Book seller Book store

Dan Fridd and his wife talk to us about the book business. No, its not about publishing. Today we're dabbling in the business of selling books. Also what it takes to book store

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hello, every woman, welcome tothe rights class. I think right hand,
I know I'm Jane, I'm thedisembodied voice. I'm a hag.
Oh I thought you were going tosay a hag. I was like wow,
wow, wow, b hag gostraight by hand. Cannot see her
audience. That's why you don't.No, that's why I look like a

(00:25):
hag. That was like that wasa I was like a cut like that.
She she just didn't finish all hermates. I know, it's like
this be like two hours later thanlike I have like a corner of her
face on one eye looks so she'sjust like this one. When I look,
I look, I look like Ihave no bags or anything, just

(00:47):
one that's fitting for Halloween. Wellthat's true. I got this colder face.
That's what they call Nona. Youwill know, I will know.
Oh my goodness. We always rememberto almost forgot to introduce myself. All
right. So anyway, we wrotebooks. Yeah, can you imagine there's

(01:10):
eighteen of them. Now, sawpretty pretty serious in these books, I
think, but here like the topfive. And I thought the Boos was
bad with other life lessons, andI thought being going to was easy if
only I would meet a Memoir andVerse and Widdow's Webddle's Debt, And then
went on coffee and I said,the top five, Well, the Widdow's

(01:33):
Web Debt series, it's like onebook continuously, like all right, all
right, Well anyway you find outeverything, your ladies are doing that,
and I go ladies dot com andyou can get those books wherever you get
audio books, because those are ouraudio books. That's why, like the
top six, Yeah, that's exactlywhy, because I mean, who wants
to read? Right there? Yougo, Yeah, you can get the

(01:57):
rest of the twelve. Yeah,So y'all want to hear to hear about
us? You had to hear aboutI wonderful guest, wonderful guests. Would
you like to introduce yourself? Hello, my name is Stanfred and I work
for Advice and when I'm not workingfor a device, I'm the Saturday boy
for my wife's bookshop. And I'mLely Andfred and I am the manager of

(02:17):
book Bags and Dragontails and Dan's Saturdayboss. Well that sounds super interesting.
And then I was like, man, I guess he doesn't want to pop
holding her bookshop. So my firstquestion is I have a question, an
question, No, there's no handfor that. I have a question,

(02:42):
Go for it. So, aswe were just coming out of COVID,
how did you keep your bookshop alive? Right, that's a very good question
with great difficulty. So we openedseven months before the pandemic close, so
we were very new, which ina lot of ways was a great thing

(03:05):
because it meant we didn't really knowwhat we were doing any way, so
we were a bit more adaptable.But we did lots of things to try
it as we came out of COVID. We made our bookshop floor into giant
snakes and ladders board so that everyonewould know what two meters was so they
could keep away from each other.We had superhero masks and gloves so that

(03:28):
everyone could still keep touching the books. And we also made it so that
the bookshop was bookable for your bubble, so people could come in with their
family groups for a set amount oftime and not have to worry about interacting
with other people. We three Dmodeled the shop, so when we were
not allowed to open, you couldgo on our website and walk around the

(03:50):
shop on a three D model.And I think we're still the only bookshop
that's done that, So that wasreally cool. That's me. Yeah,
we're going back back is under thevirtual tour. It's www dot book bugs
and dragontales dot com. Our PRprofession said you have to make sure to

(04:12):
say your website three times, sowe will be asking again. Absolutely noted.
We also we also made a video. We made a we made a
musical that celebrated all the things thatwe've done to keep the shop open,
and that's on our YouTube channel.Although we may have fallen foul of some

(04:33):
some copyright laws because it is tothe tune of good Morning Baltimore, but
it is good Morning Timbale, whichis the name of the street we're on
for. How did they even findout that? I'm so happy I didn't
even have to pay for it internet? Absolutely. Oh no, your question,

