November 3, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode, Pete interviews Karen Iverson, author of 'Winning the Mental Health Battle.' They discuss Karen's background, her journey through breast cancer, and her insights into mental health issues such as anxiety, depression, and mania. The conversation emphasizes the importance of open discussions about mental health, breaking the stigma surrounding it, and providing support to those in need. Karen shares her experiences and offers practical advice for listeners, highlighting the significance of therapy and understanding mental health conditions.
Takeaways
Karen Iverson has two master's degrees and is a licensed professional counselor.
Her books are based on personal experiences with breast cancer and mental health.
Mental health issues can manifest differently in each individual.
Depression is often misunderstood and can lead to feelings of worthlessness.
Open conversations about mental health are crucial for awareness and support.
Therapy can serve as a sounding board for various life challenges, not just mental illness.
Stigmatizing language can harm those struggling with mental health issues.
It's important to ask direct questions about suicidal thoughts to provide support.
There are resources available for those in crisis, such as the 988 hotline.
Everyone's mental health journey is unique, and understanding is key.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Karen Iverson
07:45 Journey Through Cancer and Mental Health
11:31 Understanding Mental Health Challenges
17:19 The Reality of Depression and Suicide
21:18 Exploring Mania and Misconceptions
25:15 The Importance of Open Conversations about Mental Health
25:40 Addressing the Ongoing Mental Health Crisis
26:25 The Importance of Open Conversations
27:34 The Role of Social Media in Mental Health Awareness
29:28 Engaging in Meaningful Conversations
31:05 The Impact of Isolation on Mental Health
32:54 Understanding Mental Health Diagnoses
35:48 The Stigma Surrounding Therapy
40:25 Breaking the Stigma of Mental Illness
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/pete-vs-anxiety--6084228/support.
]
JOIN MY TEAM ANXIETY FACEBOOK GROUP!!!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1582057112573164/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT
join the Pete vs Anxiety discord right now:
https://discord.gg/SZN8XptF
ticktock:@petevsanxietypod
instagram:@pete_vs_Annxietypodcast
Want to be a guest on Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!? Send Peter Dalke a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpr...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome into our exciting upsiddle Pete for Society, My guest
today is the author of the book Winning the Mental
Health Battle From Struggles to Thriving Seven Tips to navigate anxiety,
depression and menia. Please welcome in the One the Only
Karen iverson. Karen, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Saying well, thank you so much, Pete, thank you so
much for having me on, So.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Welcome for being here, Kar do mean a fair Go
ahead and tell me a little more about yourself. Let
him know a little bit about your background everything else
so they get a little more feel for you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Sure. So. I actually hold two master's degrees.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
One is in education and the other is in clinical
mental health counseling.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I've written three books.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Two books are about breast cancer and one book, as
you mentioned, Pete, is about mental health. And all of
my books basically tell a story of what I've experienced
in my life and offer tips sections that I've learned
through going through my own life and going through counseling,
as well as through becoming a licensed professional counselor.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I'm also a public speaker.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I speak on various events, and I'm an artist as well.
I've been a professional actress as well as I'm singing,
and I do fine art work as well, and.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We do like everything. Jeez, it's just cover everything on
that list time You're just like, here you go, what's
the next time I listening to do? I do know
that you know mentioned you were in a Beautiful Mind
and then a Law and Order right when in Law
and Orders?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, so I was in a Beautiful Mind. And that's
a whole big story.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And basically I was doing some acting at the time,
and I was actually on tour with a company and
I had gone to an audition in New York City
in the Lamb Theater and the casting director, Bill Dance
was there, and he told the whole story of what
A Beautiful Mind was about, and how Russell Crowe was
going to be the main character in Jennifer Connelly's and
(02:04):
what Russell Crowe went through, you know, in his mental
health struggles, and I so wanted to be in the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, he called me.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
He called everybody up to the front of the auditorium
one by one or in cares or groups, and I
was one of the last people left in the auditorium
and he calls me up with another girl and He
gets to me at the front and looks at me
straight in the face and he says, you look like
you spent the morning in the bathroom. And I just
(02:34):
looked at him and I reflected for a minute, you know,
taken aback, And then I was like.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, I didn't, honest, I didn't. And he looks at
me again.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
He goes, okay, you you and you go get your
pictures taken together.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So we went to the back and they shook our photographs.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And then I hadn't heard anything, and all of a sudden,
one day, I'm on the weekend away from the acting
I was doing, and I get a call directly from
bill Dance and he's says, Karen, we want to put
you in the movie. He goes, I want you to
be this character in the movie where if you're familiar
with the movie, there are a couple of Billiard scenes
where they're playing pool and I was supposed to be
(03:10):
one of the three girls in one of those scenes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And I said to him when is it. When are
you filming?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And he told me this is these are the dates
and I said, well, I have a conflict with that
date because I have another show with the company. That
I've been on tour with, and I say, can I
please call you back?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And so he's like okay.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So he gets off the phone, and I rushed and
Russian Russian and called a couple of friends and got
some advice from people and really thought it over and
trayed about it and decided that I just couldn't say
yes to him. So I called him back and Bill
gets on the phone and he says, Okay, well, what
is your decision?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And I'm like, I can't do it.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I said, I have a tour with another company that
I'm already committed to and I can't say no to that.
And he goes to me, he goes, well, you're going
to get your SAG card and I'm like, I am
understand that, but I just can't do it. And so
what happened was I then was told by all these people, well,
they're never going to put you in the movie. And
I had told him, please keep me in the movie anyway,
(04:11):
and a couple months later they did call me and
they did still put.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Me in the movie.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I just wasn't that main character that I was originally
supposed to be, but I was just so honored to
still be in the movie.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, that's so cool though, I mean, you could say
you in a motion picture. I mean, how many people
say that, especially when Russell Crowe? Did you get to
meet him by chance?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I didn't meet him personally, but I walked right by
him in one of the scenes, so we looked at
each other and we were right next to each other.
And the other thing which was really cool for me
was that I was on a similar situation with Ron
Howard because he's the director of the movie. And so
Ron Howard and I were walking down hallway opposite directions,
(04:49):
and we literally went right past each other and locked
eyes on each other as we walked by. So I
was like, that was really amazing to just have that
interaction with Ron Howard.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, my cat, that'd been awesome like that, that's in
the brag about there for sure. That's so cool, though
it's I don't know what I would have gone fanger, Honestly.
I would have been like, I don't know, I don't
know if I would have kept it together, honestly, because
I love Ron hundred films. He does really great and
Russell Crowe is a great actor too, man, And I'm
just like, I saw that too when it's an actor.
I was like, I'm jealous already, okay, And then how
(05:21):
did the law and Order thing come up? Though? That
that's interesting was that during your acting career too, when
you were doing a lot of traveling as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yep, that was when I was living in the New
York City area and I ended up being on a
couple episodes. One episode I recall with when I was
in a courtroom and they were doing a court racine.
And the other one, which I really recall the most,
was I was actually a prisoner and so I was.
They dressed us up in the law in the full
orange jump suits and they had us in a real
(05:50):
prison and it was an episode where all of the
guards were coming in with their big shields and their
swat you know, uniforms, and they were just coming charge,
urging at us, all of us that were the extras
who were the prisoners, and we had to run across
the room.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It was like the cafeteria against the.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wall while all these Sweat Team members came against us.
And I turned around and there was a table in
the way, and I didn't know what to do, so
I literally ran over the table to get to the
wall because I'm like, I got to get.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Out of here fast, you know, in my character and everything.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And the next take they did, they said to me,
don't go over the table this time, so I was like, okay,
So they did it again and I went around the
table this time, And when I actually saw the actual episode,
they used the scene that I went over the table
in the episode.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So it's really I was going to say the same
thing that he used over the table. That had to
be though. I mean, that makes sense. You're you're taking
up and hurry, Chane, jump this table, you know. I
think I think that would have been the better one too. Honeyson,
Glad that's the cut they went with, though.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, And I was, you know, we were in
this actual prison, so we actually went into some of
the cells and it was just an amazing perspective to
see what it's like, you know, and these all you
know silver you know, you know, a stainless steel towilet
and you know bed and small room and wow, this
is you know, a real real wake up call on
(07:11):
what it's like to be in prison.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. All right, so let's get to the
nitty gritty. Let's talk about the book. So how did
you come up with the book? I know you had
the other books, but then I saw a little preview
this because I was watching another interview you did, and
I think it was The Healing Something. I can't remember
the others the podcast to do you apologize because I
did check out ahead of time and I know they
were mentioning it. So how did you come up with
the Winning Battle? I know it is a series of books.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Correct, Yes, so the first two books are Winning the
Breast Cancer Battle and then this new book is Winning
the Mental Heals.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, yeah, there it was.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
There was, yes, and I really yeah. The breast cancer
books came about because I went through breast cancer and
when I was going through breast cancer, I found I
needed to journal, and I'd been a journaler my whole life,
and so so I literally, you know, journaled every single
thing I was going through during the breast cancer battle.
(08:05):
And eventually, years later I realized, you know, that I
was definitely making it into a book, and so I
had taken my journals, which at the time I had
started editing, if you can believe that, So, I mean
I had some sense that I was making a book
at that time. But then in twenty nineteen, I put
together the first book, which was The Breast Cancer Book,
(08:25):
and then I knew that I needed to write a
mental health book about the struggles I've been through in
mental health and help people that have gone through things
like anxiety depression, PTSD mania and really just get that
out there as well so that I can help the
people that are struggling in that vein as well. And
(08:45):
it just took a couple of years before I started
really focusing on that, more so because I wanted to
make sure that the time was right for me to
be publishing it and putting it out there, and also
to let you know, the world continue to progress and
getting away from stigmatisms and you know, really kind of
getting more aware of the different mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah. Yeah, No, this is not the first time that
we've touched breast cancer as a topic on the show. Actually,
I invited another author. She'd wrote a book called The
man Sect to me I've always wanted and she had
a double miss sect to be done, and she came
on and I read the book. It was really good.
