Raise your hand if you need a hug!

This is an encore episode while I focus on my teaching.

This week's guest is Jordan Roman.

So, answer the question: 'Raise your hand if you need a hug!' Okay, you're at work and you're afraid a colleague may think you're weird. Or you're listening in your car and sitting at a light that just turned green.

There! In your head, you raised your hand. Who doesn't need a hug, right?

Jordan is the writer, director, producer, and chief bottle washer of the short film, Cuddle Buddies. As I state more than once during the show, take 15 minutes for yourself and click HERE to watch for free.

Interesting stuff, huh?

Want to learn more about cuddle therapy? Click HERE to check it out. Need more information? Click HERE for a report from Newsweek.

Are you ready to possibly book a cuddle session? Go to CuddleList.com HERE. [No, they're not paying me -- but they can!]

Cuddle Buddies is what drew my interest in having Jordan on the show. But I don't want it lost that Jordan is a fantastic director and screenwriter who's at the front end of his film career. More of his work can be found HERE and HERE.

Remember the name: Jordan Roman.

 

Note: Oftentimes, links are not available on platforms such as Apple, iHeart, etc.. They are available within this episode on our website at https://lifesaroadtrip.podbean.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Being disabled or having a chronic illness can feel like you're moving forward in reverse.

(00:21):
I'm your host Scott Martin.
Join me and my new friends in this underrepresented community as we talk about disrupting the
status quo and creating change within the world and within ourselves.
A life's a road trip.
Hop in.
Let's turn on some tunes and go.

(00:56):
With me in the passenger city managing the radio for this road trip is Jordan Roman.
Jordan is a writer and director of films that explore the deeper connections and bonds and
emotional openness and honesty can bring us as people trying to navigate the world in
search of ourselves and our connections to others.
His films often explore these themes in dramatic context.
I was introduced to Jordan's work after stumbling onto a short film that we'll be digging into

(01:20):
today.
It's called Cuddle Buddies.
Both Jordan and I paused about how the film related to the disability community but then
it dawned on me that not only does society avoid discussing disability it and therefore
we look away from the need for human touch.
Hi Jordan.
Hey Scott, how's it going?
Pleasure to be on.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, you bet.

(01:41):
I am so much looking forward to doing this show with you.
Just as a matter of fact, I was having a rough day yesterday trying to juggle so many things
that were going on school years over but I still have a lot of other things going on
and I was just kind of bummed and I went back and I scheduled yesterday for going back
and watching Cuddle Buddies again.

(02:03):
Later my wife asked me, so how are you doing?
I said, well, I'm doing better and she asked me what did it?
I said, you know, I think watching that movie got to help me get through it.
You had an impact on me Matt.
So I appreciate it for what you're doing.
Thank you for saying that.
I mean, honestly, you always hope that for one as a filmmaker that someone will watch

(02:28):
your projects and the second thing you hope is that they can feel something from it and
whether that's just, it helps change their mood into being in a better mood or maybe
they're just feeling more in touch with their emotions or even just their fellow people.
I mean, that was I think one of my biggest goals with this film was can I create something

(02:49):
on screen that just makes you want to connect even that much more with your partner, your
friends, your father, your mother, like anyone else in your life.
You just want to kind of almost hold them that much closer, so to speak, based off the
subject matter.
Sue and I talked about it.
We want to be getting into actually doing this more.

(03:12):
We do take time for ourselves together as a couple and just kicking, listen to some tunes
or last night we got back from music fast in our small little town here in central Wisconsin.
And we decided instead of just doing anything major, it turned out to, we went outside and
just sat and listened to the birds and things.

(03:33):
Wow.
I love that.
I'm having an impact here, buddy.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I love that.
I want to mention, I want to really get into something that triggers.
And a lot of times when I'm doing the show, I tend to find threads that weave through people's
stories and how they got to where they're at.
I couldn't find a freaking thread on you, man, because it starts out with, you've got
a Bachelor of Arts in Cinema from Elon University.

(03:57):
But I've got one question for you, Jordan.
How the heck did a kid from Colorado Springs get into film?
It's a really great question.
And I think, honestly, I think a lot of it came back to my early days as a young boy,
my grandfather on my mom's side when we would go visit because he lives on the East Coast.

(04:20):
He was a huge lover of the old classics of cinema.
So Casablanca, The Sting, Bunch Cassidy, Hoosiers.
I mean, he was a huge fan of Robert Redford and Paul Newman and kind of that era of filmmaking.
I think subconsciously just from watching films with him and watching them with our family,
because we would all sit around and watch it together.

(04:43):
I think I just had a lot of great memories of films bringing people together, even from
that age.
And then I think as I was kind of moving my way through high school, I started to find
filmmaking as a way to connect with my friends, because we would do it for fun and we would
have so much fun doing these silly YouTube sketches that weren't serious.
After doing a number of those and realizing that it was never felt like work, but it

(05:08):
was just a way to connect with my friends, make things that were fun and still have an
in-product to show people when we were done, because you could always just go on YouTube
and watch it.
It always felt like such a great way to quantify the work that was done in a way that sometimes
you don't get to in other industries.
But I think it all came back to I was always having fun with people I cared about in the

(05:29):
process of making projects, and then as I got more serious about it and I started realizing,
I love to do this so much so that it almost feels obsessive and I spend every waking hour
thinking about what is the next thing I want to do, how can I scale up, how can I make bigger
projects that are more impactful than these kind of silly sketches.

(05:50):
And I think late in high school, I did this noir film, this neo-noir film that was inspired
by this movie called Brick, and I did it with a high school friend and it turned out better
than any of us had ever envisioned.
And I think that was what really set it off for me, was seeing just the kind of response
to that and seeing I think I have a future in this and some capacity.

