Episode 84 - Taggart - Nest of Vipers (1992) - The Culture Swally

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:32):
Getting on? Yeah, all good. Thank you all. Good. Ready to discuss something very exciting today.
Yeah. We can forward to that later on in the episode. But yeah, everything else is all good.
Can't complain. I saw something quite, well, not exciting, it's quite old, but something
very, maybe laugh yesterday morning. So I was doing some research for today's subject.

(00:53):
Just looking on YouTube to see if I could find, you know, that will maybe documentaries about
some of the actors, about the TV show we're talking about and stuff. And I came across the one
and only time that Sean Connery, like Tam, ever appeared on the late Michael Parkinson's
chat show. Have you seen it? You know something? I don't know if I have. You can, it's on YouTube,

(01:13):
obviously. So he's on there with quite a young Boris Johnson who when he was the editor of whatever
fucking Tory Shite Rag, he was editor of before he became a Tory party leader and some other politician
guy that I didn't recognise. So the party's making a big thing about how him and big time have known
each other for a very long time. They've actually friends, they golfed together and stuff, but this was

(01:37):
the first time that he'd ever had Connery on the chat show. And he was on to promote, which I think
turned out to be his last movie because apparently he has such a dreadful time filming it, the League of
Extraordinary Gentleman. Yeah. And Parkie was asked them about acting. I mean he asked them if he
enjoyed making action films. And Tom's like, well, yeah, I do. But I've always enjoyed making them

(02:03):
and he said, so it says the thing is when you're when you're going to be an actor, you have to be prepared
to just make a, and then he sort of writes a word with his finger, like in the air. And then Parkie's
like, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to use bad
language on your show, but I was, you know, they said this is, it's okay. You know, you can say whatever

(02:25):
you like. And Tom says, well, you got to be prepared to pick a Connery yourself.
And I just thought, I just thought to myself, yes, the boy from Fountain Bridge, who's not
lived in Fountain Bridge for at that stage for well and excess of 50, maybe even 60 years. And he's still

(02:47):
got to make a connery yourself. But then it sort of tons and looks because all the way through,
all the way through these interviews, Roaston, Boris for being like an eaten schoolboy,
you know, it'll be completely eaten. So every now and again, he just, he just gives Boris a bit of
a Roaston. But yeah, you have to be ready to be, to make a connery yourself. It's fucking brilliant.

(03:11):
I'll send you it. I'll, I'll think out my YouTube history and I'll send you it over. So yeah,
brilliant. Yeah. I'll look forward to seeing that. That's fantastic. Yeah. Love a bit of big time.
He was wearing his trousers, though. Was he? He was wearing his shirt, well, yeah, because it was,
it was being, there was a few, there was a few sort of long shots over, obviously, in the,
the sort of tried and tested chat show format, the guest famously walks on and joins, joins the

(03:36):
interviewer and the his fellow guests. So yeah, he had his trousers on. I mean, he didn't look too
happy to be on these trousers. I think he'd been quite comfortable, he just sort of slipped him off
and stuck his baffes on, you know. He said, tart and box are shorts. Yeah, so that was big time. Well,
and that's our big time story of the week. Come up with a regular feature. Yeah.

(04:02):
Yeah. I have to try and avoid the stories about them when they say it, the more the big wires. I
don't think that's going to win big time any new fans. But yeah, right. Okay. Shall we have a look at
what's been happening in Scotland over the last couple of weeks then? Cue the jingle.

(04:24):
Hello. This is the out there, heaven-reason broadcasting, Godmarration. And here is what's been going on
in the new. Okay, Greg, what have you seen in Scotland that you'd like to share with me and our
lovely listeners? Well, I thought it was a sort of refreshing change of pace I would start with
some good news. And I'm sure all of us in our quiet moments have aspired to be someone like this.

(04:48):
But this comes from the Scottish sun on the 21st of September. The headline is, the headline,
rather, is heroic rescue. Hero Scots, Grandad, Dive, Dint, a canal to save a woman before going back
to the pub to finish his drink. This is, this is Brave, Davey Buchanan 62. It was in the canal in
in Camelon, which is near Falkirk, a couple of weeks ago, having a couple of pints when the alarm

(05:12):
was raised. Two women had slipped and fallen into the fourth incline canal, but one managed to get
a cell phone call for help. Punters raced along the canal site to find their pal, and quick thinking
Davey dived in without even taking his jake it off. The heroic pensioner managed to get the woman
to get to the woman and help her to safety. And as if nothing had happened, the valiant punter

(05:34):
returned to the pub and finished his drink, still wearing his soaking wet clothes. The courageous
Grandad told the Falkirk herald. You don't think twice in situations like that, you just do it
you can, I never even thought to take my jake it off. Just ended up my pockets and jumped in.
You can see she was in trouble and drifting in and out of consciousness, so something had to be done.

(05:57):
Davey's heroic act has gained him a very special nickname, and his fellow rep, his fellow public
regulars got on my special gift. He's very own Baywatch lifeguard shorts. Pubblan Lourdes
Fraser Kroemer said, Davey jumped in without a second thought. Well, actually his first thought was

(06:17):
empty in his pockets. Sure, wait a second thought, let's keep my jake up on. Davey jumped in without
a second thought and between them, the lifted around got her into the recovery position,
and so the emergency services arrived. And then soggy Davey came back into the pub to drive it off
and finished his pint. We now call them the camellan Davey Hasselhoff, and we presented them with a

(06:39):
pair of red Baywatch shorts. But both Davey and Fraser equed fears about a lack of safety features
around the canal. The pub owner also said he flagged issues with white, with lighting and a lack of
flotation devices in that particular area, with the council and with Scottish canals. Hero Davey

(07:00):
said, "I'm just glad she's okay. Over the years, there have been too many people who have
drowned in that stretch of the canal. Thankfully, this wasn't another one." So, that's Davey
Buchanan. I'm sure we've all thought to ourselves how fucking cool would it be to be in the right
place at the right time and pull off a heroic rescue and then do something cool afterwards.
Like, go back and finish your pint. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what you want to be to be doing,

(07:24):
because it can make you just look super cool. But you're just like, "Ah, it's no bother. I do this
type of thing every day." Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's nice to be heroic. Yeah, I've never done anything like that.
I have fallen in that same canal. I'm sure I've told the story before when my father, my late father

(07:44):
was trying to demonstrate the dangers of walking on a frozen canal by ramming a stick through the
fucking eggs and plunging is both into the icy waters, but we were right next to the banks,
so we were able to scramble out. You must see a few people take a dive in the canal, they've
been in Amsterdam, nothing but... Yeah, I have done, because I live right on a river effectively,

(08:06):
and yeah, there has been... I mean, you see people jumping in and going swimming all the time,
which is just crazy. But yeah, there has been a couple of times that I've looked at the window
and there's been loads of police and an ambulance and stuff around and they've been fishing somebody
out, or you'll see the police boats looking for a body. Not nice. I think one of the highest

(08:26):
risks and dangers it's set in one of the news stories was it's actually people in the city centre,
it's tourists, that they're obviously a bit pished or stoned. So then they go on to the side of the
canal to have a pish and maybe their trousers have fallen down and then they fall in and then

(08:46):
obviously they're fucked because they can't buy... They kicked their legs from... Yeah, yeah, so that's
that's quite a high cause of drowning, yeah. Other than the canals here. I remember when I worked at
Frank and Benny's on Paisley Road in Glasgow, that the restaurant sits right on the edge of the river
clite. So you can see the clite out the window in the member one day and on the opposite side there was

(09:08):
a couple of guys who it was really sunny day and they decided so the tide was down, was out, rather,
so the water level was down and there's a couple of sort of wedges about maybe five or six feet down
from the edge of the canal wall and they decided to climb down and fly on them and sunbathe so it taps
off, you know, and one of them rolled, they moved, shifted his weight and fell right in the canal,

(09:33):
we went one end of the river. Fortunately, he was able to climb out because the ledge was next to
like a ladder, you know, they're the sort of rungs that are cutting the wall so he was able to kind of
put himself out and it looked like he was only going to put a trackie bottom so I wasn't, if
everybody went on jeans and made me a different story, you know. But yeah, I mean, first up,
first up are you lately in drowning and not a cool theme, you know, the last three picks you've had

(09:58):
on the slawy of Albin boats or drowning or yeah, something along those lines and now you're giving us
new stories about this, is there something you want to tell us? Is this a new fascination you have?
I don't know, I mean ever since I was in Amsterdam a few weeks ago and I was I was
putting about, I think in a real electric boat around the canals and maybe I've got the

(10:19):
soul of a seaman in my blood. It's not like Mark Arman, he had two pints.
Okay, well yeah, that's a lovely story and good to hear. That's brilliant, they gave him a pair of
red bay watch shorts and I just hope he isn't outmodeling them in the evening looking for someone else

(10:40):
to save Dana David Hasselhoff impression. Well, I was listening to a podcast the other day and one
of the producers of the podcast is also essentially one of the hosts was talking about how much he used to
love bay watch when he, because not for the reasons that we love bay watch, I think he's about
young, I think he was excited about the the the actual rescues and the action, not the sight of

(11:06):
Yasmine Belief and Pamela Anderson running into the motion along the beach. And he was saying that
when the other guys was like you should you should buy like one of the classic flotation devices,
you know, like the sort of flotation thing that used to run down the beach with and he said,
"Oh, but they'll be really, really expensive." So a quick check on eBay, 25 quid each can get one,
they can replicate, obviously not they can actually prop from the show, but no, yeah, 25 quid.

(11:31):
But if it was your favorite show that's a type of thing you would of course you would want
and to have a flotation device. Yeah, nice. Anyway, that's my, that's David the hero you can
in slash Hasselhoff, which for a story of this week, I think we've had maybe a couple of stories
like this on the swallow over the last few years before, but it's always nice when you see a story

(11:51):
like this and always makes me chuckle. So this is from the daily record this week, Greg.
A Scott has been left stunned after finding Lewis Capaldi's face in his bag of chips. Andrew Thompson
34 couldn't believe his eyes when he unwrapped his food to find the someone you loved singer
staring back at him. The estate agent was headed along to the hippie chippy on Brumland Road Street in

(12:15):
Paisley for his lunch on Wednesday afternoon before he made the discovery. After getting back to his
office he opened up his chips and sent a picture of his meal to his partner. It wasn't
until he looked at the picture on his phone that he noticed the patches of grease on his chippy paper
had formed in a way that bears a striking resemblance to the West Lothian star. And I have to agree

(12:35):
actually it does fucking look exactly like Lewis Capaldi in this photo. I'll send it over to you.
Okay. I'm Andrew from Paisley told the record. I got back to the office opened up my steaming chips
and added red sauce. Then I took a photograph of my lunch for my misses and that's when I noticed it.
I couldn't believe it. It was Lewis Capaldi's face. The first thing I did was take a bunch of

(13:00):
photo graphs. Then I showed a few mates round the office and they were when his statics.
Pictures of Andrew's bag of chips show an image in the wrapper which appears to be an uncanny
likeness of Capaldi's face with his eyes, nose and mouth perfectly positioned. Andrew, who is a huge
fan of the singer now hopes to get the wrapper framed and sent to the star. He added, "I just

(13:23):
thought it was great. I'm a huge fan of Capaldi. He's a funny chap and he would love to see this."
I know he's having a bit of a hard time lately and is taking a break but I think if he sees this
it'll cheat him up.
I'm hoping the image stays on the paper so I can frame it and try to send it to him.

