April 21, 2024 • 47 mins
In this enlightening episode of 'Making It Happen', host Leesa Csolak speaks with Shannon Tubman, a mother, who successfully guided her daughters' journey in the performing arts industry. Shannon opens up about the importance of nurturing unique talents, learning industry etiquettes, and the reserve of parents in the face of challenges and auditions.
Dive headfirst into the reality of managing anticipated hurdles and overwhelming triumphs when your child chooses a career in acting. Discover the shared elements between a child's journey in acting, sports, and music requiring equal parts sacrifice, spontaneity, and adaptability. Shannon shares crucial advice on making the acting journey an enjoyable stress-free experience for the child and the corresponding family.
Understand how school plays a crucial role amidst auditions and callbacks while maintaining a balance with a demanding acting schedule. From sharing unique audition experiences to offering expert advice on academic achievements, Shannon unravels the unknown aspects of a child's journey in the acting industry. Learn the importance of embracing a child's unique character and the impact parental attitude can make in their professional journey.
Lastly, get a real-time peek into the life of high school student and actor Echo, her rhythm in academics, and her audition experiences. Cheer for Echo's academic accomplishments and discover her sister Sophie's passionate involvement in school theater. The episode brings to light the enriching impact of arts in a child's life, striking the right balance with academics, and creating priceless memories through their journey.
As the episode progresses, Shannon shares her trusting relationship with their agents, their unified bonding activities outside auditions, their collective enthusiasm for animals, and their treasured experiences as volunteers. She also talks about their involvement in The Trevor Project and how it impacted their lives profoundly.
Come, be a part of this enlightening journey, as Shannon recounts the journey of nurturing and balancing her children's professional career with the unforgettable family bonds they created along the way.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Music.
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To Making It Happen, A Career in the Performing Arts, where we discuss how to
break into the performing arts industry for yourself or your child, teen, or young adult.
Guests include artists, creatives, casting directors,
musical directors, choreographers, agents, and managers, as well as parents
of young professional actor, singer, dancers,
all who are passionate and share my vision of helping talented individuals land
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professional representation and have successful careers in the arts.
My name is Lisa Solek, and I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
a career in the performing arts, having helped hundreds of clients break into
the business on stage, in films, television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
(00:51):
For more information, check out all the ways that you can benefit from my courses,
my programs, my free weekly newsletter, and free guides.
Go to lbctalent.com.
My guest today is Shannon Tubman. Hi Shannon, how are you?
I'm good. Hi Lisa, good to see you. Good to see you too. I can't how long it's been.
I feel like this COVID situation really has put kind of like a set amount of time.
(01:17):
It's separated everybody for a little while, but it doesn't really feel like
that much time has gone by because I've been following Echo and following Sophie
and yourself on social media.
So I can see everything that they're doing and And I feel like we're all connected in that way.
And we follow what you're doing and all of your students and their amazing achievements.
So it's not that much of a separation.
(01:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so great. So I'm really excited to have you here because
you are a mother of two really talented girls and they got involved in the industry at such a young age.
And I think all of what you have been through and what you have experienced
your entire journey is going to be really helpful to the listeners.
And so I would love for you to maybe talk about what happened and how you got started.
(02:03):
And I have to share, I still remember the day that you walked in with Echo and she was so tiny.
And I think she had a little dress on with bare feet when she walked in and started singing.
And of course, you know, my life was changed forever in that moment.
I was like, okay, this kid has something special.
But yeah, tell it in your words and how you felt maybe at the beginning and
(02:25):
what you were were doing as a parent, even at home before you got connected to me.
Sure. So we are a very musical family and we raised both of our kids.
Echo is my younger child.
They're two years apart. Both of our kids, we exposed to lots of what we considered
to be music that would expand their knowledge of music as opposed to maybe just
(02:51):
the easy stuff you can find for kids.
And we noticed with Echo, especially literally before she could talk that that
her ability to comprehend and reproduce music was above what we expected,
I guess, is the best way to put it.
She would, in baby talk, start singing songs that she would like us to put on,
(03:14):
and we'd put the music on, and she was in the right key.
And she would hear a song and know the whole song.
Again, I'm talking like nine months, 10 months, 11 months old.
So you're dealing with a baby, but there was something very special.
So we fostered that every which way we could.
And by the time she was four years old,
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I felt like we needed to maybe get some outside help because I think every parent
can relate to the concept of anyone,
but the parent sometimes is the best instructor because it takes the parenting
out of the the teaching and the child's reaction to the parent.
So we would do stuff at home, but I really started searching around in our area
(03:58):
as to what would be appropriate for the level of musicality that she was at.
And I checked out kinder music that was not going to work out.
And they had zero interest in kind of working with someone who's gifted.
And I don't want to make her sound like there's something special,
but I was dealing with ability that was well beyond kinder music.
(04:20):
I needed somebody who was willing to work with her.
So then I started checking out School of Rock studios in the area.
And they could see that she was able to reproduce like Carole King songs and
stuff like that. but they had no idea what to do with a four-year-old.
And I just, I didn't know what we were looking for, but I knew I was not finding it.
And somebody recommended your school and I walked in and I started talking to
(04:44):
you and you gave me a great tour.
And it was, I was like, okay, this looks kind of fun and cool for kids.
And the speech I was getting seemed to be, it was going to work for us,
but you'd done the speech with lots of parents and then Echo out of nowhere
started singing Andy for you, I think. Yeah, I think that's what it was.
You just stopped and looked at her and looked at me and said,
(05:06):
okay, we actually need to talk.
And I was already sold actually, because I was just looking for a place where she could be a kid.
I value the experience of childhood above anything else.
And I knew she would have fun. She'd be surrounded with nice people.
And I started to work classes with you and you offered kind of a gateway to
(05:31):
getting your kids involved professionally.
And I wasn't sure. In fact, I was pretty sure I wasn't interested in that because
I was worried about selling out of the childhood and losing the experience of.
You know, getting dirty and falling off a bike and education.
And then I met your kids who are very successful and probably the nicest,
(05:55):
most well-rounded, polite, amazing kids.
And it's easy for me to say that. And I know you don't like to brag about them,
but they're exceptionally great kids.
Anyone would go for these. And I said, okay, if they can work in the industry,
Maybe you can turn out normal, nice kids and let them follow this kind of activity.
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I'm not a soccer mom. If my kids like sports, I guess I would have been a good
sport, but I don't like sports. I like the theater. I like music.
I like creativity. And if it was just in a high school musical, great.
But you helped me figure out what it would take to not get taken advantage of,
(06:39):
know how to stay out of the way. I know what I'm talking about.
And you opened doors for both of my kids that they've had a great childhood
and they've actually had a childhood and been successful.
It's interesting that you mention some of those details because I think, and it's unfortunate,
I was just talking to someone else a few days ago about how this industry gets
(07:03):
a bad rep from the media and the news outlets,
and they love to report on all of the negative and all of the kids who end up
in places that they shouldn't.
And a lot of that is because of lack of education or lack of perspective or
lack of just sheer knowledge about how the industry works.
(07:26):
And, you know, we could get into that even as we talk today,
because I know you've been deep in the industry at all the levels,
all the highest levels. Yeah, I think.
People need to really seek out the knowledge and really learn as much as they
can about it so that they can see that the majority of the children that are
involved in the industry do it as almost as an extracurricular activity,
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like something that, okay, let's maybe dabble in this. We don't know where it's going to go.
We'll do the best that we can. A lot of times the parents do love love theater.
They love the arts. They love performance. They love music.
And I think there has to be that strong triangle, you know, between the child
who is talented enough and who also has a passion also has some grit to,
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to go through all of that. They have to go through, which we can talk about.
And the parent has to be willing to do, do the work.
And certainly you had to, and we're very good at being able to balance all of that.
You know, the, the childhood, adulthood events and activities and all of those
things to keep it fun for them so that it didn't become about booking the job,
(08:37):
which I preach all the time.
It's not about booking the job. It's about the experience and the fact that
you're getting to, for a moment, show professional people in the industry what
you can do and meet new people and learn through that process.
So let's fast forward to what happened. The girls ended up getting signed.
And I remember that they kind of jumped right to bi-coastal agent representation, correct? Correct.
(09:04):
Yeah. So if you could talk about that and how those early, you know,
the early months of that process went for you. Sure.
So my kids got to do exactly what they love to do is,
you know, get good at being on stage and getting the nerve to not be afraid
to make mistakes and just have have fun and perform.
(09:26):
You host open mics and they lived for them. They just lived for them.
And they put on some pretty funny and creative and probably outside of the box
performances and they just loved it.
And you brought in, I forget who, but it was a couple different people from
different agencies and Echo got up and did an age four chicken soup from a Carole King record.
(09:54):
Yeah, I have that album from I have the CD from I used to use it all the time in class. I love it.
Yeah, that was a huge part of our of our home music environment.
Oh, I didn't know that. She did chicken soup.
And, you know, you you told everyone he's managing expectations is 90 percent of the game.
