January 24, 2024 • 61 mins
In this eye-opening episode, we sit down with Christina Peters, an esteemed food photographer whose journey is as flavorful as her work. Christina shares her inspiring story, from challenging family norms to establishing her path in photography to her evolution from traditional darkroom techniques to mastering the digital age. She delves into the artistry behind capturing culinary stories, offering insights that blend technical skill with creative flair. This episode is a look behind the lens and a masterclass in turning a burning passion into a thriving career, making it a must-listen for anyone aspiring to meld art with their entrepreneurial spirit.
Dive into today's episode, where Aran shares her journey from switching a career in business and economics to becoming a renowned food stylist, author, and photographer in Seattle. Overcoming personal challenges and embracing authenticity, she discusses the art of test shooting, the impact of ChatGPT, and maintaining a personal voice in the industry. Aran also explores the future of food photography amidst evolving technology. Join us to be inspired by Aran's story, blending tradition with innovation in the culinary world.
Website: https://austinfoodguide.com/podcast
Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook
Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast
Would you like to be a guest on the show? Email us at podcast@austinfoodguide.com for more information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the 40th episode of The Savory Shot.
(00:05):
First off, a massive welcome to allof y'all amazing listeners out there.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographer andI am here in Austin, Texas.
Y'all, I can't believe that this isthe 40th episode of The Savory Shot.
(00:26):
40!
Hell yeah!
40 episodes, y'all, of deep, enchanting,and authentic adventures in this
amazing world called food photography.
I love it here, y'all!
I really do!
10 more episodes and we'llhave reached the big 5 0.
(00:49):
Holy shit!
I'm ready.
Are y'all?
I feel like once we reach that big5 0 that there needs to be some
kind of, I don't know, celebration.
Like, I gotta celebrate this.
This is a huge milestone.
So I'm gonna think aboutsome things I want to do.
I'm open to ideas.
Hit me up on what you think I shoulddo or we should do to celebrate, but
(01:12):
before I go one step further, y'allknow I can not start this show off
without expressing a heartfelt thankyou to each and every one of y'all.
To the longtime followers, my rideor dies, who've been with me since
the humble beginnings, episode one,and to the new faces joining us today
on what I like to call the Hot MessExpress, thank you for giving this
(01:38):
show a chance, your enthusiasm, yoursupport is what feels this show.
And for that, I'm eternally grateful.
There's so much work thatgoes into a show like this.
But every single time I get amessage from y'all, or a comment,
it makes everything worth it.
So thank you for being here.
(01:59):
Thank you for being partof this crazy journey.
Now it's the first month of the year.
It's a time brimming withenergy and aspirations and
the promise of new beginnings.
So how's the month treating y'all so far?
I hope you got your sightsset high and your dreams big.
(02:19):
If you are starting the new yeardoing awesome things, pushing
boundaries and setting the stage foran unforgettable year, I want you
to stand up and shout, "Hootie hooo"
Unless you're at work oryou're in a coffee shop or
in a library, don't do that.
You might get kicked out.
(02:40):
But also, if you're strugglingthis month, that's all right too.
We got you, boo.
If your big accomplishment for themonth of January is getting out
of bed, And putting your hair in aponytail or maybe putting on a bra
or I don't know checking your email.
That's cool, too.
It's month one.
Take care of you boo.
But let's bring the focus backto the here and now I want to
(03:03):
talk about this episode y'all.
Today I am beyond thrilled to introduceour first guest of the year, holy shit.
This is our first guest ofthe year and y'all I could not
have picked a better person.
(03:23):
Our guest embodies the spiritof creativity and expertise.
Y'all I will not keep youhanging for much longer.
I present.
Christina Peters.
If you're part of the food photographyworld, her name needs no introduction.
Like, you should know who she is,you should worship the ground she
(03:43):
walks on, but for those who arejust getting their feet wet, boo
things, you're in for a treat.
Christina isn't just afood photographer, y'all.
She's a storyteller, an artist.
a mentor.
Christina has been an award winningcommercial food photographer
for more than 25 years.
(04:05):
Damn, y'all talk about street cred.
She's also a blogger, best selling author.
workshop instructor, and online educator.
Y'all, she has this membership site calledFood Photography Club, and when I first
got into food photography, her site wasone of the first ones that I joined.
(04:27):
And y'all, if you haven'tseen it, go to it.
It is one of the best.
Best resources out there.
There are so many videos, somany videos teaching you how to
be a better food photographer.
But it's not just the, the, the teachingyou how to be a food photographer.
(04:51):
She also talks about the business side.
It's been around since 2017.
There are hundreds of foodphotographers in this group.
She also has a Facebook groupthat has more than 6, 000 members.
Y'all, go to it.
Check it out.
And let me tell youabout this conversation.
Oof.
(05:11):
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Y'all, we had one of thosemeaty, chunky conversations.
We talked about her moving outat age 16, which, holy shit.
I still think is insane.
Her experience as an assistantto over 35 photographers.
What?
(05:32):
And.
Why it's important for photographersto advocate for themselves.
I hope y'all are ready for an episodethat is sure to leave you inspired,
educated, and maybe, maybe justa little bit hungrier for more.
But hold on, y'all.
Hold on.
Before we dive into all of that goodness,grab your favorite snack or a cocktail.
(05:57):
It's five o'clock somewhere, or ifyou're having one of those kind of
days, maybe you need a second espresso.
Whatever you got to do, find it, finda comfy spot, and let's start the show.
(06:46):
I want to start off this interviewwith, thank you for being here.
Every time I reach out to a guest andI'm like, Gosh, I hope they say yes,
because I have nothing to offer butmy heart and lint in my pockets.
Every time someone saysyes, it's just a huge honor.
So thank you very muchfor being on the show.
Christina (07:07):
You're so welcome and thanks.
Thanks for having me here.
It's fun.
I always like doing this.
Mica (07:13):
I want to take it back to when you were a kid and being eight years
old and using your dad's camera.
I thought that was just the coolest thing.
What stands out to you aboutthose early experiences?
Christina (07:28):
Yeah, it's, it's funny because my father.
introduce me to photography so thatit would be a fun hobby for me.
Was never intended to instigatea career to start a career.
I really liked it.
It was very fun for me andand it was challenging.
(07:49):
So he let me have a dark room.
He helped me with setting up blackand white printing at home and, the
whole time I'm doing all this stuff,everything looked really, really horrible.
And so it just triggered this thechallenge of trying to figure out,
how do I get what's in my mindvisually onto a piece of paper?
(08:11):
And how do I do that?
So I really started trying to learnas much about photography as I could.
Of course, this is waybefore the internet.
We had to use the library.
Take as many photo classes asI could and stuff like that.
By the time I was a teenager, Iremember he wanted to have a serious
conversation and asked me what I wasintending on doing with my career.
(08:35):
He was thinking that this wasgoing to get me on to his train,
which was being a chemist.
When I told him I wanted to be aphotographer, he was really upset.
He was just like, okay, thatis not what I intended for you.
He wanted me to take over hisstudies at where he worked.
(08:58):
I was like what do you mean?
You're the one that introduced,I'm a photographer because
of you, like you started it.
You know, This is your fault, dude.
Mica (09:05):
This is a, this is a, a product of your success.
Christina (09:08):
Yeah.
Like I thought this is what you wanted andhe was like, no, this should be a hobby.
So I was like no, I want tobe a photographer and you
hate your corporate world.
So why would you want that for me?
And he was like, Oh.
Then he gave me the ultimatumif I wanted to be a chemist,
he would support me with that.
If I wanted to be aphotographer, I was on my own.
(09:30):
So I moved out at the age of16 and was like, okay, I'm out.
Mica (09:36):
That's terrifying.
I'm like thinking back to16 year old and I'm like.
Christina (09:41):
No, no, I, I was in a very small town Newark, Delaware.
So it was way easier at thattime to do something like this.
And it's a college town.
So I just rented an apartment onMain Street with four other girls,
and I had three waitressing jobs.
I was still in high school and, I waslike, okay, this is how you do it.
Mica (10:02):
Wow.
Was he a photographer himself?
Was photography a hobby of his?
Christina (10:09):
Oh yeah.
He took a lot of photos.
Looking back at what he shot, henever really improved his work.
My father was an arrogant man and hereally felt like no one could teach
him anything new, that kind of a thing.
And so he never took photoclasses or anything like that.
(10:29):
So very quickly, as a teenager, Isurpassed his knowledge of photography
and how to print properly and, how lensesworked and lighting and all of that.
He didn't use any strobelighting or anything like that.
So very quickly what fewconversations we had.
(10:51):
He didn't want to talk about itanymore because I knew, I think it's
because I knew more than he did andhe wasn't good at talking to people
like that, so even, even all the waythrough his life he never, ever wanted
to talk about photography with me.
Mica (11:10):
Cause it's one of those things, it's she proved me wrong, damn it.
Christina (11:15):
Yeah.
I, but he if I had a slowtime in my career, then he
was like, told you, you know.
He was, he was definitely offended.
I think his ego was bruised that Ididn't want to take over his studies.
He was shocked that I could even think ofdoing something else, like why wouldn't
(11:41):
I want to follow in his footsteps?
He was pretty famousin the chemistry world.
And he worked for a very largechemical company out here.
So he was just like, I'vecompletely offended that I didn't
want to become a chemist, but hehated the corporate structure.
He did not like where he worked.
And he talked about it every nightat the dinner table, every night.
Mica (12:03):
So like, why wouldn't he be surprised that you're like, Ooh?
Christina (12:07):
He was like this is just what you got to do.
You have to have a regular income.
You have to have something steady.
You're going to be a starving artist.
And I was like, no, there's thisthing called commercial photography.
I want to do ad work.
I'll do the fine art stuff allthe time for myself, but there's
a lot of money in advertising.
(12:27):
I was like, it's everywhere.
Again, this is before the internet, right?
So I was like, you drive down theroad, you go to a store, you are
bombarded by advertising everywhere.
People get paid to do that work.
Mica (12:40):
My mom was the same way when I decided to pursue theater
and she was like, wait, what?
I thought theater was just somethingthat you, like extracurricular, I
didn't, I didn't think you wouldactually look at it as a career choice.
But you raised me this way.
You told me to never follow anyone's path.
Follow my own path.
So why are you surprised that I'mactually following your advice?
Christina (13:04):
That's the ironic thing, right?
So my dad, his dad got him an interviewat the company where his dad worked.
And in the interview, my dad toldthe guy, I don't want to work here.
I, I want to be a chemist.
My parents are British.
(13:25):
So at that time it was common to moveto South Africa if you were a Brit.
He was like, we're going toget the, whatever out of here.
Chemistry was his ticketout of England and it was.
He worked for companies like Palmolive.
He worked for a lot of soapcompanies at that time but in a
field called gas chromatography.
A gas chromatograph is a machinethat analyzes gaseous substances
(13:47):
and it tells you what's in it.
And it was revolutionary at that time.
And he worked with one of themen that invented the machine.
Many years before that.
So that was his field of study.
It was brand new field and I was changingthe chemical world radically in a
manner that was, really very helpful foreveryone to be able to analyze a substance
(14:11):
and tell you exactly what's in it.
So yeah, so he was fascinated bythat and he was just like, this
will guarantee you a career.
I'm like, dude you have severalfriends that got laid off in their 60s.
Why would I ever consider workingfor a company that did that?
(14:32):
I'm a teenager in the 80s.
So in the 80s, all of the majorchemical companies around here
started doing some mega layoffs.
They were laying off people who hadbeen working for them for decades.
And they were in their fifties,and they were in their sixties, and
they'd never worked anywhere before.
And now they gotta scramble andfigure out how to get another job?
Mica (14:56):
Devastating.
Christina (14:57):
And I was like, ah, ah, dude, I'm not signing up for that program.
Why would you want meto even be part of that?
At the same time, my father actually waspretty sexist, but, always looking back,
he never told me I couldn't do photographyand he wanted me to be a chemist.
(15:18):
So it was like, he's actually a prettysexist person, but here he is thinking
his daughter could do it or whatever.
