June 24, 2025 • 56 mins
Join host Nyomi Banks for a powerful and enlightening conversation with transgender author, podcaster, and activist Ami Herrick as we explore the universal journey of identity and gender expression.
In this special Pride Month episode, we dive deep into:
• The science behind sex vs. gender and why it matters for everyone
• Ami's personal transformation journey at age 52 and the courage it took to live authentically
• Breaking down myths and misconceptions about gender identity
• Why understanding identity isn't just for the LGBTQ+ community - it's a human experience we all navigate
• The power of storytelling in shifting perspectives and building empathy • Practical advice for anyone feeling trapped or questioning their identity
Ami shares her motto "making transgender normal" and explains how gender expression is something every human develops throughout their lifetime. From discussing sports and societal barriers to celebrating the beauty of living authentically, this conversation will challenge assumptions and open hearts.
Whether you're part of the LGBTQ+ community, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the complexity of human identity, this episode offers valuable insights wrapped in compassion and understanding.
Key Topics: Gender identity, transgender experience, authenticity, self-love, family relationships, societal acceptance, Pride Month
Hashtags: #BridgingIdentity #PrideMonth #GenderIdentity #AskNyomiBTG #Authenticity #SelfLove #LGBTQ
Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music/Audible, Castbox, Deezer, Podcast Addict, Podchaser, and JioSaavn.
Remember: Always Keep It So Sexy (A.K.I.S.S) 💜
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/ask-nyomi-bridging-the-gap-podcast--5343726/support.
In this special Pride Month episode, we dive deep into:
• The science behind sex vs. gender and why it matters for everyone
• Ami's personal transformation journey at age 52 and the courage it took to live authentically
• Breaking down myths and misconceptions about gender identity
• Why understanding identity isn't just for the LGBTQ+ community - it's a human experience we all navigate
• The power of storytelling in shifting perspectives and building empathy • Practical advice for anyone feeling trapped or questioning their identity
Ami shares her motto "making transgender normal" and explains how gender expression is something every human develops throughout their lifetime. From discussing sports and societal barriers to celebrating the beauty of living authentically, this conversation will challenge assumptions and open hearts.
Whether you're part of the LGBTQ+ community, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the complexity of human identity, this episode offers valuable insights wrapped in compassion and understanding.
Key Topics: Gender identity, transgender experience, authenticity, self-love, family relationships, societal acceptance, Pride Month
Hashtags: #BridgingIdentity #PrideMonth #GenderIdentity #AskNyomiBTG #Authenticity #SelfLove #LGBTQ
Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music/Audible, Castbox, Deezer, Podcast Addict, Podchaser, and JioSaavn.
Remember: Always Keep It So Sexy (A.K.I.S.S) 💜
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/ask-nyomi-bridging-the-gap-podcast--5343726/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, my beautiful people, but welcome back to X Time,
a bridge gap podcast. I'm your host, family Banks, But
as we closed our Pride Month of twenty twenty five,
I wanted to share something.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Really special with you.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
At a few months ago, I had an incredible live
guest conversation that I knew deserve the perfect moment to
reach all of you on every platform, and that moment
is now what today's episode is about.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So much more than.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Just understanding the LGPDQ in the community. It's about understanding
the beautiful complexity of human identity that lives within all
of us. Whether you're questioning and exploring, or simply want
to be better to understand the people in your life,
this conversation will open your heart and expand the perspective.
(00:44):
Today I was joined by the amazing I need Herk,
a transgender author, podcaster, and activist who reminds us what
gender isn't just about one community. This is about the
human experience that we all navigate from the side is
behind the identity to deeply personal stories of transformation. We're
(01:05):
bridging gaps and building understanding. So grab your favorite drink,
get comfortable, and let's dive into this powerful conversation about identity, authenticity,
and the courage it takes to livish yourself, because at
the end of the day, we all deserve to feel
the natural, beautiful humans that we are. So let's first act.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
To welcome to a podcast like no other.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get ready for insightful conversations, diverse perspectives, and the touch
of inspiration.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
This is Ask Naomi Bridging the Gap podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Join your host, the dynamic Naomi Banks as she delves
into the heart of various topics with a refreshing blend
of curiosity and wisdom. Each week tune in is Naomi
is joined by special guests who bring their unique stories
and expertise to the table. It's a journey of discovery, learnings,
and growing. And let's not forget about the one and
only dog pounding like money, adding his flavor and player
(02:14):
to the mix.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Together, then they've been dynamic heard.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
About one of these From thought provoking discussions to moments
of laughter and joy. Ask Naomi Bridging the Gap podcast
offers a space where great topics meet amazing guests. So
mark your calendars, set your reminders, and prepare to be
entertained in light. Join Naomi Banks and Dog Pound Mike
weekly for an unforgettable podcast experience. Get ready to bridge
(02:39):
the gap, expand your horizons, and immerse yourself in the
world of ask Naom. Subscribe now and stay tuned for
a podcast journey like no other.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
ZAMS conversation today. I am so riched for it.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I am so good Joining me today is a wonderful
I me Eric I mean is a transgender op podcaster
and activists who is committed to normalizing conversations about gender identity.
But before we bring her to the stage, we're gonna
take a quick break. All right, it's your gurty, got
its banks here on X name of Vision, got podcasts,
and we'll.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Be right back.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Washington wells into two focuses on healing always for me,
if I look good, then I feel good. If I
feel good, then I share the good. If I share
the good, then I celebrate the good. If I celebrate
the good, then I live the good. So I can
be paid to be my greatest. But I have to
learn the good to be the good.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So what does it take to be the greatest?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It's as simple as a free fifteen minute consultation. Be
kind to yourself and He'll always.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What are some commoners that prevent people from heye, your
gurty god is not me? Banks here from the season
and Stuff Love Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, I would say remorse.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
So shame and guilt is a very emotion.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And these are one of the many amazing conversations that
we have every day Monday and Friday right here in
the season and podcast with myself now and we Banks
as well as our resident therapist, doctor Will Washington Washington.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, it makes.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Institute come by, relationships come by a lot of time.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I'm afraid of how people will look at us and
so that compassion can't enter.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You can hit us all over this season of Some
Love Podcasts dot Com.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
With the truth? Is it all right?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, How are you?
Speaker 6 (04:43):
I'm doing okay? Hello, Naomi, you're looking amazing, by the way,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
We're twinning right now. We are definitely right to huh
you think?
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You teach it out for every guest, right.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You think?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And again, welcome to the show. I am so excited
for this show.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
BTG crew.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Hey, hey, we got a nice little live crowd right
here that as commenting as we speak right now. But
today's episode is titled Bridging the gap and understanding identity
and gender. Well, we explore the science of gender, the
personal stories, activism, and the universal relevance of identity. You know, listeners,
I encourage you to engage with us on the social
media using hashtag bridging identity to share your thoughts on reflections.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So less began.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All right, So let's start by breaking down some of
the science behind gender. I mean, many people hear the
word sex and gender, right and they assume that we
mean the same thing. So can you explain the distinction
between them and why it's important?
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Absolutely if you look at at early biologists. So I'm
gonna do a little history lesson because I could talk
about all kinds of like science y stuff, genetics, or
we could talk about various pieces of of whatever, lots
of biology. But if you if you look at early biologists,
they were trying to classify species and they said, okay,
(06:14):
look we can figure We figured out that some species
reproduce sexually, so it takes at least two organisms to
to to reproduce, and so we classified the two different
types by the size of one cell. What's called a
gamm eat and that's sperm or ova. These are pretty
obvious but then we realized there were some species that
(06:38):
could produce both sperm and ova, so that each organism
could could produce both. Sometimes they would produce them sequentially.
They'd start off making one gamme eat and change over
to something else. Sometimes they would change because of social pressures,
like they're a fish that everybody starts off female and
(07:00):
then one of them will turn mail based on social pressures.
So biologists said, we need something else. Sex is too
limited if we just say what what cell do you make?
It didn't It doesn't explain enough. And so the best
way to define this, or at least in my own words,
(07:20):
is to say that sex is sex makes sense when
you're having one act of reproduction, and gender, which is
your individual expression of biology, biochemistry and the social environment
is gender. So gender is pretty much anything I like
to think of it like this, Sex makes sense when
(07:42):
you've gotten to the bedroom. Gender is everything else that
gets you to the bedroom. That's I think that's a
good way to think of it.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So right, that's that's an important clarification.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think a lot of a lot of misconceptions stems
from the idea that biology is simple.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I want to react, right, you know, identity is influenced
by a combination of biological, social, and psychological factors. So
what are some of the biggest myths, the biggest myths
or misunderstandings that you come across from with disgusting gender
with people?
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Probably the biggest one, so the idea that gender is binary.
I mean you've said, you know, the big word is biopsychosocial, right,
So biology, psychology, sociology. I love So when people say, oh, well,
gender is binary, and then and then ask me, so
it's supposed to be a challenge, like, I go, how
do I answer this? People say how many genders are there?
(08:38):
I say, only one yours? Because that's what you can understand.
You can't understand everything about me. You can't understand my biology.
You don't live in my body. I know how much
we're twinning, but you don't live in my body, right,
you don't live in my head. So you can only
understand your own identity, your own expression of gender. So
(09:00):
I would say that's the biggest myth is that people
come at me and say, well, there's man and woman,
that's it, and you go, but everybody has different expression. Actually,
because let me change my answer a little bit forgive me,
I'd say the biggest myth is that gender only applies
to humans, because gender applies to all biology, cats, dogs, chimpanzees, trees, rhododendrons,
(09:29):
bring me, give me a species. Whatever you had, gender applies,
and we seem to think it's only a human thing.
And that's why you'll have some president, not all, thanksfully,
but some presidents who are write executive orders trying to
say I'm going to redefine words that are owned by science.
