February 14, 2025 • 43 mins
The Breakfast Club Dives Sits down With Ellen Sellers, Ione Jamison & Melissa Butler To Discuss Target Boycott; DEI Rollback, 'Buycott.' Listen For More!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is j n V, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud
We are the Breakfast Club. Laura Rosa filling in for Jess.
We got some special guests with us this morning. We
have the founder and CEO of The lip Ball, Melissa Butler. Welcome,
and we also have co founders of Rucca Roots, doctor
Ellen Rucca Sellers and I own Rucca Jamison Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Good morning having us.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
No, we you know, the.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Reason we wanted you here to day is because this
is all this conversation about Target and should folks boycott
Target because they rolled back their DEI policies. But then
there are people who say we should be doing a
buyout and supporting all the black owned products in Target,
and you all have black owned products in Target.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So we wanted to hear from you all.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
Well. Thank you absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 7 (00:49):
Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for this platform
talk to Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for
this platform. You know, I think it's very important for
brand owners to have a voice in this because every
day we are in there grinding. We have worked so
hard to get on the shelf. The shelf space is
a covenant space, right, everybody didn't get the opportunity. And
(01:13):
and for a brand to get to shelf space, it
is a huge, like a process like it does.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
It takes years, it really does. And to stay there,
it's so it's so hard too.
Speaker 7 (01:27):
And so I'm so glad that you gave us this
platform because we need our community. We need our community
to you know, galvanize around these black brands because we're
fighting a good fight too, right, So.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Let's let's let's take it back. Let's go, Let's go
to the problem.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Let's start with since you're speaking, let's talk about Rocker Roots,
what rocker Roots is, and talk about the process of
selling your productcause most people don't know, they don't understand,
like you said, they automatically think you have a product,
you put it in Walmart in your good mind, they
understand that you know it goes from one store and
then the region and then from nucial store. So break
it down to what rucker Roots is, how it started,
and how you.
Speaker 7 (01:59):
Self rugger Roots we're all natural haircare company. I own
it and I started it in twenty fifteen with the
goal of being a household brand, right, And so we
started it in professional salon, so we gave product to
you know, stylists and let them use the product.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
We had a distributor.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
Then we went to trade shows, which we met Melissa
at several trade shows, trying to get your product out there.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
So you're in front of the consumer.
Speaker 7 (02:26):
And once you get the notoriety or the once you
get enough recognition amongst some of these retailers, they come
to you and say, hey, you know, let's talk about
coming into retail. And so our first retailer was Sally's
Beauty and then Target.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
And after you get one, you get more.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
But you know, in order to stay in those retail stores,
you get audited. Basically every year you have a line review.
If you're not performing, guess what, your space is gone.
And so when we look at the boycott, I'm not
telling people not the boycott, like, that's not in my spirit,
That's not where I come from, you know. I mean,
(03:08):
boycotting is part of you know, our blood lot, right.
What I am telling people is you can't forget these
black friends that have worked so hard to get there,
because it's a long process.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And see That's why I think a buyout is good
because of what you said. If you know, these products
are sitting on the celf and Target and nobody goes
in there and buys them, then that gives them a
reason to say, you know what, get this stuff out
of here anyway.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
And and honestly, isn't that the goal? Absolutely isn't that
the goal? And that's that's what we're working. I mean,
that's the goal for them, you know, to weed us out,
to discourage us to you know, bring trauma and drama
and all the things that you know, as black women
we have we have to deal with every single day
(03:51):
anyway with.
Speaker 8 (03:53):
How okay Ellen, Ellen and I are sisters, and we're
from South Carolina, the cy Carolanian say Charlemagne, And we
come from a very big family and a very small
town where four out of ten people in our town
are unbaked or either under Bay, so they don't have
the debit cards to shop online. All they have is
(04:15):
to go into our local Walmart and get products off
the shells. So that's forty percent of our clientele that
can't shop online. Now, we're not telling you not to
shop online, because as we all know, we want you
to shop online. But you know, we come from a
small town where a lot of our clientele can't shop online.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
We wid.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
We can't even when COVID hit our hometown.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
We couldn't even have remote schools because most of the
people don't have the enemy. Yeah, so we want our
people to be able to go to the Walmart and
pick up our products and shop, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
More than anything. So throughout this process, it's been really
disappointing to feel the wrath of our own community. Like
I started the lip Bar in twenty twelve, literally making
lipstick in my kitchen because I was frustrated with the
beauty industry, it's lack of diversity, its successive amounts of chemicals.
(05:15):
But I really wanted to center black women, and I've
been doing that for twelve years, Like twelve years, I've
been standing up for black women, saying, hey, you are enough. Hey,
I am creating products for you. Hey, I'm making sure
that I am building our self esteem collectively. And so
when this happens, I want our community to know that
(05:38):
we are disappointed too, Like we're upset with Target and
Walmart and Google and all of these companies that have
shut down their dei.
Speaker 9 (05:46):
But to ask us to.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Remove our products from retail, it's unrealistic because what does
that look like for most black businesses. It looks like
a shutting down or actual businesses. So you ask, like,
how does it work to get into retail? Well, how
it works is we buy inventory upfront months in advance,
(06:10):
you almost a year, so when you think about retail,
when you think about retail, it's kind of a crazy thing,
like we buy products to sit on shelf just in
case you want it, which means that we are we
are having to outlay capital at the forefront for thousands,
(06:35):
hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of units so
that if you go into your local Target, Walmart, CBS,
it is available for you.
Speaker 10 (06:49):
M amount of it.
Speaker 11 (06:51):
Depends on it depends on how many doors. Some stores
do have that it's a large amount, and they don't
give you money.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
To and they don't give you money to up it,
and so you have have to buy that inventory, but
you don't get paid on that inventory for sometimes eight months,
you know a year, depending on when you set and
then once they place the order, you can have terms
that are net sixty ninety, so like black owned brands
are waiting on their finances to come through. We can't
(07:19):
just pull our products from Target. Were wearing contracts with them.
We are for the most part dependent on retailers to
ensure that we have the visibility and to make sure
that we have the urns. Now, some people will say like, oh, well,
just you know, make sure they shop at your dot
com y'all. In twenty twenty, when black people when it
(07:41):
was a trend to shop black businesses, we all benefited. Yeah,
we all benefited.
Speaker 9 (07:46):
It felt good.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We were living in the money. We hire more people,
we bought more inventory, and then guess what, it wasn't
in vogue to shop black anymore. So I want us
to remember the buying power of black businesses. Sure, if
you want a boycott, boycott, because there is so much
power in our dollars. But at the end of the day,
(08:07):
we have to be intentional about our shopping to make
sure that our dollars are going back to our communities.
Speaker 9 (08:12):
Because guess what black people hire black people like.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
My team is seventy five percent black, my team is
one hundred percent women.
Speaker 9 (08:20):
I'm investing in my community.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I gave thirty five thousand dollars in grants to black
women last year.
Speaker 9 (08:25):
So it's like, this is what black businesses are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So the minute you decide that shopping black is a trend,
it negatively impacts us. The minute you decide that you
won't shop in the stores that carry our products, it
will impact us. Now, we're not here to say you
should shop and these retailers. If you feel disrespected, you
have the ability and the right to take your dollars
wherever you are most comfortable. But to your point, don't
(08:50):
forget about us. Please do, in fact, go to our
dot com exactly.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
And honestly, if you think about the amount of money
that it's spent black people spend on beauty brands, it's
like nine point four billion dollars, right, and as a
brand founder, we get about a small percentage of that,
like two point five percent. It's spent with you know,
black brands. Think about our community and it's all that
(09:17):
nine point four billion dollars went to these black brands.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, then we we can do, and then we.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Could have our own targets.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
And so that's the thing that you know, we need
to I think that we need to you know, I
know that there's a boycott not telling people not to boycott.
I understand that, but I think we have to switch
our mindset to, Hey, you know, we haven't been, you know,
shopping fully with these black brands all along.
Speaker 9 (09:43):
How about you know.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
We blood blood, their spaces blood, you know, stop stop.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Buying any other brand and just buy black.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
The power in that, yeah, because the reality isn't you
know when all of this first started happening, I didn't
even know that Target had all of these black brands.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Oh to me, that's a.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Good thing to have the awareness, But now what do
we do with that awareness?
Speaker 11 (10:04):
And women I feel like girls who follow beauty, like
I remember when you got into Target, and I remember
being like, oh my god, Like that's so lit. Now
I can I don't have to go and like scavenger
hunt for her. So it's unfortunate when I remember when
Tabitha Brown got into Target, like we kind of celebrated
because it is the platform. But at the same time,
there is some weird stuff because like I heard, I
(10:24):
saw a report that one of the brands said that
they found out when we found out that that the.
Speaker 9 (10:30):
D all find out.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Nothing, nothing, And so now we're just on the front
lines fighting on social media, because people are are coming
at us as if we did it, as if we
created it. So no, we did not have a head up.
