May 7, 2024 • 49 mins
This is an encore episode while I focus on my teaching.
This week's Guest is Meg O'Connell.
The title for this episode was obvious. They're Meg's words. In fact, the statement is what spurred me to invite Meg to record an episode. Originally, the title was going to include the term "Common sense" because that term kept coming up in our discussion, but I chose the more impactful road.
So let's talk about common sense for a moment... The disability community has been screaming for common sense. The ability to have access for those in wheelchairs makes common sense. Braille on paper money so the blind can better determine the denomination of each bill should be common sense. For those with hearing loss to be included through proper captioning makes common sense.
Boy, we got into some topics.
Here's a quote from Meg: ”I say it all the time! Disability Inclusion is NOT just a diversity issue, it is big business. Are you tapping into the $13 Trillion market?”
I know what you're thinking: That should be common sense!
Need more common sense? Visit the Global Disability Inclusion website (Link).
Note: Oftentimes, links are not available on platforms such as Apple, iHeart, etc.. They are available within this episode on our website at https://lifesaroadtrip.podbean.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Being disabled or having a chronic illness can feel like you're moving forward in reverse.
(00:21):
I'm your host Scott Martin.
Join me and my new friends in this underrepresented community as we talk about disrupting the
status quo and creating change within the world and within ourselves.
A life's a road trip.
Hop in.
Let's turn on some tunes and go.
(00:56):
With me in the passenger seat and managing the radio for this road trip is Meg O'Connell.
The fact that Meg is an internationally recognized disability employment and inclusion expert
with over 25 years of experience in human capital management, talent acquisition, performance
management, disability inclusion, employee engagement, marketing and customer service,
(01:18):
or that she and her team have worked with some of the most, world's most recognized
brands and provide strategic program design, development and implementation of disability
employment and inclusion programs for global 500 companies, US federal contractors, colleges
and universities, nonprofits and foundations make her an interesting guess.
But for me, I was drawn to Meg being on the show after reading a tag line that's used
(01:42):
for her company, Global Disability Inclusion of which she is the CEO and founder and it
reads, inclusion means everyone.
Stop talking, start doing.
That was it for me and I wanted to get on horn to Meg and now we have her.
Hi Meg.
Hey Scott, how are you?
Good to be here.
Yeah, hey, I'm doing fine and I'm looking forward to digging into some stuff with you
because what I'm trying to do with this show is to disrupt things a little bit and to let
(02:08):
people know about the disabled community and stir things up with how the disabled community
can move forward and it's people like you that I think are disrupt or at least a supporter
for the disabled community.
So I want to open by applauding you in a recent post that pointed out that seven countries
have issued travel advisory regarding mass shootings and the lack of common sense laws
(02:32):
in the USA.
Now this is not a political show but we do support common sense.
So I just wanted to make that point because I have a platform to be able to do something
like that.
Thank you very much because it needs to be said more common sense folks.
Come on, let's get into it.
It's so true.
It's so true and I was shocked to see that especially after the recent mass shootings
(02:57):
in Texas at the mall and that countries are now saying it's tourism in America is not
safe because there's no telling what may happen because there are not common sense
gun laws.
You know when it comes down to money that's what turns things.
Yeah absolutely and I know we're going to talk about some of the other things related
(03:22):
to money and disability and all of that but we really need to get to a place that the
almighty dollar does not drive every decision that we make and unfortunately we're not there
there as a country and to have you know the Texas not only the Texas governor but other
(03:43):
people say oh it's not a gun issue it's a mental health issue like that's not their
responsibility or they don't have a role to play in that especially in Texas's example
they are the worst state in the country for mental health resources and supports so let's
(04:05):
get to it governor get busy you got a lot of work to do.
I'd say not a gun issue started dressing the mental health issues.
Let's do it.
So speaking about mental health I've got taken from one of your recent posts on LinkedIn
says our privacy and mental health apps is being sold for profit along with questions
we text and information about health conditions you're referring to an article which Politico
(04:29):
put out that's discovered they describe as the creepy side of online therapy apps many
use AI to respond to people reaching out so this means that a person's most difficult
times AI is responding not a real person and and they also that you mentioned in there
it appears that the industry wide issue on online therapy platforms does not have to
(04:52):
comply with HIPAA regulations that is scary as hell.
That's mind boggling it this is one of those articles that really got me to the core especially
with all of the focus that we've had over the last several years on mental health and
as with everything on the internet there's good and there's bad right and we saw such
(05:14):
a marked surge in telehealth and mental health resources during the pandemic because everybody
was really struggling this was something completely new for us we were working from home children
were home we were confined to our spaces people were really struggling with how to navigate
that and how to make it work and you know to find out places like better health and crisis
(05:40):
text text hotline that's been around for 10 years is selling our data our email addresses
IP addresses answers to health questions that you have used on Facebook messenger or WhatsApp
(06:01):
for profit the idea is okay now we know what this person is interested interested in where
they're at how can we sell them more products and resources and you know so these third
parties now understand some of your most vulnerable issues or concerns in your life and they're
(06:23):
trying to profit off of it and I find that completely unconscionable you know the article
did talk about the lack of regulations and the fact that you know HIPAA does not apply
to online which is a huge mess but where's the ethics of the people that are running these
companies to say this is an instance where people over profits matters and actually protecting
(06:50):
people's privacy will make us more profitable because we will become the trusted leader in
this space not following the status quo of what's allowed but doing what is actually
better better for the people we're serving better for the country so it's a huge problem
(07:13):
and I think a lot of people have done that well what can I do about it everything's tracked
everywhere my phone's tracking me it's either I do this telehealth thing that may not be
completely private or I'm at risk my family's at risk of you know further mental health
(07:36):
crisis and I don't think it should be a trade-off no it shouldn't it seems like AI now is the
wild wild west just this morning I took a little bit of time for myself I like playing
fantasy baseball and I opened up one of my main sources for information in the morning
and here were dual ads one on the right and one on the left from Microsoft promoting AI
(08:02):
and I didn't want to dig into what more there is to it but yeah this thing is wide open
and it seems like there are two things that are going to be be able to stop it or change
it I would think it would be politicians but everybody's already talking about 2024 presidential
election and who's doing what and point fingers everybody so that's not going to happen then
(08:24):
it comes down to money and that's what I think it's going to come down to because here let's
one of your other posts you're right I say it all the time disability inclusion is not
just a diversity issue is big business are you tapping into the 13 trillion that's with
the tea trillion dollar market I would have supposed that that opens doors when you mentioned
(08:47):
that to people about working with you you know it does but not as many as you think
oh god I know right yeah money is a big driver so let's talk about the money but corporations
are notoriously fearful of getting something wrong and especially in the disability space
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right they don't want to have a misstep because that can be in their view harder to come back
from than not doing anything at all if we dip or toe in this and we don't do it right
then there's going to be bigger backlash if we just don't do a lot or do some trainings
or have some things like that so that's the biggest struggle is getting over that because
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even though the dollar signs are really attractive companies are really fearful of getting it
wrong and so that's where we try to help them along in their journey and you know we tell
companies all the time hey you can pilot a program for five years if you call anything
a pilot it gives you room for error for making mistakes yes because you know you probably
(09:58):
pilot every project you've implemented in your company at some point or for some phase
so you could test things out and see what works and see what doesn't it's no different
than disability inclusion you have to start somewhere yeah it just the older I get the
more I'm learning about I guess I I've always known that money drives the world which is
(10:24):
ridiculous but it's people like you and your company and I'm finding more that I have guests
on the show that are trying to dig underneath the money and try to show again where you're
going to use the term common sense as we did about guns but I think the carrot that you're
showing in front of these people is 13 trillion dollars folks and I think it's 1.8 billion
(10:46):
people worldwide have disabilities yeah it's just not it's still not being understood it really is it
and you know I think it was last month's blog post where we were talking about this in particular
and use the example of the adaptive fashion industry which 10 years ago was virtually
(11:08):
non-existent you got kind of your medical grade you know shirts that had you know the
snaps on it or magnets but it wouldn't be anything you would be caught dead in walking
around outside they were just not attractive you know but you know Mindy Shire who is the
founder of Runway of Dreams had a son with physical disabilities I believe he also uses a wheelchair
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and she was also a fashion designer so she was going and buying you know polos and ronflarens
and Tommy Hilfiger and you know and then changing the fasteners so he could you know go to the
bathroom by himself at school get himself dressed in the morning and look like every other kid
