The Founders Show #497

You are invited, and so join us for a CUP of TEA, Hot and Spicy, to Listen to and/or Talk on The Founders' Show, a Politically Incorrect Christian Talk Show, with your host, the Spingiree Baba of New Orleans, Chaplain Hy McEnery and Christopher Tidmore.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's the most wonderful time of thewe think kids jingle belling and everyone telling
you be your good year. It'sthe most wonderful time of the It's the

(00:21):
heb heavy sees of you. Therewill be much missle towing and hearts will
be glowing when loved one's hold.It's the most s wunderful time of the

(00:41):
And how can you not beat anentrance to Christmas time, folks with the
Victory bells. You're listening to theFounder's show here on wrn O ninety nine
to five FM and WSLA fifteen sixtyam. As always on Christopher Tidmore and
Japan Hamagenry. You's Bengary Bubba ofthe Republic and a ho ho ho ho
ho. But this wonderful time onChristmas, and we got a great show.

(01:03):
This is a Christmas show. We'renot going to politics today, folks.
We're not swimming swimming in that septictank. We're going to enjoy the
Christmas chair. And what a starter, what magnificent tunes and sounds we just
heard from the Victory Bells. Butwe have to enter into the great Christmas
plug. A wonderful tradition going inthe Victory Bells. Ladies and gentlemen,
of course, perform at BB's StageDoor Cantina at the National World War Two

(01:26):
Museum, and I have to sayI'm a regular inhabitant, basically pest of
these ladies. You would Mandy,why don't you start off? But most
people don't know is that all ofthe Christmas favorites that you're hearing on the
radio, most of them were writtenin the nineteen forties. Most people think
of the World War Two Museum andthey think of the history and what brings,

(01:46):
and they don't realize what a performancejewel we have in the stage door
Cantina. Aren't in the three ofyou from these Victory bells? That's right,
you just heard it, folks hereon the Founders Show, go to
the World War Two Museum and it'sone of the top rated museums, I
believe, the number three raided museumin America. But don't miss the entertainment.
It will bring you back to thatperiod when your fathers or your grandfather

(02:10):
and grandmothers were Rosie the Riveter orhitting the beaches at Normandy or whatever.
It'll bring you back to that timeto sit in these shows and hear these
beautiful women sing and the fine menthat also sing. So listen now,
y'all are listening to the founders,So the voice of the founding fathers.
And again this shabahah. Mc henry, you're Chaplain Baba of the Republic.

(02:31):
Of course, Christopher Tima. Herewe come to you live of course Monday,
Wednesday and Friday in WSLA fifteen sixtyam from eight to nine am,
and on Sunday mornings our main airingin ninety nine to five WRO. And
this is of course our new Breakfastwith the art segments. But it's never
new that we had the victory bellshere. We've dragged them into studio year
after year after year to the pointwhere I'm sure they're sick of it.

(02:52):
But and just as a plug comingup after the victory bells a little later
in the show, John mcguil forArkibstt, the Historic New Orleans collection and
expert, the author of the bookChristmas in New Orleans, is coming in
to talk about how long the Christmasseason could go. But before we get
to that, we have to getto this, I believe, ladies,
it's time to take a sleigh ride. If that works for you. All

(03:15):
right, ladies and gentlemen, asleigh ride here in the Founder's show.
Just hear the same rinting tiggling too. Come on, it's lovely by the
same. Right together with you,I'll say. The snowy s falling and
friends are calling you. Come on, it's lovely by the boy, say
right together with you. Giddy up, giddy up, giddy up. Let's

(03:39):
go. Let's look at the show. We are running in a wonder letto
snow giddy up, giddy up,giddy up, biscu just holding your head.
We're running on along with the songof a winter fa Then our chicks,
my son Rosie and comfy Cozy arewe we're snug lexy words of what

(04:02):
that it would be. Let's saythe forson sing, of course, are
too. Come on, it's togetherwith you. That was fabulous. I
want you to know something. Isang that song in Afghanistan twenty ten.
I'd just been to Connor Sertaincy Academywith my Crystal's Connor Sertaincy Academy and I

(04:25):
met some other guys are started atMajor Colonel and a major and we were
all singers and we did this forthe troops, and that leads us sort
of to going into our third song. And I think we close here in
the Founders Show, not for thewhole show, but for the segment with
the victory bells from the stage doorcanteen who so graciously agreed to come in.
It's time for a little center.Baby, you are listening to the

(04:48):
Founder Show. Santa Baby, justslept the sable under the tree for me.
Been an awful good girls, sundA Baby, So hurry down the
chimney to night, Santa Baby,a fifty four convertable to label. I'll

(05:13):
wait up for your dear Sansa Baby, So har down the chimney to night.
Think of all the five missed,Think of all the fellas I haven't
kissed. Next year I could bejust ask if you shack off my Christmas

(05:35):
list, Santa Baby. I wanta yacht and really that's not Allah being
an angel all you. Santa Baby, So have we done the chimney to
n Santa handy one little thing?I really need that read to a platinum

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mine, Santa Honey, So herdown the chimney to night. Santa CUTI
and fill my starting with the duplegs and checks sign your excell on the
lines, Santa Cuti, and hurrydown the chimney to night, come and

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trim my Christmas tree with some decorationsby Antiffhannies. I really do believe in
you the let's see you believe inme, Santa Baby. Forgot to mention
one little thing. Hurrying. Wedon't mean on the phone, Santa Baby.

