“The Intersection of Mental Health and Relationships” with guest Alex Olosunde

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to a podcast like no other, and get ready
for insightful conversations, diverse perspectives into touch of inspiration. This
is Ask Naomi Bridging the Gap podcast. Join your host,
the dynamic Naomi Banks, as she delves into the heart
of various topics with a refreshing blend of curiosity and
wisdom each week. Soon in as Naomi is joined by

(00:33):
special guests who bring their unique stories and expertise to
the table. It's a journey of discovery, learning and growing.
And let's not forget about the one and only dog
Pound in My money, adding his flavor and the layer
to the mix.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Together they make him dynamic.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
He or you won't want of these from thought provoking
discussions to moments of laughter and joy, and Ask Naomi
Bridging the Gap podcast offers a space where great topics
meet amazing guests. So your calendars, set your reminders, and
prepare to be entertained into life. Join Naomi Banks and
Dog Pound Mike weekly for an unforgettable podcast experience. Get

(01:09):
ready to bridge the gap, expand your horizons, and immerse
yourself in the world of Ask Naom. Subscribe now and
stay tuned for a podcast journey like no athor.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
All right, dad, my beautiful people. Well, welcome to X
Naomi Bridging the Gap podcast is where we talk about love, sex, relationship,
cultural differences, and so much more by bridging the gap
between them all and teach of the world on sex, language, attitude,
and spiritual uplifting. But this month, this month, we're doing
something special, right, we are doing something special. But before

(01:46):
I tell you that, yeah, I know who'll talk a right.
I am your host, Naomi Banks. And today we are
continuing our conversation for our week three of our Love
and Mental Health series for our Mental Health Awareness Month.
This is what we take each week this May that
we've been shining a light on the connections between love,
relationship and mental wellness. And tonight we are diving into

(02:08):
one of the most important topics yet and that's how
to navigate relationships by prioritizing mental health for yourself and
your partners. So, listeners, I want to remind you all
why this all started, and if anybody knew that's tuning in.
I want to tell you about this letter that I
was inspired by, that that I tried to appease my

(02:42):
excess and lost myself in the process. I've been diagnosed
with PDSD, and I'm not sure if I should tell
any new found lovers or just accept the fact that
I'm going to be single forever. See now, that one
sentence is what sparked this entire series, and tonight this
conversation is for him and for anyone else who's ever

(03:06):
wondered if they are lovable because of their pain and
not in spite of all. Right, So I want to
share something with you. Just the other day, it came
up on my on my ig thread and it was
so I'm just gonna read to you, and it's so heartbreaking.

(03:28):
But this reminds me of why this conversation matters so deeply. Well,
in Nebraska, there's a woman named Bailey cock coch Ko
and she has been sharing her journey publicly publicly. Her husband,
Jeremy has battled severe mental illness, has battle severe mental illness,

(03:52):
and she had started to go fund me page to
help pay for this TMS therapy. Is therepy what transcranial
magnetic stimulation after he attempted to underlive himself a few times.
And I'm trying to find the right words to say

(04:13):
without us getting flagged. Well, Apparently Bailey was doing everything
right right and she loved him openly. She used her
voice to aavigate for mental health care. But just hours
before their son's high school graduation, just the other day,
Jeremy took his life, the life of his wife and
their two sons and himself. You know, Bailey had been

(04:37):
sharing her story through Facebook page called Anchoring Hope for
Mental Health, and she was fighting for him, She was
fighting for him, and still this happened. So this is
why we're here, This is why you're here. Mental hellness.
Illness is just a private struggle. It can have public

(04:59):
general racial consequences, but if it goes untreated or unsupported,
these are the things that happen. So what I want
to do right now is I want to remind you
all that we have actually created a funding, a fundraiser
for that. We have paired up with American Health Awareness

(05:24):
Mental Health America to do that, and that's where one
hundred percent of our proceeds go to this as well
as our Mind and Heart merch right here, and I
want to thank everybody thus far that has grabbed the
merch as well as has donated. But I want to
go a little Further, I wanted to show how really

(05:46):
truly strong that our BTG crew is and how much
we care about this. You understand what I'm saying because
it touches so many different people, so many different families,
so many different individuals, and it's is I want to
be more than us just talking about it. Let's do
something about it, all right, So before we bring our

(06:08):
special panels to the stage, we're gonna take a quick break.
All right, it's your gurt. You got his Numy Banks
here on ax Naomi Bridging Podcasts and we'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Washington wells into two focuses on healing. Always for me,
if I look good, then I feel good. If I
feel good, then I share the good. If I share
the good, then I celebrate the good. If I celebrate
the good, then I live the good.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
So I can be.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Paid to be my greatest. But I have to learn
the good to be the good. So what does it
take to be the greatest. It's as simple as a free,
fifteen minute consultation. Be kind to yourself and you'll.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
Always ready to transform how you think about love and
mental health. This may join host Naomi Banks and doctor
Will Washington and expert guests on Love and Mental Health,
a power for four part series exploring relationships to the
lens of mental wellness every Thursday at six pm Pacific
Standard Time on Ask Naomi Bridging the Gap. Do you

(07:10):
have a story to share your experience matters? Email us
at Asknyomi at gmail dot com and be part of
the conversation that's changing lives.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
All right, my beautiful people will welcome back. Well before
we introduce I panel, I can't forget to shout out
dot com Mike, Mike, what's going on? All right? And
also to all the new, old and loyal BTG crew,
I want to say thank you to all of those
that have donated thus far, that came in here and
just been showing love all day every day here. But

(07:42):
also I want you to remember that every penny counts.
You know when you heard the story earlier before the
break that we need more, we need more. So I
want you to truly show them house drawn the community
that BTG can be so dog pound Mike Mikey has
put the link up once again. You can also go
to aks Naomi dot com and I'm a spell Naomi
for you if you don't know that's n why oh

(08:05):
am I And it's right there. And again, one hundred
percent of all proceeds from this this month goes directly
to them. So less introduce our incredible guests. Our incredible guests,
Yes what first? Our guest is Alex all A Sudden
and I hope I pronounce it her name right. But

(08:26):
she is a licensed marriage and family therapist, relationship coast
and a fierce advocate of emotional wellness love. She's worked
with hundreds of couples and individuals, helping them to navigate
communication breakdowns from a boundary and real work of healing
insight relationship. So Alex, thank you for being here, well welcome.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
Hello, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
I would just say I already said something like no, Ray,
all right, I appreciate you.

Speaker 6 (08:58):
No.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
That's and of course, our resident therapist, doctor Real Washington.
You know all of his things. He's a licensing clinical
counselor assistant therapist. He's also a health psychology pad, an
expert in trauma, emotional fatigue, and powerful voice in the
world of secondary healing. And hey, doctor Will.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
It's so good to be here, and it's so good
to see you, Alex. I'm slady that you can be here.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yes, thanks, So y'all ready for this conversation?

Speaker 6 (09:24):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Oh yeah, all right. So you know, I just want
to stop right here and go first to the what
I just read about what I saw on social media
just the other day. This happened just two days ago
with the family. It was actually uh a suicide unlive
than he underlive the rest of his family, less than

(09:48):
hours before his son's graduation. I know, doctor will you
and I as well as Akila lax week we had
a conversation on how kind of balancing that when with
family and having family in that process when I went
down and I read all of the well not all
of the most of her social media posts and she

(10:10):
was truly advocating for her husband for years, for years,
and they were high school sweethearts for that and this
is for both for you for and my question is
this is that how can we and I want to
make sure that I say this by because I was
talking to dog Pound Mike Michael, how when you are

(10:32):
so in love with someone and you want so hard
to save them, but they don't want to save themselves,
not because they do it purposely, because there's something that's
within them that it won't allow them to live any
any longer. How do you get through that? How do you?
You know, I guess how do you balance that away?

(10:55):
What's important? Does that make sense? Does that question make sense? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (11:00):
It does, yes, And I can say that every relationship
does have a capacity, Every relationship does have a limit,
Every relationship does have its beginning, middle, and end. And
sometimes when we go beyond our capacity, we end up
doing the exact actually the harm when we intended to

(11:21):
do well. So that's a really hard question to ask
because I've seen it before happen. I know, Alex, I
know you've seen it a lot as well.

Speaker 7 (11:31):
Yes, yeah, I would say that one of the things
that come to mind is just how we understand our
relationships and how much like stock were really willing to
put into them.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Right.