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and not look different and that really started she started knocking on doors and started with
Tommy Hilfiger and now these massive brands are getting into it she's just having her 10-year
anniversary and the adaptable fashion industry is a 400 billion dollar industry so we you know we
(12:24):
say it all the time if you're not sure how your company can get involved in this talk to your
people with disabilities whatever your products or services are I guarantee you your employees
with disabilities see a gap that you're not filling and that could be your 400 billion
dollar industry you're not tapping into just like the adaptive clothing industry oh wow there was a
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lady that was on Shark Tank not all that long ago and she was picked up on Shark Tank so I
mean invested in her I contacted her well I couldn't get to her but somebody about her being on the
show but I guess I'm I'm too small a fish or maybe she just doesn't do it but I was interested in
(13:07):
having her on to talk about this so maybe I'll reach out to the person you were just talking about
so we'll see yeah I know Mindy we just work together so I'm happy to make a connection I'll bring that
up to you cool I would love that I would really love that all right so let's talk about the amplify
survey and oh it's my passion go for it go for it tell tell us about it and and first of all
(13:28):
the is that related to the Mercer survey that you guys are involved in yes okay all right I'll
tell kind of the history of how we got there so I have been partnering with Mercer for more than
a decade at this point with a gentleman there Pete Rittigliano who is I refer to him as my data geek
(13:50):
he has a daughter a step daughter with autism he knew about my work we connected I had a previous
employer that I had you know probably 15 years ago at this point and the company at the time wasn't
looking at the disability data from our employee engagement surveys I was the head of the disability
(14:13):
employee resource group at this company and so that data was important to me even though we did
capture it but I was told well less than 1% of the population is isn't even saying they have a
disability so it's not statistically significant so I got together with Pete and we said okay well
we can look at this data what other data does Mercer have so we started tapping into their
(14:36):
global database and year over year looking at what employee engagement looked like comparing
people with disabilities and people without disabilities and so in 2021 we published that 10
year study of what employees with disabilities what their workplace experiences were like and not
(14:59):
in one single category when you think about the various category leadership opportunities for
advancement do I have the resources to do my job what's the culture like all of those categories
not a single one that employs with disabilities rate their experience better than non-disabled
colleagues and Pete who's the statistician he said statistically that's fascinating because
(15:24):
you think at least one category and not even one question was it rated better so each category has
five to eight questions in it so when we saw that we began looking at what our company is really
interested in and we saw 90% of companies are looking at gender differences 75 race and ethnicity
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but only 4% of companies are looking at disability as a diversity segment so that's problem number
one right you've got the world's largest diversity segment getting the least amount of attention
from corporations so that led to the creation of amplify which we wanted to create
and it's the first disability climate culture survey and we're we've just won our third award
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for the survey we just made fast companies most innovative company for 2023 list so we're excited
about that but it asks questions about disability and disability in the workplace so most engagement
surveys don't ask disability related questions so this asks things around accommodations around
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self-ID around do people with disabilities have the opportunity for advancement do they feel
they can advance in the same way they're non-disabled colleagues but the beauty of the survey is that
it also asks questions of those without disability so it's really a pulse survey
okay it's about 40 questions the first 20 are the same regardless of who you are then in the middle
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of the survey we ask you are you a person with a disability and we give definitions of disability
of course all questions are optional so no one's required to or are if you say no are you a colleague
co-worker parent of someone with a disability and that's where the questions then become different
if you say yes you continue to get disability specific questions if you say no you get questions
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like i see examples of my leadership talking about disability in the same way they do diversity
i see my colleagues with disabilities treated with dignity and respect i see my colleagues with
disabilities advancing at the same rate as other colleagues so you're getting at both the lived
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experience and the perception that cultural aspect of what's happening within your organization
so we're getting some really interesting data and my favorite part about it is it really sets
the stage for a company to create their next two to five-year strategy around disability inclusion
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you find out is your accommodations process working you find out do you have cultural issues or you
know you don't have an inclusive climate this one company we just did the survey with um you know
has a global presence and they found out 30 of the people that took the survey have mental health
issues so this was a huge call to action for them so they're looking at their employee assistance
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program what do we need to be providing that's different what kind of training do we need to do
for managers what resources do we need to have for employees to get the support that they need
so it really gives actionable insights for companies to say all right there's always going to be
low hanging fruit right there are gonna be things around you know accessibility benefits things like
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that but then there are the longer-term cultural components that will take longer to five years
to change a culture or shift a mindset in leadership well i'm really excited about the survey the
next run of the survey if anybody wants to take it is july 10th through the 28th so during
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disability pride month and in the anniversary the ADA okay that's cool i was gonna say and i've
been touting two things one is that i think that the disability community should just take it to
blueprint that lgbtq plus folks did and just follow that and the other thing is that to me i've
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been touting that i think the disability community has been too quiet but i think now i'm changing
my view but it's only just a tap on the door um you know when i when i look at some of this and
i'm learning and i'm really getting into this all of this stuff with uh guests and with other
people i talk to um i i believe wholeheartedly that there's an opportunity to move forward
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as as a group and come together but then i just had isek harvey on the show and he's an influence
or over in grape riddin and he said to me no it's not happening because they're split what he's
finding is there's a split they're not freaking coming together just get over it folks and work
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on things together and stop tapping on the door let's go pound on the door and make some changes
happen but here we go with people's egos well and i think the lgbtq plus community does a really
good job of having together but they have their own fractions within i'm sure you know this group
has this issue this group has that issue and so it's very similar but i do think they do a better
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job of collectively coming together than the disability community does yeah well what you mentioned
about the five-year window you know maybe something can happen i'm learning i think maybe that it's
a tapping on the door maybe in five years it'll be knocking on the door but yeah anyway i want to
shift gears hey you recently posted about attending your nieces high school graduation just tell us
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and and there was something they used the jumbo tron in this uh facility what was missing captions
the first thing that i noticed when i i when i walked in and um i saw the jumbo tron on either
side and um there's a lack of caption it's one of the most basic um accessibility features that
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that any organization should be providing and it was shocking not to see it especially when you
think you know almost 15 percent of the population has some type of hearing loss and you have a venue
with lots of grandparents and other people aging into hearing loss um not to have it there so
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um there were you know some other inaccessibility i'm like that family member that were like oh
megs always got her eye on accessibility right so i try to tone it down a little but it was it was
disappointing to see um especially it's such a great time to be educating our kids while there is
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school about access and inclusion and it would have been such a simple but powerful um way to
communicate the importance of accessibility yeah i substitute teach and since i've been doing
this someone pointed it out it was a a teacher's aid for a child that had a hearing impairment and
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one day i was subbing i think it was in a social studies class and they're planning a video which
commonly happens when i'm there yuck right um and there were no captions and she asked hey
you know are there captions in this video and i had played it before like period one and this
is period two and there weren't any so ever since then if i'm expected to play a video or some type
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i look and see if we can get captions up because i do know there are a few kids that in the high
schools where i mainly am that they have a teacher's aid a person that's signing for them
yeah so that's helpful but the kids need to be able to do things on their own and have some form
of independence because it'll help their growth and that's why they're supposed to be going to
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school folks absolutely how many times do you have a movie on at home and you have the captions on
