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May 15, 2024 45 mins

Kelly welcomes self leadership expert, Shauna VanBogart, to discuss the importance of remembering who you are. They discuss the difference between "remembering who you" are and "finding yourself." Shauna explains how she uses a person's photograph to read their energy and intuitively know where they are blocked or blocking themselves from fully stepping into their true potential. They also discuss the difference between male and female intuition and the importance of utilizing both your masculine and feminine energy in life. 


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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Shawna Van Bogart is here with us today. She is
a self leadership expert with an intuition edge, which intuitive edge,
which I love. I loved tying them both together and
I wanted to tell the listeners just a full disclosure
about what happened yesterday because they know me and they
will appreciate this because I think it will give them
insight into the work that you do. But Shauna and

(00:30):
I were supposed to record yesterday and I was just
having one of those impath days, like I have been
going through a little bit of a release of some sort.
And for all my highly sensitive people who listen to
this podcast, you know that sometimes when you're in it,
it just like takes you out. And thankfully Shauna was
a person that I've felt comfortable enough, not even knowing,

(00:51):
but knowing what you do and kind of how you're
wired based on your website, I just thought you might understand,
So tell me what happened when I reached out to
you where you were.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Like, I get it, girl, I could definitely get this.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
I was I knew exactly where you were at. We
had already done the photo reads, so honestly, I wouldn't
be surprised if it was a little bit tied together. Really, yeah,
because a lot of times when I do those reads
for women later, like two weeks later, they're like, I
don't know what happened, but I've been so emotional, and
I'm like, well, you're probably releasing. I just think the

(01:24):
power of being seen, oh yeah, on levels that like
other people don't typically see that inner world is really powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, as you said that, my eyes started twitching, So
I think that you might be right. I've been having
this weird eye twitch, which I've learned in somatic therapy
is typically when emotions are ready to come out and
they're not quite releasing fully. So yeah, something you must
be saying to me is definitely resonating with my soul
for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Well, we can't hide from it anymore if we get
called out on something, or we're yeah, like called out
in a good way, in a bad way, not bad
or whatever, you know, and so once something comes to
the surface, we kind of have to deal with it
and then things get old.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about the photo rat
in a second, because I told you before the podcast
I find this skill set of yours so fascinating. But first,
just will you tell the listeners what is a self
leadership expert?

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:22):
So, I have been in the field of working with
people for over fifteen years and this is a term
that exists. I did not make it up, but it
is the best term that I have found presently to
capture what I do, and that's really to help people
have the best relationship they can have with themselves, because
I believe that to be kind of the core facet
of performance. And so I work with women that are

(02:45):
high performers, high achievers in various different careers, usually CEOs,
some form of leader, and they very much understand in
value in inside out approach to getting results in their life.
So I'm kind of the person who gets their inside
world fine tuned for those next levels.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
What do you mean an inside out approach.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Crafting and honing your inner world, your attitudes, your beliefs,
your energy systems, you know, operating from your intuition and
kind of like the more masculine energies which are drive
and determination, anything having to do with limiting beliefs, healing
anything that happens on the inside, because we know that

(03:27):
our you know, subconscious system is driving most of our
decision making and our actions. And we pride the mind
and the power power of thinking, but the reality is
we have this really sophisticated subconscious system that really tries
to protect us, and unfortunately, protecting us oftentimes means stifling, minimizing,
not allowing ourselves to be in our desire, chasing our goals.

(03:50):
So I'm really working with women on this mind but
also the mind below the neck, which is all of
it that happens on the inside.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I'll also get into that a little bit because
I then we're going to talk a little bit about
the feminine energy. But what I want to know about
what happened in your life because you mentioned to me
that you used to do image consulting, similar to some
of the stuff that I do. So what was it
when you were working in that world that kind of
led you into this knowing that people needed to reconnect

(04:19):
with themselves.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Well, I loved knowing and seeing how we could use
these built in tools to get things, Like from a
really young age, I was always observing how you know,
if you wore this, you know, you'd be more attractive
or if you had this body language or this communication style.
So that interest was always innate. And then when I
discovered image consulting as a career, I was very I

(04:44):
was like twenty one twenty two. I was like, this
is amazing, and this is the perfect place for my
skill sets. And I kept bumping up against the dynamic
of humans, which is, okay, we can do everything to
change the exterior. But I found categories of people, one
where my clients would take the external results and they

(05:05):
would stick, and then the other group of people where
we could change everything, but they still looked in the
mirror and they couldn't integrate, and it would just break
my heart because they couldn't see what I saw, which
was like, it's not about you know, the trendy close.
It was that we just spent all this investment perfecting
a look, in a style and an image that was

