Lockdown Chrysalis: transforming with Araz Ahmed

This week on We, The City Blue catches up with Araz Ahmed, a poet, musician and community worker. A Canadian native now living in Sydney, Araz shares some of their brand new music, and reflects on gentle masculinity, discovering their new voice, and how complicated dads can be. You can hear more of Araz music at https://soundcloud.com/araz-ahmed-539721773

Access the transcript here

We, The City is a Jerboa production hosted by Blue Lucine. The City of Sydney is our principal partner and we thank the creative grants program. This episode was produced by Blue Lucine and Tegan Nicholls with original music by Matt Cornell. We, The City is recorded on Gadigal land. Sovereignty was never ceded.

Live music recording by Josh Dowton

https://wethecity.podbean.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
We The City is recorded on Gadigal land.
I pay my respects to the traditionalcustodians, the elders past, present,
and emerging.
Art. Activism. Identity.

(00:25):
Diving deep with one artist a week,
we meet the individuals who use theirart to trigger change in the City of
Sydney. Who are theyand what's their story?
Stick around to find out on We The City.

(00:46):
Hi, I'm Blue Lucine and today on We,
The City I speak with Araz Ahmed, a poet,
musician and community worker.
Araz shares with me some of their newmusic and reflects on gentle masculinity,
discovering their new voice andhow complicated dads are here's

(01:06):
Araz.
So Araz, thank you so much forjoining me today on We, The City.
Thanks for having me.
Um,
so I wanted to just first start talk toyou about when did your love of music
begin? How did that get started?
Great question.
When I think back to my first albumsthat I ever bought for myself,

(01:30):
um, were "Jagged Little Pill"and the "Space Jam" soundtrack,
which I feel very accuratelyrepresent the side of my personality,
um, and which probably representssome of my musical influences. Um.
And how old would you have been whenyou purchased those two? ?
I was about seven or eight years old.

(01:54):
Me and my dad listened to, weliked a lot of the same music, um,
particularly sort of, uh, Americana,like folk music and stuff like that.
Um, we listened to a lotof singer songwriters. Um,
so that sort of tradition, Iguess, of songwriting and, um,
single voices that were somewhatguitar driven, I guess, um,

(02:17):
were often playing when I wasyounger. And I think that, um,
probably soaked intomy consciousness of it.
And then I started playing guitar whenI was about 10 years old or something.
So it was definitely, yeah,
I would say that I'm my musicalpassion kind of came from that
young exposure to songwritersmm-hmm yeah.

(02:39):
10 Years old. That's quite young.Um, were you given a guitar?
Did you borrow a guitar?Did you just steal a guitar?
I, I just, uh, I think it was,
it must have been my birthday orChristmas or something like that. And, um,
when my parents asked me what I wanted,
I said that I wanted a guitar andI remember there being a little

(03:00):
bit of a discussion about how, um,
I think I said electric guitar and Ithink they said definitely not
Um, so we compromised bygetting an acoustic guitar. Um,
so we went to this music shopcalled Walter's music, which was,
um, in the basement of the square oneshopping centre in Mississauga, Ontario,

(03:23):
Canada, where close towhere I grew up. Um,
and we went to the shop andwe tried a bunch of guitars.
And I remember again,I was with my dad. Um,
and I think there wasdefinitely some sort of,
some kind of gentle vibe around like alittle bit of living out your parents'
dream kind of thing. Likethere was that aura to it.

(03:44):
So I started out taking a few lessons,
but I was really terrible at guitarlessons. Like I just didn't like ,
I didn't like it. Um, I gotreally stressed out by it and to this day, I can't,
I don't know how to read sheet music. Um,
but I really loved like learning chordshapes and just being able to, um,
you know, go on the old dialupinternet, uh, with, you know,

(04:07):
AOL search engine or whatever, um,
and look up songs I knew that only hadthree chords or something and then just
go home and, um, and try toplay the songs. So, um, yeah,
that's kind of how I started, Iguess, by learning chord shapes,
memorizing those, and then, um,playing along with some songs I liked.
And then that pretty quickly becamewriting, um, songs with those similar,

(04:30):
like very simple chord, um,patterns. And that's like,
I would love to say that my playinghas become more elaborate or more
sophisticated, but it's not, that's,that's kind of, my, my jam really is, um,
simple regular structures. Yep.
So you mentioned your dad quite abit in that last little story. Uh,
can you tell me a littlebit more about your family?

(04:52):
Yeah, absolutely. It's funnyyou say that because I,
I was reflecting on that as I wassaying, and I was like, oh, interesting.
This is gonna be a dad podcast. of course it is. Um,
yeah, my family. Wow. So, um.
So you said you grew up in Canada?
Yeah, I grew up in Canada, um,

(05:12):
and I was born in England and so it wasmy sister and both of my parents, um,
were, uh, born and raisedin what's now Bangladesh.
Um, and then they moved to Londonwhen, when they were young and,
and had us et cetera, et cetera. Um,
like most people I'm sure my, you know,

(05:32):
my relationship to my family hasbeen a complex dynamic thing, um,
over the years. And, um, it waspretty, it's been pretty hard,
uh, at points. And I think, um,
some of that difficult stuff isprobably why I ended up in Australia,
um, 8, 8, 9, 9 years ago,I think. Um, yeah. Um,

