September 26, 2025 • 43 mins
After Wednesday’s deep dive with therapist Katie Gustafson on the Enneagram’s core fears, Kelly and Chip are putting themselves in the hot seat. Kelly (a 4) opens up about the fear of not being enough, while Chip (a 7) shares how his fear of being trapped or missing out shows up in everyday life. From dramatic spirals to overbooked calendars, the two trade stories, laugh at themselves, and get real about what these fears actually look like behind the scenes. They also share practical tools they’re trying to break the patterns and find more freedom.
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Chip Dorsch // @chipdorsch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, well, we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We are back.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Huh did we record last week or we did a
repeat last week? Didn't we?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We recorded twice in a week, recorded two in one week,
so we did not.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh no, no, last week wasn't It wasn't. You're right,
it was not a repeat that was the week before,
because it was it was about female orgasms, and you
were like, yeah, I got nothing on this one, pie.
This is not my area of expertise, right, right, right,
fair enough, fair enough. Well, we're back and I haven't
spoken to you in a while. We've both been traveling
(00:46):
so that we're a little bit discombobulated with each other.
But we're here this week. I'm actually really excited about
this topic to do this with you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You seem thrilled, Well, let me clue listeners. And so
I recently, I've had multiple areas and I was just
explaining this to you too. I have multiple areas in
my life where this topic it just keeps appearing, you know,
like that'll happen. So, like you and I have been
having certain conversations my boyfriend and I, a friend and
I another friend and I have had conversations and core
(01:19):
fears just keeps coming up. And it's interesting because I've
had some experiences of going through like tricky situations and
I'll watch myself react to them, and it's kind of
surprising me sometimes, like how it's impacting me, you know,
like I'm just always kind of curious or staying curious
about responses to things. And so it kind of brought
(01:39):
me back to, Oh, man, I wonder, like I feel
a little scared right now. This like fear is coming
up and it's driving me and getting acquainted again with
part of my enneagram number, because each enneagram number comes
with a fear, like a core fear. And so anyway,
I've done a podcast about this before and I was like,
I got to repost this one. It was so good.
(02:00):
It's with my friend Katie guffstas Gus stuff Son. Her
last name's little tricky for me. Yeah, but she is
a therapist here in Nashville, and she uses the enneagram
and her practice like very it's a big, big, heavy
part of her practice. And so she's come on the
podcast a couple times and we do conversations about the
different layers of enneagram, you know, it's one of those
(02:21):
personality tests that has like all these different factors so
you can learn the basics, same as astrology. It's like
you learn the basics and then there's more to learn,
like you're never done learning about it basically. And so
she and I really dove into the core fears that
drive each number. There's nine numbers on the zodiac, I
mean the zodiac. I'm getting them confused. There's nine numbers
on Oh my good lord.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
If this weren't confusing enough for me, and now you're
mixing them up, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
God, sorry. It reminds me of astrology in a lot
of ways. And when you learn your number on an
endeagram chart or like in an enneagram practice, I am
confusing to when you start learning about your astrological chart,
there's so much over you know, like, and that's kind
of what you end up getting to when you do
any of these modalities, they all are essentially saying the
(03:06):
same thing. This is even how I started to feel
about like spirituality and religion, Like essentially most things are
saying the same things. It's just what helps you understand it.
Like for different people, I feel like different modalities are
just easier to digest or they really speak to them,
they really get into them. So that's why I'm just
like always wanting to present all of them here. And
(03:27):
I am such a nerd that I like learning about
most of.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Them right right, The enneagram definitely makes the most sense
to me, even though I don't have a like a
deep understanding of the numbers. But like it's personality driven,
and I mean it doesn't feel like it's an active choice,
but because it's based.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
On the way that you develop as a child and.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Right, and your personality is created, I can wrap my
head around that, Like where Venus is in some cycle
with moons and shit like that, I like feel like
I'll never it's.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Just too much. Yeah, I mean, I think when we
start talking about astrology sometimes your brain shuts down if
I start speaking about the planets or the placement or whatever,
and so you're more into the why or what it
makes you do the personality part of it, like you said,
And because when we talk about astrology and I'm explaining
to you the energy behind things, you do get more
(04:22):
interested in that totally, like what's driving you all of
those things? But the actual planetary alignment?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Does you start talking about houses and planets and rings
and all the things.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm like, you lost me.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, only the nerds like that. H So Katie and
as conversation really broke down like each number's core fear
and I was bringing this to you and you were like, well,
should you surprise me with mine? And I'm like, no,
this is way too in. It's such a seven. So
let's tell the listeners. First of all, you are an
idiogram seven, I'm an endeogram four. And if you know
(04:55):
anything about the enneagram, that probably makes complete sense to you,
because we are very much each of our numbers. If
you don't know anything about the enneagram, hopefully this conversation
will inspire you maybe to just go take the test
and learn about yourself and your number. Because what I
tell people is once you know this kind of stuff,
you start applying it to all places of your life.
(05:17):
So because people are like why do I care, you know,
like I don't care what number I am, and I'm
like no, it can actually really help you within your relationships.
It can really help you at work and how you
deal with people. It can help you knowing what you
want to do with your life, like it helps with
so much more than you ever could anticipate once you
start understanding it, and.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
This helps you understand yourself. And because there's so much
that we do that we don't understand the choices that
we make or why we fall into certain patterns and
all this, and the understanding that you can get from
the enneagram is like it doesn't give you license to
just do whatever, but it gives you understanding to be like, oh,
(05:57):
that's why I do that all the time, or like
that's why I'm drawn to this. It just gives you clarity.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, and core fear is a huge part of that
because it's driving every decision that we make, and if
you're doing it unconsciously, it's something that you don't know
about driving every decision that you make. Like, wouldn't you
want to just know why you're making the decisions you
are so that you can be more conscious about what
you even decide.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, especially if.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You feel like you make a lot of bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I think we don't necessarily even know sometimes that
we're making a bad I don't even know if there's
bad or good decisions, but like if we're making a
decision that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
We've definitely made some bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, but they're always learning. So that's like why I say,
that's like, you make these bad decisions quote unquote, but
then you learn some lesson from it. So it's wasn't
it worth it? Isn't that what life's all about? You
know what I mean? But there's these driving forces, and
if it's coming from a place of fear or insecurity
or anything like that, it might not actually be what
(06:56):
we truly want or desire, and so we're just trying
to survive. And so that's the point of understanding kind
of these core fears that are driving you, so that
when you are making a decision, you're going, is this
my fear driving me? Is this real? Are these like
are these fears real? Or are these things from my
(07:17):
childhood that I'm thinking or happening that are just not
even actually happening. So anyway, I feel like we've done
the dissecting of why we're having this conversation, and I
want to kind of just get into it because we
have a lot to unpack. So, as I said, I'm
an enneagram for you're an enneagram seven. And first of all,
the enneagram seven is called the enthusiast, which is like
nothing sums you up more because you're always pretty much
(07:42):
in a good mood, Like I really can't feel I
cannot remember any if not, I mean definitely not many
times where you've been in a bad mood, right, I don't.
I can't think of it.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And I'm always down for fun.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Well you're always down? Yes, So your biggest core fear
that you will be deprived, trapped, limited, or suffer pain,
especially like emotional pain. Do all these things in your
life to avoid those things?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Did that feel right to you?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah? I mean it's it talks about.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I mean, there's obviously various innumerable ways that you could
become that you know on the explanation that you had
sent me from Katie's website, like it says, it's often
from you know, a difficult relationship with a parental figure,
normally maternal, but it also can be paternal if someone's
overbearing or dominant. Mean, my mother is just like me,
(08:41):
but she was those things she was she was just
had very she was strict, she had strict rules. Plus,
I mean, I don't know that this came into play
in full awareness as a young child, but like.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Being gay, my soul had to have known.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I didn't realize it yet, so I'm sure that there
was something. And then I mean there were definitely times
in my life that I can remember that it was
something that I was actively hiding. Even as a young child,
like fourth fifth grade, I was aware of it. So
I think those fears, you know, like that became a
core fear too. Also, I didn't want to be excluded,
you know, I didn't want.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
To be othered.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And obviously having come out doesn't play as big a role.
But I also I'm not the type of person that
walks into a room full of strangers waving a gay
pride flag either, you know, I just am myself, like
if it comes up, it's great, Or if I'm in
a relationship and I'm there with my significant other who
happens to be a man, I don't shy away from it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I'm not like this is my roommate, you know, my
special friend, right. My mom likes to say.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But you know, I'm not like a flag bearer, And
I think that probably has to do something with this
core fear as well, you know, like that fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I probably like suppression, yeah, of your truth, because even
what you're saying about like I don't think that your
parents meant to do this, but because of their beliefs
or how they were brought up or whatever, the piece
of you that was gay feeling like you needed to
suppress that and it wasn't fully accepted even still, like
when you said your mom calls it your special friend.
