The Power Of Therapy Feat. Mac Stanley

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
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Speaker 1 (03:22):
We have a special guest today. I know YouTube you
hate when we ignore our guests, but guess what, bitches,
We're a podcast, so this is the run of show,
but we do. We have a very special guest today.
I'm very excited to have our dear friend and love
and marriage black therapist Max Stanley the Mac, the therapist and

(03:45):
co host of My Man's podcast Menage Mind here with
us today. Thank you so much for joining us on
the show. I'm really excited to have you this month.
This month, I really trying to dive into the power
of different different things. Vulnerability. We had Jamel hill on
last week.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
This week we're talking about therapy.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
We love therapy.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
If you guys didn't know, we do, I mean, I've
you know, I was thinking about therapy the other day
because I was like, when did I My entry into
therapy was actually in high school and I didn't even
realize I was going. I mean, I kind of knew
I was going in therapy, but like I was going
to therapy to really get out of class. But when
I went to when I went to high school, like

(04:30):
you know, you have to meet with the counselor, at
least in my school, you have to move with the counselor.
All the students moved the counselor, and I told her
that my parents weren't together and that like I really
didn't like know my dad, and at that point in
my life, anytime I would talk about my dad, I
would cry. Yeah, and probably that's probably what happened. I
probably cried like day one of school about my dad.
And so they developed these like I didn't. I don't

(04:52):
know even know how many different groups they had, but
they had a group specifically for children whose parents were
either going through divorce or were no longer together. And
so when I found out I was part of this group,
I was like, that's weird. But also I get out
of class once a week for an hour to go
talk in the church. We're in some sort of weird
like nun chapel or something. But it was actually really

(05:15):
it ended up being really healing and helpful for me
to just kind of talk it out. And I did
it actually all four years of high school.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
You're like, I'm gonna get out of class. Got damn.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
I was like, my parents are still not together. So
that was actually my entry into therapy. So maybe that's
why I guess traditional therapy never really I was never
scared of it. I know a lot of people are like,
I don't know, Yeah, I know if Jamila like kind
of resisted for a while for a long while, no

(05:46):
you think.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
So, yeah, I just you know, I didn't really resist.
And more so that I thought that, like no.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
You literally would say, I don't know, I'm really reasonable,
like I know how to like, I'm like i know
when I'm fucking up my my part.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
I may add, you would purposely fuck up.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean not in purposely. I
would just like I knew I was fucking up, but
also like I knew there was issues, but I was
just like, I'm gonna get to them when it's time.
I was I was doing shit with the knowledge that
I could be doing better things and that I was
probably doing because there was some other deeper roots, but
at the time I wasn't really ready to address those roots.

(06:27):
So I was like, I when I'm ready to move
up out of this, I will. But my first, my
first encounter with like professional real therapy was in my
relationship with my baby daddy. I was just like willing
to try anything all all things, and I really just
wanted someone to tell him that he was wrong. I get,

(06:47):
I mean, and I was right, like I should have
been a therapist. If I had to wherewithal to go
to school very long, I could have done it. Because
the one time I got a solo session, I was like,
so I just say, she was like, you're right. Everything
he said right. I was like, I know, Okay, I'm
gonna move on now. And that's what happened. But now,
because Erica did tell me over and over and over

(07:09):
and over again, I think you probably should call the therapists.
Now I finally broke down and I did call the therapists,
and I was supposed to go for a year straight.
That was my plan. I think I made it like
eight months consistently. I need to call her again, but
we've been moving around a lot, and also I feel
like it helped tremendously. And then I went for eight months.

(07:31):
And then when I got a relationship with Orlando, he
was like, do you want to get married? I was like,
I do, but you have to go to therapy consistently
for a year in order for that to be an option,
and then he resisted, but then he went. So I
believe in therapy, talk therapy, but also I also believe
in alternative methods of therapy, like doing mushrooms and Mollie

(07:51):
and yoga, yoga, streaming, going retreats, going out into nature,
and like being naked and during cartwheels. Those are also
forms of therapy for me. Also, LSD.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Mac, how did you get into therapy or like, what
was your experience.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
In therapy were you? Did you go to therapy as
a young man.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Or as I actually did not go to therapy until
I became a therapist because I have this theory that
most therapists go into this field looking to find certain
things about themselves that they need to address. Right, So
for me, I like to say, therapy chose me because
I never never was planning on being a therapist. I

(08:38):
just like psychology, and I kept on following that until
one der else, So, oh, you're a therapist. Oh so
what now what do I do? Because the whole time
I was trying to get an understanding of women. That's
why psychology was so intriguing to me, Like why do
we act the way that we do? What do women
think about? What's the best way to approach them? All

(09:01):
of high school and college. I was trying to we're.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Trying to get host, We're trying to get host mad.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I was trying to say that he became say.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
That that was a very expensive ploy.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
But then I met my girl early on at the
age of twenty, and we've been to you for like
ten years, so technically I didn't get to really live
on my prime. Do you I'm thirty to thirty one,
thirty one, yes, your birthday August ten, I'm Malia with
the best.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
So you've been with your wife for.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Ten years, ten years, ten years strong.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
You just said you'd feel like you didn't get to
live out your.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Prime, meaning you know, as young men like, we have
this idea that, yeah, at a young age, you want
to just go around and date and and and et cetera.
But for me, I had met her, I fell for her,
but I sucked at relationships. I didn't know how to communicate.
I didn't know how to be vulnerable and being honest.

(10:02):
I never learned how to be in a relationship. So
I went around me and I'm talking to my mentors,
all the men around me, Yo, how do I fix this?
What's the knowledge? No one had it? Nobody, So I said, Okay, cool,
I'm gonna go find it.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Is that what made you venture into couple's therapy specifically
because you needed the tools in your own relationship.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
I needed to fix my relationship, so I went to
look for the answers, and now I get to provide
it to everybody else.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Well that's a that's a good method. I mean, I
think men have such a difficult time being vulnerable and
just accessing they're accessing their emotions to like verbalize it.
I mean, I share in this Sometimes I can communicate,

(10:50):
but sometimes I don't want to, so I get it.
But men really just like don't have any space for it.
And I find that even in their close friends, Like
you said, you asked around and no one had the answers.
I feel like men don't ask and then like they
don't have friends, don't feel comfortable to check other men
like your fucking up or this is this is what
I did, Like what do you think that's about?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
I disagree with what I disagree because I do think
that us men, like we'll go to each other and
we'll talk about certain things. It's just that the answers
we're looking for, like we're not getting them in the
traditional way. Right. You would see men like I'm taking
you out because i noticed that your mood is down,
but I'm not going to say that you might be

(11:34):
going through it through a depressive state or anything like that.
But I'll engage in activities that can help you increase
your mood. And in terms of relationships, I do think
that men do a very poor job of holding each
other accountable. But that's because of guy code, right, Like
they could do some dirt and were aware of it,

(11:55):
but due to this concept of guy code. I'm gonna
just tell you just do not get caught. Hmm, all right,
versus saying, bro, you should not be doing this or
it's that.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
What are like? What are guy codes?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I mean?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Besides that, Like I'm curious to know because I mean,
I think women know a few of them, but like,
what are what are actual guy codes? And what is
the reason behind them? Is it because you just don't
want to look like a bit chazz nigga?

