Episode 64: Matt and Taylor are joined by Orion Rodgers. Orion is the President and a founding member of Property Rights BC from Victoria, BC, which was founded in the wake of the BC STR legislation in October 2023, and have filed legal action against the BC provincial government against said legislation. Property Rights BC is a non-profit association committed to educating British Columbians about their property rights and fostering a community that is informed, empowered, and proactive in protecting those rights.
Orion is here to discuss: → What led to formation of Property Rights BC, advocating for property rights and balance in government, and the upcoming provincial election and the politics around housing. → Taking the BC government to court over the short-term rental (STR) legislation, the "vested rights" legal argument, and where AirBNB and VRBO are in all of this. → The lobbying efforts of the hotel industry to squash STR, how more hotels won't help the housing problem, and debunking the "McGill University" STR study.
BC Short-Term Rental Association Website: www.bcstra.ca
Property Rights BC Website: www.propertyrightbc.org
Property Rights BC Instagram: @propertyrightsbc
Property Rights BC LinkedIn: @PropertyRightsBC
Coast & Host Vacation Rentals Website: www.coastandhost.com
Coast & Host Vacation Rentals Instagram: @coastandhost
Coast & Host Vacation Rentals LinkedIn: @CoastAndHost
Orion Rodgers' Instagram: @obamalifts
Orion Rodgers' LinkedIn: @OrionRodgers
The Kelowna Real Estate Podcast is brought to you by Century 21 Assurance Realty, the gold standard in real estate. To learn more, visit: www.c21kelowna.ca
Matt Glen's Website: www.mattglen.ca
Matt Glen's Email: Matt.glen@century21.ca
Matt Glen's Instagram: @mattglenrealestate
Taylor Atkinson's Website: www.VentureMortgages.com
Taylor Atkinson's Email: Taylor@VentureMortgages.com
Taylor Atkinson's Instagram: @VentureMortgages
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the Kelowna RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
I'm your real estate agent host,Matt Glenn.
How'd your triathlon, how'd thecherry blossom go for It was a lot
of fun, man.
Those events are awesome.
I guarantee I'm probably the onlyperson that jumped in the pool
without his goggles on.
purpose, you No, not on purpose.
They were still on my head.
I was one of the last guys to
enter the pool.
(00:22):
You know, you choose your time so
So you don't like delay everyonein the pool.
Cause you're swimming like a snakeformation.
I was chatting to a guy abouttrying to figure out how the clock
worked.
And then I jumped in and my first
couple, like, you know, littlehead bobs, I'm like, I can't see a
freaking thing in So you didn'tnotice when he hit the water, it
took you a while to figure it out.
It me about, I don't know, know
five to ten seconds and then i putmy goggles on and then after that
(00:44):
i was off man i was killing itgood for you did you do pretty
well i yeah that's relative i didfinish no i uh yeah it was a lot
fun emily crushed it as well so itwas a good day the weather was
nice and the fans were out Sonice.
Yeah, that was awesome to you dothat.
OK, and this is your last week tovote for Kelowna now.
So like we said, we are in thevoting round.
(01:06):
Thank you very much for nominatingus.
If you go down to media, bestlocal podcast, lick real estate
podcast to help us out.
we can vote till the 18th.
By the time this gets released, Ithink there'll be like four or
five days left to vote.
Yeah, so far I've seen a lot of
people posting that they did votefor us and sending me messages.
So love to see that.
We would love, love to win this
category.
I think we will.
I think we got a shot.
(01:27):
Yeah.
Do we get maybe like a free lunchout of it or something?
I don't know.
Whatever we get, even if it's just
a pat on the back from each other.
happy with it.
Yeah.
If we don't win, I'm not giving
you that.
Fair enough.
Okay.
Leading into today's show, awesome
show, pretty relevant with talkingabout short-term rental
legislation.
So we had on Orion Rogers from
Property Rights BC.
(01:48):
They are the organization that
fundraised, I want to say around$150,000 for a legal action
lawsuit against the provincialgovernment.
They are going to court in thenext couple of months.
So it's actually happeningprobably quicker than I
anticipated, but he kind of ran usthrough, you know, his origin
(02:08):
story, why he is, you know,fighting this battle and yeah,
he's a pretty good voice to have.
And their seem like super
reasonable, what they're askingfor.
They agree with a lot of thingsthat have been happening, like the
whole movement does.
I don't know what the whole
movement, but this lawsuit doesand Ryan specifically, but what do
(02:28):
they want?They want an exemption of the
residents and non-conformingsuites.
And they seem to be going about itthe right way.
Like they're actually going andmeeting face-to-face with
politicians, you know, Ravi andEby.
They're shaking hands and justtrying to unify the voice.
So yeah, we would love to havethem back on in the future.
But yeah, this is kind of just theinitial, hey, this is our
(02:49):
organization.
This is what we're doing.
If you want to be part of it, youknow, go to their website.
You can sign up for theirnewsletter you can become a member
you can make a donation so yeahdefinitely a good organization to
have yeah it's property rightsassociation so like right now
they're fighting the short-termrentals at the provincial level
and also at the municipal level hewas saying but then that's just
the issue of the day today so likethey're going to be fighting for
(03:11):
your rights in the as well yeahYeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's a valuable guy to
connect with.
And then this show and every other
show, we are sponsored by Century21.
So thank you for that, guys.
21 Assurance Realty, the best
brokerage in the Okanagan.
From my own experience, also my
opinion, obviously.
And just from what I've seen, it's
a great place to be.
Love for you to us.
Give them a shout out on Kelownanow as well.
(03:31):
Yes, definitely do that.
But vote for us first.
Vote for us at the same time.
Enjoy the show, you guys.
Okay, thanks for joining us.
Ryan Rogers, President of Property
Rights Association, BC.
How are you doing today?
time coming having you on here.
Yeah, thanks.
I mean, caught some of yourepisodes in the beginning, right?
Amanda and Dina and stuff likethat.
And so, you know, it's great tochat about this.
(03:55):
And here we are past this May 1stthreshold Yeah.
So has anything changed like inthe last few days over that?
very like, well, of course, thingshave changed, right?
You know, short-term rentals arenow restricted across the
province.
I mean, that is what has changed.
If you go and search for ashort-term rental on any of the
platforms, you will see next tonone, right?
Yeah.
Well, maybe we can just start
(04:15):
with, we like to connect ourguests to our listener with what's
your perfect Friday look like?What do you kind of do?
What's your role?And leading into the weekend, what
do you do for fun?Yeah.
I mean, father of two, I got aseven and nine-year-old.
So Fridays are kind of that end ofthe week.
Routine down picking up the kidsweather's nice we just get out and
have some fun right after schoolyou know go play some sports or
(04:36):
even go to like the arcade andplay some video games and then
friday's movie night for ourfamily oh wow we don't blockbuster
anymore right we can't go get amovie so we try and like pick a
movie as a family and sit down andenjoy it put our phones away i
think that's you know i'm reallypassionate about that right now is
just keep the screens out of it inthe evenings and that's it put
down your phone and focus the tvoh i love that though man i love
(04:57):
too yeah i mean focus on yourfamily right so you know like yeah
make popcorn and include the kidsyou know there's seven and nine
now right and they're i thinkthat's awesome fantastic so that's
a passion for me right kind oflike have these device-free
moments and then that spills intothe weekend that sets the weekend
out right and the weekend issports in the mornings and getting
out and having fun and you knowwe're west coasters right like we
need to be yeah rain or shineoutdoors doing something so i
(05:18):
think it's super important i thatthat brings me back to my
childhood the tgif man going toget some and yes born in 84 you
know like i remember a time beforethe screen you know i grew up on
the gulf islands here so riding abike across gulf islands go see
your friends yeah calling off totalk to their parents yeah
mysterious my friend home yeahyeah we had to do that all the
time that would never happennowadays yeah i wasn't even
allowed inside until it was dark.
(05:39):
Like if it was sunny I wasn't
allowed to play inside.
I have locked my kids outside.
So I'm ready for them to come in.
Let's jump right into it, Ryan.
So is there anything about thisshort-term legislation that you'd
like?You know what I think, and I've
said this from the beginning, 80to 90% of this legislation is
great.
You know, an industry needs
regulation.
You've got the real estate
industry has the BC real estateassociation, You know, there's
(05:59):
self-governing bodies there.
Pretty much every industry has
some sort of self-governing body.
Unfortunately, we didn't have that
in short-term rentals.
You know, it was just left up to
municipalities to figure out a waythrough this.
And then what we've seen is, youknow, hotel industry kind of
deciding to regulate it.
Take the city of Victoria and the
city of Kelowna, for example, verystrict licensing regimes, right?
Bylaw enforcement, ticketing, theprovince essentially just mimicked
(06:20):
what they had, but they went astep further and they got more
aggressive with the legalnon-conforming and not honoring
zonings like Playa del Sol andthese commercially zoned
properties.
legal non-conforming in Victoria,
you know, amended the localgovernment act to take that out.
And so I think if they had avoidedthose two pieces, we probably
wouldn't have seen as muchpushback for sure.
They would have just beenaccepted.
And the people that had a businesslicense that were operating
(06:43):
lawfully legally, they would havebeen happy.
They would have said, oh, great.
You're going after the bad people.
You're going after the bad apples.
You've recognized that my ticket
here is a ticket to operate,right?
And so what's your rolespecifically?
Like, I guess you were a propertymanager, owner prior to this.
(07:03):
And then obviously once this allhappened, were you kind of taking
the lead on starting thisassociation or what's your
position exactly?Yeah.
Yeah.
And you nailed it.
I started with my own property.
You know, I still only own one and
a friend, you know, like yourself,I was actually a mortgage broker
decided to, you know, say, Hey,I've got a secondary property.
How's your short term rental stuffgoing, took it on, and started to
amass that created a companycoasting those vacation rentals
(07:24):
with my wife.
And when this came in, you know,
we already got through thepandemic, which was unprecedented,
hard times for tourism, you know,like that wasn't very long ago of,
you know, seeing cancellationsafter cancellations and just full
disruption to the industry.
And so we managed to get through
that and grew our business.
We've always grown at Lawfully.
We've always hosted guests ortaken on clients with, you know,
the zoning or requirements tooperate.