I'm not going to lie. I was, like I told
people was reading this book, they catching me weird looks,
but I was just like, you know whatever, I'm going
to read this anyways. I'm enjoying this book. It's interesting
(09:30):
to get tough perspective of what this woman was going
through and the author she was going through her own
accounts of what was going on. So was your first
book kind of like that too, just going through the
thought process of what you were thinking at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So my first book, Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Empowering
Warriors and Guiding loved Ones. That book was based off
of the journals that I had written as I was
going through it. So, as I had mentioned, I was
really journaling all of my experiences, and I wanted to
gain and give the reader the sense of knowing what
(10:04):
it was like to go through breast cancer so they
wouldn't have such a hard experience and such a difficult
experience of not knowing what to expect, or not knowing
how things would go, or not knowing what to ask doctors,
or just being dark and blindsided. And so that's how
(10:24):
I had felt when I went through it, because I
didn't know anybody who had gone through breast cancer, and
the only thing I had known about cancer was that
my father had died when I was ten years old,
you know, of cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So you know, I wanted to shed that light for people.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I've been told by people with other types of
cancers as well that it's very relatable to them too,
because when you go through cancer, you go through a
lot of the same testing and a lot of the
same experiences. Yeah, so you know, I was happy to
hear that that it was helpful to them as well.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That's awesome. I mean, that's really cool that you're sharing
your own personal thoughts from your own journal, because that
was similar to the other book too. She was putting
her own personal like personal stuff in their shoe a
little bit as well too, So that's really interesting. So
then the where the Mental Health Battle. I love it.
I think it's a great idea for a book. I
just think, like when I started this show, I did
find the same thing, and now a lot of people
(11:18):
are talking about it, Like you get these doctors that
are talking about it. But the great thing is that
I'm not a doctor. I'm just an average person. I
have my own mental struggles I deal with personally. But
you know, like creating that space for other people to
talk about it is you know, been so important though,
and then after one year of the show ready I've
done over two in a different interviews. I could just
tell you that it just gets more interesting every time
you hit record, because, like when you talk about each one,
(11:41):
we have to keep in mind that everybody deals with
something different. Though it's not a lot of like the
same thing like a lot for a lot of people
with other things to deal with. You know, you don't
have similar You have similar, but you don't have the
exact same experiences. Now you may, don't get me wrong,
you may some people may have the same thing. But
you know you could probably contest this shoe though that
it's just different for every case, for everybody it deals
with it. Some people have different experiences when it comes
(12:02):
to those kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, there are a lot of different ways anxiety and
depression and PTSD and many I can present in a person.
There are certain characteristics that are stable within the diagnosis
of it. So you know, with anxiety, you might be
easily fatigued, you might have difficulty concentrating, you might be irritable,
(12:28):
you might have restless sleep, and of course you know
a main component is that you worry a lot but
you know, it presents differently for each person because we're
all unique individuals and we all have our own perspectives
on things, and we all have our own life experience,
so that all adds into it as well.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah. No, I agree. And what with depression, I think
it's its needs to be said.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Though.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
There was somebody recently on Instagram. This guy was like
posting this video and he's talking and he's telling people,
well that depression is not is not real. It's more
of a mindset. For anybody that doesn't feel depressions, you
want to give them a little idea of what it's
like with depression. I mean I can give my own account,
but what from yourself, from your research have you found
out about depression?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, depression really has to do with a mindset.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It is a mindset. It's an experience of your mind.
So it's having a really low mood. I mean, you
might be feeling like you're at the bottom and you
just can't crawl out of it, and no matter what
anybody says or anybody does, you just can't get up.
You know, you just might stay in bed and not
want to do anything at all. You can gain weight,
(13:40):
or you can even lose weight. You know, it can
be in this mindset where you are just not able
to make any decisions at all because you're just stuck
and you feel that that loss and that less intense
feeling of interest in anything, so nothing seems to be
interesting to you.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
You just don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And you know it also can affect your sleep. So
as I said, you might be stuck in bed, so
you might be oversleeping, or the opposite, you could be
under sleeping where you just can't sleep at all because
you're so depressed you can't fall asleep, and you just
have thoughts going on in your mind, and of course
a big one is feeling worthless. So just really not
(14:25):
thinking anything about yourself is good, just thinking that you're
not good enough, thinking that that nothing I do could
ever be good, and it becomes this kind of self
fulfilling prophecy in a way that you perpetuate these feelings
because the more we get stuck in that deep dark hole,
the harder it is to get out of that deep
(14:47):
dark hole. And the more we feel like we're worthless,
the more we feel like we're not good enough, and
the more we perpetuate that as well, and then of
course that can also lead to thoughts of suicide and
wanting to kill yourself, thinking that there's no way out,
and so maybe if I kill myself that at least
will stop this misery and this pain of having no
(15:08):
way out. Of course, the thing is that there is
there are ways out, and people do survive depression. Some
people do have long term depression and some people have
a shorter amount of depression. But there is hope.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
You just have to get to the point where you
find that hop Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
No, I agree, I have. I've been designing to press myself,
so I deal with it sometimes so but I want
to correct myself. The Instagram Live and referring to the gentleman,
he said that depression isn't real. I'm sorry, Maybe I
think I'm mistakenly said something different, guys, but it was
that he said that it's not real, it's not a mindset.
He's trying to basically discredit it, which is just the
craziest thing ever. It's like, dude, why are you giving
out this information? Mind you, this guy has no background
(15:48):
in mental health whatsoever. He's just some fitness influencer guy
that's posting things and you know, when he is trying
to basically tell people that, oh, well, it's just you know,
it's all in your head, this and that or something
like that. I didn't see the whole thing. I just
know Sault people talking about it though. But to get
to this, to talk about the Suicidi edition, I think
that's a great point, is that it's not that people
they want to kill themselves, they want to get away
(16:08):
from that pain. I think you made a really good
point with that. I think a lot of people don't
need to realize that when it comes to that is
that if someone were to unfortunately take their own life,
a lot of times it's they want that voice silence,
they want that pain to go away, all these other
kind of things. You know it's in and stop saying
it selfish, guys, whoever's out there telling you it, you
have selfish thoughts, it's not selfish because you know right there,
(16:30):
you're you're already giving it a bad name when you
know it's not the case of the situation. It's not
they're selfish. It's because they wanted something to stop, you know,
that pain, to stop that feeling that they don't feel
useful enough, or they're not worthy or they don't feel seen,
and you know, it's a lot of different factors when
it comes to that kind of stuff. So, you know,
with the subject of Sudi saudidation, Karen, do you have
any tips for anybody that may be worried their friend,
(16:52):
maybe be suicidals or anything they should be kind of
looking out for.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
One of the main things is to talk to them
and to listen to them and really listen to what
they're saying and really try to hear them and relate
back to them, reflect back to them what they're saying.
Offer them your support and your your present neess, you know,
being present with them physically, you know, or and emotionally.
(17:17):
One of the big things with suicide is can you
go one more minute? Can you hold on for one
more minute? Well, one more minute becomes two minutes, and
two minutes can become three minutes, and so it's it's
a matter of helping them get through the worst moment
that they're at so that they can get to the
other side of that worst moment where it's no longer
(17:37):
the worst, so that is that little bit better than
it was. There's there are national safety and mental health lines.
There's nine eight eight.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
You can call.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
You can always dial nine eight eight, or you can
text seven four one, seven four one, either of those
numbers you can text to or call seven four one.
Seven for one is just texting, but nine eight eight
you can call or text nine eight eight and just
you know, really reaching out to that person and supporting them,
being there for them.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think those are all really
great points. Let's talk about mania though. I love how
that's in the title, because I don't think a lot
of people know what a mania is. Like, I know,
people go manic and things like that, So do you
want to give them a little more explanation of what
a mania would fall under? What kind of things have
fall in that category?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, a mania could be anything from a decreased need
for sleep to having an inflated self esteem, you know,
just feeling like you're on top of the wall the world,
like everything is perfect and nothing at all could go
wrong and everything is exactly the way it's supposed to be.
It can be being very talkative, like you're talking really
fast and you just can't stop talking, and you're so
(18:45):
excited and you have pressured speech because you have to
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right now and you have to get it out.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It can be having very goal directed oriented activities, again
with that inflated self esteem that you or on the
line to be the perfect person and your job is
perfect and it's going to be perfect, and you're going
to be successful, and you're going to make a million bucks.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, it's.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Very very large in life. Your life becomes very large,
and then you can also do things that have consequences,
like you could, as I mentioned, think you're making a
million bucks, so you spend a million bucks even though
you might not have it. Or you might go out
and sleep with a lot of people and have sex
(19:30):
with a lot of people because you're you're feeling that
that's the right thing to do and that that's good
and you're feeling sensual. So it's a lot of those
type of things.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think a lot of people realize
that though when it comes to me, I know that
you know, somebody to hear it, but that's all they see.
A lot of people can experience somebody with menia, you know,
And I think that's one of the biggest problems too,
is a lot of people will see that and then
they won't know what the it is and identify what
it is, and they'll go, oh, well, they're just crazy,
when it couldn't be possibly, couldn't be that. It could
just be maybe they're going throumaic moment or something like that,
(20:01):
you know, or you know, any of those other things
that fall in that category though, and it's I think
it's the biggest misconception is that people, you know, when
we don't know something, we'd like to argue and say, oh, no,
they're crazy. And we got to stop doing that. We
got to stop labeling everybody is crazy because not everybody's crazy.
Sometimes it's just they deal with something that causes them
to be that way, you know, and stop like, you know,
being so dismissive, maybe learn some more about what it
(20:24):
is so we better understand what we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Definitely, because somebody who has mania is not crazy, they
might at times give the perception that they're being crazy.
Usually that's because they are not in balance. So when
you look at mental health, there is a line. So
if you have a balance line and everybody has ups
and everybody has lows, but that curve with somebody who's
(20:50):
going through mania is more severe. That curve with somebody
that's going through depression is more severe.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
So with the.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Mania that that up goes far they're up, and with
depression that down goes farther down. So it's just a
little bit of an offshoot of what quote unquote is normal.
