process to call upon a goddess and I unwittingly granted her domain over the land in our neighborhood,
(24:46):
no matter what I try or offerings I give,
I can't stop her from doing whatever she wants to do.
And I worry that it might not be in everyone's best interests.
But then again,
who am I to question the decisions or motivations of a goddess?
The words just spilled out of her until the spirit put its hand on her shoulder.
(25:08):
So that's why all these weird things are happening around the lake.
The time slips and creatures and everything.
She nodded miserably.
I think she's pulling for things that will make circumstances more favorable for her.
Huh?
I had this idea that all the weird in our neighborhood had to do with that old Ridge Hill Farm carnival situation from years ago that maybe the guy who created and caused that made some sort of problem on the land.
(25:40):
Wait,
what are you talking about?
I waved her question away.
Nothing.
I can drop off a little booklet about it in your mailbox.
It doesn't have anything to do with the situation though.
It was just a working theory.
This makes so much more sense.
I can't believe it's gone this far.
She said quietly.
(26:00):
I sat trying to think of how to word my next question.
It seems like you might want to move in a different direction.
I finally suggest it.
Oh,
well,
that might be something I'd consider,
you know,
in the future.
And it sounds like you're feeling safe.
(26:21):
I said knowing the opposite was true.
She hesitated.
I am on solid ground for the moment.
I do the very best I can to provide what is expected of me every day.
Great.
I replied with false enthusiasm.
You keep doing that and I will get you that information about our neighborhood.
(26:44):
Are there any times in particular that are better to discuss things?
She looked at me with wide eyes.
I usually have all my work done by dusk.
I get a little time then for reading and such.
I was about to tell her that worked for me and I'd be in touch shortly when she winced,
(27:04):
nearly jumping out of her seat.
The woman behind her had a death grip on her shoulder.
Stop.
I demanded causing Kate to startle again.
After a too long moment,
the woman removed her hand,
Kate rubbed her shoulder.
What the hell was that?
I shook my head.
(27:25):
Kate's hand dropped to her lap.
Can I ask you something?
Sure.
What does she look like?
Is she beautiful?
My eyes shifted to the woman standing beside her.
A trio of small braids on each side,
swept her long flowing raven hair back from her temples.
(27:46):
She's gorgeous.
I said honestly,
Kate beamed.
I knew it in the safety of my car.
I called Biddy.
We have a problem.
I said after she answered the phone,
was she that bad?
No,
but the demon attached to her has her convinced that she's some sort of ancient goddess and it has her completely under her control.
(28:14):
Is that what made all that weird stuff happen at that guy's house?
No,
that was,
uh,
it's a long story.
Are you still at Cabra?
I'm in the parking lot.
Ok.
I just dropped Alice off at physical therapy.
So I have 45 minutes.
Wait there,
I'll come over.
Why is she in P T I asked,
(28:34):
worried for her daughter and also feeling like a jerk that I hadn't known she'd been hurt.
It's just a shoulder injury from volleyball.
I sat going over everything Kate had said.
Not sure if I completely believed her version of events with Mitchell.
Perhaps they were both exaggerating things as I stared out my window lost and thought Kate passed by on the way to her car.
(28:57):
I slunk down in my seat and watched her pass by with that woman following closely behind her.
Kate stopped and began typing something into her cellphone and the demon turned abruptly to look straight at me.
Its face was no longer longer serene and beautiful.
Its black eyes narrowed.
It grimaced at me.
Gray lips,
a tight line without hesitation.
(29:20):
I started my car and pulled out of the parking lot at a stoplight.
I called bitty change of plans.
I said in a shaky voice.
Meet me at Cafe Nero.
(29:50):
If you haven't yet,
please follow me on Instagram at Ghosts in the burbs.
It's the best place to find updates about the show.
Plus the occasional spooky book movie and podcast recommendations.
If you are interested in supporting the show financially,
you may do so on Patreon.