(05:58):
and again, like a lot of people,
I think sometimes having thatdistance and having that time, um,
can make things a little biteasier. So, um, my, my dad died, uh,
about, I think about three years ago. Um,
but in the years before then,um, while I've been over here,
my relationship with him, my relationshipwith my mum and my sister, um,

(06:21):
definitely got it,
got a lot deeper and probably had moreunderstanding of, um, sort of human,
human complexity by having that spaceand that, that time of apart. So,
um, yeah, they're very much, um,
a part of my, my sort of new EP or,

(06:43):
or small, um, album thatI'm gonna be recording soon.
And right now it's loosely, it might,might not stay this title. So don't,
't quote me on it if it changesradically. But in my mind right now,
it's called, um, "All of our parentsin London, in the Seventies". Um,
and it's yeah, a short album that, uh,
really centers I think my relationshipswith my mum and my dad mm-hmm

(07:07):
yeah.
So what kind of drove you tomove to Australia from Canada?
Online Love
Online love drove me to Australia. Um,
I was, I was part of aextremely nerdy and earnest,

(07:29):
um, online forum for, uh,like poets and musicians.
Um, back God, I don't know,in the, how old was, say,
like early 2000s, I guess.Um, something like that.
So from the age of like 17, 18, 19,
I was just, um, obsessed with, um,

(07:51):
and in love with, uh, this personwho was, she was Australian. Um,
and we had this, you know, longdistance on again, off again,
kind of intellectuallove affair, really. Um,
it was highly esoteric as itwas as nineties, two thousands,
as it sounds, , you know, um,

(08:11):
tons of attachment stuff, zingingaround, I'm sure. Tons of unexamined, um,
identity stuff zinging around.Um, yeah, for whatever reason,
we just had this like huge chemistry.We were really drawn to each other. And,
um, finally after seven, literallyseven years of this past, you know,
we went by we're we're with other peoplewe're having other experiences. Um,

(08:34):
and we decided to finallymeet and then, um, you know,
the story,
the story of us being together was socompelling to me at that point that, um,
it almost felt like I didn't really,like, I didn't really have a choice.
I was like, oh, this relationshipis finally happening. I need to,
I need to go with this. You know, Ineed to go on this journey and see what,

(08:54):
what, um, what takes place.
So I came to Australia to give it areal shot mm-hmm um,
and when that relationshipbroke down after two years, um,
I had just put so much,
I had put so much energy intotrying to build this life here.
And I was also putting that space betweenmyself and my family at that time. So,

(09:14):
um,
I think the week that the relationshipdissolved was the same week that I got my
first, um, sort of proper managementconsulting contract .
So it was like this real, um, youknow, juxtaposition of things where,
um, for the first time in my life,
I could actually see a futureof not being a really broke,

(09:35):
starving artist. Um, and that wasso important to my mental health,
to like,
even though I had all these other convoshappening in my mind at that time of
like, am I selling out and blah,blah, blah, super corporate job. Um,
I knew that I needed to give myselfthe gift of making quite good
money, um, for a period of timeto just to get my bearings again.

(09:56):
So I took that contract and then, um,
yeah, and then the years went by and Iwas like, oh, I'm having a good time.
I'll wait and see what happens.I'll wait and see. And here I am,
nine years later.
Who could have guessed the better,
the best of us was traveling inyou farther away from the source
of truth. It was anywhere else, born,

(10:22):
wherever, anywhere else, but forever,
always out there.
And what kind of impact did movingto Sydney moving countries have on
your, your music?
Yeah. Great question. Um,
my whole relationship to my body changedso much when I moved to Sydney, um,

(10:43):
in, in all the ways likegrowing up in Canada,
um, at least with, for myselfand with my family, like,
I'd never really thoughtabout the impact of, um,
having to be indoors for sixmonths of the year, you know,
and what it's like to just, um,
not be able to go out in a t-shirtlike for again, you know, six,

(11:06):
seven months of the year or somethinglike that, like always having to, um,
cover up. And, um, when I camehere and I had this, you know,
incredible experience ofjust almost every single day,
I would wake up and I would, you know,say to the, to this, um, ex-partner um,
wow, what a beautiful day it is, youknow, and eventually she was like,
we get it. It's a really nice day. like, you can stop saying that now.

(11:29):
Um, but to me it was, it was quitea revelation, you know, of, um,
like just how beautiful the naturallandscape was and how you could be in,
um, I worked for a while, um,
for a few years at UNSW and I reallyfelt it so strongly when I was working
there that, um, you know,
I could be at work and then within30 minutes, not even after work,

(11:52):
I could be on the most beautifulbeach I've ever seen. Yeah. Um,
and on my lunch break I could walkaround and I could, um, you know,
find little pockets of likegreen verdant green. Um,
and it, yeah, it's really hard to,
to put it into words how much thatcan change a person until, you know,

(12:13):
if you haven't, if you haven't had that.And not that Canada isn't beautiful,
cause it really is beautiful, but it'sa different kind. Um, this is, you know,
just me thinking out loud. Um, I haven'treally thought this through before,
but sometimes I wonder whether,
I guess the degree to which, um, movingat here, being able to, you know,

(12:33):
feel the sun on my skin moreoften being able to just walk
everywhere, get more exercise outdoors,
whether that did also kind ofunblock something around me.
Um, being able to affirmmy transness, you know,
and whether there's some sort of acontinuum around getting more comfortable

(12:54):
with your body,
feeling your body become morepowerful because you use it more and
that unlocking some sort of years ofrepression of, of being trans. Yep.
That's a really beautiful idea.Um, the more kind of connected and,
and exposed that you got to nature,
the more kind of connected and exposedyou were to your true self. In a way.