(05:27):
for you uniquely, and they just couldn't step into it.
And so for me, I just couldn't explore, like, what
is that about what's going on underneath there that would
make a woman be able to shift into a version
of herself that she feels lit up when she sees
herself in the mirror and then this other category. So
that just kind of like took me deeper, like quite

(05:48):
literally down to the subconscious system where I did hypnotherapy
certifications and all of that and brought me here. So
it just was a curiosity of like what is underneath
all of that?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, I identify with that so much, so many times
because I only work with men now, which is kind
of an interesting skill set as well, and so many
times people are asking me like, do men really even
need that much? And I'm like, no, they need so
much you would be so surprised. But what I've realized
as I've gotten older and kind of getting more clarity

(06:19):
on the exact job that I do, a lot of
what I bring is focus more on the internal beauty
stuff with them and like the comfort level, helping them
see themselves in the way that they feel their best
to walk onto these big stages, and so much of
it is an inside job. You're so right, Like, obviously
we do the outside thing, but you're not going to

(06:41):
be able to experience it in its full capacity unless
you're dialed in on the inside.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean it's it's I hate to be like
it's a vibe, but it is no totally. You can
look great, but there's something that emanates off someone when
they're really embodied in their confidence. It's not an exterior
confidence because they they look great. I mean, this was
something that I kind of had to like cross my
own bridge. I had a lot of confidence from a

(07:08):
young age, but my self esteem, which is different than confidence,
was not always where it is now. And so, you know,
people were always surprised to find out that I had
all this inner turmoil that I had to deal with
because I was so confident. And I find like a
lot of the women that I work with, these like
incredibly high performing, talented women, they have a tremendous amount
of confidence, but inside there's not this alignment with that.

(07:34):
That's I guess a pure flow of what I kind
of feel it and sense it has energy, and so
it just kind of makes everything unnecessarily harder for themselves
because they can't see how brilliant they are because their
inner world is in knots.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Wait, what is the difference between confidence and self esteem?
I would have never thought those were separate.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah, confidence is definitely more of an external thing. You
can use tools and resources to step into confidence a
lot easier than you can self esteem. Self esteem is
definitely an inside game, I would I would, I would
say that it's very similar to like self worthiness. There's
a lot of confident people walking around that don't feel worthy.
So once an exterior game. You can use resources and

(08:16):
tools to increase confidence. You can use tactics, you can
use you know again, body language, image, all of those
things to appear confident, and then self esteem is definitely
more on the inside. But how do you feel about
yourself afterwards during before you perform?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh my god, that just clicked, because that's the thing.
Like if you think about during COVID times, a lot
of our lives changed completely, and I remember talking to
a lot of people saying, I just don't even know
who I am right now because you know, our jobs
went away or whatever. So I'm assuming the confidence comes
from the job, the job title, the thing that we're
putting out there. But then when all of it's stripped away,

(08:51):
how do you actually feel about yourself?

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean, and that's that's the identity crisis
that I bump up against. With women, they have been
valued for their work, yea, they feel the most confident
in their work, and then they associate that with self esteem.
But then when they're not at work, that's where this
imbalance is, and it's almost like they don't they're really
hard on themselves, and so it drives them to be

(09:16):
workaholics because okay, well, let me go to the environment
where I do feel valued and I feel like I'm thriving,
but they're burned out.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Of course, you know, yeah, but of course they want
to chase the validation. I mean that is literally the
human condition, right totally.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
And it's not about not savoring and applauding and having
that validation externally. I mean, savor it, but you also
need to be able to relax when you take the
vacation you've earned. You also need to be okay not
being at work and feeling like you're still valued and

(09:56):
worthwhile and that you deserve your peace and your rest.
That's where I find a lot of women, unless they're
productive or you know, focused on output or whatever, they
have a really hard time just receiving oh yeah, being
taken care of. Like it's a really big struggle for women.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean, you keep saying women, and I'm like me
that it's a really big struggle for me. Everything you're
saying I identify with so fully. That has exactly been
my story, and I definitely know a lot of my
friends we share.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
That as well.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
And you do you keep chasing the thing, and especially
in this day and age, that's just how we're rewarded.
So it's so easy to get wrapped up in that,
and a lot of times my friends and I try
to say to each other, yeah, but you're amazing and loving,
like worthy of love because you woke up today just
because you're breathing, not because you did X, Y and
Z award show or whatever, you know, And it is true.