Speaker 7 (11:49):
Like doctor Will said about capacity, I think capacity is
one part of it, but I think it just has
to do with individual relationship scal ability. And that's the
thing that I find in our society that is lacking
quite a bit. And when I say that, I mean
like individual ability to be in a relationship, the skills required,

(12:12):
and a lot of people just don't understand what it
really takes, and when it comes down to it, you're
not really willing. Some people just aren't willing to do
what it takes anymore for various reasons. Sometimes you find
that it's heartbreak. I'm that you've been unfaithful and I
no longer I'm interested in trying, or i've been you've
been treating me this way for so long, I don't

(12:33):
want to do it, or I don't feel anything for
you anymore. But there are various things that can result
in that eventual end. But I do find that that's
something that is quite prevalent, and so trying to find
the balance is understanding where you ends and they begin

(12:54):
like always being able to keep that in mind and
not losing yourself in a person, because then you end
up with more tragic situations like that where you're unable
to kind of manage your emotions and unable to allow
other people to be away from that.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah, you knows. Thank you for sharing that. It is
because when I was reading that. I read it the
other day. When I was reading, I said, you know,
I'm going to bring this into the show tonight, and
I felt the reason why because I know there's probably
a lot of other voices out there that's probably in
the same situation to where for years they're going back
and forth and taking them, you know, back and forth.

(13:32):
He he's attempted four times, and it was it was
even in her hashtags on our Instagram, she was praising
that he was alive on that on a day, like
he said, hashtag Dad is alive today. You know, we
happy that Dad is alive today. And when you look
at some of the pictures that he had, you know,

(13:53):
it looked like like he really wanted to be in
with the family, just so beautiful, but then it was
like he was fighting something inside. It's just the love
that she had for this man that you can see
through every post from the video and for the words
that she shared, you know, with that, and it's hard

(14:16):
to I believe that it's hard to know the difference
on when that capacity is there, because we have I
guess you you and I talk about it sometimes, doctor will.
We have that where we want to be a superhero
or save others. You understand what I'm saying, And we
think it's so easy by just by a simple magic

(14:39):
word or something, and it's deeper than that, you know,
It's deeper than that magic word what it is when
he was diagnosed, and I know I didn't want to
go through all this, but I'm going to because it's
it's it just happened, you know, just recently, just two
days ago, so it's fresh in my mind with it.
So and that happened. They had just got him out

(15:01):
of the hospital just in time for his son's graduation,
and I was telling dog Pound Mike Mike, I said, wow,
I said. The way that I'm thinking about this is that,
and I promise you, I hope we don't get flag
for this. But he felt like he needed to underlive
them so he can leave because he felt like they

(15:23):
kept saving him or that he's not worthy to be saved.
So it's like, how who's ever listening right now and
possibly going through that? What will you? What were the
words or what kind of help would you have for
them to start on that journey to wanting to stay alive?
Does that make sense? Am I saying the right words?

Speaker 6 (15:45):
Yes? I get this a lot.

Speaker 7 (15:51):
I feel like the thing that I keep coming back
to is every day that you wake up is a
decent day. It's a decent day, and every day that
you wake up is an opportunity to have a good day.
And I think understanding that, you know, maybe it did
not happen today, maybe the person that you wanted to

(16:13):
make up with didn't receive it well.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
But tomorrow is.

Speaker 7 (16:17):
Another day and another chance at finding success, finding happiness,
finding purpose, finding fun, finding love.

Speaker 8 (16:26):
Whatever it is that you're looking for, it.

Speaker 6 (16:30):
Could be tomorrow, and wouldn't you just want to know?

Speaker 8 (16:35):
Right?

Speaker 6 (16:35):
Like?

Speaker 7 (16:37):
And so that's kind of just something that I find
myself saying to a lot of people who are struggling
with that and trying to make it through a situation
that you know, don't get too caught up fighting and
trying to maintain happiness. It's a feeling. They come and
they go. It is not meant to be a status

(16:58):
in which you stay. Otherwise we would not have other emotions, right,
And so understanding that that process, you're looking for contentment,
not happiness, and that looks a little different. Mmm.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
You know, I love that you say that, because you know,
happiness is it always seems to be the ultimate goal
of everyone. You understand what I'm saying, And we think
it's like a permanent thing, like that's the destination on
what it is, you know, on what that is the
way do you want to share something with?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, so this is going to be a little I'm
a little different. My philosophy is a little different ahead,
so I'm a little more aggressive existentialism. So for me,
the unliving is not really the end of anything. It's
actually the beginning of living. And a lot of times

(17:53):
you're not wanting to live is actually the beginning of
how you're supposed to live. Healing as a lifestyle, and
so for me, I believe that death is just as
important as living. And so my first statement is, you
know what type of unburdening do you want to create
through your death? What do you want? What do you

(18:14):
want to create? What do you think is going to create?
Because death is mean going going away, It means you're
creating another lifestyle for other people. So for me, I
would actually map out their entire life afterwards you would
go into it. So what's going to happen to her?
What's going to happen to your sons? What's going to
happen to them? What are they supposed to do? What
are they supposed to be doing? You've created all that

(18:36):
you think that because of this loss for yourself you're
going to have that, You're going to create this much
power for everybody else. How rational is that? What does
that look like for you? And what is the purpose
of your death right? Why? What is the purpose? What
is the meaning of it? Because a lot of times
that mindset is a part of the savior complex, is well, right,

(19:02):
and then how's the savior? When the savior falls, they're
usually self abusing by being the rescuer. Yeah, so after
trying to rescue everything else in your life, you end
up becoming sacrificial. So it's one of those things where
for me, it's actually very rational to to want that.
So my thing is what's the meaning of it? And

(19:22):
a lot of times they don't, don't they get tired
of trying to plan that all out because they didn't
really think that far ahead. They were just in the
in the in the passion of not wanting to live,
rather than the reality of it.

Speaker 7 (19:35):
So no, I really, I really wanted to just connect
something if it's okay, And I think it's important to
understand like the difference in style and the difference and approach. Right, So,
because of his leaning into existentialism, I am a person
who is more family systems and relational oriented. So for me,

(19:57):
it's like, Okay, let's look at you know, what's on
your relationship, Let's look at what skills you do and
don't have. Let's look at why you're having trouble getting there.
Maybe there is a diagnosis that's keeping you for being
able to manage your emotions effectively. Maybe we should get
a psychiatrist involved to help us out with that. Right,
there are a lot of things that you know, I

(20:19):
look at, but it's a little bit more relational, and
so depending on the patients, I will say that some
patients are willing to look a little deeper and really
go into that trauma space because it all leads back
to trauma usually unfortunately really in some capacity of childhood
or recent it's the basis for.

Speaker 6 (20:39):
That type of ineffective attachment style.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Okay, I truly appreciate both of you on this inside
because I know this just came up like this one,
So seriously thank you all for that, because it was
bugging me. It was on my mind, and so usually
I go down a little rabbit hole. So I was
trying not to go down the rabbit hole, but also
make aware of this that this happened, because, like you said,

(21:07):
we are in mental health Awareness month and something like
this has happened, and this is what we're talking about.
We're talking about love and mental health, and so why
not even bring this up for it? All right? So
now I got a question for our listeners right now,
all right, have you ever been in a relationship that
felt amazing on surface but emotionally exhausting underneath. Well, that

(21:31):
is what we're going to be talking about tonight, the
ways of mental health and how it affects our love
lives and how love intern can either support or sabotage
our mental wellness. So, Alex, I got a question for you.
Why is it so important to talk about mental health
inside of relationships and what are the most common challenges

(21:54):
that couples face, especially when one or both the partners
are struggling emotions?

Speaker 6 (22:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 7 (22:02):
I think important because everything that you feel is going
to be reflected onto your partner. The baggage that you
carry from the trauma, from the previous diagnosis or whatever
health mental health concerns that you have, they don't go away,
You just carry them into your relationship. And so you know,

(22:26):
it's important to be open and honest and also be
non judgmental. And I think that's something that we struggle
quite a bit with, especially in our black and brown communities.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Right, thank you for that. Let's talk about how self
love and eternal regulation create a safer connection.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
Mm hmm hmm yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
God, so for me I in my thought processing, love
can you can be addicted to love, and sometimes love
has the power to romanticize hardship and a relationship where
you think it's resilience, our relationships resilient. No, it's codependent.

(23:16):
It's not resilience. You know. Oh, we fight back and forth,
we break up to makeup. That sounds like you're trying
to role play your trauma and trying to relive your
trauma and trying to give yourself the victory. Right, And
a lot of times with self love, why we need
it is because it teaches us to be strong enough
to be vulnerable with ourselves. And we don't really take
the time out to recognize, I love what I'm feeling,

(23:40):
I love what I'm doing, but at what cost is
it doing to my partner? And sometimes we don't take
into that that take them into account. Because we love
the way that we feel, but we don't realize that's
just because you feel good doesn't make the relationship great.
And that balance is so important because you know, even

(24:00):
when they have clients that have infidelity, we realize that
cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem. Right, there's
a bigger problem behind that. But we never get through
that because the pain that hurt kind of removes us
and we forget that self love helps ground us. And
so the teacher self love in a matter of a

(24:21):
dysfunctional relationship is very hard because we have to get
through the ego of what may or may not be happening.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, excellent, Thank you so much for that, Thank you
so much for that. So, Alex, would we like to
add on to that?

Speaker 6 (24:38):
I to add on to that.

