August 1, 2023 • 9 mins
Military analyst Mike Lyons joins Armstrong & Getty to discuss what is going on in Ukraine.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The terrifying moments of Russian missile strikes captured in video
circulating online. The target President Zelenski's hometown. But this wasn't
a military science. It was innocent families at home when
a missile tore a hole through their apartment block. At
least six people were killed in the attack, including a
ten year old girl, and at least seventy five injured.
(00:21):
The Russian Defense minister making it clear it's increasing attacks
in response to a dramatic drone strike in Moscow Sunday
hitting a building housing government offices.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So the Ukrainians hit some government offices in Moscow, putin
hits back at Zelensky's hometown with just residential apartment buildings,
killing people, and says stated out loud, Yeah, this is
retaliation for doing that. Let's get an update on Ukraine,
that situation and everything else going on with the military
(00:54):
analyst Mike Leins, who served the United States military in
a variety of capacities through the years and it now
respected military analyst for CNN, among other places. Hello, Mike,
how are.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You Kiwani guy? It's great to be back with you
that back.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And forth aside saw you on CNN the of the
day talking about the counter offensive and how it's showing
some signs of life and maybe they've found a weak
spot in the Russian line. What's that story all about?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think there's a little
kink in the armor here of the Russians of this
long Maginer line they've created on this front here eight
hundred kilometers and for Ukraine to break through, they have
to concentrate their forces, and it appears so far that
they've they've gotten through like the first level of what
are two more defensive lines that they have to get through,
(01:39):
these mine fere minefields as well as trenches. And by
taking these two towns, Robiinsk is one of them, I
know that office appreciate. Within that oblast, they now can
create a shock effect and try to break through and
you know, get to the sea os off and you know,
separate this the southern theater for example, separate Russian troops
(02:02):
that it would be to their west, get them to surrender,
and now they threaten Crimea. So they appear to be
breaking through here. We still don't know whether or not
that they've made any more progress from what I've read.
Now they've seem to be somewhat stalled, but if they
can hold off another thirty days when abrams tanks arrive
and other combat equipment arise, they might have a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Mike is non experts, we've been somewhat surprised at how
effective the mining of landscape has been in holding the
Ukrainian counteroffensive back. What's the state of the art in
mind clearing equipment technology.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's difficult. There's a couple of things. There's something called
a myclick that allows you to fire like a pressurized
charge over an area. So let's think about it as
a missile that blows up that The mines then are
blown up because they've become pressurized and they stimulate a
vehicle running over them. But with the Russians have done,
(03:00):
they stacked mines two and three deep in some areas here,
so that Michlik that that mind clearing technology is not
going to work. So the second part to that is
things that fit in front mind clearing tanks that go
in front of the infantry and their way out front
that looked to kind of scoop them up and push
them forward so they don't clear the tracks, they don't
(03:22):
make any kind of damage that way, that way is
a much slower they get the same kind of progress there.
The Ukraine military needs more of that kind of equipment.
They'll use the mich looks, they'll use those mind clearing
charges in some level, but what's going to really help
them is both the mind clearing equipment in front of
tanks as well as bridging equipment, because the second thing
you could do is put a bridge over it and
(03:43):
use that as a way to get through a minefield.
As well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
On that other thing you were talking about cutting the
Russian forces in two I was watching me on TV
and you had the arrows and the map and everything
like that, and I was trying to picture, like how
many Russian forces would they be able to put in
a position of having the surrender. How many thousands are
we talking about or is it a thousand?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, probably thirty to twenty to thirty thousands along that. Yeah, No,
it would be huge, And it's something I'm sure that
you know the the Ukraine's not talking about because that's
how many troops are in that area defending because Crimea
is so important to them, and so they when the
dam was blown a few weeks ago, that that kind
(04:26):
of moved that line up further let's say east, right
up up the Nepro River in a certain way, because
the quickest way would have been to just afford the
river there and go right for Crimea there. But now
they've kind of moved it up and so they're now
they've trapped potentially more Russians on the other side of
that of that the salient there. So again, then if
they can break through and create this boundary, the race
(04:49):
is on too, the Sea of as Office. That is
what I was saying yesterday, because if they can do
that and create that kind of spot, they turned their
weapons now to the west, and they've got thirty thousand
Russian troops that they can easily take out or make
them surrender.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Mike, what do you hear about when various weapons and
weapons systems might be brought to bear, from tanks to
F sixteens.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So that's the issue. Because the tanks won't get there
until September, they're still going to have to be some
training on them. They'll make an impact when they get
to the battlefield. But they also the Ukraine still have
got to fight combined arms. They're still fighting very serily.
