September 2, 2025 • 25 mins
Reality Bytes is back! In this episode, Tim, Tom, Megan, and Sean dive deep into DEXOps—the practice of operationalizing Digital Employee Experience. Building on insights from the show's recent webinar series, the team explores how IT leaders can shift from reactive firefighting to a proactive, structured approach that drives measurable business value. They cover the key pillars of DEXOps—from people development and process rigor to technology selection, communication strategies, and leadership alignment. You’ll hear why DEXOps isn’t a side project or “hobby,” but a mission-critical discipline, as essential as security or uptime. Whether you’re a lean IT team looking for efficiencies or a mature organization ready to scale, this conversation breaks down the theory and practice behind making DEX real in day-to-day operations. Plus, get a preview of upcoming webinars and certifications to help you build your own DEXOps journey.
Check out episode 1 of the DEXOps webinar series on demand hereÂ
Check out episode 2 of the DEXOps webinar series on demand here
Register for episode 3 LIVE here
Get the latest edition of the Gartner Magic Quadrant here (https://nexthink.com/gartner-magic-quadrant-dex)
Book your tickets for Nexthink Experience (Boston or London) here: https://nexthink.com/experience
Check out episode 1 of the DEXOps webinar series on demand hereÂ
Check out episode 2 of the DEXOps webinar series on demand here
Register for episode 3 LIVE here
Get the latest edition of the Gartner Magic Quadrant here (https://nexthink.com/gartner-magic-quadrant-dex)
Book your tickets for Nexthink Experience (Boston or London) here: https://nexthink.com/experience
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome it, change Makers to the deck Show with Tim
Flower and Tom McGraw.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hello, change Makers, Welcome back to the Deck Show. Show
within a show. It's reality bites, It's the panel edition.
It's been a while because I hope everybody's been enjoying
the Parallel series. Downloads would seem to suggest that it was.
It was keenly followed Tim, I think you've definitely got
some some some parallel addicts out there, and uh, and
(00:32):
we suddenly enjoyed participating in it.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Yeah. It was a fun, little deviation from the norm,
a little campy, a little corny, but love to have
the whole team participating in like Megan. Like Megan said
one time, it helps you exercise your your theater kid chops.
So it was a fun little thing. We'll see if
we'll see if we pick it up some other time
as well. But it was fun.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You and Meghan the real deal when it comes to
fat kid jobs, whereas the rest of us. It was
a question of encountering how few fear to kid shops
we had, but we got we got Megan and showing
of us Hi Megan, hoy Dan Hi Tim.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hi, Tim, I'm good and I'm excited to be back
on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Lovely, isn't it Sean, How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Great?
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Glad to be back. Hello everyone, good show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Good show. So as as some listeners will know, Tim
and I we've been doing we've been running a summer
webinar series on dexops and we've had we've we've done
two installments of this so far. We've had Edward Jones
and we've had dance Gate Bank. We've covered, along with
a lot of Tim's insights, we've been talking about the
(01:40):
sort of real world application of theory of dexops in
these digital workplaces. And so far Tim we've covered we've
covered the technology, the technology selection process, and team structure
and implementation right. And we thought we would both give
a little bit of a plug for this series, which
we'll have links to in the show notes, and there's
(02:02):
the third installment coming soon. We'll show you how to
register for that also, but also do a little bit
of a recap for people who don't necessarily have time
to attend all of those long interviews and give a
bit of an overview. So, Tim, you're kind of an architect,
I would say, a key thought leader in the deskop
space to save the least, and you've been laying out
(02:23):
some of those are some of your thoughts and some
of the design of dexops in those presentations, but maybe
just a level set will maybe give a definition and
explain why this matters so much of the moment yees.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
So it's actually it's been a it's been another fun
if I can use that word again, exercise here at
next Think because it's very much a collaboration, working hand
in hand with our services teams who actually do a
lot of this consulting and implementation. But essentially it boils
(02:58):
down to this. For decades it environments have been built
around this react and respond model, waiting for tickets, chasing incidents,
firefighting problems, and they've already disrupted employees. But having become
a next Thing customer myself years ago and turning the
lights on across the enterprise, you recognize that it changes everything.
(03:20):
And I think what we've seen over the last at
least after the last ten years since I've been here,
people are more and more understanding what the implication is
of dex what dex is. It's about employee experience and
the digital world. But the questions that we've gotten routinely
are how do I operationalize it? How do I make
it real? I get the technology, I get what I
(03:41):
can do with it, but how do I actually work
it into my organization? Dex is really just a set
of outcomes of a technology platform. So we developed what
I think will become an industry standard for adopting decks.
We called it decks OPS, and you can think of
it as applying the rigor of your security operations center
(04:02):
or your network command center, but with one key difference
in centered on operationalizing digital employee experience rather than implementing
and operationalizing individual technology silos. DESKSOPS is about the structure,
about proactive monitoring and automation and measurable value value, and
(04:22):
it's built on, as we've outlined in our webinars, several
pillars to drive that success.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Let's start with ventin what we discussed in some detail
with Edward Jones with Tim McCormick there, which is people development.
