Harnessing the Natural Order of Email Marketing
Marcia Riner and Matt Treacey dive into the fascinating world where ecology meets email marketing, offering listeners insights into building resilient and profitable email marketing strategies.
Episode Highlights:
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The Ecological Perspective: Matt shares his journey from ecological science to digital marketing, illustrating how natural systems' principles can revolutionize email marketing strategies. By understanding ecological concepts like niches and carrying capacities, businesses can cultivate a thriving email ecosystem, driving growth and engagement.
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Battling Platform Risk: In a digital age where platform risks loom large, Matt emphasizes the importance of owning your audience. He provides practical advice on avoiding over-reliance on volatile platforms by nurturing a robust email list, offering a safety net against the unpredictable nature of social media and search engine algorithms.
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Email Marketing Myths Debunked: Despite rumors of its demise, email marketing remains a powerful tool. Matt debunks the myth of email's death, presenting compelling statistics to prove its vitality and effectiveness in reaching and engaging with audiences directly.
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Engagement Over Bombardment: The conversation shifts to strategies for increasing email engagement. Matt advocates for value-driven communication, advising against overwhelming audiences with high-frequency, low-value messages. Instead, he suggests focusing on delivering content that resonates, educates, and entertains, thereby fostering a healthy, engaged subscriber base.
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Segmentation and Personalization: Delving deeper into advanced strategies, Matt highlights the importance of segmentation and personalization. He explains how understanding your audience's stage in the buyer's journey allows for more targeted and effective communication, significantly enhancing the chances of conversion.
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The Power of Ownership: Marcia and Matt discuss the unparalleled advantage of email marketing in the digital marketing ecosystem. Unlike social media, where content can quickly fade into oblivion, emails remain accessible, providing a durable link between businesses and their audience. This durability ensures that messages have a lasting impact, reinforcing the importance of email as a cornerstone of any digital marketing strategy.
Key Takeaways:
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Simplicity and Evolution: Start simple and evolve your email marketing strategies based on feedback and performance. Embrace the ecological approach of gradual growth and adaptation to ensure the sustainability and effectiveness of your email campaigns.
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Ownership and Control: In an ever-changing digital landscape, owning your audience through a well-maintained email list is crucial. This not only mitigates platform risk but also provides a direct line to your audience, allowing for more personalized and impactful communication.
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Value and Engagement: The essence of successful email marketing lies in providing value. By engaging your audience with relevant, interesting, and helpful content, you build trust and loyalty, paving the way for a profitable relationship.
Listeners are encouraged to download the first three chapters of Matt's book for free at NaturalOrdersBook.com, offering a deeper dive into the ecological approach to email marketing. For more insights and actionable strategies, subscribe to the "Profit With A Plan" podcast on your favorite podcast player
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About Marcia Riner. She is a business growth strategist who helps business owners dramatically increase their revenue, profit, and the value of their company. In fact, she can show prospective clients a clear pathway to profit and an impactful ROI for working here before hiring her firm. Through her proven Profit Booster® strategies, she gets results. Marcia is the CEO of Infinite Profit® and more information can be found at 00:00:53.860
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️
(00:54):
I'm Marcia Riner, known as the profit booster. And I'm a business growth strategist. I've helped tons of small business owners to establish and implement a tangible plan that guarantees increased profitability. Guide your growth and plans for a future exit.
because building a highly ready, highly profitable and sale ready. Business creates a win-win scenario that's more money now, and a windfall when it's time to let go. And I want to share strategies that I've learned with you on today's profit with a plan. Podcast
(01:24):
but before we get started, I have something special, just for you, my podcasting audience. If you ever wanted to supercharge your business, avoid profit plateaus, operational headaches and growth roadblocks. Well, I've got a brand new profit booster playbook. Just for you.
You'll uncover 3 essential strategies and the quick way to take action on them. This is not just a single page report. It's filled with impactful strategies, actionable steps, and expert guidance to help you elevate your profits.
