November 14, 2025 • 31 mins
Society talks endlessly about having kids — but no one really talks about not having them. This week, Kelly and Chip open up about what it’s like to live a child-free life in a world that still expects everyone to follow the same script.
They talk about the pressure to become parents, the guilt and judgment that comes with choosing a different path, the surprising joys of child-free life, and the emotional nuance that no one ever acknowledges. From identity and purpose to societal expectations and double standards, this is a real, honest conversation about a lifestyle that’s more common than people admit — but rarely discussed.
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HOSTS:
Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Chip Dorsch // @chipdorsch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Happy belated birthday, Chipper, thank you. How was your actual birthday?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It was really good. It was pretty chill. I have
already felt very celebrated. I still have text messages to
respond to the Instagram messages.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yeah so, but no, it was good.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It was just a regular workday, and then I had
dinner with a couple of friends.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Were you in this office on your my fake office?
If anybody is watching on YouTube, Chip is still stuck
in this fake Zoom office in Camp Rock.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I cannot figure it out. This is also weird.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Look, I just noticed that if I go behind the microphone,
it looks like a point.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, why does your mic disappear into the wall.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I have no idea, because it's not moving.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, that is really bizarre. I don't even know. For
the people listening, I'm sorry, but Chip was just in
some weird alternative universe. It's odd.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I put it for those who didn't hear me bitching
about it. Last week, I put a virtual background on
my Zoom and I cannot get it. And I'm like,
it's driving me crazy because I'm not a dummy and
I can figure these things out, and I'm doing exactly
what I'm supposed to be doing, but it's not working,
and so I'm like stuck with his background until.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's also a funny background for you because it's so
not you, Like, it's a very corporate looking office building
that's beautiful, but just not at all like your life.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Right, not at all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It kind of looks like our offices in Los Angeles
and my coworker, this is kind of what his background
looks like. And I did it as a joke to him,
and now I'm stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
No jokes on me.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's what you get. Maybe he wants mercury retro good
retrograde finishes. You'll be able to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, I hope.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Anyway, this week on the podcast, I had fertility expert
Rachel Swanson on and Chip and I were talking and
I was like, I don't know what we're going to
talk about because the topic is fertility, and I'm just like,
I'm a person who had an unsuccessful fertility journey. You're
a gay man, Like, what are we going to talk about?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, we're clearly the experts.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
On the topic exactly, And so you go, what if
we talk about not having kids? And it was so
so simple that it shook me.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, I mean like like, oh my god, I love
that idea. And I was like, wow, Well.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Because if you really think about it, nobody talks about
not having kids except I will say, Chelsea Handler, maybe
she is really funny about it. She'll make really funny
videos of things that she does as a woman in
her fifties without children, and they're laugh out loud funny,
like she's always like smoking weed at eight am, and
you know, but it's basically like she's like, I'm living
my life. I'm doing whatever I want at all times.
(02:50):
And I kind of just like that she owns it,
which I thought was really good. But but I do
think it's a really important conversation to have because we
kind of have this like one fits all mentality about this,
and it's not discussed that there are other options, and
it's not that other people aren't living different ways or
not having kids, but we just don't talk about it
(03:12):
when there's no children involved. We only talk about it
when there's parenting and children involved. Have you noticed that?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I don't know. We just have this like very boxed
in view, I think, and so obviously on this podcast
we talk often about everyone being on their own specific
journey and different journeys, and that everybody's here for different reasons.
And so I'm like, how have we not talked about
this part of it, like what it looks like to
not have children as an adult. I'm forty three, you
(03:43):
just turn fifty. Either of us have kids, right, So
we actually do know about this topic.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And we do know about this side of the topic.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, And it's funny because I, in my gut, no
I would be a great parent. Wheish she would be
a great parent, and I've wanted to be, but I
never it was never a be all end all for me.
Like my sister, all she ever wanted to be was
a mom, you know, like is she wanted to be
a mom so bad? And you know, as a gay
(04:13):
man like I, there is no accidents for me to
end up with a kid. My sister's first kid was
an oopsie date. Like she you know, got pregnant very
early accidentally, and because she was I think thirty six,
she her first kid. She had sort of late in life,
and she was all of her friends had kids at
(04:34):
that point, and she was like, I'm keeping this baby,
you know, whether we stay together or not. So I
don't think it was the accident that she made it
out to be. I think it was probably pretty calculated.
But I bring that up because there are you know,
there are some I mean, in fact, I was an
accidental pregnancy. My parents wanted to have another kid, but
they weren't planning to have one that early. So but
(04:55):
that piece of the equation does not exist in my world.
So there was never a chance that I could accidentally have.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
A kid except for oh, I see what you're saying, college, right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And thank god I didn't at that point. Life would
be very different if.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Your girlfriend from outback steakhouse i'd gotten knocked up. Yeah,
oh my god. Well it's interesting because I told you that,
you know, like I was in a similar way. I
was never the young girl that dreamed of being a mother.
Like I definitely had those friends who were like, I
want to get married and I want to get have
a kid, and like planned it out. I think I
(05:32):
started thinking that I wanted that because I'm from the
Deep South, like in Louisiana, that's what everyone does, you know,
And I just kept feeling like in my life, I'm
not ready yet, but I will want to and I
will get there and whatever. And so then I got
into my late thirties and we talked about this on
the podcast Wednesday. But when you when you turn thirty five,
(05:52):
like as a girl, you go to the Guano every
year for your annual you know, and when you turn
thirty five. I just remember my kind of like sitting
down on her stool and she like slides in front
of me, and she it was this very like tense
kind of feeling in the room, and she was like,
have you thought about if you want to have children
or not? And I was like, oh, yeah, you know,
maybe one day, whenever the time's right. And she was like, well,
(06:15):
at this stage where you are in life right now,
at thirty five, if you got pregnant, it would be
considered high risk because it would be a geriatric pregnancy.