(06:55):
So hurry down the chimney to lierima soon zoon night, Hurry soon,
ladies and gentlemen. The Victory bellsthere at the National World War Two
Museum stage door canteen, over thosekind of voices, and I was Sanah,

(07:16):
I'd be blasting down that very chrasy. And we've got a very exciting
Christmas show today, as you've alreadyheard some of it. That some of
the greatest music I like in Americatoday. The Victory bells over at the
World War Two Museum. They cameto the studio today and gave us a
fabulous Christmas performance. And today we'regonna avoid the political world. You've already
said that like three times. Youcan never just in Louisiana, you can

(07:39):
never avoid politics. It's always partof it. We're just not talking about
it for about five minutes, youknow, come on, no for the
rest of the showeresty show right,all right? You might find out before
the end of the show, highthat Christmas today is kind of a more
solemn festival, believe it or not, than it actually was in the nineteenth
century New Orleans and even earlier.And to explain that truth to us is

(08:03):
the man who's forgotten more about Christmasin New Orleans than anyone of does.
He with Peggy Scott Leboard co wrotethe definitive book, which is of course
entitled Christmas in New Orleans. Johnmcguill, former chief artivist for the Historic
New Orleans Collection, is joining ushere in the studio. And John,
is Christmas today more solemn than itwas in the past in New Orleans?
It really is. You know,you go back to the nineteenth century,

(08:26):
Christmas was pretty wild and pretty raucousin New Orleans. It would generally start
right on Christmas Eve, and peoplesometimes got paid on that day and they
would hit the street shopping and storeswould stay open on Christmas Eve until Christmas
morning, three in the morning,three or four in the morning. Then
they close and reopened at about maybeeight the next morning. On Christmas morning,

(08:48):
saying it was very busy, verybusy. Sand didn't exist. But
what happened, Papa Noel, whathappened? He didn't exist? Let John
tell you, I know. Andwhile we were doing a lot down here
in New England, they outlawed Christmaswas a law in New England. The
Puritans outlawed it because they felt Christmasin England and Scotland had become so wild

(09:11):
and so rock so there was nothingwhat one great, big, huge party
that started on Christmas even went rightthrough Twelfth Night. The Puritans banded,
and in England Oliver Cromwell banded.It was against the law to even make
a plump pudding, but he mincemeat pie. In Scotland it was banned
for many years, and in NewEngland it just followed suit. And in

(09:31):
New England what turned into the holidayby the nineteenth century was more Thanksgiving in
New Year's and you didn't start seeingChristmas making it comeback until around the middle
nineteenth century, after Christmas had sortof been evolving into a family period of
time, and you know, littlewomen brought up, you know, it
took place. I think in Mainehas a Christmas theme to it. That

(09:52):
wasn't until about eighteen sixty something whenthat was written. Prior to that,
though, Christmas was really looked downupon because for those who are religious felt
that had become so rough and sorowdy and so raucous that it was basically
this service to the birth of Christwas very irreligious. Now we talk about
Santa Claus and Father Christmas as ifthey're the same person, but they're not

(10:15):
not really. Well, the historyof Santa Claus goes back, of course,
a long way. It really startswith Saint Nicholas, who was a
bishop of Amyra, and he supposedly, you know, he looked after children.
There was a one story about himfinding out about three girls whose father

(10:35):
had sold them into some sort ofservitude, and in order to get them
released, he gave them each onea bag of gold which they could use
as a dowry. And you know, they were young women, so you
know, this was something looking afteryoung people. Another tale tells of him
giving money to children in presents tochildren, and by the twelve hundreds he

(10:56):
was around in the three hundreds.By the twelve hundreds, art as a
patron saint of children, and onNovember the sixth, excuse me, December
the sixth, he would give outpresents Saint Nicholas. The first time you
find Saint Nicholas giving toys out onDecember twenty night of December twenty four,
twenty fifth was in Clement Moore's aVisit from Saint Nicholas, which we all

(11:20):
call it Night before Christmas. Butthat's when Santa Claus was really beginning to
make in appearance. Father Christmas,who is the English Father Christmas, actually
looks after partiers. He was hewould protect them from getting too drunk,
protect them from partying too much.It was not a he was not a
children's guy at all. He wassomeone who looked after adults in their partying.

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Santa Claus came along in the eighteentwenties in the United States, and
he's pretty much all American from thebeginning. And he was created by and
the children don't listen to this.He was created by the Knickerbocker Club in
New York. Knickerbo who was basedon a book by Washington Irving called The
Knickerbocker History of New York. Andthey were trying to regenerate Christmas to make

(12:07):
it more of a family festival.And you know, this was the Romantic
Age too, you know, peoplelooking back to sort of the German roots
of Christmas where Christmas had remained very, very popular for a long time.
But they came up with an ideaof this gift giver named Santa Claus.
The name was based on Center Claus. And they said that well, because

(12:28):
New York was once a Dutch colony, well, Center Claus would have been
traditioned. Well, no, notreally, because Center Claus came along a
little bit later. He was aDutch Protestant version of Saint Nicholas who continued
to deliver GISs and today continues todeliver gifts to Dutch children. On December
the sixth, but Santa Claus kindof coincided with a visit from Saint Nicholas

(12:50):
Clement Moore's book. Clement Moore wasalso a member of the Knickerbocker Club and
he was the one who turned Santainto a little elf right a sleigh.
All those reindeer names Donner and DonderI think it's the actual name Donder and
Blitzen and so on and so forth, they were given by Clement Moore.
Santa Claus became a huge hit overnightin York and spread to the rest of

(13:13):
the country very quickly. And thenas Santa Claus became popular here, he
kind of jumped back across the Atlantic, and Father Christmas evolved more and more
into a Santa Claus. The Frenchdid not historically have a Santa Claus or
a Pairanel or a Papa Noel,it was believed, and this was true
in New Orleans as well. Thegifts given Christmas Eve were given by the

