January 30, 2024 • 22 mins
Amy & Kat are answering your questions!!
Today’s quote: “Sometimes are the things that break your heart end up fixing your vision.”
Bonus quote: “Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness, it took me years to figure out that too was a gift.” – Mary Oliver
Amy & Kat talk:
- Kat’s excitement & sadness leading up to her wedding and whether Amy will find a hinge date in time
- The best way to handle seasons of waiting
- A list of two things that can be true at the same time
- How ultimatums can be boundaries
Plus- they’re answering your questions!
- Current TV shows they’re binging?
- How did Amy & Kat meet?
- Have been trying to have a baby for 2 years, how do I enjoy life while waiting?
- After 9 years shouldn’t a guy want to marry me?
- Besides dating apps, how do people meet these days?
Related episodes:
- Body Image X Pregnancy with Emily Pardy (from You Need Therapy)
- Releasing Shame, Dating with Curiosity, Learning To Adult (from 4 Things)
HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Defatta // @Kat.Defatta // @YouNeedTherapyPodcast // YouNeedTherapyPodcast.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing. I'm Amy and
I'm Kat and today's quote is from a billboard. I
don't know. I saw it on Instagram, don't even know
who posted it, don't even know if it's a real billboard,
could be photoshop. But I like the quote, and it's
sometimes the things that break your heart end up fixing
your vision, deep deep, which I think it's hard for
(00:27):
you to see it in the moment if you're experiencing
any kind of heartache right now, if something is really painful,
I hope you'll hear that quote and know that it
is hope that eventually you'll get it, you'll have grown
from it, you will learn from it. Sometimes that's not
fun to hear in the moment because you're like, nope,
I would give up this pain and not want to
(00:48):
learn whatever is I have to learn. But I think
that that's another thing that also bonds us as humans
and brings us together and creates community, because down the line,
you're going to be able to be there for somebody
else that is going through something painful.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It reminds me of the Mary Oliver quote that says
someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It took me years to figure out that too. As
a gift. We heard that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, So my old supervisor, I guess you would call him,
told me that quote when when my boyfriends broke up
with me and I was like in the therapist lounge bowling,
trying to like clean myself up so I could go
to a session, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Didn't get it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I didn't understand what it meant, which sounds kind of
like cliche, like I didn't understand what it meant until
I felt it, Like I really didn't understand what he
was saying. And then years later, literally I was like, oh,
it was a gift that he broke up with me
and I felt sad and that my life was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
That was a gift.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
He released me from something I actually didn't want but
didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So was your vision fixed?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Totally clear?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Clear?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, Well, Kat does have some vision problems now when
it comes to men, because look at you now, you're
getting married in seventeen days.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So what are you feeling.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I'm excited for the day.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm excited for the actual ceremony and the reception.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm excited to be married.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I also feel a little bit of sadness, the grief
part of it. Of my life is really changing a lot.
The good news, I think for me is that it's
gonna feel more of a gradual change versus all of
a sudden my whole life has changed since we've lived
together for a while.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
He then, yeah, just kidding, my mom might say that, but.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
No, I would have said that.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I have said that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I would have.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I remember, it's so weird. I remember even probably like
two years before I even met Patrick, would have said,
I don't want to live as somebody before I'm married.
And part of that reason, which I think is fair
for people to say, is back then, I one of
it was I think fear based of what I've been
taught and told would make me good. But the other
(03:02):
part was I wanted there to be some excitement after
being married, because.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Like something different would be the different.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
But that's what is interesting is now I'm grateful that
we've already gone through that because the change and the
difference doesn't feel so like stark and scary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And I think if you are someone that is choosing
to wait, like Ben and I waited for everything. We
waited for all things, We waited for all the things,
and I think there was something beautiful in that. And
if that's your choice, that is totally great too. I
think I just had no wiggle room for it. Oh
I would gasp, you know, thought, Oh I believe. And
(03:39):
now I'm like, oh cool, Yeah, you and Patrick are
loving together and then y'all are getting married, and I
am excited to be there and to stand alongside y'all
be one of your bride'smaids. I'm very, very very excited.
I need to go make sure that there's nothing I
need to do to my dress.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Don't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm like, wait, do I need to alter or anything?
I'll go check that. So I put up a Q
and a box which before we get to that, shout
out Hinge because if you didn't know, Kat and BIGP
met on Hinge and I'm on there now too. But
I currently do not have a date to your wedding yet,
(04:18):
but we have time still.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, are you putting on your Hinge profile looking for
a date to a wedding? No? Okay, should I I've
seen it on there. Oh yeah, like I think in
a way, what are you looking for it. Can people
say a date to a wedding or a wedding date
or something like that. It can be serious and also
like hah, that's funny. Yeah, conversation starter.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Love a good conversation starter. Which these questions, some of
them might be that for some people someone just said
current TV show, and for me it's The Bear and
Masters of the Air, which is a show that just
came out about World War Two. The pilots that were flying.