And so when this happens, we knewthere was going to be rumblings of
(07:48):
it happening.
We actually, as managers here in
Victoria had already kind of had ameeting set up to get together and
chat about this stuff that wascoming.
And then it came fast, heavy, andstrong.
And, you know, there was what, 10managers in Victoria got together
and about four to six of them kindof subgrouped after that.
And we're like, what do we need tochallenge this?
Why is the industry just kind ofbeing walked over?
(08:10):
Why does nobody care?We recognize it's because there
was no unified message and unifiedvoice, you know, circle back to
that association or self governingbody of an industry.
This one didn't have it.
So we said, let's create an
association.
We started with property rights
because we recognize that this iswhat the trample was on a little
bit.
I do think at some point it will
evolve into something else, right?I'd like to see a BC short-term
(08:32):
rental association, which, youknow, we've put the wheels in
motion for that because I thinkthat will be a more recognized
brand and eight directors totalcreated this entity.
We all just recognized everyonehas a different strength in this.
I don't like to be on camera, butI like to connect with people.
That's my superpower, right?And I've got a team of love data,
you know, they just love crunchingnumbers and combing through data.
And out of that, we called eachother the kind of needle movers.
(08:55):
And we created this association,registered it, you know, member
funded, everything above board, soit would be actually recognized
and then create that unifiedmessage.
So we can go to politicians, andthey say, oh, it's just one group
speaking to us, you know,representing a membership, right?
I think so far it's beensuccessful, you know, in being And
you guys have started the legalaction on this pretty early as
well.
Was that you that kind of were the
front runner for that Yeah, whatwe did was, you know, we just
(09:19):
heard from affected people, justlike any union, any association,
any group, when you have enoughmembers that are affected by this,
they're talking about, what can wedo?
I want to support something.
I don't believe this is right.
You start to take that together,you unpack it and look at it and
say, okay, there are grounds here.
You consult with the right people.
We took a couple of differentlegal counsels and opinions.
Cox Taylor was, you know, JohnAlexander, he's a well-renowned,
(09:40):
you know, Victoria and BC land uselawyer, said, I see an argument
here.
I see that the government has not
recognized areas in theirlegislation that are directly
affecting and cancelling vestedrights in everyday people.
And so that's the challenge.
We're not challenging the
legislation as a whole.
We're not challenging, you know,
is this good for housing, which weall believe, you know, housing is
important.
What we're challenging is the fact
that people that were lawfully,operating legally, having their
(10:03):
vested rights cancelled, if theywere originally zoned for it?
Or is it people that had abusiness license operating, just
be allowed to continue to operate?Or like you said, compensation,
would we look for compensation forthose people?
I it's multi-tiered.
The actual petition, which I'll
send you a copy if you haven't hada chance to look at it already,
are attacking parts 14 and 36.
Section 36 is the legal
(10:23):
non-conforming removal, soamending the local government acts
to not offer legal non-conformingprotections.
And part 14 is the principalresidence requirement, right?
And so when we look at those twopieces, those would actually
alleviate across the province andallow people to then continue
doing short-term rentals in theway that they were inside of their
municipal bylaws, right?So the municipal bylaws could
then, again, as Mr. Kalon and EBhave touted, the municipal bylaws
(10:45):
can be more restrictive than theprovincial legislation.
they are in Kelowna.
they are in Kelowna, right?
You were just talking about thatbefore the show.
And same in Victoria, right?So there is an ability for the
legislation to be the floor.
I know they call it the floor, but
(11:09):
I like to think of it as, youknow, the ceiling essentially
can't go higher and to bring thatdown lower and lower.
Now, with smart consultationamongst the cities, I think there
could be nuances and carve outswhere the provincial legislation
and the data sharing and all ofthat, right, for helping with
enforcement, working together withmunicipal bylaws could offer a
very good landscape, a healthylandscape for short-term rentals
(11:33):
to operate without the unintendedconsequences.
So right now, it's to removesections 14 and 36 in short, but
we're into litigation.
There could be a moment of
negotiation at some point.
Those parts are unknown until we
arrive at those moments, which wehaven't yet.
Hopefully, we will soon.
I know legal action can take
forever, but is there kind of atimeframe that we're anticipating
(11:53):
to hear news on this?Yeah.
We're looking for this summer,kind of mid-June is when we should
have some clear understandings.
Again, can always get moved around
or pushed.
And so we're not hanging our hats
on those dates, but we're workingtowards... you know, a lot of
people thought it was going to beMay 1st.
We're going to have anunderstanding.
We're going to stop it, but itjust doesn't work out that way.
Right.
So, and the legal strategy
(12:16):
continues to change as it needs toWell, that's pretty quick,
actually.
Yeah.
That's just for initials.
I mean, then it can get kicked
down the road again.
And, you know, just like any other
kind of legal challenge and otherlitigation.
So I can speak a little bit to itand talk about the body of it, but
obviously the timelines and stuff,there's just so much unknowns
(12:37):
there.
Yeah.
And, you know, as we crossdifferent little mini thresholds,
like we just crossed the May 1stone, and we had another one that
was there just kind of based onsome information.
We just keep updating our membersas best we can.
Yeah.
And what about, like, challenging
this could take a long time, but,like, we do have an election
coming up in the fall.
Like, are you pushing people
(12:58):
towards voting, obviously, butvoting a specific way or specific
candidates or party or like, haveyou thought about that at all?
Yeah, I mean, this is a discussionthat we've been having a lot.
We are entering election seasonvery quickly.
Yeah, yeah.
You can see it, you know, in
Facebook ads and stuff like that.
You're starting to see notices of,
you know, what you can talk about,what you can't talk about.
And our member base will vote howthey want to vote.
You know, everyone's got anopinion.
(13:19):
We all know what opinions are likeand everyone has one, right?
And so, you know, my stance on itis let's look at what the current
government has done.
Has it been successful?
Has there been shortfalls?Which government could do a better
job?Which government is sympathetic to
this?We've seen Karim Kapatrick get up
there and enhance our legislativejust going after Ravi Kolan.
But she's stepping down in a year.
She's not going to run again,
right?So you've got someone from the BC
United that is just driving ithome.
(13:39):
I think that's doing a great jobof just bringing more public
perception and helping change anarrative around what we've kind
of stigmatized, you know,demonized here, short-term
rentals, this bad term.
And so when I look at the upcoming
election, I see an opportunity forchange.
We have a majority governmentcurrently.
I would like to see it split andbroken down.
And if two other contenders gotin, you know, maybe they could be
conversations that they vote in ablock over certain topics, right?
(14:01):
So now we have a blendedgovernment over three people,
which, you know, let's be honest,blended governments, things move
slower, but you've got more voicesinvolved in policy change, right?
And again, hence why things moveslower, but there's more
opportunity for, you know, littlecoalitions and little groupings
and trying to get things through.
So I'm not going to hang my hat on
one party.
I actually never voted much in my
life up until a couple of yearsago.
(14:23):
My mom was like, what?You like care about politics?
Now you're the president of theProperty Rights Association of BC.
Just to talk about that and ourassociation.
So one of the things, you know, Irecognized and we recognize as a
group is about that unifiedmessage about being professional.
We started registering theassociation for different groups,
right?So the first was the register for
the Chamber of Commerce here inVictoria.
(14:43):
Because, you know, we're smallbusinesses, we're small
entrepreneurs.
And Bruce here, the president of
the chamber, great guy.
I'm sure you guys chatted with
your chamber up in Kelowna.
You know, they're a great group,
right?They're looking out for businesses
and businesses are the backbone ofour economy and the society.
So registered for the association.
Well, one of the first events that
was put on is a breakfast withPremier David Eby.
(15:04):
Yes.
It happened last Tuesday.
Nice.
So we booked a table and
coincidentally got like put rightin front of his podium which was
pretty good and we got our nametag on our table right west coast
association property rights and myadvocate partner two of us because
we're of the people skills we kindof take the advocacy stuff he just
kind of looked at me said youshould go talk to david i'm like
(15:28):
what what do you mean go talk tohim because he's right there he's
talking to the chief police youknow he's walking around mingling
yeah i said okay yeah so i walkover to him i shake his hand i
said hi i'm orion rogers and gaveme that look of i know who you are
nice you have a lawsuit against meat the moment and i just looked
him in the eye i said listen yourshort-term rental policy is really
(15:51):
affecting me and i said there's agroup of table of folks behind me
that's negatively impacting it'sgoing to change their lives And he
came over to our table and he wentaround, he shook hands and did get
to meet everybody and had aconversation with one of our last
fellows.
And, you know, we were able to
just kind of get a little more ofa direct email and, you know,
hopefully we can send someinformation there that maybe they
(16:13):
weren't looking at.
Right.
You know, that's kind of what Iget at.
So, you know, positioning theassociation important, not
aligning with the party, but, youknow, providing information and
trying to consult because weweren't consulted as an industry.
You know, that's the focus, right?Kevin Falcon is going to be here
in a couple of weeks.
We might go do the same thing
there and just meet him and haveconversation, right?
Trying to educate where we Whatabout Ravi?
(16:35):
Are you to meet him?We've tried a lot, spoken with his
chief of staff and executiveassistant a few times, has no time
for a meeting.
I don't think Ravi is the reason
this legislation is in.
I think this is close to the
premier's heart.
He's had a lot of stuff about
housing in his career, a lot ofinitiatives, a lot of talk there.
And I think this stems from thetop.
And Ravi, he's a spokesperson,right?
He's a spokesperson for theMinistry of Housing.
And so it's a two-prong approach,of course, right?
(16:55):
You try and get in the door, but Ido think it was stopped with Mr.
Eby.
And so trying to get in front of
him, have conversation has alwaysbeen our goal.
So do you think he actuallybelieves that this will help
affordability and help housing?Or is it more of, you know what,
my voting people, I'm going toconnect with them on these certain
topics and it's going to be goodfor my campaign.
I think if he's going to increaseone thing out of this policy, it's
votes.
(17:15):
You think he's going to get more
votes because of this?Well, I think that's his goal.
Yeah.
I mean, it is a campaign run,
right?And campaign runs don't start, you
know, three weeks before theelection.
They start a year before theelection, right?
