October 31, 2025 • 39 mins
Summary
In this episode, Pete interviews Grace Ogren, a clinical research specialist with lived experience in mental health challenges. Grace shares her journey through depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation, discussing the importance of support systems and the challenges of seeking help. They explore the impact of isolation on mental health, the experience of ketamine treatment, and the stigma surrounding mental health issues. Grace also offers advice for those struggling with depression and their loved ones, emphasizing the need for understanding and presence. Additionally, she discusses her creative writing journey and the themes of her books.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/pete-vs-anxiety--6084228/support.
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In this episode, Pete interviews Grace Ogren, a clinical research specialist with lived experience in mental health challenges. Grace shares her journey through depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation, discussing the importance of support systems and the challenges of seeking help. They explore the impact of isolation on mental health, the experience of ketamine treatment, and the stigma surrounding mental health issues. Grace also offers advice for those struggling with depression and their loved ones, emphasizing the need for understanding and presence. Additionally, she discusses her creative writing journey and the themes of her books.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/pete-vs-anxiety--6084228/support.
]
JOIN MY TEAM ANXIETY FACEBOOK GROUP!!!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1582057112573164/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT
join the Pete vs Anxiety discord right now:
https://discord.gg/SZN8XptF
ticktock:@petevsanxietypod
instagram:@pete_vs_Annxietypodcast
Want to be a guest on Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!? Send Peter Dalke a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpr...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, Welcome to an exciting episode of Pete for Anxiety.
My guest Today's a clinical research specialist at recovery dot Com.
It's dedicated to advancing research inditiatives and dismissed disseminating crucial
findings in the field of mental health and recovery. Her
work is fueled by personal journey through recovery, which is
profoundly informs her approach to helping others understand and navigate
their paths. These welcome in the Ones and the Only. Grace, Ogan,
(00:42):
how are you doing? Does that say you're lasting right?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Ogrin? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you you don't too much? Grace, Okay, God, anyways, Grace,
how are you doing today? You're doing good, very good. Yeah,
it's finally feeling like fall where I live. That's been nice.
How right you are you in Texas? By Way's probably
where you have it's hot.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And then Madison, Wisconsin it feels.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Like father Okay. Anyways, yeah, well, Grace, won't you tell
about a little more about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm someone who has lived experience with depression
and suicidality and anxiety and some other stuff too, but
I've been able to use it. I would say, in
the current work that I do. So that's been kind
of where it's taken me and just a lot of
stuff by chance to getting this job and then progressing
(01:30):
into using my experience. I'm yeah, someone have lived experience.
Then I'm also now looping in more of like the
research and working with my boss who is a psychologist,
so I'm learning a lot. But yeah, kind of combining
those two worlds.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Did you want to go ahead and share your story
for people? I mean you could. You can tell us
whatever you want, whatever you don't feel like. I won't
ask questions. But if I ask you a question you
don't like, just just say no response or whatever you
want to say. We'll leave away from it. We'll we'll
go away from it at all. So you go into
the floors all years grace let them know.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, So I would say it all started when I
was thirteen and I had just moved across the country
more halfway from Kansas to Minnesota and had basically just
a whole new life. And that's when I started noticing
symptoms of anxiety and then that kind of progressed into depression.
(02:24):
I was living in a very rural area in Minnesota,
so there wasn't the sense of community. Didn't have that
because it was so tight knit and we were outsiders.
So I think those components and genetics and stuff, it
just all kind of snowballed into depression. And it took
me a while to realize that that's what it was.
(02:45):
And then even once I did, because of where we
were living, there was not really like support available. I
was trying to get into therapy eventually, and then what
we I had the most access was to medication, so
I started those when I was fourteen, and Yeah, for me,
(03:06):
the depression I just kind of got worse and words,
it felt like it was kind of layering in a sense,
and I started just really kind of self combusting and
I felt like I was just caving in, and it
reached I would say it reached a crisis point pretty quickly,
but with the lack of resources and then like my family,
(03:28):
this was our first time dealing with all of this,
so we didn't really know what to do, and then
there was nothing really to do because of what was
available to us, So it, yeah, I reached a crisis
point pretty quick. Kind of we made it work for
a while, and then I did eventually, like go to
the hospital and then I got put into a partial
(03:48):
hospitalization program after that, and I think that was probably
the most helpful for me because I actually got to
meet other kids. I was seventeen at the time, so
I ended up eaching out of the program, but to
meet other younger people going through the same stuff as me,
that was really huge. I would say, like that episode
of depression lasted for like probably a solid three and
(04:09):
a half years, and it broke before I went to college,
and then it started coming back. I think when I
was like and it didn't get like super bad, but
I was pretty like devastated that it even came back
at all. But it was there, and then I went
back on medications and then I went off of them again,
(04:31):
and it was kind of it was similar to the
last episode, where it just kind of layered until eventually
it was really really bad. And that was like a
year and a half ago or two years where it
reached a really bad point and then it again just
kind of snowballed got worse. But the difference this time
around is that I wasn't living in the middle of
(04:54):
nowhere anymore. I had moved to Madison and this job
that I'm in, I actually learned a lot about like
what treatment is available, and that's how I heard about
like ketamine treatment and different levels of care and like residential,
different types of outpatient, different like types of therapy, even
(05:14):
that I didn't know about.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So yeah, this time around where like there's actually options.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah yeah, versus what she had where she were out
in the middle of nowhere basically these Yeah. So to
give you a little background, a boy myself really quick
I grew I went to high school in the middleanory.
I know that feeling you were having, like you came
in and everybody knew everybody, like they were such a
small town. My graduating class only had three hundred and
fourteen people, and it okay, I know there's smaller classes,
but to give you an idea, very tight naked they
(05:43):
all knew each other from the school, middle school and
everything else. So like I was the outsider coming in.
So I could feel one hundred percent of your story
right there, because I was out in Illinois though when
I was there, but I was out like look one
of the suburbs. We were out fifteen minutes away from
everything around us, about fifteen miles or so, give or
take next town over and the next time over is
like ten miles to the north. But there's like that
(06:03):
all Overay there was Walmart, dude, Like there was nothing
like I went from the big cities to like having
lots of stuff going on to where I'm at now.
I'm out in the middle of nowhere and it's a
bunch of farmers, kids and stuff, you know, cornfields for
miles and the next closest thing to was Walmart. And
these people that that was their excitement is Walmart? Like
that Walmart was packed twenty so I hear you listen.
I'm from the north, so I got you, Like, I
didn't know people lived in Minnesota. By the way, I
(06:24):
just wanted to comment that really quick, and I didn't
want trip story. You know, it's a very desertous winter
winter place. If you have never been there, you've never
seen snow. Trust me, you'll never want to see snow
again after that, you know. But it sounds like, you know,
I feel I could relate one hundred percent of that
because it's just like for me, it was like you're
the outsider. But then I luckily it was good at
making friends with people. I eventually had to learn how
(06:47):
to death because I moved schools. Like when I was
in high school, I spent my first year in high
school in one place and I left, but I moved
a lot because I was living with my dad because
my mom and I had agreement. With disagreement was ten,
she dropped me off his doors stuff and ever since then,
I was freamous. But I spent a lot of time
time by myself. Like so I get the isolation. It's
like your thoughts are looming in your head and it's
like you can't tell nobody because he's not home half
(07:07):
the time or he's asleep. And then the other person
there is his girlfriend, who you know. I know this
is gonna sound fuck to everybody, but she she was
badshit crazy, Like I know people say that, I'm literally
when I tell you, this woman is nuts. She was nuts.
Like she was planning their wedding before they even had
had wedding plans at all, Like she had the whole
thing figured out, the DJ, all that stuff figured out.
And I'm just like, so I get that completely. Man,
it's hard, especially then when you start medicating, you start
(07:29):
hating drugs in and things like that because you're like
it gets worse, and we all know that, you know,
addiction and meant to health play very close roles together
because a lot of times people are trying to medicate
those problems they're having. So I get that feeling of
depression and things like that. You because that's why I
do it. Now, it's just like, it's just like that
will to not want to do shit. I'm like, I
don't want to do anything. I get them do the show.
This is probably the highlight of my day most of
the time, he said, you know, when wife gets home.
(07:50):
But I spend a lot of time by myself, so
it's nice when I get to interact with other people.
So she's doing the show, so I get to meet
different people different places, and then I find people that
are you know, have similar stories. It gets more interesting
because it's like now you don't feel so low. Now
you have that little community of people that understand that. Hey, listen,
I get what you're feeling. Trust me. It's horrible, especially
when you're out there in the middle of nowhere and
you feel like the outsider, you know, and it's like
(08:12):
you feel like everybody's judging you for whatever you're doing
because everybody has their tight little groups together and things
like that too.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not the most like freeing environment to
be a teenager, and especially.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Especially being a female teenager. Let's let's cover that really, yeah,
because you know how boys are. We'd like to judge
stify you all. We like to put you on a
pedestal and say harmful, ugly things to you and all this.
Let's just be honest. I can just tell you I
from guys perspective, we just were animals. Okay, let's just
call it what it is. We know what it is.