(10:17):
That's not full acceptance. And so there's something in you
that could probably take that as criticism in a way
and try to avoid that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, And I think for them and me, it was environmental.
They were just weren't gay people around. They didn't know
gay people. I didn't know gay people, and I think
that's just a small town thing.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Now there's gay people on television and people are a
lot more educated. So younger parents are probably different that
are in the same small.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Towns or just a different level of exposure. But yeah,
it was an unknown so I was scared of it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, it's so weird with the enneagram. I asked Katie this,
and I don't remember if it was this podcast or
another podcast we've done, but you had said something about
like it comes from when you're younger, and so I
did ask her, is this nature versus nurture? Because it's
so some of it feels very much like you probably
just came into the world that way to some degree,
(11:10):
and then some of it feels learned. And she said
it's probably both, like, yeah, we're a little more apt
to go a certain way with certain numbers, Like I
was probably never going to be a seven, you know,
no matter what my upbringing was, but I might have
been a two or something else, and then there were
different factors that pushed me more into the flour. I
don't know. That's the best that I can make sense
(11:31):
of it, at least.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Because it's so personality driven, Like I think there are
things I do think personality is a combination of the two,
like yeah, I think yeah, And there are things that genetically,
I can tell you the personality pieces of myself that
came from my mother, But then there are personality pieces
of myself that I developed because of core fears or
(11:55):
whatever those influences were. But I am way too much
like like my mom to not rule out nature, you know.
And then I'm different enough from my mom that I
can't rule out nurture either, because I have been nurtured
by more people on you know, than just my mom.
So I do think like in terms of the shape
(12:18):
of my personality, my overall personality, it's both.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, did you read the parts? So when I was
looking at how the fears might show up in your life,
it's as constant seeking of new experiences, options and stimulation
to avoid boredom, pain or missing out, avoidance of emotional depths.
Difficult feelings are long term commitment because those can feel
limiting over commitment, scattering their energy across too many projects,
(12:44):
relationships or ideas, impulsivity or fomo driving decisions. I know
when I was reading it, I was like, this is ship.
This is ship, this is ship. Difficulties staying present in
the moment because their mind is already wanted, possibility chat
if chat.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, it's like it's wild. It's wild to like just
hear it put into words, because and I'm not embarrassed
by any of those things.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I'm just like, holy shit, how does.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It know summing you up so clearly? Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And the funny thing is, if like that was put
into my horoscope in whatever ways, I'd be like bingo,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Like, yeah, I mean That's why I'm saying it does
usually carry over. It's just different ways to talk about
it all. But I do think that that fear of
like I see you doing a lot where you bounce
from thing to thing to think to thing, and there's
not a lot of downtime. I definitely know you have fomo,
like you do not want to miss out on one
(13:45):
fun time. You'll be running on so many fumes sometimes
and you just.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Like straight from the plane still, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Straight from the plane onto the next, onto the next.
I'm like, oh my god, are you about to turn fifty,
because like not forty three year old ass cannot You're like,
I'm a bet at nah a last night I was
a thirty Yeah, So yeah, I don't know how you
do it. Sometimes now it started to make me ask,
do you want to be doing all those things? Or
is it your fear driving you in some way?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I mean that's a really good question. Like I think
it's probably a combination of both. I definitely have the
older I get like learned to say no to the
things I really don't want to do, but there's a
lot that I want to do. So I still probably
do too much. And I definitely know that I do
more than most people in terms of just like having fun.
Like last night, I went to two concerts last night.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But I didn't ask you why you seem so tired today?
So that makes total sense.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Got looking like you're dragging ass.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
It was, and I've been like I've been crushing orc today,
but I yeah, I went and saw the Black Crows
last night at a private television taping and left that
and went and saw to the Wetsprocket at the Ryeman.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I tell you, the parking gods were on my side.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I got the parking so I right in front of
the Ryeman as I pulled up, went right in saw
the show. It's been so long since I've done that,
So that's just I give you that as an example,
because I still have the energy to do the things
that I want to do. But if it's something that
I'm like, I don't want to do that, Like I'm
skipping an event tonight that I thought I would want
to do, but I don't want to do it. But
I do think some of it is fear driven, like
(15:19):
especially when it comes to like time with my friends,
like I don't want to like not be part of
that moment and that history or miss out on the
conversations and all the things. But I also really love
spending time with my friends, So I would never want
my friends to think that I'm there just because I'm
scared of missing out, you know. Yeah, but I think
that that probably plays a role in it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, it's really interesting to think about and then to
think about like the relationship piece. As far as romantic relationship,
I've never known you to not be good at commitment.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In my last relationship, like I felt like very in it,
like felt like there was a future, but it was
also it's also hard for me to see that future like,
oh my god, well what happens when we start talking
about like where we're going to live?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know, like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Those conversations scare me because I would much rather it
just feel like it feels right now.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh that's interesting. Yeah, I'm obviously taking notes because my
boyfriend's seven as well.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, So I think if you want to have those
conversations with a seven years, yeah, yeah, you have to
start them because a seven is happy in the moment,
then the future doesn't matter because that's exactly what you want,
is that happiness?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yes? Yes, but I you know, it's funny too.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Because when we decided this was the conversation we're going
to have, I like I wanted to like dig into
the idea of fear as a positive thing, Like what
are some of the positive things? And it's funny too,
because it's like, you know, fear because of a feel
of failure, Like I'm you know, it breeds creativity and
motivation for sure. Yeah, you know there's so many like
(17:07):
good things, you know, a shared fear. Like another example
that I got was, like, I mean COVID is a
great example, like people can come together when there's like
a collective fear so that you overcome something. If we
weren't all scared of COVID, then we would have never
figured out how to get past that plague.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh you are hitting on a hot button though.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I know, and I'm not just talking about vaccines here,
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Like no, but a lot of I think there were
the people who were really scared of COVID, and then
there were the people who were like this is not real.
So we saw the way that fear can impact so
many different things. And I think we still are seeing
that in our society on a bigger scale, which is
a whole nother conversation, But how much we've talked about this,
how much like media uses fear, how much is actopamin
(17:55):
hit and how we're all kind of addicted to fear now.
And to your point, I do think that half the
reason I've gotten any of the stuff in my younger
days was this like fear of failure, like I need
I worked so hard and then I burnt out and
that collapse and like so I think what I'm realizing
at this age, and I'm sure it'll change and evolve
(18:17):
many times for the rest of my life, but like
right now, my feeling on it is a little dose
of fear is good, like you said, like it can
light a fire under your ass. And also it's just human,
like we're just gonna have that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean we're not.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I think we're at the top of the food chain
because of fear. Like course, it ignites like our yeah,
it ignites our survival. It like gives us adrenaline, and
it's all the things like if we weren't scared of anything,
we would have been eaten by the wolves.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I would just not get out of bed, and I
would do it. I wanted to every day, you know,
like I don't. Yeah, it would change the way we
do life for sure, And so like a little dose
of or I think just accepting that it is a
part of life and that it will be there and
present at some point is staying in reality. And also
(19:03):
I think it's good to be aware of it and
how much of your life it's driving, because if it's
driving all of your life, you're probably operating in survival mode,
which is what I was doing for so long, which
will ultimately always crash from inside the Yeah, and you're
not going to be happy, You're not gonna probably be
living your truth. So that was the whole point of
(19:24):
these conversations was sort of like, Okay, just to have
it in check, because there is so much with fear
right now in our world, and there is actually so
much happening, and also so much is being manipulated and
played up for us to stay in fear. So it's
like it's just this big cycle of fear right now.
So I think it's good to understand what really triggers
(19:46):
you into that so that you can operate from a
more informed place with yourself and so it doesn't get
out of hand, and you can also.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
How to deflect that like manufactured fear like that the
media does our government is using right now. Like it
is really easy to get into a scroll doom no
matter what side of like a dun Yeah, a doom
scroll was what I'm at. Sorry, maybe I am tired
(20:16):
and I'm saying like on either side of the aisle,
it doesn't matter where you are, like, because your algorithm
knows what you feel, and it's really easy to get
in there and just feel like the world is ending,
and then you are You've been captured by the fear.
And this isn't to say don't scroll, because I think
it's important to be informed on your position, but I
(20:36):
think it's more important to recognize when you're being manipulated
by fear, and it is healthy to put it down
and be like, I got to get.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Away from this.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Like even if you feel really strongly that these important
things that you're learning, you have to approach them from
a standpoint that is healthy for you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And that's different for everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I mean, it's like everything in life, right, if
it goes to the extremes, it's probably going to become
a problem in your life. That's just like moderation, as
boring as it sounds is like so sexy to me.
