Season 3 - Episode 4: I Don't Want No Consequence, Consequence, Consequence....

Ahhh, consequences...one of the tricky areas of parenting. It can be challenging to force yourself to let your kids learn from their own actions. Why is it so hard?!  In this episode, we delve into some recent examples of how we've navigated these situations, some successfully and others, well, not so much...

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to What's Happening Here. Thisis a podcast for finding the perfect imbalance
of being a parent, a partner, and a person without losing the things
that matter most to you in theprocess. Like you're Sennity, you might
know me as doctor Sarah the BrainGal. I'm a pediatric neuros psychologist and
mom of two who translates brain scienceto everyday life. I see all kids,
really all people like little brains.You probably don't know me. I'm

(00:24):
Kevin, Sarah's partner in crime,Bourbon Afcinado, discusser of all things,
and father of two. We startedthis podcast because we saw a big gap
between research and practice, especially whenyou have a unique family structure like ours,
and we wanted to share what wehave learned and hopefully what we continue
about navigating our lives through the lensof brain science with a big old helping
of reality. Next day, weknow there are lots of families that look

(00:47):
like ours, we're kind of likeour, or maybe look nothing like ours,
which makes finding a single source ofguidance and advice so hard. But
we're going to try to help you. So join us as we try to
figure out what's happening here. SoI don't know if you've noticed this about
me, but since we've gotten married, you might have realized something that I'm

(01:07):
not great at. Oh, thisis a great topic conversation to start podcasting.
Do you want me to guess ordo you want to I want to
let you know. Not great withsaying no to the kid. Which is
very funny because you're also like thefirst one to express your emotions about how

(01:27):
you feel about the kids doing something. Yeah, this is well, this
is the conundrum. I have ahard time when they, you know,
need something and they've put themselves intoa situation where they need assistance, and

(01:48):
I have a hard time letting themlearn that lesson that if you had remembered
that thing, like I told youfive times, you wouldn't be in the
situation. I would not be inthis situation, Like, I have a
hard time, like not fixing thatproblem for them, right, Like they
forget their lunch and you feel likeyou would have to bring that compleets.

(02:08):
Yes, school, you know chromebook. You know I have a hard time
being like, well, not myproblem. Well, and I think I
fall to the other extreme of this. Yes, well, my mother will
tell you she grew up where youyou had your you didn't get help.
You know, you walked up hillboth ways, you walked home in the

(02:29):
cold. You you did everything yourself. So she would have never expected anybody
to bring anything to her. SoI think as I grew up, it
just wasn't a thing for me either, right, Well, I don't know
when you grew up with, Well, it was similar. I mean it
was interesting, So it was similar. They didn't bring new stuff. Well,
they're both working, right, Somy mom was a teacher and my
dad worked as an accountant. Soif I forgot something at home, like

(02:51):
they were both gone by time,or I was going to school and they
were out the door, so therewas nobody to bring it. That's very
interesting to me because you are suchthe other extreme of this. So like
if I missed the late bus rightat five point forty five after football practice
or some other reason, I waslike sol like I had to you know,

(03:14):
if I called them for a ride, they would not be happy about
having to come get me. Therewere a number of times where I walked
home from school, which if youprobably this is a probably great example for
you because you don't know how farthat is. I'm not very good with
geography. Yeah, it's a longway, it's it's I would say it's
probably at least five miles. Yeah, but you know so I can recall

(03:37):
at least three times where I walkedhome and I did it all my own.
I didn't Why do you think itwas more Why do you think it
wasn't more than that? Because Iwas on time? Why were you because
I didn't want to have to walkhome? Because you learned a lesson?
Yes, I know. Well,listen, in your defense, I go
to the other extreme. I amlike, you forgot your lunch. There's
food there. You there's a backup. You might not like the food there,

(03:58):
but you're not going to starve,right, You're going to come home.
There's going to be food there.Right, So I lean to you
can go to practice without your leads. You'll run around, you'll do whatever,
You'll borrow something like, you'll figureit out and guess what the next
time, you won't forget them.Right. I have a hard time with
that because it makes me very uncomfortable. It does. I want to fix
the problems I think that is wehave. We talked about this a little