We know what it is, you know, and it's just
you know, we all were there in high school. We
know what it's like. It was just it was rough.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
For me.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It was rough too because I got bullied a lot
of times too, and like it got really bad to
the point where you know, they were telling people I
had a hit list in my locker. It's like, oh,
that's awesome, and that's the resume. That's fun. Grace is like,
oh shit, look good.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, my my class too. There is there are seven
girls total.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So it was seven girls. Jesus, that's it. The whole
schoolers are just your your your my class.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Now there's there are seventeen of us in my senior class.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Jesus, how much was you how much was your graduating class?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Seven?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
How many all the gather kids did you have? Like,
did you have like a couple of hundred like I did?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Almost? I think the whole school, the whole high school
is probably like one fifty or something, but our class
was really really small.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, I believe it there. Yeah, Okay, where'd you go
in the middle of nowhere? You're like, well, I'm in Wisconsin, man,
there ain't no time. I'm like, very true, very true.
So let me ask you about this. So your suicide ideation,
what what brought upon it? Do you think it was
your depression that brought it up a lot of times?
Or was it just that sense of feeling I won
because you were in that kind of situation where you're
saying like, hey, I kind of went into this new
(09:50):
social setting and I'm like the outsider and everybody else
is just looking at me like I'm the the weirdo
of the group.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah. I think it was definitely the depression, because that
also came on pretty slowly, but it also normalized itself
pretty quickly, I would say too, like it just felt
very very natural to feel how I was feeling and
then be like, well there is a way out, and
it's this, you know, it's that's quicker than medications and therapy.
(10:18):
And so it felt the most appealing to me. And
I think because I was not like being treated really
for depression. It was like I was a little bit
with medications, but I was not getting therapy or anything.
So I didn't really know that there was other solutions
or like other options to treating it or just hope
for getting better because I didn't know anyone in my
(10:40):
position who was going through it, and I had a
lot of really supportive people, but I just it's like,
I don't see how this is going to get better.
And that's like depression to me is just like emotional agony,
and it feels like physical for me to like it
hurts in my chest and it just totally changes everything
and it's miserable. So the suicidal ideation came as a
(11:04):
response to just making that stop. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, let me ask you, so, was it hard to
have relationships with other people, like, you know, with your
depression because you know, a lot of people don't understand
what it's like to go through depression. A lot of
people tell you, oh, hey, grace, cheer up, or hey,
you know, you just gotta look at the positive side things.
You know, that's all great advice, but don't do shit
for us.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Mm hmm. Yeah. I basically did not interact with anyone
at school, like I had a friend, and I was
already known as like the shy girls, so it felt
like I kind of had that bubble so where like
I don't need to interact with people because they already
think I'm shy. But I was really not involved with anything,
like I didn't go to games or just anything, and
(11:47):
so yeah, I was. I didn't really have friends, and
I think, I.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Think I get it, though, I get it because it's hard,
like you know, how you canna explain to somebody, hey,
I feel I feel sad all the time, or you know,
explaining it to somebody without I'm looking at you and going, Okay,
she's fucking crazy, you know what I mean, Like, you know,
that's the thought that's going to come through your head,
as you know, in the fact that everyone already thought
I had their preconceived notions, which I fucking hate his
go for that reason. It's just all these labels, everybody
gives everything. It's it's fucking horrible, you know. It's it's
(12:15):
hard though, because it's like, you know, especially when you
start developing your hormones and things like that, and all
lot of emotions start coming in and you know, and
everybody perceives all women already is crazy and things like that,
and it's really not that. It's you guys are more
in tune than we as males are because we're just
fucking scared to talk about it for what reason. I
don't know why, but we are. But you know, but
I get that feeling though. It's like, you know, that
sense of loneliness and it's like, you know, if somebody
(12:37):
talks to you, you want to like kind of give
the cats at them kind of thing, you know, like
get away. Yeah, yeah, is it? Is it hard now
for you? Did you like social gatherings and things? You
don't seem like the type that really can deal with them.
A lot of times, you like you avoid them.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Sometimes it's gotten a lot better for me. Yeah, Like
I struggle with social anxiety. Yeah, but I think I've
just gotten used to it almost and I know I
just need to do things even if I don't feel
like it, Like I usually have a good time. So
I really enjoy the people that I work with, so
it's it's fun to go do stuff with them.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Do you have a boyfriend? I'm just I'm just asking you.
Is this is gonna lead you another question in a second,
So let me ask you answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I got one like almost a week ago.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
What's up, Grace? So watch up. I'm taking on the
world now. So let me ask you though this is it?
Is it weird though to have some of there? Is
he very supportive? Does he know what you deal with?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah? I was actually very very nervous to tell him,
and I was like, once we had a few dates
in and it was like, it seems like this is
going somewhere. It's getting more like serious. I was like,
I think he needs to know about this, and so
I was, yeah, trying to. I was talking about my
mom about how to like word it and how to
tell him, like, because I didn't know if he would
(13:52):
really understand. I guess and I don't feel like people
I don't expect them to if they haven't been through
it themselves or know someone who has. So it's like
explaining it to him in a way that I want
him to understand it. That just took a lot of
like thinking for me.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm worried about what he's going to respond,
but that get that, that makes sense. But he was
understanding though you said, right, you did go Well that's
good though. I mean, at least he understands and then
you know, you can teach him some things the long
the way too, like, hey, listen, if I get in
these moods, here's what you can do for me, you know,
I mean, this is a it's a real good thing
because you can educate him on how to better help you.
And you know, and if his ability he's willing to learn,
(14:33):
it's even better because then he's willing to listen to Hey, listen, Okay,
this is how I could better be there for her,
you know, versus what he thinks he should do, you
know what I mean. And it I know it sounds
fucked up when you say that you got to train him,
but I mean it is what it is. You got
to teach people how to handle these situations because a
lot of people don't understand him, right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, And when he like asked me questions about it,
and that's like I found.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, questions. All right, I like this guy already. Okay,
are you liking him? That's good?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, it was a nice feeling that he was asked
and being curious and trying to understand it, which was
really big for me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That's good though. I mean, at least he's at least
he's willing to ask questions and kind of get deeper
into it, like, hey, listen, what can I do? You
know what I mean? That has got to him right there,
because that's that's a stellar person there. You asking questions
isn't going to harm anything. In fact, like you said,
it makes you feel better because people want to better
understand what it is you're dealing with and how they
can better be there supported for you as well.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, that's exactly how it felt it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So is it a common conversation between you and your
mom about your mental health? I know at first you
said you kind of put a band aid on the
situation and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, it's that's also gotten much better. I think we
were all like learning learning about depression altogether and then
also learning what to do about it. Yeah, together, so
us getting through.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
At least you had them with you side by side though.
I mean, yeah, willing to learn with you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, they're very very supportive, and they've gone to like
family therapy with me, and just we've worked together on
like what to do about it basically, and especially like
now I'm doing much better now. So what we focused
on is like basically safety planning in a sense, but
more detailed and just like really getting a plan in place.
(16:12):
And I definitely feel that they want to do everything
they can, and that's like really huge and I'm really lucky,
Yeah to have that.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's awesome though, Grace. Let me ask you, though, from
your own experience, for anybody that deals with depression, what
are some tips you can give them? And then the
other part of the question is for those loved ones
that other people that want to help them, maybe maybe
give them a little advice, like, hey, these are some
things that work for me, try these things with them too.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah. I would say for the people who are depressed, like,
I think the most like actually practical thing is to
like you literally just need to survive, you know, like
that's that's what determines how you get through it. And
so to that point, I think you need to start
looking for hope, Like I think it can sound all,
(16:58):
but I think that's truly what saves people. It's having
some hope. And for me, it was like even just
looking forward to what you're going to have for dinner,
like that's that gets you to dinner and then find
something else in the next few hours, and that gets
you through that. And it's like that stacks up and
you just keep surviving and eventually you get through it.
So that's I think that was I wish I had
(17:20):
known that because there's a lot of advice that's like,
I don't know, take it one day at a time,
but I think this acknowledges like it is so hard,
Like I know it's so hard, like it's miserable and
you just want to be done. It's like, don't be
and it'll get better.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And that's well, it's the same thing. Think about it
though you've experienced it, so you're talking from experience because
you know that alreadiminates the first comment of what do
you know about it? Well, in fact, I held it myself,
so I'm right here with you. Yeah, and it makes
it relatable. Do you get a lot of people that
come up to you ask you questions like that, like, hey, Grace,
I got it, or do you ever like notice some
people are struggling, go up there and say something with
inspirational them. Hey, listen, I know how you feel. It's
(17:59):
not as bad as you think it's going to be.
You know, kind of things like that too.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Definitely in high school because I had a time where
I told all the girls I had them over and
just told them yeah, And after that I had someone
come to me later and be like, I'm struggling with this,
and now I don't know or I think someone else
I know is struggling with this, and yeah, that's kind
of continued throughout the years, and I don't always feel
like I'm the right person to give advice because for me,
(18:26):
I don't know if I've ever like beat it or
if I'm gonna be in recovery.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Think it's more because you currently deal with it. I
think they're asking for your advice, like how did you
make it? And I think you know it's easy to
relate to somebody though that it's been through it, Like
you know, you probably feel the same way, like I
can you look at something and go, well, what the
hell you know about this? And then they say, well,
I deal with something similar instantly you're like, okay, well
it drops the wall a little bit. You know, that
card doesn't come it comes down a little bit. So
(18:51):
maybe that's what they're seeing. They're like, well, Grace is
dealt with this. Maybe I can ask for some advice
and things, you know. And then now it's where you're working.