Now in life, it's just like it because if someone
knows how to live in moderation and just like so
you can enjoy life. You can enjoy the good and
(21:21):
you can also understand that there's other things happening too,
so you're not in denial, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Can you eat cheese?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
No? I mean I'll do a little.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, You're like, okay, I'll live through. I'll live through
the pain.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Look, I want to eat cheese, but yeah, like there's
certain you know, just a little dose of things cause
you the pain. That's cheese is the perfect example. I
cannot eat a lot of it or I'll be in
bed for three days, right, Okay, Well so mine. It's
funny because the enneagram four has like four names, which
is probably fair because we have a lot of emotions.
(21:54):
So it can be called the individualist, the romantic, or
the creative is where what I've seen it set out
And my biggest core fear is feeling deficient, inadequate, insignificant,
or that I have no identity or special significance. And
that is so fucking true for me, is it not?
I mean, did you read mine and go? Because I
(22:15):
read yours, and I was like, well, this is chip.
Did you read mine and say that yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You know, there were some things because I'm going to
read the one that I read so word for word
because some of it feels a little extreme for you.
But I also think it's a lot nail on it.
Type four right, it's four right, yeah. Type four fear
fear being deficient and ultimately rejected or abandoned. Many fours
(22:42):
describe an early, actual or perceived experience of loss of
love and as a result, abandonment or deprivation. The story
they make up in their head is that somehow they
caused this, so they spend a great deal of time
and energy focusing on how to somehow reverse this with
the ideal relateationship for situation, this normally always involves being
(23:04):
seen as special and unique. In the process, they can
become self absorbed, hot and cold, and chronically melancholic. And
so I've never thought you to be self absorbed.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, but I do.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Like the melancholic thing to me is the feeler. Like
I don't think that you're chronically sad, but I think
that you are chronically affected by feelings, And like the
relation the like trying to fix the relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
That you knew was broken that one. You see that
movie a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know, yeah, that's like my whole thirties basically.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
But it's like now looking back, like was that a
bad thing? No, that is just a piece of your personality.
So it's like, now you know the red flags to
look for.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Well, okay, so the relationship piece is a perfect because
you experienced it with me, This would be a really
interesting thing for me to get feedback from you on.
And I think what I would say when I was
reading through the whole four thing, I don't resonate with
all of it anymore of the negative parts of it.
But that's because hopefully as we get older, we're learning, maturing, growing,
(24:11):
evolving and so definitely and recognizing and like, if you
ask people who knew me in my twenties, I'm sure
I was some of the lower levels of the four
way more than I am now, you know what I mean, Like,
I think probably, or my hope would be that we've
grown through life and so you're kind of operating from
(24:31):
the higher level of each number at this stage of
life where you and I are, but with relationships, that's
the perfect example, because you're exactly right that I wouldn't
even know myself the relationship was not good for me
or good for the other person or working, but I
would just think I would What they said about taking
(24:52):
on the responsibility or thinking it was my fault was
so it. And so I ended up in relationships with
a lot of like highly people with high narcissistic traits
that would take advantage of that exact thing where it's like, oh, well,
she thinks she's defective, so I'm just gonna always shift
the blame back to her, and my like little wounded
(25:14):
self would be like, Okay, this is my fault, like
I gotta go fix this. And so I would try
all of these things and just continue to self abandon
over and over and over to keep the relationship alive
or to you know, quote unquote make the relationship work.
And then the more I did that, and the worst
it got over years of doing it with I mean,
(25:35):
like you said, it was different relationships even but it
was like it was a different face but the same
situation over and over and over until I like got
it finally to where like now in my relationship, when
things go wrong, like I don't personalize them, like I
will always take ownership for my shit, and I do that,
and if there's things I can work on, I will,
(25:56):
But like if something would go wrong or we would
break up, I wouldn't be like this is because I'm
defective or something like me Like that has shifted in
me and that has been a huge help in my
life and my relationships and my work. This same thing
can come up in my work like I used to
kill myself to make things happen, or I was such
(26:18):
a perfectionist that I couldn't even function sometimes because I
need or like you know, I wasn't sleeping and stuff
because I would need stuff to be perfect. And it's
from that same fear though that like not enough, Whereas
now if something happens, I can still go to it
for sure. I can definitely I went to it last week,
Like I had a couple of really bad days and
(26:38):
I was like, I suck. I should quit everything, you know,
just the typical like spiral that I do with myself,
and then I can get myself out of it. So
it's not perfect by any ways, but I can kind
of start to see things a little more clearly of
like no you're doing that thing again. You're personalizing stuff
that probably has nothing to do with you, or if
it does, like it's something that could be shift did
(27:00):
on a bigger scale, Like it's not just because I'm
not good enough or right right.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know, it's funny that the like ideal word in
the situation or in the in the piece that I
read that I thought was interesting is that when she
said so, they spend a great deal of time and
energy focusing on how to somehow reverse this with the
ideal relationship or situation. So it's almost like the fear
(27:27):
comes because you have deemed something ideal. Like I don't
even want to go into details because I think you
can look at.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Some of this. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Let's in terms of work, because I don't want to
make it relationship based.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Like if you're.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Like, this is the perfect client for me, I've always
wanted this client, and then.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Maybe it's not. But you've told yourself that it's ideal.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I mean, you're not both normal it will situation right, so.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And but that's what's funny because you're fighting it not
being ideal.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
But it starts to feel perfect for me.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, you're like and so I think once you can
recognize that, wait a minute, this is just not an
ideal situation, it's a lot easier to walk away from
it or fix what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And how many times have you seen me get stuck
on these loops of like the pain of losing that situation,
Like I get stuck on ship for years and I
know I do it now, but like I wasn't aware
that to me that would be like the label self absorbed,
Like I don't think mine ever is that I'm so selfish.
I can't think of other people. I'm constantly thinking of
(28:35):
other people. But when I get in this headspace where
I'm trying to figure out how to make something work
that's not meant for me, I'm so self fuss. It's
because I'm like just trying to figure it out, Like.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Well, you think you have the solution and that's self absorbed.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
People and powerful?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Who do I think I right? It is?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I mean I think a lot of people and I
don't know if this is only a four thing, but
I think that's the think A lot of people struggle
with that, Like we all want to be good enough
to like make anything better, and maybe it's not meant.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
To be better.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Maybe it's meant to be exactly the way that it is,
it's just not meant for you.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean. One of the things that still comes
up in my current relationship is like if I'm having
a bad day, like an off week, let's say, and
right now, what's happening, what happens for me is like
if I try really hard to something and something doesn't
go well, or like it could be anything, something happens
with a friend or my family or whatever, and it
weighs on me and I know I'm not operating from
(29:35):
my best place, and like he and I are in
a good place, but then I do something that is
like out of the other place that I'm I'm not
sure if I'm making sense, but like if I just
don't have a good reaction to something or whatever, I
can still get stuck on a loop of like, fuck,
that wasn't great, And even if I apologize, I'll almost
like find myself over compensating to like make sure he's
(29:58):
good that day. And I'm like, it's so good that
I'm in the relationship I'm in now because he's like, hey,
like it's good, it's okay. I love you. Like you
like he knows how to like calm me down out
of that to kind of be like I'm not going
anywhere because you weren't perfect for a second, Like you
need to like chill the fuck out, but not in
(30:19):
a way of like bitch, get the fuck away from me,
you know, right, So anyway, because it does go to
this root of abandonment, which we talk about in our
world now as all these like attachment styles, So that's
another way you can kind of identify and I used
to definitely identify as more of like an anxious attacher.
But anyway, so it doesn't The thing that's so interesting
(30:39):
about all this stuff is like we talk about it
and it's not like, oh, we just have it all
figured out and I'm doing it perfectly now. It's just
like the awareness helps you catch yourself in it and
then you get better at like not letting it go
so far or like if it happens again, you can
do something different within the next ten minutes, or you know,
like it just gets quicker. I guess are ever going
(31:00):
to be perfect?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But well I also think too.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
In terms of evolving as human beings, it's to get
that clarity and understanding about yourself will aid you in
that because you're gonna be different, like you said in
your twenties or thirties as you grow up.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We hope, I mean I know would hope.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yeah, But yeah, so I.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Did put into chat GBT. I thought this was kind
of funny because I was like, how does this affect
our day to day life? And what are some examples
of ways that this would like manifest in day to
day life for me chat? And I said, make them
funny and relatable, Yeah, because I love to make chat
roast us a little bit, you know. For dating, it
says a four goes on a great date, but instead
(31:48):
of just enjoying it, they spiral. Do they really get me?