I'm like, geriatric. Yeah, they need to rethink it, because
it's just like geriatric I associate with like being way
later in life when I need to wear adult diapers
(06:37):
and like, you know, I can't function, Yes, but like
thirty five is still very young, and so it just
doesn't really dawn on you. But I swear to God,
it's something about like the second someone tells you might
not have the option anymore. The panic sets in, you know,
and you probably had a different experience with this because
(06:57):
you might have had to grapple with this like way
earlier in life than I did. But at that point
I was like, wait, what, like it might be taken
off the table, and then all of a sudden, you
just have this urgency of like, Okay, yes, I've got
to do this now. I was not in a place
in my life. I was not in a good relationship
to do that. I wasn't like career wise focused on that,
(07:18):
and so then the alternative for me became like, Okay,
well I'll freeze my eggs. I didn't really want to
do that. Like when I look back now, I know
I didn't want to do that. It was very hard
on my body. You know, I'm very sensitive. During the process,
I knew it wasn't going to work. Like when I
was doing it, I knew. I just had this like
knowing about it, and so it was like injecting myself
(07:40):
with all these hormones that were, you know, super harsh.
It made me feel terrible, Like my body still has
probably never felt the same since I did that. Because
I did it twice. But there was something in me
too that was just like, you have to do this,
So I disregarded all the knowing that I had and
like went that way.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Well, I'm sure, I'm sure some of it was external shame,
you know, the shame that you carry because of the
external pressures, whether you were aware of it in that
moment or not. But like everyone else thought you should
have a baby, So why didn't you think you should
have a baby?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So well, and then there's there's so many parts to it.
So like, as a woman, and we talked about this
on Wednesday too, you're kind of taught that that's the
big thing that your body can do.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It's like this creation and it is such a beautiful,
intricate process. Like I also mentioned with her that we
don't talk about the fact that pregnancy and birth goes
well so often is kind of shocking when you really
learn all the things that have to go right, like
it is a miracle. And women's bodies do crazy cool
(08:51):
things that they can life like this and hold the life.
You know, it's wild. And so there's the physical part
of it that makes you go, Okay, well, I must
be like deficient because my body can't do this. And
there was a ton of shame that I had with that.
And I also talk about this like I've always just
(09:11):
worked really hard to get the things that I want,
and so the fact that I couldn't work hard to
do it was wild, Like it was so it's so
you're so powerless in so many ways. Even if I
was taking like taking a step to do something bold
like freeze my eggs, that feels like you're going to be,
you know, taking your power back. But then it wasn't working,
(09:34):
and so it's just like, wait, what I'm injected Now.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
There's a different kind of shame. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, so there's this shame. But then also you have
to really like I had to really quiet my mind
about and also grieve honestly, because I had so much
fear that I was going to look back when I turned,
you know, when I'm in my sixties and stuff and
just wish that I had kids. And the truth is,
there's probably a part of me that will like, there's
(09:59):
a part of me that still can get kind of
sad about it sometimes, and there's a part of me
that knows, wasn't the journey that I was supposed to
go on in this life.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Right, Well, I think it's I think it's you know,
kids and kids, car living in a foreign country. There's
a million things that like sound like it would be.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Nice to have or have done or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I do think we'll all look back and be like, God,
I wish I had lived in a foreign country some
point in my life, or I wish I had a
kid or whatever it is, it got a dog or
a cat. But I think, you know, unless it's like
a complete aching inside of you currently, then the answer
is probably that you don't need those things or you
(10:43):
never really needed those things. And I've definitely had you know,
as a gay man, when I was living in Los Angeles,
I had some friends that were like going down the
adoption path and the surrogate path. You know, California actually
does allow even single gay men to adopt kids because
there's so many kids in the system that without like
(11:04):
going really wide, it's the kids are just going to
flounder in the system. And you know, there's also there
is the government provides assistance for foster families or adoptive
families to help cover for medical and things like that,
because you know, I never really thought that I was
at a place financially where I could take care of
anyone but myself, right, And but I you know, if
(11:27):
I had a noopsie daisy, like straight people, can you
figure it out? So I was trying to ignore that
bug in the back of my mind and did start
to explore, like what would it be like and what
would the possibility be? And then it was more for me,
it was more about like my life's it didn't really
fit in my lifestyle, like everything would have to change
(11:49):
so much, plus being single, like I would have had
to go from a zero from one hundred to the
zero because I wouldn't be able to travel and do
the things and have the same job, especially at my
income level, because I'd have to have care, you know.
And so but it was also like I didn't want
to regret it either, like you know, because I was
getting older and I definitely knew that I did not
(12:10):
want to have I didn't want to be sixty five
years old and have like a senior in high school,
you know. Like but that said, you know, if something
happened to anyone that I know and I needed to
take their child and care for them for the rest
of their life.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I would do it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I wouldn't think twice about it, and I would figure
it out, and you know, feel very like blessed.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
To have that opportunity, but I don't feel like I
need to force it at this point in my life.
The world is overpopulated anyway.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, didn't you read a stat about this about how
there what are the differences between? Because I'm glad we're
having this conversation and the reason I wanted to have
it is because I've had two women reas simply open
up to me about their own kind of journey with this.
And they're in their late thirties, just like I was
when this started happening with me, and they both said
(13:10):
to me, I don't think I want kids. It's never
felt right to me. But all of a sudden, I'm
going into this panic and I was like, oh, I
totally get it. And I think that that time of
a woman's life is very specific to that if you
don't have kids because of the pressures that you get
from society, from doctors, from the option being taken, you know,
from what our bodies are doing aging wise, and I
(13:32):
just want to kind of normalize that there are other
options and talk about my experience now, which is that
I don't have any regrets, and like, honestly, the couple
times where I've thought, because I think I'm going into
PERIMENOPAUSI in my periods a little more irregular, and the
couple times I've thought, oh my god, am I pregnant?
I panic? Now like I've really like accepted the fact
(13:56):
that I don't I'm not going to have kids. And
once you accept it and grieve it and do all
the things, like it would be a lot. There was
to be so much, like you were saying, so much
in my life that would have to change that I
don't want to change now. You don't want to change
on a plane on a whim, and yeah, do the
things I want to do or when I need to
go reset, like being in my house by myself. You know,
(14:19):
like there's things there are benefits too, and we just
don't talk about those. But I feel like it's happening
more than we know.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So what are you, Well, it's actually on the uptick
and I've.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Not having kids, not having kids.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
The percentage of households in America is going up, which
I think, you know, we've seen some of this in
politics too, where they're trying to get people to have babies.
But before I read the statistics, there is a caveat that,
like you know, not having children, it covers multiple things,
like it includes the people that never intend to who
(14:55):
those who like might later, those who have tried and can't.