(13:44):
If you're reading this Lewis, drop us a message and I'll send you your face on a bag of chips.
I mean it's so... it's a lot of accounts right?
Fair play. You know what this is all about? I mean I think Lewis has been, you know, it's been very
open about struggling with like his Tourettes and stuff and he's having it take a break because

(14:04):
I think he's like ADHD and anxiety and he is suffering but Andrew thinks that just showing him
his face and a bag of chips is just going to queue it all and cheat him up but you know a good owner
like his face is feeling off but who takes a photo of their lunch to send to their misses?
Well that's the first thing that I'd be asking in that and who's going to the hippie chippy for

(14:25):
their lunch?
I mean occasionally if I'm having something for lunch, I think my wife would like, I might send
her a picture of it. Okay, but if I was there enough but you know if I was to like be having like a
I saw a couscous feta in radish salad and it formed like Bob Marley's face or something

(14:48):
at the bottom of the little box. I'm not sure that I would be sending a picture to Paul because
you probably think it brought my fucking marbles. Yeah, because you wouldn't really be able to see it
properly. But yeah interesting I always love it when there's something like that in terms of you
know somebody's face. I mean you haven't seen them online a lot. We had one didn't we? I think it was
early other year or last year with a lady that found, we we felt it looked more like Alvin's

(15:12):
third-est but she claimed it was Elvis in her in her ketchup pot. That's right.
And she was squinting it. That's correct.
Scraping it out and did you know something the other week John Robbins and Ellis James,
they've got an occasional item on their week the video showing by five called like in your region
or something like that and they read that story they read that story out that's very same story.

(15:35):
What about the but Alvin's first one? Yeah, but Elvis is.
Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Oh we got we got there first. We scooped them. Yeah, we scooped them to
like a long time before they found it. Yeah, that was a while ago. That was probably when the Elvis
film was coming out because I imagine that's what we're trying to capitalize on. Yeah,
that's what it was probably around about that time. That's what the V. Lady and Vandy was trying to

(15:56):
capitalize on trying to something that made that that's some of that Elvis movie market and money.
Exactly. Oh well, so that is Lascapaldi in chips. Oh, in a chip wrapper. So if I remember I'll stick
a photo on the Instagram probably forget it, but I'll try and remember to do that later on.
What else have you seen this week Greg? Well, yeah, I've got yet another, depending how you look at it,

(16:20):
a supernatural story or people lying about ghosts depending on how you feel about all that,
but this is a hen party. So this comes from the star. That's where they are this month, the daily star
that is. The headline meets hen party flees Scottish beauty spot after haunting group photo on
Earth's lake tragedy. So the pre-wedding celebrations took a spooky turn after the women who traveled to

(16:46):
the remote estate were left horrified by what they found when you look back in their pictures.
So the gang of friends they'd headed up to a remote estate doesn't actually say the name of the estate.
It just says the remote estate. The journalist has omitted the name of it. It's an Argyllian butte.
The gang of friends headed up there to enjoy themselves before a friend's upcoming wedding,

(17:07):
but their night of fun was ruined after this spot is something in the background of a team picture
they took back and onto the lock. Further investigations into the appearance of a young boy in their
photograph coughed up some sinister results. Strange shoes of the word. Strange shoes of the word
coughed there with the hen party believe in they had spotted the blue boy. Now I can't say the

(17:28):
words the blue boy without the refrain. So I made my read list today that song, just the part of that
song kept coming to my head. So the blue boy, by the blue boy, the band was called the blue boy.
The blue boy was the subject of a film broadcast by the BBC back in the 1990s about a four-year-old

(17:50):
who drowned sadly in Loch Eck. The Emma Thompson featuring dramatisation has since seen a
popularisation of an alleged haunting at the lake which happened when a boy drowned in the 17th
century. Images of the boy in the hen party emerged and sparked a massive online debate. Someone read it,
questioned whether the photograph was real, while others said they would not sleep tonight

(18:14):
due to the eerie sighting. The blue boy screenwriter Paul Martin previously said of the haunting,
I was talking to the hotelier about it and he mentioned the blue boy. This he said was a young
child who had been in holiday with his parents in the hotel and he had been sleepwalking during the
night. He had strayed outside, fallen into the lock and drown. When they found his body, it was

(18:36):
blue with the cold. Hotel staff had noticed that things like cut the rain plates were often out of
place for no apparent reason. Perhaps more sinister than that was the fact that they sometimes found
wet footprints up the stairs in the corridor. So I'm looking at this picture, the kind of people
want to believe in these kind of things, right? It's fine. The so-called ghostly boy looks like a little

(18:59):
boy from, maybe like in 1970's, public information film about the dangers of playing in a pile on
station or something. It looks a wee bit like Tucker Jenkins in the original episodes of Grange Hill.
The ladies are all in the sort of classic ladies in holiday. So a team picture, they've got masks,

(19:21):
so they are friend, the friend's face, for some reason, they're sort of assembled on a stack of like
chopped up flat logs in the wee boy. The alleged ghostly wee boys can peeking around on the left hand
corner of the... I mean, he actually looks like he's trying to look up the girl's skirts.
So what do you think it is then? Is it just a random wee boy? Or is it... I think it's a slow

(19:49):
news day made to be quite honest because he said that they fleed the beauty spot in Tera after
looking back at it on their pictures. So they were just sitting in the bar that night looking at
the pictures on their phone and saw this little, this wee guy in there that made them all scared.
I don't know. He uses a word "coffed up", you know? Yeah, yeah. So they just thought who's this little

(20:09):
pair of her trying to look up our skirts and then they fled. It must be a ghost. I'm going to send you
the picture right now so you can let me know your thoughts. I mean, I'm very cynical about these
sort of things as we've were established in the podcast over the years. I think it's a lot of
attention seeking nonsense but anyway, I'll send it over to you. I wish your thoughts. Is that a ghostly

(20:30):
little boy or is that just a wee pair of her trying to look at it? Because the girls are wearing quite
short skirts. So the girls on the edge, she's the pictures. Yeah, they are. Yeah, the one on the far,
right? Yeah, it's definitely a... You should have moved over to get a better view. Yeah.
I don't know. Just looks like a wee boy. I see what you mean. Looks a bit like Tucker Jenkins but
I don't know. It's just a wee boy, like probably I fish in or something and yeah, I don't mean like that.

(20:56):
I don't even know what that would mean. Fishing, like looking up girls' skirts but yeah, he's just...
I don't know. No, I don't think it's a ghostly apparition but yeah, it's just a wee boy trying to
photo-bomb the photo. Just the Tucker looking for Benian, Alan and the guys, you know? Yeah.
Anyway, that's my story, which your next one this week? Well, we're going back to the 90s, Greg.

(21:20):
We're not actually going back to the 90s because I'm not sure if I'm going to be a date if it was.
I think it was about 10 years ago it says that this occurred but it's going to be speaking about the
90s band Fun Loving Criminals. Remember them? I do. Yeah. I like the fun Loving Criminals.
Yeah, first album. Yeah, I quite like them. Time to sort of... Yeah, that first album, I couldn't name

(21:41):
anything else really, that, you know, I think they've basically dined out on that album for the rest of
their career, I would say, but hey, you know, it was a good album, you know, Scooby Snacks was a good
song that we all enjoyed and I fondly remember. But this is from Glasgow Times yesterday and a
fun Loving Criminals member has told how Glasgow ended his stage diving career. Frank Benbeni,

(22:06):
Fun Loving Criminals drummer and lead singer of a band called Uncle Frank, had said that the city is
famous for seeing his last-ever dive into the audience. Speaking of the Glasgow Times, Frank said,
Glasgow is famous for Uncle Frank for being the very last-stage dive that I ever did.
It was about 10 years ago. They're American, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, from New York? Yeah, I'm

(22:26):
not going to do the... I'm not going to do the accident. It was about 10 years ago and we were finishing
up our set in the Glasgow Barrelands. It was crazy and it was the last song. I was known to occasionally
do stage dives, which are quite scary because I'm a big dude. So I always make sure that Aira I'm planning
to land is also full of big dudes. Okay, Frank. It's a time and a place for that. As you know, it's Glasgow.

(22:50):
They're ready for everything. So they were encouraging me. Come on, Frank, jump! So I did a huge dive and I
remember landing and knocking my head back. And as I was walking to the dressing room, I noticed there
was blood coming from my two front teeth. I didn't encounter anything of it. I went for a shower and
people were coming back for autographs and photos. This young girl came back and she went, "Frank,

(23:13):
that was brilliant. Will you sign my album?" I said, "Of course." And as I was signing it, she goes,
"Oh, by the way, you landed on me during your stage dive." And I thought, "Fuck, I could have killed her.
She was so little." Then she lifted her fringe and showed me that she had two teeth marks with
some blood on her forehead. And I went, "Oh my god, they're my teeth." She laughed about it.

(23:35):
She laughed about it. I thought it was the best thing, but I said, "I'm never doing that ever again."
Frank is set to play at stereo in the city on October 9th with his band Uncle Frank. And the show
comes after the group's newest album Diablo will be released on October 6th. Frank said he cannot
wait to return to their wicked city. He said, "Glasco is such a great place to play music. It's wicked."

(24:00):
The amount of crazy nights we've had in the barrow lands I can't even tell you. I have so many
fond memories at such a beautiful place. I always say they were playing catch-up the minute we get to
Glasgow the venue because everyone in the crowd is always so many. In other parts of the world,
we're usually the merry ones and everyone is a bit docile. Docile, they don't think enough. Yeah,

(24:21):
they don't. So yeah, there might even be a few famous faces in the crowd. Frank said,
"Some of the characters that we've had come along as CR shows in the past were just crazy.
We've had Glasgow gangsters and even famous actors." We have Martin Compton once as well as the
bass player, the bass player, the bass player from Bithec Lyro and an actor from Train Sporting.

(24:42):
Doesn't say who it is. So tickets for Uncle Frank's Glasgow show are on sale now.
So there you go. Yeah, he managed to wedges teeth into some poor girl's head when he went stage-diving.
But have you ever staged-dived? No, never, never done it. I'm not like, I've got too much
regard for my own wellbeing and evidently trust issues as well. But I could just imagine the sort of

(25:10):
the sea of people parting and connecting with like a beard-wrenched dance floor. Yeah, probably not the best.
We all know that you used to love a little stage-dived, didn't you? I've never actually staged-dived.
I've always wanted to, but I never staged-dived. I used to crowd-serve all the time.
Oh, that's it. I was going to say, why did you close your colours and throw you out, but it's for a crowd-serve?