How can organizations realign their existing IT roles and teams
without increasing headcount or creating large scale reorganization, and what
pitfalls should they be looking to avoid when introducing that
(04:52):
sort of structural decks first mindset that you just laid
out there for us.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So I think one of the biggest misconceptions about decks
and dexops is that it requires this big reorg or
added staff. How many people do I have to hire?
In reality, and it was my case as well, most
organizations already have the people and the talent they need.
It's about changing the focus of those roles and changing
(05:20):
that focus over time and aligned with outcome based an
outcomes based roadmap. So I'll give you an example. A
helped USK technician who today spends all their time firefighting
tickets can be given that real time visibility to find
and fix those issues before they show up in the queue,
or at least as part of that activity. When the
(05:42):
ticket comes in. Don't just fix one, go fix a thousand,
because you've got the visibility of who else is suffering.
A desktop support engineer can move from manually taking escalations
or packaging software to monitoring the deployments and monitoring the
adoption and automating fixes to those issues at scale across
(06:03):
the enterprise. So those are the kinds of shifts that
create impact without adding headcount, but that add up over time.
And as you create capacity, you can shift more resources
onto that proactive team. In terms of pitfalls, the real
pitfall is treating it like a side project. I talk
about the fact that decks and dex ops is not
(06:24):
a hobby. You're not building birdhouses in the garage and
when something burns in the kitchen you run in to
fix that problem. And no one's building birdhouses anymore. You
can't treat it like a hobby. It's not something you
just bolt on. If it's not embedded in your daily ops,
your old happid habits of chasing those tickets are going
(06:45):
to dominate. And another pitfall, I would say, is only
focusing and we talk about this in the webinar series,
is only focusing on the tools, standing up dashboards without
reskilling people or adjusting processes, just reinforce versus the same
old problem. So it really is about rebalancing responsibilities, equipping
(07:06):
people with better data, and then putting structure around what they.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Do amazing, and they're also going to inherit a lot
of if you kind of touched upon it there, but
antiquated manual processes, these need to be modernized. Right. What
are the key steps to making sure they're also fit
for purpose inside those newly reorientated teams.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I think it's all about It's all about the operational rigor,
similar to what we see in the security OP center
or network app center. It really is critical to have
processes around what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
The reason rigor is critical, it's simple. Employee experience has
to be a mission critical as mission critical as security
or system up time. Nobody would ever say let's go
dabble in security operations, right, it has to be part
of it has to have rigor around it. And the
same is true for deck shops and the automation you're creating.
(08:11):
If employees can't work effectively, the productivity and customer service
operations grind to a halt. So when decksops is not
focused on with that rigor, you're going to end up
with half baked results. A dashboard here, a script, there,
maybe a survey. Everybody kind of doing their own thing
(08:32):
with the tool that they were given, but there's no accountability,
there's no ownership, there's no measurable outcomes. It turns into
another it experiment in instead of a discipline. So the
real differentiator is process and structure. DESKSOPS has to be
woven into your daily workflow. You need clear responsibilities, escalation
(08:53):
paths KPIs, and you've got to be solving defined problems.
You always have to be asking why am I doing this?
What is this contributing to? It gets very easy to
get lost in the technology and lose track of why
you're creating certain pieces of automation and how they contribute.
Without all of that structure, you're just adding noise to
(09:16):
an already reactive model.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And talk about those career opportunities that the dexops properly implement.
It can open up for people new skill sets, new
career vistas, and somebody who's had a kind of you know,
somebody whose work you might want to look up is
our own Sean Malvey. Who who who is the architect
behind our deck certification series something an announcement not unrelated
(09:45):
to this dexhops discussion for those certification series coming soon,
I think, Sean, But for now, maybe we could get
your your insight into the technology selection process. It's obviously
key to get the desired outcomes. Tim and I were
able to talk to the gentleman at Danscape Bank about
this specific topic. But what's your perspective Shoan.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, I think so. I think there's a lot of
challenges that folks will encounter when it comes to technology selection.
And one thing to keep in mind is like finding
something between like balancing breadth versus like depth of capabilities.
So sometimes people can find themselves in a snag when
they find something that's really deep in one area but
shallow and the others. And then another issue is just
(10:31):
like making sure your tools integrate well across the ecosystem.
So like without open APIs and a strong integration, it's
all those decks insights you can pull kind of remain siloed.
So that's a big problem that you have to look
out for. And I mean there's a slew of other
challenges that teams face, but I think one thing is like,
(10:53):
although it's down to selecting the tool, it's almost impossible
to make any changes if you don't have a mindset
shift first, like Tim is alluding to, like you have
to kind of have the full team and department buy
into it, into what you're doing and why. It's almost
like akin to like a sports team, like they have
a philosophy behind why they're doing certain things, and that
(11:13):
is almost like more important than the individual players or
to stick in the metaphor tools that they have at
their disposal.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Value, realization and tracking have to be front and center. Short,
I mean, it has long been seen as a cost
center effectively, So how does dexops provide the structure to
in your view, translate improved employee experience into measurable business value.