(06:15):
I think that's where it all sort of started from and kind of photographing Colorado Springs
and the mountains, the beauty that it had in my hometown in Colorado Springs.
That to me very much became an interesting thing about capturing the scenery around you
in a way and making that its own character and celebrating it, but also again, just spending

(06:36):
time with people I cared about.
So I think that's really where the catalyst for it all came from.
I've got to go dig that one up, because I'm big in a noir, 40s 50s era.
I just love it.
It's a little rough being looking back now.
Of course, we're always critical of earlier work, but it really was the thing that I think

(06:58):
set me on this path and made me feel like I could do this in a real way down the line.
So but I can I can send you the link.
Yeah.
What was video reel 2013?
Oh, okay.
So I think that was honestly one of my very first demo reels.
It seemed like it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was funny.
You look back and you go.
But he was good.

(07:19):
Yeah.
I mean, it's your beginnings.
That's when you were really testing the waters and you were probably getting bitten by the
bug.
Absolutely.
I think it, yeah, that was really a lot of the projects that are on there because we
actually had to cut a demo reel for practice in one of my video classes in high school.
And thankfully, we had a really great video teacher who really kind of taught us to edit,

(07:43):
taught us to make projects and really pushed us to make things and learn by doing.
And so I think for for me, a lot of the projects you see on that reel in particular were made
with the same friend that I made the trace, which was the neo noir film I was talking
about.
We made that together and we were experimenting with just action, different camera angles,

(08:04):
you know, a little bit of visual effects, very early stages of it.
But I think it was me figuring out, finding the voice, trying to figure out what are,
what are things that are interesting and how do how do you do this in a more professional
manner, you know?
So so far, where you are today and that's a young filmmaker.
Has it turned out to be what you thought it would be when you started really going down

(08:27):
this road?
Honestly, no, I don't think so.
I think the biggest surprises so far have really been since I graduated from Elon and
I moved to L.A. about seven years ago.
I really think it's continued to be way more of a challenge and way harder, I think, in

(08:48):
a lot of ways than I ever envisioned when I first set out on this career path.
And I think my initial conception of what it was going to be was more, hey, you go out,
you get people, you shoot something and then you go out and then everybody sees it and
you're great.
And then you do the next one and it's it, you know, couldn't be further from the truth.
I think a lot more of it is you, you have to fight for every single project and you have

(09:12):
to even get innovative with how you find funding, especially for independent shorts that are
not necessarily going to have a distribution platform in the way that a feature film or
a television show would.
So I think you really didn't have to figure out how do I get this money.
Maybe I invest some of it of my own money into it.
I've done that plenty of times and you kind of start realizing this is, this is a lot

(09:35):
more expensive, but it also, each one is harder than you think.
But I think it really taught me was that, okay, if I'm going to sign up and do this and call
myself a filmmaker, I need to step up too.
And I just need to sign up for that challenge and I have to really put myself in the shoes
of what these other filmmakers have done and just, I think, rise to the occasion.

(09:59):
And I think that's been my biggest goal is just don't let it, you know, all the hardships
of it still make sure that you're making time to be a director and be a writer, even as
I'm making money doing other gigs, you know.
So I think the challenges were definitely a lot different than I thought.
Nobody in my family went into film.
So in some ways it was sort of an ignorance as bliss entering the industry kind of deal.

(10:24):
But also I think nobody was able to fully prime me and say, hey, it's, I mean, people
said, oh, this is going to be hard, but you never really know until you get there.
But thankfully I'm too far in, I think at this point to go down.
No way you're getting, you know, once we get in and start talking about Cuddle Buddies,
and I want to mention folks throw it out there.
Link to Cuddle Buddies is on the Life's a Road Trip website or wherever you're going

(10:48):
to be listening to this.
At any time, folks, feel free to pause this show and go watch it and then come back to
this and, you know, whichever way you want to do it, but you've got, you've got to see
it.
So you just went into something I have a feeling it might be one of the, I was going to ask
you the question, name one or two things that make making a film difficult.

(11:09):
And I listen, all right, money, you already talked about actors, security, location or
set.
What are a couple of things aside from money that just pop in your head?
Oh, God, what a pain in the ass.
Yeah, I think a lot of it too, especially as a, as a director and if you're a writer,
you're, you're someone who's who's seen that project from its very early conception through

(11:30):
to the very end.
And, and especially when you're that close to material, you, you care, you care probably
more than anyone else.
And so I think the one of the hard parts that I've found is sometimes, you know, because
film is such a collaborative art form, you really do have to work with crew members,
other people, and, and, and that is a great thing.

(11:52):
And sometimes I think you really just have to be very, very specific and, and particular
about protecting that vision, because when you bring in more people, inevitably, there's
going to be more voices in the room, especially when you get into kind of larger scale film
making when you have studios, execs, other people, you know, that have stake in the game,
they're going to have an opinion.

(12:13):
And so I think to the best degree that you can is sort of the author and, you know, the
harbinger of that, that story and that vision, I think you have to do everything in your
power to protect, you know, the integrity of the story, the narrative.
And in really sometimes that means fighting for, for decisions that people are trying
to change, but you know deep down, it has to be this very specific way down to the angle

(12:38):
needs to be this angle for not that angle.
And there's a reason for it.
So I think really fighting to protect the vision and being as crystal clear as possible
with a lot of different people, that was one of the things I had to learn how to do and
how to be comfortable doing, especially if you're disagreeing or you're having to dissent
from what maybe the common wisdom of how you'd shoot something is.

(13:02):
Sometimes you got to say, well, I know we're shooting it different, but there's a reasoning,
there's a method to the madness and I have to be confident enough to convey that to all
these people who are telling me that that we shouldn't do it that way.
So that's the biggest one, I think.
It's just amazing to me how professional you are with this and you have the total picture

(13:25):
of things.
You just seem older for your years.
Thank you.
It's just now I've read that you're working at Netflix as a story, an editorial coordinator
in the animated features department.
Tell us about some of the stuff behind Netflix.
I mean, you might not be able to give some stuff away and everybody knows about Netflix.
So tell us about that position.