(13:37):
Baby Jesus. And you know,the Baby Jesus did not give big gifts.
You would usually get something and thisisn't kidting, like an orange or
comb or something, you know,to something, something befitting the christ shall
to give. The big Christmas giftsamongst the French would be given out either
on New Year's Day or Twelfth Night, but New Year's Day became the big
day. Joining us here in studioas John McGill, he's former kivist of

(14:00):
the Historic New Orleans Collection. He'sthe author of many books, but his
the one we bring him here todayis is Most Beloved Christmas in New Orleans,
which he wrote with co wrote withPeggy Scott the Board and so he's
still active in his historical pursuits.He gave us a great lecture on this
just the other night. And John, I have a couple of points to
make questions. You all hear SantaClaus Klaus Klaus in Santa Klaus, and

(14:26):
that comes from the Centerve means saint, and then Klaus is where they took
an I off of Nicholas. Allyou end up with is Klaus. And
that's why it's Santa Claus. Itcould be Santa Nicholaws, but it's Santa
Claus. And anyway, one ofthe I understanding he was also a patron
saint of bankers. Can you helpus understand that? And I love the

(14:48):
three balls on pawn shops. Oh, Saint Nicholas was the patron saint of
a lot of things, but hebecame the patron saint of bankers. And
I think I mentioned earlier that hewhen he got those three girls released from
their servitude, he gave them threebags of gold each one for a dowry.
And that's where the three balls camefrom. Supposed supposedly on much of
that based on legend, but bankersand money lenders would use the three balls

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and of course as time went on, pawnbrokers would use the three balls representing
it. But also he was apatron saint of mariners. In the Mediterranean,
he's regarded as a patron saint.And also you know, when Scandinavia
became began Christianizing, the Viking,shall we say, took on, took
him on as their patron saint.Well, they were great mariners, yes,

(15:35):
and so that's that's how it endedup in the northern regions of Europe.
Fascinating and then they turned him intoa Norseman type with the fur and
all that and the reindeer. Buthe was a Greek saint. And by
the way, a lot of peopledon't know this, he was a bishop,
and he was a brilliant theologian,and he gave one of the greatest
defenses for the Hippostatic Union of Christat the Consul of Ncea with with Constantine

(16:00):
presiding, and it was one ofthe swaying arguments that saved the church from
the Armenian harriser at the time.So he was a fascinating fella. He
was born to great wealth. Heended up giving all of his money away
in his lifetime, helping the poorand looking after kids. He's a multitasker.
He was for Renaissance Man. It'sbeaking of multitasking, John micguil Let's

(16:23):
bring it back towards New Orleans andthe evolution of Christmas. But I have
to say I have a vested interestin this topic. What is mister Bingle,
Mister Bingal, Mister Bengal is inreality, he's actually an advertising tool,
but he's very beloved. He's becomean iconic part of Christmas in New

(16:44):
Orleans. And mister Bingle, he'sa baby boomer. He was born in
nineteen forty seven and there was aman named Emil Ellon who worked as a
He was basically a decorator and kindof a buyer from Mason Blanche, which
was whether it's Carlton Hotel is todayon Canal Street, a big department in
store. And he went on abusiness trip to New York to get some
ideas for advertised. Excuse me,he didn't go to New York, went

(17:06):
to Chicago. He had some businessideas for Maison Blanche. And when he
was there he went to Marshall Fieldswhich is now Macy's on State Street and
discovered this character named Uncle Missletoe,and Missletoe was sort of a very dickensie
and you know, a portly fellow, and he would wear missletoe and he's
hat and such, and there wouldbe window displays with him. But then

(17:27):
he found another one at Montgomery Wardand Monkey Ward as people called it back
in the forties and fifties. AndRudolph the red Nose reindeer, who was
about to become a really big hitwell he thought these were, you know,
wonderful ideas. So he was goingto come back to New Orleans and
divide something for Mason Wash and beand he dreamed up what he called a

(17:48):
snow doll. And this was asnowman with legs and arms and you know,
a movable snowman. And he worean ice cream cone hat, had
a bow, and wore some missiletoe. And I think his wings were
holly or something like. His wingswere missiletoe. His wings were missiletoe.
I know this from experience having wornthat. Okay, yeah, so the

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missletoe is for the wings. Andthey had a contest in the store to
come up with what would be thename of this snow doll, and the
winner was mister Bingle, and itworked very well because apparently mister Bingle was
a novel at Christmas novel in nineteenfifteen. But also the initials are the

(18:33):
same as Maison Blanche and b soit fits very very well. I think
Jingle was made up in that.But there were there was a puppeteer on
Bourbon Street and his name was OscarEisentraut and the show of marionettes and marionettes
of course, for people wo don'tknow, a puppet is a hand puppet
that you put on your hand.Marionettes are held up by strings, and

(18:53):
he was very very he was considereda very fine marionettist, I guess that's
the word. But he also hadtwo asistance as well. And they started
setting mister Bingle up in one ofthe big show windows on Canal Street,
and people just really, you know, piled in to see this, you
know, sort of like Santa Clausbecame an instant success nationally in the eighteen
twenties and thirties, well, misterBingle became a big success in New Orleans

(19:17):
in the nineteen forties. And hewas still around as I saw him last
week. He is still sat allin all of his icy, snowy glory.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Ihave to confess I became a snowman
last week. The pictures, youknow, it was really funny. He
was a fun happy little guy youcould love God well. And it was
a part of New Orleans tradition.Yeah, we had pictures of Santa Claus,