I don't know they're allusing that pilot's the guy that
was Elvis.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Awesome Butler and somebody directed it. That's famous.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, the same guy that did Band of Brothers.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't know. I'll google it while you Doberg, you
know that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Really famous guy you tell your TV show while I well,
I'm currently watching The Bear and I'm in the second season.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm not obsessed with it like everybody else. We also
just finished a show I think it's called Man High Castle.
Have you heard of it?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah? I think i'd watching it a long time ago.
And I give up.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay, yes, because the beginning is very slow, then it
gets really interesting, then it gets really confusing. I told
Patrick it's one of those shows that it feels like
I'm doing work to watch it. But the concept is
really cool, as like if Germany and Japan won the war.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
What the world would be like?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That is what it is about you. It's crazy. Yes, yeah,
I do recall liking that. I don't actually know why
I gave up on it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Probably because it was shart. Yeah, it was really hard
to pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So Masters of the Air, Yes, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks,
and Gary Gotzman. They are the producers of Bandon Brothers
in the Pacific and the show Masters of the Years
about the pilots during World War Two. They were airmen
that risked their lives with the one hundredth Bomb Group,
a brotherhood forged by courage, loss and triumph.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'm kind pretty good band of brothers and what I
don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Oh, that was a really good show from a long
time ago. Shows a series, okay, like I think on
HBO as well.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, maybe I'll watch those two things.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Next question, how did you encap meet each other? Quick
answer to that is I was doing a special series
with my friend Lisa called out Way here on four Things,
talking about I mean the tagline Brailway was a life
without disordered eating outweighs everything, and we were looking for
therapists that specialized in that space. And what are your
friend's moms heard about it and told you about it,
(06:51):
and you sent me an email and I got it,
and I reached out to you and you came up
and recorded, and.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I guess we hit it off. Yeah, history from the.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Rest is history. I've been trying to have a baby
for two years and still not pregnant, So I am
curious how to enjoy life while waiting. And I think
that some of the things that we'll share here under
this could apply to any season of waiting. Maybe you're
not waiting for a baby. You could be waiting for
a partner to show up on hinge. You could be
(07:20):
waiting or not hinge. We have another dating question down
the line of like where to meet people. If it's
not on an app, you'd be waiting for the right
job or insert whatever it is for yourself. But I
think for me in my period of infertility stuff until
we ultimately decided to do adoption, it's a very stressful,
(07:43):
painful time and you live a lot in the past
because you're like, what have I done or what did
I do to my body or what's wrong with me?
And then you also live in the future of like
what are we going to do if we don't have
any kids? So I think if you stay present, that's
the best thing you can do for yourself, because it's
really the only place where you can choose what's going
(08:03):
to happen with your day and how you want to
move forward with it. I get it, it's easier said
than done, but there are things that you can do
that help you stay present.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
There was a therapist that I interviewed on Union Therapy.
Her name is Emily Party, and she founded a counseling
practice that is specifically for moms who are trying to
conceive or maybe they any stage of pregnancy before middle after,
and we were talking about just issues that come up
with all of that, and she said something.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That was so impactful for me.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'm not currently going through that, but in other areas
of waiting, and she said, just because you don't have
what you want right now, it doesn't mean you get nothing.
And I thought that was so wise and helpful, and
it's kind of what you're saying in the same present
is just because you don't have what you're longing for.
(08:57):
It doesn't mean you have nothing in the present moment,
and so is there a way for you to notice.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
That and you can be sad and grateful at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Oh yeah, there's this whole thing. I'm glad you said that.
I wasn't going to go over these but when it's
talking about two things being true at the same time,
I had pulled the screenshot. A listener, Suzanne sent this
to us, and it's all these things that can be
equally true. You are resilient and need a break. You
gave your all and need to back out. You are
(09:27):
independent and still need others. You were sure and things changed.
You are kind and have boundaries. Others have it worse,
and your pain is valid. You did your best and
now you know more. I love that last one. Ali
Fallon and I talked about shame last week on last
Thursday's Four Things, and in looking at any type of
(09:51):
regret or shame, and it's like, had I known been
what I know now, I wouldn't have done that, but
I needed to do it in order to know and learn.
And so you don't look at it as this awful
thing that you did. You can look at it as
information and so yeah, you may have done something. At
the time you were doing your best, you were showing up.
(10:12):
However you knew how to and now you know more.
Something made me go to that when you said two
things can be true. But I think in addition to
being present when you're waiting for something, making sure you're
taking care of yourself is really important. And parts of
self care can help keep you present. Make sure you're
getting enough sleep. If exercise is part of your team
(10:33):
that helps you feel better, I get everybody might not
have that, but are you able to walk or get
outdoors or connect with your friends. Are you able to also,
on the flip side, have time alone because you might
need that. Just make sure that you are cared for,
and a lot of that responsibility is on us to
make sure we're taking care of ourselves. And even gratitude.