You know, we're going to have people in. They may ask to talk to a couple of people.
(10:18):
If you get called into the city, they may, you know, say we're interested down the road.
And you you really laid out how not to get your hopes up.
And I'm great at not getting my hopes up. Like, I'm just like,
let's do something and then move on to the next.
Yeah. Which is perfect. That's how you survived.
You know what I mean? That's how you survive this business. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
(10:39):
So, yeah, we got a call the next day from you saying CSD would love to have the girls come in.
And we went in and they took Echo Bax in the office and I hear her singing.
And then they came out and said, would she be interested in doing a national tour?
And I was like wait a second probably not whoa
(11:01):
stop the train yeah because she's
like I can plug her in right now like she's perfect for this and I
said no I don't think for us personally and that's what you
have to remember what what can you do as a family but I was really hit over the
head with that one I said no I have two kids they're both
really little national tour is not where we're headed and then
they took her like she was back in the office for
(11:22):
I think over an hour and at one point
somebody came out this guy came out and was talking
to me it was one of the head people at cesd one
of the one of the c or e or s or d i'm okay sure he was like i just have to
meet the mom of the person who brought this kid in and now i know that checking
out who the parents are and you know the what kind of parent are you going to
(11:46):
be bringing on the set is half the half the battle.
So he talked with me for a couple of minutes. He's like, she's in the back singing,
happy birthday. We're having an office birthday party.
So at the end of the day, she was signed by Coastal and which,
which made life really easy for us.
I mean, we just kind of backdoored the whole thing. I feel it was great. It was a fun day.
(12:08):
But yeah, that's, it's always shocking when that happens because I know it feels
so life-changing like, Oh, like you're excited about it, but you're kind of
thinking, oh no, now what?
What's really going to happen? How is my life going to change?
But it's important to learn and understand and know all of the things that could
possibly happen, you know, so you can plan ahead and all of those kind of things.
(12:31):
And it was probably, you know, really smart of you to say, yeah,
like we're going to think about this. Like this isn't something that we're just
going to jump right into.
And I think that many parents think that they have to, and they have to remember
that your agent or your manager is working for you, your child and working with
you and your child and for their benefit as much as they work for their own
(12:52):
benefit. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And CESD has been amazing. They're just extremely supportive and they know that I,
value the ability to say no to certain auditions or opportunities that just
maybe might be great for Echo, but not good for the family as a whole.
And sometimes, you know, it is great for everyone and we figure it out.
(13:13):
Learning how to say no and yes is important, I think.
Okay. So she's now signed with Bicoastal Representation, which is the end goal
of literally everyone when they get started in this industry,
which was really exciting, probably more exciting for me than for you at that
moment, because you were so new,
you know, what I'd love for you to do, because we have a lot of listeners who,
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again, are parents who are new to this, they might just be considering it,
they might have started doing some things in their local areas.
And there are listeners not only in the US, but outside of the US.
So it would be wonderful if you could kind of describe the process that you
have to go through when you get an audition from your agent and how that kind
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of ebbs and flows or how that works,
just even from the point that you receive that, that breakdown from them,
the audition and going to the audition.
And also if you want to interject, cause now everything's self-tapes,
you know, that process and how you handle all of that with the girls.
(14:18):
Sure. So the next day after she was signed, we were at the pool doing normal things.
And I got an email saying that she had two auditions the next day in the Sydney,
which is when it actually hit me what we had done.
Because they had asked me, you know, can you get into the city?
Sure, I can get into the city. No problem.
Well, I mean, getting to the city for us is two hours door to door.
(14:42):
And it was, okay, let's just do it. I just jumped in. And I pretended I knew what I was doing.
And I read, I mean, I had taken your course. Let's start there.
I had taken your pro kids course.
And I took everything to heart. I think your course was so comprehensive on
(15:02):
what to expect and what not to do.
I was raised in a household where manners are very important.
And it's really critical that you go into a situation knowing as much as what
you shouldn't do as much as what you should do.
So with that knowledge, I just winged it. I said, okay, so we're going into the city tomorrow.
(15:23):
And I started finding studios and showing up and signing in.
Thank God for self tapes and the way things have changed because it's been life changing for us.
We kind of say for every two to 500 auditions, you might book something.
Again, managing expectations.
If you're going two hours in, spending time at an audition and two hours home,
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it was a full-time job, to say the least. We just jumped in.
I just did it. I had been planning on going to go back to teaching once my kids,
you know, once my younger child was in first grade and I talked to my husband
and we just said, all right, let's just see what happens.
Let's make the sacrifices that we have to make so that we can not look back
(16:05):
when she's older and say, oh, if only we'd done this, maybe she could have done this.
Not put expectations on her, not
look for any sort of financial gain just
did we support her and that's that's the same as what people do in sports that's
the same what people do with if you've got a child who's very good at classical
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music it's no different it's just you do everything and everything revolves
around kind of making things work.
And being spontaneous. And I'm really good at spontaneous. I'm horrible at planning.
I don't like lists. I don't like calendars. I really function well with an email
(16:47):
comes in and, okay, we drop everything tomorrow and we go do this, which is great.
That's fun. That makes it fun. That makes life fun.
Yeah. I mean, and also I don't, I see so many people, their kid gets a call
back and they're planning dog sitters. And do we have to move?
I don't plan anything unless I call, I get a call that says she's booked.
(17:10):
And I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, let's figure that out. I love that.
Yeah. Well, it's important. It's the way it needs to be.
You know, that's how we handled it too. You can't hang on every audition and
all the what ifs that go along with it because there's no way of really knowing
whether they're going to be that candidate.
(17:30):
And And we talk about this, as you know, in the course and the amount of kids
that are going up for a specific project.
And you just don't know what they're really looking for. And all the kids can
do in the room is really be themselves and do their best on that day and enjoy
those moments of getting to perform because they are getting to perform in those
moments and they're learning from it and all of that.
And what the outcome is, as we all, you know, our circles, our inner circles
(17:55):
all know, you just you forget about it and you go on to the next thing or you
go do something fun. So continue.
So you, so go on with explaining how you made this fun and all the other things
that you did for, for the girls.
So my kids learned to love New York city. Some of the casting houses were right by Eataly.
So Eataly has the most amazing gelato and they had their favorite sushi houses
(18:19):
and their first Starbucks and stuff like that.
So auditions were just an adventure and let's go do this also.
And I made sure the only pressure I put on them is know what you have to say or sing.
Look appropriate and go in and have fun and just be yourself or be the character
and don't stress over it.
(18:40):
We always had some sort of extra activity that we did.
Homework was done in the car at little travel desks. My kids,
their grades never suffered.
We were very lucky to have a school. I know it's a different story than what
you had. We have a school district that just does backflips for us. They are so wonderful.
And that's not always the case because like Echo's done, Echo did a run of Annie,
(19:03):
and that pulled her out of school for a couple months.
And she's done Trevor, which was off-Broadway, and that pulled her out of school for half a year.
And they just make it so easy. They figure out the best way to work it on their
end with the paperwork, and they support everything she does.
So that's been very helpful. Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, it doesn't always happen that way. It depends on the school.
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We had a great experience at the junior high and the experience at the high school was okay.
We had to go through the proper channels and all of that, but the middle school was more difficult.
And, you know, it all depends on the school and whether they have the understanding
or the expertise to be able to welcome you with open arms.
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Or if it's going to cause them a lot of extra work, it can become,
you know, a little bristly and a friction point for them.
So everybody's experience with school is a little bit different for sure.
Echo is, and Sophie also, they both are callback queens.
They go for an audition and they almost always get the callback,
which means they've narrowed the pool.
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And they'd like to get a better idea of whether or not your child is the right
fit for the project that they're working on.
And that's when I start managing expectations because the kids start sensing
the role and the opportunity. And.
There's a lot of disappointment and a lot of, you know, dashed dreams.
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Some of them, it's just a commercial.
But if it's Harry Potter on Broadway and your kid's a huge Harry Potter fan
and they make it to the top three, you're dealing with stress and you're dealing
with the waiting time from the audition to that one.
They didn't make any decisions for a month. And every day, the first thing she
said is, did you hear anything?
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And then they didn't want her. They chose somebody else. and
you know there's tears and you
just have to be a good parent and
do your best and I don't normally let my
kids get Dairy Queen I believe we stopped at Dairy Queen that day I know I have
been there myself with my children I have been there yeah well you know it can
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be equated to you know the kid who's auditioning for or I shouldn't call it
auditioning trying out for
the basketball team or for the cheerleading squad,
or they don't end up getting the position that they wanted because everything's relative, right?
Like, like when you have a child in the industry, it is a big deal because it, it is the industry.
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But I feel like after talking to literally hundreds and hundreds,
probably thousands of parents in the last 38 years, There's sometimes auditioning
for the school play is everything in the world to that 14-year-old.
Sophie's in the circle of kids who everyone's trying to be in that top three
(22:00):
of the class, and there's only three spots.
You can't control casting. Maybe you can control your grades a little bit better.
There's no control over casting.