He never ever said the words tome that I couldn't do something.
But then he was like, all right youthink you got this all figured out?
You're on your own girl.
Mica (15:35):
It's if you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this alone.
Christina (15:38):
I'm gonna do it by yourself.
Mica (15:39):
What did your mom think about you being in photography?
Christina (15:43):
She loved it.
My mom didn't have a lot of confidence.
They're older.
They're now in their mid 80sand my father just passed at 88.
When they got married, the type ofjobs women had available to them,
especially in South Africa, whereshe was allowed to be a secretary.
They really liked hiring theBrits because of the accent.
(16:04):
My mom didn't have a lot of confidence.
My father did not allowher to go to school.
She did secretarial school.
That was acceptable.
Then when he was in South Africa, thegoal was to move to another country.
The political unrest in South Africawas really crazy when they were there.
(16:25):
They were getting in troublefor being friends with people of
other races and things like that.
They were shifting laws to whereif you were not born there and you
wanted to leave the country, youcouldn't bring any money with you.
So they were gettingready to shift the law.
So then there was this mass exodus ofall the Brits leaving South Africa.
(16:49):
So that's when dad was like, okay,we got to find another place to go.
Let's try the U.
S.
He wrote a bunch of letters toseveral companies and the chemical
company he ended up working withsponsored him to move out to the U.
S.
Dad left South Africa firstand then he went to the U.
S.
first and then mom went back toEngland for about six months.
(17:11):
After he got things set up,then she moved out to the U.
S.
And there's a lot more to that storyabout why they were away from each other
for that long, but we won't go into that.
Mica (17:21):
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I, I love that your momwas like, fully on board.
Super supportive.
Your mom was like your cheerleader andyour supporter and go girl, go, go, go.
You could do this.
You could do this.
I believe in you.
That's really cool.
Christina (17:39):
Yeah, yeah, she, she always was and and, and still is, of course.
Mica (17:44):
When you talked about how you would like, wait like a week or two
for your film to come in the mail.
I tell this to my niecesand nephew all the time.
I'm like, you have no idea how blessedyou are right now because you could take
a picture and see the instant results,but for us like we had to go wait in line.
(18:04):
Turn in our film and then wait.
And then go pick it up and thenwe'd find out if whether or
not this thing was in focus.
Christina (18:14):
And that's the thing you had to make sure it was in focus.
You know in days of film,it was really stressful.
Geez, I was thinking back onthis earlier my film bill.
I use Sammy's camerain Los Angeles, right?
So all my film would becoming from Sammy's camera.
An average year would be 20 or30 thousand dollars in film.
(18:34):
I shot food, which means, wedon't really burn a lot of frames.
If you were shooting fashion or people,your film bill at the end of the
year, would have been at least I don'tknow fifty, hundred thousand dollars,
And that was just the film part.
We needed Polaroid.
That was how we previsualized what we were doing.
(18:55):
Was shooting Polaroid.
The first ten years wasalways large format.
So four by five film.
And geez, some months just myPolaroid bill was like 5,000
dollars just for Polaroid.
But you bill it out, when you'redoing your estimates, you knew,
okay for each shot that I'm beinghired to do, just the film cost,
(19:16):
I'm billing them out at 300 dollars.
Just for one shot.
So that's covering the film, the Polaroid,and the processing, because I would
usually run like five sheets of film.
on a shot.
You shoot two normals, you bracket, right?
You shoot two normals and then youshoot two overs and two unders.
And then you run one normal at the lab.
We all had our own little formulas, right?
So I was shooting Fujin Velvia.
(19:38):
Quite a bit for food.
It was really a beautiful, warm film.
You underexpose a weebit and then you push it.
So like that, like in days of film,your style and technique came from
how you ran your film, you know howyou processed it, what film you used.
What lab you used and all of that.
So I had my little formula down and Iwouldn't run everything if I didn't need
(20:00):
to, so that's how I would keep costs down.
So if I nailed it on my normalexposure shot, I might run the other
one as a backup, because again, weonly have that one piece of film.
So you need a backup.
It was just a whole notherwhole nother world of shooting.
And you had to have multiplesets up at the same time.
While you're running film on that set,now we work on set number two, and
(20:23):
then as we're working on that one, theassistant goes out and picks up the
film for set number one because youhad to rush it, which means the film's
going to be done in an hour and a half.
Your whole day is scheduling aroundrunning your film, getting your first
sheets back to double check your exposure.
And then depending on whathappened with that shot your
(20:45):
client is there with you, right?
There's no virtual shooting at all.
You go to the light table.
We're looking at the film Andthen it's okay, yeah, I think
we're, we're happy with this.
Now we're going to strike thisand move on to the, to the next.
This is a slow process.
It was very, it was a very slow process.
Mica (21:06):
Such a different world back then with, with digital,
it's like spray and pray.
That's what I call it.
Christina (21:13):
Exactly.
Mica (21:15):
Spray
Christina (21:16):
know.
Mica (21:16):
and pray.
And with, film, it's like you have,this finite amount of shots and so
you really have to be intentionalwith everything that you're doing.
Christina (21:26):
And imagine every time you press the shutter,
that just cost you money, man.
Every frame that you shootis costing you money.
Mica (21:39):
Oh my gosh so you better be sure.
Christina (21:41):
You better be sure about it.
And if someone's paying you to dothat, that pressure is ten times.
And, stuff happens, right?
I remember running film at the laband the power went out at the lab.
I assisted a lot and I learned thesetechniques of running and, and production.
(22:05):
It's really production iswhat we're talking about.
That's why you never, ever runall your film at the same time.
Cause it's called the soup.
Where the film is going into themachine, it's called the soup.
And so they're like, dude, if your filmgets stuck in the soup, then it's trashed.
Mica (22:21):
No, oh no, that would be the worst.
Christina (22:25):
And I've had, I've had that happen.
I can't even tell you how manytimes and it's not the lab's fault.
They just had a power failure ora machine broke down, and they
have to hand crank stuff out.
The machines are automated, but thenwhen they have a power failure, they
can literally hand crank, hand turnthe machines to get the film out of it.
(22:46):
But it's not going to be consistent.
You're going to have chemicalmarks on it and stuff like that.
So that's why I really lovedshooting sheet film and you never
ran it all at the same time.
So you had backups,backups, backups, backups.
I never lost film on a job.
Ever.
Even though machines went downor one machine even ate it.
(23:07):
It was like at the bottom of themachine and they couldn't get it out.
You have to, have to,have to have your backups.
I remember, when digital was just firstcoming on, there are some friends of
mine, they were product shooters andthey were doing this type of lifestyle
product photography with people.
They had shot almost the full day withoutdoing a backup and they lost everything.
(23:32):
I remember they were reaching out tofellow FOTOGs like, Hey, I've heard
of this thing called data rescue.
Do you know of any companies that do that?
Again, this is like beginningof digital era, right?
So there was a company in SanFrancisco that could try to pull
data off of drives, but they chargedlike 20,000 dollars to do it.
(23:56):
Oh my God.
And this is a big advertisingjob that the people were paid
considerably, so that's what they did.
Also, we had insurance forthese things back then.
What we still do now, you should now.
If something goes wrong with yourgear or whatever, and you lose
data you should have insuranceto protect you against that.
(24:16):
You might have to do a reshoot forfree, it's not the client's fault.
If your gear goes down that your clientshouldn't have to pay for that and stuff.
So I totally remember my friendstelling me that story and I was
like, okay, I used to back up atthe end of every shot digitally.
So I, I changed it to where just Igot a computer software was brand new
(24:42):
at the time where it was constantlybacking up onto a hard drive that
was sitting on the desk, right?
This is way before cloudcomputing was even happening.
Everything we did had to be on CDs ordrives, hard drives, and stuff like that.
I'm still carting around archives ofthis stuff because it's like, it's client
(25:04):
work and I don't want to throw it out.
So I've, I just carted around.
It's up in storage.
Then it was a big deal when,when DVDs came out, we could burn
on DVDs and get more data onto.
So instead of a job being like fiveCDs, we could burn it on a DVD.
Come on.
Mica (25:21):
Yeah, oh my gosh it's, it's crazy to think of what life was like
before digital and what it's like now.
Christina (25:28):
Yeah, it's amazing now.
That was a serious challengebecause in the beginning we did
not know the files that we werewriting digitally at that time.
We did not know if theywere future proofed.
We had no idea that we would beable to read them in the future,
(25:50):
like many, many years from now.
That's when they came out with thedigital, the DNG, the digital negative.
And that is supposed to befuture proof, industry standard.
Everybody should be ableto open up a DNG file.
And because it's a digital negative,you have access to that raw data, right?
(26:12):
Each camera has their ownraw file formula, right?
So that's not future proofed probably.
But I remember my retouchers, wewould have these conversations and they
would be like, Hey CP, I know you'regiving me TIFF files, but I want us
to work with DNGs, digital negatives.
(26:34):
Anything can open it, and I wasshooting with a Phase One Digital Back.
So that was creating itsown type of raw file format.
And so yeah, we were basically workingin DNGs when I was working with certain
retouchers just because of that.
Mica (26:48):
One thing I loved learning about you is, how you assisted so many different
photographers and like different niches.
You said that in the two yearsthat you were assisting, you
assisted over 35 photographers.
And I was like what?
Christina (27:03):
Oh yeah.
And many more very regularly.
Not every photographer is created equallyand not every photographer is nice.
Hence the 35.
Mica (27:16):
What stood out?
Was there a specific shootthat stood out to you?
What do you remember about that shoot?
Christina (27:23):
Sticking out to me as far as carving my career?
Or?
Mica (27:27):
Had a assisting that like had an impact on you as a photographer?
Christina (27:32):
There's so many.
What I chose to do was work withphotographers who work I technically
admired and they did big production.
Cause going to school, youdon't learn how to do production
when you're in school.
I wanted to just learn all ofthe back part, the behind the
scenes of running a photo shoot.
(27:53):
I still feel to this day, the only way youcan do that is by assisting somebody else.
You're not going to getthis off of YouTube.
British people tend to, my parents,I'll just say so I'm not offending a
lot of people who are Brits, but, myBritish parents never spoke their mind.
They never were straight withtheir feelings and you had
to read between the lines.
(28:14):
So I am excellent at readingpeople because of how these two
people were with each other.
It drove me nuts.
It was actually nice getting out ofthe house at such a young age to not
have to walk on eggshells every day.
Let's see who's pissedoff at each other today.
It was just exhausting.
Mica (28:31):
Analyze the sentences.
I'm like, okay, you saidthat, but did you mean that?
Christina (28:35):
Exactly.
And we're like, I knowyou didn't mean that.
I know you mean just the oppositebecause of the tone you just used.
So it really taught me how toread people very, very well.
So moving forward to when I wasassisting, let's just say that some
of the photographers I worked forwere not as aware as maybe they
(28:55):
should have been with their clients.
I'm like very empathic.
I pick up when someone's reallyangry or upset because that was
my survival mechanism as a kid.
I had to really read the room.
I can just walk into a room and Iknow exactly what's going on in there.
So the photographer would do or saysomething and the client would be
(29:19):
enraged, and didn't even know how to.
And I'd be like, Oh my God, how is thephotographer not picking up on this?
Then I would sort of like goover to the photographer and
just be like, Hey, so yeah.
Remember when you said that saying?
Maybe there was a different way thatthey were thinking about it, too.
So I became like a little translator,I guess is what I'm getting at.
(29:41):
Especially if the photographer actuallywas a good person, but they just weren't
too aware of things in their environment.
So I became the interpreter.
Some photographers, bless theirhearts, they're terribly shy and
they're not good with people.
Again, this is in the era where everythinghappened in studio, and if it didn't,
(30:02):
then there was like phone calls andconversations that had to happen.
Then things inevitably would haveto get reshot if they now see the
image and they're like, Oh my God,that's totally not what I had in mind.
So things like that.
When I was assisting, I picked upso many things with how to work
with the client, how to run astudio, how to treat your crew.