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Like?

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Is that what it is?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Like?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
You want to look like you're not supposed to get
another man's business?

Speaker 4 (12:23):
That too, I think it's it's a social construct that
was created created by men for men to protect each other.
The whole dating game was never created for women to succeed,
hence why men have always been the oppressor, the aggressor, right, So,
I think that social construct was also developed to ensure

(12:46):
that certain things can happen, but if it happens between us,
it's okay. For for a long time in society, men
were allowed to do whatever they wanted because women didn't
have the financial capabilities that they do now, So it
was accepted. Because I needed my husband to sign for
a car, I needed my husband to go to the

(13:07):
doctor's office. But nowadays that has changed. So the field
is more level now, and I would say that us
men are some of us like we do a very
great job of holding each other accountable. Now conversations around
me are changing. If I'm somewhere the toxic convos is
not taking place, I will label it or call it out.

(13:28):
I don't care how you feel about it, but we're
going to address it in a loving manner. So the
tie to some degree is changing.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Do you think that that's because of the people, like
the company that you keep or is that just an
everyday conversation with like men that you meet out and about.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
I think the tag therapist nowadays earns me a certain
respect and allows me to be comfortable to challenge certain
things that are being stated. Like in the locker rooms.
You can't do that. Now. You can't say that I
walk into a barbershop or men, the therapist is here, yo,

(14:05):
I need help right wherever we go. Now there's more
men seeking assistance because, for one, they know that, oh,
I can actually do better. And since there's more black
male therapists, they can understand me and they can see
me for who I really am. So the biggest issue
to black men going to therapy is the lack of
therapists available. There's only four percent of therapists that are black,

(14:28):
only one percent that are black mail, right, so we
cannot meet the men as of yet.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Do you think that that's because well, I mean, I
guess just this the taboo around therapy in general. So
like most black men are not going to go into
that field, Like there's like, why would I go into
a field that I don't even I don't.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Even want to participate in?

Speaker 4 (14:49):
I agree one because.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Like I've had a lot of I've had different men
approach me or asked me like do you know black therapists?
And I know black female therapists, even those are hard
hard to come by as well, but a black mail therapist,
like I think I found one and he was really old,
like I it was really I hadn't I had no
real resources to give.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
And also, like it has been said that the therapeutic
field don't pay, so a lot of men that are
grow that are growing up and hearing that based on
societal conditioning, a man is supposed to be the earner.
So why would I enter a field where I'm told

(15:33):
we don't make money, right, we're making fifty k a
year or et cetera. I'm here to tell you that's
not true.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
I was gonna say, because.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Therapy, that's true.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
First of all, I read my numbers in my therapist
as your therapist bekking I know for hour.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
I mean, yeah, it's changing now, and that might be
due to the demand of therapy and the representation of
it as well, and also like therapy is needed.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
I feel like men don't go to therapy because they
just have like bigger egos and they generally think that
they can solve their own problems or that they have none,
and they're like just like a little bit less likely
to be like I'm going to do the shadow work
and go back to my childhood. It's not like first
on their list. How do you even deal with that?
Like the just the belief that they don't need it,
Like I don't need that shit. I'm good.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, very curious about that.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
I get that all the time, very curious about that.
The wife calls me, Hey, we need couple therapy, but
he doesn't want to show up. What do I do?
Get him in for the first session? Then, as the therapist,
it is my job to engage everybody that's in front
of me. By session five, ninety percent of males are
crying in session that's a fact. It's the first time

(16:47):
they get a space where they could really express themselves
how they really feel. Also gain the language, the vocabulary
to say I'm feeling blank. That's where most men get stuck.
I feel blank. Now you're bring out the feeling chart,
Hey brother, how do you really feel? And they're seeing
their feelings in a word for the first time ever.

(17:08):
Because men are comfortable with three emotions, anger, sadness, and happiness,
women have millions of emotions. That's why a man will
only listen for two point five seconds before moving to
problem solving. Because if you're complaining about something an emotion
that I'm uncomfortable with, my mind directly goes, Okay, how

(17:29):
can I solve this as quickly as possible so I
don't have to sit in that discomfort that I'm experiencing now.
So by session five, we're having the uncomfortable conversations that
most couples tend to avoid. The man is voicing how
he really feels, and I'm also coaching the partner on
how to properly respond to a man, respond to a

(17:52):
man expressing themselves. That's a missing piece.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. I know that
I fail at that all the time. I've been single
for five years. I have mostly dealt with women and
the way that we communicate. So then having a man
enter my space and having to communicate with him in
another way, it feels like pulling teeth. And I was

(18:18):
having this conversation with my trainer that sounds so Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Matrena shout out to six Pac City.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
I love that man, and he he's kind of like
a he's not a therapist, but he be coaching both
of most of his clients are women, and he's super
intelligent and coaching us. And I was telling him about
a situation that was happening with my partner, and he
was saying, you know, a lot of times women fuck
up because they don't realize that how they can disarm men.
They can disarm you. You can disarm us with your
sensuality and your sexuality, but you always go to aggression.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
You always go to.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
You're not doing this, this, this, and this, and instead
it's like if you basically prop your man up, make
them feel like a king, tell them all the things
they are doing right more consistently than that they're doing wrong.
That when they actually do something wrong, you really don't
have to do much to make them understand. It's really
a matter of just saying, like that really disappointed me. Yeah,

(19:14):
And that would be like crushing for them because you've
done so much to make them feel like on this
I guess essentially on this pedestal, whereas women a lot
of times were like, you didn't do this, you didn't
take out the trash, you didn't do this, and they're like, well, shit,
I'm already not doing all this shit anyway, I might
as well just keep doing what I'm not doing.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
A lot of men feel invisible in their relationships. It's
like they're not seeing what they do is not being
recognized or celebrated. And you set a key term.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
God, I was just telling you to pull back a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Sorry. Yeah. So there's a racial five to one for
every negative thing you say or do in a relationship,
you need five positive things just to counter that one thing. Right, So,
our brains job is to remember what hurt us so
it can protect us in a relationship. Our brain does
a very good job of noticing everything that our partner.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Do wrong, keeping the score exactly.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
So now we need to retrain ourselves to also focus
on what are the positive things that they're actually doing
and labeling that more on a five to one ratio
at all times. So think of your relationship as an
emotional bank account. Are you making deposits or you're making withdrawals.
The more deposits you have when it's time to have
a conflict, it's not going to be that bad because

(20:29):
you have a long leeway due to the deposits. But
if the bank account is overdrawn, any small fight feels
like a big deal cheat code.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
M Yeah. I think also, like even for me, it's
hard for me to do to use words of affirmation
because I didn't receive that a lot as a child.
So it's like it's like I can think kind thing.
It makes me selling a bit, but it's hard for
me to constantly affirm because I'm not used to that
type of communication. And yes, I like hearing it and