What kind of KPIs or metrics in your view best
demonstrate the impact or can best demonstrate the impact of
(11:46):
decksops to senior leadership.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Yeah, and I think this is the most powerful part,
at least for me, that I love about a dexof
structure and team because it really is able to translate
like huge outcomes and trace it all the way back
to like individual decisions and changes that are made within
the IT department and behind the scenes. So the biggest
outcomes that are going to make a big impact, like
(12:10):
in the boardroom or productivity hours saved, employee satisfaction scores,
you can track like obviously the stuff that's really important
to it, which is like ticket count and MTTR. But
there's also a way with this system to again look
at like time saved, time saved and time lost equations
(12:30):
the DEX score as well, Like we've seen it with
customers that correlate strongly with an improvement, and a DEX
score correlates with like a reduction.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
And time lost.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
And there's ways to calculate these things and prove that
it's not just a gut feeling. Another thing that you
can also do with this is like tag it to
your NPS score. So looking at like do you have
high employee engagement rates with the actions that it is
take making. These are all things that just make it
(13:03):
very tangible and clear when you're in a high level
either a boardroom or a high level meeting with your
managers and directors.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Absolutely, And Megan, you've already been a you know, slurred
as a fat kid here, I'm sure, so, I don't know,
not slid, proud, proud quiet.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I went to university originally as a theater major.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So not just any university, Meghan, listeners, Okay, very distinguished.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
One in California, But yeah, in California, I.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Was a theater kid exent. So on the on the
matter of communication, I suppose communication across the enterprise, it's
also a must. Culture change is often often harder than
technical change, which has been the sort of underlying theme
throughout everything Tim and I've been doing around decktops this summer.
(14:00):
What communication strategies do you consider to be most effective
in getting those business leaders, IT, staff and employees themselves
aligned around dex per se.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I am actually thrilled that this question got thrown to
me because not only because I'm a theater kid, but
also because I think this can be from when I
talk to our customers when they're getting ready to present
at our experience events coming up in just a few
weeks here. This seems to be one of the more
challenging pieces of dex stops, I think for people who
maybe work in IT and are more familiar with working
(14:34):
with technology than you having to work with people. And
I think especially when DEX is a net new function
for your organization, you're getting new data, it's a new
way of thinking, as you say, culture change. You can
meet a lot of resistance if you don't have a
strategy for how to communicate your project. And so if
(14:54):
you're going, let's say, to the security team or to
the network team and saying, hey, this problem it's because
of you, It's because of your system, it can feel
like you're pointing finger at them and saying, this is
your problem, right, You're the one to blame. So you
have to figure out a way to communicate the things
that you're seeing in the data and the things that
(15:15):
are possible from the data in a way that feels
like you're empowering them and maybe even letting them think
it was their idea to solve it that way in
the first place. Finding out ways to sort of bring
the data to them and say what do you think
this is? Saying what do you think this is indicating?
(15:35):
And then you know, when you have those wins from
the data with those sort of teams in partnership, don't
gatekeep it, but share right, share those wins out let
them maybe even take some of the credit for the win.
And by sharing aggressively those wins across these teams, you'll
find more use cases. They'll start to come to you
and say, hey, you have this new data, can we
(15:57):
see this? Can we solve this? Like what about This
can actually help you mature because it'll help you find
those the next use case. I think when it comes
to leadership, and this echoes what Sean was just saying,
it comes down to learning to speak their language, right,
what does your leadership care about what matters to your business,
to your enterprise? Do they want employees to be more productive?
(16:19):
Are they just focused on reducing costs? Is there a
big M and a strategy happening this year? DEX can
support all of those initiatives. It's your job to figure
out how and then communicate that to leadership. And then
when you start to get those wins, share those wins aggressively,
just like Shaun was saying in their language, and you'll
start to get that buy in and maybe get more
(16:42):
investment in your project. And then finally employees, I think
with them as an employee and not someone who works
in it, clear communication, you know, let them know what
DEX is, it's something that's making their life easier, and
what it's not. Right, it's not spyware. We're not paying
attention to how many hours a day you're working. And
(17:02):
then put in place a governance model so you're not
overwhelming them, especially if you're using campaigns. Right, you don't
want all of a sudden, a billion pop ups on
their computer all day. You want them to feel like
DEX is there to help them and it's only telling
them things they need to know in the moment. And
then I guess one extra thought would be AI.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
AI is obviously taking over the deck space as it's
taking over everything else. And when you're thinking about communicating
AI in dex with your employees, it's all about empowering them, right,
whether it's through self service or helping them, you know,
use AI in a better way. You're just focused on
communicating that you're there to help them.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Brilliant. Last question for you, Megan. Obviously, the whole approach
that Tim's laid out for decks oops, here and elsewhere
is a very holistic, system systematic one. But do you
think it can be done in your view, kind of
a bit piecemeal, Like can you do one pillar process
(18:00):
at the time of able to stand up on their own?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You think, interesting question. I. You can get a project
up and running with just one pillar at a time,
but it's not going to see the success that you're
hoping for. You'll end up spinning your wheels twice as fast,
but you're only gonna get half as far right. You're
(18:25):
gonna have to work extra hard. You're not going to
see as much of an outcome. I think the dexkop structure.