So I guess the question is like,if he thinks it's just a campaign
run, like what are you guys tryingto communicate to him that would
change his mind?Like, I know you're trying to
educate on a whole amount ofdifferent levels.
(17:36):
Like in Kelowna, we're talkingabout, you know, the medical
industry is huge here, right?We're at the interior hospital,
like basically from Prince Georgeto Vancouver.
So we can communicate on thosecertain avenues that like feel
very powerful.
But if he's just going after the
polls, what do you do to changehis mind other than hire a lawyer?
But in your conversation with him,what do you try and get I don't
(17:57):
think anything this side of theelection would be negotiated with
the NDP, unfortunately, becausethey've hung their hat on this.
I mean, the Homes for People planstarted in April, I think it was
released last year, right?Touting all of the big initiatives
and how much money they're goingto spend.
Of course, this was a line item inthere, which has now turned into a
thing, right?And that thing is because of us.
And so, you know, provide smartdata of these are the people that
(18:20):
you're impacting.
So they brought it out.
And this is back to theconversation with this.
When we talked about who ishurting at this table, he said,
well, this wasn't my intent was tohurt, you know, you types of
people because we're not corporateinvestors.
You know, everyone sitting aroundthe table either owns one or owns
a business that is servicing anumber of them and has staff and
employees and, you know, they'reproviding for themselves and the
(18:41):
economy.
The short-term rental legislation
came out and was blunt.
And there was enough uproar from
Parksville with support of theirmayor and council.
Mayor O'Brien did a very good jobthere being loud and being on
podcasts like this and being ondiscussions.
And Parksville then received thelanguage and the regulations,
which is going to exempt them,right?
And so the idea is to show thatthese other folks where this
housing is not the stock thatthey're really going after, like,
(19:03):
you know, let's be honest, we'reall in real estate here.
A lot of these condos are north of$500,000, Easily.
are.
What's a mortgage right now?
And 400 grand off the top of yourLet's head.
go, 3,200 Taylor.
bucks.
right?3,,000, They Easily.
all What's are.
a mortgage right now?
And 400 grand off the top of yourhead.
go, 3,200 bucks.
3,200 right?
worth referral.
Plus strata, plus taxes, plus
everything else on it, right?So, you know, and then how much do
(19:26):
you need to service that debt,right?
Like, so what is your debt serviceratio on that amount?
So showing that legislation, youalready did a carve out for one
group.
This other group, again, is not
going to give you the housingstock you're going to want.
And all it's going to do is createpain and discomfort and put people
out and really, you know,financially devastate them, right?
And these are people that saved,gosh, one of my clients is an old
(19:46):
folk singer.
And she saved, you know,
everything she possibly could withher partner.
And they bought a condo to operateas a short-term rental until they
retire and then maybe one dayretiring right like there's some a
lot of sad stories there asidefrom the impact right and so how
do you get that through to thembecause i think that speaks
volumes right and especially whenit's out in the news of your
legislation is hurting people yeahyeah i was thinking about kelowna
(20:07):
like we have a few buildingscoming up like Auckland Command
that aren't even built yet thatpeople bought to short term
rental.
There's questions how these people
are going to even close, howthey're going to afford it once
they do close on the purchases.
Like the Planet of Souls, at least
that building is running rightnow.
(20:28):
You can get a tenant in there, butlike these places, they have to
come up with the money to buythem.
And Aqua is sold on the premisethat we're going to be able to do
this.
Right.
And that's a real tough one.
And, you know, this is where there
is some language around the stratatitle hotel that could fit some of
these bigger properties.
But, you know, there's a process
that'll have to go through to getthem.
Of course, we're investigatingthat as an association and who
that could apply to.
You know, the thing with
(20:50):
regulations is that,unfortunately, they can be changed
very easily at any time, right?You mean the strata regulations?
Yeah, like anything in theregulations doesn't have to go
through a legislative assembly,doesn't be voted on.
The government in power can makechanges on that.
So, you know, you want to circleback into the political side of
things.
If there was changes at the
current government to come out ofthe majority and we had more
blended thinking and governmentsthat could be approached that
(21:13):
would want to speak up and makechanges.
We could see changes at just aregulation level that could
protect or allow opportunity forshort-term rentals to continue in
some capacity in some buildings orsome zonings or some areas, right?
So again, back to the nuances too,that it can't just be blunt.
We can't just say, all propertiesin commercial zones can be
short-term rentals.
Well, that opens another can of
worms, right?So we need to get a little more
(21:35):
specific there, which theregulations are only a couple of
pages long.
Yeah.
you tried to be like superunbiased and view it from the
other way?And I'm only thinking because, you
know, I live in this bit of anecho chamber as well.
And all the stories that I haveheard are like you, it's usually
one other property that they own.
Like it's their only investment.
They're trying to get ahead inlife or it's a cleaning company or
a management company andeveryone's really struggling.
And the only other story that I'veseen, it was actually on a comic
(21:56):
call.
It was David Eby was doing a
campaign and it was out ofVancouver.
And this guy came on and he waspretty Gucci, like wearing these
sunglasses.
And he was like, yeah, you know,
like I really believe in thisaffordability and the short-term
rental legislation.
And, you know, I used to live in
like an apartment complex 10blocks away from here.
And then I saw this like Airbnbstyle property come on and, you
know, I knew that they were goingto be in pain.
So I swooped in and got it.
(22:18):
And I was like, I'm actually
trying to relate to this guy fromhis side of you, but it just seems
like such a opportunist socialist,like, Hey, someone's going to
struggle.
I'm going to maybe get a nicer
place to live in because nowpeople are kind of stuck.
So do you see any of that otherside of the argument?
Like, have you seen it whereyou're like, yeah, okay.
It makes sense for this specificarea.
I don't agree with the legislationis that it says you can rent out
(22:40):
your secondary suite, additionaldwelling unit, or carriage home.
You in Kelowna, by the way.
And that's where we get into the
restrictions for municipalities.
But they've set this floor or
ceiling, right?And they've given that as one of
the provisions.
I mean, God, I remember back to
being 20 years old, I rented abasement suite, you know, like a
five foot ceiling.
(23:00):
You had to step down into the
bathroom and you stepped up intothe kitchen.
And, you know, that was cheap,really cheap.
Right.
And we packed a few people in
there.
That's affordable.
That's affordable accommodations.
Right.
And so they're that away.
The province is taking that away.
Now, the municipalities can bemore restrictive.
And of course, a lot allow that asan option.
But the province is saying here,if you have a carriage house in
your backyard, you can rent thatas a short-term rental.
(23:21):
But the $700,000 condo that was ina commercially zoned property in
downtown Kelowna, that needs to goback to housing stock.
So I appreciate the premier'scontent creation around his ad in
Vancouver.
And in Vancouver, it was very
strict.
That was probably an illegal
operator that the guy got shutdown and he's found that place.
So that's another conversation.
So I can appreciate the fact that
there is an intent there to createthat.
I haven't seen it.
I see a lot of places for sale in
(23:43):
Victoria that aren't in short-termrental buildings.
And I keep an eye on the marketall the time.
There's always places up for sale,right?
And there is a pretty good healthyrental market, even though, you
know, claims are 1% or lower.
When you go and face a
marketplace, you do see a lot ofplaces.
The affordability, I think is whatit really comes down to, not
necessarily the availability.
And this was where we circled back
into, I don't think this stockwill help it.
So I haven't personally seen it,Taylor.
(24:05):
I try and see it from the otherside.
I try and wrap my head aroundwho's out there needing housing.
I hear Minister Kalan say, we havepeople living in RVs.
We need this housing.
And I don't know what he's on, but
it just seems like a bigdisconnect there.
And I feel terribly sorry forthose people that live in RVs or
living in tents i see them in myneighborhood i'm just trying to
(24:29):
figure out where he's tying thetwo together and the only thing i
can think of is it just looks goodtying those two together you know
in a media in a press releaseright yeah and that's unfortunate
and that circles again back intothis election year we're in yeah
have you guys had any contact withairbnb or vrbo the company reason
why i ask is because i see likesee VRBO has commercials out and
they're like, rent with VRBO.
(24:49):
We guarantee that the homeowner is
not going to be home.
And then Airbnb has one where it's
like, rent with an Airbnb.
And that way you can put your
child to bed in a different roomand you can stay up.
Your child's bedtime is noteveryone's bedtime.
And I just wonder, I brought thisup on a podcast before, but it
feels like there's an opportunityfor them to spend marketing
dollars, like kind of fluffing upthe industry as a whole, you know,
(25:10):
instead of just like trying torent out these rooms.
Like, I feel like there's a spacefor them to help because I can't
help but think, let's say we gointo this election in the fall and
EB, it's super popular and he justwins like crazy because of what
happened.
Like, it's just going to go right
across the whole province.
I feel like this is just not going
(25:33):
to stop.
And I feel like there is an
opportunity for the big company tokind of come in and help with the
PR campaign, like sell it to thepublic why these are good for our
community, right?And I just, I kind of feel like
they're missing the mark rightthere.
I don't know if you have anythoughts on that or if you reach
out to them.
it's a very convoluted situation.
I totally agree with you.
(25:54):
And that's a big argument from the
beginning of this is, where'sAirbnb?
Why are they not helping us?You know, where's the RBO?
So there's a couple differentthings and I can speak to both of
them pretty well.
I've had great conversations with
Airbnb.
You know, this is coming back from
that unified message association.
I reached out to their policy team
immediately on LinkedIn.
You know, I identified myself as
(26:15):
not president of the time, but adirector of an association.
And I got a response with thepromotion.
And so from that, we have a goodline of communication there to get
understanding of, you know, wheretheir position is.
They're a publicly traded company,right?
You know, their position isprofits.
Unfortunately, they are thecorporate entity.
They have the target on theirback.
We've been kind of roped in asguilty by association with them.
Their marketing dollars, I thinkwill always continue to be, you
(26:36):
know, about promoting Airbnb as awhole and how good Airbnb is over
their competitor, right?And same with VRBO, right?
Cat and mouse back and forthsituation.