That was very unfortunate. But I will say, like myself,
people like Tabitha Brown, people like beef from honey Pot.
(10:56):
We have been having constant conversation with Target about the impacts,
about their responsibility in the matter, and frankly pushing them
on what they need to do next. And so just
know that just because like we are online and we're
still selling our products, that does not mean that in
the background we are not fighting the good fight within
(11:18):
the retailer. Because at the end of the day, like
I know people are upset with Target and Walmart, but
like we actually have skin in the game, Like yeah,
you need to find a new place to shop your
toilet paper, but we are actually in business with them,
so of course we're upset. We are more upset with
these retailers for blind siding us and for frankly not
(11:39):
being clear on what this actually means. Now that being said,
all of those brands, for the most part, shopped or
launched in Target before DEI was this three letter trend
word like going back to like dark and lovely. They've
been pushing and building small black owned businesses so far
(12:00):
as I know, they continue, they will continue to do that.
But the reality is we are we are witnessing an
attack of d I. We are witnessing an attack from
the government on de I. So like, how how are
we all supposed to manage that? Are we supposed to
shut down our gmails?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I ask the d get your products in there? Did
they give you the opportunity to get in there?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
No, no, no.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
We got into retail because we were a strong brand.
Now do you know some of the buyers look like
us and they appreciate, you know, representation absolutely. You know,
some of the buyers that we have met with, you know,
with some of our retailers, they are African American buyers.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
And that's so important.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
Too to make sure that you know, we, you know,
have those people in those positions so that they can
bring in brands like us and understand the importance. But
if you look at how much African Americans spend, I mean.
Speaker 8 (12:54):
The retailers are all in the money making business, right
they we spend money.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
So yeah, it's a business.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
We don't foresee are our brand's going in I mean,
you know, we don't. They want to make money, and
our consumers spend the most money.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's just facts.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
So I just really, black women spend nine times our
white counterparts on beauty products. And so obviously there's a
difference in a black woman's hair and a white woman's
hair in terms of makeup. Aside from color theory and
a brand caring enough to actually have a wide range
of colors, there's no there's no real difference. And so
(13:32):
my buying team is actually not women of color. They've
never been women of color, and so I think that
speaks to the idea that, like to your point, they're
in the money business. Like everybody here is trying to
fill a gap. Everyone is trying to figure out how
do I get more customers to shop our products. And
this is where you know, if you have a recer roots,
(13:54):
if you have a bar, and you understand that this
can bring a different customer, you have an advantage hit.
And so we all have strong businesses, we all have
strong brands, we have strong followings, and that's how we've
been able to stay in retail this long.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yes, you know, last time I got hand on your products, Melissa,
we was at the DNC convention and Governor Gretchen with,
Oh my God, give me an Angela Rai and who
else was it? Tiffany Cross? Like this game was all
products at the table.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So I am from Detroit. Detroit is a big part
of my resilience and my grit, and like she has
stood up for Michigan in a big way.
Speaker 9 (14:36):
And so she's one of.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Those people where it's like if she decided tomorrow that
she can't use the word de i anymore, I'm not
going to say, like, oh, you know, she she not
about the people, like she has shown me over the
years that she is showing up. But we love us
some big gritch.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
I want to expound on that, right because somebody told me,
and I don't know if this is true, they said
Target didn't actually roll back there initiative, just changed your name.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Is that true.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
I think that a lot of these corporations are scared
to get sued by the government, right.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
I think that's what they are nervous about.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
You know, this new administration coming in and making all
these changes and and the war on diversity, equity, inclusion,
and they're scared to get sued if they put it
out there and I know, you know, just this week,
we just we just shipped huge orders to you know,
one of our retailers.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
Really yeah, we're yeah, we just.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
But you know, that has been in the plan for
a long time, like Melissa.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Spoke to earlier. It's not like an overnight thing. But
of course they could have gone in and canceled those orders.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
They could have not sent them to us, because that
is their prerogative too, to not send the purchase orders.
But we're in the process of shipping tons of inventory
to one of these major retailers that have come out
and said that they are against the diversity equity.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Oh so they doubled down on their send us stuff.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
No, they are part of the they they have rollback
diversity equity.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
But we are getting huge purchase orders.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
The product is moving, but.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
We need the people to go into the stores and
purchase the product.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah yeah, and same same on the target front. So
like we've had conversations and we're like, what does this
mean for our brand, because like you know, it's it's
crazy to the idea of like being so outspoken on
this without going to target themselves, Like we want to
go straight to the source.
Speaker 9 (16:43):
So we're like, Yo, what's up.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Brands, and they're like, it means nothing for exactly, we
will continue to invest in your brand. And we've seen
purchase orders you know that were that were larger than usual,
but not because like they feel bad, because the products
are moving, like we're known for our lip colors, Like
we've been doing this for twelve years and we continue
(17:09):
to grow year over year, and so that retailer is
going to see that and they're going to continue to
double down.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
They're not.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
They're not just kicking all the black brands out. I
just want to be clean.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
But I wonder if that's because of the they're calling
it a bycot, because there's some people who are like, no,
I'm gonna go in these stores and I'm going to
buy all the black products. I may not buy anything else,
but I'm gonna buy a black.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Product, and we want you to do that, and we're
not telling I'm like, we're not here to tell you
where to shop.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
We're here to tell, like, ask you to shop with us.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
You know, we're not telling you oh blah, yeah, we're
not telling you not to go into Target.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Tell me the effects of what yes business exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It was something because to making Mallory was here and
she was saying that, you know, when people go to
these stores sometimes they forget like you know, they'll.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Go to get might go get the lip bardy, might
go get rug exactly to people, that's the reason that
you do it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
But people don't, you know, understand the effects of people
who are you know, have businesses in Target or Walmart
or Sam's Clubs or Costco that it effects.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So what do you tell those people?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Like so you tell them, look, we understand the boycott,
but you gotta you gotta, you gotta understand that we're
supporting so many of our community and we got to
make this happen.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Got to make this work some house, some way.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
I tell them, shop wherever you decide to shop, but
shot Black shop with us.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
We you know, we want you to.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
Buy the products wherever you feel comfortable buying them, wherever
you have access to buying them because so many people,
like our own was mentioning earlier, they only have certain
amount of stores that they can actually shop.
Speaker 8 (18:42):
If you have the luxury of boycotting and you feel
the need to boycott, then go ahead and do that.
But some people don't have that luxury, like I said,
and we have. You know, we always talk about promoting
generational wealth, promoting you know, giving back. We have a
fun of Rugger Edu Scholarship Fund where it's going on
our twelfth year where we give back scholarships to students
(19:04):
from our hometown that our first generation scholarship students. So
we want to do more of that in our community.
We want to create more generational wealth. And to know
wanted to do that, you have to continue to support
our brands because we have done everything.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Like Melissa just said, we fronted.
Speaker 8 (19:21):
We just fronted so much inventory and we want to
sell it through because we you know, if not then
we'll have these huge buybacks and that just chargebacks, and
that just really hurts our business and our brands.
Speaker 10 (19:37):
You mentioned the thing about Target just changing the name.
They did both.
Speaker 11 (19:40):
So they changed the name of their supplier Diversity team
to Supplier Engagement and then they also got rid of
their belonging at the Bullseye, which is a strategy to
include black employees, build meaningful careers and improve like experience
of black shoppers and promote black owned businesses.
Speaker 10 (19:58):
So they did both of them.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
And I know we're talking about Target, but for us
rugger Roots.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
We're in several seven different retail stores, so there's so
many other options to show.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
So we're in Target, We're in JC penny, We're.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
In Belt, We're in Sally's, We're in Amazon, We're in Walmart, Walmart, Walmart.
And if you look at you know, jcpenny and Belt,
they have doubled down on their di they are you know,
they are adamant about keeping diversity, equity.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Inclusion with you know their companies.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
And we're there too, so you know, we and our products,
you know, we're on shelf at all of those places.
And as a black owned business, if you're going to
boycott one.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Then flood flood the other.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
Our website is, I mean, we have a warehouse in
Indian Land, South Carolina where.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
We're shipping, packing, sending.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Orders out every day on our e commerce and a
lot of times I own and I are in there.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Like last week I posted on my social.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Media, I was like wrapping a past that was going
out to Walmart. Like we're still in there grinding every
single day. And so if you're gonna you know, say okay,
we're gonna not shop here, then shop elsewhere. Support the
brand elsewhere where, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I think one of the misconceptions is that if a
brand is in retail, they've already made it.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yeah, they're already They're already huge.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And it's like, just because you know, we get pressed
or because we're on the breakfast clip, that does not
mean that the brand has actually gone the distance.