Maybe some people are delaying, but either way they all
sort of get lumped together in these stats. But among
this is from Axios. Among US adults under fifty who
do not have children, forty seven percent in twenty twenty
three say they were not likely to or not likely
(15:17):
at all to ever have children, and that's up from
thirty seven percent in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
That's ten percent up.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ten percent up in five years. In twenty twenty four,
by Pew Research Center, young adults younger than fifty who
don't have children and are likely to not have them,
fifty seven percent say that the major reason is they
just don't want kids, while thirty six percent site that
they can't afford to raise a kid and that's the
(15:44):
major reason. And then this is a statistic from just
the Census women ages thirty to thirty four in twenty
twenty four, about forty percent were childless which is up
from twenty nine percent ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, I mean go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Women twenty five to twenty nine. Childlessness rose from about
fifty percent in twenty fourteen to sixty three percent in
twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Four Well, yeah, for sure, people are having kids later.
As one thing, it is just kind of wild to
think about. Like my mom was twenty four when she
got pregnant with me, and then I think she turned
twenty five like a month after. I The thought of
having a kid at that age, I was a disaster. Right.
The fact that my parents had me at that age,
(16:30):
like you're still a kid is how we consider it nowadays.
It's like sitting a twenty five year old like this
is some of the artists that I keep working with
that I'm telling you, I'm like, they're babies, they're that age.
That's how what my parents were when they were having me,
Like how were they gonna know how to raise a child?
I mean their children themselves? You know, at wild is wild.
(16:52):
So it definitely is like I think it's positive in
a way that it's moving to later, But the problem
comes in with the fertility these stuff, and I mean
with women, men can have babies. Look at fucking Appacino,
He's like eighty two kids. It's just like, of course, why.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean that to me is like irresponsible.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But as adults we probably know more and like have
more wisdom and financial stability or just stability in your
life in general, relation would get older everything. I mean
like that seems like a positive thing in that way.
The physical part of it, I think is probably a
(17:32):
little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What's interesting too is just as you know, as we
evolve as humans, like we're living longer too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, sure, so we used to have to have kids younger, Yeah,
everything is younger. Yeah, when people are more work driven
now I think than.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
They we're about it used to be more about building
because you needed kids to work on your farm and
tender courses and yeah, you know, do all the things
just to survive.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Right. But then the part about like from twenty eight
I think it was twenty twenty three, the big dip
in people having kids at all. It's like, if you
really think about what's happening in our world, no fucking
wonder I mean, like, would you want to bring a
kid into this chaos that's been our world for the
last couple of years? You know, like if I was
in in the age of considering having a child, I
(18:20):
might wait a minute and be like, let me see
how this thing plays out a little bit. Just because
of what's happening on like a global level, there just
feels like there's so much chaos. I mean, that's just me,
but that dawned on me when you were giving that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Stat It's funny too, because I feel like I am
surrounded by kids in this town. You do, yeah, and
lots of Like I feel like people on my street,
they're all younger parents than me, you know, like raising
their kids.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And the other thing is like at twenty five, like,
how do you afford to have a kid?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh, I know it's expensive.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Kids are not cheap, no, but I guess you know,
your lifestyle shifts since you know your money's not going
towards you traveling on the weekends and like going to
have fun.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
But it is really fucking expensive. I don't know how
people do it.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I really well, I think. Okay, So there's another thing
I was gonna say is like I don't know where
this came from in me, but I've always been very
realistic about what being a parent is, and I don't
know if that's like from observing my parents or just
some sort of knowing that I have. And I think
a lot of people because we do it in a
(19:28):
way we do it in our society where like you said,
girls are giving baby dolls from day one, and we're
just like we kind of create the same thing we
do about love with this baby thing, like this little
fantasy world. Not to say that they're not wonderful, beautiful
experiences with children. I totally believe that and see that,
and it's a beautiful thing to have a child and
(19:50):
be a parent and all of that. But I think
like we have to be realistic too. So there's a
lot of people who I see almost resentful now, are
like ugh, being a parent, you know, because they weren't
realistic about what that experience is and who suffers about that,
the child because like maybe you're not fully able to
show up or whatever. And I've just always been very
(20:12):
realistic about like how my life would need to change
if I did have a child, so that I was
being fair to the child and a present parent and
all that stuff. And then how like my finance is
like where I'm spending my money, Like I wasn't going
to be. You know, I wouldn't be eating out at
the places I go to all the time, or shopping
as much or things like that, like because you got
to say for tuition and you know, like the realities
(20:34):
that are not sexy and they're not fantasy. I have
always had this thing in my brain that thinks through that,
and I think we need to talk about this stuff
so that we are making conscious decisions in our lives
and not just doing things because it's programming and what
we've been taught is the way to have a quote
unquote successful life.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I mean, I think you boil it down to just
like mind you business. You know, that's kind of like
I know, that's, you know, not a very heavy way
of putting it, but it's in the same way that like,
I don't want people putting their expectations of any part of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
My life on me.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Like I want to be able to do what I
want to do, and if that we're having children, like
I would want to do that really well. And I
don't think that I ever have been in a place
where I believed that I could do it really well.
So I was like, then I'm not going to do
it because the consequences are grave if you fuck it up.
(21:35):
And I look, I think the world is a really
it's I look back and I'm like, thank god I
never had a kid, because I.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Wouldn't want I don't want to leave this world to
a child.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I worry about my nieces and what the world's going
to be like and how crazy things are, and even
just think it's going to normalize a bit, but I
mean even just with technology and things like, like, we
can't even imagine what our they'll be struggling with when
they're our age. And when you think how far technology
has come just in our lifetime, Oh gosh, Yeah, it's
(22:09):
just the growth and change and the way that humans interact.
Or he's going to be so different in fifty years
and that's terrifying to me to like leave someone behind
that we'll have to grapple with that. Whereas I do
think fifty years ago when my parents were having kids.
Not that the world was perfect back then, but the
world was a lot more simple. We weren't as connected
(22:31):
to each other constantly, So you know, someone that was
looking to have a child, their worldview was a lot smaller,
Like it was like you thought about your neighborhood and
that was kind of it, and your kid going off
to college maybe one day. But now there's so many
other fears in the world has shifted so drastically that
I would have to believe that that's playing into these
(22:51):
percentages going up.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes, people just can't fathom how to do it or financially.
I just think there's a lot more factor in the
process of it. And there are people saying, hey, I
don't have to have kids. I think back in the
day it was way more. That is definitely what you did,
got married and have kids, you know, and very structured.