Now you probably got you start and learn some new things.
You can start sharing stuff with people. You know. Yeah,
they're doing all these different podcasts. Now you're doing the
trail blazing, you know. I mean, if people want to
hear real people, that's what it is when it comes
down to your end of the day. They want to
know somebody is dealt with this, and you know, and
(19:12):
you don't have to be a professional give advice. It's
just you're just giving them advice. Hey listen, this is
what I did. This is what works. So for the
loved ones, for somebody that has to deal with somebody
that may have depression, do you have advice for them? Like,
hey listen, these are some things that you could try
to see if they help.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Mm hmm yeah. I would say. The top thing is like,
you can't fix it and that's not your job. And
I think like for me, my parents. They really wanted
to fix it, and that kind of I think limited
them in a way where they were so almost consumed
by that, like fixing it, and what I wanted and
what I appreciate the most is just having someone there
(19:47):
with me, the feeling that they're beside me, Like I
don't think anyone can fix it, and I don't expect
anyone to, but going through it when you don't feel
like you're alone, that to me is what makes the
biggest difference. So practically that would be like just going
over and watching a movie, or it's something small, just
taking a walk. A lot of it for me was
(20:09):
to not have to make.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Decisions, would you say, just kind of being pressient there,
you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like if my mom would just come over and be
like we're going to go on a walk like that,
that would be really nice. Or help me clean my
apartment stuff like yeah, just being present like it's it's
not in anyone else's place the responsibility to fix it.
And I think if you can understand that and then
see like, oh, but I can help in this way,
or I can like take them to therapy, or just
(20:37):
be supportive emotionally supportive as they're going through treatment like that.
I don't know if people realize how much of a
difference that makes, but for me, it was huge.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And that's really what I always say. But hearing it
come from somebody deals with it, it's more powerful because
it's like, Okay, well they understand you have depression, and
people listening to this episode are going to understand, now, okay, listen,
well this is what Grace is telling us that, you know, hey,
this is what worked for me. Try these things, you know.
I mean, this is coming from somebody that deals with you, you know,
and you said, treatment wise, So are you doing ketamine
(21:07):
for your depression?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I have, I haven't done it in a while.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
So do you want to kind of touch on a
little bit for somebody what it's like, you know, just
so they have a feeling for what it is. Because
a lot of people hear the names of these things,
they have no idea what they actually are.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah. Yeah, So I there's two versions of ketamine treatment
ones asketamine and that's like a nasal spray, and then
the one I did it was infusion, so it was
like I was hooked up to an IV And they
say that one is more powerful. But what drew me
to ketamine is the fact that it can kind of
(21:40):
be like magic almost. I had heard people would have
one session and then they would no longer have like
suicide ideation and their depression would lift, like really considerably,
and that sounded really appealing when like medications can take
like a month to start having any effect, and for me,
I get a lot of side effects.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
So I was gonna get into that too, the side effecting.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yep, yeah, yeah, So ketamine just sounded really exciting. I
remember when I first learned about it, I like sent
it to my mom and I was like, can you
imagine if we had access to this or if we
knew about this? So then I was like, well, it
is coming back like the depression. Well, it's like, I'm
just going to try this. It's an option. It's actually
available to me now that I'm living here, and I
(22:27):
want to do it. It is. It's very expensive though,
it's not covered by insurance.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's like we're supposed to have insurance, but it doesn't
cover the shit hardly. It's like, yeah, so what's the
point of this ship then if it doesn't cover ninety
percent of things I need? What the hell's the point.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Of you, right, Yeah, yeah, so I they recommend an
initial like package of six sessions, and for me, they
said that I should be doing two a week because
of the severity of my symptoms. Otherwise you do one
every week, but I did two, and you basically can't
like work afterwards or anything. So I needed to take
(23:02):
a lot of stick time. Yeah, but yeah, in the
actual process, I could just run through that quick. They
started by weighing me. That was how they figured out
my dose, and then just you sit in like a
nice darkish room. I bent to two clinics and they
both had like just very comfy, cozy feeling, and yeah,
I just got an IV put in and then I
(23:24):
got anti nausea medications because the I guess kindamine can
make you throw up. So I had that and then
they would just start the effusion. You need to have
I didn't know this, but you need to have music
without words that is like the top piece of advice
and like cheerful music, if that makes sense, like upbeat. Yeah,
(23:45):
music that like totally dictated the whole experience. For me.
It was my music.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, so what did you what music did you use?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It was there's a few playlists on Spotify, even like
Kedymine Infusion song and they're kind of like a cereal Yeah,
So I would do those yeah, and it starts like
they kind of drip it, so it comes on slow,
and then I would just yeah, go into full association.
(24:12):
And I had expected kind of to like see things
and maybe be like working through trauma or memories and
like revisiting things. But for me, I was either like
flying around in my mind or I would see people
like I saw my mom but I didn't know she
was my mom, but I did this. It was strange.
It was basically like your dreaming is what I would
(24:33):
say if it was like you're dreaming and it's like
reality totally slips away. It doesn't feel like I could
picture where we had parked and stuff, and I was like,
but that's not my car anymore, and like we're not
we're not on earth anymore. Yeah, and yeah, my first
session was kind of spooky because I didn't have the
right music.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
God, what did you pick up with the first session?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I yeah, I had stuff cued up and it was
like right before I put my AirPod in and I said,
that doesn't have words right, And I was like it does,
so I panicked and like picked a rain song rain sounds,
so then I saw myself. I was like in a
dark rain and it was really scary.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Grease is like I'm tripping balls to man, I don't
know what's going on. This is not great.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah yeah, and then yeah, second session, I figured out
the music thing that helps. I actually though I got
dosed too high the second time, so that was shit.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Okay, So is it more intensive a feeling then yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And I think with that like because kind I mean,
they use it before surgery too, to like knock you out,
so I think that's what I just like fell asleep
and I remember like getting woken up by them shaking me.
And so the next session they got it figured out,
so we reached a good like middle ground and I
did that yeah, six times total.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
So how did you feel afterwards these sessions? Did you
feel like it was doing something for you? Did your
mood feel like it lift it up a bit? I
know they say to take off the day afterwards, you know,
and things like that, but how were you feeling afterwards?
Did you feel like it was getting somewhere?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I really didn't, And like I would say, I don't
feel like it ever made anything worse. It felt like
be like doing something, like trying to make it better.
But I definitely didn't get the like, wow, everything's so
much better. Like I It's like I maybe that did something.
And one of my I got two like booster sessions
(26:27):
in the months afterwards. One of those felt like it
did something. But what I've seen is there's seventy percent
of people respond like really well to ketamine and then
thirty percent don't. So I was hoping i'd get into
the seventy percent, but I think I was in thirty.
And again, I don't feel like it hurt, but I
don't think I would do it again, especially for this.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, and after that trip, you know, actually put on
some rage against the machine. I could really imagine what
that would be like, God just start tripping balls. Toberella
screaming in the background. So we're at the part of
the show. I don't know if you ever seen anyse
episodes about I asked two important questions everybody just a
little fun ones. Okay, So the first one is credit
to a good friend of mine shows a podcast called
The Shit That Goes On in Our Heads? So Grace
(27:08):
if you're bent to halt. Had a song, what would
it be out a song? Yeah, it had a song, Yep,
any song you can think of it. It could be
the first song that comes to mind. As soon as
that questions asked.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You, the first thing that came to mind is I
think it's called the Night We Met or Haron.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Don't know that one. I'll to check it out though.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So we've had mentioned answers earlier. It was my last
guest he said, what do you see some song by
the doors? And then we've had Rage against the Machine
come up as one of them. I had a forty
year old Middle Eastern woman and tell me beat It
by Michael Jackson. So it's it's always interesting to hear
what people have to say about things like that too,
you know, because it's it gets really interesting because people
are like, oh damn, this is a great question. Because
(27:48):
when I was asked, I had two different songs, Like
I said, I can't I can't think of the name
of the band. But it's if you're seeing it's that
movie Scott Pilgrim, the beginning intro song that they're playing
that it's like when my anxiety's high, that would be
how you describe anxiety to people, just completely all over
the place, just one constant, steady, you know. And then
if it was my depression kicks in, it's leave a
light on, talk with it dark by popa roach, it
(28:09):
would have been in it. But there's also another one.
It's called a Different Kind of Pain by Cold. It
was one of the last songs they did before the
band took a break because it was a song dedicated
to one of their fans who lost somebody, and it
was like this like ten minute long song and it's
just really soft and everything else like that too, you know.
But in the background you hear like the rain, noises
and things going on. So it's a lot going on
there because my anxiety feeds my depression a lot of times.
(28:32):
And then you know, vice versa and things like that too.
So like my my brain goes a thousand miles an hours.
So the next question and all important question of why
this podcast is if you could break the stigma about
mental health. Okay, when I say that, I mean things
that you see on the internet that just piss you off,
Like you see something like that's just not right, man.
Stop stop lying to people. What would you would you
(28:54):
say it would be.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Mm hm I yeah, I would say it's it's mis
conception of like just ask for help and like yes,
but that's in my experience that's been like just one
half of it. Like I did ask for help and
they never called me back, you know, Like it's I
don't think people realize the landscape of getting treatment right now,
(29:17):
and how I think it needs to shift from it's
all on you to ask for help into like it's
kind of a group effort. I would say, like your
support system. If they understood the treatment landscape, it would
make more sense to be like we're going to help
you find multiple options, help you call all of them
and come up with a plan for when you're waiting.