(09:49):
The myth is that it's a political thing as opposed
to a biology. It's a definition made by biologists to
cover all of the expression that we see in in
you know, the richness of biology thing. That's the biggest
myth that I got.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Hm, you know, thank you for that answer. So let's
get it.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Let's get personal. So you have a model that you
say that I absolutely love making transgender normal in twenty
twenty two. So can you share what that means to
you and how your journey has shaped your active activistess.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
Oh gosh, yes, what a beautiful question. When I when
I made that little, that little slogan making transgender normal
since twenty twenty two, The the idea is that when
I so, here's what happened. I started transitioning gender. I
was fifty two years old, and it and it just
I started writing. I thought, I've got to write about
(10:46):
this because all I did was put on an estrogen patch,
and all of a sudden, my head cleared up, my
thoughts were my thoughts were more clear, my emotions were
under control. I just felt in general so much better.
And I said, well, I'm a scientist, right, I started
off as a biologist, a geneticist, so let me explore this.
(11:08):
And so I started writing about it, and I thought, Okay,
I'm writing about the transgender experience. But pretty quickly I realized, no,
I'm writing about like an LGBTQ experience. And then I
realized that gender is something we all do. Like you
had to develop your gender. You part of developing your
gender expression that has been to add some purple in
(11:29):
your hair. We do this all our lives. It's not
my it's not just for me, it's not just for
the queer community. It's for every single human. And so
when I talk about gender and say that it's normal,
it's because each one of us has to develop this.
So so that was part of the journey. I started
off very very I got to fifty two years old
(11:51):
and I was so tired and hurting very badly. And
when I started transition, I mean I turned into somebody
very happy and who really wants to live. And I
don't think I was ever able to say that in
my life before that, I wanted to live. And it's
because I was suppressing who I was. That's what our
(12:12):
society wants us to do, suppress who we are in
whatever ways you can look at entrenched sexism, entrenched racism.
We have a Western society is very good. It's saying,
don't be who you are, be who we want you
to be. So if we can make the idea that
the idea that each of us has to develop who
(12:33):
we are normal because it is because each of us
does this, then transgender being transgender is totally normal. I
did the same process you did, just got to a
different destination.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So right, so let me ask you this, because yeah
with me before that is your birthday just past?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Happy birthday?
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yes? Yeah, yesterday?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, yes, happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So you you mentioned just a few moments ago that
you were fifty two when you when you transition, You
transitioned over. So let me ask you what came What
made you say, Okay, it's time, it is time for
me to make that move. It is time for me
to embrace all of me.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
What was it?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So I knew this, I was well aware by about
four years old. I knew I was a girl by
eight years old. I could tell that people were treating
me differently. So from about eight years old until fifty two,
it was just pushing it all aside. I actually looked
into transition in two thousand and one, so originally, you
(13:36):
know a little more than twenty years ago. I was
going to transition then, and it was much more difficult.
So I'll give you I'll give you a really personal
story because in twenty eleven, well in twenty ten, we
found out that my wife was pregnant and so we
were going to have a kid, and I thought, well,
(13:56):
of course we're going to have a girl. But it
turned out to be a boy. And I thought to myself,
I don't know how to handle boys. I don't know
boy things. What the hell am I going to do?
And so what I did was say, I've got to
push all of this completely out of my head. I
have to suppress it. Until it until I don't know
(14:17):
anything that. I never knew that anything feminine because boys
need fathers and fathers are men. This is what I had,
is my mantra. Thank you Charmaine for the birthday, which
is by the way. And that was really difficult. It
took uh. I took about ten years before finally everything
(14:40):
broke down and I had a really big had a
really big mental lapse, and my wife said, listen, I've
known you for twenty whatever years. Now I need you
to explore your gender. And really, so what happened is
I had I had pushed myself aside, you know, really
(15:00):
really hid myself for a decade, and it just it
just broke apart. I was I was a very sad
and a crabby old man wanting to die. It wasn't hoping,
it was wanting and just I got to get out
of here. And so so I started thinking about it.
I really didn't want not dying. Sorry, I started thinking
about transition and I really didn't want to for the law.
(15:24):
It took six months, seven months, yeah, till it was
little of six months before I said all right, I'll
do it, because again I couldn't get out of my head.
Boys need fathers and fathers are men. And here's here's
the crazy thing. My son and I really didn't have
a relationship because I resented him, because I had to
(15:46):
push myself aside for him. And now that I've transitioned
way of a great relationship, it's a beautiful thing. My
my relationship with my wife got better, my relationship with
my son got better. I'm happy, I'm expressive. And the
idea that anybody should push themselves aside because society says
(16:12):
you should, it's ridiculous. You're harming only yourself. So hopefully
that wasn't too No, it wasn't too much of a
tear jerker.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But actually it was a tear jerker for me because
my eyes are a little watery right here.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But first of all, thank.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
You for sharing that story and the reason why, because
it's like I felt you. I felt your emotions even
when you said that in twenty eleven that your wife
was pregnant, ye hoping for a girl, and then now
there's a boy and you can't connect in that way
because now you feel like you're less than a person
to be able to help him become the man that
(16:50):
society wants him. To be and you don't want him
to go through the same things that you've been going
through since you've been four years old. And so that
kind of pulled at my heart. You know, streams is like,
oh my God, like being really trapped in your body,
(17:11):
being trapped in that body.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That you are not comfortable with, that it's.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Not truly you, and that you're unable to have a
voice to speak and.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Say you know. And I felt that.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I felt that knowing that I love my wife, I
love my son, I love with all of that, but
I cannot be I cannot give him what it is
for me unless I'm taking it. You know, we making
it a gender wise and I guess this is why
the word love is so important, and that it goes gender.
(17:45):
And when I say this, I know people are gonna say, no, Naoma,
you're wrong, No, let's let's let's do this' carell We
talk about masculinity and feminine and I know a lot
of people say that you need a father and a
mother to be able to raise a child, whether it's
a girl or whether it's a boy, and I do
(18:06):
understand that, but all in instant it takes love first.
It takes love first. And when I say this love first,
let's not talk about let's take love first.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
How the climate of.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Society is right now? And with our new elective president,
how are your emotions right now?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
How are you moving forward right now as a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Of the rights are being taken away from things are
changing every day that you would no longer be looked
at as you know, transgender, but as your birth as
a male.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
How does that make you.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Feel now that even though it's only been three years,
happy birthday again, three years of you, you know, doing that?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
How do you feel right now?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
It's really we all feel under attack. I mean, I
think I'm just gonna leave it at that. We as
soon as Trump was elected, I'll say the name was
the last time. As soon as the new administration was elected,
all of us thought, you know, what are we gonna
do this? This one one of the big campaign promises
was I'm gonna eradicate this idea that that you can
(19:26):
be different than than we want you to be. And
obviously we've seen a flurry of executive orders redefining words,
you know, banning people from the military, taking medical care
away from people based on on psychological ideas as opposed
to h to biological. I mean, we're seeing violations of
(19:48):
the Constitution. It's we're all under attack and and we're
all in a lot of pain. I think I'm just
gonna leave it at that. Now. Having said all of this,
this is also an excellent opportunity. It's an opportunity for
if you look at the queer community, there's generally not
(20:11):
a lot of unity. We have a you know, a
progress flag, and we say, okay, well, this is everybody
LGBTQ ia plus you've got two spirits. You know, we
make out like there's a unity, but generally we leave
each other behind. And this is a time that we
all get to come together because there's no way right now.
(20:34):
I'm on the chopping block. Many of my friends, my
colleagues are on the chopping block. But this administration wouldn't
stop there. If you look at some of these executive orders,
it also targets it's pretty much any minority. Actually going
to rephrase that, it's anybody who's not part of the
Trump administration. Damn I said his name again. I gave
(20:55):
it power. But it's it's pretty much anybody who is
not part of the administration. Everybody's on the chopping block.
In fact, they're probably a minority. The people that this
administration would serve is now is probably a minority. So
this is an opportunity, It's what I want to say.
(21:16):
It's an opportunity for us all to unite and show
what real America is like, what real love is like
you mentioned Yeah, so I'm finished, go ahead, So.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You know, as you mentioned before. But also I want
to say this with storytelling. Storytelling is a very powerful
tool for activism. And the more that we hear the
different narratives, the more that we realize the identity is
not only once, that's fit all experience. So what role
do analogy and storytelling play and shifting perspectives on gender?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Oh my gosh, that is a beautiful question. I am
so happy to answer this question. I love using story
First of all, I love being a storyteller. I love
to my friend Morgan and I Hi Morgan. Morgan's in
the chap by the way, and by the way, Minnie
Saint Clair, what a Saint Claire. That what a perfect
(22:18):
way of saying that what I'm described were systemic barriers.
And thank you for your for your your I can't
think of the word I want to say approval, But anyway,
I love being a storyteller. And part of what Morgan
and I did we drove. We just drove for thirteen hours,
just telling each other stories, just making up characters and
(22:39):
doing crazy things. What's important with stories is that it's
it's generally easy to put yourself into a story. We
see ourselves in a story, and so like I actually
I spoke to I spoke to somebody about marketing really,
so representation to marketing. I'm just trying to figure out
(23:01):
how to package this. But she was asking me. She says, well,
what is you know, what is it like to go into, say,
a department store and look for clothes? And I said, oh,
you know, when I first started, it was really hard
because I don't know exactly what to look for, what brands?
How do I find all these things? Then I put
them on what's going to shape my or you know,
(23:24):
make my body shape look best? And I said, you know,
it's kind of like what did you do when you
were thirteen? And she goes, oh, same, right, I had
to go to a department store and try on everything
because who knew what I was going to like? And
we did this three or four times she said, well,
what was it like learning various other aspects makeup, hair, whatever,
(23:46):
and I every time I said what did you do?
And she said same, And I'm like, right, See, growing
up growing up feminine means that you just learned certain things.
Growing up masculine means you learn and certain things. But
we're always experimenting and it's the same experimentation whether I
did it or whether you did it. So storytelling is
(24:08):
super important because if I can tell you what I did,
I think you'll see me differently. The reason why I
like to do shows like this, which, by the way,
thank you for the invitation. The reason why I love
doing these shows is because I want people to look
at me and say, this is somebody who's articulate. Hopefully,
this is somebody who's articulate. This is somebody who's intelligent,
(24:31):
and this is not a weird person because the media
likes to use caricatures, and that's not our story. That's
almost nobody's story. So this is another aspect of normalizing,
like I want to do. This is just making each
of our stories part of the human experience so that
(24:54):
nobody is othered. So I hope that I hope that
touched on everything you hoped I will.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But you know it did it? Did you know?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Because even as you're speaking right now, you know how
we generalize a lot of things. Things I generalize even
for me, you know, being a form an adult star.