I really don't like the term normal because I don't
think there is a normal. Everybody is their own unique
individual and everybody has their own mental status and stability,
(21:21):
you know. So yes, it's it's a matter of saying, well,
you know, what if if this person is normal and
that person is crazy, Well, what are this normal person
compared to some other person? So, you know, I think
you're right, I think we need to stop things.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
A good question there, though, What is normality?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, And I think normality is relative to us as
an individual, you know, what is our normal status quot
what is our normal you know, normal flora as opposed
to when we're out of balance?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a great point. I think
it's all a really great point though, you know, because
I think that you know, that's that's just something we
got to quit. And I think that, you know, with
this show, that's the goal is to educate more people
on mental health. Inviting people such as yourselves and other
people come on to talk about these things so we
can make the conversation louder, you know, and people can
understand that these are things that people deal with, you know,
(22:15):
and it's other than just anxiety, depression, all the things.
They really really knows, like everything's oh, that's anxietyor this
depression or this and that, you know, but everybody mentions
mental health, but nobody wants to talk about mental health.
That's the part that I just don't get. It's so
frustrating because it's like these school shootings, oh well, there's
mental health issues in there. And then all they do
is they go, okay, rug, we're gonna toss it in
on the rug and to do it. The later it's like,
but what are we going to do with these problems?
(22:36):
We're not talking about them enough. Clearly, if these people
are having these issues and these things are happening, so
what are we doing to solve the problem? Nothing? We
avoid them. We go okay, well never mind, because it's
such an uncomfortable conversation when it comes to those kinds
of things, because people are like, oh, well, you know,
they have a mental list issue. And then it's then
you start treating them differently, like they're they're like an
alien or something from another planet or something, and it's
(22:57):
not like that, you know, And especially with suicidal too,
just touching back on that a little bit. When people
find out somebody has tried to commit suicide, you know,
the weird thing is that people start acting differently around
like always I want to say something I've saidhim because
they're really sensitive. No, stop stop doing that. Stop stop
doing that shit to people, because it's so it's so
rude to do that to somebody. Plus you're making them
feel different when they're not different. Everybody has thoughts like
(23:20):
what is the recent guy that worked on the Ellen
Show that we lost. Unfortunately had all this money everything else,
you know, but at the end of the day, he
still had problems in the vaccine that no one knew
about it. Unfortunately, he committed suicide, you know, and when
he did so it's like, okay, well, this proves the
point that just no matter who you are, fame, fortune, rich, poor,
you can have these kind of problems. Everybody has these issues.
(23:40):
So when are we going to start solving the problem,
Because you know, we see too many men dying too
for mental If you think about the percentage, what is
it eighty percent of been suicides are all men. It's like, okay,
so when are we going to stop being stop do
stop leting this happen and talk about it eventually, you know.
And it's it's the craziest part. It's like we know
these statistics, we see the tatistics getting worse, but we
don't do anything about the problem. We just like to
(24:01):
talk about them for a brief second and then we
disappear from them. Oh well, you know these men's Mountal
Health Month, and then all those videos started floating out
about oh, it's not that important. I think the reason
that there's a whole month is because eighty percent of
them are dying by suicide, Like like, hello, red flag,
how much more of this does he want it to
be serious? Of one hundred, that's eighty percent. Like if
you think whether it's a group of five people, majority
(24:22):
of those people are going to be here because half
of those dudes killed themselves from the health or even more.
And it's just like like what are we doing about
this problem? Nothing? It's like we all want to talk
about it. It's a hot button issue for the month that
it comes, and then it's all of a suddenybody wants
to silence it after that, Okay, well it's nothing else.
Well that's great because people like me who deal with
these problems every day, we still have these issues after
all these months, and we still battle these problems, you know,
(24:42):
and anybody with like PTSD, you know, these other things,
you know, all have these problems continuously. And then it's like,
you know, it's all great, let's highlight for this month,
and then all of a sudden, it just dies out,
like it's a conversation ended somewhere, like it's okay, we're
past this month or we're done talking about it, but
we're not. It's still going on an issue. It's clearly
an that needs to be dissolved because we're having too
many people getting lost, and the percentages of numbers don't lie.
(25:04):
I really likes numbers. Well, here's your numbers for you.
These many people are dying. It's like, hello, what more
do you want us to do?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, it's true. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
The interesting thing about it, Pete, is that when as
a mental health therapist, as the licensed professional counselor or
social worker, when we are trained and we work with
people that have suicidal thoughts, we don't say to them, oh, well,
how are you doing today, and not even talk about
the suicidal thoughts. We literally ask them specifically about the
(25:32):
suicidal thoughts and the suicidal questions and concerns and their plans,
and we literally go right to that and actually discuss
that with them. So, like you were saying before that,
a lot of people when they hear somebody suicidal, they're like, oh, well,
I'm not going to talk to them about anything that
has to do with that because that might make them
want to kill themselves. Well, if they're wanting to kill themselves,
(25:54):
they're going to want to kill themselves whether you tell
them or not. They probably already have the idea in
their mind, you know, of how they might want to
do it. So it's more about bringing it into awareness
and bringing it to the light so that it can
be dispelled, you know, and it can be worked through,
rather than hiding it in a corner like you said, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
No, I agree. I feel like when it comes to
social media, to TikTok is really bad about this. And
this is why I say this now, because you can't
mention the word suicide you'll get banned. You can't say
anything about it. You'll get banned. And it's like, what
you why stop? This is an adult app this is
an adult conversation. Why are you censoring something that is
such a big problem that we need to talk about
(26:35):
just because you're going to, Like you just stated, just
because you're talking about it, doesn't mean that person isn't
still going to do it. If they've already got that
thought in their mind, like you were saying, you know
it's going to happen. They don't care what you're saying
to them. Nothing you're saying is going to trigger them.
You mean further, they've already got the plan in place.
And there was a video I watched this morning when
I was on Instagram. It was these two guys. Okay,
set up to the two guys are in this scenario. They're
at a soccer game. Guys sitting there, lay on the
(26:57):
left as one looks pretty anxious, like something's wrong with
the guy, and the right is the one that's super happy. Okay.
So the end of the video, what your thought is
right now is you're thinking the guy on the left
is the one that's gonna kill himself. Okay, you think
this guy is the one's going to do the suicide act. No, No,
the guy and the right, the one that's all up cheering,
sided watching the game everything is the one, unfortunately, who
takes his own life, you know. And it was a
good representation of no matter what how happy someone seems,
(27:20):
you don't know if that's what their thought process is.
You don't, like, we don't know what people are thinking
half the time, you know, and unfortunately that's the scary
part about it, you know. And then everybody trying to
silence it. I don't know why. It's like it's suicide
Awareness Month for September, and then you know, it's like
some of these steps are like, oh, we don't want
to talk about it, but why why don't you want
to talk about an adult conversation? Like there's no kids
just should be allowed in this app Maybe you should
(27:42):
police it better if you feel it that way, but
you need to talk about these things. That's how we
bring more awareness to these things, you know. And asking
them if they're going to commit suicide is another good
one too, is what I learned from somebody else. It's
like just ask them, like you're not going to do
any harm asking somebody they said, hey, are you planning
committing suicide? Like, if you're worried, just ask them, Like,
don't be afraid to ask that question to somebody, body, Like,
you know, I think that you know, a lot of
(28:02):
people start getting real nervous and start worrying about what
other people are thinking. And instead of just asking like, hey, listen,
are you okay? Are you doing all right? Are you good?
You know, and things like that, and they look at
youself them, kay, now are you really okay? Because I'm
asking you because you have me worried, you know, just
tell them your concerns. Let them know, Hey, listen, I'm worried.
I don't know, you seem like a little off. Is
there's something wrong, you know, and you know, just just
have a real conversation. But like Karen said, listen to
(28:24):
them like like listen like fully engage what they're saying
and listen. Be prepared to listen. Don't do anything else distracting.
Stop whatever you're doing if you're gonna ask them these
questions and actually listen to them, because they're going to
notice if you're not taking one hundred percent of your
time to listen. If you ask them and they start
telling you. They're gonna start telling you what you want
to hear, well, no, I'm just fine or whatever, and
because they'll notice if you're not listening to them. And
(28:45):
I think that's the biggest thing is like you know,
people hear that conversation or hear those words the instantly
going to a panic mode. Oh god, oh god. You know,
it's like, what are you panicing about? They're coming you,
talking to you. In fact, it's better that they're talking
to you about it right now versus not seeing anything
and then unfortunately taking their life and that then you're going, well,
I wonder what they were thinking the whole time.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
They A lot of times people that are suicidal are
very isolated. And so just like you said, Pete, you know,
if you reach out to them, if you talk to them,
if you say hey, how are you doing, and you know,
continue persist. You know, if they say oh, I'm a fine,
well yeah, like you just said, say well you don't
look fine to me.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You know, you look upset, you know, or are exactly
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, just really being present with them and persisting in
showing that you care for them.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think, you know, in my situation,
I was very isolated when my issue came up, when
almost almost at my own life it was like that too.
I was very isolated, but people didn't know because I
was going through a lot. Of the time, me and
my actually split up. I was living in a hotel,
you know, and I lived like right down the street
from where I worked, so she stole my car and
everything else. I was walking to work everything like that,
but no one knew after I clocked out and went home,
(29:55):
the eternal struggles I had because I was alone all
the time, Like when I wasn't there working, I was
by myself ninety percent of the time, you know, and
things like that too, you know. And it's just it's
horrible though, because like you're alone, your thoughts are racing,
not to mention that anxiety's there, my depressions there, so
all these other factors are playing on me. And then
you know, I wasn't sleeping much. I'm trying to sleep
(30:15):
and that's hard too sometimes because my thoughts start racing
in my head, you know, And it's like all these
other factors started contributing into what it is, you know,
and people are so so far removed from what mental
health is too. I just think a lot of people
or their advice are a lot of things. Is what
is it doing when you're depressed? It's, oh, we just
got to cheer up. When you have anxiety and you're
having one of those moments where you're freaking out, it's, oh,
(30:35):
you just need to calm down. And I wish it
was so easy to do that. You know, we said
that lights which you know, just turn it off and
let it go. It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately,
you know, and Karen can tell you one underdercent that
that's the case. You're telling somebody to calm down. I'm
not even hearing you at that point. I'm I'm in
a full freak out mode. I'm not listening to the
single words you're saying. I can't even I'm not even
listening to what you're telling me. I am in that
PROVII fixate on whatever set me off that I'm freaking
(30:57):
out about. I have that tunnel vision, so whatever. You
could be saying something, but you're like, I'm muppet over
there making a weird sound, or like what is it
more like the Charlie Brown commerce teachers from Charlie Brown.