(04:20):
bit about how I have a theoryabout how our parent generation was so hands
off that you know, and wethis our kids, you know, people
our age kind of talk about howmy age lived, you know, wild
and free, you know, likewe were out all the time, you

(04:40):
know, and you know, becausethey were most of those families were like
working, you know, two parentsand two parent families, you know,
working kids. You know. Like, so, I think we as a
generation of parents are over correcting forthe O when we're parents who you know,

(05:01):
we're trying to pull themselves up andwork and get you know, food
on the table kind of thing.And they weren't always around, and now
we are like, Okay, maybeyou guys were weren't around a little too
much, right, Maybe you gaveus a little too much freedom. So
you're compensating because I yeah, soI feel like I might be the compensator.
Well, and I think, firstof all, just a little spoiler,

(05:24):
I think the answer is probably somewherein the middle. But I know,
I think, I, uh,well, let me give you a
little perspective them. So what Isee in schools, you know, going
around schools, seeing a lot ofkids, a lot of teachers, a
lot of parents having run you know, I ran to school with lots of
different kids in it for a while, and you know what I see as
the consequence of not building skills andsaving them. Right, we saw a

(05:47):
lot of helicoptering at one point,pulling in. We're a little better now,
but you know, swooping in andsaving my kid can't feel bad.
You know he failed the test.Well, you didn't give him enough to
study, you know, instead ofcoming in and saying, okay, how
do we support that so it's nota failure next time? What could he
do? What could we do?Right? It's always like, well you,
you as the teacher, didn't dosomething, so my kid is or

(06:09):
let's give everybody participation trophies and notlet them feel bad. Well, I
think this is this is also partof the connunbu Like I don't. I
don't blame others for their failings,Like right, you don't, finely don't
the kids are the fuck ups,Like they're the ones that are screwing.
No, you definitely don't do that, And I make sure that like,
hey, you know, I tryto throw in a little guilt there,

(06:30):
like you're creating this consequence for mebecause you were inconsiderate, or you weren't
thoughtful or you were you didn't doyour job. So now it's impacting me,
and it's taking away me from timethat I'm supposed to be working or
time that i'm you know, tryingto get something, squeeze in something for
myself in between where I need tobe for you, you know. So

(06:53):
I try to try to tell eitheryell at them or guilt them. Yeah,
sometimes it's a common and tell themthat they should understand this. Yes,
I know where you're going, andis this does it work path well?
Because we all do it. It'snot just you. I could do
it. I did it. Idid it with Juliana the other day,
you know, where I was tryingto teach a lesson of She's been pushing

(07:16):
me a lot lately. It's everything. It's we get this, and then
she wants that, and then this, and she wants more and more and
more. And I talked to herabout it and she wanted what did she
want an say, Abel, youknow, and it was right after you
know, we're doing all of thesethings for her and things, and so
I said no, and she pushedand I just want to say get me,
and I say Abel, and I'msaying, you know, I could
have maybe gotten it and decided tohold the hard line. You watched me,

(07:40):
You were there, you were watchingme do this, and I think
at some point you even said likeyou might have given in at some point,
well after she left the room,yes, yeah, oh yeah you
and and we'll go into like thebut you were quiet at that moment.
But even you know, I questionedmyself as a parent all the time.
Well I think that kind of wentsomething like this. You know, she
was off the room and I said, wow, you really that was a

(08:01):
press like you held a lot becauseI was she was really putting the press
on like that was hardcore. Andthen as soon as she left, I
was like, do you think weshould get on right? And I'm like,
you can't do it now, rightlike you you held your line.
You've built up this, this definitelydefine the line, and now you can't
give in. And this is whygood partner is really important, right because

(08:22):
I know that, I know that, like I teach this, I know
this, but still when you doit, you still feel bad. It's
still hard. It's hard to teachthose skills. And so going back to
you, you know, I thinkyou want to bring it because you know
what that's going to mean for them, and it's going to be hard for
them to deal with that. Butwhat I wanted to say is, and
I've seen this in schools too,even with this is even true for admin's