Speaker 9 (21:29):
So I just want.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
People to know that by by not shopping you know,
Black Owned, no matter what the channel is, know that
you are impacting how someone is feeding their fam absolutely,
like just because the lip bar, you know, press, press
and likes do not equal dollars, Like, let's not get
get fooled by the social media hil and so people
(21:52):
are people will say like, oh, they already got it.
It's fine that they can. They can miss the dollars. No,
because we got payroll every two weeks.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
My boy, we got warehouse, we got warehouse rent, we
got rent to pay all the things.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
So oh, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (22:10):
I was gonna ask behind the scenes, though I don't
know how close a lot of you, like the Black
Owned brands were in these major retailers with this Target
walmartor whatever. But I feel like now because y'all are
kind of going through this together, has it created a
line of communication or system where you guys are figuring
out things amongst your own selves for the up and coming,
like black owned brands that will hit retail like shops.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And Yeah, I had a call actually, like pretty much
immediately after it happened, renee blew it from she did that,
she helped organize it, and my first thing was like,
y'all need to reach out to your buyers because a
lot of people are afraid.
Speaker 9 (22:46):
A lot of people were.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Like, I don't think I have the leverage to even
reach out to Target and ask them what's going on.
Speaker 10 (22:52):
Smaller brands and Target they're smaller.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But meanwhile, it's like, we've been in Target for like
eight years, so I know that I can reach out out.
And I did reach out very aggressively actually, but I'm like, no,
reach out to let them know that we are coming together.
Reach out to let them know that we are demanding
that y'all give us some responses and some meaning to
what this is. Reach out and let them know that, like,
(23:16):
we won't just stand for this. And so, like, I
do think that it is bridging the gap because typically
I think one of the issues in the black community
is that we hold things to the chest and it's
okay to be vulnerable because like, the more we are vulnerable,
the more information we get, and the more information we have,
then we can actually make better decisions. And so I
(23:37):
think it's absolutely happening, and I'm proud of the work
that a lot of the black owned businesses are doing
right now.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Can we talk more about you know, is it fair
for black owned products to receive backlash but still having
their products in Target or any of these stores that
are rolling back to.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
De No, that's no more.
Speaker 9 (23:53):
No, it's not fair because here's the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Thing, like people are complaining on Meta that is that
has rolled back their DEI, people are using their Gmail
that has rolled back their DEI, people saying that black
black owned businesses that are already small, that are already underfunded.
Black women receive less than one percent of all VC dollars,
(24:17):
and I actually think that the number went down post COVID,
Like we can't afford to do it. So what people
are asking us to do is essentially like you know,
fill our houses, closed our doors, fire our entire teams.
And it's like, are you doing that for the for
the community, Are you doing that for the struggle, like
are you quitting your job without a plan to feed
(24:38):
your family? Like until we are all like locked in
arms that this is what we're doing for the culture.
It is. It is unfair. Now we're not over here
saying you need to keep shopping at Target or Walmart
or Amazon, any of these places because they have all
decided to shut down.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
DEI.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
What we have said is like, we got my website,
they have websites. I have a store in Detroit, Like
shop wherever you choose to shop.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
That is your privative.
Speaker 8 (25:04):
Give us a little I can say that twenty five
percent of our cells come from our internet, from our
e commerce, from our website, so the other seventy five
percent is from being on the shelves.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So that's our livelihood.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
So we need you guys, you know, we need to
stay on the shelves, and we need you guys to
purchase from Walmart, Target.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
Give the black brands more more than two point five
percent of the nine point four billion dollars that it's
spent and on beauty.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
And it's easy, give us more percent.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Give us a little bit more of that you know money, right,
I mean, that's all we're asked because people people want
to buy people.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
I want us to be honest.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Like, if you go into your makeup bag, if you
go into your your linen closet, if you go into
your your actual closet, how many of those brands, Like
your fashions, how much of it is black owned?
Speaker 9 (26:04):
How much of your makeup.
Speaker 10 (26:08):
A point today different, but.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Like your your pantry, like your fashions, your hair, your makeup,
like the lip bar is constantly begging people to shop
the lip Bar over elf or over n y X. Like,
and it's not just about the lip bar. There are
lots of black owned brands you can shop.
Speaker 9 (26:28):
This is not just.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Yeah, it's about our community, about our community.
Speaker 8 (26:32):
We would love for you to go on our dot com,
but we know that only twenty five percent of our
sales come from there. I mean, we make more money
when you shop on our website. Person, you know, our
personal business website.
Speaker 10 (26:44):
So but.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Anybody who talk you reached out at all?
Speaker 10 (26:48):
Yeah, I've talked to talk about for like two weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Okay, but what did they say? Like, what do they say?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Say? Nothing?
Speaker 7 (26:55):
But you know, like our sales team with Walmart, We've
had several conversations with them, like really strong conversations and
they say the same thing. We didn't bring you in
because of diversity, equity inclusion. We brought you in because
you're a strong brand and where you know, we're going
to keep you there as long as you're performing.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
But that's the key. We have to perform.
Speaker 11 (27:15):
But do they plan to, like say more to kind
of like protect y'all alone, not protect yall because 'all
don't need them to protect.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Like they kind of like it aggravated things when it did.
Speaker 11 (27:27):
Yeah, so they don't plan on like what's the remedy
because if this was the Black Square era, that would
have been came out and I don't know, we're a
cloth or something. So now they can be silent and
no one cares and it's like whatever, But like the plan.
Speaker 10 (27:49):
Because you guys don't seem like you're leaving anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah, you can't.
Speaker 10 (27:56):
I mean, so it's a partnership.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I think that people have to continue to put pressure, honestly. So,
I mean, in my conversations with Target, they have been apologetic.
They have been clear that they are continuously investing in
small black and brown brands, Like this is literally from
like their mouths over.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
The last two weeks.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
But I'm like, listen, don't say it to me, say
it to the public, because it's the public who is upset.
It's the public who you owe something to, not just
your vendors. And so I think we have to just
continue to tell our story and demand what we want
to see.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And you know, I wonder I haven't spoken, and this
is why it's so difficult, right because I love y'all,
But then I love Denina Turners, and I love you
to meet mallories, and I understand why you feel the
way y'all feel, and understand why they feel the way
they feel. But I wondered, was there any conversations amongst y'all,
did any of the people wanting to boycott calling you
the people who have brands.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In the store.
Speaker 9 (28:52):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I talked to Roland Martin, okay, okay, and he he
was like, we got a boycott, and I said, well, oh,
we gotta do whatever we gotta do, but just make
sure that y'all are clear on having a plan to
continue to invest in and support black businesses, because it
can't be this thing where it's it's trendy to shop
(29:14):
black today and then two weeks later you know, we're
not in vogue anymore.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I mean I live with someone that's on the front line,
because yeah, my husband is on TV fighting the good
fight every single night, and we have these conversations at home,
and you know, he understands that I have a business
to promote.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
He appreciates the boycott where you.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
Know, boycott boycotting, and you know, civil rights movement is
part of our bloodline, like we're from the Deep South,
and in that I appreciate, you know, their movement because
that's how things have changed in history. But like Melissa said,
you know, it can't just be a trend to forget
(30:01):
about these black brands. And so I think it just
has to be you know, people have to look at
it in a different lens. And that's why I think
it's so important for black brands to have these conversations
with the public, like hey, you know, that's great. You
know we're If that's what you want to do, then
you know, vote with your dollar.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
What you say.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The thing is conversation, right, it's something that you said earlier.
Most time people when you see something in a store,
the automatically think you made it right.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, it's successful. You guys are rich, you guys are filter.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You guys are billionaires because they don't understand what it takes.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So without having.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
These conversations, people don't understand.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And not only that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
As a dad that goes into sallies, a lot of
times I don't know what's a black brand or what's
a regular brand. My wife to get some shampoo or
we need a new shampoo for for whatever. So when
I asked the lady at the front desk, who a
lot of times might not be black that I.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Use just for men.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
But but you need to have all these conversations where
people understand what it is because a lot of times
I don't think people actually get it because the first
thing you think of is when you see a brand
of Target, is that you guys have made it, and
it's not necessarily the truth.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
And I believe, you know, there's guys like John Bryant
who represented you know, uh, plans on what should happen.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I believe what he says.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
He says we should redirect energy towards supporting companies that
double that double down on the I and he says
we should position diversity, equity and inclusion as a business
imperative not a political.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Right, but is it realistic to do that when the
government has made it a political agenda?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
So some some.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Of the companies right and target aside, like if the
government is like we're gonna cut your funding if you
if you uphold your d what is that that company's
supposed to do? So maybe it doesn't impact costco because
maybe they're not receiving government subsidies. But for those companies
that that are, like, how how does that work? And
(32:13):
I'm really I'm really asking because I feel like we
have to be clear that it's not just the companies
that are doing this DEI pull back, it's also Trump.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
If you just don't be absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I mean it's it's because of Trump.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
But I guess you know, John O'Brien is saying that
you should reframe the narrative around diversity, equity and inclusion
as critical for economic competitiveness, innovation, and market growth, like
it impacts your bottom line, Like that's what we should
be telling these companies.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
They know that though.