(13:18):
Yeah. Absolutely. AndI'm sure that people in,
in cold climates can have the samething. Maybe I just don't have that.
I just didn't have thatrelationship to myself in the cold,
in the way that maybe someonewho snowboards or something that's, you know, um,
it wasn't really my authentic body space,
whereas I know some people whoabsolutely thrive in the winter ,
you know, and just love it.Um, yeah, but that wasn't me.

(13:41):
Um, did your sound changewhen you came to Sydney and,
and tell me a little bitabout, um, your music.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um,
did my sound change?
I mean, it's a very big question.
Yeah, no, no, totally. I feel likeright now I'm kind of having this like
wonderful Renaissance period for myselfwhere I actually feel like I'm starting

(14:05):
to sound more like I used to sound,um, when I was younger, younger. So,
um, my music has alwaysbeen kind of in that, uh,
sometimes I call it like alt country.Sometimes I call it experimental folk, um,
or garage folk. I think garagefolk is probably the most, um,
technically accurate. Uh, and when I,

(14:29):
so when I first started out,
when I was playing in coffee housesand things in high school, um,
I think I started performingwhen I was about 16 or 17. Um,
I was always playing on acoustic becausethat's what I had and I was playing
solo because that was just easier. Um,
but I really love playing with bands.
I really love playing likecollaboratively. Um, during my work life,

(14:52):
I often have to be like verycontrolling, like project managery.
And this is, it's really nice for me inmusic where I'm not like that at all.
Like to the point where sometimespeople are ask me, like,
can you just plan this out alittle bit more? I'm like, no, no,
I don't want to controleverything. Like I want,
I want whatever happensto happen somewhat. Um,
so then in maybe my earlier mid twenties,

(15:15):
I started to take music a bit moreseriously, and I started to play, um,
gigs and go around, uh, justlike small mini tours, um,
in Canada a bit more, um,
and a little bit in New Yorkand I loved it. It was awesome.
But I also got extremely, um,
burnt out and a bit jadedabout the kind of social media

(15:38):
engine that had to be tickingalong around it the whole time.
Mm-hmm I just hated thatstuff. I really hated the, the marketing,
the personal brand, all, all of that.I just wanted to write music, um,
practice it, record it in a studio,
play it at little dive bars withmy friends and just like have
a nice time, you know, that, that wasmy, that was what I wanted out of it. Um,

(16:01):
but because, you know, we were gettinglittle bits of attention and it was,
it was great. Um, I, you know, I, I,
I think I changed a little bit, um,
and I probably got a bit moreconcerned with what was, um,
you know, what was like a trendy sound,
what was like the indie soundof the moment kind of thing. And

(16:23):
now I feel like after, you know, I've,
I've moved away definitelyfrom the idea of trying to, um,
I'm not trying to becomefamous or semi-famous,
or even semi semi-famousanymore, you know, like I'm not,
that's not on my radaras much. Um, but when,
when you make those kinds of choices,
I think sometimes it can free youup to actually make much better art.

(16:46):
And now my music is going back to, um,
I'd say some of that alt countryand alt folk stuff. And, um,
and that feels really good. Itfeels like home. And I'm, I,
I think this album might berecorded solo or very sparsely
accompanied, um,
which will be my first timerecording a almost solo project.

(17:11):
As a Leopard I run far a field eachday, returning two different home.
My ears prick up and my head, snapsaround when I catch your scent,
all else forgotten. And I'm,cosing through the long sharp grass
to find you in the distanceunderneath the tree, maybe singing,

(17:34):
usually just waiting for me.
I love you Leopard style.
You've been on a bit of a journeyover the last couple years.
Um, what do you wanna share about thatand how that's kind of worked with your

(17:54):
music?
Yeah. Um, I've been on so manyjourneys in the past few years,
like.
My life. Yeah. I know.Talk about understatement.
my whole life for thepast three years as we, um,
yeah, so I'm truly,
I've truly been transitioning in all theways in the past couple of years. Um,
I, right when COVID, um, kicked off, I

(18:18):
decided that I was going to keepworking in change management
stuff, project management,kind of, um, worlds,
but that I was going to also startstudying a master of social work.
I think part of what inspired thatwas also that I really fully, um,
started to take up myown transgender ness. Um,

(18:41):
I, I took it up in this deeper way. Iguess I'd always known that I was, um,
I dunno, gender creative, uh,
but it became more and more clear to methat this was a part of my life that I
needed to start living and, andliving more fully. And so I, um,
decided to start medically transitioninglike pretty much right when COVID
kicked off. So when we all wentinto isolation, I was like, perfect.

(19:03):
this is a great time.
I will be the Chrysalis and I will comeout of my come out of this period and
people will be like, who is that person?Um, so, so that's what I've been doing.
And, um, so I had top surgery duringCOVID, I've been on T now for,
um, it'll be two years inlike three days from now. Um,
and it's been, it's been incredible. Likeit's hard to describe what it's like,

(19:28):
you know, we've all been in these deeplyinternal spaces for the past two years.
And, um,
to also be transforming during thattime has been so intense and sometimes,
um, like sometimes very lonelyand like quite weird, but also,
um, also beautiful and that's definitelyinformed my writing quite a lot.