(04:58):
because that was the only good questionI heard. No, Well,
that's all I have. So mynext question was, Dan, can you
explain what you do? And especiallyfor the po where I was here about
are authors and they just want toknow more about the publishing business. Okay,
so that's quite easy for an Americanaudience actually, because most people in
book selling in the USA will haveheard of Aidelweiss or above the tree Line,

(05:24):
which is the company I work for. What aid Device does is provide
tools for booksellers and publishers to connectwith each other, so to browse catalogs
and look at statistics on books,and download digital copies and make newsletters and
loads of different stuff like that.Everything we do for booksellers is subsidized,

(05:47):
subsidized by what the publishers pay us. So yeah, I'm in a unique
position being sort of between the twothings, and it really helps our bookshop
as well. Having that position,I also provide a little bit of tech
support for booksellers as well, soI'm like a little I'm gonna be like,
how did that help your bookshop?I mean, that is amazing.

(06:11):
Are you sure you're not a reporter? Because only reporter is still our questions.
If it's any consolation, I amthe worst person for Dan to teach.
He is brilliant and patient and canshow everyone exactly how to use it.
But being married means that I don'tlisten to him, so I can't
be taught. But I'm taught byother people who are taught by Dan.

(06:34):
I thought the reason to bring outthe back have you back a drink.
We don't learn anything in America.I might try that, did you want
to? You are here? Youare now marketing, So yeah, actually

(07:00):
that is going to lean towards thequestion since you know, you guys stole
that one right out of my headand answered the next one. So marketing
for a bookstore has got to behard. And then also you deal a
lot with the analytics. So howdid you do also with like making it
fun to like look at on thewebsite, because the website isn't horrible to
look at like the marketing side.Yeah, so I guess because I'm from

(07:25):
a tech background, I could dothe website fairly, fairly easily. And
then that was at a time wherewe were trying to figure out in the
book industry how we could update websitesautomatically, you know, from our stock
so we sell a book, itcomes off the website, that sort of
stuff. So there's a lot oftechnology behind it, and there's a lot

(07:47):
of things that our Booksellers Association havedeveloped a bit like the ABA have developed
in the USA to help bookshops.So you can kind of plug in lots
of stuff to make it work.But we do what we really struggle with
is keeping it like keeping the blogupdated. For instance, the blog we
haven't posted for a year. ProbablyNo, we have high hopes. I

(08:09):
think in the beginning we had allthese big plans. We were going to
blog all the time, we weregoing to keep everything up to state,
and then we opened a bookshop,and that really stops you from like taking
on a lot of the things thatyou think you're going to have time for.
So but we do do like regularnewsletters, and we had an idea

(08:31):
that we would put those up inplace of a blog, but we get
with social media is now our blogspace, so we do link that through
the website as well so you cankeep up with our shenanigans. I'm not
always suggest the same thing over andover again, and I apologize because I'm
Al Schorlin. It's the podcast becauseit only takes like what five minutes did

(08:54):
today. We've talked about it.We've got a format for a potential.
I'm an avid podcast listener. Ilisten all the time. I've always got
pods in and I'm always listening,and I love I just think it's a
brilliant medium. And we have talkedmany times about doing a podcast, We've
sort of got a broad outline ofhow we do it. Leanne's got a

(09:18):
million rude stories, so we're thinkingof something called le Anecdotes, where yeah,
Leanne tells stories of her past.But the Troublers were a children's bookshop,
so half of them wouldn't be publishablemore than half. How do we
put in how are we going towork in these? Shenean agains because I

(09:39):
feel like you should talk about shaneeragains in your bookstore, like there are
always shenanigans in the bookshop with everyday shenanigans filled. Because we just sort
of go with go with it.So people are coming and say would you
like so tomorrow, for example,we've got a children's and entertainer coming in

(10:00):
in to make crocodile balloons to supportyeah, and we're like, okay,
let's go. We just go withit. To support a big charity,
like a televised charity thing that's nationwidechildren. But we yeah, we're always
up to something. We just sayyes to everything. This is this is
what, this is what I reachedout to you. It's like, let's

