August 19, 2023 • 35 mins
Ron starts this episode talking to Harlan Siegel of Launch Technologies regarding scan tools, and talks with a listener, Michah from Maine, regarding the mechanic/customer relationship.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ron Anian, I like doing this because it makes Danny crazy.
My mechanic. I got out my little two ounce bullpeen hammer.
I said, hey, you want to see something neat? I said,
I know what's wrong with this car? He goes, really
does the ben fuse box? He says, how can you
prove it? I took the two hounds bullpen. I tapped
it right where the connector is. Car shut off?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Have time?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
The car doctor Tom wants me to tell you what
PMW stands for. Do you know what BMW stands for?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I don't know what about to come out of your mouth,
but I can almost get well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
BMW stands for a variety of things. The most common
is Bavarian money waster.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, the Car Doctor.
Since nineteen ninety one, this is where car owners the
world overturned to for their definitive opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
The phone and call in.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The garage doors are open.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But I am here to take your calls. At eight
five five five six ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hundred and now he touched this hee running.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We're going to start today with a man that really
needs no introduction. He's been here before. I consider him
a personal friend. Our relationship has grown as many doing
the in any industry, especially the automotive one. He's Harlan Siegel.
Harlan has been around this industry and helped so many
companies and help them in their scan tool development. He's
sort of like the scan tool godfather. I guess we
(01:23):
could call him. And he's been around a while. I
think he went to the horse track races with Henry
Ford when he was building the Model A. Probably not right, Harlan,
let me get you in here. Probably not that long.
But you've been around a while doing this, right.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just a little bit after.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The model A little bit after a little bit after
the Model A. But seriously, how long you've been in
scan tools, Harlan tell the.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Listeners over over forty years? Right? Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A lot of knowledge there, brother, Yeah, you know, and
you've been with You've been with all the major companies.
You're currently with Launch launch Tech USA, and you know,
we wanted to have an informal chat. I'm glad I
to pin it down because we want to have an
informal chat about scan tools. You know, we can't talk
enough about scan tools. It's it's it's it's an ever growing,
ever evolving conversation.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You know, one of the conversations that I always have
here on the show is, Hey, Ron, I need a
scan tool.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
What should I.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Look for and what features? And you and I we've
had that conversation here.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
It's it's it's be We're kind of beyond that. Like
if I said to you, Harlan, could you imagine a
shop and just answer this one. You know, could you
imagine a shop trying to fix a car today without
a scan tool, what would your reaction be?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
It would be It'd be impossible. It'd be the same
thing is uh is not is not having a you know,
a ten milimeter socket.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, but Harlan, all I do is oil changes. Do
I really need a scan tool to do oil changes
on cars?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Absolutely? You got to You got to put out that
reset light.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Right, you got to put out the reset light. So
there's nothing simple, you know. It's it's it's technology is
making us pay the price and and and pay the
freight and for that reas you know, we look at
a scan tool and for everybody out there that may
not know a scan tool. It's sort of like when
you go to the doctor. It's a tablet that plugs
into these There's a connector under the dashboard currently, a
(03:11):
sixteen pin trapezoid looking piece that you know has been
there since nineteen ninety five and six, and it is
the life link to deciphering all the information the car
computer has. Does a scan tool evolve? Harlan? I mean,
I know the software changes, right, you know, the manufacturer
(03:33):
comes out with and they'll add a different module for
air conditioning or a different module for tire pressure sensors.
That software stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Do you know, talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
The hardware a little bit. What sort of hardware does
the current generation scan tool have? And what do you
see for the future.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, that's a great question, Ron, And and look, I
mean the fact of the matter is, you know, if
I had this conversation, you know, some years back, uh,
you know, there'd be competitive advantages amongst the manufacturers out there.
One graphs, eight parameters, one graphs twelve ones at collar
ones are black and white, you know, all that kind
(04:13):
of stuff. And then then it moved to who has
a bigger screen and who has a bigger process or uh,
to the point where a lot of these tools are
mature and the benefits lie in software and support and
and other things down the road that the scame tool
may be able to do. But to answer your question,
(04:34):
so so yes, all of it matters, and in the
processing power simply allows for a faster response. Uh, you know,
be able to move around the tool from module to
module much more quicker than if you had a slower one,
and be able to be prepared with more complex software
as it gets installed.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know what what the listeners should keep in mind
if they're considering scan tool purchasing and correct me if
I'm wrong, Harlan. But you know, let's say you're working
on a fuel trim problem, right, You're trying to diagnose
a P zero one, seven to one, and you know
you're you're in year Make model. You're not using OBD two.
You're in year Make model, and you're looking at, you know,
your Toyota Camri fuel trim and you've got all the
(05:19):
PIDs up in that grouping that could be depending on
depending upon the tool and how the manufacturer allows it,
that you could be looking at forty PIDs. Forty PIDs
is a lot of information.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Right, and it's going to absolutely and it's going.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
To slow down the processor. So sometimes I say to
people when we're buying a scan tool, you know, you're
buying the software, you're buying a lot, but you've got
to look at the hardware. You've got to look at
the processor, how fast is it, what brand processor is it?
And you know what's that whole scan tool platform based on.
You know, because you're going to take that that P
zero one seven one diagnosis and you know it's a
(05:56):
four cylinder, so you're going to look at long term
fuel trim bank one, short term fuel trim bank one.
You might look at O two sensors and graph them
as you as you correctly pointed out, and you might
look at air fuel ratio sensors and cool and take
you know, maybe six to eight PIDs and that speeds
things up. But one of the neat things that a
scan tool does is every time you plug in it polls. Polls.
(06:21):
I think you're familiar with that term, right, Harlan, You
know what I'm talking about that absolutely talk about polling
and how does that affect the scan tool and the
ability for the person to you know, fix the car quickly.
Is what I'm trying to get through. Polling is a
big It's something that happens we don't even realize it's happening.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, you know the whole thing with scan tools right now.
And then the scenario that you pointed out, and what
we call is recording all of the data all of
the time, so you can always reflect back in your
research of the pits for not what just happened at
the moment, but what had happened maybe fifteen seconds prior
(07:01):
thirty seconds prior before the event. When we say event,
we meaning the driver ability to hip hop or whatever
happened to the vehicle or after the event.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And the other.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Piece with that data buffering, as we call it, is
you're able to look at related bits to that because
sometimes in your example of fuel trim, I mean there
may be you know, something you know wrong an EMBAC
system that's causing that fuel trim to be on a
(07:33):
line and it's a little bit indirectly related. But if
you're not looking at all the perimeters and recording all
of the data all of the time, there's a good
chance you will miss it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And at that point you'll ruin your whole diagnosis and
go down the wrong path.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So when you at launch design a scan tool, you know,
you create the next best thing, as you guys have
done so often. You know, what do you consider?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Do you do?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You look at groupings and the ability to move software
around and bring up select PIDs and you know, can
you talk about that process a little bit. We don't
want to take any trade secrets, but you know what
goes into the thinking to develop that tool properly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Well, it's funny that I asked, because there is something
that we are working on right now. I can't share
it exactly, but it's along that line. So when you're
looking at how can a technician or even a diry person,
you know, how can you benefit from the next technology?