As Tim has outlined it, It's a lot of work
up front, but it's worth it because then you can
just start spinning up use case after use case after
use case because you have that firm structure in place
to be able to be successful. I think without it,
you run the risk of your dex project failing, losing
(18:47):
that buy in from leadership, losing that buy in from
the teams you need to work with, and just sort
of seeing the whole thing kind of peter out. So
I would say it's worth it to invest in the
full dexop structure.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Oh so, yeah, I hope people have got a good
sort of overview from that. Tim. Anything we haven't covered
here that you want.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
To want to Yeah, I think maybe let's take a
couple of minutes and just kind of throw throw the
ball around the horn, as they say, and I'll throw
it to you, Tom what And I get this a
lot too? And I'm traveling a lot of organizations that
we talk with are really just struggling to keep their
head above water, right, I just need to keep the
lights on. I don't have time to take on anything new.
(19:29):
Is dexkops only realistic for mature It shops with resources
or can a lean overworked team start on this journey?
What does a minimum viable dexops look like? What's Tom?
What's I'll play questionnaire question around this on what are
your what are your.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Thoughts on it? Inquisitor? A lean over stressed team not
only can think in terms of dexops and think about
that mindset shift, they should be thinking of those tents
because it will. The whole eflus here is to create efficiencies.
It means you stop flying blind effectively, So start measuring
(20:12):
the basics of your employees experience, act on one or
two high impact fixes that you can identify, and start
to create those efficiencies. Now, will those efficiencies be at
the same scale, of the same level of meaning and
appreciation as you would find at a big, shiny it shop.
The answer is perhaps not, John, what.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you think? It's really a combination and the question
is really in relation to a combination of decks and
dex ops operationalizing the function. But what are your thoughts
about busy teams versus those with resources?
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well, I think like maybe even to simplify it more,
one thing can just be near term in a quarter
or even a month, How quick do you want to
improve how you react to problems? And then a more
matured x OPS team, regardless of the size, you can
move into another stage of like how quickly do you
want to predict and automate those issues and just push
(21:08):
it off your plate entirely? And that's how, you know,
if I were to simplify it, that's how I would
explain it to someone that it's kind of like, how
quickly do you want to react to the same issues
you see versus like later in a year, five years
from now, whatever it is. You know, how quickly do
you want to like predict those problems and get ahead
of it before they even arrive as a ticket at
(21:28):
your desk?
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Yeah, I think the I think the overworked teams, the
lean teams actually get greater benefit from this than the
teams with resources. Teams with resources, it's easy to just say, hey,
I'm going to let Joe take care of this issue.
I have people to do this. I don't need the
tool or the capability. The overworked teams are the ones
that really need it because they have fewer resources to
(21:50):
begin with. But Megan, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I would agree with you, Tim. I think there's
a big benefit for a smaller and leaner team to
doing this because ultimately what DEX and DEX aps leads
you to his efficiency. And just a moment ago, when
Tom asked me about you know, communication strategies, a lot
of what I said came specifically from my conversations with
(22:16):
our customer at Kim Lee Horn, who was a DEX
team of one and set up a whole DEX pillar,
communicated with his leadership, communicated across teams and got you know,
a lot of wins and a lot of benefit from
DEX again being a team of one. So I think,
you know, it speaks for itself, like it that being
a lean team doesn't prevent you from seeing the outcomes.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Of this at all. Absolutely, and Tim, we should direct
people to the series if they want to go a
little a little deeper into any of these given topics.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Right, Yeah, we've got a great We've got a great
series running, and I do think there's opportunity to explore
this series maybe on a second pass with some some
other people, but you know, we've got we've got a
great set. You they're they're on demand. You can go
back and listen to them anytime. But yeah, that's uh,
that's in the show notes. We'll put some links to
(23:15):
h to what's out there for people to listen to.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
And you can join us live for the next one
as well. I think at this point, which is going
to be with Senteen, and it's going to be about
that transition to a sort of more proactive service desk
and what do you think we're going to cover their
in particular team.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I think Centeen is one of our more mature customers.
I'm really interested to. I'm always interested to hear how
a customer has operationalized on the front lines at both
service desk and you know, I think some people lump
service desk in as being the level two and level
three support folks as well, but I'm really interested to
talk with them about operationally, how the function has has
(23:59):
spread across teams and some of their some of their
wins that they get out of it. So it should
be a good it should be a good.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Session, fantastic, So join us for that one, and we
hope to see some of you in the chat and
also going to put links to as you as to
mention the previous on demand webinars that we've done. Also
Shawn's incredible dex certification series. You'll be able to sit
those for yourself. If you're looking to get that head
start in your in your workplace, be a lean one
(24:25):
or an advanced one and you'll find something useful there.