(13:47):
Yeah, it's been really great because I've always really had a background in live action
production, especially the last, mostly five or so years since I've been in LA.
And so right around the time of the pandemic, I had a friend who had helped me get the job
working in animation at Netflix.
Cool.
And really it was my first time working on it.

(14:09):
I worked on a first animated series and then I rolled over to this current movie that I'm
working on called Thelma the Unicorn.
And so really I think the big thing for me was this was my first time working in animation
and learning what the pipeline looks like because it's a very different production process
than live action.
And in animation you're not going to any set to roll a camera, capture footage.

(14:33):
All of that is being created from the ground up.
So I think a lot of it was me learning what does that pipeline look like?
But you know, the very important aspects of character and story still come first as far
as being the most important things that the audience is going to engage with.
And really the metric of, is that a good story that's worth following?

(14:55):
And so I think in a lot of ways live action, whether it be series features or animated
series or features, a lot of the same principles apply.
It's sort of just a difference of how did you get from point A to point B as far as
the technical elements of assembling that project.
But yeah, it's been really great.

(15:17):
I think the things that I've really learned that Netflix are just, for one, how to take
better notes as a note taker oftentimes a lot of my daily tasks involve taking notes
in an edit review and really dialing into what is the action item here.
And sometimes you have to sift through the parlance of shorthand and they won't even

(15:39):
save shots or shot numbers and you have to just be really clued into which shot are they
talking about?
Which character are they talking about?
Which line of dialogue is this affecting?
And so it's really taught me to be extremely perceptive.
And I think even just in my own personal meetings or when I'm going through the world now,
I try to be more engaged with what is every single element of that thing that I can take

(16:05):
from it or even take a note of.
So I think it's helped in that way.
And it's really helped me too just with learning the editorial organizational process for how
to run and maintain a really organized edit department and down to how do you label files
properly so that it's easy to find at a moment's notice.
And I've actually incorporated a lot of those workflows into my own personal projects and

(16:31):
sometimes I'm editing those projects in addition to directing them.
So it's really helped me kind of learn how does a professional department run in that
way and how can I apply that and just be more aware of how does an editor work and how does
an editor and their team work and how do they work with their assistants down to the lowest

(16:54):
level person to the highest level person.
So yeah, I think it's been a really wonderful learning experience working there.
And I will say too, just to be totally transparent about the last couple years at the company
with the stock kind of having an interest in the situation, I'm grateful to say that
I kind of made it through some of those layoff rounds.

(17:17):
And I feel like we're in a pretty good place as a company, not being any official spokesperson
for the company, but it's been, I really think it's been a great place to learn and to work
and to still have a chance to be working on a movie, which is all I've ever really wanted
to do since high school is really a bit of a blessing.
You know what you were just talking about, everything that you've been learning and all

(17:41):
the aspects of how things fit together.
It took me back to when I was a freshman in college, I took a class on film and film history
and right there, it goes back to the pre-talkie era, the silent era on how films are made,
that the professor had us learning exactly the same stuff that you're talking about.

(18:06):
So what you're doing now goes back more than 100 years and you're following those same
people.
I mean, maybe you know it or not, but it takes me back to that professor talking about things.
Now, also what you were getting into, Dornant, made me think about the saying that I really
learned as I got older.

(18:28):
It's not what you know, but who you know.
Are you finding that true in the film industry?
I really think so.
I am a firm believer in just the craft and the artistry, I think as you're going through
your journey, there's always, it's necessary to continue to learn and experiment and really

(18:50):
just kind of hone that artistry and you're always trying to get better.
But I really do believe that sometimes those people you know in your network, that connection
you might make at a restaurant or a bar, especially living in Los Angeles, it can be that pivotal
thing that takes your art from being seen to possibly not being seen.

(19:13):
I think it really is true.
I think it's true.
I think there's very much ways to go about that more genuinely and some people aren't
quite as genuine about how they go about networking.
Oh, I'm sure.
People, you know, especially in LA.
But I think I've learned because that is a part of the process and because oftentimes

(19:34):
you do have to work and rely on other people to help go to bat for your project as an artist.
You know, you have people like agents, managers, salespeople, financiers.
I mean, we need those people to help us get our projects not only made but seen in a greater
capacity.
You know, so it's, I always say filming is two battles.

(19:57):
The first one is making the project.
The second is getting it seen, you know, and getting it distributed and getting it exhibited
and in the right place for it to have a chance to be successful.
So, so really, sometimes the harder battle people might be shocked to hear this, the harder
battles getting it seen, you know what I mean?

(20:18):
They're both very hard battles.
But, but I think I've learned that that component of the equation does come down to oftentimes
the networking and the people that you know who can, who can help go to bat and believe
in the project.
And that's oftentimes what you are doing when you're not making films.
You're either prepping the next one or you're trying to advocate for yourself to get somebody

(20:40):
to take a chance on you as an artist or a filmmaker.
So a lot of times I'm honestly spending time doing that just to try to get my work seen
in a greater scale.
Yeah, it seems like you're a learner through doing and through process.
And of course, making mistakes screwing up in the, oh, okay, I'll change that and learn

(21:01):
from it.
Have you been an intern?
Have you been officially an intern at any time?
I have, yeah, so I've done two internships.
One of them, when I was in Elon still in school, I did a whole semester in LA when I was a
sophomore.
So that would have been 2013.
And I worked at this company called Young Hollywood, which was sort of a celebrity and

(21:26):
entertainment news source.
And it was actually really great because I met a lot of people there that I still keep
in touch with that are really great people.
It did kind of teach me some very basics of production too and just how a company operates
in the real world.
And they did treat me really well during that internship.
The other one I did, this one's actually really interesting because it's really not film centric

(21:51):
at all, but I had a chance to intern at the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.
Oh, yeah, that's so great.
So a summer between my junior and senior years of college.
And it was really one of the greatest experiences I had because I got to intern and help edit
and shoot a lot of science videos for the different topics that they were covering and

(22:15):
they were trying to use to help as educational tools on that site.
And so it was cool because I got to learn these science and aeronautical concepts as
we were shooting and editing the videos.
And I was working with a lot of other people who were in production and kind of knew that.
But I also was living and getting to know a lot of other interns in the program who were

(22:38):
in completely different.
I mean, I'm talking aerospace engineer, caliber brilliant people and I'm over here doing film
and I'm kind of going, wow, I don't know if I should be here.
But it was really a great way to learn.
And honestly, some of my best friends that I still keep in touch with, I met through
that program.
And it's so great because we couldn't be more different in what we're doing.