(23:14):
Everyone lives in that same box. But I do think
it's interesting just from the last two conversations I have,
and I can only speak from the female perspective obviously,
and the pressure that it is from this lens. And
so for any women listening, like if this is a
debate for you, you have to trust your gut. Like that's
like literally the thing I said to both of those
(23:35):
girls is I was like, you have to listen to
your own body and not to anyone else's voice about this,
not even to my voice. This is very much like
a personal experience, and that's all I want to have
these kind of conversations for is so that we start
treating them that way versus the one size fits all thing,
because that goes across the board, Like I mean, I
want to talk about that in every way, shape and form,
(23:58):
about jobs, about love, but also about kids and what
family looks like. And I think we can redefine that
to be many different things, Like if you were to
have a kid, I mean you would be a dad
for a kid, and then if you had a partner,
they would have another dad, you know, and that's a
different experience. And so there's that perspective. And then you
(24:19):
brought up earlier too like some people, like some game
in are in places like they can't adopt, So what
is that? You know, Like there's a whole different experience.
But for me, it was more about finding my identity
as a woman without doing that, Like who a am
I without that? The truth is same as you said earlier,
(24:40):
Like you know you would be a good parent. I
know I would be a good mom, Like I definitely
know I could do that. And I also think I
use that energy in a lot of different places in
my life currently, so like it's not that the energy
of mothering and nurturing went away in me. It just
goes to different places, and there's so many more places
that we can put that energy versus just with a child.
(25:03):
If if your experience is like mine and you can't
have kids or things like that, so it doesn't make
you deficient. It just means like your life journey is
something different, and take that energy and figure out where
you want to put it.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I wish that we could come up with a way
to end the very early social pressures of having children.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Well, I think we just have to talk about it
like that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean I think this is a good start. But
how do we get rid of like baby dolls and stuff?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But there is animals, yeah, I know, they're fun.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
All the other toys that have gone away because of
political whatever. It's just weird too because it's like I
think we are taking it too far sometimes because it
can be fun as a kid. Like, I don't know
that we have to like go so extreme and get
rid of stuff. I just think we have to offer
the other things too, Like right, here's one way you
could go what feels right to you, that's what that's
(26:09):
how you choose is how do you want your life
to look and we all know inside of us, if
we really get quiet with ourselves, you do know. It's
just do you want to listen to it? And do
you want to trust that?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And do you want other people to know what you want?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well? Yeah, because sometimes that's because really got your grandmother
breathing down your neck for a or your parents breathing
down your neck for your their grandbabies. Well, there can
be so much shame if you're just like like one
of the girls I was talking to was like, I
just you know, they have houses in two places, and
she was talking about when she's in Nashville because it's
(26:44):
the South and she doesn't have as many friends here
and she doesn't like there's not as much for her
to do here. She's like, I find myself feeling this
like pressure of oh, I should we should have kids,
we should do this. And then when she's at their
other place out west, she like, I'm living my life.
I'm doing the things. I'm like so happy and it
never even dawns on me. And I was like, I
(27:06):
think you have your answer. It's just right. It's just
like this odd pressure that we get. So yeah, I
think the shame can get to all of us and
make you start reconsidering your own knowing because you're like, wait,
what's wrong with me? Or not wanting to say out
loud to someone else, Like I think a lot of
times people without kids are deemed selfish, and it's like
(27:28):
you don't know me, you don't actually know anything about
me to ever say that or that, Like we don't
get it, we don't get how hard life is or whatever.
And it's like everyone has different shit, So I can't
take that with parents, Like your life isn't so much
harder than mine. It's different hard there's different hardships. We
all have different things. I've lived in a time with kids,
(27:51):
like I was in a relationship where there were kids involved.
So I'm very aware of what it is. I always
have been, though, I've always been aware of like the
sack vices, the time, the demands, the reality. Honest, it's
a lot, it's a ton. I agree, and that is
what their soul wanted this lifetime. My soul had different
plans for different.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Last time, like.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Kids or something. Yeah, yeah, Like I don't know. Maybe
that's how I know what the reality of parenting is
from a different lifetime, you know, like we just don't know.
But anyway, all that is to say is I want
to normalize the conversation for anyone listening that is feeling
the shame, feeling like who would I be? Will I
(28:39):
look back and regret it, like there are a lot
of emotions with it, and process the emotions. That's really important.
And also make sure you're tuning the most into your
own knowing, your own desires, your own gut about the situation,
and not anyone else's because it is a completely personal experience.
I am extremely happy in my life without kids at
(29:01):
forty three. I feel no shame about it, and I
feel I don't feel less than anymore, Like I just
know that this is what I'm here to do, and
like we're sitting here right now having this conversation. I
feel like this is part of my mothering, Like energy
is people, you know, Like that is part of where
I put that energy. And I don't know that I
(29:22):
would be able to do this podcast if I had kids.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
You would be getting a million questions.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Why is the time?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, I also too, like I feel like it's important
to make the distinction between you know, I feel like
a lot of people think that those who don't have
kids just hate kids.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, you know what I mean kids at all.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
No, I love kids. I love being around kids. I
want to be a kid my whole life. I don't
ever want to have to grow up. But I just
don't think that I would have done, you know, at
least up until this point in my life. I don't
think I would have done a kid of justice being
the parent, even though.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, you're a really good uncle.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I'm a great uncle here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, I'm the exactly everything you just said. You're the
funkal Yeah. Yeah, and that's a perfect dynamic for you.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
For now, it could change.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I could end up with a kid, that surprise kid.
One day. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
God, if you knocked up some girl, I would be
like them.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
The just that was my goal for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Just well, we said our intentions at the beginning of
the month in January.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
You're like, my word of the year is going to
be like impregnate what do they call it? Where? Uh reproduce?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I mean, I like impregnate, pregnate, impregnate because it's so
not you, right, You're just going to impregnate life with
all your pregnate What is Anyway, if you, guys, if
this resonates at all, I know for some of the
women out there listening, this has to resonate. And I
know also it can be such an isolating feeling. So
(30:56):
if you ever want to talk about it, or you
have any thoughts that you want to share with me,
you can always email us at the Edge at velvetsedge
dot com, or you can slide into my DMS on Instagram.
I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm at Chip doors. It's h I P D O
R S C H.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Did you see in your birthday video that I put
that in the couch? If anyone was reading the caption
like why should put all these dashes in his name?