(30:26):
All these things that makesa business successful.
Let's even just takephotography out of it, right?
I waitressed a lot when I had to move out.
I worked in three differentrestaurants pretty much all the time.
And I also worked in a one hour film lab.
And so just witnessing interactionswith management, with staff, with
(30:46):
the customers, there's a greatway to do business and there's
really bad ways to do a business.
Keeping all of that in mind so that whena photographer is being asked by a client
to do something extra and then thatphotographer isn't good at vocalizing
(31:07):
yo, man, that wasn't on our contract.
We didn't agree to that.
They can't be straight about it.
And now they're angry but they're doingit, but they shouldn't be doing it.
They should be charging more for it.
Again, days of film,very expensive mistake.
So I'm like, just have a conversation.
What the?
And now you just set a precedent withthat client and they do it again.
(31:29):
Cause you're letting them.
You have to be your own advocateand you have to warn the client.
Listen, it's like I have been artdirected horribly, meaning the
art direction choice was awful.
Not good colors.
They had something in their mind that theywanted and it's not going to agree with
(31:51):
your aesthetic and it might not look good.
Sadly, a lot of jobs I shot that werecompletely controlled and creative
directed or art directed to somethingI would never show in my portfolio.
I'm showing them my portfolio, this styleand look, and then they're art directing
(32:12):
me to put down a flaming yellow tableclothwith some brown food that looks god awful.
Things like that.
And then sometimes when I get asked to dosomething that I I personally don't agree
with, with aesthetically, then I will askthem if I could do my version as well.
(32:34):
And I don't charge themextra for that shot up front.
The understanding is, and this is writteninto the contract, if the photographer
wants to do a variation for herselfit's not going to charge, not going
to cost you extra unless you want touse that in replace of what we shot.
You're paying me to dofour or five images.
(32:55):
Let's say we do five imagesand then I do a variation of
one and you like that better.
And oftentimes that's reallywhat would end up happening.
Then they can take my variationas part of that final mix.
And I make sure we don't go intoovertime when I am suggesting a
variation or a change on set that wasn'tnecessarily art directed that way.
(33:17):
So you really have to read the roomand figure out they, they say it's
a collaboration, but how much ofit It really is a collaboration.
Do they just want me tobe the trigger person?
They just want to literally noodlethat spoon on set 900 times and
I'm taking pictures and then I gotto shut this down because we need
(33:41):
to start working on our next shot.
Mica (33:43):
It's look, we've gotten 300 pictures of this spaghetti shot.
Can we?
Christina (33:47):
Yeah.
We've now covered this shotwith the spoon in 900 locations.
I think we got it.
I think it's safe to move on now.
You're going to have to commit,move it on, and I will, I will
joke around like that too on set.
Mica (34:09):
You mentioned earlier that that like assisting helped you see the back
end, like how photography businesses arerun and that, even today, that's really
the best way to get to know the business.
For photographers who are sovery new what's the best way
to approach a photographer?
(34:32):
Should they learn a few things first andthen start assisting, or should they just
dive right in and let the photographerknow, Hey, I'm really wet behind the
ears, but I'm a, I'm a fast learner.
I will pick up, just give me a chance.
Christina (34:47):
There's many different ways to go about this.
And depending on your level ofexpertise with equipment you got to
look at this as a business as well.
An assisting business.
You got to like put it out there.
I can't stand it when someonereaches out to me and they're
like, let me shadow you for a day.
That's offensive.
(35:08):
That means you don't want to do anything.
You want to see what I'm doing.
Mica (35:11):
You want to see what I'm doing and you want to copy what I'm doing.
Christina (35:14):
And you want to copy what I'm doing?
No.
I've never let anyone shadow me.
When I'm working bigger productionsand we need someone, so you have your
first assistant, second assistant,third assistant, and then you
have PAs, production assistants.
That's like the hierarchy.
The first assistant is like your right,right hand man, second assistant,
they know almost as much as the first.
(35:36):
Third assistant, they're still green,they're still learning, but they have
been on set, they have experience.
And then we have production assistants.
If you aren't a part of an organizationlike an APA or an ASMP or PPA, if you
can't find anything like that in yourarea, then you're going to be trying to
find photographers who would use you asa production assistant type of person
(36:01):
where you don't have responsibility.
You're not gonna be picking up camerasand shooting second shooting on set.
You're not gonna bedoing anything like that.
But I would really suggest to startgoing through a photo organization
because photo organizations, they'rethere to help everybody at every level.
They're going to have programslike the APA has an assisting
(36:23):
program in Los Angeles.
They have an assisting bootcamp.
It's, it was, it's phenomenal.
I was on one of the panels thereand it was like a two day boot camp.
Teaching photographers how to assist.
When I get people who are emailing measking to assist me, and then I go to
their website, there's no informationabout them being an assistant.
(36:47):
They want to be a food shooter.
So I know immediately that thisperson just wants to see what I'm
doing and working on, which is fine.
I get that.
But if you want to assist someone,you better have information on your
website about being an assistant.
What I suggest is just to set upa landing page with free software
(37:07):
about you being an assistant.
Photographers want to know what equipmentyou're familiar with, the brands.
We also need to know whatlevel of equipment do you know?
Do you know the pro gear or not?
Don't pretend.
This is not a fake it tillyou make it thing for sure.
Just be totally straight and honestabout your experience, so if you
are familiar with digital backs andlarge format systems, medium format
(37:30):
systems, you're going to have a hugeadvantage over those that don't.
Depending on the type of photographerthat you're approaching like if there's
somebody like me that we're using mediumformat systems we're using pretty high
end strobe equipment and things like that.
We need people who know how touse that gear especially with
the high end strobe packs.
That's a lot of wattage and if you use itincorrectly, you could blow your hand off.
Mica (37:52):
Oh, my gosh.
Christina (37:53):
Can't have that happen.
There's safety things on setwhen you're dealing with that
type of equipment for sure.
Yeah, just look at it as a business.
What I did for myself was Iknew I wanted to be a shooter.
I didn't want to become aprofessional photo assistant.
When I was working on set with severalbigger photographers that had many
(38:14):
assistants, I would approach thefreelance first assistants and say,
Hey, I really like working with you.
If you ever need a second ora third on any of your other
jobs, please let me know.
I would love that because thephotographers, when our main people
can't work for us, we ask them tofind someone to replace themselves.
(38:35):
Like we ask for referrals.
Once you get into that worldof photo assisting, you're
going to get referred out.
The other way that we findreally good assistants is
through equipment rental houses.
If you wanted to learn, seriously,you want to learn a lot, you work
for an equipment rental house fora few months, you're going to learn
(38:56):
about every piece of equipment.
That information will staywith you the rest of your life.
I never worked at a at anequipment rental house.
But I had several of my photoassistant friends that did.
We would literally talk about what newequipment came in, weird stuff that would
happen with some of the packs on set.
It was great.
I learned so much from my friendsthat actually worked at rental houses.
(39:18):
So yeah, I hope thatsort of broke it down.
If you really have never assistedbefore, approach an organization,
see what they have to offer.
And there's always photographers whoare members of these organizations who
are very supportive of new photographersand they have like a rotating program
(39:39):
in their studio every year of newproduction assistants and stuff like that.
I even had a few assistants in LA.
Because I was renting my friend'sphoto studio because mine wasn't
big enough, and he had basically apaid intern in his studio, but she
was interested in shooting food.
(40:00):
So when I was renting his space, myfriend Anthony, so Anthony's like,
Hey, I have a young photographer, from,cause he was teaching classes as well.
He was like, I got a young photographer.
She's going to be an intern.
Are you cool with herbeing there on your day?
It'd be really lovely for her tosee how a food shoot goes cause
she's never seen one before.
(40:21):
She was awesome.
And she was really goodalready as an assistant.
So then I started hiring her as a secondor third assistant on future jobs.
Just from that oneconnection from Anthony.
Mica (40:34):
Wow.
It really is such a small world.
Especially in Austin.
And I've had photographers or people whowanted to assist me reach out reach out
to me And they're like if you ever needyou know, I'll do it for free and I'm
like, ah First of all, I pay my crews so.
Christina (40:53):
So many photographers took advantage of the free internship.
And my friend, Anthony always paidhis people just to get that clear.
I remember when I was assisting, I,there's a couple of photographers who
did huge jobs and I really wanted tosee how they ran production, but you
weren't allowed to work for them andget paid for the first six months.
(41:15):
You had to be a free intern.
Seriously, it was unbelievable.
And that is no longer legal in LosAngeles because of the abuse that
happened with that, like free crew.
And these were on huge jobs.
So this guy was making at least$10,000 a day as a fee, plus all of
(41:36):
the expenses and things like that.
And you're not gonna pay your productionassistant like a hundred dollars a day.
Dude w w w what?
They kept calling me and I'm like,Oh my God, so and so just called
and they'd be like, know therules, you have to work for free.
And I was like, no.
I, why would I do that?
I can, I can work for a numberof photographers at a first
(42:00):
photo assistant pay rate.
Like why would I do that?
Why would I work for free for you?
Well, you're going to beworking for so and so.
Yeah.
No.
So I never, I never worked for the guy.
Never worked for the guy.
Mica (42:11):
That makes total sense.
The photographers who did reach out anddid offer to assist for free, like I
automatically tell them like, first ofall, I hope you haven't messaged any other
photographer offering to do this for free.
Because you should begetting paid for your work.
Don't offer for free.
You need to be paid for your time.
You need to be paid for your work.
(42:31):
If you set the precedent that, hey, I willdo free work, then it will be very hard
to get someone to pay you for your work.
Once you set that boundary,then it's, it's done.
Christina (42:46):
And the other thing too that they don't understand as
well, if they aren't being paid,there's no workman's comp involved.
If they get hurt on the job, thenthe photographer will literally get
sued by the state for workman's comp.
So you can't work for free.
Ever.
It's just not a good idea, especiallyif the photographer's running
strobe packs and stuff like that.
Mica (43:06):
Yeah, I don't want my hand getting blown off, and I don't want
anybody else's hands getting blown off.
Christina (43:12):
Yeah.
And in our food world, sometimesmy assistants would help in
the kitchen a little bit.
They might be washing knives andhandling hot pans and things like that.
We can get hurt in our food world.
Mica (43:26):
I used to work in a physical therapy clinic and, a lot of of our
patients that came in, they weredealing with work related injuries.
Some of the companies that they workedfor, they were like, we don't want
to involve our insurance company,so we're just going to do self pay.
We don't want to raise our premiums,we don't want to raise our rates.
And then they, they were shockedby how much it would cost.
(43:49):
And I'm like you're doing self pay.
And I think, the fact thatyour employee lost a finger,
it's the least you could do.
Christina (43:56):
Yeah, that's why.
That's why we have laws aboutthat, to protect, protect people.
I work for a lot of photographerswho tried to get away with
not making me an employee.
And this is another thing Ilearned during my little two
year stint as a photo assistant.
I didn't know about workman's comp.
(44:18):
I had no clue.
No one had taught me that stuff.
I'm working with a photographer, there'sone photographer, and he's making me
sign this weird document that says,I'm a 1099 employee contract laborer.
And if I get hurt on thejob, he's not responsible.
and I was like, wait a minute.
(44:38):
So I said to him, I was like, hold on.
So if you have me go up on a ladder, Ifall off a ladder and break something.
You're saying that you're notgoing to help me with that?
No, you're not an employee.
So he was incorrect and wrong.
All photo assistants are employeesand you're going to have photographers
that will argue with you about this.
(45:00):
Another reason why I worked for so manydifferent photographers, I would work for
them one time and learn how they treatedpeople, how they ran their productions.
And it was just like, hellno, I am not going to get
involved with this person again.
With photographers like that, whomaybe they, they booked me and
then they try to get me to signan agreement on the shoot day.
(45:24):
What am I going to do?
Walk out?
I probably should have.
But I didn't.
I caved in and I signed the agreement.
And then I would just literally mailthem information about workman's
comp and all of that afterwards.
