January 17, 2023 • 11 mins
After a “career mid-life crisis,” Cindy Tam found her true purpose: supporting organizations on their ESG (environmental, social, and governance) journeys. Tune in for an informal chat between Cindy and Slalom’s head of R&D, Dave Uhler. They share their personal connections to sustainability, discuss the thorny question of measurement, and reflect on how simple, small changes can lead to bigger impacts.
Featured guest: Cindy Tam, Director, Global ESG
Host: Dave Uhler, Head of Research and Development
Episode Highlights:
- Globally, organizations are ramping up their ESG efforts to grow new capabilities and responsibly manage resources to foster their triple top and bottom lines: people, planet, and profit. In this episode of Slalom On Air, we hear directly from the Slalom team members supporting them.
- What happens when our head of research and development gets together with a global ESG director to look at this topic? Real talk! Two Slalom leaders share what sparked their interest in sustainability. They’re also candid about the small changes they’re making in their personal lives: Cindy is exploring more plant-based eating, Dave is looking to curtailing business travel.
- Cindy and Dave unpack what sustainability and the bigger ESG equation can mean for business leaders. Get Cindy’s perspective on why ESG is a tool, not an outcome, and learn why Dave is a big fan of starting with ‘I don’t know.’
Related LINKS:
Curious to find out more about Slalom’s ESG work? Go to: https://www.slalom.com/index.php/esg-acceleration
Tags:
Sustainability, ESG, career change, environment, governance, data, measurement, management consulting, technology consulting, ESG consulting, climate change, net zero, zero waste, carbon offsetting, carbon neutral, energy efficiency, green business, sustainable business, sustainable company, ESG acceleration, fiercely human consulting, better tomorrows, innovation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to Slalom,
this is Slalom on Air.
A podcast series sharing how our core values inspire our work,
real voices,
real stories,
real impacts our goals are to dream bigger,
move faster and build better tomorrows Hello, hello,
(00:23):
Hello and welcome to another episode of on the Edge.
I am Dave Uhler,
I manage research and development here at slalom consulting.
I get to talk to some amazing random and weird and fantastic people in the world. E. S. G.
Is a really difficult topic.
It is a whole bunch of stuff to unpack.
I am really lucky to be joined by someone that knows a whole heck of a lot more about this than me.
(00:48):
Cindy Tam.
Cindy Tam is our director of slaloms globally S.
G team.
She's focused on directing,
helping and building our clients momentum in terms of their journey for sustainability,
for their business,
for the future for the Earth Cindy Welcome to on the edge,
thank you so much for having me.
Dave,
I can't wait to talk to you more about sustainability,
(01:10):
dig it.
Alright well E.
S.
G Cindy help me unpack even that term.
We have seen it a lot,
we've heard a lot,
what's it mean and then what's behind it.
So yes,
she stands for environmental,
social and governance and at its core,
it is a set of principles and metrics are used to guide and evaluate the practices of the business and the impact they have on society.
(01:33):
So under environment you're maybe looking at things like energy and emissions and toxic chemicals for social it could be employee engagement,
learning and development and governance,
maybe risking accountabilities and privacy.
So it's really things that we are familiar with but grouped under an umbrella that is sort of new.
But it's a new way of thinking about how do we measure the risk and opportunities for business?
(01:56):
Oh,
I love it.
Cindy.
I'm a huge fan of,
I don't know and I bet we've got a whole bunch of people that I don't know about how climate impacts,
how social justice impacts.
There's a lot of things to unpack in this conversation.
But even before we get into that,
I would love to do a little bit about you.
Why is this passionate for you?
Yeah,
(02:16):
I have been a slalom for seven years and for a good chunk of the time I was working in the social sector with philanthropy nonprofits.
And a few years ago I had a little bit of a career midlife crisis where I decided to take a six month sabbatical and traveled around the world across um,
RV trip really across the United States,
um,
spent a few months in East Asia,
(02:38):
spent a few months in East Africa and I had this grand vision that I would be hiking up the mountain and I would stand at the peak and I realized that,
you know,
I was born to write that didn't happen.
I kept standing on mountaintops and nothing came but at the end of that six months,
the one thing that kept coming back to me was everything that I'm witnessing around the world in every corner of the world,
(03:00):
the devastation of climate crisis and the deterioration of our beautiful environment,
the impact it has on local communities,
the flora and fauna.
