Tim Cowlishaw! - Bumper to Bumper 5/22/24 Hour Three

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Fan from American rockers that Data Rememberare bringing the least anticipated album tour to
the Ledge Amphitheater June sixth, withspecial guest Story so Far and four year
Stroan. Tickets are on sale nowmourn fro hudor at cafe dot com keyword
calendar. This is interesting because itjust as Happenstance would have it, we

(00:28):
have back to back too old school, old cranky newspaper sports newspaper columnists who
have moved to the dark side intheir own ways to television. First,
it was Michael Wilbon, who youjust heard from, and I think would
have gone on for another half hour, but I said, hold on,

(00:49):
Willbon, we love you, butwe got to get Tim Kalishaw in Dallas
Morning News, former colleague of mineback forty years ago, whenever it was
when I worked there as well,Collie Shaw, did you ever leave?
You never left Dallas correct once yougot there? Well, Will Bond would
have been very dismissive of the ideathat you were cutting him off for me.

(01:11):
I'm sure. Well sure, sayI said it out loud and go,
well, yeah, you know,you know I left in the eighties
after you had gone to San Jose. Well, that's rare. It's covered
the Giants, that's right. ButI came back in eighty nine, so
I've been back to thirty five yearsat the Morning two five years at the
at the Morning News. And youknow you're still writing the column I mean

(01:33):
they're still they're they're still putting outa broadsheet, correct, still banging out
columns. Some of them make prints, some of them make the digital it
is buh enterprise, but they're they'restill there for your consumption. Help me
before we get to the series itself, which I was disappointed to find out

(01:53):
at least who you're not covering becauseyou've got the stars coverage to get to
because you're the hockey guitars. We'vegot too many good teams. You do
have too many good the World Series. Give me the pecking order. In
twenty twenty four, on the sportsplate the assumption is the Cowboys are still
on their own plateau. But beyondthat, what's the order after the Cowboys.

(02:15):
The funny thing is the Cowboys theone team that I've I've only been
a columnist Dan for twenty six years, so I've never seen an NFC championship
game. Which the Cowboys played.You know, I've been in the World
Series, right, Hamley Cup Finals, NBA Finals might go to some in
a couple of weeks here, youknow, you don't know. The Cowboys
are still a heavy number one byfar in my mind. The MAVs are

(02:39):
ahead of the Rangers now. Lastyear winning a World Series, the Rangers
crept up, you know, gottheir nose past them for a bit.
But in fairness, if both thoseteams are pretty good, the Mavericks are
a bigger deal in my mind,and I think in most people's fine Luca
is a bigger star than Corey.Seeger uh, it's just a little bigger.

(03:04):
Now the Stars, you know,they're hockey. That's always gonna be
fourth. When they're good for awhile, like they've been the last two
or three years, you hear moreconversations about him, and people are more
aware who's on the team. Andit's not just it's not just the proverbial
eighteen thousand you go to every game, so but it's always gonna be.

(03:27):
It's always gonna be Cowboys number one. Jerry can have this team lose for
fifty more years, and Steven willbe doing it by then. And sadly
and ESPN plays into it with youknow, you know all year round is
dak in trouble, is dak Onyou know, is Micah Parson's the bus.
It's just every every morning you getup there doing some nuns on the

(03:51):
Cowboys. But yeah, that's that'sthat's that's my order, all right.
So the I I think we've onthis show tried to responsibly tell people that
the Mavericks are better than you thinkthat in fact, especially post trade deadline,
where they made some moves that clearlyimproved the club that you know,

(04:16):
this is not the same team thatthe Wolves faced. In fact, I
think all four of the games werebefore the trade deadline, and Luca missed
I believe two. I think Kyriemissed three. So from your perspective,
if you're trying to educate people headinginto this building right now about the four
of the foe, how formidable youbelieve the Mavericks are at this point,

(04:41):
what are you telling them? Imean, I'm thinking this series as kind
of a complete toss up because theMavericks did get much better at the trade
deadline, but I think that's obscureda little a little too much creditors given.
Oh, they got PJ. Washingtonand they got Daniel Gafford. That's
fine, But as you just mentioned, Kyrie Irving played the most consecutive games

(05:06):
he had played since he was inCleveland in twenty sixteen. You know,
for eight years he's been in andout of Boston and Brooklyn and for a
year Dallas lineups, and all ofa sudden, he's playing thirty games in
a row and playing thirty nine minutesa night, and Luca has only missed
a couple of those games. Andso it was the first time they ever

(05:28):
had both those guys going for anextended period of time. And that's still
what matters most now. PJ.Washington was good in the last series because
Oklahoma City didn't have anybody to guard. And I assume if McDaniel's guards,
if they want to have him guardPJ. Washington, he's gonna at times
look like Michael Porter did in Gameseven. But I mean, Lucas really

(05:51):
good. He winds way too much, but he kind of winds with a
smile, so you have to youhave to put up with it. And
Kyrie, I think, will scoremore in this series than he did in
the last one. Oklahoma City wasbuilt very defensively, very good defensively on

(06:12):
the outside. Minnesota obviously can obliteratepeople on the inside. But the thing
I have trouble getting passed, andI know you should never. It was
a very small sample, but twoyears ago Dallas played Utah in the first
round and Michael Mike Conland was terrible. And now he got beat up by

(06:33):
Jalen Brunts and we kind of realizedthat that's that's that's something that everybody's gonna
do. Though Colbert was so badbecause they played five guys standing around three
point line. They had to takeQuinn Snyder, had to take him out
of the line up, the defensiveplayer of the year. Now, I
know Minnesota's made adjustments. They're abetter defensive team. The Utah team was

(06:56):
falling apart. Donovan Mitchell wasn't happy. Nobody was happy. So that's a
bad way to look at things.But I have that in my mind.
That's just clobbed two of the mainguys. But I know this Minnesota team
just I saw those games. Isaw most of that series, and I
saw the games played in Denver,and they're just you know, read and

(07:18):
finally, Karl Anthony Towns and theseguys. You know, Dallas is gonna
have a really hard time defending someof the stuff they do. Oklahoma City
doesn't even try to give rebounds.Minnesota gets tons of rebounds. So you
know, I think I have areal hard time picking who I think is
gonna win. But Dallas, Dallashas you know, two great guards and

