October 18, 2023 • 48 mins
Description: CONTENT WARNING: this podcast involves stories of childhood sexual abuse.
As a survivor of child sexual assault of the 1999 child pornography case in Willow River, BC, Jessalynn Biederstadt, has shown immense strength in her healing journey. She has spent years working to overcome the trauma she faced and one thing that has helped her most on her journey to building the extraordinary life she has today is speaking with others to share stories of strength and resilience. Jessalynn is now turning her pain into purpose and aims to break the silence and stigma surrounding trauma through honest conversations on her podcast Invisible Scars. She joined Kelly to tell her story of tragedy and triumph.
Podcast: Invisible Scars
Socials: @invisiblescarspodcast
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
As a survivor of child sexual assault, of the nineteen
ninety nine child pornography case and Willow River, Jesselyn Beeterstadt
has shown immense strength in her healing journey. She spent
years working to overcome the trauma she faced, and one
thing that has helped her most on her journey to
building the extraordinary life she has today is speaking with
others to share stories of strength and resilience. Jesselyn aims
(00:30):
to bring the silence and stigma around surrounding trauma through
honest conversations on her podcast, Invisible Scars, and she's here
with us today to share her story. Jesselin, Hi, thank
you so much for being with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Oh, Kelly, thank you so much for having me honestly
listening to you say that brought tears to my eyes
because it's just so validating. I appreciate that so much.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, we thought we were talking a little bit before
the podcast, and you said, so much of this story
has been silenced within you for your whole entire life,
and I want to get into why you you've decided
to speak out now and do the work that you're
doing later. But obviously we need to give listeners a
little bit of background. I told you I've been listening
to your podcast where you do such a great job
(01:10):
of telling the story with your best friend, which I
think is just such a beautiful way to do it.
But yeah, I'm still a little shaken, if I'm being honest,
from listening to the story. And so just to just
to kind of give you guys listening, just a warning,
this is a tough story and it does involve child
sexual assault, So take that into consideration where you're listening
(01:32):
and when you're listening. But if you would do us
just such an honor to listen to the story, and
I would hope that you can tell it in a
way that works for you. So how would you like
to start?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, you know, like you said, it is a really
it's hard for people to absorb. It's hard to hear.
But at the same time, I just think it's so
important for people to listen because these are things that
are not talked about, you know, these are things that
people are so I lanced on for so many years
and honestly, Kelly, like since launching this. I had severe,
(02:06):
like emotional hangover after recording my year stuff right, Like
I just the night before we launched, I was like,
what am I doing? What business do I have? People
are not going to want to hear this, But the
amount of feedback of other survivors coming forward and saying
thank you so much, Like I've never told anybody, I've
never said a word about this. I've been living with this.
(02:27):
It's killing me. Thank you. I feel seen like it
is important. So those tough conversations, just the shame around
sexual assault, the shame around trauma, the shame around abuse
as survivors, that only goes away when we start sharing
our stories, you know, And I just think this it's pivotal,
especially in the world that we're living in today. You know,
(02:49):
there's so much darkness, but I've come out the other
side of it, and I'm so proud of where I
am and I want to share with other people. You know,
how I got there. It wasn't bright and shiny and perfect.
It was frick and dark, and it was hard. But
the work is worth it and it's an important story
to tell.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I completely agree, and I always feel like, you know,
this is the reason that twelve step groups work, right, Like,
we heal with each other and we heal with connection
and knowing that we're not alone. I truly believe that,
And so when I was listening to your story, I
was thinking, for one, it's amazing to me and it's
very obvious how much work you've done on your own
(03:27):
to be able to even verbalize these things that happened
or that you went through. But also what a gift
you're giving to anyone else who's really struggling with actually
speaking up, Because I know that's one of the main
responses our body has to trauma, right We just immediately
want to stuff it and go silent, and a lot
of us go into freeze mode. So being able to
verbalize it in the way that you do it just
(03:49):
shows such a mint strength. Like we said in the intro,
so let's give listeners a little bit of the backstory.
Before this case came into play in your life, it
wasn't like your life was just all peachy and keen either.
There was a lot going on at home. So can
you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, I'll take you guys back to the beginning. You know,
I had a mom who had me really really young.
She had substance abuse problems. She was never connected to me,
So there was a lot of trouble in our home.
There was a ton of you know, domestic abuse, there
was a ton of drug use. I was physically abused,
mentally abused. I was always really afraid of my mom.
(04:30):
I lived in a ton of fear my whole life.
So from a very young age, I was in fight
or flight constantly, where you know, I would be hiding
in closets or walking myself in my room while she'd
have parties and there'd be drugs and bikers in my house,
you know, Like I would wake up in the mornings
and there would be like a mirror with drugs on
it in the morning. You know. I always knew what
(04:50):
that was from a very young age. So when this
all kind of came to be, I had already gone
through a lot of trauma. I had already learned how
to read a room. My instincts were, my survival instincts
were incredibly polished, right, So I had to learn if
I was in danger all the time, if I was
walking into the living room or if I was getting
(05:12):
up in the morning. I was always trying to decide
if it was a safe place for me to be.
So looking back now after I've met those people, you know,
my spidy senses were going off. And I talk a
little bit about that in my story, but yeah, I
was introduced to them by my mom and my grandfather.
Both my mom and my grandfather had drug abuse problems,
(05:33):
alcohol abuse problems and were going down like a really
a really bad path, and they introduced us to them,
and it kind of all started to unravel and the
story kept going even after that, which we can get into.
But you know, I say in the in my podcast
that talking about my instincts, there was one moment, so
(05:55):
those my abusers would get me to come babysit at
nine years old. They had this baby, and they would
get me at nine to come and babysit, and that's
kind of how they how they got me there. But
there was one moment where I really wanted a chocolate bar,
and I told them that I didn't like chocolate, so
I wasn't going to have one. I was trying to
be really appeasing, which is what I was trained to do.
I just was there to do what they needed me
(06:17):
to do and not be seen and not be a problem.
So later, I remember I really wanted that chocolate bar,
and I went to the cupboard to get it, and
I stopped, and I looked at the roof and thought
to myself, what if they have cameras in here and
they can tell that I lied and I put it back.
Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's great, And we'll get into why that's so significant
in just a second. But when I was listening to
you tell your story, I thought to myself, at such
a young age, we as humans just know we have
just intuitions, and we're trained throughout our life to just
not pay attention to that, to not trust that, to
dismiss it for whatever reason. But I do feel like
our bodies, we can always trust our bodies, and if
(06:58):
we were taught to do that at such young age
or embrace that, God, what a gift that would be. Well,
we're taught the opposite. So it's crazy that you did.
You had those instincts.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I knew, you know, I knew, And I also, I mean,
I remember the night I met them, and I was
very very close with my grandfather, And this is actually
a piece of my story that has been the hardest
to recover from is that the knowing how he knew them.
And I will never forget the night I met them.
(07:28):
My grandfather was already there. It was very late at night.
My parents took us they'd left a party and said
we were going to see Papa. And we pulled up
to this trailer in this trailer park, and we walked
in and my grandfather was sitting at the table with
his arm on the table, looking straight ahead. And it
was very unusual for him to not fully embrace me
and be so happy to see me, and it was
(07:50):
very clear that it was a very serious situation, and
he would not look at me, and he would not
talk to me. And I knowing what I know now
and as time goes on, I do believe that there
was some sort of arrangement made that we were being
scoped out, that we were brought there to see if
we would be a good fit for these people. And
I do believe that he knew.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
The betrayal in that In and of itself, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
That was a tough one for me to get past.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. So when you talk
about them, we're talking about the two abusers, and they
were in a couple from what I'm understanding, and she
was very young as well.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
But yeah, they had seventeen when they got together. Wow,
and he was I think thirty six or thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Okay, they ended up having a child, and as you said,
they would bring you in as the babysitter, which, by
the way, you were really young to be doing as well.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, I was nine, and you know that something I've
had to deal with as i'm older, like holding some
of the people accountable that were in my life at
that time, saying, you know, who let this happen? Who
thought that this was okay? Because I mean we all know,
as like responsible adults, that's not okay, right.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Like, yeah, so when you would go over what would happen,
it was like you were babysitting, so these people were
not there, Like, can you tell us a little bit
about what the arrangement looked like?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, So you know where they lived at the time
was a little community called Willow River, and it was
about forty minutes out of town, and they would even
get me to come on school nights and say they
would just drive me to school in the morning, so
she would come in and pick me up and on
the way back out to her house, she would say
things to me like are you are you a light sleeper?
(09:36):
And because I'm babysitting, my immediate response was, oh, yes,
like if the baby wakes up, I will absolutely hear
her trying to be responsible. So then she would say
to me, well, our house is still loud, so I'm
just going to give you this pill that will help
you sleep. And it was one common theme between all
the victim was victims sorry, It was that she would
give them these little blue pills, and so I would
(09:56):
take the pills and that would be the last thing
I would remin and I have memories of when they'd
wear off and I'd wake up and they would be
dressing me or helping me walk or do whatever, and
then I wouldn't remember anything. And then the next thing
I would remember, I was in the lineup for school
(10:17):
at elementary school.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So you just were completely blacked out. Did you ever
find out what that was that they were giving them?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, if you google it, it's in the it's in
the news articles, but I can't remember offhand what it's called.
But every victim had the same story. They all, Yeah,
they all had the same pill that they were given.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So then you would just wake up completely without memory
of anything that had happened. And then they would just
drop you off at school.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, they would just drop me off at school, and
that's the next thing I'd remember, like how did I
get here? What happened? And you know, it started to
be really I'd question it. I was a little bit confused,
and I had a trusted adult in my life who
I was really close with, who I would go to
their place on the weekends because my mom's was really unsafe,
and I I had said to her, you know, they're
giving me these pills to help me sleep, but I
(11:04):
don't kind of remember anything. And I remember her saying
to me, like, oh my god, what like next time,
don't take them. So as an adult now, I'm like
that was a terrible response, but you know, at the time,
I trusted them, and I was so unhappy and scared
at home, and that's part of how they groomed me, right,
It was like, that's important to note too, is how
(11:27):
these people groom children and families. They don't just groom
the children, they're essentially grooming the parents as well. If
they're unaware of the situation.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You know what do you mean by that? Can you
say more?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, So the way that they would groom me was
that they would really play on my relationship with my mom.