(19:38):
but pretty much anyone who is olderthan I, you know, my
age and older. Our major Christmasmemory besides Christmas Morning, is going down
to Canal Street and getting pictures withmister Bingle. And so you know,
we did this and the kids lovedit, but they basically had no idea
who this really scary snowman was.It's and even with mister Bingle remaining in

(20:03):
celebration the Oaks the original one andpart of it, it's not as much
as it's a part of the consciousnessthat it was for anyone. Bingle he
was. He was cuddly. Departmentstores across the country had these. Of
course, you know, Montgomery Wardhad Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer who went
on to international thing. I wasbrought up in the Bay Area, and
the White House had a character namedHappy Holly Uh, you know, Holly

(20:26):
isn't very cuddly, but you know, yes, but while a snowman could
be kind of cold, but youknow, mister Bingle cuddly. And there
was a song written for mister Bingle, was there not? Yes, it's
called Here comes mister Bingle. Aterrible voice, but we'll go ahead,
and you want to be a victorybelly. Okay, here goes right to

(20:51):
voice. Yes, I was singinga regular voice. Shall I do that?
Okay? If I can do that, here comes mister Bingle. Jingle
jingle, Jingle jingle. Here comesmister Bingle with another message from Chris Kringle.
Time to launch your Christmas Christmas season. Maison Blanche makes Christmas please,

(21:11):
and gifts for you, gifts therefor you to see each a gym from
MB. So of course you knowhe was an advertiser, and it's it's
it's funny because he's so embraced asthis key part of New Orleans history.
But then again, so is MaisonBlancheeah, which is lost now. So
it is. But you know Ican walk in the Rith Carlton Hotel today
and still walk around and there andsay this doesn't feel like hotel. This

(21:33):
felt like she just to be ahotel, but it feels like a department
store. You know, the ceilingsare kind of low in places like Okay,
shoes used to be over here here, record department was up here.
You need the escalators. And youcan feel mister Bingle in the air well.
You can see him out at theyou know, celebration the oh and
it's actually still one of the mostpopular things to go get a picture taken
with mister Bingle. And mister Bingledolls are still made, and soul still

(21:56):
made and sold. He was badlyinjured in you know, the flooding from
Katrina, but they got him upand you know, send him off to
the hospital and got him fixed up. So well, I mean we went
back in the date free put thesnow together. Well, we think about
New Orleans, of course, youknow, in recent decades with mister Bingle.
But Christmas in New Orleans, andparticularly the Creole Christmases that began have

(22:19):
a much older tradition. But theywere a very abbreviated holiday, weren't they.
It's not what we think of today. It really was because historically the
parameters of Christmas were Christmas Eve,to Twelfth Night, which is you know,
Twelfth Night is when the magi wentto Bethlehem and to see the Christ
Child. And also the French tendedto divide the secular and the spiritual very

(22:45):
much into Christmas was regarded as avery religious day. It was the birth
of Christ. People would fast duringChristmas Eve, they would go to midnight
Mass, which usually begin in aboutthe French. Yes, and as the
nineteenth century wore on, as Christmasitself became more and more of a family

(23:08):
gathering, entire families would go outand numbers of uh Catholic churches in New
Orleans would would have midnight masses,and it was really the thing to do.
It was the place to go.And also these masses were also music
recitals as well. It could gowell into the night, and these would

(23:29):
even be reviewed in the newspaper.As you know, which sure the cathedral
or which church would have provided thefinest musical musical entertainment. I suppose you
could say then the family would gohome together where they would have a revenant.
The Christmas revean was very small andrevenon does not have to be Christmas.
I've got to get into the definitionthat does not have to be Christmas.

(23:52):
You can go to the opera,you can go to a movie,
and if you go to the Frenchmarket and have coffee and doughnuts afterwards,
that's a revene. The word meansreawakening or awakening after you go somewhere.
You want to go somewhere and havea light meal. The Christmas reveant was
very small. About the grandest thingthat would be served would be griods and
grits, different types of breads,fruits. There was not a lot of

(24:18):
drinking. Probably the most that anyonewould consume would be eggnog. Then as
soon as Christmas was well Christmas Day, of course children would go and visit
their grandparents and their aunts and theiruncles. And the gifts they received were
of course very small at that time, because as I said earlier, the
baby Jesus was the gift giver atthat time, and so you'd have a

(24:41):
small gift. But the children dressup go visit their families. Then they
would go to church again, andoften they would go visit numerous churches,
because the crash was very much apart of each Catholic church and the so
Alloyd's almost seems like the tradition thatexists today of going to different Saint Joseph
Alders, so you know, yeah, church to church, yes, and
you go from and the churches wouldbe I must say mobbed because these crash

(25:07):
were so lavish in many cases thatnot just Catholics but Protestants, non Christians
would go and visit them. Masseswould be conducted all day long in the
churches and they were magnificent. Therewere more music recitals. But once Christmas
ended, then you would start gettingto sort of what we regard as the
secular side of Christmas. This iswhen the Christmas gifts would be considered and

(25:33):
nobody brought the gifts. You knowin the earlier days they came from mom
on, pop on, Grandmama onand so on. They weren't given by
a particular gift giver, and storeswould advertise in New Orleans and gifts were
available for both Christmas and New Year's. New Year's Day for the Creoles was
the big gift giving day. That'swhen you got the fancy, expensive presence.

