Season 2 - Episode 8: All About that Base

Adult friendships are so important to maintaining your sanity but they take effort to build. In this episode we talk about how building the base of those friendships can and will payoff as it is the foundation on which your friendships will stand for years into the future.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to What's Happening Here. Thisis a podcast we're finding the perfect and
balance of being a parent, apartner, and a person without losing the
things that matter most to you inthe process, like your sanity. You
might know me as doctor Sarah,the Brain Gal. I'm a pediatric nurse,
psychologist, and mom of two whotranslates brain science to everyday life.
I see all kids, really allpeople like little brains. You probably don't

(00:23):
know me. I'm Kevin, Sarah'spartner in crime, bourbon aficionado, discussor
of all things, and father oftwo. We started this podcast because we
saw a big gap between research andpractice, especially when you have a unique
family structure like ours, and wewanted to share what we've learned and hopefully
what we continue about navigating our livesthrough the lens of brain science with a
big old helping of reality mix there. We know there are lots of families

(00:47):
that look like ours, or kindof like art, or maybe look nothing
like ours, which makes finding asingle source of guidance and advice so hard.
But we're going to try to helpyou, so join us as we
try to figure out what's happening here. I like you. Oh, that's
a good thing. We'd be shipup creek, up the creek creek.

(01:11):
I thought they're silly about battle.You know what we should do. We
should start over, we should goon a friend That's true. That's true.
And I think that that's kind ofwhat I wanted to talk about that
I still got there talk about.This is our planned intro totally adult friendships.
Actually, because we just came backfrom adult friendship weekend. Yeah,

(01:33):
that's a great theme for an adultfriendship weekend. Yes, And I've been
thinking a lot about this idea ofjust kind of the different types of relationships.
We have, different types of friendshipsthat we have. I mean,
you have lots of different types ofright you have your you know, for
me, it's like the room mommom friends, the gym mom friends,

(01:56):
sport friends, the camp mom friends, the camp mom friends, the John's
friendly market mom friends. Yeah,the farmer's market mom friends. Are you
suggesting a lot of fanners brewing momfriends? Well, and some are more
intimate than others. We will beasking you for sponsorship there, Yeah,

(02:19):
I mean some of them are moreintimate than others. Like I've talked to
my mother about this all the timethat gym friends are these most interesting sets
of friends that you have because they'reintimate friends, because you talk a lot
about you see them every day orhow are you often you go to gym
and you talk about whatever is onyour mind that you need to get out,
and there's usually the most intimate conceptsthat you're talking about. But you

(02:42):
don't see them typically outside of thegym. They just stay in the gym,
like they don't go anywhere. Youjust have So my mom with friends
that just are like live in thegym, they're just like, like my
friend Rocco, you know who Idid, I've seen outside of the gym,
and because he's a very good connector, he's much better than I at
that. But generally speaking, it'ssomebody who just as always goes to the

(03:04):
gym, and so you always aretalking about things and you know a lot
about each other's lives. But youknow, once I changed Jim's you know,
he reached out a couple of times, but other than that, I
don't see him in the same way. Yet he knew every single thing about
my life for a long period time. And I think the interesting thing about
Jim friends is they don't take alot of work. So there was a
period where you saw him a lot, and then I think you saw him

(03:25):
when we were down the shore.Yeah, and because he reached out them,
because he reached out. But wereyou surprised in that instance about how
much he knew about you? BecauseI had been a separation of time,
and like when you got together andyou were talking, did occur to you
like he really knows a lot aboutmy life. It didn't surprise me at
all because my mom and I havehad this conversation for years about it.

(03:46):
Not that we were close at whatI mean, we went to kickboxing together.
That's what we did there and downthe shore. There's a connection point
right to something that you and Ithink it's the endorphins of the exercise and
just at the same well, it'sa brain exercise, right, So it's
a cleansing of the brain from anadorphin standpoint and from an exercise standpoint,
and then also from just being ableto get all of that those emotions out.