(29:38):
It's like I've never just gotten right in anywhere besides
like the hospital, you know. So that was my huge frustration,
and each time that I experienced depression and needed treatment,
it was like like I literally they would not call
me back.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Is this escape art? That's like you're calling for help
and then you won't call you back. Or it's like
those people that tell you, hey, Grace, call me if
you need something, and then you call them and they
don't answer to goddamn phone. It's like, you know, pick
up the damn phone.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Mm hm. So I think that that can kind of
stigmatize people who are struggling and not in treatment. It's like,
I bet you that they're thinking about it and maybe trying,
but it's it can be so hard to reach out
at all, and then when you do not have them
pick off. That's I think that should not like be legal.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know, Like, yeah, because I had somebody that said
they called somebody that basically the person that told them
to call them said, Oh, I'm too busy to talk
to you right now, even though I'm calling you to
tell you there's a problem. You know, I'm telling you
there's an issue, and it's it's it's scary because it's like,
you know, all the people always say that and everything
they say that cringe because I'm like, oh, but are
you really going to answer the fucking phone? Somebody calls you,
like they tell somebody else that too, and I'm just
(30:44):
that's the thought first thought it comes to mind. It's like,
are you gonna really say something? Are you really gonna
answer the phone, or are you gonna just gonna ignore me?
That's the real question. You start thinking, you know, my
anxiety will take off and be like, yeah, are they
gonna call? I don't know if they're gonna answer. If
I call them, I call this person, I know for
sure my people will answer. Or if I call they,
this is my call. They're calling me right back. Is
I don't call many people ten thousand times or anything
like that. I'll call you and if I call you,
(31:06):
especially my buddy in California. He's on a different time
zone than we are, so he's two ours behind, so
he knows if I'm calling him at like one o'clock
my time in the morning, like what is it, Like
it's eleven his time. He knows something's up. He answers,
or he'll call me back or text me like yo,
heyne me know, he'll do some kind of response. He'll
he'll message me or something. He's basic, Hey, let me
give a call you back just a second. You know,
he knows I'm calling him, though. But that's a great
(31:26):
thing about a support system for people that don't know
what that is, and you know that's that's the safe
plan that Grace is referring to, is that having these
people she could reach out to if she needs to,
you know, and things like that too. So let me
ask you this question, though, do you do you spend
a lot of time on social media?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
No?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Okay, so you may not have seen this. Then this guy,
I can't think of what his account name is, but
he was on Instagram. He went on and lily told
people that depression is not real. Okay, says it's not real.
It says it's just a mindset that you're you're locked
in and that you can you can fix it easy.
I'm like, hmm, god stop. So you know, and the
(32:02):
problem with the thing I'm afraid with social media is
I feel like these people that are afraid to ask
for help are getting the wrong information. And you're seeing
these idiots say these things or the guided what is
he he said water doesn't hydrate you or something. I
was just like, oh God, please stop fucking stop, God,
please stop. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's a
scary place out there. So if you want to go
(32:23):
ahead and tell a body a little bit about recovery
dot com, what is it exactly you all do there?
You know, just give them a little feel for what
it is. Maybe maybe it'll be helpful to somebody.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, it's a website that helps you find addiction, mental
health treatment and like eating disorders, behavioral addictions.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Is it for all states though? Is it just kind
of a broad station tells you who falls in you're
saying things like that too.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yep. It's worldwide, so you can search by like location,
what condition you need treatment for your insurance, on the
level of care that you want, even like amenity, cell
phone access. And then what I help too is we
have a really like robust they called a resource library,
so it's articles on different conditions and like how to
(33:09):
help people. So they're focused both on like helping the
person looking for treatment and then helping them their supports us.
So I love it them.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I have to add that to my toolkit done things,
because I'd also have one that's called help hub dot org,
help hub dot co. Sorry it was it was done
by a psychiatrist name Lisha Sugarman, so.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
She has we're partnered with them.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, that's right, you're right. You're right. That's awesome though,
because like I said, that was originally my big toolkit.
Now got recovery dot Com added too, because she had
mentioned how you guys were in a partnership and you
were and she didn't really announce it, but she was
telling me a little bit about it, so and then
she she finally could release it and tell everybody about it.
So it's really cool to see though, that you guys
are networking together to help bring and especially the thing
(33:50):
of helping other people that need to know what to
do in these situations like hey, and go there and
look up whatever whatever it is like you deal with
or somebody else is dealing with and these other things.
And it's a great resource. So I have to add
it to definitely to my list of things that just
suggest that people listen. Hey, you the recovery dot com.
There's this one there. Cana's got mined, might need dot
core there's really good, you know, and things like that.
(34:11):
You So it's really cool what you're doing. Man, it's awesome. Yeah,
you know, especially you know somebody that deals with you know,
depression and things like that too. You know, you're you're
really making a difference, I feel, you know, because you're
giving people the resources that they didn't have ten years ago,
all these years ago. And you know, Lisa's work too
is really great. And now that you guys are together,
and you're just kind of super charging each other. Now
now you're really getting an extended grab of everybody, and
(34:33):
you know other things like that too. So we appreciate
everything to do and I appreciate you coming in though
and talking to us today. You'll have to give us
updatea on the boyfriend so we can know we had
a harassment or no. If he messes up boyfriend you,
I notice all We're all better to go ryder. We're
gonna get you. But anyways, Grace. With that being said,
we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete for Anxiety.
Do you want to go ahead and plug everybody where
they can find you the case they want to comes
(34:55):
give you some rug supplies. Say, hey, listen, I heard
you on Pete for Sonxiety, or heard you on Rocket Recovery,
all these the great places you've been. Where's the best
place for people to reach you.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, I've got a Instagram. I usually I use it
mostly for my like writing, creative writing that I do.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
But it's what are you writing over there?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Brother?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We have to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's I've written a young adult dystopian and I'm working
on finishing another one, so well.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Don't pretty plug it to where if you plug Instagram,
the plug to find it too, because I support all
things that people do.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It's called Gilded Eagles. It's on Amazon and my Instagram
is writer dot Grace Josephine and I've got it linked there.
But I post about the conferences and go to and stuff,
so you'll be able to see some of that too.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh it's cool. So so real quick, before we wrap up,
we want to know about the book.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You can't just drop a book name and I tell
us a little bit about it. Come on now, So
what's what's the first book about? And give us a
little preview? What's the next one? Is? Is the series
is basically a series you're working on.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
They're split the first one. It's basically the theme is
like redemption forgiveness, So it's it's about a girl who
basically thinks something has happened, something terrible has happened to
her family, and then what she does to kind of
even the score, and then what she does when she
realizes that she kind of became who she meant to
(36:18):
destroy is how i'd say it.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
A lot of like I really like like unexpected allies
family betrayally then, so it was it helped me work
through a lot of things in my whole life.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, so the second book, what is this one take off?
Is it leading from the last one, or is this
a whole nother story we're going into.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, it's a it's a whole new story. So it's
a I would say, like post apocalyptic fantasy. It's got
it's I'm trying to think if I could remember mine.
We just made like log lines, like a one sentence
summary in the class that I'm in. I think, okay,
it was two gifted teens. Anyway, it's it's two teenagers
that each have a gift, like a world saving gift.
(36:58):
And the story is basically they just find out like
there's there's a rebellion, there's like people who want to
kidnap them, and then the emperors who are in charge
of everything like aren't actually super good people. And I
had one of the characters she's a good girl. She
kind of has all this pressure to keep people alive
because she has like water as a power and.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Kind of like Avatar the Last Airbender, the different elemental
powers and things just kind of yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, and just kind of her descent into madness pretty
much as the pressure gets to be too much. So
it's been very interesting. I'm on draft too, so there's
a lot that I'll probably change, but.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
No timeline when it's coming out, so you know, we
keep people clip hanging.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, I'm really I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Give us updated then you just let someone when it
comes out. Then that way I can update the show
notes and let people know, hey, listen, it's available now everywhere,
you know, and well so you can always tag me
in it too, and I'll share it out and all
that kind of stuff. I'm very supportive of other people,
you know. And maybe eventually I'll get my book written.
You know, it's called Man. Yeah, this feels like highchool
I've changed the title. It was originally gonna be the
Voice of the Voice List, but now it just kind
(38:03):
of liked the name. Man. This feels like high schools. Well,
I'm gonna call it though, I mean my self titled
memoir about my you know, a lot of things I
don't tell people. There's I tell people a little bit
about myself and not a lot. There's a lot more
to Pete than people realize, you know, the inner dialogue
and the thoughts I have in my head and stuff.
It's just I got to get around to write it. Eventually,
you know, it'll lit'll happen.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Well, that being said, guys, we're gonna wrap up this
episode of Pete for Society. Grace, thank you so much
for coming. I appreciate you coming hang out with us,
you know, give us a little more information, you know.
Thank you for sharing your story. I know it's hard
for a lot of people to come and tell their
stories and things like that too. You know, you know
somebody's gonna hear it and be like, oh damn, well,
I agree with Grace. I'm right there, and then you
never know, they'll reach out me. They'll check out the
books too and be like, hey, listen to like what
you got. You know, it could be a future future
(38:41):
bestseller for all we know that'd mean awesome. Well, guys,
that's so they're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete
for Anxiety. Guys, you know where to find me. I'm
on X all way done to TikTok. Yeah, I'm everywhere.