(10:50):
It's like the more success you get, you almost have
to keep yourself in check even more with it.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
You do, because it's a little bit of a drug.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, hold it like.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Achievement addiction, and you know you're gonna just keep challenging
yourself for more and more and more. But the burn
is real short. You know, you only get a high
off of it, like very briefly. It's law of diminishing returns.
And so then it's almost like somewhere along the lines,
your motivation and purpose has to shift, I believe, Okay,
not just about valuing and priding yourself on what you

(11:22):
can achieve. But you know, not to be cliche, but
how do you feel on the journey? You know? And
then how do you feel when you're not achieving? Because
what's the point of achieving if you also can't reap
the rewards? Like if you built this beautiful house and
you spent all of this time, money, and energy building
this house, it's like you did that, and then you're
not allowing yourself to walk through the front door and

(11:42):
enjoy it. And it's almost like women build these amazing
things for themselves and cross these milestones, but then they
don't enjoy and reap the rewards of it. They just
jump back into the next achievement.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Right, because there's always a next level, there's always someone
doing something more totally.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
And then at what point does that just become miserable,
which it does for long and they're like, I should
be happy, And then they double down on the self
judgment because they're like, I have so much, I should
be happy. So then they try to force themselves into
gratitude when they don't. They haven't been able to allow
themselves to really like receive and a lot of that's
the work that I do with women is increasing that

(12:20):
capacity to receive. It's okay, like, and I don't mean
up here we get it theoretically. I mean to these
subconscious systems that are very very very much built on
productivity and output and laxation is lazy, and I mean
it's we just exist in that, especially in the United States.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Isn't it funny because so many women in my life,
especially the ones who are trying to balance the motherhood
and the work situation, because I know that is so
much complain about no one doing anything. You know, it's
the complaint of like, well, I have to do everything anyway.
But then the second someone tries to step in and
do something, they have a really hard time is what

(13:00):
I've noticed, of just accepting it. And then they're still
trying to micromanage. And I'm like, yo, you just said
you need someone to help you, but we have a
really hard time allowing that help to come.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yep, that's that's what I'm talking about. These are systems
that exist below the neck down in the subconscious system
that have been running not just in your lifetime but
for generations and as much as we understand and you know,
I'm a very independent I have no problem delegating. I mean,
I consider myself like I teach this stuff, and I

(13:34):
still fall into those tendencies. It's very deeply ingrained in
women that we cannot stop, we cannot rest, and if
we are to rest, we better make sure that we
earned it. We better make sure that we can justify it.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
God that is Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I'm just promising it all because I really identify, especially.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
What I just said at the beginning of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
The last couple of days, like I have needed to
emotionally release something, yeah, and I have had so much
shame about that because it doesn't it's not like you
can say to your system, yo, it's a Monday.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
I don't have to talk for this like it.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
It would be really nice if we only took rest
or needed rest on the weekends, but that's not the
way that life works. And if you're really like listening
to your body sometimes it's it's not on a schedule
like that. It's not convenient. I guess no, it's not.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
And we do have to work around this confined if
we're not going to build a life that allows for
that flexibility, which you've kind of built a life where allowed.
Same with me. I've allowed for that flexibility, but that's
that's not the reality for a lot of people. No,
you really have to you know, you have to build
that time out otherwise, Yeah, you're going to look back
someday or if you're if you are right now, you're

(14:45):
waking up being like where am I? Who am I?
How did I get here? Okay?

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Who am I?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
You just said the perfect transition for me for the
next thing I want to talk to you about, because
we're talking about self worth and on your website, I
love that you say, remember who you are, not far yourself? Like,
remember who you are? But what's the difference between remembering
who you are and finding yourself?

Speaker 4 (15:07):
So I believe at our core, you know, we come
into this life with some nature, of course, but there's
a lot of conditioning that's stacked on top of that,
and the conditioning of our childhood, even as pleasant as
it may have been, kind of sets the context for
this worldview. And one of the things that we have

(15:29):
to remember, and this comes from doctor gaber Matte speaks
a lot on this, but there are two needs as
children growing up. We have attachment in authenticity and authenticity
for a child is when they feel an instinct like
an emotion or a feeling like they want a cookie
that's authentic to them in that moment, and if the

(15:50):
parent says no or something or you know, takes it
to an extreme reaction or something, right, the child will
shut down their authenticity to keep and preserve the attachment.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
And so when you've had a childhood that is full
of a lot of dismissal or minimization or trauma or abuse,
then a child will continue to sacrifice their authenticity, which
is their instinct, their intuition, which we'll talk about later,
their instincts, their gut urges, and they will do everything
they can to preserve attachment. And as a culture in

(16:21):
a society like the fear of abandonment is the core
fear we all share, yep. And so when I talk
about remembering who used to be, it's before all of
that conditioning that told you you have to be a
certain way, you have to behave a certain way, you
have to stifle certain emotions. You can't trust your intuition
and in order to fit in and especially with women

(16:44):
and men, because we have both energy systems. But that
intuitive piece is so important, and most people have shut
that down because it's just not been allowed and it's
one of the first things that gets sacrificed. So when
I talk about coming back to yourself, to me, it's
a return to our natural state, the.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Way you were before the programming started, before you started
self sacrificing.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yep, okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
And a lot of the work that I do with
women is we'll go back to these very specific milestone
moments where something may have happened. We all have those
kind of core memories and it might be again, it
doesn't have to be like traumatic. It could just be being
made fun of in middle school, but for whatever reason,
it hits you. And we shelve parts of ourself when
that stuff happens. And so there's the healing process of