You saw the video the other day of a BMP
or an infantry fighting vehicle going into a trench and
then exposing its entire bottom half and then coming back out.
(05:32):
They've got to fight combined arms, they got to bring
an engineer with them at the same time, they've got
to be shooting artillery. That's what's confusing me right now
is I don't see the Russian artillery firing up that
first defensive mindfields and minefield is only good if it's
covered up. So again, it's going to be a couple
of months before the tanks get there. I don't see
the F sixteen is getting there for nine or ten months.
I mean that's going to be almost a year. And
(05:53):
the F sixteens that are going are you twenty years old,
don't have the same technology. The war could be over
by then if if you know the Ukrainian's kind of
play this right, I.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Know you've been studying this kind of stuff your whole life,
so you'd be a good guy to ask. Just reading
military history myself, whether it's battles in the Civil War,
World War two, or whatever, and then watching and modern times,
how often do plans ever work out? It seems like
it's just constant like throwing the plan out the window,
impro improvis improvising after you know, it's the you know,
(06:27):
the other side gets to say sort of deal or
you have a plan, but they get to react to
certain way. Is it Is it as much improvation improvise
improvising as it looks.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Like it is. And it's about tactical improvation improvisation of
you know, whether something happens something tactically like you get
you know, get a chemical attack or something. We call
it getting slimed, let's say. But you mean think about
it in the Grant scheme. You know, the D Day
invasion was a plan that went off very well. That
if that has failed, you know, the world's a different
place today. But in the same token, operation market Garden
(06:57):
doesn't work. Uh, you know, we didn't get the three
bridges there. That counter offensive did not work and that
set us back a few months. And then on the
other side of the coin determined the Battle of the Balls,
their counter offensive into Belgium and World War two doesn't work.
But the US and Allied counter offensive back ends up working.
So I think you got to look at strategy versus tactics. Right, Strategically,
(07:19):
what Ukraine has to do is cut Russian forces in half?
And so where do they cut them in half? The
tactical decision and if they can pick the right spot
and get through it, they might be able to be
more successful.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Jack, Before I make a transition, do you have another
Ukraine matter? Okay, we're talking to military analyst Mike Lions
and Mike a quick personal note and then onto my question.
I was privileged and moved not long ago to attend
my brother's retirement ceremony from the United States Navy after
twenty nine and a half years in the submarine service.
And it was an amazing ceremony, incredibly moving, dignified, and
(07:54):
in talking to both my brother and a number of
his recently retired and soon to retire comrades, the the brilliance, expertise, discipline,
and patriotism among these men was stunning to behold. And
I'm not sure America understands the incredible asset that we have.
(08:16):
Having said that our recruiting numbers are terrible, what do
we as a country need to do to prevent that
literally existential threat from getting any worse?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, I think we have to get more into high schools.
We have to get you know, the Navy, I know
in particular, is trying to, you know, reach out more
of the army. Recruiting numbers are down. You're seeing unfortunately,
less family members going. My son's in the Navy right now,
so it's not become the family business it once was.
That there was a tremendous amount of veterans and their
(08:47):
their offspring when into the service. A great question. We've
got to keep the bar high, though, I don't want
to lower the bar just just to make a number.
There's lots of things we could do there, but there's
tremendous opportunity that the military still does provide. And if
and again it's just a matter of communication, and and
and and and kind of caring to all the stuff
about the military being woke. It's not you go to
(09:08):
you go to that ship, you go to that stub,
you go to a battleship. You'll see it's a it's
a team. What you learn, the life skills you learn
on that at a very early age, we'll carry you
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think it would certainly help too if most of
our media wasn't cynical at best about military service, but
conversation for Another Day. Military anist Mike Lyons. Look for
him on CNN, listen to him here and elsewhere. Mike
is always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Thank you, Becky, Thanks for me
The terrifying moments of Russian missile strikes captured in video
circulating online. The target President Zelenski's hometown. But this wasn't
a military science. It was innocent families at home when
a missile tore a hole through their apartment block. At
least six people were killed in the attack, including a
ten year old girl, and at least seventy five injured.