(19:49):
And at the same timealso turning towards, um,
social work during that timeand giving more voice to,
um, I've always been really active incommunity development work and like
anti-racism work, um, genderadvocacy and that kind of stuff.
So privileging that more in my life andbeing more clear about this is who I am.

(20:09):
This is what I wanna do. Um, allof these things, you know, my,
my music becoming more authentic again,um, studying what I wanna study and,
and doing what I wanna domore in communities, um,
looking and feeling andsounding more like myself. It's,
it's all been happening at oncefor better or for worse. Yeah.

(20:29):
How did it feel to listento your own voice change
with the T kind of weekby week, month by month.
It's only super recently that I've beenable to believe that it is changing
mm-hmm . Sofor the first long time, um,
I was that it wasn't changing at all. AndI was like, what is going on? What is,

(20:51):
what am I doing wrong here? Youknow, um, part of that is because,
so obviously as a singer, um,
and if you're someone who'stransitioning at, you know, the age of,
I think I started when I was 33or something, I'm 35 now, um,
there are impacts that canhappen to your singing voice. Um,
if you're a trans-masculine person, uh,

(21:12):
some of those impacts can result inyour voice, not being quite as, um,
like, uh, precise,
as consistent as like warm, um,
as you might have had it before.
And some of the mitigating stuff thatyou can do around that is by taking
testosterone very slowly. Um,so I started on a low dose, uh,

(21:33):
and I took a low dose for theentire first year to give my, um,
my larynx and all of my like throatmuscles and stuff some time. Um,
because they, if, if I had beentaking T when I was a younger person,
then my larynx and all that,
would've actually had a chance to growwith the hormone changes. But, you know,
as a 30 year old, it's not gonnaget any bigger now. So, um,

(21:55):
so there was a reason, I guess,why I did it slow and steady,
but that meant that I had to deal withthe psychic weirdness of other things
were changing on my body, butmy voice was, was not. Um,
so recently my therapistin the past couple months,
like I've had to actually startasking her things where I was like,
can you just tell me if my voice haschanged because I, I I'm, you know,

(22:16):
and it's, it's COVID so Iwasn't seeing anyone. Um,
so now I can hear it and it'sextremely freeing and it makes me
very happy. Um, and it feels verystrange when I hear my old voice, like,
which is weird as a musician to, you know, to not, um,
I don't know how to explain the feeling,it's it? I don't feel it as bad.

(22:38):
My old voice, I don't think like,oh, no. Ooh. I just think, oh,
that person sounds nice. Iwonder who that is. Yeah.
And has the shift in your voiceimpacted, um, in your musical
identity in terms of like thetopics that you write about, or the,
the stories you're telling in your songs,

(23:00):
cuz we've heard some of your originalmusic, uh, in this podcast. Yeah. Cause,
and you write your songs.
I seem to be going through a realdad phase. And so, yeah, and I,
I don't think that's a coincidence.I do think that has obviously also,
you know, my dad died a fewyears ago, so of course, um,
I would be processing that, but also, um,

(23:24):
one beautiful and kind of surprisingthing that has come out of, um,
the past few months of mytransition is how more and more
I'm coming to peace witha lot of the complex,
quite painful stuff inmy history with him. Um,
and I'm feeling like I'mgetting more insight, um,
and perspective intowhile I don't, you know,

(23:45):
I'm not gonna condone all of hischoices, but I'm also gonna, I,
I just have more, yeah,more understanding, I guess, um, of some of the,
uh,
constrictive social norms thathe was working within in terms
of, um, masculinity and, and problematicsocial masculinity and stuff like that.
So my songwriting has changedin that I'm now more actively,

(24:10):
um, looking at not even, just,
not even just dad stuff, but also theemotions that went along with dad,
stuff for me for so long, you know,things like anger, things like, um, yeah,
anger, resentment, even fear. Um,
and I'm able to kind of look at some ofthose feelings from a different place

(24:31):
because I can understandmore now on this visceral
level, um,
that sometimes that anger and thatfear and all that can really come from
again, I'm not condoning, youknow, dark, violent stuff,
but like it can come from this placeof vulnerability and sadness and um,
really softness. And it's unfortunatethat so many men growing up, um,

(24:55):
just don't have access toa language for that. Yeah.
Dads are hard.
Dads are so hard, right?
Dads are so hard.
Dads are so hard. Oh myGod. Dads are so hard.
Call me your son. So I
can be her again. Call me your boy. So,

(25:18):
I, can be born again.
Cause you're a liar, you're a liar.
It's true. You, you.
I lost, um,
a friend of mine yesterday and I'm quitesad about it today and I've been trying

(25:38):
to figure out if I, yeah.Sort of how that sat with, um,
with everything really. And if Iwanted to talk about it or not,
but I've been reflecting Iguess, a lot today on how,
um, so I didn't, I didn't, um, Ididn't know this man very well,
but I know his wife andthe two of them, um,

(26:00):
lived very close to me, uh,in Camperdown, um, during,
during COVID and stuff.So during on the lockdown,
so bringing it back again to myexperience, I guess, of the city,
when I think about thefirst two years of COVID,
I think a lot about thesetwo wonderful people, um,
and their two dogs inCamperdown and how, um,

(26:23):
you know,
Camperdown Memorial park specificallywas such a place of social survival
for so many of us and yeah, I'm really,I'm really sad that he's not gonna,
um,
that we all don't get to draw from his
incredible gentle masculinity.Um, yeah. Anymore.