You cannot control that. All you can do is let your kid know,
you know, ask them, did you go in? Did you do your best?
Where you're prepared, then that's all you can do.
(22:22):
As long as they can handle vapidness of some of it.
You do have to embrace your type. You have to embrace who you are.
You have to understand what that is.
And I think a lot of parents of talented children who are already in the industry,
they also have a skewed attitude about even you mentioned Nickelodeon or Disney
(22:46):
or any project, because the writer, if you think about the other side of the
table in the audition room,
the writer, the director, the writer wrote the story because the story came
from them, and they have created characters that they might, in their minds,
have very specific ways that they want them to appear and look.
(23:09):
I just happened to be scrolling, you know, how we all kind of blindly look at
various videos and that kind of thing.
And I found something online about Hunger Games.
And it was literally the details of what the writers described in the book.
And we all read and we all see, you know, a lot of people who follow theater
or movies, film, television, they love to read the book and then go to see the
(23:32):
show and see or watch the movie and see what the similarities are and whatever.
So they were comparing the two.
And there were so many things about the characters that were very specific in
the book that they carried into the casting.
So yeah, I mean, if you've read the book and your child is auditioning and they
are the right type, then that's exciting and wonderful, but you can't really,
(23:54):
there's no way of knowing what those people behind that table.
And certainly with research, we all try to find information out through just
Googling things to give our kids a little bit of a better chance in the room.
And obviously, a lot of acting coaches or vocal coaches will attempt to have
them sing the right song based on whatever the performance is,
(24:17):
you know, what they're looking for.
But at the end of the day, no one is going to write a song.
A story, a script, a screenplay, putting specifically your child in,
unless they're already very well known, or they're doing a spinoff and your
child's already been in a sitcom, in a series.
(24:39):
So you have to be at so much, like way at the top of the industry to have that happen.
And so with anybody who's new going in, a lot of people will say, my child's so talented.
If they could just see them, if we could just get into that audition,
they would book them. And certainly that happens.
And I know you had an experience that that happened with where Echo auditioned
(25:01):
for something and they created a character for her, correct?
Yeah. Do you want to tell everyone about that a little bit? sure so
echo was i think she was seven
years old and she auditioned for an animated series on pbs pinkalicious and
we loved those books we loved the executive producer who had created word girl
(25:24):
which was huge in our house like this was a great project something we could
really be proud of her her being a part of,
she went in, she went in and sang nothing from a chorus line. What?
Oh yeah. And like nailed it. It was so good.
And she was six or seven and they, they loved her.
(25:47):
We got to see the tapes afterwards of the other kids who booked and they sang
twinkle, twinkle little star and like the song from, and I mean,
she was singing this Broadway song and just killed it.
So she got, she made it to the final round of callbacks and I dressed her head to toe in pink.
And I had her hair, she's got red hair. I had her hair like gorgeous and whatever.
(26:09):
And she was ready for the audition prepped and everything.
And she woke up that day as sick as she could possibly be. I mean, just sick.
And she, she had no voice and she used to get, she has reactive airway.
So her throat closes up and she, when she coughed, she sounded like a seal.
(26:30):
So I'm trying to reach her agent saying, I can't bring her in.
She's really sick. And we couldn't reach her agent.
And Echo was like, I'm going in, I'm going to get this part off.
She's like, I'm getting in the bathtub and she's doing her nebulizer in the bathtub.
Of and she's like we need to take i need like i
need cold medicine so i didn't hear
(26:52):
back from her agent so i'm like okay she was kind of
patched up with the cold medicine i was just gonna we used to
mask before masking was a thing so i put it was gonna put a
mask on her and turns out my
email was going to my phone but not my computer and
vice versa so the agent is don't go in and we
showed which looked horrible oh no email so
(27:14):
they they were kind of excited to see her they're like we heard
you weren't coming but we're happy you're here
so she went and now you
had the the author of the books victoria khan and the executive producer and
they said echo we love your dress you look like pinkalicious and she said yeah
my mom made me wear this i really like black i can't stand what i'm wearing
(27:36):
and they thought that was hilarious i i didn't know that part of the story That's so cool.
It's like, I like black. And.
They asked her how she was feeling. She was like, yeah, I just took a bunch of drugs and I'm fine.
So she comes out, she tells me this. I was like, okay, so I guess she didn't
book that. That's fine, whatever.
And a month later, we got a phone call and she had made such an impact on them.
(28:00):
And they said they were not willing to pass up on the singing,
but her personality was so funny that they created a character that they were
not going to put into it, which is kind of this dark,
sarcastic character who likes black and that and
then her character they first made her a
minor character and then they made her move next door to the main character
and she was a main part of the show for a couple seasons one of a couple times
(28:24):
where she just just went off script and they loved it the other one was a checks
commercial where she made the callback and right before she went in she said
she was in a matilda phase she said i'm gonna do the whole thing in a british accent
and I went pretty sure they're
not looking for a British accent I'm doing it she went in and she brought stuffed
(28:47):
animals with her from home that she had smuggled in and she had the whole thing
in a British accent and they thought that was hilarious and then had her do
it not in a British accent and I remember leaving there and she was doing cartwheels down the hallway.
And we got in the elevator and I remember there was someone
in the elevator and I said so I had the British accent go over
(29:08):
and she was like yeah they didn't like it I said okay well
you went for it and it was the main casting
director in the elevator with us and he said they'd already loved her and I
was so chill that that's the parent that they would want to have on set too
and you know and I know parents will weed their kids out of this industry by
(29:29):
being you know mean to their kids or.
Too involved. Just let the kid be a kid.
And they loved that. And so that got her out to L&I for that,
which was an amazing experience too.
Let's fast forward to now. She's in high school. Talk about a little bit how it's going.
(29:50):
Have the audition slowed down at all because of her age?
Because we all know that that happens sometimes because they can hire 18 to 25 to play 15,
16 17 so depending on her
type is she still auditioning and how is that being balanced
with school like kind of bring us up to date to what's going on
(30:11):
now sure so first of all sophie my
older daughter is now she's super involved
in school theater she partially runs the
program she ran the play at the middle school and is
in all pay all ap courses and does not
work professionally anymore echo last year
was out for half a year doing an off-broadway run of trevor
(30:33):
and this year yes auditions have
definitely slowed down she's at a weird age like
she made it into the top four parade and then they they went older which is
you know that's the age she's at she does amazing in school she her grades are
incredible we always expected the academic heavyweight to be Sophie.
(30:58):
And Echo just kind of carries her own weight and does great.
And she's so good in school.
It's almost like a relief as a parent to know that they're doing well academically,
especially when they're so in love with the arts, because there are a lot of
kids who kind of sit in that space of being super talented in the arts.
And academically, it's a little bit of a struggle.
And so balancing that sometimes is difficult. And it's hard for kids who begin
(31:24):
at a young age doing some professional work, whether that's dabbling in it or
doing it heavily like your girls did,
for them to be able to stay with it through high school and beyond,
even if they really want to, the academics have to be there.
It's certainly a piece that has to be constant.
So congratulations on that front, honestly.
(31:44):
Thank you. And it's going to help. I mean, she's got her sights set on Carnegie
Mellon and maybe Princeton, and she's opened up those doors to herself.
So we'll see. Anyway, so she is in her high school musical right now. And.
Kind of the same way we deal with auditions. I just said, yes, go ahead.
(32:07):
And if something comes up, we'll deal with it. But the chances of booking are
always, you know, the chances of booking.
So I did not let her do the high school musical and all the other,
and she rides horses, she shows and stuff like that.
The auditions do come in. We took her out of commercial.
She took herself out of commercial auditions because the trips into the city were so much.
(32:30):
We could have gotten back into that now that everything is self-records because,
oh my gosh, self-records are just the best. Yeah.
The self-tapes are, it's magical.
They actually have opened up doors for a lot of people outside of the city areas,
outside of LA, outside of Atlanta,
outside of, you know, in the New York market, anyone and everyone can audition
(32:55):
and can get involved. It's pretty special.
Yeah. I love them. So yeah, pilot season came through and she auditioned for
a couple things, but I knew from the audition that she wasn't a good fit.
She just does her best. I said, just do your best. Look at it as practice of character acting.
Get the lights up, set the screen up. We do it. And then she goes back to her normal life.
(33:16):
I think sometimes if they have an opportunity to audition for something,
and they might not be exactly perfect for it.
And many times agents and managers will get one of their clients in or some
other clients or you into the room because they want you to be seen.
They want them to be seen by these casting directors.
And if the casting director by nature of the submission is willing to have your
(33:39):
child do the read and you do the self-tape,
there might be something coming down the road to their office or other projects
coming up that it's essential for the the agent or the manager to have you seen by that casting office.
So, you know, it's good that you're open to do that because not all parents
are. They look at breakdowns and they say, well, that's not,
(34:00):
you're not the right fit. We're not doing that one.
You know what I mean? And so I think sometimes we have to just,
I feel we have to trust our agents and managers to send us for what is appropriate
based on their goals of not just having you book something so that they can make their commission,
but also to help them curate your child's career. Yeah, absolutely.