(04:11):
And it's a very safe environment todo it. But it is weird
to talk to somebody for so longand then just not then just completely not
really be in your sphere at somepoint, you know, and I think
you know, we know friendships andsocializing are really valuable to the brain.
Like people who are lonely or peoplewho don't have friends. We see like
increases in cortisol, the stress hormone, so which will then eat away at

(04:35):
the hippocampus of your brain, thepart for learning a memory, and so
you start to see cognitive decline inpeople who don't socialize very much. So
we know the brain likes it,and we know, you know, you
start to develop, you develop itslowly over time, Like you can go
all it back. I mean,if we think about our kids, right,
you can go all the way backto like you know, kind of
babies and younger kids feeling like they'rejust trying to figuring out that they have

(04:58):
thoughts and feelings, right, andthen eventually they figure out that, you
know, they think that other peoplehave the same thoughts and feelings they do.
You know, you ask a littlekid like, you know, what
do you want to get your friendfor their birthday? Or what do you
want to get your dad for hisbirthday? And they're like, oh,
let's get him you know, roadblocksor whatever whatever they like, right,
and then over time, they startto realize that other people have thoughts that

(05:20):
are different than them. It's calledtheory of mind. That you get that
this person can think something different thanyou, that they have different perspectives.
That's what we've talked about before.And then you start to, like middle
school, want to see if youcan change their perspective by socially manipulating them.
Right, That's why middle school sucksus because yeah, well, and

(05:44):
especially for some of our different brainswho who aren't quite caught up on that
yet. You know, they're justtrying to figure out that other people have
thoughts that are different and these peopleare trying to socially manipulate them. That's
why it creates that bad match there. But then over time, I think
you'd start to develop Okay, peoplehave thoughts that are different than my own.
I can manipulate those thoughts or Ican appreciate those thoughts. And then
over time you develop these more intimatefriendships and teenage years, it becomes like

(06:10):
your brain actually likes to socialize,you know it once it gets a lot
out of friendships. That's why teenagersdon't like to hang out with their parents.
It's exactly why teenagers don't like tohang out with their parents. So
it's their brain. It's the problems. I mean in general with teenagers,
their brain is the problem. Ithink that should be a bumper sticker,
that should be a T shirt.Oh there sell those at the high school.
Yeah, school fundraiser idea. It'stheir brain. That's their brain,

(06:34):
that's their problem. And then youknow, it's interesting though, because I
think in teenage years, you're youknow, you're really attached very closely together,
you know, like they kind ofget these really close intimate friendships very
quickly. Right, you probably stillremember you still, I know you still
remember like Mandy, you know,you're you're a friend you grew up with
that. It just creates such aclose relationship, you know, I have

(06:56):
my teenage friends to that creates sucha close relationship because as you get this
you know, kind of dopamine rush, You get these feel good chemicals from
hanging out with your friends. Right. But then you become an adult and
I think you have like a partnershipor you have kids, and you get
that feeling from those places, andyou like lose contact sometimes with you know,
with lots and lots of friends,right, yeah. Yeah, you

(07:19):
know, I remember my sister wasin a sorority and she called and she
was talking about how close those relationshipswere. She's like kind of right on
that cusp of like you know,younger kind of like old teenage brain and
then more adult brain. And youknow, she just said how close those
relationships. She was expecting so muchfrom those relationships. And I just said
to her, remember these relationships aredifferent than like something you would have with

(07:42):
your sister or something you're episodic.Oh that's a great term. Yeah,
yeah, I think they kind ofare there. It's like this you can
read book, Oh did you chapter? We have a kid's brain book coming
out and say her friend of podcast, Yeah, yeah, like a whole
separate podcast to somebody else's book.But yeah, I think that it's interesting

(08:05):
the way that they morph and thenall of a sudden you turn around and
you know, you you went fromhaving so meant maybe like like for my
sister a ton of friends to themhaving a few goes into my friends.
And I think it's interesting because youknow, in my experience, aside from
our life shared experience of going througha divorce, which change you know,

(08:28):
turns can turn your adult friendships upsidedown. You know, that's a whole
separate topic, but just maintaining theeffort that goes into maintaining those adult friendships.
And I'm talking about you know,the ones that are really meaningful to
you, that have a depth tothem. Yeah, and you know,

(08:48):
there's something to be said for casualfriendships of that come from you know,
your kids, you know, theother sports parents that you're you know,
if you're in a small town oryou're in a school and you see the
same parents all the time, andyou might go out for drinks after you
know, back to school night atyour local watering hole for years on end,