You know, so you've got the cool hardware, you've got
(08:40):
the cool software. And when I say software, generally most
people refer to coverage that the scandal has. But what
what can you do with that? Like? How can it
help me out? And that's where we're trying to polish up,
So being ahead of the curve and then taking advantage
of the communications speeds of which the vehicle communicates and
(09:03):
the horse power of the tool itself. But you have
you had pointed out before, which shows itself when you're
trying to you know, do multiple graphing. So when we're
looking to developed something, for example, I don't give me
something that just recently came out right now on our
upper end product, which which which we do a topology report,
(09:23):
which means that as when when you hook up to
the vehicle, it scans all of the modules but pictorially
displays the communication and block diagram form of each controller,
the name of the controller, the result of the communication
in any boats found, as well as the communication network
(09:45):
it's on. For example, if you had five controllers on
one can bus that say the high high speed can bust,
it will it will be like a series one diagram
and show you all along those those lines. And what
we recently just introduce is we're able to scan a
multiple high speed control is at the same time, even
(10:08):
though they are on different networks.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So you're telling me, I walk up to a late
model anything or whatever, you know, a twenty fifteen Toyota Camri.
We'll stay with Toyota. That's where we started, right, I
walk up to a twenty fifteen Toyota Camri. I'm gonna
plug in my launch scan tool, and it's topology. It's
gonna show me on the on the on one of
the screens as I'm going in. If there's fourteen different
(10:33):
modules on all the data buses online on that vehicle,
I'm going to see all fourteen and they're going to
be different colors showing me good, bad, trouble code, no
trouble code, no communication and I can I can access.
So if I see, for example, the PCM, the power
train control module has a fault code, once it's done scanning,
I can just tap on that PCM icon and go
(10:55):
right into it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Absolutely absolutely. And if it's it's on a let's say
a particular can bus and that controller is first in
line on this series can bus and you have multipole
falls in different controllers, do you be able to see
in that topology report that just like Christmas tree lights,
(11:18):
so you know that that that that that one light
out might be affecting the others that also are not lit.
But you can see where it is in the in
the communication order.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's that's kind of cool, hardle and that that sort
of safe steps. Right, You're not you're not going in
and doing a vehicle scan and then you got to
scroll down a menu, and I can see that saving
a lot of time in a repair shop environment. That's
that's crazy. Hey, listen, pull over, let's pull over to
take a pause. Sit tight. When we come back, I
want to continue this conversation about topology and what's new
(11:49):
at launch. I want to try and you talk a
little bit about the electric vehicles. You know, is there
going to be a scan tool for electric vehicles? You know?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Do we need one?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Is it? Is that part of our future consideration as
we try to repair cars. So I'm here with Harlan Siegel.
He's with launch Tech, Launch Tech USA. I'm running inading
in the car Doctor. We'll both be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Don't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
He drives that way.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
But when it comes to fixing cars, Ron has car
advice done right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Eight five five five six zero nine to nine zero zero.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Here's Ron. We are back.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Welcome back to listeners, running inading the car doctor. Hear me,
Harlan Siegel, Launch launch Tech Usay, Harlan, we we were
talking about topology. Funny word, right, you know, break it
down for us one more time. You know the process
of what that is and looking for it in a
scan tool, because I think that's something new and I
think the listeners need to hear it again.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Absolutely ron So when you connect the scan tool and
it starts to communicate, for example, as you went to
full diagnostics, it will scan every single controller in the vehicle.
But what it does now that it never did before
is it draws out a map right on the screen
(13:06):
flull size screen, and it's like looks like a float chart,
and it shows the communication of every wire on the
network for example K line, high speed CAN, low speed
SKIN depending on the vehicle and depend on what kind
of communication protocols it has. And then when it does that,
(13:28):
it actually displays the individual controllers that are on that network.
So if you think of a roadmap or a float
chart and you're going from left to right, you'll see,
for example, high speed CAN, there'll be a square box
maybe it's power control module, and then another square box
to the right of it, body control module, and other
(13:50):
square So you have all of these boxes after that
are actually in the in the order that it communicates
on the vehicle, on each of the lines, and if
there were to be a code in any of those modules,
it would show red. You tap on it. It gives
you the code you can look at the data stream
(14:10):
and enter into a diagnostics just specifically into that failed controller.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So in a sense, it's proving that cars really are
giant computer networks, right that we're saying, if you've got
a ten network computer network at work, you're seeing, you know,
computer number five and computer number eight have trouble codes.
You can go into them right from the screen with
the tap of the screen.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Absolutely got it?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Okay, good. I think that that kind of clears it up.
And I just wanted to make sure the listener's got that.
I want to talk about, you know, your highline tools
specifically Harlan. You know, Launch makes some great product, you know,
and yeah, there for the pros and they're three to
five grand. We know that, you know, street pricing depending
upon options and stuff. One has a two channel lab scope,
(14:55):
one has a four channel lab scope. There's some other
features that are built into those tools as well. Also,
you know service information and stuff. Can you talk about
that real quick?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, absolutely so. So we have the the talk link
and these are on our opper end tools we have
and our top model is the exports and what we
call the Throttle three and what we now have is
four channel lobscope and our top model and the two
channel and the one below. Because lab scopes are you know,
(15:27):
not not nice to have these days are a mustang,
especially as we move into EED vehicles. And then and
then when you're uh, when you have a code and
you need help, and let's say you need something beyond
your repeer information system that you may currently be using.
We have a code fixed feature. Uh. That's that's in
(15:50):
the tool. That's a subscription based You just tap on
it and it will take you to like likely fixes
for the specific code. And also you're making model of
the vehicles selected.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So it's looking at common pattern failures and yeah, you
know what the industry is repairing. That's kind of neat, Harlan.
I like that talk about the EV future. We've only
got a couple of minutes left. You know, is there
a scan tool for EV EV vehicles coming out? Are
we going to need that?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah? Actually, actually there is. You know, EV is a
is a subject we're looking at hard at. I mean, look,
I mean I'm just going to ensure some opinions here
on EV. I mean, if you take a look at
EV in twenty twenty there was two percent of of
car sales and twenty twenty one was five point six percent,
(16:38):
so it is definitely growing. But but but you know
the vehicles and operation. Last year we're one and a
half percent of the total vehicle population, so it's still
quite low. Although ice vehicles, which is in total combustion engines,
actually did decline about one percent in twenty twenty two,
(16:59):
it's still it will be still a long ways before
it ends up as a regular piece to be repaired
in the aftermarketer or peer shop. But having said that,
Launch is well prepared for those shops that may end
up with one by having adopt kits and add on
features to their existing scan tools as well as as
(17:22):
well as other other items to be safely repair these
ev vehicles, which conclude proprietary adapters and connected for Tesla
and insallation testers to be sure that you don't get
hit the harm's way if you had insulation.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And I'm sure you could. Hey, Harlan, forty seconds or less,
I'm a di wire, I want to scan tool. I
got a thousand bucks. What am I buying? Real quick?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
You know what? But a couple of my favorites is
the Millennium ninety pro and I'll run you about three
hundred dollars, and one I had right here on my
debt is a Launch Millennium Master. It's a it's an
unbelievable tool. It's a full blone scan tool, but it
(18:10):
isn't the c I Y category and you can get
it on the internet.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
For four hundreds, gotcha, Harlan. We're gonna leave it there,
and the website is launch Tech USA dot com. I
want to thank you, Harlan. I'm running in in the
card doctor. I'll be back right after this FROMM go ahead,
(18:45):
welcome back, listeners, running any in the card doctor. I
want to again thank Harlan Siegel from Launch lunch Tech
USA dot com for taking the time.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Today to talk to us about scan tool.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Such a such an important and essential, you know, piece
of the diagnostic toolbox and just an essential piece of
mechanic do it yourself or you know at home or
in the shop. You've got to have one. It's just
that important. So let's let's get back to the phones.