How they've offered you know thecommunications that we have is I
don't know if we saw theireconomic report that they put out
a couple of weeks ago righttalking about the economic
benefits and impact to BC thoseare conversations that we've had
with them of like this type ofstuff is what needs to be put out
(26:57):
but it kind of gets landed on deafears because nobody wants to read
like you know never-ending dataabout how many jobs there are how
much money there is and they wantsound bites they want video clips
like we have attention spansshorter than a goldfish these days
right so yeah and those littlesoft cute commercials that are on
youtube are exactly what catchpeople but i think they are making
enemies as well like why couldn'tyou make a commercial that says
sally is sick and she had nowhereto stay and she wanted to stay in
(27:17):
an airbnb right beside thehospital you could make that
commercial pull on heartstringsand pull in dollars right like i
don't understand why that's not ayeah no i agree with you matt and
you know what topic of discussionfor my next meeting with them i
think the hotel one that is theirway of like trying to fight the
hotel industry a bit which yeahyou know public facing is a spark
of, well, yeah, I don't want to goto bed with my kids.
Like, of course, that doesn't makesense.
Or I don't want to go in a groupwith the three of us or four of us
(27:39):
and we all got to stay in separaterooms, right?
Because, you know, we want to bein a house or something like that.
But I think they have tons of roomfor improvement.
Publicly traded company.
I ask a lot of questions in those
meetings and I get certainresponses.
From the hotel side, like I knowwe hear a little bit of
speculation in the background, butlike, is the hotel industry
(27:59):
driving some of this campaign alittle bit?
Like, I think there was a rumorthat they were funding the McGill
report that came out that kind ofwas the catalyst for a lot of
this.
Are you guys kind of battling the
hotel industry as well for this?Like, where are you with We are
(28:20):
100% battling our competitors,right?
This is a customer segment that isvery desired, right?
Short-term rental folks, guests,we just talked about this, right?
Like staying in a bigger place,more people splitting it up.
And the hotel industry, without adoubt, funded the McGill study,
which technically actually wasn'ta McGill study.
We've done a great report on this.
It was just a gun for hire, a
professor from the McGillUniversity, David Washmith, that
(28:41):
was paid by the BC HotelAssociation to do this economic
impact report on housing.
We reached out to McGill asking
for information and they sent anemail back saying, we received no
money from this.
And this was created by an
independent contractor, aprofessor of theirs.
But they've asked to pull theirbranding and logo off of it.
Because the branding was on it andit was touted as the McGill study,
which is Canada's renowneduniversity.
Interesting.
The Harvard of Canada.
So we're toe-to-toe with the hotelassociation yes if you go back if
(29:05):
you look at lobbying registersfrom the last you know couple
years you will see the presidentof the hotel association meeting
with rabbi khalan over and overand over again right discussing
housing and you know you gottawonder what is the intent there
that the hotel is talking abouthousing with the housing minister
yeah mean there would be like anoutcry if they all of a sudden
forced legislation on hotels thatthey had to convert all of their
(29:25):
units into like long-termaccommodation you know it's
essentially the same thing of wehave these purpose-built airbnb
short-term rental type places andwe're being forced to change the
use of it.
It'd be the same if they did that
to the hotel industry.
And the wild thing is, here's our
argument, right?So the premier got up in a press
release on April 18th and said, weare building more hotels in
Vancouver to fill the demand.
And without this legislation,
(29:46):
those hotel developers would nothave moved on buying these lands
and building these buildings,right?
So a couple of arguments to unpackthere are, why are we wasting
resources for construction on morehotel building?
Why are developers not beingincentivized to build more
housing?And if you build a hotel, the
hotel is zero housing.
And if you build an apartment
building, the apartment buildingcould be mixed use of short-term
rentals stroke a hotel offeringprincipal residence owner occupied
properties and of course therecould be uh sort of there as well
so no hotel offers zero long-termhousing options you nailed it
(30:07):
there is like if the hotels wereforced to convert to long-term
well they couldn't because theywould need extension for
renovations to do it because allhotels are built with a bed and a
room and, you know, an end tableand some bad coffee.
Have you guys thought about likekind of outside the box ideas?
Like, for example, only short termreplace in July and August.
They can't do it from Septembertill June.
(30:28):
Like for a place like Kelowna andI'm thinking Victoria, I think
something like that would workbecause we have university town.
The Airbnbs make most of the moneyin the summer anyway.
Have you thought about that atall?
The simple answer to that ismunicipalities liberating the
principal residence cap in thoseareas.
So like Playa del Sol, well,they're not all principal
residence.
(30:48):
Some of those folks don't live
there.
It's their second property.
leading into that, a first stepwould be having municipalities
come in line with the liberationof you can rent out your place for
the days that you don't occupy it,right?
So six months you're working away,maybe in the winters for snowbirds
that go down to Arizona, they canrent out their place short term in
(31:08):
the winters.
You know, that doesn't always work
for all of it.
It wouldn't be a blanket.
I mean, I know you're trying to dois put it just on tourism.
But there's a need for thatalternate accommodation all year,
right?Like you said, with the medical, I
mean, I have people here that aretravel nurses.
And I also have people that arecancer patients, right that are
(31:31):
here for cancer treatment.
And so those contracts and those
doctor's dates, they come atrandom at any time of year.
So I think just having theopportunity or flexibility to do
it in a six-month period would begreat.
That would be a big step forward.
How's that?
At least at the municipalityright?
Yeah.
I mean, one thing is last year,
obviously we had some prettysevere fires in the Okanagan,
(31:52):
displaced lots of families, butover 100 structures were lost.
It would have been incredibly badtiming if they implemented this
legislation last year this time,because where does everyone go
that lost their home?I still know people that are not
back in their home right now, andthey're staying in this Airbnb.
But since they've been there forlike 100 some odd days,
technically it's okay.
But if that were ever to happen
(32:13):
again, there's no No.
And we just saw that the BC Hotel
Association has worked with theprovincial government to create a
new emergency evacuees portal.
And I believe Kelowna and Dicton
and Prince George can quote me,but three cities that have had
recent, you know, very devastatingfires are on the list for that.
So instead of, you know, thinkingabout all of the accommodations
(32:35):
that could be utilized for people,because let's be honest, we're in
an emergency, right?Why are we segmenting out areas
that can't be used?They're trying to funnel them into
a hotel.
I think about my family of four
with a dog if i lost my house andi had to go live in a hotel room
with two beds for the next sorryhow long did you say your friend
(32:57):
was there a days just moved backin i think yeah i'm not sure how
many like breakfast my kids wouldwant to eat out of coffee mugs you
know like because let's be honestyou're not going to have the
facilities.
It just wouldn't work.
It doesn't make sense.
Hey, if it's a service based
industry and you're notcompetitive, you're just not going
to survive.
So I feel like hotels, if they
(33:18):
want to compete, they really needto up their game.
If that's the case.
And I'm sure we'll see it.
I mean, I think you guys just hada development application come in
for the Ramada or something that'sin town, right?
And right in the application, itmentions fill the void of the
short-term rentals.
And I think they're planning to
build suites in that building.
So conveniently came out, you
know, right as this legislationwas coming in.
(33:39):
The writing is on the wall.
It's hard to talk about, you know,
scandal and tinfoil hat stuff and,you know, present that out to the
everyday public.
I think the more important thing
is just talking about the impactthat people will feel from this,
not just from a stakeholder, but,you know, from a guest, right, as
(34:01):
well, trying to figure out wherethey're going to go.
And just reminding people that,you know, you're not staying local
anymore when you're off staying ina hotel, your money is being
funneled out and to the nether ofpublic trading and some sort of
corporate entity that's probablyoverseas, right?
Well, we should get to our wrap upquestions.
And this is kind of a funny one tostart with.
If you could buy one property inthe Okanagan in the next 12
(34:23):
months, what would it be?I think a Malibu Wake Center is Is
that qualified as a quarantineboat maybe?
At least I can use it and rent itout.
That's a good answer.
I love the Okanagan.
How about, you know, a place up inBig White would be nice, right?
Because they're exempt, I believe.
So that's true.
now, fingers crossed.
Yeah, for now, right?
You have exemptions.
(34:43):
Exemptions should be considered
for other areas.
right.
If you could tell your tell your20 year old self any piece of
advice what would you tellyourself know that's always the
magic question i got in troublelots when i was a kid but i was
smart and i saved some money aboutreal estate in my mid-20s if i was
(35:04):
20 what would i tell myself don'tmess up your driver's license oh
yeah yeah don't drink and be Besmart.
Yeah, that is quality advice,dude.
Yeah.
Because that will haunt you for
the rest of your life, right?Yeah.
What's your favorite charity orhow do you give back?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I don't have a specific charity
(35:24):
that I like contribute to, but Iconsider my time valuable and, you
know, what my ups and downs thatI've learned in life.
And so just giving time to peopleto have a conversation, especially
younger generations, right?Like when I meet people that are,
you know, five or 10 years youngerme or 20 year old, right.
And just having some smartconversation with them and just
giving them a moment or evenletting them, you know, give them
(35:45):
your number and feel free to reachout anytime.
And yeah, so I guess my charitywould just be my time.
And that doesn't mean for younger,even older folks, you know, like
you see someone that just needshelp and just help them across the
street.
I know that's a cliche of like an
older, you know, but even justtalking to senior citizens and
whatever, giving some businessadvice to someone that's not doing
so well or lending some bit ofmoney.
(36:07):
You know, like I think there'sjust so many ways to give back and
people underestimate what they cando just with 15 minutes to an hour
of their time, you know, a day ora couple of I love it.
All right.
How can Taylor or I or our
listener help you?What do you want us to do?
Like, is there anything thatshould be Yeah.
I mean, you know, right now we'vegot two entities going on.
(36:28):
We've got the Property RightsAssociation of BC.
You can head over to that website,you know, learn about our
association.
You can sign up for a membership
there if you feel that you want tocontribute to this and get
involved.
Financially, we're trying to be
forging the path and a pioneerwith an association that's really
looking out for people that careabout their property rights in BC.
(36:50):
And that's what we're fighting foron one aspect.
Short-term rentals is a focustoday.
But we could be talking aboutsomething different tomorrow.
We've also created a publiccampaign or a public facing entity
called the BC Short-Term RentalAssociation.
This is what I was talking aboutbefore.
Go over to bcstra.ca and justcheck that out.