(08:43):
trying to give professional development to teacherswhere they're like, we've talked about this
all the time. We talk abouthow they might kids might have trauma history,
or we talk about how behavior isa message and you know it's the
end of something you to listen toit. But they but they don't hear
you. Well, they don't hearyou because how do you learn something.
You learn something with your own consequenceswhen something happens to you. So here

(09:05):
you have a situation where you knowyou're you're bringing things to them and you
want things to change, and youthink by telling them, look how much
this was impactful for me. Lookwhat happened to me because of this.
Can't you see kids without funnels,without Franni's, which they're all kids up
through twenty five, right, don'tcan't understand that unless they experience the AMG

(09:26):
the emotion themselves. I know,right, But my point is like even
with that, I know that andit's still hard for me. And I
think you add to this complication oflike, we have goals for all of
our kids, what they need tolearn right consideration we've talked about on previous
seasons is very important to both ofus. But you know, we know,

(09:46):
I know it's hard to remember things. I have a terrible memory.
I have strategies that I use totry to keep myself. So I will
go out to a car, mycar, and put something in it.
So in the morning, when I'mrunning out the door and I completely forget
about it, it's in the car. When I rem like, I don't
try to rely he's in the fridge. Yes, I don't rely on the
fact that I'll remember in the morning. I use a strategy for when I

(10:07):
forget. Yeah, but I learnedthat because these consequences of my behavior were
my own. Right. So that'stricky, because how do you remember to
pick your sister up? Oh?Yes, well, this brings us to
how do you teach these kids skillsright? Right? Because because when you
he's cute, though, this isthe problem. He's very sweet, and

(10:28):
he's he's lovable, and he's kindand in the moment he feels like he
if he forgot that, you'd beupset about it. I just can't remember
in the next moment to pick herup. Right. Well, So the
story is, the context is thatRonan, we asked him to drop Ruby
off at a softball lesson when bothof us were busy. We're coming out,

(10:50):
I was, I was out ofstate at work. Yes, and
I asked him to drop her offfor half an hour lesson four o'clock,
four o'clock, drop her off,and she'd done at four thirty. He's
somewhere along the lines. Was convincedthat it was like five o'clock. Now,
this is after both you have remindedhim. Ruby is very good at

(11:11):
this. She knows her brother.She told him multiple times in the car,
told him when she got out exactlywhat time, so he didn't know
it's on his phone, Yes,because I put everything in the calendar,
right, So you use lots ofstrategies to help him. Yes. Yes,
And at four thirty, when Iwas on my way home and still,
you know, ways away from pickinghim, and I had barely gotten

(11:33):
home, she was calling and saying, I can't get a hold of runnin
right. Where is he? Andmy first thought is there's something wrong.
Oh that wasn't my first well myfirst thought, you know, I'm like,
okay, well, what happened tohim? My first thought was he's
sleeping, right, and I thinkI'm driving, which I could see while
he was still trying to figure outlike where. So I realized that I

(11:54):
do his life through sixteen. He'sat home, So I call him and
call him, and Ruby calls him. I called him, and she's texting
me and calling me, and I'msaying, she's like, should I text
him again? Yes? Should IX man? Yes? Should I call
him? Yes? Well, Icalled him three times, call him for
right, It's okay, it's okayto be a bug yard. And I
just called him and called him andcalled him, called him. Finally I

(12:15):
think we figured out that, youwell, finally I just went and picked
her up because it's at this point, you know, we're not we're pretty
close, and luckily I've been home, so yes, And I just kept
thinking, I, you know,if he's sleeping, like, where's the
where what you once woke them upwith a leaf blower? I was thinking,
Okay, here's the leaf blower.You know what kinds of thing?
Where could these consequences be right,and so uh he finally answers the phone