maybe somebody has a heavy accent or you know the the sound isn't loud enough and you're not
catching every word and how helpful it is so um you know it's just good common sense you know
there were a couple of others no signage about accessible entrances and it was this massive 90
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acre campus you know my 90 year old father was at this event you know um and so would have been
helpful to other um you know he's still proud that he's able to walk around right and he's not using
a walker and he's still pretty fit but walking a 98 acre campus is a lot for him so it would have
(24:36):
been helpful to you know over their little golf carts or something to help people with you know
mobility because it was it was painful watching people try to navigate their walkers on stadium
style seating to get to um you know the the appropriate place for them to sit so there was initially I
(24:58):
had said there was not wheelchair accessible seating um but then someone informed me that yes there was
but you couldn't see it there was no signage for it so if people needed it apparently you had to
register for it in advance so if you got there and thought oh maybe I'd be better served there once
you saw how the seating was you didn't really have the option to choose that then you were stuck with
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your walker going up the stadium space wow yeah it goes back to what we're talking about with the
gun lot common sense okay yeah let's hear gears again all right let's let's get in this other lane
oh let's talk about global disability inclusion gdi and i'll open a website and i pop that i see
(25:45):
it's clean it's organized it's simple to get around um it looks because I I was doing some
cruising around through your website i think i wouldn't say a complete overhaul but we just
had a little refresh of the site earlier this year so um you know we like to we like to keep it fresh
and interesting but easy to navigate so yeah so we have our June 1st will be our 10 year anniversary
(26:11):
so we're pretty excited about that um and we've got a team of about 10 consultants that we work with
regularly around the us and then we're part of two global consultant networks that we reach out to
when we have work outside of the us um i can't be everywhere so um perfect example we just recently
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had a project in the Philippines and it's that group that i reached out say hey i need somebody
on the ground in vanilla and you know i find people for projects outside of the us for that so
we do a lot of assessments we help companies because the majority of companies come to us saying
we know we need to do this but we're not sure where to go so we start with that assessment of
(27:00):
looking at policies programs procedures how are you talking about people with disabilities what
are you doing currently and then giving them our recommendation our findings and our recommendations
on how to move forward and where you should go next um with that we do strategic planning with
companies and helping um not only educate them but understand where do you want to be in five
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years in this space who do you want to be in this space and what's your vision um and we have
sessions to help them think about that because a lot of times they don't know um and then you know
we help with developing their implementation plan sometimes we are part of that um for example i'm
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in my third year working with michaels uh the craft store um we started with a strategic planning
process uh then we piloted in 25 stores and eight distribution centers last year we expanded to
150 stores this year we're going to do 150 more until we get to all 1400 stores um so it it runs
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the gamut and then of course the amplify survey um helps companies understand um what your employees
think what's what's the experience like being a person with a disability working at your company
and that drives a lot of change for organizations too and um hearing directly from what is likely
(28:35):
15 to 20 percent of your employee population um so it gives them a lot of power around that too
yeah so on your home page you have an announcement that you were named one of the most innovative
companies of 2023 yep tell us about that how did you guys what'd you do to get on that list well
(28:57):
it's uh the list is from fast company um and um it's an application process just like most of
those lists are and um you know lots of massive companies ai was the big winner right in this
space um so we applied and because we are a small company we applied in a small but mighty category
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um and you know helping shift i liked earlier when you're talking about your disruptor we'd
like to think of ourselves that way too and shifting the way a community is being served and
companies are looking at employees with disabilities and that's what we want for the innovation in
our survey got a question for you you got to that and you obviously you're seeing success and growth
(29:46):
everything but how is it that a bank teller that was learning sign language got to the point of
running a company called global disability inclusion huh yeah yeah funny that's pretty wild lady how
did you do that you know it's it's one of those things i'm in my fifties right so i can look back
(30:09):
now and those parts that seemed random you see them all connecting along the way um of how you
came into your journey and um i live in st augustine florida and the state school for the defen blind
is here so um when i was growing up i spent my summers here and would see people signing and
(30:32):
uh defen blind people in the community and then when i got older and out into the world saw hey
not most communities are not like that i'm not seeing people with disabilities and of course
because i would see people signing at you know at church or you know in the community i was fascinated
by it so i started taking sign language classes when i lived in richmond virginia working for a bank
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and started having a following of def customers come to my teller window and they were driving 20
30 miles when there was a branch a half a mile from their home because there was someone that
could talk to them okay and um you know that actually was my first entrepreneurial project because like
every great 20 something um i did a research study about the disability community and of course
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on the second largest population of people who are deaf or hard of hearing uh was in the d.c richmond
area which was our footprint so i was like if we get x percent of this household population all
increase our revenues by y and um i think we should start providing services to this community and
i sent that letter to the ceo and he said uh richard tilleman he's still around today i haven't seen
(31:50):
him in decades but um he called me up and said i'd like you to come to my office and i'd like to
learn more about this and this idea and then he said okay let's move you to retail strategic
marketing and see if we can make this happen so you know what we laugh about that about or you
know people oh the the millennials or the gen z's are doing this what we were doing it too just
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nobody was talking about it so from there um buzallin came knocking and said hey we want to do some
disability inclusion work um and i was there i was there for ten years um worked in a couple of
different teams um led the employee resource group um and then from there obviously when
(32:39):
when you're consulting at a big firm like that you're not always focused on your passion work
you're doing that crummy project with the irs that like makes you want to you know peel paint off
the walls more fun uh so i really wanted to um you know get back into into my passion so i left
and i worked for a nonprofit for a couple years actually helping them create their disability
(33:05):
consulting practice and just have a lot of constraints in the nonprofit space that um didn't
match with my vision of where i thought we could go with this so um i left and ten years ago started
gdi um and at the time everyone was telling me you're crazy to say you're global um and i had
(33:26):
done global work at buzallin so it didn't really scare me and i was like but that's where we're
going next and now everyone's global right okay so those naysay early on naysayers are all now
global too so um yeah we're it's just each step led to the next and and that's where we are now
it's just so interesting you know when i went through and i've done research i always do that
(33:51):
on guests and i really do a lot of digging but i find a lot of information personally you it's
heading up a company what's on your website and i'm i'm right now i am on the research page and
there is a it says featured report the state of disability employee engagement go ahead talk
about that please yeah i i mentioned it a little bit earlier in the intro of how we got to amplify
(34:14):
um and that's that ten years study that we did um with Mercer and you know we just have some
hot new data um that i just got on friday so it's it's not ready to be published yet but we're
gonna have like part two of the state of disability employee engagement um coming out soon but what
(34:35):
we're seeing um you know the preliminary data is showing some dramatic decreases in differences so
for instance we had um i've got it in front of me you know we had things like i am appropriately
involved in decision-making about my work when we reported that in 2021 there was an 11
(35:03):
inch point difference between employees with disabilities and employees without disabilities
meaning employees with disabilities were less satisfied okay that gap has closed some and it's
now only a five percentage point difference very good so we're seeing buckets of progress as more
and more companies get involved in disability inclusion and start focusing on things like digital
(35:28):
accessibility the physical accessibility of their buildings taking things like the amplify survey
so they know where their pain points are their companies their global companies still out there
that do not have accommodation policies so there are some basic misses that that organization still
learn addressing but as we see them address it we're seeing some of these gaps closed now it is
(35:53):
important to say five percentage point difference is still a call to action yes yes it is doesn't mean
you know under five percent you're doing okay but um you know and then we had things that did not
change at all i feel my career goals can be met at my company um in 2021 it was a seven percentage
(36:14):
point difference and its remains unchanged it's still seven percent point difference so you know
i haven't gone through all of the data but we have um four or five key questions where the gap is
closing that signifies greater satisfaction with their workplace a greater sense of participation
(36:37):