Let's go over and talk to Let's go talk to
Micah from me and we haven't talked to Micah in
a while. Michael, Welcome back to the Car Doctor, Sir.
What's going on today?
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Hey, thanks for having me on Ron. You know I
wanted to talk to you. Well, let me start this way.
We met, as you know, a long time ago when
I called in when you were on a big radio
station out of New York. I don't even know if
you're still on there anymore. I had a problem with
my tire. Well, I had trouble at a local dealership.
I was in New Jersey visiting my mom. You said, well,
this is how we do it, and if you brought
it to us, this is what we do. And I
(19:36):
brought it in and we met. We became friends ever since,
developed a relationship.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It wasn't that long radio. This is our birthday week,
you know, we have to have so let's not let's
not say, let's not say it was that long ago.
We're getting older, Micah, right, we're your birthday was this
past week?
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Am I not right?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Yep? Yeah, we are exactly seven days apart, and we
are the exact same age. In fact, we might have
met when we were in high school. I think Burger
King and Park Ridge used to have a bunch of
people with their cars around there and we might have
just bumped into each other at one time or another.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So anyway back to tires.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
So anyway, I came in and we developed a kinship.
We started that relationship, and that's what the car Doctor's
about when I listened to it, And that's what you're
telling people to do, because if you don't have a
relationship with your mechanic which is the old term, or
your technician, with your dealership, with your local guy, your
car is not really going to be fixed. Right, But
(20:34):
how do you develop that kind of a relationship? I
know how I do it? How do you do it?
From your end? You meet people that you don't want
to deal with, but then you meet people fortunately like me,
who you're happy to deal with. You know, how you
work that out?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It's a fair question, and it's hard. You know, people.
I always say the best part about cars is the cars.
Sometimes the hardest part is the people. And I think,
because I guess, the way to answer that is, you know,
look at how socide has changed over the years, right,
look at it's you know, it's a little rough out there.
It's it's there's a harshness to the feel in the
in the spirit of the day, and that permeates into
(21:09):
business and all walks. I think if you're trying as
a consumer to find a repair shop, to find a
mechanic you can trust, you know, I think you have
to have some things in your head what you're looking for,
because I think too many people are stuck on you know,
it's price. It's price. It's price, it's price. It's not
always price. You know, you can go buy a cheap
steak somewhere, but it's hard to digest. And the same
(21:31):
thing can be said about auto repair. And you've got
to have that list in your head. What are you
looking for? Are you looking for accuracy obviously? Are you
looking for honesty? Absolutely, But you've also got to start
to look beyond that those two things in price. You've
got to look at the shop. You know, if you
walk into a repair shop and your feet stick to
(21:53):
the floor and they've got nuty pin ups in the office,
that's probably not the kind of thing you're looking for
in this day and age. It's you know, that's oarchaic,
that's old school. I think, Mike, going to answer your question,
I think the reason people don't build relationships. Maybe they
don't know how to, but I think they set themselves
up for failure because they approach it the way they
(22:15):
approached it thirty years ago. And the business has changed.
The business has changed in the thirty seconds it took
me to make this explanation.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And you know that's very true. You know it's very true.
And I think what you said is very important. And
our society has changed. And so often we are numbers
even when we go you're the car doctor. But when
I go to oftentimes my regular doctor or I'm going
to a specialist, I'm not Micah, I'm not even necessarily
(22:43):
mister so and so. I'm just some guy that's going
to be there for ten minutes and you know, and
he's going to look at a chart and they're going
to say do this, this and this and send me out.
And I'm not having anybody look at me holistically. If
I can't get a doctor to look at me holistically,
how can I get somebody to look at my car holistically?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Well, And I think you have to do that. I
think that's an important piece of the puzzle. We had
a car this week twenty sixteen. Suburban. You know, it's
funny you put it that way, MIKEA. It brought this
customer to mind. And I know Brian from the gym
that I go to and we've worked out together more
than a few times over the past five six years.
And he just recently purchased a twenty sixteen suburban with
(23:24):
two hundred and thirteen thousand miles on it from a
cousin out in Michigan. And he brought me the vehicle
and it's got a check engine light on and it's
got a couple of issues, and we talked about it. Brian,
what are you expecting to get out of this vehicle?
Because you know, it's easy to fix the car, but
it's harder to match customer expectations. And I think that's
(23:44):
what you have to look for. That's important to me.
I think it's important to me, it's got to be
important to them. And I think that's what people need
to sit down again back to that and make that list.
What are you looking for? What's important? You know, if
you're looking for the cheapest guy on the block, they
you can't you can't circumvent the rest of the list
because cheap doesn't mean good. Cheap means cheap. And you know,
(24:09):
define cheap. Back to Brian, Brian's suburban needs about two
thousand dollars worth of work just to get started to
begin the You know, we know it needs spark plugs,
we know it needs a fuel system cleaning. We know
it needs rear breaks, we know it needs drive train fluids,
and we can do those things. But as I said
to him, you know, Brian, I don't know. At one
(24:30):
point it had a catalytic converter fault code. It doesn't
have that now. You know, he was showing me printouts
over the past year what his cousin had gotten from
the dealership that they were taking it to. I don't
know if the cats are going to survive. I don't
know if the cats are in good shape. I can
just tell you what's broken now. And my point is,
to me, that's being holistic. I'm looking at the car.
I asked him, how is he going to use it?
(24:51):
I asked him, what does he expect for a you know, longevity.
I mean, it's two hundred thousand miles. You know, it's
a great car if you if you want to put
an engine in its I told him, I said, it's
got a good foundation. It's got good bones, but you know,
is he ready to do that? And I, you know, Micah,
I think that's where you and I connect because you
and I talk about this a lot when we chat about,
(25:12):
you know, meeting customer expectations. Sometimes auto repair isn't about
fixing the vehicle. It's managing expectations. It's what do people
expect And that's I think what helps build the relationship.
How you doing it now, Micah, because you're up in
Maine right we haven't seen each other physically in more
than a few years. How are you building relationships with
(25:33):
your new guy.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
My new guy happened to be the dealership, and they
knew I was very careful when I was buying the car,
and they knew what I wanted in it. And I
wanted to meet the service people before I bought the car.
So I went in and I talked to them, and
I asked them about how they keep it and how
they maintain it and how I'm going to be a
low mileage customer. But I want to get everything done
that needs to be done. Like you say, if it's wet,
(25:55):
change it, you know, if it needs lubrication, lubricate it.
And I explain that to them, and that holistic treatment.
It sort of goes back and forth in the relationship.
They learned to respect me in terms of me taking
care of my car, and they can see that I do.
It's clean, it's clean inside and out. They know that
I come in for my service all the time. They
(26:16):
know if there's a problem, if my check engine light
goes on, I'm calling them and I want to get
it done right away. And so they take care of
me knowing that I'm going to take care of my
car so that they have a car that they can
service easily, and they tell me who they use for
additional service. I want. I want to you know, to
twenty fifteen, and I want to keep it forever. So
(26:36):
they told me what to do to keep it forever,
and so I do some of those things. I use
rust Check. It's not New Hampshire Oil, but it's a
good product. They told me to go and get it.
They told me that ceramic coding would be a good idea.
I end up going to the guy where my service
writer goes found him on my own, but he respected
me for that because I found him. It's that kind
of thing that goes back and forth and there's more too,
(26:59):
and I guess I can go into that. If you
want to hear.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
About it, well tell you what, Michael, let me pull
over and take a pause. What I want to hear about.
I want to hear about, you know, the more. But
I also want to know what brought you to them
when we come back. All right, stay on the phone.
Let's let's pull it on the other side of this.