It really hit home that there wasn't anything that meant more to me that was more important for me to do personally than dedicate my time to this cause.
(03:20):
And so when I came back from this trip I went to my manager at the time and I just said this is what I want to do.
I found my calling and I received nothing but support across my entire psalm ecosystem and support network to just help me figure out how to do that as solemn.
Um so when our team was formalized I was one of the first people that raised our hand and said I want to do this and that's the team where I said today,
(03:43):
that is awesome.
Well Cindy,
I am super happy that I have a guardian of the planet among me.
You know it's hard to unpack the whole E.
S.
G.
Equation and there's no easy one and I think for a lot of folks we want to ask these questions like what can I do and we're going back to you know some of the consummation pieces of like you know what about recycling?
(04:03):
Well I recycle?
Do you write,
does your town recycle?
Do you really do it in a meaningful way?
Does it actually like show up that way,
does it does the thing that you put in the garbage,
this thing you put in the recycle actually end up in a positive impact for what you're trying to do,
right?
And the reality is you really need to think about your own footprint and what's meaningful to you and why are you doing it more than anything else?
(04:27):
The rub is I would love people to start unpacking a little bit at a time if we don't do that,
we're probably not gonna make any change.
Yeah,
I I couldn't agree more.
Um and so.
Dave,
what is your personal connection V.
S.
G.
As we talk about exploring this in our personal life,
what is it about E.
S.
G.
And sustainability and this movement that speaks to you and what's your perspective on it?
(04:49):
If there's one thing that may be the most first and foremost that I've got in my head is our our dependence on each other,
right?
In my non slalom life,
I am a firefighter.
I spent a little bit of time this summer um out in east from Washington.
Uh and some of the fires we had in Cheney,
it's rough,
right?
Some of these are man made,
(05:10):
some of these are just naturally occurring.
There's a whole bunch of reasons why fire happens,
but ultimately we've got a lot of people that are way more dependent on them being able to have sustained and capable services right rendered to them.
And some of this stuff is getting further and further away,
right?
Can we save these towns?
Can we save these areas if it's happening more often?
(05:30):
Right?
If we see,
um,
you know,
fundamental shifts in weather,
right?
Are we seeing hotter,
drier climates?
Are we seeing,
uh,
you know,
flash your fuels that are actually out and about and those flashy fuels catch fire,
We're all vulnerable to this.
And we've got to think about this in terms of if my house catches fire,
it's your house catching fire next.
(05:51):
And,
you know,
it could be 1000 miles away,
it could be 10 ft away,
but that's maybe what makes the most personal to me.
Well,
first of all,
Dave,
thank you.
Um,
I did not know that.
I did not know that you fight fires on weekends and evenings.
Um,
so thank you for doing that,
but I would also like to echo something that you said,
which is the fact that this is a problem that we all have to come together just to solve.
(06:12):
This is not something that one person or one company faces or has to find a resolution for.
And I think that's what we're seeing as a an opportunity and a challenge for all the businesses,
right,
because a lot of our clients are not used to having to partner with their peers,
but to make a difference to move the needle on climate change and climate crisis,
(06:33):
we need that we need everybody from different parts of the ecosystem coming together to drive systemic change to move the needle.
You really do need to figure out with your suppliers,
with your competitors,
with your consumers,
what is the role that everybody has to play in order to adopt a different way of operating and start to think about the people and the environment,
(06:56):
everything that's impacted as part of what we just take for granted.
So when you think about the clients that are doing right,
when you think about the folks that are getting it maybe directionally correct what's top of mind for the clients right now that are on their journey?
Um data and measurement,
a lot of it has to do with the what you're not just talking about right.
If you decide what topics,
(07:17):
what areas are most important for your business and you're trying to improve that,
what does that mean when you say improve upon something,
you first have to figure out where you are today,
what's your baseline?
How much water are you consuming today?
And what types of improvement initiatives can help you reduce that?
Um one of the recent project that we completed for a Global high end fashion retailer was to help quantify dozens and dozens of improvement initiatives across emissions and waste that their company is undertaking and try to trans translate all that into pounds of waste diverted from landfill and tons of emissions abated and reduced.