You know, it's everything is so generalized. This is what
it is. And it's not that it's not black and white.
There are shades of gray that is within all of that.
So let me ask you this because I know at
a point in time, and I'm going to be very honest,
(25:23):
there were and I don't know how true this is,
is that when it came to transgender, when it came
to he, she, her, and come to the woman, from
a natural born woman to a transgender there was a
war that was going on between those two because there
were in what I was reading, is there there was
(25:45):
a lot of things that they wanted to take away
from the natural born woman. For one instant that I
thought that was so silly, it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Was the song by.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I'm a Natural Woman and yeah, that that song. You know,
for me, I'm not gonna lie. I was like, the hell,
why why we cannot use that? Because that is who
we are? That song was there.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Before you know anything. So let me ask you, what
is your take on that.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
It's so here, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a story.
All right. I met somebody so I've put videos on
TikTok because I love that, and I met somebody there
and she had had uh pcos. So it's polycystic ovarian syndrome.
I think I got that right. And as a result,
(26:39):
she she had every a full hysterectomy, so that's her
uterus was removed, her her fallopian tubes, the ovaries were removed.
And one of the first questions she asked me because
she says, oh, I saw your videos. You look neat,
And I'm like, thanks, and she goes, hey, I had
a full hysterectomy. And I went, oh, gosh, I'm sorry.
And she goes, how different are we, like biologically are
(27:02):
we different? And I went, no, I guess not, because
like after surgery, I don't have a uterus, I don't
have ovaries. She doesn't have a uterus. She doesn't have ovaries.
What is the difference between us? Why why would we
make a distinction between the two of us, Because according
to at least executive orders, my friend is a woman,
(27:27):
but I am not. But she has no parts that
that that differ from mine at this point after surgery.
So hopefully this this this story is illustrating everything. Do
I think Do I think that transgender women women steal
anything away from from cisgender women. No, because our bodies
(27:48):
are not. They're not just genetics first of all, and
they're also not clear cut. Genetics is nowhere near clear cut.
We we know so little. I mean, we finished the
Human Genome project some twenty three years ago, I think
it was many many years ago, and we said, oh,
we totally know everything about humans, but we don't. Every
(28:11):
single person is unique. You go to the doctor and
if he goes, oh, you need vitamin D or something,
not everybody needs as much vitamin D as you do.
All of our bodies are different. And so I guess
to I mean, by the way I love that song,
the Aretha Franklin song, I mean maybe in part because
I love to sing it and go, yeah, you make
(28:33):
me feel like a natural woman. So anyway, I guess
I'm gonna say what I would say to it is
that bodies are not the genitalia. Bodies are not even
the the glands that make estrogen or testosterone. Because you
could expand this out. You can go, well, why should
you come into my bathroom? Why should you play in
(28:54):
my sports? And it's just more complicated than that. If
you look at sports in particular, which I know you
didn't ask me, because look at this, so we've like,
let's look at American football. There are major leagues, right,
(29:15):
and then there's my Lucy have the NFL, and then
you might have people on the CFL, which, by the way,
I have a podcast coming out with an NFL a
retired NFL guy tomorrow who's a fantastic interview by the way,
quick plug. I guess sorry. Anyway, if you look at that,
we have major leagues, we have minor leagues. How do
(29:36):
we distinguish those. It's not by sex, right, Like we're
not going hang on, we're not sure if you're going
to make it to NFL. Let's check. Okay, nope, you
got it in the pants, go on to the NFL.
It's based on ability, right. They don't get a quarterback
who's like, who can't throw very far? I know, kind
of fuck all about football here, Okay, so bear with
(29:58):
me a little bit. Blacks, the guy who throws it right,
I don't know. Okay, thanks Mike, so anyway, but it's
based on ability. Right when you looked at the Olympics
last year, when when we had uh Emmani Kahlif right,
(30:20):
who was accused of being transgender. She's a cisgender woman,
and I have no doubt if I got into a
boxing ring with her, she'd knock me right the fuck out.
I'd be lying on the ground, not because you know,
it's not because she's transgender, but because she's a much
more capable boxer than I am. So when you look
(30:41):
at sports, when you look at pretty much anything, none
of our bodies are are universal. They're not. There's there
are no like really clear cut categories with the exception
of ability. You're a good football player, you're a good boxer.
It doesn't make a difference if you have overreas or testicles.
Some of us are better at things than others. So
(31:04):
did that give you any answers whatsoever?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I just no, no, you know, because I'm because I'm
thinking and I'm making sure I want to stay.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I guess with the estrogen, you.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Know, we we've looked at that that men masculinity. When
you a little bit more powerful than women in certain things,
you know what I'm saying. And so it seems to
be that it's not a fair competition when they're able
to when transgenders are able to come into a sport
(31:36):
against a woman, especially when my thing is I played
basketball and track.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Oh, I played back track and so and.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm just gonna be really honest if I thought that
I felt that it was a and maybe it's because
I'm ignorant to the fact of some information and that
could be a lot of things that someone else, that
is that I was born a many biologically and just
transgender over you know, to you know, whatever it is
(32:06):
that caused you that they have a disc they have
advantage over me.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
You know, because of that, you know. And so I'd
be like, wow, wait, hold on, like where it.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Please forgive me when I say this is that could
we just have and this might sound so in this
really come this is And as I say this, know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That my heart is genuine.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I'm like, just bring another category because we got the
male the female in the transgender? Yeah, can we can
we do that? Would that be you know, becauseuse universe?
Would that be love for all of us to be able.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
To do that. No, one doesn't see anybody stepping on
anybody toes, you know, is it? You know you understand
you I do and just crack anybody.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
I'm like, you know, no, it's it's a it's a
great question. And I mean, if you think of it
this way too, right, and supposedly there's only one to
two percent of the population that is transgender or gender nonconforming,
and if you were to look at it that, you go, well,
it's just a tiny percentage. Anyway, how about it if
we just keep them out of sports like that's you know,
(33:27):
we just do that. But but I want to give
you my experience because because I so, I ran a
marathon in two thousand and two. I was thirties, was
thirty one years old. I'm kind of a miserable runner.
I'm not a very good runner. You know, if there
are any runners out there, I was. I got as
good as about an eight minute thirty second mile. So
(33:50):
like a miserable runner. Now that I've transitioned, so I
don't I got surgery, right, I've got nothing that generates
testosterone any more than your body does. Because because your
body makes testosterone, my body or my brain still does,
but only your brain does. Well, you're over east to
you a little bit. But my point was going to
(34:10):
be that I've slowed down about three minutes a mile
from through during transition. Now admittedly I'm older, but I've
removed my source of testosterone. Like if I were just
to say, yes, I'm a woman and now I'm in basketball.
All of a sudden, you got Rodman who comes into
you know, w n B A. Sure he goes, well,
(34:34):
that's kind of odd. But if Rodman got the got surgery,
if Rodman had been had been taking estrogen, I lost
a lot of muscle mass. He would too. I lost
a lot of endurance. I lost a lot of strength.
He would too. Because it's it's the hormonal balance that
differs here. You're each human. Every human body will respond
(34:59):
both to estrogen and testosterone. I just had a preponderance
of a predominance of testosterone. You had a predominance of estrogen.
But I've had a predominance of estrogen now for running
on three years, and most of them I'm not sure
how much you can see, but most of this is me.
I do have a little I got a little help,
but my butt got big. It was always big, but
(35:22):
now I have a big, huge, a big huge ass.
I changed. My body changed because my body responded to
estrogen just like yours did. So anyway, I don't have
an answer. That's why I would rather look at capability
and say, would I be able to beat up in
Monte khlif than put me into the Olympics with her?
(35:44):
If I can't, then put her above me, like put
me in classes way below. You know, That's what I would.
So I guess what I'm saying to answer your question directly,
like Rodman wouldn't end up in the WNBA because these
you know, a foot taller than everybody whatever, you know,
whatever it might be. And so if we thought of it,
(36:08):
if we thought of it that way, you know, maybe
maybe it would it would blend more, blend more, uh
more smoothly. But I don't have a good answer. I
will just say my experience is that, like, there's no
way I could compete in men's sports it this way.
There's no way, not a chance in hell. I couldn't
couldn't before because I was never very sporty, right, but
(36:31):
it's worse now because I just I don't have a
source of testosterone to provide the extra strength and power
and everything that you brought up so that help answer anything.
Just muddy the.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
One just a little all right?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
So well. One of the most compelling aspects of your
work is how you emphasize on identity, and not just
concerned about trans gender individuals, but from one Why is
identity critical for every human being?
Speaker 6 (37:00):
I can sum that up in one sentence. I chose
not to. I chose to suppress my identity and it
almost killed me. That's it. You want to live, you
want to be happy. You have to figure out who
you are and you have to express that. You have to.
(37:22):
There isn't a choice in this, there's not at all.
And I know there are people who will say, no, no, no,
it's all nurture.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
You get born into a family, you learn what the
family is. No, there's nature. We are born this way
in some way. You were born your way. I was
born my way. Everybody in the chat is born their way.
We have no choice but to be who we are
because each of us is who we are as our creator,
(37:51):
however you might put that made you. So that's it.
That's why identity is critical, because if we don't express
ourselves we don't live our lives, and I wanted to
exit and now I want to live now. I love
my life, and I love my friends, my family, I
(38:14):
love the world. I'm trying to love my country. My
country is having trouble loving me for a little bits here.
It'll come back, you know it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (38:24):
But yeah, did that answer that?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
All right? Yay did? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You did?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
You did? And thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
You know, some people, they may think that gender is
only relevant when it comes to transgender indivision, but in reality,
if it affects all of us, what would you say
to someone who believes gender is just something weird transition
people need to worry about.