Speaker 11 (32:43):
What first thing you learn in if you have a
retail background or seller's background at all, is market study.
In numbers retail stores are placed, they choose clothing that
goes into norsetrums based off who lives around that norsetrum.
Speaker 10 (32:55):
They know what people look like, how they shore, They
know all of that. It's just do they have to
care kind?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And that's what I said.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
That's why when when I when I said do there,
it's like, why would they even put out a press release?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Like why would they just put this they did?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I think they from the target perspective, they didn't put
out a press and that's why, like they still haven't
said anything because they're like, we didn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I haven't seen Walmart.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Walmart absolutely put out they said. But but they did
say what they're going to continue to do. And I
think that that is what is o to the to
the people, like instead of just saying like, okay, we're
we're killing de I be clear on what that means.
Be clear on what that means for not only your customers,
but the people who work there.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Or if you're if they're concerned about Trump and the administration,
you know, giving them, you know, lawsuits or whatever. If
they continue change the name, like do emerging brands like,
you know, change change the name, but don't eliminate you know,
these these you know these brand owners and these companies
(34:05):
that work so hard to get to the place that.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
You know, you say you're just getting rid of the DEI.
Anythink that you just don't care about black people.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Don't care about black people.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Get First of all, black people are not the biggest beneficiaries.
Speaker 8 (34:18):
Of de I.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
It's white women, it's white women, it's veterans, and it
goes so much further than just black people. It's d
I is the pumping rooms that women have when when
they're pregnant. D I is the accessible ramps for disabled people.
But I know Black people, because we are so unfortunately
(34:39):
used to being oppressed in this country, we immediately are
like they hate black people, and rightfully so. Right so
it's like, okay, well tell tell us.
Speaker 9 (34:49):
That you don't.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And I think that's what we're all waiting for from
all of these companies.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
Have this question, and I know that y'all have answered
it in different ways throughout the interview, but I just
want to be clear, what do you think is the
appropriate strategy to let these companies know that we don't
like how they drop DEI without affecting y'all's.
Speaker 7 (35:04):
Bottom line, the companies or our community both m hm.
Speaker 9 (35:10):
I think we have to keep being vocal.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a bullseye
on Target and saying we won't accept this. But I
also think that in the same vein, we have to
be intentional shoppers to ensure that we are actually voting
with our dollar. But like, keep keep putting the pressure
on Target.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Why not, We'll let bulls eye affect your business, though
what they look back and be like, you know what,
this is being too difficult with this damn bulls eye.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Not if ourselves are impacted. So like they speak green first.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Yes, exactly, Yeah, so you're performing and if you're if
you're if your products aren't just sitting there, and if
they're making money and all the things, and they're going
to keep you there, then less I can say whatever
she wants every five because all they care about is
the money.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, company and Target.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Right, Yeah, And we've been in Target since twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen, and we've grown a year over year, and like,
of course we're disappointed, but we're not gonna pull our
products from Target in this moment because it doesn't make
financial sense for us. But we will continue to put
pressure on Target and say yo, like this is not okay,
(36:30):
right go.
Speaker 10 (36:31):
Ahead, No, go ahead, you can go.
Speaker 8 (36:34):
I don't even know what I was going to ask this.
Speaker 11 (36:38):
This whole thing brings up a conversation of like how
people feel when, especially the black beauty brands begin to
like if they're bought out by non black people stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (36:48):
I remember, I think, what was it Courtney's brand or
was it.
Speaker 11 (36:51):
It was one of those brands that something like that
happened with and they got dragged for it. And when
this happened, I remember there was a thread that I
read and they were basically saying this is why we
should only sell through US, And I was like, but
what does that look like?
Speaker 10 (37:04):
How do you do that?
Speaker 11 (37:05):
I guess it's like owning your own store and detreat
versus and doing more of that versus being in the target.
How do you guys feel about that conversation of like,
you know, like even in I don't know, investors or
kind of the capitalism conversation, I.
Speaker 7 (37:18):
Think that it's important for us to remember that when
you're growing a brand and and you get to a
certain level, there's only so much that you can do,
and you have to bring in investors, and you have
to bring in different, you know, amounts of money to
scale to that global and to hit that global brand.
(37:40):
And when companies decide to sell, you know, I know
a lot of companies have stuff, but they they also
bring that money back to the community. They give so
much money. They funnel all that you know, so much,
so many scholarships and so many you know, grants.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
And everything back into the community.
Speaker 7 (37:59):
I think it's kind of unfair to put that amount
of pressure on black brands, because aren't you growing your
brand for a legacy, for economic growth in your community.
Aren't you growing your brand so that you can make
a difference, that you can leave something behind greater than
you and not the purpose.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
A billion dollars.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Like, and so in other communities, people don't give them
hell for selling their products. They get celebrated, They get celebrated,
and I think that's so unfair and and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
I don't I don't like.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
It when Rich Dennis so shame moisture. He started the
New Voices Fund to invest in black women, and some
of your favorite entrepreneurs were beneficiaries of him selling shame moisture.
So he invested in lip Bar, he invested in Sloaty Vegan,
he invested in honey Pot, he invested in Mao Organics,
(39:00):
invested in Natural Club. Like, literally, almost a lot of
the pop in black owned businesses right now came as
a result of that sale. So to your point, it's
really about what people do with the money when they sell.
And then I totally understand people being upset like, oh,
we can't have nothing, because I feel like that's how
the community feels.
Speaker 9 (39:20):
Like, you know, as soon.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
As a brand grows and we support it, they sell
to a white company or a white person. And my
question to you is like, well, who do we sell
it to? Unfortunately there are no black Procter and Gambles
or Unilevers because why because we only spend two and
a half percent of a another point four billion dollars
(39:41):
with black brands. And so if we were to pull
our dollars and even if we just only focused on
beauty and say, you know what, I can commit to
only shopping black beauty. Clothing might be.
Speaker 9 (39:54):
Harder, shoes might be harder.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You know, your pantry might be harder, but beauty is
not that hard. There are undreds of black owned beauty brands,
but we are still fighting with multinational corporations. People are
absolutely still buying the Lorels and Mabelings instead of the
lip Bars and the Dnessa Myricks, and so we would
love to shop or sell to black people. It's just
(40:18):
that that's not an option. So what do we do?
Do we not realize our generational wealth because most Black people,
our wealth is actually tied in our equity, which means
that we have to have a liquidation event.
Speaker 9 (40:31):
That's what it's called.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Liquidation event, is when you sell some of your equity
so that you can get some of the money. Yeah,
Melissa Butler of the lip Bar is a millionaire on paper,
baby on paper, which means that I need to do
something you actually get liquid So I just I want
y'all to understand how business works, especially when you fundraise.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
But that's the most difficult thing, right, You're trying to
explain business to people who don't have no business. So
I remember when they got mad at Beatrice when she
sold for what was it three eighty or something like that,
and she kept the minority stake and was still CEO.
(41:16):
And I'm just like, I was happy for her, and
it's like who she don't sell it.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
To until we get to the point where we have
you know, these people that have grown brands like you know,
Rich Dennis that can actually help invest in and buy
you know, companies and all those things. Until we grow
more of those people, until we have that status, then
(41:45):
we don't have you know, happen.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
We'll go out and support these ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Please tell them how How did they support Rucker Routes?
Speaker 7 (41:52):
How do they support the live www dot Rucker Routes
dot com. You can find us in seven different retailers
you know, shoes wear, but just support us.
Speaker 9 (42:03):
The lipbar dot com.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
If you're in Detroit, we have our own store, but
we're also Amazon, Walmart, Target, CBS, and you can follow
us on all social platforms at the lip bar.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Any final just messages for the community because y' I
don't want you, I don't want see y'll tweeting after
this interview at people just what you need to say.
Speaker 6 (42:25):
No, we love y'all, you know we need you.
Speaker 10 (42:30):
We love you.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
We are here for the fight. We're in it. We
you know, for us. We're not telling you not forcott,
but we're telling you to you know, support these brands support.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
We're going on ten year anniversary and we couldn't have
done it without our consumers and our loyal.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Customers, So thank you.
Speaker 8 (42:53):
Continue to support Ruckle Routes, follow us on all platforms
at Rucker Routes and of course Ellen said online rucker
Routes dot com.
Speaker 7 (43:00):
And we're Amazon, Walmart, Targets, Sally's Belt, JC, Penny Yeah,
and our website.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
I would just say the lip Bar has always been
a community based business. It's the community that has got
us this far. And please know that we will continue
to invest in the community like we will never turn
our back. Like I am from the blackest city in America, Detroit, Michigan,
so just know that I am always putting us first.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
There you have it and try It's the Breakfast Club.