(07:55):
So the concepts of £200 of plastic that used to go to landfill and now I'm using it for something else.
What is that?
In terms of carbon emissions,
it gets technical really quickly,
but having a consistent methodology and calculation to really figure out where you are and be able to track how much you've improved and how much you have saved,
(08:15):
debated as part of a single initiative and be able to aggregate all of that and tell a story to yourself and to your external stakeholders.
That's part of the challenge.
Alright,
well,
city,
I got to put you on the spot.
What is one guilty pleasure that you used to partake in that you now either feel really bad about or you just decided not to do it all because you're like,
(08:36):
you know what,
that's just,
that's just way too much impact.
I don't need that much footprint.
Oh man,
so many to choose from.
Where do I start?
Um I'll probably pick diet,
I am on essentially what I consider to be maybe a 10 year journey from where I am now to vegetarianism.
I am perhaps three years into that journey.
So it's a very gray,
(08:57):
gradual lifestyle change to adopt a more plant based diet and start to find alternatives to what I used to enjoy and discovering new dishes,
new recipes and new ingredients I've never paid attention to and finding joy and excitement in that overall that is the hardest habit I had to give up?
Wow,
(09:17):
Sandy,
I am beyond impressed dietary changes.
That is about as hard as it gets so well done.
Let's anything in your in your world that you're giving up,
I travel a ton less than I did.
Are there times when it's called for,
Are there times when you know what,
we've got this many folks and we've got this topic and we believe that it's actually important enough that we should do that.
(09:41):
Making a really conscious decision about that.
It was fun.
And at the same time I look at that now and I'm like wow,
Did we really need to travel 3000 miles?
Do we need seven people to actually make that trip?
So I think about that a lot now when you think about the people like individual human beings,
right?
Not part of an organization,
right,
what can you do?
And what advice would you have to those people,
(10:01):
whether they're going to work tomorrow when they happen to work at a big company or they're going to work tomorrow when they're gonna drive a single person in their uber.
Yeah,
I think for folks who are part of a company,
the first thing I would encourage if they don't already know is where their their own company is on their journey in sustainability in E.
(10:23):
S.
G.
And that could mean taking a look at your goals and targets.
Has the company made any commitments?
If they have made commitments,
what are they doing and how can you be a part of that?
Help your company start that dialogue as for accountability,
as for progress and be a part of that change if you're not seeing it.
Love it,
(10:43):
Cindy,
I appreciate the time,
I appreciate the direction,
I appreciate the insights.
So I am excited to see what we can do.
I'm excited to see what we can do better.
I'm excited to see what we can learn and I'm certainly excited to see what you do next.
Thank you.
Dave.
I it's been an honor and a pleasure and I still appreciate your thoughtful questions.
It's definitely gotten me thinking about certain things that I have not thought about in a really long time.
(11:07):
So thank you Cindy,
I love that.
Thanks for listening to slalom on air tune in to hear more By following us on your preferred podcast listening app.
New stories will be coming regularly and if you're interested in joining slalom,
check us out at slalom.com slash careers
Welcome to Slalom,
this is Slalom on Air.
A podcast series sharing how our core values inspire our work,
real voices,
real stories,
real impacts our goals are to dream bigger,
move faster and build better tomorrows Hello, hello,
(00:23):
Hello and welcome to another episode of on the Edge.
I am Dave Uhler,
I manage research and development here at slalom consulting.
I get to talk to some amazing random and weird and fantastic people in the world. E. S. G.
Is a really difficult topic.
It is a whole bunch of stuff to unpack.
I am really lucky to be joined by someone that knows a whole heck of a lot more about this than me.
(00:48):
Cindy Tam.
Cindy Tam is our director of slaloms globally S.
G team.
She's focused on directing,
helping and building our clients momentum in terms of their journey for sustainability,
for their business,
for the future for the Earth Cindy Welcome to on the edge,
thank you so much for having me.
Dave,
I can't wait to talk to you more about sustainability,
(01:10):
dig it.
Alright well E.
S.
G Cindy help me unpack even that term.
We have seen it a lot,
we've heard a lot,
what's it mean and then what's behind it.
So yes,
she stands for environmental,
social and governance and at its core,
it is a set of principles and metrics are used to guide and evaluate the practices of the business and the impact they have on society.