What brought you to them? Why them and not the
other guy? You know, was there an attraction? Was there
something there that you know when you walked in, you
knew that that wasn't the right place for you, and
(27:22):
this was I'm running any in the Card Doctor. We've
got Micah from Maine, my main man, on the phone,
and we'll both be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Don't go away, hey.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
We're back running any of the Card Doctor. We've sort
of got a mini interview going on here. We're talking
to Micah from Maine about automotive relationships, how to find
that mechanic and you know, how to maintain that relationship
and make it a good one. And I want to
open this part of the conversation Micah with I remember,
you know, when I was on in New York when
we when we had that big major radio station New York,
and I would drive into the city all the time
(28:03):
and I would ride past garages, and you know, some
of the garages in New York were dingy and dark,
and I said, gee, how do they handle servicing the cars?
And you know, they weren't clean, and they weren't organized,
and all the things that I wouldn't want a garage
to be if I was looking for a mechanic. What
made you choose where you.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Chose, Well, it happens to be the dealership where I
bought the car, and it's one of the larger super
dealerships in the state. But again I looked around, and
I looked at the service area. I looked where the
service writers are anyway where you drive the car in,
and that was clean. And I asked for a tour
of the garage and I got to walk through it.
And I walked in and walking through it a few times.
(28:41):
And sometimes I don't want to talk to the service writer.
I want to talk to the actual technicians and working
on the car. And they allow me to do that,
and it makes a big difference. It makes a big
difference because they know that I care, and in fact,
they know that I care because I know their names.
It's a huge dealership and they have I don't know,
six or eight different serris, and then there's three different
service managers. Well, I don't want of the service managers
(29:04):
and name. There are two service writers that I work
with all the time, and they're dealing with hundreds of
customers a day sometimes, but I want them to know
who I am and I want them to know that
I care. So when I go in, I always and
I'm not bribing them. I want they work hard. They're
dealing with all sorts of different people. I'll bring in
cookies or I'll bring in brownies. I'll stop at the
bakery or the donut chop before I go in every time,
(29:25):
and I make sure that they know that I brought
it in for them. I tell the service director and
I walk out and talk to the technicians and working
on my car to make sure that they know. You know,
they get a cookie or a brownie or whatever, because
I care about them as people, because I want them
to care about me.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
You know, Michael, You're You're an upbeat kind of guy.
I know that about you, and I think everybody knows
that about your listening to you here on radio today.
What is it you know you walk into a repair shop?
What was your turn off? What was the dealership your
first choice when you moved to Maine or were there
other places you went? And why didn't it work out?
Speaker 5 (29:58):
No? I went to another place. It was a local place,
and he was great. He was a state rep and
he owned this place for years. Harry McKenny was his name.
He's retired now and the place isn't there any longer.
But he ended up with a radio show himself, and
I heard him talking on the air like I heard
you talking, and he was great. He was able to communicate,
he was able to explain things. He took his time,
(30:20):
And so I went to the shop, and yeah, the
shop was a little older, and he had his greyhound there,
but it was clean and it was good. And he
walked me into the shop and he took me on
a tour, and so I went and I stayed with
them for a long time till it's sold out to
a big corporation and it ended up becoming a chain.
And I just didn't quite trust him. But it was
an old timey kind of main shop where Terry would
(30:42):
say to me, you know, Mike, it's gonna need this.
We could do it right now, but I don't think
you need it right now. You're in here often enough.
Let me keep a watch on it and we'll change
it when it needs to change out. Let's save you
a little money right now. And I trust that and
I appreciate that, and that's what my people do now too.
And you know, I want to have a guy like
you who can tell me, yeah, we can fix it,
(31:02):
and yeah it's worth fixing it, or it might get
to the point where you're going to tell me like
you always say what color right? Because I need to
trust you to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You know it's it's and I think I think that's
a very big part of the automotive equation and relationship today.
You know, you've you've got to be ready as a technician,
as a shop owner, as a service writer. Tell the customer, hey,
it's time to play what color? And you know and
to get to what color? What's the first question before
what color? Micro Let's see if you've really been listening,
if you remember, what's the first question we asked before
(31:31):
what color? We ask what if right? You know, what
if this doesn't work or what if this happens? Or
like Brian with the suburban, I'll go back to him.
You know, Brian already got the you know, Brian, what
if this doesn't work? Are you ready to put an
engine in the truck? He didn't give me that answer yet.
I'm waiting for that, all right, because we're we're going
to be back on it next week. And when we do,
he'll give me the answer to what if? Because if
(31:53):
the answer to what if this doesn't work? Would he
put an engine in it? Is he comfortable doing that
two thousand dollars worth of work on a gamble on
a two hundred thousand mile, eight year old vehicle, that's fine.
But if he's expecting it to work for two grand,
which he isn't, I already know that. You know, you
got to give people the option, all right, And that's
and that's I think that's all part of it, you know, Mike,
(32:15):
get to go back to the beginning, right, what what
do we look for how to find a good mechanic?
Obviously it's knowledge, Obviously, it's competency, Obviously, it's you know,
and then it becomes a whole lot of things. It's timely,
it's it's bedside manner, it's it's accuracy, it's cost, it's accommodation,
it's what everybody's looking for. I often say in the shop,
(32:37):
how many places are that they're going to get a
cheeseburger where you live up in Maine.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Micah, Oh god, you know hundreds? Right?
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And there's they're they're all varied in price, quality, consistency
in the way they're delivered, right.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Absolutely, And and you know, I can go to McDonald's
and I can spend what is it, two dollars on
a double cheeseburger, or I can go out someplace really nice,
right and get a really nice cheeseburger and nice fear
and spend it to twenty five dollars. But I know
I'm getting a good cheeseburger that way.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
And there's probably a few places you drive by and
you say, how could anybody eat there? And I think
that's kind of how auto repair is, right. There are
still some places people I drive by and I go,
how could anybody get their car fixed? But yet they
have cars. So you know, the bottom line is everybody
listening in the sounds of our voice today, you've got
to find something that makes sense to you, something you're
(33:25):
looking for, and find that comfort zone and utilize that
comfort zone. And I think that's the best answer I
can give you, Mike, and I can give all the
rest of the listeners today. So you know, once again,
that's it. It's it's it's that individuality, it's what you're
looking for. Micah. It's been a pleasure, kiddo. Always fun
talking to you, and I appreciate you as we turn
(33:45):
this into a mini interview. You're famous today. You'll be
all over the country and all over the podcast later
on this afternoon, so you know, again, have a hack
you so much for You're very welcome, Michah. You have
a good birthday and we'll talk again. Let's not make
it another year before we talk, all right.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
You too, Let's have take together next year.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Next year. Promise I'm running any of the Car Doctor.
I'll be back right after this. Don't go away, angler
(34:22):
back running any of the Car Doctor at your service.
Thanks for joining me this hour.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I you know, we had a good time. I had
a good time.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Harlan had some great points about scan tools as always
as he always does right and some interesting thoughts there
that you know, you've got to have a scan tool.
I appreciated Micah coming in, you know that was that
became a phone call, became an interview. That seems to
happen sometimes when we get some good calls and some
good callers. And I appreciate Mike Hah spending some time
with us off the cuff like that. It was some
(34:51):
good points. You know, it's hard finding a mechanic, and
I've always said I think ought to repair to me
if you don't know, if I now all about the relationship,
and I know not every part of the country is
like that. I know it's difficult. I know there are
challenges out there, but I think the most important thing
is know what you're looking for. It's not just about price.