(01:56):
Go download this free playbook@boostingprofit.com all right. My guest to day is internationally renowned. Matt Treacey. Matt combines a background of digital marketing and ecological science.
He's he knows what it takes to build systems designed for growth.
(02:18):
His book, Natural Orders, draws from track records of generating millions of dollars in email revenue for businesses across the Us. And Australia.
Matt writes and speaks to help small businesses, online business owners to discover the natural order in their own email marketing databases, and how they can leverage them to take their business to the next level. Welcome to profit with a plan, Matt. We're excited to have you on.
(02:46):
Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure awesome, awesome. Well, we always love. We always love a man with a with an accent. So you're you're always welcome on here. So you know, you have a unique way of how you got into this business. And I know you just didn't wake up one morning and go. I'm gonna grow businesses using emails. How did you get into this space?
Matt Treacey (03:10):
Yeah, that's there's a whole story behind that. I mean, actually, when I went to the States, I got into the digital marketing side of things. I spent some time in the Bay area. But before that, as you alluded to in the Intro, yeah, my background is actually in ecological science. When I first
started doing things in marketing, I noticed some of those really superficial similarities that everyone notices between, say, like a natural system and what you see in marketing. So, for example, niches like, you have a niche in your market, and there's a niche in the environment, right or another. One that's often thrown around is the idea of a total addressable market. We often speak about that in business.
(03:50):
but, the same thing exists in what you call carrying capacity in an environmental science context. So there are some of these really superficial things. And I thought, oh, that always interesting, and that maybe gave me a little bit of an edge in the beginning, but was when I started getting into email marketing and started working with these large databases of customers that really start to see some big similarities and some big patterns, and some directly transferable ideas from ecology. To how you should best manage and grow your database over time.
(04:23):
We can get into that in a little bit more detail if you're interested.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (04:26):
Yeah, that's actually really crazy. Cause I would have never connected those dots that ecology and email marketing would have would have a connection right? But you drew the lines nicely. But you've kind of left us in the dark. So I'm gonna have to dig in a little bit and try and figure out where those lines go for those of us
that are not in that, in that sphere of of having a a space in ecology. So first of all, draw a line for me. Where put it? Put it in simple language, you'd put some funny things in there. But how do you draw line to ecology and email marketing.
Matt Treacey (05:02):
Yeah, okay, so to keep it really simple, there's there's really 2 ways. So the first thing is.
there's 2 big common mistakes that people often take when this, when they're doing email marketing. The first is by not building good engagement. So having really low opens and clicks. What this invariably leads to is poor deliverability, and really high on subscribes. So it's actually like the composition of the database is a little bit like an ecosystem that collapses in on itself.
(05:30):
Another way. Sometimes people run into this problem is through trying to make things too complex too quickly. Again, just like an ecosystem. You need to start with simple building blocks and build them on top of each other, not try and pencil out this masterpiece automation strategy from scratch right always fails. So I call that
top down failure the top down cascade to again lean on ecological analogy. But what might be more fitting for your audience is the second problem that people often run into. And this is what I call the bottom up cascade, or which is basically having the rug pulled from under your feet. And this is the other problem that people often fall into is it's
(06:12):
referred to as platform risk. So building an audience, completely relying on something like Facebook or Instagram or Amazon, or even Google.
and not investing enough time to actually grow an audience that you own you where the data is right there for you. To go back to.
That's the second mistake people make, and that's sometimes referred to as the walled gardens. So the ecolog ecological analogy lends itself to this idea of how to best build your own walled garden right? Oh, I love it! I love it. And we were just talking about how how australia is kind of a walled garden at some points, you know, as building building an island out there that you know you have and can protect.
(06:56):
Yeah, yeah, interesting. How now it's all it's now. It's all being visual for me and connecting those. But you know, I think I think one of the biggest fears business owners have today. And and what the rumors are all saying is that email is dead.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (07:11):
Do you really believe that email's dead?