(12:39):
and I'm like, Rodan, whatare you doing? And he goes,
I thought it was five o'clock.See he never said that to us.
Well, he told me that,and I said, Roe, I told
you it was four thirty. Yoursister told me it was flour thirty and
it's on the calendar on your phone, right, that's four thirty. What
were you doing? Oh? Iwas playing on the right, which is

(13:01):
Ruby's guest. By the way,Ruby won that bet. Yeah, that's
what she taught and so you know, then we proceeded to have a conversation
about you had a conversation was onesided. It was yeah, it was
about what did it actually looks like? You could tell people? They won't
tell me. A lot of yellingm hm, smiled, cursing. Well,

(13:22):
you were expressing yourself, your rightand a little bit of guilt attempt.
But it's hard to guilt trip thembecause, like you're saying, their
frontal lobe just isn't there. Ithink that's where all the guilt sits,
like in their frontal lobe. Idon't think they get guilt rows frontal lobes
because you have to pull out.Amy respond, I don't think that they
understood, but he also in themoment is like, you're right, I

(13:45):
should have picked her up. Ican't believe I missed it. And then
and then it's like deflating in youryelling sale because it's like, you know,
he's he in that moment, heunderstands that that he's sorry and he
and he wouldn't want to put anybodyout. He's not a kid that like
is being selfish for the sake ofbeing selfish. He's not trying to put
other people out. No, hejust didn't He didn't have a strategy for

(14:07):
remembering right. And we know thathis brain works that way, and we
have put a lot of things inplace to try to help him. But
this is the frustrating part, isthat they're not working. Yes, and
I think it's for the same reasonwe've talked about before, and this goes
back and this even adds to likeour dynamic right as co parents. We've
talked about this before, so youknow this whole thing happens. Just to

(14:30):
let finish the story, and Ithink it was a couple days later,
I said to him, you putme out because you came home. You
just went home. I had tostop what I was doing, go get
Ruby, then drop her off toyou, then come back. So that's
an hour out of my workday ina week where you know, things are
really picking up for me, andthat's a significant time. And then I
have to take all the kids everywhereand do everything. So I lost a

(14:52):
good hour that I needed and hedidn't you know, I didn't harp on
it. I didn't respond the wayyou did. You know. I just
came in and basically was like,Oh, we'll find a way to make
you can make this up to me, right, That was my strategy more
than ever. And then I forgetwhat we were doing. But oh,
I know, Ruby and I wentto get our nails done. You know.
Another day, and Ronan was atthe high school and he was supposed

(15:13):
to pick Ruby up after he didn'tknow that at the time. Ruby was
texting him to let him know,Hey, when you're done practice, can
you come pick me up? Andhe never answered her again. He snapchatted
and he did all these other thingson his phone. So he picked up
his phone and looked at it,but he either saw the text and didn't
look at it. Which I don't. I don't even think he looked at

(15:33):
it, to be very honest.So he went all the way home right
before, and we called him.And this is another time where I'm like,
yeah, call him until he picksup. So he picks up it
after like five rings, and Isaid, okay, you know I didn't
have cash with Marbers, and man, I needed to bring cash if you
have it, and come get Ruby. And for me, I'm like,
this is perfect because I could takeRuby home. But in this scenario it's

(15:54):
literally something you know, he canknow it back. It's annoying, which
is what you want. You wantsome kind of AMYG response to say,
hey, this is another time youhaven't looked at your phone. Same concept.
You didn't pay attention to it,You didn't look at it when you
could have. And now if it'sannoying to you, maybe next time you'll
take a peek at it. Thisis my train of thought. But what
happened I only remembered halfway into yourstory. Yes, don't worry, I

(16:15):
remembered. Do you want to tellthem you didn't have any cash? Right?
And he came downstairs and said,I don't have any cash. They
need cash and I said, fine, I'll go get them right, so
I'll stop and get cash, rightand get because you wanted to solve our
problem what you thought was our problemright, right. And then you were

(16:37):
very upset with me because you're like, you didn't tell me yes, right,
And I was like, but youdidn't ask sure, yes, We
had this long? We had this. Actually, our conversations really went pretty
quickly over this. It just wasa lot of emotion in the middle because
I'm frustrated because here I'm trying toteach a lesson, right, and I
feel like you're trumping me, butyou are upset with me. I didn't

(16:57):
realize you're trying to teach right becauseI didn't directly tell you. I thought
it was just solving, helping solvethe problem, right, because you want
to fix the problems right. Soit's gotten the way of fixing them right.
So now here you and I arelike at it a little bit.
But I think this is where thislike additional like just co parenting together,
but also then this like coach andassistant coach concept kind of come in.