(35:13):
I say that all the time. It's got to be
more about what you're looking for. Do you get it
from that mechanic. I'm on an eating in the car
doctor reminding you good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
See
Ron Anian, I like doing this because it makes Danny crazy.
My mechanic. I got out my little two ounce bullpeen hammer.
I said, hey, you want to see something neat? I said,
I know what's wrong with this car? He goes, really
does the ben fuse box? He says, how can you
prove it? I took the two hounds bullpen. I tapped
it right where the connector is. Car shut off?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Have time?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
The car doctor Tom wants me to tell you what
PMW stands for. Do you know what BMW stands for?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I don't know what about to come out of your mouth,
but I can almost get well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
BMW stands for a variety of things. The most common
is Bavarian money waster.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, the Car Doctor.
Since nineteen ninety one, this is where car owners the
world overturned to for their definitive opinion on automotive repair.
If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
The phone and call in.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The garage doors are open.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But I am here to take your calls. At eight
five five five six ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hundred and now he touched this hee running.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We're going to start today with a man that really
needs no introduction. He's been here before. I consider him
a personal friend. Our relationship has grown as many doing
the in any industry, especially the automotive one. He's Harlan Siegel.
Harlan has been around this industry and helped so many
companies and help them in their scan tool development. He's
sort of like the scan tool godfather. I guess we
(01:23):
could call him. And he's been around a while. I
think he went to the horse track races with Henry
Ford when he was building the Model A. Probably not right, Harlan,
let me get you in here. Probably not that long.
But you've been around a while doing this, right.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just a little bit after.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The model A little bit after a little bit after
the Model A. But seriously, how long you've been in
scan tools, Harlan tell the.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Listeners over over forty years? Right? Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A lot of knowledge there, brother, Yeah, you know, and
you've been with You've been with all the major companies.
You're currently with Launch launch Tech USA, and you know,
we wanted to have an informal chat. I'm glad I
to pin it down because we want to have an
informal chat about scan tools. You know, we can't talk
enough about scan tools. It's it's it's it's an ever growing,
ever evolving conversation.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You know, one of the conversations that I always have
here on the show is, Hey, Ron, I need a
scan tool.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
What should I.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Look for and what features? And you and I we've
had that conversation here.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
It's it's it's be We're kind of beyond that. Like
if I said to you, Harlan, could you imagine a
shop and just answer this one. You know, could you
imagine a shop trying to fix a car today without
a scan tool, what would your reaction be?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
It would be It'd be impossible. It'd be the same
thing is uh is not is not having a you know,
a ten milimeter socket.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, but Harlan, all I do is oil changes. Do
I really need a scan tool to do oil changes
on cars?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Absolutely? You got to You got to put out that
reset light.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Right, you got to put out the reset light. So
there's nothing simple, you know. It's it's it's technology is
making us pay the price and and and pay the
freight and for that reas you know, we look at
a scan tool and for everybody out there that may
not know a scan tool. It's sort of like when
you go to the doctor. It's a tablet that plugs
into these There's a connector under the dashboard currently, a
(03:11):
sixteen pin trapezoid looking piece that you know has been
there since nineteen ninety five and six, and it is
the life link to deciphering all the information the car
computer has. Does a scan tool evolve? Harlan? I mean,
I know the software changes, right, you know, the manufacturer
(03:33):
comes out with and they'll add a different module for
air conditioning or a different module for tire pressure sensors.
That software stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Do you know, talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
The hardware a little bit. What sort of hardware does
the current generation scan tool have? And what do you
see for the future.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, that's a great question, Ron, And and look, I
mean the fact of the matter is, you know, if
I had this conversation, you know, some years back, uh,
you know, there'd be competitive advantages amongst the manufacturers out there.
One graphs, eight parameters, one graphs twelve ones at collar
ones are black and white, you know, all that kind
(04:13):
of stuff. And then then it moved to who has
a bigger screen and who has a bigger process or uh,
to the point where a lot of these tools are
mature and the benefits lie in software and support and
and other things down the road that the scame tool
may be able to do. But to answer your question,
(04:34):
so so yes, all of it matters, and in the
processing power simply allows for a faster response. Uh, you know,
be able to move around the tool from module to
module much more quicker than if you had a slower one,
and be able to be prepared with more complex software
as it gets installed.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know what what the listeners should keep in mind
if they're considering scan tool purchasing and correct me if
I'm wrong, Harlan. But you know, let's say you're working
on a fuel trim problem, right, You're trying to diagnose
a P zero one, seven to one, and you know
you're you're in year Make model. You're not using OBD two.
You're in year Make model, and you're looking at, you know,
your Toyota Camri fuel trim and you've got all the
(05:19):
PIDs up in that grouping that could be depending on
depending upon the tool and how the manufacturer allows it,
that you could be looking at forty PIDs. Forty PIDs
is a lot of information.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Right, and it's going to absolutely and it's going.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
To slow down the processor. So sometimes I say to
people when we're buying a scan tool, you know, you're
buying the software, you're buying a lot, but you've got
to look at the hardware. You've got to look at
the processor, how fast is it, what brand processor is it?
And you know what's that whole scan tool platform based on.
You know, because you're going to take that that P
zero one seven one diagnosis and you know it's a
(05:56):
four cylinder, so you're going to look at long term
fuel trim bank one, short term fuel trim bank one.
You might look at O two sensors and graph them
as you as you correctly pointed out, and you might
look at air fuel ratio sensors and cool and take
you know, maybe six to eight PIDs and that speeds
things up. But one of the neat things that a
scan tool does is every time you plug in it polls. Polls.
(06:21):
I think you're familiar with that term, right, Harlan, You
know what I'm talking about that absolutely talk about polling
and how does that affect the scan tool and the
ability for the person to you know, fix the car quickly.
Is what I'm trying to get through. Polling is a
big It's something that happens we don't even realize it's happening.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, you know the whole thing with scan tools right now.
And then the scenario that you pointed out, and what
we call is recording all of the data all of
the time, so you can always reflect back in your
research of the pits for not what just happened at
the moment, but what had happened maybe fifteen seconds prior
(07:01):
thirty seconds prior before the event. When we say event,
we meaning the driver ability to hip hop or whatever
happened to the vehicle or after the event.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And the other.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Piece with that data buffering, as we call it, is
you're able to look at related bits to that because
sometimes in your example of fuel trim, I mean there
may be you know, something you know wrong an EMBAC
system that's causing that fuel trim to be on a
(07:33):
line and it's a little bit indirectly related. But if
you're not looking at all the perimeters and recording all
of the data all of the time, there's a good
chance you will miss it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And at that point you'll ruin your whole diagnosis and
go down the wrong path.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So when you at launch design a scan tool, you know,
you create the next best thing, as you guys have
done so often. You know, what do you consider?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Do you do?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You look at groupings and the ability to move software
around and bring up select PIDs and you know, can
you talk about that process a little bit. We don't
want to take any trade secrets, but you know what
goes into the thinking to develop that tool properly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Well, it's funny that I asked, because there is something
that we are working on right now. I can't share
it exactly, but it's along that line. So when you're
looking at how can a technician or even a diry person,
you know, how can you benefit from the next technology?
