Season 2 - Episode 12: Rules Schmules

Rules are meant to be followed or broken, kinda depends. For instance, who says we have to edit out when we say the wrong episode? Turns out we don't! You guys are smart enough to figure it out, kinda like when you decide when to follow the rules. Or not.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to What's Happening Here. Thisis a podcast we're finding the perfect and
balance of being a parent, apartner, and a person without losing the
things that matter most to you inthe process, like your sanity. You
might know me as doctor Sarah,the Brain Gal. I'm a pediatric nurse,
psychologist, and mom of two whotranslates brain science to everyday life.
I see all kids, really allpeople like little brains. You probably don't

(00:23):
know me. I'm Kevin, Sarah'spartner in crime, bourbon aficionado, discussor
of all things, and father oftwo. We started this podcast because we
saw a big gap between research andpractice, especially when you have a unique
family structure like ours, and wewanted to share what we've learned and hopefully
what we continue about navigating our livesthrough the lens of brain science with a
big old helping of reality mix there. We know there are lots of families

(00:47):
that look like ours, or kindof like art, or maybe look nothing
like ours, which makes finding asingle source of guidance and advice so hard.
But we're going to try to helpyou, so join us as we
try to figure out what's happening here? Are you an inside of the box
player or an outside of the boxplayer, depends on what kind of box

(01:07):
we're talking about. Interesting. Interesting. I think we talk a lot in
our relationship about I mean. Ithink clearly people know I'm fairly outside of
the box. I couldn't stay ina box if I tried. I do
try sometimes, and it's just notsomething that I'm capable of doing. I
could you agree with it? Iwould. Yes. I'm also not a
big fan of rules, which isI think why I can't stay in the

(01:30):
box. Rules for good reasons,I'm okay with. I mean, boxes
are defined by rules. Yes,you're kind of a rule follower. I
am, You're very much a rulefollower. So how has it been to
be in a relationship with someone prettymuch known for now? Hold on?
Let me in my defense. Iam comfortable with certain rules, especially if

(01:53):
I understand them, especially if Ifeel like they are designed in the best
interest of me or in mandy.But if there is a rule, like
even clinically, my whole career isdefined on Okay, here are the rules.
How can we get around them tohelp a child who may not fit
inside the box of school or thebox of this particular set of rules.

(02:14):
Right, So I think you youknow, somebody is in a box because
that's what the rules say. Butthey don't fit in that box. So
you're saying, all right, weneed to get them out of that box.
So how can we maybe change therules so they don't have to sit
in that box? Yeah? AndI think for those who don't know me,
you know, I'm a neuropsychologist,but I didn't really fit in the

(02:35):
neuropsych medical world box. And thenI went into the school world. It
didn't really fit in that box becauseI really just wanted schools are full of
rules. Schools are really full ofrules. They're really full of rules.
And again some of them talk toyour kids, right, Like, every
conversation about school involves rules like don'tput a hood on your head, don't

(02:57):
put a hat on your head.I just I didn't run in the halls.
I feel like you might have randomNo, well then you didn't follow
rules, yeah, because I wasa kid. But now would you run
in the halls, No, youwouldn't. Old how about the kids?
I feel like, uh, Ifeel like my Julianna is a rule follower.

(03:21):
Yeah, harder goes a little backand forth. He wants to follow
the rules, but he's got hismom's You know, this doesn't make sense.
I don't understand it. You haveto tell me or I'm not gonna
follow rules. Yeah, Ruby's Ruby'sa rule follower. Yeah, and she's
she would get anxious about that,and she gets annoyed when other people don't

(03:42):
follows. Oh. Yeah, Iget yelled at by both girls if I
don't follow us, although sometimes theyjust close their eyes. Yeah, Ronan,
I think he's generally a rule follower. I don't think he minds when
other people don't follow the rules,and he's kind of along for the rule
when you don't follow the rules.They don't think rules are really something he

(04:02):
thinks very much about. I thinkit's more like if he's aware of the
rule, yeah, then he'll followit. I agree. But most of
the time he's just kind of hangingand there's a lot happening in his head
that's really fun. So generally awareof a lot weirdness is any one particular
time, Yes, but he is. He's got the coolest things. He's