It's all I'm here and I'm not hearing what you're saying.
I hear nothing that you're saying at any point in
this conversation, you know. And it's it's great that you know,
all these places when they say, oh, well, hey, yay
Mental Awareness Month, you know, and it's it's sad because,
(31:19):
like you see how little effort people put into it.
But you know, we deal with all these other things,
like people being burnt out, and then that plays in
that factor. You know, if you're already stressed out, you're
burnt out, You're you're dealing depression, anxiety, you got a
lot of things going on at home. Everybody's like, go
leave it at the door. It's hard to leave it
at the door in that scenario for you when you've
got all these things surmountedly building up, you know. And
I remember my first experience with somebody with borderline personality
(31:41):
disorder was interesting because I started noticing little weird things
they would do, and like, I just asked questions about it,
and I was just curious. It's like, hey, so why
are you doing this? You know, And she just looks
at me and she just says, oh, yeah, nothing, and
then she eventually told me that's what it was that
she had, so I got interested in looking into it.
So I looked into that too, and that was so
interesting to see that a lot of times that you
have that and bipolar kind of line up a little bit.
(32:02):
But then a lot of times people are misdiagnosed, so
they say, oh, you're one and you're not the other,
when it really could be the reverse opposite of that too,
and things like that too, And I think since doing
the show, the other interesting case I had was somebody
has multiple personality disorder, which I know is the ID now,
but it was interesting to see because if you watch
her in the interview, she's talking, and if you watch
close you can see the little tics that she does.
(32:24):
It changes up a little bit, and then really that's
what it is. I think people hear multipersonality sort They're like, oh,
it's somebody with twenty different names. I'm like, not always no, no,
hold up, not always the same case. And I know
it's hard to diagnose it too at the same time
as then right.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah it is, and there are there are specific doctors
or psychologists who are trained to specifically diagnose, so you
know a lot of times, like where I work, we'll
restore people out when we want a specific diagnosis and
we want to rule out something. So if somebody might
be you know, a questionable between like you said, bipolar
(33:01):
or having borderline, we might refer them to a psychologist
to have them do a definitive diagnosis. And you know,
that psychologist is trained to look at all the avenues
at their life and really determine what their diagnosis technically is.
And I think a point of what you were saying
before though, was just that, Yeah, when somebody says to
(33:24):
you up or calm down, I think like for me,
a lot of times it would just make me angry,
you know, rather than wanting to cheer up, it would
make me more more depressed or more angry than I was,
you know. Or calm down it gets you more elevated.
So sometimes it's you know, again being there for the
person and saying, hey, you know, how can I help
you through this? You know, what can I do to
(33:46):
help you get past this moment? You know, or to
work with a trained counselor who can teach you the
techniques of what to do so that the person who
is suffering through it can better regulate themselves.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, all great point too. I really agree. I
do agree to get irritation more. And people tell me
to calm down. It's like, and it's in any setting,
like they're telling you, well, you need to calm down,
my boy. Let me tell you. Haven't seen calm yet.
I've yet to get upset, you know, And I don't
think it helps either, you know. And then you also
have is all the misinformation floating around in the internet.
Like you know, the internet's great, but at the same time,
(34:20):
it could be very detrimental because people start looking up
and getting wrong information, and these people starts Everybody has
advice these days. You know, everybody's their very own you know,
ask jeeves, as I'd like to say, for anybody will
not remember ask jeeves. You know, you got your own
jeeves at hand here that are just giving out advice
and none of them have any idea what they're talking about.
You know, Hey, do this that I could solve your
(34:40):
problem in a day? Well, you know, that's great, but
I really don't think that's possible. But okay, sure, whatever
you say, you know, and all the other things like that,
and it's just it's just aggravating when you see it though, too,
like the lack of empathy people have for other people
with these issues. Are always like, oh, you're overreacting, or
you're or you're crazy or looking. You know a lot
of ladies they're always crazy. I'm like, but are they
(35:01):
crazy though? I mean, think about it, you know, could
it be that, or could it be there's something, you know,
something else they deal with, because you don't know what
people are dealing with, Like you can't look at people
and go, Okay, well I know they're this, this and
that about them, and it's like, well, does it works
like that guys? Unfortunately in gals it just yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And the thing is that these names are so commonplace
now that people are very quick to label somebody, whether
they've been trained to put a diagnosis with somebody or not.
So it's like, oh, well, that person has borderline or
that person multiple personality, you know, or that person has
bipolar you know. And it's not even a matter of
(35:40):
saying that they have the disorder. It's saying they are
the disorder, which is not accurate either. It's just like
with heart disease, you have heart disease. Well, with anxiety,
you're not anxiety. You have anxiety. You're not you don't
You're not borderline personality. You have borderline personality.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So it's a different in there.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It's like a perspeptive shift that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
You have really great points there, exactly. I think that's
great because there was a girl that was on the show.
She had actually made a comment and okay, so Whitney
was the young lady that I met. She came on
and she made probably the most powerful statement I've ever
heard from last year when on this show she said
literally said that my name is Whitney. I deal with
and then listed off the issues she dealt with. She said,
(36:26):
these do not identify me as a person, just like
what you said. I think it's so powerful for people
to understand it. They take that diagnosis and they run
with it and go, oh, well no I am well,
I'm oh, I'm manning, and then they just play off
and it's like, just because you have these things doesn't
mean that's you. That's not you, Karen me Peter as
a person. That's just something you're dealing with and these
are things that you deal with on a daily basis,
(36:48):
and people like yourself are trained to help us deal
with these problems and sometimes make it manageable, so it's
not so so much of a problem that it affects
our a day to day life, you know. And I
think people need to understand that's when they go to
their it doesn't make you crazy. A lot of people
see therapists that you don't even know of, you know,
that don't want to tell you about it, you know,
just because it's a personal thing. A lot of times
people don't want people know they're talking to somebody help
(37:09):
them figure out their thoughts in their heads, you know.
And it's great because I talk to a guy and
I asked them and I said, so, what's your fear
about therapy? It's like, well, I think I'm crazy. I said,
why do you feel like you're crazy? He goes, well,
you know, if I tell somebody like you don't have
to tell anybody to go to therapy. You can go
to therapy and talk to somebody for your own self.
And you want to get yourself in a better headspace,
or you feel like you have these things where you
think somebody can help you. Why I limit yourself because
(37:31):
what everybody else is saying, and I think it's that
whole foe, that that fear of people knowing you're going
kind of thing too, And it's like we need to
stop that too. It's like, if somebody's in therapy, you know,
do not judge them for that. Like obviously you don't
know what they deal with on a daily basis. We
don't know if maybe have a diagnosis, you know, maybe
just to have trouble figuring out their own thoughts, you know,
(37:52):
or something that happened when they were a kid. We
don't know, you know, just just don't make them feel
like a different person or make them feel like they're
crazy or any other stereotypes that people come up with,
because you know, it's it's nothing wrong with that. It's
okay to talk to people. Feel like, Karen, here are
here to help you with these things. That's what they're
trained for. If there wasn't any for them, they sures
heck wouldn't be here. So she's not just hanging out
for her own good time, you know, So you know
(38:15):
things like that too. The thing is that with that
being said, Karen, we're gonna, oh, no, go ahead, Sarah, Karen,
I'm sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
My bad with what you just said that with therapy,
you know, it doesn't have to be that somebody is
suffering from anxiety or depression or another mental illness. Therapy
could be just a sounding board for you. So I
you know, I have some clients that they're coming because
they're going through a divorce and they want to talk
(38:43):
about what's going on in their relationship. So it could
be help with relationship. And so again there is that
stigma still and it's getting better, but we need to
continue to work on that stigma.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, it's definitely I agree. I agree one hundred percent.
So cam R had the fun part of the show.
And if you've ever seen one of my episodes before
where I asked my quest two important questions. Okay, so
the first one is actually created to a good friend
of mine. She runs a podcast called The Shit that
Goes on her Heads. Okay, so when we interviewed, she
asked this question. I've stole and I'm running with it now.
You know, it's basically this, Karen, if your mental health
(39:17):
had a song, what would that song be?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I would probably have to say it's like, oh no,
this is not good, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh,
help me somebody, listen to me. Listen to me now
as I tell you the story that is going.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
On side Matt, I love it. I absolutely love It's great,
all right. And So the second question I asked, and
the whole reason I started this podcast, is if you
could break the stigma about mental health. I'm talking about
like the thing that you see every day on a
daily bas that you see and you just called, could
y'all just please stop? What would that be?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I really think it goes back to that idea of
labeling somebody as crazy. You know, people that have mental
health struggles mental illness are not crazy. They might do
things that appear to be crazy like, but it off
is because they aren't unbalanced and they need to get balanced.
So sometimes that has to do with the medication. Sometimes
(40:07):
that has to do with therapy. Sometimes that has to
do with both combination. I personally believe in the combination.