Speaker 7 (24:42):
I know, right, question again though, and so I would
say that when it comes to love, love is a
double edged sworded like everything else. I'm a big fan
of the middle way, the kind of yin yang, the
understanding of life and dark and the fact that you
need both again kind of exists, right, and appreciating them.

(25:05):
And so love is one of those things that is
very helpful because it can hold you in dark times,
It can keep you, it can you know, give you strength,
It can give you power, It can it can save lives, right,
It can do a lot of different things. But some
of those things are harmful, and some of those things

(25:26):
that are you know, you love somebody so much that
you'll put them before yourself for your you will allow
them to control you or make you do things that
you maybe don't want to do and don't think they're
healthy for yourself or for your children or anyone else. Right,
And so I think it's important because when you talk

(25:47):
about codependency, we start getting into a lot of symptoms
around you know, usually past trauma of either abandonment or
some type of insecure attachment. And so what I find
in practice is that a lot of people don't realize
that they have symptoms that mimic certain diagnoses that I

(26:16):
don't want to get too deep into because I'm not
a big fan of diagnosing people as a practice, But
there are certain things that you should be aware of
in terms of dysfunctional attachments and like hostile relationships, and
occasionally we have to just be honest with ourselves. And
I think that's where our styles kind of switch, because
I get a little bit more in your face and

(26:37):
then doctor Will goes, let's love yourself, right, and so
what I tend to be a little bit more, Let's
be honest with ourselves.

Speaker 8 (26:46):
Right, there's a part of you that enjoys this.

Speaker 7 (26:48):
Dysfunction, and we have to find out what that's doing
for you, right, And like they also, how are you
continuing the cycle? Because from where I sit, even in
situations like in fidelity, which is often hard to get
to a patient with, but it's a process. But it's

(27:11):
an understanding that even if I cheated, that it doesn't.

Speaker 6 (27:17):
Excuse me from cheating. Let me be very clear. But
like Will said, there is a.

Speaker 7 (27:23):
Situation there where something else is going on, right, there's
something that is missing, and you have to be willing
to take accountability for that, right, for the conditions of
your relationship. That is a two person problem, and so
being willing to kind of look at yourself and say, Okay,
I realize that because my dad wasn't around, I tend

(27:46):
to give you twenty chances because I don't want to
be by myself and.

Speaker 6 (27:50):
I really enjoy that male love.

Speaker 7 (27:53):
I understand that I'm aggressive because I feel like you're
getting close to me and you're making me feel uncomf
and vulnerable and.

Speaker 6 (28:01):
Now I want to run.

Speaker 7 (28:04):
Sometimes you have to understand that if you are wrought
in chaos and your family of origin was always into
some goodness knows what, there's a point where you will
bring chaos into your space because you're not.

Speaker 8 (28:19):
Used to living without it, and so you.

Speaker 7 (28:22):
Will inadvertently and not that you're trying to do this,
but you will bring it to your space, to your relationships,
and so being able to kind of really be real
with ourselves and say, okay, where is my dysfunction? Because
when you look around and you have dysfunctional relationships and
with your siblings and with your parents, and with your

(28:43):
coworkers and with your friends and with the taxi driver,
at some point we have to look at ourselves and say, okay,
am I out.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Here is it me?

Speaker 6 (28:55):
Like if somebody do me to hug, Like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Right?

Speaker 7 (28:58):
Something's happening here and I need to be able to
acknowledge that, just as much as being able to make
people kind of aware of how to treat me, and
that's a whole different issue.

Speaker 6 (29:08):
You have to teach people how to treat.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yes, I love that, I love that, Thank you for that.
So let's go a little deeper. Let's go a little deeper, Alex.
The work that you do with couple's therapy has helped
so many people find themselves again while learning how to
love more consciously. So what makes emotional.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Froze? I liked that this question was going though.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
I know I was like, oh, getting getting it ripped up.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Right, But I also wanted to say, your diagnosis is
not the reason for love, of course, how to fix
love of doing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you got
to stop doing Oh I can like you those way
because of my diagnosis. No, no, that's not how it
works either, is not the reason you love this way?

Speaker 7 (30:01):
No, No, you're accountable for your own actions and whether
or not you choose to seek help. And that's understanding
that if my EHD makes me act a certain way.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
I'm still responsible for that.

Speaker 7 (30:12):
I'm also responsible for seeking help, for seeking treatment and
making that better for.

Speaker 6 (30:15):
Myself and my family.

Speaker 8 (30:17):
And if you decide to do that, that's on you.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah you know what, y'all.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I know that was so amazing. It was technically.

Speaker 7 (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, a little bit, we got you.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
I was like, whoa, this sounds pretty good here, all right.
So let's go to the next question. You know, please
help work with us right now. What should a partner
do in their significant other if they refuse us to
help or won't acknowledge their mental health structures? Mm?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Hm, you go first, allary the most.

Speaker 7 (31:03):
I will never tell anybody what to do, because that's
against what I mean. You know, I'm not the person
that has to lay my head down at night thinking
about it.

Speaker 8 (31:12):
But what I will say is that you have to
decide what you're willing to how.

Speaker 6 (31:17):
You want to live.

Speaker 8 (31:19):
And so there's a point where, you know, if you're willing.

Speaker 7 (31:22):
To accept the fact that this person's depression isabilitating them
and not allowing them to function, and you're willing to
make your life work around that and sacrifice yourself to
do all that, I won't stop you.

Speaker 6 (31:41):
I do think that there's something else out there.

Speaker 7 (31:43):
That would probably be better for you and better for them.
And I think sometimes we have to look at ourselves
and say how much am I holding on to this?

Speaker 6 (31:50):
Is it for me or is it for you? Right?

Speaker 7 (31:54):
And be honest with yourself about the answer to that question. Yeah,
you say, sometimes it's just not enough.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Right, you know, I want to say this too. This
kind of goes piggyback on what you said just a
few minutes ago, not too long ago, about even when
you a cheating in infidelity, you want to know where
that comes from. So even you holding on something like
this that even if the other person is not it
won't take accountability or even want to go find out

(32:22):
what's going on with them, but you want to stay
there and go through the process with them. So that's
like a more of a self for yourself that Okay,
was it that you need to do that you feel
like you need to stay into this and you know
kind of you know, jump off the bridge along with

(32:42):
that person. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (32:47):
I think that that's something that we see quite a
bit in terms of the ability to build the relationships.
When I'm thinking about relationships skills building and I do
a couple's therapy, try to make sure people understand that
your relationship is not my client. That's not how this works.
I am not trying to make you guys work. It

(33:10):
sounds awful, but I'm not that interested. What I am
trying to do is be able to give you guys
the skills so that if this doesn't work, you're able
to go on to the next relationship, learning the skills
that you need.

Speaker 8 (33:26):
To learn to be the partner that you want to be.

Speaker 7 (33:29):
And if that during that process of trying to become
that partner, you guys decide that you're willing to continue
to motivate, you're motivated to work or I mean, there's
quite a few things that I do to try to
see assess where that space is. But once we find
that out, I mean, you've got to be willing to
put the work in and understand that that's that's a

(33:51):
big it's.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Not it's not easy.

Speaker 7 (33:54):
Being in a relationship is hard every week when you're married, when.

Speaker 6 (33:59):
You're single, when you're dating.

Speaker 7 (34:01):
It's all difficult because you're navigating people. And so you
got to be willing to kind of put the work
in and understand that it's okayoff, like the payoff is great.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Wow, you know that. It's such an interesting intach. I
promise you because I was really really Yeah, So let
me ask you this, how can we reduce the shame
that's around therapy when it comes to people going in,
especially in communities of color.

Speaker 7 (34:30):
Yeah, that's a great question. Will you want to say
that first?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Of course? Not go ahead please, thanks a lot.

Speaker 7 (34:38):
No, I believe that that's actually a.

Speaker 6 (34:42):
Big passion of mine.

Speaker 7 (34:43):
I'm actually working on something to try to navigate that
space myself, which I won't.

Speaker 8 (34:47):
Get into but I know, right, But what I will
say is that.

Speaker 7 (34:54):
In our communities, we have to understand that this isn't
the same, is different. In case you haven't noticed, look around,
it's different. Right, And everyone lived through COVID. COVID impacted
the entire world. The level of anxiety that the average
person has is just higher. Yeah, the social anxiety is

(35:14):
extremely high, right, and so understanding how much that's impacting
our relationships, our ability to navigate spaces, we can't short
change that and think that we're going to just be
able to overcome in the ways that we have and
be honest with ourselves again about the fact that some
of the ways that we have overcome have been dysfunctional.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
Right.

Speaker 7 (35:36):
Yes, our parents have stayed together, Our grandparents stayed together,
but at what cost. They slept in separate bedrooms In
some cases, they which isn't a bad thing depending on
your relationship, let me be But they didn't show all affection.

Speaker 6 (35:51):
Which isn't a bad thing. But depending on your relationship style.