(34:21):
It's a level of respect to the effort that the agent puts in.
Yeah, absolutely. So I have to ask you this before we go.
And I am going to ask you for your thoughts on any tips that you have.
But before I ask you that, I always tell my clients that it's important that
the kids go to the birthday party,
(34:42):
because if there's an opportunity to go to the birthday party and the social
aspect of course is important,
but if they're all going bowling, if they're all going canoeing,
if they're all going horseback riding, or as a family, you want to take an outing
and you want to go do something.
Once the child is in that space, you can put that on your resume,
(35:03):
on their resume as a special skill.
And that's important. You know, you, and you mentioned that That echo rides.
And so that's another activity that she's very serious about and trains in.
But talk about all the other things that you have done with the girls that I'm
sure their special skills list, if you wanted it to be, could be really long.
(35:26):
Yeah, I mean, they do everything. Ice skating, rollerblading,
kayaking, paddleboarding.
Day and we are just always outside doing stuff they they swim in the river and
they ride their bikes and you know they skin and they're really and they're
really comfortable with animals and,
(35:47):
Oh, yeah. Yes. So I've raised my kids as future animal lovers.
Our pets are probably first and
foremost in our house and everyone's else happiness revolves around that.
So, yeah, they're they're very comfortable with animals.
We've done animal rescue. We've raised stuff and released it.
Yeah, they're great with animals.
(36:08):
If I were allergic to animals, I'd probably get rid of the kids before the pet. Oh, no.
No, you wouldn't. Stop. Maybe.
Yeah, we do love animals. They volunteer a lot. They sing in nursing homes.
They help out with Habitat for Humanity.
(36:28):
So they're handy. They do yard work for seniors in the area. We're busy.
We travel. They're going to be able to look back when they're older and have
a gazillion stories about their childhood.
I would never sell that for anything. And it didn't happen, which is nice.
Yeah. Well, a lot of that kudos to you for being able to do that appropriately.
(36:50):
Do you know what I mean? Not everyone does. A lot of people,
you know, they're hanging on the audition and the booking and the callbacks
and all the things and wanting the child to, you know, to book for various reasons.
And that is the forefront in their mind and it doesn't need to be,
and it it shouldn't be because there's so much else to learn for your child
to learn from participating in this as an extracurricular activity.
(37:15):
It just happens to have some gravy at the end of the day if in fact they do well in it.
That breaks my heart because we do have people that we know where I don't know
what kind of memories and stories and crazy adventures some of these kids are
going going to be able to recall when they get older.
And it is in an effort to be available for that next audition.
(37:38):
And that's not how we roll. I learned that from you, though,
that that was a possibility because
we wouldn't have gotten involved if I thought I was selling them out.
So again, your kids and the way you raised your kids made me see that you can do it.
Yeah. Yeah. So this has been so great.
I'm so glad that we made this happen. I know we talked We talked about it like a while ago.
(38:00):
It was when we were, I was, yeah, it's been a while, but I'm so happy we made it work out today.
So before we close, is there any thoughts that you would like to leave with
a parent who is either in the industry now with a child or young teen,
or with someone who is thinking about starting their child in the professional space?
(38:22):
Sure so for somebody thinking of
starting their child find somebody who
you trust finding you and this is i'm obviously i'm not a commercial for you
and what you offer but i mean you're just there's nothing like you out there
and the instruction and the foundation and keeping it fun and.
(38:47):
I mean, I never in a million years would have explored anything professionally
with my kids if I had not met you.
And there are so many people out there who will lead you on and take your money.
And if you just do this, then your child's going to book.
And learning to place your trust and your money with the right person is invaluable.
(39:12):
I don't know if there are other people out there like you who do what you do.
But I mean, it was just, you made everything easy.
I trust you. And you know, I'm never afraid to say no, if we can't do something,
but when, when we do need something, I come to you.
And then for people who have kids in the industry, kind of the same advice.
There's always someone out there who's willing to take your money and promise
(39:35):
you things that they can't promise you.
You have to find the right person that you trust, someone who's going to lead
you in directions that build skill and set you up for the success and the lack
of success that comes along with this. That's wonderful.
Yeah. I love that last statement, the success and the lack of the same,
(39:56):
depending on how it goes. And you have to enjoy the process of it.
You started out by saying you love theater and you love the arts,
and I know your family is very musical and loves music.
And And, you know, my memories of the time with my children when they were younger
in this industry are all extremely positive.
You know, it was a joy. You make fun out of everything. So, yeah, I agree.
(40:23):
I think some of the best feedback that I ever had from a director who worked
with Echo said sometimes you get the kid who's talented and sometimes you get
the kid who really wants this.
And it very rarely comes in the same package.
It's usually the parent wants it and the kid's talented or you rarely get the
(40:44):
kid who wants it and can do it. I back off.
And I don't take things seriously. And I make sure at the end of the day that
my kids can manage the disappointment and the highs because managing the highs
sometimes is way harder than managing the disappointment.
And I just want them to have fun and be happy.
(41:06):
Absolutely. That's exactly what we all want. It's so true.
It's so true. This was great getting a chance to talk to you.
And I'm so glad that you were able to share all of this.
I think I think everyone who's listening is just going to be thrilled about this information.
So if they want to follow Echo, because now she's still doing industry work,
(41:26):
how can they follow her or keep up with what she's doing?
Echo has an Instagram page. Her professional page is Echo Picone,
P-I-C-O-N-E. It's parent run.
She has some say so in it, but when you're dealing with, I don't know what her
fault, I think she's like 18,000 followers.
I'm constantly weeding people out and she's allowed to see it, but not run it.
(41:51):
And then it spills it over to her Facebook and YouTube, which I really update,
which I haven't done that in a while.
Okay. Yeah, I know. It just, it gets busy. You know, there's so much to do when
you start adding in the social media piece, it just kind of gets crazy.
You know what, before we go, I'm sorry.
Can you just talk about Trevor just a little bit, just to tell people about that project?
(42:11):
It's such a, I don't know, it's a passion play for And I think the world needs to see that.
And, you know, just mention a little bit how people can see Echo in that and
what means they have to do that. Sure.
So the Trevor Project is a suicide prevention hotline for the LGBTQ plus community.
(42:33):
And it was launched after a short film. So the hotline was the result of a short
film that follows a middle school boy who's bullied for, besides figuring out middle school,
coming to terms with the fact that he's gay and not having any role models and
not having anyone to talk to.
And being bullied over it, and he attempts suicide.
(42:56):
So development came along to, because why not make a musical out of something
like that? But, you know, that's how musicals go.
And Mark Bruni and the creators of Trevor the Musical made this fantastic,
campy, just fun musical that deals with a very serious subject and...
(43:18):
They cast really talented kids and really put kids in as opposed to 20-year-old playing kids.
And it was just magic. It was just magic. And Mark Bruni, the director,
told Echo when she auditioned, he said, don't ever let anyone tell you to dumb down that voice.
And she gets that in auditions. She just got it for Parade.
(43:40):
You need to sing less well. You need to dumb it down.
And he just let he let the kids be
as fantastic as they were and the kids and
the adults involved and the parents involved were so passionate about
the message of trevor i mean they they
during the rehearsal the kids really had a hard time with the bullying and they
(44:02):
cried their way through endless rehearsals do it without crying so anyway they
they did the play and broadway was suffering from COVID and attention was low across the board.
And eventually COVID wiped out the entire cast and the play. That was it.
And then on New Year's Eve, we got a phone call saying Disney had seen the play
(44:27):
and they wanted to film it.
We had two weeks for everyone to get healthy and made a cast recording, which was amazing.
And then they turned the whole studio, it was the same team that did Hamilton
they turned the whole studio into there were tracks with cameras and everything
after the kids being apart for two weeks they got together and they got to run
(44:48):
the show through twice and film it and that was it.
And it's on Disney+. And Echo and I just flew out to Wisconsin and met the cast and got to see it.
And they thought it was such an honor that Echo would go out to see them.
After the play, they had us talk. And I said, now maybe you do understand that the honor is ours.
(45:08):
That this message is reaching the kids it needs to reach.
We've been very lucky that Echo's worked with stuff that emotionally we really back.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That makes a huge difference because it gives
you a whole nother, I don't know, feeling about the work.
You know, it feeds your soul a little bit.
Yeah, I don't know how I'd function if Echo was doing, you know,
(45:32):
a slapstick comedy or something like that.
You know how I feel with her spreading the message that was in Trevor and the
educational message that was in Pinkalicious.
And, you know, we've been really lucky. Yeah, it's been great.
Well, congratulations to you and to her.
I'm glad Sophie found her way because she's a wonderful talent as well.
(45:52):
I think Echo is going to do great things. I think she's, I see,
for what it's worth looking at my crystal ball, I feel like she is going to do this as an adult.
She's going to be one of the few that do it as a child and continue through
and do it as an adult successfully.
So I'm excited to see where her, you know, where the journey takes her.