(25:57):
That's when you had a big reveon, which would be near the end
of the day. That's when theroast turkey would come out. That's the
that's the big Christmas party that wethink of not just immediate family, but
friends and extended relationship. One ofthe largest revenants. And this is even
before the Marti Grals season, beforethe Twelfth Night begins, the Marti Girl

(26:17):
sits. That's the night the ThreeKings came, and that ends the twelve
days of Christmas, and then MartiGras begins and also trim But wait,
the big Marti Gras celebrate, Imean the big New Year's Eve celebration that
happened back in the eighteen seventies waswhen Momas paraded and had their Big Ball,

(26:37):
which was six days before Marty Girlstart. So it was that big
of a thing to have a bigblowout on New Year's Day. And you
also had the Twelfth Night revelers onTwelfth Night, which started in eighteen six
days later in eighteen seventy. So, but even then, even in the
nineteenth century, Twelfth Night was stillregarded not so much as the beginning of
Marti Gras, but as the endof the Christmas that was almost becoming even
by the by the late nineteenth centuryunique to New Orleans was in fact in

(27:00):
the United States was considered very uniqueto New Orleans because when Twelfth Night Revelers
started in eighteen seventy, they actuallysaid this was a tradition that had not
come to the United States from Europe. Twelfth Night was a pretty rowdy celebration
too, and it had even goneout of favor in France because it had
become so rowdy, but New Orleanssort of held on to it. And
then when the Twelfth Night Revelers started, one of the newspapers said that this

(27:23):
was bringing back an old tradition that, you know, celebrating the visitation of
the Magi and not only ending theChristmas season, but also beginning a new
carnival season. So by this timeyou were already beginning to look at Twelfth
Night ushering in Marti Grass. Althoughas late as nineteen oh five, I

(27:45):
think it was nineteen oh five,there was an article in the Daily Piccaun
about what a Twelfth Night party shouldbe like and it included a big cake
and whoever got the bean from thecake would become the king of that party,
and then of course they would haveto buy the next cake. So
you're getting into, you know,the king cake. But they the cake
was to have be decorated in redand green like Christmas. The room decorated

(28:07):
in red and green, and peoplewere supposed to start taking the Christmas decorations
down, so you were ending Christmasto begin Carnival. But you know,
the first invitation of Twelfth Night Revelerslooks like a Christmas card. John McGill,
the author of the book Christmas inNew Orleans, is joining us for
the hour here after coming off awonderful rendition from the Victory Bells. If

(28:30):
you missed any part of the showor want to hear the whole thing,
you can always go to the ondemand section of wrno dot com, look
for the Founder's Show and look forthis sweet show. It is posted at
wr dot com. Also, youcan always check us out at our website,
The Foundershow dot net. The foundershowdot net. You're listening to it.
We come on live every Monday,Wednesday and Friday from eight to nine

(28:51):
am in Morning Drive and then onSunday mornings from eight to nine am on
wr nine ninety five FM and John. When it comes down to this,
the idea of the creole Christmas comesthrough, is that kind of a nineteenth
century construct really I mean, welook at it and I have to give
a plug for the Friends of theCabildo, which does a wonderful creole Christmas

(29:14):
basically the weekend after Christmas, andI heard encourage you to find out more
by going online looking for Friends ofthe Cabildo. But we act like it's
an early you know, colonial tradition. It's not. Oh the way,
also, Laura Plantation has a greatcareer Christmas. Yeah, it's really not
an early colonial. It's very nineteenthcentury, very Victorian, very bourgeois,

(29:34):
very middle class. Also at atime when children were becoming more revered in
a family. You can go backto the seventeenth and eighteenth century, children
were just considered part of the familyand that was about it. But by
the time you got into the nineteenthcentury, children were because you know,
partly because of the age of Romanticismand for want of a better term,
you know, Victorian attitudes towards theideal child, who the ideal life child,

(29:57):
lifestyle and becoming more and more apart of Christmas. And of course
it seems logical since it celebrates thebirth of a baby, children should be
a very important part of it.But that's when you started seeing more and
more gift giving for children, childrenbeing included as part of the holiday spirit,
as part of the Christmas spirit aswell, and you know, gifts,

(30:18):
gifts for children, and the riseof what we consider so much a
part of Christmas today, the ChristmasTree, which really wasn't a part of
life outside of Germany until the nineteenthcentury. Christmas carols. Of course,
there are old Christmas carols and oldChristmas songs that go back a long way,
but surprisingly many of them had beenlost by the early nineteenth century and

(30:42):
sort of musicologists, archaeology, musicologistswere going out and finding them in Britain,
they were finding them in places likeWest England and Wales. Even the
French were going out. You havehad a game, the Celtic fringe save
civilization. It did save civilization yetand you know, in so most people
don't realize this. During the FrenchRevolutionary period, organized religion was frowned upon.

(31:06):
Christmas was sort of put on theback burner, so they tried to
completely destroy religion. Yeah, theycreated a new religion. It was the
state, and their goddess was aprostitute that they brought in a Notre Dame
cathedral to worship. That was theirconcept, the only concept of religion they
would allow. If you challenge that, you lost your head. Yeah,

(31:27):
and there there was no Paranoel.There was no Papa no Weel. Paranoel
and Papa Noel came along later inthe nineteenth century, and guess who they
were based on? Good old AmericanSanta Claus. You know, Saint Nicholas
started in Europe, the whole ideathat jumped the Atlantic eventually, and then
in New York Santa Claus came out, and then the idea of Santa Claus

(31:48):
began spreading around the world. Andyou know, it's interesting even to this
generation. It spread because when Iwas a little boy and then good in
England it was still was a littlebit of Father Christmas, but you started
seeing Santa Claus more and more.Now no one uses Father Christmas in Britain.
I mean it's it's literally Santa Clausthe starter. What's in the whole?
Yeah, okay, you to answerthe question, but Father Christmas because