(01:33):
So under environment you're maybe looking at things like energy and emissions and toxic chemicals for social it could be employee engagement,
learning and development and governance,
maybe risking accountabilities and privacy.
So it's really things that we are familiar with but grouped under an umbrella that is sort of new.
But it's a new way of thinking about how do we measure the risk and opportunities for business?
(01:56):
Oh,
I love it.
Cindy.
I'm a huge fan of,
I don't know and I bet we've got a whole bunch of people that I don't know about how climate impacts,
how social justice impacts.
There's a lot of things to unpack in this conversation.
But even before we get into that,
I would love to do a little bit about you.
Why is this passionate for you?
Yeah,
(02:16):
I have been a slalom for seven years and for a good chunk of the time I was working in the social sector with philanthropy nonprofits.
And a few years ago I had a little bit of a career midlife crisis where I decided to take a six month sabbatical and traveled around the world across um,
RV trip really across the United States,
um,
spent a few months in East Asia,
(02:38):
spent a few months in East Africa and I had this grand vision that I would be hiking up the mountain and I would stand at the peak and I realized that,
you know,
I was born to write that didn't happen.
I kept standing on mountaintops and nothing came but at the end of that six months,
the one thing that kept coming back to me was everything that I'm witnessing around the world in every corner of the world,
(03:00):
the devastation of climate crisis and the deterioration of our beautiful environment,
the impact it has on local communities,
the flora and fauna.
It really hit home that there wasn't anything that meant more to me that was more important for me to do personally than dedicate my time to this cause.
(03:20):
And so when I came back from this trip I went to my manager at the time and I just said this is what I want to do.
I found my calling and I received nothing but support across my entire psalm ecosystem and support network to just help me figure out how to do that as solemn.
Um so when our team was formalized I was one of the first people that raised our hand and said I want to do this and that's the team where I said today,
(03:43):
that is awesome.
Well Cindy,
I am super happy that I have a guardian of the planet among me.
You know it's hard to unpack the whole E.
S.
G.
Equation and there's no easy one and I think for a lot of folks we want to ask these questions like what can I do and we're going back to you know some of the consummation pieces of like you know what about recycling?
(04:03):
Well I recycle?
Do you write,
does your town recycle?
Do you really do it in a meaningful way?
Does it actually like show up that way,
does it does the thing that you put in the garbage,
this thing you put in the recycle actually end up in a positive impact for what you're trying to do,
right?
And the reality is you really need to think about your own footprint and what's meaningful to you and why are you doing it more than anything else?
(04:27):
The rub is I would love people to start unpacking a little bit at a time if we don't do that,
we're probably not gonna make any change.
Yeah,
I I couldn't agree more.
Um and so.
Dave,
what is your personal connection V.
S.
G.
As we talk about exploring this in our personal life,
what is it about E.
S.
G.
And sustainability and this movement that speaks to you and what's your perspective on it?
(04:49):
If there's one thing that may be the most first and foremost that I've got in my head is our our dependence on each other,
right?
In my non slalom life,
I am a firefighter.
I spent a little bit of time this summer um out in east from Washington.
Uh and some of the fires we had in Cheney,
it's rough,
right?
Some of these are man made,
(05:10):
some of these are just naturally occurring.
There's a whole bunch of reasons why fire happens,
but ultimately we've got a lot of people that are way more dependent on them being able to have sustained and capable services right rendered to them.
And some of this stuff is getting further and further away,
right?
Can we save these towns?
Can we save these areas if it's happening more often?
(05:30):
Right?
If we see,
um,
you know,
fundamental shifts in weather,
right?
Are we seeing hotter,
drier climates?
Are we seeing,
uh,
you know,
flash your fuels that are actually out and about and those flashy fuels catch fire,
We're all vulnerable to this.
And we've got to think about this in terms of if my house catches fire,
it's your house catching fire next.
(05:51):
And,
you know,
it could be 1000 miles away,
it could be 10 ft away,
but that's maybe what makes the most personal to me.
Well,
first of all,
Dave,
thank you.
Um,
I did not know that.
I did not know that you fight fires on weekends and evenings.
Um,
so thank you for doing that,
but I would also like to echo something that you said,
which is the fact that this is a problem that we all have to come together just to solve.
(06:12):
This is not something that one person or one company faces or has to find a resolution for.