I'm on Spotify down to Pandora Radio now as well, guys.
And as I always say, it cost something absolutely not
to be kind to somebody. One kind act you could do,
could say sometime's live for hell, can you make their day?
I'm pete for so anxiety sign out saying don't ask
how your days? They say, hey, how's your mental health?
(39:03):
So I haven't I break my neck. It's the time
to reflected the night for Dack for never will die,
for the prince of a text, and gout my integrity
in my word.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
My brother died
Hello, Welcome to an exciting episode of Pete for Anxiety.
My guest Today's a clinical research specialist at recovery dot Com.
It's dedicated to advancing research inditiatives and dismissed disseminating crucial
findings in the field of mental health and recovery. Her
work is fueled by personal journey through recovery, which is
profoundly informs her approach to helping others understand and navigate
their paths. These welcome in the Ones and the Only. Grace, Ogan,
(00:42):
how are you doing? Does that say you're lasting right?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Ogrin? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you you don't too much? Grace, Okay, God, anyways, Grace,
how are you doing today? You're doing good, very good. Yeah,
it's finally feeling like fall where I live. That's been nice.
How right you are you in Texas? By Way's probably
where you have it's hot.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And then Madison, Wisconsin it feels.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Like father Okay. Anyways, yeah, well, Grace, won't you tell
about a little more about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm someone who has lived experience with depression
and suicidality and anxiety and some other stuff too, but
I've been able to use it. I would say, in
the current work that I do. So that's been kind
of where it's taken me and just a lot of
stuff by chance to getting this job and then progressing
(01:30):
into using my experience. I'm yeah, someone have lived experience.
Then I'm also now looping in more of like the
research and working with my boss who is a psychologist,
so I'm learning a lot. But yeah, kind of combining
those two worlds.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Did you want to go ahead and share your story
for people? I mean you could. You can tell us
whatever you want, whatever you don't feel like. I won't
ask questions. But if I ask you a question you
don't like, just just say no response or whatever you
want to say. We'll leave away from it. We'll we'll
go away from it at all. So you go into
the floors all years grace let them know.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, So I would say it all started when I
was thirteen and I had just moved across the country
more halfway from Kansas to Minnesota and had basically just
a whole new life. And that's when I started noticing
symptoms of anxiety and then that kind of progressed into depression.
(02:24):
I was living in a very rural area in Minnesota,
so there wasn't the sense of community. Didn't have that
because it was so tight knit and we were outsiders.
So I think those components and genetics and stuff, it
just all kind of snowballed into depression. And it took
me a while to realize that that's what it was.
(02:45):
And then even once I did, because of where we
were living, there was not really like support available. I
was trying to get into therapy eventually, and then what
we I had the most access was to medication, so
I started those when I was fourteen, and Yeah, for me,
(03:06):
the depression I just kind of got worse and words,
it felt like it was kind of layering in a sense,
and I started just really kind of self combusting and
I felt like I was just caving in, and it
reached I would say it reached a crisis point pretty quickly,
but with the lack of resources and then like my family,
(03:28):
this was our first time dealing with all of this,
so we didn't really know what to do, and then
there was nothing really to do because of what was
available to us, So it, yeah, I reached a crisis
point pretty quick. Kind of we made it work for
a while, and then I did eventually, like go to
the hospital and then I got put into a partial
(03:48):
hospitalization program after that, and I think that was probably
the most helpful for me because I actually got to
meet other kids. I was seventeen at the time, so
I ended up eaching out of the program, but to
meet other younger people going through the same stuff as me,
that was really huge. I would say, like that episode
of depression lasted for like probably a solid three and
(04:09):
a half years, and it broke before I went to college,
and then it started coming back. I think when I
was like and it didn't get like super bad, but
I was pretty like devastated that it even came back
at all. But it was there, and then I went
back on medications and then I went off of them again,
(04:31):
and it was kind of it was similar to the
last episode, where it just kind of layered until eventually
it was really really bad. And that was like a
year and a half ago or two years where it
reached a really bad point and then it again just
kind of snowballed got worse. But the difference this time
around is that I wasn't living in the middle of
(04:54):
nowhere anymore. I had moved to Madison and this job
that I'm in, I actually learned a lot about like
what treatment is available, and that's how I heard about
like ketamine treatment and different levels of care and like residential,
different types of outpatient, different like types of therapy, even
(05:14):
that I didn't know about.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So yeah, this time around where like there's actually options.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah yeah, versus what she had where she were out
in the middle of nowhere basically these Yeah. So to
give you a little background, a boy myself really quick
I grew I went to high school in the middleanory.
I know that feeling you were having, like you came
in and everybody knew everybody, like they were such a
small town. My graduating class only had three hundred and
fourteen people, and it okay, I know there's smaller classes,
but to give you an idea, very tight naked they
(05:43):
all knew each other from the school, middle school and
everything else. So like I was the outsider coming in.
So I could feel one hundred percent of your story
right there, because I was out in Illinois though when
I was there, but I was out like look one
of the suburbs. We were out fifteen minutes away from
everything around us, about fifteen miles or so, give or
take next town over and the next time over is
like ten miles to the north. But there's like that
(06:03):
all Overay there was Walmart, dude, Like there was nothing
like I went from the big cities to like having
lots of stuff going on to where I'm at now.
I'm out in the middle of nowhere and it's a
bunch of farmers, kids and stuff, you know, cornfields for
miles and the next closest thing to was Walmart. And
these people that that was their excitement is Walmart? Like
that Walmart was packed twenty so I hear you listen.
I'm from the north, so I got you, Like, I
didn't know people lived in Minnesota. By the way, I
(06:24):
just wanted to comment that really quick, and I didn't
want trip story. You know, it's a very desertous winter
winter place. If you have never been there, you've never
seen snow. Trust me, you'll never want to see snow
again after that, you know. But it sounds like, you know,
I feel I could relate one hundred percent of that
because it's just like for me, it was like you're
the outsider. But then I luckily it was good at
making friends with people. I eventually had to learn how
(06:47):
to death because I moved schools. Like when I was
in high school, I spent my first year in high
school in one place and I left, but I moved
a lot because I was living with my dad because
my mom and I had agreement. With disagreement was ten,
she dropped me off his doors stuff and ever since then,
I was freamous. But I spent a lot of time
time by myself. Like so I get the isolation. It's
like your thoughts are looming in your head and it's
like you can't tell nobody because he's not home half
(07:07):
the time or he's asleep. And then the other person
there is his girlfriend, who you know. I know this
is gonna sound fuck to everybody, but she she was
badshit crazy, Like I know people say that, I'm literally
when I tell you, this woman is nuts. She was nuts.
Like she was planning their wedding before they even had
had wedding plans at all, Like she had the whole
thing figured out, the DJ, all that stuff figured out.
And I'm just like, so I get that completely. Man,
it's hard, especially then when you start medicating, you start
(07:29):
hating drugs in and things like that because you're like
it gets worse, and we all know that, you know,
addiction and meant to health play very close roles together
because a lot of times people are trying to medicate
those problems they're having. So I get that feeling of
depression and things like that. You because that's why I
do it. Now, it's just like, it's just like that
will to not want to do shit. I'm like, I
don't want to do anything. I get them do the show.
This is probably the highlight of my day most of
the time, he said, you know, when wife gets home.
(07:50):
But I spend a lot of time by myself, so
it's nice when I get to interact with other people.
So she's doing the show, so I get to meet
different people different places, and then I find people that
are you know, have similar stories. It gets more interesting
because it's like now you don't feel so low. Now
you have that little community of people that understand that. Hey, listen,
I get what you're feeling. Trust me. It's horrible, especially
when you're out there in the middle of nowhere and
you feel like the outsider, you know, and it's like
(08:12):
you feel like everybody's judging you for whatever you're doing
because everybody has their tight little groups together and things
like that too.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not the most like freeing environment to
be a teenager, and especially.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Especially being a female teenager. Let's let's cover that really, yeah,
because you know how boys are. We'd like to judge
stify you all. We like to put you on a
pedestal and say harmful, ugly things to you and all this.
Let's just be honest. I can just tell you I
from guys perspective, we just were animals. Okay, let's just
call it what it is. We know what it is.
We know what it is, you know, and it's just
you know, we all were there in high school. We
know what it's like. It was just it was rough.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
For me.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It was rough too because I got bullied a lot
of times too, and like it got really bad to
the point where you know, they were telling people I
had a hit list in my locker. It's like, oh,
that's awesome, and that's the resume. That's fun. Grace is like,
oh shit, look good.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, my my class too. There is there are seven
girls total.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So it was seven girls. Jesus, that's it. The whole
schoolers are just your your your my class.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Now there's there are seventeen of us in my senior class.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Jesus, how much was you how much was your graduating class?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Seven?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
How many all the gather kids did you have? Like,
did you have like a couple of hundred like I did?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Almost? I think the whole school, the whole high school
is probably like one fifty or something, but our class
was really really small.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, I believe it there. Yeah, Okay, where'd you go
in the middle of nowhere? You're like, well, I'm in Wisconsin, man,
there ain't no time. I'm like, very true, very true.