(26:44):
I mean, I know that we still willcontinue to draw from it cuz we'll yeah,
we're gonna continue to keep him closeto us. But so I, I met the two of them,
um,
during COVID and I met the two of themright when I was just starting to take
testosterone. And when I met him, uh,
it was one of the firstexamples that I had, um,
of meeting a man who didn't make me

(27:08):
feel very complicated inner, oh no,
am I going to trans, am Ibecoming something? I don't like,
like he was the first onewho not, maybe not the first,
but one of the first people in the longtime who really showed me that, um,
just what it is to be reallysweet, really gentle, um,

(27:28):
not bombastic, not take up all the space,not, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Um, and yeah, and I'm,I'm gonna be, you know,
grateful forever, I guess, that I hadthat important sort of influence, um,
right when I needed it the most, becauseat that time I was quite, um, you know,
it's a confusing thing. Like youdon't know exactly what you are,

(27:50):
what exactly you're becoming, howare you gonna fit into society? Um,
how are you going to project masculinity?
How are you gonna do this thingcalled masculinity? You know,
so to have healthy, um, role modelswas yeah. Was really important.
Masculinity is a reallyinteresting thing. Um,
with music,

(28:11):
I think I might ask you totell us a little bit more about
your writing cause youwrite as well as, um,
play music.
So could you tell us a little bitabout where your creativity comes from?
I think, um, so like we were like I,before we started you and I were having,

(28:33):
um, a little mini discussionaround how some of,
all of these things that we're talkingabout today, so my music, my writing, um,
and my community developmentslash social work, um,
activity, all of that stuff to me,
exists on a continuum and Iwould find it diff like I don't

(28:54):
sometimes when people askme what I am or what I do,
I find it genuinely very confusing.
Cause I don't know whether I don't reallyfeel like I'm a musician anymore. Um,
10 years ago, I probably would've justsaid, oh, I'm a musician, you know? Yeah.
Um, and more and more I'm becoming,
I've always been a writer.
And I think my first identification wasprobably as a poet when I was younger.

(29:18):
Um, but now my writing is becoming moreactive in my life and a little bit less
internal. Um,
and all of that is happening and is beinginformed by the fact that I'm living
more authentically now,um, politically and I'm,
um, I do a lot of work in anti-racismspaces like anti-racism training and stuff

(29:39):
like that. And um,
psychological safety supportfor activists working in,
um, social justiceissues. That's kind of my,
my thing and where Isee my practice going.
So my creativity right now is coming
from probably, um,
I think I've just hadenough of a lot of the,

(30:04):
a lot of the BS that, thatexists in specifically around, um,
racism, transphobia, misogyny, um,
trans erasing as well. Mm-hmm like just like, um,
that that's somethingthat, uh, not just from,
and it's not just like for myself, youknow, it's, it's on this bigger level of,

(30:25):
um, I feel, you know, whetherit's warranted or not, I,
I feel responsibility. Um,because I'm someone who, you know,
has a certain level of education. Igrew up with a certain amount of, um,
financial stability and I,
I feel like not all trans peoplehave those experiences, um,

(30:47):
and not all trans people are in a
position where they want to orcan speak up for themselves as,
as much as I am able to. So, um,
that's not to say that my art isnecessarily trans art , you know,
or that, but, um,
I guess what I'm trying to say is thatwe don't get the choice of separating.

(31:09):
Um, all, you don't get the choiceto separate all those things.
When you're a person of colour,who's a writer or a trans person,
who's a musician. Um,
we don't get to just be the artist orthe musician in the same way that a lot
of, um, Cis Het whitepeople get to, you know,
so whether I like it or not, I'mgoing to be the trans, you know,

(31:33):
songwriter or whatever who, whoshows up somewhere. And, um,
so there's something around wanting toown that. And you know, if that's gonna,
if that's gonna be put on me,then I'm gonna make people, um,
I'm gonna force people to make a choiceof whether they are going to remain
allies or, um, you know,

(31:54):
become activists of their own outside ofjust the 40 minutes that they listen to
me play a gig, if that'sgonna stick with them.
And if they're gonnamove through their life,
thinking about things that are importantto me, such as like my, my latest,
um, the latest thing that I'm kind of, um,
I dunno talking about a lot, I guess,
and thinking about a lot ishow right now in Australia, um,

(32:19):
there are lots of people havingbabies who are not women.
And yet the way that wetalk about pregnancy,
the way we talk about antinatalcare, all that kind of stuff,
anything reproductive,raising kids, et cetera.
It's always with this assumption thatthe person doing that childbearing is a
woman. And, um,

(32:42):
I have such a strain likesuch a different, um, experience of that, you know,
and sometimes it feels, I feel likeI'm being gas lit half the time,
because when I'm listening to, so atstudying social work, for example,
everything I study, it's always aboutwomen having babies. And I'm like,
wait a second. I don't understand. CauseI've got like, at least personally, I,
I know five people who have had babieswho are men or non-binary people.

(33:04):
So this is not an opinion. This is amatter of fact, Medicare data shows that,
you know, hundreds of, um,you know, hundreds of men, uh,
in the past couple of yearshave had babies. So, um,
issues like that are really importantto me. And they come through, I think,
into my writing and my music.