And that's just our, you know,trying to change the narrative and
educate people on why short-termrentals are important and just
(37:11):
kind of promote the industry andbe an advocate, you know, for the
industry across the province.
Well, thank you for your time.
And thank you so much for whatyou're doing.
Cause yeah, I'm glad you'refighting this battle.
I would not be the perfect personto do it.
I'd be kicking and screaming thewhole way and doesn't get things
done.
So that was ups and downs, right?
It's very emotional for a lot ofpeople.
(37:32):
I think, you know, I could tellanybody anything like finances and
real estate and, you know, whentimes get tough, it's hard on your
family.
It's hard on your loved ones.
And, you know, try and justremember that like the sun is
shining and try and stay positiveabout it.
And remember, real estate shouldhave a long horizon, right?
Like very much investing for two,five, 10 year plans and able to
accommodate ups and downs inbetween.
Right.
For Agreed.
(37:52):
thanks a Ryan.
Yeah, lot, no worries.
Yeah,
Welcome back to the Kelowna RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
I'm your real estate agent host,Matt Glenn.
How'd your triathlon, how'd thecherry blossom go for It was a lot
of fun, man.
Those events are awesome.
I guarantee I'm probably the onlyperson that jumped in the pool
without his goggles on.
purpose, you No, not on purpose.
They were still on my head.
I was one of the last guys to
enter the pool.
(00:22):
You know, you choose your time so
So you don't like delay everyonein the pool.
Cause you're swimming like a snakeformation.
I was chatting to a guy abouttrying to figure out how the clock
worked.
And then I jumped in and my first
couple, like, you know, littlehead bobs, I'm like, I can't see a
freaking thing in So you didn'tnotice when he hit the water, it
took you a while to figure it out.
It me about, I don't know, know
five to ten seconds and then i putmy goggles on and then after that
(00:44):
i was off man i was killing itgood for you did you do pretty
well i yeah that's relative i didfinish no i uh yeah it was a lot
fun emily crushed it as well so itwas a good day the weather was
nice and the fans were out Sonice.
Yeah, that was awesome to you dothat.
OK, and this is your last week tovote for Kelowna now.
So like we said, we are in thevoting round.
(01:06):
Thank you very much for nominatingus.
If you go down to media, bestlocal podcast, lick real estate
podcast to help us out.
we can vote till the 18th.
By the time this gets released, Ithink there'll be like four or
five days left to vote.
Yeah, so far I've seen a lot of
people posting that they did votefor us and sending me messages.
So love to see that.
We would love, love to win this
category.
I think we will.
I think we got a shot.
(01:27):
Yeah.
Do we get maybe like a free lunchout of it or something?
I don't know.
Whatever we get, even if it's just
a pat on the back from each other.
happy with it.
Yeah.
If we don't win, I'm not giving
you that.
Fair enough.
Okay.
Leading into today's show, awesome
show, pretty relevant with talkingabout short-term rental
legislation.
So we had on Orion Rogers from
Property Rights BC.
(01:48):
They are the organization that
fundraised, I want to say around$150,000 for a legal action
lawsuit against the provincialgovernment.
They are going to court in thenext couple of months.
So it's actually happeningprobably quicker than I
anticipated, but he kind of ran usthrough, you know, his origin
(02:08):
story, why he is, you know,fighting this battle and yeah,
he's a pretty good voice to have.
And their seem like super
reasonable, what they're askingfor.
They agree with a lot of thingsthat have been happening, like the
whole movement does.
I don't know what the whole
movement, but this lawsuit doesand Ryan specifically, but what do
(02:28):
they want?They want an exemption of the
residents and non-conformingsuites.
And they seem to be going about itthe right way.
Like they're actually going andmeeting face-to-face with
politicians, you know, Ravi andEby.
They're shaking hands and justtrying to unify the voice.
So yeah, we would love to havethem back on in the future.
But yeah, this is kind of just theinitial, hey, this is our
(02:49):
organization.
This is what we're doing.
If you want to be part of it, youknow, go to their website.
You can sign up for theirnewsletter you can become a member
you can make a donation so yeahdefinitely a good organization to
have yeah it's property rightsassociation so like right now
they're fighting the short-termrentals at the provincial level
and also at the municipal level hewas saying but then that's just
the issue of the day today so likethey're going to be fighting for
(03:11):
your rights in the as well yeahYeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's a valuable guy to
connect with.
And then this show and every other
show, we are sponsored by Century21.
So thank you for that, guys.
21 Assurance Realty, the best
brokerage in the Okanagan.
From my own experience, also my
opinion, obviously.
And just from what I've seen, it's
a great place to be.
Love for you to us.
Give them a shout out on Kelownanow as well.
(03:31):
Yes, definitely do that.
But vote for us first.
Vote for us at the same time.
Enjoy the show, you guys.
Okay, thanks for joining us.
Ryan Rogers, President of Property
Rights Association, BC.
How are you doing today?
time coming having you on here.
Yeah, thanks.
I mean, caught some of yourepisodes in the beginning, right?
Amanda and Dina and stuff likethat.
And so, you know, it's great tochat about this.
(03:55):
And here we are past this May 1stthreshold Yeah.
So has anything changed like inthe last few days over that?
very like, well, of course, thingshave changed, right?
You know, short-term rentals arenow restricted across the
province.
I mean, that is what has changed.
If you go and search for ashort-term rental on any of the
platforms, you will see next tonone, right?
Yeah.
Well, maybe we can just start
(04:15):
with, we like to connect ourguests to our listener with what's
your perfect Friday look like?What do you kind of do?
What's your role?And leading into the weekend, what
do you do for fun?Yeah.
I mean, father of two, I got aseven and nine-year-old.
So Fridays are kind of that end ofthe week.
Routine down picking up the kidsweather's nice we just get out and
have some fun right after schoolyou know go play some sports or
(04:36):
even go to like the arcade andplay some video games and then
friday's movie night for ourfamily oh wow we don't blockbuster
anymore right we can't go get amovie so we try and like pick a
movie as a family and sit down andenjoy it put our phones away i
think that's you know i'm reallypassionate about that right now is
just keep the screens out of it inthe evenings and that's it put
down your phone and focus the tvoh i love that though man i love
(04:57):
too yeah i mean focus on yourfamily right so you know like yeah
make popcorn and include the kidsyou know there's seven and nine
now right and they're i thinkthat's awesome fantastic so that's
a passion for me right kind oflike have these device-free
moments and then that spills intothe weekend that sets the weekend
out right and the weekend issports in the mornings and getting
out and having fun and you knowwe're west coasters right like we
need to be yeah rain or shineoutdoors doing something so i
(05:18):
think it's super important i thatthat brings me back to my
childhood the tgif man going toget some and yes born in 84 you
know like i remember a time beforethe screen you know i grew up on
the gulf islands here so riding abike across gulf islands go see
your friends yeah calling off totalk to their parents yeah
mysterious my friend home yeahyeah we had to do that all the
time that would never happennowadays yeah i wasn't even
allowed inside until it was dark.
(05:39):
Like if it was sunny I wasn't
allowed to play inside.
I have locked my kids outside.
So I'm ready for them to come in.
Let's jump right into it, Ryan.
So is there anything about thisshort-term legislation that you'd
like?You know what I think, and I've
said this from the beginning, 80to 90% of this legislation is
great.
You know, an industry needs
regulation.
You've got the real estate
industry has the BC real estateassociation, You know, there's
(05:59):
self-governing bodies there.
Pretty much every industry has
some sort of self-governing body.
Unfortunately, we didn't have that
in short-term rentals.
You know, it was just left up to
municipalities to figure out a waythrough this.
And then what we've seen is, youknow, hotel industry kind of
deciding to regulate it.
Take the city of Victoria and the
city of Kelowna, for example, verystrict licensing regimes, right?
Bylaw enforcement, ticketing, theprovince essentially just mimicked
(06:20):
what they had, but they went astep further and they got more
aggressive with the legalnon-conforming and not honoring
zonings like Playa del Sol andthese commercially zoned
properties.
legal non-conforming in Victoria,
you know, amended the localgovernment act to take that out.
And so I think if they had avoidedthose two pieces, we probably
wouldn't have seen as muchpushback for sure.
They would have just beenaccepted.
And the people that had a businesslicense that were operating
(06:43):
lawfully legally, they would havebeen happy.
They would have said, oh, great.
You're going after the bad people.
You're going after the bad apples.
You've recognized that my ticket
here is a ticket to operate,right?
And so what's your rolespecifically?
Like, I guess you were a propertymanager, owner prior to this.
(07:03):
And then obviously once this allhappened, were you kind of taking
the lead on starting thisassociation or what's your
position exactly?Yeah.
Yeah.
And you nailed it.
I started with my own property.
You know, I still only own one and
a friend, you know, like yourself,I was actually a mortgage broker
decided to, you know, say, Hey,I've got a secondary property.
How's your short term rental stuffgoing, took it on, and started to
amass that created a companycoasting those vacation rentals
(07:24):
with my wife.
And when this came in, you know,
we already got through thepandemic, which was unprecedented,
hard times for tourism, you know,like that wasn't very long ago of,
you know, seeing cancellationsafter cancellations and just full
disruption to the industry.
And so we managed to get through
that and grew our business.
We've always grown at Lawfully.
We've always hosted guests ortaken on clients with, you know,
the zoning or requirements tooperate.
And so when this happens, we knewthere was going to be rumblings of
(07:48):
it happening.
We actually, as managers here in
Victoria had already kind of had ameeting set up to get together and
chat about this stuff that wascoming.
And then it came fast, heavy, andstrong.
And, you know, there was what, 10managers in Victoria got together
and about four to six of them kindof subgrouped after that.
And we're like, what do we need tochallenge this?
Why is the industry just kind ofbeing walked over?
(08:10):
Why does nobody care?We recognize it's because there
was no unified message and unifiedvoice, you know, circle back to
that association or self governingbody of an industry.
This one didn't have it.
So we said, let's create an
association.
We started with property rights
because we recognize that this iswhat the trample was on a little
bit.
I do think at some point it will
evolve into something else, right?I'd like to see a BC short-term
(08:32):
rental association, which, youknow, we've put the wheels in
motion for that because I thinkthat will be a more recognized
brand and eight directors totalcreated this entity.