So let me ask you about this. So your suicide ideation,
what what brought upon it? Do you think it was
your depression that brought it up a lot of times?
Or was it just that sense of feeling I won
because you were in that kind of situation where you're
saying like, hey, I kind of went into this new
(09:50):
social setting and I'm like the outsider and everybody else
is just looking at me like I'm the the weirdo
of the group.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah. I think it was definitely the depression, because that
also came on pretty slowly, but it also normalized itself
pretty quickly, I would say too, like it just felt
very very natural to feel how I was feeling and
then be like, well there is a way out, and
it's this, you know, it's that's quicker than medications and therapy.
(10:18):
And so it felt the most appealing to me. And
I think because I was not like being treated really
for depression. It was like I was a little bit
with medications, but I was not getting therapy or anything.
So I didn't really know that there was other solutions
or like other options to treating it or just hope
for getting better because I didn't know anyone in my
(10:40):
position who was going through it, and I had a
lot of really supportive people, but I just it's like,
I don't see how this is going to get better.
And that's like depression to me is just like emotional agony,
and it feels like physical for me to like it
hurts in my chest and it just totally changes everything
and it's miserable. So the suicidal ideation came as a
(11:04):
response to just making that stop. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, let me ask you, so, was it hard to
have relationships with other people, like, you know, with your
depression because you know, a lot of people don't understand
what it's like to go through depression. A lot of
people tell you, oh, hey, grace, cheer up, or hey,
you know, you just gotta look at the positive side things.
You know, that's all great advice, but don't do shit
for us.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Mm hmm. Yeah. I basically did not interact with anyone
at school, like I had a friend, and I was
already known as like the shy girls, so it felt
like I kind of had that bubble so where like
I don't need to interact with people because they already
think I'm shy. But I was really not involved with anything,
like I didn't go to games or just anything, and
(11:47):
so yeah, I was. I didn't really have friends, and
I think, I.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Think I get it, though, I get it because it's hard,
like you know, how you canna explain to somebody, hey,
I feel I feel sad all the time, or you know,
explaining it to somebody without I'm looking at you and going, Okay,
she's fucking crazy, you know what I mean, Like, you know,
that's the thought that's going to come through your head,
as you know, in the fact that everyone already thought
I had their preconceived notions, which I fucking hate his
go for that reason. It's just all these labels, everybody
gives everything. It's it's fucking horrible, you know. It's it's
(12:15):
hard though, because it's like, you know, especially when you
start developing your hormones and things like that, and all
lot of emotions start coming in and you know, and
everybody perceives all women already is crazy and things like that,
and it's really not that. It's you guys are more
in tune than we as males are because we're just
fucking scared to talk about it for what reason. I
don't know why, but we are. But you know, but
I get that feeling though. It's like, you know, that
sense of loneliness and it's like, you know, if somebody
(12:37):
talks to you, you want to like kind of give
the cats at them kind of thing, you know, like
get away. Yeah, yeah, is it? Is it hard now
for you? Did you like social gatherings and things? You
don't seem like the type that really can deal with them.
A lot of times, you like you avoid them.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Sometimes it's gotten a lot better for me. Yeah, Like
I struggle with social anxiety. Yeah, but I think I've
just gotten used to it almost and I know I
just need to do things even if I don't feel
like it, Like I usually have a good time. So
I really enjoy the people that I work with, so
it's it's fun to go do stuff with them.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Do you have a boyfriend? I'm just I'm just asking you.
Is this is gonna lead you another question in a second,
So let me ask you answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I got one like almost a week ago.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
What's up, Grace? So watch up. I'm taking on the
world now. So let me ask you though this is it?
Is it weird though to have some of there? Is
he very supportive? Does he know what you deal with?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah? I was actually very very nervous to tell him,
and I was like, once we had a few dates
in and it was like, it seems like this is
going somewhere. It's getting more like serious. I was like,
I think he needs to know about this, and so
I was, yeah, trying to. I was talking about my
mom about how to like word it and how to
tell him, like, because I didn't know if he would
(13:52):
really understand. I guess and I don't feel like people
I don't expect them to if they haven't been through
it themselves or know someone who has. So it's like
explaining it to him in a way that I want
him to understand it. That just took a lot of
like thinking for me.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm worried about what he's going to respond,
but that get that, that makes sense. But he was
understanding though you said, right, you did go Well that's
good though. I mean, at least he understands and then
you know, you can teach him some things the long
the way too, like, hey, listen, if I get in
these moods, here's what you can do for me, you know,
I mean, this is a it's a real good thing
because you can educate him on how to better help you.
And you know, and if his ability he's willing to learn,
(14:33):
it's even better because then he's willing to listen to Hey, listen, Okay,
this is how I could better be there for her,
you know, versus what he thinks he should do, you
know what I mean. And it I know it sounds
fucked up when you say that you got to train him,
but I mean it is what it is. You got
to teach people how to handle these situations because a
lot of people don't understand him, right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, And when he like asked me questions about it,
and that's like I found.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, questions. All right, I like this guy already. Okay,
are you liking him? That's good?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, it was a nice feeling that he was asked
and being curious and trying to understand it, which was
really big for me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That's good though. I mean, at least he's at least
he's willing to ask questions and kind of get deeper
into it, like, hey, listen, what can I do? You
know what I mean? That has got to him right there,
because that's that's a stellar person there. You asking questions
isn't going to harm anything. In fact, like you said,
it makes you feel better because people want to better
understand what it is you're dealing with and how they
can better be there supported for you as well.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, that's exactly how it felt it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So is it a common conversation between you and your
mom about your mental health? I know at first you
said you kind of put a band aid on the
situation and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, it's that's also gotten much better. I think we
were all like learning learning about depression altogether and then
also learning what to do about it. Yeah, together, so
us getting through.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
At least you had them with you side by side though.
I mean, yeah, willing to learn with you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, they're very very supportive, and they've gone to like
family therapy with me, and just we've worked together on
like what to do about it basically, and especially like
now I'm doing much better now. So what we focused
on is like basically safety planning in a sense, but
more detailed and just like really getting a plan in place.
(16:12):
And I definitely feel that they want to do everything
they can, and that's like really huge and I'm really lucky,
Yeah to have that.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's awesome though, Grace. Let me ask you, though, from
your own experience, for anybody that deals with depression, what
are some tips you can give them? And then the
other part of the question is for those loved ones
that other people that want to help them, maybe maybe
give them a little advice, like, hey, these are some
things that work for me, try these things with them too.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah. I would say for the people who are depressed, like,
I think the most like actually practical thing is to
like you literally just need to survive, you know, like
that's that's what determines how you get through it. And
so to that point, I think you need to start
looking for hope, Like I think it can sound all,
(16:58):
but I think that's truly what saves people. It's having
some hope. And for me, it was like even just
looking forward to what you're going to have for dinner,
like that's that gets you to dinner and then find
something else in the next few hours, and that gets
you through that. And it's like that stacks up and
you just keep surviving and eventually you get through it.
So that's I think that was I wish I had
(17:20):
known that because there's a lot of advice that's like,
I don't know, take it one day at a time,
but I think this acknowledges like it is so hard,
Like I know it's so hard, like it's miserable and
you just want to be done. It's like, don't be
and it'll get better.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And that's well, it's the same thing. Think about it
though you've experienced it, so you're talking from experience because
you know that alreadiminates the first comment of what do
you know about it? Well, in fact, I held it myself,
so I'm right here with you. Yeah, and it makes
it relatable. Do you get a lot of people that
come up to you ask you questions like that, like, hey, Grace,
I got it, or do you ever like notice some
people are struggling, go up there and say something with
inspirational them. Hey, listen, I know how you feel. It's
(17:59):
not as bad as you think it's going to be.
You know, kind of things like that too.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Definitely in high school because I had a time where
I told all the girls I had them over and
just told them yeah, And after that I had someone
come to me later and be like, I'm struggling with this,
and now I don't know or I think someone else
I know is struggling with this, and yeah, that's kind
of continued throughout the years, and I don't always feel
like I'm the right person to give advice because for me,
(18:26):
I don't know if I've ever like beat it or
if I'm gonna be in recovery.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Think it's more because you currently deal with it. I
think they're asking for your advice, like how did you
make it? And I think you know it's easy to
relate to somebody though that it's been through it, Like
you know, you probably feel the same way, like I
can you look at something and go, well, what the
hell you know about this? And then they say, well,
I deal with something similar instantly you're like, okay, well
it drops the wall a little bit. You know, that
card doesn't come it comes down a little bit. So
(18:51):
maybe that's what they're seeing. They're like, well, Grace is
dealt with this. Maybe I can ask for some advice
and things, you know. And then now it's where you're working.
Now you probably got you start and learn some new things.