And because Crystal the girl was so young, she would
say things like, my mom was awful too. I know
you have a hard time at home. I'm going to
try and get you out of the house and take
you shopping and you can come here anytime if you
need a break. Like for the first time, I felt
(12:00):
so safe and loved and seen and heard. Right, So
she really really played on that. And you know, talking
to some of the other victims of this, I mean
I have a belief my mom knew what was going on,
but other people when you talk about how they've groomed
their parents, you know, just telling them that they like
taking them on vacations or you know, offering help with
(12:22):
food and dropping off groceries and just like really making
them feel like they're trusted people in your life that
want to be there to help you. Okay, And they're
very good at it, right, Like that's their worse. Yeah,
they're very very good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Very convincing. Yeah, And I'm assuming it's like if you
don't have a good home life too. I mean you've
also talked about this, like you feeling this responsibility. Oh
I'm a light sleeper. You were already in that place
of trying to do adult things as a child like
that over responsibility and wanting to show up. So I'd
imagine one you weren't asking for a lot of help,
(12:55):
but two, really, where would you ask for help from?
You didn't have that as a resource. It was like
you could call home and be like, what do I
do here? Anything like that. There was no safe space.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
There was no safe space. And you know, after I
had spoken to my trusted adult and she told me
never to take it again, that really rang true to me.
And the last time that you know, this had gone
on for quite a while, probably a year or more
of me going there and not remembering anything, and you know,
the last time it ever happened, that voice was in
(13:27):
my head. And they picked me up and told my
parents that they wanted to meet a babysit and offered
my three year old brother to come as well, which
he did often, And when we got back out to
their trailer, they said, we know you've been having a
hard time at home, so we're actually not going out.
(13:47):
We just wanted to get you guys away from your
house so we could have some time together. And you know,
it was Kelly like they did a good fricking job.
Like they took us through their neighborhood and they introduced
us to their neighbors, and they ordered pizza and we
played outside as a family and played board games and
watched a movie like those were things we didn't have
at home. So it felt so like I remember thinking,
(14:09):
I wish I lived here. Yeah, I wish these were
my parents, right, So that just goes to show how
well they did groom me.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, And of course it would like lower your defenses
in general, because you're having so much fun. You're getting
to do things you didn't ever get to do. That's
so exciting as a kid. Yeah, I thought they were
so cool.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And because she was so young too, right, Like, yeah,
she was only nineteen at that time, so I felt
just like she was so cool. And there were odd
rules in their house, but I kind of looked past it. Right.
So there was a room we weren't a let to
go in, and that was his office, and I was
always really curious of what was in there, but it
was very clear that you know, you don't go in there,
(14:49):
which turned out to be that's world like the closed
circuit TVs and recording devices were because that entire trailer
was outfitted in video.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, so talk us through that last night because I
know that that was I believe in your story that
I heard it was the last night that you were there.
But so they take you on this trip that are
you know they're there this time. They're making you guys
do all these things or having you guys do all
these things that you love, that you drop your defenses,
you're having fun, your younger brother is with you. Than
(15:21):
what happened.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So the night goes on and her husband, Jim, is
going to go to bed, so he leaves and it's
just the three of us and we're on the couch
in the living room watching Ace Venture a Pet Detective,
and she kind of pulls me aside to the table
and wants to have conversations like my mom would never
have with me, like about boys or getting your period
(15:44):
or whatever, like just trying to really make me feel
like she she hears me. And so finally she's like,
you know, I'm going to give you that pill again.
Tonight because it's there's things going on with a washer
or something. And so she gave me two this time
instead of one, and I put them in my napkin
from my pizza and I didn't take them, and I
(16:06):
knew I had that voice in my head from my
trusted adult, you know, telling me like, don't take them
next time. So I was like, okay, I'm not going
to take them. So I put them in. I put
them in my napkin and threw my napkin out in
the garbage in the bathroom, and I told her, you know,
I'm tired and I'm going to lay down on the
couch is where we normally slept. And she said to me,
(16:28):
I'm going to let your brother keep watching this, so
I'm going to put you in bed with Jim. And
I said no, and she said, oh, don't worry. He
sleeps naked, but he he's a heavy sleeper. He won't
even know you're there. And I remember being so scared,
like I couldn't feel my legs. She walked me down
the hallway and put me in bed with him, and
(16:48):
I remember everything.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you were nine.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I was nine, Yeah, yeah. And it didn't take him
long to start trying to touch me, and I'd roll away,
pretend I was sleeping. And this went on for a while,
and he tried very aggressively, and then he kind of
started to figure out that I wasn't complying, like I
was a little bit fighting too hard. And I remember
(17:12):
him getting up and walking away, and he had no
clothes on, and I was so scared. I just laid
there and I could hear them talking, and she came
into the bedroom and sat on the end of the bed,
and she was mad. She was very angry with me
and asked me why didn't take the pills. She got
very angry and a defensive and said that he only
(17:34):
did that to me to make sure I would never
touch his daughter inappropriately. That I passed the test.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So just complete gas lighting completely. And your response. I
thought this was so fascinating too, because it goes back
to that overresponsibility, because you were so responsible as a child,
and then you thought, okay, well, good at past the test.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah. I literally thought, okay, thank goodness, I did it. Okay,
I'm responsible, you know. Yeah. So she was mad, and
it's a very small trailer, so she said to me,
you know, I'm going to put you back in bed
on the couch, like this is enough. She's mad, and
I remember thinking I'm gonna have to walk past him,
like I am terrified. I'm going to have to walk
past him. And he was nowhere to be found. And
(18:26):
so she put me on the couch and I laid
there and I couldn't go to sleep, and I could
hear him coming back down the hallway after a while,
and my brother was on the couch across from me,
and I knew that I had to pretend I was sleeping,
and I completely froze, and he came up beside me
and put his hands on my shoulders and like left
(18:49):
them there. It felt like forever. It was probably like
ten or fifteen seconds, but just to see if i'd move.
It was like this game of chicken, right, And I
held my breath and I did not move, And then
he walked away and I watched him pick up my
brother and take him down the hallway. And that was
the hardest moment of my life. It was awful. It's
something I've had to work on for like twenty seven
(19:11):
years and therapy. So I got up and I was panicked,
and I thought I need help, and I almost ran
outside of the trailer, and I remembered I had just
met the neighbors and I went to go. I was like,
I don't even have time to put my shoes on,
Like I just have to go, and something stopped me.
And I was like, what if they're in on it
(19:32):
and they kill me? And so I didn't go, and
then I kept looking around, looking around. There's no phone.
And it was the first time that I realized there
was no phone out there. And all those times I
had Babi said I didn't know because I was drugged,
I was asleep, and it was the first time I
realized I had no phone and no options and there
was nothing I could do besides go get back on
(19:53):
the couch and try and go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And so you did. Yeah, it was the.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Hardest thing to overcome was knowing that I couldn't protect
my brother because I always did right like I from
my mom and everything at home. I always protected him.
So that was a really hard one for me to
let go. But you know, it's important to know that
like these horrible things that you think that are going
to eat you alive. What I've learned through therapy is
(20:25):
that I actually saved our lives that night, because if
I had done anything other than what I did, they
would have killed us. They were very dangerous people, and
we've learned through trial and what they wrote in their journals,
you know how dangerous it really was that we were there,
And I've learned that to reframe it as I couldn't
stalk what happened to him, But I did save our lives.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Right, which ultimately was a better gift obviously. But I
obviously understand too. I'm an older sister as well, so
I understand that, like the big protective sister, yeah, and
how that would torture you. But again also not your
job as a child as well. You know, I just
because even when I was listening and I'm just listening
to it again, it's like I hear the things that
(21:09):
you were even asking of yourself as a child, like
thinking that was your job, you know, like that just
breaks my heart in general, hearing that because none of
that was your job. Well, so then after that happens,
how did it? And I think that was the last
time you guys were over there, thankfully, right, And so
what ended up happening to get these people caught?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You know, I actually don't know. From what I've read,
the police have been been trying to build a case
on them for a long time. From what I've read
in the media, he had a very long record, I
mean very violent. There was other suspicions of sexual abuse
on children before in a different province in Canada, and
(21:53):
I think that they had been building a case for
a long time. So I never had to go back there.
I did have to see them a couple times after
that through my grandfather, unfortunately, but we were never alone again.
And then the next time it came to be it
was my birthday and I was picked up from school,
which was very odd, and my mom said, we're going
(22:14):
to the police station. They want to ask you some
questions about him and Crystal. And I've never been so
scared in my.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Life, really, because you immediately knew why.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I knew why, And then I like, as a child too,
it's hard to understand if you were in trouble or
if they're in trouble, and it's embarrassing to talk about
those things, right like, especially if you don't have parents
that have made you comfortable talking about your body or
things that are safe and unsafe. We never had those conversations,
so it felt it felt like I was in trouble.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Right, Isn't that The thing that most I believe that
most sexual assault survivors say is like, you don't know
what part of it was you or I know a
lot of people have struggled with like your body's reaction
and all of these just takeing on the guilt feelings
of something that's completely not your fault, but not knowing
how to navigate that part of it.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
So true, And you know, like talking to other survivors
who have come on my podcast, you know, the key
and other experts on this, the key to trauma survivors
having a successful life later is early intervention with connection
and therapy and validation. And I had none of those
(23:26):
things right, So, and I didn't have any support system.
So the terror inside of me, it was so elevated
because I thought my mom would be mad at me.
I thought the police were going to be mad at me.