Speaker 7 (35:53):
But you never saw them in a happy space in
their relationship.

Speaker 6 (35:58):
Right, and so we just thought that that was dutiful.

Speaker 7 (36:02):
Right in twenty twenty five, people just want more. There
are our standards are higher, and I think we have
to understand how that has happened, especially for the black male.
Especially the exexpectations around masculinity for the black male over
time is something that's constantly in flux. And right now

(36:24):
we're trying to navigate the difference in trying to be
the more emotionally present guy. Yeah, and our population doesn't
really think the emotions are a good thing because our
grandfathers didn't talk that way and my dad didn't do that, right,

(36:45):
And so understanding though that that's the next step. Before that,
we were expected. We were just wanting them to be
present in the home. Right before that, because of various
social circumstances, we had a lot of parents one household parents, right,
and so you end up with males in jail and
everyone else trying to figure out how to make it work,

(37:07):
but the males. So we just wanted them to be there,
to be able to provide. That was the standard before that.
You go back another generation, you had a lot of
men who were rolling stones, as they say, right, and
who had different families in different places and other things. Right,
So it was more of just getting them to be
at the place of residence at twenty four to seven, right.

(37:30):
And so when you look at the evolution of how
our expectations of what our men, what we want our
men to do, we've been a little behind because we've
been wanting them just to like be in our house
and provide for us. And now our black men are
looking at themselves and saying, I do that, but I'm
going to go out and hang out my friends, or

(37:51):
I don't want to be emotionally available for you. And
that's the next step. And so it's a be a revolution,
but it is a little bit frustrating to kind of navigate.
And you know, I wouldn't say that black women are
much better off, just in the fact that we have
a little bit more of the emotional side and not
as much of the being able to be okay with

(38:13):
being a strong black woman, but understanding when occasionally it's
okay to kneel like and it not be a disrespectful space,
right it be I'm gonna let my husband have this
win today, I take it, but instead I'm gonna let

(38:34):
you have it because you need it. And that is
what it means to be a strong black woman who
supports a man who she wants to stand next to
her or stand in front of her, or whatever.

Speaker 6 (38:45):
The case may be. I prefer stand next to me.

Speaker 7 (38:48):
Everybody has their preference, right, But I think it's just
understanding that that that's so important.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, sorry there, but no, no, no, no, no, that's that's
that's us some good ship right there. Sorry, it was,
it was, And I see some comments coming in here
this too, all right, So let me ask you this,
and and of course anonymously, can you share a story
where therapy completely shifted direction of a relationship with one

(39:16):
of your clients? Just you know.

Speaker 8 (39:20):
Yes, I had a client and his pair.

Speaker 7 (39:29):
It's notable that they were in a similar work field.
What I will say is that they were struggling with
some history of a single domestic violent incident and trying
to move past that. And the female was not She

(39:51):
was very excited about therapy, very willing, and the.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
Male came off a little bit.

Speaker 8 (40:01):
High and mighty in his approach and really was kind
of challenging me to see how much I knew about
my craft, and so we danced a while.

Speaker 7 (40:13):
It was three months in before he finally we kind
of had a breakthrough and it kind of clicked for
him what I was asking him to do in terms
of shifting his focus and understanding and perspective of their relationship.

Speaker 8 (40:29):
Unfortunately, his wife was suffering from burnout and I had
encouraged her to go on a trip.

Speaker 7 (40:36):
After doing so, she told her friends about the incident that,
by the way, had happened three or four years prior,
and they hyped her up and came back and she
wanted to get a divorce, and so was it was

(41:00):
an interesting session because we were really excited to tell
her that we were about to start talking about them
sleeping back in the same bed, and then she was like,
actually I want a divorce, and so that was a
different day, right. I tried to work with them through
this the situation, but it became a parent that the

(41:22):
wife was on She's just in a full blown trauma
response constantly, and she's being fed by people around her,
and so she's not thinking rationally and just pulling the
plug on her family's whole life, and she was unreasonable
and angry and yelling at me in sessions, and so

(41:45):
it became a parent that I had to fire the clients,
which was interesting, I'm and I had to tell her
that she wasn't in a place for couples therapy, that
this isn't this isn't what you need, this.

Speaker 6 (41:54):
Isn't what you're interested in, and that's okay.

Speaker 7 (41:57):
You should get somebody to talk to, but it should
not be based on relationship because you.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
Have no interest in this, right.

Speaker 7 (42:04):
But the best part of this story is that I
continue to work with the mail because we had a
breakthrough and he wanted to continue. And so as they
went through the divorce, he continued to work, and he
continued to work.

Speaker 8 (42:17):
And he got to a space where he was ready.

Speaker 6 (42:22):
It's weird. He was about three or.

Speaker 7 (42:25):
Four months after she had left, and I told him, I,
you know, it was one of those I have nothing
else to teach you like you are now, SIMPI like
you made it right. And so I told him, I said,
your energy is great, you have the skills, You're ready
for a relationship, and something's going to happen soon because

(42:47):
your energy.

Speaker 6 (42:47):
Is saying it right.

Speaker 7 (42:50):
And then he contacted me about four months later to
tell me that he started dating someone and that they
met about a month after we had that kind ofnversation
and actually they're getting married this year.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (43:06):
Yeah, so you know, I think it's important. I think
that story is one of my favorite because it shows
what I was talking about earlier in terms of my
client is not the relationship. Yeah right, this wasn't meant
to be. This was done, but she didn't want the
skills and that's okay, But he did and he got them,

(43:27):
and now he's in a relationship that he's extremely happy
end and doing a lot better at co parenting with
his ex wife, even though she's a little bit difficult.
But they sent me a notification that they were getting married.

Speaker 6 (43:41):
So excitement exciting.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, that's yeah. That think. First of all, that's an
amazing story. Thank you for sharing that with us. You know,
as you were talking and you were saying, I was like, wow,
he was so apprehensive coming into that, the whole thing,
and she was just so gung ho. And my mind
is like, was she really coming in to for for

(44:05):
the help or was she coming in to prove herself
wrong of what happened? Does that make sense? You know?
So somebody validate her for what transpired in that one
incident that could have been a totally different accident or whatever.
But it's you know, kind of validate her for what
you know she was doing, because when I'm thinking is

(44:28):
I'm thinking of it personally more of a self love
you coming in and you're looking for something, of a
validation of something with that it could have been so
much deeper than that one incident for her with him,
it's like, I really don't need it. But then going forward,
this is why you do need it because of the
reaction that happened. You could have reacted a different way.

(44:52):
But then open to learn how I can communicate with
someone that is really willing to understand what I'm going
and who she probably talking to is who she been
talking to all alone that calls it in the first place.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's interesting to always keep in
perspective when we're talking to our friends, right talking to coworkers,
where they're coming from. I'm very honest in my sessions
about where I'm coming from the history that I have,
even with my own relationship, so that you understand where
my perspective is. Just that it's an option for you.

(45:30):
And if it's a perspective that you can get behind,
then great, right. But I won't pretend that everything's just
going to work out here, and I don't know that's
going to be.

Speaker 8 (45:42):
Rose colored glasses through this whole thing called therapy.

Speaker 7 (45:46):
It's just a little bit different than that. But it
can be so exciting when you're really open to the journey,
and it can be so helpful. He means it's a
different person in some ways, but really it's a person
that he wanted to be all along and that's what's
great about it.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, I love that. Again, thank you, Thank you for
sharing that. Do you have any that you want to share?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, just just briefly. Actually, I just want to acknowledge
the fact that Alex is such a great therapist because
she's okay with challenging. I'm okay with people not being
okay with her. This new generation of clients do not
like to be challenged. They don't like to be to

(46:28):
see themselves, and then they don't like to feel uncomfortable
with their clinician. I hear so many stories of all
I didn't like that my past therapist because they said
something that just really turned me off. I didn't like
the way it felt like, well, did you talk about
it with them and try to help them understand? Did
you go through that? So that means you didn't resolve anything,
you just avoided and you find a new therapist thinking

(46:51):
that now I'm going to enable that because I probably
might have agreed with them too. And so I'm seeing
in this new state of therapy that people are going
and seen as right and correct, and that is not
what I'm here to do, and that is not what
I'm here for. And I just appreciate this story because

(47:11):
it's not the Disney fairy tale story of a they
weren't going to make it, but now they're together in
the happiest raptor. No, they found each other and they
found out what makes it for them, and they make
it functional for themselves and they're able to see themselves.
That is what healthiness is. Yeah, So I just didn't
acknowledge that. And I think a lot there today don't
get that that that that type of scenery.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
I think it's I think it's I think I'm away
a little bit direct in some of the ways that
I say things with patients, but I work hard to
make sure that they understand that it's coming from.

Speaker 6 (47:44):
A good place.

Speaker 7 (47:45):
Like I'm very open about cheering for you. I'm very
open about, you know, wanting you to be better, but
I will also go for the ride a little bit.
I had a patient that I had to give a
diagnosis too. That was pretty decent diagnosis support online personality disorder, right,
and for a black woman.