Matt Treacey (07:14):
It's so crazy people. It's starting to change now. But for years I've been the guy shouting from the rooftop like, build an email list are in your audience. The writing's been on the wall for a long time. I mean some of the examples I use in my book.
for some of this platform risk stuff. Go back to 2,012. When Facebook first changed from being completely open and free to introducing ads right? And some of the people who built big audiences on there kind of bemoaning those changes and feeling that they've been duped. So I mean, it goes back a long way.
(07:46):
but even when you just look at the
the fundamental proposition for how you're meant to build a business online, and it's always been about owning your audience. It's always been about controlling the supply of attention.
And I think emails always lend itself to that. I mean, I got started in digital marketing, doing all sorts of different things as everyone does. Done a bit of traffic. I've got done a bit of like Cpc done SEO done all sorts of things. But they say, you know, you build yourself into a T-shape market. I saw email. I just thought, Well, this is clearly the best thing to spend your time on, and I mean, look.
(08:24):
I'll always talk about this. But look, it's the largest, and I see active channel of users on the Internet. I mean, it's 4.5 billion people. And compare that to Facebook or Meta's audience. Which includes Whatsapp and Instagram. That's like 3.5 billion by comparison.
a average user spending about 2 to 3 h per day in their inbox. I probably do more. You probably do more business owners. Right? But not only that's the highest engagement channel. So you compare whatever the post reach now on something like Facebook, Instagram Twitter, which is abysmally low in the single digit percentage. If you're sending an email, it has an open rate of 35 that just
(09:03):
it's yeah. It's not a day difference, right? It's also the highest Roi channel. If you use it right, I won't go into that too much. But the big thing is, it gives you direct access to your audience. You can take your offer direct to market, because that audience is right there in front of you, and you own it.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (09:17):
II think that's the biggest thing is you own it right? Nobody. Nobody can switch an algorithm or or a back of the office and shut you down, because maybe you know, you had something controversial in your in your message that went out or even just because they felt like flipping a switch. It's yours, and you own them and communicate. So I love. That's that's still. That's still the idea with it. But I think people are saying back to themselves.
(09:46):
oh, I got 20,000 emails sent in my inbox that I haven't gotten a chance to go through yet.
So you know, I'm just click, click, click, click delete, and missing them.
how do I mean? There's I guess I guess there's gotta be. There's gotta be some tools that we can use, I guess, on the deliverability to engage that audience. Better? Right? And you've got some ideas on that.
Matt Treacey (10:11):
Yeah, definitely. So I'll go into this in a bit of detail. So a lot of it comes down to copywriting and sales psychology as you'd expect. W. One of the things I say sometimes, which is sometimes seen as a bit contrarian is.
don't try to cut through. I mean, if you're in a busy email inbox, don't try to say something radically different and stand out the way people work from my experience doing email for 10 years is that people are actually looking through their environment for things that
(10:40):
confirm their existing beliefs about the world. So if they've got a problem. they're constantly looking around for things that kind of reinforce the fact that they have that problem. So you there's a classic pro quo from the copywriter, Robert Collier. He says you must enter the conversation already going on in your prospects, mind, and it kind of goes along with that right? So don't try to cut through. Don't try to stand out in a noisy world, as some people might put it. You just say things that people already agree with, and then they'll select you out from
(11:11):
the noisy environment that they're trying desperately to make sense of. So you meet people where there are. And you say things that they already agree with basically
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (11:19):
interesting. It's a contrarian approach. It's something that's not contrarian. You're going along with what's going on in their head. So very interesting. Play on words. There! But I think that that's
that's really a better way of doing it, because so many people say it'll be different. Stand out, do something right, grab their attention, hook right. That's the whole idea of how you get these things started. But I like the idea. If you're coming in with a yeah yeah, or an agreement or a validation of what they're already thinking.