I don't think anybody who's taking medication should only take medication.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I think they should also get therapy.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
And so it's really that, I mean, it's you know,
it's really hard for somebody to be called crazy, and
you know, person going through mental health struggles often will
label themselves crazy and so to have somebody else tell them,
well you are crazy, you know, it just makes it
so much worse and just deplete their self esteem.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I think it's all great points. Karen, thank you
so much for being here. Would you like to plug
exact where people can find you? Guys? And before Karen
sells you define her. I will have her book listed
down below with the Amazon link on how to find it,
and I will have her can I'm gonna put her
cancer book down there, the birst Cancer Book down there
too as well that in case sboy El's listening wild
like to check that one out too, You definitely can
find it. So, Karen, where can everybody find you at?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah? So my handle on most platforms is Karen e Iverson,
So it's k A R E N E I V
E R s O N. And you can find my
books on Amazon. Again, if you just type in Karen
Iverson you can find them. They will come up and
they are called Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Empowering Warriors
(41:21):
and Guiding loved Ones, Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Companion
Journal Empowering and Guiding Breast Cancer Warriors, and the most
recent one is Winning the mental health battle from struggling
to thriving. Seven tips to navigate anxiety, depression, and mania.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And with that being said, guys are gonna wrap up
this episode of Pete for Anxiety. You guys don't rEFInd
me on Pete for Society and X all the way
down to TikTok, I'm on Spotify, all the way down
to iHeartRadio and it's you always say it costs nothing
absolute to kind of somebody. One kind act you could
do could save sobside for hell, you can make their
day on Pete for as Anxiety, signing off saying don't
ask how you days? They say, hey, how's your mental
health today? That's the got my secrety.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Of my work.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I would the guy then let them weren't the mark,
but don't have to earn but that don't think that
wouldn't my
Welcome into our exciting upsiddle Pete for Society, My guest
today is the author of the book Winning the Mental
Health Battle From Struggles to Thriving Seven Tips to navigate anxiety,
depression and menia. Please welcome in the One the Only
Karen iverson. Karen, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Saying well, thank you so much, Pete, thank you so
much for having me on, So.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Welcome for being here, Kar do mean a fair Go
ahead and tell me a little more about yourself. Let
him know a little bit about your background everything else
so they get a little more feel for you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Sure. So. I actually hold two master's degrees.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
One is in education and the other is in clinical
mental health counseling.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I've written three books.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Two books are about breast cancer and one book, as
you mentioned, Pete, is about mental health. And all of
my books basically tell a story of what I've experienced
in my life and offer tips sections that I've learned
through going through my own life and going through counseling,
as well as through becoming a licensed professional counselor.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I'm also a public speaker.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I speak on various events, and I'm an artist as well.
I've been a professional actress as well as I'm singing,
and I do fine art work as well, and.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We do like everything. Jeez, it's just cover everything on
that list time You're just like, here you go, what's
the next time I listening to do? I do know
that you know mentioned you were in a Beautiful Mind
and then a Law and Order right when in Law
and Orders?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, so I was in a Beautiful Mind. And that's
a whole big story.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And basically I was doing some acting at the time,
and I was actually on tour with a company and
I had gone to an audition in New York City
in the Lamb Theater and the casting director, Bill Dance
was there, and he told the whole story of what
A Beautiful Mind was about, and how Russell Crowe was
going to be the main character in Jennifer Connelly's and
(02:04):
what Russell Crowe went through, you know, in his mental
health struggles, and I so wanted to be in the movie.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, he called me.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
He called everybody up to the front of the auditorium
one by one or in cares or groups, and I
was one of the last people left in the auditorium
and he calls me up with another girl and He
gets to me at the front and looks at me
straight in the face and he says, you look like
you spent the morning in the bathroom. And I just
(02:34):
looked at him and I reflected for a minute, you know,
taken aback, And then I was like.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, I didn't, honest, I didn't. And he looks at
me again.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
He goes, okay, you you and you go get your
pictures taken together.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So we went to the back and they shook our photographs.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And then I hadn't heard anything, and all of a sudden,
one day, I'm on the weekend away from the acting
I was doing, and I get a call directly from
bill Dance and he's says, Karen, we want to put
you in the movie. He goes, I want you to
be this character in the movie where if you're familiar
with the movie, there are a couple of Billiard scenes
where they're playing pool and I was supposed to be
(03:10):
one of the three girls in one of those scenes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And I said to him when is it. When are
you filming?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And he told me this is these are the dates
and I said, well, I have a conflict with that
date because I have another show with the company. That
I've been on tour with, and I say, can I
please call you back?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And so he's like okay.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So he gets off the phone, and I rushed and
Russian Russian and called a couple of friends and got
some advice from people and really thought it over and
trayed about it and decided that I just couldn't say
yes to him. So I called him back and Bill
gets on the phone and he says, Okay, well, what
is your decision?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And I'm like, I can't do it.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I said, I have a tour with another company that
I'm already committed to and I can't say no to that.
And he goes to me, he goes, well, you're going
to get your SAG card and I'm like, I am
understand that, but I just can't do it. And so
what happened was I then was told by all these people, well,
they're never going to put you in the movie. And
I had told him, please keep me in the movie anyway,
(04:11):
and a couple months later they did call me and
they did still put.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Me in the movie.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I just wasn't that main character that I was originally
supposed to be, but I was just so honored to
still be in the movie.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, that's so cool though, I mean, you could say
you in a motion picture. I mean, how many people
say that, especially when Russell Crowe? Did you get to
meet him by chance?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I didn't meet him personally, but I walked right by
him in one of the scenes, so we looked at
each other and we were right next to each other.
And the other thing which was really cool for me
was that I was on a similar situation with Ron
Howard because he's the director of the movie. And so
Ron Howard and I were walking down hallway opposite directions,
(04:49):
and we literally went right past each other and locked
eyes on each other as we walked by. So I
was like, that was really amazing to just have that
interaction with Ron Howard.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, my cat, that'd been awesome like that, that's in
the brag about there for sure. That's so cool, though
it's I don't know what I would have gone fanger, Honestly.
I would have been like, I don't know, I don't
know if I would have kept it together, honestly, because
I love Ron hundred films. He does really great and
Russell Crowe is a great actor too, man, And I'm
just like, I saw that too when it's an actor.
I was like, I'm jealous already, okay, And then how
(05:21):
did the law and Order thing come up? Though? That
that's interesting was that during your acting career too, when
you were doing a lot of traveling as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yep, that was when I was living in the New
York City area and I ended up being on a
couple episodes. One episode I recall with when I was
in a courtroom and they were doing a court racine.
And the other one, which I really recall the most,
was I was actually a prisoner and so I was.
They dressed us up in the law in the full
orange jump suits and they had us in a real
(05:50):
prison and it was an episode where all of the
guards were coming in with their big shields and their
swat you know, uniforms, and they were just coming charge,
urging at us, all of us that were the extras
who were the prisoners, and we had to run across
the room.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It was like the cafeteria against the.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wall while all these Sweat Team members came against us.
And I turned around and there was a table in
the way, and I didn't know what to do, so
I literally ran over the table to get to the
wall because I'm like, I got to get.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Out of here fast, you know, in my character and everything.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And the next take they did, they said to me,
don't go over the table this time, so I was like, okay,
So they did it again and I went around the
table this time, And when I actually saw the actual episode,
they used the scene that I went over the table
in the episode.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So it's really I was going to say the same
thing that he used over the table. That had to
be though. I mean, that makes sense. You're you're taking
up and hurry, Chane, jump this table, you know. I
think I think that would have been the better one too. Honeyson,
Glad that's the cut they went with, though.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, And I was, you know, we were in
this actual prison, so we actually went into some of
the cells and it was just an amazing perspective to
see what it's like, you know, and these all you
know silver you know, you know, a stainless steel towilet
and you know bed and small room and wow, this
is you know, a real real wake up call on
(07:11):
what it's like to be in prison.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. All right, so let's get to the
nitty gritty. Let's talk about the book. So how did
you come up with the book? I know you had
the other books, but then I saw a little preview
this because I was watching another interview you did, and
I think it was The Healing Something. I can't remember
the others the podcast to do you apologize because I
did check out ahead of time and I know they
were mentioning it. So how did you come up with
the Winning Battle? I know it is a series of books.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Correct, Yes, so the first two books are Winning the
Breast Cancer Battle and then this new book is Winning
the Mental Heals.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, yeah, there it was.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
There was, yes, and I really yeah. The breast cancer
books came about because I went through breast cancer and
when I was going through breast cancer, I found I
needed to journal, and I'd been a journaler my whole life,
and so so I literally, you know, journaled every single
thing I was going through during the breast cancer battle.
(08:05):
And eventually, years later I realized, you know, that I
was definitely making it into a book, and so I
had taken my journals, which at the time I had
started editing, if you can believe that, So, I mean
I had some sense that I was making a book
at that time. But then in twenty nineteen, I put
together the first book, which was The Breast Cancer Book,
(08:25):
and then I knew that I needed to write a
mental health book about the struggles I've been through in
mental health and help people that have gone through things
like anxiety depression, PTSD mania and really just get that
out there as well so that I can help the
people that are struggling in that vein as well. And
(08:45):
it just took a couple of years before I started
really focusing on that, more so because I wanted to
make sure that the time was right for me to
be publishing it and putting it out there, and also
to let you know, the world continue to progress and
getting away from stigmatisms and you know, really kind of
getting more aware of the different mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah. Yeah, No, this is not the first time that
we've touched breast cancer as a topic on the show. Actually,
I invited another author. She'd wrote a book called The
man Sect to me I've always wanted and she had
a double miss sect to be done, and she came
on and I read the book. It was really good.
I'm not going to lie. I was, like I told
people was reading this book, they catching me weird looks,
but I was just like, you know whatever, I'm going
to read this anyways. I'm enjoying this book. It's interesting
(09:30):
to get tough perspective of what this woman was going
through and the author she was going through her own
accounts of what was going on. So was your first
book kind of like that too, just going through the
thought process of what you were thinking at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So my first book, Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Empowering
Warriors and Guiding loved Ones. That book was based off
of the journals that I had written as I was
going through it. So, as I had mentioned, I was
really journaling all of my experiences, and I wanted to
gain and give the reader the sense of knowing what
(10:04):
it was like to go through breast cancer so they
wouldn't have such a hard experience and such a difficult
experience of not knowing what to expect, or not knowing
how things would go, or not knowing what to ask doctors,
or just being dark and blindsided. And so that's how
(10:24):
I had felt when I went through it, because I
didn't know anybody who had gone through breast cancer, and
the only thing I had known about cancer was that
my father had died when I was ten years old,
you know, of cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So you know, I wanted to shed that light for people.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I've been told by people with other types of
cancers as well that it's very relatable to them too,
because when you go through cancer, you go through a
lot of the same testing and a lot of the
same experiences. Yeah, so you know, I was happy to
hear that that it was helpful to them as well.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That's awesome. I mean, that's really cool that you're sharing
your own personal thoughts from your own journal, because that
was similar to the other book too. She was putting
her own personal like personal stuff in their shoe a
little bit as well too, So that's really interesting. So
then the where the Mental Health Battle. I love it.
