Episode 60 - The 3 Pillars Of Online Reputation Management With Cassandra Webster of Consumer Fusion
February 12, 2024 • 27 mins
Welcome to another insightful episode of the Service MVP Podcast. The talk series brings you tips and strategies to elevate your business straight from industry experts. In this episode, host Joe Crisara, America's Service Coach, interviews Cassandra Webster from Consumer Fusion for an enlightening discussion on online reputation management — an aspect of running a successful service business that is crucial yet often overlooked.
The conversation revolves around the three pillars of online reputation management, namely, review generation, responding to reviews, and handling negative reviews. Cassandra’s expert knowledge and experience in these areas provide listeners with unique insights and strategies for effectively managing their online reputations. This episode offers an invaluable perspective on how reviews, both good and bad, can shape a business's online image.
The latter part of the episode delves into the specific dynamics of negative reviews. Cassandra unveils the true role of criticism and how they serve as a wake-up call for businesses, pushing them back on the right track. While legitimate criticism is beneficial for growth, the conversation highlights how to navigate negative feedback from non-legitimate sources.
Pulling back the curtains on the professional world of online reputation management, Cassandra discusses why professional assistance in managing reviews is indispensable and how her team at Consumer Fusion handles illegitimate reviews. Towards the end, she emphasizes that online reputation management doesn't stop at handling negative reviews, but extends to establishing a positive brand image online.
This insightful episode featuring Cassandra Webster is a must-listen for all business owners eager to solidify their online reputation. Tune in today for a glimpse into the world of professional review management that holds the potential to boost your business.
Check out another fantastic episode of The Service MVP Podcast...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Service MVP Podcast. My name is Joe Crisara, America's Service Coach.
I'm here today with Cassandra Webster from Consumer Fusion.
Cassandra, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Hi there,
Joe. I'm doing great. Thank you. Excited to be here. I appreciate you having
me. Well, thank you for being here.
Cassandra's going to talk today about something that's sorely needed.
(00:25):
And I think sometimes in the sea
of people who try to help with management reviews and how to get reviews,
there's a lost part of it, which is the three pillars of online reputation management,
which is what the subject of today's meeting is going to be.
How do we look at the three pillars that Cassandra and Consumer Fusion have
(00:48):
identified as things that contractors and service professionals need to look
at to evaluate the way they manage the online reputation of their company?
So, Cassandra, let's get started.
Tell me, how did you ever get involved with this business of turning bad reviews
into good ones or try to erase bad reviews and things like that?
(01:09):
Tell us about that. How did you ever get involved? Yes.
Let's dive in. And so I actually got my start in home services kind of by accident.
I started with a digital marketing company selling home services,
businesses like SEO, PPC, websites, talking about online reputation management.
And so at first, I was really scared because I didn't have that background in the trades.
(01:32):
So I thought, okay, these business owners, I'm like in my 20s at that point, I'm a woman of color.
I'm like, these business owners
are going to see me as a fraud and that I don't know what I'm doing. it.
But I immediately fell in love with the trades because it was exactly the opposite.
They were welcoming. They were willing to educate me.
And I just felt this kinship because I feel like business owners are very open
(01:55):
to sharing their stories. They're hardworking.
They care about taking care of their families and their techs.
And that really resonated with me because I'm like oldest of three,
raised by a single mom, saw her working multiple jobs.
I was a young mom, single mom at 18. teen. And I didn't necessarily have the
pedigree on paper for some of the roles I was in.
(02:16):
So I always prided myself on being the hardest working person in the room.
So when I got in the trades, and I was hearing these business owners share their
stories, they were willing to teach me because I was like a sponge,
like even outside of digital marketing, I was like, I want to hear about your
recruitment struggles.
And I want to hear about how are you training your techs? And I think they were
like, who is this girl over here that's asking us all these questions about
(02:36):
our businesses, but they were willing to teach me. And I had some really great mentors.
So I was in that space. I left home services for a little bit because I wanted
to see what else was out there.
So I did a couple things, went to a big corporate tech company and realized
pretty quickly that I just wasn't a fit for that industry.
I had a great manager. I had a great team.
(02:57):
But big corporate America, I just didn't feel like I could be my authentic self.
So I was I was like, okay, where was I happy? Where was I able to just be me?
And that's when I was in digital marketing, when I was in home services.
So I was like, all right, how can I get back to home services?
And it was just a matter of timing where the opportunity came along for me to join Consumer Fusion.
(03:18):
And they brought me in to head up the home services division over here.
And I fell in love with the culture.
We have this incredible product where we're helping businesses enhance their
reputation, drive more potential customers through their online reputation management.
And so I've been super happy. I've been here for the past almost five months now.
Yeah, I mean, definitely it's a great field because the online reputation management
(03:43):
is an extension of the brand.
It's really what it means is that the brand is promising something to consumers,
and it is the brand executing that promise by getting better reviews and making sure that the reviews,
the way the consumers aspect, what they see the company like,
is matching up with the vision that the company has. Does that make sense?
(04:06):
Yeah, 100%. So let's go into the three pillars of online reputation management, if you don't mind.
And what's pillar number one? What would you like to cover first on pillar number
one? Pillar number one, I think there'd be a focus on review generation.
Because when it comes to having a solid online reputation management strategy,
you can't just focus on one thing.
(04:27):
You need to have a full, solid strategy.
And when it comes to review generation, it's all about having a steady stream
of happy customers that are leaving reviews. reviews.
That's super important because not only are your potential customers looking
at your reviews, I mean, it is what they're using.
It's your word of mouth engine, those positive reviews.
It's determining whether or not that potential customer is going to call you.
(04:50):
Because in fact, 90% of consumers, they're looking at reviews.
They want to see what our customers are saying about you before they even pick
up the phone and decide to book that job with you.
So it really is is a critical piece of the puzzle.
And sometimes the frequency of those reviews gets overlooked because I have
business owners that tell me like, oh, I'm at a 4.8 or I'm at a 4.9 right now
(05:14):
at Google. So I don't need to improve.
But then I look at them online and I'm like, your last review was six months
ago or eight months ago or nine months ago.
If that's your business, you're doing yourself a disservice because Google is
also looking very closely at your reviews.