If you're trying to stay present and not focus on
(10:56):
everything that's going wrong with your life, gratitude so great
way to do that. Also, talking to others, I think
when it comes to fertility especially, there's some shame associated
with that, and you don't really want to talk about
your medical life with certain people, or you just think
people may not understand or they're going to feel uncomfortable,
but I think that we should give others the opportunity
(11:17):
to show up for us. I think, and you could
have speak more to this cat as a therapist, but
emotions are more manageable when they're said out loud and
you acknowledge them.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
More helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I would say, really is there is a need inside
of every feeling, and so if we don't acknowledge it,
then we can't actually get that need met and it
just gets tangled inside of us.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And people can surprise us.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think the things that you said made sense, and
there might be people that aren't able to offer you
the support that you want. And people can surprise us
in what they're able to sit with if we let them.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I think too staying busy with other things, like if
you have work to focus on, that was really how
full for me? So then my mind wasn't just sitting
there thinking about is my period coming? Is my period coming?
I remember always thinking, Okay, I've got to go get
a test because my period's thirty minutes late. But then
I would go through the process of getting a test,
(12:13):
and then I would be waiting and then it would
be negative and then boom, the next day my period
would come. And if I just had a little more patience,
because I think the taking of the test too is
very like you can take them over and over and
over at least I did. But give yourself other things
to distract you are there projects, you could work on,
different hobbies, and then even if you're accomplishing things, then
(12:35):
you can have that sense of there's something accomplishment of like, look,
I did this, I completed this, I can complete things.
I'm not broken, and that will help boost your self
esteem and your confidence, because I know it can get
really down when you're waiting on something to happen that
you really want to happen, it's not happening, and you
feel broken. So I'm going to leave you this last
statement for this part. But instead of thinking what should
(12:56):
or could have been, focus on what is and what
can be. That's similar to what you were saying, Kat,
but gratitude is another great way to do that, focusing
on the here and now and what do you have
in your life that you are thankful for. Next question
is after nine years, shouldn't a guy want to marry me?
(13:24):
Next question is after nine years shouldn't a guy want
to marry me?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
What is that the question?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Question mark? Okay, yeah, after nine years, shouldn't a guy
want to marry me? Question mark refer back to waiting
for things in the last I would.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Say, there's so much and that depends. Are these people
together for nine years?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes? I would assume after nine years of dating, yeah,
and he would be posing, then something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You have enough information at that point to know if
you want to be with somebody or not.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Right, And I think that ultimately, if you want to
get married and that's not something that he wants to do,
then you have to decide if you really want to
get married and is this something you can live with
if he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Would you simple date a guy for nine years?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Definitely not, because there are things that I want out
of my life that include being married, and I think
I would have mean me and Patrick did have this
conversations of how long or do you want to date
somebody before you want to get engaged or any of that,
and we didn't have it down to like a science,
but that was important for me to know because if
he didn't want to get married, then I probably wouldn't
(14:33):
want to be with him.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well, I would want to be with him, but not
in that sense.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
How many years did he say?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
He said minimum, he needed to date somebody for a
full year. I said minimum six months.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah that is so fast, but okay, I don't I
don't know. I know I started dating then in the
summer room. We got married at Christmas time, So yeah,
six months.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You got married in six I'm not engaged, I know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Okay, Well, it is just kidding, but my thing was
it's kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, but it depends on how the speed of the
relationship and every relationship can be different. With him, I
knew it six months, and I think for him he
probably also knew it six months, but he also just
needed that extra time to settle in that. I didn't
want to date somebody for more than two years because
at that point you you didn't know if you wanted
to marry me.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Do you think it's helpful for women to give an ultimatum?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I think sometimes they're necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I also think sometimes ultimatums are very similar to boundaries,
and we've put this like connotation to ultimatum set they're
these evil things, but they're a lot of times not.
It's saying this is important to me, and if it's
important to you, okay, you'll do it. If it's not,
you won't. And ultimatum isn't always like if you go
to this party, I'm breaking up with you, you know.
(15:50):
I think we see them as literally petty. But ultimatum
could be if you don't work on your relationship with
drugs and alcohol, I don't know if I can continue
in this relationship. What about if you don't want to
be married, I don't want to be with I'm not
going to be with you.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
It's yes, the marriage is important to me.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I think that we can look at them in a
way that actually it's us standing up for ourselves versus
being these I think women have been given a bad
reputation in using them because I when I hear that,
a lot of times it's women being like I don't
want to give them ultimatum, but I do want to
try to have kids and I want to get married,
and I envision this for my life, and I just
(16:31):
like feel bad doing it and I don't want to
be like the naggy girlfriend. Okay, but part of that
is culture and how they've conditioned us to think us
speaking our needs.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Well, think about it. I just asked you a question.
I only asked women specifically, I didn't say people. Yeah,
so that was some conditioning there.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, so I would challenge anybody who's in that space.