(07:41):
and they're young sinners that aren't,you know, Lively In Gafford Day,
they kind of they kind of beatup Chet Hunger and in the last round,
sure did for sure. Tim CollishEyes our guest sports commist at the
Dallas Morning News. So you mentionedKyrie and how often he has played,
and quite frankly, how engaged heseems to be. These have all been

(08:05):
questions that have plagued him for along time, certainly since Cleveland. As
you said, so what's your theory, your best theory? Or maybe it's
more than a theory. Maybe youthink it's fact about what the Mavericks have
unlocked in him. Where he ishe's playing and talking, not in riddles
anymore, but with this serenity,like he's found you know, the perfect

(08:31):
basketball spot and basketball piece. Howdid is that Jason Kidd is that he's
just older and he's figured some stuffout. He's willing, he knows,
Lucas the guy. What's happened here? Well, you hit on one thing
right there. There's two or threelittle things real quickly. One he likes
Jase Kids. He and Luca bothliked the coach. And I think I
have a lot to do with whitekids. Just got a new contract because

(08:54):
at times you watch Kid, especiallylast year, like what are going on?
Not always sure? But but hedoes like Jason Kidd, so that's
big. Also, if you cometo Dallas and you don't play for the
Cowboys, most athletes are pretty happyyou kind of you kind of just enjoy
Dallas and yeah you might get criticizedsome, but unless you're a Cowboy,

(09:18):
the media is really not piling onyou that just everybody else is just kind
of on this different shelf. Whereasif you're Dak or Micah or any of
those people, you're gonna get you'regonna have to get used to getting beat
up a lot. But the thirdthing I think has to be real And
I don't know this, but Tyeris a smart guy and he had to

(09:39):
figure out Okay, things went reallybadly in Boston, they went really badly
in Brooklyn. If they go reallybadly in Dallas, I'm going to run
out of contracts here pretty quickly.And also at the end of his first
you know, two months here whenhe was free, nobody else really wanted
him, and Dallas extended him.I think he figured out, I need

(10:01):
to just play basketball, and thisis an environment where I like playing with
Luca and I like playing with JasonKidd and this city doesn't really beat me
up as well as I haven't reallydone anything stupid. So he seems like
a joyful player. He seems totallythe opposite of what I thought he would
be and what everything he had beenfor about four years in Brooklyn and Boston.

(10:26):
Let me ask you Luca question aswell. You know, with a
lot of really good offensive players,the cliche is, well, you know,
make them really work hard on theother end. Can you do that
with Luca? And if you do, does that have any impact on,
you know, how his gifted offensivegame is affected. Is it affected at

(10:46):
all? Is there is there away to frustrate him by, you know,
like I said, making him workot on the other end of the
court. I don't think there's awhole lot you can you there now,
I would say, you know,in today's game, everybody gets, you
know, the other team to switchinto detention matchups they don't like, and

(11:09):
Oklahoma City would switch at times andhave him guarding, you know, on
the pick and roll that has toguard Shake gillis Alexander who is unstoppable,
but it you know, he hekind of just does his thing. I
know he has good defensive metrics.I don't really totally believe those. I

(11:30):
don't really see where those come fromother than he gets rebounds. So yeah,
I mean, I don't think he'sgonna just exert himself so hard for
twenty four seconds. He's going tobe exhausted from the streams that Minnesota's running
through. They can try to doit some, but I still think he's

(11:50):
going to have enough energy to tryto get going at the other end.
So how you know, you talkedabout the officiating deal. It's ongoing.
The discussion in you know, nationallyis ongoing on Luke. I assume it
is locally as well. So what'sthe Jason Kid philosophy? Is it?
Again? What we try, wedo we can, but he's too good

(12:13):
for me to really really confront ina way that might satisfy the folks who
just get worn down by the degreeof whining that he goes to. What's
the sweet spot that his kid doeshe still engage on it and still try
to fight him on it, oror the Mavericks kind of past that point.

(12:33):
I think, I think privately hemust because he'll say things and you
have to read between the lines alittle bit to get what he's saying.
But he'll occasionally say things that leadsyou to believe if you're going to lead
a team, you can't be whiningall the time. If we have a
time out, you can't spend thirtyseconds of it talking to the officials and

(12:54):
not be with the teammates. Youknow. So he and there was a
big deal made. I think itwas Game four in Oklahoma against Oklahoma City
where he Luca almost didn't say aword, and it's like, oh,
he's turned the corner. Like itlasted one game, actually part of one
game, and then the next gamehe's back on every shot and it's like

(13:16):
I said, he does it withthis kind of goofy look on you know,
he smiles more than anybody. Sohe does it in a way that,
yes, it wears out, itwears me out, and wears a
lot of Maverick fans out, buthe does it you kind of think that
this may be just the way hehas always played, and you're not going
to get him to stop. Ialso put some of it on Cuban because

(13:39):
that's been my one biggest gripet withCuban is if the owner of your team
is standing basically with the players onthe bench and screaming at the officials for
twenty years, you're giving the playersevery excuse they want to blame everything on
the officials. So he's kind ofthe ultimate Cuban player in that respect,

(14:00):
and that he just he's an extensionof what what the owner has done since
you know two thousand, does Cubanuh when you have I'm assuming written that
from time to time, maybe saidit on one of your several platforms,
including some national ones, has hetended to agree with you and say,
you know, Kyline Shaw, yougot a point there. I hadn't thought

(14:20):
of it that way. No,No, he's just those words in any
content, in any discussion ever.And and the things I was texting the
other night. I mean, wehave we laugh when we see each other,
but it's it's like, no,he's never set challenge on you,
right, Uh. We in theearlier days when you did things by email

(14:41):
and stuff, we had bigger fightsand went back and forth. And then
I realized how stupid that is withhim. He'll he'll take your email and
post it on back when he hada blog, and it's like, oh
god, this this isn't getting andhe did that the Blackstone and it was
just it's just not a fight.You want to wait. He really has

(15:05):
backed off from a lot of thatstuff in the last few years. But
yeah, I've always said, Idon't see how you can argue your whole
thing with taking all away all theplayers excuses, which was, you know,
being one of the first teams tostay in the four seasons and great
lockers and all this stuff, andthen you give them the ultimate excuse because
you're there screaming at the refs everynight. And that's the excuse every fan

(15:28):
uses for every laws. So it'sit's not gonna end. Even though he
doesn't own more than a percentage ofthe team, he's he's still going to
sit there and he's still going todo it. One of the last thing
on Luca you mentioned it. It'sit's exasperating watching him, right, I'm
sure I'll take several checks, buta better player, if you'd stop doing

(15:50):
it, let me give you thebutt. The butt is that in any
other context? Though? He comesacross as a very engaging, pleasant,
attractive guy, you know what Imean. That's the interesting contradiction with him.
It's not just the smiles, it'seven what he says about other players
on other teams, the way heconducts himself that I mean, maybe that's

(16:11):
the saving grace. I don't know, but it is an interesting contradiction in
that regard because usually a guy likethat, you you you want to hate
everything about him, but he seemsto be, you know, a pretty
engaging guy otherwise. Yeah, Imean, it's not like some guys like
Received Wallace way back when or whatever, even Draymond at times, they come
across very angry off the court.Now Draymond has a whole other side.