(21:05):
receiving it and it feels good, but sometimes it's hard
for me to be like to have a vocabulary even
for that, like you so I love you. That's like
I love you. That's like you don't know that I
love you, instead of like you're so smart, or you're
like doing this so you do really good at this,
or like even with my child, I realize like I'm
just assuming that she knows that she's great. But I've
had to really work on using my language and use

(21:28):
my words to affirm and make people feel good because
it's just it hasn't it's not my necessarily in my
nature because I haven't been I haven't been raised that way.
So it's like communication is a big fucking deal. And
I know, like even for me it's difficult, So for men,
I can only imagine how difficult it is. Yeah, I
know that you primarily have a couple like marriage and

(21:50):
couple clients. What do you in their primarily black couples? Yes,
what do you? What would you say, like your top
two issues that you get? Like, what are when people
come to you? What are the top two or three
things that are usually the prime issues at hand in relationships?

Speaker 4 (22:09):
You're ready for this. So my specialty is in fidelity
of recovery. And the second most issue that nowadays that
most couples are coming to me with is porn addiction
after transitioning from being a parent, from being a couple
to a parent.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Wait, so the first one.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
Is in fidelity recovery. He or she cheated and they
want to make their relationship.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Are the men or the women primarily cheating? More?

Speaker 4 (22:39):
I get both. It's even, it's even okay.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
And then the second one is poorn addiction after post baby. Yes,
so they were so they were addicted to porn before.
The addicted woman isn't giving them any pussy. Correct, they
develop a porn addiction, and then now the wife is upset, Yes.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
Because they're not performing well in bed, right, they're not
seeking intimacy at all? Right, why go and try to
get laid when I could just go over there after
for five minutes, have millions of choices and get that
done with.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, men and women are different in that.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
And also the woman's body has changed and her needs
of change and the access he has to her has changed.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
She's tired, the kids are you're not sleeping.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well and irritable, your hormones are off. You're expecting more
from your partner and he doesn't really know maybe how
to provide that, or.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
He don't want to burden you by asking you for
intimacy when you just had a long day, Like it's
unfair for him to come be like, hey, so let's
have sex now when you finally get the chance to sleep.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I remember the like this one particular moment after I
gave birth, probably like six eight weeks after I gave birth,
and I was like holding the baby and I was
like on edge and my baby daddy asked me for
like some head, and I was like.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
How dare you?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
I literally wanted to shoot him, Like I never felt
so violent against some of my Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I remembered like trying to just he would come home
late and like come and like try to cuddle me,
and I would just try to act like I was
like I don't make one move. If I just don't
even breathe, he'll know like no, no, and he'll get
the picture.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
And I was like, and that feeling can last up
to three years.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
It did?

Speaker 2 (24:26):
It did?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I did.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I was like unhorny when I was pregnant.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I was unhorny during pregnancy after after a pregnancy. And
I mean, granted, there was a multiple of things happening.
Obviously it was a new mother, and there were things
happening in our relationship. But it was just like I
was concerned for my own self though. I was like,
and what's wrong with me?

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Like I because I would look at him and I'd
be attracted to him, but I'd have no desire.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Did you breastfeed?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Not very very long? Not very long, only three months?

Speaker 1 (24:53):
That was that was my thing. I brested for a
long time. But in that moment when he asked me
for something I literally had, I already felt like my
body was not mine. I felt like I had just
gone through this crazy process and that now and I
just I did. I felt like a cow. I was
like not like physically, but just like I was a
giving tree, like a giving well and like him asking

(25:13):
me for something else, I literally had this like doom,
a moment of like my whole existence now is to
give me to other people.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Correct, And that's when and fidelity tend tend to start.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
That's like the worst time of all time to ever cheat,
Like cheating on a bit you just had a baby
is like, I'm pretty sure there's domestic violence that like
that's happened significantly both of those because of.

Speaker 4 (25:38):
That, Yeah, because they're not having sex, he feels like
his needs is not being met. She feels like as
a mom, she's doing everything, and on his side, he
feels like he's doing everything else. But no one is
giving each other any recognition, any grace, and any positive affirmation. Right,
And what most men need to realize is that in

(25:59):
order to continue that intimacy, you have to be able
to help her move away from being a mom. If
the child is around, she's in mom mode. She's not
your woman.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Removing that she can remove the kid.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
But you know what I find too, which this has
been like super appalling for me, Like, I mean, I'm
sure everybody has this, like when we're when you're around
people and they say things and you're like, wow, this
is really how people think. But you know, we went
on this terrible fucking show one time and the men
I'll never forget, like we mentioned that we wanted to

(26:31):
be happy. We were like, well we became single moms
because we weren't happy, and they like they they were like.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
You're not supposed to be Like basically you're supposed to
suck it up.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
You made the choice, like, as a mother, our role
is to be selfless and to sacrifice, and like you're
not going to be happy all the time, and obviously
this is life like happiness is not going to be
all the time, but basically like live in it, sit
in it, and like be happy. The word the term
that was was like were you getting beat? And like
if you're not being beat and you're being taken care

(27:06):
of and like your basic needs are met like food
and water, like and you've chosen to be a mother,
then that's all you're like deserving. And I couldn't I
was trying to articulate like how crazy this statement was,
and they were literally looking at me like I was
the dumbest bitch alive. And it dawned on me like
a lot of men feel this way. And even in

(27:27):
comments like this is a terrible reflection, but an accurate
reflection of the world. All the comments on the Shade
Room and other big like black outlets when they were
talking about single mothers even had we had a Rolling
Stone article come out recently on Rolling Stone and the
title of the article is like, I don't know, like

(27:50):
black like making bringing black motherhood to the mainstream, bringing
black motherhood to this mainstream. In the opening couple opening sentence,
it's something about celebrating single motherhood instead of it being
this you know, dire hardship to you know place where
it's been you know significantly in media, if you're a
black single mom, you're fucking struggling, You're a welfare you're
tele a Perry movie getting beat. But like, fuck, I'm high.

(28:14):
What I was gonna say? Oh so I Orlando showed
me the tweets, and some of the tweets were like
this is the reason, Like this is the problem with
the black family, Like women don't feel like they need
the men. Women are celebrating single motherhood. That's the problem
with the dynamic. And it was just like it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Hop you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Basically is what it is.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Right, Like women are really really we're really programmed to
feel like we have to figure it out. We have
to make the relationship work. We have to like and
if you have a baby and then you have a
you know you and it doesn't work, it's on you.
You fucked it up. And I just like there's no
accountability on both sides. And my question for you is

(28:57):
do would you recommend people orbs that are thinking about
having kids just like pre marital therapy, have pre pre
like pre natal therapy.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Well, like, you can prepare for a child, but let's
be honest, until you're out there with them, you really
don't know. I under two highly do not recommend, do
not recommend, do not do, do not do it to yourself.
And everybody's asking me, are you're going to have a
third I'm like, hell no, I finally got my wife back.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Oh they're both like, how old are your kids?