(25:33):
Yeah, I've crowd-serve. That was the last time I ever crowd-serve because it got thrown out.
But yeah, remember I used to love it. I remember a crowd-serve in Quincy, Uasis and Radiohead,
crowd-serve to that. Man, actually, Preachers, crowd-serve to like twice, that gig, that was brilliant.
And then yeah, Ocean Colour Seen, and got thrown out. It was like, "Fucking cunt." So,
well, right off Ocean Colour Seen after that. I mean, it wasn't their fault, you know?

(25:57):
Well, I wasn't, you know, you may have been kind of pointed out by one of them.
You get that fucking loud out of here. I've not even played the riverboat song yet and he's
fucking acting like a cunt. I, I've never been, like, I used to enjoy going to gigs, but I'd never
liked to get to near the front because I think the closest I ever got was when you and I watched

(26:23):
the Lootang Clan at Tina Park. And we were very near the front, as I recall, like really close.
And my sister, she made her way right to the front and asked one of the security guys to pull her over
so she could walk around because she was getting crushed. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, I never really
liked it. And then we met at Sea Guns & Moses a few months ago. We worked quite near the front,

(26:44):
and I was sort of dreading it a bit, but it was fine because it wasn't like, it wasn't like those
exciting, like, amptop days. I've pointed out, I mean, the average Guns & Moses fan is probably about
my age or even a little bit older, so not quite as rambunctious as we were back then. But,
you know, I like to be, I like to be, I like to be, I like, I could view the band, but not so I've got

(27:08):
somebody like, dribbling my ear or leaning on me, you know, or climbing on me to crowdsurf.
Yeah, I would say I used to love being down at the front, or I'd like to be down at the front
or in the middle, so I could crowdsurf when I was younger. And then, you know, but then I would go to
back down the front, but yeah, the olds I've got the further back I stand when I go to the end now,

(27:30):
like, you want to be able to leave, but to be honest, when it's finished. Yeah, like, I want
perfect proximity, so I've got a view of the band, I'm close to the bar, close to the toilet,
and I've close to the exit. Yeah. And generally, usually look up the set lists online,
so you know what the last song they're going to play is, soon as that starts, if you don't like it,
I'm off. So that's the kind of thing where you'll be going, plus, a lot of the bands and music I go

(27:54):
to see nowadays, it's not exactly the kind of stuff you're going to be broken out to at the front.
More phone. One of the last concerts I think I remember being right at the front for was
public enemy at the music call. I was glad I did, because I got a high five from flavour flake,
so that was like fucking night mate. Yeah. He came down like the little gangway at the front and

(28:18):
went along the front row, giving everyone high five, so that was, yeah, that was good. That made my
night that night. I used to be quite friendly with a guy called Darren Jones, I hope he won't
help me, he won't make me tell this story, but I knew him through, and I saw a circuit of nights out
and stuff, so I was actually at school with his younger sister, but Darren was one of those kids

(28:40):
that we all looked up to, a little bit, so I mean he was a big Guns and Rose's fan, like massive
Guns and Rose's fan at the time, he even had long blond wavy hair, looked a bit like Duff,
used to wear leather trousers to nights out and stuff like that, and I bumped into him at Tena Park
in 1996, it was the first Tena Park I went to, and I sort of lost the people that I was with,

(29:03):
because they'd gone to see the fucking, they'd gone to talent tent or something like that,
and I was like, fuck that, fucking dog, what was he? I don't know, I'd want somebody to play a song
with it, a chorus, fuck that, I want to go and just soak up some atmosphere, so I happened to
bump into Darren and a few of the other guys and they said, "oh, we're going to go watch a prodigy,
do we not come with this?" and I was like, "yeah, yeah, so we got there a wee bit early before the

(29:23):
project started and we're quite close to the front, and Darren had a plastic cup of cider that he'd
be with Sipin' drinking, so like, it's getting closer to the project coming on, people are coming behind us,
getting busier and busier, and Darren's like, "oh, fuck, I should've gone for a push before we,
before we came here." So he's wearing a sort of white shirt, untocked, under his leather jacket,

(29:46):
and he's got his leather trousers on, so he just fucking sticks to the cup under his shirt,
Pesh is into the plastic cup and then launched it over his shoulder behind them, I was like,
"oh Jesus, cannot believe you just fucking did that." He says, "what are you saying?" His
defence was standing here for an hour holding a paint of Pesh. I was like, "ah, fair enough."

(30:07):
Yeah, that is fair enough, that's his point there, but yeah, "oh come on, that's disgusting."
That is hell, man, why, how do people do that? That's rotting, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, so whenever
I get a splash, they're anything that they can conjure ever since, so I was at the back of my mind,
is there somebody's pish that's just fucking, it's, I'd say there's a 90% chance that it probably is,

(30:30):
something that's Pesh that you've been splashed with, yes, I would say so, if you're at a concert,
it depends on the concert, if you've gone to see the hand Zimmer or something, then, probably not,
but yeah, imagine it probably as Pesh. I'm sure our mutual friend would still be reaching for the
lasers at hand Zimmer, "just imagine that, couldn't he?" Yes, yes I can actually,
didn't I hear the copter to the Inception soundtrack?

(30:54):
Oh, that's a lot of my advice, do you need me? Okay Greg, have you seen anything else in the news
this week? Nope, that's all, that's all I've got this week? Okay, well, before we got onto our
sponsor, Greg, and before we get onto what we're going to be talking about today, I've got a little
game, would you like to play a little game? Well, to, okay, right, so we are going to be talking about,

(31:16):
shortly, a classic episode of Taggart, and Taggart, one of the longest running Scottish TV shows,
and it was always kind of well-renowned as being that show that Scottish actors would cut their teeth
in, they'd always appear, everyone's been in Taggart. I've got a list of 10 Scottish actors that
have all appeared on the swalley before, and I wanted to, you to tell me, have they been in an episode

(31:39):
of Taggart? Okay, so, I haven't quite, I couldn't pick a proper name, I've got, I'm stuck between,
are they Taggart, or Taggart, or are they Mark McManus, who famously appeared in a few episodes of
Taggart, or are they Michelle McManus, who didn't appear in Taggart, so, I think Taggart or Taggart

(32:00):
got a better laugh, so we'll go with that. Okay, so 10 Scottish actors, so I'll give them an
introduction, you know, you know, and then you can tell me if they've been in Taggart. Okay, so I'll start
off with, I'll start off with, it's not an easy one, but I'll start off one. He's only been in one
episode of the Culture Swally so far, which is a shocking shame, but he's not in a lot of Scottish stuff,
but I think he would be described as a bit of a national treasure. Okay, I give you Alan Cumming,

(32:25):
has Alan Cumming ever appeared in Taggart? Taggart. Yes, he has, he was in three episodes in 1986,
he was in the series Death Call. So yes, you got that right, well done. Okay, number two, I would say,
if we were to come up with a top five Scottish actors list, this guy would be knocking

(32:47):
close, he would definitely be there or thereabouts, he's made five appearances on the culture swalley
to date, but has David Hayman ever been in an episode of Taggart? Hmm, it feels like he should,
he definitely should have been, but I think Hayman was maybe a wee bit too famous by the time Taggart
had started, unless, unless, maybe, no, I don't think, no, I want to say Tag aren't. According to

(33:12):
the internet movie database, which I believe the kids call IMDB, David Hayman has never been in an
episode of Taggart. I thought it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, number three, he's made five appearances
on the culture swally so far, and I believe he was my first choice for my swalley tug of war team,

(33:32):
Rab Affleck, has Rab Affleckever been in Taggart? Again, it feels like he definitely should have appeared
in an episode of Taggart, just because, you know, when Taggart was in its pomp, that's probably when
Rab Affleck's star was highest, but I think it's too easy, I'm going to say Tag aren't. Oh, I'm afraid,

(33:54):
Rab Affleck has appeared in two episodes of Taggart Greg. In 1998, he played a character called Max Muscle,
and he was also in a 2008 episode playing a character called Walker Glass, I guess, Max Muscle
didn't get resurrected, so. Okay, so you're on a two out of three, so far. Okay, number four, he has made

(34:20):
six appearances on the culture swalley, two of which were playing the same character because it was
something we did the sequel of, and that's the role he'll be remembered for for the rest of his career,
let's say Ewan Bremner, has Ewan Bremner ever been in an episode of Taggart? I think he
has, I think I've been watching stuff with Taggart, I think he has the, I'm going to say Tag art.

(34:42):
Ewan Bremner was in the 1990 episode Love Knot, and we'd won appearance in Taggart, so yes,
you've got your back, your back, three out of four so far. Okay, number five Greg, I can't believe this,
this guy's only made four appearances on the culture swalley so far, which is something I think we
need to rectify, because again, he's a very much of an elder statesman and someone that I know we both

(35:04):
hugely like and love watching, but has Bill Patterson ever been in an episode of Taggart? We know he
played Ali Fraser in Ovidisane Pit, let's see if we've ever been in Taggart. I'm going to say Tag
aren't, I think, I think Bill's probably too much for an established actor by Lynn. Bill Patterson has
never been in an episode of Taggart, four out of five, you're on Firecrack. I mean, he was a movie star,

(35:27):
he was a movie star, like, around about the time that Killer came out, he had done comfort and joy,
yeah. All right, all right. Okay, I guess that was too easy for you then, was it? Just for you.
So I mean, it's school, it's got a show I'm working out, you know. Okay, number six on the list,
can't debunk, can't debunk, how does your big men's grow? Shirley Henderson,

(35:49):
she's made six appearances on the culture swalley so far,
but how Shirley Henderson ever been in an episode of Taggart? She's known probably to millions
as Moaning Murtel, but I've never been moaning in Mary Hill. My instinct tells me that that's a tag

(36:09):
aren't. Shirley Henderson has never appeared in an episode of Taggart, you are correct Greg,
five out of six so far, you're on Fire. Okay, he has made eight appearances on the culture swalley
so far and he's someone that we love as well and he's Peter Mullins best mate, but Gary Lewis,
has Gary Lewis ever appeared in Taggart? It's a pure guess, but I'm going to say Tag aren't.