I hear that all the time in my office when
people are talking about the relationships being really scared of
giving ultimatums, And I just say, what if we use
the word boundary, does it feel like?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Oh? I never thought of it. Like, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Again, there's a time and a place if you're like,
if you start eating cheese, I'm breaking up with you.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
That's strange.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Did you see I started drinking cow's milk.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I did see that. It's very interesting. How was it?
It's good?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It froths so much better than really.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Was it whole milk?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Well that makes sense too.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
But I don't even know that I've ever really had
whole milk, because even as a kid, I drink skim
milk in ice water down. I know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Why I milk with ice. Yeah, Oh, I love milk
with ice.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Milk with ice. I mean I did then, and I
guess in the last couple of decades, I've been doing
it with a soy milk or an almond milk, and
then now.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I love a glass of milk over ice. Yeah, drink
a gulp down a glass of milk if I've.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Had cookies or something.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that's actually normal.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I just we didn't grow up drinking milk, so now
I have like an adverse.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Reaction to it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Do you like milk at all in my cereal?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
I mean, but what kind of milk? Okay, but almond
milk or macaw? Yeah, whole milk. I don't know that
I would like. It's really I love chocolate milk, okay. Yeah, Well,
nobody cares.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
If anyone who's wondering. Nobody asks that if.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I'm drinking cow's milk or almond milk. But I think
dairy's making a comeback. Yeah, here for it. Here for it.
Someone said, never married, no kids, age forty. Besides the apps,
how do people meet these days? Well, hinge is not
terro Hinge is an app. It's not terrible, but I
think Uh. One of Cat's friends was telling me at
(18:35):
your shower, a couple shower that we had for you
in Big p that she likes to go to restaurant bars,
like nice restaurants that have a bar that you can
sit at and she'll sit alone with a book or
her journal and a glass of wine, or she'll just
order like a sparkling water with limon or something. She
doesn't have to be drinking alcohol. And she said it's
(18:56):
a great way to meet people.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
She's met multiple people, including the person she's daty right
now doing that.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Boom, Yeah, you could meet someone at the grocery store.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Are you just gonna name it off?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
My place is fantasy. No hobbies or things that you're into,
like if you join a rec league, say you love
soccer or pick a ball or something like that. Church,
different activities. Where can you find people your age that
are gathering? But you got to leave your house so well,
And I was.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Gonna say, you have to be open because when I
hear about ways that people used to meet, specifically like
my parents and grandparents, when they tell stories and stuff
like that, I'm like, you guys were just more open
and offered more eye contact and conversation in public. I
think dating apps have changed dating in general. And so
when you do go to these places, we have to
present ourselves in ways that say hey, I'm open, and
(19:46):
I can strike up a conversation with somebody and look
at them in the eye.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I think, if you tell yourself that in your head,
like I am open, I am available, I am here,
you do walk in with a different presence.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Smiling at people at the grocery store. You both reach
for the last box of cheese its on the shelves,
and then you strike off a funny conversation with them
instead of being like, oh, sorry, and then you run away, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Like, oh did you want those?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Tell me what you like to do with your cheese it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I love cheese it. I love to use that as
an example. My grandma used to always eat cheese its
and drink a coke out of all glass bottle. So okay, well,
my sister and I sometimes will do cheese its and
diet coke. If we're honoring Mama Chris, our grandma, if
we're honoring our dad, we'll do coke and peanuts. Because
my dad would get a bottle of coke and put
peanuts in it, and then he would drive. He would
(20:32):
drink and eat the peanuts while he drinks. I have
an idea, So it was like, you know, hands free.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, I have an idea.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You should hang out at the grocery store, buy the
cheese its, and every time somebody goes to grab a
box you accidentally.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Try to How much time in the day, right, I
don't have to dedicate time?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Do you spend on the daty naps?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Not that much time? I just joined, Well maybe twenty minutes. Yeah,
there also is the uh And also I just realized
I said hands free, but if you're drinking a coke
while you're driving, it's not hands free, but you've got
one hand and it's drinking and eating at the same
time because you got the peanuts in the bottle. Just
clarifying that someone would email me. Maybe there also is
that trend. We talked about the green ring that they
(21:12):
call the pair the pear ring because it's like a
pair ing. Maybe you and I didn't talk about it,
but Bin came on the podcast and we were talking
a little bit about co parenting. He was telling me
about the green ring and it's something that people do
besides the apps where you can order this ring, and
it's sort of known. If you know about the ring
and you see it out, then you know they are
single and looking to date and trying to find someone
(21:33):
like minded and you have talked to them. No, but
you never heard of that? Oh yeah, he e ar
pear because it's green pear ring.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It reminds me of when did you ever have one
of those promise rings that like, if you weren't one
way meant you were with somebody, if you were another
way meant you were single.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, okay, it's like the modern day version of that. Yeah,
it's great.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's easier to see though because it's green.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What if it messes with your outfit or something, you
just get over it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Just get over it. You wear it anyway. I mean,
how bad do you want to meet somebody? So okay,
I would imagine you'd color coordinate, get a few rings
were on every finger. We're on every hand. I'm available,
I am here, I'm ready do all the things? Kat?