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Two point five? And I don't one? Just just turn one?
Like last week, I finally is getting my wife back.
We're finally going on a lustication next week.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
What is a lustication?

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Lustication?

Speaker 1 (29:42):
You're just gonna do lusty shit on vacation.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Shiit twenty four seven Fashion over card looking crazy right now?
The game ten years in the game. You gotta find
ways to keep it funky and to keep it sexy.
But again, what you said is very meaningful because most
men tend to benefit from being in a relationship compared
to women. If a man is in a healthy, long

(30:07):
lasting relationships, his life spent increase for up to six years.
He's less likely to have a mental health issue or
physical health issue.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Without a partner with a partner, he's more likely to
not have those, He's.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
Less likely to have that because you guys, hey go
to the doctor. Hey you got to eat.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Because women are nurturing men.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Correct, we tend to do better financially, right, because we're
not out there going on days, going on this buying unnecessary.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I can't for you to tell me what happens to women.
We dive faster. I'm dying faster. This is a good question.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
I don't have the data.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Data.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah, but the reason why most men tend to not
favor women that are taking ownership of their lives and
choosing not to be in unhealthy relationships is because it
does not benefit them. They want you to continue to
play that role. You should just be lucky to be
with me. You should want to be with me no

(31:05):
matter what's happening, because we have a child together, even
though I'm not meeting your needs and I'm not showing
up properly. It's called emotional intelligence. That's the number on
red flag in all of dating. So the people that
you're talking about, if they can even grab that concept,
why even have a conversation with them. You're wasting your time.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
It's literally like speaking to someone who doesn't speak the
same language.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
It was a waste of.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Time, which is why if you watch that episode, I
literally stopped talking. I was really trying me lat what going.
I was like, bitch, you know what, you better, you
better go for a girl you know.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
And no brains were sparked because they weren't smart enough.
But and she I looked at her after like I'm
embarrassed that. I'm sorry guys that your husband is participating
in this in this way, and she looked sad.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Also, with infidelity, when the men cheat, most women tend
to try to make it work.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Wait, most women try to make it.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
Work, yes, because society has taught women that you should
fight for your relationship. And if the relationship does not work,
you're a single mom. You're taking care of the child primarily, right, Financially,
you're more responsible for that child as well for the
daily cost. Right. So, technically speaking, a woman loses a

(32:29):
lot of privileges by being a single mom. For the men,
if the women cheats, they want out. Men are taught
to replace whoever caused them the injury, not work through it.
So you will see a lot of men that will
basically walk away from a relationship if the women to
some degree committed an infidelity, right, because how dare you

(32:51):
do that to me? It's my ego to talking now,
I cannot work through this because somebody has had access
to you. So it's very interesting to see you has
society has conditioned both men and women to deal with
the similar experience.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
So I believe that people can work through in fidelity.
I mean, and you obviously know more this, more about
this than I do. I do believe that though, like
when trust is broken, it is so difficulty to get
it back. I know, for me in my relationship with
my child's father, you know, and he cheated. I consciously

(33:28):
made the choice. I said, Okay, I'm choosing to stay here,
and I'm making the conscious choice to stay here, and
I'm not going to bring up the past. Like I'm
not going to do that.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
It's impossible to do.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I did it, but not right. So I didn't bring
up the past verbally. I didn't bring up the past verbally.
It came out through other ways. And that's what I
realized is that like, I'm still holding you to this,
and you know, I like, how do you I guess
with your with your clients, like where trust has been

(34:01):
like drastically broken. Like, what is like the foundation that
has to happen or like the steps that have to
happen to kind of get that back, because I feel
like so many people will experience this, and so many
people have walked away from relationships that were probably really
good for them just based on you know, in an infidelity,
they've decided to kind of uproot their entire life and
say fuck this when it really could have probably been

(34:22):
worked through. So what are the kind of like beginning
steps to getting trust back on either side?

Speaker 2 (34:30):
So, and is it different for men and women?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
It's the same concept, right, And also like infidelity can
bread a healthier, stronger relationship because it forces you to
have the conversations on it that we were avoiding which
led to the enfidelic the first place. But the first
step is you got to be honest about everything. Right.
I get to sit there and ask you all the

(34:53):
questions that I want to ask because I have a
narrative in my mind of what took place and I
need to make sense of it. And you have to
be completely honest about every single thing that I'm asking you.
So now everything is on the table. And then I
can decide on whether or not I want to try
or exit. The second thing that most men have the

(35:16):
most issue with is realizing how much time it's going
to take to build back that trust after they committed
an infidelity. They're like, oh, it's a year and you
still bring that up. No, she's going to experience those
PTSD symptoms for up to five years, right, and you
got to input the proper boundaries. I want access to

(35:36):
your phone, I want your location at all times. I
want to be able to show up to your job
at any time.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
So this is healthy.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yes, you committed a crime. Now you have to do
the time. That's how I can learn to trust you again.
I need evidence that I can trust you. So I'm
going to look at different things to see what or
not my desire to trust you can be honored. I

(36:04):
need you to switch out that car because you had
that bitch in that car.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I agree, Like, my PTSD is so fucking high. Like
I can have a fight, I can remember some shit.
I can't remember some shit in my head and get
mad all over again, and I'm like, I know it's
not healthy.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
Five years.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I'm like, I can hold onto some shit and the
I'm like, and I realized for me, it's a it's
been a a defense mechanism. If I can relate to
something that they've done to me that made me not
trust you, then when you do something that makes me uncomfortable,
I'm like, you know what I want to It makes
me want to rid myself of you. It gives me
an excuse to be like I'm good, Like in my

(36:43):
past and other relationships that I didn't think were going
to be long like forever, I can build up the
tallies so then I'm like, all right, I'm done with you.
But in this relationship with Orlando, when I know we're
not leaving each other, it's really had to It's really
made me have to pull some shit because fuck, like
I am irritated with you. You did fuck you did

(37:05):
do some shit that I didn't trust that and fuck
with but I'm not leaving you. I don't want to
leave you. And now it's making me deal with that
more like a why can't I, like, shit go be
if I really love and forgive someone, like the forgiveness
is hard for me and it's like I'm realizing, like
it's deeper than that, you know, like it's easier for
me if I feel like you could, Like, it's just
it's easier for me to be like rid myself of

(37:27):
people than to work on stuff. And so being in
a relationship that I know I'm gonna I have to
work through stuff, and like the bigger scheme of forever
has been really challenging but also really healing, because it's like, bitch,
why are you so insecure right there? Do you believe
he doesn't love you? Do you believe you can't trust him?