(16:34):
He's mister Podcast and all that.But but look at is very pleasant and
he always says, I, youknow, I got to stop doing it.
It's almost like something he just hewishes he could control it, but
then he but then he doesn't doit very well. So yeah, I
mean that's that's why if you're aroundhim at all or just listen to him,

(17:00):
kind of doesn't bother as much,but it but it does. It
does wear on people. I amaware of that. Do you have any
fish real quick? I don't knowhow much time we have since you introduced
me as one of the old guys. There's kind of this blouch and old
guys convention. Today. I wasplaying golf with Tim Layden, Ed Sherman
and Ivan Mazell earlier today, really, and I wanted to mention because I,

(17:22):
yeah, and a bunch of otherguys are in town because Blole lives
here now, believe it or not. Mark, my former Stafford Dallas.
Morning, I sat I'm doing thisshow, and Ivan said, you gave
him one of the very best interviewswhen he did his book. I think
he said he went into the studio, come in you and he was there
for almost an hour, yep.And he said it was as good an

(17:45):
interview as he did. Oh that'snice to hear anybody. He was It
was a I mean, you know, the story and and the book,
and it was worth every minute.And part of it was, I you
know, you're when you write abook, the assumptions gonna be willing to
talk about it. But when you'retalking about what he's talking about the death
of his own child, then yougo, well, how you know,

(18:07):
how open is he going to be? An Ivan couldn't. He was magnificent
that day. He he let itall out. A guy who, as
you know, in terms of hispublic persona, has always you know,
been kind of guarded and not aguy who's you know, gonna cut up
in a vein. So I tellmy appreciate those words. And we we
had about as much good reaction fromthat interviews as any we've done over the

(18:27):
years. It was remarkable. Noquestion can imagine it's the hell of a
book. Last item, So didhave you issued an official prediction? I
predicted the Mavericks and seven and seven. It's one of those things you get
into because I take the thunder andsix and so it's like, okay,
am I just gonna right pick.You know, you get into a run

(18:49):
I did this Cowboys. When you'rewrong one week, you try to reverse
it, and you get into thisthing where five weeks in a row.
You're you're off. I honestly don't. I probably, I probably think Minnesota
is a little better. Beating Denversmore impressive than beating Oklahoma City. I
do think Oklahoma City is good.They are flawed. They don't have a

(19:11):
big guy to play around home,and that's kind of easy to beat up
on. Plus just get he justcompletely disappeared, one of the worst shooting
performances ever. But Minnesota doing whatthey just did. If if I had
to put a thousand dollars today,I'd put it on the Tea Wolves.

(19:32):
But I'd be a little scared becauseI just think they just dealt with Shake
Gilda Allixander and that guy's great thirtyevery night. I don't know if Anthony
Edwards is that consistent. He's spectacular, but of course they have other things.
They have other they have other weaponsthat Oklahoma City didn't. So I

(19:55):
mean, I think it's fascinating.I think it's an even series. I'd
kind of tilt toward the Tea Wolves, honestly, but I picked the MAVs
in seven. I understand your thinking. I've been where you're over. You
end up over compensating because you feellike such an idiot. Yeah, I
I I'm not writing anymore, butI remember those days dramatically, so even
on air, it happens too greatto catch up with you. You're not

(20:18):
going to announce your Around the Horn, no announce no retirement announcements. You
could brank break out of the show. I believe that announcement is coming very
slowly from ESPN as uh as Woodyand Bill and I get fewer and fewer
shows each year, not retiring something. Okay, there you go. Well

(20:41):
the youngsters takeover, which is whichis fine and dandy, No problem.
You sound. I was gonna say, you sound more philosophical and with it
than Michael Wilbon, who just hadon did because he did what he admitted
was a series of old guy getmy lawn rants, and he refused to
apologize for any of them. Infact, he doubled and tripled down.

(21:03):
Yea, all of them. Yeah, yes, that's the deal. Uh,
thanks as always, Timmy great tohear your voice with Thanks man,
that is Tim. Tim Kalishaw,a longtime columnist Dallas Morning News, also
apparently uh less frequent uh the Panmalistand the Around the Horn Show. I

(21:26):
had not noticed that as well.There were some young bucks on there today.
Yeah, well it happens to everybody, it does. Let's do this.
Let's make this the bottom of thehour pause. We have some hope
that Tim Conley might join us fromour Target Center location. If not,
there's still plenty of good fodder toget into as we prepare for Game one.
Mavericks and Timberwolves. What time ofthey open the doors tonight at Targets

(22:12):
sent six o'clock six or twenty sevenminutes from now. We're already lining up.
It's always interesting to me that peopleline up like it's festival seating.
But maybe it's the old I wantto beat the traffic, so I'm gonna
park. If I'm gonna park,I might as well just get in line,
get in there, that kind ofthing. Yeah, get in there.
Yeah, maybe get some modic beforethe game. How I getting a

(22:33):
feedback down? They got food theyget Yeah, and a lot of season
ticket members they get like fifty percentoff the food in there, So I'm
guessing it's really yeah, for prettygood another couple of months. How much
do we think the Timberwolves make perplayoff game? A couple of mill probably
bet it's more than that. Yeah, I'm going three. Yeah, I
mean I was thinking two to three, two to three at the playoff prices,

(22:56):
as you know, they've gotten alittle spendy so well, that make
it less progressive, no, lesscompelling for the new owners to slash payroll,
as Glenn Taylor has alleged they're goingto do if they end up taking
over the team. I hope theythey're investing this money in the stock market
right now and then you know,getting it out before next year's payroll has