They're only looking for new relevant content.
So if you're not getting consistent, positive reviews, you're not giving Google
(05:35):
anything new to consider when they're looking at what businesses they should
prioritize in the local search.
And you're not giving your potential customers anything new to consider either.
So a couple of- Yeah, you know, I think on that, Cassandra, is that putting a point up there,
if, you know, as a consumer, if I look and say a business and say,
(05:56):
wow, they haven't had a review for six months, to me, that is a bad review.
It's like an unspoken bad review. It's like, what, nobody's reviewed it in six months?
That must mean something's wrong over there. Or, you know, there must be a sleep
at the wheel or whatever. So it kind of puts a shadow of doubt in my head if
there's not a current review that's up there. Does that make sense, sir?
(06:18):
Am I on the right track? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, you're in the right track
because the data even shows if there's a review that's older than a month old,
I believe that 70% of consumers are not going to see those reviews as relevant
because they, like you said, they want to see those reviews that are a little bit more frequent.
And when it comes to, sometimes I get this question, well, fine,
how do I generate more positive reviews?
(06:41):
Okay, good. Some of the tips that I like to share is definitely make sure that
you are asking for that follow-up.
You might have just had the happiest customer in the world, but if you're not
asking for that review, more than likely they're not going to leave it,
even though they just had a really great experience.
Yeah. You know, it's a critical part. We do a thing called Happy Call 2.0.
(07:03):
A critical element is to ask how many stars would you have given us?
And if the answer is five stars, well, can I send you a link?
If I sent you a link, what would happen then? And truthfully,
I'll tell you what, Cassandra, we're a product of your product at Consumer Fusion.
In December, we had 30 reviews starting in December 1st. Now,
(07:25):
here we are in middle of January.
I think we're at 165 reviews since we've done it because we just now make it part of the process.
I think you just kind of embed it into the process. Does that make sense,
Cassandra? Yes. No, that's exactly chef's kiss, Joe.
I love to hear it and congrats on upping the number that quickly.
But yes, the best performing businesses that I work with, they make it a whole
culture shift where they get their techs involved.
(07:48):
They train them while they're in the home. Like you mentioned,
they have a process in place.
That way, when that tech is in the home, they're much more likely because they
have that training, because they're potentially.
Incentivized that they want to say, Hey, if I gave you that five-star experience,
would you mind leaving me a review and mentioning my name, it's a whole culture
(08:08):
shift and it benefits the business in the long run.
Hmm. That's really good. That's a, I think that's it. Then just creating the process.
That's it. And, uh, and I think the people, what people don't realize without
a current review, uh, it's in essence, no current review equals a bad review,
I would say. And like you said, 70, that's a great statistic.
70% of the people, uh, lose confidence at that point that this is even relevant.
(08:32):
These reviews are so old. I can't even have any faith in it. Wow.
Well, pillar number one is certainly powerful. example what let's
move on to pillar number two Cassandra what is that one so
pillar number two is how are you responding to reviews
because I speak with business owners where sometimes they're
only responding to the negative reviews and you're
leaving a missed opportunity there because another metric that Google is looking
(08:55):
at when they're prioritizing businesses and local search is they're looking
at how is the business owner responding so it's not only Google it's potential
customers where they want to see a business owner that is active,
engaged, and engaged with their customer base.
Responding to that review goes a long way. And also a little trick that I like
(09:18):
to share that can help with the local SEO efforts is using keywords that are
related to your business and your response.
So namely, it's things like your business name, what's the service that you
provided, and where did you provide that service?
So that could look for you, Joe. that could look like, hey, thank you for choosing
Service MVP for the sales summit coaching in Culver City.
(09:42):
We appreciate your business. Mm-hmm.
Something like that helps you. I love that. I love that. I just took notes on
that one, you know, because I'm going to tell you a secret.
One of my secret indulgences is responding myself to every one of the reviews.
I just, I do a magic moment and I got to add that piece in there because I just
say thanks for the effort of doing the training,
(10:04):
but I could put in there like keywords, like thanks for taking the effort to
do your service, your HVAC service technician training, which would be a keyword
that would show up for a search. Wow. wow, you just, you just enhanced.
And truthfully, the reviews have helped. And we have been the increase in lead
count for us has been significant, even in the one and one and a half months we've been doing it.
(10:25):
But I'm going to take note of that the keyword when you respond.
So this is a chance for you to kind of market yourself for free,
whether it's a good review or bad review, I guess you could say,
let's make sure we are specific about the kind of trade we do.
And hey, thanks Thanks for calling us for your heating no heat call.
And I guess that would be something like that. Or having no hot water call would
(10:48):
be, you know, because probably somebody would search.
What are search terms people would use and embed that into your response?
Cassandra, that's worth the price of this whole webinar, this whole podcast. Yes, winner.
All right. That's value right there that people can do on their own. That's amazing.
I love it. Yeah. And that's just a quick little tweak. Like you said,
(11:10):
Joe, it helps when it comes to
you're using those keywords that potential customers aren't looking for.
But then also, if you have potential customers that are perusing your reviews,
you're able to answer the question about what kind of services you provide before
they've even gone to your website.
They're able to see, oh, wow, okay, they do HVAC services and they service my city.
(11:31):
I get that question answered and I just saw all your positive reviews without
me even clicking to go to your website.
That is amazing. Amazing. And what better way to get an entry to my company
than to read a happy customer is the first thing you see, right?
That would be better than my website would be to say a happy customer on Google
review or Facebook review or whatnot.
(11:53):
That's brilliant. I love that one. And then let's go on to pillar number three.
I'm not sure if hopefully everybody's keeping track of these because these are
really good golden nuggets that Cassandra's, even though she's a newbie to the
trades, She's definitely helping all of us create value.
Cassandra, what's number three, pillar number three?
So number three is dealing with negative reviews. Negative reviews can be a
(12:17):
huge headache for business owners that are trying to have a positive online reputation.
And there's two different types of negative reviews. There's legitimate negative
reviews, which in the course of having a business, negative reviews are going to happen.
There might be a mistake, someone has an issue, and there's an opportunity for
you to respond in a calm, apologetic, empathetic way.