I think it's a great idea for a book. I
just think, like when I started this show, I did
find the same thing, and now a lot of people
(11:18):
are talking about it, Like you get these doctors that
are talking about it. But the great thing is that
I'm not a doctor. I'm just an average person. I
have my own mental struggles I deal with personally. But
you know, like creating that space for other people to
talk about it is you know, been so important though,
and then after one year of the show ready I've
done over two in a different interviews. I could just
tell you that it just gets more interesting every time
you hit record, because, like when you talk about each one,
(11:41):
we have to keep in mind that everybody deals with
something different. Though it's not a lot of like the
same thing like a lot for a lot of people
with other things to deal with. You know, you don't
have similar You have similar, but you don't have the
exact same experiences. Now you may, don't get me wrong,
you may some people may have the same thing. But
you know you could probably contest this shoe though that
it's just different for every case, for everybody it deals
with it. Some people have different experiences when it comes
(12:02):
to those kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, there are a lot of different ways anxiety and
depression and PTSD and many I can present in a person.
There are certain characteristics that are stable within the diagnosis
of it. So you know, with anxiety, you might be
easily fatigued, you might have difficulty concentrating, you might be irritable,
(12:28):
you might have restless sleep, and of course you know
a main component is that you worry a lot but
you know, it presents differently for each person because we're
all unique individuals and we all have our own perspectives
on things, and we all have our own life experience,
so that all adds into it as well.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah. No, I agree. And what with depression, I think
it's its needs to be said.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Though.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
There was somebody recently on Instagram. This guy was like
posting this video and he's talking and he's telling people,
well that depression is not is not real. It's more
of a mindset. For anybody that doesn't feel depressions, you
want to give them a little idea of what it's
like with depression. I mean I can give my own account,
but what from yourself, from your research have you found
out about depression?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, depression really has to do with a mindset.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It is a mindset. It's an experience of your mind.
So it's having a really low mood. I mean, you
might be feeling like you're at the bottom and you
just can't crawl out of it, and no matter what
anybody says or anybody does, you just can't get up.
You know, you just might stay in bed and not
want to do anything at all. You can gain weight,
(13:40):
or you can even lose weight. You know, it can
be in this mindset where you are just not able
to make any decisions at all because you're just stuck
and you feel that that loss and that less intense
feeling of interest in anything, so nothing seems to be
interesting to you.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
You just don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And you know it also can affect your sleep. So
as I said, you might be stuck in bed, so
you might be oversleeping, or the opposite, you could be
under sleeping where you just can't sleep at all because
you're so depressed you can't fall asleep, and you just
have thoughts going on in your mind, and of course
a big one is feeling worthless. So just really not
(14:25):
thinking anything about yourself is good, just thinking that you're
not good enough, thinking that that nothing I do could
ever be good, and it becomes this kind of self
fulfilling prophecy in a way that you perpetuate these feelings
because the more we get stuck in that deep dark hole,
the harder it is to get out of that deep
(14:47):
dark hole. And the more we feel like we're worthless,
the more we feel like we're not good enough, and
the more we perpetuate that as well, and then of
course that can also lead to thoughts of suicide and
wanting to kill yourself, thinking that there's no way out,
and so maybe if I kill myself that at least
will stop this misery and this pain of having no
(15:08):
way out. Of course, the thing is that there is
there are ways out, and people do survive depression. Some
people do have long term depression and some people have
a shorter amount of depression. But there is hope.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
You just have to get to the point where you
find that hop Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
No, I agree, I have. I've been designing to press myself,
so I deal with it sometimes so but I want
to correct myself. The Instagram Live and referring to the gentleman,
he said that depression isn't real. I'm sorry, Maybe I
think I'm mistakenly said something different, guys, but it was
that he said that it's not real, it's not a mindset.
He's trying to basically discredit it, which is just the
craziest thing ever. It's like, dude, why are you giving
out this information? Mind you, this guy has no background
(15:48):
in mental health whatsoever. He's just some fitness influencer guy
that's posting things and you know, when he is trying
to basically tell people that, oh, well, it's just you know,
it's all in your head, this and that or something
like that. I didn't see the whole thing. I just
know Sault people talking about it though. But to get
to this, to talk about the Suicidi edition, I think
that's a great point, is that it's not that people
they want to kill themselves, they want to get away
(16:08):
from that pain. I think you made a really good
point with that. I think a lot of people don't
need to realize that when it comes to that is
that if someone were to unfortunately take their own life,
a lot of times it's they want that voice silence,
they want that pain to go away, all these other
kind of things. You know it's in and stop saying
it selfish, guys, whoever's out there telling you it, you
have selfish thoughts, it's not selfish because you know right there,
(16:30):
you're you're already giving it a bad name when you
know it's not the case of the situation. It's not
they're selfish. It's because they wanted something to stop, you know,
that pain, to stop that feeling that they don't feel
useful enough, or they're not worthy or they don't feel seen,
and you know, it's a lot of different factors when
it comes to that kind of stuff. So, you know,
with the subject of Sudi saudidation, Karen, do you have
any tips for anybody that may be worried their friend,
(16:52):
maybe be suicidals or anything they should be kind of
looking out for.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
One of the main things is to talk to them
and to listen to them and really listen to what
they're saying and really try to hear them and relate
back to them, reflect back to them what they're saying.
Offer them your support and your your present neess, you know,
being present with them physically, you know, or and emotionally.
(17:17):
One of the big things with suicide is can you
go one more minute? Can you hold on for one
more minute? Well, one more minute becomes two minutes, and
two minutes can become three minutes, and so it's it's
a matter of helping them get through the worst moment
that they're at so that they can get to the
other side of that worst moment where it's no longer
(17:37):
the worst, so that is that little bit better than
it was. There's there are national safety and mental health lines.
There's nine eight eight.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
You can call.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
You can always dial nine eight eight, or you can
text seven four one, seven four one, either of those
numbers you can text to or call seven four one.
Seven for one is just texting, but nine eight eight
you can call or text nine eight eight and just
you know, really reaching out to that person and supporting them,
being there for them.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think those are all really
great points. Let's talk about mania though. I love how
that's in the title, because I don't think a lot
of people know what a mania is. Like, I know,
people go manic and things like that, So do you
want to give them a little more explanation of what
a mania would fall under? What kind of things have
fall in that category?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, a mania could be anything from a decreased need
for sleep to having an inflated self esteem, you know,
just feeling like you're on top of the wall the world,
like everything is perfect and nothing at all could go
wrong and everything is exactly the way it's supposed to be.
It can be being very talkative, like you're talking really
fast and you just can't stop talking, and you're so
(18:45):
excited and you have pressured speech because you have to
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right now and you have to get it out.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It can be having very goal directed oriented activities, again
with that inflated self esteem that you or on the
line to be the perfect person and your job is
perfect and it's going to be perfect, and you're going
to be successful, and you're going to make a million bucks.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, it's.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Very very large in life. Your life becomes very large,
and then you can also do things that have consequences,
like you could, as I mentioned, think you're making a
million bucks, so you spend a million bucks even though
you might not have it. Or you might go out
and sleep with a lot of people and have sex
(19:30):
with a lot of people because you're you're feeling that
that's the right thing to do and that that's good
and you're feeling sensual. So it's a lot of those
type of things.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think a lot of people realize
that though when it comes to me, I know that
you know, somebody to hear it, but that's all they see.
A lot of people can experience somebody with menia, you know,
And I think that's one of the biggest problems too,
is a lot of people will see that and then
they won't know what the it is and identify what
it is, and they'll go, oh, well, they're just crazy,
when it couldn't be possibly, couldn't be that. It could
just be maybe they're going throumaic moment or something like that,
(20:01):
you know, or you know, any of those other things
that fall in that category though, and it's I think
it's the biggest misconception is that people, you know, when
we don't know something, we'd like to argue and say, oh, no,
they're crazy. And we got to stop doing that. We
got to stop labeling everybody is crazy because not everybody's crazy.
Sometimes it's just they deal with something that causes them
to be that way, you know, and stop like, you know,
being so dismissive, maybe learn some more about what it
(20:24):
is so we better understand what we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Definitely, because somebody who has mania is not crazy, they
might at times give the perception that they're being crazy.
Usually that's because they are not in balance. So when
you look at mental health, there is a line. So
if you have a balance line and everybody has ups
and everybody has lows, but that curve with somebody who's
(20:50):
going through mania is more severe. That curve with somebody
that's going through depression is more severe.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
So with the.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Mania that that up goes far they're up, and with
depression that down goes farther down. So it's just a
little bit of an offshoot of what quote unquote is normal.
I really don't like the term normal because I don't
think there is a normal. Everybody is their own unique
individual and everybody has their own mental status and stability,
(21:21):
you know. So yes, it's it's a matter of saying, well,
you know, what if if this person is normal and
that person is crazy, Well, what are this normal person
compared to some other person? So, you know, I think
you're right, I think we need to stop things.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
A good question there, though, What is normality?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, And I think normality is relative to us as
an individual, you know, what is our normal status quot
what is our normal you know, normal flora as opposed
to when we're out of balance?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a great point. I think
it's all a really great point though, you know, because
I think that you know, that's that's just something we
got to quit. And I think that, you know, with
this show, that's the goal is to educate more people
on mental health. Inviting people such as yourselves and other
people come on to talk about these things so we
can make the conversation louder, you know, and people can
understand that these are things that people deal with, you know,
(22:15):
and it's other than just anxiety, depression, all the things.
They really really knows, like everything's oh, that's anxietyor this
depression or this and that, you know, but everybody mentions
mental health, but nobody wants to talk about mental health.