You can start sharing stuff with people. You know. Yeah,
they're doing all these different podcasts. Now you're doing the
trail blazing, you know. I mean, if people want to
hear real people, that's what it is when it comes
down to your end of the day. They want to
know somebody is dealt with this, and you know, and
(19:12):
you don't have to be a professional give advice. It's
just you're just giving them advice. Hey listen, this is
what I did. This is what works. So for the
loved ones, for somebody that has to deal with somebody
that may have depression, do you have advice for them? Like,
hey listen, these are some things that you could try
to see if they help.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Mm hmm yeah. I would say. The top thing is like,
you can't fix it and that's not your job. And
I think like for me, my parents. They really wanted
to fix it, and that kind of I think limited
them in a way where they were so almost consumed
by that, like fixing it, and what I wanted and
what I appreciate the most is just having someone there
(19:47):
with me, the feeling that they're beside me, Like I
don't think anyone can fix it, and I don't expect
anyone to, but going through it when you don't feel
like you're alone, that to me is what makes the
biggest difference. So practically that would be like just going
over and watching a movie, or it's something small, just
taking a walk. A lot of it for me was
(20:09):
to not have to make.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Decisions, would you say, just kind of being pressient there,
you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like if my mom would just come over and be
like we're going to go on a walk like that,
that would be really nice. Or help me clean my
apartment stuff like yeah, just being present like it's it's
not in anyone else's place the responsibility to fix it.
And I think if you can understand that and then
see like, oh, but I can help in this way,
or I can like take them to therapy, or just
(20:37):
be supportive emotionally supportive as they're going through treatment like that.
I don't know if people realize how much of a
difference that makes, but for me, it was huge.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And that's really what I always say. But hearing it
come from somebody deals with it, it's more powerful because
it's like, Okay, well they understand you have depression, and
people listening to this episode are going to understand, now, okay, listen,
well this is what Grace is telling us that, you know, hey,
this is what worked for me. Try these things, you know.
I mean, this is coming from somebody that deals with you, you know,
and you said, treatment wise, So are you doing ketamine
(21:07):
for your depression?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I have, I haven't done it in a while.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
So do you want to kind of touch on a
little bit for somebody what it's like, you know, just
so they have a feeling for what it is. Because
a lot of people hear the names of these things,
they have no idea what they actually are.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah. Yeah, So I there's two versions of ketamine treatment
ones asketamine and that's like a nasal spray, and then
the one I did it was infusion, so it was
like I was hooked up to an IV And they
say that one is more powerful. But what drew me
to ketamine is the fact that it can kind of
(21:40):
be like magic almost. I had heard people would have
one session and then they would no longer have like
suicide ideation and their depression would lift, like really considerably,
and that sounded really appealing when like medications can take
like a month to start having any effect, and for me,
I get a lot of side effects.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
So I was gonna get into that too, the side effecting.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yep, yeah, yeah, So ketamine just sounded really exciting. I
remember when I first learned about it, I like sent
it to my mom and I was like, can you
imagine if we had access to this or if we
knew about this? So then I was like, well, it
is coming back like the depression. Well, it's like, I'm
just going to try this. It's an option. It's actually
available to me now that I'm living here, and I
(22:27):
want to do it. It is. It's very expensive though,
it's not covered by insurance.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's like we're supposed to have insurance, but it doesn't
cover the shit hardly. It's like, yeah, so what's the
point of this ship then if it doesn't cover ninety
percent of things I need? What the hell's the point.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Of you, right, Yeah, yeah, so I they recommend an
initial like package of six sessions, and for me, they
said that I should be doing two a week because
of the severity of my symptoms. Otherwise you do one
every week, but I did two, and you basically can't
like work afterwards or anything. So I needed to take
(23:02):
a lot of stick time. Yeah, but yeah, in the
actual process, I could just run through that quick. They
started by weighing me. That was how they figured out
my dose, and then just you sit in like a
nice darkish room. I bent to two clinics and they
both had like just very comfy, cozy feeling, and yeah,
I just got an IV put in and then I
(23:24):
got anti nausea medications because the I guess kindamine can
make you throw up. So I had that and then
they would just start the effusion. You need to have
I didn't know this, but you need to have music
without words that is like the top piece of advice
and like cheerful music, if that makes sense, like upbeat. Yeah,
(23:45):
music that like totally dictated the whole experience. For me.
It was my music.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, so what did you what music did you use?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It was there's a few playlists on Spotify, even like
Kedymine Infusion song and they're kind of like a cereal Yeah,
So I would do those yeah, and it starts like
they kind of drip it, so it comes on slow,
and then I would just yeah, go into full association.
(24:12):
And I had expected kind of to like see things
and maybe be like working through trauma or memories and
like revisiting things. But for me, I was either like
flying around in my mind or I would see people
like I saw my mom but I didn't know she
was my mom, but I did this. It was strange.
It was basically like your dreaming is what I would
(24:33):
say if it was like you're dreaming and it's like
reality totally slips away. It doesn't feel like I could
picture where we had parked and stuff, and I was like,
but that's not my car anymore, and like we're not
we're not on earth anymore. Yeah, and yeah, my first
session was kind of spooky because I didn't have the
right music.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
God, what did you pick up with the first session?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I yeah, I had stuff cued up and it was
like right before I put my AirPod in and I said,
that doesn't have words right, And I was like it does,
so I panicked and like picked a rain song rain sounds,
so then I saw myself. I was like in a
dark rain and it was really scary.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Grease is like I'm tripping balls to man, I don't
know what's going on. This is not great.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah yeah, and then yeah, second session, I figured out
the music thing that helps. I actually though I got
dosed too high the second time, so that was shit.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Okay, So is it more intensive a feeling then yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And I think with that like because kind I mean,
they use it before surgery too, to like knock you out,
so I think that's what I just like fell asleep
and I remember like getting woken up by them shaking me.
And so the next session they got it figured out,
so we reached a good like middle ground and I
did that yeah, six times total.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
So how did you feel afterwards these sessions? Did you
feel like it was doing something for you? Did your
mood feel like it lift it up a bit? I
know they say to take off the day afterwards, you know,
and things like that, but how were you feeling afterwards?
Did you feel like it was getting somewhere?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I really didn't, And like I would say, I don't
feel like it ever made anything worse. It felt like
be like doing something, like trying to make it better.
But I definitely didn't get the like, wow, everything's so
much better. Like I It's like I maybe that did something.
And one of my I got two like booster sessions
(26:27):
in the months afterwards. One of those felt like it
did something. But what I've seen is there's seventy percent
of people respond like really well to ketamine and then
thirty percent don't. So I was hoping i'd get into
the seventy percent, but I think I was in thirty.
And again, I don't feel like it hurt, but I
don't think I would do it again, especially for this.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, and after that trip, you know, actually put on
some rage against the machine. I could really imagine what
that would be like, God just start tripping balls. Toberella
screaming in the background. So we're at the part of
the show. I don't know if you ever seen anyse
episodes about I asked two important questions everybody just a
little fun ones. Okay, So the first one is credit
to a good friend of mine shows a podcast called
The Shit That Goes On in Our Heads? So Grace
(27:08):
if you're bent to halt. Had a song, what would
it be out a song? Yeah, it had a song, Yep,
any song you can think of it. It could be
the first song that comes to mind. As soon as
that questions asked.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You, the first thing that came to mind is I
think it's called the Night We Met or Haron.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Don't know that one. I'll to check it out though.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So we've had mentioned answers earlier. It was my last
guest he said, what do you see some song by
the doors? And then we've had Rage against the Machine
come up as one of them. I had a forty
year old Middle Eastern woman and tell me beat It
by Michael Jackson. So it's it's always interesting to hear
what people have to say about things like that too,
you know, because it's it gets really interesting because people
are like, oh damn, this is a great question. Because
(27:48):
when I was asked, I had two different songs, Like
I said, I can't I can't think of the name
of the band. But it's if you're seeing it's that
movie Scott Pilgrim, the beginning intro song that they're playing
that it's like when my anxiety's high, that would be
how you describe anxiety to people, just completely all over
the place, just one constant, steady, you know. And then
if it was my depression kicks in, it's leave a
light on, talk with it dark by popa roach, it
(28:09):
would have been in it. But there's also another one.
It's called a Different Kind of Pain by Cold. It
was one of the last songs they did before the
band took a break because it was a song dedicated
to one of their fans who lost somebody, and it
was like this like ten minute long song and it's
just really soft and everything else like that too, you know.
But in the background you hear like the rain, noises
and things going on. So it's a lot going on
there because my anxiety feeds my depression a lot of times.
(28:32):
And then you know, vice versa and things like that too.
So like my my brain goes a thousand miles an hours.
So the next question and all important question of why
this podcast is if you could break the stigma about
mental health. Okay, when I say that, I mean things
that you see on the internet that just piss you off,
Like you see something like that's just not right, man.
Stop stop lying to people. What would you would you
(28:54):
say it would be.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Mm hm I yeah, I would say it's it's mis
conception of like just ask for help and like yes,
but that's in my experience that's been like just one
half of it. Like I did ask for help and
they never called me back, you know, Like it's I
don't think people realize the landscape of getting treatment right now,
(29:17):
and how I think it needs to shift from it's
all on you to ask for help into like it's
kind of a group effort. I would say, like your
support system. If they understood the treatment landscape, it would
make more sense to be like we're going to help
you find multiple options, help you call all of them
and come up with a plan for when you're waiting.