(23:17):
to be saying yeah, I know, Second Apron also right away. The
cap is well, you know,all these new deals, have they even
been officially announced yet? The TVYeah, the TV deals No. So
the belief is tn T is out, yeah, and Amazon is in,
NBC is in big Yep, they'reback. They're going to have like a

(23:42):
Sunday Night, Sunday Night Basketball inAmerica, Basketball in America like they do
with football. Yet the idea,yep, exactly as well. And you
know, we were talking earlier withMike Wilbond about what happens to the panelists
on the What's the Name of theTeam T show? Inside the nside,
the NBA if indeed it's over,because but when I say over T and

(24:07):
T's got one more year, itwould be a lame duck year in which
they could do a lot of reallygood history stuff and it at be a
lot of fun, as sad asit would be. And the question is,
Okay, what happened? Does thatmean that show goes away? And
Barkley has said he thinks it doesnow, Barkley has not ruled out.
Barkley's always going to listen, andmy guess is Barkley'll end up on one

(24:29):
of these shows. The issue iswhether you can even possibly recreate the magic
that is those four together. Andthat's the beauty of any show, right
of any good TV radio, whateverit's it's not just it's the old I
hate to say it. It soundslike I'm talking basketball. The whole is
greater than the sum of the parts. It doesn't always work that way.

(24:49):
Sometimes the whole is less than thesum of the parts, depending on how
the mixture works. My guess isthat's all that's going to be end of
an Era's and I'm going to beemotional about it if that's true, because
Barkley's good, They're all good.Individually and there may be places, but
you're not. It's difficult for meto believe you're gonna get that forsome to

(25:11):
hang together. And if it's notthe same, for it's not going to
feel the same. And incidentally,why why why And this isn't just a
rant about Draymond. Why does thebest panel of show insist on adding another
voice? I don't know, becausethe other voice gets in the way of

(25:32):
what that what makes that show work. I think I don't understand it,
and I especially don't understand it whenit is what they've they're doing more recently,
and they're not the only sport todo it or only network to do
it. Active player got to havean active player on there that ESPN did
it with Wilbond with the christ hequoted from him religiously when we chatted.

(25:52):
I I don't. It's just puzzlingto me. Yeah, especially because that
show doesn't need any tinkering. No, And I get it, it doesn't
need any energy. No. Itseems like it's got everything. And in
terms of the Foursome staying intact,I think it's pretty well established. I
think Charles has even said it.Ernie might have as well. You know,
he's worked for Turner forever. Yes, and he's not gonna lea.
He does other stuff for Turner.I don't know what will be a vailer.

(26:14):
Bernie is seventy. That's what Charlessaid today. We played a bit
from his interview with Frank Isola andBrian Scalabrini today on Serious XM, and
he said he thinks actually that regardlessErnie was kind of close to retirement anyway,
that would make sense. This justmight tip the balance and say,
Okay, it's been a nice run, I don't need to mess with anything
else. Well, and obviously helives in Georgia. Yeah, that's a

(26:37):
big part of it. And Idoubt he's going to relocate and move and
do all of those things or evencommute as much as one would have to
do to get that all. Bitso, because Ernie is a big part
of it too. Everybody just assumesthat Shack and Kenny and it's Charles,
but I'm the Ernie drop ins andthe instigating and the follow ups. That's
there's a chemistry to that too.That isn't going to be just replaced with

(27:00):
XYZ host So and as I toldyou right when the Wolves get good.
Yeah, to your point, right, right, when we've been waiting for
how long twenty years to have theTNT crew here and be part of the
TNT community and have them pay attentionto this whole bit and actually figure out
that, well, maybe it's okaythe cat shoots threes every once in a

(27:21):
while, not just pop in twicea year. Yes, right, And
now a year from now, maybethey'll be back here in Minneapolis for the
Western Conference Finals again, but thatwill be the swan song. That will
be the last time. It's abuzzkill because it's part of the NBA.
As Wilbuon told you, I meanit's people i'd much rat. I don't
as his mom said, I don'tcare about Clippers and Kings. I'll pop
in everyone. So while on theplayoffs, sure, but regular season Thursday

(27:41):
night in January, I just wantto see what crazy stuff they're going to
do. The game is it's almostimmaterial, correct, I mean it's good
for the league that it brings moreattention to those games, even the games
we say, do I really care? And in fact, that's the best
part about it is maybe you don'twant to watch that game, but you
go ahead and you turn it onwaiting for them and you go out.

(28:03):
I'll even pay attention to it morethan I would where I was leading.
Is that the cat that basically there'sa maximum I think each year that the
cap can go up, and becauseof the numbers that are being floated again,
it's going to be the max again, like the most that the cap
can grow each year. It's avery different problem than the NHL has.

(28:25):
Yes, NHL, it's almost commemorativeprint when they are able to raise the
salary cap because they just don't haveobviously the same kind of revenue. And
I'm sure that's what the NBA issaying, Well, you can be bugged
by you know what we're doing withTNT, but money talks, and it's
just too much money that we canleave on the table. And they're probably

(28:45):
inspired by the NFL in that regardtoo, that we have to do what
we have to do. But it'sa it's a basketball cultural loss of tremendous
significance that I that I I thinkmost people who watch it understand that.
But it's the I think it's gonnaend up hurting emotionally more than people even

(29:10):
realize it sounds crazy. It's aTV show. Yeah, Okay, we
get it. There's no lives involvedin it. But it's just so the
signature of that show, the wayit's organically developed over a period of time,
and and and the degree to whicheach of them have sort of established
personas on this thing that that worksbest off each other. Uh, there

(29:32):
just ain't any anything, No,And time will go on and people will
be excited that John Tesh has alreadyapparently been contacted that they want to run
back his NBA on NBC theme song, which for you know when you grow
up on Sunday afternoons, you heardthat right like that, You know that
could be you know, the nextbig game bit. For sure, they're
gonna try to bring back Pete Vessy. He'd like it for him. He

(29:53):
was on. He was the Yes, he did a sideline reporting and all
the pregame reporting, the whole bigeson tw He was on inside the NBA
early years as well. Yeah,that's true. I just saw some people
tweet a story about Ernie Johnson,specifically about what he did for for a
father and a son years ago inVessie was part of that deal. We
had him on a couple Did weever have him on in your era?
Yes, yes we did, andone of them didn't one of them go