Speaker 6 (38:47):
Mm hmm. There's so a great example. So Judith Butler
in nineteen ninety one published so this is a philosopher
for anybody who doesn't know Judith Butler. They published a
book called Gender Trouble in nineteen ninety one, and that
was one of the first expressions of the idea that
gender is a social construct. And from Butler's work, some
(39:10):
of what contributed to that is like, if I were
to give you three characteristics and ask you whether they
were masculine or feminine, Well, here, let's do it live
on the air. If I were to say long hair,
lavish makeup, and high heels, are those masculine or feminine?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
You would think society would say that that's feminine.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Right. If you look at pre revolution France, those are
all highly masculine because you had big wigs to make. Yeah,
it was a status symbol to have to have fake hair.
Makeup made them look more powerful, heels made them taller
so that they could be more imposing. Those were highly
(39:56):
masculine characteristics. So because your question, your question was what
would what would I say to people you know who
say that gender is for the weird, is only for
the weird. Gender changes, gender expression changes depending upon who
you what time you you act, the time and the place.
(40:21):
It was an interesting So I went to Thailand for
to get my surgery, and there were there was I
remember walking through a shopping mall, which, by the way,
if you haven't been to Thailand, oh it's so beautiful.
It's such an amazing place. But I was walking through
a shopping mall and I saw a picture there was
a guy who had this amazing makeup because his lips
(40:44):
were made up really beautifully. This great eye makeup and
this was a normal advertisement. It was I mean, it
was an advertisement. Went just a guy walking by. And
the reason I bring him up is because I he
a man. He's expressing what men look like. And I
wondered if I had been born in Thailand today and
(41:08):
it would have been okay for me to express myself
like that with makeup, would I ever have wanted to
transition gener Our society is the way we express ourselves
is very socially contextual. So it is not for just
the weird, because each of us does it, right. I mean,
(41:31):
you chose purple purple streaks in your hair for some reason,
presumably because you like them. I'm not gonna guess it
was just for me, but you, but you chose the flowers.
You've chosen all of the things about yourself. Mike has
dog bound, Mike has done all of the uh, all
(41:53):
of his expression, assuming he himn pronounced sorry Mike, all right,
But you know, we choose all of these things. We
develop gender, we don't inherit it right, and so so
it's not for the weird, it's for everybody. Every single
person had to go through this and experiences it. So
(42:17):
that's what I would say, it's ridiculous to think that
some people just sort of magically appear. They go, look,
my identity is finished, my gender is finished. Because we
develop identity always, it's an not going process. You're not
going to be the same tomorrow as you are today.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Right, So let me ask you this, knowing that you
decided and you chose that I'm getting ready to make
a change at fifty two years old, how would you
what advice would you give to someone to say, they're
twenty thirty years old, they feel like they're child. What
would that conversation be to that twenty thirty a forty
(43:01):
year old person to all their selves now or who
they are?
Speaker 6 (43:07):
Yeah, this is the work that I do. I mean,
first of all, the writing and the podcast that podcasting
that I do, videos I make, I do coach people
through gender transition. The first the first so I would
say two things, and the first one is the most important.
(43:27):
Be safe. You don't want to express something that your
social environment will attack you for. Don't don't get yourself hurt.
Get to an environment where you can be safe first
if you need to. And then the second thing is
(43:47):
it sounds so silly, but like think about yourself I
have journals and journals of just me writing with a
pen on paper. Who am I? What's important to me?
These are questions I know we don't really want to ask,
because if you ask yourself who am I? You might
(44:09):
come up with an answer that's different from what, say,
our government wants you to be, what your parents want
you to be, what your church wants you to be,
what your neighborhood wants you to be, any of these,
and that's where we start to go astray. We put neighborhoods, church, governments,
(44:31):
parents above self, and then we all hurt. So who
am I? Ask the question who am I? And right
and write and write and write or type whatever, But
ask yourself who are you? It took me fifty It
was about fifty four years, because it took about two
(44:52):
years of transition before I finally Sorry, I'm going to
get emotional here. It took me about fifty four years
before I finally was able to look at myself in
the mirror and go, oh, I am Amethysta. And I
owned that as a as a I own that as
(45:16):
a badge.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Jesus, No, no, go ahead, you're good, you you are
so good.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
I own this. Thank you. I own this as a
badge of pride. Now that i'm I was able to
I'm able now to look in the mirror and go,
I see me. And it was so many years that
I looked at the mirror and said, I don't know
who that is? So who am I as the is
(45:43):
the big, big question? Sorry, I got a little no.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I you know what.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
I have another podcast called The Season of Stuff Love. Yeah,
it's my daily podcast, and I talk about this is
where we have that intimate relationship with ourselves and we
love ourselves. We have to understand every bit a part
of us and who am I? It is one of
the biggest things beside where anybody else think of you?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
What is your identity? What are you? And that's breaking
all the.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Limited limitation that people believe that people put on us.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
And it's hard to break from that. It's very challenging.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
And so when that came to my heart and my
spirit to create that podcast, you know, it was just like, yeah,
this is it and just you. I want to thank
you so much for even being courageous enough to stand
in yours truth and your story and decide on who
you wanted to be and show your authentic self because
a lot of us out there we continue to wear
(46:46):
the mask and not shake the mask off because we're
looking for validation outside, or we feel fear because no
one will love us. So let me ask you a question,
because you spoke of you having a are you still
with your wife to this day?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Yes, we're still together. We you know, there are changes
we had to make, right and I will tell you
right at the very beginning, I didn't want to hold
her hands because I didn't want I didn't want people
to think less of her that she was with, you know,
(47:24):
somebody like I am, somebody was going through gender transitions.
So I don't want to hold her hands. And now,
you know, for the most part, when I go out
in public, I don't get it. I don't get weird looks.
I do get people to go, what the wow, purple hair? Wow,
what happened there? You know? But I don't get people
who look at me funny. And now we walk hand
(47:45):
in hand and it just looks like a lesbian couple
and we will still get some looks. But to answer
the question, we're still together. There are there are just
changes that we've made. The best thing is that I'm
three years ago. I wasn't capable of being close to
(48:06):
anybody because I wasn't even close to myself. I didn't
have the self love as you mentioned. I really hated
myself and that keeps you from being able to love
anybody else. And who would have thought. I was like, well,
I've been in this relationship almost twenty five years. In
a month, we will have been together twenty five years.
(48:28):
And I look back at twenty five years and I go,
I was never really capable of loving her. There was capable.
Never was capable of loving my son. Yeah, now I can, Yeah,
because I hadn't loved myself right, and so now I can.
So Ultimately, what happens is that a relationship is better
(48:49):
because because I came out. I don't that came out
as a like a queer sounding thing, but like what
everything that was inside has has can come out of
me now Yeah, and it's it's I got to tell you,
I'm so, it's such a beautiful thing. It's so beautiful.
(49:10):
When I've when I've spoken to people, so during my coaching,
any of the coaching practice, I've had people I've had
people say, you know, i'd really like X y or C.
And I go, cool, let's work toward it. And they
go like I can do this, and I go absolutely,
(49:34):
and I've seen I've seen eyes that are kind of
dead just light up, and I go, it was the
birth of a human here right before you were a shell,
birth of a human happening right here. It's it's amazing,
it's amazing. This is why I'm so passionate about this,
(49:55):
because people wake up, people become truly become an and
it's it's I'm just gonna say, it's beautiful. I'm sorry.
I could go on for the next discussion about it.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
You know I love when I I love watching someone
living their life. If you know me, I see your
purple hair, you know, and that is a sign of
I am me, I am who I am, and I
want to be seen. So you you know that, right,
(50:32):
that's just you. I want to I want.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
To be seen. So let me say this to you.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
So when you walking around, you hold that woman's hand,
you hold your wife hand, because that is support that
you can't get from nowhere else.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Do you understand she was chosen exactly for you, exactly
for you. And the thing is is that this is
just a.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Tip of what you're going to do in your life,
just like and so that's apportive.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
If you don't hold her hand and walk with your
head hair, Hi, don't ever let me hear you say
again like no, no, we were here, now we hear.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, this is this is my love of this is
my lady. Yeah, this is my Bonnie to my Bonnie.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
I will hold on. I will hold on, you know what,
just for a callback now Now she makes me feel
like a natural woman.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Well see, there you go. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You know, Amy, This has been such a very enlightening
conversation and I enjoyed it. But before we wrap with
this one your final thoughts that you like to leave
with our listeners. And when it comes to understanding identity, engender.
Speaker 6 (51:58):
My entire my entire work is is founded on two principles.
And so here we go. I have this completely completely
ready for you, not that I knew you were going
to ask, but there are two principles. The first is
that your identity belongs to you. Nobody else. You know
who you are, and so nobody else can tell you
(52:19):
you're wrong. You know your identity belongs to you. That's
the first uh, first statement in the first foundation there.
The other statement is your purpose in life, the reason
you're here. That there to put it in whatever language,
your purpose for living is to express that.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, yeah, beautiful, to do it, go do it beautiful.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much,
thank you so much. Now I want to do is
tell them where can they find you at? Where can
if they if they need your service, where give it
to us?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Drop it to us?
Speaker 6 (52:59):
Thank You's a great question. My personal website is Amethysta
dot io, So that's the uh, that's the gem amethyst
with an A on the end dot io. You can
find all my social media stuff there. You can follow me,
you can watch my YouTube stuff, my TikTok stuff. Usually
they overlap if you're looking for my professional sort of
(53:22):
philosophical musings, my articles, the podcasts I do, which are
not always philosophical, so I try to make jokes and
stuff too. But that is a gender identityToday dot com
and there's a link from Amethysta dot io over to
gender Identity today dot com as well. But yeah, I
(53:43):
would love to I would love to talk to anybody.
I one of the things that the people have said, Wow,
so crazy about you is that I'm willing to talk
about this experience and engage with people because you have
to meet people where they are, not where you are
if you're going to explain, So so that's it. I will.