(17:21):
And I think as we've were marriedand as we're doing more and more together,
these lines are really interesting. SoI've always tried not to step over
them. But as we connect moreand we're engaged more, and I'm taking
kids independently and these kinds of thingsthat we have more of these conversations now
I'm trying to It didn't. Idon't think it occurred to you to check
with me, And it didn't occurto me to tell you right right,

(17:42):
I didn't even know you were aroundfirst of all, or wouldn't. But
uh so it's this, it's reallyan interesting thing. And and and the
point of it being wanting row tohave an experience himself that makes it so
he creates behavior change. Right,You create behavior change by experience something in
your image happens that feels uncomfortable,so you decide to make that change.

(18:04):
And I think that that it's verycomplicated to do it. It feels weird,
like you didn't want him to feelbad. You don't want me to
feel bad, you don't want rubyto feel bad, but somebody had to
feel bad to learn something. Yeah, And I also to that you know
that picking the right consequence for thatis challenging. Because that night that he
forgot her, I was like,all right, well then you're taking her

(18:26):
to hockey practice tonight, right,And and he's ah, like, it's
not about it. I told him, I said, no, your girlfriend
can't come over. You have totake Ruby two hockey practice today, right.
And he was upset about that forabout five minutes. Then he got
a stick and then he realized,oh, well she's playing she said hockey.
I know all the kids on theteam. I'll just go and practice

(18:48):
with them too, right. Andhe just spent an hour and a half
entertaining himself because he's so in themoment. It's that ADHD components, right,
I thought. I was like,yeah, you were great, right,
Like, is this is your consequence? You've got to drive her around
right because you forgot her, youknow, and finds a way to enjoy
himselfing, Yeah, And it wasreally annoying. Yes, But I meant
the same time, I so thattthe workout well and I made go to

(19:14):
his grandmar house too, yes,right, which is good for her and
good for him. And she neededsomething that you would have had to drop
off or pickup anyway. So it'sa good thing. But I think that's
the thing, like when you're thinkingabout how do you teach kids things,
right. I always talk about there'sreinforcement and punishment. That's the way you
teach, right. Reinforcement things youwant to see again, You anything you
want to see happen again. You'regoing to reinforce. You want to punish.

(19:37):
Punishment I think gets a bad rap. I say this all the time
when I give talks and things.I mean, I always say, maybe
it just needs a different needs somemarketing. You co work on that.
That would be great. Good luckwith those bcpas is, the behavior is
really corner of the market on theseterms, so or just the terms in
general. So like they have thisterm called manding, which I hate.
Why would you put in Do youknow what manning means? Nobody knows what

(20:00):
manding means. It just means askingfor something, just right, asking for
something. Why do we have tohave a new term for it. Instead
of we call punishment, we calledpersuade. Well, persuade sounds very manipulative
and bribery related, which is whata lot of parents have trouble with these
kind of reinforcement systems because they saytheir bribery. But really the whole world

(20:21):
is based on this. Right,you go to work, you get paid,
you go to work, you getpaid your own time off. I
mean, that's just the same systemwe're trying to teach our gets right,
You don't go to work. Imean, listen, you might like what
you do, but if I gaveyou the choice of like going and traveling
the world or going to work,you'd still probably want to travel or whatever
that version of that is to you. But I think punishment gets a bad

(20:41):
rap. But punishment is good becauseit stops behavior. It just doesn't start
anything else. That's the problem withpunishment. So if you're using punishment,
you also have to reinforce something youwant to see happening again. So here
you're trying to punish by making himdo something he doesn't want to do.
Even adding to his load is stilla punishment. But then you know he
likes what he's doing, so it'sreinforcing taking her to practice, But it