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning. The
Breakfast Club
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everybody is j n V, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud
We are the Breakfast Club. Laura Rosa filling in for Jess.
We got some special guests with us this morning. We
have the founder and CEO of The lip Ball, Melissa Butler. Welcome,
and we also have co founders of Rucca Roots, doctor
Ellen Rucca Sellers and I own Rucca Jamison Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Good morning having us.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
No, we you know, the.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Reason we wanted you here to day is because this
is all this conversation about Target and should folks boycott
Target because they rolled back their DEI policies. But then
there are people who say we should be doing a
buyout and supporting all the black owned products in Target,
and you all have black owned products in Target.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So we wanted to hear from you all.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
Well. Thank you absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 7 (00:49):
Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for this platform
talk to Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for
this platform. You know, I think it's very important for
brand owners to have a voice in this because every
day we are in there grinding. We have worked so
hard to get on the shelf. The shelf space is
a covenant space, right, everybody didn't get the opportunity. And
(01:13):
and for a brand to get to shelf space, it
is a huge, like a process like it does.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
It takes years, it really does. And to stay there,
it's so it's so hard too.
Speaker 7 (01:27):
And so I'm so glad that you gave us this
platform because we need our community. We need our community
to you know, galvanize around these black brands because we're
fighting a good fight too, right, So.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Let's let's let's take it back. Let's go, Let's go
to the problem.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Let's start with since you're speaking, let's talk about Rocker Roots,
what rocker Roots is, and talk about the process of
selling your productcause most people don't know, they don't understand,
like you said, they automatically think you have a product,
you put it in Walmart in your good mind, they
understand that you know it goes from one store and
then the region and then from nucial store. So break
it down to what rucker Roots is, how it started,
and how you.
Speaker 7 (01:59):
Self rugger Roots we're all natural haircare company. I own
it and I started it in twenty fifteen with the
goal of being a household brand, right, And so we
started it in professional salon, so we gave product to
you know, stylists and let them use the product.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
We had a distributor.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
Then we went to trade shows, which we met Melissa
at several trade shows, trying to get your product out there.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
So you're in front of the consumer.
Speaker 7 (02:26):
And once you get the notoriety or the once you
get enough recognition amongst some of these retailers, they come
to you and say, hey, you know, let's talk about
coming into retail. And so our first retailer was Sally's
Beauty and then Target.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
And after you get one, you get more.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
But you know, in order to stay in those retail stores,
you get audited. Basically every year you have a line review.
If you're not performing, guess what, your space is gone.
And so when we look at the boycott, I'm not
telling people not the boycott, like, that's not in my spirit,
That's not where I come from, you know. I mean,
(03:08):
boycotting is part of you know, our blood lot, right.
What I am telling people is you can't forget these
black friends that have worked so hard to get there,
because it's a long process.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And see That's why I think a buyout is good
because of what you said. If you know, these products
are sitting on the celf and Target and nobody goes
in there and buys them, then that gives them a
reason to say, you know what, get this stuff out
of here anyway.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
And and honestly, isn't that the goal? Absolutely isn't that
the goal? And that's that's what we're working. I mean,
that's the goal for them, you know, to weed us out,
to discourage us to you know, bring trauma and drama
and all the things that you know, as black women
we have we have to deal with every single day
(03:51):
anyway with.
Speaker 8 (03:53):
How okay Ellen, Ellen and I are sisters, and we're
from South Carolina, the cy Carolanian say Charlemagne, And we
come from a very big family and a very small
town where four out of ten people in our town
are unbaked or either under Bay, so they don't have
the debit cards to shop online. All they have is
(04:15):
to go into our local Walmart and get products off
the shells. So that's forty percent of our clientele that
can't shop online. Now, we're not telling you not to
shop online, because as we all know, we want you
to shop online. But you know, we come from a
small town where a lot of our clientele can't shop online.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
We wid.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
We can't even when COVID hit our hometown.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
We couldn't even have remote schools because most of the
people don't have the enemy. Yeah, so we want our
people to be able to go to the Walmart and
pick up our products and shop, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
More than anything. So throughout this process, it's been really
disappointing to feel the wrath of our own community. Like
I started the lip Bar in twenty twelve, literally making
lipstick in my kitchen because I was frustrated with the
beauty industry, it's lack of diversity, its successive amounts of chemicals.
(05:15):
But I really wanted to center black women, and I've
been doing that for twelve years, Like twelve years, I've
been standing up for black women, saying, hey, you are enough. Hey,
I am creating products for you. Hey, I'm making sure
that I am building our self esteem collectively. And so
when this happens, I want our community to know that
(05:38):
we are disappointed too, Like we're upset with Target and
Walmart and Google and all of these companies that have
shut down their dei.
Speaker 9 (05:46):
But to ask us to.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Remove our products from retail, it's unrealistic because what does
that look like for most black businesses. It looks like
a shutting down or actual businesses. So you ask, like,
how does it work to get into retail? Well, how
it works is we buy inventory upfront months in advance,
(06:10):
you almost a year, so when you think about retail,
when you think about retail, it's kind of a crazy thing,
like we buy products to sit on shelf just in
case you want it, which means that we are we
are having to outlay capital at the forefront for thousands,
(06:35):
hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of units so
that if you go into your local Target, Walmart, CBS,
it is available for you.
Speaker 10 (06:49):
M amount of it.
Speaker 11 (06:51):
Depends on it depends on how many doors. Some stores
do have that it's a large amount, and they don't
give you money.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
To and they don't give you money to up it,
and so you have have to buy that inventory, but
you don't get paid on that inventory for sometimes eight months,
you know a year, depending on when you set and
then once they place the order, you can have terms
that are net sixty ninety, so like black owned brands
are waiting on their finances to come through. We can't
(07:19):
just pull our products from Target. Were wearing contracts with them.
We are for the most part dependent on retailers to
ensure that we have the visibility and to make sure
that we have the urns. Now, some people will say like, oh, well,
just you know, make sure they shop at your dot
com y'all. In twenty twenty, when black people when it
(07:41):
was a trend to shop black businesses, we all benefited. Yeah,
we all benefited.
Speaker 9 (07:46):
It felt good.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We were living in the money. We hire more people,
we bought more inventory, and then guess what, it wasn't
in vogue to shop black anymore. So I want us
to remember the buying power of black businesses. Sure, if
you want a boycott, boycott, because there is so much
power in our dollars. But at the end of the day,
(08:07):
we have to be intentional about our shopping to make
sure that our dollars are going back to our communities.
Speaker 9 (08:12):
Because guess what black people hire black people like.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
My team is seventy five percent black, my team is
one hundred percent women.
Speaker 9 (08:20):
I'm investing in my community.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I gave thirty five thousand dollars in grants to black
women last year.
Speaker 9 (08:25):
So it's like, this is what black businesses are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So the minute you decide that shopping black is a trend,
it negatively impacts us. The minute you decide that you
won't shop in the stores that carry our products, it
will impact us. Now, we're not here to say you
should shop and these retailers. If you feel disrespected, you
have the ability and the right to take your dollars
wherever you are most comfortable. But to your point, don't
(08:50):
forget about us. Please do, in fact, go to our
dot com exactly.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
And honestly, if you think about the amount of money
that it's spent black people spend on beauty brands, it's
like nine point four billion dollars, right, and as a
brand founder, we get about a small percentage of that,
like two point five percent. It's spent with you know,
black brands. Think about our community and it's all that
(09:17):
nine point four billion dollars went to these black brands.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, then we we can do, and then we.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Could have our own targets.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
And so that's the thing that you know, we need
to I think that we need to you know, I
know that there's a boycott not telling people not to boycott.
I understand that, but I think we have to switch
our mindset to, Hey, you know, we haven't been, you know,
shopping fully with these black brands all along.
Speaker 9 (09:43):
How about you know.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
We blood blood, their spaces blood, you know, stop stop.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Buying any other brand and just buy black.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
The power in that, yeah, because the reality isn't you
know when all of this first started happening, I didn't
even know that Target had all of these black brands.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Oh to me, that's a.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Good thing to have the awareness, But now what do
we do with that awareness?
Speaker 11 (10:04):
And women I feel like girls who follow beauty, like
I remember when you got into Target, and I remember
being like, oh my god, Like that's so lit. Now
I can I don't have to go and like scavenger
hunt for her. So it's unfortunate when I remember when
Tabitha Brown got into Target, like we kind of celebrated
because it is the platform. But at the same time,
there is some weird stuff because like I heard, I
(10:24):
saw a report that one of the brands said that
they found out when we found out that that the.
Speaker 9 (10:30):
D all find out.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Nothing, nothing, And so now we're just on the front
lines fighting on social media, because people are are coming
at us as if we did it, as if we
created it. So no, we did not have a head up.
That was very unfortunate. But I will say, like myself,
people like Tabitha Brown, people like beef from honey Pot.