(33:24):
Not because I'm explicitly ever talkingabout these things necessarily, but, um,
because these issues influence,
I guess I don't how to say it. The,
I think the way that I handle someof the big themes of life parenting,
et cetera, in my songs,
I hope that I'm creatingqueer spaces with some of the

(33:48):
language that I use. Likefor example, one of my, um,
songs that I think I'mgonna play today, um,
it's the alternate title tothis new album, which is, um,
"Call me your son so Ican be her again." Um,
and that's a sentiment that has, yeah.
Stayed true to me throughout this whole,um, time that I've been transitioning,

(34:09):
I guess in the pastcouple years where, um,
it has been by embracing my masculinity,embodying my masculinity more,
that I'm able to actually feelcomfortable with my femininity mm-hmm
. Yeah. And I thinkthat comes through into my music now,
hopefully by that balanceof energy that I'm trying to

(34:31):
bring into my music.
Does it ever get scaryliving authentically?
Yeah. Great question. Yeah. Yeah,totally. Um, yeah, it gets very,
it gets, um,
I think I'm through most of thescary feeling and now I'm more
in the tired feeling yeah. so, um,

(34:56):
it gets, yeah, it was, there was,
there were some really scary pointsalong the way of, um, disorienting,
scary mm-hmm , you know,feeling like, oh my God, what am I?
Um, and it, like, I considerlike, I'm, I'm trans-masculine,
um,

(35:17):
I don't call myself a trans man and Idon't think I ever have been or will be
what society calls a man. But I also, um,
yeah, if there, if I, I don'treally believe in the binary gender,
but if I had to put myself on a
tick, tick a line on a spectrum,
I'd be pretty close to theman side of the line. Um,

(35:41):
but for a while, um,
and still sometimes now Iget such different reads of my gender when I'm out in
public. So 75% of the time now peoplejust default to he and that's fine.
Um, but every now and then someone,
maybe they knew me before or somethinglike that, um, will still, she, me.
And then as soon as a couple people startseeing me in a room or something, um,

(36:04):
it just kind of spreads and all of asudden that whole room only can see she.
Mm. And that's a reallydisorienting, and that is,
I still find that quite scary.
And I get panic attacks sometimes fromthat where it's just very weird how
perception can just flip, you know?
And the flipping shows me, I'm like,oh my gosh, what is identity then?

(36:24):
And then I fall into a dark hole oflike, what, what are any of us, you know?
Um, because if one personcan believe that I'm like,
I often like to relate it to being toldI'm a golden retriever where if someone
calls me a woman, I'mlike, it's kind of like,
you're calling me a golden retriever.Like I love golden retrievers.
There's nothing wrong withbeing called golden achiever,

(36:44):
like who doesn't love them,but, um, but it's not accurate.
And that's also wild. Now you would thinkI'm one, you know, like it's so weird.
And so then that get it just weirdsme out. I'm like, how can you, like,
how can you encounter me and thinkI'm a golden retriever. Mm yeah.
Like the rug pulled out fromunderneath your feet. Yeah.

(37:04):
Especially when everyone else is, islike seeing that you're like, you know,
clearly a poodle.
You know, like it's.
Very, it's very clear.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well,
I should say in your case a kelpie yes.
Yeah, yeah, no, I wish I was a kelpiebut unfortunately I'm not cool enough.

(37:25):
for years, I've tried tocompare myself to cool athletic,
um, tenacious breeds, and I just, no,
I've got silky silky ears. Um,maybe a Yorkshire terrier. Yeah,
it's fine. That's whoI am. I've accepted it.
What kind of dog am I ?

(37:46):
Border terrier?
Border terrier? I thinkI'd have to look that up.
I don't know that off the top of my head.
I think when you, when you getinto, what is the boarder terrier,
you'll understand.
I'm gonna go Googling later.
Now I got a side project it wasother hearing you talk about Camperdown.
And I wanted to ask about some of theother spaces that you've performed in live

(38:07):
in Sydney. Yeah. Pre uh, lockdown. Um,
if you could mention a couple ofthose spaces and how you describe
the atmosphere.
One of my go-to spots is the GasolinePony in Marickville mm-hmm .
And that place is reallyspecial to me. Um,
I hosted my 30th birthday there and, um,

(38:29):
I think that was one of the firstnights when I played there as well.
And since then I've been playingthere, like pretty, pretty,
fairly consistently, I guess. Um,
there's something about that roomand that community that has felt
like a place where Icould experiment. And, um,
it's definitely the room where I'veplayed new songs, probably the most.

(38:51):
And it's also the room where I it's theonly place really that I've felt safe,
um, in the past little bit. Andthat's not about, that's about,
that's a me thing where I feltlike psychically safe, um,
to play while my voice was likeradically changing and other places I've
played that have had an impact on me. Um,

(39:13):
the Red Rattler, for sure. Forsure. I think, I mean, the,
when you play at the Rattler, when youdo anything at the rattler, like you feel
the weight of your ancestors, you know,like in this like very powerful way.
And I don't mean that in a flippant way,even if, if it sounds like it is like,
I really mean that whether they'reyour creative ancestors, whether yeah.