You know, so you've got the cool hardware, you've got
(08:40):
the cool software. And when I say software, generally most
people refer to coverage that the scandal has. But what
what can you do with that? Like? How can it
help me out? And that's where we're trying to polish up,
So being ahead of the curve and then taking advantage
of the communications speeds of which the vehicle communicates and
(09:03):
the horse power of the tool itself. But you have
you had pointed out before, which shows itself when you're
trying to you know, do multiple graphing. So when we're
looking to developed something, for example, I don't give me
something that just recently came out right now on our
upper end product, which which which we do a topology report,
(09:23):
which means that as when when you hook up to
the vehicle, it scans all of the modules but pictorially
displays the communication and block diagram form of each controller,
the name of the controller, the result of the communication
in any boats found, as well as the communication network
(09:45):
it's on. For example, if you had five controllers on
one can bus that say the high high speed can bust,
it will it will be like a series one diagram
and show you all along those those lines. And what
we recently just introduce is we're able to scan a
multiple high speed control is at the same time, even
(10:08):
though they are on different networks.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So you're telling me, I walk up to a late
model anything or whatever, you know, a twenty fifteen Toyota Camri.
We'll stay with Toyota. That's where we started, right, I
walk up to a twenty fifteen Toyota Camri. I'm gonna
plug in my launch scan tool, and it's topology. It's
gonna show me on the on the on one of
the screens as I'm going in. If there's fourteen different
(10:33):
modules on all the data buses online on that vehicle,
I'm going to see all fourteen and they're going to
be different colors showing me good, bad, trouble code, no
trouble code, no communication and I can I can access.
So if I see, for example, the PCM, the power
train control module has a fault code, once it's done scanning,
I can just tap on that PCM icon and go
(10:55):
right into it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Absolutely absolutely. And if it's it's on a let's say
a particular can bus and that controller is first in
line on this series can bus and you have multipole
falls in different controllers, do you be able to see
in that topology report that just like Christmas tree lights,
(11:18):
so you know that that that that that one light
out might be affecting the others that also are not lit.
But you can see where it is in the in
the communication order.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's that's kind of cool, hardle and that that sort
of safe steps. Right, You're not you're not going in
and doing a vehicle scan and then you got to
scroll down a menu, and I can see that saving
a lot of time in a repair shop environment. That's
that's crazy. Hey, listen, pull over, let's pull over to
take a pause. Sit tight. When we come back, I
want to continue this conversation about topology and what's new
(11:49):
at launch. I want to try and you talk a
little bit about the electric vehicles. You know, is there
going to be a scan tool for electric vehicles? You know?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Do we need one?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Is it? Is that part of our future consideration as
we try to repair cars. So I'm here with Harlan Siegel.
He's with launch Tech, Launch Tech USA. I'm running inading
in the car Doctor. We'll both be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Don't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
He drives that way.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
But when it comes to fixing cars, Ron has car
advice done right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Eight five five five six zero nine to nine zero zero.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Here's Ron. We are back.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Welcome back to listeners, running inading the car doctor. Hear me,
Harlan Siegel, Launch launch Tech Usay, Harlan, we we were
talking about topology. Funny word, right, you know, break it
down for us one more time. You know the process
of what that is and looking for it in a
scan tool, because I think that's something new and I
think the listeners need to hear it again.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Absolutely ron So when you connect the scan tool and
it starts to communicate, for example, as you went to
full diagnostics, it will scan every single controller in the vehicle.
But what it does now that it never did before
is it draws out a map right on the screen
(13:06):
flull size screen, and it's like looks like a float chart,
and it shows the communication of every wire on the
network for example K line, high speed CAN, low speed
SKIN depending on the vehicle and depend on what kind
of communication protocols it has. And then when it does that,
(13:28):
it actually displays the individual controllers that are on that network.
So if you think of a roadmap or a float
chart and you're going from left to right, you'll see,
for example, high speed CAN, there'll be a square box
maybe it's power control module, and then another square box
to the right of it, body control module, and other
(13:50):
square So you have all of these boxes after that
are actually in the in the order that it communicates
on the vehicle, on each of the lines, and if
there were to be a code in any of those modules,
it would show red. You tap on it. It gives
you the code you can look at the data stream
(14:10):
and enter into a diagnostics just specifically into that failed controller.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So in a sense, it's proving that cars really are
giant computer networks, right that we're saying, if you've got
a ten network computer network at work, you're seeing, you know,
computer number five and computer number eight have trouble codes.
You can go into them right from the screen with
the tap of the screen.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Absolutely got it?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Okay, good. I think that that kind of clears it up.
And I just wanted to make sure the listener's got that.
I want to talk about, you know, your highline tools
specifically Harlan. You know, Launch makes some great product, you know,
and yeah, there for the pros and they're three to
five grand. We know that, you know, street pricing depending
upon options and stuff. One has a two channel lab scope,
(14:55):
one has a four channel lab scope. There's some other
features that are built into those tools as well. Also,
you know service information and stuff. Can you talk about
that real quick?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, absolutely so. So we have the the talk link
and these are on our opper end tools we have
and our top model is the exports and what we
call the Throttle three and what we now have is
four channel lobscope and our top model and the two
channel and the one below. Because lab scopes are you know,
(15:27):
not not nice to have these days are a mustang,
especially as we move into EED vehicles. And then and
then when you're uh, when you have a code and
you need help, and let's say you need something beyond
your repeer information system that you may currently be using.
We have a code fixed feature. Uh. That's that's in
(15:50):
the tool. That's a subscription based You just tap on
it and it will take you to like likely fixes
for the specific code. And also you're making model of
the vehicles selected.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So it's looking at common pattern failures and yeah, you
know what the industry is repairing. That's kind of neat, Harlan.
I like that talk about the EV future. We've only
got a couple of minutes left. You know, is there
a scan tool for EV EV vehicles coming out? Are
we going to need that?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah? Actually, actually there is. You know, EV is a
is a subject we're looking at hard at. I mean, look,
I mean I'm just going to ensure some opinions here
on EV. I mean, if you take a look at
EV in twenty twenty there was two percent of of
car sales and twenty twenty one was five point six percent,
(16:38):
so it is definitely growing. But but but you know
the vehicles and operation. Last year we're one and a
half percent of the total vehicle population, so it's still
quite low. Although ice vehicles, which is in total combustion engines,
actually did decline about one percent in twenty twenty two,
(16:59):
it's still it will be still a long ways before
it ends up as a regular piece to be repaired
in the aftermarketer or peer shop. But having said that,
Launch is well prepared for those shops that may end
up with one by having adopt kits and add on
features to their existing scan tools as well as as
(17:22):
well as other other items to be safely repair these
ev vehicles, which conclude proprietary adapters and connected for Tesla
and insallation testers to be sure that you don't get
hit the harm's way if you had insulation.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And I'm sure you could. Hey, Harlan, forty seconds or less,
I'm a di wire, I want to scan tool. I
got a thousand bucks. What am I buying? Real quick?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
You know what? But a couple of my favorites is
the Millennium ninety pro and I'll run you about three
hundred dollars, and one I had right here on my
debt is a Launch Millennium Master. It's a it's an
unbelievable tool. It's a full blone scan tool, but it
(18:10):
isn't the c I Y category and you can get
it on the internet.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
For four hundreds, gotcha, Harlan. We're gonna leave it there,
and the website is launch Tech USA dot com. I
want to thank you, Harlan. I'm running in in the
card doctor. I'll be back right after this FROMM go ahead,
(18:45):
welcome back, listeners, running any in the card doctor. I
want to again thank Harlan Siegel from Launch lunch Tech
USA dot com for taking the time.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Today to talk to us about scan tool.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Such a such an important and essential, you know, piece
of the diagnostic toolbox and just an essential piece of
mechanic do it yourself or you know at home or
in the shop. You've got to have one. It's just
that important. So let's let's get back to the phones.
Let's go over and talk to Let's go talk to
Micah from me and we haven't talked to Micah in
a while. Michael, Welcome back to the Car Doctor, Sir.
What's going on today?
