Michael Wilbon! - Bumper to Bumper 5/22/24 Hour Two

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
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(00:26):
the rest of the postseason is zeverlong that might go could be a while,
brought to you by our good friendsat Crazy Fresh, which we again
very much appreciate, and eight victorieswe still need az that correct. We're
halfway there. Yes, that's whatthey say. They live on a prayer.
Go ahead and get excited, butyou're only halfway there. Crazy mean

(00:48):
A Pacers should be one game closerthan that. I am still gobsmacked that
they blew that opportunity in Boston,Massachusetts night. And it did feel like,
and you know, sort of inthe Wolve's history, we've had some
bad when we've been good enough tobreak down, We've had some bad meltdowns

(01:10):
in the fourth quarter, and that'swhat it felt like. It did very
much feel like a Wolves level meltdown. Carlisle rightly took the blame for not
taking the time out football advanced thefloor football, which is the very least
you could do, even if it'syour last time out. And I have
a hard time believing a team canrecover from that. As funky as Boston

(01:33):
has tended to be in games,Game two at home, I will be
gobsmacked. Now that's the game.That's the game where you opened the door
to the possibility of shocking the world. They'd earned it. They absolutely,
I think, had quote unquote outplayedthe Celtics, and then they literally gave

(01:53):
the thing away. It was stunning. It was a Game four when Jamal
Murray when the when the Nuggets scoredlike eight points in eight seconds right before
the half. Yes, that wasit. And your tweet then was the
Wolves might regret that twenty seconds forever, right right, which is possible at
that point. And I think thedifference in that game was seven or eight
points. And I know it's toosimplistic to just do that math, but

(02:16):
that's what the Pacers have to befeeling after last night. And you know,
the whole foul up three thing,we talked about it before the show.
Of course they wanted to follow upthree, but they played such bad
defense and made such a poor decisionto not switch that original screen, which
wasn't like anything crazy, it wasa screen. It was just basically,
isn't the rule in that situation weswitch everything it should no matter who the

(02:38):
defender is. You don't worry aboutthe matchup at that point. You worry
about putting a body on somebody atthe three point line. Yes, and
he got there's the white guy.He got there late. You run him
off the line, you got.Yeah, it's unbelievable because you don't care.
And I heard Jay Williams say thisthis morning because obviously that's what they
led with the whole foul Up threecontroversy. He says, you don't care
about a matchup because if a guydrives by you, it's meaningly you just

(03:00):
want to defend everybody out to thethree point line. You just go and
you crowd him, and if hegoes by you, that's fine because there's
not enough time and they don't wanta two point anyway in that situation.
And it's always amazing, like thoseare the plays because everybody likes Rick Carlisle
right, they do. He's gota title with Dallas accomplished and he's been
around forever. But like that isin the top eleven or twelve all time

(03:20):
victories. And so that's what it'sinteresting when you when coaches get graded on
a curve because like you know,Budenholzer gets fired for that, right,
you go down the list of coachesthat have had like the old Calves guy
Day, well, like Dave Yegerwould get fired for that, the Caves
guy that did the fighter pilot bitwho coached forever, Yes, I can
see him. He get fired forthat. Like guys would get crushed for
that. But because it's Rick Carlyle, it's like, well he took responsibility.

(03:44):
That's cool. It's like Darvin Hamwould have gotten crushed for not switching
that and not getting the follow upthree and not getting the time out.
But it shows you that even theseguys that are as accomplished as you can
possibly be in this league have meltdowns. Yeah, it just shows one was
my app It was still a biggood shot by Brown and it wasn't like
it was completely uncontested. I knowhe didn't have his hand up because now

(04:05):
on a foul, but he wasat least in a space and he was
there, and he still has tohit a shot, even if it's an
easy you know, the corner threeis apparently easy. It was unbelievable.
And they and they, they hadthe ball for the last possession and they
got a bad shot. Was itwas the point guard, but it was
a Halbert Aliberton, But it wasa terrible shot, well defended, terrible
shot, and it's you know,as the cliche goes, you kind of

(04:27):
knew it was Boston's game from thatpoint. Is gonna be pretty hard for
the Pacers to recover in any way. You know, I meant to get
to this with Johnny while we stillhad him on you know, the ongoing
the recurring rumors fueled this in thiscase by KG himself about the possibility that
indeed he might be making a surpriseappearance here soon at Target Center. And

(04:51):
I have pretty much continued to holdonto the belief that as long as Glenn
Taylor is the majority owner, heain't coming back until that that has resolved,
because the hatred is visceral. ButI was reminded that look, if
the visceral, if the hatred's thatvisceral. Maybe there's something quite attractive for

(05:14):
KG about coming back and sucking upto the to the new owner sitting basically
right on top of them, youknow, a Rod sitting in Kg's lap
court side, something like that.So that does open my mind to maybe
we are going to see it.Maybe I don't think it's necessarily believed it's
going to be tonight, but thatit could be at some point during this

(05:35):
series. That leave aside that itactually the hatred accentuates now the possibility of
the cag sy. Yeah, becauseas you pointed out, he brought up
the names of Lord Mark Lourie anda Rod in his conversation with Steven A
right on Yes CN Yes, madesure that he lauded their contributions. They've