(36:33):
Gary Lewis has appeared in three episodes of Taggart, playing two different characters. He
was in two episodes in 1996 and one episode in 2008. So five out of seven so far. I start
watching it by then. She's made four appearances on the culture swalley, but she'll always be known

(36:53):
as Isabel from Tape the High Road. Eileen McCallum has Eileen McCallum ever been in Taggart?
Um, I feel like she has. I want to say Tag art. Eileen McCallum has appeared in six episodes of Taggart,
playing two different characters. She was in episodes in 1986 and then reprised the same
character in 1990, which is odd for Taggart. And then played a completely different character

(37:17):
in three episodes in 1994. So yeah, she has been in Taggart, so on six out of eight. It's getting
exciting. He's made seven appearances on the culture swalley so far in a varying degree of roles.
He died of toxoplasmosis in train spotting, but did Kevin McKidd ever die or kill anyone in Taggart?
Um, I'm going to say Tag aren't. Kevin McKidd has never appeared in an episode of Taggart. So yeah,

(37:42):
so seven out of nine. Okay, I'm going for the final one now, Greg. He's in fucking everything,
including I've never seen it, but I'm led to believe he is in Wonder Woman 1984. Can't remember who
told me that. Or if it's ever been mentioned on the swally, but Matt Costello has Matt Costello
ever been in Taggart? I know that he definitely has been in Taggart. I even know the run that he's

(38:07):
on because he stars opposite Cosmo and the one that Cosmo's in as well. They play exterminators,
they play Pestic Seminators. Yeah, Matt Costello has been in five episodes of Taggart, playing
three different characters in 1988, 2005 and 2008. So, well, Greg, you scored an incredible
eight out of ten on that run. So, I'm very impressed. It was just Gary Lewis and Rob Affleck that

(38:32):
liked you done. That's my undoing. Yeah, actually, I don't really, Gary Lewis would have done a tag
out. I don't know why I thought he hadn't, anyway. Okay, I'll take that. I'll take it out of ten.
Yeah, that's not bad at all. Not bad at all. It was actually quite a difficult game of research
because every actor that I thought of, and he checked that I had DB and I thought, "Fuck,
see, they've been in Taggart." I came up with some belters and I checked and I thought, "Oh,

(38:54):
fuck, they were in one episode, 1996." I can't, shite the bed. Okay, well, that concludes Taggart
or TagArnt, right? So, before we go on to what we're going to be talking about today,
which is Taggart, let's have a little word from our sponsor. And our sponsor on this episode is
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(39:19):
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(40:02):
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All right, so it was your turn this week, Nicky, so what we're going to be talking about on the

(40:47):
culture Swally today. Well Greg, as I mentioned on the last episode, it's been a long time since we've
done an episode of Taggart, and for the fact it was one of the, you know, Scotland's longest running
TV shows I thought, it's about time we did another episode. So we are looking at the classic Taggart
episodes Nest of Vipers, which was originally broadcast on ITV in three weekly parts from the ninth

(41:09):
to the 23rd of January 1992. In this series, the discovery of two skulls at a building site
causes DCI, Jim Taggart to reopen a missing person inquiry from four years earlier. As a university
professor begins to reconstruct the faces of the murder victims, a batch of poisonous snakes and
spiders are stolen from a Glasgow biotech company and are then used in a bizarre killing spree.

(41:32):
Is the killer trying to cover up his crimes and can Taggart, Jardine and Reed crack the case before
more people die? Starring Mark McManus, James McPherson, Blythe Duff and a very young
Dougray Scott. We must have mentioned this episode countless times on the Swally. It's always kind
of the classic go-to for us Nest of Vipers, and I remember watching it when it very first aired

(41:54):
in 1992, but I'd never seen it since, but what about yourself Greg? What are your memories of
Nest of Vipers and had you watched it since it aired? Did you watch it when it first aired?
Yeah, I mean I watched it when it was first shown as well. I remember sitting and watching it with
my mum in 1992. And the thing was, I mean, in 1992 I was 14, coming up for 15, and I am

(42:16):
the real thing about spiders. I've since been being a father has helped me to sort it out,
and you know, I'm much better now, but back then I was pretty arachnophobic, so for all the
the reasons you just mentioned, this one really, really resonated with me, but Taggart as I show was

(42:37):
always one that we watched as a family. Well, I'll say a family, I mean my mum in my state father,
later on when he came along, and yeah, this was one that really stuck in my mind.
Yeah, I think it's, I'm exactly the same as you I used to watch Taggart with my mum, and there's
something about this one just really sticks with me, and I think I remember I was going away on a

(43:00):
like a school skiing trip, we went to Braemar, and it must have been about January or February,
so round about the time that this first aired. I think it was after it aired, and I remember
it was kind of one of the first times it'd been away without my mum type thing, because it was a
class trip. Yeah, and I was shit on the room, and I remember checking my bed every night,
in case there was a snake in it, because you know, and I did that for years, and that's what this episode

(43:23):
really does, like it really taps into something that a lot of people will have a fear of snakes and
spiders, and Taggart has always been such a great show in terms of, you know, it's gritty, and it's
realistic, like none of the murders are like over the top in stuff, and killer, they're like, I choking
women with stockings and stuff, and it's, I think that's, it's always been realistic, but this
just really plays on the fear really well, and I remember it being shocking at the time, and

(43:48):
you know, the image that you get later on, if that snake slidding at a Douglas's bed, as soon as I
saw that, I was just transported back, and I remember seeing that for the first time, and being a bit scared,
and yeah, for years I would always, well not years, but I remember checking my bed for snakes and
spiders afterwards, because it was a, it's just scary thought that that could happen. Yeah, I mean, my,

(44:09):
sort of fear of snakes whenever one that I was particularly worried about, because snakes always
seemed, I don't know what we do have, we have adors in Scotland, but they're like up in the trossics,
in the countryside, and everything, so snakes were all, were all with something that I would never
worry about, because they were worrying about a lion or something, or what a hippo, you know what I mean,

(44:31):
there is spiders just always just fucking gave me the willies, and my arachnophobia was quite a,
it sort of made me quite a figure of fun around the house with my loving family, and I remember
they came back to me really distinctly watching this back, so I don't think I'd watched it since the
first time it came out, back in the night, so I don't think I had, and I remember the, one of the

(44:54):
early scenes when Doctor Nielsen picks up a wee plastic tub, and there's the spider in it, and I
remember my mother turning to look at me with her eyes wide, just to basically content me off,
because I was a big Jessie that was scared of spiders, you know, that's a bit cruel, but yeah, in the

(45:17):
in the lab that they're in with all those spiders and snakes, yeah, it's going to give anyone a bit
of a hippie-gb, and in fact that's what a lot of the, the cops kind of allude to, you know, they are
a bit scared in terms of the snakes, and how can you work with them, and you know, but the generally,
the doctors, and of course the zookeeper calling it, we meet later on, you know, they've got no fear
of being around these animals and handling them in the way they have, and it's quite matter of fact

(45:42):
when, as later on when I think Jordan speaking to Christine and asks if I've been bitten or anything,
she says, "No," like Doctor Nielsen has a couple of times, but I guess that's, yeah, part of the job really,
and it's okay because we keep an even on site, so it's all fine. Yeah, I know, fuck that. I mean, I do
find those types of creatures quite interesting, but I went late to, I went late to work in our laboratory,

(46:06):
things like that, fuck that, and even though fuck that, but, you know, I thought, we were, I liked about
this one, watching it as a, as a sort of relatively mature adult, is it's really quite, it's really quite a
original, you know what I mean, because I can, you know, like somebody committing murders using highly

(46:28):
venomous creatures, I mean, it's, it's mostly snakes and then towards the end of the poison arrow
frogs, but I don't think I've ever, I never, I can't think of anything that I've seen before or since
that, where that's, they can applaud, like, you know what, it's, it's, it's, it's, hugely original for
they come murder mystery, because normally it's like, it's sort of shadow way unseen, a salient, and then

(46:53):
you have the reveal, you know, but, which I suppose you still do have to some extent, because we see
the killers like feet as he's walking in and, you know, and whatnot, but yeah, it's a massively
original, yes, yeah, I think, I mean, might be missing, but the only thing I can really think of is,
because like James Bond with a tarantula, um, that he, Dr. Norton's with, and you know, yeah, doesn't get to

(47:16):
actually bite him, but the big time leather's we shoot,
fuck off, I know it's like, fuck it's kind of,
the spatula with extreme flesh, this, you know, no putting a jar over it and sticking a beer
out underneath as that fucking, get that, fuck, but you're right, it is a really original kind of story,

(47:40):
and it did have me gripped over the three episodes, although watched it as like a two and a half hour,
um, yeah, film effectively, but it did have me really gripped, and I, I genuinely couldn't really
remember, I was pretty certain the killer was, but I'm, like, did I,
misremember this? Like, is it been so long since I'd seen it? And I'd forgotten, you know, it's
amazing that the memories that come back, you know, I'd forgotten things like, I don't speak about

(48:05):
that later, but one of the big, like, oh my god, was when Christine dies, and when she's in the
hospital, she's like, oh, I, I just start bleeding and I'm, oh, they fuck, like, I wasn't expecting that,
to happen, I'm thinking, oh, it's okay, she'll probably live, but, fuck, no, so all those kind of
memories came back watching it, and yeah, you're right, it's a really original way, and the little,

(48:27):
it's so cleverly done in terms of some of the little little mentions of things, like when Christine
comes home, and she's like, I'll turn the heat and down, it's about hot in here, and Jardine's like,
oh, over exaggerating, fucking hot, and then you see him click and like, wait a minute, oh no,
there's a snake in your bag, it's, um, yeah, it's quite, it's quite, um, I know, the puppy,

(48:50):
interesting way they did it, the, the, the, the puppy dog did his best, the, like, war and everybody,
you know what I mean, she's like, yeah, really unusual, it doesn't usually bark like this,
so much, you know, and you're like, well, someone's going about fucking hiding snakes and people's
houses, you know, basically, you know, so, uh, obviously to talk about the show, and of course,

(49:12):
it was great to see Mark McManus as back, obviously, as Taggart, because we'd, we'd miss him, he's just
such a, a wonderful character, and such a wonderful creation, and again, he's just got some great
one-liners here, and of course, I know in the previous episode, which spoke about which was killer,
that was the first episode, and we had the, the, the partnership, um, of Taggart with, uh, with Livingston,

(49:34):
but of course, now Livingston's gone, and it's, it's Jardine, like, Jardine that he sees with,
that's classic Taggart for me, Taggart and Jardine, yeah, and I, I liked to, I liked the relationship that they
had, and I, I think this was must be kind of the, not the beginning, but, but Blythe Duff joined, I think,
only like a couple of years before, so, yeah, still kind of crafting out Jackie Reed's character as

(49:56):
well, you can tell she's still not new, but, yeah, and if she's not, yeah, she's, it's not the three
that you would always kind of, you know, remember, she's still involved heavily, but not quite as,
as much, um, but yeah, that was, I really enjoyed seeing the, the relationship there between,
you know, James McPherson and Mark McManus, it's, that's classic Taggart for me.