(23:01):
But it's really great that now I have this network of people who are not in the film
industry who they really, they think what I do is cool.
I think what they do is really cool.
So yeah, I think those two internships specifically that NASA one was such a great experience
that I'm so glad I did that really was not Hollywood, L.A. centric.
It was very far from that.

(23:23):
And I think it was really important for me to do that.
Now I've got to ask you one question just before we start getting into talking about
cuddle therapy and everybody's.
It seems that anytime you hear about an actor or someone that's in film and television,
has it some time while they're climbing the ladder, worked in a restaurant or bar?

(23:46):
Have you, Jordan, worked in a restaurant or bar?
I actually have it.
It's funny.
I feel like I am one of the few people I know who hasn't.
I haven't ever worked at a restaurant or bar in my time in L.A.
The only time I did work at a bar was back in high school.
My dad actually owns a sports bar in Colorado.

(24:08):
Cool.
And I worked there a couple summers in between my high school years.
So I guess I had some, a little bit of early bar experience working in the kitchen.
But as far as being in L.A., I haven't.
But most of my friends, especially who are actors, have either serving jobs, bartending
jobs or have worked at restaurants.

(24:31):
So yeah, I'm very grateful to say that every single job I've ever had in L.A. that has
paid has been entertainment in some nature, whether it be a freelance position or full-time,
something like I am at Netflix now.
So yeah, I'm really grateful just a lot of people that care about me and have helped

(24:52):
me navigate the waters and get me positions.
That is a lot of what's led to just me being able to work in your entertainment field the
entire time.
For better or for worse.
There's something later on in the show I want to bring up that it's not just you receiving
from people, but there's something that I read from you that I would categorize as you're

(25:14):
paying it forward for others.
I applaud that, but we'll get to it.
But right now I want to get into cuddle therapy.
And here's something I googled up.
Professional cuddling is a form of therapy that combines platonic touch and companionship.
This unique therapy is more than just hugs.
A cuddle therapist must listen, acknowledge, and soothe a client using sensory and communicative

(25:39):
skills.
The word that I highlighted and bolded is platonic and that seems to be a stickler for
me because I just think, oh boy, how the heck does this work?
And there's going to be a link to stuff like this again on Life's Road Trip website for

(26:02):
people.
I mean, they should just go out and explore it themselves anyway because it's extremely
interesting.
I also read that cuddle therapy can be done by Zoom and there was a boom during the pandemic
because of, you know, most of us lost our sense of touch and being with other people.
What drew you to this topic?

(26:26):
I really think it was when I first read this article about the world's most bizarre professions.
That's where I found out about it.
I was just researching, I came across this article on Google and it was ranking them and
up there toward the very top was professional cuddling and it had a very kind of brief description

(26:49):
about what it is and that people do it for a living and people hire cuddlers as clients.
And all of the creative bells and whistles kind of went off in my head as soon as I read
that because I just found myself thinking that is so out there.
I mean, it is so wild that people would do this.

(27:13):
And then I started thinking who would do this and then I started thinking who would hire
a cuddler and I think because of the onslaught of questions that immediately popped up into
my head, I just started kind of formulating all of these disparate thoughts, but they all
felt like interesting, dramatic questions to ask and to contextualize on screen in a

(27:36):
film capacity.
And as a writer, I mean, you talk about like divine inspiration or however you would call
it, it that almost felt like something that I would describe as that because it immediately
just went, my writer brain went, this is, I also, the other thing I liked about it was
like you said, it was so unique.
It was so novel to me.

(27:58):
I'd never seen or heard anything about this work before in any other medium.
And I have to admit that was something that really, really attracted me to the idea was
that I had never seen this put on film.
I had never seen this really even covered and I sort of wanted to be one of the first

(28:19):
to hopefully do it in a real narrative capacity.
So I think it was a lot of those things, but it also scared me.
And I think that was the other component of it that really led me to committing to do
it was I admit I was a little bit judgmental of the profession.
And I was wondering, is it something else?

(28:41):
Is it, you know, I think I had all these preconceived thoughts about it.
And I think that my own personal bias was thinking, oh, I wouldn't do that.
You know, I think I really thought that at the time and the more I thought about it,
I went, this sounds a little bit, this sounds wild enough that I actually think I need to
do it because I think it's going to really be an important metric of growth for me as

(29:06):
an artist, as a person and in somebody just trying to overcome their own preconceived
judgments about a thing and really force myself to open my mind and just jump in and try it.
And you know, when I first started telling friends and family that I was going to pursue
a film about this day, they all thought I was insane, you know, and the way they looked

(29:27):
at me, then they had crap questions about it.
And they, you know, and at the time, honestly, I hadn't done the full scale of the research.
So I didn't really even know myself, but I really think it was the combo of a little
bit of the fear and the unique element of it.
But also I really did see a dramatic possibility there because of the fact that people were

(29:52):
paying to be touched because there clearly was such a lack thereof in their life.
What did that say about our society, you know, and what did it say about our need for touch?
Even though sometimes platonic touch can be so uncomfortable or taboo, I think in our
culture in America.