(05:57):
done a lot to where this teamis so to that extent that might make
it, even, like you say, more likely that Decadie says, yeah,
yeah, I can, I can, I can stick the knife into
the guy can't stand Glenn Taylor.Yeah, I'll raise my hand for that.
He mentioned, yes, that theyhave changed the culture here and they
were the ones that wanted Rudy Gobertand Glenn didn't. And that work because

(06:17):
that's what Mark and Alex said onthe Dane War podcast. Hey Glenn didn't
want the trade, so FYI,which not everybody confirms that, they do
confirm that they were instrumental in gettingTim Conley's attention in a way that Glenn
Taylor wouldn't have even tried, right. And so yeah, we just talked
about David Cohn, right, Imean we just talked about hiring him on
this day in two thousand and nine. And he also mentioned, you know,

(06:38):
he's talked before about the Boston Minnesotapossibilities and how he would love it
because he can just sit in themiddle and cheer for Bolton whoever wins.
Yeah, boy, go in thelocker room and do all of that.
But he said, I've got I'vegot houses in both places still, and
I got tickets at either spot.So that tells you that could be kg
conversations have been had, or heknows that if he needs a if he
needs a couple of tickets, ifhe needs a couple of pass is,

(07:00):
they're available here at six hundred FirstAvenue for whatever game he wants to go
to. I've got a couple ofgood analytic nuggets. I want to get
to when we return. And also, as I mentioned, we expect to
visit with Mike Wilbond at the bottomof the hour, looking forward to that
first time we've had him on ina long time. Tim Kolashaw from Dallas,
and we hope Tim Conley before wewrap things up. I do think

(07:24):
though, this might be another opportunityBrett Blakemore to put a grand in somebody's
hand, at least we hope socorrect. You are correct the phantom big
deck dot com. I'm gonna giveyou that shot at a grand in your
hand with our National cash contest.Head to cafan dot comment or the keyword
green for this hour. The keyworddoes greencafe dot com keywre green, don't
forget. If you want to reachus, probably tweet at s Dan Burrero

(07:46):
Cafe. And what are you now, Guardsy, Guardsy? That's right,
yeah, you guardsy. You gotrid of your affiliation. It's a cafe
or the show, either one.It's believable. It's in the Bio where
I work at the Bio. Ithink it's first. I'm pretty sure it's
the first job. I don't recallthat at all. I'm not sure,
but it's at Guardsy. Just makeit easy for everyone. Okay, at
Guardsy and on Instagram too, youcan follow me there. We are downtown

(08:09):
Target Center, where the activity isalready starting to build. Game one.
Are you serious? The Western ConferenceFinals? It starts here tonight, right
here on the fan Fans find ourMall of America Street team all summer long
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(08:31):
is a winner. So will benext Cafe dot com Qyer calendar. It
is kind of like being in afish pole here, isn't it very much?
It? Uh? Some days itfeels more like that than others,
in part because there is more trafficfor obvious reasons. This evening or afternoon,

(08:54):
it's an earlier game. We hada couple of games that were much
later. We do expect, asI said, a visit with Tim Kalishaw,
who's been longtime sports columnists the DallasMorning News has a national signature as
well because he's one of the regularson Around the Horn. And we'll get
a nice Dallas scouting report from himat five o'clock. And we hope Tim

(09:18):
Conley, who's on his way backto the Twin Cities for the first time
since the Game seven in Denver,so he has not really had a chance
to soak in the voltage here,so I'm sure he's looking forward to that,
but he's flying back, So alot of it is what time he
arrives, what time he gets intothis building, and if he can get

(09:39):
to us before six thirty, thatwould be great. Even if we get
five or ten minutes with him,we hope for the best there. Mike
Wilbon will join by phone next segment. John Hollinger, I've quoted a couple
of times a former exec from Memphisright now writes for The Athletic, and
it goes pretty deep into the analyticI guess you say a rabbit hole,

(10:01):
but I think sometimes rather significantly.A couple things he wrote about today that
got my attention that I thought wouldbe of interest to the listeners. He's
laying out the Mike Conley importance,and he notes that, you know,
obviously knowing Rudy, creating a littlebit more of a sense of order,

(10:22):
et cetera, and even hitting anoccasional shot. But he also writes his
impact on the viability of a GobertTowns front court is clear. Minnesota went
from outscoring opponents by just zero pointeight points per one hundred possessions in the
Gobert Towns minutes in twenty twenty twoto twenty three to plus eight point nine

(10:46):
this season, and that improved evenmore to plus fourteen point one through the
first two rounds of the playoffs.And I thought that was a pretty stark
reminder of, you know, Conley'svalue, because we think of the value
for all right, he knows Rudy. Yep, there's a good chemistry and

(11:09):
vibe there. He doesn't Not onlydoes he not resent Rudy the way at
times it appeared DiAngelo did, heactually likes him, knows how to get
the best out of him, andbeyond that, he just knows how to
try to minimize the unraveling that hashas plagued this team over the years,
especially in the back court. Theold adult in the room concept. But