(50:17):
Well, I watched, I did, I can't, when I turned, walked down, when I was, but when I was,
I incubated my own, I watched a lot of Taggart and STD there, like, from the beginning, and there,
there is an, there's a, a story, like a three or four episodes story where Livingston and Jardine
are together, you know, I, I, it might be Livingston's, maybe, maybe it's his last one,

(50:39):
before he, before Peter Duncan left, but, you know, it feels a little bit like him handing the,
the sort of baton to Jardine. Yeah, but it's actually really good because it's, then it's, it would,
it would be good to have seen a few more stories with the three of them because,
you know, they hold the, the, the big juxtaposition between Livingston and Taggart was Livingston

(51:02):
came from Edinburgh and he's a university graduate, you know, there's, there's the famous,
we don't have the ligatures in Maryhill on line and killer, you know, when he's, and then with Jardine,
he, it sort of feels a bit like he's cut from the same cloth as Taggart because when he's
in should just, Taggart mentions how he knew Jardine's father and everything and the sort of these
family, but then the juxtaposition between Jardine and Taggart is, is that Jardine's a Christian,

(51:26):
so he doesn't drink. Yeah. He's very religious and, uh, and Taggart basically roasts him of a chance
he can get, so yeah, it was, it was, it was quite smart because it would have been, it would have been
easy to have another partnership with, like, another generational divide in the same way that
Taggart and Livingston were in different backgrounds and everything else, but, you know, Jardine is quite,

(51:51):
he's not just a replacement for Livingston, he's, he's very unique as a character in his own way
and then by the time you bring, uh, Blythe Duffin, you know, because I think she sort of started out,
and I've, very much in a bit part as this kind of WPC and, yes, not to have that, she's, what,
we only have maybe like a wee line or two, per episode or whatever, and then gradually flesh the
character out, made her detective and everything. Yeah, I think I've read over the course of her

(52:15):
years in Taggart, she got promoted three times, right, terms of the, like, her character. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like the, yeah, I read that on, James McPherson's first day, not filming
nest of Vipers, but on his first kind of day, you know, after they'd finished filming, he was so
wait, you go and get the bus home and Mark McManus turned to him and said, you're in Taggart now, son,

(52:37):
get a taxi. Um, right, it's just a, I saw you can't get in the bus, son, that's no, well, that's no use,
you can't be doing that. I did quite a bit of research into Mark McManus for this, like, I think
more so than I did for Killer and his life is actually, was actually really interesting, because

(52:57):
he's famously born in Hamilton in 1935, but then they, his family moved to London when he was three
and then they moved to Australia when he was 16 and that's where he began acting. He'd then come
back to the UK until 1971 and he was in a couple of things. He's in, I watched a bit of a, uh,
a, uh, old drama called Sam, which is set in Yorkshire during the, the pression of the 1930s and he

(53:21):
plays a Yorkshire unemployed co-minor and he's Yorkshire accent is fucking really good, by the way,
like really, really good, because he used to get pelted a bit Mark McManus for his act and I always
remember there was, everybody liked him, but there was a bit of, you know, there was a sort of acceptance
that he wasn't like the greatest actor, but he was really good in that and then I watched them
in this, uh, the strangers, which was this, uh, uh, police procedural show set in Manchester where he

(53:48):
plays a Scottish, do-er-scotish detective called Jack Mambay and now I'll send you the, it's, I mean,
he's basically Taggart, basically, but a bit younger, um, but what resonated with me a bit, oh,
before that, uh, Gerald Kelly, I saw him talking about Taggart and he was a bit Mark McManus specifically
and he was talking about how Mark McManus had been really good to him on Killer because he was one

(54:11):
of his first acting roles and things and he said, I really felt like Mark is a quite an experienced
actor by then, took me under his wing and he said, he was telling me a story, what he was felt he was,
he had a guest spot on Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo and that they famous Australian thing and he said,
he was in a car and there's like, were they, one of the drivers, there's a bag, they twitching and moving
and they're every now and again, the driver, we'd go and get some water and pour it over the bag,

(54:34):
he said, and eventually he said, Mark asked them, um, what, what is that in the bag, mate? And he said,
oh, it's Skippy, and he said, fucking hell, Sidney Manis said, well, if that's how they treat the star,
I mean, what are they going to do in you? But, um, when this is actually a bit sad because when
during this run of Taggart, sort of 1992, '93, '93, Mark McManus famously passed away in 1994,

(54:57):
but before that, it was going through like a really, really tough time. So, famously, because I kind of
function in alcoholic and his mother, he had just lost his mother in 1992 and then a sister in Australia
passed away, a younger sister and then he's wife, uh, about a year before Mark McManus died himself,
his wife died of terminal cancer. So, although, all during that time, he was still shooting Taggart and,

(55:22):
um, one of the documentaries I was watching for less, James McPherson was saying, you know, the camera
could, you can really see the sadness in his eyes, you know, when he, when he, when he was filming,
and the fact that he would sometimes get, get pelted about for his act and like, the camera could see
these little cues and these little sort of a size and things that you wouldn't necessarily see if

(55:43):
you were acting alongside them, you know, that how he would react to stuff in the script, you know,
and other people's performance and things, it's actually a really nuanced performance. But,
why, what I was thinking was, for somebody who didn't come back to the UK until he was in these
mid-30s, his parents must have had the strongest fucking WG accents. Yeah. I was thinking that as well,

(56:05):
as you were explaining his background, and I'm like, he left when he was, what, three and then he left
Australia at 60? Yeah, they really must have been strong to impart that into him. Yeah. Or they hung out
with a lot of Glasgow X-pats in Australia. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, because his Glasgow accent, well, it's
his accent, which is absolutely spot on. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think everyone kind of has a good story

(56:26):
about Mark McManus and, you know, they, they'd like him and I think he was, uh, he was well respected
in terms of an actor. I did read that Dougray Scott, I read an interview with him about this episode
and about his time on Taggart and he said that he saw himself as a bit of a method actor when he was
younger and he stayed up all night to mimic that last scene where he's, it comes out the jail sale. He's

(56:49):
said, "Gene, I stayed up all night so I looked like shit because I thought Colin would do it like shit."
Yeah. So when Mark saw him and he said, "Jesus, you're looking like crap, me, so well, stayed up all night,
you know, a method actor." Mark says, "Oh, okay, well, if you're that method, how about a puncher for real?"
Because it'll look good for the cameras. So Dougray's like, "Hi, okay, yeah, yeah." He said, "I didn't realize

(57:13):
that Mark McManus used to be an amateur boxer." And he says, "He says, he fucking floored me with that puncher."
He really called it. It's a backhand, it's a backhand that as well, wouldn't it? He goes to him.
So I thought that was great, just Mark. Obviously helping him out. Well, if you're a method actor,
how about a puncher for real? Yeah. Does it think brilliant actor? There's a line that is, and it's not

(57:39):
in this one. I can't remember which episode it's in, but it's a conversation between him and Livingston.
And it's, and I wonder to myself, is this in the script or is this McManus just sort of riffing,
but it's sort of riffing, but Livingston appears in the scene of some crime in McManus,
or rather, a tagger, it says to them, "Oh, do you smell like a bloody broody?" And Livingston looks

(58:03):
like shit. And he says, "I wasn't, it says it wasn't beer, I wasn't drinking beer. I was drinking the
cures all night and Taggart goes, "The cures, are you sure it's a boys' school you went to?"
So they find these skulls, of course, and Taggart instantly thinks back that it's this woman or

(58:23):
this girl that's been missing. And in fact, her mum, Annie gets in touch with Taggart, Annie Gilmore,
you know what he says, when, but he hears that she's been in touch, "Oh yeah, I thought she would."
Now, we saw this in Killer, Taggart getting a bit too close to the, the female. Yeah.
And I haven't watched enough episodes myself again to see if this is a regular thing,
because he does seem quite close to Annie Gilmore, but I don't think there's a, like, any romantic

(58:48):
kind of relationship there. I think he genuinely feels for her, because obviously Taggart's got a
daughter. Well, that's, I think he feels that connection and he wants, he wants closure, because even
when, I think it's a jardin, when he says, you know, hopefully, hopefully it's not her, and Taggart's
like, well, I hope it is because it'll give closure. Yeah. And I think that shows that, yeah, he does

(59:11):
just maybe want to, that's the reason for the closeness, but it just seemed a little bit inappropriate
in a way to me. Just get Dr Andrews is preliminary, a port in a two-scale, and so. Yeah, we do fit
the skulls. One would give an overall living stature of between five-foot five and five-foot six,
and the other between five-foot four and five-foot five.

(59:34):
Janet Gilmore was five-foot five. It's sort of a lot of female, son. So the samples are going off,
so within a look we should find out how long they've been in the ground. So while we wait for the
scientist, Johnny Gilmore waits and hopes. Hope's that it isn't. Hope's it is. She wants an end to
wondering, that can't say a blamemam. Yeah, I mean, I thought that to begin with, I thought,

(01:00:00):
why is he taking such an interest here? And then as that part of the story unfolded, it kind of
made more sense to me because it seemed like Annie's daughter would probably be around the same
sort of age as a Taggart's daughter. And you know, and as that whole sort of police thing of always
wanting to resolve things and tie things up. And because I don't think that too, especially when

(01:00:25):
you sort of sacks off the burn supper with a disabled piper. I mean,
his whole reaction to that, you know, will the be disabled piper, they sort of, that face he does,
he's just, he's so politically incorrect, but I mean, it's a different time, you know. You know,
you never felt like he was walking the disabled. It was more just the, well, whatever next,

(01:00:50):
kind of, you know, sort of thing. Because his wife, his wife, Jean, isn't in this one that much
relation. We've got a couple of scenes, isn't she? Yeah, she's only in those two scenes. One
when she tells them about the disabled piper and the other one, I think when she's watching the
haggis address and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's it. Yeah, she's only in two scenes.

(01:01:10):
Yeah. So, no, I mean, there's a real tragedy about that sort of channel of the story. They
Annie Gellmore and, you know, she's, you know, she's, she's, her daughter's been gone missing. She's
lost her husband before. So, can I find out in between the daughter going missing and when, by the
time we catch up with them and, you know, they how that all resolves with her, you know, she's so

(01:01:32):
over the moon about when they manage to identify that, yeah, it is her missing daughter and she gets,
you know, the guy is able to make a sort of bust of her daughter's likeness and everything. And then
she realizes that that's all she was really living for was the search for her daughter and when,
you know, when she sort of discovers when the, when the mystery is resolved, she couldn't
let anything else to live for. It's really sad. I thought that, you know, really, really sad. And I

(01:01:56):
thought, McMannus is brilliant in that scene where he finds her sitting next to her dressing table
when he reads the note and he's, you know, he's, it's a really, he's really emotional and you don't,
we don't really see him emotional. We see him angry and we see him satastic and, you know,
we see him in a bit with a twinkle in his eye. But there's not many episodes of Tiger where you see

(01:02:17):
that kind of vulnerability and he's with his tears in his eyes, like McMannus is going for it in
that scene, you know, and it is, and it kind of brings it all home a lot more, you know. No,
it's a beautiful scene and it is heartbreaking when he discovers her and, yeah, it leads the note
and you just think, oh, shit. And that's why I think he takes it out on Colin so much as well

(01:02:39):
in terms of the emotion of what's happened to, to be ranny. So, yeah, very good. Because I
always thought like that last moment in killer, I know obviously when they made killer, they didn't know
that Tiger was going to become Taggart. They thought they were just making a, a kind of TV film,
but when they catch the guy in Taggart., like flips out and attacks him and he's river and

(01:03:01):
he has to get pulled off him and the sort of last shot is him sort of breathing deep,
they looking wide eyed and everything. I always thought it seemed a bit out of
counter with the rest of his performance in killer, you know, they could just suddenly go mental at this
murderer. But with less, maybe it's just the right and spare in this of I-PERS or, you know,

(01:03:23):
McManus is more comfortable with the character of Taggart. by that point and you're doing it for
like seven, eight years by then. You know, when you do see that unusually different side to his
character that we don't really see other times, it feels a lot more genuine than what
them, when he kind of cracks up at the end of killer and then when he, because he essentially does
almost the same thing again at the end of this one when he turns and gives a call in the back hander,

(01:03:47):
you know, he loses control, but you only lose his control for a second just long enough to
knock the guy down and sort of walk away from it. It's really, really good performance,
something like that. As well, what they do so well in Taggart. and they always did and they do
it great in killer and say they did it great in this episode is the number of red herrings that
we put in. You know, watching it, you never quite sure because you're like, well, is it the guy's

(01:04:10):
assistant? Because he's quite dodgy. Yeah. And then what's the head hunter got? She's got something to
do with it, sure. And I did love that scene where Dr. Nielsen, you're going in for this important
meeting to meet a head hunter in this hotel and she says, would you like a drink? He says, I'll have a pint of heavy.
And, that's not fair enough.