Speaker 4 (37:42):
Like?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
What are those things? And why is it easier for
you to dispose of someone that you love rather than
work through it? And it's because I've never seen that.
I've never seen it, Like I've seen craziness. I've seen chaos.
I've seen like my mom not forgive for probably a
lot of fucked up things that were done in her,
you know, to her and her relationship. But just like,
changing the dynamic of how you like want to respond

(38:04):
to things innately is very difficult.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
Anxious attachment and he's a secure attachment. So when you're
having these anxious thoughts and when you want to run
away and when you're feeling uncomfortable, he can do a
very good job of reminding you, hey, I ain't going nowhere, yo,
this is forever. Okay, you're tripping right now, It's okay,
let's sit, let's chill, Let's pick that back up at

(38:28):
a later time. So we have to be very mindful
of exactly how we are wired for relationships and who's
the best partner to help us get into a secure attachment.
You're not really healed, well, you're never healed. You're always healing, right,
But the final step is a relationship because that person
is a mirror of you. Can you find a way

(38:50):
to make that relationship work? Like did your relationship fail
or did you fail to make your relationship work? And
that's where the work really begins.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Did your relationship fail or did you fail to make
your relationship work?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I think it to be careful with that too, especially
saying that to women, because, like we've talked about before,
it's it seems like it's constantly always our responsibility to
make it work. And I see a lot of times
with like friends and even with myself, where you overextend
when a person's not emotionally mature or intelligent and you're trying,
and you're trying, you're trying. You're trying to do magic
and witchcraft and prayer and anything in your fucking power

(39:27):
to make this person understand you. But like, even back
to what we were talking about about women, the benefit
of men and women's lives, the inconclusive, fucking inconclusive proof
that we benefit from it. But it's like even in
my relationship now, like I when I'm single, I feel comfortable,

(39:51):
you know what I mean, Like unless I get lonely
one night, but like mostly like I get to move
this way, I get to do this. Like for a
long time, I always said, like a man has to
come to me and be super clear, like I want you,
we want to I want to do this or else
I'm not going to be the one to initiate it.
Like I don't feel like that's a woman's responsibility to
be like I want to be Like obviously you can
have needs and wants. I want to be married, but

(40:12):
I'm not gonna go. I don't feel like it's my
responsibility to choose the man. I think he's supposed to
choose me. And thankfully I found a man who chose me,
like out loud, or else I would have been single
and mingling for the rest of my life.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
I actually think that's the biggest mistake that most women make.
They allow men to be the chooser, meaning I'm choosing
you so you get to be with me, versus the
woman having a say into who they end up with.
And he did choose you, but you also chose him, right,
so it was vice versa. But in the dating world, right,

(40:42):
men tend to be the one that are multi dating.
They tend to be the one that decide when we're
exclusive or whether or not we're in a relationship. What
the shift that needs to take place is that women
need to stop waiting to be chosen and start being
the chooser themselves. That's why most days the books right
are written for men. Hey, here's how you pick up women,

(41:04):
Here's how you do this. The game was never given
to women. So it's now that's changing because we have
apps where women are the one initiating and the one
that that are starting the interactions. That's empowering women to
decide exactly to play a pivotal part into who there

(41:25):
are actually dating. And for the record, women always make
the first move.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I'm women, Yes, I do always make the first move
pretty much. I feel like I do the choosing a lot,
but I don't know, like if my choosing is always great,
it doesn't mean that the choosing is great, you know,
just because you become a chooser to mean that you're
choosing is always wonderful. Although I mean I said, I
don't regret any of any relationship I've ever had. I
feel like it's led me to where I'm at in

(41:51):
this moment. It will continue to do that.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
But I feel like it does have to be an equal.
It has to be you do.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
He has to be doing the choosing, You have to
be doing the chose, or else there's just an imbalancing relationship.
And granted there will inevitably be imbalances in relationships, but
I feel like that that foundational part like has to
be equal at least for me in order to feel
like safe in ways. And that's where I feel like
I've struggled to find that or have like clear understanding.

(42:17):
If did I do the choosing, I mean, I did
kiss you first, but then you told me this, and
then I said, oh my god, like he chose, like
he's I'm special. Like this bitches are basic, but like
also we just it's not even basic. It's like, we
have this innate need as humans to feel connected or wanted,
and I don't know if that leans heavier with women ways,

(42:41):
because I feel like the man is a little bit
more like impulse driven, ego driven, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
But women want to be chosen though, and we will
go great lamps to be chosen. Even if then we
get chosen, we're like, I don't even really want you, yeah,
you know what I mean. And it's like, it's this
weird it's this weird thing. I don't know why we
do that.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
For number of reasons. We also have to think back
to how things started, how the culture was, how society was. Right,
these mindsets have been passed down from years to years, right,
so now the desire to be chosen speaks to the
security of having a husband, having a home, But all

(43:20):
of that is changing. It's twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three.
Women are making way more money than men. Podcasters are
killing the game right now. So you get to have
a bigger say into what your relationship looks like and
who you are with, and you have the freedom to
exit whenever you feel you're not getting what you want.

(43:42):
Because most women are not holding men accountable are you
who you say you are? Are you going to do
what you say you're going to do? What is your
emotional intelligence level? What's your communication skills? Have you gone
to therapy? Oh no, and you want to get married? Nah,
take your black ass there and shit.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
A lot of men, like I think women also are
choosing men that are not necessarily saying they're ready for
marriage or ready for relationships. Like that's step one, Like
are you even ready for is that what you want?
Because that's a whole choice in itself. I do want
to be in a relationship. I want to be in
a relationship with you, and my goal is that will
be married. You know what I mean? Bitches be chasing
I mean people be chasing people. But like I think

(44:23):
the need to be married and to be are like
the value being related to your relationship status weighs much heavier,
and for women it's much more important. I know so
many women who like that's like women we obsess, you know,
And it's just like sometimes you're chasing men that are
not even do they even want that? Are they ready

(44:43):
for that? And it's like he could be a great guy,
but this is not the time. He's not even thinking
of that because there's twelve bitches on his line or whatever,
So it has to really you have to find a partner.
I think also that really is clear that that's what
they want too, and.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Most couples need to start talking about monogamy. We actually
monogamous or we pursuing monogamy because a number of us
are saying we're monogamous, but in reality we're pursuing monogamy
or we're trying to be monogamous, we're actually not monogamous.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (45:16):
What is the other thing though?

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Like?

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Is it they're open?

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Are they like?

Speaker 1 (45:21):
What are they like? Non monogamous?

Speaker 4 (45:24):
So to me, I think that a lot of couples
want to be in a monogamous relationship. But what when
when I'm saying pursuing monogamy is that eventually there's there's
there's gonna be times when there's a lack of intimacy,
when there's other people that that you're interested in, or

(45:44):
when you make a mistake because you're not really monogamous,
you're pursuing monogamy. Is to define exactly what does monogamy
mean to you? Right? Does that mean it's just you
and I forever? If that's the case. Are you are
we able to say know to each other? Because if
we're monogamous and we're in a relationship, I'm seeking intimacy

(46:06):
from you and you're saying no, then what what am
I supposed to do? Because I have no other option? Right?
Or the conversation that I've been having a lot lately
is women telling me a monogamous meaning that we are
pursuing monogamy. But if one of us mess up, as

(46:26):
long as it's not no woman, it's coming to me
as a woman or no man is dming me, It's okay.
Just take care of home and whatever else you do
outside of home is done respectfully. So is monogamy working
or is monogamy felling?