(11:33):
I never heard it quite offered upin this way in terms of just how
much better for one hundred possessions thetwin tower matchup of Goberton Towns has been
this year, and now it maynot just be about Conley, but let's
be honest, that's the major changethat took place. Conley got here late
last relatively late last season. Andat that point, of course, also

(11:56):
you could say, well, Imean Cat miss missed a bunch. That's
a part of it too, andthat's a part of it, and that
may that may screw up the analytica little, but that cannot be minimized
because to an extent, I mean, the thrust of what he's writing is,
they doubled down on the on thetrade that a lot of people thought
was the worst trade ever. Andhow did they do it? Well,

(12:16):
they made another trade and that tradewas sending DeAngelo elsewhere the three It was,
I think the three team deal.And obviously we end up with Conley.
And what it's, what the numbersseemed to indicate is just having him
in the lineup has made that combinationseem a lot more in the front court,
a lot more palatable than it hadpreviously. He also lays out the

(12:41):
impact of going from what he writestwo thousand minutes of Austin Rivers and Jalen
Noel to two thousand minutes of Nikiel, who we also got in that same
trade. The Wolves had a netrating of plus seven point six per one
hundred with Alexander Walker playing this season, minutes in which they mostly got smashed.

(13:03):
A year ago, Noel had aneutral on off rating and Rivers was
minus four point nine per one hundred. Neither of them was in the league
this year for more than a cupof coffee. And I don't think it
surprises us because the eye tests youcould see how helpful Nikil has been.
Yeah, but that's a big changenumerically speaking between in terms of how you

(13:26):
evaluate your bench if he's taking alot of those minutes that we associate with
those two players right not being whowere not particularly effective last season. I'd
also love to know the numbers withAnt when Conley's out there as well.
Yes, that's good correat question,because he just makes everything. It seems
like he just makes everything easier,and he's The thing is, is we

(13:48):
loud him for the fact that he'sstill playing at thirty six, that he
is the adult in the room,that he does have all these intangibles.
What we probably don't talk enough aboutis what Jolkic said, The guy's a
damn good player. Like he canstill shoot, he can get to the
lane, he's a great passer.He knows how the offense is supposed to
run. He knows when he needsto go get a rebound. He had

(14:09):
like seven or eight rebounds in Gameseven. The steal that basically clinched the
game is just a smart, headyplay where he sees Jamal Murray's coming up
to half court, his guy's kindof there, I'm gonna go, I'm
gonna go try something, and hejust he seems to know how to pick
all these different spots at the perfecttime. And it's not like I think
he felt like he still had thisin him. Yeah, right, And

(14:30):
they obviously don't ask him to doit all the time, but more often
than not when they need a runor they need a three, even hitting
the corner three with the shot clocktoo. I think cut it to six,
like he's just made so many bigplays when everything else has kind of
been scuffling, it's been invaluable tohappen. He's in an odd sort of
way. As much positivity as thathas been sent his way in recent months,

(14:52):
it still may be that he's underratedbecause if he ends up when we
look back on this era, thekey to make King that controversial trade actually
work in a way that it wouldn'thave worked with a different backcourt. Then
he may be the most underplay,underpaid player in the team, even after
the contract extension that he just signedeleven million dollars a year the next two

(15:13):
years from Mike Conley. He alsoHolliger also points out, look at the
deal we got Alexander Walker on nextseason, paid four point three right million
dollars, which is, as hedescribes, a screaming bargain. At this
point, I do want to seea little more offense from him. Yeah,
I'd like to see him hit acouple of shots in this series because

(15:33):
he's going to get a miss inthat regard. Was he not against Denver?
Yeah, against Phoenix he played well. Everybody played well. Against Denver,
he was very spotty. And that'sscary, and that's that's what we've
gone back to. Really. Thatseries was the series of the role guys,
when when Aaron Gordon was on fire, Denver was winning, when Nas
reed and the Kaie, Alexander Walker, Jayden McDaniels, even though he's not
a bench guy, he's a rolehe's you know, the other guys as

(15:54):
the TNT crew calls them, whenthey were rolling, then the Timberwolves would
win. And so yeah, Ijust keep going back to the Trent Tucker
story that he always tells about PhilJackson, like it's not fair, it's
unfair, it doesn't make any senseto KIE's a half four million. Why
should his shots be more important becausethey're open, because everybody else is gonna
be doing all this, Like youjust have to do what you do.

(16:15):
Aaron Gordon, you have to doit. Michael Porter Junior, you have
to do it right like that.That's why Denver's home right now is because
Michael Porter Junior was their lead thirdleading score on Sunday he scored seven points.
Like it's not gonna work. It'snot gonna work against these better teams.
Like it doesn't seem fair. AndI know Sam Mitchells talked about it
a lot. It's probably not.But that's how important those guys roles and
shots are. All right, let'sstay on schedule because at the bottom of

(16:37):
the hour, we expect to visitwith ESPN's Mike Wilbon of course, pardon
the interruption, co host with mybuddy Tony Kornheiser as well. I'm very
curious to hear what Wilbon has tosay about this this series. I know
he's got a couple of Anthony Edwardsnuggets that we're probably gonna get to as
well. Mister Wilbon should be nexthere on the fancy is in the making.