Speaker 6 (48:06):
That's.

Speaker 7 (48:08):
That's real though, And so I had to really I
wanted to just wait until I could give the evidence, right, like,
I've seen you in a couple of different situations, manage
these situations, and here's what I see, right. But I
had that was probably about seven months in because I

(48:31):
wanted to make sure that she was ready to hear it,
because she was not in a space, but she was
ready to hear it. She was coming here to be
told these people around me are terrible, and everyone around
me is terrible, and all these people and this and that,
and I talked to them and I just lost this
guy and this friend and this. I'm like, what right,

(48:56):
everyone keeps xing off your board here. So once we
got enough of those opportunities, I was able to tell
her like this a pattern that extends with friendships with
family with this and then you're like, oh, I see
it right, And so that's how I'm able to get it.
But I present that very early in therapy. I'm a
person who is not an expert on you. That's unrealistic.

Speaker 6 (49:19):
You live your life, you know, you bet.

Speaker 7 (49:23):
My job is to be the expert in the subject matter,
which is understanding habits and patterns and understanding people and
having this wealth of knowledge from both you know, articles
and experiences like today's podcast or in everything else, right,
and so that's what I bring, right, and so together though,

(49:47):
we have to figure this out. And so for me,
it's very important that my patients are active in this role,
especially if we're talking about diagnosing something like that.

Speaker 6 (49:57):
Or I want I want you to be on board.

Speaker 7 (49:59):
I had to do it with a teenage recently as well,
same diagnosis, and I had to wait until she was
in a space where she was ready to hear it,
and he talked about it and then she cried about it,
and she's felt good that there was a name like
there's at least somebody else out there who feels.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
This, which I had that I'm sorry I was, but
I'm I'm I did the first month I did the
first that day, I met somebody and I was like,
I listened to their whole entire story. I listened to everything,
and I was like, I want to explain this as
a as a house fire, the smoke is, the smoke
is anxiety, the fire is a personalized or your VPD,
and the thing that the house was burning is CPTSD.

(50:38):
And then literally next week they came in and they
were like they went in on me. They were like,
you're wrong, You're a sexist. You don't know. You've only
met me for fifty five minutes. You don't think. And
then like like I talked to all my other friends
that are therapist and they said that you're a quack,
you know, And I'm just saying, you're, like I specialized

(50:59):
in personally by the way, mind you so like so
so I'm sitting here and I'm like, I said it
too soon, but I don't miss m H and let
me tell you why. And then and then I said,
but remember I'm here to treat the symptoms, not the diagnosis.
I could I could have gave you zebra zebra nosis,

(51:21):
whatever it is. I can make up a diagnosis. You're
still you so do you want to help with with
you want to help yourself or do you want to
help the diagnosis? Because if you want to have the diagnosis,
then I know a great therapist for that. But I'm
trying to help you. Let me know what you want
to do.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
M hmm.

Speaker 7 (51:40):
I think that that is. That's great.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I'll be that next time though.

Speaker 7 (51:43):
Yeah, I think, I think. I mean, don't wait. I
didn't want to wait that long. But every time I
was going to do it, it was a crash out session.

Speaker 6 (51:50):
So you gotta roll with.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
A person where where I have the power still and
then I can Yeah.

Speaker 7 (51:56):
See, that's also the thing that I'm not going to
do this fight over the power. But but I think
the one thing that's real interesting that you said that
I wanted to piggyback off of a little bit was
about this idea, Oh goodness, don't lose it. It was an
idea that you had about.

Speaker 8 (52:18):
My goodness. Maybe I did lose it. I apologize.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Was it the house thing?

Speaker 6 (52:24):
Oh about TP? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (52:26):
About trauma? Right, And I think that it's so interesting
because we're so ashamed about our traumas. We're all so ashamed,
and I think it's so important to understand that it's
just another bag, Like it's okay, it's okay. We all
have a bag. We have a bag that we carry

(52:47):
with all of our junk in it. When we go
to our relationships, when we meet our friends, we have
all of our crap, the friend that hurt your feelings
in kindergarten, the girl who embarrassed you on the bus, like,
it's all there, right, But we learn how to carry it,
and we learn how to protect ourselves and be better.
And that's where a lot of this is going. And

(53:08):
I think when I talk about diagnosing people, I really
talk about the fact that you can have traits of
things and not to be clinically significant. And so when
I start talking about symptoms and people get really irritated
about diagnosing, and what I say to them is, here's

(53:29):
the deal. Not every cough is a cold, right, So
just because your cough doesn't mean you have a cold.
You could also have a sneeze does not mean that
you have a cold, right, And so it's important that
you know. We do that a lot with like what narcissism, Right,
everybody's a narcissism, Yeah, every money because.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
It is it's a hot word.

Speaker 8 (53:52):
Right, And so you could have narcissistic tendencies.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
That's fair.

Speaker 6 (53:57):
I know a lot of people who do.

Speaker 7 (53:59):
But that doesn't mean that it's clinically significant. And if
it is clinically significant, that's no different than having diabetes
and need a insulin. It's not the end of the world, right,
It is okay. Sometimes you need a little bit of
extra support and that insulin may be a pill, or

(54:20):
it may be a therapist, or it may be a
community center, or it may be a good group of friends. Right,
But understanding that it's okay to.

Speaker 6 (54:35):
Be not okay.

Speaker 7 (54:36):
And technically, in terms of a diagnosis, a diagnosis doesn't
mean anything. Do you really care if you have a
cold or you have the flu or you have pneumonia
when you go to the hospital, No, just treat it.
I just want I just want to be okay. And
so what we call it is what we call it,
and we call it that for insurance purposes only because

(54:57):
insurance has to call it something, right, and that's why
it's there.

Speaker 8 (55:02):
That's it, right, And so do not allow insurance companies
to dictate.

Speaker 6 (55:07):
How you feel about yourself.

Speaker 7 (55:09):
Wow, right, because they have these characteristics that they want
to do in order for us to build your insurance.
This is all capital, right, so let's just keep in
mind what that does, and.

Speaker 8 (55:18):
Let's keep that separate from what's going on here, right.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Thank you so much for sharing. I don't mean to
cut you out, but thank you for sharing that with us, Alex, because,
as I mentioned before early on, this is one of
the reasons why I created this whole series anyway, because
of a listener who had wrote in that had been
diagnosed with PTSD and when he was sharing it with
other people on his diagnosis, is that they were treating

(55:44):
him on the diagnosis, whether of him as the person.
So were you saying that and saying that, you know,
don't look and hold on to that. What I'm hearing is,
don't hold on to that like it's gold, Like that
is who you are, and that's the description you because
we just got to put a name with it for
insurance purposes. This is don't define who you are. So

(56:07):
you just seeing it right now that just like, thank
you you.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
Girl, exactly. I think it's so good. I've talked to
so many people.

Speaker 7 (56:15):
Who are scared, especially when it because of another capacity
in which I dabble. I see a lot of psychologists
and things in a clinical space, and so we work
closely and sometimes I see people who need that kind
of support and so trying to help people, especially black
and brown people with medication thoughts, it's it's tough, and

(56:35):
so I have to have that conversation. Like you you
will be the first person to run to the cabinet.
If you got cramps, right, you'll go take a multra
And if you got a headache, you gotta you'll grab
a tilemar et cetera. Your joints her you run into
that aproxys and right right, trying to get that anti inflammatory.
So why if you are depressed, you not willing to

(57:02):
try something that could be helpful.

Speaker 9 (57:04):
Yeah, yeah, heavy with symptoms or tide effects because I mean,
turn on us the Balta commercial, like what you know
what I mean, Like the symptoms, side effects are gonna
be what they're gonna be.

Speaker 7 (57:17):
But like let's let's keep an open in mind, right,
because you will not withhold the time law, So like
let's just think about this right, right. And so that's
something that I really try to preach, and especially alongside
the idea of therapy period right, just understanding that it's Okay,

(57:38):
it's okay to talk to somebody if you might know
just a little bit more about it than you. Yeah,
but it's also okay to not like your therapist. Okay,
Like I know so many people who have one bad experience,
but the therapist never want to go back. And I
apologize for that jumping on this little thing, but that.

Speaker 6 (57:55):
Is therapists are like shoes.

Speaker 7 (57:57):
Try on a couple of pairs before you decided to
go barefoot for the rest of your life.

Speaker 6 (58:02):
Because Rock beautifully.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Said, thank you so much, a look, I gotta I
got a question for our listeners. Have you ever felt
stuck in love? Not because you didn't care, but because
the mental weight was too heavy? So I wanted to
drop in the chats or even we're gonna open up
the lines. I know we went. We gonna open up
the line, or you can give us a call at
seven six five two seven five one five two seven

(58:28):
that seven six five two seven one five to seven.
And I just saw we just had a nice little
super chat over here. So I want to shout out Tampa, Hey, hey, Tampa,
I see you all, and I thank you so much
for giving us that little you know, that little tip
tip tip right there, and that would definitely go to
the Mental Awareness America. We got some little friends over here,

(58:54):
all right, doctor will So I'm gonna bring you into
this conversation real fast.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
You ready for this, Let's do it all right?