(09:11):
and it would be one of yourfavorite nights of the year. And
you know, like you do thatand then there's people and you see them
occasionally and you get to catch upand you know, if you're a good
match and you're a good group,like catching up is fairly easy. Your
conversations probably tend to certain you know, around the kids, but it's always
interesting. Like the friends that Ihave that are close, they you know,

(09:35):
some of them come from the friendshipsof that were formed through my children.
But we when we get together andwe talk, you know, it's
we'll talk about the kids if wehaven't seen each other in a bit or
they haven't seen the kids. Butand then we're off on wherever our conversations
tend to go. And because you'reyou're in the same wavelength, because there's

(09:58):
a depth to them that's beyond justhey, how are you good to see
again? How's the kids? How'sthe fact? Okay? Great? And
then you run out of things totalk about, right because you have this
You've built up this this base,this depth, and you know each other
so well, and you know youlove and care about each other, and
and you know, even though youdon't get to see them as much,

(10:22):
there's you know, there's a youhave that I guess you just have that
base to stand on well. Andit is an intimate base, you know,
which is different I think than someof the younger friendships and some of
the middle friendships. And that isreally interesting. So there's some something like
a temporal factor, like like atime factor of just being around people for

(10:43):
a long time. So I thinkthat's where some of the especially younger sports
friends, you know, kids,friends, parents come from. Is you
see each other all the time,so you kind of like just know generally
about each other's lives and about what'shappening in the world. And yes,
it does, you know, kindof evolve revolve around the children, but
there also is just other talk inbetween. And you've been around each other

(11:03):
so much show it's easy to pickup from where you left off. You
don't have to remember to tell thewhole backstory, right you know them?
Yeah, But you're right. Interms of the level of intimacy, it's
kind of a surface level. Youknow, you see, you say hi,
You're very comfortable. It's fun,but there isn't as much of a
depth to that because the depth takestime and effort, right, and I
and those to me, you know, I always say I don't have a

(11:24):
ton of friends. I have someclose friends. Again, doesn't involve those
people that you see a lot andyou say hi and whatever you will go
out with. But you know,the friends, the really close friends,
the people that that I've come tovalue over time, is always being there.
You get a divorce, something happens, you know, you know who
you can call, They're going tobe there. Those those kinds of people,

(11:45):
the ones you can look at andthey know everything without you having to
speak, you know, right,Like, that's an intimacy that takes effort.
Yeah, and you know it doestake effort, and the payoff of
that effort will come both as you'rebuilding that base, you know, you're
you're building that friendship, and thenyears down the line when you're you're haven't

(12:07):
seen them in weeks or months,you know, even depending on years maybe
if they're you know, you're separatedby a pandemic or what have you.
You know that you the payoff asimmediate. You sit down in a room
together, you just see them,You get to you know, you get
to talk to them where you justtalk to him on the phone. And
it's that everybody knows. Everybody hasthese friends. Yeah, hopefully you do

(12:30):
where you pick up like that andit's not a time factor, right then
it becomes not a time factor,whereas the more like superficial friendships are much
or very time based, right yousee them consistently, But the ones that
are more intimate don't have that timefactor. Like you said, you can
just pick up. But I thinkwe also sometimes forget. We talk a
lot about our relationship, our relationshipwith the children, how we relate to

(12:52):
them all and we talk about it, talk a lot about relationship, talk
a lot about But I think it'sinteresting to think about these adult ships in
that way, you know, becauseit's so easy with the sports friends.
You know, they do something youdon't like, well you just don't really
talk to them again, you know, or you talk to them or whatever.
It's not really worth the conflict.But what's interesting to me about a
lot of these adult friendships and Ihave I'm blessed to have a couple of

(13:16):
them, and it has been interestingto me to disappoint them or for them
to disappoint me, and to beable to have a conversation about that and
work through that in almost the sameway you would work through like we would
work through our relationship, because thatis so valuable. Do you know what
I mean? I do know whatyou mean Coming from to somebody who disappoints
people a lot, No, it'sand you know, it's really powerful when