(10:22):
do this. It's amazing, itwas amazing. Somebody is actually like I
want to come on build. Ifeel like it should literally be like their
slogan like where where it's actually wherebooks live at the moment, but we

(10:46):
can change it to where Shenanigans are. I feel like where books live.
Yes, like, okay, weare we getting into today? You're not
going to trademark that, No,I'm not. You can definitely have it
because when I come to London,I'm gonna be all, what are we

(11:07):
getting into? The next you know, we're only two hours from London.
You have to come and see us. We're you know something none of my
business bookshop is that's a good thing. And then is it train accessible?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're about five minutes from the train
and the train is about an hourand forty from London. Oh, I

(11:28):
love the train. We're in Norfolk, so with the lump on the on
the butt of England, that's wherewe are yourself. You're just above London,
somewhere the east with a bump onthe side of England. We've done
East we go I've never done so, and then all the way up to

(11:48):
Edinburgh because we go on book tourevery every year through the UK. I'm
always and now I want to know, four bookshops in Knowedge, so that's
just in our c Yeah, butyou wouldn't. You wouldn't come to Norwich
unless you wanted to. It's notlike someone We're coming because we want to.

(12:11):
And also there were back of drinksinvolved, and you know I'm always
renaming it chop okay, but letme try to let me try to ask
a question that like our audience isdefinitely gonna want to know. Maybe you
can tell us. First part ishow would an indie author get into your
bookstore and into any bookshop? Andyeah, you have any advice about that?

(12:35):
And then the second question, ofcourse is how would an indie author
come to the attention of booksellers.Oh, I've got a lot I could
say about that. So we wehave we we probably have an independent you're
talking about self published, are you? Or are you talking about Yeah?

(12:58):
So so we have probably three orfour a week coming to the shop.
And it's all about how you approachand when you approach and the quality of
the book you've got to. Imean, one of the problems is that
you know that a self published author, it hasn't necessarily gone through all of
the checks that are published. Youknow, a big publisher would have put

(13:22):
on a book, so you've gotto read it first of all, and
that takes time. But that's easierwith children's books. So the author tomorrow
is self published, isn't it.I think sometimes my top tip would be
sending an introductory email first of all, because we often have like three or

(13:45):
four people coming in first thing ona Saturday when we're gearing up to try
and get the day started, andbecause of the amount of time that it
takes to kind of have those conversations, we don't always have that, whereas
a kind of a reach out initiallywith information about the book, maybe a
bit of advanced information, maybe aphoto of it, and an understanding that
there will be like terms. Weoften have self published authors come to us

(14:11):
and they're surprised that, you know, we'll do a split on It'll be
seventy percent to them, thirty percentto us, and they're often quite surprised
that what we would be taking thirtypercent, but that which happens. But
that is so it's an awareness ofthe book industry as a whole and understanding

(14:33):
that bookshops, certainly in the UK, we don't have the ability or the
time to promote their books, andbecause they won't necessarily be on the all
of the information might necessarily be onthe publishers or things like that. Because
it's published in a slightly different way, we won't always be able to get
them uploaded onto our website. Soit does put a bit of extra pressure

(14:56):
on the author themselves to really pushand say they do the advertising and say
it is available here. Because thebookshops we don't have the backing from like
HarperCollins or you know, Penguin,who will do all of that, sending
bookmarks and things like that. Soit does require the self published author to

(15:18):
do a lot of their own marketingand just using the bookshops as a shop
frunt almost a shop front. ButI've heard horror stories of authors saying things
to bookshops like, you know,my books should be in your window,
my book should be face out,or can I just put my book in

(15:39):
your shop so people can go onAmazon to find it, you know,
things they're just just a complete disregardfor the fact that the shop is actually
trying to make some money and tryingto stay you know, stay open every
day, and it's a struggle forus every day, and so that,
yeah, there's that awareness and Saturdaysavoid Saturday in as that that's that's crazy.