Special thanks to those listeners who supported the show.
(30:11):
Check out Ghosts in the burbs for all the links.
Until next time.
Good night,
sleep tight.
And don't forget your night light.
I'm Liz.
So,
and this is Ghosts in The Burbs,
a podcast of ghost stories from Wellesley Massachusetts,
a warning adults who use adult language told me these frightening tales.
These ghost stories aren't for kids.
A million trillion quadrillion.
Thanks to everyone who ordered a ghost in the Burbs baseball t-shirt.
(00:27):
You all raised $783.70.
I round it up and together we will donate $800 to heading home.
Thank you for making this such a happy 44th birthday fundraiser.
Well,
life is definitely Laing at the moment.
So I'm getting this story to you later than I'd hoped.
(00:48):
So.
Thank you for your continued never ending patience.
And as for this next interview,
well,
sometimes we have moments in this long winding journey of offshoots and dead ends that we're on together where we have to take a moment to catch up a bit.
Kate Divis interview is one of those moments.
It's kind of a connect the dots moment,
(01:09):
but like so many things we've encountered,
there aren't really any answers here.
Just more dots.
But onward,
we'd stumble loose ends and all we're on to ghost story number 71.
He said,
she said,
(01:30):
hold on.
What do you mean already?
I'm surprised she's ready to talk.
Claire replied,
Shiftily ready to talk about what I pressed the stuff she's been up to.
Ok.
I got out of the car and stomped into Starbucks,
ordered a coffee and texted Betty to ask if she could come meet me.
(01:53):
She showed up 13 minutes later.
What does she mean already that he demanded?
That's exactly what I said.
But she got all vague.
Is Claire here?
Now,
I shook my head back bit.
He muttered.
So when are you going to meet her?
You cannot go to her house.
(02:13):
I know that.
And I haven't even texted her back.
I can't.
Right.
You have to.
She cursed her neighbor's entire family.
I argued.
Mitchell's wife saw raw chicken crawl across her countertop gross.
She laughed.
I totally forgot about that part.
I just want to pretend I never saw that text.
(02:36):
You can't fuck.
I sighed,
Betty scammed the coffee shop.
Are there any ghosts here?
Now?
I gave her a look.
Uh There's an old guy with that mom and her stroller.
She looked her way,
not even trying to conceal her interest starting to kind of wish I could do that.
(02:57):
She sighed.
Turning back.
No,
you don't.
I muttered as the old man's ghost started our way.
I agreed to meet Kate Dovish at Cabra the Friday before Easter weekend.
Good Friday to some Claire informed me that she would not be in attendance.
(03:19):
That woman runs with heavy hitters.
It's not my scene.
Should I be worried?
You'll be worried no matter what?
I sighed.
True.
As usual,
Claire was right filled with the usual anxiety.
I loaded up on every piece of protective jewelry.
I owned a bunch of crystal bracelets.
(03:40):
My Saint Benedict metal necklace,
a black tle ring and a pretty evil eye bracelet that I had recently won at a raffle fundraiser for the girls elementary school.
I didn't believe any of it would do a goddamn thing,
but I figured it couldn't hurt by all accounts,
Kate Delves was an extremely powerful witch.
I made up my mind to be polite,
(04:01):
listen to what she had to say and then get the hell out of there before she could hex me over the years.
The woman has grown into a spooky terror in my mind,
someone to be avoided at all costs.
I expected her to be intimidating,
vindictive,
powerful,
whatever Chris and I had seen in that tunnel near Sabrina Lake.
(04:22):
It used her image to convey that terror.
She obviously messed around with diabolical forces.
I expected her to be a total bitch.
And as per usual,
my assumptions were wildly off base.
I got to the bakery early.
I usually have to be intentional about not showing up to places too early unless my kids are somehow involved in the plan.
(04:46):
Then all bets are off.
But in this case,
I was my usual 15 minutes ahead of time hoping to get my coffee,
scope out a good table and then sit and fret until Kate arrived.