(17:00):
Your Timberwolves, our Western Conference Finalsbound. Come howl with Nordo Game
one. Watch party tonight the Freehousestarting at six point thirty. Enjoy great
food, freehouse beer, and restureto win great prizes. Cafan dot com
slash calendar keyword calendar for full detailscaffean dot com keyword calendar. I'm looking

(17:27):
forward to this visit for quite sometime, but let's be honest, part
of it had to be the Wolvescooperating by advancing as far as they have
to the conference finals. The legendaryone Michael Wilbon kind enough to join us
via the Connectico Water Systems hotline,and as we say hello, mister Wilbond,

(17:47):
We're gonna have to probably clear upsome confusion. I already have several
texts and tweets from people. Waita minute, how could Wilbond be on
with you at four point thirty whenI'm looking at pardon the interruption and he
speaks king right now there as well. So you want to let the secret
out of the bag or not.The magic of moderning video tape is not
that hard. Not that hard.People don't overthink it. They tend to,

(18:12):
that's for sure. By the way, I'm looking at the headline.
We got like several monitors in ourTarget Center studio here. The headline is
how should pacers feel after game one? You are mixing that up with Tony
right now. Give us your answer, how should pacers feel after game one?
Because I don't think they'll ever getthis moment back again? I don't

(18:33):
either. They have to think theycan get it back, but we don't.
And you know, they should feelwe blew it, which they said
several people said that on the recordlast night. Rick Carlos said, put
it on me, and I thoughtthey all handled it very responsibly and maturely.
But I don't I don't necessarily knowthat you get over that kind of
disappointment like the next two nights laterforty eight hours, and they blew it,

(18:56):
and they blew it like they justblew it once. They blew like
three times with three or four differentactions or inactions or you know, misadventures.
That is real bad for him.I really like watching Tyrese Haliburton is
one of the great young players inthe league. They had like three moments,
three moments not yet. One isbad, two is awful, three
my god. And so I don'tknow that they get that back. They

(19:18):
had that game, and when youhave it against the team that doesn't really
handle pressure well over the last fouryears, anyway, you really got something.
You got one up. You've got, you know, a couple of
days to deal with having home courtadvantage rested away from them. You've got
a couple of days in which theygot to live in a pressure packed town,
in a pressure packed environment and contextin which, let's face it again,

(19:41):
they haven't you know, they getousted on their home court by Jimmy
Butler in Miami last year. Theyget ousted in an important game for on
their home court by Golden State theprevious year. They they they're they're right
for the taking if you get themin the right pressure situation and the pacer
had him there at last night.If you're ranking the indignities, what's is

(20:03):
the decision to not call the timeout at the top, or what's what's
the time. No, no,no, no, no, no you
you well, then it's so funny. I was able to watch the game.
One of the great fortunes of mycareer is being able to work with
some of the great minds in basketballhistory. And for a long time I
had that with Magic Johnson and beable to sit and watch games Magic.

(20:26):
It's just like, you know,it's a privilege because there's stuff that's going
on in real time in which he'sdiagnosing in real time, just like he
was if he had the ball inhis hands. Last night. I got
to do that with Chris Paul,who's working for us in the Conference finals,
and Chris sees in real time ontelevisions. He can see Halliburton not

(20:48):
moving his body to the left toblock that path that inbounds passed from going
to Jalen Brown in the corner,and he just says, oh, no,
no, no, no, Haliburt'sin the wrong position. And this
is something that players, people whoplayed as long as Chris Paul, they
know when you're coming out of thehuddle, you're reaffirming that you are reminding

(21:10):
a younger player, and Haliburton isyoung when it comes to playoffs. And
he didn't do that, and sothe pass goes in the corner. If
the pass can't go in the corner, you've got other players defensively positioned to
prevent a three pointer. They verylikely don't lose that game in that fashion.
So maybe that's at the top.Not calling the timeout and forcing a

(21:33):
pass in to Siakam is at thetop. There's so many things at the
top. Drilling the ball off yourhands and creating two turnovers physically and having
twenty one turnovers last night to producedtwenty three points for the Celtics, that's
at the top. You know,just so many things that they if they
have one of them back, theywin the game. Let's talk also,

(21:56):
obviously about this series. I'm curiosthere is to get what your view of
the Timberwolves was when the playoffs began, and how much your feeling has changed.
If you believed in them from thestart or you're allow You're gonna have
to show it to me before I'mready to say they got a chance to

(22:18):
make a run in them. Howdid you feel about them going in?
How do you feel about them now? I was hedging going in. That's
just me. They're people who Iknow picked Minnesota to be Denver Kendrick Perkins,
do I work with pick them straightup? And I thought like I
was ready by the end of thefirst round when I watched them Sweet Phoenix

(22:40):
and just embarrassed them, I wasready to. I think I said,
SEP Denver in seven. So Iwas hedging. I just thought, Okay,
these other people are actual champions,and they've got home court advantage,
and they've got the best player inthe world, and they're playing at you
know, a mile high. SoI'm not gonna pick Minnesota just yet.
But at the same time and dayI think I told you this, I