That is why it was supposed to be that. Anyway,
I'm glad you had a good birthday.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I'm glad you could go out because you didn't have
kids and you didn't have to get a babysitter. Set
those perks right there. Right as you guys go into
the weekend and you're living on the edge, I hope
you always remember
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Too A casual bye bye
Happy belated birthday, Chipper, thank you. How was your actual birthday?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It was really good. It was pretty chill. I have
already felt very celebrated. I still have text messages to
respond to the Instagram messages.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yeah so, but no, it was good.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
It was just a regular workday, and then I had
dinner with a couple of friends.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Were you in this office on your my fake office?
If anybody is watching on YouTube, Chip is still stuck
in this fake Zoom office in Camp Rock.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I cannot figure it out. This is also weird.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Look, I just noticed that if I go behind the microphone,
it looks like a point.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, why does your mic disappear into the wall.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I have no idea, because it's not moving.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, that is really bizarre. I don't even know. For
the people listening, I'm sorry, but Chip was just in
some weird alternative universe. It's odd.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I put it for those who didn't hear me bitching
about it. Last week, I put a virtual background on
my Zoom and I cannot get it. And I'm like,
it's driving me crazy because I'm not a dummy and
I can figure these things out, and I'm doing exactly
what I'm supposed to be doing, but it's not working,
and so I'm like stuck with his background until.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's also a funny background for you because it's so
not you, Like, it's a very corporate looking office building
that's beautiful, but just not at all like your life.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Right, not at all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It kind of looks like our offices in Los Angeles
and my coworker, this is kind of what his background
looks like. And I did it as a joke to him,
and now I'm stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
No jokes on me.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's what you get. Maybe he wants mercury retro good
retrograde finishes. You'll be able to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, I hope.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Anyway, this week on the podcast, I had fertility expert
Rachel Swanson on and Chip and I were talking and
I was like, I don't know what we're going to
talk about because the topic is fertility, and I'm just like,
I'm a person who had an unsuccessful fertility journey. You're
a gay man, Like, what are we going to talk about?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, we're clearly the experts.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
On the topic exactly, And so you go, what if
we talk about not having kids? And it was so
so simple that it shook me.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, I mean like like, oh my god, I love
that idea. And I was like, wow, Well.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Because if you really think about it, nobody talks about
not having kids except I will say, Chelsea Handler, maybe
she is really funny about it. She'll make really funny
videos of things that she does as a woman in
her fifties without children, and they're laugh out loud funny,
like she's always like smoking weed at eight am, and
you know, but it's basically like she's like, I'm living
my life. I'm doing whatever I want at all times.
(02:50):
And I kind of just like that she owns it,
which I thought was really good. But but I do
think it's a really important conversation to have because we
kind of have this like one fits all mentality about this,
and it's not discussed that there are other options, and
it's not that other people aren't living different ways or
not having kids, but we just don't talk about it
(03:12):
when there's no children involved. We only talk about it
when there's parenting and children involved. Have you noticed that?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I don't know. We just have this like very boxed
in view, I think, and so obviously on this podcast
we talk often about everyone being on their own specific
journey and different journeys, and that everybody's here for different reasons.
And so I'm like, how have we not talked about
this part of it, like what it looks like to
not have children as an adult. I'm forty three, you
(03:43):
just turn fifty. Either of us have kids, right, So
we actually do know about this topic.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And we do know about this side of the topic.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, And it's funny because I, in my gut, no
I would be a great parent. Wheish she would be
a great parent, and I've wanted to be, but I
never it was never a be all end all for me.
Like my sister, all she ever wanted to be was
a mom, you know, like is she wanted to be
a mom so bad? And you know, as a gay
(04:13):
man like I, there is no accidents for me to
end up with a kid. My sister's first kid was
an oopsie date. Like she you know, got pregnant very
early accidentally, and because she was I think thirty six,
she her first kid. She had sort of late in life,
and she was all of her friends had kids at
(04:34):
that point, and she was like, I'm keeping this baby,
you know, whether we stay together or not. So I
don't think it was the accident that she made it
out to be. I think it was probably pretty calculated.
But I bring that up because there are you know,
there are some I mean, in fact, I was an
accidental pregnancy. My parents wanted to have another kid, but
they weren't planning to have one that early. So but
(04:55):
that piece of the equation does not exist in my world.
So there was never a chance that I could accidentally have.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
A kid except for oh, I see what you're saying, college, right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And thank god I didn't at that point. Life would
be very different if.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Your girlfriend from outback steakhouse i'd gotten knocked up. Yeah,
oh my god. Well it's interesting because I told you that,
you know, like I was in a similar way. I
was never the young girl that dreamed of being a mother.
Like I definitely had those friends who were like, I
want to get married and I want to get have
a kid, and like planned it out. I think I
(05:32):
started thinking that I wanted that because I'm from the
Deep South, like in Louisiana, that's what everyone does, you know,
And I just kept feeling like in my life, I'm
not ready yet, but I will want to and I
will get there and whatever. And so then I got
into my late thirties and we talked about this on
the podcast Wednesday. But when you when you turn thirty five,
(05:52):
like as a girl, you go to the Guano every
year for your annual you know, and when you turn
thirty five. I just remember my kind of like sitting
down on her stool and she like slides in front
of me, and she it was this very like tense
kind of feeling in the room, and she was like,
have you thought about if you want to have children
or not? And I was like, oh, yeah, you know,
maybe one day, whenever the time's right. And she was like, well,
(06:15):
at this stage where you are in life right now,
at thirty five, if you got pregnant, it would be
considered high risk because it would be a geriatric pregnancy.
I'm like, geriatric. Yeah, they need to rethink it, because
it's just like geriatric I associate with like being way
later in life when I need to wear adult diapers
(06:37):
and like, you know, I can't function, Yes, but like
thirty five is still very young, and so it just
doesn't really dawn on you. But I swear to God,
it's something about like the second someone tells you might
not have the option anymore. The panic sets in, you know,
and you probably had a different experience with this because
(06:57):
you might have had to grapple with this like way
earlier in life than I did. But at that point
I was like, wait, what, like it might be taken
off the table, and then all of a sudden, you
just have this urgency of like, Okay, yes, I've got
to do this now. I was not in a place
in my life. I was not in a good relationship
to do that. I wasn't like career wise focused on that,
(07:18):
and so then the alternative for me became like, Okay,
well I'll freeze my eggs. I didn't really want to
do that. Like when I look back now, I know
I didn't want to do that. It was very hard
on my body. You know, I'm very sensitive. During the process,
I knew it wasn't going to work. Like when I
was doing it, I knew. I just had this like
knowing about it, and so it was like injecting myself
(07:40):
with all these hormones that were, you know, super harsh.