(30:13):
So I think it very much was me trying to seek to explore and understand that that need and
that fear of intimacy and vulnerability because I think I sometimes I recognize that that
own fear in myself.
So I think in a way, I was sort of me trying to explore deeper parts about myself, but
really to learn more about this work and honestly help people learn about this work too, especially

(30:38):
the further I got into the research, it felt like maybe I can be in a position to educate
other people and really put this position and this work in a positive life, especially
for the people who could use this as a viable form of therapy.
Yeah, it's just not, no, I was the same way as what the heck is this?

(30:59):
And it obviously the first thing it does is opens our doors in our mind about sexuality.
Yeah.
Did you come across in any of your studies, any male professional cutlers?
I did actually.
Yeah, the coolest thing was a lot of the research I did and even some of the cutlers that I

(31:21):
spoke and worked with and talked to, they were either new male cutlers or they had had
some on staff and it was really cool to see that there was a lot of different people
who do this work.
Men, women, even non-binary people who do this work and it was really cool to see that

(31:46):
it's not just women.
I think sometimes people thought when I talked to them about the project, I think most people
assumed it was only women doing it or predominantly and I do still think there's probably a higher
number of women who do it but there's a lot of people of all backgrounds who do it and
their reasons for getting into it were always so fascinating to me too.

(32:10):
While you're talking about this, my mind is drifting off and thinking back to, so I came
down with group-based strep, neckitizing fasciitis, the faschine disease and I woke up after a
month in a coma and found out I had both hands and parts of both feet amputated and that
was in the hospital for four more months and I came out as a male work, work, work.

(32:33):
I was running a nationally ranked soccer program collegiate level and that's what I focused
on and thinking back, that probably would have helped me a whole heck of a lot because
I avoided it.
I wasn't in a relationship at the time anyway and no way in hell was I going to get into
one.
So that, I hope people that are in the disabled community and that's probably at least 95%

(32:58):
of the listeners could consider this because of what we as a group go through but heck,
anyone, our society, man, put blocks up on things.
We just don't do it enough.
Yeah.
No, I think you're right and I think sometimes it really, it does come down to just overcoming
that initial fear of whether it be the awkwardness or the just uncomfortability or sometimes

(33:26):
I do know people, people who grow up in such various different types of households and
with different relationships to touch from their own family members growing up.
So I do think that there sometimes is a little bit of that initial hurdle but it's, what
I found was so fascinating is when I did a session with a woman who we can talk more

(33:51):
about to who named Jean who ended up becoming our onset intimacy coordinator but also the
consultant for the film to really make sure that this work was shown and depicted accurately
and I really welcomed that and wanted that just to really make sure that I was doing
justice to this community.

(34:13):
And it was so fascinating that when I did my session just for my own anecdote, when
I was driving over there and I, you know, again, I told friends and family, I'm going
to do a session with a total stranger.
We had a phone call and they initially give you all the details of the phone call of what
to expect before and they sort of pre-screen you and make sure you know what it is and

(34:37):
what it's not.
But you know, there's still nothing like when you're going over there for a first session
and those first couple minutes are very, they can be very nerve-wracking as a first-time
client because you just don't know what to expect and within 10 or 15 minutes, especially
once we got into the first coddle position and they all have such interesting fun names

(35:01):
and there's so many different types of coddle positions.
It's so fun and I love that they really have fun with it but I felt so taken care of by
Jean and again that word that you mentioned in the description of coddling soothe.
I think it's such a great part of the description because that is what it's supposed to do is

(35:22):
it's completely consensual too and that's one thing that they really stress is they never
initiate any touch, any position, anything unless you give the verbal okay and they ask,
they check in with you every step of the way and so the great part is you feel so taken
care of and heard and respected that you're making decisions based off your own accord

(35:47):
and I think for me after the first 10, 15 minutes I really physiologically my body just
really softened and relaxed and any sort of the initial nerves really went out the window
and so I think it really is just that initial hurdle and a lot of that is just, honestly
just preconceived notions I think and if you can get to those the whole rest of that session

(36:09):
and your body and mind are going to thank you for it later because it really does make
you feel that lack of stress, that connection, that real relaxation and I remember feeling
just so relaxed and honestly I felt so at peace on the way home I slept great that night.

(36:32):
I remember so I think there really are these scientific health benefits that genuinely
do come from platonic and physical connection with another person.
Yeah and you touch on some of the aspects of misinterpretation in the film but we'll
get there for a second.
I want to start with looking at some of the credits and your list is the writer, producer,

(36:58):
director and editor.
Dude, he did a lot.
Gregory Roman is exactly the producer.
Is that brother?
That's my father.
Okay cool.
He helped a little bit with our, we had a crowd source campaign to raise the funds to
have the budget so he very graciously offered up a small portion of that.

(37:21):
Okay, nice.
Now the film is a little bit over 15 minutes long so it's considered in the shorts category.
It starts with a Caitley Claire, great actor.
Thank you.
Yeah.
She's a wonderful one.
So, Liz, in loving memory of Jack Armistead, who is this?
Yeah, so actually my grandfather on my mom's side, he actually was the one who, I'm really

(37:48):
glad you're bringing that up because earlier we were talking about what was one of my first
initial ways that I got into loving cinema and it was watching it with Jack Armistead
and my grandfather because he was the one who loved Hoosiers and the Sting and Robert
Redford and Paul Newman.
So, in such a nice way, I'm glad you brought that around because he passed away.

(38:12):
Unfortunately, he got to see the film, which was amazing.
Oh good.
He passed away at the end of 2020.
So that very much when we were finishing post, it felt appropriate to pay tribute to
him for my initial reason that I'm doing this probably in the first place.
Yeah, you have to.
It's listed as an ominous entertainment and cabin one entertainment production.

(38:39):
What's the terminology there?
What's the name?
Yeah, good question.
So, I have my own little production company banner called ominous entertainment and that's
what I started making a lot of my projects under within the last couple of years.
And then my other producer named AJ Vargas, he has his own company too called cabin one.