And look, we're back now. Reality Bites is back. We've
had We've had our our show PTO if you will,
our dramatic holiday, and you can expect normal programming to resume.
More panel shows, more interview shows with great next thinkers
that will begin to will resume again in two weeks time.
(24:48):
We've got some great guests lined up and we're looking forward.
We'll welcome Ariana and Dina back as well very soon,
and we're looking forward to seeing you all very very soon.
So thank you so much everybody, and I will see
you in two weeks time.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Make sure that you never miss an episode.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your
favorite podcast player, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts,
make sure to leave a rating.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Of the show.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Just tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves.
If you'd like to learn more about how Next Thing
can help me improve your digital employee experience, head over
to nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time.
Welcome it, change Makers to the deck Show with Tim
Flower and Tom McGraw.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hello, change Makers, Welcome back to the Deck Show. Show
within a show. It's reality bites, It's the panel edition.
It's been a while because I hope everybody's been enjoying
the Parallel series. Downloads would seem to suggest that it was.
It was keenly followed Tim, I think you've definitely got
some some some parallel addicts out there, and uh, and
(00:32):
we suddenly enjoyed participating in it.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Yeah. It was a fun, little deviation from the norm,
a little campy, a little corny, but love to have
the whole team participating in like Megan. Like Megan said
one time, it helps you exercise your your theater kid chops.
So it was a fun little thing. We'll see if
we'll see if we pick it up some other time
as well. But it was fun.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You and Meghan the real deal when it comes to
fat kid jobs, whereas the rest of us. It was
a question of encountering how few fear to kid shops
we had, but we got we got Megan and showing
of us Hi Megan, hoy Dan Hi Tim.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hi, Tim, I'm good and I'm excited to be back
on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Lovely, isn't it Sean, How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Great?
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Glad to be back. Hello everyone, good show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Good show. So as as some listeners will know, Tim
and I we've been doing we've been running a summer
webinar series on dexops and we've had we've we've done
two installments of this so far. We've had Edward Jones
and we've had dance Gate Bank. We've covered, along with
a lot of Tim's insights, we've been talking about the
(01:40):
sort of real world application of theory of dexops in
these digital workplaces. And so far Tim we've covered we've
covered the technology, the technology selection process, and team structure
and implementation right. And we thought we would both give
a little bit of a plug for this series, which
we'll have links to in the show notes, and there's
(02:02):
the third installment coming soon. We'll show you how to
register for that also, but also do a little bit
of a recap for people who don't necessarily have time
to attend all of those long interviews and give a
bit of an overview. So, Tim, you're kind of an architect,
I would say, a key thought leader in the deskop
space to save the least, and you've been laying out
(02:23):
some of those are some of your thoughts and some
of the design of dexops in those presentations, but maybe
just a level set will maybe give a definition and
explain why this matters so much of the moment yees.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
So it's actually it's been a it's been another fun
if I can use that word again, exercise here at
next Think because it's very much a collaboration, working hand
in hand with our services teams who actually do a
lot of this consulting and implementation. But essentially it boils
(02:58):
down to this. For decades it environments have been built
around this react and respond model, waiting for tickets, chasing incidents,
firefighting problems, and they've already disrupted employees. But having become
a next Thing customer myself years ago and turning the
lights on across the enterprise, you recognize that it changes everything.
(03:20):
And I think what we've seen over the last at
least after the last ten years since I've been here,
people are more and more understanding what the implication is
of dex what dex is. It's about employee experience and
the digital world. But the questions that we've gotten routinely
are how do I operationalize it? How do I make
it real? I get the technology, I get what I
(03:41):
can do with it, but how do I actually work
it into my organization? Dex is really just a set
of outcomes of a technology platform. So we developed what
I think will become an industry standard for adopting decks.
We called it decks OPS, and you can think of
it as applying the rigor of your security operations center
(04:02):
or your network command center, but with one key difference
in centered on operationalizing digital employee experience rather than implementing
and operationalizing individual technology silos. DESKSOPS is about the structure,
about proactive monitoring and automation and measurable value value, and
(04:22):
it's built on, as we've outlined in our webinars, several
pillars to drive that success.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Let's start with ventin what we discussed in some detail
with Edward Jones with Tim McCormick there, which is people development.
How can organizations realign their existing IT roles and teams
without increasing headcount or creating large scale reorganization, and what
pitfalls should they be looking to avoid when introducing that
(04:52):
sort of structural decks first mindset that you just laid
out there for us.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So I think one of the biggest misconceptions about decks
and dexops is that it requires this big reorg or
added staff. How many people do I have to hire?
In reality, and it was my case as well, most
organizations already have the people and the talent they need.
It's about changing the focus of those roles and changing
(05:20):
that focus over time and aligned with outcome based an
outcomes based roadmap. So I'll give you an example. A
helped USK technician who today spends all their time firefighting
tickets can be given that real time visibility to find
and fix those issues before they show up in the queue,
or at least as part of that activity. When the
(05:42):
ticket comes in. Don't just fix one, go fix a thousand,
because you've got the visibility of who else is suffering.