That's it. Naomi.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much. This has
been this has been so enlightening.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
It's been a great interaction with energy and just just
hearing your story, it's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
I'm just watching you shine.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Just so bright. And again, happy birthday not only on
fifty five, but also on three. Yeah you know what
I mean, Yeah yeah. And to our listeners, I encourage
you to engage in this conversation about identity beyond what
you think that you know. I want you to share
(54:38):
your thoughts with us by using hashtag bridging identity. And
I want you to check out on these work and
continue exploring these discussions in your own communities.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
And next time we are diving into another.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Powerful conversation that you won't want to miss, So stay
tuned again. Thank you, beautiful, thank you so much for
joining us, and thank you to everyone listen to BTG Cood,
thank you for being just so great. Well well, I
guess today and until next time. You know what I
always says, be good to one another.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
In yourself and always keep you safe.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Have an amazing, amazing what we can I rep beautiful people,
but that is a rep for another episode of Acts
Naomi Breathing the Gap, And I hope today's conversation.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Has such such beautiful within you and gave.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
You the two to elevate your love life to the
next level. And I want you to remember, transformation doesn't
happen overnight. It happens one conversation, one choice, in one
moment of courage nytime. So you have everything within you
to create the love and the interpacy that you deserve.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
So don't forget to subscribe hooks if you down, so
you would never look to another ness. So share this,
just come on with me to heal it and let's
keep dealing with some.
Speaker 6 (55:54):
As comedy to Moment.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our Heart Radio,
and We're podcast my Ammoment. You can follow me on Instrument,
TikTok and all social platforms at ads Naomi and for
our daily inspiration.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
And behind the Sea.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
So until next week, keep growing, keep loving, and remember
to always do. This is your girl the guy Nowami
Banks here, I'll see you next time. Goanna ax Naomi
Virgin for day
Hey, my beautiful people, but welcome back to X Time,
a bridge gap podcast. I'm your host, family Banks, But
as we closed our Pride Month of twenty twenty five,
I wanted to share something.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Really special with you.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
At a few months ago, I had an incredible live
guest conversation that I knew deserve the perfect moment to
reach all of you on every platform, and that moment
is now what today's episode is about.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So much more than.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Just understanding the LGPDQ in the community. It's about understanding
the beautiful complexity of human identity that lives within all
of us. Whether you're questioning and exploring, or simply want
to be better to understand the people in your life,
this conversation will open your heart and expand the perspective.
(00:44):
Today I was joined by the amazing I need Herk,
a transgender author, podcaster, and activist who reminds us what
gender isn't just about one community. This is about the
human experience that we all navigate from the side is
behind the identity to deeply personal stories of transformation. We're
(01:05):
bridging gaps and building understanding. So grab your favorite drink,
get comfortable, and let's dive into this powerful conversation about identity, authenticity,
and the courage it takes to livish yourself, because at
the end of the day, we all deserve to feel
the natural, beautiful humans that we are. So let's first act.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
To welcome to a podcast like no other.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get ready for insightful conversations, diverse perspectives, and the touch
of inspiration.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
This is Ask Naomi Bridging the Gap podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Join your host, the dynamic Naomi Banks as she delves
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(02:14):
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Together, then they've been dynamic heard.
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About one of these From thought provoking discussions to moments
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(02:39):
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Speaker 2 (02:50):
ZAMS conversation today. I am so riched for it.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I am so good Joining me today is a wonderful
I me Eric I mean is a transgender op podcaster
and activists who is committed to normalizing conversations about gender identity.
But before we bring her to the stage, we're gonna
take a quick break. All right, it's your gurty, got
its banks here on X name of Vision, got podcasts,
and we'll.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Be right back.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Washington wells into two focuses on healing always for me,
if I look good, then I feel good. If I
feel good, then I share the good. If I share
the good, then I celebrate the good. If I celebrate
the good, then I live the good. So I can
be paid to be my greatest. But I have to
learn the good to be the good.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So what does it take to be the greatest?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It's as simple as a free fifteen minute consultation. Be
kind to yourself and He'll always.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What are some commoners that prevent people from heye, your
gurty god is not me? Banks here from the season
and Stuff Love Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, I would say remorse.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
So shame and guilt is a very emotion.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And these are one of the many amazing conversations that
we have every day Monday and Friday right here in
the season and podcast with myself now and we Banks
as well as our resident therapist, doctor Will Washington Washington.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, it makes.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Institute come by, relationships come by a lot of time.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I'm afraid of how people will look at us and
so that compassion can't enter.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You can hit us all over this season of Some
Love Podcasts dot Com.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
With the truth? Is it all right?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, How are you?
Speaker 6 (04:43):
I'm doing okay? Hello, Naomi, you're looking amazing, by the way,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
We're twinning right now. We are definitely right to huh
you think?
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You teach it out for every guest, right.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You think?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And again, welcome to the show. I am so excited
for this show.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
BTG crew.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Hey, hey, we got a nice little live crowd right
here that as commenting as we speak right now. But
today's episode is titled Bridging the gap and understanding identity
and gender. Well, we explore the science of gender, the
personal stories, activism, and the universal relevance of identity. You know, listeners,
I encourage you to engage with us on the social
media using hashtag bridging identity to share your thoughts on reflections.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So less began.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All right, So let's start by breaking down some of
the science behind gender. I mean, many people hear the
word sex and gender, right and they assume that we
mean the same thing. So can you explain the distinction
between them and why it's important?
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Absolutely if you look at at early biologists. So I'm
gonna do a little history lesson because I could talk
about all kinds of like science y stuff, genetics, or
we could talk about various pieces of of whatever, lots
of biology. But if you if you look at early biologists,
they were trying to classify species and they said, okay,
(06:14):
look we can figure We figured out that some species
reproduce sexually, so it takes at least two organisms to
to to reproduce, and so we classified the two different
types by the size of one cell. What's called a
gamm eat and that's sperm or ova. These are pretty
obvious but then we realized there were some species that
(06:38):
could produce both sperm and ova, so that each organism
could could produce both. Sometimes they would produce them sequentially.
They'd start off making one gamme eat and change over
to something else. Sometimes they would change because of social pressures,
like they're a fish that everybody starts off female and
(07:00):
then one of them will turn mail based on social pressures.
So biologists said, we need something else. Sex is too
limited if we just say what what cell do you make?
It didn't It doesn't explain enough. And so the best
way to define this, or at least in my own words,
(07:20):
is to say that sex is sex makes sense when
you're having one act of reproduction, and gender, which is
your individual expression of biology, biochemistry and the social environment
is gender. So gender is pretty much anything I like
to think of it like this, Sex makes sense when
(07:42):
you've gotten to the bedroom. Gender is everything else that
gets you to the bedroom. That's I think that's a
good way to think of it.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So right, that's that's an important clarification.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think a lot of a lot of misconceptions stems
from the idea that biology is simple.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I want to react, right, you know, identity is influenced
by a combination of biological, social, and psychological factors. So
what are some of the biggest myths, the biggest myths
or misunderstandings that you come across from with disgusting gender
with people?
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Probably the biggest one, so the idea that gender is binary.
I mean you've said, you know, the big word is biopsychosocial, right,
So biology, psychology, sociology. I love So when people say, oh, well,
gender is binary, and then and then ask me, so
it's supposed to be a challenge, like, I go, how
do I answer this? People say how many genders are there?
(08:38):
I say, only one yours? Because that's what you can understand.
You can't understand everything about me. You can't understand my biology.
You don't live in my body. I know how much
we're twinning, but you don't live in my body, right,
you don't live in my head. So you can only
understand your own identity, your own expression of gender. So
(09:00):
I would say that's the biggest myth is that people
come at me and say, well, there's man and woman,
that's it, and you go, but everybody has different expression. Actually,
because let me change my answer a little bit forgive me,
I'd say the biggest myth is that gender only applies
to humans, because gender applies to all biology, cats, dogs, chimpanzees, trees, rhododendrons,
(09:29):
bring me, give me a species. Whatever you had, gender applies,
and we seem to think it's only a human thing.
And that's why you'll have some president, not all, thanksfully,
but some presidents who are write executive orders trying to
say I'm going to redefine words that are owned by science.
(09:49):
The myth is that it's a political thing as opposed
to a biology. It's a definition made by biologists to
cover all of the expression that we see in in
you know, the richness of biology thing. That's the biggest
myth that I got.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Hm, you know, thank you for that answer. So let's
get it.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Let's get personal. So you have a model that you
say that I absolutely love making transgender normal in twenty
twenty two. So can you share what that means to
you and how your journey has shaped your active activistess.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
Oh gosh, yes, what a beautiful question. When I when
I made that little, that little slogan making transgender normal
since twenty twenty two, The the idea is that when
I so, here's what happened. I started transitioning gender. I
was fifty two years old, and it and it just
I started writing. I thought, I've got to write about
(10:46):
this because all I did was put on an estrogen patch,
and all of a sudden, my head cleared up, my
thoughts were my thoughts were more clear, my emotions were
under control. I just felt in general so much better.
And I said, well, I'm a scientist, right, I started
off as a biologist, a geneticist, so let me explore this.
(11:08):
And so I started writing about it, and I thought, Okay,
I'm writing about the transgender experience. But pretty quickly I realized, no,
I'm writing about like an LGBTQ experience. And then I
realized that gender is something we all do. Like you
had to develop your gender. You part of developing your
gender expression that has been to add some purple in
(11:29):
your hair. We do this all our lives. It's not
my it's not just for me, it's not just for
the queer community. It's for every single human. And so
when I talk about gender and say that it's normal,
it's because each one of us has to develop this.
So so that was part of the journey. I started
off very very I got to fifty two years old
(11:51):
and I was so tired and hurting very badly. And
when I started transition, I mean I turned into somebody
very happy and who really wants to live. And I
don't think I was ever able to say that in
my life before that, I wanted to live. And it's
because I was suppressing who I was. That's what our
(12:12):
society wants us to do, suppress who we are in
whatever ways you can look at entrenched sexism, entrenched racism.