I didn't know if I was going to be put
in jail. Like those irrational thoughts just spiral.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, well, and the hard thing about your story, and
I mean we've kind of already touched on this, but again,
not having that safe space. So even once they're arrested,
and I believe you tell the story to the police,
I'm assuming they get put in jail. All of that,
I'm sure was a longer process than we're making it
sound like. But but then it's like you go back
home and you still have a pretty broken relationship with
(24:06):
your mom, right she was an addict? And did you
guys get taken away? Is that what happened next?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
We did? You know? Before we even went to trial,
I had been taken away from my mom and went
to go live with my aunt, is where I always
wanted to be, and you know, my mom didn't like that,
so we ended up in foster care. So I came
home from school one day, happy, finally feeling really at peace,
and there was a strange car in my driveway at
(24:35):
my aunt's house. And so I walked up and it
was Social Services and everything I owned was in a
black garbage bag and there was nothing I could do,
and my uncle was standing there and he was like,
I'm so sorry, Jess, like there's nothing I can do.
And I was put in a car and dropped off
at a stranger's house. So we were going through all
(24:56):
of that and you know, before that even happened, I
actually made the choice to leave my mom's house. That
was my choice. I finally had enough. And now I
can look back and say, holy frick, how brave I
was to stand up to her, because I was really scared. Right,
So one night I just said, I'm not coming home.
And you know, the last thing my mom ever said
to me was if you ever stepped foot on my
(25:18):
doorstep again, I'll fucking kill you. And I was eleven,
and I was just like, I'm done. So I left
my mom's house with nothing. She wouldn't let me have
any of my stuff. And then that day when social
Services showed up, the few things I did have were
in a black garbage bag and I was dropped off
somewhere really strange. So it was just constant. You know,
(25:39):
I had no safe space, I had no peace. I'd
never experienced peace, you know, so it was really difficult.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Well, I hope that when you're telling the story, you
can look at yourself the way that I look at
you hearing this story, and just the immense amount of
survival skills and strength that that takes. I mean as
a child specifically, and to me, the biggest part of
that is the people who were supposed to protect you
and love you the most betrayed you and just kind
(26:10):
of grappling with that. And so I love that you're
telling your story now and I want to shift into
the positive parts of that. Also, if you guys want
to hear more about Jesslyn's story, I'll put a link
to her podcast in the description of this podcast. But
with that said, I know you get through these huge,
huge traumas and like I said, what I mean, immense
strength you showed and the survival and all of that,
(26:33):
But I know the journey doesn't stop there. And I
know that in listening to even just the betrayal that
we've discussed here, I would imagine relationships in general and
just trusting people and navigating that as an adult would
be very, very difficult. So can you talk a little
bit about what that journey has been like for you,
because I don't want to, you know, dismiss the fact
(26:56):
that this is a lifelong journey, and I know anyone
listening like there should be no shame in the fact
that it's not like the trauma ends and then you're
just fine. So can you tell the listeners a little
bit about just what it's like to navigate. You know,
I know you're married, now you have kids of your own,
like family dynamics, relationships, love, friendships, what does that look
(27:18):
like for you?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
You know, for many years it was hard. You would
think I would be very untrusting, but I found myself
to be the complete opposite because I was creating that
loving connection that I never had as a child. So
I trusted everybody too quickly because I just really needed love.
I really needed that affection and which got me into
(27:41):
you know, bad situations with people which I ended up
putting myself in harmful situations. I made a ton of
mistakes as an unhealed person, I hurt people, and you know,
it's it's been such a journey and today Jesselyn is
so different and I think that looking back, what has
changed me number one the most is sharing my story.
(28:03):
So when you say to me, I hope that you
see yourself the way I do as such a strong person.
You know, a few years ago, I would have been
so uncomfortable and been like Kelly, shut up like that.
I don't relate to that, like no thank you, no
thank you. Like it would have been very very rejected
by me, and through me actually saying it out loud
and actually talking about it, I do feel that way
(28:24):
about myself. And it's taken a while because that also
felt incredibly conceited and narcissistic to me, like it just
didn't come naturally for me to give myself praise for
those things, right. So that's been a journey. Only in
the last like year and a half, through me really
trying to heal from these things, have I been able
(28:44):
to set healthy boundaries with people in my life. I
was very much allowing people to treat me any way
they wanted, and I would just be quiet about it
because I didn't want to cause problems, right. And it's interesting,
like you hear all the time that when you start healing,
(29:04):
you go through this great season of loss, and I
don't think it's talked about enough. And you know, there's
certain people in your life who are only going to
love and appreciate that broken version of you because that
fits for them, right, right, And you know, I've had
a lot of loss in the last year through all
of this, and I am okay with that. I am
(29:29):
okay with where I am now, and just appreciating that
people were in my life for the reasons they were
in it, and also knowing that the people that didn't
protect me, they did the best they could with what
they had, right with what they could have, what they
had for themselves, the resources, the self respect they had
for whatever trauma they had that they weren't healed from.
(29:50):
And I think like getting to a point of being
able to accept that is so so important. That's where
the healing comes in, right, Like, it's that's where the
healing from these things is important. And I am not
responsible for what happened to me, but I am responsible
for my own life now and how I treat people
and how I show up for my family and myself.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Was there a part of you that wanted to I
know you mentioned in your podcast you had these amazing
foster parents for a minute, and it's a really difficult
thing for you now to have a relationship with them
just because it brings you back to that time, which
makes total sense to me. So is there anyone from
that time that you do have relationships with? And what
is what are your family relationships like? Are you still
(30:30):
in touch with your brother or your mom or anyone?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
I'm not you know, my brother and I got separated
in foster care and we have not seen each other since.
It's really painful. You know, I had a lot of
family members who would say you abandoned him, and he
doesn't understand. But what they're not understanding was I was ten,
and you know it wasn't my responsibility and the guilt
(30:57):
I carried for what happened to him, I couldn't face
him for so many years. And Mom is just a
really you know, she has her own demons and I
no longer hate her, but we will never have a relationship.
She is just a really dangerous person. And I never
knew my real dad, my grandfather, who I was very
(31:19):
close with prior to this. He passed away about five
or six years ago, but we didn't have a relationship either.
He's just not a good person. And you know, my
aunt who I lived with her, her children became my
brothers and they are my brothers to this day and
I love them so much and we are very very close.
But really that's it.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, just too traumatic, too.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Traumatic, and a long line of really toxic behaviors and
trauma that's not healed, and they have to figure out
their own stuff, Like when you break those cycles. You
have to break those cycles, you know, And no one
actually talks about the humility it takes and the strength
that takes to be able to be the cycle breaker
(32:02):
and figure out how to deal with your emotions and
you know, heal your inner child, and it takes a
lot of work. And when you come out the other side,
you're not the same person and they may not like
who you are. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Well, we mentioned you're married as well, so what is
that like? And you know, and I guess I have
a couple questions with that. I think that a lot
of times when we come from toxic family dynamics, we
end up repeating those patterns as adults. You know, Like,
like you mentioned, maybe you had some relationships that you
couldn't you weren't available to set boundaries in because that's
(32:38):
never what you were taught as a kid, So you
just repeat that cycle. You have toxic people in your life.
Did you feel like that was something you brought into
your romantic relationships for a long time? How did that
go meeting your husband? And does that still come up
within y'all's relationship at this point?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Oh God, yes to all of the above. Honestly, I was.
I had pushed it aside so much when I had
met my husband that he didn't even know. Like when
we finally talked about it, he was completely shocked because
I had hit it so well, and he was you know,
over the course of our fifteen years together, he would
(33:13):
we would get in these major fights because I would
be like, how do you not know what happened to me?
Like you're triggering me right now and you're getting mad
at me, and he'd be like, but jessln you hide
it so well, like I forget, Like I will be
completely fine living my life and then something will trigger
me and that's it. I'm a completely unhinged person, right,
So that was really really difficult, and we would have
(33:34):
these explosive fights. I mean, no one, neither one of
us would know how to communicate properly, especially when I
have all this unhealed trauma. And you know, it's interesting,
like thinking about intimate relationships and what that's like for
a sexual assault, a sexual abuse survivor. You know, there
is things that people don't understand that you know, you
(33:54):
can have physical pain that just happens immediately and you
even him kissing me, I would have physical pain through
my body, and it's something I would have to really
work through, and it's something that we had to work
through together, and it shows up in our relationship today
in different ways, definitely not the same. You know, when
I started to really when I said to him, I'm
(34:17):
you're in or you're out. I have to deal with this,
and I think it's important for people to hear too.
You know a lot of couples who have one partner
who has been through something like this, the other partner
is usually very afraid for them to start healing. And
his fear was he would lose me, I wouldn't be
(34:38):
the same person, or I wouldn't like him anymore, or
I would leave him behind, or it wasn't a good time,
Like everyone always thinks that there has to be a
good time to do this, But the time to do
it is when you feel ready, because no one can
tell you when you're ready. But you know, that was
a pivotal moment in our relationship was I sat him
down in the kitchen and I was like, I know
you're afraid for me to do this, but you have
(34:59):
no choice, like you're in or you're out, but I'm
doing it. And he was fantastic, Like, yeah, so he
had started therapy as well to try and help navigate
his emotions through it, because you know what also people
don't talk about in this is when you're going through it,
your partner's needs are really pushed aside, and he needed
help with that as well. And I really really believe
(35:22):
that when you're in a relationship and you're trying to
process something so traumatic, it's a two person job. It
is both of you because you need each other and
you can't do it on your own.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
If you had to give anyone in a relationship advice
that's going through this, like, how would you tell us,
as friends or loved ones of someone trying to heal
from trauma? What's the best way to support someone through that?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Oh gosh, honestly, don't try and fix it, don't try
to give advice because we've probably thought of everything, and
just let them go through their emotions. I think the
biggest thing is to not take any offense to the
things that they do or say, like what comes out
of their mouth when they're really in those low moments.
(36:11):
You know, Like Kelly, there were moments when I was
in the thick of this where I could not get
out of bed. I was launching my brand new store online.
It was supposed to be the happiest time of my life.