and inclusion so it's nice to see because in that first ten years of looking at data and this last
round is from uh 2018 to 2022 that that gap is getting smaller in some areas so it's definitely
a positive sign it doesn't mean we're out of the woods yet there's still plenty to do and um there
(37:03):
there were not there was not an answer where people with disabilities rated it higher but we did have
a few questions where the percentage point was exactly the same so again slight improvements
so we're making progress so to me i'm using the same analogy i did earlier i think the disability
(37:27):
community is still just tapping on the door it's got to be a harder knock okay let's go to your
blog page and on there on the blog page it has four myths employers have about people with
disabilities now i'll throw them to you just summarize them for me okay yeah what kind of
jobs can people with disabilities do whoa what a broad question yeah this is the question that
(37:49):
i will retire when people stop asking come on um you know this i i get it i understand um but
people have to stop with the assumptions and misconceptions that people with disabilities
can't do every job just like anybody else insert diversity group into that question and you'll
(38:12):
realize how ridiculous that sounds right yes not every person can do every job but there are people
with disabilities that can do whatever your job is so the answer is people with disabilities
they're doctors they're lawyers they're warehouse workers they're waitresses they're chefs you know
whatever job you can think of there's a person with a disability doing it so don't limit in
(38:37):
uh thinking oh people with disabilities can only do janitorial work um or can only work in cafeterias
that's limited thinking and decades ago those were the only jobs people would hire individuals
with disabilities for so i think that's why that kind of set that mindset for people what kinds of
(39:02):
jobs yeah just mind blowing all right number two we tried a disability hiring initiative before
but it didn't work out okay so again let's insert any other diverse let's just say women
we hired a woman before and it didn't work out would you quit hiring women women i mean chances are
(39:26):
you've had women that have been great and you've had women that have not been so great so you don't
stop uh initiative because it didn't work um the better questions to ask are things like
did you have the right partners were you working with the right organization for jobs we've gone
in and helped companies assess some of their partners and find they've been sending their
(39:50):
they're like we haven't gotten a single candidate for and they're sending managerial positions over
to an organization that works with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities and
you're like they do not have the population for the roles that you were talking about so let's talk
about do you have the right partners do you have the right sourcing entities um are you putting
(40:14):
the right jobs out there for various groups that you're targeting wow well those the first two
questions seem pretty simple these are do's ease these are okay why are we still asking these and
it's one it the first one is we don't have any employees with disabilities seriously yes that
(40:37):
comes up all the time all the time like why should we do that why do we have we don't have
employees with disabilities um and this is just i think um naive the majority of disabilities are
non-apparent um you know i have epilepsy you wouldn't know that by looking at me um so i use
(40:59):
myself as an example all the time talking to employers of saying you know um you let you're
hiring people with disabilities already you just don't know it they're not telling you about it
they're not telling you who they are and that they have MS or learning disabilities or
whatever pick a disability that the society still creates a crutch and that you're afraid to bring
(41:24):
it up i mean i if i actually were to have an interview i'm interested in teaching still for
crying out but most of the people that i grew up with have all retired hell with that i still
want to teach i don't even get any opportunities to interview and i have a feeling has something to
do with the disability even though they're crazy folks because i can still teach i don't tell well
(41:46):
i won't go there and to my own horn last one here this this is really a doozy employees with
disabilities will increase our health care costs yeah this comes up all the time especially when
you're talking to HR and benefits people you know um they're concerned about that and you know the
short answer is no it doesn't you know health care costs are are um creative for an organization
(42:11):
based on you know you're going to have people that use it a lot and you're going to have people
that never use it and so um it also is an assumption that people with disabilities are going to go
to the doctor more often than anybody else so i'll use myself as an example i go to my doctor
annually or if i have a cold or something else i don't go to the doctor any more frequently
(42:36):
because of my disability so but then you'll have people with disabilities that do need to go more
often maybe it's a chronic health condition um you know that they're trying to manage so it's
it's a spectrum just like every population yeah so just again maybe i should term the
i should title this show common sense yeah with a few different exclamation marks okay all right
(43:02):
so i have a question for you is if i come to you i have a company that's been accused of disability
discrimination and i reach out to you to investigate the issue what's your process summarize it for
first yeah um you know this is it happens but it's not the bulk of our work you know it seems to
ebb and flow i want to say last year we had three or four instances where this came up where
(43:26):
um there was a disability discrimination suit and the company needed to bring in a third party
vendor to assess what was happening um so um when that's the the case uh and it's the same even
if we're not doing a disability discrimination it's the same process um we meet with the teams
(43:48):
what's going on tell us what's happening um what are the issues um and then um we want to know about
the company's infrastructure how are you supporting people with disabilities so we look at
what are your hiring practices what are your onboarding practices what does it look like
when an employee needs an accommodation what's that process look look like how quickly can it happen
(44:15):
um what happens if a process is denied and who's in charge of denying that process so we look at
all of those um policies programs procedures and and determine where they are um and then if
it's a particular sometimes there's a suit oh we're discriminating against uh employees who are
(44:36):
blind you know what are the supports and resources they have for a particular population and and
we'll assess that and then of course provide recommendations on what you know if there are gaps
or opportunities what they should be doing next whether it's increasing digital footprint whether
it's um increasing color contrast between the doorways and the walls you know things like that that
(45:01):
come up uh so people can navigate um more effectively around the campus um so really we we assess where
they are and then help them get to the next level of where they should be again common sense common
sense so let's get and say the heck with common sense and do something a little different
the sound of the VW means that it's time to shift gears with the road trip roundup
(45:25):
Meg you have five questions I have for you that relate to you and your experiences with road trips
okay here we go all right I just came off one so oh cool cool when road tripping do you tend to do
fast foods or local diners oh it depends it's a mix of both but I prefer local diners um it just
(45:48):
depends on where we are if you're you know I just went to Atlanta so we were in south Georgia we didn't
have a lot of kind of right off the road diner so we did some fast food but I would prefer a local
diner okay all right well in Georgia you're gonna be fine in Chick-fil-A all over the place
what's a dream car for road trip now that could be something you grew up with that your parents had
(46:12):
something you have now or something you would maybe rent to go on a road trip
well so I got to go to the VW bus we had one when I was a kid my parents had one the old
like where the ceiling would pop up yeah they're gonna cut in it and have the bed up front and
one over the front seat and so yeah so we grew up road tripping in that when I was a kid that's
(46:35):
really wild you're the first guest to bring that up I can envision the whole thing wow all right
yeah I think we don't I wish they had kept it it would have been fun to still have oh god they're
worth a ton now oh wow I watched some car shows where they refurbished those and they sell them for
pretty penny all right they're nice last cassette or CD that played while you were on a road trip
(46:59):
that's cassette or CD howly I think I don't think I had one recently last cassette or okay one that
sticks out this was early on and it was Kelly Clarkson I have to say okay I can remember doing
a road trip by myself and playing it over and over and over again in my car there are those there
(47:24):
are those god darn I think it must have been after a bad breakup or something so it was super
appropriate sorry we're gonna steer away from that one that go there coke or Pepsi
I grew up in Atlanta it's Coke gotta be coke because that's that's their own base yeah okay all right
now here's the one I always love and you already maybe your mind's already going there what's your
(47:47):
favorite road trip memory oh gosh my favorite road trip memory we had a ton so it's hard to narrow
it down you know just being in the the VW bus with my brothers and sisters and you know traveling
(48:08):
from place to place and we had no idea and going to campgrounds and getting set up with the family
and just very cool being in a new spot you know so I don't think it's any particular place it's more
the journey yeah you know we're playing in the games there cards or the license plate game or
you know all those things you did as a kid oh my god license plate game oh I haven't thought about
(48:31):
that for a long time I haven't thought about that since my kids were really small and we were road
tripping oh my gosh my husband I still do it really yeah oh wow we got stuck on 75 for a couple
hours so we're like all right let's play the lessons plate game sometimes we got to go back
to those simplistic times the old leaf a kitty well we're wrapping it up but I want you and I to
(48:53):
stay on for a couple minutes Meg and I will sign off by saying challenge to likes everybody and
keep listening to life's a road trip thanks for listening check out previous episodes with new
ones dropping each Tuesday if you don't see a synopsis of this show where you're listening
visit our website at lifestroadtrip.podbean.com for more information on this week's guest
(49:20):
this is your host Scott Martin reminding you that life's a road trip
(49:50):
you
Being disabled or having a chronic illness can feel like you're moving forward in reverse.