Wherever the journey takes her, I know she's going to be emotionally ready for the journey.
(46:19):
If the journey takes her to be a lawyer in Vermont, which is one of her dreams, then so be happy.
I feel like I've raised someone who knows how to have solid relationships and
connections and everything else is just an open door. I mean,
she has to be built someday.
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much.
(46:39):
Thank you. It was great having you, Shannon.
It's great seeing you if you'd like to follow
echo to keep up with all that she's doing follow her on instagram
at echo pecan and join me every sunday at 8 p.m eastern do you need more information
visit lbctalent.com and follow me on socials at lisa solak underscore lbc talent
(47:01):
by sharing our stories we can help other talented individuals land the career of their dreams,
If you're enjoying this information and would like more, please subscribe and
hit the like button below.
Music.
Music.
(00:06):
To Making It Happen, A Career in the Performing Arts, where we discuss how to
break into the performing arts industry for yourself or your child, teen, or young adult.
Guests include artists, creatives, casting directors,
musical directors, choreographers, agents, and managers, as well as parents
of young professional actor, singer, dancers,
all who are passionate and share my vision of helping talented individuals land
(00:30):
professional representation and have successful careers in the arts.
My name is Lisa Solek, and I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
a career in the performing arts, having helped hundreds of clients break into
the business on stage, in films, television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
(00:51):
For more information, check out all the ways that you can benefit from my courses,
my programs, my free weekly newsletter, and free guides.
Go to lbctalent.com.
My guest today is Shannon Tubman. Hi Shannon, how are you?
I'm good. Hi Lisa, good to see you. Good to see you too. I can't how long it's been.
I feel like this COVID situation really has put kind of like a set amount of time.
(01:17):
It's separated everybody for a little while, but it doesn't really feel like
that much time has gone by because I've been following Echo and following Sophie
and yourself on social media.
So I can see everything that they're doing and And I feel like we're all connected in that way.
And we follow what you're doing and all of your students and their amazing achievements.
So it's not that much of a separation.
(01:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so great. So I'm really excited to have you here because
you are a mother of two really talented girls and they got involved in the industry at such a young age.
And I think all of what you have been through and what you have experienced
your entire journey is going to be really helpful to the listeners.
And so I would love for you to maybe talk about what happened and how you got started.
(02:03):
And I have to share, I still remember the day that you walked in with Echo and she was so tiny.
And I think she had a little dress on with bare feet when she walked in and started singing.
And of course, you know, my life was changed forever in that moment.
I was like, okay, this kid has something special.
But yeah, tell it in your words and how you felt maybe at the beginning and
(02:25):
what you were were doing as a parent, even at home before you got connected to me.
Sure. So we are a very musical family and we raised both of our kids.
Echo is my younger child.
They're two years apart. Both of our kids, we exposed to lots of what we considered
to be music that would expand their knowledge of music as opposed to maybe just
(02:51):
the easy stuff you can find for kids.
And we noticed with Echo, especially literally before she could talk that that
her ability to comprehend and reproduce music was above what we expected,
I guess, is the best way to put it.
She would, in baby talk, start singing songs that she would like us to put on,
(03:14):
and we'd put the music on, and she was in the right key.
And she would hear a song and know the whole song.
Again, I'm talking like nine months, 10 months, 11 months old.
So you're dealing with a baby, but there was something very special.
So we fostered that every which way we could.
And by the time she was four years old,
(03:37):
I felt like we needed to maybe get some outside help because I think every parent
can relate to the concept of anyone,
but the parent sometimes is the best instructor because it takes the parenting
out of the the teaching and the child's reaction to the parent.
So we would do stuff at home, but I really started searching around in our area
(03:58):
as to what would be appropriate for the level of musicality that she was at.
And I checked out kinder music that was not going to work out.
And they had zero interest in kind of working with someone who's gifted.
And I don't want to make her sound like there's something special,
but I was dealing with ability that was well beyond kinder music.
(04:20):
I needed somebody who was willing to work with her.
So then I started checking out School of Rock studios in the area.
And they could see that she was able to reproduce like Carole King songs and
stuff like that. but they had no idea what to do with a four-year-old.
And I just, I didn't know what we were looking for, but I knew I was not finding it.
And somebody recommended your school and I walked in and I started talking to
(04:44):
you and you gave me a great tour.
And it was, I was like, okay, this looks kind of fun and cool for kids.
And the speech I was getting seemed to be, it was going to work for us,
but you'd done the speech with lots of parents and then Echo out of nowhere
started singing Andy for you, I think. Yeah, I think that's what it was.
You just stopped and looked at her and looked at me and said,
(05:06):
okay, we actually need to talk.
And I was already sold actually, because I was just looking for a place where she could be a kid.
I value the experience of childhood above anything else.
And I knew she would have fun. She'd be surrounded with nice people.
And I started to work classes with you and you offered kind of a gateway to
(05:31):
getting your kids involved professionally.
And I wasn't sure. In fact, I was pretty sure I wasn't interested in that because
I was worried about selling out of the childhood and losing the experience of.
You know, getting dirty and falling off a bike and education.
And then I met your kids who are very successful and probably the nicest,
(05:55):
most well-rounded, polite, amazing kids.
And it's easy for me to say that. And I know you don't like to brag about them,
but they're exceptionally great kids.
Anyone would go for these. And I said, okay, if they can work in the industry,
Maybe you can turn out normal, nice kids and let them follow this kind of activity.
(06:18):
I'm not a soccer mom. If my kids like sports, I guess I would have been a good
sport, but I don't like sports. I like the theater. I like music.
I like creativity. And if it was just in a high school musical, great.
But you helped me figure out what it would take to not get taken advantage of,
(06:39):
know how to stay out of the way. I know what I'm talking about.
And you opened doors for both of my kids that they've had a great childhood
and they've actually had a childhood and been successful.
It's interesting that you mention some of those details because I think, and it's unfortunate,
I was just talking to someone else a few days ago about how this industry gets
(07:03):
a bad rep from the media and the news outlets,
and they love to report on all of the negative and all of the kids who end up
in places that they shouldn't.
And a lot of that is because of lack of education or lack of perspective or
lack of just sheer knowledge about how the industry works.
(07:26):
And, you know, we could get into that even as we talk today,
because I know you've been deep in the industry at all the levels,
all the highest levels. Yeah, I think.
People need to really seek out the knowledge and really learn as much as they
can about it so that they can see that the majority of the children that are
involved in the industry do it as almost as an extracurricular activity,
(07:50):
like something that, okay, let's maybe dabble in this. We don't know where it's going to go.
We'll do the best that we can. A lot of times the parents do love love theater.
They love the arts. They love performance. They love music.
And I think there has to be that strong triangle, you know, between the child
who is talented enough and who also has a passion also has some grit to,
(08:14):
to go through all of that. They have to go through, which we can talk about.
And the parent has to be willing to do, do the work.
And certainly you had to, and we're very good at being able to balance all of that.
You know, the, the childhood, adulthood events and activities and all of those
things to keep it fun for them so that it didn't become about booking the job,
(08:37):
which I preach all the time.
It's not about booking the job. It's about the experience and the fact that
you're getting to, for a moment, show professional people in the industry what
you can do and meet new people and learn through that process.
So let's fast forward to what happened. The girls ended up getting signed.
And I remember that they kind of jumped right to bi-coastal agent representation, correct? Correct.
(09:04):
Yeah. So if you could talk about that and how those early, you know,
the early months of that process went for you. Sure.
So my kids got to do exactly what they love to do is,
you know, get good at being on stage and getting the nerve to not be afraid
to make mistakes and just have have fun and perform.
(09:26):
You host open mics and they lived for them. They just lived for them.
And they put on some pretty funny and creative and probably outside of the box
performances and they just loved it.
And you brought in, I forget who, but it was a couple different people from
different agencies and Echo got up and did an age four chicken soup from a Carole King record.
(09:54):
Yeah, I have that album from I have the CD from I used to use it all the time in class. I love it.
Yeah, that was a huge part of our of our home music environment.
Oh, I didn't know that. She did chicken soup.
And, you know, you you told everyone he's managing expectations is 90 percent of the game.
You know, we're going to have people in. They may ask to talk to a couple of people.
(10:18):
If you get called into the city, they may, you know, say we're interested down the road.
And you you really laid out how not to get your hopes up.
And I'm great at not getting my hopes up. Like, I'm just like,
let's do something and then move on to the next.
Yeah. Which is perfect. That's how you survived.
You know what I mean? That's how you survive this business. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
(10:39):
So, yeah, we got a call the next day from you saying CSD would love to have the girls come in.
And we went in and they took Echo Bax in the office and I hear her singing.
And then they came out and said, would she be interested in doing a national tour?