(21:04):
doesn't change his behavior when it comesto picking a sister up earlier in the
day. So it's like constantly movingwith him. And I think the other
thing is like, sorry, I'lllet you chime in here too. But
it's hard to find consequences that aren'tour consequences or his sister's consequences or the
other kids consequences, yes, orthere are other parents, you know,

(21:29):
when you don't have that control alot of things to balance that out when
you're trying to provide some consequences totheir actions. Yeah, And like it's
so complicated, and it feels sobad to let the kids feel bad.
I know you hate that, andthey have to feel bad to change.
They have to have their own experience. But I need to come a little
the other side too. So theother day I was really overwhelmed with stuff

(21:49):
happening at work. I had totake Carder to a specialty appointment. Juliana
had to get to softball at thesame time. And again she's been pushing
a little bit. So I'm like, as wonderful as she is, she's
done a great job with lots ofthings, but this is just a thing.
When she gets overwhelmed emotionally, shepushes and won't be able to stop
even when I tell her to stop. So she is on me. She

(22:10):
forgot her bag in my car,even though I'd asked her do you I
made the mistake. I said doyou have your cleats? I didn't say
do you have your bag? Right, and she's fairly independent. This one
is probably our most independent yea,of all of them. And I forget
things too, so I have thisunderstanding. But still my strategy is always
like, well, go to practiceanyway, right, just go to practice,
borrow bat, borrow a glove,right, go, And that's not

(22:33):
an unreasonable request. No, ButI think here, she's you know,
has some feelings about this team.She's been struggling emotionally in a lot of
different ways when it comes to thatteam really not having much to do with
her. I am very so Isay no, But you chimed in and
was like, you could bring herbag to her, And I normally would
not have done it. I wouldhave just let her do it. But

(22:55):
I did bring him in this casebecause mostly because you guilted management. But
on that sense, like I thinkthat that was probably the right thing to
do in that scenario, Like yougot to pick your battles and your timing,
right, yeah, yeah, Andindependence is not the one that that
girl that one has to work on. No, And I think you're right
because I think making her, youknow, go through a portion of that

(23:17):
practice without her stuff was enough ofa lesson for her and go to practice
because she was saying she wasn't right, and she went to practice anyway,
which is something she just to want. And she willingly got in the car
like there was nobody here to forceher to do it. Yeah, she
had to do it. She didherself. I sent her in a carpool
so she couldn't complain of the person, right and you know so, so
I think that was a good exampleof there being a consequence you or I

(23:44):
both Neither one of us dropped whatwe were doing to go solve her problem
for her. We made her kindof sweat it out for a little bit,
but still provided her with the thingsshe needed to have a useful practice.
Well, it's that ying and yangof having co parents, right,
Like, it's hard a lot oftimes with the fact that you know,
we have other there's other parents involved, and you're running this, like we've

(24:07):
talked about it before, coach andassistant coach kind of role. But I
find the more married we are,the more we combine and connect, and
the more we support each other,and the more we're around the kids in
places where we need to parent.I think we have we've like kind of
developed certain rules, like whoever's kidit is takes the front the lead,
yeah, right, and then theother one runs a support role, and

(24:33):
whether we agree or not with theway exactly it's being handled, we love
and respect each other and we seeeach other's strengths very much. So even
if you're yelling, you know what, I approach that that way all the
time. No, but do Isee the value in you expressing yourself and
then being able to say no,you're you know, he may not be
doing it completely perfectly, but whathe's saying is absolutely true and you need
to listen to it. Yeah.And I think that that's where you know,

(24:56):
that's we talk about that, right, We have those conversations all the
time about those types of scenarios,and I think that that's you know,
I think it's helpful for us.I think it shows the kids that,
you know, while they may bethey're clearly handled different You're like my kids
are handled when we you know,as you're talking about me being the lead