To my surprise.
She'd beat me there.
Hi.
She called out all friendly smiles from a table up near the front windows.
(05:06):
Grab your coffee.
I got scones.
Ok,
thank you.
I replied,
thrown off,
the woman seemed genuinely happy to see me addressing me like an old friend.
I moved quickly through the line and doctored up my iced coffee.
Cabra always has simple syrup,
which is such a treat.
That grainy sugar at the bottom of the cup is a true Ick Kate was talking on her cell as I approached the table,
(05:32):
she smiled,
widely mouthed,
sorry and held up a finger.
Mom.
I have to go,
I'll call you back around lunchtime.
Ok.
Love you too.
I sat down across from her as she slid her phone into a canvas tote at her feet.
Sorry about that.
We just moved my mom into assisted living and she's having some trouble getting acclimated.
(05:56):
She insists the women are snubbing her at the dining room.
I'm trying to get her to put herself out there,
you know,
but I get it.
It's hard to meet people anyway.
Here she shoved a white bag across the table.
I didn't know what you'd be in the mood for.
So I got both blueberry and current.
Wow,
thanks.
I replied acknowledging to myself that I should be suspicious of anything she offered me while also knowing I probably tuck into one of the pastries.
(06:23):
Anyway,
I took out a current scum and placed it on the napkin in front of me.
No decisions had to be made right at the moment about the food and I didn't want to be rude.
So Kate said a little too loudly.
Wow.
Ok.
She shook her hands at her side as though shaking water from them.
(06:43):
I'm sorry.
She apologized.
I've been so nervous about meeting you.
Really?
Why I said shocked.
She straightened her back and sat tall in her seat,
placing her hands in her lap.
I know what you think of me.
At least I know what Mitchell said about me and I don't know if I can change your mind.
(07:05):
Oh,
I said dumbly feeling embarrassed and guilty.
Like I'd been caught gossiping red-handed,
which I suppose I had brow furrow.
She went on raw chicken.
How would I even begin to make that happen?
I laughed despite the tension when you put it that way.
(07:26):
I mean,
yeah,
it sounds ridiculous but I trailed off.
But what?
Well,
he did say your husband brought over brownies.
He could have absolutely not.
No,
never.
Harry never would have done something so dangerous and illegal.
She blew out of breath in what appeared to be an attempt to calm herself down.
(07:49):
I am sorry.
It's just everything that lucky asshole said about my husband makes me absolutely furious.
Not one word of it was true.
And he can't defend himself.
Why not?
Because he's dead.
Oh God,
I am so sorry.
I didn't know she shook her head.
(08:10):
It's all right.
I wouldn't expect you to know she smoothed her hair back.
Look,
this wasn't the reason I wanted to meet you.
I don't want to give that fuck face Mitchell any more attention than he's already had.
But I won't sit by and let Harry's memory be trashed.
Of course,
I offered again.
(08:31):
I'm really sorry.
We sat in silence for a time,
Kate,
obviously fighting back tears.
I'd gone over that old interview with Mitchell Westcott that morning to refresh my memory.
And with the time and experience I'd had since I had spoken with him,
a lot of what he said,
it sounded a little outrageous.
(08:51):
On top of that,
Kate was nothing like he described.
But then again,
how hard was it to be pleasant and polite?
She could be acting?
I bit into the scone then asked why did you want to meet me?
I need your advice.
Uh uh She laughed and then wiped her nose with a napkin.
(09:12):
No,
really?
I,
I think I've gotten myself in over my head.
There was a woman standing behind her,
quietly watching us,
her expression calm,
but also a little blank as though she were made of stone.
I made eye contact with her hoping she might offer some piece of information,
but she simply met my gaze.
(09:34):
Her expression remained the same.
I realized I wouldn't be given any hints by what appeared to be Kate's guide.
You live near Sabrina Lake,
right.
Asked Kate.
I've seen you on the walking trails.