We all just recognized everyonehas a different strength in this.
I don't like to be on camera, butI like to connect with people.
That's my superpower, right?And I've got a team of love data,
you know, they just love crunchingnumbers and combing through data.
And out of that, we called eachother the kind of needle movers.
(08:55):
And we created this association,registered it, you know, member
funded, everything above board, soit would be actually recognized
and then create that unifiedmessage.
So we can go to politicians, andthey say, oh, it's just one group
speaking to us, you know,representing a membership, right?
I think so far it's beensuccessful, you know, in being And
you guys have started the legalaction on this pretty early as
well.
Was that you that kind of were the
front runner for that Yeah, whatwe did was, you know, we just
(09:19):
heard from affected people, justlike any union, any association,
any group, when you have enoughmembers that are affected by this,
they're talking about, what can wedo?
I want to support something.
I don't believe this is right.
You start to take that together,you unpack it and look at it and
say, okay, there are grounds here.
You consult with the right people.
We took a couple of differentlegal counsels and opinions.
Cox Taylor was, you know, JohnAlexander, he's a well-renowned,
(09:40):
you know, Victoria and BC land uselawyer, said, I see an argument
here.
I see that the government has not
recognized areas in theirlegislation that are directly
affecting and cancelling vestedrights in everyday people.
And so that's the challenge.
We're not challenging the
legislation as a whole.
We're not challenging, you know,
is this good for housing, which weall believe, you know, housing is
important.
What we're challenging is the fact
that people that were lawfully,operating legally, having their
(10:03):
vested rights cancelled, if theywere originally zoned for it?
Or is it people that had abusiness license operating, just
be allowed to continue to operate?Or like you said, compensation,
would we look for compensation forthose people?
I it's multi-tiered.
The actual petition, which I'll
send you a copy if you haven't hada chance to look at it already,
are attacking parts 14 and 36.
Section 36 is the legal
(10:23):
non-conforming removal, soamending the local government acts
to not offer legal non-conformingprotections.
And part 14 is the principalresidence requirement, right?
And so when we look at those twopieces, those would actually
alleviate across the province andallow people to then continue
doing short-term rentals in theway that they were inside of their
municipal bylaws, right?So the municipal bylaws could
then, again, as Mr. Kalon and EBhave touted, the municipal bylaws
(10:45):
can be more restrictive than theprovincial legislation.
they are in Kelowna.
they are in Kelowna, right?
You were just talking about thatbefore the show.
And same in Victoria, right?So there is an ability for the
legislation to be the floor.
I know they call it the floor, but
(11:09):
I like to think of it as, youknow, the ceiling essentially
can't go higher and to bring thatdown lower and lower.
Now, with smart consultationamongst the cities, I think there
could be nuances and carve outswhere the provincial legislation
and the data sharing and all ofthat, right, for helping with
enforcement, working together withmunicipal bylaws could offer a
very good landscape, a healthylandscape for short-term rentals
(11:33):
to operate without the unintendedconsequences.
So right now, it's to removesections 14 and 36 in short, but
we're into litigation.
There could be a moment of
negotiation at some point.
Those parts are unknown until we
arrive at those moments, which wehaven't yet.
Hopefully, we will soon.
I know legal action can take
forever, but is there kind of atimeframe that we're anticipating
(11:53):
to hear news on this?Yeah.
We're looking for this summer,kind of mid-June is when we should
have some clear understandings.
Again, can always get moved around
or pushed.
And so we're not hanging our hats
on those dates, but we're workingtowards... you know, a lot of
people thought it was going to beMay 1st.
We're going to have anunderstanding.
We're going to stop it, but itjust doesn't work out that way.
Right.
So, and the legal strategy
(12:16):
continues to change as it needs toWell, that's pretty quick,
actually.
Yeah.
That's just for initials.
I mean, then it can get kicked
down the road again.
And, you know, just like any other
kind of legal challenge and otherlitigation.
So I can speak a little bit to itand talk about the body of it, but
obviously the timelines and stuff,there's just so much unknowns
(12:37):
there.
Yeah.
And, you know, as we crossdifferent little mini thresholds,
like we just crossed the May 1stone, and we had another one that
was there just kind of based onsome information.
We just keep updating our membersas best we can.
Yeah.
And what about, like, challenging
this could take a long time, but,like, we do have an election
coming up in the fall.
Like, are you pushing people
(12:58):
towards voting, obviously, butvoting a specific way or specific
candidates or party or like, haveyou thought about that at all?
Yeah, I mean, this is a discussionthat we've been having a lot.
We are entering election seasonvery quickly.
Yeah, yeah.
You can see it, you know, in
Facebook ads and stuff like that.
You're starting to see notices of,
you know, what you can talk about,what you can't talk about.
And our member base will vote howthey want to vote.
You know, everyone's got anopinion.
(13:19):
We all know what opinions are likeand everyone has one, right?
And so, you know, my stance on itis let's look at what the current
government has done.
Has it been successful?
Has there been shortfalls?Which government could do a better
job?Which government is sympathetic to
this?We've seen Karim Kapatrick get up
there and enhance our legislativejust going after Ravi Kolan.
But she's stepping down in a year.
She's not going to run again,
right?So you've got someone from the BC
United that is just driving ithome.
(13:39):
I think that's doing a great jobof just bringing more public
perception and helping change anarrative around what we've kind
of stigmatized, you know,demonized here, short-term
rentals, this bad term.
And so when I look at the upcoming
election, I see an opportunity forchange.
We have a majority governmentcurrently.
I would like to see it split andbroken down.
And if two other contenders gotin, you know, maybe they could be
conversations that they vote in ablock over certain topics, right?
(14:01):
So now we have a blendedgovernment over three people,
which, you know, let's be honest,blended governments, things move
slower, but you've got more voicesinvolved in policy change, right?
And again, hence why things moveslower, but there's more
opportunity for, you know, littlecoalitions and little groupings
and trying to get things through.
So I'm not going to hang my hat on
one party.
I actually never voted much in my
life up until a couple of yearsago.
(14:23):
My mom was like, what?You like care about politics?
Now you're the president of theProperty Rights Association of BC.
Just to talk about that and ourassociation.
So one of the things, you know, Irecognized and we recognize as a
group is about that unifiedmessage about being professional.
We started registering theassociation for different groups,
right?So the first was the register for
the Chamber of Commerce here inVictoria.
(14:43):
Because, you know, we're smallbusinesses, we're small
entrepreneurs.
And Bruce here, the president of
the chamber, great guy.
I'm sure you guys chatted with
your chamber up in Kelowna.
You know, they're a great group,
right?They're looking out for businesses
and businesses are the backbone ofour economy and the society.
So registered for the association.
Well, one of the first events that
was put on is a breakfast withPremier David Eby.
(15:04):
Yes.
It happened last Tuesday.
Nice.
So we booked a table and
coincidentally got like put rightin front of his podium which was
pretty good and we got our nametag on our table right west coast
association property rights and myadvocate partner two of us because
we're of the people skills we kindof take the advocacy stuff he just
kind of looked at me said youshould go talk to david i'm like
(15:28):
what what do you mean go talk tohim because he's right there he's
talking to the chief police youknow he's walking around mingling
yeah i said okay yeah so i walkover to him i shake his hand i
said hi i'm orion rogers and gaveme that look of i know who you are
nice you have a lawsuit against meat the moment and i just looked
him in the eye i said listen yourshort-term rental policy is really
(15:51):
affecting me and i said there's agroup of table of folks behind me
that's negatively impacting it'sgoing to change their lives And he
came over to our table and he wentaround, he shook hands and did get
to meet everybody and had aconversation with one of our last
fellows.
And, you know, we were able to
just kind of get a little more ofa direct email and, you know,
hopefully we can send someinformation there that maybe they
(16:13):
weren't looking at.
Right.
You know, that's kind of what Iget at.
So, you know, positioning theassociation important, not
aligning with the party, but, youknow, providing information and
trying to consult because weweren't consulted as an industry.
You know, that's the focus, right?Kevin Falcon is going to be here
in a couple of weeks.
We might go do the same thing
there and just meet him and haveconversation, right?
Trying to educate where we Whatabout Ravi?
(16:35):
Are you to meet him?We've tried a lot, spoken with his
chief of staff and executiveassistant a few times, has no time
for a meeting.
I don't think Ravi is the reason
this legislation is in.
I think this is close to the
premier's heart.
He's had a lot of stuff about
housing in his career, a lot ofinitiatives, a lot of talk there.
And I think this stems from thetop.
And Ravi, he's a spokesperson,right?
He's a spokesperson for theMinistry of Housing.
And so it's a two-prong approach,of course, right?
(16:55):
You try and get in the door, but Ido think it was stopped with Mr.
Eby.
And so trying to get in front of
him, have conversation has alwaysbeen our goal.
So do you think he actuallybelieves that this will help
affordability and help housing?Or is it more of, you know what,
my voting people, I'm going toconnect with them on these certain
topics and it's going to be goodfor my campaign.
I think if he's going to increaseone thing out of this policy, it's
votes.
(17:15):
You think he's going to get more
votes because of this?Well, I think that's his goal.
Yeah.
I mean, it is a campaign run,
right?And campaign runs don't start, you
know, three weeks before theelection.
They start a year before theelection, right?
So I guess the question is like,if he thinks it's just a campaign
run, like what are you guys tryingto communicate to him that would
change his mind?Like, I know you're trying to
educate on a whole amount ofdifferent levels.
(17:36):
Like in Kelowna, we're talkingabout, you know, the medical
industry is huge here, right?We're at the interior hospital,
like basically from Prince Georgeto Vancouver.
So we can communicate on thosecertain avenues that like feel
very powerful.
But if he's just going after the
polls, what do you do to changehis mind other than hire a lawyer?
But in your conversation with him,what do you try and get I don't
(17:57):
think anything this side of theelection would be negotiated with
the NDP, unfortunately, becausethey've hung their hat on this.
I mean, the Homes for People planstarted in April, I think it was
released last year, right?Touting all of the big initiatives
and how much money they're goingto spend.
Of course, this was a line item inthere, which has now turned into a
thing, right?And that thing is because of us.
And so, you know, provide smartdata of these are the people that
(18:20):
you're impacting.