And I think that's what we're seeing as a an opportunity and a challenge for all the businesses,
right,
because a lot of our clients are not used to having to partner with their peers,
but to make a difference to move the needle on climate change and climate crisis,
(06:33):
we need that we need everybody from different parts of the ecosystem coming together to drive systemic change to move the needle.
You really do need to figure out with your suppliers,
with your competitors,
with your consumers,
what is the role that everybody has to play in order to adopt a different way of operating and start to think about the people and the environment,
(06:56):
everything that's impacted as part of what we just take for granted.
So when you think about the clients that are doing right,
when you think about the folks that are getting it maybe directionally correct what's top of mind for the clients right now that are on their journey?
Um data and measurement,
a lot of it has to do with the what you're not just talking about right.
If you decide what topics,
(07:17):
what areas are most important for your business and you're trying to improve that,
what does that mean when you say improve upon something,
you first have to figure out where you are today,
what's your baseline?
How much water are you consuming today?
And what types of improvement initiatives can help you reduce that?
Um one of the recent project that we completed for a Global high end fashion retailer was to help quantify dozens and dozens of improvement initiatives across emissions and waste that their company is undertaking and try to trans translate all that into pounds of waste diverted from landfill and tons of emissions abated and reduced.
(07:55):
So the concepts of £200 of plastic that used to go to landfill and now I'm using it for something else.
What is that?
In terms of carbon emissions,
it gets technical really quickly,
but having a consistent methodology and calculation to really figure out where you are and be able to track how much you've improved and how much you have saved,
(08:15):
debated as part of a single initiative and be able to aggregate all of that and tell a story to yourself and to your external stakeholders.
That's part of the challenge.
Alright,
well,
city,
I got to put you on the spot.
What is one guilty pleasure that you used to partake in that you now either feel really bad about or you just decided not to do it all because you're like,
(08:36):
you know what,
that's just,
that's just way too much impact.
I don't need that much footprint.
Oh man,
so many to choose from.
Where do I start?
Um I'll probably pick diet,
I am on essentially what I consider to be maybe a 10 year journey from where I am now to vegetarianism.
I am perhaps three years into that journey.
So it's a very gray,
(08:57):
gradual lifestyle change to adopt a more plant based diet and start to find alternatives to what I used to enjoy and discovering new dishes,
new recipes and new ingredients I've never paid attention to and finding joy and excitement in that overall that is the hardest habit I had to give up?
Wow,
(09:17):
Sandy,
I am beyond impressed dietary changes.
That is about as hard as it gets so well done.
Let's anything in your in your world that you're giving up,
I travel a ton less than I did.
Are there times when it's called for,
Are there times when you know what,
we've got this many folks and we've got this topic and we believe that it's actually important enough that we should do that.
(09:41):
Making a really conscious decision about that.
It was fun.
And at the same time I look at that now and I'm like wow,
Did we really need to travel 3000 miles?
Do we need seven people to actually make that trip?
So I think about that a lot now when you think about the people like individual human beings,
right?
Not part of an organization,
right,
what can you do?
And what advice would you have to those people,
(10:01):
whether they're going to work tomorrow when they happen to work at a big company or they're going to work tomorrow when they're gonna drive a single person in their uber.
Yeah,
I think for folks who are part of a company,
the first thing I would encourage if they don't already know is where their their own company is on their journey in sustainability in E.
(10:23):
S.
G.
And that could mean taking a look at your goals and targets.
Has the company made any commitments?
If they have made commitments,
what are they doing and how can you be a part of that?
Help your company start that dialogue as for accountability,
as for progress and be a part of that change if you're not seeing it.
Love it,
(10:43):
Cindy,
I appreciate the time,
I appreciate the direction,
I appreciate the insights.
So I am excited to see what we can do.
I'm excited to see what we can do better.
I'm excited to see what we can learn and I'm certainly excited to see what you do next.
Thank you.
Dave.
I it's been an honor and a pleasure and I still appreciate your thoughtful questions.
It's definitely gotten me thinking about certain things that I have not thought about in a really long time.
(11:07):
So thank you Cindy,
I love that.
Thanks for listening to slalom on air tune in to hear more By following us on your preferred podcast listening app.
New stories will be coming regularly and if you're interested in joining slalom,
check us out at slalom.com slash careers
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