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
On Instagram?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
At at Kat dot defada and at You Need Therapy Podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Definitely have more questions that we didn't get to, but
we will answer some of them in a future episode
at some point. And we love reading your emails as well,
so you can send us a note. Four Things with
Amy Brown at gmail dot com and just put fifth
thing in the subject line. And I'm at Radio Amy
on Instagram, and Kat and I both hope that you
are having the day you need to have. Bye.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Bye,
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing. I'm Amy and
I'm Kat and today's quote is from a billboard. I
don't know. I saw it on Instagram, don't even know
who posted it, don't even know if it's a real billboard,
could be photoshop. But I like the quote, and it's
sometimes the things that break your heart end up fixing
your vision, deep deep, which I think it's hard for
(00:27):
you to see it in the moment if you're experiencing
any kind of heartache right now, if something is really painful,
I hope you'll hear that quote and know that it
is hope that eventually you'll get it, you'll have grown
from it, you will learn from it. Sometimes that's not
fun to hear in the moment because you're like, nope,
I would give up this pain and not want to
(00:48):
learn whatever is I have to learn. But I think
that that's another thing that also bonds us as humans
and brings us together and creates community, because down the line,
you're going to be able to be there for somebody
else that is going through something painful.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It reminds me of the Mary Oliver quote that says
someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It took me years to figure out that too. As
a gift. We heard that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, So my old supervisor, I guess you would call him,
told me that quote when when my boyfriends broke up
with me and I was like in the therapist lounge bowling,
trying to like clean myself up so I could go
to a session, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Didn't get it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I didn't understand what it meant, which sounds kind of
like cliche, like I didn't understand what it meant until
I felt it, Like I really didn't understand what he
was saying. And then years later, literally I was like, oh,
it was a gift that he broke up with me
and I felt sad and that my life was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
That was a gift.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
He released me from something I actually didn't want but
didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So was your vision fixed?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Totally clear?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Clear?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, Well, Kat does have some vision problems now when
it comes to men, because look at you now, you're
getting married in seventeen days.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So what are you feeling.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I'm excited for the day.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm excited for the actual ceremony and the reception.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm excited to be married.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I also feel a little bit of sadness, the grief
part of it. Of my life is really changing a lot.
The good news, I think for me is that it's
gonna feel more of a gradual change versus all of
a sudden my whole life has changed since we've lived
together for a while.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
He then, yeah, just kidding, my mom might say that, but.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
No, I would have said that.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I have said that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I would have.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I remember, it's so weird. I remember even probably like
two years before I even met Patrick, would have said,
I don't want to live as somebody before I'm married.
And part of that reason, which I think is fair
for people to say, is back then, I one of
it was I think fear based of what I've been
taught and told would make me good. But the other
(03:02):
part was I wanted there to be some excitement after
being married, because.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Like something different would be the different.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
But that's what is interesting is now I'm grateful that
we've already gone through that because the change and the
difference doesn't feel so like stark and scary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And I think if you are someone that is choosing
to wait, like Ben and I waited for everything. We
waited for all things, We waited for all the things,
and I think there was something beautiful in that. And
if that's your choice, that is totally great too. I
think I just had no wiggle room for it. Oh
I would gasp, you know, thought, Oh I believe. And
(03:39):
now I'm like, oh cool, Yeah, you and Patrick are
loving together and then y'all are getting married, and I
am excited to be there and to stand alongside y'all
be one of your bride'smaids. I'm very, very very excited.
I need to go make sure that there's nothing I
need to do to my dress.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Don't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm like, wait, do I need to alter or anything?
I'll go check that. So I put up a Q
and a box which before we get to that, shout
out Hinge because if you didn't know, Kat and BIGP
met on Hinge and I'm on there now too. But
I currently do not have a date to your wedding yet,
(04:18):
but we have time still.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, are you putting on your Hinge profile looking for
a date to a wedding? No? Okay, should I I've
seen it on there. Oh yeah, like I think in
a way, what are you looking for it. Can people
say a date to a wedding or a wedding date
or something like that. It can be serious and also
like hah, that's funny. Yeah, conversation starter.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Love a good conversation starter. Which these questions, some of
them might be that for some people someone just said
current TV show, and for me it's The Bear and
Masters of the Air, which is a show that just
came out about World War Two. The pilots that were flying.
I don't know they're allusing that pilot's the guy that
was Elvis.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Awesome Butler and somebody directed it. That's famous.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, the same guy that did Band of Brothers.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I don't know. I'll google it while you Doberg, you
know that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Really famous guy you tell your TV show while I well,
I'm currently watching The Bear and I'm in the second season.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm not obsessed with it like everybody else. We also
just finished a show I think it's called Man High Castle.
Have you heard of it?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah? I think i'd watching it a long time ago.