Speaker 3 (59:02):
All right? So my question is for you is, as
someone who lives in a world of emotional healing every day,
what are some of the key signs that relationships is
being affected by untreated mental health struggles?

Speaker 2 (59:18):
M That's such a hard question because there are so
many things I could say. I'll say it like this,
three layers to this. The first layer is there's a
pattern that no one's talking about. Right, So two people

(59:41):
are coming in with a pattern that no one's talking about,
and so these patterns just keep happening and no one's
saying what the actual issue is. The second one is
how good are you in conflict? You have to be
good in conflict, and some people are really good at
being bad in conflict. So my thing is is who's

(01:00:05):
who's putting out the fire? Who's putting out the fire
and why is it them? And then third, what's the
representation versus the authenticity? So a lot of times I'll
see couples that I know are having problems at parties,
I'll see how they interact with other people in public spaces.

(01:00:27):
So I'll know this, well, how close are they together,
I'll look at you know, how far are they separated?
How are they interacting when you know one group's on
this side, the other groups on this side. I'll look
at the dynamic of how they represent each other in public.
So for me, it's really about the pattern how you

(01:00:47):
deal in conflict, and then also what's the dynamic when
they're in public? Right? How do they see each other
in public? And that's and that's always interesting to see
the language and how the language changes on other people.
Right now that I'm now that I'm studying people in parties,
I'm just I'm just watching.

Speaker 7 (01:01:05):
You're definitely studying parties.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
Definitely a case study of parties.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Did you want to add on to that, Alex, I.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
Would say that.

Speaker 8 (01:01:20):
I don't want to go ahead, girl, I would say that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:26):
The patterns, I think it's important chechnology, the conflict is
going to be there, right, like the conflict is necessary,
it has to happen. If one of my biggest red
flags and people say this to me all the time, and.

Speaker 6 (01:01:37):
I kind of chuck over myself or sometimes not to myself.

Speaker 7 (01:01:42):
And they say, you know, oh, we never argue or
we I'm like, somebody's lying, Like you may not be arguing,
but somebody's miserable. Somebody's giving and giving and giving and
caving or allowing you just to have way every time.
And it doesn't mean that they're going to make that loud,

(01:02:04):
but it may happen, right, And so understanding that that
conflict has to happen, I would say when it comes
to deciphering the existence of a personality disorder or a
mental health concern, it depends on what it looks like.
But one thing that I will say is it's usually

(01:02:26):
very rigid. And so what you will notice is the
unwillingness to compromise or be flexible in certain aspects of
your relationship dynamic. That is one commonality that I see
across the board. And so whether it is depression or

(01:02:46):
extreme anxiety or extreme whatever, right, it's usually rigid. It's
not flexible. It won't allow you to be compromising, for
you know, you get too worked up to be that
kind of forgiving or you get to write like it's
it's the rigidness of my behaviors, or you can even

(01:03:09):
know that I may act irrationally, but I can help it.
The unwillingness to also look inward and reflect that ones
can sometimes be an indicator. But that rigidity is something
that I find quite often, I would say, And yeah,

(01:03:34):
I would say at least eighty percent of the situation.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I agree. And then you look at the kids too, though,
But then you look at the kids, you see how
the kids act. You can tell immediately what's really going
on when you look at the kids.

Speaker 6 (01:03:46):
Ye, that's rue or vice versa.

Speaker 7 (01:03:49):
You see the parents and you're like, oh, wow, so
but I think that that's that's important to recognize. You
know that that second level of like parent of origin, right,
how much of this is is family of origin?

Speaker 8 (01:04:04):
And how much of this is like learned behavior or caught.

Speaker 7 (01:04:07):
Along the way, And that sometimes will help you to
if you're they act like somebody in their family, and
how disruptive is that? I also like what doctor will
mentioned about how they treat each other in public. That
always tells you kind of where the relationship status is at, right,
because that will tell the tale and the subtleties, right,
Like just in a simple I mean, how many times

(01:04:28):
have you seen like Unca Trump didn't want to hold
his hand, right?

Speaker 6 (01:04:34):
He all saw it, they said it happened, she smacked
his hand away, right, Like.

Speaker 8 (01:04:40):
It's those moments.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
But those are telling moments, right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:43):
I mean that's a little bit doing the most, but
those are the telling moments. The way that you talk
about your significant other when they're not around, yeah, right,
it speaks to how much you really respect them and
how much you really value them, right, And so I
think understanding the difference there is very difficult. It really is,
like doctor Will said, But that rigidity I think will

(01:05:05):
usually be there and it will definitely show up in conflict.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
Beautiful, Thank you both for that. So we actually got
a caller on right now how to bring them up?
All right, Hey, Rock, are you peace?

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
What's had now? How y'all doing good?

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
What's going on? Love conversations that you happening?

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yes? Yes, you got a question.

Speaker 10 (01:05:35):
Not necessarily question, Yeah, I can say it's a question
I kind of need your advice on like kind of
a situation that I'm going through. It y'all had like
so many like things that I'm going through right now.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
It's not even funny, like I love.

Speaker 10 (01:05:46):
Conversation right now, and like right now, like I'm kind
of dealing with a breakup, and I'm like in a
situation where I'm noticing a lot of patterns in my relationships.
And I guess my question would be, what's the definition
of throwing something in somebody's face, like throwing something in

(01:06:09):
your spouses or your girlfriend boyfriend face.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
What would you say The definition is that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Mm hm, you want to go first out.

Speaker 7 (01:06:20):
Sure, I would say, I mean basic would be you know,
you continuing to bring it up after it seemingly squashed,
or bringing it up in situations in which you know
it's beneficial to you and maybe the meaning to me.
But also I would say that when that's that type
of situation is occurring, it's important to decipher the difference,

(01:06:47):
right between something being thrown in your face or an
unresolved issue. M and so occasionally I noticed that people
argue in circles a lot, right, You'll have different argus
If you talk about your X person, I'm sure you'll
say that we have arguments about the same things over
and over and they never get resolved.

Speaker 8 (01:07:08):
And that happens a lot because of that feeling that
excuse me a feeling that they are not getting validated.
And if you're not with this person, I'm sure you've
had a moment where you've not felt validated and you've
been upset or something about something and they said that

(01:07:29):
your anger wasn't valid But you can't be an upset, right,
or you shouldn't be upset, And so those moments, you know,
it's important to understand that I might be bringing something
up that feels like I'm throwing it in your face,
But am I throwing it in your face? Like for
me throwing it in your face, is that I'm making
a display? Right if I'm just bringing it back up.

Speaker 7 (01:07:47):
To you, And maybe because it's unresolved to me and
I still am not feeling validated.

Speaker 6 (01:07:52):
About what we talked about or understood.

Speaker 7 (01:07:55):
There is a difference between validating somebody's experience and agreeing
they're not the same, and we often misconstrue the too.

Speaker 6 (01:08:07):
Right, So I don't have to agree with.

Speaker 7 (01:08:11):
I don't know. A woman finds her husband cheating, she
walks up to him and slaps him. Okay, can we
understand why that happened? Can we can we relate to
the emotional situation, feelings that this person was likely feeling
that moment that allowed them to walk up and smack
that person. Yes, we can all understand how that probably felt.

Speaker 6 (01:08:32):
Do we agree that that was the best way to
go about it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Maybe not?

Speaker 8 (01:08:37):
Maybe not right, And so that's the difference.

Speaker 7 (01:08:40):
I can validate that man, that that's ucked, and I
can totally understand where you're coming from, and also still
hold true to the fact that I don't know that
that was a good idea.

Speaker 6 (01:08:51):
I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't done it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
H right, doctor will For.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Me, it's a matter of they're saying that because they
need some type of security or reassurance from you. And
I also want to acknowledge the fact that you acknowledging
that it's you're breaking up or it is a breakup. Right,
There's there's a difference being broken up and in the
process of a breakup. So I'm curious which one is

(01:09:19):
it because my language is going to change based upon that.

Speaker 10 (01:09:22):
It's really complicated, like because I know I'm not unlimited time,
and it's just to kind of go in detail what
I'm going through, which kind of tell some good news.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
I'm about to have my first child.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
Relations rock.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:09:40):
Second part it is like during the pregnancy, it's like
a real space. Like she pretty much says it like
we're broke. It's like I'm broken up, so I could
do whatever I want. It's like I could basically hang
out whatever whoever, like these toxic people, like people from
the past.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
I could do whatever. And it's like kind of going
to detail what I was trying to ask. I go through.
It's like.

Speaker 10 (01:10:03):
Lady, they'll they'll seem like unappreciative, like example, like they'll
say like nobody never do anything from me.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
I ain't by myself. I'm on my own. And there's
times where I feel unappreciated.