(12:41):
I know I already spoke about review responses, but this is specific to negative
reviews, is that you want to express a desire to resolve the situation quickly
and just be professional.
In my time that I've been doing this, I've seen some doozies of like all caps and explicatives.
And I get it. It's emotional because when you're putting your heart and your
(13:03):
soul and all your hard work into your business and you get a review from a customer
where you know they're lying, Of course, there's going to be that emotional reaction,
but you have to check that emotion at the door and be able to put that to the
side and respond in a professional manner.
I can't say that enough because then it devalues that negative review to your
(13:24):
other potential customers that might be taking a look at how you're handling negative reviews.
Yeah, I think it's a chance for you to show up with character to show how the
company responds to these things. So listen, I think everybody knows that nobody's perfect, right?
And so it is an indicator of the kind of service I'm going to get.
(13:46):
Like when I teach, I'm not sure if it's the right way you can evaluate me.
I say, I always say, first of all, thank people that they took the time and
effort to give you this feedback, right? That's something I always say first.
And then tell them that, hey, we definitely are, we're disappointed that we fell short.
If it's a legitimate review, right?
Right. Those are the ones that I think, those are the ones that I think.
(14:08):
Most of the forward-thinking contractors appreciate, truthfully,
somebody who is giving you negative feedback because it kind of is a wake-up call.
The bell's ringing to get your team back on track if it's legitimate.
You know, the ones that get in people's crowd, though, is the ex-employee or
something like that where it's not even a legitimate customer.
(14:30):
It's just somebody who says something like that.
I'm not sure if you want to talk more about it, if you could help us talk more about that.
That that's gotta be like because i don't hear well you'll go
email google or whatever and tell them this stuff i
mean it's such a it's i don't
want to say the word but it's the b word uh yes yeah and that's what i get nicely
saying it's like the b word to go back and i'm going to talk to google about
(14:54):
this they're not going to respond to anything and it's so frustrating because
i mean i can't hear the pain that you probably see with contractors like almost
like tears in their eyes that.
I can't believe we worked so hard
and we get some dude who's probably a competitor or something like that.
Tell us a little bit more about that part of it. I think legitimate ones,
you thank people, you tell them we're going to call you, we're going to make
(15:19):
sure we're disappointed as well and we fell short in value or your schedule
or whatever it is that we did wrong.
We're going to get back on track. I'm going to call you right away and I'll
return my call and And I'll definitely get back on track with this right away.
I think the consumers all say, now that's somebody I can trust that I can do.
When something goes wrong, I know in a way it's demonstrating what do we do.
(15:42):
It's probably more of a real marketing thing than anything. I've had people
tell other contractors that I've trained that I'm going to hire you because
I saw the way you responded to a bad review.
I've actually heard that before. And you probably have too, right? Oh, yes. I have too.
And me, even as a consumer, if I look at the negative reviews,
most consumers, they look at the negative. reviews first.
If I see a business owner that is not very nice or they're accusatory or they're
(16:07):
very highly defensive, for me as a potential customer, I look at that response
and think, oof, that business owner sounds like a jerk.
So I'm going to go on to the next one. Just based off of that.
I get you. I get you. I get you.
Let's talk about those unnerving reviews, though. The ones that are like, who the heck is this guy?
(16:27):
There's no way he's a customer. or he, it looks like a competitor.
It looks like an ex-employee. It looks like somebody who's trying to intentionally bring ill will.
I think we all feel a sense of violation and that does get emotional.
I think that does get our, you know, I think it's like for a normal person,
it doesn't, just like the life goes on.
(16:47):
But when you're a business owner and you put everything into this,
your life stops on the day you get one of those.
Does it make sense there? and it's oh yeah this is your baby that you have worked
on and you know worked tirelessly on so when you get a review where it's a situation
like that where it's not legitimate,
it boils your blood because you're like, what in the F is going on?
They weren't even a customer.
(17:09):
So let's talk about that because legitimate reviews are one thing,
but when it's an illegitimate review, that's potentially turning away potential
customers when that's the sort of trash that shouldn't even be up there in the first place.
And a lot of consumers, when they're signing up for a Google or a Yelp or a
Facebook, they don't realize there's a set of terms and conditions that they're
(17:29):
signing off on. It's kind of like you have the app on, right?
It's like those those iOS updates. I don't know about you. I have never read
them once. I just agree, agree, agree.
Most consumers are like that. But the thing is, when it comes to reviews,
if they're leaving a review that's in violation of the terms and conditions
of review site, that review is grounds for it, first of all,
(17:50):
to be reported, and then potentially to be removed.
But let's talk about what it means to be an illegitimate review. So a couple of examples.
One I see a lot in home services is somebody that
didn't have a direct experience with you so the way that might
look is oh my mom used to service mvp and
it was a terrible experience or uh i was
(18:11):
out of town while my wife had service mvp come and she was not happy with the
treatment see that all the time right situations like that that reviewer did
not have the direct experience with you so therefore it's in violation of the
term get it i get it yeah that's that is one that is like the daughter daughter of the senior citizen.
Like they came to my mom's house and took advantage of my mom or something like that. Right.
(18:36):
Yeah. We see it all the time. Or you would have been mentioned one extra current
employees trying to slander the business name. Uh, that's a no,
no violates the terms and conditions.
Also another one that I see a lot in home services too, is a picture of the
truck and somebody saying like, Oh, this truck cut me off on the freeway or
they were parked in front of my mailbox for half the day, which those ones I'm like,
(18:58):
If that really happened, wouldn't you have picked up the phone and called instead
of taking a picture while you're driving?
But things like that we see very often, also using derogatory language,
using any sort of personal information.
There's all these instances that are in violation of the terms and conditions.
And it's something that as a business owner, they can go in and flag that review
(19:21):
and attempt to go through the review site to get it removed themselves.
Else, or they can partner with a company like Consumer Fusion,
that's what we're experts in.
We are experts in going in, removing illegitimate negative reviews.
And it's not something we're new at. We've been doing it for over 10 years now.
Yeah, I think it's something that is so important. I think it needs to be done
(19:43):
by a professional, truthfully.