We have a Western society is very good. It's saying,
don't be who you are, be who we want you
to be. So if we can make the idea that
the idea that each of us has to develop who
(12:33):
we are normal because it is because each of us
does this, then transgender being transgender is totally normal. I
did the same process you did, just got to a
different destination.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So right, so let me ask you this, because yeah
with me before that is your birthday just past?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Happy birthday?
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yes? Yeah, yesterday?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, yes, happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So you you mentioned just a few moments ago that
you were fifty two when you when you transition, You
transitioned over. So let me ask you what came What
made you say, Okay, it's time, it is time for
me to make that move. It is time for me
to embrace all of me.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
What was it?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So I knew this, I was well aware by about
four years old. I knew I was a girl by
eight years old. I could tell that people were treating
me differently. So from about eight years old until fifty two,
it was just pushing it all aside. I actually looked
into transition in two thousand and one, so originally, you
(13:36):
know a little more than twenty years ago. I was
going to transition then, and it was much more difficult.
So I'll give you I'll give you a really personal
story because in twenty eleven, well in twenty ten, we
found out that my wife was pregnant and so we
were going to have a kid, and I thought, well,
(13:56):
of course we're going to have a girl. But it
turned out to be a boy. And I thought to myself,
I don't know how to handle boys. I don't know
boy things. What the hell am I going to do?
And so what I did was say, I've got to
push all of this completely out of my head. I
have to suppress it. Until it until I don't know
(14:17):
anything that. I never knew that anything feminine because boys
need fathers and fathers are men. This is what I had,
is my mantra. Thank you Charmaine for the birthday, which
is by the way. And that was really difficult. It
took uh. I took about ten years before finally everything
(14:40):
broke down and I had a really big had a
really big mental lapse, and my wife said, listen, I've
known you for twenty whatever years. Now I need you
to explore your gender. And really, so what happened is
I had I had pushed myself aside, you know, really
(15:00):
really hid myself for a decade, and it just it
just broke apart. I was I was a very sad
and a crabby old man wanting to die. It wasn't hoping,
it was wanting and just I got to get out
of here. And so so I started thinking about it.
I really didn't want not dying. Sorry, I started thinking
about transition and I really didn't want to for the law.
(15:24):
It took six months, seven months, yeah, till it was
little of six months before I said all right, I'll
do it, because again I couldn't get out of my head.
Boys need fathers and fathers are men. And here's here's
the crazy thing. My son and I really didn't have
a relationship because I resented him, because I had to
(15:46):
push myself aside for him. And now that I've transitioned
way of a great relationship, it's a beautiful thing. My
my relationship with my wife got better, my relationship with
my son got better. I'm happy, I'm expressive. And the
idea that anybody should push themselves aside because society says
(16:12):
you should, it's ridiculous. You're harming only yourself. So hopefully
that wasn't too No, it wasn't too much of a
tear jerker.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But actually it was a tear jerker for me because
my eyes are a little watery right here.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But first of all, thank.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
You for sharing that story and the reason why, because
it's like I felt you. I felt your emotions even
when you said that in twenty eleven that your wife
was pregnant, ye hoping for a girl, and then now
there's a boy and you can't connect in that way
because now you feel like you're less than a person
to be able to help him become the man that
(16:50):
society wants him. To be and you don't want him
to go through the same things that you've been going
through since you've been four years old. And so that
kind of pulled at my heart. You know, streams is like,
oh my God, like being really trapped in your body,
(17:11):
being trapped in that body.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That you are not comfortable with, that it's.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Not truly you, and that you're unable to have a
voice to speak and.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Say you know. And I felt that.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I felt that knowing that I love my wife, I
love my son, I love with all of that, but
I cannot be I cannot give him what it is
for me unless I'm taking it. You know, we making
it a gender wise and I guess this is why
the word love is so important, and that it goes gender.
(17:45):
And when I say this, I know people are gonna say, no, Naoma,
you're wrong, No, let's let's let's do this' carell We
talk about masculinity and feminine and I know a lot
of people say that you need a father and a
mother to be able to raise a child, whether it's
a girl or whether it's a boy, and I do
(18:06):
understand that, but all in instant it takes love first.
It takes love first. And when I say this love first,
let's not talk about let's take love first.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
How the climate of.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Society is right now? And with our new elective president,
how are your emotions right now?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
How are you moving forward right now as a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Of the rights are being taken away from things are
changing every day that you would no longer be looked
at as you know, transgender, but as your birth as
a male.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
How does that make you.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Feel now that even though it's only been three years,
happy birthday again, three years of you, you know, doing that?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
How do you feel right now?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
It's really we all feel under attack. I mean, I
think I'm just gonna leave it at that. We as
soon as Trump was elected, I'll say the name was
the last time. As soon as the new administration was elected,
all of us thought, you know, what are we gonna
do this? This one one of the big campaign promises
was I'm gonna eradicate this idea that that you can
(19:26):
be different than than we want you to be. And
obviously we've seen a flurry of executive orders redefining words,
you know, banning people from the military, taking medical care
away from people based on on psychological ideas as opposed
to h to biological. I mean, we're seeing violations of
(19:48):
the Constitution. It's we're all under attack and and we're
all in a lot of pain. I think I'm just
gonna leave it at that. Now. Having said all of this,
this is also an excellent opportunity. It's an opportunity for
if you look at the queer community, there's generally not
(20:11):
a lot of unity. We have a you know, a
progress flag, and we say, okay, well, this is everybody
LGBTQ ia plus you've got two spirits. You know, we
make out like there's a unity, but generally we leave
each other behind. And this is a time that we
all get to come together because there's no way right now.
(20:34):
I'm on the chopping block. Many of my friends, my
colleagues are on the chopping block. But this administration wouldn't
stop there. If you look at some of these executive orders,
it also targets it's pretty much any minority. Actually going
to rephrase that, it's anybody who's not part of the
Trump administration. Damn I said his name again. I gave
(20:55):
it power. But it's it's pretty much anybody who is
not part of the administration. Everybody's on the chopping block.
In fact, they're probably a minority. The people that this
administration would serve is now is probably a minority. So
this is an opportunity, It's what I want to say.
(21:16):
It's an opportunity for us all to unite and show
what real America is like, what real love is like
you mentioned Yeah, so I'm finished, go ahead, So.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You know, as you mentioned before. But also I want
to say this with storytelling. Storytelling is a very powerful
tool for activism. And the more that we hear the
different narratives, the more that we realize the identity is
not only once, that's fit all experience. So what role
do analogy and storytelling play and shifting perspectives on gender?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Oh my gosh, that is a beautiful question. I am
so happy to answer this question. I love using story
First of all, I love being a storyteller. I love
to my friend Morgan and I Hi Morgan. Morgan's in
the chap by the way, and by the way, Minnie
Saint Clair, what a Saint Claire. That what a perfect
(22:18):
way of saying that what I'm described were systemic barriers.
And thank you for your for your your I can't
think of the word I want to say approval, But anyway,
I love being a storyteller. And part of what Morgan
and I did we drove. We just drove for thirteen hours,
just telling each other stories, just making up characters and
(22:39):
doing crazy things. What's important with stories is that it's
it's generally easy to put yourself into a story. We
see ourselves in a story, and so like I actually
I spoke to I spoke to somebody about marketing really,
so representation to marketing. I'm just trying to figure out
(23:01):
how to package this. But she was asking me. She says, well,
what is you know, what is it like to go into, say,
a department store and look for clothes? And I said, oh,
you know, when I first started, it was really hard
because I don't know exactly what to look for, what brands?
How do I find all these things? Then I put
them on what's going to shape my or you know,
(23:24):
make my body shape look best? And I said, you know,
it's kind of like what did you do when you
were thirteen? And she goes, oh, same, right, I had
to go to a department store and try on everything
because who knew what I was going to like? And
we did this three or four times she said, well,
what was it like learning various other aspects makeup, hair, whatever,
(23:46):
and I every time I said what did you do?
And she said same, And I'm like, right, See, growing
up growing up feminine means that you just learned certain things.
Growing up masculine means you learn and certain things. But
we're always experimenting and it's the same experimentation whether I
did it or whether you did it. So storytelling is
(24:08):
super important because if I can tell you what I did,
I think you'll see me differently. The reason why I
like to do shows like this, which, by the way,
thank you for the invitation. The reason why I love
doing these shows is because I want people to look
at me and say, this is somebody who's articulate. Hopefully,
this is somebody who's articulate. This is somebody who's intelligent,
(24:31):
and this is not a weird person because the media
likes to use caricatures, and that's not our story. That's
almost nobody's story. So this is another aspect of normalizing,
like I want to do. This is just making each
of our stories part of the human experience so that
(24:54):
nobody is othered. So I hope that I hope that
touched on everything you hoped I will.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But you know it did it? Did you know?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Because even as you're speaking right now, you know how
we generalize a lot of things. Things I generalize even
for me, you know, being a form an adult star.
You know, it's everything is so generalized. This is what
it is. And it's not that it's not black and white.
There are shades of gray that is within all of that.
So let me ask you this because I know at
a point in time, and I'm going to be very honest,
(25:23):
there were and I don't know how true this is,
is that when it came to transgender, when it came
to he, she, her, and come to the woman, from
a natural born woman to a transgender there was a
war that was going on between those two because there
were in what I was reading, is there there was
(25:45):
a lot of things that they wanted to take away
from the natural born woman. For one instant that I
thought that was so silly, it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Was the song by.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I'm a Natural Woman and yeah, that that song. You know,
for me, I'm not gonna lie. I was like, the hell,
why why we cannot use that? Because that is who
we are? That song was there.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Before you know anything. So let me ask you, what
is your take on that.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
It's so here, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a story.
All right. I met somebody so I've put videos on
TikTok because I love that, and I met somebody there
and she had had uh pcos. So it's polycystic ovarian syndrome.
I think I got that right. And as a result,
(26:39):
she she had every a full hysterectomy, so that's her
uterus was removed, her her fallopian tubes, the ovaries were removed.
And one of the first questions she asked me because
she says, oh, I saw your videos. You look neat,
And I'm like, thanks, and she goes, hey, I had
a full hysterectomy. And I went, oh, gosh, I'm sorry.