(23:03):
take Texas, this with you.The other day, there's one second place
vote you'll see in the MVP racefor ant Man, one second place vote.
I cast it so all year Iused to say to my colleagues sometimes
in text messages while they were onthe air, Why do I hear more
support for Anthony Edwards's MVP? Why? Why is shake Gilders Alexander, who

(23:26):
I love so far in a wayahead? Don't tell me Yannis is ahead
of him. Giannis was ahead ofhim two or three or five years ago.
He and ahead of him now.I don't want to hear that.
And I wasn't even hearing about Lucaof being ahead of him because Luca,
who I voted fourth, I thinkLuca doesn't effect a game defensively like Anthony

(23:51):
Edwards, just like, don't tellme that. So I have been as
a critic of the Timberwolves in pastseasons, like on the Way Up,
I kept saying, that's too immature. They do stupid stuff. They do
stilly, knucklehead things like pound thewalls and break a fist on the eve
of a playoff series. But butthey're under different leadership. Now. When

(24:12):
I think different, I mean onekid. When you have one great player,
Dan, you know this. Youwere in Chicago at the beginning of
Jordan, you know, you know, you know what happens. All of
a sudden, things can quickly gofrom yeah yeah, yeah too, Oh
my god. That's what happened withthe Timberwolves. Not that the not that

(24:34):
the evolution of the team was thatquick, but when you get a guy
that everybody else is afraid not tofollow, that changes things dramatically. What
struck during the course of this season, then, what struck a chord with
you about Edwards? Edwards game tohave you to that place where obviously so
very few others did going into thisrun. Well, I think it was

(24:56):
late in March, and what youcould tell me the dates, because you
guys will be intimately familiar more withthis than my memories. Back when he
had the block shot and crash tothe floor. What night was that to
double? Okay? So he hehe he blocked that shot, crashes the

(25:17):
floor and then played the next nightin the back to back. I don't
care if he was over eight orwhatever it was he played. And then
a couple of nights later than inLa, and I remember so where our
studios are in LA for basketball forESPN basketball coverage, I went across the
street. I didn't care about thegame, the Clippers, the lake because
I can't even tell you who was. I just wanted to see Anthony Edwards.
I wanted to like listen to himin post game. I wanted to

(25:41):
and in my kids. I gotlucky. I was able to through the
Timberwolves staff, which is just agreat staff understanding things like public relations as
opposed to other teams in this league. The Timberwolves are great at that,
and I was able to meet andlisten and talk to Anthony Edwards, and
I just I said to him,you crashed to the floor up, You've

(26:03):
blocked your show. Why are youeven in the game. And he mentioned
that, you know, people triedto talk him into sitting I like,
no, I'm not sitting out.I mean egos, I'm young man,
I'm young. I get up andI just remember thinking, and then he
had a smile and it wasn't cocky. It was just you know, look,
some people can do that, saythose things and they come off as

(26:23):
cocky or arrogant, and some peoplecan say him and they come off as
yeah, yeah, yeah, Iwant to follow him. That's It's not
important how it comes off to me. It's important how it comes off to
other basketball players, particularly the onesin his locker room. And I just
that night and I walked out andwas able to walk doutn of the locker

(26:44):
room talking to him for a fewmore minutes, and I just thought,
yeah, yeah, he's got it. This kid has it whatever it is,
he's got it in abundance. AndI you know, I've had other
former players say that to me thatthey feel he has the same thing,
and they feel as natural. It'sorganic. It's not trumped up, it's

(27:04):
not put on, it's not youknow, placing an imaginary crown in his
own head. It's it's it's honest. And so I'm man. So you
can tell I'm in the tank form. Oh and Mikey guards as you know,
I mean, yes, guard theyI want Kyrie the old school thing.

(27:26):
Nobody does that anyway. First ofall, they all want to switch
everything. They don't want to fightnew screens and guard a guy you don't
go as the coach. One ofthe reasons I compared him to Michael Jeffrey
Jordan is that Jordan would say thatPhil Jackson, Yeah, that's nice that
you got on the white board.No, I got du Mars tonight.
No, no, no, no, no, I got him. I
mean feeling the name feeling, youknow, I got Byron Scott, I

(27:49):
got you know, and that thing. They don't do that anymore. Ask
Chris Paul that on camera last night. When Chris Paul has been in this
league long enough, nearly twenty yearsnow, like eighteen literally, I think
Chris Chris said, No, theydon't know. Players don't do that anymore.
Coaches don't let them, you know. And so you've got great defensive
players, maybe, but they thenadd up for that. This kid's up

(28:12):
for it. People in Minnesota thatappreciate what they got. You don't see
this very often, and the numberof people that you see who have it
if they can stay healthy. DereckRose had it and he couldn't. You
know, he goes crashing into thefloor in that game and it was never
the same for him. I justhope Anthony Edwards canna stay healthy and and

(28:33):
I hope the same thing for LukaDoncic and Shake Gilgess, Alexander and Tyree's
Halliburton. There's a young generation ofstars in the league. To me,
they're more great players in the leaguecoming in who appears at one time than
anytime since even the ninety two DreamTeam. It's just there's a we haven't
like, we haven't talked about akid in San Antonio who's supposed to be

(28:55):
the best of them all right,Well, I mean and Jose are still
I think Joker's still the best playerin the world. Joker may have gone
out of the playoffs, the Jokerthey hit thirty five in that game,
thirty five and like sixteen, Soyou got just a mess of great players,
But are any of them in twoyears gonna be greater than Anthony Edwards?