(11:52):
Then they're going to be more apt to read it because they feel comfortable in that space rather than having something like you said out in left field. That's gonna maybe grab their attention. But it's not making it. They're not forcing them to a different viewpoint.
Is that what you meant?
Matt Treacey (12:08):
Absolutely. I mean, ultimately, something that's outside of my belief system is a threat right?
As grim as that as that may sound. That's just the way that we we go through the world. We want things that reconfirm our existing beliefs. And that comes down to the problems we're facing the solutions we're looking for and the products that we're potentially considering. And those 3 things actually map out what
(12:32):
the major parts of what are called the 5 stages of awareness. So you are the completely unaware about a problem. You're aware that you have a problem. You're aware of solutions to that problem.
Or you're aware of products that can help you solve that problem right? And that is the way that you need to structure your communication with email marketing. For any marketing channel. Really for your content strategy, for what you're putting out on social media. But in email marketing becomes even more important, not just because of that competitive aspect of it, but in terms of
(13:06):
taking people through a journey. That's the thing that really sets email apart from all the different channels, is, you've got this long-term narrative that you're building with people because you're there in their inbox. It's a little bit more personal already, but it's again a direct line of communication over a long period of time.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (13:26):
I like it, and it can be it can be done over over nurturing. Right? So you can come in and you can start the conversation, and you can continue the conversation. Someone used to call it a soap opera sequence right that you would leave him with a little bit of a cliffhanger, and then you'd deliver the next message that logically came along with it.
(13:47):
I'm sure there's
a couple of dozen or hundreds of of methodologies you can use in your email structure. It still goes back to the the fear of. Well.
either I'm bothering them in their email, or I'm you know, because it's it's something that sits there right? And it's something that that dings and comes in. How do you? How do you avoid that is is that by just coming in, on agreeing with them that they'll be, they'll be more welcome to having your emails come in.
Matt Treacey (14:19):
Yeah, th, there tends to be 2 schools of thought about this. Some people who are really like, okay, just increase email frequency, really high and just 3 times a day you're gonna get an email from Marcia. No right, no
and it can work. I tend to be on the lower frequency side. But what they have in common is it's all about leading with value. You're not sending it sales emails 5 times a week. And even if you are sending just twice or 3 times a week, again, you're always making sure that you're creating value with every email you send.
(14:54):
The beauty of those 5 stages of awareness that I spoke about is, if you are meeting someone where they're at, it's not about. I'll just trying to get attention and trying to like hack into people's awareness. It's not about that at all. It's about actually trying to help people solve whatever problem they're facing. So if you're coming to someone where they're at with something valuable to say to them that they're actually going to get value out of that's gonna stand out in the inbox. And that's gonna help people progress to the next stage.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (15:20):
I love that. I love it. Okay, so enough with the negative. I played a little bit of the devil's advocate and email, because I know this is on everybody's mind going.
I don't wanna bother them. But you know what
something that I love about email is is the comparative to social media. Right? I may be on there looking at cat videos, or you know, food that someone took pictures, or their travels, or family, or whatever.
(15:46):
But the sad thing about that is, it disappears so quickly.
or it gets lost in the thread of everybody else posting cat videos where an email. even if they don't see it right when you send it.
It's in their inbox, and they will get to it one way or another, some time down the line, and they will either read it or delete it, or whatever they'll do, but they'll at least
(16:12):
it'll still be there doesn't disappear, I guess, is what I'm saying.
And I love that it can stay forever. Kind of like that you know Youtube concept that you know your videos last there forever. You know your emails could last forever, too. So the the strength of
the probability of them opening it is higher than having them miss it in a thread.
Matt Treacey (16:37):
Yeah, the this ephemerality unfortunately defines full of the media around us today, and you could argue
that with email marketing, that the inbox also has that to a degree, right? Because we got so many emails coming in. It is almost like a feed. But you're right, it is there. You can go back to it. And you can reference things you previously said.