(13:41):
you're in a bad spot, badplace, and you may disappoint those people
and they are still there and theydon't give up on you, right,
they don't walk away from you.They're there to hear you out and to
help you be your best self andthat's it doesn't doesn't take a lot of

(14:03):
people. But you know, ifyou have four to six or even one
or two of those, even oneor two, you know that that can
mean the world to somebody. Yeah, and I think there's a dynamic,
you Like, I can think ofsome of my friendships that were actually formed
younger that are almost like siblings tome, you know, like some of
those friendships where I really don't seethem very often, but when I do,

(14:26):
we fall back into the same patterns. You know. One of my
friends, you know, can bea bit of a mess sometimes, and
I'm always the one that's kind oflike kind of picking it up or putting
it back together. And whenever shesees me, she'll just cry, like
it's like she can let out whatever'shappening. It's like somebody has finally seen
her. Right, because I knowher, I know everything about her,

(14:48):
and I'm still showing up, right. You know, do we hang out
all the time, No, youknow, our even our families we don't.
I mean, our extended families hangout a little bit more. But
I really don't see her very much. But it's as if I saw her
yesterday and knew everything about her.Right away, as soon as we look
at each other, you know,and then you have friendships, you know,
formed over the course of time thatthe most poignant moments in those friendships

(15:11):
have been when you know, eitherthey've done something that I didn't like,
you said something that really upset me, or you know, the other way
around, that I did something thatthey didn't like, and that it wasn't
just like they're angry and they're goingto yell or something like that. It's
a really thoughtful like the other personthem being able to hear me, you
know, this really hurt my feelings, you know, like I didn't like

(15:35):
that, but I know that theydon't ever want to hurt me, right,
I know that that won't be thething, and they know that they
wouldn't want to hurt me, andthey would feel bad about that too,
you know. And you know,I wish I could think of a good
example right off the back, butit's important that they're willing to They're so
invested in the relationship and the friendshipthat even though they may not agree with

(15:56):
how about what it is you're talkingout there, they're invested enough to hear
you out, yeah, invested enoughto say, well, I'm sorry you
feel that way. I didn't meanto make you feel that way. I
hate that you feel that way.I never right. I let's let's you
know, I won't do that again. We're all think about that next time.
You know, that kind of thing, and it goes the same way.

(16:18):
Like I feel like there's been timeswhere you know, I've you know,
like I said I would joking before, you know, I disappointed a
lot of people, you know,and but for them to still be there.
First of all, I don't thinkthat that's true. Well, I
don't think that you've disappointed a lotof people. I think that you've been
disappointed by people, and I thinkthat sometimes maybe you've done things that you
wish you had done differently. ButI don't think it's that. I think

(16:41):
that you may have been taught thatyou've disappointed people, but I don't think
that you tend to. As amatter of fact, I think you're one
of these people that holds, aswe've talked about, holds such a high
bar on yourself that you feel thatway more so than other people even feel
that way. Maybe for sure.S Delving more into our couch time on

(17:03):
Friday, Yes, our therapy today, we're going to put this on our
list for later. Apparently we are. But again, like even even me
as a friend to you, likethe fact that I don't like that you
said that about yourself, you know. And I think having that kind of
relationship with people who are outside ofyour personal you know, kind of your
partnership right is a really interesting thing. And it does take work. It

(17:26):
takes work to say to somebody,I didn't like that, and I would
like you to not do that.I love you, but I don't like
that, and I can you,you know, do me a favor and
not do that again. And thisis why it hurts my feelings because again
it's bringing you closer, it's lettingthem gain some of that theory of mind
we talked about earlier, and understandthat you have a different perspective and that
this isn't something like this is aline, is something you don't like.