(30:15):
paar shaped a little bit kind ofhe well, he was just how crusty
he was. He was very crusty. Yeah, and it still is.
I know you do. Yeah,yeah, it's it's it's very true.
Time will move on and everybody will, you know, the league will move
on and well the new thing willbe the new thing. But it's not
going to shut down the league.But it is going to be a min
It's going to be a loss tonot have that show anymore. It just

(30:37):
is. It's not like the league'sgonna shut down, like I said,
but it's going to be a loss. Players will probably be relieved because they
get called out more on that show, probably than than any any of the
other ones, don't you think,Yes, I mean they'll they do probably
go hey, that's good. Igot not gonna get roasted by Well,
I still might get roasted by Charles, but it might not feel the same
with who else he's And I likedthe fact that that's part of the too,

(31:00):
is they'll put the headset on andsay what do you think of me.
Now if they have a good gameand then those guys, Yeah,
the players hold those guys accountable too, which is part of the whole fun
of it. And no lives areat stake, of course, but it
is fun to see that back andforth. Let's get a pause in looks
like the Tim Conley interview is notgoing to happen. I just got a
text from him that he just basicallygot into town. Traffic's bad, So
we're gonna have to maybe for luckymaybe you know, before game two.

(31:25):
Yeah, we'll see how Friday.On Friday, because I'm assuming he'll be
here and we will be here.So thanks to Crazy Fresh Produce, good
point, unbelievable, well stated,We do. Zucchini noodles are good,
by the way. Really yeah,I love the zucchini. Didn't know you're
a great zucchini mind. Well,like every other year, I am.
Oh, you know, I'm inmy eating healthy face. Crazy Fresh zucchini
noodles fabulous. We do think ourefforts, Believe me, We've made efforts

(31:48):
on Barkley, on all the TNTcrew. It just hasn't gotten anywhere yet.
We do believe Kevin Harlan's going tostop by your location and chat with
us on Friday as well during ourshow. So we keep our fingers crossed
that that comes through, because that'dbe a great get for all the obvious
reasons. Let's pause here, We'llget into some more nuggets no pun intended,

(32:10):
regarding this matchup the Wolves and theDallas Mavericks, and take it till
six thirty max. Then with athirty minute pregame to the pregame holling with
the homies, and then it'll bethe regular pregame show at seven o'clock right
here in the fan. You've heardit across these airwaves all Wolves season long,

(32:34):
and now you can wear it.Snager Hoodie who shirt for the Western
Conference Finals with options for bolls shippingto home or pick up from us starting
tomorrow. Get yours today, KFEdot com keyword store back from Target Center,

(32:59):
Wolves and Mavericks. Game one tonight, Game two Friday. Then we're
every other day this whole series,right Sunday, Monday, Saturday, Tuesday,
Sunday Tuesday, game five Thursday,if necessary. Outstanding by the way
I was. I was relieved tofind out that a couple of people have
said Caitlin Clark's going to be okay, it's unbelievable. It's like, you

(33:22):
know, they started on four.She's had some moments, but she's also
had some struggles. I think she'saveraging like five or six turnovers a game,
right, she nailed her ankle inthe last game, And there are
people it was it was almost asif we want to be sure that you
know, as disastrous as it hasbeen, that don't forget. I mean,

(33:45):
I remember when they even putting statsup like Steph Curry stats from the
first four games. Who in theirright mind believes that we've already seen enough
of Kaitlyn Clark to conclude that she'sgonna be all. Okay, she can
be good, but I don't knowhow great she's going to be. And
Dode people forget that there was areason, presumably that the Fever had the

(34:08):
number one pick. Does that meanyou're bad? It means you're not very
good yet, Okay, exactly,it's not just that they they did a
trade like four years ago and itturned out that's their pick that they get
to keep. They're not very good, So it's just and again I don't
know if it's a gender thing again, where we're worried about her, because
I don't think she wants your concern. But it's I've seen a lot of

(34:30):
people just for the record, tomake sure you talk people off the ledge.
I'm not quite yet giving up onCaitlin Clark. So that's a relief.
That's good. Yeah, it wouldseem to be a little premature.
Yeah, yeah, because it's it'sbeing a rookie in a professional league very
rarely. It shouldn't be that complicatedfor people. Oh, there's an adjustment
period. She's playing with a bunchof pros. It's different than in the

(34:52):
Big Ten. It's as good asBig ten basketball has become, it's a
little bit different. She didn't walkinto a great team, right, Maybe
they have some other young pieces thatI don't even know about that have a
chance to do Leeah Boston's good andthat's who you know she'll play with for
the next ten years. Just veryvery very very strange to me. If
you picked like number of games,it's almost becoming too easy because anybody's picking

(35:15):
the Wolves or picking the Wolves insix. So do you have have the
kahonas to go out on a limband say sweep No, I don't Wolves
in five, even Wolves in seven. Everybody's picking the Wolves. As said
that I've listened to said Wolves insix. Is that because it's safe,
It's like it's exactly right. Yes, it's hard to the whole I guess

(35:37):
you have to make a prediction.But didn't the last series teach us that
you can't predict anything? Like lastseries was insanity, Like every game you'd
go into and you feel like youhad a good feeling on Okay, this
is what we think is going tohappen, and if this guy does this,
then that will happen. And really, at the end of the day,
it went seven, but there wasno similarities, like there were no

(35:59):
trends, no way to predict predictthe way it went. Yeah, exactly.
So I think the Wolves are better. I do. I don't feel
as confident as I did Sunday night, you know, caught up in the
Denver euphoria, right, because thenyou were saying Wolves in three. Yeah,
I was basically saying who's going toshow up? Right? And but
when you when you do learn aspart of the reason why we had college

(36:20):
Seawan, when you do the kindof the background on Dallas, because like
we just said last segment, We'renot we're not doing the league pass on
the Dallas MAVs every night. We'renot watching TNT to watch the Mavericks every
night. That's your fault. Iguess I probably should. But you start
going into the Dallas resume a littlebit and go, well, yeah,
they were a playing team most ofthe year, and obviously Luca and Kyrie

(36:40):
didn't work out a year ago.They tanked their last couple of games.
You know, then they got rippedfor it because they still had a chance
to be into play in if Iremember right, and basically said we're not
doing We're we're not going to work, so we're not doing it. But
you start thinking about the moves thatthey made at the trade deadline, the
record that you laid out twenty fourto nine whatever it is, twenty one
nine in their last thirty and thefact that they guard, the fact they