(17:00):
yeah, I completely agree. It does have a little bit more staying power than some of these other types of social media where there is just so much more noise and things are moving so much quicker.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (17:12):
Well, and I think you can adjust your email to you know gone is past, is the is the long, you know, book, that you would send in an email. You still write and shorter with a lot more white space in it. But I think, having that scan ability to your email will also get it. Ri, read. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of ideas that make your email more attractive to the audience
(17:36):
in this, you know. Quick! You got me 2 s now it's no longer sec. 7 s of of attention. You got to, you know, to get them to to read further. Right?
Yeah, definitely, II guess it all depends on your audience. So some audiences are really gonna sit down and read a 10,000 word essay that you send out once every 2 weeks.
Matt Treacey (17:55):
That can be a great way to do it like low frequency, high value, high quality, or you can pepper them with shorter
value. Packed emails every day of the week. Right? I mean, it all depends on your brand. I mean it look. The longer I'm an email, the more it comes down to brand experience and managing that brand experience and setting expectations right?
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (18:15):
I like that. So tell me, tell me how how brand experience for the user might be improved using this emails. Since we want to get people to to use emails more often and and and reference them. I think it's II personally think it's a fantastic tool to engage with our audience. But what are some of the what are some of the wins that we can do?
Matt Treacey (18:40):
Yeah, don't spam people. That's if I could really sum it up, send valuable things to people like actually make someone's
like help, someone solve a problem or provide value somewhere. I sometimes say.
entertain.
educate, enlighten, if you do one of those things every time you send an email, you're never going to have any problems. Then, you know, you can do that with a sales email
(19:05):
like, if someone's at that point where they're really like weighing up different solutions to a problem they're facing. You say, well, look.
I do have this product that can help you solve that problem. That's actually a very valuable email sent at the right time. And this comes down to another buzzword in email marketing like your segmentation and personalization. What personalization really means
(19:29):
is, you've sent something with good timing, and it's highly relevant.
And there's all sorts of different ways. You could do that. You could use some of the data you've collected about that person to create a segment of everyone who who looks like that person. And then really tailor the messaging just for them, and sent at the right time, just as they're about to open it. And that's what's only really all about.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (19:52):
I love it. So so segmentation is is a really good tool for for understanding your audience and going back to your understanding the data, right? You know that you're getting and and having on this. So if we segment them
and we, we break the email into a more personalized piece, they're gonna be more apt to open it. They're gonna be more apt to take action on it. And then they're gonna feel more engaged or connected to the sender. Us, right because we personalize that email.
(20:24):
But I think it's always hard to kind of figure out. Well, where are they on that journey? How do we know that they're at the at the peak of the Pyramid that says that they're ready to buy now, or if they're still in their journey down, trying to figure out what the solution might be for them.
is there any way through email that we can engage that
(20:45):
and get more closer to that?
Matt Treacey (20:48):
Absolutely. So either looking at engagement. So which emails people engage with or even where they've been on the site, you can track where people have been on your own owned media by using tracking pixels and cookies and sending it back into your email marketing system that you can tag people based on
where their attention has been. You can make guesses about those audiences. So talking about those 5 awareness states again, one of the first things I recommend people build when they're trying to take their email strategy to the next level, because everyone, a lot of people are sending campaigns on newsletters, so they might have caught abandonment or something set up. But
(21:25):
my typical client is, somebody comes to me and it's like, Look, we know we can be doing a lot more with email. What does that look like? One of the first things? Is often this so segment your audience down into what stage of awareness they are
based off those 5 stages I was talking about. But then, based on engagement is how you progress. People throw through those stages of awareness. So if I'm sending a whole sequence of content emails which are all about drawing the problem into your attention. So whatever the problem might be.
(21:54):
if you engage with those emails you follow links. And you're on the site. And you're looking around. And you, there's a good signals that you're actually trying to solve that problem. That's how we can graduate that conversation to the next stage. Right? So that's how you start automating your customer development. And then you can have all sorts of different stages in your database of people mapped out who are automatically getting tagged, based on their interest, based on what pages they're visiting, based on how they're interacting with different kinds of emails.