I do for now.
Anyway,
we're moving this summer.
Oh,
good.
That's good.
It's a beautiful part of town.
(09:55):
But you have little kids.
Right.
I felt my guard go up at the mention of my Children.
I do.
I don't mean to scare you.
Our neighborhood is totally fine.
Really?
They're safe.
I think she trailed off.
See,
from what I pressed.
Well,
that's the thing.
(10:15):
I'm not exactly sure.
I'm sorry.
I stopped listening to your podcast after that fucking love letter to the 19 fifties.
Made up all those lies about my husband and she pressed her lips.
Sorry,
I'm not here to talk about him.
Ok?
I just wondered if you've interviewed anyone who's noticed anything strange in our neighborhood?
(10:39):
I nodded.
Have you talked to your next door neighbor?
She shook her head.
I haven't been home much.
I've been helping my sister and getting my mom settled and can I be honest?
I shrugged.
Sure.
Living next to the Scots turned me off to the whole neighbor thing.
I moved to the lake for privacy.
(11:00):
Got it.
Well,
there is a tunnel beneath your neighbor's house that leads down to the lake.
Actually,
I hesitated for a moment before plowing ahead.
Well,
my husband and I went down there and we saw you.
What?
Yeah,
it was you.
But it wasn't you,
it couldn't have been,
(11:21):
I guess you were out of town.
She opened her mouth as if to say something and then closed it,
her lips,
a tight line.
Finally she said,
was that what that phone call from the Wellesley police was all about?
Yeah.
Sorry.
I confirmed.
she shook her head.
Not your fault.
(11:42):
Do you know what would mimic you?
Kate suddenly looked afraid I have an idea,
but I don't know if I can say I glanced at the beautiful woman behind her but her stony gaze offered nothing.
Kate noticed me looking over her shoulder.
What is it?
(12:04):
Uh It's gonna sound a little crazy.
Go ahead.
Well,
I can see like spirits and other stuff since when a couple of years without missing a beat.
She asked what's behind me?
A really beautiful stoic woman with long black shiny hair wearing a long green dress.
(12:28):
She kind of gives off a dark academia vibe.
Has she said anything to you?
Nothing.
Kate crossed her arms and seemed to shrink in on herself.
Fuck,
I took a bite of scone.
Then a sip of coffee.
Look,
I have to know what exactly went on with Mitchell and his family.
(12:53):
She could tell me about whatever drama she was struggling with or not for all I cared,
but I simply had to hear her side of that neighbor feud.
She actually smiled.
I hate to even think about that angry nerd,
but I guess it would feel good to finally set the record straight.
I just smiled at her Encouragingly.
(13:14):
OK,
fine.
That dip shit.
Bought an absolute lemon of a house.
Seriously,
the entire neighborhood felt bad for him and when he realized what a dip shit he'd been,
he lost his fucking mind.
Come on,
I laughed.
She looked around as if to check to see if anyone was listening to us then scooted her seat forward.
(13:36):
So the builder who did that house was like reliable for a time,
he built a couple of cute houses in town.
Actually,
Harry knew a guy who bought one and it was perfectly fine.
But as it turned out over time,
that builder started,
you know,
robbing Peter to pay Paul and he wasn't paying his subs and he started cutting on costs and you can guess how it all turned out.
(14:00):
Yeah,
Mitchell mentioned the crack foundation and beetle infestation.
Kate cut in,
rolling her eyes,
fucking idiot.
It doesn't take a black magic spell for bugs to get in your house or a cracked foundation.
Whatever,
we went over to introduce ourselves the day they moved in.
And again,
(14:21):
we were feeling kind of bad for them knowing the house was shoddy,
but we hope for their sake that it wasn't as bad as we suspected another neighbor down the street from us was,
well,
still is a contractor and he'd gone to the open house and he left with no doubt that certain corners were cut there.
Anyway.
We introduced ourselves and invited them to dinner.