(37:02):
have some rim protection, the factthat they do have too, as Charles
Barkley said, nuclear weapons. It'sI think this is going to be kind
of the same series that we justsaw with Denver. I think it's going
to be a long, extended series. I'm not overly impressed with who they
beat to get here, because theClippers are kind of a mess, and
Oklahoma City kind of just went awayvery surprisingly because Oklahoma City was tough all

(37:22):
year. Bols had some great gameswith Oklahoma City, but Dallas kind of
just bodied him the last couple ofgames of the series. So I'm not
as confident as I was two daysago, but I'm still confident that the
Wolves' depth will prevail. And let'ssee what Ant does now. And even
Carl has to be so confident withhow he played, certainly in Game seven,

(37:44):
but for the most part throughout theseries, he's not going to have
the most important defensive matchup for thefirst time these playoffs, right like Carl
Guardian Durant and Carl Guardian Jokic.I have to imagine that took a lot
out of him. So I thinkhe can be a bigger factor offense,
you know, in this series aswell. Do they have a matchup for
him? We'll find out. SoI do think the Wolves are going to

(38:05):
win. You can take your pickon five, six, or seven,
but I'd be surprised if it wasn'tsix or seven. I said five early
in the week. I you know, I think it's more likely to be
longer than that. I actually wouldn'teven be surprised if it went seven.
I do like their chances again,and I'm perhaps more than anything else,
I what I'm fascinated by is whetherthey're their plans as it pertains to Kyrie

(38:30):
Irving, end up going the waythey they want it to go, which
is asking their best offensive player toguard him the bulk of the time.
Yeah. And because what's interesting aboutit is the league We're talking about this
with Wilbond a little bit that there'sI think, more than ever greater hesitation

(38:52):
to ask or demand that players dowhat Edwards is now being asked to do.
I love that he clearly wants tobut they also are encouraging it as
well. But how does it work? Because I tend to believe, like
most people, that Luca is goingto score Yep. Uh. He may
miss a lot of shots though,by the way, but I think he's

(39:13):
going to score. Uh. Isthat KG coming through now? It's just
the hype team. I thought itwas maybe they were ushering KG to their
foresight spot. Don't see him nowunfortunately? Probably. Yeah, that's true
too, that Luca is going toscore. But Kyrie, who did not

(39:34):
score that well in this last series, what does he do and at what
cost the fact that you want Edwardson and what cost does that come at?
Does he run into some foul troublehimself a little bit? Might he
get tired a little? Because ifhe if if if Edwards, I mean,

(39:54):
people are looking at as the matchupis Edwards and Luca, even if
they're not guarding you each other,and they kind of cancel each other out,
that kind of thing. But Ithink the larger issue again is the
assumption is Kyrie Irving is the thirdbest player in this series yep, and
I don't disagree with that, Buthow does he perform here? I'm fascinated

(40:14):
by that question. And at theend of this series, how much do
we look back and say this isAnthony's crowning achievement. He scored well,
and he kept the guy who everybodysays the third best player who had to
play great really for Dallas to winthis series. He kept him under control.
Well, it's different because ant againstthe Nuggets could take a break for

(40:37):
a little while defensively, because Jadencould guard at free Yeah, but Jaden's
going to be guarding Luca now,so there's not going to be that break
is probably unless they put somebody elseon Luca for a little while, there's
not going to be because I thinkyou're going to see SlowMo on him some
you probably don't have. I'm notoffended by it. I know we've been
frustrated by him offensively, but Ifrom a body standpoint, it for I

(41:04):
don't know, maybe ten to fifteenminutes a game. He's a smart defender.
It makes it. And he's gotsome physicality to him, he's got
some size to him, he's gotsome moxie to him. I think it
actually makes some sense. And ifyou're just flipping him for Jaden, then
you're taking one, yeah, youknow one limited offensive playfun kind of right,
like that's where they get in troubleand you've talked about it, you
know, going back to the Phoenixseries. They throw out these lineups where

(41:25):
you're wondering, like, is nasReed really the one that's just gonna cook
him or even Conly, like theycan obviously score, but they're not the
shot creators and the easy buckets andagainst Dallas, as everyone has told us
now, like Dallas will shoot Johnnystarted it. Kaylei Shawe talked about it.
This is a better three point shootingteam, at least volume wise,
in the other one. And thatis the tough part about the Wolves.
When they're giving up a bunch ofthrees. Percentage wise, they're good,

(41:47):
but they're not in a They're nota bolt three three point shooting team either,
so it's hard to come back ifthe other team's going three by three
like that. So I'm curious tosee because in the first half against Denver
in Game seven, did not guardJamal Murray, and Jamal Murray went off.
He had twenty some points, andthen second half when they needed them
to that was the time. Therewas other times in I'm getting the series

(42:09):
mixed up, which is a goodproblem to have. You could tell Ant
was tired because of the fact thathe had to do with so much offensively
and defensively. So there's got tobe a way either to help him out
defensively, to give him breaks,or like I said, have Carl'll be
the one that kind of drives theoffense for a stretch so he can rest
a little bit. On that end. We will also talk about one other
I think if you want to callit an X factor that I definitely think

(42:30):
works in the wolves favor if it'shandled correctly. Top of the hour pause,
No Tim Conley today, Maybe ashot at him on Friday. Will
continue with the Wolves conversation from TargetCenter next. Halve hits the road this
week for the Charge Challenge Punishment.You can keep up with them on our
social channels as he makes his wayfrom Philadelphia to Los Angeles. For full

(42:51):
list of stops in a list ofall the great products he's bringing with him
at over to Cafe dot com slashroad Trip. Nyder apologies that Minnesota Twins
they got it done. Seven gamelosing streak ended last night and then they

(43:12):
win the rubber game of the seriesover the Nationals three to two, three
to two. So now they're offtomorrow, right and then head and then
they start a weekend series from Yes, I believe, yes, back here
that's where they yeah, and wherethey've moved the time the start time to
six' ten to help alleviate atea little distance between the two games.
The Wolves skin, which as yousee, doesn't do much because the skyway

(43:35):
was just packed with roofs that justgot let in six o'clock was the gate
time. Now it's you know,empty, that's true. It's a nice
leisurely paced now, yeah, you'reright about that. Is that why Derek
Falve seemed to be in a goodmove when he walked by you? I
mean if they if they showed theTarget Center big shots showed Falvey on the
big screen, how many people wouldrecognize him? Do you think? Well,
given that like in the upper deckthe crowd is like thirty and under