(22:22):
And from there you can make really interesting marketing decisions. You can then say, Okay, we'll send a campaign out to people who meet just this criteria and will be super personalized, super segmented.
Super, timely and relevant, rather. And that's how you're gonna get really good results of the email.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (22:38):
I love it. It's definitely starting to see like feel like an ecosystem. Right? When you understand the data. And you can connect the dots as to where they are. So for the everyday business owner, for maybe in in the smaller space that sounds like an enterprise, level direction. Is that something that can be done for for smaller companies as well that you can. You can manage that kind of data and connections.
Matt Treacey (23:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean. So I spend a lot of time hanging out with startups and going to events for startups and like larger funded startups that have quite sophisticated like data engineering operations, right? And I'm always trying to think, how can I take some of this stuff that works really well, whether they've got a big database, and they're running it through something like segment. And they've got all of this cross Channel marketing stuff. How can we really consolidate that down in a way that a small business owner can get all of
(23:38):
of the advantage out of that. And the email list is what it's all about. You don't have a sophisticated data operation, and you don't have the budget for it, and you don't have the time for it. So you don't have a crew of 25. That's managing just your emails.
You're not getting a data engineer. But the closest thing you can get is a a savvy market. Who's gonna run your email database and collect data about your audience that you own, and that you can send everything back into and build a really really valuable thing over time.
(24:06):
That's what it's all about for me. Oh, I love it! I love it so. It's possible that we can. We can still work and and
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (24:14):
and reach our customers through email with a small team and just the right information. And I'll and I think I think the key is the right architecture, right? The right plan that says, if this happens, then this happens right? And and then, you know, I mean today's automation and AI and and tools and and software and things that are available to us. With the correct architecture.
Matt Treacey (24:40):
you can have it run by just a short small number of people that are able to manage it and and still get the system going. I mean, it's a it's a one man job, really. I mean, this is why I wrote the book. I mean, the book answers the question, what
comes next after you're doing basic email. And people always fall into those same mistakes. I think the ecological analogy really helps people avoid some of that stuff, because I mean talking about finding some of those segments and sending a campaign to some dedicated segment.
(25:14):
people previously would say, Oh, well, I'm gonna build this whole big sales sequence that's gonna go out to all these different people. You don't do that. You start with simple building blocks, you test things, and then, if it works, you automate it. What do they say? Premature optimization is the root of all evil. It applies
and applies email as well. You're gonna manage it the right way. And you're right. But I mean, we have more power and technological leverage than we've ever had. But you do know how you do have to know how to use it correctly
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (25:42):
and set up those building blocks. I love that premature automation. They they had. Ii drive an electric vehicle, and they had one. I think it was last year, a year ago on the super bowl they had. They had a commercial premature electricification, or something like that, and it was just so funny. But it's common. We jump too fast.
(26:04):
We we we create something, you know, too big, too fast. And we don't know if Step one is actually working yet, you know. Hence funnel building and and things like that that we have going or automated webinars. And you know we haven't tested the webinar yet. We haven't. We haven't done the work, the foundational work.
Oh, yeah, you'll resonate with this, and your audience will as well. I mean, so much of this is just about being an entrepreneur right? And the longer I'm in this, the more I realize like don't
Matt Treacey (26:35):
think ahead too much. Sometimes it just comes down to taking action, taking simple actions. And then you connect the dots. Looking backwards. Right?
That's so true for so many things in small business entrepreneurship. And really, even your email marketing stuff. We see some of these examples of this really robust crazy automations like a spider web of all these connections, and that you can get there.
(26:58):
but it takes time. There's this thing called goals law as well. It's A complex system that works was always
before that. A simple system that worked.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (27:11):
Hmm, hmm.