And she goes, how different are we, like biologically are
(27:02):
we different? And I went, no, I guess not, because
like after surgery, I don't have a uterus, I don't
have ovaries. She doesn't have a uterus. She doesn't have ovaries.
What is the difference between us? Why why would we
make a distinction between the two of us, Because according
to at least executive orders, my friend is a woman,
(27:27):
but I am not. But she has no parts that
that that differ from mine at this point after surgery.
So hopefully this this this story is illustrating everything. Do
I think Do I think that transgender women women steal
anything away from from cisgender women. No, because our bodies
(27:48):
are not. They're not just genetics first of all, and
they're also not clear cut. Genetics is nowhere near clear cut.
We we know so little. I mean, we finished the
Human Genome project some twenty three years ago, I think
it was many many years ago, and we said, oh,
we totally know everything about humans, but we don't. Every
(28:11):
single person is unique. You go to the doctor and
if he goes, oh, you need vitamin D or something,
not everybody needs as much vitamin D as you do.
All of our bodies are different. And so I guess
to I mean, by the way I love that song,
the Aretha Franklin song, I mean maybe in part because
I love to sing it and go, yeah, you make
(28:33):
me feel like a natural woman. So anyway, I guess
I'm gonna say what I would say to it is
that bodies are not the genitalia. Bodies are not even
the the glands that make estrogen or testosterone. Because you
could expand this out. You can go, well, why should
you come into my bathroom? Why should you play in
(28:54):
my sports? And it's just more complicated than that. If
you look at sports in particular, which I know you
didn't ask me, because look at this, so we've like,
let's look at American football. There are major leagues, right,
(29:15):
and then there's my Lucy have the NFL, and then
you might have people on the CFL, which, by the way,
I have a podcast coming out with an NFL a
retired NFL guy tomorrow who's a fantastic interview by the way,
quick plug. I guess sorry. Anyway, if you look at that,
we have major leagues, we have minor leagues. How do
(29:36):
we distinguish those. It's not by sex, right, Like we're
not going hang on, we're not sure if you're going
to make it to NFL. Let's check. Okay, nope, you
got it in the pants, go on to the NFL.
It's based on ability, right. They don't get a quarterback
who's like, who can't throw very far? I know, kind
of fuck all about football here, Okay, so bear with
(29:58):
me a little bit. Blacks, the guy who throws it right,
I don't know. Okay, thanks Mike, so anyway, but it's
based on ability. Right when you looked at the Olympics
last year, when when we had uh Emmani Kahlif right,
(30:20):
who was accused of being transgender. She's a cisgender woman,
and I have no doubt if I got into a
boxing ring with her, she'd knock me right the fuck out.
I'd be lying on the ground, not because you know,
it's not because she's transgender, but because she's a much
more capable boxer than I am. So when you look
(30:41):
at sports, when you look at pretty much anything, none
of our bodies are are universal. They're not. There's there
are no like really clear cut categories with the exception
of ability. You're a good football player, you're a good boxer.
It doesn't make a difference if you have overreas or testicles.
Some of us are better at things than others. So
(31:04):
did that give you any answers whatsoever?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I just no, no, you know, because I'm because I'm
thinking and I'm making sure I want to stay.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I guess with the estrogen, you.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Know, we we've looked at that that men masculinity. When
you a little bit more powerful than women in certain things,
you know what I'm saying. And so it seems to
be that it's not a fair competition when they're able
to when transgenders are able to come into a sport
(31:36):
against a woman, especially when my thing is I played
basketball and track.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Oh, I played back track and so and.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm just gonna be really honest if I thought that
I felt that it was a and maybe it's because
I'm ignorant to the fact of some information and that
could be a lot of things that someone else, that
is that I was born a many biologically and just
transgender over you know, to you know, whatever it is
(32:06):
that caused you that they have a disc they have
advantage over me.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
You know, because of that, you know. And so I'd
be like, wow, wait, hold on, like where it.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Please forgive me when I say this is that could
we just have and this might sound so in this
really come this is And as I say this, know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That my heart is genuine.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I'm like, just bring another category because we got the
male the female in the transgender? Yeah, can we can
we do that? Would that be you know, becauseuse universe?
Would that be love for all of us to be able.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
To do that. No, one doesn't see anybody stepping on
anybody toes, you know, is it? You know you understand
you I do and just crack anybody.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
I'm like, you know, no, it's it's a it's a
great question. And I mean, if you think of it
this way too, right, and supposedly there's only one to
two percent of the population that is transgender or gender nonconforming,
and if you were to look at it that, you go, well,
it's just a tiny percentage. Anyway, how about it if
we just keep them out of sports like that's you know,
(33:27):
we just do that. But but I want to give
you my experience because because I so, I ran a
marathon in two thousand and two. I was thirties, was
thirty one years old. I'm kind of a miserable runner.
I'm not a very good runner. You know, if there
are any runners out there, I was. I got as
good as about an eight minute thirty second mile. So
(33:50):
like a miserable runner. Now that I've transitioned, so I
don't I got surgery, right, I've got nothing that generates
testosterone any more than your body does. Because because your
body makes testosterone, my body or my brain still does,
but only your brain does. Well, you're over east to
you a little bit. But my point was going to
(34:10):
be that I've slowed down about three minutes a mile
from through during transition. Now admittedly I'm older, but I've
removed my source of testosterone. Like if I were just
to say, yes, I'm a woman and now I'm in basketball.
All of a sudden, you got Rodman who comes into
you know, w n B A. Sure he goes, well,
(34:34):
that's kind of odd. But if Rodman got the got surgery,
if Rodman had been had been taking estrogen, I lost
a lot of muscle mass. He would too. I lost
a lot of endurance. I lost a lot of strength.
He would too. Because it's it's the hormonal balance that
differs here. You're each human. Every human body will respond
(34:59):
both to estrogen and testosterone. I just had a preponderance
of a predominance of testosterone. You had a predominance of estrogen.
But I've had a predominance of estrogen now for running
on three years, and most of them I'm not sure
how much you can see, but most of this is me.
I do have a little I got a little help,
but my butt got big. It was always big, but
(35:22):
now I have a big, huge, a big huge ass.
I changed. My body changed because my body responded to
estrogen just like yours did. So anyway, I don't have
an answer. That's why I would rather look at capability
and say, would I be able to beat up in
Monte khlif than put me into the Olympics with her?
(35:44):
If I can't, then put her above me, like put
me in classes way below. You know, That's what I would.
So I guess what I'm saying to answer your question directly,
like Rodman wouldn't end up in the WNBA because these
you know, a foot taller than everybody whatever, you know,
whatever it might be. And so if we thought of it,
(36:08):
if we thought of it that way, you know, maybe
maybe it would it would blend more, blend more, uh
more smoothly. But I don't have a good answer. I
will just say my experience is that, like, there's no
way I could compete in men's sports it this way.
There's no way, not a chance in hell. I couldn't
couldn't before because I was never very sporty, right, but
(36:31):
it's worse now because I just I don't have a
source of testosterone to provide the extra strength and power
and everything that you brought up so that help answer anything.
Just muddy the.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
One just a little all right?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
So well. One of the most compelling aspects of your
work is how you emphasize on identity, and not just
concerned about trans gender individuals, but from one Why is
identity critical for every human being?
Speaker 6 (37:00):
I can sum that up in one sentence. I chose
not to. I chose to suppress my identity and it
almost killed me. That's it. You want to live, you
want to be happy. You have to figure out who
you are and you have to express that. You have to.
(37:22):
There isn't a choice in this, there's not at all.
And I know there are people who will say, no, no, no,
it's all nurture.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
You get born into a family, you learn what the
family is. No, there's nature. We are born this way
in some way. You were born your way. I was
born my way. Everybody in the chat is born their way.
We have no choice but to be who we are
because each of us is who we are as our creator,
(37:51):
however you might put that made you. So that's it.
That's why identity is critical, because if we don't express
ourselves we don't live our lives, and I wanted to
exit and now I want to live now. I love
my life, and I love my friends, my family, I
(38:14):
love the world. I'm trying to love my country. My
country is having trouble loving me for a little bits here.
It'll come back, you know it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (38:24):
But yeah, did that answer that?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
All right? Yay did? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You did?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
You did? And thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
You know, some people, they may think that gender is
only relevant when it comes to transgender indivision, but in reality,
if it affects all of us, what would you say
to someone who believes gender is just something weird transition
people need to worry about.
Speaker 6 (38:47):
Mm hmm. There's so a great example. So Judith Butler
in nineteen ninety one published so this is a philosopher
for anybody who doesn't know Judith Butler. They published a
book called Gender Trouble in nineteen ninety one, and that
was one of the first expressions of the idea that
gender is a social construct. And from Butler's work, some
(39:10):
of what contributed to that is like, if I were
to give you three characteristics and ask you whether they
were masculine or feminine, Well, here, let's do it live
on the air. If I were to say long hair,
lavish makeup, and high heels, are those masculine or feminine?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
You would think society would say that that's feminine.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Right. If you look at pre revolution France, those are
all highly masculine because you had big wigs to make. Yeah,
it was a status symbol to have to have fake hair.
Makeup made them look more powerful, heels made them taller
so that they could be more imposing. Those were highly
(39:56):
masculine characteristics. So because your question, your question was what
would what would I say to people you know who
say that gender is for the weird, is only for
the weird. Gender changes, gender expression changes depending upon who
you what time you you act, the time and the place.
(40:21):
It was an interesting So I went to Thailand for
to get my surgery, and there were there was I
remember walking through a shopping mall, which, by the way,
if you haven't been to Thailand, oh it's so beautiful.
It's such an amazing place. But I was walking through
a shopping mall and I saw a picture there was
a guy who had this amazing makeup because his lips
(40:44):
were made up really beautifully. This great eye makeup and
this was a normal advertisement. It was I mean, it
was an advertisement. Went just a guy walking by. And
the reason I bring him up is because I he
a man. He's expressing what men look like. And I
wondered if I had been born in Thailand today and
(41:08):
it would have been okay for me to express myself
like that with makeup, would I ever have wanted to
transition gener Our society is the way we express ourselves
is very socially contextual. So it is not for just
the weird, because each of us does it, right. I mean,
(41:31):
you chose purple purple streaks in your hair for some reason,
presumably because you like them. I'm not gonna guess it
was just for me, but you, but you chose the flowers.