(39:35):
Whether they're the ancestorsof the traditional owners on yeah. Of those lands,
whether, um, they'reyour own familiar ones,
I feel like you are never alonewhen you play there. You know,
like truly there are othervoices that, um, that join you.
And especially,
I guess in the context oftrans or queer artists,

(39:58):
I feel like that spacehas held so many people.
Um, yeah, those are two of theplaces that have meant a lot to me.
Um,
I've been daydreaming about settingup some sort of outdoor stage
and playing an outdoor show around theCooks River where I'm living now, um,

(40:19):
in Canterbury. And there's a couple ofplaces that I've kind of just come on,
my walks I've looked at and thought, oh,
it'd be really nice to set up alittle outdoor thing here. Yeah.
That sounds like a beautiful project.
See these huge pelicanswith their massive, um,
when they open up their mouthsand like, you just want,

(40:39):
you just desperately wishyou could pipe in like a,
a baritone voice that would just comeout and be like, bump, boom, bump.
You know, .
Pelican's one of my favourite animals.
They're incredible. Mmthey're just amazing.
Have you, have you seen the photos ofthem turning their beaks inside out?
Like the little no, I feel like that's.

(41:02):
A little bit scary, but I'm into it.
It's absolutely wild. Yeah. ,you're just kind of like, okay, wow.
Yeah. It's like, it's a bit obscene.
Google fodder forlater. When I'm alone.
Yeah. You've got a Google projectnow, too. Moving locations out to the,
to the Cooks River. Um, how didthat impact your, your music?

(41:25):
So I've been, um, yeah,
I've been living in Canterbury near theCanterbury Earlwood border for the past
year and a half. Andit's funny because like,
I can feel it inside myself that100% moving there and being walking
around the river,
like I'm out there twicea day has influenced my writing and my music so much.
And now I'm trying to think of how todescribe it. And I guess there's an open,

(41:48):
like just having more space, like havingthe openness, having the expansiveness,
um,
having so much green around me, um,
has changed has probably given mepermission to not fill up my music as much
with, um, yeah. With likejust like sounds and,

(42:10):
uh, and textures. And instead to sort of,
To really just to play with thespace of one sound and one guitar,
um,
in a different way than I felt likeI could when I was in the heart of,
um, Camperdown,
even though I loved living in Camperdownand there was so much like wonderful

(42:31):
community stuff that was going on, andsometimes I get a bit lonely where I am,
but, um, I'm still really, yeah.
There's just something aboutthe cooks river and about, um,
about the birds , you know,and about, uh, how ,
how the sounds around the river changedso much from my morning walk to my

(42:53):
evening walk.
And I think that having that space towalk around and just be in your own
thoughts, um, and then to be able to,
it's like literally a four minutewalk from my house, you know,
then I walk back to my house and put onmy little headset and go on zoom for my
work calls or whatever. Butknowing that that's there, um,

(43:13):
kind of allows me to keep thisyeah. Inner space, I guess.
Mm-hmm, it's kind of like you're enough.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.That's a great, yeah, absolutely.
And having the river walks, um,
to yeah,
to explore with my dog during whenCanterbury Bankstown was in, um,

(43:34):
you know, hot zone lockdowns or whatever,um, it was such an intense time.
It was really difficult.
There were helicopters constantly goingoverhead and police cars going up and
down my street, you know,over-policing this, uh, yeah.
Community communitiesof families and stuff,
knowing that the CooksRiver was there to get

(43:56):
away from all of that. Um, and to dothe thing that we were allowed to do,
you know, to do your one hourof exercise or whatever, um, it,
it was such a necessary gift. Like we,we needed it, that community needed it.
Yeah.
Hmm. Um, I was justwondering if there were
artists out there,

(44:18):
musicians out there who weregoing through a similar, um,
transition evolution to you,
what kind of advice could you offer them
with that?
I've been, having conversationsabout, about this type of thing, um,

(44:40):
with a few people, uh, recently and
One beautiful strength ofgender creative communities
is that we seem to do such awonderful job of like friendship,
mentoring, peer support, you know,that kind of stuff. So, and it's,
it's,

(45:00):
it's really important to me as a liketrans-masculine person of colour that I
specifically also, um,reach out and try to yeah.
Give some peer support to otheryoung, um, trans brand guys.
I think that's really been one of mymain personal drivers over the past, um,
year or so and something that I've talkedabout a lot with them in the context

(45:21):
of specifically, um,
singing and being a musicianand stuff is that it's okay to
grieve for the voice that you lost.
End of period. It's okay. ,it's okay to be sad about it.
It doesn't mean that youdon't, that you're not trans,
it doesn't mean that you're, um, thatwhatever journey you're on, whether like,

(45:46):
yeah, trans non-binary gender diversegender non-con conforming, um,
uh,
we already have to cop somuch, um, policing from,
from lots of other people. IfI could give someone a gift,
it would be that they didn't feel likethey had to place themselves as well.

(46:06):
You know, so you can be sad about man.
I used to be able to hit these notes.I used to be able to sing in this way,
and it's also okay to beextremely excited about your
Cracky breaking pubescent 13 year old boyvoice, you know, like that's okay too.
Like that's great too. Um,
and they can exist together andsome days you might feel the one,

(46:27):
sometimes you feel the other also, um,
I'm not assuming that everyone'sobviously like they're heaps and heaps of
non-binary trans, um, gendernonconforming people who,
who don't medically transition. Andthat's, so I'm not trying to say that,
you know, but for this conversation,I guess I am kind of, um,
thinking more about people who do, and

(46:49):
My experience has been that I was reallyworried I was not gonna be able to sing
at all. And I think that had to,
that probably influenced why I didn'ttransition until my thirties. Um,
and I just want to tellpeople that good news,
I can still sing um,
I couldn't for the firstyear and I made a decision.