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Hey, thanks for having me on Ron. You know I
wanted to talk to you. Well, let me start this way.
We met, as you know, a long time ago when
I called in when you were on a big radio
station out of New York. I don't even know if
you're still on there anymore. I had a problem with
my tire. Well, I had trouble at a local dealership.
I was in New Jersey visiting my mom. You said, well,
this is how we do it, and if you brought
it to us, this is what we do. And I
(19:36):
brought it in and we met. We became friends ever since,
developed a relationship.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It wasn't that long radio. This is our birthday week,
you know, we have to have so let's not let's
not say, let's not say it was that long ago.
We're getting older, Micah, right, we're your birthday was this
past week?
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Am I not right?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Yep? Yeah, we are exactly seven days apart, and we
are the exact same age. In fact, we might have
met when we were in high school. I think Burger
King and Park Ridge used to have a bunch of
people with their cars around there and we might have
just bumped into each other at one time or another.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So anyway back to tires.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
So anyway, I came in and we developed a kinship.
We started that relationship, and that's what the car Doctor's
about when I listened to it, And that's what you're
telling people to do, because if you don't have a
relationship with your mechanic which is the old term, or
your technician, with your dealership, with your local guy, your
car is not really going to be fixed. Right, But
(20:34):
how do you develop that kind of a relationship? I
know how I do it? How do you do it?
From your end? You meet people that you don't want
to deal with, but then you meet people fortunately like me,
who you're happy to deal with. You know, how you
work that out?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It's a fair question, and it's hard. You know, people.
I always say the best part about cars is the cars.
Sometimes the hardest part is the people. And I think,
because I guess, the way to answer that is, you know,
look at how socide has changed over the years, right,
look at it's you know, it's a little rough out there.
It's it's there's a harshness to the feel in the
in the spirit of the day, and that permeates into
(21:09):
business and all walks. I think if you're trying as
a consumer to find a repair shop, to find a
mechanic you can trust, you know, I think you have
to have some things in your head what you're looking for,
because I think too many people are stuck on you know,
it's price. It's price. It's price, it's price. It's not
always price. You know, you can go buy a cheap
steak somewhere, but it's hard to digest. And the same
(21:31):
thing can be said about auto repair. And you've got
to have that list in your head. What are you
looking for? Are you looking for accuracy obviously? Are you
looking for honesty? Absolutely, But you've also got to start
to look beyond that those two things in price. You've
got to look at the shop. You know, if you
walk into a repair shop and your feet stick to
(21:53):
the floor and they've got nuty pin ups in the office,
that's probably not the kind of thing you're looking for
in this day and age. It's you know, that's oarchaic,
that's old school. I think, Mike, going to answer your question,
I think the reason people don't build relationships. Maybe they
don't know how to, but I think they set themselves
up for failure because they approach it the way they
(22:15):
approached it thirty years ago. And the business has changed.
The business has changed in the thirty seconds it took
me to make this explanation.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And you know that's very true. You know it's very true.
And I think what you said is very important. And
our society has changed. And so often we are numbers
even when we go you're the car doctor. But when
I go to oftentimes my regular doctor or I'm going
to a specialist, I'm not Micah, I'm not even necessarily
(22:43):
mister so and so. I'm just some guy that's going
to be there for ten minutes and you know, and
he's going to look at a chart and they're going
to say do this, this and this and send me out.
And I'm not having anybody look at me holistically. If
I can't get a doctor to look at me holistically,
how can I get somebody to look at my car holistically?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Well, And I think you have to do that. I
think that's an important piece of the puzzle. We had
a car this week twenty sixteen. Suburban. You know, it's
funny you put it that way, MIKEA. It brought this
customer to mind. And I know Brian from the gym
that I go to and we've worked out together more
than a few times over the past five six years.
And he just recently purchased a twenty sixteen suburban with
(23:24):
two hundred and thirteen thousand miles on it from a
cousin out in Michigan. And he brought me the vehicle
and it's got a check engine light on and it's
got a couple of issues, and we talked about it. Brian,
what are you expecting to get out of this vehicle?
Because you know, it's easy to fix the car, but
it's harder to match customer expectations. And I think that's
(23:44):
what you have to look for. That's important to me.
I think it's important to me, it's got to be
important to them. And I think that's what people need
to sit down again back to that and make that list.
What are you looking for? What's important? You know, if
you're looking for the cheapest guy on the block, they
you can't you can't circumvent the rest of the list
because cheap doesn't mean good. Cheap means cheap. And you know,
(24:09):
define cheap. Back to Brian, Brian's suburban needs about two
thousand dollars worth of work just to get started to
begin the You know, we know it needs spark plugs,
we know it needs a fuel system cleaning. We know
it needs rear breaks, we know it needs drive train fluids,
and we can do those things. But as I said
to him, you know, Brian, I don't know. At one
(24:30):
point it had a catalytic converter fault code. It doesn't
have that now. You know, he was showing me printouts
over the past year what his cousin had gotten from
the dealership that they were taking it to. I don't
know if the cats are going to survive. I don't
know if the cats are in good shape. I can
just tell you what's broken now. And my point is,
to me, that's being holistic. I'm looking at the car.
I asked him, how is he going to use it?
(24:51):
I asked him, what does he expect for a you know, longevity.
I mean, it's two hundred thousand miles. You know, it's
a great car if you if you want to put
an engine in its I told him, I said, it's
got a good foundation. It's got good bones, but you know,
is he ready to do that? And I, you know, Micah,
I think that's where you and I connect because you
and I talk about this a lot when we chat about,
(25:12):
you know, meeting customer expectations. Sometimes auto repair isn't about
fixing the vehicle. It's managing expectations. It's what do people
expect And that's I think what helps build the relationship.
How you doing it now, Micah, because you're up in
Maine right we haven't seen each other physically in more
than a few years. How are you building relationships with
(25:33):
your new guy.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
My new guy happened to be the dealership, and they
knew I was very careful when I was buying the car,
and they knew what I wanted in it. And I
wanted to meet the service people before I bought the car.
So I went in and I talked to them, and
I asked them about how they keep it and how
they maintain it and how I'm going to be a
low mileage customer. But I want to get everything done
that needs to be done. Like you say, if it's wet,
(25:55):
change it, you know, if it needs lubrication, lubricate it.
And I explain that to them, and that holistic treatment.
It sort of goes back and forth in the relationship.
They learned to respect me in terms of me taking
care of my car, and they can see that I do.
It's clean, it's clean inside and out. They know that
I come in for my service all the time. They
(26:16):
know if there's a problem, if my check engine light
goes on, I'm calling them and I want to get
it done right away. And so they take care of
me knowing that I'm going to take care of my
car so that they have a car that they can
service easily, and they tell me who they use for
additional service. I want. I want to you know, to
twenty fifteen, and I want to keep it forever. So
(26:36):
they told me what to do to keep it forever,
and so I do some of those things. I use
rust Check. It's not New Hampshire Oil, but it's a
good product. They told me to go and get it.
They told me that ceramic coding would be a good idea.
I end up going to the guy where my service
writer goes found him on my own, but he respected
me for that because I found him. It's that kind
of thing that goes back and forth and there's more too,
(26:59):
and I guess I can go into that. If you
want to hear.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
About it, well tell you what, Michael, let me pull
over and take a pause. What I want to hear about.
I want to hear about, you know, the more. But
I also want to know what brought you to them
when we come back. All right, stay on the phone.
Let's let's pull it on the other side of this.