(32:10):
I've always been fascinating with this.In the Christmas trowd about Dickens, when
you have the fella of Christmas past, he always made me think of Father
Christmas. Was that who he reallyrepresents. I think that's what he was
trying to represent, well, atleast the artist was trying to represent.
It was around that time that thegift giving for children was becoming more and

(32:32):
more a part of Europe as well, not just the United States, and
Father Christmas was sort of certainly thelogical person to evolve into into the gift
giver. But yeah, you're correctwhen you say that Father Christmas has been
pretty much replaced. My mother wasa New Zealander and father Chris. She

(32:52):
born in nineteen nineteen and she wasbrought up with Father Christmas. Well,
on the front of a department oron Queen Street in Auckland, there is
a huge Santa Claus put up allin the red, all in the fur,
all in the cap, all inthe boots, all with the big
white beard. He looks just likeSanta Claus here and that's the Southern Hemisphere.

(33:12):
He must be melting. Yeah Christmas. Three christmases ago. I spent
Christmas in Hobart, Tasmania, andthey had it. The entire main drag
was chrisp was was reindeer Santa ClausCollie, which is about as far away
from from from Hobart in December asyou could possibly do. The Vikings realize

(33:35):
the influence of right and then nobodyknows it. And for the fun.
This morning, I was just doinga web search looking, you know,
for shopping center department stores around theworld. I found this big shopping center
near Copenhagen called Fields or something likethat, full of big stores and expensive
stores. And I found the Englishversion and it said have you sent your
letter to Santa Claus yet? Well? The best part, of course,

(33:59):
it comes down to it is whenI was a few years ago, maybe
about ten or twelve years ago,I drove up the Fiords and through Norway
and crossed over to Finland at thenor Cap, and right past the nor
Cap in Finland, what is therebut Santa's Village at the North Pole?
And I mean it might as wellbe the Santa Claus movie. I mean,

(34:20):
it's the elves. It's every clichethat came up in America. Down
there down under, they were callingfor the South Pole, not the North
Pole. Yeah, yeah, possibility. What's interesting that so much of especially
our secular Christmas has come along assoon as something new comes in, it
is automatically popular. You know,you look at the history of the Christmas

(34:40):
tree, which dates back to thetime of the really at the time of
the Pagans, Holly ivy fir trees, they were all green during the winter,
so it represented that, you know, during these very cold, very
dark days, there was still lifein the world. But then as time
went on, in Germany particularly,they began using more and more of the
firs. You know the story aboutthe fir tree hanging upside down from the

(35:04):
ceiling and which I think they probablyjust hung in their rafters. But you
know, there are stories about howthe modern Christmas tree evolved and nobody really
quite knows. But there's one aboutyou know, Martha Martin Luther walking on
a snowy evening but with a lotof stars out and the ground was covered
with snow, and he saw starsshining through a through a fir tree and
it was well, it was ChristmasEve, and he thought, you know,

(35:27):
this is something that would be representativeof the birth of Christ. Whether
that's true or not. By fifteenthirty one, they were already selling what
we regard as modern fir trees inGermany, and one of the Christmas but
it was Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. Well, it actually was when you
get out to that because the Germanit was the German Protestants. Because while
we had early German settlers in Louisianaas early as the seventeen twenties, they

(35:51):
were from Catholic Germany. They didn'tthey brought maybe the tradition of greenery with
them. They didn't bring the illuminatedChristmas tree that pretty much maid with Germany.
Now Germans who came to the UnitedStates, well what became the United
States in Pennsylvania Northeast, they didbring the Christmas tree with them. I

(36:14):
understand the story was that when Washingtoncrossed the Delaware, the Hessians who were
fighting for the British the Pacts whowere Germans, were celebrating around a Christmas
tree. I don't know what Washingtonand his crew might have thought of the
Christmas tree when they got there,and German settlers in New Orleans, immigrants
to New Orleans and say the eighteenthirties and eighteen forties were already putting up

(36:34):
Christmas trees, but it hadn't spreadto the rest of the public until Prince
Albert, who was German and QueenVictoria set up a little table Christmas tree
at Windsor Castle. It was illustratedin the Illustrated London News and then Godie's
Ladies Book in the United States pickedthe same picture up the next year and
they redrew it a little bit.You know, they took the crown off

(36:58):
Queen Victoria, they took the sashoff off Prince Albert. But here was
this, you know, middle classand that was a lot of their attitude.
Middle class, This middle class familywith their kids around them, ogling
this Christmas tree. It took offlike gangbusters. The first Christmas tree lot
in the United States, reputed andit probably was, was on Fifth Avenue

(37:21):
in New York in eighteen fifty one. Way out on Fifth Avenue was out
in the country in New Orleans.People picked up the Christmas tree. But
we don't have fir trees. Sowhat did they do here? They dragged
something off the porch. Eliza Ripley, who wrote in nineteen twelve a memoir
of her life as a girl inthe eighteen thirties and eighteen forties and fifties,
talks about how they were visiting aplantation and someone suggested a Christmas tree,

(37:45):
which she'd never seen before. Sothey dragged an outtha plant off the
fORCH and put it up in thehouse and decorated with presents and cut out
things. Man named sn Moody,he was an Englishman, owned a very
very successful in store on Canal Street. He had one of the mansions on
Canwtry. It's still standing today.You'd hardly see it as a house.