(00:21):
I'm your host Scott Martin.
Join me and my new friends in this underrepresented community as we talk about disrupting the
status quo and creating change within the world and within ourselves.
A life's a road trip.
Hop in.
Let's turn on some tunes and go.
(00:56):
With me in the passenger seat and managing the radio for this road trip is Meg O'Connell.
The fact that Meg is an internationally recognized disability employment and inclusion expert
with over 25 years of experience in human capital management, talent acquisition, performance
management, disability inclusion, employee engagement, marketing and customer service,
(01:18):
or that she and her team have worked with some of the most, world's most recognized
brands and provide strategic program design, development and implementation of disability
employment and inclusion programs for global 500 companies, US federal contractors, colleges
and universities, nonprofits and foundations make her an interesting guess.
But for me, I was drawn to Meg being on the show after reading a tag line that's used
(01:42):
for her company, Global Disability Inclusion of which she is the CEO and founder and it
reads, inclusion means everyone.
Stop talking, start doing.
That was it for me and I wanted to get on horn to Meg and now we have her.
Hi Meg.
Hey Scott, how are you?
Good to be here.
Yeah, hey, I'm doing fine and I'm looking forward to digging into some stuff with you
because what I'm trying to do with this show is to disrupt things a little bit and to let
(02:08):
people know about the disabled community and stir things up with how the disabled community
can move forward and it's people like you that I think are disrupt or at least a supporter
for the disabled community.
So I want to open by applauding you in a recent post that pointed out that seven countries
have issued travel advisory regarding mass shootings and the lack of common sense laws
(02:32):
in the USA.
Now this is not a political show but we do support common sense.
So I just wanted to make that point because I have a platform to be able to do something
like that.
Thank you very much because it needs to be said more common sense folks.
Come on, let's get into it.
It's so true.
It's so true and I was shocked to see that especially after the recent mass shootings
(02:57):
in Texas at the mall and that countries are now saying it's tourism in America is not
safe because there's no telling what may happen because there are not common sense
gun laws.
You know when it comes down to money that's what turns things.
Yeah absolutely and I know we're going to talk about some of the other things related
(03:22):
to money and disability and all of that but we really need to get to a place that the
almighty dollar does not drive every decision that we make and unfortunately we're not there
there as a country and to have you know the Texas not only the Texas governor but other
(03:43):
people say oh it's not a gun issue it's a mental health issue like that's not their
responsibility or they don't have a role to play in that especially in Texas's example
they are the worst state in the country for mental health resources and supports so let's
(04:05):
get to it governor get busy you got a lot of work to do.
I'd say not a gun issue started dressing the mental health issues.
Let's do it.
So speaking about mental health I've got taken from one of your recent posts on LinkedIn
says our privacy and mental health apps is being sold for profit along with questions
we text and information about health conditions you're referring to an article which Politico
(04:29):
put out that's discovered they describe as the creepy side of online therapy apps many
use AI to respond to people reaching out so this means that a person's most difficult
times AI is responding not a real person and and they also that you mentioned in there
it appears that the industry wide issue on online therapy platforms does not have to
(04:52):
comply with HIPAA regulations that is scary as hell.
That's mind boggling it this is one of those articles that really got me to the core especially
with all of the focus that we've had over the last several years on mental health and
as with everything on the internet there's good and there's bad right and we saw such
(05:14):
a marked surge in telehealth and mental health resources during the pandemic because everybody
was really struggling this was something completely new for us we were working from home children
were home we were confined to our spaces people were really struggling with how to navigate
that and how to make it work and you know to find out places like better health and crisis
(05:40):
text text hotline that's been around for 10 years is selling our data our email addresses
IP addresses answers to health questions that you have used on Facebook messenger or WhatsApp
(06:01):
for profit the idea is okay now we know what this person is interested interested in where
they're at how can we sell them more products and resources and you know so these third
parties now understand some of your most vulnerable issues or concerns in your life and they're
(06:23):
trying to profit off of it and I find that completely unconscionable you know the article
did talk about the lack of regulations and the fact that you know HIPAA does not apply
to online which is a huge mess but where's the ethics of the people that are running these
companies to say this is an instance where people over profits matters and actually protecting
(06:50):
people's privacy will make us more profitable because we will become the trusted leader in
this space not following the status quo of what's allowed but doing what is actually
better better for the people we're serving better for the country so it's a huge problem
(07:13):
and I think a lot of people have done that well what can I do about it everything's tracked
everywhere my phone's tracking me it's either I do this telehealth thing that may not be
completely private or I'm at risk my family's at risk of you know further mental health
(07:36):
crisis and I don't think it should be a trade-off no it shouldn't it seems like AI now is the
wild wild west just this morning I took a little bit of time for myself I like playing
fantasy baseball and I opened up one of my main sources for information in the morning
and here were dual ads one on the right and one on the left from Microsoft promoting AI
(08:02):
and I didn't want to dig into what more there is to it but yeah this thing is wide open
and it seems like there are two things that are going to be be able to stop it or change
it I would think it would be politicians but everybody's already talking about 2024 presidential
election and who's doing what and point fingers everybody so that's not going to happen then
(08:24):
it comes down to money and that's what I think it's going to come down to because here let's
one of your other posts you're right I say it all the time disability inclusion is not
just a diversity issue is big business are you tapping into the 13 trillion that's with
the tea trillion dollar market I would have supposed that that opens doors when you mentioned
(08:47):
that to people about working with you you know it does but not as many as you think
oh god I know right yeah money is a big driver so let's talk about the money but corporations
are notoriously fearful of getting something wrong and especially in the disability space
(09:09):
right they don't want to have a misstep because that can be in their view harder to come back
from than not doing anything at all if we dip or toe in this and we don't do it right
then there's going to be bigger backlash if we just don't do a lot or do some trainings
or have some things like that so that's the biggest struggle is getting over that because
(09:33):
even though the dollar signs are really attractive companies are really fearful of getting it
wrong and so that's where we try to help them along in their journey and you know we tell
companies all the time hey you can pilot a program for five years if you call anything
a pilot it gives you room for error for making mistakes yes because you know you probably
(09:58):
pilot every project you've implemented in your company at some point or for some phase
so you could test things out and see what works and see what doesn't it's no different
than disability inclusion you have to start somewhere yeah it just the older I get the
more I'm learning about I guess I I've always known that money drives the world which is
(10:24):
ridiculous but it's people like you and your company and I'm finding more that I have guests
on the show that are trying to dig underneath the money and try to show again where you're
going to use the term common sense as we did about guns but I think the carrot that you're
showing in front of these people is 13 trillion dollars folks and I think it's 1.8 billion
(10:46):
people worldwide have disabilities yeah it's just not it's still not being understood it really is it
and you know I think it was last month's blog post where we were talking about this in particular
and use the example of the adaptive fashion industry which 10 years ago was virtually
(11:08):
non-existent you got kind of your medical grade you know shirts that had you know the
snaps on it or magnets but it wouldn't be anything you would be caught dead in walking
around outside they were just not attractive you know but you know Mindy Shire who is the
founder of Runway of Dreams had a son with physical disabilities I believe he also uses a wheelchair
(11:36):
and she was also a fashion designer so she was going and buying you know polos and ronflarens
and Tommy Hilfiger and you know and then changing the fasteners so he could you know go to the
bathroom by himself at school get himself dressed in the morning and look like every other kid
(11:59):
and not look different and that really started she started knocking on doors and started with
Tommy Hilfiger and now these massive brands are getting into it she's just having her 10-year
anniversary and the adaptable fashion industry is a 400 billion dollar industry so we you know we
(12:24):
say it all the time if you're not sure how your company can get involved in this talk to your
people with disabilities whatever your products or services are I guarantee you your employees
with disabilities see a gap that you're not filling and that could be your 400 billion
dollar industry you're not tapping into just like the adaptive clothing industry oh wow there was a
(12:46):
lady that was on Shark Tank not all that long ago and she was picked up on Shark Tank so I