Because I would say our instinct, even when it comes to things like HR or things
like this, this is sort of in that that category of the contractor or the service professional,
you know, the impulse is,
you know, to say something that seems legitimate with a normal conversation,
(20:06):
but it's not something that you should, in a professional environment like this,
you're probably going to say something the wrong way, right?
Or you might over threaten, you come off like, yeah, you know,
this person, the way they're talking, I could see why they get bad reviews or whatever type of thing.
So you You might even offend, even the request to get it down is so emotional or negative.
(20:28):
It could create a negative possibility. So, I mean, Cassandra, that's really great.
And so, is that process, is that like, how lengthy is that process?
Could you explain like how long does it take?
How much effort goes in on your end to help a contractor get that done?
(20:49):
Like, I know it's not easy to do this business you're doing.
Tell us a little bit about how much time and effort goes in on your team's part on that.
Yeah, I mean, it definitely takes a lot of time. I mean, thankfully,
at Consumer Fusion, we have an incredible team here. Our average tenure is,
I think, like eight years.
So we got a backend team that has been doing this for a long time.
And it is a process. I mean, depending on the review site, typically the terms
(21:13):
and conditions for a lot of these review sites is pretty similar,
but the process can be dramatically different. So take Google, for instance.
With Google, it's more than just flagging the dispute.
That's kind of just the first step. What we actually go and do is we create
a dispute case on the business owner's behalf.
And then our team is working with Google moderators, which a lot of times they have them in India. yet.
(21:35):
So we're dealing with the moderators, whether it be on the phone,
chat, email to go through that dispute process.
Google doesn't give us any sort of follow up. So we're having to check in.
And then ultimately, it's up to Google to determine whether or not they're going
to approve that request. And usually takes multiple attempts.
So Google gives you an unlimited number of attempts. On average,
(21:57):
for us to get an illegitimate negative review taken down, it takes three to
five attempts. attempts but we're relentless.
I think our record here has been 28 attempts over a nine-month period and we got it taken down.
It doesn't usually take that long but it really is case by case and up to the
review site whether or not they're going to take it on that first go-around
(22:17):
or do we got to keep hammering them until we get it.
Well two things I'm hearing here are every website like Yelp,
Google, Facebook, whatever it is, they all have terms and conditions that are
unique And I think, and remember, you're just an HVAC guy or a plumber or electrician.
For you to remember, okay, let me go into my catalog of terms and conditions
(22:39):
and make sure I respond to this the right way, it's just not going to happen,
right? So that's just one thing right there.
So having a professional to understand what the unique terms and conditions are.
And number two, as you mentioned, the moderators of Google or Yelp or whatever.
You know, they most likely can see the difference between an amateur asking
me to do this or a professional who's doing it.
(23:01):
And they probably see a certain rhythm of the way the professional would respond
to this and say, hey, I'm up against,
I'm hearing from a professional service on this that is, I better make sure
I act on this one first because this is, these people are going to be more legitimately
going down a road that's going to follow those terms and conditions.
(23:22):
I better make sure that to keep my job as the moderator that I'm adhering to
those terms and conditions, right? Right.
And so, uh, and so that is, uh, to me, that's, that's the difference, right?
Between an amateur and a professional, I'm not saying you couldn't go through
it and dig in, but Hey, let me put it this way while you're trying to figure
out the terms and conditions and then writing that response,
(23:43):
what are you going to use chat TPT or something or the watered down response
you're going to get from there.
And then what you're going to fire it off to the thing and then schedule an
appointment to keep following up for over and over again. Meanwhile.
What's your current business? Is it review management or is it HVAC or plumbing?
How much money do you think is being lost on owners digging into this as opposed
(24:03):
to working in a normal business?
Time is money. Time is money. Like you said, having to go through and figure
out, hey, what category should I choose?
How should I write this? Oops, I chose the wrong category. It got rejected.
Let me go in and do it again. Again, who has time for that?
And even if you do have time for that, isn't it better spent doing something
else that's going to help grow the business or other priorities that you want
(24:24):
to focus on versus having to follow up with the review site?
One thing I can tell you is every minute I spend with Cassandra Webster has
always been a moment of joy.
And I've always had nothing, but I always learn something every time I spend
even a few minutes with you.
I learn something new. You know, Cassandra, I just want to say thank you for
(24:45):
this podcast and this great information.
And I really think, you know, I definitely would recommend everybody use this
service if you're trying to keep your because you just never know when it comes
up. And when it does come up, it can be awful.
And I want to make sure that you are supported.
Hey, my advice would be don't wait for a bad review to get a service like this
that can help you with it because you don't just help with bad reviews.
(25:08):
Reputation management. It's the whole thing, right? And you help with every
part of it. Is that correct?
Yeah, we also help with review generation. So keeping on building that solid,
positive foundation, review responses, because we really believe that you can't
just focus on one aspect of online reputation management.
You've got to make a focus on all areas because if you're not putting focus
(25:29):
and your competitor down the road is putting in more effort and focus,
they're going to be taking away customers and market share from you.
So we want to help businesses just go from good to great.
And to me, if you're a company that is trying to grow and try to be a quality
company, this part of it is the number one piece of market.
I think branding is a big part of it. Number one, but I'd say number two,
(25:50):
let's make sure this is a kind of, I wasn't sure if you call this grassroots
or not, but I would say it's not really a, it's not a paid thing you're doing.
It's, it's a, you know, a, what do you call it?
It's something that's generated from the ground up from, that's why I call it the grassroots.
I think it's, you got clients giving giving you great reviews and there's no better form.
There's no higher honor than when a client tells the general public that your
(26:12):
company is great and no greater pain than when you get the opposite.
And I'm definitely glad that people like you are out there, Cassandra.
So how can people learn about consumer fusion so they can enroll your services
before they get a bad review?
That's what I'd like to see is people get this done before they get a bad review.
How do we engage in your services?
Thank you so much, Joe. And again, thank you so much for the opportunity for
(26:33):
having me on here. if you want to get a hold of me and I'd love to learn,
I just want to educate and learn about business owners.
Even if there's no next steps for us, I'm more than happy to do an audit and
see where are those areas of opportunity for the business.