And I give up.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay, yes, because the beginning is very slow, then it
gets really interesting, then it gets really confusing. I told
Patrick it's one of those shows that it feels like
I'm doing work to watch it. But the concept is
really cool, as like if Germany and Japan won the war.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
What the world would be like?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That is what it is about you. It's crazy. Yes, yeah,
I do recall liking that. I don't actually know why
I gave up on it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Probably because it was shart. Yeah, it was really hard
to pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So Masters of the Air, Yes, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks,
and Gary Gotzman. They are the producers of Bandon Brothers
in the Pacific and the show Masters of the Years
about the pilots during World War Two. They were airmen
that risked their lives with the one hundredth Bomb Group,
a brotherhood forged by courage, loss and triumph.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'm kind pretty good band of brothers and what I
don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Oh, that was a really good show from a long
time ago. Shows a series, okay, like I think on
HBO as well.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, maybe I'll watch those two things.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Next question, how did you encap meet each other? Quick
answer to that is I was doing a special series
with my friend Lisa called out Way here on four Things,
talking about I mean the tagline Brailway was a life
without disordered eating outweighs everything, and we were looking for
therapists that specialized in that space. And what are your
friend's moms heard about it and told you about it,
(06:51):
and you sent me an email and I got it,
and I reached out to you and you came up
and recorded, and.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I guess we hit it off. Yeah, history from the.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Rest is history. I've been trying to have a baby
for two years and still not pregnant, So I am
curious how to enjoy life while waiting. And I think
that some of the things that we'll share here under
this could apply to any season of waiting. Maybe you're
not waiting for a baby. You could be waiting for
a partner to show up on hinge. You could be
(07:20):
waiting or not hinge. We have another dating question down
the line of like where to meet people. If it's
not on an app, you'd be waiting for the right
job or insert whatever it is for yourself. But I
think for me in my period of infertility stuff until
we ultimately decided to do adoption, it's a very stressful,
(07:43):
painful time and you live a lot in the past
because you're like, what have I done or what did
I do to my body or what's wrong with me?
And then you also live in the future of like
what are we going to do if we don't have
any kids? So I think if you stay present, that's
the best thing you can do for yourself, because it's
really the only place where you can choose what's going
(08:03):
to happen with your day and how you want to
move forward with it. I get it, it's easier said
than done, but there are things that you can do
that help you stay present.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
There was a therapist that I interviewed on Union Therapy.
Her name is Emily Party, and she founded a counseling
practice that is specifically for moms who are trying to
conceive or maybe they any stage of pregnancy before middle after,
and we were talking about just issues that come up
with all of that, and she said something.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That was so impactful for me.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'm not currently going through that, but in other areas
of waiting, and she said, just because you don't have
what you want right now, it doesn't mean you get nothing.
And I thought that was so wise and helpful, and
it's kind of what you're saying in the same present
is just because you don't have what you're longing for.
(08:57):
It doesn't mean you have nothing in the present moment,
and so is there a way for you to notice.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
That and you can be sad and grateful at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Oh yeah, there's this whole thing. I'm glad you said that.
I wasn't going to go over these but when it's
talking about two things being true at the same time,
I had pulled the screenshot. A listener, Suzanne sent this
to us, and it's all these things that can be
equally true. You are resilient and need a break. You
gave your all and need to back out. You are
(09:27):
independent and still need others. You were sure and things changed.
You are kind and have boundaries. Others have it worse,
and your pain is valid. You did your best and
now you know more. I love that last one. Ali
Fallon and I talked about shame last week on last
Thursday's Four Things, and in looking at any type of
(09:51):
regret or shame, and it's like, had I known been
what I know now, I wouldn't have done that, but
I needed to do it in order to know and learn.
And so you don't look at it as this awful
thing that you did. You can look at it as
information and so yeah, you may have done something. At
the time you were doing your best, you were showing up.
(10:12):
However you knew how to and now you know more.
Something made me go to that when you said two
things can be true. But I think in addition to
being present when you're waiting for something, making sure you're
taking care of yourself is really important. And parts of
self care can help keep you present. Make sure you're
getting enough sleep. If exercise is part of your team
(10:33):
that helps you feel better, I get everybody might not
have that, but are you able to walk or get
outdoors or connect with your friends. Are you able to also,
on the flip side, have time alone because you might
need that. Just make sure that you are cared for,
and a lot of that responsibility is on us to
make sure we're taking care of ourselves. And even gratitude.
If you're trying to stay present and not focus on
(10:56):
everything that's going wrong with your life, gratitude so great
way to do that. Also, talking to others, I think
when it comes to fertility especially, there's some shame associated
with that, and you don't really want to talk about
your medical life with certain people, or you just think
people may not understand or they're going to feel uncomfortable,
but I think that we should give others the opportunity
(11:17):
to show up for us. I think, and you could
have speak more to this cat as a therapist, but
emotions are more manageable when they're said out loud and
you acknowledge them.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
More helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I would say, really is there is a need inside
of every feeling, and so if we don't acknowledge it,
then we can't actually get that need met and it
just gets tangled inside of us.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And people can surprise us.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think the things that you said made sense, and
there might be people that aren't able to offer you
the support that you want. And people can surprise us
in what they're able to sit with if we let them.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I think too staying busy with other things, like if
you have work to focus on, that was really how
full for me? So then my mind wasn't just sitting
there thinking about is my period coming? Is my period coming?