(14:42):
Despite the fact that they are a little cold.
I thought it had to do with the age gap between Harry and me.
I could just feel the judgment rolling off Mitchell.
But Harry said I was being paranoid.
They're just a couple of New England Yuppies.
He insisted just gotta wear down the walls.
And I came to dinner,
another couple down the street was supposed to join us,
(15:03):
but they bailed at the last minute.
Which truly sucked.
She shrugged.
I don't know,
it was fine.
Some of our decor threw them for a loop.
I suspected they would have been more comfortable if we'd nailed huge crosses on every wall in our house.
We fielded a few thinly veiled jabs and they were definitely trying to feel out where we stood on.
(15:23):
All those little pet issues.
Conservatives love to obsess about.
I think the wife,
uh,
what's her face?
Maggie?
I supplied right.
Who knows how we got on the topic?
But at one point she referred to free school lunches as a handout.
Something like if these people can't afford to feed their kids lunch,
(15:43):
then how are they going to live in this town?
I tied gross.
Yeah.
Suffice to say we weren't a love match,
whatever.
We were relieved when the evening was over and felt like we'd done our neighborly duty.
Things were relatively normal for a time until the guy turned out to be a lucky fucking creep.
(16:04):
He was like,
always in that office window of his.
I caught him watching me work out more than once and all that bullshit about me doing some sort of satanic warrior dance thing yet.
No,
I was doing Tracy Anderson tapes.
I giggled,
fucking repressed weirdo.
She hissed,
(16:25):
he said he saw you were really upset.
Right?
Sure.
That was the whole thing.
If they had been nice kind,
neighborly,
people,
they would have wondered what was actually going on with us and not just layered their entire world view and spooky religious bullshit on top of us.
Then maybe he could have been a decent human being and asked if we were all right.
(16:47):
I'm sure he did see me have a breakdown in that workout room and I absolutely lost my ever loving mind over that ugly,
cheap ass synthetic fence.
That thing was a goddamn travesty and sure my reaction was wildly inappropriate.
There's no question about that.
It gives me bone deep embarrassment to even think about it.
But that was the same morning we got Harry's diagnosis and the noise and the mess from next door was just too much.
(17:14):
Oh,
wow.
Oh,
I'm sorry.
I said uselessly.
I was overwhelmed and frightened and those stupid people were just constant noise in the background.
She shook her head forcefully and the shit that that man came up with like we had some interest in his kids or something or we somehow magically conjured up their dog's name.
(17:38):
The fucking real estate agent sent out one of those.
Please welcome to the neighborhood mailers before those fuckers moved in.
We were given all their names,
including that stupid dip of a dog.
I had to walk that thing back into the yard like three times because it would just wander around and those stuck up kids never bothered closing their fence.
She leaned forward and another thing,
(18:01):
swingers.
What the fuck is this the seventies?
Give me a goddamn break.
Harry was a couple's counselor.
That's why there were people coming in and out of our house all the time again.
If they'd given even an iota of curiosity about people instead of just writing everyone off who doesn't exactly think and look like them,
then none of this would have ever happened.
(18:23):
Wow.
So he basically just made everything up.
Not exactly.
She admitted,
I'm sure he spied on us in our spiritual practice and came to all those absurd conclusions but little creatures in the woods,
please.
And the stuff that happened to his family,
(18:44):
she shrugged.
I mean,
I was shocked that that wet blanket could have such a wild imagination.
But,
you know,
I wouldn't be surprised if they had black mold in that dump they're probably hallucinating.
I considered what she'd said and had to admit that it made a hell of a lot more sense than Mitchell's story.
Wait,
what about that Ladder?
(19:05):
She laughed.
Oh,
Harry.
He had a wicked sense of humor.
He just kept replacing it.
He was just fucking with the guy.
I was about 75% convinced something negative had happened between the families and they obviously despised one another.
Ockham's razor suggested Mitchell's paranoia was more likely than Kate's magical abilities.