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Are you saying be realistic with your expectation. You're saying
the reality that I'm going to meet somebody and we're
going to one hundred percent be monogamous in the entire
our entire rest of our lifetimes. Can maybe that may
be slim to none. The truth is they may be
times you may not want to feel intimate. They'll be
changed in on relationships. But a let's talk about this

(47:07):
respect me. Let's be honest with each other and then
let's go from there and maybe it looks different at
different parts of time because we're gonna evolve and things
are going to change. But let's be realistic about our expectations.
If you step out or if I step out, and
its solely just get these other things I'm not getting
right now. Am I gonna leave you? No, Let's agree

(47:27):
to that, Like we have a I do. I think
people don't look at marriage enough in this light.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
It's like, well, that's it's because it's very drawn to
religion and these others. There's so many other factors involved
into why people can't accept that.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
But it's like, think about it. Think about it, Like
if I we're gonna me and you, we're gonna be
together forever we're married, bitch, sorry, got it. You know
we're never getting divorced. It's not an art vocabulary. And
like we have to expect that we're going to disagree
at times, We're gonna get annoyed with each other. We're like,
she's gonna find some other friends sometimes, maybe shouldna go
on vacation with somebody else? I can't dumper, you know

(48:03):
what I mean? Like it's flow relationships. Yeah, like and
just just ships or lovers, especially as lovers because you're
living with someone and in the like bigger scheme of forever,
you have to like if you really want to be married, like, Okay,
this is like let's be real. Obviously I'm not trying
to hurt you and vice versa, but like, let's just
be open to knowing that this is going to require

(48:25):
work and neither of us are going to be perfect
and maybe like, no, I'm not going to sign up
to go fuck somebody else, but like if I'm on
vacation and you're never going to fucking think, know about
it or hear about it ever in life, are you
gonna fucking divorce me because I did it? No, you
know what I mean. And I'm not saying like, be
a sneaky bitch, but I'm just like, there's a difference
between being a sneaky Life happens, yeah, Like and it's

(48:47):
just like you can't leave. You can't leave people. And
that's the thing I think with women and like with women,
and I've learned this and just having trial and error
and not and all the relationships I've ever been in,
if we don't feel safe, I don't feel safe that
I can fuck up, like women don't get the grace
to fuck up or sleep with somebody. Now you're a slat,

(49:07):
Now you're contaminating. Now you've let someone enter you. And
it's like the truth is is like bitch is lo
wan to fuck sometimes too and sometimes and I can
do it sometimes. Not attached to emotion, but the thought
that someone could like that, I that someone will leave me.
I've never really felt safe that someone will not leave
leave me if I fuck up? You know what I mean?
Because but if I but knowing that on the vice versa,

(49:30):
I would, I would, you know? So I just I
think it's this like men have to make women feel safe.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Can you think of one person that you know who
has been faithful for over ten years? Yes, don't say
your parents, parents.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
I wait, I don't know what they do, Okay, I
don't get in their business.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Do you know that has been faithful in a relationship
for for for over ten years?

Speaker 2 (50:00):
One of my friends and my closest friends is.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
A male or female? Okay, do you know any male
that has been faithful for over ten years?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Can you call on the show if you're a man.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
I'm trying to think if I know anybody that's been
together for ten years. I'm trying to think, like, I
don't know what her partner's done, you know, but.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Slam to none. Right, Hence why we need to start
having these conversations.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
You are you and your wife in an open relationship.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Now we're monogamous, you're monogamous or non monogamous.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Monogamous, anagamous. We're in the pursuit of anagamy to the
best of our ability. Is currently we're doing.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
A great basically you're monogamous, but on the pursuit of monogamous.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Meaning like, yeah, I get what you mean by that,
that's the goal you're always trying for.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
That, Yes, like it's a daily decision choose to be.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
But we're pm like they the amount of cause I get,
the amount of emails I get about in fidelity.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
That's someone I was I had to ask myself.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
It's just kind of really the testament to like our
like genetic makeup of human design and what we are
supposed to do instinctually and how we resist it. But
this is where like biology, you said, how we resist
it in all ways?

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Well, I was thinking that, like, are men and women
just fucking different? And you know, I don't want to
say that. You guys know, I don't want to say
it different. I mean, we are different, but like in
the sense of like you're supposed to be we are different,
but you know, men always use it against you, like
I'm supposed to be fucking not you. You know that
type of that's dumb, that's dumb. But like but in

(51:39):
ways like I don't know, like that we have to be.
We have to be. Why would we why would we
want to be the same. No, we can't.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
I'd be so boring. And also we would never there
be no children. You have a fucking dick and I
do not. Right, there's the biggest difference, right, like that
automatic you are genetically predesigned to have different impulses than
I have.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Period is the power of relationships.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
I do have a solution. We need to move away
from the term relationships because that comes with a set
of roles, a set of expectations that society has fed us. Instead,
we need to move toward partnerships because partnerships are negotiated, right,
and it has a timeframe, so when one thing shifts,
we can renegotiate correct. So therefore it's two people agreeing

(52:37):
on exactly versus we have disagreement of relationships, but there's
a bunch of things happening that I never agreed to,
and that's where the betrayal comes in. That's where the
trauma comes in. But if it's a partnership, right, we
sit down, we agree for the next three months, this
is what our partnership is going to look like, the
next two years, the next three years, whatever the cases.

(52:59):
And when something shift that like children, new jobs, new location,
long distance, age, medical issues, whatever it is, we get
a chance to restructure that partnership.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah, I was having this conversation with my partner and
I was telling him that I, like, I want us
to be such good friends that like betrayals don't feel
like betrayals, you know what I mean. Like there's a
level of like friendship of like I love you whether
or not this like this happened or that happened, like

(53:33):
you know, like, and I think the foundation of even
being able to even like start that feeling is friendship.
You have to have that with like, you have to
be my friend because like a lot of people don't
even like their partners. They just want their love. They
don't give a fuck if they're their friends. They don't
actually want to be their friend at all. They're like,
just show me that you love me, show up for me,
to be there for me. That's what did And it's

(53:55):
like do you even like me? Like do you do
we even have the same interest at all? Like do
you even know anything about me?

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Actually? Like why do you? Why do you actually like me?