(38:05):
But he dragged a well he didn't. He probably had someone drag in a
sixteen foot Japanese plum tree to putand put it under the arch between the
two parlors of his house. Thisis the way people decorated Christmas trees in
New Rths and you'll see it atthe Herman Grima House where they use a
you know, something that would growin a pot. In New Orleans,

(38:28):
it wasn't until about the eighteen eightiesthe tree fir trees. When the railroads
came in, the fir trees werereally being shipped south. But the first
fir tree to be exhibited in NewOrleans was in eighteen fifty five, and
it was the Ladies of Saint Paul'sEpiscopal Church, which was on Camp Street
under where the Expressway is today.A fir tree was brought into New Orleans
and they decorated it as a Masonichall on Saint Charles, and there were

(38:51):
newspaper articles about it. People someof the writers said, these are the
kinds of things our German friends putup in New Orleans. We've never really
seen one before, but the ladiesput it up in order to try to
raise money for to decorate the church, which was new at that time.
But by the eighteen eighties she beganto see real Christmas trees. John John
Miguel, the author of Christmas inNew Orleans, is joining us. The

(39:13):
book is available Christmas in New Orleanson Amazon dot Com. If I'm a
mistaken yes, Also, the HistoricNewle's Collection has it in their shop.
I saw it the other day.They've got a few copies. We understand
that Santa Claus is a patron saintalso of bankers. He was patron sating
several things. And I'm beginning totie thinking about England and how they went
from Father Christmas to Santa Claus.Is it because of the possibly because of

(39:36):
the huge banking operations in England thefamous love Child family in their dynasty,
so mister Bingle is advertising. SantaClaus is a banker's how shall we say,
promotional vehicle, and so you know, wait wait wait, and also
also how did he become the patronSanta Bankers St. Nicholas St. Nicholas.
Yes, of course, you know, I really don't know how that

(39:57):
came about. He was a verywealthy individu. Could have been this because
the people, the poor people wouldget in debt to the bankers, and
then he would relieve them of theirdebt to save their children. And so
maybe some kind of way that tiedhim into the bankers poshogically, this is
just my best guests, folks,So you know, this is something I
do want to mention. You know, we have the bonfires in Louisiana,

(40:20):
which are you know, really internationallynoted as something very pretty unique to hear,
but this is probably a Celtic hadTeltic roots as well. And for
those of ever saying that these arebonfires that go basically from Gramercy to Sorrento
and a bit beyond that, allalong the levee and the river. But
they're not something that's been going theybuild it. This has been going on
since the seventeen hundreds. That's notexactly true. Well, there is indication

(40:43):
that there were probably bonfires built asearly as the seventeen twenties, but they
were not there to lead Papa nol in because there's no Papa no El
at the time. It's something theybrought from Europe with them that has ancient
roots, ancient pagan roots really,and those were probably Germans doing it,
right, oh, the German coast, considering what Germans would have done it.
Yeah, yeah, certainly are theGermans here, And you know,

(41:05):
it's just to light the dark skyand to you know, produce some warmth
during the winter period. You knowyou're getting into the height, so yeah,
right, and and it was justan old tradition. There's there are
stories of fires being bonfires in northeasternwas now northeastern Canada, and people would

(41:25):
build these in their fireplaces and succeedin burning their houses down, so you
know, they would move it outto community bonfires. A lot of it
also evolved around Halloween, and insome parts of the United States you still
have bonfires at Halloween, whereas herebecame more Christmas. And part of that
belief is that if you're celebrating thebirth of Christ. You don't want to

(41:47):
have devils and demons around. Soit was felt that the more fire you
had, the more fireworks you shotoff, the more guns you shot off,
the more noise you made, themore drums you beaten, the more
horns you blew, the greater youdrive these bad things away on what is
you know, one of the holiernights of the year, And of course

(42:07):
that was brought to New Orleans inthe nineteenth century. It was pretty raucous,
but I won't go into that.That pretty much died out with World
War One. But no, thebonfires were not there to lead Papa Noel
down. That came a lot lateron. But it's a nice, you
know, twentieth century story, andif you've never done it, folks,
it makes for a fantastic, fantasticChristmas Eve. But on that note,

(42:30):
John Miguil, of course, formerarchivist of the Historic New Orleans Collection,
now authored many books, but Christmasand New Orleans. It is available at
Amazon dot Com and of course atthe Historic New Orleans Collections bookstore, Ladies
and Gentlemen, several other sources.I've actually seen it many places around the
city so go look forward. John, thank you for coming honest and keeping

(42:50):
the idea of Christmas in New Orleansalive both in history and reality. So
we're having a great Christmas show.And so today as we talk about go
into our chaplain by patriotic moments,to take a brief moment remind you the
biblical foundations of America are Judeo Christianjurisprudence, history of this country. We're
gonna talk about Christmas. So manythings to talk about. Every president loved

(43:13):
and they always had special days theyappointed for Christmas and to remember Christmas and
to focus on Christmas. And sotoday we're going to talk about a Christmas
down here in New Orleans, becausewe love the twelve days of Christmas,
and we used to end it onTwelfth Night every year, and twelfth Night
began one of the many great martygral celebrations called Twelfth Night Revelers, where

(43:36):
we bring out a king cake.Now, what is a king cake.
It's a weird looking thing, doesn'treally look like a normal cake, and
of course put it anything be normaldown here. It's a circular cake.
Of what I mean by that isit looks like a giant doughnut without any
icing, although it does have nicewonderful things inside and outside of it.
And it's the three Marty Girl colors, green, gold, and purple,

(43:59):
and it represents it stands for thethree kings who came to worship the Christ
shall And nobody knows if they werethree kings or not, but that's just
a tradition. There were kings fromthe east, magi pagan sorcerers who discovered
the real reason for the season.They discovered the Messiah, the biblical Messiah,