And I would send that in with my invoice.
And I'd be like, here you go.
And what you're doing is not legal, dude.
(45:45):
Laughter.
Mica (45:47):
I worked in theater and I was so naive when I went into working
freelance, I thought I was goingto be doing like all these big like
productions and yada, yada, yada.
And I found myself working for a lotof like small mom and pop theaters.
There was one show where it waslike water it was there was a scene
(46:08):
where It's like it's raining and so
Christina (46:11):
Oh my God, so much liability with that.
Mica (46:14):
So much it's so
Christina (46:16):
Was an attorney in a previous life because I'm like,
I immediately go down that road.
Mica (46:20):
It's so like they had a live band and there were like monitors
and and so like we're setting thisall up and the stage manager is
telling me what my job was to do andI was just like looking at her and
I was like, I don't want to do this.
She's like, well, you know,this is what we hired you to do.
And I was like I guess you'regoing to have to fire me because
(46:42):
I don't want to get electrocuted.
This is a lot of electronicsand you have actors on stage and
I'm like, I saw Pet Cemetery.
Part two.
I know what happened to that actress.
I'm not trying to get electrocuted.
I was like, y'all are crazy.
They ended up havingme do a different job.
But then, looking back on it yearslater, it could have really gone wrong.
(47:02):
I could have really got andI didn't know any better.
If I hadn't spoken up for myself andsaid, I really don't want to do this,
and I don't feel comfortable doingthis, imagine the kind of Danger.
I was putting myself in.
And so it's just scary.
So like assisting all of the, all of thesedifferent photographers, that's how you
found your way into food photography.
(47:24):
What was it about food photographythat stood out more than all
of the other genres and niches?
Christina (47:31):
What I really liked most about working on the food
jobs was it took patience.
It was a much slower paceand really detail oriented.
Not that other types of shooting aren't,but, I absolutely hated the fashion stuff.
I only did a few assisting jobs with that.
I don't have that attitude ortemperament to deal with that.
(47:54):
And I don't like how people aretreated on a lot of those sets,
at least the ones that I was on.
So the food world.
Pretty much a lot of people working onthose jobs are foodies, and I love food.
It was fascinating and fun, andseeing what the food stylists did
was just always amazing to me.
What they could do with certainfoods and, and how they could turn
something look like brown mushinto something really fantastic.
(48:17):
So I love that aspect of it.
And prop styling and seeingwhat the prop stylists would
do and how they did their job.
It just really clicked for me.
I was like, okay, this is thisis what I'm resonating with.
And I, and I would not have figuredthat out, or maybe I would have,
(48:38):
but it probably would have takenme a lot longer to figure that
out had I not done assisting.
I was working with a lot ofphotographers who did Los
Angeles magazine back in the day.
A lot of food magazinesand stuff like that.
So I really got to see some beautifulrecipes get created and styled.
Then lit fully in the studio as ifit was outside and stuff like that.
(49:02):
So I, I really clicked with allof those weird things that we
have to do as a food shooter.
It's fun.
Mica (49:10):
What's a misconception that people have about food photography
still after all these years?
Christina (49:19):
I'm sure you've experienced this too, but when you're working
with a new client, they alwayssay, all of this for one shot?
And it's like, yeah, dude,yeah, we need a lot of food.
Where don't get stingy on menow and only give me one pie if
we're going to photograph a pie.
I need like 10 pies, don't be stingy like
Mica (49:39):
Hey, there's
Christina (49:41):
Yeah.
So I don't think that people realize orthey think that we're miracle workers.
That we can just take this one tinylittle amount of food and make it
somehow spread and, and get bigger.
And then just become this beautiful thing.
It's a collaboration.
It takes a lot of talent and a foodstylist, ideally a prop stylist, if
(50:03):
you have the budget, and then ourphotography knowledge and lighting.
So when we're working with clientswho, haven't hired pros before.
That's the biggest education that weneed to do is to basically totally enroll
them in the idea of, yeah, you wantit to look like it does on my website.
There's a price for that.
And it's going to take some timeand some resources and People.
(50:28):
Staff.
Mica (50:29):
There's a lot of hand holding.
I assisted on a shoot where it was likea pizza shoot and we went through, gosh
almost a hundred to a hundred pizzas.
It was a two day shoot.
I told my friends and they werelike, that's a lot of pizza.
So I'm like well, the more peopleon an agency's team you have.
Let's say you have eight people,that's eight different opinions
(50:51):
and you got to please eight people.
And if one person doesn't like howone pepperoni looks guess what?
You got to scrap it.
And do it again.
And it can be pretty tedious becauseof how many people are involved.
Christina (51:05):
Yeah, that always comes to play.
And when I do work with the largercrews like that, larger productions I
make it very clear in the beginning,we need to have one person on set
that is controlling the creative.
And I explained to them, I know you'vebeen on set with five of you or six
of you, and while you're arguingabout this or that, the food's dying.
(51:27):
It's not an efficient way to shoot.
Now, there will be times where you'rejust going to have agency people butt
heads, and again, when they walk into thestudio, I'm like picking up the vibes.
Like, okay, what typeof crew do we have here?
Do they like each other?
Is there animosity and stuff like that?
And then when there's animosityand there's egos battling out
(51:48):
like creative director versusart director, that happens a lot.
Then that's when I will, basicallybe like, okay, listen, we'll shoot
it your way and then we'll shoot ityour way if it's not a huge deal.
And then y'all can figure this and youcan have this fight outside the studio.
We got to move on.
It's to appease the argument.
I'm not gonna have theargument in the studio anymore.
(52:08):
Y'all can do this after here.
We're gonna shoot it this way.
We're gonna shoot it that way Move on.
Like just I'm not gonna charge youextra for it Yeah, you're going
to pick one of them, so I'm notgoing to charge you extra for it.
Stop being 12 years old and figure it out.
Like someone wants to be the winner,you know, and it's like, Oh God, okay.
Mica (52:27):
I want to talk about your kaleidoscope of food series.
And I think that'll be a niceway to, to, to close out.
One thing I, I loved is that, youtalked about how this series is a
celebration of what nature has givenus from the earth and from the oceans.
You mentioned that your commercialwork took you away from why you got
(52:49):
into shooting food in the first place.
So I wanted to hear more aboutthat and about the series.
What you love about it.
And how it pushed you andchallenged you as an artist.
Christina (53:02):
Yeah, so I've always done fine art photography
while doing commercial work.
I think it's important that you do have.
The kaleidoscope of food came out of that.
I actually started doing it indays of film with four by five
film because it's so easy to shootmultiples of film, flip them, rotate
them, and then re photograph them.
So that, that's actually how it started.
(53:22):
With the digital era, itjust became 30 times easier.
And so it was really just like, firstread of a lot of the kaleidoscopes
is just bright, colorful textures.
And then when you get deeper into it,then you realize that's cauliflower
or that's octopus or whatever.
Mica (53:39):
I like the scallion snowflake.
I thought that was so cool.
Christina (53:43):
Yeah.
So that was really just playing withfood and it's beautiful to begin with,
but then turning it into this otherthing that's also really beautiful.
That's really what that was allabout because my commercial work was
so hardcore advertising and it wasreally far removed from photographing
food that just came out of the field.
(54:04):
It was really far from that.
So my kaleidoscope work I would go tothe farmer's markets and I would buy
whatever beautiful things inspired me.
And then I would come back to thestudio and do still life work with it.
In some of the still life workwould be portfolio pieces.
Some of those became componentsof the kaleidoscope stuff.
It's really just sort of a reminderof where our food really does
(54:28):
originate from and celebrating that.
Mica (54:31):
I love that.
I love that.
You mentioned about like portfoliowork and I just push that so much to
new photographers, just photographers.
And I just tell them, yourportfolio work is the playground.
That's the commercial work,your advertising work.
That's, that's your classroom.
My last question for you is orsecond to last actually, is what has
(54:55):
been, the most rewarding part of,of that educational journey for you?
Christina (55:02):
I recognize that with having the experience I did working for so
many different photographers, it really,really gave me an advantage over a lot of
my competitors when I was starting out.
I worked with a lot of photographerswho were really sincere and supportive.
(55:23):
I'm still good friends with a fewof them to this day, even though it
was like 30 years ago, actually 35years ago, it was a long time ago.
I always just hoped that I could bethat for someone else because, God,
I worked for so many photographerswho were just like, not nice.
They were so like, pretty mean.
(55:43):
So for me with the club, it was definitelyabout, there's so much bad information
out there, incorrect information.
People feel that now they don't needto have an education to do photography.
And I can't imagine my world if I,without my my education that I have.
(56:06):
So I want the club to be a resource forpeople where they know, first of all, I
didn't just pick up a camera yesterday, soI have a little bit of experience with it,
and I can just give them my experience.
Let them know this is whatI have experience personally.
This is what I went through.
Just hopefully making it quicker forpeople to figure out what should be the
(56:29):
next step for them in their photo career.
Learning photography is extremely hard.
You're learning technical things.
You're learning business.
You're learning artistic stuff.
And you're learning how to work withpeople, random strangers sometimes.
These are a lot of skills andit takes time to navigate that.
(56:52):
So I always just say to people who arejust starting out, you're not going
to learn all the things at one time.
It's not possible.
It's overwhelming.
You're going to get burnt out.
You're going to get confused.
And you're just going to want to drop it.
it's not going to serveanyone if that happens.
So you got to just focuson one thing at a time.
With the club, with the things Ireally always talk about, you have
(57:16):
to determine who the clients arethat you want to shoot for first.
So I teach things verydifferently from a lot of people.
Instead of just go out, shooteverything that you can, shoot
what you want and do that.
That's great.
That's on the side, butyou have to flip it.
You have got to know who you'retargeting and then you build a body of
(57:36):
work that's going to get that person.
It's 10 times easier whenyou think of it this way.
I can always tell when I'm working witha photographer who was in a program and
they did the random assignments and theserandom assignments become their portfolio.
There's no integration, there's no flow,it literally is a book of assignments.
(58:00):
That's not going to get you work.
You have to have aconsistent look and feel.
You have to know exactlywho you're going after.
Once you determine that, then itmakes it really a lot easier to make a
portfolio that will attract that, thattarget market that you're going after.
Mica (58:18):
One thing you mentioned about like programs they teach you how to
be a photographer, but they don'tteach you how to be a photographer,
like the business side of it.
I feel like my education at, because I,I got associates in photography as well.
I feel like that was like step one.
Oftentimes, I've noticed that theseeducational programs at least in an
(58:41):
institution, is that they guaranteethat when you're done with our program,
you're going to leave a photographer.
And I think that that's misleading.
I feel like this is step one.
You've learned the foundations and thebasics of how to be a photographer.
And now the next step of youreducation, whether it be assisting
(59:01):
or whether you get a mentorship withanother experienced photographer,
like that's the next step, but you'renot going to just launch straight
into photography right after this.
Christina (59:12):
We're definitely not.
it is a profession that I believeneeds to be with, do it with
apprenticing and have an apprenticeship.
But people don't want to do that now.
They just want the quick fix.
They go to YouTube, they think theycan get all their answers there
or maybe they buy a random coursehere and there, and then they have
no idea what they don't know yet.
So then they do a job and thenit goes horribly and then they're
(59:35):
like, Oh my God, what, what?
It's
Mica (59:38):
It's like, this is what it's like.
I don't want to do this.
Ah, ah.
So my, my last question for you.
What do you hope people learn fromtoday's episode and where can they follow
you and support you and learn from you?
Christina (59:55):
Hopefully with today's episode if you haven't tried assisting
or working with someone else before,maybe this could inspire you to do that.
It's incredibly fun and you getto see how other people do things.
It's so valuable.
It's just, it's a great, it's agreat, I can't promote it more.
You can follow me on FoodPhotography Blog and also of
(01:00:17):
course the Food Photography Club.
I also have a Facebook group withover 6, 000 members in there where
we just, people just go in and askquestions about food photography.
I'm in there every day.
Mica (01:00:28):
Oh man, I can't thank you enough for being a guest on this show.