(17:31):
going back in like healing our trauma, but there's also
a reclaiming process where we go back and pick up
what I call like these little bits of gold, these
pieces of ourselves that were our authentic facets that we say,
this isn't a louder, this doesn't help me, let me
put it back. So you know, there's healing, but then
there's also like we need the past versions of ourselves

(17:51):
because they hold our authenticity.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, and I'm assuming once you start learning those kind
of things are leaning back into those kind of things,
that's going to build the self worth inside as well.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Okay, yeah, we'll circle.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the work
that you do specifically, and so we can get into
the intuition stuff. But what we've mentioned a couple of
times is that you did a photo read for me. Yeah,
and I was like, what is this? Literally, she sends
me an email almost like send me five pictures of
yourself And I was like, do what?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Like?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I mean, it's just interesting, but you said and I
need to be able to see your eyes. So okay,
first of all, will you describe to the listeners what
you do with a photo read? And then second of all,
how did you figure out that you can do this?

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, it's really bizarre. So okay, what a photo read is?
I ask for five recent photos, like in the past
two weeks, and the photos. Actually, you are just a
little bit of a connection gateway for me to be
able to en mesh I guess with your space, with
who you are, and from that I have a keen
ability to kind of happen, and since what's going on

(19:02):
in your inner world? Now, Sometimes I'll get other information
that is about a person in your life or whatever,
and I can never predict that that just happens. But
mainly it's showing you where you might be hiding from yourself,
any blind spots that you have. I can see your potential.
I can see wounding. Sometimes I can see which side,
you know, did it come from the father, did it

(19:23):
come from the mother? Like you know, I'm just very
in tune with people's energy and their emotional system and
their subconscious system. And it's a combination of all the
work and the education that I've done. But I also
think I'm just highly intuitive.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, and you've obviously tapped into yours.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
So when you're operating in the world, how do you
not just walk around and like, can you ever make
eye contact with people?

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Oh? Yeah, I really have to. It's a it's almost
like a brain wave state that I have to get in.
I mean, we by nature are judgmental beings, Thank goodness,
because it's a shortcut to live our lives. Otherwise it
would be everything would feel hard. So we have to
be judgmental. When I do this I quite literally pull

(20:15):
the photos up on my screen. I look at them
for anywhere between ten to sometimes a minute. That's a
really long time for me. Then I turn my camera
on and I just speak as you saw it, like,
and I just record into the video with your photos
up for twenty minutes and send it to you. So
I don't do anything before. I just literally tap in
and it just flows. And so for me, I have

(20:36):
to be in a headspace that is completely non judgmental.
I'm really removed from my personal preferences. And that's impossible
to do in a day to day basis because I
want to be in my experience. I want to be
enjoying my life, and like you know, so I really
do have to turn it on. Now. There are sometimes
where yeah, you just to me, it's kind of like
I you can see people's hair color, and like there's

(20:58):
sort of public domain and energy that comes off of people,
like and we do it. I just don't think women
are owning it as intuition, but like when you're around someone,
they have a feeling to them, like there's a sense
about them that's intuition. I've just learned how to go
into deeper levels of it. So we all kind of
have this essence that comes off of us, and I've

(21:20):
just learned how to see it in really nuanced ways.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
That makes sense to me because something I'm starting to
embrace about myself is a feeling I'll get, like I
will be around a person and I won't know why.
I know this is going to sound simple to people,
but it's so specific when I'm in the moment. It's
like they won't even have to say a word, and
someone can walk in and I either have a good
feeling or a bad feeling, and it is a very

(21:44):
like I can try to talk myself out of it,
but my initial feeling is always the thing that ends
up being true years later, even like I can try
to convince myself to like someone and then it's something
will end up blowing up in my life in that relationship,
and I go gud, that first initial thought was always right.
But it's a feeling for me. It's like a knowing
in my body now that's been studied. Actually, so back

(22:07):
in image consulting, what intrigued me about image consulting was
not so much like the styling and all that. It
was the art of first impressions, oh okay. So really,
as an image consultant, you're working a lot with the
first impression, and you know, when they've done studies on this,
it is true that usually our first gut instinct is
the correct one over time, so it usually doesn't change.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
But most people, I mean, we have that gut reaction.
Most people shut that down so fast and then they
come back. They it just gets flooded with all this
other stimulation that we either miss it or we talk
ourselves out of it, and then you know, yeah, we
miss red flags perhaps.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
But yeah, I mean I'm starting to now say to
myself the second I feel like I don't try to
make it make sense. I used to try to make
it make sense, and it's like, no, I'm not gonna
understand it because this is such a deeper sensing thing
I'm getting with this person's energy, and so those those
things are not going to present themselves to way later
down the road, if that person is even still on