Speaker 4 (54:05):
Friendship tends to be a frust thing that goes in
long term relationship well, and I.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Think that's where people get confused. It's just because you've
been together for a long time. Just mean that your friends, yes, and.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
They're like, well i've known him for like ten years, you.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Know we are No, Nika, you're not.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
I don't mean shit, because if there was another him
walking around the street, you wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Be like no, it wouldn't hear shit.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
And but you know, it takes a level of like
I don't know, therapy to kind of really be able
to realize that in relationships like what is your how
many people would you say, like get divorced, like go
to therapy? Like do you think it's higher chance that
people stay together going to therapy or that they kind
of like therapize themselves into understand understanding.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
So I do think that more people get divorced that
don't go to therapy, and the number is one hundred
thousand couples in America alone get divorced with no therapeutic intervention.
And couples tend to wait six years too late before
going to therapy. They're playing defense, not offense. They wait
until infidelity happens, until poor an addiction happens, until lack

(55:10):
of intimacy happens, prior to going and getting the tools.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Oh, I think that's.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Too, Like you look at it as something fun, Like
you get to go and like do this thing with
your partner, you know, and get to know each other
and like really like break down your relationship and like
because that's what I think of when you say offense,
Like instead of you know, going obviously going to therapy
when there's something wrong, what if you went to therapy
just to like out with a partner and have like

(55:34):
another person like kind of just really break down and
make you really get thoughtful about you know, why this
why you love each other?

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, Like, yeah, I do believe. I think like therapy
while dating is healthy. I think therapy before marriage is
super necessary and intend to be required required. I mean,
you know on the church they require, but I just know,
just with me and Mila, like talking is deeply therapeutic,
deeply therapeutic. You know, we've we've grown exponentially simply because

(56:05):
we started a podcast. We've been we've become much more
self aware of humans, simply because we decided to start
a weekly podcast. I feel like more comfortable talking about
my feelings here more than anywhere, because it's just this
safe space we've created and like I and it's made
me want to explore other realms of therapy and then

(56:27):
realize that like therapy is usually the most is the
most basic tools. It's literally our words, our communication, like
even just our retreat, like thinking about the like even
in our workshop, thinking about how it was developed. Just
like this worked for me because I went to Mexico
once on a whim and then took some acid and
it like unleashed some shit I didn't know was there,

(56:50):
and I screamed for eight minutes and then I felt
a release that I've never felt in my life, you
know what I mean. It's like the most basic things
like screaming, release of sound with even without words. You guys,
heavy gut belly fucking laughing, you know what I mean, crying, laughing,
like doing cartwheels, Like there are some very basic shit

(57:13):
that like there's some very basic basically.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
What children do.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
It is, it's literally what kids do. It's like scream
when they want they do fucking cartwheels.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Saying what saying, however you feel I don't like it,
I don't want it. No, don't touch me, Daddy, you
did this thing.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
And I just like, yeah, like all the therapy, all
the time, and I'm so happy that we're on this
journey together and we get to talk to people like
you Mac and have people like you in the community,
because it just makes me really think now, like when
we have other babies, maybe in the future, like you know,
you could think, hey, let's go to therapy before we
have this baby. Hey, like I'm gonna go on a

(58:00):
fucking three months sabbatical after I have a baby because
I gotta find myself, you know what I mean. Like
maybe you guys can fly out twice, but you know,
like normalizing things and creating like real situation, like now
we know better and that we can like have these tools.
It's just I'm grateful that podcasting has made me more
in tune with like what's like my wellness and what's

(58:23):
gonna make it like make me heal and grow and
be in a relationship and like actually be actively aware
of the things that I do that are toxic and
that I can be toxic and why and where that
shit comes from.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
And if you think about it, really just started with
like saying hi, my name's Erica. Like just talking just
one word sprouted into all these different experiences that you've
had that have been therapy.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
For you, hours of audio hours.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
It brought you to these other things that you know,
and that's and that's why therapy in itself and talking,
I think is so important. And I think if we both,
if we all just did it more often.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
We would be in a much better place and position.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
And you would find your people. And finding your people
and communicating with them is in its self healing. But
you have to first be honest and then be honest
out loud in order to find those people, Like Erica
and I found each other because one day we're like, hey, bitch,
I'm lonely and sad, you know, like and that that

(59:28):
sparked so fucking much. The ability to be honest is
just really the medicine that is the therapy, Like the
communication is literally the therapy. You just have to be
willing to do it. And it seems hard sometimes. I
understand that the simplest thing can be so difficult, but
it's deeply healing. Like you, we are given this tool.
Utilize that shit, Yeah, use your voice anyway.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
We just had a moment.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I was thinking all these things. I was like, Wow,
she's so beautiful. Yes, so right, Damn I need to
call my therapist.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
How am me and my man in therapy? I need
to be you need to be on the offense. Are
we gonna call mac? Is he like he's too young?

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
I get that a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I was wondering.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
I was wondering about, well, he'll ask my man doesn't
give your date of birth. He's a scorpio like me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
But what is that I was gonna ask you as
a therapist thirty Like with black men, I feel like
there's there's another number of reasons why they're not going
to go, and one of them is for sure going
to be.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Teach me how long you've been married?

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
For yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
And I've even had men ask me, are you Christian?
Do you believe in God? Like how does that help
the therapeutic process?

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Well, yeah, I mean I think there's levels of like,
as a therapist, I'm sure you have to be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Super what's the word, uh, ethical.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Ethical, but also non biased and like as balanced as
you possibly can in ways, you know, So I think
there is a level of almost like disconnect. You have
to have a therapist, right, because I feel if I
was a therapist, like i'd like really feel for all
my clients and be so concerned.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Like we need we need to start to go fund
me for her.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
She's like okay, like we're gonna like try to like
save each one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I couldn't do it. So you have to disconnect in
ways too.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
Yeah, And that's why there's a certain population I would
not work with, Like I have daughters. I would not
work with kids that have been sexually abused because I
will find whoever that was, and there's you know, your boundaries. Yeah. Yeah,
there's certain things that I can't take on too much trauma,
Like I will lay in my office on the floor

(01:01:38):
with the lights closed for hours. My wife was walking
like it was that bad. I'm like, you don't even
known all right. So that's why like couples I enjoy
because they want to be together, they just don't know
how to. I know how to, right, So I can
use my artistry to deliver the knowledge and the exercise
in a way that makes it very practical for you

(01:02:00):
to get the skills so you can eventually move on.
I see couples for bus six months, no more than that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Is your goal as a therapist to let them come
to their own conclusion or to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Heal their relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
So my goal, my job is to give you the
skills that you need to make your relationship work, if
that's what you want. Right. So people come to me
because they want to make their relationship work. They can't communicate.
Their friendship is bad. There's too much fighting, they're not
having sex, they're not having fun. It is just a

(01:02:37):
lot of things that are going wrong. So I get
to come in and fix the puzzle to some degree,
but also teach you on how to do it yourself
so the puzzle never gets broken again. Because now you
get to decide do I allow the puzzle to be
broken or can I actively fix it? Because you have
the skills and knowledge that's up to you. Got it.