And I was like wait a second probably not whoa
(11:01):
stop the train yeah because she's
like I can plug her in right now like she's perfect for this and I
said no I don't think for us personally and that's what you
have to remember what what can you do as a family but I was really hit over the
head with that one I said no I have two kids they're both
really little national tour is not where we're headed and then
they took her like she was back in the office for
(11:22):
I think over an hour and at one point
somebody came out this guy came out and was talking
to me it was one of the head people at cesd one
of the one of the c or e or s or d i'm okay sure he was like i just have to
meet the mom of the person who brought this kid in and now i know that checking
out who the parents are and you know the what kind of parent are you going to
(11:46):
be bringing on the set is half the half the battle.
So he talked with me for a couple of minutes. He's like, she's in the back singing,
happy birthday. We're having an office birthday party.
So at the end of the day, she was signed by Coastal and which,
which made life really easy for us.
I mean, we just kind of backdoored the whole thing. I feel it was great. It was a fun day.
(12:08):
But yeah, that's, it's always shocking when that happens because I know it feels
so life-changing like, Oh, like you're excited about it, but you're kind of
thinking, oh no, now what?
What's really going to happen? How is my life going to change?
But it's important to learn and understand and know all of the things that could
possibly happen, you know, so you can plan ahead and all of those kind of things.
(12:31):
And it was probably, you know, really smart of you to say, yeah,
like we're going to think about this. Like this isn't something that we're just
going to jump right into.
And I think that many parents think that they have to, and they have to remember
that your agent or your manager is working for you, your child and working with
you and your child and for their benefit as much as they work for their own
(12:52):
benefit. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And CESD has been amazing. They're just extremely supportive and they know that I,
value the ability to say no to certain auditions or opportunities that just
maybe might be great for Echo, but not good for the family as a whole.
And sometimes, you know, it is great for everyone and we figure it out.
(13:13):
Learning how to say no and yes is important, I think.
Okay. So she's now signed with Bicoastal Representation, which is the end goal
of literally everyone when they get started in this industry,
which was really exciting, probably more exciting for me than for you at that
moment, because you were so new,
you know, what I'd love for you to do, because we have a lot of listeners who,
(13:35):
again, are parents who are new to this, they might just be considering it,
they might have started doing some things in their local areas.
And there are listeners not only in the US, but outside of the US.
So it would be wonderful if you could kind of describe the process that you
have to go through when you get an audition from your agent and how that kind
(13:58):
of ebbs and flows or how that works,
just even from the point that you receive that, that breakdown from them,
the audition and going to the audition.
And also if you want to interject, cause now everything's self-tapes,
you know, that process and how you handle all of that with the girls.
(14:18):
Sure. So the next day after she was signed, we were at the pool doing normal things.
And I got an email saying that she had two auditions the next day in the Sydney,
which is when it actually hit me what we had done.
Because they had asked me, you know, can you get into the city?
Sure, I can get into the city. No problem.
Well, I mean, getting to the city for us is two hours door to door.
(14:42):
And it was, okay, let's just do it. I just jumped in. And I pretended I knew what I was doing.
And I read, I mean, I had taken your course. Let's start there.
I had taken your pro kids course.
And I took everything to heart. I think your course was so comprehensive on
(15:02):
what to expect and what not to do.
I was raised in a household where manners are very important.
And it's really critical that you go into a situation knowing as much as what
you shouldn't do as much as what you should do.
So with that knowledge, I just winged it. I said, okay, so we're going into the city tomorrow.
(15:23):
And I started finding studios and showing up and signing in.
Thank God for self tapes and the way things have changed because it's been life changing for us.
We kind of say for every two to 500 auditions, you might book something.
Again, managing expectations.
If you're going two hours in, spending time at an audition and two hours home,
(15:43):
it was a full-time job, to say the least. We just jumped in.
I just did it. I had been planning on going to go back to teaching once my kids,
you know, once my younger child was in first grade and I talked to my husband
and we just said, all right, let's just see what happens.
Let's make the sacrifices that we have to make so that we can not look back
(16:05):
when she's older and say, oh, if only we'd done this, maybe she could have done this.
Not put expectations on her, not
look for any sort of financial gain just
did we support her and that's that's the same as what people do in sports that's
the same what people do with if you've got a child who's very good at classical
(16:26):
music it's no different it's just you do everything and everything revolves
around kind of making things work.
And being spontaneous. And I'm really good at spontaneous. I'm horrible at planning.
I don't like lists. I don't like calendars. I really function well with an email
(16:47):
comes in and, okay, we drop everything tomorrow and we go do this, which is great.
That's fun. That makes it fun. That makes life fun.
Yeah. I mean, and also I don't, I see so many people, their kid gets a call
back and they're planning dog sitters. And do we have to move?
I don't plan anything unless I call, I get a call that says she's booked.
(17:10):
And I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, let's figure that out. I love that.
Yeah. Well, it's important. It's the way it needs to be.
You know, that's how we handled it too. You can't hang on every audition and
all the what ifs that go along with it because there's no way of really knowing
whether they're going to be that candidate.
(17:30):
And And we talk about this, as you know, in the course and the amount of kids
that are going up for a specific project.
And you just don't know what they're really looking for. And all the kids can
do in the room is really be themselves and do their best on that day and enjoy
those moments of getting to perform because they are getting to perform in those
moments and they're learning from it and all of that.
And what the outcome is, as we all, you know, our circles, our inner circles
(17:55):
all know, you just you forget about it and you go on to the next thing or you
go do something fun. So continue.
So you, so go on with explaining how you made this fun and all the other things
that you did for, for the girls.
So my kids learned to love New York city. Some of the casting houses were right by Eataly.
So Eataly has the most amazing gelato and they had their favorite sushi houses
(18:19):
and their first Starbucks and stuff like that.
So auditions were just an adventure and let's go do this also.
And I made sure the only pressure I put on them is know what you have to say or sing.
Look appropriate and go in and have fun and just be yourself or be the character
and don't stress over it.
(18:40):
We always had some sort of extra activity that we did.
Homework was done in the car at little travel desks. My kids,
their grades never suffered.
We were very lucky to have a school. I know it's a different story than what
you had. We have a school district that just does backflips for us. They are so wonderful.
And that's not always the case because like Echo's done, Echo did a run of Annie,
(19:03):
and that pulled her out of school for a couple months.
And she's done Trevor, which was off-Broadway, and that pulled her out of school for half a year.
And they just make it so easy. They figure out the best way to work it on their
end with the paperwork, and they support everything she does.
So that's been very helpful. Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, it doesn't always happen that way. It depends on the school.
(19:26):
We had a great experience at the junior high and the experience at the high school was okay.
We had to go through the proper channels and all of that, but the middle school was more difficult.
And, you know, it all depends on the school and whether they have the understanding
or the expertise to be able to welcome you with open arms.
(19:48):
Or if it's going to cause them a lot of extra work, it can become,
you know, a little bristly and a friction point for them.
So everybody's experience with school is a little bit different for sure.
Echo is, and Sophie also, they both are callback queens.
They go for an audition and they almost always get the callback,
which means they've narrowed the pool.
(20:10):
And they'd like to get a better idea of whether or not your child is the right
fit for the project that they're working on.
And that's when I start managing expectations because the kids start sensing
the role and the opportunity. And.
There's a lot of disappointment and a lot of, you know, dashed dreams.
(20:32):
Some of them, it's just a commercial.
But if it's Harry Potter on Broadway and your kid's a huge Harry Potter fan
and they make it to the top three, you're dealing with stress and you're dealing
with the waiting time from the audition to that one.
They didn't make any decisions for a month. And every day, the first thing she
said is, did you hear anything?
(20:53):
And then they didn't want her. They chose somebody else. and
you know there's tears and you
just have to be a good parent and
do your best and I don't normally let my
kids get Dairy Queen I believe we stopped at Dairy Queen that day I know I have
been there myself with my children I have been there yeah well you know it can
(21:16):
be equated to you know the kid who's auditioning for or I shouldn't call it
auditioning trying out for
the basketball team or for the cheerleading squad,
or they don't end up getting the position that they wanted because everything's relative, right?
Like, like when you have a child in the industry, it is a big deal because it, it is the industry.
(21:40):
But I feel like after talking to literally hundreds and hundreds,
probably thousands of parents in the last 38 years, There's sometimes auditioning
for the school play is everything in the world to that 14-year-old.
Sophie's in the circle of kids who everyone's trying to be in that top three
(22:00):
of the class, and there's only three spots.
You can't control casting. Maybe you can control your grades a little bit better.
There's no control over casting.
You cannot control that. All you can do is let your kid know,
you know, ask them, did you go in? Did you do your best?
Where you're prepared, then that's all you can do.
(22:22):
As long as they can handle vapidness of some of it.
You do have to embrace your type. You have to embrace who you are.
You have to understand what that is.
And I think a lot of parents of talented children who are already in the industry,
they also have a skewed attitude about even you mentioned Nickelodeon or Disney
(22:46):
or any project, because the writer, if you think about the other side of the
table in the audition room,
the writer, the director, the writer wrote the story because the story came
from them, and they have created characters that they might, in their minds,
have very specific ways that they want them to appear and look.
(23:09):
I just happened to be scrolling, you know, how we all kind of blindly look at
various videos and that kind of thing.