Matt Treacey (27:12):
and it applies to everything when it comes to email. And II think business as well. It starts with simple building blocks.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (27:20):
I love it, that is, if that if that's not the lesson of the day right there.
you know, having having having something, I think that the key word was simple system. And then the second most important word was that worked
Matt Treacey (27:34):
right.
And and when you can take that and and put it into your hiring system, your your sales system, your marketing system. You know your communication system, everything you have. It's got to start with something very simple that works.
It's so true. Yeah. And I mean, my
(27:55):
my bent, like business-wise is really like operationally focused. I mean, sometimes people have said about email
email marketing is the plumbing of marketing. I think that's probably a good analogy. Yeah, but it's it's really like the operational pace of your whole marketing system, right? And when you look at other parts of operations like saps. That same thing applies right? You don't build the perfect process document on your first. You start as simple as possible. You start with 2 or 3 lines and you build it out over time as it needs to develop.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (28:28):
You know what? That's
I'm stuck on the plumbing thing. But yes, you're right, because here's the plumbing thing which makes total sense right people. So one of the biggest problems people come to me for is they wanna grow their revenue. And they think, Oh, I just need to make
more sales. Well, oh, let's take a step back. You need to talk to more people and have better conversations that can convert and lead to more sales, because you want more revenue, so that you can. I mean, you see how all the dots connect to it?
(29:02):
Email marketing is that plumbing that flows through the conversation
that you start when you run your ad or talk to someone or meet somebody and line at the grocery store that you can funnel them through everything that you're doing until they become a customer, and then some where you keep the customer.
(29:24):
and it's that it's that line that goes through everything.
Matt Treacey (29:28):
Goodness! You're really speaking my language. Someone who also speaks about this, and II mentioned him in the last chapter of my book is Perry Marshall, who wrote 80 20,000 marketing.
He, he says, you can break down any funnel into components of traffic conversion economics, he says the biggest mistake people make is trying to start with traffic completely under optimized. The best thing to do is to start with expanding the value of your existing customers. Once you have that system in place, then you can put traffic into that system, and you can have a better outcome. It's gonna lower your customer. Active acquisition costs, and it's gonna make you have a better business.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (30:06):
Woo, love it.
love it! There's so many gems here, the the business owners, you know. I hope, that you're listening and catching those, because
this is so true that we put the cart before the horse, or we get into business. Because and I've said this at least a thousand times, that we get into business, because we know our jam. You know, we can do our thing really well, and then we mistakenly wrap a business around it and jump to the fifth floor.
(30:34):
Well, marketing is the same way we go after these sexy ideas that you know. Tell us we can do all these things, and we're gonna have more business that comes pores in while we sleep at night. Kind of thing, and we forget about all the foundational pieces of learning how to crawl, learning how to walk, learn before we learn how to run.
Matt Treacey (30:56):
And I think we do that with email marketing as well. And I mean this whole idea of the system that sells while you sleep. I mean, that's that's always been the the Golden Fleece when it comes to email marketing. And you you can get there, but takes time and testing, and it is absolutely possible. I mean, I've built it before it does work. But you need to start
(31:23):
from the end and work towards the beginning. Oh, I love that! I love that well, and I think that it's like like you said. It's it's a whole bunch of simple systems that are combined into a a bigger system. And they all work right. And
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (31:40):
you know, start, start where you're at. just like your buyers, right? You want to meet them on the pyramid, where where they are in their buyer's journey.
and have that conversation that would logically move them to the next. What next? Level next space, right? Or kick them out. So you're not talking to them anymore, cause they didn't want you in the first place. But I think if we did this with our emails.
(32:04):
it's gonna be more personal than you can get on social media, or you can get by running ads, you know. That's usually the first part of it to bring them into your your circle or your sphere right? And and then start that communication conversation.
and what better way to do? It is on a platform that you own.
(32:26):
and that you can control.
Matt Treacey (32:28):
Yep.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (32:29):
and doesn't really cost you a penny. Except for making sure that the systems are running properly, nobody can take it away.