(23:06):
the life. Now, I'm sort of like, if I get
the ick, I'm like out.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yep, yep. And that's why I like, I have been
doing this all my life, I think because I didn't
understand it was intuition. I just thought, I'm an incredibly
aware of person and this is a first impression thing.
I mean, I think it just was very like scientific
in my mind.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
It wasn't like some thing I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
So that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
It just was like, yeah, I just read people. Well. Now,
the discernment that comes over time in practice, is is
it because the person's having a bad moment or is
it because there's something about character that is not blending
with my system? Right? So, you know, because our first
impression can definitely be like we just got pulled over
by the cops, We're having a bad day, like whatever, right,

(23:54):
and so it could be circumstantial, not an actual character thing,
but discerning that just comes from a tremendous amount of practice.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, yeah, I think I have clarity online.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Another thing you say on your website is be who
you need to be so you can do what you
came here to.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Do, which I loved.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
And I think when we were talking about intuition, it
is an easy thing to kind of go, oh, whatever, yeah,
or I'm not even that intuitive, you know, and everyone
has intuition, is what I'm always trying to say on
this podcast. And one of the things that you brought
up to me yesterday when I asked you, you know,
really what you wanted to talk about was to help
that you're really your big purpose right now feels like

(24:33):
helping women cultivate this inner knowing for themselves and just
how that is really tied to reaching our goals and
having like peak performance.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
So why do we need.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
To be who we need to be so we can
do what we need to do?

Speaker 4 (24:50):
First of all, it's easier, and second of all, when
we claim, well, there's sort of like the general facets, right,
there's for women we need to claim this intuitive piece.
But then there's uniquely what is your expression to the world,
and that was unique to every single person. And usually
we can't get to the second one without the first
one because what shuts intuition down is reasoning, structure, facts, data,

(25:16):
And as you said earlier, intuition is very nonsensical. It's
knowing without knowing, and you have to be okay not
making sense of things. You just have to trust and
follow it. In some of the best inventors, leaders, innovators
in the world, they don't know why, they just feel
this is the right move to make, or this was
the right thing to create, you know, like and then
the context comes after the fact, so you know, and

(25:38):
then especially when you get into performance. One of my
mentors years ago, when I was in this performance certification,
she was talking about fighter pilots in the Air Force
and how they ranked really high on intuition and how
you would find that really almost counterintuitive. You think they
would be high on logic and reasoning and all of
that to fly an airplane. And they were like, no,

(25:59):
we have to be in tu to we're moving so fast,
we have to be in flow. You have to be
able to not only follow those instincts, but but trust
them so that you can follow them. So if you
want flow, and if you're here to perform and you're
here to do big things, at some point you're going
to have to own that intuitive piece because it's where
creativity lives, it's where ideas live. And you know, you

(26:20):
can't follow someone else's template into greatness. You've got to
carve your own path.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Oo, if I've tried that one, it doesn't work, just
doesn't work. Go you really can't. It's like, actually you can't.
So do men have the same level of intuition as women?

Speaker 4 (26:35):
They do. They just don't. I would argue it doesn't
come as innate to them.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Okay, but they do.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
I think, you know, when we talk about the masculine feminine,
it's not gender based. It's more like the energy systems
right as humans, we embody both. It's more of a
harmonizing you know. It's not like a fifty to fifty
that we're looking for. It's more like having the right harmony.
And then we all have our unique style on top
of that, you know. And so you'll see men with
an incredible amount and women with an incredible amount of

(27:04):
drive and like, you know, discipline and structure in all
of that. And it's not that they're not using their intuition,
but if they were to go, you know what, there's
something to this intuitive piece that would allow me to
perform faster, fly, higher, move quicker, you know, whatever it is,
they have the same ability that we do as women
to step into that. I don't know if it's as

(27:26):
well received as it is in women, because women instinctually
are When you think of intuition, usually a woman pops
into your mind, not a man. Yeah, so I think
men have just counted themselves out. But and by nature
of that. You know, it's hard to say, like because
they've counted themselves out of the stereotype of what we
associate with that word, they haven't cultivated it or are