So you can reach me via email. I'm at Cassandra at consumerfusion.com or I'm
really active on LinkedIn and Facebook.
So you can just look me up Cassandra Webster and shoot me a message that way.
(26:57):
Good, good. So one more time on that? How do we get ahold of you?
So email is Cassandra at consumerfusion.com, or you can just look up Cassandra
Webster on Facebook or LinkedIn, and you can shoot me a message that way too.
Great. If you need help, you can also come to me and I'll make sure I pass her
name along. I've got her personal contact. I can just forward that to anybody who needs that.
(27:18):
Highly recommend the service. And definitely, I think we've all learned something today.
Cassandra, thanks for being here. I really appreciate you. Thanks so much,
Joe. I appreciate Appreciate you too. You have a good rest of your day.
Thank you. All right. Take care.
Welcome to the Service MVP Podcast. My name is Joe Crisara, America's Service Coach.
I'm here today with Cassandra Webster from Consumer Fusion.
Cassandra, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Hi there,
Joe. I'm doing great. Thank you. Excited to be here. I appreciate you having
me. Well, thank you for being here.
Cassandra's going to talk today about something that's sorely needed.
(00:25):
And I think sometimes in the sea
of people who try to help with management reviews and how to get reviews,
there's a lost part of it, which is the three pillars of online reputation management,
which is what the subject of today's meeting is going to be.
How do we look at the three pillars that Cassandra and Consumer Fusion have
(00:48):
identified as things that contractors and service professionals need to look
at to evaluate the way they manage the online reputation of their company?
So, Cassandra, let's get started.
Tell me, how did you ever get involved with this business of turning bad reviews
into good ones or try to erase bad reviews and things like that?
(01:09):
Tell us about that. How did you ever get involved? Yes.
Let's dive in. And so I actually got my start in home services kind of by accident.
I started with a digital marketing company selling home services,
businesses like SEO, PPC, websites, talking about online reputation management.
And so at first, I was really scared because I didn't have that background in the trades.
(01:32):
So I thought, okay, these business owners, I'm like in my 20s at that point, I'm a woman of color.
I'm like, these business owners
are going to see me as a fraud and that I don't know what I'm doing. it.
But I immediately fell in love with the trades because it was exactly the opposite.
They were welcoming. They were willing to educate me.
And I just felt this kinship because I feel like business owners are very open
(01:55):
to sharing their stories. They're hardworking.
They care about taking care of their families and their techs.
And that really resonated with me because I'm like oldest of three,
raised by a single mom, saw her working multiple jobs.
I was a young mom, single mom at 18. teen. And I didn't necessarily have the
pedigree on paper for some of the roles I was in.
(02:16):
So I always prided myself on being the hardest working person in the room.
So when I got in the trades, and I was hearing these business owners share their
stories, they were willing to teach me because I was like a sponge,
like even outside of digital marketing, I was like, I want to hear about your
recruitment struggles.
And I want to hear about how are you training your techs? And I think they were
like, who is this girl over here that's asking us all these questions about
(02:36):
our businesses, but they were willing to teach me. And I had some really great mentors.
So I was in that space. I left home services for a little bit because I wanted
to see what else was out there.
So I did a couple things, went to a big corporate tech company and realized
pretty quickly that I just wasn't a fit for that industry.
I had a great manager. I had a great team.
(02:57):
But big corporate America, I just didn't feel like I could be my authentic self.
So I was I was like, okay, where was I happy? Where was I able to just be me?
And that's when I was in digital marketing, when I was in home services.
So I was like, all right, how can I get back to home services?
And it was just a matter of timing where the opportunity came along for me to join Consumer Fusion.
(03:18):
And they brought me in to head up the home services division over here.
And I fell in love with the culture.
We have this incredible product where we're helping businesses enhance their
reputation, drive more potential customers through their online reputation management.
And so I've been super happy. I've been here for the past almost five months now.
Yeah, I mean, definitely it's a great field because the online reputation management
(03:43):
is an extension of the brand.
It's really what it means is that the brand is promising something to consumers,
and it is the brand executing that promise by getting better reviews and making sure that the reviews,
the way the consumers aspect, what they see the company like,
is matching up with the vision that the company has. Does that make sense?
(04:06):
Yeah, 100%. So let's go into the three pillars of online reputation management, if you don't mind.
And what's pillar number one? What would you like to cover first on pillar number
one? Pillar number one, I think there'd be a focus on review generation.
Because when it comes to having a solid online reputation management strategy,
you can't just focus on one thing.
(04:27):
You need to have a full, solid strategy.
And when it comes to review generation, it's all about having a steady stream
of happy customers that are leaving reviews. reviews.
That's super important because not only are your potential customers looking
at your reviews, I mean, it is what they're using.
It's your word of mouth engine, those positive reviews.
It's determining whether or not that potential customer is going to call you.
(04:50):
Because in fact, 90% of consumers, they're looking at reviews.
They want to see what our customers are saying about you before they even pick
up the phone and decide to book that job with you.
So it really is is a critical piece of the puzzle.
And sometimes the frequency of those reviews gets overlooked because I have
business owners that tell me like, oh, I'm at a 4.8 or I'm at a 4.9 right now
(05:14):
at Google. So I don't need to improve.
But then I look at them online and I'm like, your last review was six months
ago or eight months ago or nine months ago.
If that's your business, you're doing yourself a disservice because Google is
also looking very closely at your reviews.
They're only looking for new relevant content.
So if you're not getting consistent, positive reviews, you're not giving Google
(05:35):
anything new to consider when they're looking at what businesses they should
prioritize in the local search.
And you're not giving your potential customers anything new to consider either.
So a couple of- Yeah, you know, I think on that, Cassandra, is that putting a point up there,
if, you know, as a consumer, if I look and say a business and say,
(05:56):
wow, they haven't had a review for six months, to me, that is a bad review.
It's like an unspoken bad review. It's like, what, nobody's reviewed it in six months?
That must mean something's wrong over there. Or, you know, there must be a sleep
at the wheel or whatever. So it kind of puts a shadow of doubt in my head if
there's not a current review that's up there. Does that make sense, sir?