And I found something online about Hunger Games.
And it was literally the details of what the writers described in the book.
And we all read and we all see, you know, a lot of people who follow theater
or movies, film, television, they love to read the book and then go to see the
(23:32):
show and see or watch the movie and see what the similarities are and whatever.
So they were comparing the two.
And there were so many things about the characters that were very specific in
the book that they carried into the casting.
So yeah, I mean, if you've read the book and your child is auditioning and they
are the right type, then that's exciting and wonderful, but you can't really,
(23:54):
there's no way of knowing what those people behind that table.
And certainly with research, we all try to find information out through just
Googling things to give our kids a little bit of a better chance in the room.
And obviously, a lot of acting coaches or vocal coaches will attempt to have
them sing the right song based on whatever the performance is,
(24:17):
you know, what they're looking for.
But at the end of the day, no one is going to write a song.
A story, a script, a screenplay, putting specifically your child in,
unless they're already very well known, or they're doing a spinoff and your
child's already been in a sitcom, in a series.
(24:39):
So you have to be at so much, like way at the top of the industry to have that happen.
And so with anybody who's new going in, a lot of people will say, my child's so talented.
If they could just see them, if we could just get into that audition,
they would book them. And certainly that happens.
And I know you had an experience that that happened with where Echo auditioned
(25:01):
for something and they created a character for her, correct?
Yeah. Do you want to tell everyone about that a little bit? sure so
echo was i think she was seven
years old and she auditioned for an animated series on pbs pinkalicious and
we loved those books we loved the executive producer who had created word girl
(25:24):
which was huge in our house like this was a great project something we could
really be proud of her her being a part of,
she went in, she went in and sang nothing from a chorus line. What?
Oh yeah. And like nailed it. It was so good.
And she was six or seven and they, they loved her.
(25:47):
We got to see the tapes afterwards of the other kids who booked and they sang
twinkle, twinkle little star and like the song from, and I mean,
she was singing this Broadway song and just killed it.
So she got, she made it to the final round of callbacks and I dressed her head to toe in pink.
And I had her hair, she's got red hair. I had her hair like gorgeous and whatever.
(26:09):
And she was ready for the audition prepped and everything.
And she woke up that day as sick as she could possibly be. I mean, just sick.
And she, she had no voice and she used to get, she has reactive airway.
So her throat closes up and she, when she coughed, she sounded like a seal.
(26:30):
So I'm trying to reach her agent saying, I can't bring her in.
She's really sick. And we couldn't reach her agent.
And Echo was like, I'm going in, I'm going to get this part off.
She's like, I'm getting in the bathtub and she's doing her nebulizer in the bathtub.
Of and she's like we need to take i need like i
need cold medicine so i didn't hear
(26:52):
back from her agent so i'm like okay she was kind of
patched up with the cold medicine i was just gonna we used to
mask before masking was a thing so i put it was gonna put a
mask on her and turns out my
email was going to my phone but not my computer and
vice versa so the agent is don't go in and we
showed which looked horrible oh no email so
(27:14):
they they were kind of excited to see her they're like we heard
you weren't coming but we're happy you're here
so she went and now you
had the the author of the books victoria khan and the executive producer and
they said echo we love your dress you look like pinkalicious and she said yeah
my mom made me wear this i really like black i can't stand what i'm wearing
(27:36):
and they thought that was hilarious i i didn't know that part of the story That's so cool.
It's like, I like black. And.
They asked her how she was feeling. She was like, yeah, I just took a bunch of drugs and I'm fine.
So she comes out, she tells me this. I was like, okay, so I guess she didn't
book that. That's fine, whatever.
And a month later, we got a phone call and she had made such an impact on them.
(28:00):
And they said they were not willing to pass up on the singing,
but her personality was so funny that they created a character that they were
not going to put into it, which is kind of this dark,
sarcastic character who likes black and that and
then her character they first made her a
minor character and then they made her move next door to the main character
and she was a main part of the show for a couple seasons one of a couple times
(28:24):
where she just just went off script and they loved it the other one was a checks
commercial where she made the callback and right before she went in she said
she was in a matilda phase she said i'm gonna do the whole thing in a british accent
and I went pretty sure they're
not looking for a British accent I'm doing it she went in and she brought stuffed
(28:47):
animals with her from home that she had smuggled in and she had the whole thing
in a British accent and they thought that was hilarious and then had her do
it not in a British accent and I remember leaving there and she was doing cartwheels down the hallway.
And we got in the elevator and I remember there was someone
in the elevator and I said so I had the British accent go over
(29:08):
and she was like yeah they didn't like it I said okay well
you went for it and it was the main casting
director in the elevator with us and he said they'd already loved her and I
was so chill that that's the parent that they would want to have on set too
and you know and I know parents will weed their kids out of this industry by
(29:29):
being you know mean to their kids or.
Too involved. Just let the kid be a kid.
And they loved that. And so that got her out to L&I for that,
which was an amazing experience too.
Let's fast forward to now. She's in high school. Talk about a little bit how it's going.
(29:50):
Have the audition slowed down at all because of her age?
Because we all know that that happens sometimes because they can hire 18 to 25 to play 15,
16 17 so depending on her
type is she still auditioning and how is that being balanced
with school like kind of bring us up to date to what's going on
(30:11):
now sure so first of all sophie my
older daughter is now she's super involved
in school theater she partially runs the
program she ran the play at the middle school and is
in all pay all ap courses and does not
work professionally anymore echo last year
was out for half a year doing an off-broadway run of trevor
(30:33):
and this year yes auditions have
definitely slowed down she's at a weird age like
she made it into the top four parade and then they they went older which is
you know that's the age she's at she does amazing in school she her grades are
incredible we always expected the academic heavyweight to be Sophie.
(30:58):
And Echo just kind of carries her own weight and does great.
And she's so good in school.
It's almost like a relief as a parent to know that they're doing well academically,
especially when they're so in love with the arts, because there are a lot of
kids who kind of sit in that space of being super talented in the arts.
And academically, it's a little bit of a struggle.
And so balancing that sometimes is difficult. And it's hard for kids who begin
(31:24):
at a young age doing some professional work, whether that's dabbling in it or
doing it heavily like your girls did,
for them to be able to stay with it through high school and beyond,
even if they really want to, the academics have to be there.
It's certainly a piece that has to be constant.
So congratulations on that front, honestly.
(31:44):
Thank you. And it's going to help. I mean, she's got her sights set on Carnegie
Mellon and maybe Princeton, and she's opened up those doors to herself.
So we'll see. Anyway, so she is in her high school musical right now. And.
Kind of the same way we deal with auditions. I just said, yes, go ahead.
(32:07):
And if something comes up, we'll deal with it. But the chances of booking are
always, you know, the chances of booking.
So I did not let her do the high school musical and all the other,
and she rides horses, she shows and stuff like that.
The auditions do come in. We took her out of commercial.
She took herself out of commercial auditions because the trips into the city were so much.
(32:30):
We could have gotten back into that now that everything is self-records because,
oh my gosh, self-records are just the best. Yeah.
The self-tapes are, it's magical.
They actually have opened up doors for a lot of people outside of the city areas,
outside of LA, outside of Atlanta,
outside of, you know, in the New York market, anyone and everyone can audition
(32:55):
and can get involved. It's pretty special.
Yeah. I love them. So yeah, pilot season came through and she auditioned for
a couple things, but I knew from the audition that she wasn't a good fit.
She just does her best. I said, just do your best. Look at it as practice of character acting.
Get the lights up, set the screen up. We do it. And then she goes back to her normal life.
(33:16):
I think sometimes if they have an opportunity to audition for something,
and they might not be exactly perfect for it.
And many times agents and managers will get one of their clients in or some
other clients or you into the room because they want you to be seen.
They want them to be seen by these casting directors.
And if the casting director by nature of the submission is willing to have your
(33:39):
child do the read and you do the self-tape,
there might be something coming down the road to their office or other projects
coming up that it's essential for the the agent or the manager to have you seen by that casting office.
So, you know, it's good that you're open to do that because not all parents
are. They look at breakdowns and they say, well, that's not,
(34:00):
you're not the right fit. We're not doing that one.
You know what I mean? And so I think sometimes we have to just,
I feel we have to trust our agents and managers to send us for what is appropriate
based on their goals of not just having you book something so that they can make their commission,
but also to help them curate your child's career. Yeah, absolutely.
(34:21):
It's a level of respect to the effort that the agent puts in.
Yeah, absolutely. So I have to ask you this before we go.
And I am going to ask you for your thoughts on any tips that you have.
But before I ask you that, I always tell my clients that it's important that
the kids go to the birthday party,
(34:42):
because if there's an opportunity to go to the birthday party and the social
aspect of course is important,
but if they're all going bowling, if they're all going canoeing,
if they're all going horseback riding, or as a family, you want to take an outing
and you want to go do something.
Once the child is in that space, you can put that on your resume,
(35:03):
on their resume as a special skill.
And that's important. You know, you, and you mentioned that That echo rides.