I loved everythingabout this conversation.
I feel like I could talk to youfor 20, 000 years about life
and family and photography.
I am picking up what you are putting down.
So thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Christina (01:00:50):
Oh, and thank you so much.
It's been great talking and rememberingall these things about way back when.
Mica (01:00:58):
Thank you again for being on the show and for being the most
amazing human being on the planet.
Yay.
Christina (01:01:05):
I appreciate it very much.
And I think it's importantwhat you're doing to support
other photographers as well.
It's awesome.
Welcome to the 40th episode of The Savory Shot.
(00:05):
First off, a massive welcome to allof y'all amazing listeners out there.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographer andI am here in Austin, Texas.
Y'all, I can't believe that this isthe 40th episode of The Savory Shot.
(00:26):
40!
Hell yeah!
40 episodes, y'all, of deep, enchanting,and authentic adventures in this
amazing world called food photography.
I love it here, y'all!
I really do!
10 more episodes and we'llhave reached the big 5 0.
(00:49):
Holy shit!
I'm ready.
Are y'all?
I feel like once we reach that big5 0 that there needs to be some
kind of, I don't know, celebration.
Like, I gotta celebrate this.
This is a huge milestone.
So I'm gonna think aboutsome things I want to do.
I'm open to ideas.
Hit me up on what you think I shoulddo or we should do to celebrate, but
(01:12):
before I go one step further, y'allknow I can not start this show off
without expressing a heartfelt thankyou to each and every one of y'all.
To the longtime followers, my rideor dies, who've been with me since
the humble beginnings, episode one,and to the new faces joining us today
on what I like to call the Hot MessExpress, thank you for giving this
(01:38):
show a chance, your enthusiasm, yoursupport is what feels this show.
And for that, I'm eternally grateful.
There's so much work thatgoes into a show like this.
But every single time I get amessage from y'all, or a comment,
it makes everything worth it.
So thank you for being here.
(01:59):
Thank you for being partof this crazy journey.
Now it's the first month of the year.
It's a time brimming withenergy and aspirations and
the promise of new beginnings.
So how's the month treating y'all so far?
I hope you got your sightsset high and your dreams big.
(02:19):
If you are starting the new yeardoing awesome things, pushing
boundaries and setting the stage foran unforgettable year, I want you
to stand up and shout, "Hootie hooo"
Unless you're at work oryou're in a coffee shop or
in a library, don't do that.
You might get kicked out.
(02:40):
But also, if you're strugglingthis month, that's all right too.
We got you, boo.
If your big accomplishment for themonth of January is getting out
of bed, And putting your hair in aponytail or maybe putting on a bra
or I don't know checking your email.
That's cool, too.
It's month one.
Take care of you boo.
But let's bring the focus backto the here and now I want to
(03:03):
talk about this episode y'all.
Today I am beyond thrilled to introduceour first guest of the year, holy shit.
This is our first guest ofthe year and y'all I could not
have picked a better person.
(03:23):
Our guest embodies the spiritof creativity and expertise.
Y'all I will not keep youhanging for much longer.
I present.
Christina Peters.
If you're part of the food photographyworld, her name needs no introduction.
Like, you should know who she is,you should worship the ground she
(03:43):
walks on, but for those who arejust getting their feet wet, boo
things, you're in for a treat.
Christina isn't just afood photographer, y'all.
She's a storyteller, an artist.
a mentor.
Christina has been an award winningcommercial food photographer
for more than 25 years.
(04:05):
Damn, y'all talk about street cred.
She's also a blogger, best selling author.
workshop instructor, and online educator.
Y'all, she has this membership site calledFood Photography Club, and when I first
got into food photography, her site wasone of the first ones that I joined.
(04:27):
And y'all, if you haven'tseen it, go to it.
It is one of the best.
Best resources out there.
There are so many videos, somany videos teaching you how to
be a better food photographer.
But it's not just the, the, the teachingyou how to be a food photographer.
(04:51):
She also talks about the business side.
It's been around since 2017.
There are hundreds of foodphotographers in this group.
She also has a Facebook groupthat has more than 6, 000 members.
Y'all, go to it.
Check it out.
And let me tell youabout this conversation.
Oof.
(05:11):
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Oof.
Y'all, we had one of thosemeaty, chunky conversations.
We talked about her moving outat age 16, which, holy shit.
I still think is insane.
Her experience as an assistantto over 35 photographers.
What?
(05:32):
And.
Why it's important for photographersto advocate for themselves.
I hope y'all are ready for an episodethat is sure to leave you inspired,
educated, and maybe, maybe justa little bit hungrier for more.
But hold on, y'all.
Hold on.
Before we dive into all of that goodness,grab your favorite snack or a cocktail.
(05:57):
It's five o'clock somewhere, or ifyou're having one of those kind of
days, maybe you need a second espresso.
Whatever you got to do, find it, finda comfy spot, and let's start the show.
(06:46):
I want to start off this interviewwith, thank you for being here.
Every time I reach out to a guest andI'm like, Gosh, I hope they say yes,
because I have nothing to offer butmy heart and lint in my pockets.
Every time someone saysyes, it's just a huge honor.
So thank you very muchfor being on the show.
Christina (07:07):
You're so welcome and thanks.
Thanks for having me here.
It's fun.
I always like doing this.
Mica (07:13):
I want to take it back to when you were a kid and being eight years
old and using your dad's camera.
I thought that was just the coolest thing.
What stands out to you aboutthose early experiences?
Christina (07:28):
Yeah, it's, it's funny because my father.
introduce me to photography so thatit would be a fun hobby for me.
Was never intended to instigatea career to start a career.
I really liked it.
It was very fun for me andand it was challenging.
(07:49):
So he let me have a dark room.
He helped me with setting up blackand white printing at home and, the
whole time I'm doing all this stuff,everything looked really, really horrible.
And so it just triggered this thechallenge of trying to figure out,
how do I get what's in my mindvisually onto a piece of paper?
(08:11):
And how do I do that?
So I really started trying to learnas much about photography as I could.
Of course, this is waybefore the internet.
We had to use the library.
Take as many photo classes asI could and stuff like that.
By the time I was a teenager, Iremember he wanted to have a serious
conversation and asked me what I wasintending on doing with my career.
(08:35):
He was thinking that this wasgoing to get me on to his train,
which was being a chemist.
When I told him I wanted to be aphotographer, he was really upset.
He was just like, okay, thatis not what I intended for you.
He wanted me to take over hisstudies at where he worked.
(08:58):
I was like what do you mean?
You're the one that introduced,I'm a photographer because
of you, like you started it.
You know, This is your fault, dude.
Mica (09:05):
This is a, this is a, a product of your success.
Christina (09:08):
Yeah.
Like I thought this is what you wanted andhe was like, no, this should be a hobby.
So I was like no, I want tobe a photographer and you
hate your corporate world.
So why would you want that for me?
And he was like, Oh.
Then he gave me the ultimatumif I wanted to be a chemist,
he would support me with that.
If I wanted to be aphotographer, I was on my own.
(09:30):
So I moved out at the age of16 and was like, okay, I'm out.
Mica (09:36):
That's terrifying.
I'm like thinking back to16 year old and I'm like.
Christina (09:41):
No, no, I, I was in a very small town Newark, Delaware.
So it was way easier at thattime to do something like this.
And it's a college town.
So I just rented an apartment onMain Street with four other girls,
and I had three waitressing jobs.
I was still in high school and, I waslike, okay, this is how you do it.
Mica (10:02):
Wow.
Was he a photographer himself?
Was photography a hobby of his?
Christina (10:09):
Oh yeah.
He took a lot of photos.
Looking back at what he shot, henever really improved his work.
My father was an arrogant man and hereally felt like no one could teach
him anything new, that kind of a thing.
And so he never took photoclasses or anything like that.
(10:29):
So very quickly, as a teenager, Isurpassed his knowledge of photography
and how to print properly and, how lensesworked and lighting and all of that.
He didn't use any strobelighting or anything like that.
So very quickly what fewconversations we had.
(10:51):
He didn't want to talk about itanymore because I knew, I think it's
because I knew more than he did andhe wasn't good at talking to people
like that, so even, even all the waythrough his life he never, ever wanted
to talk about photography with me.
Mica (11:10):
Cause it's one of those things, it's she proved me wrong, damn it.
Christina (11:15):
Yeah.
I, but he if I had a slowtime in my career, then he
was like, told you, you know.
He was, he was definitely offended.
I think his ego was bruised that Ididn't want to take over his studies.
He was shocked that I could even think ofdoing something else, like why wouldn't
(11:41):
I want to follow in his footsteps?
He was pretty famousin the chemistry world.
And he worked for a very largechemical company out here.
So he was just like, I'vecompletely offended that I didn't
want to become a chemist, but hehated the corporate structure.
He did not like where he worked.
And he talked about it every nightat the dinner table, every night.
Mica (12:03):
So like, why wouldn't he be surprised that you're like, Ooh?
Christina (12:07):
He was like this is just what you got to do.
You have to have a regular income.
You have to have something steady.
You're going to be a starving artist.
And I was like, no, there's thisthing called commercial photography.
I want to do ad work.
I'll do the fine art stuff allthe time for myself, but there's
a lot of money in advertising.
(12:27):
I was like, it's everywhere.
Again, this is before the internet, right?
So I was like, you drive down theroad, you go to a store, you are
bombarded by advertising everywhere.
People get paid to do that work.
Mica (12:40):
My mom was the same way when I decided to pursue theater
and she was like, wait, what?
I thought theater was just somethingthat you, like extracurricular, I
didn't, I didn't think you wouldactually look at it as a career choice.
But you raised me this way.
You told me to never follow anyone's path.
Follow my own path.
So why are you surprised that I'mactually following your advice?
Christina (13:04):
That's the ironic thing, right?
So my dad, his dad got him an interviewat the company where his dad worked.
And in the interview, my dad toldthe guy, I don't want to work here.
I, I want to be a chemist.
My parents are British.
(13:25):
So at that time it was common to moveto South Africa if you were a Brit.
He was like, we're going toget the, whatever out of here.
Chemistry was his ticketout of England and it was.
He worked for companies like Palmolive.
He worked for a lot of soapcompanies at that time but in a
field called gas chromatography.
A gas chromatograph is a machinethat analyzes gaseous substances
(13:47):
and it tells you what's in it.
And it was revolutionary at that time.
And he worked with one of themen that invented the machine.
Many years before that.
So that was his field of study.
It was brand new field and I was changingthe chemical world radically in a
manner that was, really very helpful foreveryone to be able to analyze a substance
(14:11):
and tell you exactly what's in it.
So yeah, so he was fascinated bythat and he was just like, this
will guarantee you a career.
I'm like, dude you have severalfriends that got laid off in their 60s.
Why would I ever consider workingfor a company that did that?
(14:32):
I'm a teenager in the 80s.
So in the 80s, all of the majorchemical companies around here
started doing some mega layoffs.
They were laying off people who hadbeen working for them for decades.
And they were in their fifties,and they were in their sixties, and
they'd never worked anywhere before.
And now they gotta scramble andfigure out how to get another job?
Mica (14:56):
Devastating.
Christina (14:57):
And I was like, ah, ah, dude, I'm not signing up for that program.
Why would you want meto even be part of that?
At the same time, my father actually waspretty sexist, but, always looking back,
he never told me I couldn't do photographyand he wanted me to be a chemist.
(15:18):
So it was like, he's actually a prettysexist person, but here he is thinking
his daughter could do it or whatever.
He never ever said the words tome that I couldn't do something.
But then he was like, all right youthink you got this all figured out?
You're on your own girl.
Mica (15:35):
It's if you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this alone.
Christina (15:38):
I'm gonna do it by yourself.
Mica (15:39):
What did your mom think about you being in photography?
Christina (15:43):
She loved it.
My mom didn't have a lot of confidence.
They're older.
They're now in their mid 80sand my father just passed at 88.
When they got married, the type ofjobs women had available to them,
especially in South Africa, whereshe was allowed to be a secretary.