(29:38):
It's like I've never just gotten right in anywhere besides
like the hospital, you know. So that was my huge frustration,
and each time that I experienced depression and needed treatment,
it was like like I literally they would not call
me back.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Is this escape art? That's like you're calling for help
and then you won't call you back. Or it's like
those people that tell you, hey, Grace, call me if
you need something, and then you call them and they
don't answer to goddamn phone. It's like, you know, pick
up the damn phone.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Mm hm. So I think that that can kind of
stigmatize people who are struggling and not in treatment. It's like,
I bet you that they're thinking about it and maybe trying,
but it's it can be so hard to reach out
at all, and then when you do not have them
pick off. That's I think that should not like be legal.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know, Like, yeah, because I had somebody that said
they called somebody that basically the person that told them
to call them said, Oh, I'm too busy to talk
to you right now, even though I'm calling you to
tell you there's a problem. You know, I'm telling you
there's an issue, and it's it's it's scary because it's like,
you know, all the people always say that and everything
they say that cringe because I'm like, oh, but are
you really going to answer the fucking phone? Somebody calls you,
like they tell somebody else that too, and I'm just
(30:44):
that's the thought first thought it comes to mind. It's like,
are you gonna really say something? Are you really gonna
answer the phone, or are you gonna just gonna ignore me?
That's the real question. You start thinking, you know, my
anxiety will take off and be like, yeah, are they
gonna call? I don't know if they're gonna answer. If
I call them, I call this person, I know for
sure my people will answer. Or if I call they,
this is my call. They're calling me right back. Is
I don't call many people ten thousand times or anything
like that. I'll call you and if I call you,
(31:06):
especially my buddy in California. He's on a different time
zone than we are, so he's two ours behind, so
he knows if I'm calling him at like one o'clock
my time in the morning, like what is it, Like
it's eleven his time. He knows something's up. He answers,
or he'll call me back or text me like yo,
heyne me know, he'll do some kind of response. He'll
he'll message me or something. He's basic, Hey, let me
give a call you back just a second. You know,
he knows I'm calling him, though. But that's a great
(31:26):
thing about a support system for people that don't know
what that is, and you know that's that's the safe
plan that Grace is referring to, is that having these
people she could reach out to if she needs to,
you know, and things like that too. So let me
ask you this question, though, do you do you spend
a lot of time on social media?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
No?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Okay, so you may not have seen this. Then this guy,
I can't think of what his account name is, but
he was on Instagram. He went on and lily told
people that depression is not real. Okay, says it's not real.
It says it's just a mindset that you're you're locked
in and that you can you can fix it easy.
I'm like, hmm, god stop. So you know, and the
(32:02):
problem with the thing I'm afraid with social media is
I feel like these people that are afraid to ask
for help are getting the wrong information. And you're seeing
these idiots say these things or the guided what is
he he said water doesn't hydrate you or something. I
was just like, oh God, please stop fucking stop, God,
please stop. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's a
scary place out there. So if you want to go
(32:23):
ahead and tell a body a little bit about recovery
dot com, what is it exactly you all do there?
You know, just give them a little feel for what
it is. Maybe maybe it'll be helpful to somebody.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, it's a website that helps you find addiction, mental
health treatment and like eating disorders, behavioral addictions.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Is it for all states though? Is it just kind
of a broad station tells you who falls in you're
saying things like that too.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yep. It's worldwide, so you can search by like location,
what condition you need treatment for your insurance, on the
level of care that you want, even like amenity, cell
phone access. And then what I help too is we
have a really like robust they called a resource library,
so it's articles on different conditions and like how to
(33:09):
help people. So they're focused both on like helping the
person looking for treatment and then helping them their supports us.
So I love it them.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I have to add that to my toolkit done things,
because I'd also have one that's called help hub dot org,
help hub dot co. Sorry it was it was done
by a psychiatrist name Lisha Sugarman, so.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
She has we're partnered with them.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, that's right, you're right. You're right. That's awesome though,
because like I said, that was originally my big toolkit.
Now got recovery dot Com added too, because she had
mentioned how you guys were in a partnership and you
were and she didn't really announce it, but she was
telling me a little bit about it, so and then
she she finally could release it and tell everybody about it.
So it's really cool to see though, that you guys
are networking together to help bring and especially the thing
(33:50):
of helping other people that need to know what to
do in these situations like hey, and go there and
look up whatever whatever it is like you deal with
or somebody else is dealing with and these other things.
And it's a great resource. So I have to add
it to definitely to my list of things that just
suggest that people listen. Hey, you the recovery dot com.
There's this one there. Cana's got mined, might need dot
core there's really good, you know, and things like that.
(34:11):
You So it's really cool what you're doing. Man, it's awesome. Yeah,
you know, especially you know somebody that deals with you know,
depression and things like that too. You know, you're you're
really making a difference, I feel, you know, because you're
giving people the resources that they didn't have ten years ago,
all these years ago. And you know, Lisa's work too
is really great. And now that you guys are together,
and you're just kind of super charging each other. Now
now you're really getting an extended grab of everybody, and
(34:33):
you know other things like that too. So we appreciate
everything to do and I appreciate you coming in though
and talking to us today. You'll have to give us
updatea on the boyfriend so we can know we had
a harassment or no. If he messes up boyfriend you,
I notice all We're all better to go ryder. We're
gonna get you. But anyways, Grace. With that being said,
we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete for Anxiety.
Do you want to go ahead and plug everybody where
they can find you the case they want to comes
(34:55):
give you some rug supplies. Say, hey, listen, I heard
you on Pete for Sonxiety, or heard you on Rocket Recovery,
all these the great places you've been. Where's the best
place for people to reach you.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, I've got a Instagram. I usually I use it
mostly for my like writing, creative writing that I do.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
But it's what are you writing over there?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Brother?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We have to cut you off.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's I've written a young adult dystopian and I'm working
on finishing another one, so well.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Don't pretty plug it to where if you plug Instagram,
the plug to find it too, because I support all
things that people do.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It's called Gilded Eagles. It's on Amazon and my Instagram
is writer dot Grace Josephine and I've got it linked there.
But I post about the conferences and go to and stuff,
so you'll be able to see some of that too.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh it's cool. So so real quick, before we wrap up,
we want to know about the book.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You can't just drop a book name and I tell
us a little bit about it. Come on now, So
what's what's the first book about? And give us a
little preview? What's the next one? Is? Is the series
is basically a series you're working on.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
They're split the first one. It's basically the theme is
like redemption forgiveness, So it's it's about a girl who
basically thinks something has happened, something terrible has happened to
her family, and then what she does to kind of
even the score, and then what she does when she
realizes that she kind of became who she meant to
(36:18):
destroy is how i'd say it.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
A lot of like I really like like unexpected allies
family betrayally then, so it was it helped me work
through a lot of things in my whole life.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, so the second book, what is this one take off?
Is it leading from the last one, or is this
a whole nother story we're going into.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, it's a it's a whole new story. So it's
a I would say, like post apocalyptic fantasy. It's got
it's I'm trying to think if I could remember mine.
We just made like log lines, like a one sentence
summary in the class that I'm in. I think, okay,
it was two gifted teens. Anyway, it's it's two teenagers
that each have a gift, like a world saving gift.
(36:58):
And the story is basically they just find out like
there's there's a rebellion, there's like people who want to
kidnap them, and then the emperors who are in charge
of everything like aren't actually super good people. And I
had one of the characters she's a good girl. She
kind of has all this pressure to keep people alive
because she has like water as a power and.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Kind of like Avatar the Last Airbender, the different elemental
powers and things just kind of yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, and just kind of her descent into madness pretty
much as the pressure gets to be too much. So
it's been very interesting. I'm on draft too, so there's
a lot that I'll probably change, but.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
No timeline when it's coming out, so you know, we
keep people clip hanging.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, I'm really I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Give us updated then you just let someone when it
comes out. Then that way I can update the show
notes and let people know, hey, listen, it's available now everywhere,
you know, and well so you can always tag me
in it too, and I'll share it out and all
that kind of stuff. I'm very supportive of other people,
you know. And maybe eventually I'll get my book written.
You know, it's called Man. Yeah, this feels like highchool
I've changed the title. It was originally gonna be the
Voice of the Voice List, but now it just kind
(38:03):
of liked the name. Man. This feels like high schools. Well,
I'm gonna call it though, I mean my self titled
memoir about my you know, a lot of things I
don't tell people. There's I tell people a little bit
about myself and not a lot. There's a lot more
to Pete than people realize, you know, the inner dialogue
and the thoughts I have in my head and stuff.
It's just I got to get around to write it. Eventually,
you know, it'll lit'll happen.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Well, that being said, guys, we're gonna wrap up this
episode of Pete for Society. Grace, thank you so much
for coming. I appreciate you coming hang out with us,
you know, give us a little more information, you know.
Thank you for sharing your story. I know it's hard
for a lot of people to come and tell their
stories and things like that too. You know, you know
somebody's gonna hear it and be like, oh damn, well,
I agree with Grace. I'm right there, and then you
never know, they'll reach out me. They'll check out the
books too and be like, hey, listen to like what
you got. You know, it could be a future future
(38:41):
bestseller for all we know that'd mean awesome. Well, guys,
that's so they're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete
for Anxiety. Guys, you know where to find me. I'm
on X all way done to TikTok. Yeah, I'm everywhere.
I'm on Spotify down to Pandora Radio now as well, guys.
And as I always say, it cost something absolutely not
to be kind to somebody. One kind act you could do,
could say sometime's live for hell, can you make their day?
I'm pete for so anxiety sign out saying don't ask
how your days? They say, hey, how's your mental health?
(39:03):
So I haven't I break my neck. It's the time
to reflected the night for Dack for never will die,
for the prince of a text, and gout my integrity
in my word.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
My brother died
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