A desktop support engineer can move from manually taking escalations
or packaging software to monitoring the deployments and monitoring the
adoption and automating fixes to those issues at scale across
(06:03):
the enterprise. So those are the kinds of shifts that
create impact without adding headcount, but that add up over time.
And as you create capacity, you can shift more resources
onto that proactive team. In terms of pitfalls, the real
pitfall is treating it like a side project. I talk
about the fact that decks and dex ops is not
(06:24):
a hobby. You're not building birdhouses in the garage and
when something burns in the kitchen you run in to
fix that problem. And no one's building birdhouses anymore. You
can't treat it like a hobby. It's not something you
just bolt on. If it's not embedded in your daily ops,
your old happid habits of chasing those tickets are going
(06:45):
to dominate. And another pitfall, I would say, is only
focusing and we talk about this in the webinar series,
is only focusing on the tools, standing up dashboards without
reskilling people or adjusting processes, just reinforce versus the same
old problem. So it really is about rebalancing responsibilities, equipping
(07:06):
people with better data, and then putting structure around what they.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Do amazing, and they're also going to inherit a lot
of if you kind of touched upon it there, but
antiquated manual processes, these need to be modernized. Right. What
are the key steps to making sure they're also fit
for purpose inside those newly reorientated teams.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I think it's all about It's all about the operational rigor,
similar to what we see in the security OP center
or network app center. It really is critical to have
processes around what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
The reason rigor is critical, it's simple. Employee experience has
to be a mission critical as mission critical as security
or system up time. Nobody would ever say let's go
dabble in security operations, right, it has to be part
of it has to have rigor around it. And the
same is true for deck shops and the automation you're creating.
(08:11):
If employees can't work effectively, the productivity and customer service
operations grind to a halt. So when decksops is not
focused on with that rigor, you're going to end up
with half baked results. A dashboard here, a script, there,
maybe a survey. Everybody kind of doing their own thing
(08:32):
with the tool that they were given, but there's no accountability,
there's no ownership, there's no measurable outcomes. It turns into
another it experiment in instead of a discipline. So the
real differentiator is process and structure. DESKSOPS has to be
woven into your daily workflow. You need clear responsibilities, escalation
(08:53):
paths KPIs, and you've got to be solving defined problems.
You always have to be asking why am I doing this?
What is this contributing to? It gets very easy to
get lost in the technology and lose track of why
you're creating certain pieces of automation and how they contribute.
Without all of that structure, you're just adding noise to
(09:16):
an already reactive model.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And talk about those career opportunities that the dexops properly implement.
It can open up for people new skill sets, new
career vistas, and somebody who's had a kind of you know,
somebody whose work you might want to look up is
our own Sean Malvey. Who who who is the architect
behind our deck certification series something an announcement not unrelated
(09:45):
to this dexhops discussion for those certification series coming soon,
I think, Sean, But for now, maybe we could get
your your insight into the technology selection process. It's obviously
key to get the desired outcomes. Tim and I were
able to talk to the gentleman at Danscape Bank about
this specific topic. But what's your perspective Shoan.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, I think so. I think there's a lot of
challenges that folks will encounter when it comes to technology selection.
And one thing to keep in mind is like finding
something between like balancing breadth versus like depth of capabilities.
So sometimes people can find themselves in a snag when
they find something that's really deep in one area but
shallow and the others. And then another issue is just
(10:31):
like making sure your tools integrate well across the ecosystem.
So like without open APIs and a strong integration, it's
all those decks insights you can pull kind of remain siloed.
So that's a big problem that you have to look
out for. And I mean there's a slew of other
challenges that teams face, but I think one thing is like,
(10:53):
although it's down to selecting the tool, it's almost impossible
to make any changes if you don't have a mindset
shift first, like Tim is alluding to, like you have
to kind of have the full team and department buy
into it, into what you're doing and why. It's almost
like akin to like a sports team, like they have
a philosophy behind why they're doing certain things, and that
(11:13):
is almost like more important than the individual players or
to stick in the metaphor tools that they have at
their disposal.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Value, realization and tracking have to be front and center. Short,
I mean, it has long been seen as a cost
center effectively, So how does dexops provide the structure to
in your view, translate improved employee experience into measurable business value.