And I would literally like get up, turn a lamp on,
make some posts, and then lay back down like I
had nothing to give. And he would come in and
(36:32):
he would hold me, and I would cry, and then
there be moments where the anger would just freaking spew
out of me and he's in my line of fire,
and I would say things I didn't mean and he
would just hug me and hold me and say, I
know you don't mean that. I'm here, say whatever you
need to say. And I think that that was like
the key for me, was allowing me to say whatever
(36:53):
I needed to say in those moments and just be
there and not try and fix it, because when he
would come at me and say, well, maybe try this,
or maybe have you thought of this, like, yes, I've
thought of it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Like I've been thinking of it since I'm not I know,
like I'm hyper vigilant, I know all the things.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just the patience.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, and I hear everything you just said. I'm like, okay,
well you were in freeze response, you were in fight response,
Like maybe educating yourself on traumatic responses in general would
be helpful because all of those things that you just
said are just your body's reaction to like letting go
of that.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ooh, I love that you said that, because that is key.
Like I really took the time to educate myself on
and I found it fascinating because then it was also like,
oh my god, this is why I'm doing this, Like
I don't feel it's such a crazy person, Like I
don't feel like such a leper anymore. Like this is amazing,
and you know, as trauma survivors too, it's really hard
(37:48):
for me. Anyways, it was very hard for me to
focus on school, to read a book, to remember what
I read. And I found that once I was reading
about myself and learning about myself, that's when it became
I was able to absorb it. And it's been pivotal.
I think as a trauma survivor, that would be my advice.
Educate yourself on your body's response is what you're going through,
(38:09):
because it's going to make you feel so normal, so
seen and ready.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right, because if you don't know, it does feel crazy,
like especially as it's releasing, I can relate so much.
My experiences were obviously different, but as trauma has been
releasing from my body throughout the years, it's like you
literally feel insane or you're like, why am I so lazy? Like,
all of a sudden, I cannot function. I have no drive.
(38:34):
And if you're anything like me, which I assume you
are based off of the way you were brought up,
but like you're an overachiever and all of the you're
very driven, you know, and so to not be able
to function is like, what is wrong with me?
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Oh? The lazy word? Like that is imprinted in my head,
Like I would constantly be like, why am I so lazy?
And I think that is just the key to educate yourself.
And you know what else I did for me too,
was as someone who's and through something. You know, in
those unhealed years, I was not the best version of myself.
I was not a great person. I was hurting people
(39:08):
I loved, I was saying things I didn't mean. I
was making huge mistakes. And now that I've learned a
little bit about it, I've been able to forgive myself.
And I think that that is a really big piece
as well, is just giving yourself grace. You can still
hold yourself accountable for those things, but also just forgive
yourself because it's really really vital.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah. Well, our word this month on the podcast is cobwebs,
which your story in so many ways hits that it's
just like what's lurking behind the cobwebs in the shadows.
And there was a moment in the podcast that I
listened to where you said you spent most of your
life hiding from this story and just pretending like everything
was okay. So what was the moment that she's decided
okay and no more hiding and now I'm ready to talk.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know, I had a really bad experience with a
friend and it really triggered me in a way that
I was not fully understanding in the moment. You know,
I felt so hurt and so betrayed and it threw
me over the edge and I ended up in therapy
because of that, and through therapy I learned why it
(40:16):
triggered me. So, first of all, someone had done something
to me and then asked me to keep it a secret.
So there's trigger number one where it takes me back
to when I was a kid and when they were
doing these horrible things to me and said, you can
never tell anyone. We'll kill your family, we'll kill you,
we'll kill your brother. You know, it was me being
silenced again, so that threw me over the edge, so
(40:39):
that through therapy it was like I hit emotional rock bottom.
I didn't know what I knew I couldn't take anymore.
I knew I couldn't live that way anymore. I was
not showing up as a mom the way I wanted to.
I was people pleasing. I was allowing shitty things to
happen to me. And it also helped me realize my
role in what had happened with a friend. How you know,
(41:01):
my mistake of saying okay, I won't tell anyone, okay
and allowing her to do these things and not holding
her accountable. That was on me, so taking ownership for
those things. And then it led into oh, this is
why I'm feeling this way, and I've been hiding from
this my entire life, and none of my family had
ever spoke to me about this, you know, Kelly, I
(41:21):
spent most of my life wondering if it actually happened. Yeah,
because I didn't, No one ever spoke to me about it.
There was a point where I was like, Okay, is
this something I made up in my head? And then
if I would drink, it would come out and I'd
be the girl crying because finally it's pouring out, and
then I'm embarrassed and I feel silly and stupid again.
So it was those all those things combined where I
(41:42):
was like no, and I knew drinking was giving me
alcohol anxiety. So I completely quit drinking for a year
when I, you know, really committed to this and I
decided that I had to do it. It was now
or never because I truly felt like there was more
meant for me. I was not meant to be living
the life I was living.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right, So now you have the Invisible Scars podcast. I
want to tell the listeners a little bit about that podcast,
and like I said, if you guys want to feel
hear the full story, which I think you did such
a great job of telling, I highly recommend going to
listen to that. It's the first two episodes. But what
else can we find on your podcast? What kind of
guests are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, I'm talking to experts in trauma. I'm talking to
you know, other trauma survivors. I am talking to other
people in mental health. I mean, it doesn't just revolve
around sexual abuse. There are people that have come on
who have experienced losing their husband, losing their brother, people
who have just experienced domestic abuse, who have experienced great loss.
(42:42):
It's people from all different walks of life, experts on
all these different topics, and it was so important to
me to give people a voice because I never had one,
and I just truly feel that, you know, I carried
so much shame for so many different parts of my trauma,
for the sexual abuse, for the abuse when I was
a kid with my mom, for the abandonment that I
(43:03):
had suffered. I mean, there's so many different forms of
trauma that we all carry and we all carry shame
from them, and I just truly believe that, like you know,
the shame dies when we talk about it. And I've
always wanted to help. I knew that I always wanted
to help in some capacity. It used to be that
I wanted to be a social worker and I was
going to change the system, and I wanted to do this,
(43:24):
but this just feels it's never felt more aligned. And
I want people to just feel seen to feel heard,
to feel like they have a platform to use their
voice and be inspired to hear how these other survivors
are sharing how they survived it, how they came out,
how they're living a really beautiful life because it is possible.
I mean, I came from nothing, Like I didn't have
(43:48):
a charmed life. I didn't have We lived in poverty,
you know, I didn't have these opportunities to go to
school and do all these things. But we can find
the strength to live a beautiful life whenever that looks
like for.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
You, what do you feel the biggest thing that you
recognize in your life? Now? What would the word that
comes to mind be just from coming or just from
telling your story and like coming out with your story,
what's the word that comes to mind that has been
the biggest change in your life.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Strength. I used to think I was the weakest person.
I used to see myself. I was like, I used
to see myself as like this incredibly weak and vulnerable person.
And I never seen how strong I was. I never
did until I started saying it out loud.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Wow, that's I mean, I'm like shocked because that is
the first thing I thought to tell you. You know,
like really.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah. I know it's funny because when my episodes first
came out, I was like, people are just going to
say I'm whining like that was just always you know,
like shut up and just deal with it. Yeah, everyone
has crap in their life, and I just felt so
weak and strength is my word.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
That just goes to show the narratives in our head.
I mean how crazy off they can be when we
haven't dealt with you know, what we've gone through.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yes, and I mean trauma tells us all sorts of lies,
but trauma tells us that it's not okay to be yourself,
that nobody will like you, and you know those are
you're not strong, Like it's just the lies trauma tells us.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Right, Yeah, if anyone is listening and they have either
been through a similar experience or they're just looking to
dive into their trauma, do you have any resources or
just any tools that you would say, as like the
first start, where do you go? What can you look
into if they're willing to maybe start navigating that road.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
You know, before I even started therapy, I picked up
trauma books. That was I didn't have the humility to
go to therapy. I was really embarrassed. But before I
even did that, trauma books were a big thing for me.
Trauma podcasts were a big thing for me. It's hard
to find a trauma podcast where your podcast where people
are willing to have those hard conversations, like I always
(45:58):
found that there was like a little bit sugarcoating around
it. It was kind of cute, right, And it's not cute.
It's ugly and it's hard, and you know, that's what
I found really helpful. Meditating has always been really foreign
to me and it's something that I lean on so
heavily now. And the way I started because I could
not sit still, I could not calm down my mind.
(46:20):
I started using the Superhuman app because it seems more
like a it's more like an active meditation and then
you can go into the deeper ones. But it really
changed my nervous system. It completely changed my nervous system.
So that was a really big resource for me. And
you know, moving my body was key and setting those
boundaries and learning Number one was learning about trauma and
(46:42):
what it does to your body, what it does to
your nervous system, why you're reacting to people the way
you are, why you're constantly hurt by things. Why you're
constantly reacting to your spouse or your children, or your
parents or your friends. Like learning about why was key,
and I think that's important for everybody.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, I love them that the name of your pop
cast as Invisible Scars, because one of the things you
talk about when you were telling your story was that
like people you still look at you and go, well,
you grew up with a silver spoon, right, And it's like,
how off is that statement? But that's how well we
hide things, and like that is such an epidemic in
our culture. I feel of just this social media world
(47:19):
that makes everything look perfect, Like we are so programmed
to present that way, and that could not have been
further from the truth in.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Your story, could not have been further from the truth.
And you know, I remember when people would say that
to me and be like, no, I wasn't like we
had salvation army hampers dropped up to us at Christmas, right,
And they'd be like, yeah, right, You're just no, Like
so it's just it really reminded me, especially when I
was doing this podcast, how I wanted to show up
so authentically and I had to stop pretending like everything
(47:50):
was perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That I had to stop pretending. That is crazy. We
have to stop ourselves too, We have to stop pretending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeslin,
thank you so much for being here. I can't tell
you how much this has impacted me the last two days,
just like prepping and listening to your story. I'm so
glad that you're telling it, and I think it's going
to help a ton of people. If people do want
to keep up with you, where else can they find you?