I remember always thinking, Okay, I've got to go get
a test because my period's thirty minutes late. But then
I would go through the process of getting a test,
(12:13):
and then I would be waiting and then it would
be negative and then boom, the next day my period
would come. And if I just had a little more patience,
because I think the taking of the test too is
very like you can take them over and over and
over at least I did. But give yourself other things
to distract you are there projects, you could work on,
different hobbies, and then even if you're accomplishing things, then
(12:35):
you can have that sense of there's something accomplishment of like, look,
I did this, I completed this, I can complete things.
I'm not broken, and that will help boost your self
esteem and your confidence, because I know it can get
really down when you're waiting on something to happen that
you really want to happen, it's not happening, and you
feel broken. So I'm going to leave you this last
statement for this part. But instead of thinking what should
(12:56):
or could have been, focus on what is and what
can be. That's similar to what you were saying, Kat,
but gratitude is another great way to do that, focusing
on the here and now and what do you have
in your life that you are thankful for. Next question
is after nine years, shouldn't a guy want to marry me?
(13:24):
Next question is after nine years shouldn't a guy want
to marry me?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
What is that the question?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Question mark? Okay, yeah, after nine years, shouldn't a guy
want to marry me? Question mark refer back to waiting
for things in the last I would.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Say, there's so much and that depends. Are these people
together for nine years?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes? I would assume after nine years of dating, yeah,
and he would be posing, then something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You have enough information at that point to know if
you want to be with somebody or not.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Right, And I think that ultimately, if you want to
get married and that's not something that he wants to do,
then you have to decide if you really want to
get married and is this something you can live with
if he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Would you simple date a guy for nine years?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Definitely not, because there are things that I want out
of my life that include being married, and I think
I would have mean me and Patrick did have this
conversations of how long or do you want to date
somebody before you want to get engaged or any of that,
and we didn't have it down to like a science,
but that was important for me to know because if
he didn't want to get married, then I probably wouldn't
(14:33):
want to be with him.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well, I would want to be with him, but not
in that sense.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
How many years did he say?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
He said minimum, he needed to date somebody for a
full year. I said minimum six months.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah that is so fast, but okay, I don't I
don't know. I know I started dating then in the
summer room. We got married at Christmas time, So yeah,
six months.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You got married in six I'm not engaged, I know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Okay, Well, it is just kidding, but my thing was
it's kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, but it depends on how the speed of the
relationship and every relationship can be different. With him, I
knew it six months, and I think for him he
probably also knew it six months, but he also just
needed that extra time to settle in that. I didn't
want to date somebody for more than two years because
at that point you you didn't know if you wanted
to marry me.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Do you think it's helpful for women to give an ultimatum?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I think sometimes they're necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I also think sometimes ultimatums are very similar to boundaries,
and we've put this like connotation to ultimatum set they're
these evil things, but they're a lot of times not.
It's saying this is important to me, and if it's
important to you, okay, you'll do it. If it's not,
you won't. And ultimatum isn't always like if you go
to this party, I'm breaking up with you, you know.
(15:50):
I think we see them as literally petty. But ultimatum
could be if you don't work on your relationship with
drugs and alcohol, I don't know if I can continue
in this relationship. What about if you don't want to
be married, I don't want to be with I'm not
going to be with you.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
It's yes, the marriage is important to me.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I think that we can look at them in a
way that actually it's us standing up for ourselves versus
being these I think women have been given a bad
reputation in using them because I when I hear that,
a lot of times it's women being like I don't
want to give them ultimatum, but I do want to
try to have kids and I want to get married,
and I envision this for my life, and I just
(16:31):
like feel bad doing it and I don't want to
be like the naggy girlfriend. Okay, but part of that
is culture and how they've conditioned us to think us
speaking our needs.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Well, think about it. I just asked you a question.
I only asked women specifically, I didn't say people. Yeah,
so that was some conditioning there.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, so I would challenge anybody who's in that space.
I hear that all the time in my office when
people are talking about the relationships being really scared of
giving ultimatums, And I just say, what if we use
the word boundary, does it feel like?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Oh? I never thought of it. Like, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Again, there's a time and a place if you're like,
if you start eating cheese, I'm breaking up with you.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
That's strange.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Did you see I started drinking cow's milk.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I did see that. It's very interesting. How was it?