(27:48):
they built in a way where they are at a
little bit of a deficit. I don't know the answer
to that. But everyone can cultivate it, and everyone has
the ability to be intuitive.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Also, wonder if it's like if if it's based on
different things, like maybe women can tap into more emotional intuition.
Men are more instinctual, like you were talking about in
the plane, like more the survivor instinct, the like fight
or flight, the protecting from predators. I don't know, I'm
just thinking through like the difference between the maskulin and women.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
In Yeah, for sure. And I think it's also the
amount of safety you carry with you in your system
to be authentic.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Again, if you've had a childhood where you've had to
minimize yourself and like you know, feel small, then usually
intuition is one of the first things that goes. And
so for men or women, if they have any kind
of dynamics like that, first you have to repair the self.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Trust God, that is so true.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
I genuine like, I had an experience with a person
last week that I'm in a relationship with that he
said to me when I reacted to this, which was
a really good reaction. When we first were having a
certain conversation, he totally chose based on intuition, and it
was such a healing emotion, like a beautiful conversation.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
And then a week later we reconnected about that same
conversation and he started bringing in the narratives from his childhood.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
The like structure he thought he should.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Say, trying to figure out the right thing to say,
and it was a disaster of a conversation. So it's
so interesting that we can just intuitively feel how to
be with each other and we end up getting ourselves
into trouble, like talking ourselves out of the actual beauty
between each other.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
See that's the self leadership piece right there, is like, Okay,
you're getting these hits, like women are getting these men
are getting these hits. Yeah, are they following them? And
there's so many reasons we interrupt the flow of those
and you know, part of it is self trust, but
also you know, because it's nonsensical. I'll tell a brief
story when I was pregnant with my daughter. I had

(29:49):
a dream during second trimester she was going to be breach.
And so then when they told me at about thirty
four thirty five weeks she's breach, I was like, okay,
well expected that and here goes and you know, we
were on a path of natural childbirth whatever, and so
they encouraged me to go do all these things. So
I did all the things to try to get her
to turn, and I just was like, I don't think
she's going to turn. And they wanted me to do

(30:09):
this ECV procedure, which is where the doctor, you like,
go in and they prep you as if you may
need an emergency C section, but the doctor will manually
try to turn the baby. And I've heard it's very painful,
like in your stomach. And they were really encouraging me
to do that because if they could get her to turn,
then I could stay the path. And I was like, listen,
I'm a flexible person. I'm not so rigidly holding to this.

(30:32):
And I was like, it is it, and I'm running
this through my system right and intuitively, I'm like, she's
not going to turn. She's not going to turn, And
so I went back and I said, I'm going to
stick with just having the csarean, And I could see
the look of disappointment from the midwife and the nurse
in the room, and she was not coming down on me,

(30:53):
but I could tell that she really wanted me to
try it. And in that moment, I'm like, who am I.
I'm not an authority, I'm not a nurse, and here's
this person who knows better. And that happens a lot
in our lives. Is like the experts come in and
they tell us, you know, and so yet we want
to trust people, and there is a balance to that.
For sure. Self leadership is about having that really fine

(31:14):
line of discernment to go, I know you're an expert,
and this doesn't take anything away from you being an expert,
but I got to trust me here. And so then
when we delivered, the doctor was like, oh, I want
to have been able to turn her. She had one
foot stuck in my pelvis in one foot up doing
the splits, and so I was like, it was like
the first rite of passage into motherhood, like mother's intuition.
I'm like, we didn't do that, but it was I

(31:36):
almost turned back around and went back in there and said,
you know what, I'm gonna trust you and go do it.
It takes a lot of conviction to stick to that, knowing.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
It really does, and that you would have just suffered
through something painful to note all you want it either.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
It's so traumatic for both of us.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
So you've talked about high achieving women, which I have
always been taught that when we are in our high
achieving state and we're really like, are a lot of
women who get into like a high business place start
operating from their masculine and so it's like getting back
in touch with our women's intuition, our feminine energy and

(32:13):
all that stuff. But now we're talking about that both
men and women have intuition, So can you kind of
navigate that for me? Like, how if we're in a
masculine place in our work world, why do we need
to go back into the feminine or why are we
not able to tap into our intuition if we're in
the masculine?

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I don't know. Am I making sense with that?

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yeah? I think I'm following you with that, Like why
the need to hone both systems?

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Like why so anything taken to its extreme will become
its opposite. So if anyone is too extreme in their drive,
drive starts to become stubbornness or rigidity, okay, And the
way to harmonize that so that you don't fall into
the trap of being a workaholic and burn out. And frankly,

(33:02):
when you're driving from that place, you're in such a
contracted state of sheer will power. There's no creativity flow there,
so you're probably not honestly thinking the best for the
state of growth for the stakeholders involved in the growth
of the company. It's sheer production, and there's a time

(33:23):
and a place for sheer production, and then there's a
time and a place for growth and creativity. But if
you are like driving and disciplined and highly structured in
all of this, it leaves very little room for flexibility
to pivot and to innovate. And so when we talk
about leadership, you really need both sides of the coin otherwise,
you know. And then on the other side, if you