What if they're only attracted to the surface version of
me huge dramatic journaling and playlist making after all? Yes,
absolutely exhausted by that. That's a friend doesn't reply for
a day, immediate assumption they had discovered I'm not special
when really the phone friend just left a phone in
their car. I mean, I don't know about the special piece,
(32:11):
but it's sort of like I could definitely go if
someone doesn't respond to me, I do take it personal,
like it does. It can hurt my feelings.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I don't do that anymore, but I definitely did that
when I was younger, like very much personalized that kind
of stuff. Boss gives constructive feedback and four hears it
as you're talentless. That one is mellentless. Okay, how about
this one post something authentic on social media, refreshes it
forty times thinking if no one likes it, does my
(32:40):
uniqueness even exist? I don't know if I resonate with
that either. But if I post something vulnerable, I have
to really check myself before I post it, because I'm like,
you're posting this for you, because if people don't validate it.
I used to in the like in the past, it
would send me spiraling about like I should have never
done that. That was like I just struggle and I
(33:02):
still struggle with social media for that reason of like
why am I doing this? Is it for me or
for other people? Or whatever? Like keeping that in check
for you. It's a dating you say yes to three
dates in the same week because what if which what
is one is the one, but then panics about scheduling overlaps.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I mean, that's pretty it's fair. It's pretty fair.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, well, I can see you like the what but
what it like really stressing out about if you met
let's say you met two because three feels extreme, but
like you met two guys and you were like, but
what if, like I have to schedule both of these
because what if one of them? Like I don't want
to miss out?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Right now, That's exactly the way I think.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, friendship, it says a friend suggest a quiet weekend
and you seven immediately proposes. Or we could go to
a concert, go to the lake and try this new
restaurant in one day.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'd be down.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, you are down. You're doing that's all. You're living
your life right now. Work gets assigned one project, instantly
distracted by five new better ideas they want to pitch,
ends up overwhelmed with tabs open on their laptop.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Ugh, I'm not even gonna I could share a screenshot
right now?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Is that there's so many that I like, they all
don't even fit on the screen at this point.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, that one I thought was actually a productive feedback
thing for you, because your job actually does call for
you to do a million different things at once. That
is like kind of the nature of your job. But
also understanding how your brain works. From the stuff I
was reading and knowing it is important for you to
focus on not overextending and kind of like finding a
(34:46):
rhythm to your right crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I often will catch myself and I'll say out loud
to myself while I'm working, like, finish what you were
just doing.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, you know, like just finish that.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
That's good though, because that's awareness about it, because that
is probably something you'll battle travel, it says Books of
Trips spends the whole time researching what they could be
doing next time vacations from their vacation. I don't know.
I don't know. I feel like when you travel and stuff,
you're very present.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'm pretty present.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And I'm also really bad about like researching what I
could do, and I'm like, I want to book the
trip in the hotel and then just be there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, just be there. They did us together as our
dynamic together, it said Kelly. The Four Worries Chip doesn't
get her. Ship lightens the combo with a joke about
planning three vacations. I mean, Kelly dives into the emotional
emotional meaning of an argument. Ship is halfway out the door,
(35:44):
ice cream run.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Shots fired.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I mean The funny thing is, though, this is why
we do the Friday podcast, because I get so serious
on the Wednesdays that I'm like, I do have a
lighter side, and I'm not sure that people see that
all the time when I'm doing the deep dives on Wednesday,
and so it's perfect the seven and four it's actually, yeah,
that's why we do this and that it actually really works,
(36:12):
like I need your seven ness to come bring the
side out of me too. The last one says Kelly
wants to feel it all, Chip wants to avoid feeling
trapped by it. Q comedy gold when you compare those instincts, well, thanks. Anyway,
there are ways we can both, you know, work through it.
And I think like if you're listening and you know
your number or you're relating to one of the things
(36:33):
we're saying. One tip that I would say is either
on chat, GBT or Google, Like you can google what
are some tools to work with my enneagram numbers fear,
and it'll print out some specific ways that target your
specific core fear. So I did that for us. Mine
is practice radical self acceptance, which I really do work
(36:55):
on with affirmations and things like that. I do that
every morning. So that actually makes a lot of sense
and it's really really helped me. If any other fours
are listening, create structure for feelings, journaling, therapy, and creative
outlets to process them. Stay present with gratitude. I posted
about this on Instagram last week. Did you know that
you cannot feel gratitude and anxiety at the same time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yes, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Did I tell you that or did you know that?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think I learned it on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Oh, we may have talked about it.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I feel like we've mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, yeah, But I posted it on Instagram because that
was something a mentor taught me years ago. And I
would call her and I would just be crying and
I'm like so upset. It was when I was going
through a really hard time from one of these relationships
we were discussing, and I would be just spiraling, like
in the anxiety of you know, trying to figure it
out or ruminate or whatever, and she was like, stop,
stop what you're doing, and she wouldn't let me speak anymore,
(37:49):
and she would say, tell me five things that you're
grateful for, and oh, I love that. Yeah, And so
then I would even sometimes I was like I could,
you know, it was so down that it was hard
to think of them. And it's like, but do you
have a roof over your head? Do you have food
in your refrigerator? And it's like the simple things that
you and I probably forget about on a day to
day sometimes, like the fact that we can walk, you know,
(38:11):
like those basic things that when you really start to
think about it, you're like, Okay, no matter what I
actually do, still have a lot to be grateful for.
So anyway, that was a good tip for if you
ever feel overwhelmed with anxieties, write down five things you're
grateful for. Lean into community. I do that sharing vulnerably
and safe relationships. That really helps me too. Community is
very important to me. For you, Chip, do you want
(38:33):
some tips?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Sure, Yeah, this.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
One's going to be tough for you.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Commit to stillness. Meditation, breath work, or even just sitting
quietly for five minutes helps build tolerance for being without doing.
I thought that was huge. It teaches a seven that
boredom and stillness isn't dangerous. So even if you did
five minutes a day, like right now, what are you
(38:57):
doing emailing or texting while we do this right now.
He's laughing when it cut of out.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
It's true, It's true.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You know. It's funny. I had when I started my
new morning routine.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
I had breath work and meditation in there, and I've
fallen off, but it was definitely like it's one of
those things that I need to like add back into
my mornings for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, even five minutes, I thought, that's good.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It always shocks me how short five minutes is fast.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
It goes real fast.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah, practice conscious limiting. Instead of saying yes to everything,
seven's can intentionally choose one experience, savor it and see
that depth brings more satisfaction than scattering energy.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, Like, instead of responding to your text wow we record,
you could just try to be present. You could try.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I don't know, you could try. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
And you know what's funny too, is I'm always so
impressed by people they can do two things at once
really clearly in my brain, it's very hard for me
to do it.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
My boyfriend is the same way, and he's always like,
we'll be on the phone. It's such a similar experience
to this podcast for me. So I can tell this
second he starts doing it, but like, he is a filmmaker,
so he's editing stuff while we're talking, and he says
that it's mindless for him and he can do it,
and I'm like, I know you think that.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
You're like what did I just say? Then?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Literally I would be pouring my heart out. I finally
have learned if it's something important to me, I have
to say, hey, I really need you to focus while
we're talking right now, like this is here, I need
you to hear me on this one. We're just like
shooting the shit. I don't care as much. But like
the difference between if I have a phone conversation with
him while he's like out on a walk, or if
(40:44):
I have one with him when he's at his house
to where he can be sitting in front of his computer.
It's so insanely different because when he's walking, he's just
focused on talking to me.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Anyway, most men that I know are not good at
doing more than one thing at a time.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Just FYI, that's funny because most of my friends are females,
so it's like I'm around people who are more capable
of doing that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, women's brains work different that way. Though, yeah, feel
the feelings. That's another one for you. Naming emotions as
they arise. Sadness, grief, anger keeps a seven from bypassing
with busyness. So therapy, embodiment practices, or even voice notes.
So that's an interesting thought to, like, just make yourself
say it out loud onto a voice note if you
(41:27):
are going through something okay and then ground in the present.
Sevenths are always scanning the horizon using mindfulness cues. Right
now I have enough like saying something like that helps
anchor them to the present moment, reducing anxiety about missing out.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I think I could I think.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Why are you so distracted today? What is happening?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I'm not distracted right now.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I could see your fingers. You think I'm not looking
at your fingers are here? Well, I feel like you're
living in the seven right now, and it's making me
very four.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's making you feel very.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Really very abandoned.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Abandoned that's the word that I wanted.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Anyway. This is just a fun, kind of tangible way
to help you, guys, apply the conversation from Wednesday into
your life if you want to. I always want to
know about that. So if you guys, do do this,
or if you're an Enneagram number like Chip or I
or something different and you have a different experience with
the core fears, let us know how it works for
you. You can always email us at the Edge at velvet
(42:32):
edge dot com. You can also hit me up in
my DMS. I'm at Velvet Edge.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Chip, I'm at Chip Doors. It's Chip d r sch.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
We also have our Instagram for our podcast at Velvet
Edge Podcast. And I want to put everything else that
we have TikTok's YouTube all that in the description of
this podcast, because it is way too much of a
mouthful for me to keep saying every time. I can't
remember it. Y'all know how my brain works. I can
barely remember the ending of this. Anyway, As you guys
(43:02):
go into the weekend and you're living on the edge,
I hope you always remember too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Back casual, Bye bye,
Oh, well, we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We are back.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Huh did we record last week or we did a
repeat last week? Didn't we?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We recorded twice in a week, recorded two in one week,
so we did not.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh no, no, last week wasn't It wasn't. You're right,
it was not a repeat that was the week before,
because it was it was about female orgasms, and you
were like, yeah, I got nothing on this one, pie.