So they brought it out.
And this is back to theconversation with this.
When we talked about who ishurting at this table, he said,
well, this wasn't my intent was tohurt, you know, you types of
people because we're not corporateinvestors.
You know, everyone sitting aroundthe table either owns one or owns
a business that is servicing anumber of them and has staff and
employees and, you know, they'reproviding for themselves and the
(18:41):
economy.
The short-term rental legislation
came out and was blunt.
And there was enough uproar from
Parksville with support of theirmayor and council.
Mayor O'Brien did a very good jobthere being loud and being on
podcasts like this and being ondiscussions.
And Parksville then received thelanguage and the regulations,
which is going to exempt them,right?
And so the idea is to show thatthese other folks where this
housing is not the stock thatthey're really going after, like,
(19:03):
you know, let's be honest, we'reall in real estate here.
A lot of these condos are north of$500,000, Easily.
are.
What's a mortgage right now?
And 400 grand off the top of yourLet's head.
go, 3,200 Taylor.
bucks.
right?3,,000, They Easily.
all What's are.
a mortgage right now?
And 400 grand off the top of yourhead.
go, 3,200 bucks.
3,200 right?
worth referral.
Plus strata, plus taxes, plus
everything else on it, right?So, you know, and then how much do
(19:26):
you need to service that debt,right?
Like, so what is your debt serviceratio on that amount?
So showing that legislation, youalready did a carve out for one
group.
This other group, again, is not
going to give you the housingstock you're going to want.
And all it's going to do is createpain and discomfort and put people
out and really, you know,financially devastate them, right?
And these are people that saved,gosh, one of my clients is an old
(19:46):
folk singer.
And she saved, you know,
everything she possibly could withher partner.
And they bought a condo to operateas a short-term rental until they
retire and then maybe one dayretiring right like there's some a
lot of sad stories there asidefrom the impact right and so how
do you get that through to thembecause i think that speaks
volumes right and especially whenit's out in the news of your
legislation is hurting people yeahyeah i was thinking about kelowna
(20:07):
like we have a few buildingscoming up like Auckland Command
that aren't even built yet thatpeople bought to short term
rental.
There's questions how these people
are going to even close, howthey're going to afford it once
they do close on the purchases.
Like the Planet of Souls, at least
that building is running rightnow.
(20:28):
You can get a tenant in there, butlike these places, they have to
come up with the money to buythem.
And Aqua is sold on the premisethat we're going to be able to do
this.
Right.
And that's a real tough one.
And, you know, this is where there
is some language around the stratatitle hotel that could fit some of
these bigger properties.
But, you know, there's a process
that'll have to go through to getthem.
Of course, we're investigatingthat as an association and who
that could apply to.
You know, the thing with
(20:50):
regulations is that,unfortunately, they can be changed
very easily at any time, right?You mean the strata regulations?
Yeah, like anything in theregulations doesn't have to go
through a legislative assembly,doesn't be voted on.
The government in power can makechanges on that.
So, you know, you want to circleback into the political side of
things.
If there was changes at the
current government to come out ofthe majority and we had more
blended thinking and governmentsthat could be approached that
(21:13):
would want to speak up and makechanges.
We could see changes at just aregulation level that could
protect or allow opportunity forshort-term rentals to continue in
some capacity in some buildings orsome zonings or some areas, right?
So again, back to the nuances too,that it can't just be blunt.
We can't just say, all propertiesin commercial zones can be
short-term rentals.
Well, that opens another can of
worms, right?So we need to get a little more
(21:35):
specific there, which theregulations are only a couple of
pages long.
Yeah.
you tried to be like superunbiased and view it from the
other way?And I'm only thinking because, you
know, I live in this bit of anecho chamber as well.
And all the stories that I haveheard are like you, it's usually
one other property that they own.
Like it's their only investment.
They're trying to get ahead inlife or it's a cleaning company or
a management company andeveryone's really struggling.
And the only other story that I'veseen, it was actually on a comic
(21:56):
call.
It was David Eby was doing a
campaign and it was out ofVancouver.
And this guy came on and he waspretty Gucci, like wearing these
sunglasses.
And he was like, yeah, you know,
like I really believe in thisaffordability and the short-term
rental legislation.
And, you know, I used to live in
like an apartment complex 10blocks away from here.
And then I saw this like Airbnbstyle property come on and, you
know, I knew that they were goingto be in pain.
So I swooped in and got it.
(22:18):
And I was like, I'm actually
trying to relate to this guy fromhis side of you, but it just seems
like such a opportunist socialist,like, Hey, someone's going to
struggle.
I'm going to maybe get a nicer
place to live in because nowpeople are kind of stuck.
So do you see any of that otherside of the argument?
Like, have you seen it whereyou're like, yeah, okay.
It makes sense for this specificarea.
I don't agree with the legislationis that it says you can rent out
(22:40):
your secondary suite, additionaldwelling unit, or carriage home.
You in Kelowna, by the way.
And that's where we get into the
restrictions for municipalities.
But they've set this floor or
ceiling, right?And they've given that as one of
the provisions.
I mean, God, I remember back to
being 20 years old, I rented abasement suite, you know, like a
five foot ceiling.
(23:00):
You had to step down into the
bathroom and you stepped up intothe kitchen.
And, you know, that was cheap,really cheap.
Right.
And we packed a few people in
there.
That's affordable.
That's affordable accommodations.
Right.
And so they're that away.
The province is taking that away.
Now, the municipalities can bemore restrictive.
And of course, a lot allow that asan option.
But the province is saying here,if you have a carriage house in
your backyard, you can rent thatas a short-term rental.
(23:21):
But the $700,000 condo that was ina commercially zoned property in
downtown Kelowna, that needs to goback to housing stock.
So I appreciate the premier'scontent creation around his ad in
Vancouver.
And in Vancouver, it was very
strict.
That was probably an illegal
operator that the guy got shutdown and he's found that place.
So that's another conversation.
So I can appreciate the fact that
there is an intent there to createthat.
I haven't seen it.
I see a lot of places for sale in
(23:43):
Victoria that aren't in short-termrental buildings.
And I keep an eye on the marketall the time.
There's always places up for sale,right?
And there is a pretty good healthyrental market, even though, you
know, claims are 1% or lower.
When you go and face a
marketplace, you do see a lot ofplaces.
The affordability, I think is whatit really comes down to, not
necessarily the availability.
And this was where we circled back
into, I don't think this stockwill help it.
So I haven't personally seen it,Taylor.
(24:05):
I try and see it from the otherside.
I try and wrap my head aroundwho's out there needing housing.
I hear Minister Kalan say, we havepeople living in RVs.
We need this housing.
And I don't know what he's on, but
it just seems like a bigdisconnect there.
And I feel terribly sorry forthose people that live in RVs or
living in tents i see them in myneighborhood i'm just trying to
(24:29):
figure out where he's tying thetwo together and the only thing i
can think of is it just looks goodtying those two together you know
in a media in a press releaseright yeah and that's unfortunate
and that circles again back intothis election year we're in yeah
have you guys had any contact withairbnb or vrbo the company reason
why i ask is because i see likesee VRBO has commercials out and
they're like, rent with VRBO.
(24:49):
We guarantee that the homeowner is
not going to be home.
And then Airbnb has one where it's
like, rent with an Airbnb.
And that way you can put your
child to bed in a different roomand you can stay up.
Your child's bedtime is noteveryone's bedtime.
And I just wonder, I brought thisup on a podcast before, but it
feels like there's an opportunityfor them to spend marketing
dollars, like kind of fluffing upthe industry as a whole, you know,
(25:10):
instead of just like trying torent out these rooms.
Like, I feel like there's a spacefor them to help because I can't
help but think, let's say we gointo this election in the fall and
EB, it's super popular and he justwins like crazy because of what
happened.
Like, it's just going to go right
across the whole province.
I feel like this is just not going
(25:33):
to stop.
And I feel like there is an
opportunity for the big company tokind of come in and help with the
PR campaign, like sell it to thepublic why these are good for our
community, right?And I just, I kind of feel like
they're missing the mark rightthere.
I don't know if you have anythoughts on that or if you reach
out to them.
it's a very convoluted situation.
I totally agree with you.
(25:54):
And that's a big argument from the
beginning of this is, where'sAirbnb?
Why are they not helping us?You know, where's the RBO?
So there's a couple differentthings and I can speak to both of
them pretty well.
I've had great conversations with
Airbnb.
You know, this is coming back from
that unified message association.
I reached out to their policy team
immediately on LinkedIn.
You know, I identified myself as
(26:15):
not president of the time, but adirector of an association.
And I got a response with thepromotion.
And so from that, we have a goodline of communication there to get
understanding of, you know, wheretheir position is.
They're a publicly traded company,right?
You know, their position isprofits.
Unfortunately, they are thecorporate entity.
They have the target on theirback.
We've been kind of roped in asguilty by association with them.
Their marketing dollars, I thinkwill always continue to be, you
(26:36):
know, about promoting Airbnb as awhole and how good Airbnb is over
their competitor, right?And same with VRBO, right?
Cat and mouse back and forthsituation.
How they've offered you know thecommunications that we have is I
don't know if we saw theireconomic report that they put out
a couple of weeks ago righttalking about the economic
benefits and impact to BC thoseare conversations that we've had
with them of like this type ofstuff is what needs to be put out
(26:57):
but it kind of gets landed on deafears because nobody wants to read
like you know never-ending dataabout how many jobs there are how
much money there is and they wantsound bites they want video clips
like we have attention spansshorter than a goldfish these days
right so yeah and those littlesoft cute commercials that are on
youtube are exactly what catchpeople but i think they are making
enemies as well like why couldn'tyou make a commercial that says
sally is sick and she had nowhereto stay and she wanted to stay in
(27:17):
an airbnb right beside thehospital you could make that
commercial pull on heartstringsand pull in dollars right like i
don't understand why that's not ayeah no i agree with you matt and
you know what topic of discussionfor my next meeting with them i
think the hotel one that is theirway of like trying to fight the
hotel industry a bit which yeahyou know public facing is a spark
of, well, yeah, I don't want to goto bed with my kids.
Like, of course, that doesn't makesense.
Or I don't want to go in a groupwith the three of us or four of us
(27:39):
and we all got to stay in separaterooms, right?