That's the part that I just don't get. It's so
frustrating because it's like these school shootings, oh well, there's
mental health issues in there. And then all they do
is they go, okay, rug, we're gonna toss it in
on the rug and to do it. The later it's like,
but what are we going to do with these problems?
(22:36):
We're not talking about them enough. Clearly, if these people
are having these issues and these things are happening, so
what are we doing to solve the problem? Nothing? We
avoid them. We go okay, well never mind, because it's
such an uncomfortable conversation when it comes to those kinds
of things, because people are like, oh, well, you know,
they have a mental list issue. And then it's then
you start treating them differently, like they're they're like an
alien or something from another planet or something, and it's
(22:57):
not like that, you know, And especially with suicidal too,
just touching back on that a little bit. When people
find out somebody has tried to commit suicide, you know,
the weird thing is that people start acting differently around
like always I want to say something I've saidhim because
they're really sensitive. No, stop stop doing that. Stop stop
doing that shit to people, because it's so it's so
rude to do that to somebody. Plus you're making them
feel different when they're not different. Everybody has thoughts like
(23:20):
what is the recent guy that worked on the Ellen
Show that we lost. Unfortunately had all this money everything else,
you know, but at the end of the day, he
still had problems in the vaccine that no one knew
about it. Unfortunately, he committed suicide, you know, and when
he did so it's like, okay, well, this proves the
point that just no matter who you are, fame, fortune, rich, poor,
you can have these kind of problems. Everybody has these issues.
(23:40):
So when are we going to start solving the problem,
Because you know, we see too many men dying too
for mental If you think about the percentage, what is
it eighty percent of been suicides are all men. It's like, okay,
so when are we going to stop being stop do
stop leting this happen and talk about it eventually, you know.
And it's it's the craziest part. It's like we know
these statistics, we see the tatistics getting worse, but we
don't do anything about the problem. We just like to
(24:01):
talk about them for a brief second and then we
disappear from them. Oh well, you know these men's Mountal
Health Month, and then all those videos started floating out
about oh, it's not that important. I think the reason
that there's a whole month is because eighty percent of
them are dying by suicide, Like like, hello, red flag,
how much more of this does he want it to
be serious? Of one hundred, that's eighty percent. Like if
you think whether it's a group of five people, majority
(24:22):
of those people are going to be here because half
of those dudes killed themselves from the health or even more.
And it's just like like what are we doing about
this problem? Nothing? It's like we all want to talk
about it. It's a hot button issue for the month that
it comes, and then it's all of a suddenybody wants
to silence it after that, Okay, well it's nothing else.
Well that's great because people like me who deal with
these problems every day, we still have these issues after
all these months, and we still battle these problems, you know,
(24:42):
and anybody with like PTSD, you know, these other things,
you know, all have these problems continuously. And then it's like,
you know, it's all great, let's highlight for this month,
and then all of a sudden, it just dies out,
like it's a conversation ended somewhere, like it's okay, we're
past this month or we're done talking about it, but
we're not. It's still going on an issue. It's clearly
an that needs to be dissolved because we're having too
many people getting lost, and the percentages of numbers don't lie.
(25:04):
I really likes numbers. Well, here's your numbers for you.
These many people are dying. It's like, hello, what more
do you want us to do?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, it's true. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
The interesting thing about it, Pete, is that when as
a mental health therapist, as the licensed professional counselor or
social worker, when we are trained and we work with
people that have suicidal thoughts, we don't say to them, oh, well,
how are you doing today, and not even talk about
the suicidal thoughts. We literally ask them specifically about the
(25:32):
suicidal thoughts and the suicidal questions and concerns and their plans,
and we literally go right to that and actually discuss
that with them. So, like you were saying before that,
a lot of people when they hear somebody suicidal, they're like, oh, well,
I'm not going to talk to them about anything that
has to do with that because that might make them
want to kill themselves. Well, if they're wanting to kill themselves,
(25:54):
they're going to want to kill themselves whether you tell
them or not. They probably already have the idea in
their mind, you know, of how they might want to
do it. So it's more about bringing it into awareness
and bringing it to the light so that it can
be dispelled, you know, and it can be worked through,
rather than hiding it in a corner like you said, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
No, I agree. I feel like when it comes to
social media, to TikTok is really bad about this. And
this is why I say this now, because you can't
mention the word suicide you'll get banned. You can't say
anything about it. You'll get banned. And it's like, what
you why stop? This is an adult app this is
an adult conversation. Why are you censoring something that is
such a big problem that we need to talk about
(26:35):
just because you're going to, Like you just stated, just
because you're talking about it, doesn't mean that person isn't
still going to do it. If they've already got that
thought in their mind, like you were saying, you know
it's going to happen. They don't care what you're saying
to them. Nothing you're saying is going to trigger them.
You mean further, they've already got the plan in place.
And there was a video I watched this morning when
I was on Instagram. It was these two guys. Okay,
set up to the two guys are in this scenario. They're
at a soccer game. Guys sitting there, lay on the
(26:57):
left as one looks pretty anxious, like something's wrong with
the guy, and the right is the one that's super happy. Okay.
So the end of the video, what your thought is
right now is you're thinking the guy on the left
is the one that's gonna kill himself. Okay, you think
this guy is the one's going to do the suicide act. No, No,
the guy and the right, the one that's all up cheering,
sided watching the game everything is the one, unfortunately, who
takes his own life, you know. And it was a
good representation of no matter what how happy someone seems,
(27:20):
you don't know if that's what their thought process is.
You don't, like, we don't know what people are thinking
half the time, you know, and unfortunately that's the scary
part about it, you know. And then everybody trying to
silence it. I don't know why. It's like it's suicide
Awareness Month for September, and then you know, it's like
some of these steps are like, oh, we don't want
to talk about it, but why why don't you want
to talk about an adult conversation? Like there's no kids
just should be allowed in this app Maybe you should
(27:42):
police it better if you feel it that way, but
you need to talk about these things. That's how we
bring more awareness to these things, you know. And asking
them if they're going to commit suicide is another good
one too, is what I learned from somebody else. It's
like just ask them, like you're not going to do
any harm asking somebody they said, hey, are you planning
committing suicide? Like, if you're worried, just ask them, Like,
don't be afraid to ask that question to somebody, body, Like,
you know, I think that you know, a lot of
(28:02):
people start getting real nervous and start worrying about what
other people are thinking. And instead of just asking like, hey, listen,
are you okay? Are you doing all right? Are you good?
You know, and things like that, and they look at
youself them, kay, now are you really okay? Because I'm
asking you because you have me worried, you know, just
tell them your concerns. Let them know, Hey, listen, I'm worried.
I don't know, you seem like a little off. Is
there's something wrong, you know, and you know, just just
have a real conversation. But like Karen said, listen to
(28:24):
them like like listen like fully engage what they're saying
and listen. Be prepared to listen. Don't do anything else distracting.
Stop whatever you're doing if you're gonna ask them these
questions and actually listen to them, because they're going to
notice if you're not taking one hundred percent of your
time to listen. If you ask them and they start
telling you. They're gonna start telling you what you want
to hear, well, no, I'm just fine or whatever, and
because they'll notice if you're not listening to them. And
(28:45):
I think that's the biggest thing is like you know,
people hear that conversation or hear those words the instantly
going to a panic mode. Oh god, oh god. You know,
it's like, what are you panicing about? They're coming you,
talking to you. In fact, it's better that they're talking
to you about it right now versus not seeing anything
and then unfortunately taking their life and that then you're going, well,
I wonder what they were thinking the whole time.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
They A lot of times people that are suicidal are
very isolated. And so just like you said, Pete, you know,
if you reach out to them, if you talk to them,
if you say hey, how are you doing, and you know,
continue persist. You know, if they say oh, I'm a fine,
well yeah, like you just said, say well you don't
look fine to me.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You know, you look upset, you know, or are exactly
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah, just really being present with them and persisting in
showing that you care for them.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think, you know, in my situation,
I was very isolated when my issue came up, when
almost almost at my own life it was like that too.
I was very isolated, but people didn't know because I
was going through a lot. Of the time, me and
my actually split up. I was living in a hotel,
you know, and I lived like right down the street
from where I worked, so she stole my car and
everything else. I was walking to work everything like that,
but no one knew after I clocked out and went home,
(29:55):
the eternal struggles I had because I was alone all
the time, Like when I wasn't there working, I was
by myself ninety percent of the time, you know, and
things like that too, you know. And it's just it's
horrible though, because like you're alone, your thoughts are racing,
not to mention that anxiety's there, my depressions there, so
all these other factors are playing on me. And then
you know, I wasn't sleeping much. I'm trying to sleep
(30:15):
and that's hard too sometimes because my thoughts start racing
in my head, you know, And it's like all these
other factors started contributing into what it is, you know,
and people are so so far removed from what mental
health is too. I just think a lot of people
or their advice are a lot of things. Is what
is it doing when you're depressed? It's, oh, we just
got to cheer up. When you have anxiety and you're
having one of those moments where you're freaking out, it's, oh,
(30:35):
you just need to calm down. And I wish it
was so easy to do that. You know, we said
that lights which you know, just turn it off and
let it go. It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately,
you know, and Karen can tell you one underdercent that
that's the case. You're telling somebody to calm down. I'm
not even hearing you at that point. I'm I'm in
a full freak out mode. I'm not listening to the
single words you're saying. I can't even I'm not even
listening to what you're telling me. I am in that
PROVII fixate on whatever set me off that I'm freaking
(30:57):
out about. I have that tunnel vision, so whatever. You
could be saying something, but you're like, I'm muppet over
there making a weird sound, or like what is it
more like the Charlie Brown commerce teachers from Charlie Brown.
It's all I'm here and I'm not hearing what you're saying.
I hear nothing that you're saying at any point in
this conversation, you know. And it's it's great that you know,
all these places when they say, oh, well, hey, yay
Mental Awareness Month, you know, and it's it's sad because,
(31:19):
like you see how little effort people put into it.