This is not my area of expertise, right, right, right,
fair enough, fair enough. Well, we're back and I haven't
spoken to you in a while. We've both been traveling
(00:46):
so that we're a little bit discombobulated with each other.
But we're here this week. I'm actually really excited about
this topic to do this with you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You seem thrilled, Well, let me clue listeners. And so
I recently, I've had multiple areas and I was just
explaining this to you too. I have multiple areas in
my life where this topic it just keeps appearing, you know,
like that'll happen. So, like you and I have been
having certain conversations my boyfriend and I, a friend and
I another friend and I have had conversations and core
(01:19):
fears just keeps coming up. And it's interesting because I've
had some experiences of going through like tricky situations and
I'll watch myself react to them, and it's kind of
surprising me sometimes, like how it's impacting me, you know,
like I'm just always kind of curious or staying curious
about responses to things. And so it kind of brought
(01:39):
me back to, Oh, man, I wonder, like I feel
a little scared right now. This like fear is coming
up and it's driving me and getting acquainted again with
part of my enneagram number, because each enneagram number comes
with a fear, like a core fear. And so anyway,
I've done a podcast about this before and I was like,
I got to repost this one. It was so good.
(02:00):
It's with my friend Katie guffstas Gus stuff Son. Her
last name's little tricky for me. Yeah, but she is
a therapist here in Nashville, and she uses the enneagram
and her practice like very it's a big, big, heavy
part of her practice. And so she's come on the
podcast a couple times and we do conversations about the
different layers of enneagram, you know, it's one of those
(02:21):
personality tests that has like all these different factors so
you can learn the basics, same as astrology. It's like
you learn the basics and then there's more to learn,
like you're never done learning about it basically. And so
she and I really dove into the core fears that
drive each number. There's nine numbers on the zodiac, I
mean the zodiac. I'm getting them confused. There's nine numbers
on Oh my good lord.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
If this weren't confusing enough for me, and now you're
mixing them up, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
God, sorry. It reminds me of astrology in a lot
of ways. And when you learn your number on an
endeagram chart or like in an enneagram practice, I am
confusing to when you start learning about your astrological chart,
there's so much over you know, like, and that's kind
of what you end up getting to when you do
any of these modalities, they all are essentially saying the
(03:06):
same thing. This is even how I started to feel
about like spirituality and religion, Like essentially most things are
saying the same things. It's just what helps you understand it.
Like for different people, I feel like different modalities are
just easier to digest or they really speak to them,
they really get into them. So that's why I'm just
like always wanting to present all of them here. And
(03:27):
I am such a nerd that I like learning about
most of.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Them right right, The enneagram definitely makes the most sense
to me, even though I don't have a like a
deep understanding of the numbers. But like it's personality driven,
and I mean it doesn't feel like it's an active choice,
but because it's based.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
On the way that you develop as a child and.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Right, and your personality is created, I can wrap my
head around that, Like where Venus is in some cycle
with moons and shit like that, I like feel like
I'll never it's.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Just too much. Yeah, I mean, I think when we
start talking about astrology sometimes your brain shuts down if
I start speaking about the planets or the placement or whatever,
and so you're more into the why or what it
makes you do the personality part of it, like you said,
And because when we talk about astrology and I'm explaining
to you the energy behind things, you do get more
(04:22):
interested in that totally, like what's driving you all of
those things? But the actual planetary alignment?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Does you start talking about houses and planets and rings
and all the things.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm like, you lost me.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, only the nerds like that. H So Katie and
as conversation really broke down like each number's core fear
and I was bringing this to you and you were like, well,
should you surprise me with mine? And I'm like, no,
this is way too in. It's such a seven. So
let's tell the listeners. First of all, you are an
idiogram seven, I'm an endeogram four. And if you know
(04:55):
anything about the enneagram, that probably makes complete sense to you,
because we are very much each of our numbers. If
you don't know anything about the enneagram, hopefully this conversation
will inspire you maybe to just go take the test
and learn about yourself and your number. Because what I
tell people is once you know this kind of stuff,
you start applying it to all places of your life.
(05:17):
So because people are like why do I care, you know,
like I don't care what number I am, and I'm
like no, it can actually really help you within your relationships.
It can really help you at work and how you
deal with people. It can help you knowing what you
want to do with your life, like it helps with
so much more than you ever could anticipate once you
start understanding it, and.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
This helps you understand yourself. And because there's so much
that we do that we don't understand the choices that
we make or why we fall into certain patterns and
all this, and the understanding that you can get from
the enneagram is like it doesn't give you license to
just do whatever, but it gives you understanding to be like, oh,
(05:57):
that's why I do that all the time, or like
that's why I'm drawn to this. It just gives you clarity.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, and core fear is a huge part of that
because it's driving every decision that we make, and if
you're doing it unconsciously, it's something that you don't know
about driving every decision that you make. Like, wouldn't you
want to just know why you're making the decisions you
are so that you can be more conscious about what
you even decide.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, especially if.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You feel like you make a lot of bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, I think we don't necessarily even know sometimes that
we're making a bad I don't even know if there's
bad or good decisions, but like if we're making a
decision that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
We've definitely made some bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, but they're always learning. So that's like why I say,
that's like, you make these bad decisions quote unquote, but
then you learn some lesson from it. So it's wasn't
it worth it? Isn't that what life's all about? You
know what I mean? But there's these driving forces, and
if it's coming from a place of fear or insecurity
or anything like that, it might not actually be what
(06:56):
we truly want or desire, and so we're just trying
to survive. And so that's the point of understanding kind
of these core fears that are driving you, so that
when you are making a decision, you're going, is this
my fear driving me? Is this real? Are these like
are these fears real? Or are these things from my
(07:17):
childhood that I'm thinking or happening that are just not
even actually happening. So anyway, I feel like we've done
the dissecting of why we're having this conversation, and I
want to kind of just get into it because we
have a lot to unpack. So, as I said, I'm
an enneagram for you're an enneagram seven. And first of all,
the enneagram seven is called the enthusiast, which is like
nothing sums you up more because you're always pretty much
(07:42):
in a good mood, Like I really can't feel I
cannot remember any if not, I mean definitely not many
times where you've been in a bad mood, right, I don't.
I can't think of it.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And I'm always down for fun.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Well you're always down? Yes, So your biggest core fear
that you will be deprived, trapped, limited, or suffer pain,
especially like emotional pain. Do all these things in your
life to avoid those things?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Did that feel right to you?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah? I mean it's it talks about.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I mean, there's obviously various innumerable ways that you could
become that you know on the explanation that you had
sent me from Katie's website, like it says, it's often
from you know, a difficult relationship with a parental figure,
normally maternal, but it also can be paternal if someone's
overbearing or dominant. Mean, my mother is just like me,
(08:41):
but she was those things she was she was just
had very she was strict, she had strict rules. Plus,
I mean, I don't know that this came into play
in full awareness as a young child, but like.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Being gay, my soul had to have known.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I didn't realize it yet, so I'm sure that there
was something. And then I mean there were definitely times
in my life that I can remember that it was
something that I was actively hiding. Even as a young child,
like fourth fifth grade, I was aware of it. So
I think those fears, you know, like that became a
core fear too. Also, I didn't want to be excluded,
you know, I didn't want.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
To be othered.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And obviously having come out doesn't play as big a role.
But I also I'm not the type of person that
walks into a room full of strangers waving a gay
pride flag either, you know, I just am myself, like
if it comes up, it's great, Or if I'm in
a relationship and I'm there with my significant other who
happens to be a man, I don't shy away from it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I'm not like this is my roommate, you know, my
special friend, right. My mom likes to say.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But you know, I'm not like a flag bearer, And
I think that probably has to do something with this
core fear as well, you know, like that fear of rejection.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I probably like suppression, yeah, of your truth, because even
what you're saying about like I don't think that your
parents meant to do this, but because of their beliefs
or how they were brought up or whatever, the piece
of you that was gay feeling like you needed to
suppress that and it wasn't fully accepted even still, like
when you said your mom calls it your special friend.
(10:17):
That's not full acceptance. And so there's something in you
that could probably take that as criticism in a way
and try to avoid that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, And I think for them and me, it was environmental.