(29:15):
I don't think so. You saida really interesting thing in the middle
of that where you said coaches won'tlet them, and it immediately had me
thinking about Sam Mitchell, who I'msure you know. Well, we've had
a lover to have him on againtomorrow. Sam's great on the air.
Love just just very honest guys,you know, and please sales stam,

(29:37):
I said, all atone, lovelldo that for sure. He's going to
be on again tomorrow reviewing game one. And and it's one of pet Sam's
pet peeves that the deal of playerseither not feeling they have permission or being
willing to demand what you're talking about, and that in many cases coaches don't
let them, which drives him crazy. His head explodes. Well, it

(30:00):
doesn't matter, It shouldn't matter whatthe coach says. You insist upon it
if you're a great player. Butwhy what is the impetus behind coaches making
that process, not encouraging that process. But it's what's wrong with all sports.
Why are general managers deciding what pitcherscome out of games? Because they
can't get to the rotation the battingorder a second time in a row.
What if you went to take theball from Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale because

(30:25):
you thought he couldn't get to theorder a third time, he would take
the ball and put it between youreyes. So this is the sports has
gone in this direction, all ofit, every sport I just mentioned baseball
doesn't matter. And so you don'thave players taking you don't have them asserting
them. Still, you have playerswho don't want to look bad. You
think you think Jordan and Byrd andMagic, you think they're worried about that?

(30:48):
Is they atomising that they didn't AndI and I know those I know
those players went to their coaches.I know of a time in which I
said to a player before a gamein the conference finals years ago, hey,
how do you guys figure this defensivematchup? Because we're talking about I'm
taking him. I go, well, that's that where coach has on the
board. He goes hold on fora second, goes right in the corner

(31:12):
office and says to his head coachor hall of famer, oh no,
no, no, no, no, no, I got him, but
you might get in foul trouble,then that's a chance. Well I'll have
to take I got him tonight.That's what happened because players are much more
involved. Players didn't watch clips,they watched games, and they understood nuances

(31:34):
of things. I'm not saying thatthey were more talented. There was a
certain personality that look like defenses.Defenses that I asked Chris Paul again last
night, when you came into theleague and you played for Byron Scott,
what percentage of plays were you switchingdefensively and what percentage of plays were you
running through somebody to get to abass handler? And Chris Miles, he

(32:00):
said, you know, to changein that over the time. And Chris
Paul is one of the players whohas been in this league the longest and
he's seen the whole evolution. Sowhen you have every now we're talking about
basketball, you could do it withfootball. When did running backs come in
just you know, just sort ofinterchangeable. Come on, I grew up
in Chicago with Walter Payton. Don'tcome in they were interchangeable. So a

(32:23):
lot of things happen in sports,and most of it happens for reasons that
I find loathsome and sort of evenmake me not want to watch on certain
nights there, But I'm watching thisseries. Man. I'm not gonna say
I'm rooting against Dallas because I'm not. I'm not rooting against Dallas. Jason
Kid's one of my favorite people I'vecovered in this league. But there ain't

(32:45):
no way I'm rooting against ant Manthat that kid is irresistible as far as
I'm started. Got a prediction forus. No, I just sat on
my own show and said, Idon't know. I mean, but it's
further along in this evolution he's So. How about this, Luca's played forty
four playoff games. He's twenty twoand twenty two. Ant Man, as
you guys, probably knows, elevenand eleven in his playoff games, so

(33:07):
the same percentage is half the numberof games Luca is now playing through injuries.
He'd be one of my three orfour favorite players if he didn't fit
his entire game on every single possession, hands up, whining at the officials.
He would be because he's that great. He's possibly the equal of Magic

(33:28):
and Bird as a passer. Possiblypossibly, he's certainly in the conversation with
the great passers of all times,Steve the Steve Nashes and you know,
I mean just you know, youname him. He's that great. But
he can't affect the game on thedefensive end, which ant Man can't.
So I don't know. And Anthony, I just think that Luca may have

(33:51):
his first struggles of his career andhis length. There's so many guys when
you can when you can throw knobsred as a second desfender on somebody,
come on, that's that's you know, Minnesota's got that working for it.
So many guys who were willing todefend, able, to defend, happy,
zealous to defend. You know,that's that's really worth watching. And

(34:15):
you know, I'm in southern Californiaand usually on these nights, I go
out to dinner, I angle onnowhere put to my TV for this.
Let me ask you about uh oneof my favorite rants from you recently.
And of course you're on the sametime I'm on, but I got TVs
in the background. Occasional during breaksI turn it on. I go,
okay, what's I could you canalways just with the sound down, I

(34:36):
can tell when you're ranting, whenyou're going, you know, there's well
enough long enough to know what's coming. That's exactly it. And this is
related to I don't remember if thiswas the vocal dismissal or it might have
been the Ham dismissal and you touchedon. I think it bothered the hell
out of you. I think it'sstill done. Yeah, it was Ham,
both both Bob Ham, because Iknow I covered Darwin as a player.