(19:29):
Don't forget he broke into our house.
She added.
Oh,
that's right.
He said he saw that creature with like goat legs.
She just gave me a look of disbelief.
I held my hands up,
look credible.
People in this town have told me stranger stories and I've seen weird stuff here too.
(19:51):
Right.
Right.
Well,
about that,
you know,
I went off the rails after Harry died.
I couldn't cope.
He was truly a stabilizing force in my life and I just spun out without him.
I was just gone for a while and I leaned on our spiritual practice to crawl back up out of that pit.
(20:13):
I'm really afraid she trailed off and it was true.
She looked terrified.
I forced myself to be quiet and not fill the silence with chatter.
When I crawled out of that dark time.
I think I might have dragged something up with me.
(20:33):
That's why I asked you about our neighborhood.
I wondered if maybe other people had noticed anything.
Wait,
are you saying you think the thing you brought back with you is affecting other people?
She shifted in her seat.
I may have stirred something up.
(20:53):
How exactly the otherwise motionless woman behind her,
smiled briefly,
then settled back into expressionless.
Do you think it's the woman you can see behind me?
Kate whispered.
I nodded.
What the fuck does she want?
(21:13):
I asked the spirit.
It offered no hints,
just stood still and tall.
Do you have any idea who she is?
I asked Kate or where she came from?
When you say the pit?
Do you mean like metaphorically or Kate pushed her lips?
I went too far out of desperation.
(21:36):
So you do know who I might,
I'm just hoping that I'm wrong.
Do you not want to give me any details?
I asked beginning to feel frustrated.
It's not about wanting to do or not do anything.
I'm afraid that I just don't know if I'm allowed to.
(21:58):
She took a deep breath.
It's a lot easier to just talk shit about the Westcott.
I smiled reassuringly though my concern was growing.
Can you tell me what's happened to make you feel concerned or frightened?
Sure.
Um It's mainly the feeling that I'm being watched like constantly.
(22:20):
Well,
you are I confirmed attempting to make light of the situation,
right?
And I'm like so,
so fucking anxious all the time.
Like I can't be alone.
I have to keep moving.
I walk and walk and walk those trails around our neighborhood.
I'm just so goddamn antsy.
I think,
I think I'm forgetting things.
I mean,
I don't think I'm remembering everything that I do.
(22:44):
That's funny.
I said there's a woman who lives near us who's dealing with some kind of time warp on her property.
She seems to be almost like jumping back and forth between timelines.
Oh shit,
Kate.
Breathe.
I feel terrible.
So you think you did something to cause it?
She nodded like what I prodded.
(23:10):
OK.
I wanted to reach Harry.
I just wanted to be able to talk to him and know that he was OK.
I took it as far as it can go and I mean,
I never got to him but I did make contact with something and she helped me.
She really did.
She put me back together.
I have nothing but gratitude.
I just worry.
(23:30):
OK,
you're losing time,
not remembering everything you do.
You feel watched,
you're anxious and antsy.
I know what it sounds like,
but it's not a demon.
I could only raise my eyebrows in response.
It's not,
she said firmly,
I'm not interested in that side of things.
I never would have reached out to you if I thought this was just my problem.
(23:54):
I don't mean problem my situation to handle,
but I just worry it's grown out of control.
Not that I ever intended to control anyone.
I'm just worried the spirit behind Kate.
Her expression as calm and composed as ever moved to stand beside her.
And I immediately felt a sense of menace rolling off her.
(24:17):
I'm getting the idea that you don't want to say too much or say the wrong thing by accident.
I offered.
Exactly.
Kate replied,
nodding.
I stumbled into a situation way,
way above my pay grade.
Stumble isn't the right word either.
She looked down at her lap and swore I went through a process to call upon a goddess and I unwittingly granted her domain over the land in our neighborhood,
(24:46):
no matter what I try or offerings I give,
I can't stop her from doing whatever she wants to do.