(44:20):
the Lord Jesus Christ, and theycame to worship him. And so
they were kings coming to submit themselvesto the King of the universe, the
King of kings and Lord of lords. That's how important it was to them.
And when they were there and theycame, they didn't know where Jesus
would be born. They knew thetime, but they didn't know when.
So what they did was they wentto Herod, another evil king actually,

(44:43):
and to find out where he was. And Herod said, yeah, go
on find him, and when youfind him, let me know. I
want to come worship them too.Well, Herod was going to go kill
him. He didn't want he didn'tlike the competition. So they went there,
and then they had a dream whereGod warned them they'd get out of
there and go all the way aroundJerusalem. Don't go back to see her
and escape because this man's coming tokill the Messiah. And so they did

(45:05):
that. They went in a circuitousrow, right hence the king cake is
in a circle. And inside ofthe king cake you find it used to
be a bean and that representative likea little baby. But then now we
have plastic babies in there. Andso whoever gets the baby gets to be
the gift giver, because Jesus wasthe greatest gift giver of all. That
means you have to give the nextparty. And it's a fun, one

(45:25):
funnel of fun and wonderful tradition thatAmericans, at least down here in New
Orleans, has celebrated forever well forgenerations. And so remember this. We
have Christmas because Christ is the greatestgift giver ever given. He is the
gift, He is a gift.And that's why in the great old Christmas
they wouldn't make a big deal outof how many presents you get on Christmas,

(45:47):
because the greatest present was already here. It was the Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, folks, do you havethat gift? Do you have the
Lord Jesus As we now go intoour chapelain Baba gospel moment, you know
the Bible says God loves you withan everlasting love of the Boces. For
God so love the world. That'syou, that's everybody that he gave his
only godden son. That's the LordJesus Christ, perfect God, perfect man,

(46:07):
all the way God, all theway man. And who's ever believeth
in him, believe with what believethat he died for all your sins,
was buried in rose the day hedied for your sins the day you're born
to the day you die. Youtell you see your greatest sins. And
then he rose from the dead towin for you his precious free gift of
ever the lasting life, that who'sever believing in him shall not perish.
Now go to hell, but haveeverlasting life. If you've never done that

(46:28):
before, do it now? Doit today? Is with handles Messiah one
of the greatest songs ever written inhistory of the world. When I marry,
Marry Christmas, he sing or soby s Well, folks, what

(49:35):
a magnificent rendition that was handles Messiahby the graciest choir of Korea. Oh
what a blessing we have every Christmas. I love it. It gets me
all excited, And I just wantto make a little note my partner,
who is a beloved friend, ifyou will, of mister Bingle. He
wanted to make sure that we madesure that everybody knew this is his seventy

(50:00):
fifth birthday, folks. This year, twenty twenty three December is the seventy
fifth birthday of old mister Bingle,our beautiful, wonderful, lovely, frosty
little friend. Sometimes it's a bigfriend to depend on the size the size
that they produce of him. Youknow, I wanted to just review that

(50:22):
King Kke story that I shared earlierwith you. That baby represents Jesus.
Think of that, folks, andhe is the reason for the season.
I mean, there's so many thingsin our culture that keep pointing us to
Christ. Well, I'll tell youwhat the most important thing of all.
After you know him and you knowhe knows you, by trusting in him,

(50:45):
believing that He did die for allyour sins and rows and the dead
folks. The next thing is toget ready for his second coming, because
it's coming, and it's coming soon. As we now go into our chaplain
by bay Watchman on the Wall,and today I want to start this off
with a wonderful Christmas song called Joyto the World. We sing it for
Christmas. But if you look intothe background over that was by Isaac Watts

(51:09):
and handle of handles Messiah. Ifyou look into it, you're gonna find
out that it was actually written forthe second Coming, not his first coming,
but his second coming. And didyou know that there are over one
hundred prophecies in the Old Testament forhis second coming, And there are over
two hundred prophecies in the Old Testamentand many more in the New Testament for

(51:30):
his second coming. Folks, thisis absolutely amazing that the Bible puts so
much emphasis on the second coming ofChrist, much more than on the first
coming. Although the first coming wascertainly exceedingly important, we'd have no second
coming we didn't have the first coming. So think about that. I remember

(51:52):
Jeeve said, when you see allthese things happening, war's, rumors of
wars, pestilences Israel back in theland, signs in the heavenlys, and
on and on and on. There'sso many. I mean, as always,
I don't have enough time to goover all the signs. But the
key thing is he said, whenyou see all these things happening at the
same time. You see, manyof these things have happened in the past.

(52:12):
We've had great plagues, we've hadgreat wars, etc. But if
we had it all happening at thesame time, no, never, This
is the first time in the historyof the world where everything is coming together.
Folks. He's at the door becausehe says, when you see all
these things happening and they're coincident,they're happening at the same time, then
I'm at the door. Get ready. This was in his olive discourse,

(52:34):
right before he went to the Cross. He was telling his followers when he
would come back, and they didn'tquite understand what that meant. But now
we understand exactly what it means.Two thousand years later we know. So,
folks, thanks so much for beingwith us on the show today,
and we're not going to close withthe mont Saint Martin singing a creole goodbye,
and just remember this. Every Christmasin Old New Orleans in South Louisiana,

(52:58):
if you will. When folks leftthe home, you know they bid
bid their loved ones good night.After the Christmas festivities that night, on
either New Year's Eve or New Year'sDay, what do they have at the
door. There's always a creole goodbye. So here we go with a mont
Saint Martin singing a creole goodbye.God bless you all out there, and
to marry merry Christmas. They callyou cREL goodbye. They think we're just

(53:30):
wasting the time. All three,Sibley, there's time for a creo goodbye.