It made me feel terrible, Like my body still has
probably never felt the same since I did that. Because
I did it twice. But there was something in me
too that was just like, you have to do this,
So I disregarded all the knowing that I had and
like went that way.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Well, I'm sure, I'm sure some of it was external shame,
you know, the shame that you carry because of the
external pressures, whether you were aware of it in that
moment or not. But like everyone else thought you should
have a baby, So why didn't you think you should
have a baby?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So well, and then there's there's so many parts to it.
So like, as a woman, and we talked about this
on Wednesday too, you're kind of taught that that's the
big thing that your body can do.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It's like this creation and it is such a beautiful,
intricate process. Like I also mentioned with her that we
don't talk about the fact that pregnancy and birth goes
well so often is kind of shocking when you really
learn all the things that have to go right, like
it is a miracle. And women's bodies do crazy cool
(08:51):
things that they can life like this and hold the life.
You know, it's wild. And so there's the physical part
of it that makes you go, Okay, well, I must
be like deficient because my body can't do this. And
there was a ton of shame that I had with that.
And I also talk about this like I've always just
(09:11):
worked really hard to get the things that I want,
and so the fact that I couldn't work hard to
do it was wild, Like it was so it's so
you're so powerless in so many ways. Even if I
was taking like taking a step to do something bold
like freeze my eggs, that feels like you're going to be,
you know, taking your power back. But then it wasn't working,
(09:34):
and so it's just like, wait, what I'm injected Now.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
There's a different kind of shame. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, so there's this shame. But then also you have
to really like I had to really quiet my mind
about and also grieve honestly, because I had so much
fear that I was going to look back when I turned,
you know, when I'm in my sixties and stuff and
just wish that I had kids. And the truth is,
there's probably a part of me that will like, there's
(09:59):
a part of me that still can get kind of
sad about it sometimes, and there's a part of me
that knows, wasn't the journey that I was supposed to
go on in this life.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Right, Well, I think it's I think it's you know,
kids and kids, car living in a foreign country. There's
a million things that like sound like it would be.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Nice to have or have done or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I do think we'll all look back and be like, God,
I wish I had lived in a foreign country some
point in my life, or I wish I had a
kid or whatever it is, it got a dog or
a cat. But I think, you know, unless it's like
a complete aching inside of you currently, then the answer
is probably that you don't need those things or you
(10:43):
never really needed those things. And I've definitely had you know,
as a gay man, when I was living in Los Angeles,
I had some friends that were like going down the
adoption path and the surrogate path. You know, California actually
does allow even single gay men to adopt kids because
there's so many kids in the system that without like
(11:04):
going really wide, it's the kids are just going to
flounder in the system. And you know, there's also there
is the government provides assistance for foster families or adoptive
families to help cover for medical and things like that,
because you know, I never really thought that I was
at a place financially where I could take care of
anyone but myself, right, And but I you know, if
(11:27):
I had a noopsie daisy, like straight people, can you
figure it out? So I was trying to ignore that
bug in the back of my mind and did start
to explore, like what would it be like and what
would the possibility be? And then it was more for me,
it was more about like my life's it didn't really
fit in my lifestyle, like everything would have to change
(11:49):
so much, plus being single, like I would have had
to go from a zero from one hundred to the
zero because I wouldn't be able to travel and do
the things and have the same job, especially at my
income level, because I'd have to have care, you know.
And so but it was also like I didn't want
to regret it either, like you know, because I was
getting older and I definitely knew that I did not
(12:10):
want to have I didn't want to be sixty five
years old and have like a senior in high school,
you know. Like but that said, you know, if something
happened to anyone that I know and I needed to
take their child and care for them for the rest
of their life.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I would do it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I wouldn't think twice about it, and I would figure
it out, and you know, feel very like blessed.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
To have that opportunity, but I don't feel like I
need to force it at this point in my life.
The world is overpopulated anyway.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, didn't you read a stat about this about how
there what are the differences between? Because I'm glad we're
having this conversation and the reason I wanted to have
it is because I've had two women reas simply open
up to me about their own kind of journey with this.
And they're in their late thirties, just like I was
when this started happening with me, and they both said
(13:10):
to me, I don't think I want kids. It's never
felt right to me. But all of a sudden, I'm
going into this panic and I was like, oh, I
totally get it. And I think that that time of
a woman's life is very specific to that if you
don't have kids because of the pressures that you get
from society, from doctors, from the option being taken, you know,
from what our bodies are doing aging wise, and I
(13:32):
just want to kind of normalize that there are other
options and talk about my experience now, which is that
I don't have any regrets, and like, honestly, the couple
times where I've thought, because I think I'm going into
PERIMENOPAUSI in my periods a little more irregular, and the
couple times I've thought, oh my god, am I pregnant?
I panic? Now like I've really like accepted the fact
(13:56):
that I don't I'm not going to have kids. And
once you accept it and grieve it and do all
the things, like it would be a lot. There was
to be so much, like you were saying, so much
in my life that would have to change that I
don't want to change now. You don't want to change
on a plane on a whim, and yeah, do the
things I want to do or when I need to
go reset, like being in my house by myself. You know,
(14:19):
like there's things there are benefits too, and we just
don't talk about those. But I feel like it's happening
more than we know.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So what are you, Well, it's actually on the uptick
and I've.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Not having kids, not having kids.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
The percentage of households in America is going up, which
I think, you know, we've seen some of this in
politics too, where they're trying to get people to have babies.
But before I read the statistics, there is a caveat that,
like you know, not having children, it covers multiple things,
like it includes the people that never intend to who
(14:55):
those who like might later, those who have tried and can't.
Maybe some people are delaying, but either way they all
sort of get lumped together in these stats. But among
this is from Axios. Among US adults under fifty who
do not have children, forty seven percent in twenty twenty
three say they were not likely to or not likely
(15:17):
at all to ever have children, and that's up from
thirty seven percent in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
That's ten percent up.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ten percent up in five years. In twenty twenty four,
by Pew Research Center, young adults younger than fifty who
don't have children and are likely to not have them,
fifty seven percent say that the major reason is they
just don't want kids, while thirty six percent site that
they can't afford to raise a kid and that's the
(15:44):
major reason. And then this is a statistic from just
the Census women ages thirty to thirty four in twenty
twenty four, about forty percent were childless which is up
from twenty nine percent ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, I mean go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Women twenty five to twenty nine. Childlessness rose from about
fifty percent in twenty fourteen to sixty three percent in
twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Four Well, yeah, for sure, people are having kids later.