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah? You can find me on Instagram at Invisible Scars
Podcast and also I have an online clothing batiquet at
shop Doated, and we have a website as well, Invisible
Scars Podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Amazing. I'll put all of that in the description of
this podcast for you guys. Thank you so much again
for the vulnerability and just sharing your story. And you
guys go check out the Invisible Scars Podcast.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Thank you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
As a survivor of child sexual assault, of the nineteen
ninety nine child pornography case and Willow River, Jesselyn Beeterstadt
has shown immense strength in her healing journey. She spent
years working to overcome the trauma she faced, and one
thing that has helped her most on her journey to
building the extraordinary life she has today is speaking with
others to share stories of strength and resilience. Jesselyn aims
(00:30):
to bring the silence and stigma around surrounding trauma through
honest conversations on her podcast, Invisible Scars, and she's here
with us today to share her story. Jesselin, Hi, thank
you so much for being with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Oh, Kelly, thank you so much for having me honestly
listening to you say that brought tears to my eyes
because it's just so validating. I appreciate that so much.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, we thought we were talking a little bit before
the podcast, and you said, so much of this story
has been silenced within you for your whole entire life,
and I want to get into why you you've decided
to speak out now and do the work that you're
doing later. But obviously we need to give listeners a
little bit of background. I told you I've been listening
to your podcast where you do such a great job
(01:10):
of telling the story with your best friend, which I
think is just such a beautiful way to do it.
But yeah, I'm still a little shaken, if I'm being honest,
from listening to the story. And so just to just
to kind of give you guys listening, just a warning,
this is a tough story and it does involve child
sexual assault, So take that into consideration where you're listening
(01:32):
and when you're listening. But if you would do us
just such an honor to listen to the story, and
I would hope that you can tell it in a
way that works for you. So how would you like
to start?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, you know, like you said, it is a really
it's hard for people to absorb. It's hard to hear.
But at the same time, I just think it's so
important for people to listen because these are things that
are not talked about, you know, these are things that
people are so I lanced on for so many years
and honestly, Kelly, like since launching this. I had severe,
(02:06):
like emotional hangover after recording my year stuff right, Like
I just the night before we launched, I was like,
what am I doing? What business do I have? People
are not going to want to hear this, But the
amount of feedback of other survivors coming forward and saying
thank you so much, Like I've never told anybody, I've
never said a word about this. I've been living with this.
(02:27):
It's killing me. Thank you. I feel seen like it
is important. So those tough conversations, just the shame around
sexual assault, the shame around trauma, the shame around abuse
as survivors, that only goes away when we start sharing
our stories, you know, And I just think this it's pivotal,
especially in the world that we're living in today. You know,
(02:49):
there's so much darkness, but I've come out the other
side of it, and I'm so proud of where I
am and I want to share with other people. You know,
how I got there. It wasn't bright and shiny and perfect.
It was frick and dark, and it was hard. But
the work is worth it and it's an important story
to tell.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I completely agree, and I always feel like, you know,
this is the reason that twelve step groups work, right, Like,
we heal with each other and we heal with connection
and knowing that we're not alone. I truly believe that,
And so when I was listening to your story, I
was thinking, for one, it's amazing to me and it's
very obvious how much work you've done on your own
(03:27):
to be able to even verbalize these things that happened
or that you went through. But also what a gift
you're giving to anyone else who's really struggling with actually
speaking up, Because I know that's one of the main
responses our body has to trauma, right We just immediately
want to stuff it and go silent, and a lot
of us go into freeze mode. So being able to
verbalize it in the way that you do it just
(03:49):
shows such a mint strength. Like we said in the intro,
so let's give listeners a little bit of the backstory.
Before this case came into play in your life, it
wasn't like your life was just all peachy and keen either.
There was a lot going on at home. So can
you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, I'll take you guys back to the beginning. You know,
I had a mom who had me really really young.
She had substance abuse problems. She was never connected to me,
So there was a lot of trouble in our home.
There was a ton of you know, domestic abuse, there
was a ton of drug use. I was physically abused,
mentally abused. I was always really afraid of my mom.
(04:30):
I lived in a ton of fear my whole life.
So from a very young age, I was in fight
or flight constantly, where you know, I would be hiding
in closets or walking myself in my room while she'd
have parties and there'd be drugs and bikers in my house,
you know, Like I would wake up in the mornings
and there would be like a mirror with drugs on
it in the morning. You know. I always knew what
(04:50):
that was from a very young age. So when this
all kind of came to be, I had already gone
through a lot of trauma. I had already learned how
to read a room. My instincts were, my survival instincts
were incredibly polished, right, So I had to learn if
I was in danger all the time, if I was
walking into the living room or if I was getting
(05:12):
up in the morning. I was always trying to decide
if it was a safe place for me to be.
So looking back now after I've met those people, you know,
my spidy senses were going off. And I talk a
little bit about that in my story, but yeah, I
was introduced to them by my mom and my grandfather.
Both my mom and my grandfather had drug abuse problems,
(05:33):
alcohol abuse problems and were going down like a really
a really bad path, and they introduced us to them,
and it kind of all started to unravel and the
story kept going even after that, which we can get into.
But you know, I say in the in my podcast
that talking about my instincts, there was one moment, so
(05:55):
those my abusers would get me to come babysit at
nine years old. They had this baby, and they would
get me at nine to come and babysit, and that's
kind of how they how they got me there. But
there was one moment where I really wanted a chocolate bar,
and I told them that I didn't like chocolate, so
I wasn't going to have one. I was trying to
be really appeasing, which is what I was trained to do.
I just was there to do what they needed me
(06:17):
to do and not be seen and not be a problem.
So later, I remember I really wanted that chocolate bar,
and I went to the cupboard to get it, and
I stopped, and I looked at the roof and thought
to myself, what if they have cameras in here and
they can tell that I lied and I put it back.
Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's great, And we'll get into why that's so significant
in just a second. But when I was listening to
you tell your story, I thought to myself, at such
a young age, we as humans just know we have
just intuitions, and we're trained throughout our life to just
not pay attention to that, to not trust that, to
dismiss it for whatever reason. But I do feel like
our bodies, we can always trust our bodies, and if
(06:58):
we were taught to do that at such young age
or embrace that, God, what a gift that would be. Well,
we're taught the opposite. So it's crazy that you did.
You had those instincts.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I knew, you know, I knew, And I also, I mean,
I remember the night I met them, and I was
very very close with my grandfather, And this is actually
a piece of my story that has been the hardest
to recover from is that the knowing how he knew them.
And I will never forget the night I met them.
(07:28):
My grandfather was already there. It was very late at night.
My parents took us they'd left a party and said
we were going to see Papa. And we pulled up
to this trailer in this trailer park, and we walked
in and my grandfather was sitting at the table with
his arm on the table, looking straight ahead. And it
was very unusual for him to not fully embrace me
and be so happy to see me, and it was
(07:50):
very clear that it was a very serious situation, and
he would not look at me, and he would not
talk to me. And I knowing what I know now
and as time goes on, I do believe that there
was some sort of arrangement made that we were being
scoped out, that we were brought there to see if
we would be a good fit for these people. And
I do believe that he knew.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
The betrayal in that In and of itself, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
That was a tough one for me to get past.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. So when you talk
about them, we're talking about the two abusers, and they
were in a couple from what I'm understanding, and she
was very young as well.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
But yeah, they had seventeen when they got together. Wow,
and he was I think thirty six or thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Okay, they ended up having a child, and as you said,
they would bring you in as the babysitter, which, by
the way, you were really young to be doing as well.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, I was nine, and you know that something I've
had to deal with as i'm older, like holding some
of the people accountable that were in my life at
that time, saying, you know, who let this happen? Who
thought that this was okay? Because I mean we all know,
as like responsible adults, that's not okay, right.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Like, yeah, so when you would go over what would happen,
it was like you were babysitting, so these people were
not there, Like, can you tell us a little bit
about what the arrangement looked like?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, So you know where they lived at the time
was a little community called Willow River, and it was
about forty minutes out of town, and they would even
get me to come on school nights and say they
would just drive me to school in the morning, so
she would come in and pick me up and on
the way back out to her house, she would say
things to me like are you are you a light sleeper?
(09:36):
And because I'm babysitting, my immediate response was, oh, yes,
like if the baby wakes up, I will absolutely hear
her trying to be responsible. So then she would say
to me, well, our house is still loud, so I'm
just going to give you this pill that will help
you sleep. And it was one common theme between all
the victim was victims sorry, It was that she would
give them these little blue pills, and so I would
(09:56):
take the pills and that would be the last thing
I would remin and I have memories of when they'd
wear off and I'd wake up and they would be
dressing me or helping me walk or do whatever, and
then I wouldn't remember anything. And then the next thing
I would remember, I was in the lineup for school
(10:17):
at elementary school.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So you just were completely blacked out. Did you ever
find out what that was that they were giving them?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, if you google it, it's in the it's in
the news articles, but I can't remember offhand what it's called.
But every victim had the same story. They all, Yeah,
they all had the same pill that they were given.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So then you would just wake up completely without memory
of anything that had happened. And then they would just
drop you off at school.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, they would just drop me off at school, and
that's the next thing I'd remember, like how did I
get here? What happened? And you know, it started to
be really I'd question it. I was a little bit confused,
and I had a trusted adult in my life who
I was really close with, who I would go to
their place on the weekends because my mom's was really unsafe,
and I I had said to her, you know, they're
giving me these pills to help me sleep, but I
(11:04):
don't kind of remember anything. And I remember her saying
to me, like, oh my god, what like next time,
don't take them. So as an adult now, I'm like
that was a terrible response, but you know, at the time,
I trusted them, and I was so unhappy and scared
at home, and that's part of how they groomed me, right,
It was like, that's important to note too, is how
(11:27):
these people groom children and families. They don't just groom
the children, they're essentially grooming the parents as well. If
they're unaware of the situation.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You know what do you mean by that? Can you
say more?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, So the way that they would groom me was
that they would really play on my relationship with my mom.