(01:04:32):
Not careself, I didn't like it. Fair play. Yeah, you have obviously all this stuff going on in
casco and you know, was, was, is the wife involved somehow and then, you know, there's other red herrings,
but yeah, it's, then you kind of think, okay, it's bound to be calling, but then there's the other
snake guy as well. Yeah. He's fucking dodgy and he's got a scar on his face, so it must be something

(01:04:54):
there as well, but yeah, it's, it's kind of beautifully done that they always did that in Tiger,
that's just so many red herrings that keep you guessing. So when it comes to the big reveal, you are like,
ah, yeah, and that's something they did effectively. What, what, what I think the great
is, every is, you know, Taggart., I guess, is a sort of, it's a kind of formulae show, but as much as

(01:05:16):
they, they often have quite gruesome murders and, you know, some of the sort of, this is, I guess,
is quite a sort of high concept, episodes or series of episodes of it. It always feels like
they're having a bit of fun as well with, with the audience. It's sort of almost like, it's sort of like
they can ageth a crystal formula, you know, with a sort of company of characters, you know, one or two

(01:05:39):
of them get killed off, you know, there's different reasons to suspect the other ones in part of the
fun as a viewer is, shall I work it out? You know what I mean? It's, and then, you know, and, and if you do
work it out and you're the only one, the feeling of gratification, when, when the reveal comes out,
I mean how many people have turned to their husband, their wife or whatever it's said, I told you it was him,

(01:06:04):
I'm fucking, told you it was happening episode two, I knew it, I knew it.
And then, all the while Glen Shandler must have been sitting at his typewriter or his computer
thinking, right, was the most creative way I can kill somebody off of the episode, you know?
I have a couple of questions though about the murders and the, the kind of, well, the skulls as well,

(01:06:27):
because they find these two skulls and the, the teeth and lower jaw been removed, yeah. And just
still happens, they've also found these Roman skulls and this professor is recreating the faces of
these, but the two skulls get stolen from the university, obviously it's Colin, it steals them,
but he's stolen the wrong skulls. But if he's committed the murders, because the Roman skulls had

(01:06:49):
the jaws intact, yeah, so he was fucked up, which he would surely know when he got the skulls that
are fuckets the wrong skulls. I mean, obviously he realizes because he leaves them in a bin,
yeah, but surely he would have checked that before, but I guess he just grabbed the box that sends
back light police on it because as the kind of doctor's assistant says, he must have put the skulls
in the wrong box, but surely he would just double check before you've taken, well, he would think so,

(01:07:14):
but you know, heat of the moments might only have a small window of opportunity to make goodies
escape, don't know. The other thing I have, okay, I can understand, he's like, right, I fucked it with
the skulls, okay, I'll have to kill this professor so he doesn't reconstruct the face of the victims.
Fine, so does that in a wonderful way by sending him a spider in a box. And that's particularly

(01:07:36):
quite gruesome, as soon as he thinks he's next to his finger on a staple, you're like, oh really?
Surely you've seen this spider, but maybe not, you know, you know, you know, someone's coming,
but why does he then bump off like Douglas and Christine? Because he seemed to be mates,
he was mates with Douglas, like Dr. Nielsen, he was, you know, pally with him, Christine seemed to

(01:07:56):
think he was okay, okay, she didn't want to go back to his for his famous spaghetti bolognese, but
I can understand I wasn't the professor of dead, but was he just trying to get rid of anyone linked
with casco? Because, but the police already knew that he worked at casco, so I don't quite
understand his motives for trying to get rid of all those people. I thought, I mean, I sort of took it
as that he'd just gone a bit loopy and he just wanted to, I'm making, you just wait till kill people,

(01:08:19):
you know, like, with the scene at the end, we're really meets the young artist at the zoo, and she
she comes back for the old famous, well, times like the Poison Spag Bol, you know what I mean,
he's just, just wants to kill it, she's, she's done nothing to him at all, we just want to kill her,
true, yeah, good point actually, yeah, that must be it, I just wondered what the

(01:08:40):
the kind of the motive was for that, because surely if he just laid low it would have been fine,
but as it turns out, yeah, it was, yeah, maybe he just had gone a little bit to your point there,
he hadn't killed anybody else apart from the two, the girl from New Zealand and Annie's daughter,
he might not have got found out anyway, do you know what I mean? Yeah, potentially not,

(01:09:03):
I don't know, but then if they'd identified the girl from New Zealand,
he'd be very humane, yeah, if the police had spoken to Dennis about it then, you know, when he
wins a sheriff's badge, then they would have made the link there, but then I guess they couldn't,
you know, how they actually prove it, but as it turns out, they didn't have to prove it because they
found Colin with Madeline in the cellar, so it's, yeah, he's kind of done in. So here's the question for you.

(01:09:30):
What is that other researchers fucking prob, them with Derek? He's just making cups of tea,
you know what I mean, for people, and what's his fucking nation? Yeah, Dennis,
yeah, he's just a knob, obviously, he's just that absolute knob, and seems to, I think probably not
like Dennis, because Dennis has maybe, you know, got some learning difficulties and he just seems to,
he's just bullying him, he's been a fucking dick, you know, but I'm poor lad, I know, I'm talking,

(01:09:54):
but everyone else is obviously nice to him, because Dennis says that Dr. Nielsen used to let him in
to, you know, look at snakes and stuff, so if one else obviously treats him well, but yeah,
that guy's a total prick, yeah, I think if I was Dennis, I'd be spilling a fucking cup of tea at
the end of his boson. It's this guy. I'm sure he gets a cup of tea at least spatt in on a regular
basis anyways. I'm sure it's all fine, he gets away with that there. Have you ever seen a guy die of

(01:10:18):
a heart attack after being bitten by a harmless gopher? No, that's, what a great line. What a wonderful
line. I think that's obviously to explain in terms of why Dr. Nielsen had died so quickly, because he,
I mean, I've been bitten four or five times, but did he explain that he died of a heart attack,
obviously, because I would think you would get quite a shock if you'd come in a bit,

(01:10:40):
and then it bit you like five times, that's going to be a bit of a shocker. Have you ever been bitten by
a creature? Probably, I mean, I've been bitten by a spider, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure I have,
yeah, I'm sure. Nothing like a radioactive spider or anything, or, no, but you probably just
seem like, oh, must be a little spider bite. No, I don't think so. I've got really been bitten by anything.

(01:11:04):
I've got a scar on my finger where I was bitten by a dog as a baby in my pram. Like, I've been
not quite a baby, but like a sort of little toy of her type, and I got bitten by a horse once,
that was trying to give it a sugar cube off the palm of my hands, but I didn't make my hand flat
enough, and so it then bite me on purpose. It was an accidental bite, yeah, but yeah. Accidental,

(01:11:25):
brushing of teeth against your right skin. No, no, it broke the skin. It broke the skin.
I was absolutely up to high-dose. Oh, okay, yeah. I mean, that was sore. Fair enough. Fair enough.
I'll see. So there's a few actors in this that classic Doctor Who fans would be very excited about.

(01:11:45):
We had a classic Doctor Who fan co-hosting on the podcast with us, so they get the guy who plays
a professor, Hutton, the aforementioned, the guy who was dispatched by the spider bite. He played
a character in the very, very first ever Doctor Who program back in 1963. The guy that was given
Dennis Pelters, it's also in Doctor Who, in a couple of times, and also the boss of the chemical

(01:12:09):
company whose name I've completely forgotten. He's also been in Doctor Who a couple of times as well.
So there you go. And I mean, that's classic Doctor Who, but then you have Michelle Goe?
Yeah, it's as well. Well, that's right. I'm a new Doctor Who. Yeah. I'm sure Casco is
being in Doctor Who as well at some point. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she must have been.
Yeah, well, that died. Yeah. Yeah, quite a few familiar faces in this as well, just in general,

(01:12:32):
because obviously Michelle Gomez means, and then the wonderful Simone LeBeab as well pops up.
Fence spotter. One of her first gigs. You didn't spot Simone LeBeab? No, we spoke about this last
week. I couldn't fence spotter. I thought she might have been the second. Oh, the chemical company. Yeah,
right. Yeah. It does it. It's, yeah, I had to rewind it and double check and I'm like, wow,
I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a very young, um, so on, but yes, it doesn't look like a,

(01:12:57):
but you really focus it does. You can see the sort of look there. So yeah,
we're 80s early 90s, like knockout. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Um, so yeah, it was good to see.
And you know, it's a tiger as we just explained earlier, you know, there's always people popping up,
in every episode in terms of random, random roles. It was lovely to see Robert Robertson

(01:13:20):
as Dr. Anders. Yeah. You know, but I'll miss him. He's just great quality and he just fits in
with the kind of course, three, I think, can definitely in terms of, um, of that and it's he's,
yeah, he's a wonderful, uh, part of the cast. And then of course, uh, Ian Anders is, uh, the biscuit,
as well, always good quality. No, they're not in it for much, but it's always great to see them.

(01:13:42):
It's wonderful. It's just the fact that the fact that Chandler's gone to the trouble of putting that
nickname in just shows how well it, how well he knows his subject matter because it's like in the first
episode with a mint, you know, they, the, the detective sheep inspector Murray, they call him the mint,
you know, and then Ian Andersen is making Vity and that would do that exactly what would,

(01:14:04):
what would happen, I think, in, yeah, in a Scottish workplace, whether it's the police or
anyone else, you know, of course. Yeah. It has to be the, yeah, to link to, well, that was,
I've told that story. I haven't told it on the swallow before. I have mentioned that, like,
we had a janitor or school that looked like Taggart.. Oh, right. Yeah. So we called him Taggart. But,
yeah, I'll tell you, the other, it was on an episode of Off the Ball one day and they asked if anyone

(01:14:28):
had nicknames for their janitors and somebody phoned in and said that the janitor at their school was
five foot two, so they called him Janny DeVito. Absolutely wonderful. If you were talking to a police
officer and you know, a party and stuff, would you be describing the perfect murder to them? Like,

(01:14:52):
you know, obviously, kind of linked to an investigation because they've been sea calling, so they're linked,
they have linked it there and he's at this party. You're not going to be chatting up,
blize, duff, Jackie Reed and saying, oh, I know how to commit the perfect murder. You inject
cobra venom at somebody's belly button. Yeah, like, wait a minute. I think you know, come on. How stupid are you?