It's good?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It froths so much better than really.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Was it whole milk?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Well that makes sense too.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
But I don't even know that I've ever really had
whole milk, because even as a kid, I drink skim
milk in ice water down. I know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Why I milk with ice. Yeah, Oh, I love milk
with ice.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Milk with ice. I mean I did then, and I
guess in the last couple of decades, I've been doing
it with a soy milk or an almond milk, and
then now.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I love a glass of milk over ice. Yeah, drink
a gulp down a glass of milk if I've.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Had cookies or something.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that's actually normal.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I just we didn't grow up drinking milk, so now
I have like an adverse.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Reaction to it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Do you like milk at all in my cereal?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
I mean, but what kind of milk? Okay, but almond
milk or macaw? Yeah, whole milk. I don't know that
I would like. It's really I love chocolate milk, okay. Yeah, Well,
nobody cares.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
If anyone who's wondering. Nobody asks that if.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I'm drinking cow's milk or almond milk. But I think
dairy's making a comeback. Yeah, here for it. Here for it.
Someone said, never married, no kids, age forty. Besides the apps,
how do people meet these days? Well, hinge is not
terro Hinge is an app. It's not terrible, but I
think Uh. One of Cat's friends was telling me at
(18:35):
your shower, a couple shower that we had for you
in Big p that she likes to go to restaurant bars,
like nice restaurants that have a bar that you can
sit at and she'll sit alone with a book or
her journal and a glass of wine, or she'll just
order like a sparkling water with limon or something. She
doesn't have to be drinking alcohol. And she said it's
(18:56):
a great way to meet people.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
She's met multiple people, including the person she's daty right
now doing that.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Boom, Yeah, you could meet someone at the grocery store.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Are you just gonna name it off?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
My place is fantasy. No hobbies or things that you're into,
like if you join a rec league, say you love
soccer or pick a ball or something like that. Church,
different activities. Where can you find people your age that
are gathering? But you got to leave your house so well,
And I was.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Gonna say, you have to be open because when I
hear about ways that people used to meet, specifically like
my parents and grandparents, when they tell stories and stuff
like that, I'm like, you guys were just more open
and offered more eye contact and conversation in public. I
think dating apps have changed dating in general. And so
when you do go to these places, we have to
present ourselves in ways that say hey, I'm open, and
(19:46):
I can strike up a conversation with somebody and look
at them in the eye.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I think, if you tell yourself that in your head,
like I am open, I am available, I am here,
you do walk in with a different presence.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Smiling at people at the grocery store. You both reach
for the last box of cheese its on the shelves,
and then you strike off a funny conversation with them
instead of being like, oh, sorry, and then you run away, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Like, oh did you want those?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Tell me what you like to do with your cheese it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I love cheese it. I love to use that as
an example. My grandma used to always eat cheese its
and drink a coke out of all glass bottle. So okay, well,
my sister and I sometimes will do cheese its and
diet coke. If we're honoring Mama Chris, our grandma, if
we're honoring our dad, we'll do coke and peanuts. Because
my dad would get a bottle of coke and put
peanuts in it, and then he would drive. He would
(20:32):
drink and eat the peanuts while he drinks. I have
an idea, So it was like, you know, hands free.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, I have an idea.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You should hang out at the grocery store, buy the
cheese its, and every time somebody goes to grab a
box you accidentally.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Try to How much time in the day, right, I
don't have to dedicate time?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Do you spend on the daty naps?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Not that much time? I just joined, Well maybe twenty minutes. Yeah,
there also is the uh And also I just realized
I said hands free, but if you're drinking a coke
while you're driving, it's not hands free, but you've got
one hand and it's drinking and eating at the same
time because you got the peanuts in the bottle. Just
clarifying that someone would email me. Maybe there also is
that trend. We talked about the green ring that they
(21:12):
call the pair the pear ring because it's like a
pair ing. Maybe you and I didn't talk about it,
but Bin came on the podcast and we were talking
a little bit about co parenting. He was telling me
about the green ring and it's something that people do
besides the apps where you can order this ring, and
it's sort of known. If you know about the ring
and you see it out, then you know they are
single and looking to date and trying to find someone
(21:33):
like minded and you have talked to them. No, but
you never heard of that? Oh yeah, he e ar
pear because it's green pear ring.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It reminds me of when did you ever have one
of those promise rings that like, if you weren't one
way meant you were with somebody, if you were another
way meant you were single.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, okay, it's like the modern day version of that. Yeah,
it's great.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's easier to see though because it's green.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What if it messes with your outfit or something, you
just get over it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Just get over it. You wear it anyway. I mean,
how bad do you want to meet somebody? So okay,
I would imagine you'd color coordinate, get a few rings
were on every finger. We're on every hand. I'm available,
I am here, I'm ready do all the things? Kat?
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
On Instagram?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
At at Kat dot defada and at You Need Therapy Podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Definitely have more questions that we didn't get to, but
we will answer some of them in a future episode
at some point. And we love reading your emails as well,
so you can send us a note. Four Things with
Amy Brown at gmail dot com and just put fifth
thing in the subject line. And I'm at Radio Amy
on Instagram, and Kat and I both hope that you
are having the day you need to have. Bye.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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