What kind of KPIs or metrics in your view best
demonstrate the impact or can best demonstrate the impact of
(11:46):
decksops to senior leadership.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Yeah, and I think this is the most powerful part,
at least for me, that I love about a dexof
structure and team because it really is able to translate
like huge outcomes and trace it all the way back
to like individual decisions and changes that are made within
the IT department and behind the scenes. So the biggest
outcomes that are going to make a big impact, like
(12:10):
in the boardroom or productivity hours saved, employee satisfaction scores,
you can track like obviously the stuff that's really important
to it, which is like ticket count and MTTR. But
there's also a way with this system to again look
at like time saved, time saved and time lost equations
(12:30):
the DEX score as well, Like we've seen it with
customers that correlate strongly with an improvement, and a DEX
score correlates with like a reduction.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
And time lost.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
And there's ways to calculate these things and prove that
it's not just a gut feeling. Another thing that you
can also do with this is like tag it to
your NPS score. So looking at like do you have
high employee engagement rates with the actions that it is
take making. These are all things that just make it
(13:03):
very tangible and clear when you're in a high level
either a boardroom or a high level meeting with your
managers and directors.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Absolutely, And Megan, you've already been a you know, slurred
as a fat kid here, I'm sure, so, I don't know,
not slid, proud, proud quiet.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I went to university originally as a theater major.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So not just any university, Meghan, listeners, Okay, very distinguished.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
One in California, But yeah, in California, I.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Was a theater kid exent. So on the on the
matter of communication, I suppose communication across the enterprise, it's
also a must. Culture change is often often harder than
technical change, which has been the sort of underlying theme
throughout everything Tim and I've been doing around decktops this summer.
(14:00):
What communication strategies do you consider to be most effective
in getting those business leaders, IT, staff and employees themselves
aligned around dex per se.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I am actually thrilled that this question got thrown to
me because not only because I'm a theater kid, but
also because I think this can be from when I
talk to our customers when they're getting ready to present
at our experience events coming up in just a few
weeks here. This seems to be one of the more
challenging pieces of dex stops, I think for people who
maybe work in IT and are more familiar with working
(14:34):
with technology than you having to work with people. And
I think especially when DEX is a net new function
for your organization, you're getting new data, it's a new
way of thinking, as you say, culture change. You can
meet a lot of resistance if you don't have a
strategy for how to communicate your project. And so if
(14:54):
you're going, let's say, to the security team or to
the network team and saying, hey, this problem it's because
of you, It's because of your system, it can feel
like you're pointing finger at them and saying, this is
your problem, right, You're the one to blame. So you
have to figure out a way to communicate the things
that you're seeing in the data and the things that
(15:15):
are possible from the data in a way that feels
like you're empowering them and maybe even letting them think
it was their idea to solve it that way in
the first place. Finding out ways to sort of bring
the data to them and say what do you think
this is? Saying what do you think this is indicating?
(15:35):
And then you know, when you have those wins from
the data with those sort of teams in partnership, don't
gatekeep it, but share right, share those wins out let
them maybe even take some of the credit for the win.
And by sharing aggressively those wins across these teams, you'll
find more use cases. They'll start to come to you
and say, hey, you have this new data, can we
(15:57):
see this? Can we solve this? Like what about This
can actually help you mature because it'll help you find
those the next use case. I think when it comes
to leadership, and this echoes what Sean was just saying,
it comes down to learning to speak their language, right,
what does your leadership care about what matters to your business,
to your enterprise? Do they want employees to be more productive?
(16:19):
Are they just focused on reducing costs? Is there a
big M and a strategy happening this year? DEX can
support all of those initiatives. It's your job to figure
out how and then communicate that to leadership. And then
when you start to get those wins, share those wins aggressively,
just like Shaun was saying in their language, and you'll
start to get that buy in and maybe get more
(16:42):
investment in your project. And then finally employees, I think
with them as an employee and not someone who works
in it, clear communication, you know, let them know what
DEX is, it's something that's making their life easier, and
what it's not. Right, it's not spyware. We're not paying
attention to how many hours a day you're working. And
(17:02):
then put in place a governance model so you're not
overwhelming them, especially if you're using campaigns. Right, you don't
want all of a sudden, a billion pop ups on
their computer all day. You want them to feel like
DEX is there to help them and it's only telling
them things they need to know in the moment. And
then I guess one extra thought would be AI.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
AI is obviously taking over the deck space as it's
taking over everything else. And when you're thinking about communicating
AI in dex with your employees, it's all about empowering them, right,
whether it's through self service or helping them, you know,
use AI in a better way. You're just focused on
communicating that you're there to help them.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Brilliant. Last question for you, Megan. Obviously, the whole approach
that Tim's laid out for decks oops, here and elsewhere
is a very holistic, system systematic one. But do you
think it can be done in your view, kind of
a bit piecemeal, Like can you do one pillar process
(18:00):
at the time of able to stand up on their own?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You think, interesting question. I. You can get a project
up and running with just one pillar at a time,
but it's not going to see the success that you're
hoping for. You'll end up spinning your wheels twice as fast,
but you're only gonna get half as far right. You're
(18:25):
gonna have to work extra hard. You're not going to
see as much of an outcome. I think the dexkop structure.