They were just weren't gay people around. They didn't know
gay people. I didn't know gay people, and I think
that's just a small town thing.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Now there's gay people on television and people are a
lot more educated. So younger parents are probably different that
are in the same small.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Towns or just a different level of exposure. But yeah,
it was an unknown so I was scared of it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, it's so weird with the enneagram. I asked Katie this,
and I don't remember if it was this podcast or
another podcast we've done, but you had said something about
like it comes from when you're younger, and so I
did ask her, is this nature versus nurture? Because it's
so some of it feels very much like you probably
just came into the world that way to some degree,
(11:10):
and then some of it feels learned. And she said
it's probably both, like, yeah, we're a little more apt
to go a certain way with certain numbers, Like I
was probably never going to be a seven, you know,
no matter what my upbringing was, but I might have
been a two or something else, and then there were
different factors that pushed me more into the flour. I
don't know. That's the best that I can make sense
(11:31):
of it, at least.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Because it's so personality driven, Like I think there are
things I do think personality is a combination of the two,
like yeah, I think yeah, And there are things that genetically,
I can tell you the personality pieces of myself that
came from my mother, But then there are personality pieces
of myself that I developed because of core fears or
(11:55):
whatever those influences were. But I am way too much
like like my mom to not rule out nature, you know.
And then I'm different enough from my mom that I
can't rule out nurture either, because I have been nurtured
by more people on you know, than just my mom.
So I do think like in terms of the shape
(12:18):
of my personality, my overall personality, it's both.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, did you read the parts? So when I was
looking at how the fears might show up in your life,
it's as constant seeking of new experiences, options and stimulation
to avoid boredom, pain or missing out, avoidance of emotional depths.
Difficult feelings are long term commitment because those can feel
limiting over commitment, scattering their energy across too many projects,
(12:44):
relationships or ideas, impulsivity or fomo driving decisions. I know
when I was reading it, I was like, this is ship.
This is ship, this is ship. Difficulties staying present in
the moment because their mind is already wanted, possibility chat
if chat.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, it's like it's wild. It's wild to like just
hear it put into words, because and I'm not embarrassed
by any of those things.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I'm just like, holy shit, how does.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It know summing you up so clearly? Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And the funny thing is, if like that was put
into my horoscope in whatever ways, I'd be like bingo,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Like, yeah, I mean That's why I'm saying it does
usually carry over. It's just different ways to talk about
it all. But I do think that that fear of
like I see you doing a lot where you bounce
from thing to thing to think to thing, and there's
not a lot of downtime. I definitely know you have fomo,
like you do not want to miss out on one
(13:45):
fun time. You'll be running on so many fumes sometimes
and you just.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Like straight from the plane still, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Straight from the plane onto the next, onto the next.
I'm like, oh my god, are you about to turn fifty,
because like not forty three year old ass cannot You're like,
I'm a bet at nah a last night I was
a thirty Yeah, So yeah, I don't know how you
do it. Sometimes now it started to make me ask,
do you want to be doing all those things? Or
is it your fear driving you in some way?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I mean that's a really good question. Like I think
it's probably a combination of both. I definitely have the
older I get like learned to say no to the
things I really don't want to do, but there's a
lot that I want to do. So I still probably
do too much. And I definitely know that I do
more than most people in terms of just like having fun.
Like last night, I went to two concerts last night.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But I didn't ask you why you seem so tired today?
So that makes total sense.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Got looking like you're dragging ass.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
It was, and I've been like I've been crushing orc today,
but I yeah, I went and saw the Black Crows
last night at a private television taping and left that
and went and saw to the Wetsprocket at the Ryeman.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I tell you, the parking gods were on my side.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I got the parking so I right in front of
the Ryeman as I pulled up, went right in saw
the show. It's been so long since I've done that,
So that's just I give you that as an example,
because I still have the energy to do the things
that I want to do. But if it's something that
I'm like, I don't want to do that, Like I'm
skipping an event tonight that I thought I would want
to do, but I don't want to do it. But
I do think some of it is fear driven, like
(15:19):
especially when it comes to like time with my friends,
like I don't want to like not be part of
that moment and that history or miss out on the
conversations and all the things. But I also really love
spending time with my friends, So I would never want
my friends to think that I'm there just because I'm
scared of missing out, you know. Yeah, but I think
that that probably plays a role in it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, it's really interesting to think about and then to
think about like the relationship piece. As far as romantic relationship,
I've never known you to not be good at commitment.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In my last relationship, like I felt like very in it,
like felt like there was a future, but it was
also it's also hard for me to see that future like,
oh my god, well what happens when we start talking
about like where we're going to live?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know, like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Those conversations scare me because I would much rather it
just feel like it feels right now.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh that's interesting. Yeah, I'm obviously taking notes because my
boyfriend's seven as well.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, So I think if you want to have those
conversations with a seven years, yeah, yeah, you have to
start them because a seven is happy in the moment,
then the future doesn't matter because that's exactly what you want,
is that happiness?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yes? Yes, but I you know, it's funny too.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Because when we decided this was the conversation we're going
to have, I like I wanted to like dig into
the idea of fear as a positive thing, Like what
are some of the positive things? And it's funny too,
because it's like, you know, fear because of a feel
of failure, Like I'm you know, it breeds creativity and
motivation for sure. Yeah, you know there's so many like
(17:07):
good things, you know, a shared fear. Like another example
that I got was, like, I mean COVID is a
great example, like people can come together when there's like
a collective fear so that you overcome something. If we
weren't all scared of COVID, then we would have never
figured out how to get past that plague.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh you are hitting on a hot button though.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I know, and I'm not just talking about vaccines here,
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Like no, but a lot of I think there were
the people who were really scared of COVID, and then
there were the people who were like this is not real.
So we saw the way that fear can impact so
many different things. And I think we still are seeing
that in our society on a bigger scale, which is
a whole nother conversation, But how much we've talked about this,
how much like media uses fear, how much is actopamin
(17:55):
hit and how we're all kind of addicted to fear now.
And to your point, I do think that half the
reason I've gotten any of the stuff in my younger
days was this like fear of failure, like I need
I worked so hard and then I burnt out and
that collapse and like so I think what I'm realizing
at this age, and I'm sure it'll change and evolve
(18:17):
many times for the rest of my life, but like
right now, my feeling on it is a little dose
of fear is good, like you said, like it can
light a fire under your ass. And also it's just human,
like we're just gonna have that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean we're not.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I think we're at the top of the food chain
because of fear. Like course, it ignites like our yeah,
it ignites our survival. It like gives us adrenaline, and
it's all the things like if we weren't scared of anything,
we would have been eaten by the wolves.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I would just not get out of bed, and I
would do it. I wanted to every day, you know,
like I don't. Yeah, it would change the way we
do life for sure, And so like a little dose
of or I think just accepting that it is a
part of life and that it will be there and
present at some point is staying in reality. And also
(19:03):
I think it's good to be aware of it and
how much of your life it's driving, because if it's
driving all of your life, you're probably operating in survival mode,
which is what I was doing for so long, which
will ultimately always crash from inside the Yeah, and you're
not going to be happy, You're not gonna probably be
living your truth. So that was the whole point of
(19:24):
these conversations was sort of like, Okay, just to have
it in check, because there is so much with fear
right now in our world, and there is actually so
much happening, and also so much is being manipulated and
played up for us to stay in fear. So it's
like it's just this big cycle of fear right now.
So I think it's good to understand what really triggers
(19:46):
you into that so that you can operate from a
more informed place with yourself and so it doesn't get
out of hand, and you can also.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
How to deflect that like manufactured fear like that the
media does our government is using right now. Like it
is really easy to get into a scroll doom no
matter what side of like a dun Yeah, a doom
scroll was what I'm at. Sorry, maybe I am tired
(20:16):
and I'm saying like on either side of the aisle,
it doesn't matter where you are, like, because your algorithm
knows what you feel, and it's really easy to get
in there and just feel like the world is ending,
and then you are You've been captured by the fear.
And this isn't to say don't scroll, because I think
it's important to be informed on your position, but I
(20:36):
think it's more important to recognize when you're being manipulated
by fear, and it is healthy to put it down
and be like, I got to get.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Away from this.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Like even if you feel really strongly that these important
things that you're learning, you have to approach them from
a standpoint that is healthy for you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And that's different for everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I mean, it's like everything in life, right, if
it goes to the extremes, it's probably going to become
a problem in your life. That's just like moderation, as
boring as it sounds is like so sexy to me.
Now in life, it's just like it because if someone
knows how to live in moderation and just like so
you can enjoy life. You can enjoy the good and
(21:21):
you can also understand that there's other things happening too,
so you're not in denial, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Can you eat cheese?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
No? I mean I'll do a little.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, You're like, okay, I'll live through. I'll live through
the pain.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Look, I want to eat cheese, but yeah, like there's
certain you know, just a little dose of things cause
you the pain. That's cheese is the perfect example. I
cannot eat a lot of it or I'll be in
bed for three days, right, Okay, Well so mine. It's
funny because the enneagram four has like four names, which
is probably fair because we have a lot of emotions.