Because, you know, we want to bein a house or something like that.
But I think they have tons of roomfor improvement.
Publicly traded company.
I ask a lot of questions in those
meetings and I get certainresponses.
From the hotel side, like I knowwe hear a little bit of
speculation in the background, butlike, is the hotel industry
(27:59):
driving some of this campaign alittle bit?
Like, I think there was a rumorthat they were funding the McGill
report that came out that kind ofwas the catalyst for a lot of
this.
Are you guys kind of battling the
hotel industry as well for this?Like, where are you with We are
(28:20):
100% battling our competitors,right?
This is a customer segment that isvery desired, right?
Short-term rental folks, guests,we just talked about this, right?
Like staying in a bigger place,more people splitting it up.
And the hotel industry, without adoubt, funded the McGill study,
which technically actually wasn'ta McGill study.
We've done a great report on this.
It was just a gun for hire, a
professor from the McGillUniversity, David Washmith, that
(28:41):
was paid by the BC HotelAssociation to do this economic
impact report on housing.
We reached out to McGill asking
for information and they sent anemail back saying, we received no
money from this.
And this was created by an
independent contractor, aprofessor of theirs.
But they've asked to pull theirbranding and logo off of it.
Because the branding was on it andit was touted as the McGill study,
which is Canada's renowneduniversity.
Interesting.
The Harvard of Canada.
So we're toe-to-toe with the hotelassociation yes if you go back if
(29:05):
you look at lobbying registersfrom the last you know couple
years you will see the presidentof the hotel association meeting
with rabbi khalan over and overand over again right discussing
housing and you know you gottawonder what is the intent there
that the hotel is talking abouthousing with the housing minister
yeah mean there would be like anoutcry if they all of a sudden
forced legislation on hotels thatthey had to convert all of their
(29:25):
units into like long-termaccommodation you know it's
essentially the same thing of wehave these purpose-built airbnb
short-term rental type places andwe're being forced to change the
use of it.
It'd be the same if they did that
to the hotel industry.
And the wild thing is, here's our
argument, right?So the premier got up in a press
release on April 18th and said, weare building more hotels in
Vancouver to fill the demand.
And without this legislation,
(29:46):
those hotel developers would nothave moved on buying these lands
and building these buildings,right?
So a couple of arguments to unpackthere are, why are we wasting
resources for construction on morehotel building?
Why are developers not beingincentivized to build more
housing?And if you build a hotel, the
hotel is zero housing.
And if you build an apartment
building, the apartment buildingcould be mixed use of short-term
rentals stroke a hotel offeringprincipal residence owner occupied
properties and of course therecould be uh sort of there as well
so no hotel offers zero long-termhousing options you nailed it
(30:07):
there is like if the hotels wereforced to convert to long-term
well they couldn't because theywould need extension for
renovations to do it because allhotels are built with a bed and a
room and, you know, an end tableand some bad coffee.
Have you guys thought about likekind of outside the box ideas?
Like, for example, only short termreplace in July and August.
They can't do it from Septembertill June.
(30:28):
Like for a place like Kelowna andI'm thinking Victoria, I think
something like that would workbecause we have university town.
The Airbnbs make most of the moneyin the summer anyway.
Have you thought about that atall?
The simple answer to that ismunicipalities liberating the
principal residence cap in thoseareas.
So like Playa del Sol, well,they're not all principal
residence.
(30:48):
Some of those folks don't live
there.
It's their second property.
leading into that, a first stepwould be having municipalities
come in line with the liberationof you can rent out your place for
the days that you don't occupy it,right?
So six months you're working away,maybe in the winters for snowbirds
that go down to Arizona, they canrent out their place short term in
(31:08):
the winters.
You know, that doesn't always work
for all of it.
It wouldn't be a blanket.
I mean, I know you're trying to dois put it just on tourism.
But there's a need for thatalternate accommodation all year,
right?Like you said, with the medical, I
mean, I have people here that aretravel nurses.
And I also have people that arecancer patients, right that are
(31:31):
here for cancer treatment.
And so those contracts and those
doctor's dates, they come atrandom at any time of year.
So I think just having theopportunity or flexibility to do
it in a six-month period would begreat.
That would be a big step forward.
How's that?
At least at the municipalityright?
Yeah.
I mean, one thing is last year,
obviously we had some prettysevere fires in the Okanagan,
(31:52):
displaced lots of families, butover 100 structures were lost.
It would have been incredibly badtiming if they implemented this
legislation last year this time,because where does everyone go
that lost their home?I still know people that are not
back in their home right now, andthey're staying in this Airbnb.
But since they've been there forlike 100 some odd days,
technically it's okay.
But if that were ever to happen
(32:13):
again, there's no No.
And we just saw that the BC Hotel
Association has worked with theprovincial government to create a
new emergency evacuees portal.
And I believe Kelowna and Dicton
and Prince George can quote me,but three cities that have had
recent, you know, very devastatingfires are on the list for that.
So instead of, you know, thinkingabout all of the accommodations
(32:35):
that could be utilized for people,because let's be honest, we're in
an emergency, right?Why are we segmenting out areas
that can't be used?They're trying to funnel them into
a hotel.
I think about my family of four
with a dog if i lost my house andi had to go live in a hotel room
with two beds for the next sorryhow long did you say your friend
(32:57):
was there a days just moved backin i think yeah i'm not sure how
many like breakfast my kids wouldwant to eat out of coffee mugs you
know like because let's be honestyou're not going to have the
facilities.
It just wouldn't work.
It doesn't make sense.
Hey, if it's a service based
industry and you're notcompetitive, you're just not going
to survive.
So I feel like hotels, if they
(33:18):
want to compete, they really needto up their game.
If that's the case.
And I'm sure we'll see it.
I mean, I think you guys just hada development application come in
for the Ramada or something that'sin town, right?
And right in the application, itmentions fill the void of the
short-term rentals.
And I think they're planning to
build suites in that building.
So conveniently came out, you
know, right as this legislationwas coming in.
(33:39):
The writing is on the wall.
It's hard to talk about, you know,
scandal and tinfoil hat stuff and,you know, present that out to the
everyday public.
I think the more important thing
is just talking about the impactthat people will feel from this,
not just from a stakeholder, but,you know, from a guest, right, as
(34:01):
well, trying to figure out wherethey're going to go.
And just reminding people that,you know, you're not staying local
anymore when you're off staying ina hotel, your money is being
funneled out and to the nether ofpublic trading and some sort of
corporate entity that's probablyoverseas, right?
Well, we should get to our wrap upquestions.
And this is kind of a funny one tostart with.
If you could buy one property inthe Okanagan in the next 12
(34:23):
months, what would it be?I think a Malibu Wake Center is Is
that qualified as a quarantineboat maybe?
At least I can use it and rent itout.
That's a good answer.
I love the Okanagan.
How about, you know, a place up inBig White would be nice, right?
Because they're exempt, I believe.
So that's true.
now, fingers crossed.
Yeah, for now, right?
You have exemptions.
(34:43):
Exemptions should be considered
for other areas.
right.
If you could tell your tell your20 year old self any piece of
advice what would you tellyourself know that's always the
magic question i got in troublelots when i was a kid but i was
smart and i saved some money aboutreal estate in my mid-20s if i was
(35:04):
20 what would i tell myself don'tmess up your driver's license oh
yeah yeah don't drink and be Besmart.
Yeah, that is quality advice,dude.
Yeah.
Because that will haunt you for
the rest of your life, right?Yeah.
What's your favorite charity orhow do you give back?
Yeah, that's a great question.
I don't have a specific charity
(35:24):
that I like contribute to, but Iconsider my time valuable and, you
know, what my ups and downs thatI've learned in life.
And so just giving time to peopleto have a conversation, especially
younger generations, right?Like when I meet people that are,
you know, five or 10 years youngerme or 20 year old, right.
And just having some smartconversation with them and just
giving them a moment or evenletting them, you know, give them
(35:45):
your number and feel free to reachout anytime.
And yeah, so I guess my charitywould just be my time.
And that doesn't mean for younger,even older folks, you know, like
you see someone that just needshelp and just help them across the
street.
I know that's a cliche of like an
older, you know, but even justtalking to senior citizens and
whatever, giving some businessadvice to someone that's not doing
so well or lending some bit ofmoney.
(36:07):
You know, like I think there'sjust so many ways to give back and
people underestimate what they cando just with 15 minutes to an hour
of their time, you know, a day ora couple of I love it.
All right.
How can Taylor or I or our
listener help you?What do you want us to do?
Like, is there anything thatshould be Yeah.
I mean, you know, right now we'vegot two entities going on.
(36:28):
We've got the Property RightsAssociation of BC.
You can head over to that website,you know, learn about our
association.
You can sign up for a membership
there if you feel that you want tocontribute to this and get
involved.
Financially, we're trying to be
forging the path and a pioneerwith an association that's really
looking out for people that careabout their property rights in BC.
(36:50):
And that's what we're fighting foron one aspect.
Short-term rentals is a focustoday.
But we could be talking aboutsomething different tomorrow.
We've also created a publiccampaign or a public facing entity
called the BC Short-Term RentalAssociation.
This is what I was talking aboutbefore.
Go over to bcstra.ca and justcheck that out.
And that's just our, you know,trying to change the narrative and
educate people on why short-termrentals are important and just
(37:11):
kind of promote the industry andbe an advocate, you know, for the
industry across the province.
Well, thank you for your time.
And thank you so much for whatyou're doing.
Cause yeah, I'm glad you'refighting this battle.
I would not be the perfect personto do it.
I'd be kicking and screaming thewhole way and doesn't get things
done.
So that was ups and downs, right?
It's very emotional for a lot ofpeople.
(37:32):
I think, you know, I could tellanybody anything like finances and
real estate and, you know, whentimes get tough, it's hard on your
family.
It's hard on your loved ones.
And, you know, try and justremember that like the sun is
shining and try and stay positiveabout it.
And remember, real estate shouldhave a long horizon, right?
Like very much investing for two,five, 10 year plans and able to
accommodate ups and downs inbetween.
Right.
For Agreed.
(37:52):
thanks a Ryan.
Yeah, lot, no worries.
Yeah,
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