What brought you to them? Why them and not the
other guy? You know, was there an attraction? Was there
something there that you know when you walked in, you
knew that that wasn't the right place for you, and
(27:22):
this was I'm running any in the Card Doctor. We've
got Micah from Maine, my main man, on the phone,
and we'll both be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Don't go away, hey.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
We're back running any of the Card Doctor. We've sort
of got a mini interview going on here. We're talking
to Micah from Maine about automotive relationships, how to find
that mechanic and you know, how to maintain that relationship
and make it a good one. And I want to
open this part of the conversation Micah with I remember,
you know, when I was on in New York when
we when we had that big major radio station New York,
and I would drive into the city all the time
(28:03):
and I would ride past garages, and you know, some
of the garages in New York were dingy and dark,
and I said, gee, how do they handle servicing the cars?
And you know, they weren't clean, and they weren't organized,
and all the things that I wouldn't want a garage
to be if I was looking for a mechanic. What
made you choose where you.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Chose, Well, it happens to be the dealership where I
bought the car, and it's one of the larger super
dealerships in the state. But again I looked around, and
I looked at the service area. I looked where the
service writers are anyway where you drive the car in,
and that was clean. And I asked for a tour
of the garage and I got to walk through it.
And I walked in and walking through it a few times.
(28:41):
And sometimes I don't want to talk to the service writer.
I want to talk to the actual technicians and working
on the car. And they allow me to do that,
and it makes a big difference. It makes a big
difference because they know that I care, and in fact,
they know that I care because I know their names.
It's a huge dealership and they have I don't know,
six or eight different serris, and then there's three different
service managers. Well, I don't want of the service managers
(29:04):
and name. There are two service writers that I work
with all the time, and they're dealing with hundreds of
customers a day sometimes, but I want them to know
who I am and I want them to know that
I care. So when I go in, I always and
I'm not bribing them. I want they work hard. They're
dealing with all sorts of different people. I'll bring in
cookies or I'll bring in brownies. I'll stop at the
bakery or the donut chop before I go in every time,
(29:25):
and I make sure that they know that I brought
it in for them. I tell the service director and
I walk out and talk to the technicians and working
on my car to make sure that they know. You know,
they get a cookie or a brownie or whatever, because
I care about them as people, because I want them
to care about me.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
You know, Michael, You're You're an upbeat kind of guy.
I know that about you, and I think everybody knows
that about your listening to you here on radio today.
What is it you know you walk into a repair shop?
What was your turn off? What was the dealership your
first choice when you moved to Maine or were there
other places you went? And why didn't it work out?
Speaker 5 (29:58):
No? I went to another place. It was a local place,
and he was great. He was a state rep and
he owned this place for years. Harry McKenny was his name.
He's retired now and the place isn't there any longer.
But he ended up with a radio show himself, and
I heard him talking on the air like I heard
you talking, and he was great. He was able to communicate,
he was able to explain things. He took his time,
(30:20):
And so I went to the shop, and yeah, the
shop was a little older, and he had his greyhound there,
but it was clean and it was good. And he
walked me into the shop and he took me on
a tour, and so I went and I stayed with
them for a long time till it's sold out to
a big corporation and it ended up becoming a chain.
And I just didn't quite trust him. But it was
an old timey kind of main shop where Terry would
(30:42):
say to me, you know, Mike, it's gonna need this.
We could do it right now, but I don't think
you need it right now. You're in here often enough.
Let me keep a watch on it and we'll change
it when it needs to change out. Let's save you
a little money right now. And I trust that and
I appreciate that, and that's what my people do now too.
And you know, I want to have a guy like
you who can tell me, yeah, we can fix it,
(31:02):
and yeah it's worth fixing it, or it might get
to the point where you're going to tell me like
you always say what color right? Because I need to
trust you to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You know it's it's and I think I think that's
a very big part of the automotive equation and relationship today.
You know, you've you've got to be ready as a technician,
as a shop owner, as a service writer. Tell the customer, hey,
it's time to play what color? And you know and
to get to what color? What's the first question before
what color? Micro Let's see if you've really been listening,
if you remember, what's the first question we asked before
(31:31):
what color? We ask what if right? You know, what
if this doesn't work or what if this happens? Or
like Brian with the suburban, I'll go back to him.
You know, Brian already got the you know, Brian, what
if this doesn't work? Are you ready to put an
engine in the truck? He didn't give me that answer yet.
I'm waiting for that, all right, because we're we're going
to be back on it next week. And when we do,
he'll give me the answer to what if? Because if
(31:53):
the answer to what if this doesn't work? Would he
put an engine in it? Is he comfortable doing that
two thousand dollars worth of work on a gamble on
a two hundred thousand mile, eight year old vehicle, that's fine.
But if he's expecting it to work for two grand,
which he isn't, I already know that. You know, you
got to give people the option, all right, And that's
and that's I think that's all part of it, you know, Mike,
(32:15):
get to go back to the beginning, right, what what
do we look for how to find a good mechanic?
Obviously it's knowledge, Obviously, it's competency, Obviously, it's you know,
and then it becomes a whole lot of things. It's timely,
it's it's bedside manner, it's it's accuracy, it's cost, it's accommodation,
it's what everybody's looking for. I often say in the shop,
(32:37):
how many places are that they're going to get a
cheeseburger where you live up in Maine.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Micah, Oh god, you know hundreds? Right?
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And there's they're they're all varied in price, quality, consistency
in the way they're delivered, right.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Absolutely, And and you know, I can go to McDonald's
and I can spend what is it, two dollars on
a double cheeseburger, or I can go out someplace really nice,
right and get a really nice cheeseburger and nice fear
and spend it to twenty five dollars. But I know
I'm getting a good cheeseburger that way.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
And there's probably a few places you drive by and
you say, how could anybody eat there? And I think
that's kind of how auto repair is, right. There are
still some places people I drive by and I go,
how could anybody get their car fixed? But yet they
have cars. So you know, the bottom line is everybody
listening in the sounds of our voice today, you've got
to find something that makes sense to you, something you're
(33:25):
looking for, and find that comfort zone and utilize that
comfort zone. And I think that's the best answer I
can give you, Mike, and I can give all the
rest of the listeners today. So you know, once again,
that's it. It's it's it's that individuality, it's what you're
looking for. Micah. It's been a pleasure, kiddo. Always fun
talking to you, and I appreciate you as we turn
(33:45):
this into a mini interview. You're famous today. You'll be
all over the country and all over the podcast later
on this afternoon, so you know, again, have a hack
you so much for You're very welcome, Michah. You have
a good birthday and we'll talk again. Let's not make
it another year before we talk, all right.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
You too, Let's have take together next year.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Next year. Promise I'm running any of the Car Doctor.
I'll be back right after this. Don't go away, angler
(34:22):
back running any of the Car Doctor at your service.
Thanks for joining me this hour.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I you know, we had a good time. I had
a good time.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Harlan had some great points about scan tools as always
as he always does right and some interesting thoughts there
that you know, you've got to have a scan tool.
I appreciated Micah coming in, you know that was that
became a phone call, became an interview. That seems to
happen sometimes when we get some good calls and some
good callers. And I appreciate Mike Hah spending some time
with us off the cuff like that. It was some
(34:51):
good points. You know, it's hard finding a mechanic, and
I've always said I think ought to repair to me
if you don't know, if I now all about the relationship,
and I know not every part of the country is
like that. I know it's difficult. I know there are
challenges out there, but I think the most important thing
is know what you're looking for. It's not just about price.
(35:13):
I say that all the time. It's got to be
more about what you're looking for. Do you get it
from that mechanic. I'm on an eating in the car
doctor reminding you good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
See
Host
Ron Ananian
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