(10:56):
We have been having constant conversation with Target about the impacts,
about their responsibility in the matter, and frankly pushing them
on what they need to do next. And so just
know that just because like we are online and we're
still selling our products, that does not mean that in
the background we are not fighting the good fight within
(11:18):
the retailer. Because at the end of the day, like
I know people are upset with Target and Walmart, but
like we actually have skin in the game, Like yeah,
you need to find a new place to shop your
toilet paper, but we are actually in business with them,
so of course we're upset. We are more upset with
these retailers for blind siding us and for frankly not
(11:39):
being clear on what this actually means. Now that being said,
all of those brands, for the most part, shopped or
launched in Target before DEI was this three letter trend
word like going back to like dark and lovely. They've
been pushing and building small black owned businesses so far
(12:00):
as I know, they continue, they will continue to do that.
But the reality is we are we are witnessing an
attack of d I. We are witnessing an attack from
the government on de I. So like, how how are
we all supposed to manage that? Are we supposed to
shut down our gmails?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I ask the d get your products in there? Did
they give you the opportunity to get in there?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
No, no, no.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
We got into retail because we were a strong brand.
Now do you know some of the buyers look like
us and they appreciate, you know, representation absolutely. You know,
some of the buyers that we have met with, you know,
with some of our retailers, they are African American buyers.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
And that's so important.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
Too to make sure that you know, we, you know,
have those people in those positions so that they can
bring in brands like us and understand the importance. But
if you look at how much African Americans spend, I mean.
Speaker 8 (12:54):
The retailers are all in the money making business, right
they we spend money.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
So yeah, it's a business.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
We don't foresee are our brand's going in I mean,
you know, we don't. They want to make money, and
our consumers spend the most money.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's just facts.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
So I just really, black women spend nine times our
white counterparts on beauty products. And so obviously there's a
difference in a black woman's hair and a white woman's
hair in terms of makeup. Aside from color theory and
a brand caring enough to actually have a wide range
of colors, there's no there's no real difference. And so
(13:32):
my buying team is actually not women of color. They've
never been women of color, and so I think that
speaks to the idea that, like to your point, they're
in the money business. Like everybody here is trying to
fill a gap. Everyone is trying to figure out how
do I get more customers to shop our products. And
this is where you know, if you have a recer roots,
(13:54):
if you have a bar, and you understand that this
can bring a different customer, you have an advantage hit.
And so we all have strong businesses, we all have
strong brands, we have strong followings, and that's how we've
been able to stay in retail this long.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Yes, you know, last time I got hand on your products, Melissa,
we was at the DNC convention and Governor Gretchen with,
Oh my God, give me an Angela Rai and who
else was it? Tiffany Cross? Like this game was all
products at the table.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So I am from Detroit. Detroit is a big part
of my resilience and my grit, and like she has
stood up for Michigan in a big way.
Speaker 9 (14:36):
And so she's one of.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Those people where it's like if she decided tomorrow that
she can't use the word de i anymore, I'm not
going to say, like, oh, you know, she she not
about the people, like she has shown me over the
years that she is showing up. But we love us
some big gritch.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
I want to expound on that, right because somebody told me,
and I don't know if this is true, they said
Target didn't actually roll back there initiative, just changed your name.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Is that true.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
I think that a lot of these corporations are scared
to get sued by the government, right.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
I think that's what they are nervous about.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
You know, this new administration coming in and making all
these changes and and the war on diversity, equity, inclusion,
and they're scared to get sued if they put it
out there and I know, you know, just this week,
we just we just shipped huge orders to you know,
one of our retailers.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
Really yeah, we're yeah, we just.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
But you know, that has been in the plan for
a long time, like Melissa.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Spoke to earlier. It's not like an overnight thing. But
of course they could have gone in and canceled those orders.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
They could have not sent them to us, because that
is their prerogative too, to not send the purchase orders.
But we're in the process of shipping tons of inventory
to one of these major retailers that have come out
and said that they are against the diversity equity.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Oh so they doubled down on their send us stuff.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
No, they are part of the they they have rollback
diversity equity.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
But we are getting huge purchase orders.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
The product is moving, but.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
We need the people to go into the stores and
purchase the product.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah yeah, and same same on the target front. So
like we've had conversations and we're like, what does this
mean for our brand, because like you know, it's it's
crazy to the idea of like being so outspoken on
this without going to target themselves, Like we want to
go straight to the source.
Speaker 9 (16:43):
So we're like, Yo, what's up.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Brands, and they're like, it means nothing for exactly, we
will continue to invest in your brand. And we've seen
purchase orders you know that were that were larger than usual,
but not because like they feel bad, because the products
are moving, like we're known for our lip colors, Like
we've been doing this for twelve years and we continue
(17:09):
to grow year over year, and so that retailer is
going to see that and they're going to continue to
double down.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
They're not.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
They're not just kicking all the black brands out. I
just want to be clean.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
But I wonder if that's because of the they're calling
it a bycot, because there's some people who are like, no,
I'm gonna go in these stores and I'm going to
buy all the black products. I may not buy anything else,
but I'm gonna buy a black.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Product, and we want you to do that, and we're
not telling I'm like, we're not here to tell you
where to shop.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
We're here to tell, like, ask you to shop with us.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
You know, we're not telling you oh blah, yeah, we're
not telling you not to go into Target.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Tell me the effects of what yes business exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It was something because to making Mallory was here and
she was saying that, you know, when people go to
these stores sometimes they forget like you know, they'll.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Go to get might go get the lip bardy, might
go get rug exactly to people, that's the reason that
you do it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
But people don't, you know, understand the effects of people
who are you know, have businesses in Target or Walmart
or Sam's Clubs or Costco that it effects.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So what do you tell those people?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Like so you tell them, look, we understand the boycott,
but you gotta you gotta, you gotta understand that we're
supporting so many of our community and we got to
make this happen.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Got to make this work some house, some way.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
I tell them, shop wherever you decide to shop, but
shot Black shop with us.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
We you know, we want you to.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
Buy the products wherever you feel comfortable buying them, wherever
you have access to buying them because so many people,
like our own was mentioning earlier, they only have certain
amount of stores that they can actually shop.
Speaker 8 (18:42):
If you have the luxury of boycotting and you feel
the need to boycott, then go ahead and do that.
But some people don't have that luxury, like I said,
and we have. You know, we always talk about promoting
generational wealth, promoting you know, giving back. We have a
fun of Rugger Edu Scholarship Fund where it's going on
our twelfth year where we give back scholarships to students
(19:04):
from our hometown that our first generation scholarship students. So
we want to do more of that in our community.
We want to create more generational wealth. And to know
wanted to do that, you have to continue to support
our brands because we have done everything.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Like Melissa just said, we fronted.
Speaker 8 (19:21):
We just fronted so much inventory and we want to
sell it through because we you know, if not then
we'll have these huge buybacks and that just chargebacks, and
that just really hurts our business and our brands.
Speaker 10 (19:37):
You mentioned the thing about Target just changing the name.
They did both.
Speaker 11 (19:40):
So they changed the name of their supplier Diversity team
to Supplier Engagement and then they also got rid of
their belonging at the Bullseye, which is a strategy to
include black employees, build meaningful careers and improve like experience
of black shoppers and promote black owned businesses.
Speaker 10 (19:58):
So they did both of them.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
And I know we're talking about Target, but for us
rugger Roots.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
We're in several seven different retail stores, so there's so
many other options to show.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
So we're in Target, We're in JC penny, We're.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
In Belt, We're in Sally's, We're in Amazon, We're in Walmart, Walmart, Walmart.
And if you look at you know, jcpenny and Belt,
they have doubled down on their di they are you know,
they are adamant about keeping diversity, equity.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Inclusion with you know their companies.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
And we're there too, so you know, we and our products,
you know, we're on shelf at all of those places.
And as a black owned business, if you're going to
boycott one.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Then flood flood the other.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
Our website is, I mean, we have a warehouse in
Indian Land, South Carolina where.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
We're shipping, packing, sending.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Orders out every day on our e commerce and a
lot of times I own and I are in there.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Like last week I posted on my social.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Media, I was like wrapping a past that was going
out to Walmart. Like we're still in there grinding every
single day. And so if you're gonna you know, say okay,
we're gonna not shop here, then shop elsewhere. Support the
brand elsewhere where, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I think one of the misconceptions is that if a
brand is in retail, they've already made it.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yeah, they're already They're already huge.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And it's like, just because you know, we get pressed
or because we're on the breakfast clip, that does not
mean that the brand has actually gone the distance.
Speaker 9 (21:29):
So I just want.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
People to know that by by not shopping you know,
Black Owned, no matter what the channel is, know that
you are impacting how someone is feeding their fam absolutely,
like just because the lip bar, you know, press, press
and likes do not equal dollars, Like, let's not get
get fooled by the social media hil and so people
(21:52):
are people will say like, oh, they already got it.