They really liked hiring theBrits because of the accent.
(16:04):
My mom didn't have a lot of confidence.
My father did not allowher to go to school.
She did secretarial school.
That was acceptable.
Then when he was in South Africa, thegoal was to move to another country.
The political unrest in South Africawas really crazy when they were there.
(16:25):
They were getting in troublefor being friends with people of
other races and things like that.
They were shifting laws to whereif you were not born there and you
wanted to leave the country, youcouldn't bring any money with you.
So they were gettingready to shift the law.
So then there was this mass exodus ofall the Brits leaving South Africa.
(16:49):
So that's when dad was like, okay,we got to find another place to go.
Let's try the U.
S.
He wrote a bunch of letters toseveral companies and the chemical
company he ended up working withsponsored him to move out to the U.
S.
Dad left South Africa firstand then he went to the U.
S.
first and then mom went back toEngland for about six months.
(17:11):
After he got things set up,then she moved out to the U.
S.
And there's a lot more to that storyabout why they were away from each other
for that long, but we won't go into that.
Mica (17:21):
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I, I love that your momwas like, fully on board.
Super supportive.
Your mom was like your cheerleader andyour supporter and go girl, go, go, go.
You could do this.
You could do this.
I believe in you.
That's really cool.
Christina (17:39):
Yeah, yeah, she, she always was and and, and still is, of course.
Mica (17:44):
When you talked about how you would like, wait like a week or two
for your film to come in the mail.
I tell this to my niecesand nephew all the time.
I'm like, you have no idea how blessedyou are right now because you could take
a picture and see the instant results,but for us like we had to go wait in line.
(18:04):
Turn in our film and then wait.
And then go pick it up and thenwe'd find out if whether or
not this thing was in focus.
Christina (18:14):
And that's the thing you had to make sure it was in focus.
You know in days of film,it was really stressful.
Geez, I was thinking back onthis earlier my film bill.
I use Sammy's camerain Los Angeles, right?
So all my film would becoming from Sammy's camera.
An average year would be 20 or30 thousand dollars in film.
(18:34):
I shot food, which means, wedon't really burn a lot of frames.
If you were shooting fashion or people,your film bill at the end of the
year, would have been at least I don'tknow fifty, hundred thousand dollars,
And that was just the film part.
We needed Polaroid.
That was how we previsualized what we were doing.
(18:55):
Was shooting Polaroid.
The first ten years wasalways large format.
So four by five film.
And geez, some months just myPolaroid bill was like 5,000
dollars just for Polaroid.
But you bill it out, when you'redoing your estimates, you knew,
okay for each shot that I'm beinghired to do, just the film cost,
(19:16):
I'm billing them out at 300 dollars.
Just for one shot.
So that's covering the film, the Polaroid,and the processing, because I would
usually run like five sheets of film.
on a shot.
You shoot two normals, you bracket, right?
You shoot two normals and then youshoot two overs and two unders.
And then you run one normal at the lab.
We all had our own little formulas, right?
So I was shooting Fujin Velvia.
(19:38):
Quite a bit for food.
It was really a beautiful, warm film.
You underexpose a weebit and then you push it.
So like that, like in days of film,your style and technique came from
how you ran your film, you know howyou processed it, what film you used.
What lab you used and all of that.
So I had my little formula down and Iwouldn't run everything if I didn't need
(20:00):
to, so that's how I would keep costs down.
So if I nailed it on my normalexposure shot, I might run the other
one as a backup, because again, weonly have that one piece of film.
So you need a backup.
It was just a whole notherwhole nother world of shooting.
And you had to have multiplesets up at the same time.
While you're running film on that set,now we work on set number two, and
(20:23):
then as we're working on that one, theassistant goes out and picks up the
film for set number one because youhad to rush it, which means the film's
going to be done in an hour and a half.
Your whole day is scheduling aroundrunning your film, getting your first
sheets back to double check your exposure.
And then depending on whathappened with that shot your
(20:45):
client is there with you, right?
There's no virtual shooting at all.
You go to the light table.
We're looking at the film Andthen it's okay, yeah, I think
we're, we're happy with this.
Now we're going to strike thisand move on to the, to the next.
This is a slow process.
It was very, it was a very slow process.
Mica (21:06):
Such a different world back then with, with digital,
it's like spray and pray.
That's what I call it.
Christina (21:13):
Exactly.
Mica (21:15):
Spray
Christina (21:16):
know.
Mica (21:16):
and pray.
And with, film, it's like you have,this finite amount of shots and so
you really have to be intentionalwith everything that you're doing.
Christina (21:26):
And imagine every time you press the shutter,
that just cost you money, man.
Every frame that you shootis costing you money.
Mica (21:39):
Oh my gosh so you better be sure.
Christina (21:41):
You better be sure about it.
And if someone's paying you to dothat, that pressure is ten times.
And, stuff happens, right?
I remember running film at the laband the power went out at the lab.
I assisted a lot and I learned thesetechniques of running and, and production.
(22:05):
It's really production iswhat we're talking about.
That's why you never, ever runall your film at the same time.
Cause it's called the soup.
Where the film is going into themachine, it's called the soup.
And so they're like, dude, if your filmgets stuck in the soup, then it's trashed.
Mica (22:21):
No, oh no, that would be the worst.
Christina (22:25):
And I've had, I've had that happen.
I can't even tell you how manytimes and it's not the lab's fault.
They just had a power failure ora machine broke down, and they
have to hand crank stuff out.
The machines are automated, but thenwhen they have a power failure, they
can literally hand crank, hand turnthe machines to get the film out of it.
(22:46):
But it's not going to be consistent.
You're going to have chemicalmarks on it and stuff like that.
So that's why I really lovedshooting sheet film and you never
ran it all at the same time.
So you had backups,backups, backups, backups.
I never lost film on a job.
Ever.
Even though machines went downor one machine even ate it.
(23:07):
It was like at the bottom of themachine and they couldn't get it out.
You have to, have to,have to have your backups.
I remember, when digital was just firstcoming on, there are some friends of
mine, they were product shooters andthey were doing this type of lifestyle
product photography with people.
They had shot almost the full day withoutdoing a backup and they lost everything.
(23:32):
I remember they were reaching out tofellow FOTOGs like, Hey, I've heard
of this thing called data rescue.
Do you know of any companies that do that?
Again, this is like beginningof digital era, right?
So there was a company in SanFrancisco that could try to pull
data off of drives, but they chargedlike 20,000 dollars to do it.
(23:56):
Oh my God.
And this is a big advertisingjob that the people were paid
considerably, so that's what they did.
Also, we had insurance forthese things back then.
What we still do now, you should now.
If something goes wrong with yourgear or whatever, and you lose
data you should have insuranceto protect you against that.
(24:16):
You might have to do a reshoot forfree, it's not the client's fault.
If your gear goes down that your clientshouldn't have to pay for that and stuff.
So I totally remember my friendstelling me that story and I was
like, okay, I used to back up atthe end of every shot digitally.
So I, I changed it to where just Igot a computer software was brand new
(24:42):
at the time where it was constantlybacking up onto a hard drive that
was sitting on the desk, right?
This is way before cloudcomputing was even happening.
Everything we did had to be on CDs ordrives, hard drives, and stuff like that.
I'm still carting around archives ofthis stuff because it's like, it's client
(25:04):
work and I don't want to throw it out.
So I've, I just carted around.
It's up in storage.
Then it was a big deal when,when DVDs came out, we could burn
on DVDs and get more data onto.
So instead of a job being like fiveCDs, we could burn it on a DVD.
Come on.
Mica (25:21):
Yeah, oh my gosh it's, it's crazy to think of what life was like
before digital and what it's like now.
Christina (25:28):
Yeah, it's amazing now.
That was a serious challengebecause in the beginning we did
not know the files that we werewriting digitally at that time.
We did not know if theywere future proofed.
We had no idea that we would beable to read them in the future,
(25:50):
like many, many years from now.
That's when they came out with thedigital, the DNG, the digital negative.
And that is supposed to befuture proof, industry standard.
Everybody should be ableto open up a DNG file.
And because it's a digital negative,you have access to that raw data, right?
(26:12):
Each camera has their ownraw file formula, right?
So that's not future proofed probably.
But I remember my retouchers, wewould have these conversations and they
would be like, Hey CP, I know you'regiving me TIFF files, but I want us
to work with DNGs, digital negatives.
(26:34):
Anything can open it, and I wasshooting with a Phase One Digital Back.
So that was creating itsown type of raw file format.
And so yeah, we were basically workingin DNGs when I was working with certain
retouchers just because of that.
Mica (26:48):
One thing I loved learning about you is, how you assisted so many different
photographers and like different niches.
You said that in the two yearsthat you were assisting, you
assisted over 35 photographers.
And I was like what?
Christina (27:03):
Oh yeah.
And many more very regularly.
Not every photographer is created equallyand not every photographer is nice.
Hence the 35.
Mica (27:16):
What stood out?
Was there a specific shootthat stood out to you?
What do you remember about that shoot?
Christina (27:23):
Sticking out to me as far as carving my career?
Or?
Mica (27:27):
Had a assisting that like had an impact on you as a photographer?
Christina (27:32):
There's so many.
What I chose to do was work withphotographers who work I technically
admired and they did big production.
Cause going to school, youdon't learn how to do production
when you're in school.
I wanted to just learn all ofthe back part, the behind the
scenes of running a photo shoot.
(27:53):
I still feel to this day, the only way youcan do that is by assisting somebody else.
You're not going to getthis off of YouTube.
British people tend to, my parents,I'll just say so I'm not offending a
lot of people who are Brits, but, myBritish parents never spoke their mind.
They never were straight withtheir feelings and you had
to read between the lines.
(28:14):
So I am excellent at readingpeople because of how these two
people were with each other.
It drove me nuts.
It was actually nice getting out ofthe house at such a young age to not
have to walk on eggshells every day.
Let's see who's pissedoff at each other today.
It was just exhausting.
Mica (28:31):
Analyze the sentences.
I'm like, okay, you saidthat, but did you mean that?
Christina (28:35):
Exactly.
And we're like, I knowyou didn't mean that.
I know you mean just the oppositebecause of the tone you just used.
So it really taught me how toread people very, very well.
So moving forward to when I wasassisting, let's just say that some
of the photographers I worked forwere not as aware as maybe they
(28:55):
should have been with their clients.
I'm like very empathic.
I pick up when someone's reallyangry or upset because that was
my survival mechanism as a kid.
I had to really read the room.
I can just walk into a room and Iknow exactly what's going on in there.
So the photographer would do or saysomething and the client would be
(29:19):
enraged, and didn't even know how to.
And I'd be like, Oh my God, how is thephotographer not picking up on this?
Then I would sort of like goover to the photographer and
just be like, Hey, so yeah.
Remember when you said that saying?
Maybe there was a different way thatthey were thinking about it, too.
So I became like a little translator,I guess is what I'm getting at.
(29:41):
Especially if the photographer actuallywas a good person, but they just weren't
too aware of things in their environment.
So I became the interpreter.
Some photographers, bless theirhearts, they're terribly shy and
they're not good with people.
Again, this is in the era where everythinghappened in studio, and if it didn't,
(30:02):
then there was like phone calls andconversations that had to happen.
Then things inevitably would haveto get reshot if they now see the
image and they're like, Oh my God,that's totally not what I had in mind.
So things like that.
When I was assisting, I picked upso many things with how to work
with the client, how to run astudio, how to treat your crew.
(30:26):
All these things that makesa business successful.
Let's even just takephotography out of it, right?
I waitressed a lot when I had to move out.
I worked in three differentrestaurants pretty much all the time.
And I also worked in a one hour film lab.
And so just witnessing interactionswith management, with staff, with
(30:46):
the customers, there's a greatway to do business and there's
really bad ways to do a business.
Keeping all of that in mind so that whena photographer is being asked by a client
to do something extra and then thatphotographer isn't good at vocalizing
(31:07):
yo, man, that wasn't on our contract.