mean invested in her I contacted her well I couldn't get to her but somebody about her being on the
show but I guess I'm I'm too small a fish or maybe she just doesn't do it but I was interested in
(13:07):
having her on to talk about this so maybe I'll reach out to the person you were just talking about
so we'll see yeah I know Mindy we just work together so I'm happy to make a connection I'll bring that
up to you cool I would love that I would really love that all right so let's talk about the amplify
survey and oh it's my passion go for it go for it tell tell us about it and and first of all
(13:28):
the is that related to the Mercer survey that you guys are involved in yes okay all right I'll
tell kind of the history of how we got there so I have been partnering with Mercer for more than
a decade at this point with a gentleman there Pete Rittigliano who is I refer to him as my data geek
(13:50):
he has a daughter a step daughter with autism he knew about my work we connected I had a previous
employer that I had you know probably 15 years ago at this point and the company at the time wasn't
looking at the disability data from our employee engagement surveys I was the head of the disability
(14:13):
employee resource group at this company and so that data was important to me even though we did
capture it but I was told well less than 1% of the population is isn't even saying they have a
disability so it's not statistically significant so I got together with Pete and we said okay well
we can look at this data what other data does Mercer have so we started tapping into their
(14:36):
global database and year over year looking at what employee engagement looked like comparing
people with disabilities and people without disabilities and so in 2021 we published that 10
year study of what employees with disabilities what their workplace experiences were like and not
(14:59):
in one single category when you think about the various category leadership opportunities for
advancement do I have the resources to do my job what's the culture like all of those categories
not a single one that employs with disabilities rate their experience better than non-disabled
colleagues and Pete who's the statistician he said statistically that's fascinating because
(15:24):
you think at least one category and not even one question was it rated better so each category has
five to eight questions in it so when we saw that we began looking at what our company is really
interested in and we saw 90% of companies are looking at gender differences 75 race and ethnicity
(15:51):
but only 4% of companies are looking at disability as a diversity segment so that's problem number
one right you've got the world's largest diversity segment getting the least amount of attention
from corporations so that led to the creation of amplify which we wanted to create
and it's the first disability climate culture survey and we're we've just won our third award
(16:18):
for the survey we just made fast companies most innovative company for 2023 list so we're excited
about that but it asks questions about disability and disability in the workplace so most engagement
surveys don't ask disability related questions so this asks things around accommodations around
(16:41):
self-ID around do people with disabilities have the opportunity for advancement do they feel
they can advance in the same way they're non-disabled colleagues but the beauty of the survey is that
it also asks questions of those without disability so it's really a pulse survey
okay it's about 40 questions the first 20 are the same regardless of who you are then in the middle
(17:07):
of the survey we ask you are you a person with a disability and we give definitions of disability
of course all questions are optional so no one's required to or are if you say no are you a colleague
co-worker parent of someone with a disability and that's where the questions then become different
if you say yes you continue to get disability specific questions if you say no you get questions
(17:33):
like i see examples of my leadership talking about disability in the same way they do diversity
i see my colleagues with disabilities treated with dignity and respect i see my colleagues with
disabilities advancing at the same rate as other colleagues so you're getting at both the lived
(17:55):
experience and the perception that cultural aspect of what's happening within your organization
so we're getting some really interesting data and my favorite part about it is it really sets
the stage for a company to create their next two to five-year strategy around disability inclusion
(18:19):
you find out is your accommodations process working you find out do you have cultural issues or you
know you don't have an inclusive climate this one company we just did the survey with um you know
has a global presence and they found out 30 of the people that took the survey have mental health
issues so this was a huge call to action for them so they're looking at their employee assistance
(18:46):
program what do we need to be providing that's different what kind of training do we need to do
for managers what resources do we need to have for employees to get the support that they need
so it really gives actionable insights for companies to say all right there's always going to be
low hanging fruit right there are gonna be things around you know accessibility benefits things like
(19:11):
that but then there are the longer-term cultural components that will take longer to five years
to change a culture or shift a mindset in leadership well i'm really excited about the survey the
next run of the survey if anybody wants to take it is july 10th through the 28th so during
(19:32):
disability pride month and in the anniversary the ADA okay that's cool i was gonna say and i've
been touting two things one is that i think that the disability community should just take it to
blueprint that lgbtq plus folks did and just follow that and the other thing is that to me i've
(19:54):
been touting that i think the disability community has been too quiet but i think now i'm changing
my view but it's only just a tap on the door um you know when i when i look at some of this and
i'm learning and i'm really getting into this all of this stuff with uh guests and with other
people i talk to um i i believe wholeheartedly that there's an opportunity to move forward
(20:21):
as as a group and come together but then i just had isek harvey on the show and he's an influence
or over in grape riddin and he said to me no it's not happening because they're split what he's
finding is there's a split they're not freaking coming together just get over it folks and work
(20:43):
on things together and stop tapping on the door let's go pound on the door and make some changes
happen but here we go with people's egos well and i think the lgbtq plus community does a really
good job of having together but they have their own fractions within i'm sure you know this group
has this issue this group has that issue and so it's very similar but i do think they do a better
(21:06):
job of collectively coming together than the disability community does yeah well what you mentioned
about the five-year window you know maybe something can happen i'm learning i think maybe that it's
a tapping on the door maybe in five years it'll be knocking on the door but yeah anyway i want to
shift gears hey you recently posted about attending your nieces high school graduation just tell us
(21:28):
and and there was something they used the jumbo tron in this uh facility what was missing captions
the first thing that i noticed when i i when i walked in and um i saw the jumbo tron on either
side and um there's a lack of caption it's one of the most basic um accessibility features that
(21:55):
that any organization should be providing and it was shocking not to see it especially when you
think you know almost 15 percent of the population has some type of hearing loss and you have a venue
with lots of grandparents and other people aging into hearing loss um not to have it there so
(22:16):
um there were you know some other inaccessibility i'm like that family member that were like oh
megs always got her eye on accessibility right so i try to tone it down a little but it was it was
disappointing to see um especially it's such a great time to be educating our kids while there is
(22:37):
school about access and inclusion and it would have been such a simple but powerful um way to
communicate the importance of accessibility yeah i substitute teach and since i've been doing
this someone pointed it out it was a a teacher's aid for a child that had a hearing impairment and
(23:03):
one day i was subbing i think it was in a social studies class and they're planning a video which
commonly happens when i'm there yuck right um and there were no captions and she asked hey
you know are there captions in this video and i had played it before like period one and this
is period two and there weren't any so ever since then if i'm expected to play a video or some type
(23:25):
i look and see if we can get captions up because i do know there are a few kids that in the high
schools where i mainly am that they have a teacher's aid a person that's signing for them
yeah so that's helpful but the kids need to be able to do things on their own and have some form
of independence because it'll help their growth and that's why they're supposed to be going to
(23:48):
school folks absolutely how many times do you have a movie on at home and you have the captions on
maybe somebody has a heavy accent or you know the the sound isn't loud enough and you're not
catching every word and how helpful it is so um you know it's just good common sense you know
there were a couple of others no signage about accessible entrances and it was this massive 90
(24:13):
acre campus you know my 90 year old father was at this event you know um and so would have been
helpful to other um you know he's still proud that he's able to walk around right and he's not using
a walker and he's still pretty fit but walking a 98 acre campus is a lot for him so it would have
(24:36):
been helpful to you know over their little golf carts or something to help people with you know
mobility because it was it was painful watching people try to navigate their walkers on stadium
style seating to get to um you know the the appropriate place for them to sit so there was initially I
(24:58):
had said there was not wheelchair accessible seating um but then someone informed me that yes there was