(06:18):
Am I on the right track? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, you're in the right track
because the data even shows if there's a review that's older than a month old,
I believe that 70% of consumers are not going to see those reviews as relevant
because they, like you said, they want to see those reviews that are a little bit more frequent.
And when it comes to, sometimes I get this question, well, fine,
how do I generate more positive reviews?
(06:41):
Okay, good. Some of the tips that I like to share is definitely make sure that
you are asking for that follow-up.
You might have just had the happiest customer in the world, but if you're not
asking for that review, more than likely they're not going to leave it,
even though they just had a really great experience.
Yeah. You know, it's a critical part. We do a thing called Happy Call 2.0.
(07:03):
A critical element is to ask how many stars would you have given us?
And if the answer is five stars, well, can I send you a link?
If I sent you a link, what would happen then? And truthfully,
I'll tell you what, Cassandra, we're a product of your product at Consumer Fusion.
In December, we had 30 reviews starting in December 1st. Now,
(07:25):
here we are in middle of January.
I think we're at 165 reviews since we've done it because we just now make it part of the process.
I think you just kind of embed it into the process. Does that make sense,
Cassandra? Yes. No, that's exactly chef's kiss, Joe.
I love to hear it and congrats on upping the number that quickly.
But yes, the best performing businesses that I work with, they make it a whole
culture shift where they get their techs involved.
(07:48):
They train them while they're in the home. Like you mentioned,
they have a process in place.
That way, when that tech is in the home, they're much more likely because they
have that training, because they're potentially.
Incentivized that they want to say, Hey, if I gave you that five-star experience,
would you mind leaving me a review and mentioning my name, it's a whole culture
(08:08):
shift and it benefits the business in the long run.
Hmm. That's really good. That's a, I think that's it. Then just creating the process.
That's it. And, uh, and I think the people, what people don't realize without
a current review, uh, it's in essence, no current review equals a bad review,
I would say. And like you said, 70, that's a great statistic.
70% of the people, uh, lose confidence at that point that this is even relevant.
(08:32):
These reviews are so old. I can't even have any faith in it. Wow.
Well, pillar number one is certainly powerful. example what let's
move on to pillar number two Cassandra what is that one so
pillar number two is how are you responding to reviews
because I speak with business owners where sometimes they're
only responding to the negative reviews and you're
leaving a missed opportunity there because another metric that Google is looking
(08:55):
at when they're prioritizing businesses and local search is they're looking
at how is the business owner responding so it's not only Google it's potential
customers where they want to see a business owner that is active,
engaged, and engaged with their customer base.
Responding to that review goes a long way. And also a little trick that I like
(09:18):
to share that can help with the local SEO efforts is using keywords that are
related to your business and your response.
So namely, it's things like your business name, what's the service that you
provided, and where did you provide that service?
So that could look for you, Joe. that could look like, hey, thank you for choosing
Service MVP for the sales summit coaching in Culver City.
(09:42):
We appreciate your business. Mm-hmm.
Something like that helps you. I love that. I love that. I just took notes on
that one, you know, because I'm going to tell you a secret.
One of my secret indulgences is responding myself to every one of the reviews.
I just, I do a magic moment and I got to add that piece in there because I just
say thanks for the effort of doing the training,
(10:04):
but I could put in there like keywords, like thanks for taking the effort to
do your service, your HVAC service technician training, which would be a keyword
that would show up for a search. Wow. wow, you just, you just enhanced.
And truthfully, the reviews have helped. And we have been the increase in lead
count for us has been significant, even in the one and one and a half months we've been doing it.
(10:25):
But I'm going to take note of that the keyword when you respond.
So this is a chance for you to kind of market yourself for free,
whether it's a good review or bad review, I guess you could say,
let's make sure we are specific about the kind of trade we do.
And hey, thanks Thanks for calling us for your heating no heat call.
And I guess that would be something like that. Or having no hot water call would
(10:48):
be, you know, because probably somebody would search.
What are search terms people would use and embed that into your response?
Cassandra, that's worth the price of this whole webinar, this whole podcast. Yes, winner.
All right. That's value right there that people can do on their own. That's amazing.
I love it. Yeah. And that's just a quick little tweak. Like you said,
(11:10):
Joe, it helps when it comes to
you're using those keywords that potential customers aren't looking for.
But then also, if you have potential customers that are perusing your reviews,
you're able to answer the question about what kind of services you provide before
they've even gone to your website.
They're able to see, oh, wow, okay, they do HVAC services and they service my city.
(11:31):
I get that question answered and I just saw all your positive reviews without
me even clicking to go to your website.
That is amazing. Amazing. And what better way to get an entry to my company
than to read a happy customer is the first thing you see, right?
That would be better than my website would be to say a happy customer on Google
review or Facebook review or whatnot.
(11:53):
That's brilliant. I love that one. And then let's go on to pillar number three.
I'm not sure if hopefully everybody's keeping track of these because these are
really good golden nuggets that Cassandra's, even though she's a newbie to the
trades, She's definitely helping all of us create value.
Cassandra, what's number three, pillar number three?
So number three is dealing with negative reviews. Negative reviews can be a
(12:17):
huge headache for business owners that are trying to have a positive online reputation.
And there's two different types of negative reviews. There's legitimate negative
reviews, which in the course of having a business, negative reviews are going to happen.
There might be a mistake, someone has an issue, and there's an opportunity for
you to respond in a calm, apologetic, empathetic way.
(12:41):
I know I already spoke about review responses, but this is specific to negative
reviews, is that you want to express a desire to resolve the situation quickly
and just be professional.
In my time that I've been doing this, I've seen some doozies of like all caps and explicatives.
And I get it. It's emotional because when you're putting your heart and your
(13:03):
soul and all your hard work into your business and you get a review from a customer
where you know they're lying, Of course, there's going to be that emotional reaction,
but you have to check that emotion at the door and be able to put that to the
side and respond in a professional manner.
I can't say that enough because then it devalues that negative review to your
(13:24):
other potential customers that might be taking a look at how you're handling negative reviews.
Yeah, I think it's a chance for you to show up with character to show how the
company responds to these things. So listen, I think everybody knows that nobody's perfect, right?