And I worry that it might not be in everyone's best interests.
But then again,
who am I to question the decisions or motivations of a goddess?
The words just spilled out of her until the spirit put its hand on her shoulder.
(25:08):
So that's why all these weird things are happening around the lake.
The time slips and creatures and everything.
She nodded miserably.
I think she's pulling for things that will make circumstances more favorable for her.
Huh?
I had this idea that all the weird in our neighborhood had to do with that old Ridge Hill Farm carnival situation from years ago that maybe the guy who created and caused that made some sort of problem on the land.
(25:40):
Wait,
what are you talking about?
I waved her question away.
Nothing.
I can drop off a little booklet about it in your mailbox.
It doesn't have anything to do with the situation though.
It was just a working theory.
This makes so much more sense.
I can't believe it's gone this far.
She said quietly.
(26:00):
I sat trying to think of how to word my next question.
It seems like you might want to move in a different direction.
I finally suggest it.
Oh,
well,
that might be something I'd consider,
you know,
in the future.
And it sounds like you're feeling safe.
(26:21):
I said knowing the opposite was true.
She hesitated.
I am on solid ground for the moment.
I do the very best I can to provide what is expected of me every day.
Great.
I replied with false enthusiasm.
You keep doing that and I will get you that information about our neighborhood.
(26:44):
Are there any times in particular that are better to discuss things?
She looked at me with wide eyes.
I usually have all my work done by dusk.
I get a little time then for reading and such.
I was about to tell her that worked for me and I'd be in touch shortly when she winced,
(27:04):
nearly jumping out of her seat.
The woman behind her had a death grip on her shoulder.
Stop.
I demanded causing Kate to startle again.
After a too long moment,
the woman removed her hand,
Kate rubbed her shoulder.
What the hell was that?
I shook my head.
(27:25):
Kate's hand dropped to her lap.
Can I ask you something?
Sure.
What does she look like?
Is she beautiful?
My eyes shifted to the woman standing beside her.
A trio of small braids on each side,
swept her long flowing raven hair back from her temples.
(27:46):
She's gorgeous.
I said honestly,
Kate beamed.
I knew it in the safety of my car.
I called Biddy.
We have a problem.
I said after she answered the phone,
was she that bad?
No,
but the demon attached to her has her convinced that she's some sort of ancient goddess and it has her completely under her control.
(28:14):
Is that what made all that weird stuff happen at that guy's house?
No,
that was,
uh,
it's a long story.
Are you still at Cabra?
I'm in the parking lot.
Ok.
I just dropped Alice off at physical therapy.
So I have 45 minutes.
Wait there,
I'll come over.
Why is she in P T I asked,
(28:34):
worried for her daughter and also feeling like a jerk that I hadn't known she'd been hurt.
It's just a shoulder injury from volleyball.
I sat going over everything Kate had said.
Not sure if I completely believed her version of events with Mitchell.
Perhaps they were both exaggerating things as I stared out my window lost and thought Kate passed by on the way to her car.
(28:57):
I slunk down in my seat and watched her pass by with that woman following closely behind her.
Kate stopped and began typing something into her cellphone and the demon turned abruptly to look straight at me.
Its face was no longer longer serene and beautiful.
Its black eyes narrowed.
It grimaced at me.
Gray lips,
a tight line without hesitation.
(29:20):
I started my car and pulled out of the parking lot at a stoplight.
I called bitty change of plans.
I said in a shaky voice.
Meet me at Cafe Nero.
(29:50):
If you haven't yet,
please follow me on Instagram at Ghosts in the burbs.
It's the best place to find updates about the show.
Plus the occasional spooky book movie and podcast recommendations.
If you are interested in supporting the show financially,
you may do so on Patreon.
Special thanks to those listeners who supported the show.
(30:11):
Check out Ghosts in the burbs for all the links.
Until next time.
Good night,
sleep tight.
And don't forget your night light.
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