As Tim has outlined it, It's a lot of work
up front, but it's worth it because then you can
just start spinning up use case after use case after
use case because you have that firm structure in place
to be able to be successful. I think without it,
you run the risk of your dex project failing, losing
(18:47):
that buy in from leadership, losing that buy in from
the teams you need to work with, and just sort
of seeing the whole thing kind of peter out. So
I would say it's worth it to invest in the
full dexop structure.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Oh so, yeah, I hope people have got a good
sort of overview from that. Tim. Anything we haven't covered
here that you want.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
To want to Yeah, I think maybe let's take a
couple of minutes and just kind of throw throw the
ball around the horn, as they say, and I'll throw
it to you, Tom what And I get this a
lot too? And I'm traveling a lot of organizations that
we talk with are really just struggling to keep their
head above water, right, I just need to keep the
lights on. I don't have time to take on anything new.
(19:29):
Is dexkops only realistic for mature It shops with resources
or can a lean overworked team start on this journey?
What does a minimum viable dexops look like? What's Tom?
What's I'll play questionnaire question around this on what are
your what are your.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Thoughts on it? Inquisitor? A lean over stressed team not
only can think in terms of dexops and think about
that mindset shift, they should be thinking of those tents
because it will. The whole eflus here is to create efficiencies.
It means you stop flying blind effectively, So start measuring
(20:12):
the basics of your employees experience, act on one or
two high impact fixes that you can identify, and start
to create those efficiencies. Now, will those efficiencies be at
the same scale, of the same level of meaning and
appreciation as you would find at a big, shiny it shop.
The answer is perhaps not, John, what.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you think? It's really a combination and the question
is really in relation to a combination of decks and
dex ops operationalizing the function. But what are your thoughts
about busy teams versus those with resources?
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well, I think like maybe even to simplify it more,
one thing can just be near term in a quarter
or even a month, How quick do you want to
improve how you react to problems? And then a more
matured x OPS team, regardless of the size, you can
move into another stage of like how quickly do you
want to predict and automate those issues and just push
(21:08):
it off your plate entirely? And that's how, you know,
if I were to simplify it, that's how I would
explain it to someone that it's kind of like, how
quickly do you want to react to the same issues
you see versus like later in a year, five years
from now, whatever it is. You know, how quickly do
you want to like predict those problems and get ahead
of it before they even arrive as a ticket at
(21:28):
your desk?
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Yeah, I think the I think the overworked teams, the
lean teams actually get greater benefit from this than the
teams with resources. Teams with resources, it's easy to just say, hey,
I'm going to let Joe take care of this issue.
I have people to do this. I don't need the
tool or the capability. The overworked teams are the ones
that really need it because they have fewer resources to
(21:50):
begin with. But Megan, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I would agree with you, Tim. I think there's
a big benefit for a smaller and leaner team to
doing this because ultimately what DEX and DEX aps leads
you to his efficiency. And just a moment ago, when
Tom asked me about you know, communication strategies, a lot
of what I said came specifically from my conversations with
(22:16):
our customer at Kim Lee Horn, who was a DEX
team of one and set up a whole DEX pillar,
communicated with his leadership, communicated across teams and got you know,
a lot of wins and a lot of benefit from
DEX again being a team of one. So I think,
you know, it speaks for itself, like it that being
a lean team doesn't prevent you from seeing the outcomes.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Of this at all. Absolutely, and Tim, we should direct
people to the series if they want to go a
little a little deeper into any of these given topics.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Right, Yeah, we've got a great We've got a great
series running, and I do think there's opportunity to explore
this series maybe on a second pass with some some
other people, but you know, we've got we've got a
great set. You they're they're on demand. You can go
back and listen to them anytime. But yeah, that's uh,
that's in the show notes. We'll put some links to
(23:15):
h to what's out there for people to listen to.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
And you can join us live for the next one
as well. I think at this point, which is going
to be with Senteen, and it's going to be about
that transition to a sort of more proactive service desk
and what do you think we're going to cover their
in particular team.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I think Centeen is one of our more mature customers.
I'm really interested to. I'm always interested to hear how
a customer has operationalized on the front lines at both
service desk and you know, I think some people lump
service desk in as being the level two and level
three support folks as well, but I'm really interested to
talk with them about operationally, how the function has has
(23:59):
spread across teams and some of their some of their
wins that they get out of it. So it should
be a good it should be a good.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Session, fantastic, So join us for that one, and we
hope to see some of you in the chat and
also going to put links to as you as to
mention the previous on demand webinars that we've done. Also
Shawn's incredible dex certification series. You'll be able to sit
those for yourself. If you're looking to get that head
start in your in your workplace, be a lean one
(24:25):
or an advanced one and you'll find something useful there.
And look, we're back now. Reality Bites is back. We've
had We've had our our show PTO if you will,
our dramatic holiday, and you can expect normal programming to resume.
More panel shows, more interview shows with great next thinkers
that will begin to will resume again in two weeks time.
(24:48):
We've got some great guests lined up and we're looking forward.
We'll welcome Ariana and Dina back as well very soon,
and we're looking forward to seeing you all very very soon.
So thank you so much everybody, and I will see
you in two weeks time.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Make sure that you never miss an episode.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your
favorite podcast player, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts,
make sure to leave a rating.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Of the show.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Just tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves.
If you'd like to learn more about how Next Thing
can help me improve your digital employee experience, head over
to nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.