(01:15:12):
Tell the perfect mug, though, okay? Yeah, we're swimming. You might come across a wind,
who knows? Tell me. I'm intrigued. Well, what you do is, you take a hike with them with
full of cobra venom and you inject in as someone's belly button. Apparently cobra venom is
impossible to take. It looks like they're looking for it and I'm asked, please, they're going to

(01:15:34):
find the punching mug is in the belly button. So how do you get your victim to lie still?
Hell, you do it? I will. That's a difficult part. So, would you lay on this? Dr. Hilson. I walked
to caskers for two years. I think that a lot of things. I think about taking home.

(01:15:56):
Do you ever get the feeling that people are too ready to jump to us? Only too well. By the way,
I do a great spag ball. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. I thought the realism, though, of Douglas,
coming home, pushed and getting on dress, just climbing in the bed was very accurately done.
You've all been there. We've all done that type of thing. Yeah, at least he's sort of

(01:16:19):
keen to crack on and try to get, should I get Colin and Christy and then keep the party going?
Yeah. Yeah. He's wanting to have a nightcar and get, yeah, keep going, but yeah, obviously,
they're not interested. There we are. Asher something about Nilson, right? His wife is a fucking
nightmare. You know, if I was mad at somebody like that and I got offered a great job in the

(01:16:40):
repuling shed, I'd have to come. I think I would be like, okay, then, see you later. Yeah.
'Cause obviously he knows she's having an affair and stuff for her respects. Yeah.
I kind of doesn't want to admit it. Yeah. As he speaks to Colin, it's kind of like he knows,
but he doesn't want to admit it to himself. But you're right, she's an absolute cow.
And she's obviously always going out to meet clients, but obviously she's shagging his boss.

(01:17:05):
Yeah. Yeah, I'd be the same. I've got a fuck that. I'm away at Liverpool. I'm away at
going to a pint of heavy with that headhunter and see if she's wanting to, um, we don't
love our pool and have a nice weekend. If she's got to let me take her up the mirrors. I'm a fucks
sick. Yeah. That's just, it's weird. And then you know, she's like, oh, yeah, I can't go out tonight.

(01:17:28):
I'm doing my, I've got to do my clients accounts. You know, like at nine o'clock in the evening.
What the fuck is me doing all day? So we have, um, the first two people,
and well, three, um, you got Christine, Dr. Nielsen and of course the, the, the professor,
and then the artist. I'll die. Um, well, the first three had all died because of spider or snake

(01:17:56):
bite. Mm-hmm. And they've obviously, with every one, they've rushed to get them the antivenom,
but as them, as them worked and it's tagger that works out, the somebody's switched around the
antivenoms, because they're obviously all linked to each individual, yeah, spider or snake type of
poison. Somebody's been playing silly buggers and fucking them around, which has then have, like,
effectively been giving the people, the victims, like an allergic reaction and they've died as a result.

(01:18:20):
Yeah. And I did think when the, um, the artist, um, I can't remember the character's name, so I don't know
the, when he is in a hospital, he's been given antivenom and then the doctor is kind of attending to him.
And the machine starts beeping and then just flatlines and the doctor is like, oh, well, he's fucked.
You know, he doesn't make any attempt to resuscitate and we just literally takes off his oxygen mask and

(01:18:41):
he's like, oh, well, no, I'm mind. Yeah. Right. Nurse, you changed sheets.
Get rid of his body. Just no effort at all. It doesn't like rush or call anyone in, but I did find
that a little bit jarring. Yeah, I suspect the actor playing an adult was probably in a dairy.
He would not be the invader. He probably, he probably had a shift at the tunnel that night to get to after filming.

(01:19:03):
Fuckin' hell. These days are killing me, fucking 10 hours on tiger and then eight hours in the tunnel.
Well, what, what I was gonna ask you about in, you know, in a nice way, Jackie Reed.
Something, there's still bit, there's, I'm not, I'm not gonna be crude here, right? But there's something
about the light off the ache, the way that she sort of just has got this sort of elven look to her, you know what I mean?

(01:19:27):
And I was watching because so tiger famously is the longest, or was the longest running police drama in the UK
alongside one other program that I know you're also a fan of. What, the bill? Exactly. So, there's an actress on that
Taggart. documentary. She used to be any stenders before she'd been a bill, a current member, her name.

(01:19:48):
She's any stenders for years, then, then, the mid-90s, then she went to the bill after that. And she's
talking about, I think I know, yeah, for you mean older woman short dark hair. Exactly. She plays like a
sort of senior officer in the bill. Yeah, it's like Roberta something. I know exactly who you mean.
Yeah. So she was talking about the light off, as she was saying, you know, she's got a, she's got a sort of,

(01:20:10):
in, there's a kind of intensity about her, but she can, she says, you know, like for me, she says,
my, for the way I act, I'm either shouting, or I'm quiet, or, you know, or I'm pissed, or I'm sober,
or whatever, she said, but there's something about the way that the light off plays Jackie Reed.
Because she's working with these two male characters, one of which in tiger, like quite an alpha,

(01:20:32):
old-fashioned guy, you know, jar deans a bit more, I guess, a bit more sensitive and things.
But she really manages them. You know what I mean? And she's not even phased by, you know,
tiger, losing these patients, or, or being a bit short with the rest of them or whatever, but she's
got a really, a vocative range of expressions, you know, in which we're, she'll kind of roll their eyes,

(01:20:55):
or, you know, when she's talking to Colin at the party, you sort of get the impression that she's
maybe, for a moment, maybe before he starts talking about committing the perfect murder,
this really thank you for a moment. It's actually quite a good looking guy, this Colin, and, you know,
a bit, also, to say anything, but it's just a very, there's a real subtlety about her, you know, and she's,

(01:21:16):
she's really, she's great, and I, I sort of regret a little bit, not really watching tiger that much
after James McPherson came out of it. I don't really watch it much with Alex Norton, and Jon McKey,
and, you know, and I wonder how she made a film about that because, you know, you can see
McPherson sort of becomes, I guess, the kind of star of the show after Mark McMahon has died,

(01:21:38):
and it kind of feels fair enough, you know, there's sort of hierarchy there, but then you sort of,
like, famously, the, the, the, the, the, the Kiljardine's character off, like, much later. And, you know,
this, think, well, maybe there's an opportunity there for, uh, DI reads to become the central character,
but yeah, they, they bring in Jon McKey, and they bring in, uh, Alex Norton, uh, and it's, you know,
I wonder if she thought, well, it's a bit shit, you know, of still, so, maybe, plain second fiddle to, a guy, you know?

(01:22:04):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, sexism and the police force, yeah, but that was, well, when she was not at,
you know, back in 2008, you know, you think you would have got a little bit more. Yeah, that's a very
good point because she had been around the longest, but I don't know. But yeah, I agree, I'm
blighted off, yeah, performance is, it's beautifully kind of, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I was like,
understated, but it's, as you say, she's got a quiet, kind of tone about her, but facial expressions,

(01:22:26):
and she's got some great bits as you see the party with Colin. I think a great bit she has is
when she's at the hotel and she's knocking on the wife's door and then it takes the, do you not
disturb Saiyan when the chambermaze, I'm just waiting for somebody and then just barges in.
You know, that's a great scene. Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's almost comedic in terms of the

(01:22:47):
acting, so it does show the range that she's got there, but yeah, she's a, a really good performance,
I think, from, like, stuff. I just, I just think she's got, she's got a really kind of unique look
about her as well. I can't really think of anybody that she looks like, you know? No.
So I think we spoke about this when we said killer. So occasionally you'll read on a website or

(01:23:07):
in the paper or something that they're trying to do a sort of young tiger drama show.
It kind of comes in goes where they, I guess it would be set in the, maybe the 50s,
in the, maybe the 50s and 60s in Glasgow, and show the character a tiger, sort of, I guess,
working his way up through the ranks of the police to detective. In the right hands,

(01:23:28):
that could be absolutely fucking brilliant, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, no, I agree, I agree. I mean,
obviously if it's like 1950s and I'm kind of out, but because I don't like anything
pre that time, but if you could say it in the 60s or something, then yeah, I'll watch that, yeah,
so even for a tiger, you wouldn't, no, I would watch something with a young tiger in it. Yeah,

(01:23:54):
of course I would definitely, I think that would be a great show actually. So what are you thinking?
Who's good at playing? Well, this is what I was going to ask you, you know, so a dream cast list.
So say the characters are going to be tiger, I guess. You might have, maybe, Jardine's
dad, maybe, you know, I think they're supposed to have been colleagues together at some point.

(01:24:16):
Maybe you'd have like the young, the mint, maybe, is well or or McVity or both perhaps.
They're Taggart stands and maybe he's got like a brother who's a bit, who sort of tries to lead the
mystery and, you know, a tiger sort of torn between a loyalty of looking out for his brother,
but also being a good policeman. Then you could have like sort of, you know,
a big Glasgow at the time, sort of razor gangs and, you know, the sort of Bible genre and stuff,

(01:24:40):
dance halls, the barrelands and things, be fucking brilliant in the right hands. But then,
so how old would Taggart be? So say, let's say in Killer, which is a contemporary at the time,
so 1983, so say, Taggart and he's going to wait for ease then say, sort of knocking on 50 in 1983.

(01:25:01):
So that would mean that he would have been born in the 30s. So I guess if you're going to show him
as a young man, it would have to be the kind of 1950s and he's sort of early 20s, I suppose, to begin with,
you know, so early 20s, we're looking at, like in terms of, you see, and that's a bit of our real
houses, isn't it really? Because in terms of Scottish actors, we're looking at people that are maybe

(01:25:22):
a little bit older, mostly on the show. - Oh, you got me with the... - Jack Loudon might play a character
in it, but maybe not as tiger, but he's a good young actor, but he's in his early 30s, but he looks
sort of young, so, you know, he could play younger, I'm sure, they've a bit younger. Who else?
- I mean, I feel... - I'm Guthrie. Kevin...

(01:25:43):
Guthrie could be the knowns that gets arrested and fussed... - Yeah.
Beat into death and the barrel in the first episode, the first season.
But you might maybe, you could put Martin Compston in there, I'm not sure who would play, maybe he would
play a bit less. - Yeah. - What, I was slightly more senior office, or perhaps.

(01:26:04):
You know, he would have to... - I mean, he could... you know something, he...
Well, he passes Jordan's dad. I don't know. That's gonna be maybe...
somebody with a bit of a bit of a bit more fear here, right?
What about Lewis Gribben for... - Yeah. Yeah, yeah. - Jordan's dad, yeah.
- Maybe Goods, maybe. - He's a bit... - He's a blondeer, bit taller.

(01:26:25):
Yeah, I'll take him as Jordan's dad. Taggart I don't know, though.
Maybe it's an unknown thing kind of popped out of drama school or something, maybe.
Because, you know, if you're gonna cast somebody as a kind of iconic character,
it's difficult if that person has got like a bit of a resume of characters under the bell.
- Do you know what I mean? - Yeah. - And they're always...