We didn't agree to that.
They can't be straight about it.
And now they're angry but they're doingit, but they shouldn't be doing it.
They should be charging more for it.
Again, days of film,very expensive mistake.
So I'm like, just have a conversation.
What the?
And now you just set a precedent withthat client and they do it again.
(31:29):
Cause you're letting them.
You have to be your own advocateand you have to warn the client.
Listen, it's like I have been artdirected horribly, meaning the
art direction choice was awful.
Not good colors.
They had something in their mind that theywanted and it's not going to agree with
(31:51):
your aesthetic and it might not look good.
Sadly, a lot of jobs I shot that werecompletely controlled and creative
directed or art directed to somethingI would never show in my portfolio.
I'm showing them my portfolio, this styleand look, and then they're art directing
(32:12):
me to put down a flaming yellow tableclothwith some brown food that looks god awful.
Things like that.
And then sometimes when I get asked to dosomething that I I personally don't agree
with, with aesthetically, then I will askthem if I could do my version as well.
(32:34):
And I don't charge themextra for that shot up front.
The understanding is, and this is writteninto the contract, if the photographer
wants to do a variation for herselfit's not going to charge, not going
to cost you extra unless you want touse that in replace of what we shot.
You're paying me to dofour or five images.
(32:55):
Let's say we do five imagesand then I do a variation of
one and you like that better.
And oftentimes that's reallywhat would end up happening.
Then they can take my variationas part of that final mix.
And I make sure we don't go intoovertime when I am suggesting a
variation or a change on set that wasn'tnecessarily art directed that way.
(33:17):
So you really have to read the roomand figure out they, they say it's
a collaboration, but how much ofit It really is a collaboration.
Do they just want me tobe the trigger person?
They just want to literally noodlethat spoon on set 900 times and
I'm taking pictures and then I gotto shut this down because we need
(33:41):
to start working on our next shot.
Mica (33:43):
It's look, we've gotten 300 pictures of this spaghetti shot.
Can we?
Christina (33:47):
Yeah.
We've now covered this shotwith the spoon in 900 locations.
I think we got it.
I think it's safe to move on now.
You're going to have to commit,move it on, and I will, I will
joke around like that too on set.
Mica (34:09):
You mentioned earlier that that like assisting helped you see the back
end, like how photography businesses arerun and that, even today, that's really
the best way to get to know the business.
For photographers who are sovery new what's the best way
to approach a photographer?
(34:32):
Should they learn a few things first andthen start assisting, or should they just
dive right in and let the photographerknow, Hey, I'm really wet behind the
ears, but I'm a, I'm a fast learner.
I will pick up, just give me a chance.
Christina (34:47):
There's many different ways to go about this.
And depending on your level ofexpertise with equipment you got to
look at this as a business as well.
An assisting business.
You got to like put it out there.
I can't stand it when someonereaches out to me and they're
like, let me shadow you for a day.
That's offensive.
(35:08):
That means you don't want to do anything.
You want to see what I'm doing.
Mica (35:11):
You want to see what I'm doing and you want to copy what I'm doing.
Christina (35:14):
And you want to copy what I'm doing?
No.
I've never let anyone shadow me.
When I'm working bigger productionsand we need someone, so you have your
first assistant, second assistant,third assistant, and then you
have PAs, production assistants.
That's like the hierarchy.
The first assistant is like your right,right hand man, second assistant,
they know almost as much as the first.
(35:36):
Third assistant, they're still green,they're still learning, but they have
been on set, they have experience.
And then we have production assistants.
If you aren't a part of an organizationlike an APA or an ASMP or PPA, if you
can't find anything like that in yourarea, then you're going to be trying to
find photographers who would use you asa production assistant type of person
(36:01):
where you don't have responsibility.
You're not gonna be picking up camerasand shooting second shooting on set.
You're not gonna bedoing anything like that.
But I would really suggest to startgoing through a photo organization
because photo organizations, they'rethere to help everybody at every level.
They're going to have programslike the APA has an assisting
(36:23):
program in Los Angeles.
They have an assisting bootcamp.
It's, it was, it's phenomenal.
I was on one of the panels thereand it was like a two day boot camp.
Teaching photographers how to assist.
When I get people who are emailing measking to assist me, and then I go to
their website, there's no informationabout them being an assistant.
(36:47):
They want to be a food shooter.
So I know immediately that thisperson just wants to see what I'm
doing and working on, which is fine.
I get that.
But if you want to assist someone,you better have information on your
website about being an assistant.
What I suggest is just to set upa landing page with free software
(37:07):
about you being an assistant.
Photographers want to know what equipmentyou're familiar with, the brands.
We also need to know whatlevel of equipment do you know?
Do you know the pro gear or not?
Don't pretend.
This is not a fake it tillyou make it thing for sure.
Just be totally straight and honestabout your experience, so if you
are familiar with digital backs andlarge format systems, medium format
(37:30):
systems, you're going to have a hugeadvantage over those that don't.
Depending on the type of photographerthat you're approaching like if there's
somebody like me that we're using mediumformat systems we're using pretty high
end strobe equipment and things like that.
We need people who know how touse that gear especially with
the high end strobe packs.
That's a lot of wattage and if you use itincorrectly, you could blow your hand off.
Mica (37:52):
Oh, my gosh.
Christina (37:53):
Can't have that happen.
There's safety things on setwhen you're dealing with that
type of equipment for sure.
Yeah, just look at it as a business.
What I did for myself was Iknew I wanted to be a shooter.
I didn't want to become aprofessional photo assistant.
When I was working on set with severalbigger photographers that had many
(38:14):
assistants, I would approach thefreelance first assistants and say,
Hey, I really like working with you.
If you ever need a second ora third on any of your other
jobs, please let me know.
I would love that because thephotographers, when our main people
can't work for us, we ask them tofind someone to replace themselves.
(38:35):
Like we ask for referrals.
Once you get into that worldof photo assisting, you're
going to get referred out.
The other way that we findreally good assistants is
through equipment rental houses.
If you wanted to learn, seriously,you want to learn a lot, you work
for an equipment rental house fora few months, you're going to learn
(38:56):
about every piece of equipment.
That information will staywith you the rest of your life.
I never worked at a at anequipment rental house.
But I had several of my photoassistant friends that did.
We would literally talk about what newequipment came in, weird stuff that would
happen with some of the packs on set.
It was great.
I learned so much from my friendsthat actually worked at rental houses.
(39:18):
So yeah, I hope thatsort of broke it down.
If you really have never assistedbefore, approach an organization,
see what they have to offer.
And there's always photographers whoare members of these organizations who
are very supportive of new photographersand they have like a rotating program
(39:39):
in their studio every year of newproduction assistants and stuff like that.
I even had a few assistants in LA.
Because I was renting my friend'sphoto studio because mine wasn't
big enough, and he had basically apaid intern in his studio, but she
was interested in shooting food.
(40:00):
So when I was renting his space, myfriend Anthony, so Anthony's like,
Hey, I have a young photographer, from,cause he was teaching classes as well.
He was like, I got a young photographer.
She's going to be an intern.
Are you cool with herbeing there on your day?
It'd be really lovely for her tosee how a food shoot goes cause
she's never seen one before.
(40:21):
She was awesome.
And she was really goodalready as an assistant.
So then I started hiring her as a secondor third assistant on future jobs.
Just from that oneconnection from Anthony.
Mica (40:34):
Wow.
It really is such a small world.
Especially in Austin.
And I've had photographers or people whowanted to assist me reach out reach out
to me And they're like if you ever needyou know, I'll do it for free and I'm
like, ah First of all, I pay my crews so.
Christina (40:53):
So many photographers took advantage of the free internship.
And my friend, Anthony always paidhis people just to get that clear.
I remember when I was assisting, I,there's a couple of photographers who
did huge jobs and I really wanted tosee how they ran production, but you
weren't allowed to work for them andget paid for the first six months.
(41:15):
You had to be a free intern.
Seriously, it was unbelievable.
And that is no longer legal in LosAngeles because of the abuse that
happened with that, like free crew.
And these were on huge jobs.
So this guy was making at least$10,000 a day as a fee, plus all of
(41:36):
the expenses and things like that.
And you're not gonna pay your productionassistant like a hundred dollars a day.
Dude w w w what?
They kept calling me and I'm like,Oh my God, so and so just called
and they'd be like, know therules, you have to work for free.
And I was like, no.
I, why would I do that?
I can, I can work for a numberof photographers at a first
(42:00):
photo assistant pay rate.
Like why would I do that?
Why would I work for free for you?
Well, you're going to beworking for so and so.
Yeah.
No.
So I never, I never worked for the guy.
Never worked for the guy.
Mica (42:11):
That makes total sense.
The photographers who did reach out anddid offer to assist for free, like I
automatically tell them like, first ofall, I hope you haven't messaged any other
photographer offering to do this for free.
Because you should begetting paid for your work.
Don't offer for free.
You need to be paid for your time.
You need to be paid for your work.
(42:31):
If you set the precedent that, hey, I willdo free work, then it will be very hard
to get someone to pay you for your work.
Once you set that boundary,then it's, it's done.
Christina (42:46):
And the other thing too that they don't understand as
well, if they aren't being paid,there's no workman's comp involved.
If they get hurt on the job, thenthe photographer will literally get
sued by the state for workman's comp.
So you can't work for free.
Ever.
It's just not a good idea, especiallyif the photographer's running
strobe packs and stuff like that.
Mica (43:06):
Yeah, I don't want my hand getting blown off, and I don't want
anybody else's hands getting blown off.
Christina (43:12):
Yeah.
And in our food world, sometimesmy assistants would help in
the kitchen a little bit.
They might be washing knives andhandling hot pans and things like that.
We can get hurt in our food world.
Mica (43:26):
I used to work in a physical therapy clinic and, a lot of of our
patients that came in, they weredealing with work related injuries.
Some of the companies that they workedfor, they were like, we don't want
to involve our insurance company,so we're just going to do self pay.
We don't want to raise our premiums,we don't want to raise our rates.
And then they, they were shockedby how much it would cost.
(43:49):
And I'm like you're doing self pay.
And I think, the fact thatyour employee lost a finger,
it's the least you could do.
Christina (43:56):
Yeah, that's why.
That's why we have laws aboutthat, to protect, protect people.
I work for a lot of photographerswho tried to get away with
not making me an employee.
And this is another thing Ilearned during my little two
year stint as a photo assistant.
I didn't know about workman's comp.
(44:18):
I had no clue.
No one had taught me that stuff.
I'm working with a photographer, there'sone photographer, and he's making me
sign this weird document that says,I'm a 1099 employee contract laborer.
And if I get hurt on thejob, he's not responsible.
and I was like, wait a minute.
(44:38):
So I said to him, I was like, hold on.
So if you have me go up on a ladder, Ifall off a ladder and break something.
You're saying that you're notgoing to help me with that?
No, you're not an employee.
So he was incorrect and wrong.
All photo assistants are employeesand you're going to have photographers
that will argue with you about this.
(45:00):
Another reason why I worked for so manydifferent photographers, I would work for
them one time and learn how they treatedpeople, how they ran their productions.
And it was just like, hellno, I am not going to get
involved with this person again.
With photographers like that, whomaybe they, they booked me and
then they try to get me to signan agreement on the shoot day.
(45:24):
What am I going to do?
Walk out?
I probably should have.
But I didn't.
I caved in and I signed the agreement.
And then I would just literally mailthem information about workman's
comp and all of that afterwards.
And I would send that in with my invoice.
And I'd be like, here you go.
And what you're doing is not legal, dude.
(45:45):
Laughter.
Mica (45:47):
I worked in theater and I was so naive when I went into working
freelance, I thought I was goingto be doing like all these big like
productions and yada, yada, yada.
And I found myself working for a lotof like small mom and pop theaters.
There was one show where it waslike water it was there was a scene
(46:08):
where It's like it's raining and so
Christina (46:11):
Oh my God, so much liability with that.