(39:03):
So at the end of it all, it was very much a co-production in a way of both of us and
our resources coming together to make it possible and even supplying a little bit of
funds from both sides too.
So yeah, but I think it really was the sharing of the resources that was helpful because I
supplied a certain amount of crew and people, he supplied certain crew and sometimes you're

(39:27):
often just sourcing.
What's a good person in this role?
Great.
Okay, what about this role?
And so oftentimes it's you rotate and just bring the same people back a lot.
You get to know women.
I can't state it strongly enough.
Folks need to, again, even while you're listening to pause this show, go watch it.
You may end up wanting to watch it again.

(39:48):
This is so well done.
Thank you.
I want to get right to the opening scene.
You've got it's sexual in nature because you have Lucy, who's the main character, under
a sheet with a woman.
Is that a client?
That is a client.
Yeah.
And so one thing that you're completely right, I think for the sake of the dramatic purposes,

(40:14):
one of the initial things that I wanted was I wanted it not to be too sexual in nature,
but I wanted there to be a question for the audience at first to ask when they're first
seeing this, is this a relationship or is this, you know, is this, who is this, what
is this relationship?
Right.

(40:35):
And I think at the very start, if you don't know what the film's about it, you could think,
oh, they're in a relationship.
And I think we did that sort of just as a misdirect in the writing phase so that you
come back around and you go, oh, okay, wait, that if you think back to it, you kind of
realize, oh, that actually is a client and that is a client that she feels very comfortable
with and that is a repeat client.

(40:57):
And that's very much the dialogue you'd have where it's like, you know, you would say with
a repeat client, you kind of already know what what cuddle positions they kind of like
and you're more comfortable.
So the way they're interacting versus when you see Lucy interacting later in the film
with Jeffrey and Fiona, because their first time clients is vastly different.

(41:19):
So I think that was one thing I also wanted to show and contrast, but also throw you in
with and have you ask the questions first, you know, well, it educated me because of
course it grabbed me, but I also, when I wasn't watched it the second time, of course, you
know, the objective changes.
But during the entire movie, it comes up early and you scatter it nicely.

(41:42):
Lucy's going through so much turmoil in her life, but she needs the cat.
You know, this is one of the things I wanted to get into with you.
She needs a cast aside for her clients.
Did you learn how professional cuddlers deal with spending so much energy or exuding so
much energy of their own that they might be spent as well and look at Lucy situation
with her husband who thinks that she's a sex worker?

(42:05):
Right.
Yeah, I think I did and just from a lot of my conversations with Jean, who was our on
set cuddle coordinator and intimacy coordinator, you know, really a lot of what she explained
to me was that she actually does get a boost from having clients and helping soothe them

(42:27):
and really being of help, you know, to them.
As she even said, sometimes you as a cuddle or you either do a session as a client with
a different cuddle or sometimes you do have to build into the way you schedule.
Sometimes you do have to build in those recharge times so you actually can recharge in the

(42:48):
same way that, you know, after being social for a long time, you might need to kind of
recoup before you reemerge.
It's sort of a similar idea from what, you know, she described to me.
So I think there is that component because sometimes it does take a lot out of you.
And I think the other thing I thought was interesting about the narrative structure for

(43:09):
this film was because Lucy does have a lot of this extraneous drama that's happening
parallel to her professional life.
I wanted to show that sometimes it can take a toll and you still have to find ways to
bring that energy for your clients.

(43:30):
And, you know, in this might be teasing ahead, but in the feature script version, which I
just finished writing the feature script for, we actually do get to see a little more of
Lucy when she's going through the process of the divorce that it is slightly affecting
her work because she's so drained.

(43:52):
She almost doesn't have quite the same amount to give and how painful that is for her to
even realize that too, you know, with clients where she's not 100% there.
So that's something very much in the feature I wanted to kind of examine more because you're
totally right.
I think it does take a toll sometimes just from the amount of giving that you're doing,

(44:15):
you know, as a cuddler to the client.
So in the production of the film, and some of the, your touch is man.
So you do you you snippets from different sessions and weave them through the cuddlers,
her personal struggles.
So you've got one scene where it seems that the husband and wife Lucy and her husband

(44:36):
are going to be splitting.
It seems like you use single shots on each of them and they both seem to be, they're
fading away.
So that's them, their relationship fading away.
And, and how you had the snippets and using their personal camera for when things were
good with them and their daughter and the, and the playfulness.

(45:00):
So you bringing all of that stuff and you're weaving all of that stuff together and using
different techniques.
I got it.
And I think you did an amazing job because it in such a short film, you use so many different
techniques, but you blended them together extremely well that gave us a sense of Lucy's

(45:21):
persona and her ups and downs.
She enjoys her job, but then the husband says that she's a sex worker.
I just really enjoyed doing it.
One more thing I wanted to mention because I just finished up season two of Perry Mase
on on HBO.
And I was watching it with Sue and I kept saying, I referred back to Cuddle Buddies.

(45:46):
He uses the same sort of lighting that they're using in Perry Mason.
No, you are.
I mean, it's, it's kind of a, they're a little bit more noir asked, but I notice the same
sense and use of light that made me feel comfortable.
Thank you.
Perry Mason, what are yours?
Thank you.
Yeah.
It was, it was really awesome because our cinematographer, his name is Brennan Miller.

(46:09):
We had actually met when I used to work at the Panavision Hollywood camera rental house.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
And it was really great because I actually got, as a director, I got really familiar
with the cameras, the accessories, the lenses and why you would use this lens series versus
this lens series.