It's fine that they can. They can miss the dollars. No,
because we got payroll every two weeks.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
My boy, we got warehouse, we got warehouse rent, we
got rent to pay all the things.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
So oh, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (22:10):
I was gonna ask behind the scenes, though I don't
know how close a lot of you, like the Black
Owned brands were in these major retailers with this Target
walmartor whatever. But I feel like now because y'all are
kind of going through this together, has it created a
line of communication or system where you guys are figuring
out things amongst your own selves for the up and coming,
like black owned brands that will hit retail like shops.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And Yeah, I had a call actually, like pretty much
immediately after it happened, renee blew it from she did that,
she helped organize it, and my first thing was like,
y'all need to reach out to your buyers because a
lot of people are afraid.
Speaker 9 (22:46):
A lot of people were.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Like, I don't think I have the leverage to even
reach out to Target and ask them what's going on.
Speaker 10 (22:52):
Smaller brands and Target they're smaller.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But meanwhile, it's like, we've been in Target for like
eight years, so I know that I can reach out out.
And I did reach out very aggressively actually, but I'm like, no,
reach out to let them know that we are coming together.
Reach out to let them know that we are demanding
that y'all give us some responses and some meaning to
what this is. Reach out and let them know that, like,
(23:16):
we won't just stand for this. And so, like, I
do think that it is bridging the gap because typically
I think one of the issues in the black community
is that we hold things to the chest and it's
okay to be vulnerable because like, the more we are vulnerable,
the more information we get, and the more information we have,
then we can actually make better decisions. And so I
(23:37):
think it's absolutely happening, and I'm proud of the work
that a lot of the black owned businesses are doing
right now.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Can we talk more about you know, is it fair
for black owned products to receive backlash but still having
their products in Target or any of these stores that
are rolling back to.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
De No, that's no more.
Speaker 9 (23:53):
No, it's not fair because here's the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Thing, like people are complaining on Meta that is that
has rolled back their DEI, people are using their Gmail
that has rolled back their DEI, people saying that black
black owned businesses that are already small, that are already underfunded.
Black women receive less than one percent of all VC dollars,
(24:17):
and I actually think that the number went down post COVID,
Like we can't afford to do it. So what people
are asking us to do is essentially like you know,
fill our houses, closed our doors, fire our entire teams.
And it's like, are you doing that for the for
the community, Are you doing that for the struggle, like
are you quitting your job without a plan to feed
(24:38):
your family? Like until we are all like locked in
arms that this is what we're doing for the culture.
It is. It is unfair. Now we're not over here
saying you need to keep shopping at Target or Walmart
or Amazon, any of these places because they have all
decided to shut down.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
DEI.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
What we have said is like, we got my website,
they have websites. I have a store in Detroit, Like
shop wherever you choose to shop.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
That is your privative.
Speaker 8 (25:04):
Give us a little I can say that twenty five
percent of our cells come from our internet, from our
e commerce, from our website, so the other seventy five
percent is from being on the shelves.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So that's our livelihood.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
So we need you guys, you know, we need to
stay on the shelves, and we need you guys to
purchase from Walmart, Target.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
Give the black brands more more than two point five
percent of the nine point four billion dollars that it's
spent and on beauty.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
And it's easy, give us more percent.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Give us a little bit more of that you know money, right,
I mean, that's all we're asked because people people want
to buy people.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
I want us to be honest.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Like, if you go into your makeup bag, if you
go into your your linen closet, if you go into
your your actual closet, how many of those brands, Like
your fashions, how much of it is black owned?
Speaker 9 (26:04):
How much of your makeup.
Speaker 10 (26:08):
A point today different, but.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Like your your pantry, like your fashions, your hair, your makeup,
like the lip bar is constantly begging people to shop
the lip Bar over elf or over n y X. Like,
and it's not just about the lip bar. There are
lots of black owned brands you can shop.
Speaker 9 (26:28):
This is not just.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Yeah, it's about our community, about our community.
Speaker 8 (26:32):
We would love for you to go on our dot com,
but we know that only twenty five percent of our
sales come from there. I mean, we make more money
when you shop on our website. Person, you know, our
personal business website.
Speaker 10 (26:44):
So but.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Anybody who talk you reached out at all?
Speaker 10 (26:48):
Yeah, I've talked to talk about for like two weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Okay, but what did they say? Like, what do they say?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Say? Nothing?
Speaker 7 (26:55):
But you know, like our sales team with Walmart, We've
had several conversations with them, like really strong conversations and
they say the same thing. We didn't bring you in
because of diversity, equity inclusion. We brought you in because
you're a strong brand and where you know, we're going
to keep you there as long as you're performing.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
But that's the key. We have to perform.
Speaker 11 (27:15):
But do they plan to, like say more to kind
of like protect y'all alone, not protect yall because 'all
don't need them to protect.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Like they kind of like it aggravated things when it did.
Speaker 11 (27:27):
Yeah, so they don't plan on like what's the remedy
because if this was the Black Square era, that would
have been came out and I don't know, we're a
cloth or something. So now they can be silent and
no one cares and it's like whatever, But like the plan.
Speaker 10 (27:49):
Because you guys don't seem like you're leaving anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah, you can't.
Speaker 10 (27:56):
I mean, so it's a partnership.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I think that people have to continue to put pressure, honestly. So,
I mean, in my conversations with Target, they have been apologetic.
They have been clear that they are continuously investing in
small black and brown brands, Like this is literally from
like their mouths over.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
The last two weeks.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
But I'm like, listen, don't say it to me, say
it to the public, because it's the public who is upset.
It's the public who you owe something to, not just
your vendors. And so I think we have to just
continue to tell our story and demand what we want
to see.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And you know, I wonder I haven't spoken, and this
is why it's so difficult, right because I love y'all,
But then I love Denina Turners, and I love you
to meet mallories, and I understand why you feel the
way y'all feel, and understand why they feel the way
they feel. But I wondered, was there any conversations amongst y'all,
did any of the people wanting to boycott calling you
the people who have brands.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
In the store.
Speaker 9 (28:52):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I talked to Roland Martin, okay, okay, and he he
was like, we got a boycott, and I said, well, oh,
we gotta do whatever we gotta do, but just make
sure that y'all are clear on having a plan to
continue to invest in and support black businesses, because it
can't be this thing where it's it's trendy to shop
(29:14):
black today and then two weeks later you know, we're
not in vogue anymore.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I mean I live with someone that's on the front line,
because yeah, my husband is on TV fighting the good
fight every single night, and we have these conversations at home,
and you know, he understands that I have a business
to promote.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
He appreciates the boycott where you.
Speaker 7 (29:39):
Know, boycott boycotting, and you know, civil rights movement is
part of our bloodline, like we're from the Deep South,
and in that I appreciate, you know, their movement because
that's how things have changed in history. But like Melissa said,
you know, it can't just be a trend to forget
(30:01):
about these black brands. And so I think it just
has to be you know, people have to look at
it in a different lens. And that's why I think
it's so important for black brands to have these conversations
with the public, like hey, you know, that's great. You
know we're If that's what you want to do, then
you know, vote with your dollar.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
What you say.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The thing is conversation, right, it's something that you said earlier.
Most time people when you see something in a store,
the automatically think you made it right.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, it's successful. You guys are rich, you guys are filter.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You guys are billionaires because they don't understand what it takes.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So without having.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
These conversations, people don't understand.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And not only that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
As a dad that goes into sallies, a lot of
times I don't know what's a black brand or what's
a regular brand. My wife to get some shampoo or
we need a new shampoo for for whatever. So when
I asked the lady at the front desk, who a
lot of times might not be black that I.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Use just for men.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
But but you need to have all these conversations where
people understand what it is because a lot of times
I don't think people actually get it because the first
thing you think of is when you see a brand
of Target, is that you guys have made it, and
it's not necessarily the truth.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
And I believe, you know, there's guys like John Bryant
who represented you know, uh, plans on what should happen.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I believe what he says.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
He says we should redirect energy towards supporting companies that
double that double down on the I and he says
we should position diversity, equity and inclusion as a business
imperative not a political.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Right, but is it realistic to do that when the
government has made it a political agenda?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
So some some.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Of the companies right and target aside, like if the
government is like we're gonna cut your funding if you
if you uphold your d what is that that company's
supposed to do? So maybe it doesn't impact costco because
maybe they're not receiving government subsidies. But for those companies
that that are, like, how how does that work? And
(32:13):
I'm really I'm really asking because I feel like we
have to be clear that it's not just the companies
that are doing this DEI pull back, it's also Trump.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
If you just don't be absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I mean it's it's because of Trump.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
But I guess you know, John O'Brien is saying that
you should reframe the narrative around diversity, equity and inclusion
as critical for economic competitiveness, innovation, and market growth, like
it impacts your bottom line, Like that's what we should
be telling these companies.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
They know that though.