(16:00):
If you've got to cure of peopleat your counter and you you know,
you're demanding time from a bookseller,that's just rude to talk to them
about their book and maybe give themsome feedback. But always my top tip
is quality. You know, lookat other books in the bookshop, at
any bookshop, and see does yourbook hold its own in that environment.

(16:26):
If your book looks a little bitshiny, or it's got an unusual font
that makes it kind of just seema little bit off, then those are
the sorts of things that booksellers willlook for. So it's kind of about
knowing your your target market and kindof trying to fit in with the quality
of that I think we've got.We've had some incredible self post books,

(16:48):
amazing, absolutely amazing, But theones that really work are the ones that
you know have had that they sendtheir friends in, they send their family,
and they send they get the wordout there. Right, you can
buy it a book bugs and dragontailsand and they sell, and that's that's
great. That's great for everybody.But but having a book sat on your
shelf for six months not selling,and then the author coming in almost complaining

(17:15):
to you that their book hasn't soldis just a little bit blind to to
how a bookshop works. So becausefor example, we've got six and a
half thousand books on our shelf,so we can't put one above the others
in any you know, in anyrespect? Is that right? I know,
I'm just thinking we've gone on alittle bit, won't gathering from what

(17:41):
you're saying is researcher'll like yeah,or help publish in the others. Right.
We know we have to do ourown marketing. We have to do
all this stuff. Part of thatmarketing air, part of writing is what
researcher. So research what you're doingand avoid saturdays apparently, like maybe go
on a Monday. I'm just saying, yeah, that day's great. I

(18:04):
mean, this isn't always possible.But be a customer of that bookshop as
well. You know it coming inas a stranger is very different to coming
in as a friend. We've actuallygot self published authors publishing deals because there
were our customers, there were ourfriends, and we believed in the book

(18:32):
that little bread. I was goingto be like, when also buy a
book, it's a Monday. Theyneed to say minimum. I love bookmarks.
That's like my downfall about it.You don't know you as about Bookmark.
We took Jay to Frankfurt and uh, let me just explain every time,

(18:53):
every place, every book they gavea bookmark. She was like,
oh Bookmark. I'm like, you'vegot to be tired of them by now.
Okay, I don't know what happenedto kind of like just disappeared.
Yeah, I can still them.So this works the second The second half
of that question is how does anindie approach a bookseller? So I didn't

(19:18):
realize our video had gone off.How does it but develop a relationship,
like Dan says, try and developa relationship with if it's possible, with
the book with your local bookshop.Because we are five rooms, for example,
and we often have people come injust to the front room, which
is a tiny part, and sayI want you to stop my book,

(19:41):
but they don't look at what ourstock is. So if you but if
they sort of cart if if someone'shoping to be put into a bookstore,
if they come and have a look, make sure that it's actually the right
fit for the author as well,because it's not just about what the bookshop
wants. The author has to makesure that aligned with the principles, or

(20:02):
the police, or or even justthe general stock. So I think.
But developing a relationship and having andrecognizing you know that that there's there has
to be that two way street,I think is really important. So Okay,
I'm so high. First of all, I love the answer, and
I'm so I'm still high off ofthe whole, like I went a frank

(20:22):
every thing and learn publishing. Yes, it's so big. So what things
do you think an author needs toknow in order to be successful or potential
author to be successful in the publishingworld, Because I mean, I'm a
self published author, so I'm notgonna lie. I'm always like, oh,

(20:45):
there's something not to learn. Sowhat should we know, especially if
we're going to go like to like, Well, I can highly recommend,
I can highly recommend working in abookshop, you know, because you'll learn
a lot from from just working ina bookshop for like like a week or
something. You know, we wehave people working in our bookshop all the
time. Not just want to learnabout the industry. So I highly recommend