but you couldn't see it there was no signage for it so if people needed it apparently you had to
register for it in advance so if you got there and thought oh maybe I'd be better served there once
you saw how the seating was you didn't really have the option to choose that then you were stuck with
(25:24):
your walker going up the stadium space wow yeah it goes back to what we're talking about with the
gun lot common sense okay yeah let's hear gears again all right let's let's get in this other lane
oh let's talk about global disability inclusion gdi and i'll open a website and i pop that i see
(25:45):
it's clean it's organized it's simple to get around um it looks because I I was doing some
cruising around through your website i think i wouldn't say a complete overhaul but we just
had a little refresh of the site earlier this year so um you know we like to we like to keep it fresh
and interesting but easy to navigate so yeah so we have our June 1st will be our 10 year anniversary
(26:11):
so we're pretty excited about that um and we've got a team of about 10 consultants that we work with
regularly around the us and then we're part of two global consultant networks that we reach out to
when we have work outside of the us um i can't be everywhere so um perfect example we just recently
(26:34):
had a project in the Philippines and it's that group that i reached out say hey i need somebody
on the ground in vanilla and you know i find people for projects outside of the us for that so
we do a lot of assessments we help companies because the majority of companies come to us saying
we know we need to do this but we're not sure where to go so we start with that assessment of
(27:00):
looking at policies programs procedures how are you talking about people with disabilities what
are you doing currently and then giving them our recommendation our findings and our recommendations
on how to move forward and where you should go next um with that we do strategic planning with
companies and helping um not only educate them but understand where do you want to be in five
(27:25):
years in this space who do you want to be in this space and what's your vision um and we have
sessions to help them think about that because a lot of times they don't know um and then you know
we help with developing their implementation plan sometimes we are part of that um for example i'm
(27:47):
in my third year working with michaels uh the craft store um we started with a strategic planning
process uh then we piloted in 25 stores and eight distribution centers last year we expanded to
150 stores this year we're going to do 150 more until we get to all 1400 stores um so it it runs
(28:12):
the gamut and then of course the amplify survey um helps companies understand um what your employees
think what's what's the experience like being a person with a disability working at your company
and that drives a lot of change for organizations too and um hearing directly from what is likely
(28:35):
15 to 20 percent of your employee population um so it gives them a lot of power around that too
yeah so on your home page you have an announcement that you were named one of the most innovative
companies of 2023 yep tell us about that how did you guys what'd you do to get on that list well
(28:57):
it's uh the list is from fast company um and um it's an application process just like most of
those lists are and um you know lots of massive companies ai was the big winner right in this
space um so we applied and because we are a small company we applied in a small but mighty category
(29:21):
um and you know helping shift i liked earlier when you're talking about your disruptor we'd
like to think of ourselves that way too and shifting the way a community is being served and
companies are looking at employees with disabilities and that's what we want for the innovation in
our survey got a question for you you got to that and you obviously you're seeing success and growth
(29:46):
everything but how is it that a bank teller that was learning sign language got to the point of
running a company called global disability inclusion huh yeah yeah funny that's pretty wild lady how
did you do that you know it's it's one of those things i'm in my fifties right so i can look back
(30:09):
now and those parts that seemed random you see them all connecting along the way um of how you
came into your journey and um i live in st augustine florida and the state school for the defen blind
is here so um when i was growing up i spent my summers here and would see people signing and
(30:32):
uh defen blind people in the community and then when i got older and out into the world saw hey
not most communities are not like that i'm not seeing people with disabilities and of course
because i would see people signing at you know at church or you know in the community i was fascinated
by it so i started taking sign language classes when i lived in richmond virginia working for a bank
(30:59):
and started having a following of def customers come to my teller window and they were driving 20
30 miles when there was a branch a half a mile from their home because there was someone that
could talk to them okay and um you know that actually was my first entrepreneurial project because like
every great 20 something um i did a research study about the disability community and of course
(31:25):
on the second largest population of people who are deaf or hard of hearing uh was in the d.c richmond
area which was our footprint so i was like if we get x percent of this household population all
increase our revenues by y and um i think we should start providing services to this community and
i sent that letter to the ceo and he said uh richard tilleman he's still around today i haven't seen
(31:50):
him in decades but um he called me up and said i'd like you to come to my office and i'd like to
learn more about this and this idea and then he said okay let's move you to retail strategic
marketing and see if we can make this happen so you know what we laugh about that about or you
know people oh the the millennials or the gen z's are doing this what we were doing it too just
(32:14):
nobody was talking about it so from there um buzallin came knocking and said hey we want to do some
disability inclusion work um and i was there i was there for ten years um worked in a couple of
different teams um led the employee resource group um and then from there obviously when
(32:39):
when you're consulting at a big firm like that you're not always focused on your passion work
you're doing that crummy project with the irs that like makes you want to you know peel paint off
the walls more fun uh so i really wanted to um you know get back into into my passion so i left
and i worked for a nonprofit for a couple years actually helping them create their disability
(33:05):
consulting practice and just have a lot of constraints in the nonprofit space that um didn't
match with my vision of where i thought we could go with this so um i left and ten years ago started
gdi um and at the time everyone was telling me you're crazy to say you're global um and i had
(33:26):
done global work at buzallin so it didn't really scare me and i was like but that's where we're
going next and now everyone's global right okay so those naysay early on naysayers are all now
global too so um yeah we're it's just each step led to the next and and that's where we are now
it's just so interesting you know when i went through and i've done research i always do that
(33:51):
on guests and i really do a lot of digging but i find a lot of information personally you it's
heading up a company what's on your website and i'm i'm right now i am on the research page and
there is a it says featured report the state of disability employee engagement go ahead talk
about that please yeah i i mentioned it a little bit earlier in the intro of how we got to amplify
(34:14):
um and that's that ten years study that we did um with Mercer and you know we just have some
hot new data um that i just got on friday so it's it's not ready to be published yet but we're
gonna have like part two of the state of disability employee engagement um coming out soon but what
(34:35):
we're seeing um you know the preliminary data is showing some dramatic decreases in differences so
for instance we had um i've got it in front of me you know we had things like i am appropriately
involved in decision-making about my work when we reported that in 2021 there was an 11
(35:03):
inch point difference between employees with disabilities and employees without disabilities
meaning employees with disabilities were less satisfied okay that gap has closed some and it's
now only a five percentage point difference very good so we're seeing buckets of progress as more
and more companies get involved in disability inclusion and start focusing on things like digital
(35:28):
accessibility the physical accessibility of their buildings taking things like the amplify survey
so they know where their pain points are their companies their global companies still out there
that do not have accommodation policies so there are some basic misses that that organization still
learn addressing but as we see them address it we're seeing some of these gaps closed now it is
(35:53):
important to say five percentage point difference is still a call to action yes yes it is doesn't mean
you know under five percent you're doing okay but um you know and then we had things that did not
change at all i feel my career goals can be met at my company um in 2021 it was a seven percentage
(36:14):
point difference and its remains unchanged it's still seven percent point difference so you know
i haven't gone through all of the data but we have um four or five key questions where the gap is
closing that signifies greater satisfaction with their workplace a greater sense of participation
(36:37):
and inclusion so it's nice to see because in that first ten years of looking at data and this last
round is from uh 2018 to 2022 that that gap is getting smaller in some areas so it's definitely
a positive sign it doesn't mean we're out of the woods yet there's still plenty to do and um there
(37:03):
there were not there was not an answer where people with disabilities rated it higher but we did have
a few questions where the percentage point was exactly the same so again slight improvements
so we're making progress so to me i'm using the same analogy i did earlier i think the disability
(37:27):
community is still just tapping on the door it's got to be a harder knock okay let's go to your
blog page and on there on the blog page it has four myths employers have about people with