(34:57):
They both bothered me. Here's thebigger issue I want, I want
you to hopefully address here is Ithink there's a media problem in our business
right now. And I'm generalizing,but I don't this trend where within like
thirty seconds of a team being eliminated, a story is being dropped at the
athletic in which the coach is gettingassassinated. And my problem with it is

(35:22):
it may well be their following thenews. They may not even agree with
the assassination, but if that's whatthey're hearing from their sources, right,
it's their job to report it.But I'd like to see occasionally more of
willingness from those same reporters. Andmaybe it's impossible in this day and age
to push back on the stars andto say, well, wait a minute,
maybe we need to explore as goodas this player has been his own

(35:46):
fingerprints on what is going wrong hereas well. And I don't know why
it's out of whack, but tome it is it's too easy to always
make it about the coach, andI think that's being encouraged by a lot
of these stories. These in depthstories were almost a minute the team is
eliminated. Well, the only placeI might differ with you it is very
little split hairs here. I don'tknow that it's major public social media because

(36:09):
everybody. Everybody can tweet, andeverybody can say stuff that night they don't
have to be accountable for because there'sno pushback that night. There's no public
forum. Let's face it, thisain't the eighties, even where you had
some columnists in some city because say, hold on, Sparky, what's your

(36:30):
role in this? Right? Wedon't have that anymore. Most cities don't
have it. And even when mostcities that have still have the apparatus the
platform, that's not what columnists do. They give you analytics, they give
you numbers. He had twenty fivefive five five, five, five and
five, and he's the first personto do that at twenty two years old.
And they that's what they regurgitate,that garbage. They're not taking stands

(36:51):
on stuff. They're they're not delvinginto things and taking issues on in the
same way that we did. Andthey'll say you're an old man saying get
off my lawn. Yes I am, please not just get off my lawn,
get out of my neighborhood. Idon't want to see you. So
I'm old and crotchety like that.And yeah, bothered me about Ham and

(37:12):
Vogel, and I said something aboutthe case with Ham because it involved U
Bron James. You want people tosay you're the goat and believe you're the
goat, and you believe you're thegoat and be the goat, of of
sort of standing up and saying,wait a minute. So Darbenham was good
enough to get that team to theconference finals last year, but all of
a sudden, he's the problem thisyear. Come on, and there's nobody.

(37:37):
There's not enough people now saying youknow, come on, hold on.
Michael Wilbon is our guest in ourclosing minutes. Here your quick thoughts
on the possibility. No, maybeit's maybe it's even official by now.
I don't know. We're kind ofon location here that after next year TNT
is going to be out of thebusiness with all that that show, that

(38:00):
show I think has basically there's tome two shows that have risen above all
the shows where there's a million ofthem. It's Yours with Tony and it's
Charles, et cetera. Those arethe one so well. I'm particularly close,
as you know, with one ofthe people on that other show.

(38:23):
On Turner's show. The first gueston PTI the first guest, Charles Barkley,
first one, the person who I'msorry, no, I was just
repeating that was the first one,you say, oh yeah, the first,
first first guest, first yest Octoberof two thousand and one. And
in the summer of two thousand andone, when ESPN was coming to us
and saying at the Washington poste bothto a columns and saying, hey,

(38:45):
we want you guys to this show, and Tony I were saying, we
don't think we want to do that. Charles Barkley was the one to say
to us. He wasn't the onlyone, but he was front and center
to say, what are you talkingabout? Yes, you're going to do
a show. Don't be idiots,and Charles would sit with both of us
and say, you're gonna do this. If you figure out a way,

(39:06):
you gotta do this show. Thisis gonna be important. And as you
go forward, as the industry changes, and Charles knew what he was talking
about, and luckily we listened tohim and that show. Charles Barkley has
the most important voice in sports inthe last twenty five years. The other
voices that come to the front cometo the four as we have social media

(39:27):
and all that, but we didn'thave that, and really, you know,
some of us barely had it tenyears ago. Charles is the most
important voice and then and Ernie wasthe most important provocateur out there, just
in terms of enabling everybody to havea platform and skillfully navigated with these characters
that were first just him and Chuckand Kenny and then adding Shaquille. It's

(39:52):
just an important show. My motherwas ninety, She was in her late
eighties throughout her eighties and her nineties, and she would call me and say,
Hey, I what time do Charlesand Kenny and Ernie come on tonight?
And I would say, Mom,you gotta watch the game. Remember
one night she said specifically to me. She's say, eighty nine years old.
She goes, I'm not watching theClippers and the Kings call and wake
me up when Charles and Kenny comeon. And I actually told that story

(40:19):
at my at my mom's funeral becauseCharles was there, and he starts getting
emotional about it, and I said, this is what you guys mean to
the larger culture of people who wantto consume sports, but they're not gonna
listen to He had twenty five fivefive five five. These first got a
twenty two years old to do thatin the Western Conference, that that's not

(40:42):
what most people consume, and sothat show understood that. That show,
I don't know if they're gonna bea different they're gonna blow to the four
corners of the wind. I don'tknow what they're gonna do. I purposely
not talked to Chuck lately, likein the like lately for me and him,
that means a week because I hearall this stuff you guys here.