(43:58):
in every seat, Yeah, probablyzero because they don't watch baseball, I
don't think it'd be a lot.No, if you're wondering with to be
some muttering, Might there be somebooze? Yeah? Whatever, But I
I don't He's got that look thatevery man looked to him. Conley,
It's exactly right. It's the samething I think, and Conley loves that,
and I think fal does. They'renot interested in making a big splash,

(44:22):
all right. X factor. Idon't know if you want to call
it an X factor or not.And I believe might have been Johnny who
brought this up. I can't remember, but we talk about the matchup problems
and what this might possess, mightthe challenges for the Wolves with the two
big men whatever. I do thinkagain that even though most people, pretty

(44:45):
much everybody in the basketball world wouldsuggest that Kyrie Irving is the third best
player, kat would be four.I think this is a nightmare matchup.
The Towns represents a nightmare matchup forDallas. I agree there may be some
challenges for him and Rudy on thedefensive end, but I think on the
offensive end, there is no Idon't think there's any natural matchup there for

(45:07):
Dallas where this is a series whereI think he should be able to score,
agree be a big time score.And we've said sometimes he's played well
even without scoring big but I thinkthis is a scoring series for him,
or needs to be a scoring seriesfor him. And also, like we
said last segment, he's gonna haveto guard obviously and play defense. And
I'm sure he's going to be partof the Luca plan too. You know,

(45:30):
somehow they start throwing different guys athim. It's certainly on double teams
he should have. He should beable to operate offensively without having to expend.
I mean, he was like eventhe putback dunk that he had that
basically wrapped up the game. WhatI loved about it was. You could
tell he was sprinting right back togo find Jokic, you know what I
mean. There was no history onics, no flex scene. He wasn't doing

(45:53):
anything stupid, and not even stupidis the right word. He wasn't doing
anything celebratory. Was like, Igotta go back and find the best player
in the world because that's my job, and that's what I like. He
was so serious about the defensive partof it for the first two series,
which is great. He's not gonnashaven the most critical defensive matchup in this
series, right, He had toguard Durant in series one. He had

(46:15):
to figure that out, and Durant, you know, got some but Kat
made him work for it, andobviously Jokichi was the best matchup for him
and it allowed Rudy to do ithe wanted to do and everything that came
with that. I don't think it'llbe checking a big time score. It
doesn't sound like yeah, like hejust did. So does that give him
more energy and more opportunity to reallydive in on the offense. That's reason

(46:36):
to get in foul trouble, evenless reason than usual for that. Just
don't get if he avoids the offensivefouls. Yeah, that's that's just that
extra foul makes such a difference,and the timing of it too, always
makes such a difference. So,you know, we've talked about the the
atmosphere. It's it's I have tobelieve this thing builds on itself that when
the series goes the way it didlast time. There was especially when the

(47:00):
Wolves fell behind nine to two inGame six very early. Even though it
was very early, there was definitelya flutter. There was something through the
crowd that said, oh god,oh my, what are we doing?
You know what's happening here? ButI think tonight, especially again, it
should be crazed because it'll be nuts. Now you got in the back pocket.

(47:20):
Well, no, we're we're We'refor this team's obviously for real.
They're now in the final four,they're starting the series at home, they're
favored. So my guess is itmay even be the loudest we've heard yet
because even fans need, you know, have that. I think the result
of the way this has played out, they get a confidence boost from that.

(47:40):
I'm hoping we're past the ordugs stage. Although again, if goofy things
happen in this series, we won'tbe we will revert back to that,
even though they insisted to me thatthat's why they can't win the previous series,
where I thought, well they don'twin the previous series. It might
have more to do with with whatDenver affords. But I'm not saying they're
going to be cocky to night.I just think there's gonna be that.

(48:01):
It's it's another one of those anticipationnights where they're not going to go in
with fear and lower level just walkright by. He has he didn't even
know what cities and look at him, he has no idea, He didn't
even know who said that? What'shappened to you? Oh you're business?
Oh yeah, you got so muchto do. He's unbelievable, unbelieving.

(48:22):
He didn't even wave. No,he's a man with a mission. I'm
pretty sure. I'm pretty sure Finch, he's already talked. I was gonna
say it in a little late.Yeah, it's usually he's ninety minutes before
thinking about it's ten after six classiclevel look right, didn't even I mean
didn't even turn at all. No, didn't even wait. And then all

(48:43):
he would do was give you thetap on the water. He's so busy.
He's a journal what's he been doingall day? Don't his books already
season? His book's already published.We've given him as much publicity as I
thought we could possibly give, soin any case, that is unbelievable.
Wolves four and a half point favoritestonight is I think that's about right?
Yeah, and for the series,I think they're about one to seventy.

(49:04):
Max will say hi to us,Yeah, Max, and he's closed.
You're saying we don't have to coaxanything out of Max. Is that what
you're saying. No, you're sayingMax doesn't have to be drawn out,
No, A B. You don'thave to like work to get him to
usually himself, not usually. Let'sdo this, let's break uh, and
then we will include Max in theconversation because I know he's Uh. He's

(49:25):
going to be taking over at sixthirty for a a controversial thirty minute pregame
to the pregame, and then we'llfind out at what point the shirt might
come off tonight as well, backfrom a Target center next year. In
the fin it's the bumper to bumpershow wrap. I don't know how much

(50:15):
podcasting. You guys are gonna wantto do any of you who are listening
now, given you got a gametonight the Wolves of course hosting the Dallas
Mavericks. But I do want tothank our outstanding guest lineup today, Johnny
Athletics stop by early at our TargetCenter Cage location. We had a great
phone conversation with Mike Wilbon, followedby an equally good one from Tim Kalishaw

(50:38):
from the Dallas Morning News. Andthen know Tim Comley today and we're hoping
we might be able to get himThursday. He just came back to town.
He's busy scouting and I said,snarkily via text, why are you
scouting? You traded away all yournumber ones, and he reminded me,
well, actually this is one ofthe years. Every other year you got
to get Yeah, they got toget it right. So he was kind

(51:01):
of late to the party. I'massuming he's gonna be at the game tonight,
though I would imagine maybe he justwants to watch it on TV at
home with the kids. It's possible. Well, he's a family man,
he has a family, a familyguy. After we're done at six thirty,
so right around the corner live inLocal Max is of course back in
the chair for a thirty You're usedto an hour pregame though, why is