Speaker 10 (01:10:14):
It's like hold on like I did and I did
that because I love you, like you're not by yourself.
And it's like you're throwing that in my face. Why
are you throwing it in my face? If you did it,
I kind of say your heart, you would never say nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I know this. This is actually a pattern with me
to the point where I sit and.

Speaker 10 (01:10:30):
Wonder, like do I like throw stuff in people's face
or cause in my head, I think I'm doing it
just to show you, like this is the love I
have for you like, these are examples.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
It's like you're not by yourself. I did this.

Speaker 10 (01:10:42):
I love I'm doing this because I'm trying to support,
but it backfires.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
Ass I'm throwing it in a person's face. Yeah, and
that's where I get it insecurity, it's like is it me?

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Am I check exactly? That's why I had to ask
you which one is it? Because that's what it sounded like.
You were in conflict of position. So, first principle, the
action is never the reason, right. So I see that
you're trying to place yourself in a place of I'm
not saying this because I'm trying to stay my place.

(01:11:14):
I'm trying to let you the value that my place
with you is genuine. I'm genuine. And their irrational behavior
of well you can go on, go do your own thing,
go do your own thing, you know, that's une that need.
So there's something that they need. Possibly it's something that
they need from you to feel seen, and they did

(01:11:34):
not possibly open up about what it is because they're
afraid that something might them, they might be expected of
them once they get too vulnerable. And so you know,
my my best recommendation for that is really to understand,
you know I would. I would change the language and
say I want to be the best dad possible, and

(01:11:56):
I can't do that without making sure the mom feels loved.
What do you need to feel loved right now? What
does that look like? Feel loved right now? You're good?
The biggest thing is changing your language to saying I
want to be the best dad, and to do that,
I know I have to take care of you first.

(01:12:16):
So I'm wondering what is that you need to feel
loved by me? Because because what I'm doing is not
what you need, so I want to make sure I'm
doing it accurately. Putting yourself in that position of I'm
willing to be what you need rather than I'm trying
to prove myself, because once again, a man that tries
to prove himself has already lost. So put yourself in

(01:12:37):
the position of I am here, but I know that
I need to be here for you. What does that
look like? And see you can actually align with that
because she might be asked for something that's not even realistic,
and then that's going to let you know a whole
other world. But I think it goes to your philosophy
to alex I was gonna say.

Speaker 7 (01:12:55):
What she is asking for is validation. So she's upset.
So if you said, man, I work hard every day
I go to work, I come home and I feel like, oh,

(01:13:16):
his house is sometimes just dirty. Right, in those situations,
what you're trying to say is we should clean the hops.
What you're asking for, that's kind of that unmet need
on the surface that doctor Will was talking about unmet need,
But the way that you're going about it is kind

(01:13:36):
of in a space that's placing blame and pulling defenses
out of your partner. In this situation that you just describe,
you are the person who is being a little bit defensive. Now,
let me be very clear, defensive not a bad thing,
because usually when you get defensive, it is because you're
used to a person who can be a little bit.

Speaker 6 (01:14:00):
Rough than the startup.

Speaker 7 (01:14:01):
Right, So when they likely bring something to you, it's
probably pretty amped.

Speaker 6 (01:14:06):
Probably it could be that.

Speaker 7 (01:14:08):
Your your family was that way and your your past, right,
but likely people have gotten a little bit amped, and
so you're used to kind of having to defend yourself. Okay,
no shame in that what she is looking for from
you is exactly what doctor Will was talking about that
next layer of being able to decipher this relationship ease

(01:14:31):
of that underlying need. Right, So what she's saying is
I need help. I need help, and I'm not good
at asking for it. If we talk about this female,
I would I would bet that she's not the person
who asks for help very much.

Speaker 6 (01:14:47):
And so what she's.

Speaker 7 (01:14:48):
Saying to you is that I need help, but I'm
not able to communicate effectively enough to just.

Speaker 6 (01:14:55):
Ask you to help me with the dishes, or can.

Speaker 7 (01:14:59):
You come pick up the kids or take them or whatever? Right,
And that's where what doctor Will is talking about is
you're trying to ask her what is it that you're needing?
And so my way of saying that is what are
you asking me to do?

Speaker 6 (01:15:13):
Differently?

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Oh that's a good one.

Speaker 7 (01:15:16):
Right, because what a lot of times, and we're all
guilty of this. We will spend so much trying trying
to healthy person understand how upset we are, Right, I
was this happened then and I was so upset and
then this happened, and oh man, I was really right,
Like we kind of build into that.

Speaker 6 (01:15:38):
But the point I mean is I.

Speaker 7 (01:15:42):
Want you to understand what I want you to do
differently though, because I don't want to encounter this again,
Like I'm tired of you telling me like that you
don't get no help, right, I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:15:52):
Tired of that.

Speaker 7 (01:15:54):
So what is it that you're asking me to do differently?

Speaker 6 (01:15:58):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:15:59):
And so that yes, and that is and and be
prepared for I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Yeah, that was gonna be my mind. So I want
to come in on top of all of this because
I want to First of all, I want to repeat
what I heard you say, Rock, that there is a
throwing of things in people faces. That was one thing
that you said. When I heard that. When I heard

(01:16:28):
you say that, the first thing that came to mind
for me is that just a part of the validation
that doctor Will said and that Alex said as well.
But also is that there is something that has not
been communicated to that person that they need to hear
from you, from you or whoever that person is is

(01:16:48):
being thrown in the face. But also that other person
has to take accountability if you're still doing things to
trigger that same thing. You understand what I'm saying. So
when we talk about throwing things in people's face, we
have to step back and say, well, what am I
doing that's continue to trigger this? Have I whatever choice
and decision that we made a reading on our relationship,

(01:17:11):
are we still am I still doing that actively? That's
one Two. Let's talk about her being pregnant. Let's be real.
They go through emotional things all the different times in
every aspect of so honestly, you don't know where that
person is mentally, emotionally, physically in that state of mind.

(01:17:35):
And then let's go to what I always talk about
is healing self love. You know, coming into a relationship,
she could already came in with baggage of toxicity. You
have your toxicity as well, and you're trying to create
something that's so amazing and beautiful when you individually haven't
even tapped in on healing of yourself. So now you're

(01:17:57):
in there trying to build something in a whole, and like, Okay,
that's what we're gonna do. I also heard you say, well,
she good with me being around talk to people, she's
good with me doing this she's doing. No, she's not good. No, No,
she's not good at all. That's that's a that's a
complete not lie. I like what doctor Will was like,

(01:18:19):
ask her, what how how do you want me to
be or something like that you said.

Speaker 10 (01:18:26):
I remember that you said like instead of asked like,
how could I do it differently?

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
Yes, that I heard that one.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Yes, I'm gonna say this. She don't know, she do
not know, She don't know, she don't know. So it's like,
how what would that communication be? Now? How would that
communication be me knowing that she she she don't know,
and being a woman especially I don't even know what

(01:18:55):
the ethnicity she is, but just being a strong woman.
Just even what she was saying with you is that
you're throwing it in my face that you're trying to
do things for me. She seems to be like a
strong woman and she feel in the most vulnerable moment
right now, not giving an excuse.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
This is just a fact, yes, the fact.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Of what it is. And so now you need to
look that. Okay, Now what can I do? Because I
can't control her emotions? But how can I control me
in the way that I react and the way that
I wouldn't out? And what do I do?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Yeah? Because that because that because that that whole that
whole moment of oh you can go date anybody else,
you can go anybody else. The action is never the reason.
It's not for you to find other people. It's to
see if you're gonna stay. Yes, are you're gonna choose me?
I want to feel chosen. I want to know you're
gonna devote yourself to me. I know. I want to
know you're serious about this family that we're about to create.

(01:19:50):
How creating life? Are you creating the family? That's what
you step into that?

Speaker 6 (01:19:56):
Yeah, I would agree. How far long is you?

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
Yeah, he's doing September?

Speaker 7 (01:20:02):
Okay, yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
This is my first one.

Speaker 6 (01:20:08):
Yes, is hers first one too?

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
No, this is her second, this is my first, gotcha?

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:20:13):
So yeah, So then.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Wants a corrective experience. Usually when women are having a
second child, they want it's a corrective experience. First time
I was like I had to go through this and learn.
The second one is like, Okay, I want to fix things.
I want to do this better. I want to have
So I'm wondering, like that'd be a great exercise on
date night, you know, if a movie night had just
kind of have the morement where you're like, well, how
from the first one to this one, what would you
have done differently? What would you have done better? Well,

(01:20:38):
how do you want this process to be?

Speaker 6 (01:20:40):
Yeah, that's amazing, right, sorry, doctor Will.