You've chosen all of the things about yourself. Mike has
dog bound, Mike has done all of the uh, all
(41:53):
of his expression, assuming he himn pronounced sorry Mike, all right,
But you know, we choose all of these things. We
develop gender, we don't inherit it right, and so so
it's not for the weird, it's for everybody. Every single
person had to go through this and experiences it. So
(42:17):
that's what I would say, it's ridiculous to think that
some people just sort of magically appear. They go, look,
my identity is finished, my gender is finished. Because we
develop identity always, it's an not going process. You're not
going to be the same tomorrow as you are today.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Right, So let me ask you this, knowing that you
decided and you chose that I'm getting ready to make
a change at fifty two years old, how would you
what advice would you give to someone to say, they're
twenty thirty years old, they feel like they're child. What
would that conversation be to that twenty thirty a forty
(43:01):
year old person to all their selves now or who
they are?
Speaker 6 (43:07):
Yeah, this is the work that I do. I mean,
first of all, the writing and the podcast that podcasting
that I do, videos I make, I do coach people
through gender transition. The first the first so I would
say two things, and the first one is the most important.
(43:27):
Be safe. You don't want to express something that your
social environment will attack you for. Don't don't get yourself hurt.
Get to an environment where you can be safe first
if you need to. And then the second thing is
(43:47):
it sounds so silly, but like think about yourself I
have journals and journals of just me writing with a
pen on paper. Who am I? What's important to me?
These are questions I know we don't really want to ask,
because if you ask yourself who am I? You might
(44:09):
come up with an answer that's different from what, say,
our government wants you to be, what your parents want
you to be, what your church wants you to be,
what your neighborhood wants you to be, any of these,
and that's where we start to go astray. We put neighborhoods, church, governments,
(44:31):
parents above self, and then we all hurt. So who
am I? Ask the question who am I? And right
and write and write and write or type whatever, But
ask yourself who are you? It took me fifty It
was about fifty four years, because it took about two
(44:52):
years of transition before I finally Sorry, I'm going to
get emotional here. It took me about fifty four years
before I finally was able to look at myself in
the mirror and go, oh, I am Amethysta. And I
owned that as a as a I own that as
(45:16):
a badge.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Jesus, No, no, go ahead, you're good, you you are
so good.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
I own this. Thank you. I own this as a
badge of pride. Now that i'm I was able to
I'm able now to look in the mirror and go,
I see me. And it was so many years that
I looked at the mirror and said, I don't know
who that is? So who am I as the is
(45:43):
the big, big question? Sorry, I got a little no.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I you know what.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
I have another podcast called The Season of Stuff Love. Yeah,
it's my daily podcast, and I talk about this is
where we have that intimate relationship with ourselves and we
love ourselves. We have to understand every bit a part
of us and who am I? It is one of
the biggest things beside where anybody else think of you?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
What is your identity? What are you? And that's breaking
all the.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Limited limitation that people believe that people put on us.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
And it's hard to break from that. It's very challenging.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
And so when that came to my heart and my
spirit to create that podcast, you know, it was just like, yeah,
this is it and just you. I want to thank
you so much for even being courageous enough to stand
in yours truth and your story and decide on who
you wanted to be and show your authentic self because
a lot of us out there we continue to wear
(46:46):
the mask and not shake the mask off because we're
looking for validation outside, or we feel fear because no
one will love us. So let me ask you a question,
because you spoke of you having a are you still
with your wife to this day?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Yes, we're still together. We you know, there are changes
we had to make, right and I will tell you
right at the very beginning, I didn't want to hold
her hands because I didn't want I didn't want people
to think less of her that she was with, you know,
(47:24):
somebody like I am, somebody was going through gender transitions.
So I don't want to hold her hands. And now,
you know, for the most part, when I go out
in public, I don't get it. I don't get weird looks.
I do get people to go, what the wow, purple hair? Wow,
what happened there? You know? But I don't get people
who look at me funny. And now we walk hand
(47:45):
in hand and it just looks like a lesbian couple
and we will still get some looks. But to answer
the question, we're still together. There are there are just
changes that we've made. The best thing is that I'm
three years ago. I wasn't capable of being close to
(48:06):
anybody because I wasn't even close to myself. I didn't
have the self love as you mentioned. I really hated
myself and that keeps you from being able to love
anybody else. And who would have thought. I was like, well,
I've been in this relationship almost twenty five years. In
a month, we will have been together twenty five years.
(48:28):
And I look back at twenty five years and I go,
I was never really capable of loving her. There was capable.
Never was capable of loving my son. Yeah, now I can, Yeah,
because I hadn't loved myself right, and so now I can.
So Ultimately, what happens is that a relationship is better
(48:49):
because because I came out. I don't that came out
as a like a queer sounding thing, but like what
everything that was inside has has can come out of
me now Yeah, and it's it's I got to tell you,
I'm so, it's such a beautiful thing. It's so beautiful.
(49:10):
When I've when I've spoken to people, so during my coaching,
any of the coaching practice, I've had people I've had
people say, you know, i'd really like X y or C.
And I go, cool, let's work toward it. And they
go like I can do this, and I go absolutely,
(49:34):
and I've seen I've seen eyes that are kind of
dead just light up, and I go, it was the
birth of a human here right before you were a shell,
birth of a human happening right here. It's it's amazing,
it's amazing. This is why I'm so passionate about this,
(49:55):
because people wake up, people become truly become an and
it's it's I'm just gonna say, it's beautiful. I'm sorry.
I could go on for the next discussion about it.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
You know I love when I I love watching someone
living their life. If you know me, I see your
purple hair, you know, and that is a sign of
I am me, I am who I am, and I
want to be seen. So you you know that, right,
(50:32):
that's just you. I want to I want.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
To be seen. So let me say this to you.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
So when you walking around, you hold that woman's hand,
you hold your wife hand, because that is support that
you can't get from nowhere else.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Do you understand she was chosen exactly for you, exactly
for you. And the thing is is that this is
just a.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Tip of what you're going to do in your life,
just like and so that's apportive.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
If you don't hold her hand and walk with your
head hair, Hi, don't ever let me hear you say
again like no, no, we were here, now we hear.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, this is this is my love of this is
my lady. Yeah, this is my Bonnie to my Bonnie.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
I will hold on. I will hold on, you know what,
just for a callback now Now she makes me feel
like a natural woman.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Well see, there you go. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You know, Amy, This has been such a very enlightening
conversation and I enjoyed it. But before we wrap with
this one your final thoughts that you like to leave
with our listeners. And when it comes to understanding identity, engender.
Speaker 6 (51:58):
My entire my entire work is is founded on two principles.
And so here we go. I have this completely completely
ready for you, not that I knew you were going
to ask, but there are two principles. The first is
that your identity belongs to you. Nobody else. You know
who you are, and so nobody else can tell you
(52:19):
you're wrong. You know your identity belongs to you. That's
the first uh, first statement in the first foundation there.
The other statement is your purpose in life, the reason
you're here. That there to put it in whatever language,
your purpose for living is to express that.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, yeah, beautiful, to do it, go do it beautiful.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much,
thank you so much. Now I want to do is
tell them where can they find you at? Where can
if they if they need your service, where give it
to us?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Drop it to us?
Speaker 6 (52:59):
Thank You's a great question. My personal website is Amethysta
dot io, So that's the uh, that's the gem amethyst
with an A on the end dot io. You can
find all my social media stuff there. You can follow me,
you can watch my YouTube stuff, my TikTok stuff. Usually
they overlap if you're looking for my professional sort of
(53:22):
philosophical musings, my articles, the podcasts I do, which are
not always philosophical, so I try to make jokes and
stuff too. But that is a gender identityToday dot com
and there's a link from Amethysta dot io over to
gender Identity today dot com as well. But yeah, I
(53:43):
would love to I would love to talk to anybody.
I one of the things that the people have said, Wow,
so crazy about you is that I'm willing to talk
about this experience and engage with people because you have
to meet people where they are, not where you are
if you're going to explain, So so that's it. I will.
That's it. Naomi.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much. This has
been this has been so enlightening.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
It's been a great interaction with energy and just just
hearing your story, it's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
I'm just watching you shine.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Just so bright. And again, happy birthday not only on
fifty five, but also on three. Yeah you know what
I mean, Yeah yeah. And to our listeners, I encourage
you to engage in this conversation about identity beyond what
you think that you know. I want you to share
(54:38):
your thoughts with us by using hashtag bridging identity. And
I want you to check out on these work and
continue exploring these discussions in your own communities.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
And next time we are diving into another.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Powerful conversation that you won't want to miss, So stay
tuned again. Thank you, beautiful, thank you so much for
joining us, and thank you to everyone listen to BTG Cood,
thank you for being just so great. Well well, I
guess today and until next time. You know what I
always says, be good to one another.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
In yourself and always keep you safe.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Have an amazing, amazing what we can I rep beautiful people,
but that is a rep for another episode of Acts
Naomi Breathing the Gap, And I hope today's conversation.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Has such such beautiful within you and gave.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
You the two to elevate your love life to the
next level. And I want you to remember, transformation doesn't
happen overnight. It happens one conversation, one choice, in one
moment of courage nytime. So you have everything within you
to create the love and the interpacy that you deserve.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
So don't forget to subscribe hooks if you down, so
you would never look to another ness. So share this,
just come on with me to heal it and let's
keep dealing with some.
Speaker 6 (55:54):
As comedy to Moment.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our Heart Radio,
and We're podcast my Ammoment. You can follow me on Instrument,
TikTok and all social platforms at ads Naomi and for
our daily inspiration.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
And behind the Sea.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
So until next week, keep growing, keep loving, and remember
to always do. This is your girl the guy Nowami
Banks here, I'll see you next time. Goanna ax Naomi
Virgin for day
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