(46:30):
And what was really great was one of the perks of working there was we got a certain amount
of free camera packages as an employee perk.
Oh, nice.
What was really great was one of our camera assistants used, you know, one of hers.
And so we had these incredible Panavision lenses, which I think really helped add to
just the production value, the closeups that the level of detail in the closeups, because

(46:53):
there are a lot of closeups in this film and for the purposes of really showcasing that
intimacy.
But really, I think the Brennan's lighting and then the use of the Alexa classic, we
shot at 2K resolution, I think really just with that combo of good lighting with good

(47:14):
locations that help support some of the natural daylight and really just kind of selling this
warm feeling.
And that was, I'm glad that, you know, you said that too, because one of the terms that
I used when I was talking to Brennan about how I wanted the film to look in pre-production
was warm and comforting and soothing very much in the way that, you know, a cuddling

(47:35):
session is supposed to soothe the client.
I got it now.
And to go for trying to soothe the audience member.
Yes.
And my biggest goal is to make it feel like as an audience member, you were in that cuddle
session as well in a way, you know, feeling and maybe reaping some of those benefits too.
You did that exactly.

(47:56):
That's what I was going to state.
I felt a warmth.
Thank you.
And I think that's a lot of my brilliant appreciate hearing that.
It came across, it really, it came across and I hope, I don't want it.
We don't want to give too much stuff away so people can have their own view, but they're
going to feel the warmth too.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I wanted to mention the music you used.

(48:18):
To me, I wrote down, it was both erotic and supporting of the shots.
How did you choose the music?
Yeah.
Well, a lot of it was, I really knew I wanted an original score and what was really interesting
is because of our crowd source campaign, I actually had a lot of composers reach out
to me and say, hey, do you have music for this?

(48:40):
I'd love to be considered to score this.
And so I sifted through a lot of different composers and I actually had a number of them
do just kind of a very quick sample to a clip, you know, and the composer we ended up going
with his name is Paco Pariaggio.
And he is based, I'm pretty sure he's based out of Italy.

(49:05):
So he's not even in the States, but his sample was just totally nailed kind of the theme
of Cuddle Buddies and the music that you hear at the very end as, you know, the credits
are just starting to roll.
To me, that felt so powerful.
And when I first heard that and his sample, I went, that's great.
And I think that's kind of maybe our theme there that he sort of weaves through the film

(49:30):
when you kind of listen to it.
But I think it very much was hearing it and kind of realizing I did like this idea of
it feeling soothing and a little bit ambient, but still having this emotional build and
a little bit of a climax to the music when it crescendos, you know.

(49:51):
So I think it sort of was just hearing that, listening and just kind of knowing, okay,
I think this is the way we go.
And then honestly, it did take a lot of finessing.
I think I went through and I gave a lot of notes on shaping, especially in certain moments.
You know, it was, I think it needs to kind of be this here.
And, you know, and then it was that dialogue between Paco and I really trying to nail the

(50:15):
music all throughout the film, you know.
You did it, I mean, it just comes across and knowing how young you are, it still doesn't
fit.
And here we are talking.
I think if young guy is doing this stuff, man, I mean, you, it found you, you found it.
That's what you're supposed to be doing.

(50:38):
So we're getting towards the end of the show.
What's next?
You said you are working on something, right?
What are you working on?
So that my biggest goal now is, you know, to be honest, when I first envisioned Cuddle
Buddies, I think you can kind of feel it.
The joke I make is it feels like a feature in a short, you know, in a short skin.

(51:00):
It does, yeah.
Yeah.
And you can feel that because there's a longer, it has this whole structure.
There's a middle section where there's a montage, there's an opening and there's sort of a
closing.
And I think I initially knew that I kind of in my verbose form of writing, I kind of
just went, okay, well, I'm going to make a longer short and that's what it's going to

(51:23):
be.
And it's going to be standalone and that is what Cuddle Buddies will be.
And that'll be the end of it.
And so only later on, when I started showing the film around town and then even just getting
people who started to come across it later, like yourself and just had such incredibly
kind things to say about it, which I'm super grateful for, it started to really dawn on

(51:49):
me that I wasn't done with this world and these characters yet.
But I think I started to realize that as I was really looking toward, okay, now I think
I'm really ready to start putting together my first feature as a writer director.
What is that idea going to be?
And I think it inevitably just ended up always coming back to, I think it has to be Cuddle

(52:12):
Buddies because I think that is going to be a stronger mark of my sensibilities.
But I think it hopefully will be just unique and different debut as a feature director
and writer.
And so I think the more I showed it, the more people, the other thing people kept asking
about is when it cuts the black, what happens next?

(52:38):
Without spoiling too much, it's like what happens with the mother-daughter situation,
what happens with the divorce situation.
Those things are left not completely resolved at the end.
And so I think that was one thing more people were kind of curious about knowing more about.
And so I think that's when it dawned on me.
I want to do the feature version of this.
And so I actually just recently finished the script draft.

(53:04):
And I had already gone through a couple of drafts of that.
But it's finally at the place where I'm actually starting to try to send it out to producers,
get financiers involved, attach talent, really start to put together the building box of
an independent finance plan for this film.
So the goal is to try to make it and shoot it.

(53:25):
Yeah, exactly, the money part is always the thing you're looking for, especially as a
first-time feature director.
So that's the big one.
And then I have a couple of other short films that are in post right now that I wrote and
directed since Cuddle Bodies that are hopefully all coming out within the next couple of
months, each one after each other in succession.

(53:47):
So yeah, it's been staying active and staying busy since then.
Well, it certainly sounds like I'm on your newsletter, so I'll be getting sourced on
that.
And about the Cuddle Bodies thing, it depends on the timing.
You know, with the next presidential election coming, there's so much shit that we're going
to be heading into.
I think something like Cuddling might be, the timing might be good for people that say,

(54:13):
hey, maybe I need this because all the craziness that we're going to be going through soon.
So I think you got something there, man.
I really did.
Thank you.
Yeah, I really hope so too.
And it's to kind of go off your point.
I mean, even yesterday morning, I came across this Instagram profile of this guy who was

(54:37):
holding a sign and he just said, give me a hug if you are going through anxiety or depression.
And he had a blindfold on him.
I was shocked at how many people were coming up to him in this video and they were hugging
him and then some of the people who came up, they just all of a sudden the floodgates
opened and they just were sobbing because nobody else at the time seems to have been

(55:00):
like there to hold them or comfort them.
And honestly, I sobbed.
I cried like a baby when I saw that video because it kind of dawned on me yet again.
I think so often we are just going through our days, bottling up a lot, trying to stay
strong and if you're never kind of releasing that and you're not having somebody to hold

(55:22):
you and just listen.
And sometimes it's all you need.
You don't even have to have them talk to you.
You just need them there to listen and hold you.
And once you let go of that, you always feel so much better and it's this catharsis.
So I think very much so with kind of the division in our country, all these things going on
where unfortunately I think people are primed to just want to engage in conflict.