And because Crystal the girl was so young, she would
say things like, my mom was awful too. I know
you have a hard time at home. I'm going to
try and get you out of the house and take
you shopping and you can come here anytime if you
need a break. Like for the first time, I felt
(12:00):
so safe and loved and seen and heard. Right, So
she really really played on that. And you know, talking
to some of the other victims of this, I mean
I have a belief my mom knew what was going on,
but other people when you talk about how they've groomed
their parents, you know, just telling them that they like
taking them on vacations or you know, offering help with
(12:22):
food and dropping off groceries and just like really making
them feel like they're trusted people in your life that
want to be there to help you. Okay, And they're
very good at it, right, Like that's their worse. Yeah,
they're very very good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Very convincing. Yeah, And I'm assuming it's like if you
don't have a good home life too. I mean you've
also talked about this, like you feeling this responsibility. Oh
I'm a light sleeper. You were already in that place
of trying to do adult things as a child like
that over responsibility and wanting to show up. So I'd
imagine one you weren't asking for a lot of help,
(12:55):
but two, really, where would you ask for help from?
You didn't have that as a resource. It was like
you could call home and be like, what do I
do here? Anything like that. There was no safe space.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
There was no safe space. And you know, after I
had spoken to my trusted adult and she told me
never to take it again, that really rang true to me.
And the last time that you know, this had gone
on for quite a while, probably a year or more
of me going there and not remembering anything, and you know,
the last time it ever happened, that voice was in
(13:27):
my head. And they picked me up and told my
parents that they wanted to meet a babysit and offered
my three year old brother to come as well, which
he did often, And when we got back out to
their trailer, they said, we know you've been having a
hard time at home, so we're actually not going out.
(13:47):
We just wanted to get you guys away from your
house so we could have some time together. And you know,
it was Kelly like they did a good fricking job.
Like they took us through their neighborhood and they introduced
us to their neighbors, and they ordered pizza and we
played outside as a family and played board games and
watched a movie like those were things we didn't have
at home. So it felt so like I remember thinking,
(14:09):
I wish I lived here. Yeah, I wish these were
my parents, right, So that just goes to show how
well they did groom me.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, And of course it would like lower your defenses
in general, because you're having so much fun. You're getting
to do things you didn't ever get to do. That's
so exciting as a kid. Yeah, I thought they were
so cool.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And because she was so young too, right, Like, yeah,
she was only nineteen at that time, so I felt
just like she was so cool. And there were odd
rules in their house, but I kind of looked past it. Right.
So there was a room we weren't a let to
go in, and that was his office, and I was
always really curious of what was in there, but it
was very clear that you know, you don't go in there,
(14:49):
which turned out to be that's world like the closed
circuit TVs and recording devices were because that entire trailer
was outfitted in video.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, so talk us through that last night because I
know that that was I believe in your story that
I heard it was the last night that you were there.
But so they take you on this trip that are
you know they're there this time. They're making you guys
do all these things or having you guys do all
these things that you love, that you drop your defenses,
you're having fun, your younger brother is with you. Than
(15:21):
what happened.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So the night goes on and her husband, Jim, is
going to go to bed, so he leaves and it's
just the three of us and we're on the couch
in the living room watching Ace Venture a Pet Detective,
and she kind of pulls me aside to the table
and wants to have conversations like my mom would never
have with me, like about boys or getting your period
(15:44):
or whatever, like just trying to really make me feel
like she she hears me. And so finally she's like,
you know, I'm going to give you that pill again.
Tonight because it's there's things going on with a washer
or something. And so she gave me two this time
instead of one, and I put them in my napkin
from my pizza and I didn't take them, and I
(16:06):
knew I had that voice in my head from my
trusted adult, you know, telling me like, don't take them
next time. So I was like, okay, I'm not going
to take them. So I put them in. I put
them in my napkin and threw my napkin out in
the garbage in the bathroom, and I told her, you know,
I'm tired and I'm going to lay down on the
couch is where we normally slept. And she said to me,
(16:28):
I'm going to let your brother keep watching this, so
I'm going to put you in bed with Jim. And
I said no, and she said, oh, don't worry. He
sleeps naked, but he he's a heavy sleeper. He won't
even know you're there. And I remember being so scared,
like I couldn't feel my legs. She walked me down
the hallway and put me in bed with him, and
(16:48):
I remember everything.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you were nine.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I was nine, Yeah, yeah. And it didn't take him
long to start trying to touch me, and I'd roll away,
pretend I was sleeping. And this went on for a while,
and he tried very aggressively, and then he kind of
started to figure out that I wasn't complying, like I
was a little bit fighting too hard. And I remember
(17:12):
him getting up and walking away, and he had no
clothes on, and I was so scared. I just laid
there and I could hear them talking, and she came
into the bedroom and sat on the end of the bed,
and she was mad. She was very angry with me
and asked me why didn't take the pills. She got
very angry and a defensive and said that he only
(17:34):
did that to me to make sure I would never
touch his daughter inappropriately. That I passed the test.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So just complete gas lighting completely. And your response. I
thought this was so fascinating too, because it goes back
to that overresponsibility, because you were so responsible as a child,
and then you thought, okay, well, good at past the test.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah. I literally thought, okay, thank goodness, I did it. Okay,
I'm responsible, you know. Yeah. So she was mad, and
it's a very small trailer, so she said to me,
you know, I'm going to put you back in bed
on the couch, like this is enough. She's mad, and
I remember thinking I'm gonna have to walk past him,
like I am terrified. I'm going to have to walk
past him. And he was nowhere to be found. And
(18:26):
so she put me on the couch and I laid
there and I couldn't go to sleep, and I could
hear him coming back down the hallway after a while,
and my brother was on the couch across from me,
and I knew that I had to pretend I was sleeping,
and I completely froze, and he came up beside me
and put his hands on my shoulders and like left
(18:49):
them there. It felt like forever. It was probably like
ten or fifteen seconds, but just to see if i'd move.
It was like this game of chicken, right, And I
held my breath and I did not move, And then
he walked away and I watched him pick up my
brother and take him down the hallway. And that was
the hardest moment of my life. It was awful. It's
something I've had to work on for like twenty seven
(19:11):
years and therapy. So I got up and I was panicked,
and I thought I need help, and I almost ran
outside of the trailer, and I remembered I had just
met the neighbors and I went to go. I was like,
I don't even have time to put my shoes on,
Like I just have to go, and something stopped me.
And I was like, what if they're in on it
(19:32):
and they kill me? And so I didn't go, and
then I kept looking around, looking around. There's no phone.
And it was the first time that I realized there
was no phone out there. And all those times I
had Babi said I didn't know because I was drugged,
I was asleep, and it was the first time I
realized I had no phone and no options and there
was nothing I could do besides go get back on
(19:53):
the couch and try and go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And so you did. Yeah, it was the.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Hardest thing to overcome was knowing that I couldn't protect
my brother because I always did right like I from
my mom and everything at home. I always protected him.
So that was a really hard one for me to
let go. But you know, it's important to know that
like these horrible things that you think that are going
to eat you alive. What I've learned through therapy is
(20:25):
that I actually saved our lives that night, because if
I had done anything other than what I did, they
would have killed us. They were very dangerous people, and
we've learned through trial and what they wrote in their journals,
you know how dangerous it really was that we were there,
And I've learned that to reframe it as I couldn't
stalk what happened to him, But I did save our lives.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Right, which ultimately was a better gift obviously. But I
obviously understand too. I'm an older sister as well, so
I understand that, like the big protective sister, yeah, and
how that would torture you. But again also not your
job as a child as well. You know, I just
because even when I was listening and I'm just listening
to it again, it's like I hear the things that
(21:09):
you were even asking of yourself as a child, like
thinking that was your job, you know, like that just
breaks my heart in general, hearing that because none of
that was your job. Well, so then after that happens,
how did it? And I think that was the last
time you guys were over there, thankfully, right, And so
what ended up happening to get these people caught?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You know, I actually don't know. From what I've read,
the police have been been trying to build a case
on them for a long time. From what I've read
in the media, he had a very long record, I
mean very violent. There was other suspicions of sexual abuse
on children before in a different province in Canada, and
(21:53):
I think that they had been building a case for
a long time. So I never had to go back there.
I did have to see them a couple times after
that through my grandfather, unfortunately, but we were never alone again.
And then the next time it came to be it
was my birthday and I was picked up from school,
which was very odd, and my mom said, we're going
(22:14):
to the police station. They want to ask you some
questions about him and Crystal. And I've never been so
scared in my.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Life, really, because you immediately knew why.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I knew why, And then I like, as a child too,
it's hard to understand if you were in trouble or
if they're in trouble, and it's embarrassing to talk about
those things, right like, especially if you don't have parents
that have made you comfortable talking about your body or
things that are safe and unsafe. We never had those conversations,
so it felt it felt like I was in trouble.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Right, Isn't that The thing that most I believe that
most sexual assault survivors say is like, you don't know
what part of it was you or I know a
lot of people have struggled with like your body's reaction
and all of these just takeing on the guilt feelings
of something that's completely not your fault, but not knowing
how to navigate that part of it.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
So true, And you know, like talking to other survivors
who have come on my podcast, you know, the key
and other experts on this, the key to trauma survivors
having a successful life later is early intervention with connection
and therapy and validation. And I had none of those
(23:26):
things right, So, and I didn't have any support system.
So the terror inside of me, it was so elevated
because I thought my mom would be mad at me.
I thought the police were going to be mad at me.
I didn't know if I was going to be put
in jail. Like those irrational thoughts just spiral.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, well, and the hard thing about your story, and
I mean we've kind of already touched on this, but again,
not having that safe space. So even once they're arrested,
and I believe you tell the story to the police,
I'm assuming they get put in jail. All of that,
I'm sure was a longer process than we're making it
sound like. But but then it's like you go back
home and you still have a pretty broken relationship with
(24:06):
your mom, right she was an addict? And did you
guys get taken away? Is that what happened next?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
We did? You know? Before we even went to trial,
I had been taken away from my mom and went
to go live with my aunt, is where I always
wanted to be, and you know, my mom didn't like that,
so we ended up in foster care. So I came
home from school one day, happy, finally feeling really at peace,
and there was a strange car in my driveway at
(24:35):
my aunt's house. And so I walked up and it
was Social Services and everything I owned was in a
black garbage bag and there was nothing I could do,
and my uncle was standing there and he was like,
I'm so sorry, Jess, like there's nothing I can do.