And so it is an indicator of the kind of service I'm going to get.
(13:46):
Like when I teach, I'm not sure if it's the right way you can evaluate me.
I say, I always say, first of all, thank people that they took the time and
effort to give you this feedback, right? That's something I always say first.
And then tell them that, hey, we definitely are, we're disappointed that we fell short.
If it's a legitimate review, right?
Right. Those are the ones that I think, those are the ones that I think.
(14:08):
Most of the forward-thinking contractors appreciate, truthfully,
somebody who is giving you negative feedback because it kind of is a wake-up call.
The bell's ringing to get your team back on track if it's legitimate.
You know, the ones that get in people's crowd, though, is the ex-employee or
something like that where it's not even a legitimate customer.
(14:30):
It's just somebody who says something like that.
I'm not sure if you want to talk more about it, if you could help us talk more about that.
That that's gotta be like because i don't hear well you'll go
email google or whatever and tell them this stuff i
mean it's such a it's i don't
want to say the word but it's the b word uh yes yeah and that's what i get nicely
saying it's like the b word to go back and i'm going to talk to google about
(14:54):
this they're not going to respond to anything and it's so frustrating because
i mean i can't hear the pain that you probably see with contractors like almost
like tears in their eyes that.
I can't believe we worked so hard
and we get some dude who's probably a competitor or something like that.
Tell us a little bit more about that part of it. I think legitimate ones,
you thank people, you tell them we're going to call you, we're going to make
(15:19):
sure we're disappointed as well and we fell short in value or your schedule
or whatever it is that we did wrong.
We're going to get back on track. I'm going to call you right away and I'll
return my call and And I'll definitely get back on track with this right away.
I think the consumers all say, now that's somebody I can trust that I can do.
When something goes wrong, I know in a way it's demonstrating what do we do.
(15:42):
It's probably more of a real marketing thing than anything. I've had people
tell other contractors that I've trained that I'm going to hire you because
I saw the way you responded to a bad review.
I've actually heard that before. And you probably have too, right? Oh, yes. I have too.
And me, even as a consumer, if I look at the negative reviews,
most consumers, they look at the negative. reviews first.
If I see a business owner that is not very nice or they're accusatory or they're
(16:07):
very highly defensive, for me as a potential customer, I look at that response
and think, oof, that business owner sounds like a jerk.
So I'm going to go on to the next one. Just based off of that.
I get you. I get you. I get you.
Let's talk about those unnerving reviews, though. The ones that are like, who the heck is this guy?
(16:27):
There's no way he's a customer. or he, it looks like a competitor.
It looks like an ex-employee. It looks like somebody who's trying to intentionally bring ill will.
I think we all feel a sense of violation and that does get emotional.
I think that does get our, you know, I think it's like for a normal person,
it doesn't, just like the life goes on.
(16:47):
But when you're a business owner and you put everything into this,
your life stops on the day you get one of those.
Does it make sense there? and it's oh yeah this is your baby that you have worked
on and you know worked tirelessly on so when you get a review where it's a situation
like that where it's not legitimate,
it boils your blood because you're like, what in the F is going on?
They weren't even a customer.
(17:09):
So let's talk about that because legitimate reviews are one thing,
but when it's an illegitimate review, that's potentially turning away potential
customers when that's the sort of trash that shouldn't even be up there in the first place.
And a lot of consumers, when they're signing up for a Google or a Yelp or a
Facebook, they don't realize there's a set of terms and conditions that they're
(17:29):
signing off on. It's kind of like you have the app on, right?
It's like those those iOS updates. I don't know about you. I have never read
them once. I just agree, agree, agree.
Most consumers are like that. But the thing is, when it comes to reviews,
if they're leaving a review that's in violation of the terms and conditions
of review site, that review is grounds for it, first of all,
(17:50):
to be reported, and then potentially to be removed.
But let's talk about what it means to be an illegitimate review. So a couple of examples.
One I see a lot in home services is somebody that
didn't have a direct experience with you so the way that might
look is oh my mom used to service mvp and
it was a terrible experience or uh i was
(18:11):
out of town while my wife had service mvp come and she was not happy with the
treatment see that all the time right situations like that that reviewer did
not have the direct experience with you so therefore it's in violation of the
term get it i get it yeah that's that is one that is like the daughter daughter of the senior citizen.
Like they came to my mom's house and took advantage of my mom or something like that. Right.
(18:36):
Yeah. We see it all the time. Or you would have been mentioned one extra current
employees trying to slander the business name. Uh, that's a no,
no violates the terms and conditions.
Also another one that I see a lot in home services too, is a picture of the
truck and somebody saying like, Oh, this truck cut me off on the freeway or
they were parked in front of my mailbox for half the day, which those ones I'm like,
(18:58):
If that really happened, wouldn't you have picked up the phone and called instead
of taking a picture while you're driving?
But things like that we see very often, also using derogatory language,
using any sort of personal information.
There's all these instances that are in violation of the terms and conditions.
And it's something that as a business owner, they can go in and flag that review
(19:21):
and attempt to go through the review site to get it removed themselves.
Else, or they can partner with a company like Consumer Fusion,
that's what we're experts in.
We are experts in going in, removing illegitimate negative reviews.
And it's not something we're new at. We've been doing it for over 10 years now.
Yeah, I think it's something that is so important. I think it needs to be done
(19:43):
by a professional, truthfully.
Because I would say our instinct, even when it comes to things like HR or things
like this, this is sort of in that that category of the contractor or the service professional,
you know, the impulse is,
you know, to say something that seems legitimate with a normal conversation,
(20:06):
but it's not something that you should, in a professional environment like this,
you're probably going to say something the wrong way, right?
Or you might over threaten, you come off like, yeah, you know,
this person, the way they're talking, I could see why they get bad reviews or whatever type of thing.
So you You might even offend, even the request to get it down is so emotional or negative.
(20:28):
It could create a negative possibility. So, I mean, Cassandra, that's really great.
And so, is that process, is that like, how lengthy is that process?
Could you explain like how long does it take?
How much effort goes in on your end to help a contractor get that done?
(20:49):
Like, I know it's not easy to do this business you're doing.