(33:43):
don't have any drive or I put purpose in the
masculine category as well, if you don't have the discipline
and you're all just intuition, you're just kind of like
going over here and going over here and going over here,
you know, like then the structure is not there to
support the growth. So either way it has to be
harmonized correctly, otherwise it's going to become a limitation.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
And so the okay, so it's basically learning how to
do the drive, have that balance, but then also take
a step back, pat back in, really remember who you are,
the motivations, the creativity, all of that stuff will start flowing.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah. I mean, and even I work with a lot
of business owners, and so for them, it's so easy
to fall into the trap of thinking that it has
to look like this a steady growth. That's not how
it looks.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
It looks like this, yeah, or the court screw is
the one I always do, like up and down, And
that's just life.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
It's just the way it's going to go. And you know,
for me, I've had many seasons in my career. Some
are highly productive and it's a lot about structure. And
then to me, it just kind of feels like weather,
Like weather comes in and I can just sniff it
out and I can tell time to step back, and
it's a season of almost regrouping and auditing and like
loowing down and maybe taking a down year in revenue

(35:04):
because to have the next big stage, I have to
have the space to regroup. There's a famous like adage
or metaphor about you know, shooting the arrow, and for
the arrow to have momentum, you have to pull it
back first. And there's an honoring of the seasons that
has to occur that I think sometimes women can struggle

(35:24):
with because again, stepping back to them looks like, oh
my gosh, I'm killing my momentum.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, But to conceive and create the next big stage
it's equally as important.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
That's the hard part, because that's what we talked about
at the beginning, where if if you're in the pullbacks eight,
you're trying to rest and relax, recoup all the things
we shame ourselves.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Yeah, we do.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
It's like a constant cycle we do.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Well, let's talk a little bit more about the other
things that you do. You've mentioned a couple of times
of high achieving women, and so I know there's a
business mentorship also paradigm shifts.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
So can you talk.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Through what both of those mean if people would be
interested in working with you?

Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, So everything we've talked about here without going like
too technical. It's like we can live in a paradigm
of worthiness or not, and a paradigm is a pattern.
And it's like again that worldview that gets set when
we're little and then it gets reinforced by our culture.
And for my audience of women, most of them live

(36:24):
in this paradigm of I've got to earn it. It's
got to be a struggle. If I didn't do it myself,
it doesn't count. You know, everything we've talked about, that's
a paradigm that they live in and it doesn't have
to be that way. So part of breaking out of
any kind of pattern is you have to pause, because
if you don't pause, then the pattern just keeps replicating itself.

(36:44):
And so the platform which you can find at start
Pausing dot com, the gateway to that would be this
five day mental reset, which is to really help women
who know they're in their heads too much, who know
that they maybe have a tendency to be like perfectionistic
and overly driven and they can't relax, you know, to
really find that harmony again, which will make everything, including

(37:07):
in their personal life, so much easier. So it's shifting
from one paradigm that our culture has told us and
prided this is the way, and really claiming and agreeing
with that there is another way to be in your
life that is not so much sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
I always talk about the power of the pause. That's
why I was smiling when you were saying that. Yes,
the listeners are so familiar with that because I did
the opposite, and I, like I said, tried to follow
the rule book of someone else or many other people
for many years and it just led to such burnout
and complete collapse.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, but it.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Was ultimately the best thing for me because it has
taught me a little bit more about balance and I
struggle with it still. It's like an ongoing thing. But
even allowing myself yesterday to reach out to you was
like such progress for me because I would have just
powered through in the past, you know. And sometimes we
just have to pause and give ourselves a space.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
Well, that's where life is actually created, is in the pause.
It's not in the do Yeah, because the pause is
where we have that choice point of going do I
want to continue this way or is there another choice?
And there is and you can't do that if you
don't pause. So I'm curious for you, like what prevented
you from pausing before you kind of had sounds like
you got a force pause.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
I did have a forced pause.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I think what prevented me was definitely feeling like opportunities
were coming and if I stopped, I would miss them.
That was a big one. But then what happened is
the more opportunities that came, I did not really know
exactly how to outsource, and so I just had so
much on my plate and there wasn't any space in
my life for a life at all. Like I couldn't date,

(38:43):
I was only working basically, I barely saw my friends,
and I was in a season. Sometimes I do think
there's seasons of that where you're just like, Yeah, these
opportunities are here, I need to like go into them.
But then what happened is I would try to start
having a life, and the the decisions I was making
in my personal life because I wasn't allowing myself to

(39:04):
tap into my intuition and stop ended up being the
thing that brought me to my knees because I was
surrounding myself with people who weren't good for me, you know,
in relationship and work dynamics and things like that, and
so yeah, it just ended up. I always I'm like,
oh my god, I feel like I had a mental breakdown,
But I truthfully, I know it was my own intuition
being like you have to stop and the contracts that