As one thing, it is just kind of wild to
think about. Like my mom was twenty four when she
got pregnant with me, and then I think she turned
twenty five like a month after. I The thought of
having a kid at that age, I was a disaster. Right.
The fact that my parents had me at that age,
(16:30):
like you're still a kid is how we consider it nowadays.
It's like sitting a twenty five year old like this
is some of the artists that I keep working with
that I'm telling you, I'm like, they're babies, they're that age.
That's how what my parents were when they were having me,
Like how were they gonna know how to raise a child?
I mean their children themselves? You know, at wild is wild.
(16:52):
So it definitely is like I think it's positive in
a way that it's moving to later, But the problem
comes in with the fertility these stuff, and I mean
with women, men can have babies. Look at fucking Appacino,
He's like eighty two kids. It's just like, of course, why.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean that to me is like irresponsible.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But as adults we probably know more and like have
more wisdom and financial stability or just stability in your
life in general, relation would get older everything. I mean
like that seems like a positive thing in that way.
The physical part of it, I think is probably a
(17:32):
little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What's interesting too is just as you know, as we
evolve as humans, like we're living longer too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, sure, so we used to have to have kids younger, Yeah,
everything is younger. Yeah, when people are more work driven
now I think than.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
They we're about it used to be more about building
because you needed kids to work on your farm and
tender courses and yeah, you know, do all the things
just to survive.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Right. But then the part about like from twenty eight
I think it was twenty twenty three, the big dip
in people having kids at all. It's like, if you
really think about what's happening in our world, no fucking
wonder I mean, like, would you want to bring a
kid into this chaos that's been our world for the
last couple of years? You know, like if I was
in in the age of considering having a child, I
(18:20):
might wait a minute and be like, let me see
how this thing plays out a little bit. Just because
of what's happening on like a global level, there just
feels like there's so much chaos. I mean, that's just me,
but that dawned on me when you were giving that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Stat It's funny too, because I feel like I am
surrounded by kids in this town. You do, yeah, and
lots of Like I feel like people on my street,
they're all younger parents than me, you know, like raising
their kids.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And the other thing is like at twenty five, like,
how do you afford to have a kid?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh, I know it's expensive.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Kids are not cheap, no, but I guess you know,
your lifestyle shifts since you know your money's not going
towards you traveling on the weekends and like going to
have fun.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
But it is really fucking expensive. I don't know how
people do it.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I really well, I think. Okay, So there's another thing
I was gonna say is like I don't know where
this came from in me, but I've always been very
realistic about what being a parent is, and I don't
know if that's like from observing my parents or just
some sort of knowing that I have. And I think
a lot of people because we do it in a
(19:28):
way we do it in our society where like you said,
girls are giving baby dolls from day one, and we're
just like we kind of create the same thing we
do about love with this baby thing, like this little
fantasy world. Not to say that they're not wonderful, beautiful
experiences with children. I totally believe that and see that,
and it's a beautiful thing to have a child and
(19:50):
be a parent and all of that. But I think
like we have to be realistic too. So there's a
lot of people who I see almost resentful now, are
like ugh, being a parent, you know, because they weren't
realistic about what that experience is and who suffers about that,
the child because like maybe you're not fully able to
show up or whatever. And I've just always been very
(20:12):
realistic about like how my life would need to change
if I did have a child, so that I was
being fair to the child and a present parent and
all that stuff. And then how like my finance is
like where I'm spending my money, Like I wasn't going
to be. You know, I wouldn't be eating out at
the places I go to all the time, or shopping
as much or things like that, like because you got
to say for tuition and you know, like the realities
(20:34):
that are not sexy and they're not fantasy. I have
always had this thing in my brain that thinks through that,
and I think we need to talk about this stuff
so that we are making conscious decisions in our lives
and not just doing things because it's programming and what
we've been taught is the way to have a quote
unquote successful life.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I mean, I think you boil it down to just
like mind you business. You know, that's kind of like
I know, that's, you know, not a very heavy way
of putting it, but it's in the same way that like,
I don't want people putting their expectations of any part of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
My life on me.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Like I want to be able to do what I
want to do, and if that we're having children, like
I would want to do that really well. And I
don't think that I ever have been in a place
where I believed that I could do it really well.
So I was like, then I'm not going to do
it because the consequences are grave if you fuck it up.
(21:35):
And I look, I think the world is a really
it's I look back and I'm like, thank god I
never had a kid, because I.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Wouldn't want I don't want to leave this world to
a child.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I worry about my nieces and what the world's going
to be like and how crazy things are, and even
just think it's going to normalize a bit, but I
mean even just with technology and things like, like, we
can't even imagine what our they'll be struggling with when
they're our age. And when you think how far technology
has come just in our lifetime, Oh gosh, Yeah, it's
(22:09):
just the growth and change and the way that humans interact.
Or he's going to be so different in fifty years
and that's terrifying to me to like leave someone behind
that we'll have to grapple with that. Whereas I do
think fifty years ago when my parents were having kids.
Not that the world was perfect back then, but the
world was a lot more simple. We weren't as connected
(22:31):
to each other constantly, So you know, someone that was
looking to have a child, their worldview was a lot smaller,
Like it was like you thought about your neighborhood and
that was kind of it, and your kid going off
to college maybe one day. But now there's so many
other fears in the world has shifted so drastically that
I would have to believe that that's playing into these
(22:51):
percentages going up.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes, people just can't fathom how to do it or financially.
I just think there's a lot more factor in the
process of it. And there are people saying, hey, I
don't have to have kids. I think back in the
day it was way more. That is definitely what you did,
got married and have kids, you know, and very structured.