(00:21):
The Russian Defense minister making it clear it's increasing attacks
in response to a dramatic drone strike in Moscow Sunday
hitting a building housing government offices.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So the Ukrainians hit some government offices in Moscow, putin
hits back at Zelensky's hometown with just residential apartment buildings,
killing people, and says stated out loud, Yeah, this is
retaliation for doing that. Let's get an update on Ukraine,
that situation and everything else going on with the military
(00:54):
analyst Mike Leins, who served the United States military in
a variety of capacities through the years and it now
respected military analyst for CNN, among other places. Hello, Mike,
how are.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You Kiwani guy? It's great to be back with you
that back.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And forth aside saw you on CNN the of the
day talking about the counter offensive and how it's showing
some signs of life and maybe they've found a weak
spot in the Russian line. What's that story all about?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think there's a little
kink in the armor here of the Russians of this
long Maginer line they've created on this front here eight
hundred kilometers and for Ukraine to break through, they have
to concentrate their forces, and it appears so far that
they've they've gotten through like the first level of what
are two more defensive lines that they have to get through,
(01:39):
these mine fere minefields as well as trenches. And by
taking these two towns, Robiinsk is one of them, I
know that office appreciate. Within that oblast, they now can
create a shock effect and try to break through and
you know, get to the sea os off and you know,
separate this the southern theater for example, separate Russian troops
(02:02):
that it would be to their west, get them to surrender,
and now they threaten Crimea. So they appear to be
breaking through here. We still don't know whether or not
that they've made any more progress from what I've read.
Now they've seem to be somewhat stalled, but if they
can hold off another thirty days when abrams tanks arrive
and other combat equipment arise, they might have a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Mike is non experts, we've been somewhat surprised at how
effective the mining of landscape has been in holding the
Ukrainian counteroffensive back. What's the state of the art in
mind clearing equipment technology.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's difficult. There's a couple of things. There's something called
a myclick that allows you to fire like a pressurized
charge over an area. So let's think about it as
a missile that blows up that The mines then are
blown up because they've become pressurized and they stimulate a
vehicle running over them. But with the Russians have done,
(03:00):
they stacked mines two and three deep in some areas here,
so that Michlik that that mind clearing technology is not
going to work. So the second part to that is
things that fit in front mind clearing tanks that go
in front of the infantry and their way out front
that looked to kind of scoop them up and push
them forward so they don't clear the tracks, they don't
(03:22):
make any kind of damage that way, that way is
a much slower they get the same kind of progress there.
The Ukraine military needs more of that kind of equipment.
They'll use the mich looks, they'll use those mind clearing
charges in some level, but what's going to really help
them is both the mind clearing equipment in front of
tanks as well as bridging equipment, because the second thing
you could do is put a bridge over it and
(03:43):
use that as a way to get through a minefield.
As well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
On that other thing you were talking about cutting the
Russian forces in two I was watching me on TV
and you had the arrows and the map and everything
like that, and I was trying to picture, like how
many Russian forces would they be able to put in
a position of having the surrender. How many thousands are
we talking about or is it a thousand?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, probably thirty to twenty to thirty thousands along that. Yeah, No,
it would be huge, And it's something I'm sure that
you know the the Ukraine's not talking about because that's
how many troops are in that area defending because Crimea
is so important to them, and so they when the
dam was blown a few weeks ago, that that kind
(04:26):
of moved that line up further let's say east, right
up up the Nepro River in a certain way, because
the quickest way would have been to just afford the
river there and go right for Crimea there. But now
they've kind of moved it up and so they're now
they've trapped potentially more Russians on the other side of
that of that the salient there. So again, then if
they can break through and create this boundary, the race
(04:49):
is on too, the Sea of as Office. That is
what I was saying yesterday, because if they can do
that and create that kind of spot, they turned their
weapons now to the west, and they've got thirty thousand
Russian troops that they can easily take out or make
them surrender.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Mike, what do you hear about when various weapons and
weapons systems might be brought to bear, from tanks to
F sixteens.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So that's the issue. Because the tanks won't get there
until September, they're still going to have to be some
training on them. They'll make an impact when they get
to the battlefield. But they also the Ukraine still have
got to fight combined arms. They're still fighting very serily.