(04:23):
thinks, aware of what's going oninside his head. Yes, rules are
generally which ps if you want afun time go in there, because a
lot of times that's a really greatplace to be. So I think we
can't even talk about him in termsof rules because he'd have to be aware
of the rules to follow them,and really should we rule him out?
Very nice cheers to that. Yeah, number one. By the way,

(04:46):
if you've listened this far, thisis episode two, season two, Eason
two. Because of sweet we finallynot following the rules here. We just
tell you him about ten minutes inthat it's episode two? Did that bo
are you very much? I wantedto stop you and tell you that we
didn't actually say episode two. Wedidn't say an episode two. You didn't

(05:06):
stop Yes, but I don't knowwhat. Well, let you go.
This is ganging of our relationship becauseyou kind of like that I don't follow
the rules. I'd like to reapthe benefits of your non rule following.
Yes, but it makes me veryanxious. Yes, I really you really
make me uncomfortable when you ask menot to follow the rules, right,

(05:29):
yes, Like like, hey,why don't we go down this path instead
of waiting in this line? AndI'm like, no, no, we
have to wait in the line.Everybody, it says to wait in line,
but the line is actually for somethingcompletely different than what we want,
so we could just go this direction. But I guess there's you know,
I think you live by the mantra, or like there's no harm in asking,

(05:50):
right they should tell you if youcan. Or also it's better to
beg for forgiveness and seek permission.Yeah, whatever that version. I don't
really like asking if I can.I'd rather just try and do well.
What I appreciate about you is thatwhen you were corrected that you then are
tend to be a rule follower,especially if you tell me why, like

(06:13):
if there's a good reason that Ishould be in, you know, following
this rule versus not absolutely, you'renot one of those people who feels entitled
to do whatever they want, whichwe wouldn't be here recording this episode.
No, and you are not somebodywho follows the rules just because you always
have to follow, like you're willingto break that cycle too, or I

(06:34):
think that this wouldn't work. Sothere is some there's some middle that we
both like being pulled to because youknow, for example, like if you
somebody I don't know had cats andthey were pooping, I don't know,
in somebody's garden. You know,for me, I might do something outside
the box with that. I don'tknow. I would, you know,

(06:55):
put something in there they might notlike, maybe I'd put a fence around
it. I don't know I woulddo, and maybe I talk to them,
But you would go through the processof removing said cats appropriately, humanely
and kindly by attempting to contacting,like the mayor of the town, writing

(07:15):
them an email. It wasn't angry, no, no, it was lovely.
Just pointed out that this how theyshould spend their tidinances that are on
the books current exactly. So.You found the ordinances. I looked them
up. You said them, Yeah, this is a lot of word for
word, right, and you suggestedthat they should spend their time being concerned
about those ordinances and the cats.I just asked, if what's the point

(07:40):
of having these rules if they're notgoing to enforce them, right, And
I'm kind of like, what rules? Right? I think that's exactly what
the person across the street, thankstoo, However, I mean there are
other rule followers in the world.Because that person did respond to you and
say we are on the CATA issue. They responded and they're not on the

(08:03):
cat issue. No, So thenthe question becomes is rule following or non
rule following? Well, I thinkyou follow the rules until it's time to
not follow the rules anymore. Thenyou call me and it's getting time to
not follow the rules. Then webring cookies out. And you know what
I'm saying, that we bring cookiesover the neighbors, and there takes over
which I have not, for therecord, taken over yet, because I'm
very respectful of your processes and waysof managing this. Not taking them cookies.