(23:14):
Everyone lives in that same box. But I do think
it's interesting just from the last two conversations I have,
and I can only speak from the female perspective obviously,
and the pressure that it is from this lens. And
so for any women listening, like if this is a
debate for you, you have to trust your gut. Like that's
like literally the thing I said to both of those
(23:35):
girls is I was like, you have to listen to
your own body and not to anyone else's voice about this,
not even to my voice. This is very much like
a personal experience, and that's all I want to have
these kind of conversations for is so that we start
treating them that way versus the one size fits all thing,
because that goes across the board, Like I mean, I
want to talk about that in every way, shape and form,
(23:58):
about jobs, about love, but also about kids and what
family looks like. And I think we can redefine that
to be many different things, Like if you were to
have a kid, I mean you would be a dad
for a kid, and then if you had a partner,
they would have another dad, you know, and that's a
different experience. And so there's that perspective. And then you
(24:19):
brought up earlier too like some people, like some game
in are in places like they can't adopt, So what
is that? You know, Like there's a whole different experience.
But for me, it was more about finding my identity
as a woman without doing that, Like who a am
I without that? The truth is same as you said earlier,
(24:40):
Like you know you would be a good parent. I
know I would be a good mom, Like I definitely
know I could do that. And I also think I
use that energy in a lot of different places in
my life currently, so like it's not that the energy
of mothering and nurturing went away in me. It just
goes to different places, and there's so many more places
that we can put that energy versus just with a child.
(25:03):
If if your experience is like mine and you can't
have kids or things like that, so it doesn't make
you deficient. It just means like your life journey is
something different, and take that energy and figure out where
you want to put it.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I wish that we could come up with a way
to end the very early social pressures of having children.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Well, I think we just have to talk about it
like that.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean I think this is a good start. But
how do we get rid of like baby dolls and stuff?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But there is animals, yeah, I know, they're fun.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
All the other toys that have gone away because of
political whatever. It's just weird too because it's like I
think we are taking it too far sometimes because it
can be fun as a kid. Like, I don't know
that we have to like go so extreme and get
rid of stuff. I just think we have to offer
the other things too, Like right, here's one way you
could go what feels right to you, that's what that's
(26:09):
how you choose is how do you want your life
to look and we all know inside of us, if
we really get quiet with ourselves, you do know. It's
just do you want to listen to it? And do
you want to trust that?
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And do you want other people to know what you want?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well? Yeah, because sometimes that's because really got your grandmother
breathing down your neck for a or your parents breathing
down your neck for your their grandbabies. Well, there can
be so much shame if you're just like like one
of the girls I was talking to was like, I
just you know, they have houses in two places, and
she was talking about when she's in Nashville because it's
(26:44):
the South and she doesn't have as many friends here
and she doesn't like there's not as much for her
to do here. She's like, I find myself feeling this
like pressure of oh, I should we should have kids,
we should do this. And then when she's at their
other place out west, she like, I'm living my life.
I'm doing the things. I'm like so happy and it
never even dawns on me. And I was like, I
(27:06):
think you have your answer. It's just right. It's just
like this odd pressure that we get. So yeah, I
think the shame can get to all of us and
make you start reconsidering your own knowing because you're like, wait,
what's wrong with me? Or not wanting to say out
loud to someone else, Like I think a lot of
times people without kids are deemed selfish, and it's like
(27:28):
you don't know me, you don't actually know anything about
me to ever say that or that, Like we don't
get it, we don't get how hard life is or whatever.
And it's like everyone has different shit, So I can't
take that with parents, Like your life isn't so much
harder than mine. It's different hard there's different hardships. We
all have different things. I've lived in a time with kids,
(27:51):
like I was in a relationship where there were kids involved.
So I'm very aware of what it is. I always
have been, though, I've always been aware of like the
sack vices, the time, the demands, the reality. Honest, it's
a lot, it's a ton. I agree, and that is
what their soul wanted this lifetime. My soul had different
plans for different.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Last time, like.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Kids or something. Yeah, yeah, Like I don't know. Maybe
that's how I know what the reality of parenting is
from a different lifetime, you know, like we just don't know.
But anyway, all that is to say is I want
to normalize the conversation for anyone listening that is feeling
the shame, feeling like who would I be? Will I
(28:39):
look back and regret it, like there are a lot
of emotions with it, and process the emotions. That's really important.
And also make sure you're tuning the most into your
own knowing, your own desires, your own gut about the situation,
and not anyone else's because it is a completely personal experience.
I am extremely happy in my life without kids at
(29:01):
forty three. I feel no shame about it, and I
feel I don't feel less than anymore, Like I just
know that this is what I'm here to do, and
like we're sitting here right now having this conversation. I
feel like this is part of my mothering, Like energy
is people, you know, Like that is part of where
I put that energy. And I don't know that I
(29:22):
would be able to do this podcast if I had kids.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
You would be getting a million questions.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Why is the time?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, I also too, like I feel like it's important
to make the distinction between you know, I feel like
a lot of people think that those who don't have
kids just hate kids.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, you know what I mean kids at all.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
No, I love kids. I love being around kids. I
want to be a kid my whole life. I don't
ever want to have to grow up. But I just
don't think that I would have done, you know, at
least up until this point in my life. I don't
think I would have done a kid of justice being
the parent, even though.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, you're a really good uncle.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I'm a great uncle here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, I'm the exactly everything you just said. You're the
funkal Yeah. Yeah, and that's a perfect dynamic for you.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
For now, it could change.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I could end up with a kid, that surprise kid.
One day. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
God, if you knocked up some girl, I would be
like them.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
The just that was my goal for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Just well, we said our intentions at the beginning of
the month in January.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
You're like, my word of the year is going to
be like impregnate what do they call it? Where? Uh reproduce?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I mean, I like impregnate, pregnate, impregnate because it's so
not you, right, You're just going to impregnate life with
all your pregnate What is Anyway, if you, guys, if
this resonates at all, I know for some of the
women out there listening, this has to resonate. And I
know also it can be such an isolating feeling. So
(30:56):
if you ever want to talk about it, or you
have any thoughts that you want to share with me,
you can always email us at the Edge at velvetsedge
dot com, or you can slide into my DMS on Instagram.
I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm at Chip doors. It's h I P D O
R S C H.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Did you see in your birthday video that I put
that in the couch? If anyone was reading the caption
like why should put all these dashes in his name?
That is why it was supposed to be that. Anyway,
I'm glad you had a good birthday.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I'm glad you could go out because you didn't have
kids and you didn't have to get a babysitter. Set
those perks right there. Right as you guys go into
the weekend and you're living on the edge, I hope
you always remember
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Too A casual bye bye
Host
Kelly Henderson
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