So it all goes back to that platform that you know that platform risk and the control that you have.
Matt Treacey (32:44):
And we have so little control anymore. And also, you know, it's a real crossing of the threshold in terms of your brand. I feel like brands these days are about creating a world that you're trying to get your potential buyers to enter into. There's a narrative about it. There's there's a whole theme about what a potential product means to them, or even a service
(33:05):
when someone gives you their email address. That's kind of there is this kind of crossing of the threshold that enters into this world that you're creating, and that's when you can really start amping up the narrative element of what your brand experience is all about. That's a whole other topic that would have a podcast and potentially. Yeah, that's right. But I mean that it can be a really powerful thing. And it's
(33:29):
people sometimes say it's a personal one on one channel. I think that
kind of gets to it a little bit, but it misses the full picture. I mean, it's all about creating this world, for people enter into an email is the best way to do that.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (33:43):
And why wouldn't you want a personal one on one channel with your ideal customer, even though you can duplicate it and automate it and multiply it and have multiple one on one conversations going at the same time. But that's what people that's what buyers want
is they want to feel like they're understood that they're that they're that they're getting value, as you mentioned, right? And that they're solving their problems. And what better way of doing it.
Matt Treacey (34:11):
That's it.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (34:14):
Great conversation, Matt. This is fantastic. I know you are, you know. You understand, so much more of the architecture and the ecosystem of emails than than most. And I think,
I think we need to know more. So where can we find out more about you and and your amazing book?
Matt Treacey (34:36):
Yeah, thank you. Look, if any of the things I've been saying are of interest, you can get 3 chapters of my book for free on my site. Naturalorders book.com
so naturalorders. book.com. Yeah. First, 3 chapters
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (34:53):
awesome. And what are we gonna get in those first 3 chapters?
Matt Treacey (34:56):
You get a bit. Get a bit of an explanation. For why take the ecological approach to email marketing, and we'll also go into some of this stuff about the walled gardens. So some of the stuff we've been talking about today. It'll include the chapter that really talks about that in depth. And it might be of interest to readers, because I really dispel some myths there around. Why you shouldn't
(35:20):
have all your traffic reliant on some of these third party sources.
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (35:25):
Hmm! Isn't that the truth? I mean? Gosh! With every every other month there's a change, right? And something gets limited or blocked, or or or
changed, or okay, yes, we go on about that one and more.
Matt Treacey (35:41):
Yeah, alright listeners. I hope you found a couple of ideas to put into your business that you will help you be more profitable. And I know that you know email marketing is not dead. You know. I was just pulling the pull in the tail to start at the conversation. But it is such a valuable
Marcia Riner | Profit Booster™️ (35:58):
place to have a conversation with your customer. They're carrying it around on their on their computer and their in their back pocket. There, it's always around. It's always there. It's it's never going away until they hit Delete and then empty their inbox right? Or their trash can. So it's always there for them.
(36:19):
And I think it's a great tool that maybe if we do it right, it will get open better
and and hit your audience more impactfully. So I encourage you to go check out Matt's book, figure out how you can make your email marketing better and engage with your audience. More appropriately.
Alright. As I mentioned. If you want to super charge your business, go download my new profit booster playbook, packed with 3 strategies, profit strategies, and actionable steps that you can use to make this your most profitable year ever go grab it for free at boosting profit.com.
(36:55):
And Matt and I would always love to hear your feedback questions. Tell us what what you are doing with email and why it is or isn't working, or if you've got an idea or just a question, hit us up in the comments, and Matt and I will respond and communicate with you that way and get things started. Maybe help you shift your thinking and boost your email marketing
(37:19):
while you're at it. Please subscribe. You don't want to miss the future podcast. As always, you can catch profit with a plan on any of your favorite podcast. Players. And we're looking forward to more great profitable information on next week's show. So until then make your plans and profit with them. Thanks so much, Matt.
Matt Treacey (37:36):
Thank you for having me