disabilities now i'll throw them to you just summarize them for me okay yeah what kind of
jobs can people with disabilities do whoa what a broad question yeah this is the question that
(37:49):
i will retire when people stop asking come on um you know this i i get it i understand um but
people have to stop with the assumptions and misconceptions that people with disabilities
can't do every job just like anybody else insert diversity group into that question and you'll
(38:12):
realize how ridiculous that sounds right yes not every person can do every job but there are people
with disabilities that can do whatever your job is so the answer is people with disabilities
they're doctors they're lawyers they're warehouse workers they're waitresses they're chefs you know
whatever job you can think of there's a person with a disability doing it so don't limit in
(38:37):
uh thinking oh people with disabilities can only do janitorial work um or can only work in cafeterias
that's limited thinking and decades ago those were the only jobs people would hire individuals
with disabilities for so i think that's why that kind of set that mindset for people what kinds of
(39:02):
jobs yeah just mind blowing all right number two we tried a disability hiring initiative before
but it didn't work out okay so again let's insert any other diverse let's just say women
we hired a woman before and it didn't work out would you quit hiring women women i mean chances are
(39:26):
you've had women that have been great and you've had women that have not been so great so you don't
stop uh initiative because it didn't work um the better questions to ask are things like
did you have the right partners were you working with the right organization for jobs we've gone
in and helped companies assess some of their partners and find they've been sending their
(39:50):
they're like we haven't gotten a single candidate for and they're sending managerial positions over
to an organization that works with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities and
you're like they do not have the population for the roles that you were talking about so let's talk
about do you have the right partners do you have the right sourcing entities um are you putting
(40:14):
the right jobs out there for various groups that you're targeting wow well those the first two
questions seem pretty simple these are do's ease these are okay why are we still asking these and
it's one it the first one is we don't have any employees with disabilities seriously yes that
(40:37):
comes up all the time all the time like why should we do that why do we have we don't have
employees with disabilities um and this is just i think um naive the majority of disabilities are
non-apparent um you know i have epilepsy you wouldn't know that by looking at me um so i use
(40:59):
myself as an example all the time talking to employers of saying you know um you let you're
hiring people with disabilities already you just don't know it they're not telling you about it
they're not telling you who they are and that they have MS or learning disabilities or
whatever pick a disability that the society still creates a crutch and that you're afraid to bring
(41:24):
it up i mean i if i actually were to have an interview i'm interested in teaching still for
crying out but most of the people that i grew up with have all retired hell with that i still
want to teach i don't even get any opportunities to interview and i have a feeling has something to
do with the disability even though they're crazy folks because i can still teach i don't tell well
(41:46):
i won't go there and to my own horn last one here this this is really a doozy employees with
disabilities will increase our health care costs yeah this comes up all the time especially when
you're talking to HR and benefits people you know um they're concerned about that and you know the
short answer is no it doesn't you know health care costs are are um creative for an organization
(42:11):
based on you know you're going to have people that use it a lot and you're going to have people
that never use it and so um it also is an assumption that people with disabilities are going to go
to the doctor more often than anybody else so i'll use myself as an example i go to my doctor
annually or if i have a cold or something else i don't go to the doctor any more frequently
(42:36):
because of my disability so but then you'll have people with disabilities that do need to go more
often maybe it's a chronic health condition um you know that they're trying to manage so it's
it's a spectrum just like every population yeah so just again maybe i should term the
i should title this show common sense yeah with a few different exclamation marks okay all right
(43:02):
so i have a question for you is if i come to you i have a company that's been accused of disability
discrimination and i reach out to you to investigate the issue what's your process summarize it for
first yeah um you know this is it happens but it's not the bulk of our work you know it seems to
ebb and flow i want to say last year we had three or four instances where this came up where
(43:26):
um there was a disability discrimination suit and the company needed to bring in a third party
vendor to assess what was happening um so um when that's the the case uh and it's the same even
if we're not doing a disability discrimination it's the same process um we meet with the teams
(43:48):
what's going on tell us what's happening um what are the issues um and then um we want to know about
the company's infrastructure how are you supporting people with disabilities so we look at
what are your hiring practices what are your onboarding practices what does it look like
when an employee needs an accommodation what's that process look look like how quickly can it happen
(44:15):
um what happens if a process is denied and who's in charge of denying that process so we look at
all of those um policies programs procedures and and determine where they are um and then if
it's a particular sometimes there's a suit oh we're discriminating against uh employees who are
(44:36):
blind you know what are the supports and resources they have for a particular population and and
we'll assess that and then of course provide recommendations on what you know if there are gaps
or opportunities what they should be doing next whether it's increasing digital footprint whether
it's um increasing color contrast between the doorways and the walls you know things like that that
(45:01):
come up uh so people can navigate um more effectively around the campus um so really we we assess where
they are and then help them get to the next level of where they should be again common sense common
sense so let's get and say the heck with common sense and do something a little different
the sound of the VW means that it's time to shift gears with the road trip roundup
(45:25):
Meg you have five questions I have for you that relate to you and your experiences with road trips
okay here we go all right I just came off one so oh cool cool when road tripping do you tend to do
fast foods or local diners oh it depends it's a mix of both but I prefer local diners um it just
(45:48):
depends on where we are if you're you know I just went to Atlanta so we were in south Georgia we didn't
have a lot of kind of right off the road diner so we did some fast food but I would prefer a local
diner okay all right well in Georgia you're gonna be fine in Chick-fil-A all over the place
what's a dream car for road trip now that could be something you grew up with that your parents had
(46:12):
something you have now or something you would maybe rent to go on a road trip
well so I got to go to the VW bus we had one when I was a kid my parents had one the old
like where the ceiling would pop up yeah they're gonna cut in it and have the bed up front and
one over the front seat and so yeah so we grew up road tripping in that when I was a kid that's
(46:35):
really wild you're the first guest to bring that up I can envision the whole thing wow all right
yeah I think we don't I wish they had kept it it would have been fun to still have oh god they're
worth a ton now oh wow I watched some car shows where they refurbished those and they sell them for
pretty penny all right they're nice last cassette or CD that played while you were on a road trip
(46:59):
that's cassette or CD howly I think I don't think I had one recently last cassette or okay one that
sticks out this was early on and it was Kelly Clarkson I have to say okay I can remember doing
a road trip by myself and playing it over and over and over again in my car there are those there
(47:24):
are those god darn I think it must have been after a bad breakup or something so it was super
appropriate sorry we're gonna steer away from that one that go there coke or Pepsi
I grew up in Atlanta it's Coke gotta be coke because that's that's their own base yeah okay all right
now here's the one I always love and you already maybe your mind's already going there what's your
(47:47):
favorite road trip memory oh gosh my favorite road trip memory we had a ton so it's hard to narrow
it down you know just being in the the VW bus with my brothers and sisters and you know traveling
(48:08):
from place to place and we had no idea and going to campgrounds and getting set up with the family
and just very cool being in a new spot you know so I don't think it's any particular place it's more
the journey yeah you know we're playing in the games there cards or the license plate game or
you know all those things you did as a kid oh my god license plate game oh I haven't thought about
(48:31):
that for a long time I haven't thought about that since my kids were really small and we were road
tripping oh my gosh my husband I still do it really yeah oh wow we got stuck on 75 for a couple
hours so we're like all right let's play the lessons plate game sometimes we got to go back
to those simplistic times the old leaf a kitty well we're wrapping it up but I want you and I to
(48:53):
stay on for a couple minutes Meg and I will sign off by saying challenge to likes everybody and
keep listening to life's a road trip thanks for listening check out previous episodes with new
ones dropping each Tuesday if you don't see a synopsis of this show where you're listening
visit our website at lifestroadtrip.podbean.com for more information on this week's guest
(49:20):
this is your host Scott Martin reminding you that life's a road trip
(49:50):
you
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