(39:26):
I made before I came here. If you're a sole
person like me, like I always just feel like those
people just did exactly what they needed to do in
my life to get me to actually stop and get
to know myself again. Even though it was painful, it
was still the best thing. And I always say that,
although like I went through some a couple years of

(39:46):
just really like kind of cleaning things out and it
was very painful and hard, it really did bring me
back to me. So that's why your statement was so
profound to me, because I'm like, that is it. It's
not like you have get to know yourself, but it's
like who am I and where did I get lost
along this way? It's just like shifting you back onto
the right path.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah. I just so appreciate that approach because to me,
that's everything. It's like, Okay, challenge, challenge, challenge, and a
lot of times it is like the universe or whatever
getting louder and louder because you're not paying attention, and
I'll try.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
I mean, I'll definitely I'll be.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Like like oh, like no, no, no, no, We're going
on this path for sure.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Because we don't want to stop. Because here's the thing.
It feels so good to achieve, and it feels so
good to be driven, and it feels so good to
experience the satisfaction of like being in our element. But
it also feels really good to be taken care of
and to relax and to be like and to receive
and to feel like, Okay, I felt this great in
my office, but the moment I walk out the store,

(40:46):
I'm gonna be with my daughter, and I also feel
relaxed and like I want I want all of it.
I don't want to just feel good thriving in my career.
And I feel like for me that was such my
baby was my career, and it just started to feel
like well, and then in my personal life exactly, and
it's like, I want it it all. I want to
feel good in all the spaces. I really want to

(41:08):
lay my head on my pillow at night and genuinely
feel like I'm a great wife and I'm a great mom,
and I want my kids to be able to see
a relaxed mom, not just a productive, awesome mom, you know,
And so you shouldn't have to get to burn out
to learn those lessons, but we all do it, and
sometimes that's just how it's going to show up for us.
But I love that you're able to leverage those as

(41:31):
catalysts for massive growth, because yeah, that's the only way
I know how to see it. And I'm like so
thankful for those moments in my life because they fundamentally
change everything for me in the most possible ways.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Me too, mostly in the way of having a relationship
with myself at all, because when you're in the doing
space of the go go go go go achieve achivachieva
achieve again, we're just such we're driving so much that
our intuition is the thing that tells us, like when
to stop, take care of yourself, when to eat for me,
when to sleep. When you know, it's like all those
basic needs go under the table. And then also like

(42:08):
I was just lonely. I didn't realize it, but man,
I mean I looked on the outside.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Like I had it all together.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, the thing that was like the driving force in
most of my days was seeking connection and mostly with myself.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Oh my gosh. Yes, there's like this longing that women
feel and they're like, I don't know what it is
because I've got this and I've got this people around me,
and there's just this longing and it's in my heart
center and I what is that, Shauna. I'm like, it's you.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
You're right, you miss you.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Because if you're giving it all away, like you're just
giving it all away, that's it. And if you start
from it like that place and you're just achieving like
that and just giving and giving and giving, eventually it
does catch up with you. It is because we have
to give to ourselves first, is what I've learned. And
it gets so much harder than it sounds.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Well. And I do want to say this because this
is a good respective shift that I tell a lot
of my clients. It's like, here's the deal. No one's
telling you to give less, because I know I've worked
with women for a long time and listen, they there
is an addiction to giving a lot. If you're going
to give at that level, totally cool, and you should
because you have a capacity for it. Just meet it

(43:19):
with the same amount of receiving for yourself so that
you can give. And I think sometimes when we have
the giving conversation or like fill your own cup first,
women are like I have people that I'm responsible for
and they feel like you're telling them to give less
and that message really does not drive with women.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
So it's so interesting. That is a great point. I've
never thought about that.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
I just think like own it, like give what you're
going to give, but build the capacity, which is the
work that I do to be able to receive what
you need to receive to stay so you can keep
the cycle of energy going.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Yeah, ah, that is good. Okay, Shauna.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
If people want to keep up with you or work
with you, where would they find you.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
I'm Shanna van Bogart everywhere, including my website, Instagram, and
then check out start pausing dot com.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Start pausing dot com. I will put that all into
description of the this podcast for you guys. Thank you
so much for yesterday, for today, for the photo read
all the things you guys, go get your photo red.
It's fascinating. I mean, she nailed me so hardcore, and
before you know it, I might be behind a mic
because that.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
Was a part of I'm telling you it can I'm.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Behind a mic right now, but she kept saying, I
see you singing.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
I still do. I'm like, there's something, there's something, even
if it's just for your private little like, there's something
about it for you. I'm telling you it has not
left me and I'm like, there's something there.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Oh that's hilarious because the listeners have also heard me
try to sing as a joke with my co host
on Fridays and it does not go well Shawna.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
So we shall see.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
But I will keep you guys posting on that singing again.
I will put all the Shana's info in the description
of this podcast co checker out. Thank you so much
for being here.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
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