You saw the video the other day of a BMP
or an infantry fighting vehicle going into a trench and
then exposing its entire bottom half and then coming back out.
(05:32):
They've got to fight combined arms, they got to bring
an engineer with them at the same time, they've got
to be shooting artillery. That's what's confusing me right now
is I don't see the Russian artillery firing up that
first defensive mindfields and minefield is only good if it's
covered up. So again, it's going to be a couple
of months before the tanks get there. I don't see
the F sixteen is getting there for nine or ten months.
I mean that's going to be almost a year. And
(05:53):
the F sixteens that are going are you twenty years old,
don't have the same technology. The war could be over
by then if if you know the Ukrainian's kind of
play this right, I.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Know you've been studying this kind of stuff your whole life,
so you'd be a good guy to ask. Just reading
military history myself, whether it's battles in the Civil War,
World War two, or whatever, and then watching and modern times,
how often do plans ever work out? It seems like
it's just constant like throwing the plan out the window,
impro improvis improvising after you know, it's the you know,
(06:27):
the other side gets to say sort of deal or
you have a plan, but they get to react to
certain way. Is it Is it as much improvation improvise
improvising as it looks.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Like it is. And it's about tactical improvation improvisation of
you know, whether something happens something tactically like you get
you know, get a chemical attack or something. We call
it getting slimed, let's say. But you mean think about
it in the Grant scheme. You know, the D Day
invasion was a plan that went off very well. That
if that has failed, you know, the world's a different
place today. But in the same token, operation market Garden
(06:57):
doesn't work. Uh, you know, we didn't get the three
bridges there. That counter offensive did not work and that
set us back a few months. And then on the
other side of the coin determined the Battle of the Balls,
their counter offensive into Belgium and World War two doesn't work.
But the US and Allied counter offensive back ends up working.
So I think you got to look at strategy versus tactics. Right, Strategically,
(07:19):
what Ukraine has to do is cut Russian forces in half?
And so where do they cut them in half? The
tactical decision and if they can pick the right spot
and get through it, they might be able to be
more successful.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Jack, Before I make a transition, do you have another
Ukraine matter? Okay, we're talking to military analyst Mike Lions
and Mike a quick personal note and then onto my question.
I was privileged and moved not long ago to attend
my brother's retirement ceremony from the United States Navy after
twenty nine and a half years in the submarine service.
And it was an amazing ceremony, incredibly moving, dignified, and
(07:54):
in talking to both my brother and a number of
his recently retired and soon to retire comrades, the the brilliance, expertise, discipline,
and patriotism among these men was stunning to behold. And
I'm not sure America understands the incredible asset that we have.
(08:16):
Having said that our recruiting numbers are terrible, what do
we as a country need to do to prevent that
literally existential threat from getting any worse?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, I think we have to get more into high schools.
We have to get you know, the Navy, I know
in particular, is trying to, you know, reach out more
of the army. Recruiting numbers are down. You're seeing unfortunately,
less family members going. My son's in the Navy right now,
so it's not become the family business it once was.
That there was a tremendous amount of veterans and their
(08:47):
their offspring when into the service. A great question. We've
got to keep the bar high, though, I don't want
to lower the bar just just to make a number.
There's lots of things we could do there, but there's
tremendous opportunity that the military still does provide. And if
and again it's just a matter of communication, and and
and and and kind of caring to all the stuff
about the military being woke. It's not you go to
(09:08):
you go to that ship, you go to that stub,
you go to a battleship. You'll see it's a it's
a team. What you learn, the life skills you learn
on that at a very early age, we'll carry you
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think it would certainly help too if most of
our media wasn't cynical at best about military service, but
conversation for Another Day. Military anist Mike Lyons. Look for
him on CNN, listen to him here and elsewhere. Mike
is always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Thank you, Becky, Thanks for me
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