(41:04):
I don't know what's gonna happen.It's unthinkable to me that Charles Barkley will
not be on relatively speaking, dailytelevision lending his Charles nests and I say
that knowing that Ernie Johnson, there'snobody better hosting anything than Ernie Johnson and

(41:27):
Kenny is something I don't know Kennyas well as Charleston O Kenny well over
the years, and Shaq has givenme more time than I deserve over his
twenty year career. You know,Shaq was a person who always gave state
extra and late and accommodated me inmy real career, which was, as
you know, a columnist. Andso the notion that those guys are not

(41:47):
going to be out there bothers meand somebody will make sure that doesn't happen.
Last item, how long are yougoing to be doing this? They
may get ready me tomorrow. Idon't know that. I don't know.
I never trusted it. That's whyeven when I was working in television in

(42:09):
the first nine years, I keptmy day job of The Washington Post.
I didn't grow up in this.I didn't grow up looking to be television.
It wasn't my goal, it wasn'tmy desire, it wasn't my career
path. It wasn't any of thosethings. You know. I wanted to
work with Chicago Tribune, which Iam. I told accurately that the Tribune
is not publishing a newspaper anymore.It's pretty Yeah, it's it's a mess.

(42:32):
It's it's depression. So that's whatI wanted to do, and I
did it, And so this Idon't know. They did throw people out
of every network. They get ridof people every network. I'm not talking
about. What about though? Isit? Do you guys have a path
where you got I don't listen toanalytics. I don't want to hear about
it. Today I trashed the storyabout exit velocity. I'm like, Okay,

(42:54):
well, if dude's exit velocity isso great, because that was a
big deal, then why is hehit in two sixty And if he if
Tony Gwen's ex velocity was seventy percentof that but he had three eighty eight
one year, then why do Icare? Why do I care? So
I'm too, I'm old in crotchety, and I just I don't care about

(43:17):
most of the stuff that people careabout anymore. In math media, I
think that you know, people don'twrite profiles. I got to hear that
somebody went twenty five five five fivefive five five and five, But you
can't tell me who that person is, look what's his or her? What's
the story here? And so Ithink that's because they don't care about the

(43:39):
story. They want the clips.They just want clips. They don't they
don't really want what I do anymore. No, it's sad, true.
I think I'm ready to play golf. Tell you're not ready? So but
yeah, I mean, what's thepact between you and Tony? Is it
like, all right? Enough ofthat then we both go? Or or

(43:59):
is it we don't even have that? We don't. We don't, and
we we spend enough time together.I just played golf of them two fridays
ago. We spent it in separately. I mean, I'm not in a
studio. We spend enough time together. We could talk about that. We
just don't. We just don't.And I'm good with that that we don't
talk about it. It's not necessary. You know, there's enough platforms on

(44:22):
now that if somebody wants to dosomething beyond them having us, then we
can. I guess I'm happy doingit right here. I'm not looking around
for anything else. But I don'tknow that they want. I don't know
that anybody as we go forward,I don't know what they want. Like
like when I listened to when Ilistened to sports discussions, and I listen

(44:47):
to how people know nothing. There'sno shame, you know, the the
what passes for reporting, the standards, the bar. I'm just going right,
you know. You know I could, I could. I could just
play golf and watch Perry Mason reruns. They'll be all right, Oh that's

(45:08):
so good. Listen. I'm atthis point, we can I could go
for another hour, but you gotstuff to do, and we got brakes
to hit, and this has beenmarvelous to catch up. Man. I
really appreciate the extended thanks for havingme. I appreciate that, and well,
maybe seeing the finals, who knows, I would like that. As
a child of the Midwest, Idon't root against Jason Kidd, whose career

(45:30):
I've seen, and who I rootfor. Kind of personally I don't really
know too. I did with MichaelFinley's on that staff in Dallas. The
people are root for in Dallas andif people are root for in Minneapolis too.
But as a child in the Midwest, I you know, I kind
of want to see the Timberwolves.I wouldn't mind seeing that happen. And
as a person who as the onlyperson to give us second place vote to

(45:53):
Havenley Edwards. You know, I'dlike to beat my chest over there for
a little bit as has word filteredhim out about that? By the way,
have you let to make sure heyou I don't even know who he
knows who I am. It doesn'tneed to but but I am. You
know, I am a huge fanof just who he is, what he

(46:14):
means to this sport. Uh.And you know there's not in the stars
that people who think they're stars.It's kids the star. Thanks for the
time again, man, I appreciateyou absolutely, Thanks for having me take
care. That is Michael Wilbon,the legendary former sports writer. That's where
it all began with him. Pardonthe interruption. ESPN Basketball, NBA obviously

(46:37):
postgame pregame, and a number ofother quote unquote platforms as well. We're
a little late. Top five willinclude Tim Kalishaw. I forgot we got
College Shaw next and I'm already behindon why I'm here, so he's probably
bitter. We'll get the Dallas perspectivethat's next year. In the fan