(47:12):
I know I'm sure a lot of vocal coachesout there will disagree with the fact
that I basically just stopped singingfor that entire year. Cause I,
it was too stressful to me,um, to have to encounter, like,
I literally could not hold a note. Itjust, or I would, I would push out a note.
It would squeak, it wouldcrack, it would break.
I felt like I was gonna injure my voicemm-hmm by singing. So,

(47:36):
and also I was in lockdown also.
I was living by myself for a good portionof that time. So I like barely talked.
like, I had a very weird, intense.
Take a vow of silence almost. Yeah.
Like seriously,
like it's it was so dramatichow my life became yeah. In my,
my Chrysalis period. Um,
and it's only really in thepast six months where, um,

(47:59):
my voice started to stabilizeand it's gotten creamier again
around the edges. It's gottenwarmer again a little bit. Um,
I still have a very limited rangecompared to what my range was before,
but that changes like every month nowit gets a tiny bit more, um, broader.
And I'm also now startingto do very gently,
some vocal exercises and to start workingthe muscles a bit more. So I guess,

(48:23):
yeah. I would wanna say to people, yeah,
it's okay to be sad about losing certainthings and that is not in conflict with
who, you know, you are andwhat you're doing also,
it does get better and what,
whoever you are when you sing now,I don't like to say new voice,
but you know, in your new voice, um,

(48:47):
you are both the person you always were,
but also you don't have to compareyourself to that voice because you are
singing in a new way. And thatmeans getting used to that.
And that means findingnew ways to do things. Um,
yeah.
I've got friends who like trans-masculinefriends who were classically trained
to opera singers and they, they, you know,

(49:09):
two of the people I'mthinking of in my mind,
like I know they've had a lot of griefaround, I don't wanna say losing that,
but losing that, you know? Um, and
also though I see, as they movethrough transition and stuff,
like just how much happier theyare as people, you know? Yeah.
And how that translates to your creativeenergy, to your libido, to your, like,

(49:32):
to the eros in yourlife, you know, and, um,
sure your voice might not ever be as150% pitch perfect as it used to be.
Mine certainly won't. Um, but my
presence of like, yeah, libido, eros,all those kinds of like, you know,

(49:52):
life essence things in myart now is coming across is
like the, the tap is running much,much better than it was before.
It's not a trickle anymore, you know?And that's because I'm singing with my,
my authentic voice, I guess mm-hmm.
yeah.
There's definitely something to besaid from creating from a place of joy,
you know, as opposed to aplace of confusion or pressure.

(50:15):
Totally. And sometimes you don't evenknow, like, you know, back in the day, um,
in my twenties when I was singing andrecording and, and playing a lot of gigs,
I didn't, I had no active voicein my mind going, oh, I think I,
I think I might be trans.I think I should, you know, I think I'm singing in it.
Like as far as I knew, I, I knewthat. I mean, that's a, yeah,

(50:37):
I guess a separate topicfor another the day we,
we could analyse the heck outtathat. But, um, , um,
I always knew I was different, but I'vealso always been who I am, you know?
So yes, the shape ofthings might have changed.
The sound of things might havechanged, but I wasn't not myself.
I have this vision in my right now. I'mtrying to like tracking this picture.
I've got in my head of this person wholike, technically, I guess who I was,

(51:01):
who I looked like back then. Um,and I can think of them singing.
And I remember how, you know,
like normatively good. My voice was backthen. It was great. Like, it was quite,
it was quite good and, um,
but when I imagined that singing withthat voice now no part of me anymore goes,

(51:22):
ah, damn, I wish I still had that voice.I wish I could still sing like that.
That has shifted.
But it was that feeling was therefor the first year of being on.
High school is over and Ileft you behind. Thinking I'd
find brighter light on the way,

(51:42):
looking at the sun had left meblind. Now I'll buy your ticket.
Come see how I've changed,

(52:14):
come see how I've changed.come see how I've changed.
What are you lookingforward to in the future?
Oh, wow. Good one. Um,

(52:35):
I'm looking forward to continuingto build community around
myself. Um,
I'm really looking forward to recordingthis new mini album or EP or whatever it
is. Um,
getting my friends back together to seewho's in town and who wants to play on
that little album looking forward to this

(52:57):
summer. I had my, um, chest surgery,
my top surgery almost two years ago.
And I'm gonna go in and doa couple of revisions. Um,
so do like a secondround surgery next month.
And I'm really looking forward tolike, feeling very cute this summer,
um, and going to the beachand that's gonna be awesome.

(53:19):
Wonderful. Is thereanything you'd like to add?
This has been really nice. I wasn'tsure what to expect, but, um,
I feel like I feel very grateful that, um,
I didn't feel like I needed tobe something or do something.
And it's meant a lot to me to have moremoments like this, where I get to just,

(53:43):
um, yeah, just offerup a moment to people.
So thank you for that.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today on We The City.
It has been such a pleasuresharing this space with you.
Thanks Blue.
I remember the dream body,

(54:06):
both me and my eternal landscape.
Every phone, every cone ineach embrace in each sad stone
builds upon itself over so manynights work. So many nights work.

(54:27):
If you wanna hear more of Araz's music,head to araz.demha at SoundCloud.
We, The City is a Jerboa productionhosted by me, Blue Lucine.
The City of Sydney is our principalpartner and we thank the creative grants

(54:48):
program. This episode wasproduced by Blue Lucine,
and Tegan Nicholls with originalmusic by Matt Cornell. We,
The City is recorded on Gadigalland. Sovereignty was never ceded.