(21:54):
So it can be called the individualist, the romantic, or
the creative is where what I've seen it set out
And my biggest core fear is feeling deficient, inadequate, insignificant,
or that I have no identity or special significance. And
that is so fucking true for me, is it not?
I mean, did you read mine and go? Because I
(22:15):
read yours, and I was like, well, this is chip.
Did you read mine and say that yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You know, there were some things because I'm going to
read the one that I read so word for word
because some of it feels a little extreme for you.
But I also think it's a lot nail on it.
Type four right, it's four right, yeah. Type four fear
fear being deficient and ultimately rejected or abandoned. Many fours
(22:42):
describe an early, actual or perceived experience of loss of
love and as a result, abandonment or deprivation. The story
they make up in their head is that somehow they
caused this, so they spend a great deal of time
and energy focusing on how to somehow reverse this with
the ideal relateationship for situation, this normally always involves being
(23:04):
seen as special and unique. In the process, they can
become self absorbed, hot and cold, and chronically melancholic. And
so I've never thought you to be self absorbed.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, but I do.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Like the melancholic thing to me is the feeler. Like
I don't think that you're chronically sad, but I think
that you are chronically affected by feelings, And like the
relation the like trying to fix the relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
That you knew was broken that one. You see that
movie a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know, yeah, that's like my whole thirties basically.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
But it's like now looking back, like was that a
bad thing? No, that is just a piece of your personality.
So it's like, now you know the red flags to
look for.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Well, okay, so the relationship piece is a perfect because
you experienced it with me, This would be a really
interesting thing for me to get feedback from you on.
And I think what I would say when I was
reading through the whole four thing, I don't resonate with
all of it anymore of the negative parts of it.
But that's because hopefully as we get older, we're learning, maturing, growing,
(24:11):
evolving and so definitely and recognizing and like, if you
ask people who knew me in my twenties, I'm sure
I was some of the lower levels of the four
way more than I am now, you know what I mean, Like,
I think probably, or my hope would be that we've
grown through life and so you're kind of operating from
(24:31):
the higher level of each number at this stage of
life where you and I are, but with relationships, that's
the perfect example, because you're exactly right that I wouldn't
even know myself the relationship was not good for me
or good for the other person or working, but I
would just think I would What they said about taking
(24:52):
on the responsibility or thinking it was my fault was
so it. And so I ended up in relationships with
a lot of like highly people with high narcissistic traits
that would take advantage of that exact thing where it's like, oh, well,
she thinks she's defective, so I'm just gonna always shift
the blame back to her, and my like little wounded
(25:14):
self would be like, Okay, this is my fault, like
I gotta go fix this. And so I would try
all of these things and just continue to self abandon
over and over and over to keep the relationship alive
or to you know, quote unquote make the relationship work.
And then the more I did that, and the worst
it got over years of doing it with I mean,
(25:35):
like you said, it was different relationships even but it
was like it was a different face but the same
situation over and over and over until I like got
it finally to where like now in my relationship, when
things go wrong, like I don't personalize them, like I
will always take ownership for my shit, and I do that,
and if there's things I can work on, I will,
(25:56):
But like if something would go wrong or we would
break up, I wouldn't be like this is because I'm
defective or something like me Like that has shifted in
me and that has been a huge help in my
life and my relationships and my work. This same thing
can come up in my work like I used to
kill myself to make things happen, or I was such
(26:18):
a perfectionist that I couldn't even function sometimes because I
need or like you know, I wasn't sleeping and stuff
because I would need stuff to be perfect. And it's
from that same fear though that like not enough, Whereas
now if something happens, I can still go to it
for sure. I can definitely I went to it last week,
Like I had a couple of really bad days and
(26:38):
I was like, I suck. I should quit everything, you know,
just the typical like spiral that I do with myself,
and then I can get myself out of it. So
it's not perfect by any ways, but I can kind
of start to see things a little more clearly of
like no you're doing that thing again. You're personalizing stuff
that probably has nothing to do with you, or if
it does, like it's something that could be shift did
(27:00):
on a bigger scale, Like it's not just because I'm
not good enough or right right.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know, it's funny that the like ideal word in
the situation or in the in the piece that I
read that I thought was interesting is that when she
said so, they spend a great deal of time and
energy focusing on how to somehow reverse this with the
ideal relationship or situation. So it's almost like the fear
(27:27):
comes because you have deemed something ideal. Like I don't
even want to go into details because I think you
can look at.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Some of this. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Let's in terms of work, because I don't want to
make it relationship based.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Like if you're.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Like, this is the perfect client for me, I've always
wanted this client, and then.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Maybe it's not. But you've told yourself that it's ideal.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I mean, you're not both normal it will situation right, so.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And but that's what's funny because you're fighting it not
being ideal.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
But it starts to feel perfect for me.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, you're like and so I think once you can
recognize that, wait a minute, this is just not an
ideal situation, it's a lot easier to walk away from
it or fix what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And how many times have you seen me get stuck
on these loops of like the pain of losing that situation,
Like I get stuck on ship for years and I
know I do it now, but like I wasn't aware
that to me that would be like the label self absorbed,
Like I don't think mine ever is that I'm so selfish.
I can't think of other people. I'm constantly thinking of
(28:35):
other people. But when I get in this headspace where
I'm trying to figure out how to make something work
that's not meant for me, I'm so self fuss. It's
because I'm like just trying to figure it out, Like.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Well, you think you have the solution and that's self absorbed.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
People and powerful?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Who do I think I right? It is?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I mean I think a lot of people and I
don't know if this is only a four thing, but
I think that's the think A lot of people struggle
with that, Like we all want to be good enough
to like make anything better, and maybe it's not meant.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
To be better.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Maybe it's meant to be exactly the way that it is,
it's just not meant for you.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean. One of the things that still comes
up in my current relationship is like if I'm having
a bad day, like an off week, let's say, and
right now, what's happening, what happens for me is like
if I try really hard to something and something doesn't
go well, or like it could be anything, something happens
with a friend or my family or whatever, and it
weighs on me and I know I'm not operating from
(29:35):
my best place, and like he and I are in
a good place, but then I do something that is
like out of the other place that I'm I'm not
sure if I'm making sense, but like if I just
don't have a good reaction to something or whatever, I
can still get stuck on a loop of like, fuck,
that wasn't great, And even if I apologize, I'll almost
like find myself over compensating to like make sure he's
(29:58):
good that day. And I'm like, it's so good that
I'm in the relationship I'm in now because he's like, hey,
like it's good, it's okay. I love you. Like you
like he knows how to like calm me down out
of that to kind of be like I'm not going
anywhere because you weren't perfect for a second, Like you
need to like chill the fuck out, but not in
(30:19):
a way of like bitch, get the fuck away from me,
you know, right, So anyway, because it does go to
this root of abandonment, which we talk about in our
world now as all these like attachment styles, So that's
another way you can kind of identify and I used
to definitely identify as more of like an anxious attacher.
But anyway, so it doesn't The thing that's so interesting
(30:39):
about all this stuff is like we talk about it
and it's not like, oh, we just have it all
figured out and I'm doing it perfectly now. It's just
like the awareness helps you catch yourself in it and
then you get better at like not letting it go
so far or like if it happens again, you can
do something different within the next ten minutes, or you know,
like it just gets quicker. I guess are ever going
(31:00):
to be perfect?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But well I also think too.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
In terms of evolving as human beings, it's to get
that clarity and understanding about yourself will aid you in
that because you're gonna be different, like you said in
your twenties or thirties as you grow up.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
We hope, I mean I know would hope.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yeah, But yeah, so I.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Did put into chat GBT. I thought this was kind
of funny because I was like, how does this affect
our day to day life? And what are some examples
of ways that this would like manifest in day to
day life for me chat? And I said, make them
funny and relatable, Yeah, because I love to make chat
roast us a little bit, you know. For dating, it
says a four goes on a great date, but instead
(31:48):
of just enjoying it, they spiral. Do they really get me?
What if they're only attracted to the surface version of
me huge dramatic journaling and playlist making after all? Yes,
absolutely exhausted by that. That's a friend doesn't reply for
a day, immediate assumption they had discovered I'm not special
when really the phone friend just left a phone in
their car. I mean, I don't know about the special piece,
(32:11):
but it's sort of like I could definitely go if
someone doesn't respond to me, I do take it personal,
like it does. It can hurt my feelings.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I don't do that anymore, but I definitely did that
when I was younger, like very much personalized that kind
of stuff. Boss gives constructive feedback and four hears it
as you're talentless. That one is mellentless. Okay, how about
this one post something authentic on social media, refreshes it
forty times thinking if no one likes it, does my
(32:40):
uniqueness even exist? I don't know if I resonate with
that either. But if I post something vulnerable, I have
to really check myself before I post it, because I'm like,
you're posting this for you, because if people don't validate it.