Speaker 11 (32:43):
What first thing you learn in if you have a
retail background or seller's background at all, is market study.
In numbers retail stores are placed, they choose clothing that
goes into norsetrums based off who lives around that norsetrum.
Speaker 10 (32:55):
They know what people look like, how they shore, They
know all of that. It's just do they have to
care kind?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And that's what I said.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
That's why when when I when I said do there,
it's like, why would they even put out a press release?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Like why would they just put this they did?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I think they from the target perspective, they didn't put
out a press and that's why, like they still haven't
said anything because they're like, we didn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I haven't seen Walmart.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Walmart absolutely put out they said. But but they did
say what they're going to continue to do. And I
think that that is what is o to the to
the people, like instead of just saying like, okay, we're
we're killing de I be clear on what that means.
Be clear on what that means for not only your customers,
but the people who work there.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Or if you're if they're concerned about Trump and the administration,
you know, giving them, you know, lawsuits or whatever. If
they continue change the name, like do emerging brands like,
you know, change change the name, but don't eliminate you know,
these these you know these brand owners and these companies
(34:05):
that work so hard to get to the place that.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
You know, you say you're just getting rid of the DEI.
Anythink that you just don't care about black people.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Don't care about black people.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Get First of all, black people are not the biggest beneficiaries.
Speaker 8 (34:18):
Of de I.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
It's white women, it's white women, it's veterans, and it
goes so much further than just black people. It's d
I is the pumping rooms that women have when when
they're pregnant. D I is the accessible ramps for disabled people.
But I know Black people, because we are so unfortunately
(34:39):
used to being oppressed in this country, we immediately are
like they hate black people, and rightfully so. Right so
it's like, okay, well tell tell us.
Speaker 9 (34:49):
That you don't.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
And I think that's what we're all waiting for from
all of these companies.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
Have this question, and I know that y'all have answered
it in different ways throughout the interview, but I just
want to be clear, what do you think is the
appropriate strategy to let these companies know that we don't
like how they drop DEI without affecting y'all's.
Speaker 7 (35:04):
Bottom line, the companies or our community both m hm.
Speaker 9 (35:10):
I think we have to keep being vocal.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a bullseye
on Target and saying we won't accept this. But I
also think that in the same vein, we have to
be intentional shoppers to ensure that we are actually voting
with our dollar. But like, keep keep putting the pressure
on Target.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Why not, We'll let bulls eye affect your business, though
what they look back and be like, you know what,
this is being too difficult with this damn bulls eye.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Not if ourselves are impacted. So like they speak green first.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Yes, exactly, Yeah, so you're performing and if you're if
you're if your products aren't just sitting there, and if
they're making money and all the things, and they're going
to keep you there, then less I can say whatever
she wants every five because all they care about is
the money.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, company and Target.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Right, Yeah, And we've been in Target since twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen, and we've grown a year over year, and like,
of course we're disappointed, but we're not gonna pull our
products from Target in this moment because it doesn't make
financial sense for us. But we will continue to put
pressure on Target and say yo, like this is not okay,
(36:30):
right go.
Speaker 10 (36:31):
Ahead, No, go ahead, you can go.
Speaker 8 (36:34):
I don't even know what I was going to ask this.
Speaker 11 (36:38):
This whole thing brings up a conversation of like how
people feel when, especially the black beauty brands begin to
like if they're bought out by non black people stuff
like that.
Speaker 10 (36:48):
I remember, I think, what was it Courtney's brand or
was it.
Speaker 11 (36:51):
It was one of those brands that something like that
happened with and they got dragged for it. And when
this happened, I remember there was a thread that I
read and they were basically saying this is why we
should only sell through US, And I was like, but
what does that look like?
Speaker 10 (37:04):
How do you do that?
Speaker 11 (37:05):
I guess it's like owning your own store and detreat
versus and doing more of that versus being in the target.
How do you guys feel about that conversation of like,
you know, like even in I don't know, investors or
kind of the capitalism conversation, I.
Speaker 7 (37:18):
Think that it's important for us to remember that when
you're growing a brand and and you get to a
certain level, there's only so much that you can do,
and you have to bring in investors, and you have
to bring in different, you know, amounts of money to
scale to that global and to hit that global brand.
(37:40):
And when companies decide to sell, you know, I know
a lot of companies have stuff, but they they also
bring that money back to the community. They give so
much money. They funnel all that you know, so much,
so many scholarships and so many you know, grants.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
And everything back into the community.
Speaker 7 (37:59):
I think it's kind of unfair to put that amount
of pressure on black brands, because aren't you growing your
brand for a legacy, for economic growth in your community.
Aren't you growing your brand so that you can make
a difference, that you can leave something behind greater than
you and not the purpose.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
A billion dollars.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Like, and so in other communities, people don't give them
hell for selling their products. They get celebrated, They get celebrated,
and I think that's so unfair and and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
I don't I don't like.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
It when Rich Dennis so shame moisture. He started the
New Voices Fund to invest in black women, and some
of your favorite entrepreneurs were beneficiaries of him selling shame moisture.
So he invested in lip Bar, he invested in Sloaty Vegan,
he invested in honey Pot, he invested in Mao Organics,
(39:00):
invested in Natural Club. Like, literally, almost a lot of
the pop in black owned businesses right now came as
a result of that sale. So to your point, it's
really about what people do with the money when they sell.
And then I totally understand people being upset like, oh,
we can't have nothing, because I feel like that's how
the community feels.
Speaker 9 (39:20):
Like, you know, as soon.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
As a brand grows and we support it, they sell
to a white company or a white person. And my
question to you is like, well, who do we sell
it to? Unfortunately there are no black Procter and Gambles
or Unilevers because why because we only spend two and
a half percent of a another point four billion dollars
(39:41):
with black brands. And so if we were to pull
our dollars and even if we just only focused on
beauty and say, you know what, I can commit to
only shopping black beauty. Clothing might be.
Speaker 9 (39:54):
Harder, shoes might be harder.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
You know, your pantry might be harder, but beauty is
not that hard. There are undreds of black owned beauty brands,
but we are still fighting with multinational corporations. People are
absolutely still buying the Lorels and Mabelings instead of the
lip Bars and the Dnessa Myricks, and so we would
love to shop or sell to black people. It's just
(40:18):
that that's not an option. So what do we do?
Do we not realize our generational wealth because most Black people,
our wealth is actually tied in our equity, which means
that we have to have a liquidation event.
Speaker 9 (40:31):
That's what it's called.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Liquidation event, is when you sell some of your equity
so that you can get some of the money. Yeah,
Melissa Butler of the lip Bar is a millionaire on paper,
baby on paper, which means that I need to do
something you actually get liquid So I just I want
y'all to understand how business works, especially when you fundraise.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
But that's the most difficult thing, right, You're trying to
explain business to people who don't have no business. So
I remember when they got mad at Beatrice when she
sold for what was it three eighty or something like that,
and she kept the minority stake and was still CEO.
(41:16):
And I'm just like, I was happy for her, and
it's like who she don't sell it.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
To until we get to the point where we have
you know, these people that have grown brands like you know,
Rich Dennis that can actually help invest in and buy
you know, companies and all those things. Until we grow
more of those people, until we have that status, then
(41:45):
we don't have you know, happen.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
We'll go out and support these ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Please tell them how How did they support Rucker Routes?
Speaker 7 (41:52):
How do they support the live www dot Rucker Routes
dot com. You can find us in seven different retailers
you know, shoes wear, but just support us.
Speaker 9 (42:03):
The lipbar dot com.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
If you're in Detroit, we have our own store, but
we're also Amazon, Walmart, Target, CBS, and you can follow
us on all social platforms at the lip bar.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Any final just messages for the community because y' I
don't want you, I don't want see y'll tweeting after
this interview at people just what you need to say.
Speaker 6 (42:25):
No, we love y'all, you know we need you.
Speaker 10 (42:30):
We love you.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
We are here for the fight. We're in it. We
you know, for us. We're not telling you not forcott,
but we're telling you to you know, support these brands support.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
We're going on ten year anniversary and we couldn't have
done it without our consumers and our loyal.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Customers, So thank you.
Speaker 8 (42:53):
Continue to support Ruckle Routes, follow us on all platforms
at Rucker Routes and of course Ellen said online rucker
Routes dot com.
Speaker 7 (43:00):
And we're Amazon, Walmart, Targets, Sally's Belt, JC, Penny Yeah,
and our website.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
I would just say the lip Bar has always been
a community based business. It's the community that has got
us this far. And please know that we will continue
to invest in the community like we will never turn
our back. Like I am from the blackest city in America, Detroit, Michigan,
so just know that I am always putting us first.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
There you have it and try It's the Breakfast Club.
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning. The
Breakfast Club
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