(51:22):
it only a half hour today?Well, because we're ontill six thirty.
I'm not an idiot. Yeah,on that it makes some sense how that
works. So you got to yougotta put an hour of fun and a
half hour. You got to compactit. Yeah, and you have to
deal with your adoring fans. You'refawning fans here at the Skyway location as
well. Well. The shirt.Has the shirt ever come off before a

(51:43):
game? Not usually before a game. This is probably the first time I've
worn a shirt in the last likeforty eight hours or so. You look
hot. I do feel a littlebit uncomfortable. We've got like nine dudes
in here. This room has beenwarm all day. The air conditioning is
no wonder you guys take your shirtsoff in here. The air it's been
stuffy in here. Now. Wegot Parker Fox, we got Bonus,
we got Nick, we got Halby. There's like two tons of man in

(52:07):
here, eighty eight degrees in here. Yes, is really steaming for good
Kfe and howling with the homies.Might have to be on only F A
N S because we're gonna we're gonnabe butt naked up in here. Yeah,
that's how it's going. So postgame as well, win or lose?
Yeah, post game Wales games,Well, yes, sir. How
do you guys gauge how long yougo? Is it? Is it based
on calls? Is it we goan hour? We go, two hours?

(52:29):
We go the whole night? What'sthe approach? Usually no, there's
no there's pretty much no rules onhowling with the homies that the inmates are
running the asylum. I mean,if we win, we'll go all night.
We'll go into the freaking Power ChipMorning Show at five thirty eight.
If we lose, I'll come onand say, hey, so how did
the Twins do tonight? And thenI'll call it a night. I think
the Skyway closes at like one,so just keep that in mind. To

(52:51):
keep that in mind you want towant to get locked in here. I
wouldn't think the skyway level. Sowhat did you make an official prediction last
year? I think I said wolvesin six. Yeah, cliche is everybody's
picking the wolves is picking them insix because it's safe. It's kind of
in between and of course game six, Uh is, well that's actually there.

(53:15):
What's your what's your vibe? Thistime? I'm going Wolves in five
and five. I think that theMavericks are built kind of like the Phoenix
Suns, and we have the exactkind of wing defenders to neutralize what they
are good at, and they don'thave the defense to keep up with what
we're good at offensively. So I'mnot you know, I respect the Dallas

(53:35):
Mavericks. They've really turned it aroundsince the trade deadline, PJ getting,
PJ Washington and all that, butit made some good moves. The only
horses that I acknowledge our Sea Biscuitand Meghan the Stallion. I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid of the Dallas massMegan the Stallion, Megan the correct
I'm young, I get it.How old are you, by the way,
for their Yeah? Thirty years ago? Thirty yeah? Year? What

(53:59):
a youngster think about it? He'sgot he's got his grandma scolding him for
taking his shirt off. Yeah,how that is it? How you're handling
that? Yeah, it was tough. My grandma texted me she saw the
video. I post one little videoof my shirt off, one little video
and Grandma's acting like I'm shaking upbehind on the stage a days off foo
or something. She texted me andsaid, no more stripping, because I
know too many people that watch andlisten to you, not for any moral

(54:21):
reason, just because I'm embarrassing.Do you are you going? Do you
intend to listen to her? Doyou have to listen to her? No?
No, no, no, I'mnot going to listen to her.
No. That's what the people,that's what the people want. That people
want me to take my shirtles.But see, that's where you got to
be careful because there may be nolimits to what the people want you to
do, and there might be somelimits that you might want to self impose.

(54:42):
It's people don't pay your bills.That's that is true. That is
true until I start my only thing. Yeah, the bit's good, but
you want to you want to beable to keep the bit. Just keep
the job, and then there mightbe limitations to how far you can go.
I tweeted this out after Game seven. Did anybody care to check Brett
blakemore after you put him in sometype of headlock and threw him to the
ground. Yeah, he's day today with an upper body of injuries.

(55:07):
I vivid, like outside of allthe nipples between Hot and Parker and you,
I just see this bald head justkind of like fly through the screen,
Like was that Brett? Like didyou really assault Brett Blakemore. That
was unbelievable. It did look likeit looked a lot rougher that. It
looked like a ww move on BrettBlakemore in the video. I built water
everywhere in the break room because ofthat. Yeah, unbelievable. He's still

(55:30):
recovering. No concerns about human resourcesviolation with Blakemore, right, that's another
if we had to worry about humanresources at the fan, I think I'm
still at the back of the line. Yeah. Yeah, there's a couple
of people that are ahead of mein that line. You're probably right about
That's that's one thing you got gonefor you that I never thought of that
way. You're right, Yeah,Yeah, that's very well played. Well,

(55:52):
we're all looking forward to it.I think tonight. I feel as
good as you do. I saidoriginally five, I've meandered a little bit.
I wouldn't even be surprised if it'sseven, actually, because I do
think the Mavericks are a little betterthan people think. Yeah, I love
the matchups, and I was sayingearlier to me, the most interesting one
is the Wolves have made it clearthat they intend to put Edwards on Kyrie,

(56:15):
and I love that first of all, because Edwards welcomes it. He
obviously wants the challenge of it,and I want to see what he does
with him because Kyrie Irving is i'lltell you guys, a hell of a
closer, capable of doing probably betterthings than he did in this last series.
But I like that well. Edwardsis one of those guys were always
gonna have to evaluate not just onwhat he does offensively, but what he

(56:37):
does defensively, because he's so goodat it, so interested in doing it,
and as Wilbond reminded us, I'mtrying to maybe to get into the
Ant will. He apparently was theonly NBA MVP voter who gave Ant a
second place vote. He was onlyit, which looks better now maybe than

(56:59):
it did at the time. It'sa it's aged well. He's apparently got
a great Michael Jordan's story that hecan't share on air that he said I
need to call him about, soI may she'll try to get it on
the air somehow. I'm curious ashell about what Michael might have said,
Michael Jeffrey Jordan. That's it,as he called. That's right. Thanks
for listening today, Thanks for textingtoday. So pregame to the pregame six

(57:22):
thirty to seven, regular pregame atseven, and then holling with the homies
afterwards. Winter get committed up toit. Yeah, we're committed to the
bit. The certain might still beoff if we lose. There you go,
who cares. We's hot here.That might be the reason. Keep
the pants on though,