I used to in the like in the past, it
would send me spiraling about like I should have never
done that. That was like I just struggle and I
(33:02):
still struggle with social media for that reason of like
why am I doing this? Is it for me or
for other people? Or whatever? Like keeping that in check
for you. It's a dating you say yes to three
dates in the same week because what if which what
is one is the one, but then panics about scheduling overlaps.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I mean, that's pretty it's fair. It's pretty fair.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, well, I can see you like the what but
what it like really stressing out about if you met
let's say you met two because three feels extreme, but
like you met two guys and you were like, but
what if, like I have to schedule both of these
because what if one of them? Like I don't want
to miss out?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Right now, That's exactly the way I think.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, friendship, it says a friend suggest a quiet weekend
and you seven immediately proposes. Or we could go to
a concert, go to the lake and try this new
restaurant in one day.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'd be down.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, you are down. You're doing that's all. You're living
your life right now. Work gets assigned one project, instantly
distracted by five new better ideas they want to pitch,
ends up overwhelmed with tabs open on their laptop.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Ugh, I'm not even gonna I could share a screenshot
right now?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Is that there's so many that I like, they all
don't even fit on the screen at this point.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, that one I thought was actually a productive feedback
thing for you, because your job actually does call for
you to do a million different things at once. That
is like kind of the nature of your job. But
also understanding how your brain works. From the stuff I
was reading and knowing it is important for you to
focus on not overextending and kind of like finding a
(34:46):
rhythm to your right crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I often will catch myself and I'll say out loud
to myself while I'm working, like, finish what you were
just doing.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, you know, like just finish that.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
That's good though, because that's awareness about it, because that
is probably something you'll battle travel, it says Books of
Trips spends the whole time researching what they could be
doing next time vacations from their vacation. I don't know.
I don't know. I feel like when you travel and stuff,
you're very present.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'm pretty present.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And I'm also really bad about like researching what I
could do, and I'm like, I want to book the
trip in the hotel and then just be there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, just be there. They did us together as our
dynamic together, it said Kelly. The Four Worries Chip doesn't
get her. Ship lightens the combo with a joke about
planning three vacations. I mean, Kelly dives into the emotional
emotional meaning of an argument. Ship is halfway out the door,
(35:44):
ice cream run.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Shots fired.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I mean The funny thing is, though, this is why
we do the Friday podcast, because I get so serious
on the Wednesdays that I'm like, I do have a
lighter side, and I'm not sure that people see that
all the time when I'm doing the deep dives on Wednesday,
and so it's perfect the seven and four it's actually, yeah,
that's why we do this and that it actually really works,
(36:12):
like I need your seven ness to come bring the
side out of me too. The last one says Kelly
wants to feel it all, Chip wants to avoid feeling
trapped by it. Q comedy gold when you compare those instincts, well, thanks. Anyway,
there are ways we can both, you know, work through it.
And I think like if you're listening and you know
your number or you're relating to one of the things
(36:33):
we're saying. One tip that I would say is either
on chat, GBT or Google, Like you can google what
are some tools to work with my enneagram numbers fear,
and it'll print out some specific ways that target your
specific core fear. So I did that for us. Mine
is practice radical self acceptance, which I really do work
(36:55):
on with affirmations and things like that. I do that
every morning. So that actually makes a lot of sense
and it's really really helped me. If any other fours
are listening, create structure for feelings, journaling, therapy, and creative
outlets to process them. Stay present with gratitude. I posted
about this on Instagram last week. Did you know that
you cannot feel gratitude and anxiety at the same time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yes, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Did I tell you that or did you know that?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think I learned it on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Oh, we may have talked about it.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I feel like we've mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, yeah, But I posted it on Instagram because that
was something a mentor taught me years ago. And I
would call her and I would just be crying and
I'm like so upset. It was when I was going
through a really hard time from one of these relationships
we were discussing, and I would be just spiraling, like
in the anxiety of you know, trying to figure it
out or ruminate or whatever, and she was like, stop,
stop what you're doing, and she wouldn't let me speak anymore,
(37:49):
and she would say, tell me five things that you're
grateful for, and oh, I love that. Yeah, And so
then I would even sometimes I was like I could,
you know, it was so down that it was hard
to think of them. And it's like, but do you
have a roof over your head? Do you have food
in your refrigerator? And it's like the simple things that
you and I probably forget about on a day to
day sometimes, like the fact that we can walk, you know,
(38:11):
like those basic things that when you really start to
think about it, you're like, Okay, no matter what I
actually do, still have a lot to be grateful for.
So anyway, that was a good tip for if you
ever feel overwhelmed with anxieties, write down five things you're
grateful for. Lean into community. I do that sharing vulnerably
and safe relationships. That really helps me too. Community is
very important to me. For you, Chip, do you want
(38:33):
some tips?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Sure, Yeah, this.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
One's going to be tough for you.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Commit to stillness. Meditation, breath work, or even just sitting
quietly for five minutes helps build tolerance for being without doing.
I thought that was huge. It teaches a seven that
boredom and stillness isn't dangerous. So even if you did
five minutes a day, like right now, what are you
(38:57):
doing emailing or texting while we do this right now.
He's laughing when it cut of out.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
It's true, It's true.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You know. It's funny. I had when I started my
new morning routine.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
I had breath work and meditation in there, and I've
fallen off, but it was definitely like it's one of
those things that I need to like add back into
my mornings for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, even five minutes, I thought, that's good.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It always shocks me how short five minutes is fast.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
It goes real fast.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah, practice conscious limiting. Instead of saying yes to everything,
seven's can intentionally choose one experience, savor it and see
that depth brings more satisfaction than scattering energy.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, Like, instead of responding to your text wow we record,
you could just try to be present. You could try.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I don't know, you could try. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
And you know what's funny too, is I'm always so
impressed by people they can do two things at once
really clearly in my brain, it's very hard for me
to do it.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
My boyfriend is the same way, and he's always like,
we'll be on the phone. It's such a similar experience
to this podcast for me. So I can tell this
second he starts doing it, but like, he is a filmmaker,
so he's editing stuff while we're talking, and he says
that it's mindless for him and he can do it,
and I'm like, I know you think that.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
You're like what did I just say? Then?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Literally I would be pouring my heart out. I finally
have learned if it's something important to me, I have
to say, hey, I really need you to focus while
we're talking right now, like this is here, I need
you to hear me on this one. We're just like
shooting the shit. I don't care as much. But like
the difference between if I have a phone conversation with
him while he's like out on a walk, or if
(40:44):
I have one with him when he's at his house
to where he can be sitting in front of his computer.
It's so insanely different because when he's walking, he's just
focused on talking to me.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Anyway, most men that I know are not good at
doing more than one thing at a time.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Just FYI, that's funny because most of my friends are females,
so it's like I'm around people who are more capable
of doing that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, women's brains work different that way. Though, yeah, feel
the feelings. That's another one for you. Naming emotions as
they arise. Sadness, grief, anger keeps a seven from bypassing
with busyness. So therapy, embodiment practices, or even voice notes.
So that's an interesting thought to, like, just make yourself
say it out loud onto a voice note if you
(41:27):
are going through something okay and then ground in the present.
Sevenths are always scanning the horizon using mindfulness cues. Right
now I have enough like saying something like that helps
anchor them to the present moment, reducing anxiety about missing out.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I think I could I think.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Why are you so distracted today? What is happening?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I'm not distracted right now.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I could see your fingers. You think I'm not looking
at your fingers are here? Well, I feel like you're
living in the seven right now, and it's making me
very four.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's making you feel very.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Really very abandoned.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Abandoned that's the word that I wanted.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Anyway. This is just a fun, kind of tangible way
to help you, guys, apply the conversation from Wednesday into
your life if you want to. I always want to
know about that. So if you guys, do do this,
or if you're an Enneagram number like Chip or I
or something different and you have a different experience with
the core fears, let us know how it works for
you. You can always email us at the Edge at velvet
(42:32):
edge dot com. You can also hit me up in
my DMS. I'm at Velvet Edge.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Chip, I'm at Chip Doors. It's Chip d r sch.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
We also have our Instagram for our podcast at Velvet
Edge Podcast. And I want to put everything else that
we have TikTok's YouTube all that in the description of
this podcast, because it is way too much of a
mouthful for me to keep saying every time. I can't
remember it. Y'all know how my brain works. I can
barely remember the ending of this. Anyway, As you guys
(43:02):
go into the weekend and you're living on the edge,
I hope you always remember too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Back casual, Bye bye,
Host
Kelly Henderson
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