(01:26:46):
They're always gonna be compared. And you kind of feel like they're doing an impression of
Mark McManus, perhaps, whereas if it's like an unknown actor, that's maybe better.
- Fuck yeah. - I mean, that's why... why are STV and ITV not fucking beating a path to our doors?
- Ideas that have on this whole cast. - Yeah, but it's an expensive production

(01:27:07):
terms of if you're making a period piece of something like that, you know?
That's gonna cost a lot of money, whereas if you set something in Glasgow now,
it's gonna be a lot cheaper, cheaper. But yeah, I just read you, Taggart, then.
That would be the ideal thing, you know? Give it to Mark Bonnar, as Taggart.
There you go. Take it away. -Rab Afleck as Jordan.

(01:27:29):
- Grab Aphleck. - Yeah, grab Aphleck. Checking the past the ways, you know, grab Aphleck.
- Just a joke. - Cosmo is the biscuit and you're sorted away you go.
- Yeah. - Just can't an all sort of cast.
- I think Guthrie can still play the nonts.
Yeah. Might hurt his appeal, being an nonts, though.

(01:27:50):
- Yeah, possibly. - Yeah, that's possibly true, yeah.
Okay then, so shall we put Nest of Vipers through our Swally Awards?
- Yes, let's do it. What have we got first on the awards this week, Greg?
- Well, that's always the Bobby the Barman award for the best pub.
- Well, there's only the pub that they go into, really, isn't there?
They're in that a couple of times. It's the same pub, isn't it?

(01:28:11):
- You've got the engagement party as well.
- Yeah. - But yeah, yeah, the pub they're in, yeah, definitely.
- Well, let's go in that. - They're not in the Rennfru Ferry for the party
that Colin goes to where he's this right, Professor Murder.
- That's true, yeah. - The Rennfru Ferry was not a very nice venue, so, yeah.
I mean, for me, it's definitely the Bar, the Canyptee Spaar that they go to all the time.

(01:28:32):
- Yeah, yeah, definitely. - Next one then, James Cosmo award
for being an Everton Scottish. - Who did you go for for this?
- I went with Cadsol. - Yeah, definitely.
- She's in, she's in everything. - She's in tons of stuff and she's in,
- untill the minute of things. - Yeah, she's in absolutely loads.
She's quite high up in the Swally Tally, I think.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, but as well, but yeah, she just pops up in absolutely everything.

(01:28:55):
So yeah, it's, well, that ad-out, it's her, yeah.
- The next one then, the Jake McQuillan your T-Zoot award.
- I mean, it's Taggart, smackin' Colin at the end. - Taggart with the backhander.
- Catshen, yeah. - Catshen and the cheek with these Masonic Ring.
- Yeah. - That's definitely, because there's not really much,
I mean, okay, a lot of people die, but it's all the hands of snakes and spiders.

(01:29:17):
There's not really much violence in this. - No.
- Next one then, the Yuen McGregor Award for Gritutus nudity.
- I did it, there was nothing, was there? I mean, you don't see anything
when Nielsen's getting into his bed. - Just his hairy back.
- Sure. - Yeah.
- Yeah, I've done without seeing, to be quite honest.
Moving swiftly on, so you know, it's Taggart in the 90s,

(01:29:37):
ITV prime time, not a great either of Eiffon and Jeffon, but the Francis Bigby Award for Gritutus
Sweating. - The only one I really caught is when Douglas's wife shouts to Derek. She shouts
you bastard. - Yeah.
- And that's, that's it. - Oh, is it? I didn't notice anything else in terms of swearing.
- It's a different time. It should be, it should be, if it was made now,

(01:29:59):
it should be screaming all the cuts under the sun, and it was each other way, but,
yeah, it was a much more gentle time back in the early 90s.
So I'm interested to know what you went for a year, because I, in other honesty,
I struggled with this one, the archetypal Scottish moment. You struggled as a fucking
burn supper. - Oh, fuck, yeah. - And of course, yeah.
- You struggled like, there's two burn suppers, technically, because James having one at the house with

(01:30:22):
the disabled piper, and then there's a massive one, and then address the haggis and rabbit burns,
like, really? - Yes, it's a pork.
- Yes, it's a pork? - Yeah, actually, and in retrospect,
retrospect, Robbie Robertson just drinking drums for the full meal,
I think, not even a couple of beers to wear his whistle or a glass of wine, just straight on the drums.

(01:30:44):
- No ice, no water. - Yeah.
- It's either that, or during a pint of heavy, when you go for a job interview.
- Well, it could be, it could be his prescription when a professor Hutton says,
not feeling very well, of just having a couple of drums, something quite Scottish,
but that is not, I don't know if you're very well. - Okay, a couple of nippy sweeties,
then you know, that was sort of you, right? - Okay, then the last one, then the big time award,

(01:31:08):
who won it for you? - I mean, I went with Mark McManus, just purely, because it's
Taggart. - It's not in a huge amount, really? - No, it's not.
- It does focus on others, but it has to be, in a Mark McManus, I mean,
yeah, what did you go for? - Well, I was going to go with
Dougley Scott, because I thought, I thought, considering that it's an early gig for him and everything else,

(01:31:31):
I thought it was really good, he was really fucking creepy, especially in the last, sort of,
15, 10 minutes or so of the show when he's got the artist back at his house, and he's rubbing the
frog poison on the spoons and stuff. I thought it was really good, but I had to go to McManus,
if, if we know other reason, then the scene that I was talking about earlier,
where he finds Annie's body, and the side note, I just thought he's absolutely phenomenal,

(01:31:57):
so I give it to him as well. - Yeah, fair enough. No, yeah, you're right,
I agree with you on that, and you're right. Dougley Scott does deliver a really good performance,
and he is, you're right, actually, the range of emotions he kind of goes through,
throughout the show, because he's quite cagey when he's speaking to the police, but then
friendly, and then he's obviously really friendly when he's speaking to Dr. Nielsen,

(01:32:19):
and then, of course, at the end, he is just fucking Uber creepy, so you're right.
The part is quite sociable when he's flirting with Jackie, trying to tell her the best way to
commit a murder, but yeah, you're right, McManus, for that scene, I would say it has to be. - Definitely.
- I did kind of feel with the character of Colin, so when you think when this was first broadcast,

(01:32:39):
silence of the lamp said just one fucking Oscar is never done in a really successful movie,
and you've got two sort of prolific serial killers in it, you've got handleettes or you've got Buffle Bill,
and it felt a wee bit like Chandler might have been thinking a little bit about, you know,
with the character of Colin. If not for any other reason, then the last few scenes that he has

(01:33:01):
before the police coming arrest him. You know, was he maybe thinking, well, make the
killer in this one a wee bit more original when it landish, and it's not, it's difficult to know
really what he wants, you know, because like, with Buffle Bill, he wants to make a lady suit, but with
with Hannibal Ecter, it's not, he doesn't really want anything, he just wants to fucking, he wants to

(01:33:23):
sort of psychologically dismantle and then murder people when they need to be a bit of them.
You know, and obviously you can never really put a character like that in a show like Tiger because
it sort of, it's power is in that it's a bit closer to real life. - Yeah, of course. - Of course.
The strammer. But just, you know, with the character of Colin, there's a serial killer and things,
and it's not, you know, really clear wise doing what he's doing. It's, you know, it's just got a

(01:33:47):
screwless or whatever, and there's this big house and he's got all these weird and wonderful exotic
creatures and stuff. I thought maybe there was a wee bit of, uh, influence, the other perhaps.
- Yeah, I think so. You could be right, because you don't really get to the motive in terms of what
is driving Colin to do this, and let's just say when he is in the house, you know, when Madeline

(01:34:07):
says to him, "Do you live in this big house yourself?" And you say, "Yeah, belong to my parents." There is a
bit of a, yeah, and clearly there, I wonder what his actual motive is, but yeah, it's just a bit of a
screwless, I guess. - Do you, um, do you want to come back with me? - You don't mind
another good straight home. - I cook a really good spaghetti bowl, it is. - Aftercation,

(01:34:28):
pizza. Stamming must be lead line. - Just for a neat cap then. - I've got to let the dog out.
- Okay. - Well, that was Nest of Vipers by Taggart, and I think, um, yeah, it's a second appearance for Taggart
on the podcast, and I don't know if it'll, I don't think it'll be the last, I'm pretty sure, well,

(01:34:50):
maybe a later one with Alex Norton at some point, just to, to see how things progress. I've got one
in mind already. - Okay, if it's thanks. - Fantastic. Okay, wonderful. Okay, so that was my choice
on the podcast, Greg. - What are we going to be looking at on the next episode of The Culture Swally?
- Well, I'm, I'm going for something really, really selfish, and perhaps, and perhaps a wee bit timely,

(01:35:15):
as well. You mentioned that before we started recording, but, um, we covered the first series of
Irvine Walsh's "Crime". I think it was last, last year, or earlier this year, look at, I could
few episodes ago, the new series is out, now it's available on the STVI player. I'm desperate to see it,
I know you've watched an episode already, so just because I'm so desperate to see it, and we're

(01:35:39):
making it, we make, we make it some downloads as well, because it's contemporary, and people are
talking about it. I want to do a series to Irvine Welsh's "Crime". - Fantastic, yeah. I watched the first
episode last night, and I have to say I am looking forward to this evening to watch episode two, because,
yeah, it did not disappoint, and, yeah, I'm under-traumat, oh. Yeah, so, yeah, oh, fantastic. I'll look

(01:36:03):
forward to watching the rest of that, and then discussing with you next time on The Culture Swally.
Right, well, thank you very much for listening everyone. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you would like
to get in touch with us about anything that you've seen in the news, or anything you'd like us to
cover, you can drop us an email on cultureswally@gmail.com, and you can follow us on the socials as well,

(01:36:24):
get in touch with us there, on anything you'd like to get in touch with us about, or just to say hello,
you can follow us on Insta @CultureSwallyPod, or you can follow us on X @SwallyPod. And Greg, we have a
wonderful website as well, don't we? - You can meet, you can find us cultureswally.com, where you can
read the books, interested things about Scottish media, you can get in touch with us to the socials,

(01:36:48):
if you're sitting there thinking what your dream cast might be for a, a, a, a young,
tagger series then, send us your suggestions, and if they like them, maybe we'll mention them.
In the next episode, what a future episode, even. - Wonderful. All right, fantastic. Well,
I'm gonna go off and watch a bit of crime series, too, then, and I'll speak to you about it on the next

(01:37:09):
episode. Swally, Greg. Until next time. - Until next time. - You wanted me, so?
- I want the boat to get. I'm sending you to a party. - A party, sir?
There's a knees up at cascos tonight for the entire research department, an engagement or something.
I want you to go there, keep your ears and your eyes open. Safe, there's any connection with anyone
there and Janet Gillil. - But they know who we are, sir. So, people get drunk at parties. They talk,

(01:37:35):
you let them talk.
[Music]

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Episode 84 - Taggart - Nest of Vipers (1992)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 84 - Taggart - Nest of Vipers (1992)