(17:48):
And it really is amazing when yousit across from the table somebody and they
say, did you know, likeI don't, I didn't intend did I
do something is that you know?And you're like, no, you didn't.
I I was the one who wasthinking in my head that I you
know, and like you were tobe able to have that open dialogue with
somebody where you know, like youcan share those those you know you don't

(18:14):
you can do it in a waythat you're not worried that they're going to
be upset with you, that they'rewilling to hear you and to say I
didn't I didn't intend to do that, or I'm sorry that that's how you
feel. You know, that wasn'tmy intention, blah blah blah, whatever
it is. But that's all builton the base of the friendship that you've
both worked on, that you're bothworking right, and you're right there is

(18:36):
a two way street. Like Ithink for you, you do sometimes get
in your head and thinking, likewe've talked about, kind of cynical thoughts
right, like thinking either I don'tknow why you would say that, you
always think the worst, but youget down this train and you need sometimes
people to say like, hey,what did I do? Something like what's

(18:56):
up? And then as soon asyou talk to them, you know it's
like okay, and you just clearthe air and you and you realize it.
And then having the freedom in aclose friendship to be able to say
I just got in my head,man, Like that's just kind of where
I was. Then you know they'rea close friend because otherwise you have to
say, you know, yeah youdid something, and this must be you,
this must be the other person.But those intimate friendships, you know,

(19:17):
there's they are so valuable and it'sI feel like you found one when
it's worth the time to talk tothem, because otherwise it's not worth it.
Yeah, I've learned that there aresome that are not worth it.
Yeah, and I'm going to followyou down that cynical path because I agree
with you in their So yeah,I think that you do quickly learn that

(19:40):
there are people that are worth thetime to do that and there are people
who aren't. And even from abrain chemistry standpoint, like you you do
get the dopamine and the oxytocin we'vetalked about in the past, that kind
of connection chemical and and that kindof like love chemical, and you start
to kind of you get in sync, you know what I mean, Like
you get in our cycles matchup.It kind of good thing. I'm sitting

(20:03):
gross if you're nuts about um,but yeah, I mean in a sense
kind of like you know, youstart to think similarly, you you know,
you walk some of the acts similatedbecause and some of that has to
do with just time again being aroundeach other a lot, if you're around
each other a lot in a partnership, but in these extended friendships that you
don't see each other a lot,to be able to pick right up and

(20:25):
to be able to get those immediatechemicals in the brain so quickly, like
there, it's just kind of thatlike it's almost like the love at first
site concept, you know, inthe sense that you're just so immediately connected.
It's really interesting to me that thereare people that you could not see
for a really extended period of timeand just pick up right where you left,
all right, and feel so likeso connected at that at that depth.

(20:52):
And I have seen you know,you and me both work very hard
at as we've gotten older, youknow, and come out of that time
period of just friends of our kids. You know, once you kind of
come out of the just the friendsof your kids, and you're just all
kind of together just because you're together, and there's certain people you meshed with
a little better than others, butyou really stay in those lanes to like

(21:12):
moving into Wow, what do Ilike, what do I want who do
I want to engage with? Whocares what's important in life? And then
you find those people that you knoware the people that are important in life,
are the people that that do createthese intimate connections with and that you

(21:33):
just you know, you realize,Wow, these are worth as much time
as as my partnership, right,you know, like you see all these
memes about like ways to keep yourmarriage going. You know, I almost
want to make some for like,don't forget your friendships. That's weird those
memes don't follow up up in myfeet, you must be I'm looking at
others. I have a lot ofmom blogs, have a lot of blogs

(21:56):
on my aim, my algorithms different, what do you get nothing, that's
an entirely different podcast. So butI think also, you know, like
as as much as we understand thevalue of these friendships, you know,
and it is this might surprise you, but I'm going to the downside of
it is that you run into peopleand you're like, yeah, we could

(22:19):
be really good friends. We couldwe could be those friends that we have.
We just don't get the time tosee them as much as we want
to because you know, they're busywith their lives. We're busy with our
lives and trying to sink those up, you know, because it's just like
at something when you're you know,this point of our lives, we've met

(22:41):
I think people, you know,couples even that we both are you know,
really excited to hang out with andtoo, because we get along with
and you know, and then we'rejust like we saw those people more often
because I feel like we could reallybe we could really be really good friends
if we had the time to investin it that we've had in the past,

(23:03):
to invest in other friendships, inthese other friendships. And I find
that myself, like every time we'llhang out with some of these people,
I'll be like really love them,like I love hanging out with them.
I'm bomb that we don't have moreof a chance to hang out and get
to see them. And it's andyou know, it's it's not like anybody's
avoiding it. It's just sometimes it'sreally difficult. And I feel for those