(21:08):
that. I mean normally with USit's booksellers, but but it's worth it's
worth putting that time in learn.If you're approaching a publisher, then I
mean, these are just things I'veheard, but but research the publisher.
There's no point sending your book offto to uh, you know, Penguin

(21:30):
Kids and it's a novel about carefulsomething horrific. Yeah, I don't know
politics in Venezuela or something that's nothorrific, but you know, you get
what I mean, Like, learnabout who you're sending it to, and

(21:52):
and get your covering letter right aswell, and explain in the covering letter
why you're approaching that publisher and whyyou think it would fit with them overall.
List and I think as well,an important thing is develop a thick
skin where if someone says no,it isn't because you're horrible and they hate
you. It is because for whateverreason in that moment, it isn't the

(22:15):
right fit for the either the shopor the people. And it's okay,
because if your book is good andyou believe in it and you're able to
keep pushing that it will find itsmarket. It will find its place.
Top tip for if you go intoan indie bookshop, don't say here,

(22:37):
it's available on Amazon. Yes,even even if it is, because ultimately
we as much as we love anyonereading any books, and however they get
it is wonderful. Amazon is ais obviously a huge problem for the indie

(23:00):
bookseller, and so it's almost likecoming in and swearing at us because we
know that places like that exist andwe're not trying to compete, but we
are offering something very, very different. And so it's about again, it's
like Dan said, it's about awareness. Just be aware. We know Amazon
exists, we know that your bookis probably sold on Amazon, but don't

(23:22):
say, can you here's a bookmarkwith a link to Amazon. Can you
give out? Because it will makeme want to be very sad. Oh,
can I just say part of ourbook, a part of our book
catalog if not sold on Amazon.But understandably, like anywhere you can get
yourself out there is brilliant. Butwhen you're trying to develop a sort of

(23:45):
an intimate relationship with a bookstore who'sgoing to hand sell your book, just
it's like rubbing soult in the wounda little Jade, you have that last
question for us, So where canpeople find out more about you and what's
happening in net? Well, we'reeverywhere, so our website book Bugs and

(24:08):
dragon Tails that spelt tales as instories, not tales as in tales dot
com. We're on TikTok, althoughwe've let that slip a little bit lately.
Instagram lean posts on Instagram all thetime, all the stuff that we
get up to, and Facebook getsa little bit more personal and little heartfelt

(24:33):
long messages. Yeah, and we'vebeen on the news a lot as well.
I don't know we never mentioned this, but Russell Crow donated us a
load of money last year and wewere all over American TV, We're all
over Australian TV. We're all over. So there's videos of us talking nonsense
about our shop all over the placeas well. So I'm sure if you

(24:56):
google book Bugs and dragon Tails you'llfind some terrible videos of us and game
shows and things, because I'm sureyou've noticed we are both show offs,
so we just turned up. Firstof all, I want to say that
y'all you want to go see thosevideos because they're absolutely adorably funny. Because

(25:18):
I watched a few before I goton here. Some homework, absolutely homework,
and then you're doing my quarter face. Yeah she was, she got
the I right, but you knowI had to wrap it up for us
and one of the anti thought ladies. And you can find out everything that

(25:41):
your ladies are up to. Oh, I am so sorry before I wrap
this up. We missed the thirdtime to hear your website, so one
was time to tell us where yourwebsite is. It's www dot book bugs
and dragontails dot com. Okay,I go, well, we got our

(26:02):
p R cousin said make sure theyput it into time. So there we
go. Put it many times.Oh, I'm Jane and this is Wilmona
and we all we can wrap youknow, we can wrap up. You
go find out everything your ladies aredoing on w w W dot and I
thought ladies dot com. While you'rethere, take a moment for the middle
of the page. You see thecharges that we probably support if we can
support them. Also, we thankyou in advance. But that just remember

(26:22):
y'all, wisdom is all around youif you're up into finding it and accepting
it. To peace of love youguys, and for once not the missing
and not the missing change because I'mhere just my head. God,