(25:18):
parent in that dynamic, like they'rehandled differently than maybe if they were in
that situation they would be handled byyou. Yeah, but more because they're
different kids, not because it's anunfairness. And I think they're recognizing it.
I think that they see it asan unfairness. I think they see
it as these are the dynamics,right, like, this is this is
the parent I've grown up with,and he or she is handling me the

(25:42):
way they always have, right likeit's but and they get support. Right.
But in the background, there's thisperson now who is clearly on both
of our sides. I think that'sthe key both and saying like empathizing with
their situation they may have put themselvesin it, or not explaining to them,

(26:02):
you know, calmly outside without emotion, like, hey, this is
why he's upset, you know,in this case, this is why he's
frustrated. This is why he's youknow, annoyed. Yeah, I understand,
you know, I just wish hemay have done this differently. Well.
I think if you talk to himabout it, right, you know,
he would understand that. Do youunderstand why he's upset? Yes?

(26:22):
I can work on making sure Iremember this better. How would you do
that? Right? You know,like this team dynamic we've tried to create,
right, Yeah, you know that'san example. You know example on
your side is you know something's happened, you know, and I found myself
having to pick and choose those moments. They don't not that either want occur

(26:45):
frequently, but you know there's timeswhere all just kind of whisper to the
kids or like to say, like, probably she's upset because she asked you
to do that, right, youknow, whether I express it appropriately or
not too. Sometimes I do,sometimes I don't, right and sometimes and
sometimes I where I would this isa little bit different, but where I
would be talking to my kids aboutsomething. We've started getting to the point

(27:07):
where if and I find myself beingprotective of you and this this is where
like if they don't do something thatyou asked them to do, or something
that they do something that inconveniences youor you know, I'll say, well,
you should have done that for yourmom, right, you know,
like why did you Well, Ithink you're getting used to my style.
Whereas if they don't do that,then there's a consequence. I don't get
screamy yelly about it. I justmight say, you know, you're not

(27:32):
going to your friend's house until thisis done. Right. It doesn't matter
if you do it now, itdoesn't matter if you do it in ten
minutes, but if you haven't doneit. If I asked you yesterday and
you did not do it till today, and now you want to go out
with your friends, cool, goahead out, but not till what I
said was done was done. WhereasI think you would express more emotion about
that in the moment, right,you might yell or scream about it.
I don't have that energy, tobe honest, It's just a style thing.

(27:52):
I just don't literally have the energyfor you. I mean, I
think i've and they can get upsetand they cannot go, and I'm okay
if they're upset about that, WhereasI think that you see this as if
they don't go to their friend's house, they're going to be so upset and
sad and they don't get this opportunityto go do whatever they wanted to.
And sometimes, by the way,I feel similarly, it depends on what
the issue is. I try tofind things that are like, ah,
you don't get to go play withyour friend for one day, versus it

(28:15):
being like you don't get to goto this big dinner or something. I
try not to do that, butit is they're uncomfortable, and it is
interesting kind of finding that dynamic.I think you've gotten used to that,
and I think you've absorbed some ofme, and I've absorbed some of you
when it comes to style and tryingto figure those things out. But it's
hard. I mean, going froman elementary kid where you're running the show

(28:37):
more often right that you don't expectcertain things of them, to middle in
high school where my biggest fear isthat if something happens to us, that
our kids won't be able to befunctioning members of society, that they won't
have these skills. Like I carevery much about them being able to make
good decisions, right, I knowI'm not going to be there every step

(28:57):
of the way. I know they'reloring more things. I even have situations.
We have situations where we may notlike a group of friends, or
we may not like a decision togo somewhere, or we might be worried
that they could be exposed to something. And it goes back to what we've
talked about on other podcasts about youknow, I want to use them as
teachable moments. I want to guidethem and making decisions for themselves versus making

(29:21):
the decision for them. That's amajor parenting shift. And it sucks and
it's uncomfortable and it's hard. Andthen you add the dynamics of it us
being a blended family, and itbecomes even harder. And I just feel
like we have to lean into therapyfor sure, discussions like open discussions you
mentioned talking about that. You know, we used to and I think early