Speaker 7 (01:20:45):
I think it's important also to understand, like what let
me said around being pregnant, right, like sometimes you're just
not being rational, like I'm just gonna through it out there.
Sometimes it's not happen, and sometimes I just don't like
you because I here doing this, and also I love

(01:21:09):
you though, don't want you to leave, but like I
feel disgusting. Yeah, so that's also part of it. It's
like go because I look like this, right, And so
like doctor Will was saying, it's a search for reassurance too, right.
She needs to still be told that she's pretty. She
needs to still be told that she's valued and that

(01:21:30):
you're willing to help, and you know it can be
frustrating you have to be that and scary right for you,
But also understand like this isn't likely something that has
just come out of nowhere like this is you know,
this is people get a little bit more extreme when
they're pregnant, but not far right, and so it's not

(01:21:53):
uncommon that she's a probably fiery type of person. And
there's a part of you that is realistic attracted to
that and that's a double edge, and so sometimes you
have to deal with the other edge too, right, And
so I think, but if you go into that space
trying to be more validating, I'm like, okay, like I

(01:22:13):
understand that you're pregnant.

Speaker 6 (01:22:15):
And this kind of sucks. I mean, it's the best
thing in the world. But also the process is it is.

Speaker 7 (01:22:21):
Tough on the body, right, and so, and if she
has the history, depending on how her relationship went with
the previous baby daddy, because if he's a piece of crap,
which I don't know, then she is probably extremely anxious
about the fact that you will leave because he did

(01:22:42):
m and I don't want did he leave He left
me with a you know, a money pit. I mean,
children are beautiful. I love my son to death, but
they're expensive, expensive. Okay, So it's hard, right, And so
the thought of being a single mom of two, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:23:01):
It's a little anxiety provoking for anyone.

Speaker 7 (01:23:04):
And so I think just kind of trying to give
a little bit of the benefit of doubt. Sometimes we
need to be able to give each other grace and
not jump for all of the the pump fakes, as
I like to say, And the relationship you have those
moments right where somebody says something out of pocket, you'll
never be a great dad or something.

Speaker 6 (01:23:24):
You're like, where did that come from? Who says that?

Speaker 7 (01:23:28):
But I think it's important to understand, like if it's
something that's hurtful, you can bring it up later, you
can talk about it later. In that moment you need
to address, like what's going on inside of you right now?

Speaker 6 (01:23:38):
That is the space where we're at like that.

Speaker 7 (01:23:41):
You're like, what's happening right Something's going on in you
that you might need my support And I don't think
I'm showing up for you in the right way right
help me, help you, help me, help you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Yeah, you know, thank you for that. Alex Rock, first
of all, thank you for coming in and just do
you have any last words right right fast before because we.

Speaker 10 (01:24:01):
Got somebody else coming in waiting, literally like think all
of you like part of me, like trying to build
myself and work. And y'all also gave me enough with
jewel that I really been working or even my cousin
taught me, which is delivery, Like I've been trying to
work on my delivery when it comes to speaking.

Speaker 4 (01:24:17):
So y'all here too. I appreciate you, gradations.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
Congratulations again.

Speaker 6 (01:24:27):
Yeah, got all.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
Right, baby, all right, my beautiful people. All right. So
while we why we got this pause right now, I
just want to remind you all that what we're talking
about right now is just not a conversation that we have.
But we gotta take this conversation and make action of it.
You know, as I said before, we are very proud

(01:24:49):
to be raising funds for the Mental Health America this month.
And every donation, I mean every donation, every teed that
you purchased of my Mind and Heart collection, share the hoodie,
the cups, everything, you can go to ax Naomi dot
com as well as all Naomi creatorspring dot com. And

(01:25:10):
also you can go to donate at give classy dot
org Love and Mental Health, but you can also go
to ax Naomi dot com and again, one hundred percent
of all proceeds go to that. If you was tuned
in from the beginning of I read a story about
this family that the wife was actually trying to raise

(01:25:32):
money for a treatment. So these funds will go to
something like that. You understand what I'm saying. It's like,
we can't just be talking about it. We gotta really
do action and do something about it. This is the
start of something, but we really got to push forward.
So I'm asking you, my listeners right here, whether it's
two dollars, five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars, thirty dollars,

(01:25:53):
whatever that you have in your pocket right now, go
over to ax Naomi dot com. Hit that Nate button
on this big old green hit it right there. It's
gonna be a couple of signs boom boom, boom, boom boom.
I think it's say twenty five, and then it's say special.
If you ain't got twenty five, hit the special, give
us five, give us ten, give us whatever that you have,

(01:26:15):
because it is definitely going through a good cause. And
when we talk about mental health, I want to make
sure that people we're just talking about PDSD or we're
not talking about bipolar, or we're not talking about this.
We're talking about things like depression. We're talking about things
like anxiety, even, can I be honest, We even talking
about pregnancy brain Can we be honest? Yes, know what

(01:26:40):
I'm saying. And so with all of those things, we're
talking about a whole conglamorate of things in this world
and when I say this and people be looking at me. Really, now,
how we're gonna say this, Probably ninety a half percent
of us is going through something mental, really really, But
the biggest thing is being aware, being aware of who

(01:27:03):
you are and wanting to get the treatment, wanting to
find the tools, wanting to get the help, not only
for yourself and learn that, but so you can be
a ripple effect to others. Just like Rock to share
the story about him and his girlfriend. That's a ripple
effects of some toxic stuff. Not talking about anybody, but
that's that's what it is. And I think we've all

(01:27:25):
been through that. But this is why platforms like this,
This is why platforms like the Season and stuff on.
This is like platforms like with doctor Will and Alex
have you know, where we are bringing is forward to like, Okay,
this is what we've learn, this is what we've been through,
and this is what we want to share with you are.
But it's up to you to implement it, to take
it and use it in your and put it into

(01:27:46):
your toolbox. Put it into your toolbox. Yeah, yeah, you
got any words to doctor Mike. Mike, I'm just listening
to that. I'm just listen. Good information today. Okay, all right,
well we gotta wrap up the show. That's been amazing.
It's been so amazing. First of all, I want to

(01:28:08):
thank you Alex for coming in swinging the last minute.

Speaker 7 (01:28:11):
You know what I'm saying you, Ali, You'll be right
on the worst when it comes.

Speaker 3 (01:28:17):
And you did the thing. So if you can tell
my listeners where can where can they find you?

Speaker 6 (01:28:23):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:28:25):
Plug No, So I actually am partnering with doctor Will
at the Washington Wellness Institute.

Speaker 6 (01:28:31):
So I am there.

Speaker 7 (01:28:34):
I will be taking new patients probably in June, probably yep.
And so right now I'm pretty much working on solely
relational work for the moment, but I will have some
other things down the pipeline and I'll be sure to
come back.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
And let you know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:53):
All right, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
Also, also, also Alex is also over not just in Ohio,
also in Cali, working in both spaces, so so you
the world. Yeah, so so if you're and Cali as well,
or in the West Coast, he's also over there too, yes, right.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
Beautiful and beautiful beautiful, And doctor willis always thank you
for being you know, a part of our little co
pilot over here.

Speaker 6 (01:29:19):
You know, all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
Thank you, yes, yes, yes, you got any last words?

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Be kind to yourself and He'll always.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
I that's right, I know that's right again, my beautiful people,
BETG crew, I thank you all so much to just
showing up. But let's not just show up in this
aspect as viewers. But go over there to the website
as Naomi dot com and I'm a spell it for you.
They that's a s k n y Omi dot com.
Hit that donate button, whatever that you have, dough nate,

(01:29:54):
donate and chaotic theory. Tell your your fans to go
on over there and donate, Baby Tann to go over
there and donate to and as always family doct my Mike,
thank you baby for always just being here right here
with this. But next week we have another amazing guest
coming on. Doctor Bisbee is coming on for our last month.

(01:30:15):
This has been a great series. It's been a great series,
it really has. And we'll be closing it out on
a very bold topic mental health, intimacy and vulnerability. We're
gonna go deep.

Speaker 6 (01:30:30):
That sounds like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
I'm gonna ask you some questions before next week.

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
All right, people, until then, keep loving yourself, keep healing,
and take care of your mind and heart, have an
amazing and amazing weekend. Have a door all right, be beautiful.
People want thank you for being a part of another
amazing life episode on AKS Naomi. Here on Naomi's for All.
So if you enjoy today's show, I want you to
gets that life buddy well sheare with someone who needs

(01:31:01):
this message, and don't forget to subscribe and bring that
notification bell so you will never miss our Thursday life stream.
You want to rest the mercher, but check out our
Mind and Heart collection and more exclusive merch. The link
is in the description below. But I want you to
remember is that when you level up your mindset, you

(01:31:23):
level up

Speaker 8 (01:31:23):
Floy Us always keeping its

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Fudd Around And Find Out

Crime Junkie

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}“The Intersection of Mental Health and Relationships” with guest Alex Olosunde

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Fudd Around And Find Out

Crime Junkie

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

“The Intersection of Mental Health and Relationships” with guest Alex Olosunde

Fudd Around And Find Out