Tell us a little bit about how much time and effort goes in on your team's part on that.
Yeah, I mean, it definitely takes a lot of time. I mean, thankfully,
at Consumer Fusion, we have an incredible team here. Our average tenure is,
I think, like eight years.
So we got a backend team that has been doing this for a long time.
And it is a process. I mean, depending on the review site, typically the terms
(21:13):
and conditions for a lot of these review sites is pretty similar,
but the process can be dramatically different. So take Google, for instance.
With Google, it's more than just flagging the dispute.
That's kind of just the first step. What we actually go and do is we create
a dispute case on the business owner's behalf.
And then our team is working with Google moderators, which a lot of times they have them in India. yet.
(21:35):
So we're dealing with the moderators, whether it be on the phone,
chat, email to go through that dispute process.
Google doesn't give us any sort of follow up. So we're having to check in.
And then ultimately, it's up to Google to determine whether or not they're going
to approve that request. And usually takes multiple attempts.
So Google gives you an unlimited number of attempts. On average,
(21:57):
for us to get an illegitimate negative review taken down, it takes three to
five attempts. attempts but we're relentless.
I think our record here has been 28 attempts over a nine-month period and we got it taken down.
It doesn't usually take that long but it really is case by case and up to the
review site whether or not they're going to take it on that first go-around
(22:17):
or do we got to keep hammering them until we get it.
Well two things I'm hearing here are every website like Yelp,
Google, Facebook, whatever it is, they all have terms and conditions that are
unique And I think, and remember, you're just an HVAC guy or a plumber or electrician.
For you to remember, okay, let me go into my catalog of terms and conditions
(22:39):
and make sure I respond to this the right way, it's just not going to happen,
right? So that's just one thing right there.
So having a professional to understand what the unique terms and conditions are.
And number two, as you mentioned, the moderators of Google or Yelp or whatever.
You know, they most likely can see the difference between an amateur asking
me to do this or a professional who's doing it.
(23:01):
And they probably see a certain rhythm of the way the professional would respond
to this and say, hey, I'm up against,
I'm hearing from a professional service on this that is, I better make sure
I act on this one first because this is, these people are going to be more legitimately
going down a road that's going to follow those terms and conditions.
(23:22):
I better make sure that to keep my job as the moderator that I'm adhering to
those terms and conditions, right? Right.
And so, uh, and so that is, uh, to me, that's, that's the difference, right?
Between an amateur and a professional, I'm not saying you couldn't go through
it and dig in, but Hey, let me put it this way while you're trying to figure
out the terms and conditions and then writing that response,
(23:43):
what are you going to use chat TPT or something or the watered down response
you're going to get from there.
And then what you're going to fire it off to the thing and then schedule an
appointment to keep following up for over and over again. Meanwhile.
What's your current business? Is it review management or is it HVAC or plumbing?
How much money do you think is being lost on owners digging into this as opposed
(24:03):
to working in a normal business?
Time is money. Time is money. Like you said, having to go through and figure
out, hey, what category should I choose?
How should I write this? Oops, I chose the wrong category. It got rejected.
Let me go in and do it again. Again, who has time for that?
And even if you do have time for that, isn't it better spent doing something
else that's going to help grow the business or other priorities that you want
(24:24):
to focus on versus having to follow up with the review site?
One thing I can tell you is every minute I spend with Cassandra Webster has
always been a moment of joy.
And I've always had nothing, but I always learn something every time I spend
even a few minutes with you.
I learn something new. You know, Cassandra, I just want to say thank you for
(24:45):
this podcast and this great information.
And I really think, you know, I definitely would recommend everybody use this
service if you're trying to keep your because you just never know when it comes
up. And when it does come up, it can be awful.
And I want to make sure that you are supported.
Hey, my advice would be don't wait for a bad review to get a service like this
that can help you with it because you don't just help with bad reviews.
(25:08):
Reputation management. It's the whole thing, right? And you help with every
part of it. Is that correct?
Yeah, we also help with review generation. So keeping on building that solid,
positive foundation, review responses, because we really believe that you can't
just focus on one aspect of online reputation management.
You've got to make a focus on all areas because if you're not putting focus
(25:29):
and your competitor down the road is putting in more effort and focus,
they're going to be taking away customers and market share from you.
So we want to help businesses just go from good to great.
And to me, if you're a company that is trying to grow and try to be a quality
company, this part of it is the number one piece of market.
I think branding is a big part of it. Number one, but I'd say number two,
(25:50):
let's make sure this is a kind of, I wasn't sure if you call this grassroots
or not, but I would say it's not really a, it's not a paid thing you're doing.
It's, it's a, you know, a, what do you call it?
It's something that's generated from the ground up from, that's why I call it the grassroots.
I think it's, you got clients giving giving you great reviews and there's no better form.
There's no higher honor than when a client tells the general public that your
(26:12):
company is great and no greater pain than when you get the opposite.
And I'm definitely glad that people like you are out there, Cassandra.
So how can people learn about consumer fusion so they can enroll your services
before they get a bad review?
That's what I'd like to see is people get this done before they get a bad review.
How do we engage in your services?
Thank you so much, Joe. And again, thank you so much for the opportunity for
(26:33):
having me on here. if you want to get a hold of me and I'd love to learn,
I just want to educate and learn about business owners.
Even if there's no next steps for us, I'm more than happy to do an audit and
see where are those areas of opportunity for the business.
So you can reach me via email. I'm at Cassandra at consumerfusion.com or I'm
really active on LinkedIn and Facebook.
So you can just look me up Cassandra Webster and shoot me a message that way.
(26:57):
Good, good. So one more time on that? How do we get ahold of you?
So email is Cassandra at consumerfusion.com, or you can just look up Cassandra
Webster on Facebook or LinkedIn, and you can shoot me a message that way too.
Great. If you need help, you can also come to me and I'll make sure I pass her
name along. I've got her personal contact. I can just forward that to anybody who needs that.
(27:18):
Highly recommend the service. And definitely, I think we've all learned something today.
Cassandra, thanks for being here. I really appreciate you. Thanks so much,
Joe. I appreciate Appreciate you too. You have a good rest of your day.
Thank you. All right. Take care.
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