(08:28):
What if the cookies that's a differentthat's a different episode. What if
we bring cookies for their cats thatencourage them to stay all their property.
But i'd use like hate. No, we're using don't mean no, no,
I mean you mainly bring them.Listen, you are, you're a
lover, I don't. I don'twant to bring any harm to these animals

(08:50):
as long as they stay off yourI just would appreciate not having any clean
up after them. Well, andyou don't want any harm to your plants
either, and the things that youwould like to grow in that garden,
yes, yes, which I respect. I'm more meant we can use principles
of behavior science to encourage them tofind things over on their lawn that are

(09:11):
more exciting and interesting than our lawn. Talking about the people, cats,
the cats. We can toss things, we can get things that they're going
to love that are over on theirlawn. Break the patterns, break the
habits. No more on our lawn. I'd like to hear more. And
then we can also talk to thepeople. And that where you go bad,
that's where you go wrong. Youdon't have to talk the moms often

(09:35):
again, hence the way too completelyout of the people they're pub together.
Yeah, yeah, we'll pull theshade. It'll be absolutely fine. A
cross arms crossed and gruff faced hiddenall over a sudden, that's right now.
I think that it's a I thinkthis is the benefit. You know,
they always talk about like opposites attract. We have a lot of similarities

(09:56):
in the way that we think andthe things we prioritize and the way we
want to work on a relationship.But I think rule following is probably I
think it's probably our major opposite inthis case. I would completely agree with
that. Yeah, And I think, like I said, I think,

(10:16):
you know, we tend to have. We have friends that are I think
similar, similar in that one ofthem is a rule follower and one of
them is not so much a rulefollower. Yes, although I think the
rule follower is a little bit moreeasily convinced to be a non rule follower

(10:37):
than I am. Oh yeah,I definitely think so. I mean,
listen, I so when we're together, I tend to be the trailer on
the non You're kind of the onewith the hands over the eyes, trying
to peek through to see this.If it ends up being a good idea,
I'll go over there. If notany long. And you know how
difficult it is to not be noticedwhen you're a person of my size.

(11:01):
I mean, I'm not huge,especially when your hands are impaired. To
the other people around me, like, it's hard to just kind of melt
into the background, especially when yourpartner is like, hey, the girl
exactly. Yeah, here's two squirmingand following or not following rules. I'd

(11:24):
love to know if other people arerule followers or not role followers, because
I didn't even know this was athing, to be very honest, I
didn't even know it was a thinguntil you pointed it out to me because
to me, it's just it's notreally about rules. It's about making sure
you know, you are speaking yourmind in the world, getting the things
that you need and not stepping onother people to get it, for sure,

(11:48):
but just really like you know,sometimes again, line out the door.
Is that line out the door fortakeout? Or is that for a
seat at the restaurant? And typicallyit's for takeout. So if you stand
in the line for half an hourand then you get to the front and
then you realize, you know,then there goes your amy g and then
we're all we're getting kicked out thatrest way to bring it back like we

(12:09):
did the hockey game season. Hey, it's my favorite episode. So well,
we're a year from that tournament.We're going into that same weekend this
weekend. So what have we learnednot to drink champagne prior to the games?
Did we find that all right?To avoid the referee that kicked you

(12:33):
out? Okay, I've already talkedto him, so I know he's a
very nice guy. Actually, heworked out, he's been uh, he
likes he'll tell you why he madea call. We had a very civil
conversation, had a conversation. Ireally during a game. I think that's
because Spider Man took over and hedoesn't remember you. But that's just me.
Let's hope. So because somebody elseI was speaking to the last game

(12:56):
referenced that evening and that event anddid not know she was speaking to the
person that also got kicked out,right because she's just referenced Spider Man.
Well, when there's a TikTok aboutSpider Man, it really takes the care.
I mean, I'm in the TikToktoo. You are in the TikTok
too. We'll post it for peoplewho want to say it's take it down.

(13:20):
Turns out when you write a letterfrom a lawyer who follows the rules,
yeah hey, it turns out asopposed to not following rules where somebody
screen recorded it. So we'll geteverybody. I don't thank you, so
cheers of you follow the rules.Cheers of you don't. We hope that

(13:41):
I hope that you find the partnerthat gives you a nice equilibrium of not
following for the benefit of everybody andfollowing when it benefits everybody. Exactly,
it only pokes you a little bitwhen it benefits everybody. Daily Cheers.
Well, thanks for joining us forthis episode of What's Happening Here? Don't

(14:03):
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After all, we're all in thistogether, just trying to figure out
what's happening here.