Mica (46:14):
So much it's so
Christina (46:16):
Was an attorney in a previous life because I'm like,
I immediately go down that road.
Mica (46:20):
It's so like they had a live band and there were like monitors
and and so like we're setting thisall up and the stage manager is
telling me what my job was to do andI was just like looking at her and
I was like, I don't want to do this.
She's like, well, you know,this is what we hired you to do.
And I was like I guess you'regoing to have to fire me because
(46:42):
I don't want to get electrocuted.
This is a lot of electronicsand you have actors on stage and
I'm like, I saw Pet Cemetery.
Part two.
I know what happened to that actress.
I'm not trying to get electrocuted.
I was like, y'all are crazy.
They ended up havingme do a different job.
But then, looking back on it yearslater, it could have really gone wrong.
(47:02):
I could have really got andI didn't know any better.
If I hadn't spoken up for myself andsaid, I really don't want to do this,
and I don't feel comfortable doingthis, imagine the kind of Danger.
I was putting myself in.
And so it's just scary.
So like assisting all of the, all of thesedifferent photographers, that's how you
found your way into food photography.
(47:24):
What was it about food photographythat stood out more than all
of the other genres and niches?
Christina (47:31):
What I really liked most about working on the food
jobs was it took patience.
It was a much slower paceand really detail oriented.
Not that other types of shooting aren't,but, I absolutely hated the fashion stuff.
I only did a few assisting jobs with that.
I don't have that attitude ortemperament to deal with that.
(47:54):
And I don't like how people aretreated on a lot of those sets,
at least the ones that I was on.
So the food world.
Pretty much a lot of people working onthose jobs are foodies, and I love food.
It was fascinating and fun, andseeing what the food stylists did
was just always amazing to me.
What they could do with certainfoods and, and how they could turn
something look like brown mushinto something really fantastic.
(48:17):
So I love that aspect of it.
And prop styling and seeingwhat the prop stylists would
do and how they did their job.
It just really clicked for me.
I was like, okay, this is thisis what I'm resonating with.
And I, and I would not have figuredthat out, or maybe I would have,
(48:38):
but it probably would have takenme a lot longer to figure that
out had I not done assisting.
I was working with a lot ofphotographers who did Los
Angeles magazine back in the day.
A lot of food magazinesand stuff like that.
So I really got to see some beautifulrecipes get created and styled.
Then lit fully in the studio as ifit was outside and stuff like that.
(49:02):
So I, I really clicked with allof those weird things that we
have to do as a food shooter.
It's fun.
Mica (49:10):
What's a misconception that people have about food photography
still after all these years?
Christina (49:19):
I'm sure you've experienced this too, but when you're working
with a new client, they alwayssay, all of this for one shot?
And it's like, yeah, dude,yeah, we need a lot of food.
Where don't get stingy on menow and only give me one pie if
we're going to photograph a pie.
I need like 10 pies, don't be stingy like
Mica (49:39):
Hey, there's
Christina (49:41):
Yeah.
So I don't think that people realize orthey think that we're miracle workers.
That we can just take this one tinylittle amount of food and make it
somehow spread and, and get bigger.
And then just become this beautiful thing.
It's a collaboration.
It takes a lot of talent and a foodstylist, ideally a prop stylist, if
(50:03):
you have the budget, and then ourphotography knowledge and lighting.
So when we're working with clientswho, haven't hired pros before.
That's the biggest education that weneed to do is to basically totally enroll
them in the idea of, yeah, you wantit to look like it does on my website.
There's a price for that.
And it's going to take some timeand some resources and People.
(50:28):
Staff.
Mica (50:29):
There's a lot of hand holding.
I assisted on a shoot where it was likea pizza shoot and we went through, gosh
almost a hundred to a hundred pizzas.
It was a two day shoot.
I told my friends and they werelike, that's a lot of pizza.
So I'm like well, the more peopleon an agency's team you have.
Let's say you have eight people,that's eight different opinions
(50:51):
and you got to please eight people.
And if one person doesn't like howone pepperoni looks guess what?
You got to scrap it.
And do it again.
And it can be pretty tedious becauseof how many people are involved.
Christina (51:05):
Yeah, that always comes to play.
And when I do work with the largercrews like that, larger productions I
make it very clear in the beginning,we need to have one person on set
that is controlling the creative.
And I explained to them, I know you'vebeen on set with five of you or six
of you, and while you're arguingabout this or that, the food's dying.
(51:27):
It's not an efficient way to shoot.
Now, there will be times where you'rejust going to have agency people butt
heads, and again, when they walk into thestudio, I'm like picking up the vibes.
Like, okay, what typeof crew do we have here?
Do they like each other?
Is there animosity and stuff like that?
And then when there's animosityand there's egos battling out
(51:48):
like creative director versusart director, that happens a lot.
Then that's when I will, basicallybe like, okay, listen, we'll shoot
it your way and then we'll shoot ityour way if it's not a huge deal.
And then y'all can figure this and youcan have this fight outside the studio.
We got to move on.
It's to appease the argument.
I'm not gonna have theargument in the studio anymore.
(52:08):
Y'all can do this after here.
We're gonna shoot it this way.
We're gonna shoot it that way Move on.
Like just I'm not gonna charge youextra for it Yeah, you're going
to pick one of them, so I'm notgoing to charge you extra for it.
Stop being 12 years old and figure it out.
Like someone wants to be the winner,you know, and it's like, Oh God, okay.
Mica (52:27):
I want to talk about your kaleidoscope of food series.
And I think that'll be a niceway to, to, to close out.
One thing I, I loved is that, youtalked about how this series is a
celebration of what nature has givenus from the earth and from the oceans.
You mentioned that your commercialwork took you away from why you got
(52:49):
into shooting food in the first place.
So I wanted to hear more aboutthat and about the series.
What you love about it.
And how it pushed you andchallenged you as an artist.
Christina (53:02):
Yeah, so I've always done fine art photography
while doing commercial work.
I think it's important that you do have.
The kaleidoscope of food came out of that.
I actually started doing it indays of film with four by five
film because it's so easy to shootmultiples of film, flip them, rotate
them, and then re photograph them.
So that, that's actually how it started.
(53:22):
With the digital era, itjust became 30 times easier.
And so it was really just like, firstread of a lot of the kaleidoscopes
is just bright, colorful textures.
And then when you get deeper into it,then you realize that's cauliflower
or that's octopus or whatever.
Mica (53:39):
I like the scallion snowflake.
I thought that was so cool.
Christina (53:43):
Yeah.
So that was really just playing withfood and it's beautiful to begin with,
but then turning it into this otherthing that's also really beautiful.
That's really what that was allabout because my commercial work was
so hardcore advertising and it wasreally far removed from photographing
food that just came out of the field.
(54:04):
It was really far from that.
So my kaleidoscope work I would go tothe farmer's markets and I would buy
whatever beautiful things inspired me.
And then I would come back to thestudio and do still life work with it.
In some of the still life workwould be portfolio pieces.
Some of those became componentsof the kaleidoscope stuff.
It's really just sort of a reminderof where our food really does
(54:28):
originate from and celebrating that.
Mica (54:31):
I love that.
I love that.
You mentioned about like portfoliowork and I just push that so much to
new photographers, just photographers.
And I just tell them, yourportfolio work is the playground.
That's the commercial work,your advertising work.
That's, that's your classroom.
My last question for you is orsecond to last actually, is what has
(54:55):
been, the most rewarding part of,of that educational journey for you?
Christina (55:02):
I recognize that with having the experience I did working for so
many different photographers, it really,really gave me an advantage over a lot of
my competitors when I was starting out.
I worked with a lot of photographerswho were really sincere and supportive.
(55:23):
I'm still good friends with a fewof them to this day, even though it
was like 30 years ago, actually 35years ago, it was a long time ago.
I always just hoped that I could bethat for someone else because, God,
I worked for so many photographerswho were just like, not nice.
They were so like, pretty mean.
(55:43):
So for me with the club, it was definitelyabout, there's so much bad information
out there, incorrect information.
People feel that now they don't needto have an education to do photography.
And I can't imagine my world if I,without my my education that I have.
(56:06):
So I want the club to be a resource forpeople where they know, first of all, I
didn't just pick up a camera yesterday, soI have a little bit of experience with it,
and I can just give them my experience.
Let them know this is whatI have experience personally.
This is what I went through.
Just hopefully making it quicker forpeople to figure out what should be the
(56:29):
next step for them in their photo career.
Learning photography is extremely hard.
You're learning technical things.
You're learning business.
You're learning artistic stuff.
And you're learning how to work withpeople, random strangers sometimes.
These are a lot of skills andit takes time to navigate that.
(56:52):
So I always just say to people who arejust starting out, you're not going
to learn all the things at one time.
It's not possible.
It's overwhelming.
You're going to get burnt out.
You're going to get confused.
And you're just going to want to drop it.
it's not going to serveanyone if that happens.
So you got to just focuson one thing at a time.
With the club, with the things Ireally always talk about, you have
(57:16):
to determine who the clients arethat you want to shoot for first.
So I teach things verydifferently from a lot of people.
Instead of just go out, shooteverything that you can, shoot
what you want and do that.
That's great.
That's on the side, butyou have to flip it.
You have got to know who you'retargeting and then you build a body of
(57:36):
work that's going to get that person.
It's 10 times easier whenyou think of it this way.
I can always tell when I'm working witha photographer who was in a program and
they did the random assignments and theserandom assignments become their portfolio.
There's no integration, there's no flow,it literally is a book of assignments.
(58:00):
That's not going to get you work.
You have to have aconsistent look and feel.
You have to know exactlywho you're going after.
Once you determine that, then itmakes it really a lot easier to make a
portfolio that will attract that, thattarget market that you're going after.
Mica (58:18):
One thing you mentioned about like programs they teach you how to
be a photographer, but they don'tteach you how to be a photographer,
like the business side of it.
I feel like my education at, because I,I got associates in photography as well.
I feel like that was like step one.
Oftentimes, I've noticed that theseeducational programs at least in an
(58:41):
institution, is that they guaranteethat when you're done with our program,
you're going to leave a photographer.
And I think that that's misleading.
I feel like this is step one.
You've learned the foundations and thebasics of how to be a photographer.
And now the next step of youreducation, whether it be assisting
(59:01):
or whether you get a mentorship withanother experienced photographer,
like that's the next step, but you'renot going to just launch straight
into photography right after this.
Christina (59:12):
We're definitely not.
it is a profession that I believeneeds to be with, do it with
apprenticing and have an apprenticeship.
But people don't want to do that now.
They just want the quick fix.
They go to YouTube, they think theycan get all their answers there
or maybe they buy a random coursehere and there, and then they have
no idea what they don't know yet.
So then they do a job and thenit goes horribly and then they're
(59:35):
like, Oh my God, what, what?
It's
Mica (59:38):
It's like, this is what it's like.
I don't want to do this.
Ah, ah.
So my, my last question for you.
What do you hope people learn fromtoday's episode and where can they follow
you and support you and learn from you?
Christina (59:55):
Hopefully with today's episode if you haven't tried assisting
or working with someone else before,maybe this could inspire you to do that.
It's incredibly fun and you getto see how other people do things.
It's so valuable.
It's just, it's a great, it's agreat, I can't promote it more.
You can follow me on FoodPhotography Blog and also of
(01:00:17):
course the Food Photography Club.
I also have a Facebook group withover 6, 000 members in there where
we just, people just go in and askquestions about food photography.
I'm in there every day.
Mica (01:00:28):
Oh man, I can't thank you enough for being a guest on this show.
I loved everythingabout this conversation.
I feel like I could talk to youfor 20, 000 years about life
and family and photography.
I am picking up what you are putting down.
So thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Christina (01:00:50):
Oh, and thank you so much.
It's been great talking and rememberingall these things about way back when.
Mica (01:00:58):
Thank you again for being on the show and for being the most
amazing human being on the planet.
Yay.
Christina (01:01:05):
I appreciate it very much.
And I think it's importantwhat you're doing to support
other photographers as well.
It's awesome.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.