And I was put in a car and dropped off
at a stranger's house. So we were going through all
(24:56):
of that and you know, before that even happened, I
actually made the choice to leave my mom's house. That
was my choice. I finally had enough. And now I
can look back and say, holy frick, how brave I
was to stand up to her, because I was really scared. Right,
So one night I just said, I'm not coming home.
And you know, the last thing my mom ever said
to me was if you ever stepped foot on my
(25:18):
doorstep again, I'll fucking kill you. And I was eleven,
and I was just like, I'm done. So I left
my mom's house with nothing. She wouldn't let me have
any of my stuff. And then that day when social
Services showed up, the few things I did have were
in a black garbage bag and I was dropped off
somewhere really strange. So it was just constant. You know,
(25:39):
I had no safe space, I had no peace. I'd
never experienced peace, you know, so it was really difficult.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Well, I hope that when you're telling the story, you
can look at yourself the way that I look at
you hearing this story, and just the immense amount of
survival skills and strength that that takes. I mean as
a child specifically, and to me, the biggest part of
that is the people who were supposed to protect you
and love you the most betrayed you and just kind
(26:10):
of grappling with that. And so I love that you're
telling your story now and I want to shift into
the positive parts of that. Also, if you guys want
to hear more about Jesslyn's story, I'll put a link
to her podcast in the description of this podcast. But
with that said, I know you get through these huge,
huge traumas and like I said, what I mean, immense
strength you showed and the survival and all of that,
(26:33):
But I know the journey doesn't stop there. And I
know that in listening to even just the betrayal that
we've discussed here, I would imagine relationships in general and
just trusting people and navigating that as an adult would
be very, very difficult. So can you talk a little
bit about what that journey has been like for you,
because I don't want to, you know, dismiss the fact
(26:56):
that this is a lifelong journey, and I know anyone
listening like there should be no shame in the fact
that it's not like the trauma ends and then you're
just fine. So can you tell the listeners a little
bit about just what it's like to navigate. You know,
I know you're married, now you have kids of your own,
like family dynamics, relationships, love, friendships, what does that look
(27:18):
like for you?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
You know, for many years it was hard. You would
think I would be very untrusting, but I found myself
to be the complete opposite because I was creating that
loving connection that I never had as a child. So
I trusted everybody too quickly because I just really needed love.
I really needed that affection and which got me into
(27:41):
you know, bad situations with people which I ended up
putting myself in harmful situations. I made a ton of
mistakes as an unhealed person, I hurt people, and you know,
it's it's been such a journey and today Jesselyn is
so different and I think that looking back, what has
changed me number one the most is sharing my story.
(28:03):
So when you say to me, I hope that you
see yourself the way I do as such a strong person.
You know, a few years ago, I would have been
so uncomfortable and been like Kelly, shut up like that.
I don't relate to that, like no thank you, no
thank you. Like it would have been very very rejected
by me, and through me actually saying it out loud
and actually talking about it, I do feel that way
(28:24):
about myself. And it's taken a while because that also
felt incredibly conceited and narcissistic to me, like it just
didn't come naturally for me to give myself praise for
those things, right. So that's been a journey. Only in
the last like year and a half, through me really
trying to heal from these things, have I been able
(28:44):
to set healthy boundaries with people in my life. I
was very much allowing people to treat me any way
they wanted, and I would just be quiet about it
because I didn't want to cause problems, right. And it's interesting,
like you hear all the time that when you start healing,
(29:04):
you go through this great season of loss, and I
don't think it's talked about enough. And you know, there's
certain people in your life who are only going to
love and appreciate that broken version of you because that
fits for them, right, right, And you know, I've had
a lot of loss in the last year through all
of this, and I am okay with that. I am
(29:29):
okay with where I am now, and just appreciating that
people were in my life for the reasons they were
in it, and also knowing that the people that didn't
protect me, they did the best they could with what
they had, right with what they could have, what they
had for themselves, the resources, the self respect they had
for whatever trauma they had that they weren't healed from.
(29:50):
And I think like getting to a point of being
able to accept that is so so important. That's where
the healing comes in, right, Like, it's that's where the
healing from these things is important. And I am not
responsible for what happened to me, but I am responsible
for my own life now and how I treat people
and how I show up for my family and myself.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Was there a part of you that wanted to I
know you mentioned in your podcast you had these amazing
foster parents for a minute, and it's a really difficult
thing for you now to have a relationship with them
just because it brings you back to that time, which
makes total sense to me. So is there anyone from
that time that you do have relationships with? And what
is what are your family relationships like? Are you still
(30:30):
in touch with your brother or your mom or anyone?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
I'm not you know, my brother and I got separated
in foster care and we have not seen each other since.
It's really painful. You know, I had a lot of
family members who would say you abandoned him, and he
doesn't understand. But what they're not understanding was I was ten,
and you know it wasn't my responsibility and the guilt
(30:57):
I carried for what happened to him, I couldn't face
him for so many years. And Mom is just a
really you know, she has her own demons and I
no longer hate her, but we will never have a relationship.
She is just a really dangerous person. And I never
knew my real dad, my grandfather, who I was very
(31:19):
close with prior to this. He passed away about five
or six years ago, but we didn't have a relationship either.
He's just not a good person. And you know, my
aunt who I lived with her, her children became my
brothers and they are my brothers to this day and
I love them so much and we are very very close.
But really that's it.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, just too traumatic, too.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Traumatic, and a long line of really toxic behaviors and
trauma that's not healed, and they have to figure out
their own stuff, Like when you break those cycles. You
have to break those cycles, you know, And no one
actually talks about the humility it takes and the strength
that takes to be able to be the cycle breaker
(32:02):
and figure out how to deal with your emotions and
you know, heal your inner child, and it takes a
lot of work. And when you come out the other side,
you're not the same person and they may not like
who you are. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Well, we mentioned you're married as well, so what is
that like? And you know, and I guess I have
a couple questions with that. I think that a lot
of times when we come from toxic family dynamics, we
end up repeating those patterns as adults. You know, Like,
like you mentioned, maybe you had some relationships that you
couldn't you weren't available to set boundaries in because that's
(32:38):
never what you were taught as a kid, So you
just repeat that cycle. You have toxic people in your life.
Did you feel like that was something you brought into
your romantic relationships for a long time? How did that
go meeting your husband? And does that still come up
within y'all's relationship at this point?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Oh God, yes to all of the above. Honestly, I was.
I had pushed it aside so much when I had
met my husband that he didn't even know. Like when
we finally talked about it, he was completely shocked because
I had hit it so well, and he was you know,
over the course of our fifteen years together, he would
(33:13):
we would get in these major fights because I would
be like, how do you not know what happened to me?
Like you're triggering me right now and you're getting mad
at me, and he'd be like, but jessln you hide
it so well, like I forget, Like I will be
completely fine living my life and then something will trigger
me and that's it. I'm a completely unhinged person, right,
So that was really really difficult, and we would have
(33:34):
these explosive fights. I mean, no one, neither one of
us would know how to communicate properly, especially when I
have all this unhealed trauma. And you know, it's interesting,
like thinking about intimate relationships and what that's like for
a sexual assault, a sexual abuse survivor. You know, there
is things that people don't understand that you know, you
(33:54):
can have physical pain that just happens immediately and you
even him kissing me, I would have physical pain through
my body, and it's something I would have to really
work through, and it's something that we had to work
through together, and it shows up in our relationship today
in different ways, definitely not the same. You know, when
I started to really when I said to him, I'm
(34:17):
you're in or you're out. I have to deal with this,
and I think it's important for people to hear too.
You know a lot of couples who have one partner
who has been through something like this, the other partner
is usually very afraid for them to start healing. And
his fear was he would lose me, I wouldn't be
(34:38):
the same person, or I wouldn't like him anymore, or
I would leave him behind, or it wasn't a good time,
Like everyone always thinks that there has to be a
good time to do this, But the time to do
it is when you feel ready, because no one can
tell you when you're ready. But you know, that was
a pivotal moment in our relationship was I sat him
down in the kitchen and I was like, I know
you're afraid for me to do this, but you have
(34:59):
no choice, like you're in or you're out, but I'm
doing it. And he was fantastic, Like, yeah, so he
had started therapy as well to try and help navigate
his emotions through it, because you know what also people
don't talk about in this is when you're going through it,
your partner's needs are really pushed aside, and he needed
help with that as well. And I really really believe
(35:22):
that when you're in a relationship and you're trying to
process something so traumatic, it's a two person job. It
is both of you because you need each other and
you can't do it on your own.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
If you had to give anyone in a relationship advice
that's going through this, like, how would you tell us,
as friends or loved ones of someone trying to heal
from trauma? What's the best way to support someone through that?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Oh gosh, honestly, don't try and fix it, don't try
to give advice because we've probably thought of everything, and
just let them go through their emotions. I think the
biggest thing is to not take any offense to the
things that they do or say, like what comes out
of their mouth when they're really in those low moments.
(36:11):
You know, Like Kelly, there were moments when I was
in the thick of this where I could not get
out of bed. I was launching my brand new store online.
It was supposed to be the happiest time of my life.