(55:50):
And my goal with this film and with my art and hopefully just in my interactions with
people is I would like to try to do the opposite.
I would like to try to bring us together and literally connect so to speak.
Exactly.
And this film very much is a great example of the coming together but in the most literal
way in physical connection.

(56:13):
So I think that was something I kind of realized was a genuine interest in mind.
And sometimes even just looking at the film in hindsight, I go, I guess I really just always
have wanted to connect people, bring people together.
And this film is just another form of that, just in an artistic capacity.
Yeah.
Well, here's one thing that I think will bring a smile to people's faces.

(56:37):
And the sound of the VW Beetle means it's time to shift gears as we had to do the road
trip round up.
What's the?
All right, man.
Jordan, when road tripping, do you tend to do fast food or local diners?
I try to do local diners.
I really do.
I'm trying to check out things that you are so unique to that place.

(57:00):
So many people I think that listen to the show, I bet they're they've been changing their
ways, this show and asking that question has changed my ways to when we were heading out
today on the road trip for soccer and we're going to be.
So amazing.
Number two, what's your dream car for road trip?
Could be something you grew up with, you know, like a station wagon or something you guys
had your parents have, or you have now or maybe you'd spend some money and renting for

(57:25):
a road trip.
That's a dream car.
I think honestly for for a road trip that was more of a comfortable road trip car, I think
I would I would love something like a like a like a Land Rover or a Ford Bronco.
There's kind of this new Ford Bronco or a defender.
I think the defender is made by Land Rover too.
But to me, it's sort of that combo of it's a sleek car, but it also is big enough to be

(57:51):
comfortable with your road tripping.
If it was just a solar road trip, I'd probably do a sportier, like a Porsche.
Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah, there you go.
It's down the coast outside of LA.
All right.
So you're a young guy.
You probably wouldn't even know what the first thing I'm going to mention is what's
the last cassette or CD that played while you're on a road trip.

(58:14):
Hell you're young enough.
If you want to mention some your favorite station on Sirius, you go ahead.
But I think, okay, let's see as far as I could take a sat and then CD the the last cassette
I probably had was you even know about that surprises.
Yeah.
Probably this was like a while ago, but I had a cassette tape for Britney Spears's Hit

(58:38):
Me Baby one more time.
Okay.
You know, when she first was kind of coming out and I remember we would we would play
that and I don't know why we had it, but yeah, we would play that.
And sometimes in the car and then when when they started kind of doing away with, you
know, tape decks and the car and then it just became like CDs and now a lot of cars don't
even have that.

(59:00):
But the CD, the last CD I think I had, gosh, I think it was it was probably this metal
band called I actually really love metal, which is funny because it sounds so like an
opposition to the cuddling.
But there's this metal band called Asking Alexandria in high school is my favorite metal band.

(59:25):
I guess it was partly just a catharsis of the, you know, the aggression of it and being
a young man.
But that album, I it's called Stand Up and Scream was their first album and stat now
I'm just like blew me away.
I must have played that so many times the the lining on it got damaged and it actually
skips now because I played it so many times in my car.

(59:49):
Yeah, that's that's our favorite stuff.
Yeah.
True.
Yep.
Question number four, Coke or Pepsi?
Probably Coke.
Yeah.
Coke for sure.
Yeah.
That's leading the way.
I know it is.
I don't officially write this stuff down, but I'm sure it's at least 70 30.
All right.
Here's the big one.
You take this wherever you want to go.

(01:00:10):
Okay, Jordan, what's your favorite road trip memory?
Oh, good question.
I think honestly, I think I took a road trip.
I was a lot younger, I must have been probably 12 at the time, but I did this three week road
trip and an RV with my dad, Gregory Roman, who's listed in the credits, my cousin, my

(01:00:36):
grandfather, Jack Armistad, who is also listed in the credits and then my uncle.
So all of us guys got into our RV and we took a three week road trip.
We started in Colorado.
We went over to California and then we kind of went up the Pacific Northwest into Vancouver
and kind of circled back around, came back around Salt Lake Grand Canyon.

(01:00:57):
And basically we went to like 20 different national parks, kind of just around that part
of the country.
We went to Yosemite, we went to Yellowstone.
Wow.
And it was such a fun trip.
I mean, it wasn't without its blowups.
You know?
We definitely had some scraps in there in between.

(01:01:20):
But I think just the memory of traveling for that long, being on the road, seeing so many
parts of the country with my family.
And it was just a guys trip to the max.
But I think that was such a fun, memorable road trip because of how in depth it was and
how long it was.
It was definitely the longest road trip I've ever learned a lot about being a male and

(01:01:43):
a lot of other things on trips like that.
That is true.
Yeah.
That's really some good stuff.
That's some good stuff.
Hey, we're wrapping up.
But I want us to stay on for a minute after we clear off.
I just want to tell our listeners, challenge the likes of everybody and keep listening
to Life's A Road Trip.
Thanks for listening.

(01:02:04):
Check out previous episodes with new ones dropping each Tuesday.
If you don't see a synopsis of this show where you're listening, visit our website at
life's a roadtrip.podbean.com for more information on this week's guest.
This is your host Scott Martin reminding you that Life's A Road Trip.