(29:41):
on we both kind of stayed inour own lane, and now that we're
blending, we're going straight at morefor the benefit of the kids. You
know, for me, it's about, Okay, this isn't working well,
and I'm worried about maybe the dynamicbetween you and your daughter or me and
my daughter, or we have tofigure out something that's going to boost all
of us up and go kind ofhead on at things. So if you

(30:03):
do yell and scream, and youknow, I actually coming back from the
nil salon, you were annoyed havingto come out and help us, Yeah,
And I was annoyed because I didn'tthink you needed to, and I
was trying to not to get you. I knew you needed to do work
out and do your own things,and I wanted you to be able to
do that, and I was purposelynot including you in this for this reason.

(30:26):
So you and I are emotional alittle bit, and Ruby is hearing
us kind of have this discussion becauseyou are slightly testy with me, and
I am slightly testy with you probably, And you know, we pull in
the driveway because now you're meeting usat home because we didn't actually need the
money, right, because I figuredout a solution because I'm a very good
problem sol and you know, sheshe's worried about getting yelled at, right,

(30:49):
and I'm saying to her, there'syour dad's fine. He may have
he might be annoyed and I mightbe annoyed, but like she didn't do
anything wrong. But historically before,before we were before we worked on a
lot of this, right, thatmight have been the dynamic. And I
said to her, you know,no, he's thinking about some things at
work that are stressing him out.So and he and she said, oh,

(31:10):
he's told me about that. Isaid, yeah, so now me
on this opportunity of like, hey, you know, something else is bugging
him. So something does happen,it's not really related to you. And
I told her to wait a minute, and I went and talked to you
about it, didn't I and onceyou were able to let me in the
car because you wouldn't for a minuteor two. We had a discussion about
it, yes, and was fine, and she got in the car and

(31:32):
it was fine. But she gotto see that dynamic like you and I.
I told her. I was like, uh no, he knows that
this isn't you know. There's mostof the time it is a very mutual
thing. I'm usually little of meand a little of you. Yeah,
in this scenario, you were sayingto me, you didn't check with me.
You went through a ronin And Isaid, well, who did you
go through? And you said,Ronan. They were pretty quickly. So

(31:57):
the essential message of this yeah,cause of all, Oh, it's really
hard to teach kids' skills and givethem their own consequences and let them feel
bad. That feels bad to youand it feels bad to me, But
it's essential in create like for Ronanin particular. You know, we've talked
about this and we'll probably do awhole other podcast about it. But there's

(32:22):
certain things that he needs to beable to do for himself, for his
life. It is not about punishinghim to hurt him. It is about
using reinforcement and punishment to try tohelp him gain his own consequences, to
teach him these skills, so we'renot we're not always saving him that he
is saving himself, right, andhe starts to feel comfortable and confident in
being able to save himself. Yes, And that's tough because as you make

(32:44):
that shift to the middle high schoolwhere they need to do these things themselves,
you're really guiding decisions and letting themmake them and letting them fail,
and that feels crappy, and thenletting him do it again. Then you
add our dynamic of trying to figureourselves out as new parents. I think
correct, correct, Yeah, maybe, And I think I probably need to
support, like to give a littlemore support sometimes because in a relationship,

(33:07):
one of the things I love mostabout you is that you go over like
you will. You'll do little thingsfor me that make me happy, not
because I need it, but becauseyou're thinking about me. Right. So
I can add that component into myparenting where it's not just always teaching a
lesson, but maybe sometimes it's justbeing nice, right, you know.
And I think that's the benefit ofhaving a good co parent and trying to

(33:28):
figure all this stuff out. Aswe go along. I think so,
so cheers to try to figure thingsout. Good luck, Well, thanks
for joining us for this episode ofWhat's Happening Here. Don't forget to subscribe
to our YouTube page or you canfollow me on Instagram at doctor Sarah l
Alan and keV shows up a lotthere too. Be sure to tell a
friend what you liked about this episodeand share it with them. After all,

(33:49):
we're all in this together, justtrying to figure out what's happening here.