(01:03:02):
It's fun have stories for days. No session is alike.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
I used to think I want to be a therapist,
and then in college I went I started the major
of psychology and it was so intense.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
I was like, this is too much. I loved. I
think I had to get pat. No.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
There was a lot of reading before you got to
the good Ship. It was a lot of like brain.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Science stuff, and I was like, I'm not nerdy enough
for this. Let's get to the talk part.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Since you brought that up, and I am a nerd.
I love learning. Right, let's talk about the role that
brain plays into infidelity.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Right, the brain, Yes, there's something released. Is it maybe
a hormone that No, it's the other one. It's the
hormone that is like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
Reward correct.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
So then it becomes like almost like an addiction not
to actually like to the action and not to the intimacy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Of it correct, which is true. But the way that
I was going is that our brain requires novelty. So eventually,
if you're exposed to the same thing, it no longer
have the same impact on you as it once did.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Like new pussies always feels better because it's new and
it's shiny, and you have the same What the fuck
are you over there about? You shut the fuck up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
So that plays a lateral in atogic, that too, right
eighty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
But it's got to be I got to source it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
I gotta take it out. We gotta get a test
for we have to take a picture. We gotta see
test run then because then hour just sucking point just
I feel like pussy has a higher chance of being
good than Dick does.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
It's a ninety nine point nine percent.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Pussy's going to be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Yeah, it's not well chances.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be a sizes people.
The sizes are come for us. We did that one
seventy seventh per it's for me.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Seventy seventy seven percent of women do not do not
orgasm from penetration.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Right, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
So why would a woman want to cheat knowing that
more than likely she's not going to have an orgasm?
A men's orgasm is guaranteed in most cases.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
It's another thing. That's it is. I told you to
be different. It's a setup. My grandmother confirmed it's a setup.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Usually we asked our guests an affirmation. Did you bring
an affirmation for us today? Matt? Can we tell you
we warned you about it?

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I did not bring an affirmation. Actually I do have one.
I think therefore I am.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
I think therefore I am Shakespeare. It's not I do before.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I know you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
I think you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Therefore I do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
That doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense at all.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
It's just the Shakespeare manifesting. I think it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
You're already there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Tarot time, Tarot time? Do was remembering some so today
you pulled the card?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
What car did you pull?

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
My dear the magician, the magician. That sounds fitting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
It does. I was like, wow, magician, huh, I think
therefore I am. It's upright. Its manifestation, resourcefulness, power, inspired
action um. As a master manifestor, the magician brings the tools, resources,
and energy you need to make your dreams come true. Seriously,

(01:06:29):
everything you need right now is at your fingerships. You
have the spiritual fire, physical earth, mental air, and emotional
water resources to manifest your desires, and when you combine
them with the energy of the spiritual and earthly realms,
you will become a manifestation powerhouse. The key is to
bring these tools together synergistically to that the impact of

(01:06:51):
what you create is greater than the separate parts. This
is alchemy at its best. Now is the perfect time
to move forward on an idea that you recently conceived.
This seed if potential has sprouted, and you're being called
to take action and bring your intention to fruition. The skills, knowledge,
and capabilities you have gathered along your life path have
led you to where you are now, and whether or

(01:07:11):
not you know it, you are ready to turn ideas
into reality.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
That's very fitting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
It was very fitting all the balance. Let's go, let's
go manifest some ship macifest.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Maybe you know what we need to add mac to this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Our secret mail retreat that we're not curating slash curating
called primal. So we have a secret mail for a
retreat that we're not secret. Tough.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
We were in a kitchen full of men and were
there We're talking about therapy and they were like, we
don't like we need like we want healing, but it's
not the type of healing y'all bitches do like we
need basketball? Like we did a retreat what a male
retreat looked like, and I was like some wrestling, like
some ATV, some like like chopping of wood yea, hunting, Yeah, punching.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
I'm down for that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
We got our fourth member. Yeh, I told you I was.
I was on the Good Vibe retreat call and then
man was in the backround. She's like, I know this
is for the ladies, and I'm like, come, but I
was just wondering and y'all gonna do something for the
husband's because my husband was like, hey, y'all. She's like,
is Orlando there. I was like, he's here. She's like hi.
I'm like, okay, we got the message. Primal, Primal coming

(01:08:23):
to a retreat near you for the men's. I can't
wait to see the visuals for that. It's gonna be
Orlando like shirtless, like walking through like the Jungle or something.
We're gonna curate it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
It's gonna be great. Don't worry, guys. It's gonna look really.
You guys are gonna love it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Oh, thank you so much for coming, Thank.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
You for having you. Thank you guys. I love your platforms.
My wife is an avid fan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Oh, thank you, wifey.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Thank you again. I I knew that you guys were
going to get a conversation out of me that I
haven't done before. So that's why I was very excited
because I get to talk about things that I usually
don't get to talk about as much. So I thank
you guys for that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Well that that makes me happy. I'm glad.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I'm glad that we are able to share space. I'm
glad that you've brought you're bringing therapies to black people.
And I have a question. Is there a resource that
like where is the is there a resource for people
that like, obviously you're a resource, but like, is there
an actual resource too of all of the black therapists.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
In the US.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
Blackmanheil dot com. Oh yeah, black girls Therapy, Black men Therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Okay, because I feel like a lot of people don't
know where to go, you know, and obviously like there's
only there's only one percent, like like you can't therapize everyone,
tell them that please?

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
But where where can the people find you? Mac?

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
You can find me on Instagram ask talk to Mac
on the scorad Therapist. Talk to you olkid the number
two Mac Mac on the scord Therapist. You could check
out my new podcast with my boy manage your mind
and for everything regarding therapy and my services, you could
find me as therapist for everyone dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Gotcha. Mac also has a really cool relationship deck card
deck that we like to play and ask each other
questions that gets you really deep with your partners. So
that's always a fun date night at home.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
What's it called love Unlocked.

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
It's about the five concepts that most couple tend to
argue about, so the questions are curated to help them
talk about these things so it doesn't turn into an
argument of different It's also worth two years of therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Wow, get the cards out here made Hey, I love
that two years of smart man man may get a
game here, Babe. We're not even going look, I'm gonna
doom it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
We're gonna play that game again.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
You guys know where to find us. Please, if you haven't,
if you've been thinking about it, join us in Costa Rica.
Bitch is about to be really cold next year, and
you're gonna wish you were in the sun, which your
titties out in your bathing suit on and barefoot.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
It's really gonna be mad when you see these pictures
and these videos.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
For me in the jungle doing cart reels with us.
There's a couple of slots left, so if you've been
thinking about it, come with us to Costa Rica and
February twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
Yes, the link is in this episode description. Make sure
you check out our merch. It's the holidays. I hope
you guys are happy, healthy, prioritizing yourself and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Buying our merch.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
As you can see Mila modeling it. It's so cute.
The bag is so cute. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
show show a little ass, Show little ass with people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Okay, make sure you follow our YouTube channel so that
you can see all this amazing content of our outfits
and Jamila shaking ass and everything's in this episode description.
Because I'm high, So I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Ellen j Solo ball record the las Ye

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Erica Dickerson

Jamilah Mapp

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Power Of Therapy Feat. Mac Stanley