But you know, we deal with all these other things,
like people being burnt out, and then that plays in
that factor. You know, if you're already stressed out, you're
burnt out, You're you're dealing depression, anxiety, you got a
lot of things going on at home. Everybody's like, go
leave it at the door. It's hard to leave it
at the door in that scenario for you when you've
got all these things surmountedly building up, you know. And
I remember my first experience with somebody with borderline personality
(31:41):
disorder was interesting because I started noticing little weird things
they would do, and like, I just asked questions about it,
and I was just curious. It's like, hey, so why
are you doing this? You know, And she just looks
at me and she just says, oh, yeah, nothing, and
then she eventually told me that's what it was that
she had, so I got interested in looking into it.
So I looked into that too, and that was so
interesting to see that a lot of times that you
have that and bipolar kind of line up a little bit.
(32:02):
But then a lot of times people are misdiagnosed, so
they say, oh, you're one and you're not the other,
when it really could be the reverse opposite of that too,
and things like that too, And I think since doing
the show, the other interesting case I had was somebody
has multiple personality disorder, which I know is the ID now,
but it was interesting to see because if you watch
her in the interview, she's talking, and if you watch
close you can see the little tics that she does.
(32:24):
It changes up a little bit, and then really that's
what it is. I think people hear multipersonality sort They're like, oh,
it's somebody with twenty different names. I'm like, not always no, no,
hold up, not always the same case. And I know
it's hard to diagnose it too at the same time
as then right.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah it is, and there are there are specific doctors
or psychologists who are trained to specifically diagnose, so you
know a lot of times, like where I work, we'll
restore people out when we want a specific diagnosis and
we want to rule out something. So if somebody might
be you know, a questionable between like you said, bipolar
(33:01):
or having borderline, we might refer them to a psychologist
to have them do a definitive diagnosis. And you know,
that psychologist is trained to look at all the avenues
at their life and really determine what their diagnosis technically is.
And I think a point of what you were saying
before though, was just that, Yeah, when somebody says to
(33:24):
you up or calm down, I think like for me,
a lot of times it would just make me angry,
you know, rather than wanting to cheer up, it would
make me more more depressed or more angry than I was,
you know. Or calm down it gets you more elevated.
So sometimes it's you know, again being there for the
person and saying, hey, you know, how can I help
you through this? You know, what can I do to
(33:46):
help you get past this moment? You know, or to
work with a trained counselor who can teach you the
techniques of what to do so that the person who
is suffering through it can better regulate themselves.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, all great point too. I really agree. I
do agree to get irritation more. And people tell me
to calm down. It's like, and it's in any setting,
like they're telling you, well, you need to calm down,
my boy. Let me tell you. Haven't seen calm yet.
I've yet to get upset, you know, And I don't
think it helps either, you know. And then you also
have is all the misinformation floating around in the internet.
Like you know, the internet's great, but at the same time,
(34:20):
it could be very detrimental because people start looking up
and getting wrong information, and these people starts Everybody has
advice these days. You know, everybody's their very own you know,
ask jeeves, as I'd like to say, for anybody will
not remember ask jeeves. You know, you got your own
jeeves at hand here that are just giving out advice
and none of them have any idea what they're talking about.
You know, Hey, do this that I could solve your
(34:40):
problem in a day? Well, you know, that's great, but
I really don't think that's possible. But okay, sure, whatever
you say, you know, and all the other things like that,
and it's just it's just aggravating when you see it though, too,
like the lack of empathy people have for other people
with these issues. Are always like, oh, you're overreacting, or
you're or you're crazy or looking. You know a lot
of ladies they're always crazy. I'm like, but are they
(35:01):
crazy though? I mean, think about it, you know, could
it be that, or could it be there's something, you know,
something else they deal with, because you don't know what
people are dealing with, Like you can't look at people
and go, Okay, well I know they're this, this and
that about them, and it's like, well, does it works
like that guys? Unfortunately in gals it just yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And the thing is that these names are so commonplace
now that people are very quick to label somebody, whether
they've been trained to put a diagnosis with somebody or not.
So it's like, oh, well, that person has borderline or
that person multiple personality, you know, or that person has
bipolar you know. And it's not even a matter of
(35:40):
saying that they have the disorder. It's saying they are
the disorder, which is not accurate either. It's just like
with heart disease, you have heart disease. Well, with anxiety,
you're not anxiety. You have anxiety. You're not you don't
You're not borderline personality. You have borderline personality.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So it's a different in there.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It's like a perspeptive shift that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
You have really great points there, exactly. I think that's
great because there was a girl that was on the show.
She had actually made a comment and okay, so Whitney
was the young lady that I met. She came on
and she made probably the most powerful statement I've ever
heard from last year when on this show she said
literally said that my name is Whitney. I deal with
and then listed off the issues she dealt with. She said,
(36:26):
these do not identify me as a person, just like
what you said. I think it's so powerful for people
to understand it. They take that diagnosis and they run
with it and go, oh, well no I am well,
I'm oh, I'm manning, and then they just play off
and it's like, just because you have these things doesn't
mean that's you. That's not you, Karen me Peter as
a person. That's just something you're dealing with and these
are things that you deal with on a daily basis,
(36:48):
and people like yourself are trained to help us deal
with these problems and sometimes make it manageable, so it's
not so so much of a problem that it affects
our a day to day life, you know. And I
think people need to understand that's when they go to
their it doesn't make you crazy. A lot of people
see therapists that you don't even know of, you know,
that don't want to tell you about it, you know,
just because it's a personal thing. A lot of times
people don't want people know they're talking to somebody help
(37:09):
them figure out their thoughts in their heads, you know.
And it's great because I talk to a guy and
I asked them and I said, so, what's your fear
about therapy? It's like, well, I think I'm crazy. I said,
why do you feel like you're crazy? He goes, well,
you know, if I tell somebody like you don't have
to tell anybody to go to therapy. You can go
to therapy and talk to somebody for your own self.
And you want to get yourself in a better headspace,
or you feel like you have these things where you
think somebody can help you. Why I limit yourself because
(37:31):
what everybody else is saying, and I think it's that
whole foe, that that fear of people knowing you're going
kind of thing too, And it's like we need to
stop that too. It's like, if somebody's in therapy, you know,
do not judge them for that. Like obviously you don't
know what they deal with on a daily basis. We
don't know if maybe have a diagnosis, you know, maybe
just to have trouble figuring out their own thoughts, you know,
(37:52):
or something that happened when they were a kid. We
don't know, you know, just just don't make them feel
like a different person or make them feel like they're
crazy or any other stereotypes that people come up with,
because you know, it's it's nothing wrong with that. It's
okay to talk to people. Feel like, Karen, here are
here to help you with these things. That's what they're
trained for. If there wasn't any for them, they sures
heck wouldn't be here. So she's not just hanging out
for her own good time, you know, So you know
(38:15):
things like that too. The thing is that with that
being said, Karen, we're gonna, oh, no, go ahead, Sarah, Karen,
I'm sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
My bad with what you just said that with therapy,
you know, it doesn't have to be that somebody is
suffering from anxiety or depression or another mental illness. Therapy
could be just a sounding board for you. So I
you know, I have some clients that they're coming because
they're going through a divorce and they want to talk
(38:43):
about what's going on in their relationship. So it could
be help with relationship. And so again there is that
stigma still and it's getting better, but we need to
continue to work on that stigma.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, it's definitely I agree. I agree one hundred percent.
So cam R had the fun part of the show.
And if you've ever seen one of my episodes before
where I asked my quest two important questions. Okay, so
the first one is actually created to a good friend
of mine. She runs a podcast called The Shit that
Goes on her Heads. Okay, so when we interviewed, she
asked this question. I've stole and I'm running with it now.
You know, it's basically this, Karen, if your mental health
(39:17):
had a song, what would that song be?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I would probably have to say it's like, oh no,
this is not good, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh,
help me somebody, listen to me. Listen to me now
as I tell you the story that is going.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
On side Matt, I love it. I absolutely love It's great,
all right. And So the second question I asked, and
the whole reason I started this podcast, is if you
could break the stigma about mental health. I'm talking about
like the thing that you see every day on a
daily bas that you see and you just called, could
y'all just please stop? What would that be?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
I really think it goes back to that idea of
labeling somebody as crazy. You know, people that have mental
health struggles mental illness are not crazy. They might do
things that appear to be crazy like, but it off
is because they aren't unbalanced and they need to get balanced.
So sometimes that has to do with the medication. Sometimes
(40:07):
that has to do with therapy. Sometimes that has to
do with both combination. I personally believe in the combination.
I don't think anybody who's taking medication should only take medication.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I think they should also get therapy.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
And so it's really that, I mean, it's you know,
it's really hard for somebody to be called crazy, and
you know, person going through mental health struggles often will
label themselves crazy and so to have somebody else tell them,
well you are crazy, you know, it just makes it
so much worse and just deplete their self esteem.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I think it's all great points. Karen, thank you
so much for being here. Would you like to plug
exact where people can find you? Guys? And before Karen
sells you define her. I will have her book listed
down below with the Amazon link on how to find it,
and I will have her can I'm gonna put her
cancer book down there, the birst Cancer Book down there
too as well that in case sboy El's listening wild
like to check that one out too, You definitely can
find it. So, Karen, where can everybody find you at?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah? So my handle on most platforms is Karen e Iverson,
So it's k A R E N E I V
E R s O N. And you can find my
books on Amazon. Again, if you just type in Karen
Iverson you can find them. They will come up and
they are called Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Empowering Warriors
(41:21):
and Guiding loved Ones, Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Companion
Journal Empowering and Guiding Breast Cancer Warriors, and the most
recent one is Winning the mental health battle from struggling
to thriving. Seven tips to navigate anxiety, depression, and mania.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And with that being said, guys are gonna wrap up
this episode of Pete for Anxiety. You guys don't rEFInd
me on Pete for Society and X all the way
down to TikTok, I'm on Spotify, all the way down
to iHeartRadio and it's you always say it costs nothing
absolute to kind of somebody. One kind act you could
do could save sobside for hell, you can make their
day on Pete for as Anxiety, signing off saying don't
ask how you days? They say, hey, how's your mental
health today? That's the got my secrety.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Of my work.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I would the guy then let them weren't the mark,
but don't have to earn but that don't think that
wouldn't my
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.