And I would literally like get up, turn a lamp on,
make some posts, and then lay back down like I
had nothing to give. And he would come in and
(36:32):
he would hold me, and I would cry, and then
there be moments where the anger would just freaking spew
out of me and he's in my line of fire,
and I would say things I didn't mean and he
would just hug me and hold me and say, I
know you don't mean that. I'm here, say whatever you
need to say. And I think that that was like
the key for me, was allowing me to say whatever
(36:53):
I needed to say in those moments and just be
there and not try and fix it, because when he
would come at me and say, well, maybe try this,
or maybe have you thought of this, like, yes, I've
thought of it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Like I've been thinking of it since I'm not I know,
like I'm hyper vigilant, I know all the things.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah. Yeah, it's just the patience.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, and I hear everything you just said. I'm like, okay,
well you were in freeze response, you were in fight response,
Like maybe educating yourself on traumatic responses in general would
be helpful because all of those things that you just
said are just your body's reaction to like letting go
of that.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ooh, I love that you said that, because that is key.
Like I really took the time to educate myself on
and I found it fascinating because then it was also like,
oh my god, this is why I'm doing this, Like
I don't feel it's such a crazy person, Like I
don't feel like such a leper anymore. Like this is amazing,
and you know, as trauma survivors too, it's really hard
(37:48):
for me. Anyways, it was very hard for me to
focus on school, to read a book, to remember what
I read. And I found that once I was reading
about myself and learning about myself, that's when it became
I was able to absorb it. And it's been pivotal.
I think as a trauma survivor, that would be my advice.
Educate yourself on your body's response is what you're going through,
(38:09):
because it's going to make you feel so normal, so
seen and ready.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right, because if you don't know, it does feel crazy,
like especially as it's releasing, I can relate so much.
My experiences were obviously different, but as trauma has been
releasing from my body throughout the years, it's like you
literally feel insane or you're like, why am I so lazy? Like,
all of a sudden, I cannot function. I have no drive.
(38:34):
And if you're anything like me, which I assume you
are based off of the way you were brought up,
but like you're an overachiever and all of the you're
very driven, you know, and so to not be able
to function is like, what is wrong with me?
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Oh? The lazy word? Like that is imprinted in my head,
Like I would constantly be like, why am I so lazy?
And I think that is just the key to educate yourself.
And you know what else I did for me too,
was as someone who's and through something. You know, in
those unhealed years, I was not the best version of myself.
I was not a great person. I was hurting people
(39:08):
I loved, I was saying things I didn't mean. I
was making huge mistakes. And now that I've learned a
little bit about it, I've been able to forgive myself.
And I think that that is a really big piece
as well, is just giving yourself grace. You can still
hold yourself accountable for those things, but also just forgive
yourself because it's really really vital.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah. Well, our word this month on the podcast is cobwebs,
which your story in so many ways hits that it's
just like what's lurking behind the cobwebs in the shadows.
And there was a moment in the podcast that I
listened to where you said you spent most of your
life hiding from this story and just pretending like everything
was okay. So what was the moment that she's decided
okay and no more hiding and now I'm ready to talk.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know, I had a really bad experience with a
friend and it really triggered me in a way that
I was not fully understanding in the moment. You know,
I felt so hurt and so betrayed and it threw
me over the edge and I ended up in therapy
because of that, and through therapy I learned why it
(40:16):
triggered me. So, first of all, someone had done something
to me and then asked me to keep it a secret.
So there's trigger number one where it takes me back
to when I was a kid and when they were
doing these horrible things to me and said, you can
never tell anyone. We'll kill your family, we'll kill you,
we'll kill your brother. You know, it was me being
silenced again, so that threw me over the edge, so
(40:39):
that through therapy it was like I hit emotional rock bottom.
I didn't know what I knew I couldn't take anymore.
I knew I couldn't live that way anymore. I was
not showing up as a mom the way I wanted to.
I was people pleasing. I was allowing shitty things to
happen to me. And it also helped me realize my
role in what had happened with a friend. How you know,
(41:01):
my mistake of saying okay, I won't tell anyone, okay
and allowing her to do these things and not holding
her accountable. That was on me, so taking ownership for
those things. And then it led into oh, this is
why I'm feeling this way, and I've been hiding from
this my entire life, and none of my family had
ever spoke to me about this, you know, Kelly, I
(41:21):
spent most of my life wondering if it actually happened. Yeah,
because I didn't, No one ever spoke to me about it.
There was a point where I was like, Okay, is
this something I made up in my head? And then
if I would drink, it would come out and I'd
be the girl crying because finally it's pouring out, and
then I'm embarrassed and I feel silly and stupid again.
So it was those all those things combined where I
(41:42):
was like no, and I knew drinking was giving me
alcohol anxiety. So I completely quit drinking for a year
when I, you know, really committed to this and I
decided that I had to do it. It was now
or never because I truly felt like there was more
meant for me. I was not meant to be living
the life I was living.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right, So now you have the Invisible Scars podcast. I
want to tell the listeners a little bit about that podcast,
and like I said, if you guys want to feel
hear the full story, which I think you did such
a great job of telling, I highly recommend going to
listen to that. It's the first two episodes. But what
else can we find on your podcast? What kind of
guests are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, I'm talking to experts in trauma. I'm talking to
you know, other trauma survivors. I am talking to other
people in mental health. I mean, it doesn't just revolve
around sexual abuse. There are people that have come on
who have experienced losing their husband, losing their brother, people
who have just experienced domestic abuse, who have experienced great loss.
(42:42):
It's people from all different walks of life, experts on
all these different topics, and it was so important to
me to give people a voice because I never had one,
and I just truly feel that, you know, I carried
so much shame for so many different parts of my trauma,
for the sexual abuse, for the abuse when I was
a kid with my mom, for the abandonment that I
(43:03):
had suffered. I mean, there's so many different forms of
trauma that we all carry and we all carry shame
from them, and I just truly believe that, like you know,
the shame dies when we talk about it. And I've
always wanted to help. I knew that I always wanted
to help in some capacity. It used to be that
I wanted to be a social worker and I was
going to change the system, and I wanted to do this,
(43:24):
but this just feels it's never felt more aligned. And
I want people to just feel seen to feel heard,
to feel like they have a platform to use their
voice and be inspired to hear how these other survivors
are sharing how they survived it, how they came out,
how they're living a really beautiful life because it is possible.
I mean, I came from nothing, Like I didn't have
(43:48):
a charmed life. I didn't have We lived in poverty,
you know, I didn't have these opportunities to go to
school and do all these things. But we can find
the strength to live a beautiful life whenever that looks
like for.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
You, what do you feel the biggest thing that you
recognize in your life? Now? What would the word that
comes to mind be just from coming or just from
telling your story and like coming out with your story,
what's the word that comes to mind that has been
the biggest change in your life.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Strength. I used to think I was the weakest person.
I used to see myself. I was like, I used
to see myself as like this incredibly weak and vulnerable person.
And I never seen how strong I was. I never
did until I started saying it out loud.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Wow, that's I mean, I'm like shocked because that is
the first thing I thought to tell you. You know,
like really.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah. I know it's funny because when my episodes first
came out, I was like, people are just going to
say I'm whining like that was just always you know,
like shut up and just deal with it. Yeah, everyone
has crap in their life, and I just felt so
weak and strength is my word.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
That just goes to show the narratives in our head.
I mean how crazy off they can be when we
haven't dealt with you know, what we've gone through.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yes, and I mean trauma tells us all sorts of lies,
but trauma tells us that it's not okay to be yourself,
that nobody will like you, and you know those are
you're not strong, Like it's just the lies trauma tells us.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Right, Yeah, if anyone is listening and they have either
been through a similar experience or they're just looking to
dive into their trauma, do you have any resources or
just any tools that you would say, as like the
first start, where do you go? What can you look
into if they're willing to maybe start navigating that road.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
You know, before I even started therapy, I picked up
trauma books. That was I didn't have the humility to
go to therapy. I was really embarrassed. But before I
even did that, trauma books were a big thing for me.
Trauma podcasts were a big thing for me. It's hard
to find a trauma podcast where your podcast where people
are willing to have those hard conversations, like I always
(45:58):
found that there was like a little bit sugarcoating around
it. It was kind of cute, right, And it's not cute.
It's ugly and it's hard, and you know, that's what
I found really helpful. Meditating has always been really foreign
to me and it's something that I lean on so
heavily now. And the way I started because I could
not sit still, I could not calm down my mind.
(46:20):
I started using the Superhuman app because it seems more
like a it's more like an active meditation and then
you can go into the deeper ones. But it really
changed my nervous system. It completely changed my nervous system.
So that was a really big resource for me. And
you know, moving my body was key and setting those
boundaries and learning Number one was learning about trauma and
(46:42):
what it does to your body, what it does to
your nervous system, why you're reacting to people the way
you are, why you're constantly hurt by things. Why you're
constantly reacting to your spouse or your children, or your
parents or your friends. Like learning about why was key,
and I think that's important for everybody.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, I love them that the name of your pop
cast as Invisible Scars, because one of the things you
talk about when you were telling your story was that
like people you still look at you and go, well,
you grew up with a silver spoon, right, And it's like,
how off is that statement? But that's how well we
hide things, and like that is such an epidemic in
our culture. I feel of just this social media world
(47:19):
that makes everything look perfect, Like we are so programmed
to present that way, and that could not have been
further from the truth in.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Your story, could not have been further from the truth.
And you know, I remember when people would say that
to me and be like, no, I wasn't like we
had salvation army hampers dropped up to us at Christmas, right,
And they'd be like, yeah, right, You're just no, Like
so it's just it really reminded me, especially when I
was doing this podcast, how I wanted to show up
so authentically and I had to stop pretending like everything
(47:50):
was perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That I had to stop pretending. That is crazy. We
have to stop ourselves too, We have to stop pretending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeslin,
thank you so much for being here. I can't tell
you how much this has impacted me the last two days,
just like prepping and listening to your story. I'm so
glad that you're telling it, and I think it's going
to help a ton of people. If people do want
to keep up with you, where else can they find you?
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah? You can find me on Instagram at Invisible Scars
Podcast and also I have an online clothing batiquet at
shop Doated, and we have a website as well, Invisible
Scars Podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Amazing. I'll put all of that in the description of
this podcast for you guys. Thank you so much again
for the vulnerability and just sharing your story. And you
guys go check out the Invisible Scars Podcast.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Thank you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Kelly Henderson
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