(23:25):
people who don't have those relationships theones we're talking about and are close,
you know, are close to havingthem with some people, but they're maybe
at the stage in their lives wherethey just don't have the time, or
those other folks are busy and theydon't have the time. How about the
people who get close but choose notto invest, you know, like you
get close, but a conflict happens, and you choose to not go through

(23:48):
that conflict to breed that change,like to make that level next level of
intimacy. I think that's what happensin a lot of friendships. Well,
is something happens and then nobody putsthe effort into it. Well, I
think that that's also you know,maybe this is my bias showing, but
I think if those people aren't willingto get past the conflict and to put
the effort in that, you're savingyourself a whole lot of time in trouble.

(24:11):
Right, But one of you hasto start, you know, we've
talked about this before, like somebodyhas or nobody can initiate and try and
if that is not returned, right, but I mean to not even try,
Like we're all moving a million milesan hour, and this is kind
of like regular relationships like dating,right, Like sometimes it's just not the
right place, right time, butmaybe it will be at one point.

(24:32):
But I find it what you saidreally interesting about you know, about the
friendships that we have that don't thatwe don't get to spend more time with,
you know, like some of themwe've really been able to invest in,
and some of them had. Andthen we have friends like our friends
Sean and Nicole, who it's likean instant connection that you absolutely adore each
other, like you would be therefor them, like if they called us,

(24:53):
we'd be there, like went totheir wedding. But if you really
look at it, we don't hangout with them a lot. We love
it every time we get well that'sbecause they're out gallivanting. I know,
they travel all over galivant, soI know, I'm so excited for them.
They're they're so happy. It's solovely to see them. But that's
what I mean, Like, there'sjust some people that you just instantly connect.
It's totally mutual. We don't,like we both of us want to,

(25:15):
we just don't always get to andwe both kind of seem to understand
that. But there's an intimacy inthat friendship at the same time, just
from suddenly like so what's the chemistryof that? You know, when I
think about brain chemistry and I thinkabout connection. It is really interesting that
some people you just connect with andsome people you're gonna partner with, some
people you're a friend with. Well, I think that you know that comes

(25:37):
with I think one of the Iwould imagine one of the connection points is
some of that at this point inyour life is shared experiences and shared values,
shared values, shared experiences where youhave you know, you may not
have the depth of years of friendship, but you have the depth of shared

(25:57):
experiences. Ye know, you knowwhat they've been through, you know what
they're going through, and you knowyou can you can connect on that right
and that creates a value that youknow can be as as impactful and as
meaningful as you know, friendships thathave lasted since elementary school. Yeah,

(26:21):
and I think from a brainstandpoint,you know the connection. Remember, we
tend to categorize and group things andlike things that we find similar. You
know, we enjoy the connection andwe put those you know, what we
already know. We put the newinformation on top of what we already know.
So it's easier when it's all thoseshared things. You know. So
you're right. I absolutely think you'reright. The shared experiences really help and

(26:44):
that it can create some of thatintimacy very very quickly. And it's so
important in our lives to create thesekinds of friendships, like so much so
that you know, I've said itbefore another podcasts, but it's we can
see that it's preventative for dementing conditionslike Alzheimer's, like socialization, connection relationships,
um, not just with your partners, but with friendships in the in

(27:07):
these kind of intimate relationships are canprevent you from dementia. Like that's an
old joke, are you like punchincoming? What that you're old or that
you're I mean, I forgot howwhat you started them? Yeah? And
I guess that's the point here islike it's these adult friendships are worth it.

(27:29):
They're worth a time and effort andenergy from both You're helping your brain
stay witty and happy and engaged,right, and then just also just the
feeling good and feeling connected, becausethat's the thing that we really need most
in the world. So don't payattention just to your relationships, you know,
with your partners, right, butyou know your friendships are important.

(27:52):
Your friendships are important to date nightfriendships, nights, you know, these
are very important absolutely cheers, cheers, well. Thanks for joining us for
this episode of What's Happening Here.Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube page
or you can follow me on Instagramat Doctor Sarah l Allen and Kim shows
up a lot there too. Besure to tell a friend what you liked
about this episode and share it withthem. After all, we're all in

(28:15):
this together, just trying to figureout what's happening here.