And so that's another activity that she's very serious about and trains in.
But talk about all the other things that you have done with the girls that I'm
sure their special skills list, if you wanted it to be, could be really long.
(35:26):
Yeah, I mean, they do everything. Ice skating, rollerblading,
kayaking, paddleboarding.
Day and we are just always outside doing stuff they they swim in the river and
they ride their bikes and you know they skin and they're really and they're
really comfortable with animals and,
(35:47):
Oh, yeah. Yes. So I've raised my kids as future animal lovers.
Our pets are probably first and
foremost in our house and everyone's else happiness revolves around that.
So, yeah, they're they're very comfortable with animals.
We've done animal rescue. We've raised stuff and released it.
Yeah, they're great with animals.
(36:08):
If I were allergic to animals, I'd probably get rid of the kids before the pet. Oh, no.
No, you wouldn't. Stop. Maybe.
Yeah, we do love animals. They volunteer a lot. They sing in nursing homes.
They help out with Habitat for Humanity.
(36:28):
So they're handy. They do yard work for seniors in the area. We're busy.
We travel. They're going to be able to look back when they're older and have
a gazillion stories about their childhood.
I would never sell that for anything. And it didn't happen, which is nice.
Yeah. Well, a lot of that kudos to you for being able to do that appropriately.
(36:50):
Do you know what I mean? Not everyone does. A lot of people,
you know, they're hanging on the audition and the booking and the callbacks
and all the things and wanting the child to, you know, to book for various reasons.
And that is the forefront in their mind and it doesn't need to be,
and it it shouldn't be because there's so much else to learn for your child
to learn from participating in this as an extracurricular activity.
(37:15):
It just happens to have some gravy at the end of the day if in fact they do well in it.
That breaks my heart because we do have people that we know where I don't know
what kind of memories and stories and crazy adventures some of these kids are
going going to be able to recall when they get older.
And it is in an effort to be available for that next audition.
(37:38):
And that's not how we roll. I learned that from you, though,
that that was a possibility because
we wouldn't have gotten involved if I thought I was selling them out.
So again, your kids and the way you raised your kids made me see that you can do it.
Yeah. Yeah. So this has been so great.
I'm so glad that we made this happen. I know we talked We talked about it like a while ago.
(38:00):
It was when we were, I was, yeah, it's been a while, but I'm so happy we made it work out today.
So before we close, is there any thoughts that you would like to leave with
a parent who is either in the industry now with a child or young teen,
or with someone who is thinking about starting their child in the professional space?
(38:22):
Sure so for somebody thinking of
starting their child find somebody who
you trust finding you and this is i'm obviously i'm not a commercial for you
and what you offer but i mean you're just there's nothing like you out there
and the instruction and the foundation and keeping it fun and.
(38:47):
I mean, I never in a million years would have explored anything professionally
with my kids if I had not met you.
And there are so many people out there who will lead you on and take your money.
And if you just do this, then your child's going to book.
And learning to place your trust and your money with the right person is invaluable.
(39:12):
I don't know if there are other people out there like you who do what you do.
But I mean, it was just, you made everything easy.
I trust you. And you know, I'm never afraid to say no, if we can't do something,
but when, when we do need something, I come to you.
And then for people who have kids in the industry, kind of the same advice.
There's always someone out there who's willing to take your money and promise
(39:35):
you things that they can't promise you.
You have to find the right person that you trust, someone who's going to lead
you in directions that build skill and set you up for the success and the lack
of success that comes along with this. That's wonderful.
Yeah. I love that last statement, the success and the lack of the same,
(39:56):
depending on how it goes. And you have to enjoy the process of it.
You started out by saying you love theater and you love the arts,
and I know your family is very musical and loves music.
And And, you know, my memories of the time with my children when they were younger
in this industry are all extremely positive.
You know, it was a joy. You make fun out of everything. So, yeah, I agree.
(40:23):
I think some of the best feedback that I ever had from a director who worked
with Echo said sometimes you get the kid who's talented and sometimes you get
the kid who really wants this.
And it very rarely comes in the same package.
It's usually the parent wants it and the kid's talented or you rarely get the
(40:44):
kid who wants it and can do it. I back off.
And I don't take things seriously. And I make sure at the end of the day that
my kids can manage the disappointment and the highs because managing the highs
sometimes is way harder than managing the disappointment.
And I just want them to have fun and be happy.
(41:06):
Absolutely. That's exactly what we all want. It's so true.
It's so true. This was great getting a chance to talk to you.
And I'm so glad that you were able to share all of this.
I think I think everyone who's listening is just going to be thrilled about this information.
So if they want to follow Echo, because now she's still doing industry work,
(41:26):
how can they follow her or keep up with what she's doing?
Echo has an Instagram page. Her professional page is Echo Picone,
P-I-C-O-N-E. It's parent run.
She has some say so in it, but when you're dealing with, I don't know what her
fault, I think she's like 18,000 followers.
I'm constantly weeding people out and she's allowed to see it, but not run it.
(41:51):
And then it spills it over to her Facebook and YouTube, which I really update,
which I haven't done that in a while.
Okay. Yeah, I know. It just, it gets busy. You know, there's so much to do when
you start adding in the social media piece, it just kind of gets crazy.
You know what, before we go, I'm sorry.
Can you just talk about Trevor just a little bit, just to tell people about that project?
(42:11):
It's such a, I don't know, it's a passion play for And I think the world needs to see that.
And, you know, just mention a little bit how people can see Echo in that and
what means they have to do that. Sure.
So the Trevor Project is a suicide prevention hotline for the LGBTQ plus community.
(42:33):
And it was launched after a short film. So the hotline was the result of a short
film that follows a middle school boy who's bullied for, besides figuring out middle school,
coming to terms with the fact that he's gay and not having any role models and
not having anyone to talk to.
And being bullied over it, and he attempts suicide.
(42:56):
So development came along to, because why not make a musical out of something
like that? But, you know, that's how musicals go.
And Mark Bruni and the creators of Trevor the Musical made this fantastic,
campy, just fun musical that deals with a very serious subject and...
(43:18):
They cast really talented kids and really put kids in as opposed to 20-year-old playing kids.
And it was just magic. It was just magic. And Mark Bruni, the director,
told Echo when she auditioned, he said, don't ever let anyone tell you to dumb down that voice.
And she gets that in auditions. She just got it for Parade.
(43:40):
You need to sing less well. You need to dumb it down.
And he just let he let the kids be
as fantastic as they were and the kids and
the adults involved and the parents involved were so passionate about
the message of trevor i mean they they
during the rehearsal the kids really had a hard time with the bullying and they
(44:02):
cried their way through endless rehearsals do it without crying so anyway they
they did the play and broadway was suffering from COVID and attention was low across the board.
And eventually COVID wiped out the entire cast and the play. That was it.
And then on New Year's Eve, we got a phone call saying Disney had seen the play
(44:27):
and they wanted to film it.
We had two weeks for everyone to get healthy and made a cast recording, which was amazing.
And then they turned the whole studio, it was the same team that did Hamilton
they turned the whole studio into there were tracks with cameras and everything
after the kids being apart for two weeks they got together and they got to run
(44:48):
the show through twice and film it and that was it.
And it's on Disney+. And Echo and I just flew out to Wisconsin and met the cast and got to see it.
And they thought it was such an honor that Echo would go out to see them.
After the play, they had us talk. And I said, now maybe you do understand that the honor is ours.
(45:08):
That this message is reaching the kids it needs to reach.
We've been very lucky that Echo's worked with stuff that emotionally we really back.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That makes a huge difference because it gives
you a whole nother, I don't know, feeling about the work.
You know, it feeds your soul a little bit.
Yeah, I don't know how I'd function if Echo was doing, you know,
(45:32):
a slapstick comedy or something like that.
You know how I feel with her spreading the message that was in Trevor and the
educational message that was in Pinkalicious.
And, you know, we've been really lucky. Yeah, it's been great.
Well, congratulations to you and to her.
I'm glad Sophie found her way because she's a wonderful talent as well.
(45:52):
I think Echo is going to do great things. I think she's, I see,
for what it's worth looking at my crystal ball, I feel like she is going to do this as an adult.
She's going to be one of the few that do it as a child and continue through
and do it as an adult successfully.
So I'm excited to see where her, you know, where the journey takes her.
Wherever the journey takes her, I know she's going to be emotionally ready for the journey.
(46:19):
If the journey takes her to be a lawyer in Vermont, which is one of her dreams, then so be happy.
I feel like I've raised someone who knows how to have solid relationships and
connections and everything else is just an open door. I mean,
she has to be built someday.
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much.
(46:39):
Thank you. It was great having you, Shannon.
It's great seeing you if you'd like to follow
echo to keep up with all that she's doing follow her on instagram
at echo pecan and join me every sunday at 8 p.m eastern do you need more information
visit lbctalent.com and follow me on socials at lisa solak underscore lbc talent
(47:01):
by sharing our stories we can help other talented individuals land the career of their dreams,
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